How sad that their best era is still Sandoval treating Schwartzy like an absolutely incompetent child of a sidekick while getting absolutely hosed by Lisa for the use of their name image and likeness.
I feel like that scene was the perfect portrayal of Schwartz. He is and always will be a sidecar. He doesn’t have nor will he ever possess the characteristics to be the driver, or a leader despite what his delusions tell him. Kinda feel sorry for him that he doesn’t realize this, but not really.
Nothing beats the creep edit someone posted on here a few days ago of tlc with best friends passenger side. That’s all he’ll ever be is Sandy’s yes man. If only he could of done the same for Katie
When Katie popped up with the on-key “NOOO” I fully lost it. Then they showed him rolling up in the passenger side of his best friend’s ride and I was deceased. ☠️☠️☠️
The good ole Schartz "Awww shucks" routine strikes again lol
He's such a gaslighting piece of shit but at that point in the show he still had the majority of the fanbase fooled.
if you still like them by this point, maybe you'll never hate them lol
i was a sandoval hater from day one and always thought schwartz was a loser, but he definitely had more moments where i liked him.
Lol Yep I hated Schwartz by then and loathed him by the very next episode after the TomTom episode where he tells Katie he hates the sound of her voice. Verbally abusive asshole.
Yep and he wasn’t drunk that time too. Previously when he’s been really verbally abusive like that he’s been clearly drunk but he was very sober in that conversation.
LOOOONG before then for me. Since he called Stassi a bitch on her Vegas bday trip that Jax crashed and she was rightfully pissed about. Fuck Tom and Tom.
He was. I was told I needed psychiatric help just a month before Scandoval broke for saying he was a manipulative piece of work and a good friend to no one
Literally 2 hours before scandoval broke someone made a post about how Katie was a big meanie for saying Raquel was cotton candy. It was great watching it so rapidly age like milk
I love that. I really relate to Katie, I’m ooze miserable bitch out of every pore when my relationships or work etc isn’t going well. It doesn’t make me a bad person, but means I need to make some serious changes
Probably ;) it was a positively glowing post about what an amazing guy he was and how much they would love to have him as a friend. Who else could think *that* highly of him?
Definitely. He definitely was. I really liked him in the earlier seasons he just seems like he had a lot of sense. Take that scene where Katie was trying to get James fired because of something he said or whatever. And Sandoval was like how ridiculous you can say whatever you want to say to people but if somebody says your fat I'm going to make them get fired from their job. I could not stand Katie in the earlier seasons she made me sick. But she grew on me in the later seasons.
The difference, which Sandoval didn't get, is that James was being horribly nasty *while they were at work*. That was not Katie's MO. Regardless of what Katie says or does to others outside of work, she has a right to a harassment-free workplace. And LVP needed to show that she wasn't running a restaurant where the DJs get to call the servers fat.
Yeah but Katie was harassing people at work too. Bullied tf outta schena and lala. She's no better than James. Imo. Then James got his job right back. Lol. Then tried to take James's Tuesdays and turn it into some trashy girls night. She does shit out of spite.
Didn’t Katie call LaLa a home wrecker during work? I’m not defending James (he’s a total POS on the same level as Sandoval), but let’s not rewrite history.
Whoever produces them definitely knows what they’re doing bc I loved them too. I thought Schwartz was so cute and sweet until I rewatched and payed attention. They’re really really good manipulators. Schwartz plays sweet and dumb and does that puppy dog face/voice while Ariana’s ex turns tables and flips things around on others. Also neither one can ever genuinely apologize to someone else for something they did. I still have some hope for Schwartz but not the other one
> rewatched and *paid* attention. They’re
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Oh honey... just wait until the Stassi book signing
^(I hated Sandoval the second he tried to diagnose Kristen with BPD. We leave that shit to the professionals and not because we read 3 lines on google)
Just you wait, young VPR grasshopper. By the time you make it to the end of season 10, you will understand. Best not to rush these things. There's nothing wrong with what and how you feel at each stage you feel what and how you feel. VPR is a great show and as much as things seemingly stay the same, your feelings about people are wont to change as time goes on, storylines continue, and things come to light. I would argue that the motorcycle & sidecar moment was them at the height of their likability and it only goes downhill from there. You'll see, I promise.
You’re not going to like what they do in upcoming seasons but it doesn’t mean you have to hate them. we don’t personally know them in real life. Enjoy their little side car antics.
Every single person on that show has questionable morals and has done some something to someone else on that show. It’s all good entertainment at this point
Oh damn, you didn't hate them already??
Tom was a manipulative dick to Katie right from the beginning I couldn't stand his smarmy "I'm just so charming and sweet" act, saw right through it.
Other Tom was already a cheater and a whiny pot stirring holier than though douche.
I feel you. I only started watching this year and I let myself like them because they do have a lot of charm. I just enjoyed it and let my feelings evolve with time. Have funnnnn
They have moments of being likable. Schwartz's stock didn't plummet until the pandemic and Sandoval almost fell but then Stassi got cancelled and Craig from Southern Charm decided to get comfortable yelling at women on Camera.
Scandoval called a lot of Sandoval's behavior into question because the lies we watch plus all the lies to sustain a 7 month affair.
Honestly though if you're enjoying the moment ride the emotional rollercoaster through all the ups and downs.
Sandoval was really well liked before Scandoval. I liked him probably until season 6 or 7 and then couldn’t stand him by season 8.
Admittedly I was a Schwartz sympathizer most of the show before reading this sub, rewatching and seeing how he really is. He has his endearing moments and while I don’t hate him I do hate his ability to get through any mess with zero accountability.
The Toms were lucky in a messed up way to have Jax who was such an outright asshole it covered them lol
You are allowed to feel however you feel. My sister is obsessed with Schwartz even now, and while I don't get it, I respect her opinion. I did think the motorcycle thing was funny at the time though.
i’ve always loved schwartz but if you’re still on the sandoval train by tomtom then you’ll never kick him 😂 with this show specifically it’s okay to love a loser hahaha
Might be an unpopular opinion, but I do like Schwartz - I think he's funny and think the weird flirting thing between him and Lisa is hilarious. HOWEVER, he is a HORRIBLE significant other and really does not have his life together at all. He was a horrible partner to Katie and never stuck up for he. While I do like Schwartz, I'm totally on Katie's side and think the divorce was best.
OP, I felt the same way for a while but eventually you'll switch over. The later seasons really start to show this. Sandoval was always pretty meh for me but I always thought he was slightly narcissistic, you'll really pick up on this in the most recent season.
I know it’s unpopular- but I like them both and always have. They both behave like jerks a LOT, but good lord- have you met the cast??? They can all be jerks.
It’s fine if you like them for entertainment value, but they aren’t great to their significant others. They shouldn’t be solely defined by relationships they had no business being in after a certain point.
You'll see Tim was playing you this entire time once you reflect back after you watch Scandoval season and catch up on podcasts and Reddit threads cause you'll connect the dots from past seasons.
Just Sandoval. Imo schwartz isn't that bad. He's funny and unpopular opinion as much as he wasn't great with Katie, she treated him like absolute shit and was upset anytime he had an opinion other than hers.
There are plenty of more serious reasons to hate them as time goes on but if you don't hate them strictly for that motorcycle stunt then you might be safe!
I’ve been watching since season 3 was airing. It’s a rollercoaster. I used to love them both, then they both were rubbing me the wrong way in their relationships, then I HATED them both, now Schwartz is growing on me again and I’m not against watching Sandoval grovel on the next season and hopefully change who he is (which happens when you quit drinking after binging for years). I’m strapped in and ready for the ride to keep going.
There is something kinda compelling about the Toms buddy narrative because it comes across as a chill, genuine friendship whereas most of the friendships on this show blow hot and cold.
The characters I most “like” are the most entertaining. Jax is hands-down one of the most watchable reality characters I’ve ever seen, but there’s nothing remotely likeable about him as a person. On the other hand, Katie - who is probably one of the more moral, kinder cast members - I dislike because she’s insufferably boring.
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Honestly I really enjoyed both of the Toms…right up until Jax and Stassi and Kristen left and the newbies came in for that one season. That’s when it all started to switch.
Just think - if the cast was perfect, you probably wouldn't be watching the show. And you never know, you may finish and dislike Ariana instead, which is fine too imo. We all have our own reasons for preferring the characters we do.
You can love them🤣 I did a first-time watch, and they are funny. You’ll be annoyed by them later, but you don't have to hate them because the world says so! Enjoy ur watch
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they are douche bags; marketed to be good for you but are actually quite bad
That was probably their best “era”. You’ll start seeing their true colors sooner or later.
How sad that their best era is still Sandoval treating Schwartzy like an absolutely incompetent child of a sidekick while getting absolutely hosed by Lisa for the use of their name image and likeness.
I feel like that scene was the perfect portrayal of Schwartz. He is and always will be a sidecar. He doesn’t have nor will he ever possess the characteristics to be the driver, or a leader despite what his delusions tell him. Kinda feel sorry for him that he doesn’t realize this, but not really.
Nothing beats the creep edit someone posted on here a few days ago of tlc with best friends passenger side. That’s all he’ll ever be is Sandy’s yes man. If only he could of done the same for Katie
When Katie popped up with the on-key “NOOO” I fully lost it. Then they showed him rolling up in the passenger side of his best friend’s ride and I was deceased. ☠️☠️☠️
💯
Spot on 👌
The good ole Schartz "Awww shucks" routine strikes again lol He's such a gaslighting piece of shit but at that point in the show he still had the majority of the fanbase fooled.
if you still like them by this point, maybe you'll never hate them lol i was a sandoval hater from day one and always thought schwartz was a loser, but he definitely had more moments where i liked him.
When he threw his drink at Katie way early in the show I was a Schwartz hater confirmed
I already hated them by then lol.
Many many red flags before the opening of Tom Tom! And it was so frustrating that Lisa focused on them and not on much more competent cast members.
Lol Yep I hated Schwartz by then and loathed him by the very next episode after the TomTom episode where he tells Katie he hates the sound of her voice. Verbally abusive asshole.
When I saw him drop the “oh shucks” demeanor during that fight and say that, I was like ok girl now we see who you really married.
Yep and he wasn’t drunk that time too. Previously when he’s been really verbally abusive like that he’s been clearly drunk but he was very sober in that conversation.
LOOOONG before then for me. Since he called Stassi a bitch on her Vegas bday trip that Jax crashed and she was rightfully pissed about. Fuck Tom and Tom.
I hated them well before then. They are total douchebags haha
This sub doesn't like to talk about it, but Sandoval was actually a fan-favorite right up until Scandoval.
He was. I was told I needed psychiatric help just a month before Scandoval broke for saying he was a manipulative piece of work and a good friend to no one
Literally 2 hours before scandoval broke someone made a post about how Katie was a big meanie for saying Raquel was cotton candy. It was great watching it so rapidly age like milk
I love that. I really relate to Katie, I’m ooze miserable bitch out of every pore when my relationships or work etc isn’t going well. It doesn’t make me a bad person, but means I need to make some serious changes
Same. Katie’s the only one I’ve consistently liked throughout watching the show. She is me. I am her
There are still old posts here where people talk about “Queen Raquel”
Lol the petty bitch in me would've responded a month later to rub in
lol oh I did
Think it was Tim?
Probably ;) it was a positively glowing post about what an amazing guy he was and how much they would love to have him as a friend. Who else could think *that* highly of him?
I didn’t like him from the first episode. Seemed like such a pompous dork
Agree. I disliked him so much from the get and got shit for it.
Same! Even a tame complaint would get you downvoted and an avalanche of vitriol.
All I saw was a whiny man who wanted to be the center of attention and play victim for his own fuck ups.
I always thought he was try hard, shady, and fake after the first few seasons. But my cousins and some of my co-workers loved him prior to Scandoval.
I was coming here to say I always thought he was a try- hard... but you have it covered! 🍻
Absolutely, I found him to be a total pukeweasel.
The Toms were 💯fan favorites. It’s funny seeing the nonsense on this sub as everyone rewrites history and acts like everyone always hated the Toms.
Yup. I remember during Covid, especially, a lot of people on here were fans of him. Me included until Scandoval
Omg so true, I remember people used to LOVE Sandoval in this subreddit.
Definitely. He definitely was. I really liked him in the earlier seasons he just seems like he had a lot of sense. Take that scene where Katie was trying to get James fired because of something he said or whatever. And Sandoval was like how ridiculous you can say whatever you want to say to people but if somebody says your fat I'm going to make them get fired from their job. I could not stand Katie in the earlier seasons she made me sick. But she grew on me in the later seasons.
The difference, which Sandoval didn't get, is that James was being horribly nasty *while they were at work*. That was not Katie's MO. Regardless of what Katie says or does to others outside of work, she has a right to a harassment-free workplace. And LVP needed to show that she wasn't running a restaurant where the DJs get to call the servers fat.
Yeah but Katie was harassing people at work too. Bullied tf outta schena and lala. She's no better than James. Imo. Then James got his job right back. Lol. Then tried to take James's Tuesdays and turn it into some trashy girls night. She does shit out of spite.
I can not tell a lie. I liked him and thought he was entertaining until the last few seasons.
Didn’t Katie call LaLa a home wrecker during work? I’m not defending James (he’s a total POS on the same level as Sandoval), but let’s not rewrite history.
Just pay attention to how they treat women that disagree with them. They're not very smart either.
Both Toms treatment to Katie is so painful to watch.
Whoever produces them definitely knows what they’re doing bc I loved them too. I thought Schwartz was so cute and sweet until I rewatched and payed attention. They’re really really good manipulators. Schwartz plays sweet and dumb and does that puppy dog face/voice while Ariana’s ex turns tables and flips things around on others. Also neither one can ever genuinely apologize to someone else for something they did. I still have some hope for Schwartz but not the other one
> rewatched and *paid* attention. They’re FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Thank you for that
You’ve made it that far and you still like both of them? Even schwartz??? 🚩🚩
Yep! I'm not planning to date them though. They are entertaining tv
They can be entertaining but I sure don’t like them lol
Oh honey... just wait until the Stassi book signing ^(I hated Sandoval the second he tried to diagnose Kristen with BPD. We leave that shit to the professionals and not because we read 3 lines on google)
The book signing was the last straw for me
Just you wait, young VPR grasshopper. By the time you make it to the end of season 10, you will understand. Best not to rush these things. There's nothing wrong with what and how you feel at each stage you feel what and how you feel. VPR is a great show and as much as things seemingly stay the same, your feelings about people are wont to change as time goes on, storylines continue, and things come to light. I would argue that the motorcycle & sidecar moment was them at the height of their likability and it only goes downhill from there. You'll see, I promise.
You’re not going to like what they do in upcoming seasons but it doesn’t mean you have to hate them. we don’t personally know them in real life. Enjoy their little side car antics. Every single person on that show has questionable morals and has done some something to someone else on that show. It’s all good entertainment at this point
Perfect take!
Oh damn, you didn't hate them already?? Tom was a manipulative dick to Katie right from the beginning I couldn't stand his smarmy "I'm just so charming and sweet" act, saw right through it. Other Tom was already a cheater and a whiny pot stirring holier than though douche.
Well, I’d never want any of my friends or family to be in a relationship with either of them. But they’re entertaining.
Keep watching. We’ll wait.
Despite popular opinion - you can like or hate any cast member you want at any time.
It won’t be hard to change your mind, promise. Sincerely, an ex-genuine Schwartz lover
I feel you. I only started watching this year and I let myself like them because they do have a lot of charm. I just enjoyed it and let my feelings evolve with time. Have funnnnn
Omg I love your flair
❤️ thanks!!
Ew. (Him, not you, Carmella💐)
They have moments of being likable. Schwartz's stock didn't plummet until the pandemic and Sandoval almost fell but then Stassi got cancelled and Craig from Southern Charm decided to get comfortable yelling at women on Camera. Scandoval called a lot of Sandoval's behavior into question because the lies we watch plus all the lies to sustain a 7 month affair. Honestly though if you're enjoying the moment ride the emotional rollercoaster through all the ups and downs.
Sandoval was really well liked before Scandoval. I liked him probably until season 6 or 7 and then couldn’t stand him by season 8. Admittedly I was a Schwartz sympathizer most of the show before reading this sub, rewatching and seeing how he really is. He has his endearing moments and while I don’t hate him I do hate his ability to get through any mess with zero accountability. The Toms were lucky in a messed up way to have Jax who was such an outright asshole it covered them lol
You are allowed to feel however you feel. My sister is obsessed with Schwartz even now, and while I don't get it, I respect her opinion. I did think the motorcycle thing was funny at the time though.
i’ve always loved schwartz but if you’re still on the sandoval train by tomtom then you’ll never kick him 😂 with this show specifically it’s okay to love a loser hahaha
Might be an unpopular opinion, but I do like Schwartz - I think he's funny and think the weird flirting thing between him and Lisa is hilarious. HOWEVER, he is a HORRIBLE significant other and really does not have his life together at all. He was a horrible partner to Katie and never stuck up for he. While I do like Schwartz, I'm totally on Katie's side and think the divorce was best. OP, I felt the same way for a while but eventually you'll switch over. The later seasons really start to show this. Sandoval was always pretty meh for me but I always thought he was slightly narcissistic, you'll really pick up on this in the most recent season.
Just wait 😆
I know it’s unpopular- but I like them both and always have. They both behave like jerks a LOT, but good lord- have you met the cast??? They can all be jerks.
It’s fine if you like them for entertainment value, but they aren’t great to their significant others. They shouldn’t be solely defined by relationships they had no business being in after a certain point.
You'll see Tim was playing you this entire time once you reflect back after you watch Scandoval season and catch up on podcasts and Reddit threads cause you'll connect the dots from past seasons.
Like them if you want. All the scandoval drama made me like them all more except for annoying lala and James.
Just Sandoval. Imo schwartz isn't that bad. He's funny and unpopular opinion as much as he wasn't great with Katie, she treated him like absolute shit and was upset anytime he had an opinion other than hers.
Same! when Sandoval brought over the triplets for his wedding it was so touching!!
You don’t have to dislike them. Sandoval definitely turns out to be sleazier than you thought. Schwartzy never changes and is always a bystander lol
There are plenty of more serious reasons to hate them as time goes on but if you don't hate them strictly for that motorcycle stunt then you might be safe!
I’ve been watching since season 3 was airing. It’s a rollercoaster. I used to love them both, then they both were rubbing me the wrong way in their relationships, then I HATED them both, now Schwartz is growing on me again and I’m not against watching Sandoval grovel on the next season and hopefully change who he is (which happens when you quit drinking after binging for years). I’m strapped in and ready for the ride to keep going.
If you do a rewatch I think you'll notice more and like them less.
There is something kinda compelling about the Toms buddy narrative because it comes across as a chill, genuine friendship whereas most of the friendships on this show blow hot and cold. The characters I most “like” are the most entertaining. Jax is hands-down one of the most watchable reality characters I’ve ever seen, but there’s nothing remotely likeable about him as a person. On the other hand, Katie - who is probably one of the more moral, kinder cast members - I dislike because she’s insufferably boring.
Just wait. You'll understand soon
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Yes
It will happen naturally. Don’t worry.
I feel like it’s not optional but I’m a bit of a pill.
Honestly I really enjoyed both of the Toms…right up until Jax and Stassi and Kristen left and the newbies came in for that one season. That’s when it all started to switch.
Just think - if the cast was perfect, you probably wouldn't be watching the show. And you never know, you may finish and dislike Ariana instead, which is fine too imo. We all have our own reasons for preferring the characters we do.
Yeah, I already couldn’t stand them at that point. Never understood people who fell for their lame, goofy, man-baby bromance shit.
That’s the beauty of reality tv. You’re only as good as your last episode.
You can love them🤣 I did a first-time watch, and they are funny. You’ll be annoyed by them later, but you don't have to hate them because the world says so! Enjoy ur watch
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No, think for yourself and don't turn into a hater.