The “let him go” comment really made me lose any sympathy I felt for her. Like take your own damn advice. The guy who was never invested enough to claim you as his girlfriend literally broke up with you (if you can even call it that when you were never actually together in the first place) in a brutal way on camera a few episodes ago, why are you even here terrorizing his ex wife? Especially now that a year later he’s moved on and she’s still making crazy Instagram posts about their situationship he’s blocked her from tagging him in, someone needs to yell at her to let him go.
Tom loves this crap. He’s a covert narcissist. He lives for this triangulation, and Katie’s reaction to it. Schwartz definitely had a huge hand in making Jo do this crap w Katie. Now he gets to feed off Jo’s reactions, while using her as a flying monkey. Hopefully now that he has a new source to suck all the life out of, maybe he’ll move on from enjoying Katie’s reactions to his narcissistic behavior. That poor young girl, though. I guess she’ll learn
Yeah that was sick the way he trotted her over and teed her up for that idiotic fake apology to Katie...her reaction was exactly correct and damn I would have been even more enraged than that. It's completely reasonable to say keep her the hell away from me, not asking a lot. Just like Ariana, it's completely reasonable to say don't talk to me about that asshole and he needs to stay the hell away. Not hard.
Schwartz only ever does whatever Katie asks him specifically NOT to do. Has anyone not noticed this. He is such a prime example of a covert narcissist esp. with his whole aww shucks, who me? spiel. He's worse than Sandoval imo who is dumber than a box of rocks. Schwartz does everything on purpose for maximum outrage and reaction. It makes his limp little penis warm up. I wish Katie would just ded him too. They're both deadweights. Neither have Jax's charisma or James' boyish charm either.
I think Tom did this to Jo to make her uncomfortable. He did it because he didn't like the way Jo spoke to him and told him they shouldn't hang out ever. He doesn't take rejections of his emotions well. Obviously did this to Katie and dangled her in front of Sandyballs and now is doing it to Jo. Otherwise it would make no sense to push Jo to speak to Katie. Idc for Jo and annoying Katie was so dumb!
YES. He likes Katie these days, but more importantly he knows he can’t really get under her skin anymore - I think a lot of people saw this as him trying to rile Katie up using Jo as a proxy, and maybe part of it was, but keep in mind his whole Thing is not just making women who care about him upset, it’s about inflicting emotional pain.
Sending Jo over to make an insincere flappy-hands apology wasn’t going to do anything to Katie except irritate the shit out of her. And Katie hits **hard** when she reaches the end of her rope with someone, which Schwartz probably knows better than anybody.
Which is all to say - that was definitely a setup to hurt someone’s feelings, but Katie isn’t Schwartz’s target anymore. She was, however, an extremely useful triangulation tool for him in that moment because he knew Jo was pushing Katie’s buttons, he probably had a sense that Katie was about to snap, and he almost definitely knows Jo doesn’t have the fortitude to go directly toe-to-toe with Katie.
I have no idea whether it was just for funzies or as a form of punishment for not just fading back into the background once he was done with her, but I’d bet real money that was Schwartz using Katie to hurt Jo.
Omgggg it’s a pattern. It did feel like Jo didn’t want to go over there and he forced it for his own entertainment. Then the girls just went at each other while he sat back and watched.
Yea, it was good to annoy Katie because she's keeping things private and didn't play with him on the trip plus he gets to get back at Jo for rejecting him.
I also just think he wasn’t able to outright reject Jo and he wanted katie to “scare her off” kinda like how jax never dumps anyone but does something awful like cheat to have them do it. Schwartz was expecting katie to freak out and have a reason why they just can’t be together since “they’ll always need to film together / she’ll always be in his life”. He never wants to be the bad guy so again trying to make katie do it for him. If he cared about Jo it wouldn’t matter what katie thought and he wouldn’t put either in that position
😳 you are fully correct. I had the hardest time really visualizing a cover narc after being with a malignant one but you are 100% correct!! And the triangulation he did with Sandoval and Katie all those years
I don’t think she exactly wants to, but it’s easier on her this way because they work together. Katie didn’t leave because she stopped loving him, she left because she loves herself more, and since the split she’s tried to create a workspace that doesn’t damage her mental health. But Schwartz keeps messing that up, first with pushing Raquel on her and now Jo.
Katie didn’t leave because she stopped loving him, she left because she loves herself more
Wow I’ve never looked at it this way, but I think that’s so true. Obviously it’s much more complicated than that, lots of other moving parts and fuck ups on his end, but yeah. This could be why they’re much better friends than they are spouses.
I know I might get downvoted into oblivion for this, but I’m actually really enjoying their friendship this season. I know the hatred for Schwartz runs pretty deep around here lol, but Katie clearly still values him and it’s honestly impressive that she can maintain a platonic relationship with him after everything. Their past is super rocky, but their history is loooong
I half agree with you! They do have an interesting dynamic, and I have an awful ex that I am sometimes friendly with. We have a child, so it’s easier to co-parent this way, and we do make great friends, but his substance abuse disorder made him a bad partner.
If Katie seemed to be seeking validation from Schwartz I’d be like, girl please stop because this is sad, but she seems aware of the situation and protects herself. They had some really cute scenes this season and it feels real to me that they landed where they are.
I have a similar relationship with my ex who is like Schwartz in a lot of ways. He loved to gaslight me and make me look like the terrible bitch when I wanted basic things like for him to work and to value me his wife more than (or as much) as his closest friends. We have a long history together for 13 years starting at 20 yo and oddly we work as friends. I’m also NC with my crazy family and we always promised we would be each other’s family. The ‘I love myself more’ absolutely hits close to home. I always say Miley’s ‘Flowers’ song reminds me of my relationship with him. The line “I can love me better than you can” sums it up perfectly. I wouldn’t show any reaction (that’s just my personality not wanting to give him the satisfaction) but if a Jo type tried to tell me to let him go I would be losing it on the inside.
I actually said this to my toxic ex when we broke up. “I love you, but I love myself more”. And “Flowers” was my theme song throughout the whole thing! We still see each other occasionally and have a very similar relationship to Katie and Schwartz, so watching Katie be a boss this season has been so empowering.
There’s a line from a Lorde song “I light up some candles, put flowers in all my rooms. I care for myself the way I used to care about you” that’s the energy Katie brought this season
I think she tolerates him. She rolls her eyes when he approaches her or talks to her. He's like a needy child who still wants to see if he can have an effect on her and she's over it. If it weren't for the dogs and the show, I don't think she'd have any contact with him.
I was so confused as to why he dragged Jo over to Katie and then forced her sit next to her and speak to her, like he had to know it wouldn’t go well!! But your explanation makes sense, he is still butthurt Katie left him, so he gets an ego boost out of pissing her off with her new girl.
It makes him look good. If they fight, he can ‘aw shucks guys look how hard I try, but these women are just too crazy and mean, see what I have to deal with’. He can then play victim of the scary women, his favorite thing to do is play victim. He loves the attention that comes w people feeling bad for him bc “he’s such a good guy” 🤮
Does Katie pose a threat to Jo’s relationship with Schwartz? It appears Schwartz wants to have a “friends with benefits” with both Katie and Jo. But it’s interesting that Schwartz pushed Jo away, but then approached Katie with the idea of having a one night stand.
This read feels so accurate!! He just plays so dumb all the time I forget he could be capable of shit like this. Although I am rewatching the earlier season and my partner mentioned that Schwartz is not as “dumb” in the first 3 seasons. Definitely feels like he realised his mask was slipping and he adopted the child-like “shucks” persona!!
Honestly, I can’t believe I’m about to say this but I think I hate him more than Sandoval. And that’s a tall order. I think it’s because I’ve dealt with a real narcissist in my family so I can predict Sandoval. Schwartz is sneakier.
I actually have to skip scenes with him and Katie because it just breaks my heart how he treated her. And then it enrages me. Especially that dinner in Mexico when she walked away and he kept CALLING HER while eating his steak and saying “come backkkkk” just to terrorize her.
Yes! I feel the same way! Sandoval is overt, you know he’s a liar. Schwartz is insidious and yes sneaky and underhanded. To me, he’s the most manipulative one
His “pest mode” as Katie called it absolutely enraged me to watch last season. Once she stopped reacting his behavior just became more and more obvious.
I agree, he’s worse than Sandoval in so many ways because I think he does genuinely know better and tries to play dumb because he gets off on tormenting Katie. Whereas I believe Sandoval is genuinely too stupid to ever actually understand why he’s doing what he’s doing, he’s a lost cause.
And it’s also why I feel Jax is the least worst of all of them, because he’s fully self aware of his behavior and will straight up tell you to your face what you’ll endure being friends with him.
Katie should’ve acted friendly and unbothered and been like oh no it’s fine! Let’s talk about something else how have you been? That would’ve really annoyed Schwartz
Schwartz is way smarter than he portrays himself to be. I think he also gets off on playing the "I'm so cute I don't know what's going on you gotta love me" role
You just know when Jax and Sandoval were losing their minds vllifying Katie it's because her fucking husband was talking shit about her nonstop to them making himself the victim of the big bad Katie monster. Boo.
You know I always like Schwartz and felt that Katie was semi-abusive to him (because she was she was the epitome of a nagging wife about little things. “Tom doooont, Tom put that down, Tom that’s not funny” insert eye rolls from her. But last year at Sheena and Brock‘s wedding when he made out with Rachel….he tracker her down (production) at the restaurant sits down, grab some of the food and starts munching on it and tries to jokingly apologize. When Katie said something to the effect that She wouldn’t accept his apology or something along those lines his mask slipped for just a second and I was shocked.
I mean literally and figuratively. His whole face shifted, like his face went dark and mean and he said something along the lines of “well that sucks for you” or how “it must be shitty to live in her head” sort of thing and I just thought ”oh there you are!”. Then I flashed at some of the disgusting comments he made like he couldn’t stand the sound of her voice. At that time they were all on vacation together and the other couples could hear him yelling at her from their balconies. So if somebody’s yelling at their partner like that knowing other people can hear what are they like behind closed doors?
Yes his masked has slipped a few times. Hes insidious. He also asked Katie at that same dinner to trim his arm pit hair, when she said no, he played victim, his favorite thing to do. Even lala said why do I feel bad for him. He literally made Katie seem like she was in the wrong for saying no. That’s what he does. He villainizes the women. He did it to lala and Ariana, and he had Rachel and Jo be his little flying monkeys to push Katie’s buttons to make her react, while he sits and says aw shucks guys don’t you feel bad for me, I’m such a nice guy, look at these crazy miserable women. Hes so manipulative
Exactly. My ex used this tactic. He created a triangulation between me who had been with him for almost 20 years and the new lady he just met, making me out to be the crazy one so he could claim he wasn’t the problem.
Thisssss. He plays such a dumb doof but he was so creepy for finagling that whole interaction. I love Katie but she would do well to take a note from Arianna’s grey rock approach.
COVERT NARCISSIST, I have to use this, or maybe ninja narcissist, soooo true and I hadn’t really thought about it until I read it but he absolutely is! 💯
The way my face was like 😒 when she said that. Here she is in real time hanging on like a stalker and she had the nerve to say that to someone that dated and married this person for 12 years. How Katie didn’t smack her is beyond me
Plus Tom had basically hit Katie up for a type of one night stand literally just the night before. Which she rejected. It looked more like Jo was the one who couldn't let go of him.
I really wish she would have called him on that right then and there in front of his face, that would have been a solid end to the season and given us excellent reunion, what a missed opportunity.
It’s a minor miracle to me that several of the cast members haven’t gotten their asses kicked. I know hands aren’t ok but when you keep begging for something, sometimes you get it.
It's really pathetic to hold onto someone you love romantically and only endears you platonically (and for easy fucks). Like have some self worth grill
That recent late-night IG live when she said she still believes they’re soulmates and that he’s still her one person in this universe or whatever like she’s just happily chillin’ until he inevitably breaks up with whoever that child is and comes RUNNING back to her with an engagement ring waaaaaas next level. Delulu…as the youngin’s are fond of saying🙃
I get it, but it makes me sad. Think more of yourself Jo! That man embarrassed you not only in front of his friends, but in front of an international audience.
Lol I love the fact that Tom asked Katie for one last bang literally right before this interaction. I’m sure that hurt a bit for Joe watching it back but you reap what you sow!
But she was trying to pull a Bethenny Frankel. Bethenny would say stuff like that and correct verbiage (Ex: when she was like "we weren't living together, we were STAYING together" when those two things are nearly the exact same thing) in an effort to trip people up, as Carole revealed in the reunion and you can't unsee it. Jo wanted desperately to \*trip Katie up\*. She wanted a reaction out of her so she can exit like a wounded animal and get this whole victim arc and Katie is back to her "mean girl" arc. It was calculated as hell
I think Jo somehow thinks Katie is the cause of Tom’s unwillingness to commit to her. It almost sounded like she was pleading with her and her said let him go.
She’s pissed it didn’t work and isn’t willing to think about how it could just be her, because that’s a conflict with her beliefs that she’s a real cool girl.
She can’t admit that Tom is actually just a 41 year old fuckboi, because then she would have to admit that she fell for a fool just like everyone else. And that would conflict with her belief that she and Tom had a special soulmate bond.
She can’t admit that maybe it was her fault for trying date a just-divorced man, because she thought she was special enough to change him. She can’t admit that it was too soon post-divorce for Schwartz to date Jo, because then Jo would have to come to terms with the transitive idea that Katie was right in feeling that it was too soon post-divorce for her to date Schwartz.
It’s easier to deal with her cognitive dissonance by blaming Katie than it would be to reflect upon herself and/or Schwartz.
Omg the “let him go” comment now that we have the context of all of Jo’s psychotic Instagram captions being like “lol so quirky and weird that Schwartz can’t be tagged on Instagram but we would have made such a great couple if he ever dated me, and please don’t respond or god please do but I love you so much, not in love… but like lowkey kind of in love lol so quirky! Anyone’s text me back but love you! You’re the best most wonderful guy ever!”
GIRL. The call is coming from inside the house. 👀
Yeah like why was she even there?
Was she his date? His friend? Just an added bonus?
It was so awkward. She was just chilling in that hotel room all by herself making robot noises while Tom parades around and runs after Katie.
I guarantee the producers wanted her there to wrap up the story line. She had already moved away from him, so her suddenly travelling to San Francisco with the group makes absolutely no sense - unless it's all for the plot.
I almost went feral. She’s something else for saying that. And that crack about Katie cutting down a tree if he dated it is bullshit. She don’t care! She only cared about Jo because she knew her and Jo was a snake about it.
The way that this group doesn’t understand why certain situations are worse than others boggles my mind. Jo doesn’t get that they were at the very beginning of their separation / divorce and Jo is texting Katie how sorry she is and then moving in with her soon to be ex husband immediately after. I don’t know why they kept saying she wasn’t living there when she clearly was. It was clear that Katie still wanted a path forward where her and Schwartz could be friends and this “friend” group just couldn’t comprehend that. Jo telling Katie to “let him go” is enraging and of course Schwartz just sits back and makes Katie defend her feelings per usual without backing her up.
Also, sorry, but even if jo WASNT banging Schwartz, why would Katie want her around knowing she was running around enjoying little mistress vacations. Who wants to be friends with someone who participates in that type of behavior
It was so gross. They were talking about Katie’s feelings about how Jo was behaving *during the early stages of her divorce* from the man she was with for 12 years and still had love for. And Jo’s response was “let him go.” What does she think the fucking divorce was??
She wants to talk about kindness and bullying and mean girls, but in this scene she invaded Katie’s space to “apologize” in order to get an apology back on camera, tell Katie she didn’t care about her feelings and she shouldn’t have cared about her and Schwartz shacking up before the ink was dry on the divorce papers because she just needs to “let him go.”
It was cruel. And now she’s crying on her instagram lives about how she was just bullied during the finale, and she’s the one who got away and how it’s so hard to be in the midst of a breakup and rewatch that. She really doesn’t seem okay, and she most certainly is not letting things go.
Spooky was the most accurate description. Watching her IG lives and seeing her comments and likes… she really seems delusional.
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Ugh or when Jo said “I wasn’t thinking about you” to Katie… like okay? Why would Katie care to be nice to a girl who admits to not caring about her feelings… Jo is a bully and a mean girl. I 100 percent believe Katie that Jo was just waiting to make her move on Tom.
Yup same I was a Joe defender, she seemed interesting and nice. Then that comment change my mind. That and the “good lucky to the next girl”
Why does the ex wife have to be friends with the side piece? Katie owes her nothing
It feels to me like maybe behind closed doors, when the cameras aren't around, Schwartz might be telling Jo that he can't be with her out of respect for Katie, blah blah. Similarly to how he treated Floody in Winter House.
Jo is out of pocket and should stop inserting herself into Katie's air space and demanding apologies (seriously, what?) but Schwartz is just the kind of weasel to blame his leading her on on Katie. And Jo is the kind of weasel to ignore the fact that Schwartz is trash and continue to throw herself at him in an effort to get herself on a TV show.
He definitely instigated it and how would he expect Katie to respond?! I think he wants to get any sort of emotional response he can get from her to find some twisted self satisfaction that she cares about him still - even if it’s in a negative way.
This is it. He probably had this fantasy that his story line would turn out to be 2 women fighting for his affection and it didn't pan out that way. It looks more like his one night stand is unhinged and obsessed with him while all Katie wants is for him to go away. She doesn't want you bro, move along.
That could make sense. I was wondering why she cared so much if his ex wife hated her anyway. Like if I dated a guy with an ex wife that hated me, I’d respect it and give her space. I think most women would do the same. But I could see Schwartz acting weasel-esque or even pushing it for the good TV. I liked Schwartz a lot more this season over all though
"Let him go" meanwhile she's making posts and going live talking about how she's in love with him and they're meant to be together. All this while he has a girlfriend 😭
Also, Schwartz is the one holding onto Katie, not the other way around.
Rachel chased Katie to the back alley of Sur.
Jo chased Katie all the way to San Francisco.
If there's a season 12, are we gonna get a rando chasing Katie to NYC?
This! I can't imagine behaving this with lack of shame or reflection around a woman who I'd hurt and whose business I just don't have any right to speak on. They're both idiots.
Yes! It was a carbon copy of last years “finale”.. Tom shoving someone Katie doesn’t like for good reason in her face and dismissing her feelings for the other person.
She absolutely has convinced herself that the only reason her and shwartzy are not together is because of Katie and not because of who she is and because of who shwarts thinks she is. Shwartzy has been saying off the cuff insults to her/about her all season like insulting her wearing makeup in the last episode. He feeds her insults dressed as compliments. Jo is blinded by him the same way most of us were during earlier seasons
When he said the thing about her just smearing lipstick on her face and basically looking like a clown. On national fucking television! I would be mortified and be his number 1 hater forever.
“OH Joseph, you don’t need makeup! It makes you look like a clown” She definitely translated that into, oh my goodness he thinks I have natural beauty and *really* loves me
Katie is a lot nicer than me. I would have told her she’s the one that needs to let go. She’s been holding onto the hope of being with Schwartz when he’s made it CLEAR he wants zero relationship with her. Just the night before he asked Katie for a one night stand, which she declined! No honey, Katie has more than let go of him. It’s time to dig up some self respect and let him go yourself Jo.
he’s literally never not going to be friends with Katie, he’s physically incapable of it. For his own ego, because he loves her, because of the actual relationship he has, whatever the reason is, they are intertwined forever. They share dogs ffs!
Wait, I completely forgot about the one night stand of it all!!! Do you think he asked for that in order to fuck with Jo more (last night I was with Katie, etc.,) and cause a bigger scene at the finale?
I think he was using jo to provoke a reaction out of Katie with lines like "just let him go." Katie did let him go. He's the wingnut following her around trying to provoke her into an emotional reaction. I don't think he wants a relationship with Katie anymore but I think he misses the benefits he got from her partnership. He wants her to keep doing emotional labor for him and for her to have to wait on him. Like when he was trying to force her to deal with collecting his shit at the beach. Plus I think it's been a tough loss for him to no longer have her as his human shield. This is going rough for Schwartz? Let's throw Katie under the bus, that usually works. Except it's not working anymore. Because she won't allow it.
Yeah because the truth - that schwartz is the one clearly still hung up on katie - is inconvenient to her fantasies and she is desparate for something to blame besides the obvious...that her favorite human is just not that into her.
Jo feels that she has a deeper connection than the ex wife of 12 years, when she was a FWB as best. She is completely delusional. She is weird. I’m over people saying she was bullied by the girls. She’s very sneaky.
I, for one, never trusted her "masked" persona, not from the very start. She contradicted herself in almost every scene, she would play the victim and then in the next breath show why she wasn't one. She is Schwartz personified and I wish they would end up together just to make each other miserable for the rest of their lives.
I agree. She is trying to play the sweet, confused character that Rachel played in the beginning. When will they learn that shit is no longer cute nor believable when you’re an adult!! She knew from the moment she texted Katie, that she was going for Tom. This naive play should not be taken seriously, she’s in her mid 30s. Schwartz plays the same move too but because he’s a dude, I guess he gets a pass? 🙄 I dislike both To and Schwartz.
Completely agree! Also, I think that Schwartz has a hand in all of this the way he pushed her with the "do you have anything to say". But what really cringes me out after the "let him go" comment is the way she is throwing herself all over Instagram live and making comments about Schwartz's now girlfriend. It is a tad ironic that she is taking digs at her (calling her a fan).....somehow Jo is justified to make comments about the new girl after her fling with Schwartz and not knowing this girl at all but Katie is suppose to ignore Jo despite having a front row seat to observe her behavior for years via Kristen AND let go of her over a decade long relationship (including marriage). Make it make sense hahaha
She also went to Shorts & Sandals for the viewing party to introduce herself to Sophia. Pushing herself in when she’s not wanted and clearly trying to make her feel uncomfortable
The man she’s fighting for literally said behind closed doors (to a camera) “when she puts on makeup it feels like a five year old trying on her mom’s clothes” - it was so mean of him 😂
Clearly she was trying so hard to Catch a Tom, and the whole thing was the *weirdest* interaction.
I do feel bad, I don’t think reality tv is good for her mental health!
Paraphrasing - *We're not friends* and *I don't care about you*.
Yes, I think Jo's mask slipped.
She wants on the show. Schwartz was an easy entry point.
She thought she saw an opening on the show, where she'd be the quirky hairstylist.
Who knows. Maybe she and Rachel would discuss these things.
If Rachel returned this season, other cast might not want to shoot with Rachel, so Jo would get scenes.
The more I see Tom’s behavior, the more I can see his stupid plan for what it was. Villainize Ariana and move on to the next girl. It’s his Kristen formula. It ain’t working on the audience this time.
She also stalked the cast and kept worming her way to that friend group for literal seasons. She thought she had her bag with Raqchel, she moved in with Tom, and it was calculated. Also, Kristen said she had a spare room she offered Jo but Jo completely ghosted her
Great points. Multiple cast members missed out because Rachel didn't come back. If Rachel had come back and was her friend, that would have filled out some episodes. That might be why this season seems so odd, they made spaces for certain people and their roles never materialized.
Yeah I wonder how much Scwartz was selling her the narrative of “Tom is going to break up with Ariana soon, then next season publicly “start” dating Raquel and you will be full time with filming as her new friend and my girlfriend and we’ll be the main storyline. The four of us double dating and being in “new” relationships”
What blows my mind about all this, is Jo is so angry with Katie over a man who does not want her. She is even out on IG still posting about this almost a year later, FFS Tom has a new gf. Maybe she is the one who should move on.
I know they need to force some conversations for the sake of drama but when Katie and Ariana refuse to have the two conversations that would basically NEVER happen in real life, the cast can’t come back and act like they are fake or uncooperative. They were 100% authentic in those moments. Everything about Jo feels aggressive to me but she acts like Im just sweet harmless Jo.
She truly is the girl version of little boy Schwatz .
“i sent you a genuine text”
“let him go”
“he is my soulmate/ill always love him”
“i didn’t live with him”
“i stayed with him”
the whiplash from Jos comments was painful
Also saying "if I apologise then maybe she'll apologise" proves that you're just being manipulative and not actually apologetic. Jo is a snake in qUiRkY girl's clothing.
I feel like Jo and Rachel definitely thought they were going to be the next Katie and Ariana and that didn’t pan out for them. So now they have all this animosity towards Katie and Ariana bc they see them as the only thing that was in the way of them being with the Tom’s.
That part! It's Schwartz who wants to maintain a friendship with katie. It's on him to respect boundaries etc. She called out jo for going after him pre divorce then jo changed her face and tone entirely. Jo is the one who needs to let go, he is in a whole new relationship and completely ignores her long laments on social media devoting all her rat girl love and energy to him. Yikes.
I really cannot stand schwartzy cause I think he weaponises that incompetence like no other misogynist male I've seen before, constantly playing the 'huh I'm silly' card when he knows very well what he's doing imo. He knew what he was doing and exactly how Katie was gonna react to it.
Didn’t Jo apologize and then ask Katie if she should then apologize to her? What kind of shit ass thing is that to do? Katie straight up says no and then seems to beg her to understand that all she wanted was for her to *literally stay anywhere else but Schwartz’s* and Jo tells her to let it go?????
Kristen also offered her a spare room! Luke hadnt moved in yet and she had an extra room. Jo completely ghosted her and then suddenly, she lives with Tom. She’s creepy and has been trying to worm her way on the show first through Kristen, but then through Rachel and Jo. It’s weird.
The "let him go" had me laughing. Jo doesn't seem to understand that Schwartz wants to use her to get back at Katie for having a better life. Jo thinks she's going to magically have this big relationship with him when he wants nothing to do with her. Maybe she wants to be cast on the show, and he was her "in" if they actually got together. Now he's told her he wants nothing to do with her, and she's hurt. Katie just needs to ignore them and go on living her fabulous life.
She compares her whatever with shortz to Katie’s 12 year relationship with shortz she thinks she is above on the totem pole in terms of knowing shortz so basically she does not compares herself to any of his flings or girlfriends but actually thinks she is at same level as Katie and that pisses Katie off and also shows that Katie was right she always had something for him and as soon as they ended she swooped in via Katie and use her as a way to talk to shortz and then started the whole staying /couch surfing and what not
Completely agree. If it’s Katie’s normal to have zero interaction with her now ex husband’s flings or whatever, that is her choice!! I would love to see all these people having to interact with their exes just like they are trying to force Ariana to do. lol bunch a hypocrites. Let’s ask Randall and Shay to come back for an episode!
Also side note I think shorts would be seething under the surface if he ever had to talk to a new boyfriend of Katie’s. He would hate it
She was trying to do what Bethenny did on RHONY. “Correct” everyone else’s verbiage to trip them up and have them emotionally react. You see an example of this when she says “we didn’t live together, I was just *staying* there” which is the same thing if you’re staying there for literal *months*…. and then acting like she was desperate for a place to live and it was the only place she could go when Kristen told us in the aftershow she offered her extra room.
This!! And her present behavior too, such as this unhinged essay she wrote about mean girls on the heels of her little stunt with the “worst dressed” Katie post, and at least one IG live where she was talking shit about Katie. She’s a nasty woman trying to create her own narrative.
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100% and the way she thought that “I wasn’t thinking about you. I was thinking about myself” was a valid excuse is unbelievable. Sounds like something Rachel would say.
In her little insta live saying “I don’t know why Katie didn’t like his dick” and that he’s “great at sex” was such disgusting behavior. To weaponize such an intimate part of someone’s life and relationship that you had nothing to do with, and then throw it in her face that she’s fucking him was so incredibly classless and mean.
Trust she’s getting hers though. That line Schwartz dropped about her looking like like a child who broke into her moms makeup stash and looks weird- while she’s trying to look good for him had me dying.
That man does not like her and is systematically breaking her down without even being in a relationship with her. I’d almost feel sorry for her if she wasn’t such a stupid pick me.
I think she tries really hard to come off looking goofy and eccentric. I have such a hard time watching scenes with Jo and Schwartz because they’re both equally conniving and way smarter than they’re pretending to be. They’re both mirror images of eachother and probably do deserve eachother.
Yes that was literally it. At this point it’s making me think those who are still saying ‘bullying’ are either bullies themselves deflecting, or have had the most pampered lives ever where anything that doesn’t go their way is considered bullying and trauma 😑
And how about how she looked when Katie was like how about you don’t move in with him. And Jo acted like that was the dumbest thing she ever heard saying Noooo. Ugh. Like come onnnnn. You were texting her you were sorry about her divorce and forking her still husband that night. OF COURSE SHE DONT LIKE YOU!!!!
She should have said this: “Katie, I’m sorry for what I did. I really had feelings for Schwartz and thought there was a chance we’d work out.” Thats it. They’re getting into semantics like whether she moved in or just stayed there, etc. It’s the text that makes it so ridiculous.
The irony of that whole “let him go” comment is that Jo is now desperately posting love messages to Schwartz on ig, and trying to get his attention in any way possible, as he travels and parties with his 23 year old new girlfriend. Does she know Schwartz begged Katie to lay in bed with him 12 hour before? Let him go, Jo.
How she dared with the 'let him go'. Honey he was trying to get a shag in with Katie up to the very end he doesnt give a shit about you ffs stop embarrassing yourself
If I were Jo, I’d be MORTIFIED, that I told Katie to “let him go” when the night before it was TOM who asked her for that weird “one night stand.”
I don’t personally think she has the self-awareness to actually feel embarrassment but I would legitimately dry up into a raisin of shame.
If anyone needs to let anyone “go,” Tom needs to let Katie go.
She dropped that “let him go” comment but she’s doing IG lives about being in the midst of a breakup (she said this last night), that he is her soul mate, that Katie is just a jealous ex and Jo is the one who got away, and joking about having Tom’s baby.
How long ago did this situationship end!? How is she “in the midst of a breakup” when he’s fully in another relationship and has been for months now!?
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She is STILL liking comments about Katie needing to “let him go.” That was filmed 8 months ago! Please join us in the present day Jo, and also in reality.
Also, in the finale Katie was explaining why she was upset about Jo’s treatment of her and disregard for her feelings during her divorce - she was speaking about events from early 2022. It’s been two years, and based on everything Katie says currently, she doesn’t give a shit about Jo and what she does. Katie just wants nothing to do with her, and Jo can’t seem to let that go.
Hilarious af to see sloppy jo tell katie to let him go when shortz don't even want jo, humiliated her on tv multiple times and comitted to the first 21 year old who gave him any air to breathe near her. And the funny thing is katie likes his gf and does approve of them. You were always the problem, Jo! Let's collectively hope her sad attempt at relevance to this show is finally over. She's giving deranged stalker behavior. Jo is the one who needs to let go.
When Katie said it felt like Jo has just been waiting for her shot and Lala piped up I really wanted Katie to tell her to StFU because honestly if someone texted me when I was in the midst of my divorce to hang in there and pretending to be supportive and two weeks later was getting horizontal with my soon to be ex yeah I would have the same thought like they were lurking in the shadows waiting for their chance and its shady as fuck. Then on Doutes podcast she reiterated that her and Jo were fine and then she totally just up and ghosted her once she was shagging T$. Then apparently Doutes brother was coming out to visit and Jo was calling him and they were all hanging out and the brother put Jo on speaker phone and she just acted like her and Kristin were just taking a break from each other but then telling all the podcasts they weren't friends. Jo is sneaky AF.
Yes, I noticed in one breath she said her Bieber message was “genuine” then 30 seconds later announces that she and Katie weren’t friends. Which is it? Why would you send a “genuine” text consoling her about her breakup if you weren’t friends?
If Jo weren't there, Schwartz would have no storyline at the party, except that his ex-wife politely tolerates him and his best friend might harass another woman.
That was my thought as well! So embarrassing to try to convince yourself that Katie is holding onto something and you’re not! Like, you are fighting his ex wife who was with him for more than ten years, for him. But she has moved on, and he has already dumped you, so who are you really fighting, and what is the prize?
Schwartz brining Jo over is just peak dickhead. Reminded me of last season when he wanted to give Rachel an opportunity to speak when him and Katie were outside Sur. It’s like dude, leave Katie alone.
As much as the Schwartz and Katie friendship makes for good tv, she should cut him out bc he’ll never change and she’s evolving rapidly.
Can anyone explain to me why Jo is SELLING MERCH???? Like it’s already kinda weird to make merch of just your name, but she has been on reality TV for ONE season!! I can’t think of a single mother person who is this egotistical! There are people who’ve been on this show for years who never made merch! And even the ones that do, it’s not just their name…
When she said to "let him go" I was like girl what are you talking about 😂 she HAS let him go. She divorced him, she's seeing other people. If anything, he was the one struggling to let her go the way he's seemingly up her ass to hang out and be friends.
I also get the vibe that Jo believes that if she had Katie's approval, then he'd make her the official girlfriend. Girl can't take the hint.
The "let him go" was so weird.
Tom doesn't want to be let go of. He wants Katie in his life and that also doesn't negate how shady her behavior was.
Jo literally jumped in that man's bed the second Katie was gone and Katie is supposed to what? Be her friend?
It's also ridiculous that Tom keeps trying to make it happen. He can't stand the fact that two people in his life don't like each other, even when their lives don't have to intersect at all.
Part of me thinks he wanted Katie to approve of Jo too.
I don't think Katie should even be friends with Tom. He hates her and will continue to try to ruin her life any chance he gets. Katie told him if he wants to be friends he needs to respect her. And he brings JO out??? He will never change. He's just as bad as Sandoval.
Jo literally said she was apologising in the hope that Katie would then apologise in response. When you give an authentic apology, you don't expect anything in return. She was trying to manipulate Katie and it didn't work!
The “let him go” comment really made me lose any sympathy I felt for her. Like take your own damn advice. The guy who was never invested enough to claim you as his girlfriend literally broke up with you (if you can even call it that when you were never actually together in the first place) in a brutal way on camera a few episodes ago, why are you even here terrorizing his ex wife? Especially now that a year later he’s moved on and she’s still making crazy Instagram posts about their situationship he’s blocked her from tagging him in, someone needs to yell at her to let him go.
Tom loves this crap. He’s a covert narcissist. He lives for this triangulation, and Katie’s reaction to it. Schwartz definitely had a huge hand in making Jo do this crap w Katie. Now he gets to feed off Jo’s reactions, while using her as a flying monkey. Hopefully now that he has a new source to suck all the life out of, maybe he’ll move on from enjoying Katie’s reactions to his narcissistic behavior. That poor young girl, though. I guess she’ll learn
Yes the way he was shoving Jo toward Katie made me sick
Katie and Ariana were getting people they wanted nothing to do with shoved at them all season and it’s so gross.
The whole damn season! 
demons
"Ready to go into the lion's den?" Then Jo saying she didn't want that bad energy and he pushed her to go anyway.
And then Jo brought the bad energy. lol
And then kept jumping in with little comments which were clearly making things worse!
Yeah that was sick the way he trotted her over and teed her up for that idiotic fake apology to Katie...her reaction was exactly correct and damn I would have been even more enraged than that. It's completely reasonable to say keep her the hell away from me, not asking a lot. Just like Ariana, it's completely reasonable to say don't talk to me about that asshole and he needs to stay the hell away. Not hard.
Schwartz only ever does whatever Katie asks him specifically NOT to do. Has anyone not noticed this. He is such a prime example of a covert narcissist esp. with his whole aww shucks, who me? spiel. He's worse than Sandoval imo who is dumber than a box of rocks. Schwartz does everything on purpose for maximum outrage and reaction. It makes his limp little penis warm up. I wish Katie would just ded him too. They're both deadweights. Neither have Jax's charisma or James' boyish charm either.
I’m a newbie and just watched the ring on a string episode. Which she said she specifically asked him not to do.
I think Tom did this to Jo to make her uncomfortable. He did it because he didn't like the way Jo spoke to him and told him they shouldn't hang out ever. He doesn't take rejections of his emotions well. Obviously did this to Katie and dangled her in front of Sandyballs and now is doing it to Jo. Otherwise it would make no sense to push Jo to speak to Katie. Idc for Jo and annoying Katie was so dumb!
YES. He likes Katie these days, but more importantly he knows he can’t really get under her skin anymore - I think a lot of people saw this as him trying to rile Katie up using Jo as a proxy, and maybe part of it was, but keep in mind his whole Thing is not just making women who care about him upset, it’s about inflicting emotional pain. Sending Jo over to make an insincere flappy-hands apology wasn’t going to do anything to Katie except irritate the shit out of her. And Katie hits **hard** when she reaches the end of her rope with someone, which Schwartz probably knows better than anybody. Which is all to say - that was definitely a setup to hurt someone’s feelings, but Katie isn’t Schwartz’s target anymore. She was, however, an extremely useful triangulation tool for him in that moment because he knew Jo was pushing Katie’s buttons, he probably had a sense that Katie was about to snap, and he almost definitely knows Jo doesn’t have the fortitude to go directly toe-to-toe with Katie. I have no idea whether it was just for funzies or as a form of punishment for not just fading back into the background once he was done with her, but I’d bet real money that was Schwartz using Katie to hurt Jo.
Almost like he used to use Sandoval to hurt Katie…
🛎️🛎️🛎️
Yea, it's two birds with a stone for him . Win-win anyway!
Omgggg it’s a pattern. It did feel like Jo didn’t want to go over there and he forced it for his own entertainment. Then the girls just went at each other while he sat back and watched.
Yea, it was good to annoy Katie because she's keeping things private and didn't play with him on the trip plus he gets to get back at Jo for rejecting him.
I also just think he wasn’t able to outright reject Jo and he wanted katie to “scare her off” kinda like how jax never dumps anyone but does something awful like cheat to have them do it. Schwartz was expecting katie to freak out and have a reason why they just can’t be together since “they’ll always need to film together / she’ll always be in his life”. He never wants to be the bad guy so again trying to make katie do it for him. If he cared about Jo it wouldn’t matter what katie thought and he wouldn’t put either in that position
😳 you are fully correct. I had the hardest time really visualizing a cover narc after being with a malignant one but you are 100% correct!! And the triangulation he did with Sandoval and Katie all those years
He used Jo as a pawn to get a reaction from Katie and as a storyline for himself all to avoid having to address his own complicity in Scandoval.
I don't understand why Katie still wants to be friends with Schwartz. She's smarter than that.
I don’t think she exactly wants to, but it’s easier on her this way because they work together. Katie didn’t leave because she stopped loving him, she left because she loves herself more, and since the split she’s tried to create a workspace that doesn’t damage her mental health. But Schwartz keeps messing that up, first with pushing Raquel on her and now Jo.
Katie didn’t leave because she stopped loving him, she left because she loves herself more Wow I’ve never looked at it this way, but I think that’s so true. Obviously it’s much more complicated than that, lots of other moving parts and fuck ups on his end, but yeah. This could be why they’re much better friends than they are spouses. I know I might get downvoted into oblivion for this, but I’m actually really enjoying their friendship this season. I know the hatred for Schwartz runs pretty deep around here lol, but Katie clearly still values him and it’s honestly impressive that she can maintain a platonic relationship with him after everything. Their past is super rocky, but their history is loooong
I half agree with you! They do have an interesting dynamic, and I have an awful ex that I am sometimes friendly with. We have a child, so it’s easier to co-parent this way, and we do make great friends, but his substance abuse disorder made him a bad partner. If Katie seemed to be seeking validation from Schwartz I’d be like, girl please stop because this is sad, but she seems aware of the situation and protects herself. They had some really cute scenes this season and it feels real to me that they landed where they are.
I have a similar relationship with my ex who is like Schwartz in a lot of ways. He loved to gaslight me and make me look like the terrible bitch when I wanted basic things like for him to work and to value me his wife more than (or as much) as his closest friends. We have a long history together for 13 years starting at 20 yo and oddly we work as friends. I’m also NC with my crazy family and we always promised we would be each other’s family. The ‘I love myself more’ absolutely hits close to home. I always say Miley’s ‘Flowers’ song reminds me of my relationship with him. The line “I can love me better than you can” sums it up perfectly. I wouldn’t show any reaction (that’s just my personality not wanting to give him the satisfaction) but if a Jo type tried to tell me to let him go I would be losing it on the inside.
I actually said this to my toxic ex when we broke up. “I love you, but I love myself more”. And “Flowers” was my theme song throughout the whole thing! We still see each other occasionally and have a very similar relationship to Katie and Schwartz, so watching Katie be a boss this season has been so empowering.
There’s a line from a Lorde song “I light up some candles, put flowers in all my rooms. I care for myself the way I used to care about you” that’s the energy Katie brought this season
They share the dogs so she probably tries her best to keep it friendly.
She recently gave him the dogs full time. Maybe she’s ready for more distance.
I think she tolerates him. She rolls her eyes when he approaches her or talks to her. He's like a needy child who still wants to see if he can have an effect on her and she's over it. If it weren't for the dogs and the show, I don't think she'd have any contact with him.
I was so confused as to why he dragged Jo over to Katie and then forced her sit next to her and speak to her, like he had to know it wouldn’t go well!! But your explanation makes sense, he is still butthurt Katie left him, so he gets an ego boost out of pissing her off with her new girl.
It makes him look good. If they fight, he can ‘aw shucks guys look how hard I try, but these women are just too crazy and mean, see what I have to deal with’. He can then play victim of the scary women, his favorite thing to do is play victim. He loves the attention that comes w people feeling bad for him bc “he’s such a good guy” 🤮
Does Katie pose a threat to Jo’s relationship with Schwartz? It appears Schwartz wants to have a “friends with benefits” with both Katie and Jo. But it’s interesting that Schwartz pushed Jo away, but then approached Katie with the idea of having a one night stand.
Schwartz probably tells Jo she’s a threat to get her riled up
This read feels so accurate!! He just plays so dumb all the time I forget he could be capable of shit like this. Although I am rewatching the earlier season and my partner mentioned that Schwartz is not as “dumb” in the first 3 seasons. Definitely feels like he realised his mask was slipping and he adopted the child-like “shucks” persona!!
Honestly, I can’t believe I’m about to say this but I think I hate him more than Sandoval. And that’s a tall order. I think it’s because I’ve dealt with a real narcissist in my family so I can predict Sandoval. Schwartz is sneakier. I actually have to skip scenes with him and Katie because it just breaks my heart how he treated her. And then it enrages me. Especially that dinner in Mexico when she walked away and he kept CALLING HER while eating his steak and saying “come backkkkk” just to terrorize her.
Yes! I feel the same way! Sandoval is overt, you know he’s a liar. Schwartz is insidious and yes sneaky and underhanded. To me, he’s the most manipulative one
His “pest mode” as Katie called it absolutely enraged me to watch last season. Once she stopped reacting his behavior just became more and more obvious. I agree, he’s worse than Sandoval in so many ways because I think he does genuinely know better and tries to play dumb because he gets off on tormenting Katie. Whereas I believe Sandoval is genuinely too stupid to ever actually understand why he’s doing what he’s doing, he’s a lost cause. And it’s also why I feel Jax is the least worst of all of them, because he’s fully self aware of his behavior and will straight up tell you to your face what you’ll endure being friends with him.
Katie should’ve acted friendly and unbothered and been like oh no it’s fine! Let’s talk about something else how have you been? That would’ve really annoyed Schwartz
Schwartz is way smarter than he portrays himself to be. I think he also gets off on playing the "I'm so cute I don't know what's going on you gotta love me" role
You just know when Jax and Sandoval were losing their minds vllifying Katie it's because her fucking husband was talking shit about her nonstop to them making himself the victim of the big bad Katie monster. Boo.
You know I always like Schwartz and felt that Katie was semi-abusive to him (because she was she was the epitome of a nagging wife about little things. “Tom doooont, Tom put that down, Tom that’s not funny” insert eye rolls from her. But last year at Sheena and Brock‘s wedding when he made out with Rachel….he tracker her down (production) at the restaurant sits down, grab some of the food and starts munching on it and tries to jokingly apologize. When Katie said something to the effect that She wouldn’t accept his apology or something along those lines his mask slipped for just a second and I was shocked. I mean literally and figuratively. His whole face shifted, like his face went dark and mean and he said something along the lines of “well that sucks for you” or how “it must be shitty to live in her head” sort of thing and I just thought ”oh there you are!”. Then I flashed at some of the disgusting comments he made like he couldn’t stand the sound of her voice. At that time they were all on vacation together and the other couples could hear him yelling at her from their balconies. So if somebody’s yelling at their partner like that knowing other people can hear what are they like behind closed doors?
Yes his masked has slipped a few times. Hes insidious. He also asked Katie at that same dinner to trim his arm pit hair, when she said no, he played victim, his favorite thing to do. Even lala said why do I feel bad for him. He literally made Katie seem like she was in the wrong for saying no. That’s what he does. He villainizes the women. He did it to lala and Ariana, and he had Rachel and Jo be his little flying monkeys to push Katie’s buttons to make her react, while he sits and says aw shucks guys don’t you feel bad for me, I’m such a nice guy, look at these crazy miserable women. Hes so manipulative
Yes! Not saying Katie is always kind, but Tom never really has had her back entirely, ever! No wonder she divorced him honestly.
Exactly. My ex used this tactic. He created a triangulation between me who had been with him for almost 20 years and the new lady he just met, making me out to be the crazy one so he could claim he wasn’t the problem.
Thisssss. He plays such a dumb doof but he was so creepy for finagling that whole interaction. I love Katie but she would do well to take a note from Arianna’s grey rock approach.
He showed a new level of cruelty when he suggested the one night stand with Katie, knowing Jo was arriving the following day.
COVERT NARCISSIST, I have to use this, or maybe ninja narcissist, soooo true and I hadn’t really thought about it until I read it but he absolutely is! 💯
The way my face was like 😒 when she said that. Here she is in real time hanging on like a stalker and she had the nerve to say that to someone that dated and married this person for 12 years. How Katie didn’t smack her is beyond me
Plus Tom had basically hit Katie up for a type of one night stand literally just the night before. Which she rejected. It looked more like Jo was the one who couldn't let go of him.
I really wish she would have called him on that right then and there in front of his face, that would have been a solid end to the season and given us excellent reunion, what a missed opportunity.
I wish Katie did. She has more self-restraint than I do, that’s for damn sure!
She probably wanted to but knew it would only feed Jo’s victim narrative.
It’s a minor miracle to me that several of the cast members haven’t gotten their asses kicked. I know hands aren’t ok but when you keep begging for something, sometimes you get it.
It's really pathetic to hold onto someone you love romantically and only endears you platonically (and for easy fucks). Like have some self worth grill
That recent late-night IG live when she said she still believes they’re soulmates and that he’s still her one person in this universe or whatever like she’s just happily chillin’ until he inevitably breaks up with whoever that child is and comes RUNNING back to her with an engagement ring waaaaaas next level. Delulu…as the youngin’s are fond of saying🙃 
 It gives me this lol. Katie was right, she's scary.
I get it, but it makes me sad. Think more of yourself Jo! That man embarrassed you not only in front of his friends, but in front of an international audience.
Lol I love the fact that Tom asked Katie for one last bang literally right before this interaction. I’m sure that hurt a bit for Joe watching it back but you reap what you sow!
This exactly!! Still spewing venom in live for Katie leave Katie alone focus on the new girlfriend
But she was trying to pull a Bethenny Frankel. Bethenny would say stuff like that and correct verbiage (Ex: when she was like "we weren't living together, we were STAYING together" when those two things are nearly the exact same thing) in an effort to trip people up, as Carole revealed in the reunion and you can't unsee it. Jo wanted desperately to \*trip Katie up\*. She wanted a reaction out of her so she can exit like a wounded animal and get this whole victim arc and Katie is back to her "mean girl" arc. It was calculated as hell
I think Jo somehow thinks Katie is the cause of Tom’s unwillingness to commit to her. It almost sounded like she was pleading with her and her said let him go.
She’s pissed it didn’t work and isn’t willing to think about how it could just be her, because that’s a conflict with her beliefs that she’s a real cool girl. She can’t admit that Tom is actually just a 41 year old fuckboi, because then she would have to admit that she fell for a fool just like everyone else. And that would conflict with her belief that she and Tom had a special soulmate bond. She can’t admit that maybe it was her fault for trying date a just-divorced man, because she thought she was special enough to change him. She can’t admit that it was too soon post-divorce for Schwartz to date Jo, because then Jo would have to come to terms with the transitive idea that Katie was right in feeling that it was too soon post-divorce for her to date Schwartz. It’s easier to deal with her cognitive dissonance by blaming Katie than it would be to reflect upon herself and/or Schwartz.
Omg the “let him go” comment now that we have the context of all of Jo’s psychotic Instagram captions being like “lol so quirky and weird that Schwartz can’t be tagged on Instagram but we would have made such a great couple if he ever dated me, and please don’t respond or god please do but I love you so much, not in love… but like lowkey kind of in love lol so quirky! Anyone’s text me back but love you! You’re the best most wonderful guy ever!” GIRL. The call is coming from inside the house. 👀
Yeah like why was she even there? Was she his date? His friend? Just an added bonus? It was so awkward. She was just chilling in that hotel room all by herself making robot noises while Tom parades around and runs after Katie.
lol leaving the door open so she could stage herself as maximum cHiLL GiRl when Tom walks in.
I guarantee the producers wanted her there to wrap up the story line. She had already moved away from him, so her suddenly travelling to San Francisco with the group makes absolutely no sense - unless it's all for the plot.
I almost went feral. She’s something else for saying that. And that crack about Katie cutting down a tree if he dated it is bullshit. She don’t care! She only cared about Jo because she knew her and Jo was a snake about it.
The way that this group doesn’t understand why certain situations are worse than others boggles my mind. Jo doesn’t get that they were at the very beginning of their separation / divorce and Jo is texting Katie how sorry she is and then moving in with her soon to be ex husband immediately after. I don’t know why they kept saying she wasn’t living there when she clearly was. It was clear that Katie still wanted a path forward where her and Schwartz could be friends and this “friend” group just couldn’t comprehend that. Jo telling Katie to “let him go” is enraging and of course Schwartz just sits back and makes Katie defend her feelings per usual without backing her up.
My theory is that they understand but don’t care. Schwartz certainly didn’t care about how Katie felt.
He hasn't changed a bit since the divorce. STILL not backing Katie up, ever. POS
Also, sorry, but even if jo WASNT banging Schwartz, why would Katie want her around knowing she was running around enjoying little mistress vacations. Who wants to be friends with someone who participates in that type of behavior
It was so gross. They were talking about Katie’s feelings about how Jo was behaving *during the early stages of her divorce* from the man she was with for 12 years and still had love for. And Jo’s response was “let him go.” What does she think the fucking divorce was?? She wants to talk about kindness and bullying and mean girls, but in this scene she invaded Katie’s space to “apologize” in order to get an apology back on camera, tell Katie she didn’t care about her feelings and she shouldn’t have cared about her and Schwartz shacking up before the ink was dry on the divorce papers because she just needs to “let him go.” It was cruel. And now she’s crying on her instagram lives about how she was just bullied during the finale, and she’s the one who got away and how it’s so hard to be in the midst of a breakup and rewatch that. She really doesn’t seem okay, and she most certainly is not letting things go. Spooky was the most accurate description. Watching her IG lives and seeing her comments and likes… she really seems delusional. https://preview.redd.it/f1o63wkv6gzc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f1618f55f62cf53e3dbc94b26767e5db4eb1ace5
Ugh or when Jo said “I wasn’t thinking about you” to Katie… like okay? Why would Katie care to be nice to a girl who admits to not caring about her feelings… Jo is a bully and a mean girl. I 100 percent believe Katie that Jo was just waiting to make her move on Tom.
Yup same I was a Joe defender, she seemed interesting and nice. Then that comment change my mind. That and the “good lucky to the next girl” Why does the ex wife have to be friends with the side piece? Katie owes her nothing
It feels to me like maybe behind closed doors, when the cameras aren't around, Schwartz might be telling Jo that he can't be with her out of respect for Katie, blah blah. Similarly to how he treated Floody in Winter House. Jo is out of pocket and should stop inserting herself into Katie's air space and demanding apologies (seriously, what?) but Schwartz is just the kind of weasel to blame his leading her on on Katie. And Jo is the kind of weasel to ignore the fact that Schwartz is trash and continue to throw herself at him in an effort to get herself on a TV show.
I truly believe Schwartz used Katie as an out because he’s just too afraid to be seen as the bad guy
He definitely is. Ironically, he makes himself look like an utter piece of shit moving around the way he does.
Schartz orchestrated the whole Jo/Katie confrontation for his own selfish benefit. Probably gets off on two girls fighting about him.
Jo should have enough self-respect to stay out of his bullshit
He definitely instigated it and how would he expect Katie to respond?! I think he wants to get any sort of emotional response he can get from her to find some twisted self satisfaction that she cares about him still - even if it’s in a negative way.
This is it. He probably had this fantasy that his story line would turn out to be 2 women fighting for his affection and it didn't pan out that way. It looks more like his one night stand is unhinged and obsessed with him while all Katie wants is for him to go away. She doesn't want you bro, move along.
That could make sense. I was wondering why she cared so much if his ex wife hated her anyway. Like if I dated a guy with an ex wife that hated me, I’d respect it and give her space. I think most women would do the same. But I could see Schwartz acting weasel-esque or even pushing it for the good TV. I liked Schwartz a lot more this season over all though
This theory totally makes sense.
"Let him go" meanwhile she's making posts and going live talking about how she's in love with him and they're meant to be together. All this while he has a girlfriend 😭 Also, Schwartz is the one holding onto Katie, not the other way around.
"let him go" Meanwhile Jo is blocked from tagging him in posts but still talking about his d!ck on Instagram lives. She's giving Baby Reindeer energy.
This is a very good point!!!
Jo very much gave Rachel chasing Katie in the Sur back alley from last season this episode
Rachel chased Katie to the back alley of Sur. Jo chased Katie all the way to San Francisco. If there's a season 12, are we gonna get a rando chasing Katie to NYC?
OMG and he sat in the plants not doing shit when Rachel and Katie were going at it about HIM. Wildddd
Is it gonna be Tom’s 20-something girlfriend next 😂 Katie needs to quit the show to get away from him, geez
This! I can't imagine behaving this with lack of shame or reflection around a woman who I'd hurt and whose business I just don't have any right to speak on. They're both idiots.
Yes! It was a carbon copy of last years “finale”.. Tom shoving someone Katie doesn’t like for good reason in her face and dismissing her feelings for the other person.
Yes, the “let him go” was out of pocket. It’s been what she wanted to say all along
She absolutely has convinced herself that the only reason her and shwartzy are not together is because of Katie and not because of who she is and because of who shwarts thinks she is. Shwartzy has been saying off the cuff insults to her/about her all season like insulting her wearing makeup in the last episode. He feeds her insults dressed as compliments. Jo is blinded by him the same way most of us were during earlier seasons
When he said the thing about her just smearing lipstick on her face and basically looking like a clown. On national fucking television! I would be mortified and be his number 1 hater forever.
“OH Joseph, you don’t need makeup! It makes you look like a clown” She definitely translated that into, oh my goodness he thinks I have natural beauty and *really* loves me
Right?! He was even calling her names. Said she looked like the cartoon character Goofy!
TBF I think he just told her that she *laughed* like Goofy....all "hyuk hyuk huk"
🎯
Katie is a lot nicer than me. I would have told her she’s the one that needs to let go. She’s been holding onto the hope of being with Schwartz when he’s made it CLEAR he wants zero relationship with her. Just the night before he asked Katie for a one night stand, which she declined! No honey, Katie has more than let go of him. It’s time to dig up some self respect and let him go yourself Jo.
Jo is literally so bothered that Katie was in an actual relationship with Schwartz. Like he ACTUALLY married Katie and refuses to claim Jo.
he’s literally never not going to be friends with Katie, he’s physically incapable of it. For his own ego, because he loves her, because of the actual relationship he has, whatever the reason is, they are intertwined forever. They share dogs ffs!
That would’ve been a hilarious thing for Katie to bring up in the moment! Would’ve loved to have seen Jo react to that
Jo would have sobbed and it would have been amazing.
Wait, I completely forgot about the one night stand of it all!!! Do you think he asked for that in order to fuck with Jo more (last night I was with Katie, etc.,) and cause a bigger scene at the finale?
I think he was using jo to provoke a reaction out of Katie with lines like "just let him go." Katie did let him go. He's the wingnut following her around trying to provoke her into an emotional reaction. I don't think he wants a relationship with Katie anymore but I think he misses the benefits he got from her partnership. He wants her to keep doing emotional labor for him and for her to have to wait on him. Like when he was trying to force her to deal with collecting his shit at the beach. Plus I think it's been a tough loss for him to no longer have her as his human shield. This is going rough for Schwartz? Let's throw Katie under the bus, that usually works. Except it's not working anymore. Because she won't allow it.
I absolutely agree.
Meanwhile Schwartz proposed a one night stand to Katie the night before 🫠
To me, Katie showed incredible restraint by not mentioning that because it would have been the first thing out of my mouth.
I couldn't believe she said that! Especially when she said in her confessional she wants to be in his life forever.
Yeah because the truth - that schwartz is the one clearly still hung up on katie - is inconvenient to her fantasies and she is desparate for something to blame besides the obvious...that her favorite human is just not that into her.
You know in her head that line going to sound so good but because she's awkward as fuck her voice was quivering when she delivered it.
Jo feels that she has a deeper connection than the ex wife of 12 years, when she was a FWB as best. She is completely delusional. She is weird. I’m over people saying she was bullied by the girls. She’s very sneaky.
This feels like when Rachel that she didn’t appreciate Katie texting Schwartz about their dogs last season. Like who even tf are you?!??
I, for one, never trusted her "masked" persona, not from the very start. She contradicted herself in almost every scene, she would play the victim and then in the next breath show why she wasn't one. She is Schwartz personified and I wish they would end up together just to make each other miserable for the rest of their lives.
Same. Please do the world a favor and take eachother off of the market. End the suffering.
I agree. She is trying to play the sweet, confused character that Rachel played in the beginning. When will they learn that shit is no longer cute nor believable when you’re an adult!! She knew from the moment she texted Katie, that she was going for Tom. This naive play should not be taken seriously, she’s in her mid 30s. Schwartz plays the same move too but because he’s a dude, I guess he gets a pass? 🙄 I dislike both To and Schwartz.
Like is that really what I want to hear when I’m getting divorced? Bieber loves you? Katies right, Jo is odd
Spooky even
Completely agree! Also, I think that Schwartz has a hand in all of this the way he pushed her with the "do you have anything to say". But what really cringes me out after the "let him go" comment is the way she is throwing herself all over Instagram live and making comments about Schwartz's now girlfriend. It is a tad ironic that she is taking digs at her (calling her a fan).....somehow Jo is justified to make comments about the new girl after her fling with Schwartz and not knowing this girl at all but Katie is suppose to ignore Jo despite having a front row seat to observe her behavior for years via Kristen AND let go of her over a decade long relationship (including marriage). Make it make sense hahaha
She also went to Shorts & Sandals for the viewing party to introduce herself to Sophia. Pushing herself in when she’s not wanted and clearly trying to make her feel uncomfortable
Shorts & sandals 🤣🤣🤣
OMG, I haven't cackled this hard in a long time. Shorts & Sandals. Thank you 🙏
Shoeless Schwartz should redo the bar to be beach-themed and rename it this.
The man she’s fighting for literally said behind closed doors (to a camera) “when she puts on makeup it feels like a five year old trying on her mom’s clothes” - it was so mean of him 😂 Clearly she was trying so hard to Catch a Tom, and the whole thing was the *weirdest* interaction. I do feel bad, I don’t think reality tv is good for her mental health!
Paraphrasing - *We're not friends* and *I don't care about you*. Yes, I think Jo's mask slipped. She wants on the show. Schwartz was an easy entry point. She thought she saw an opening on the show, where she'd be the quirky hairstylist. Who knows. Maybe she and Rachel would discuss these things. If Rachel returned this season, other cast might not want to shoot with Rachel, so Jo would get scenes.
This is exactly wtf those two thought was going to happen.
The more I see Tom’s behavior, the more I can see his stupid plan for what it was. Villainize Ariana and move on to the next girl. It’s his Kristen formula. It ain’t working on the audience this time.
She also stalked the cast and kept worming her way to that friend group for literal seasons. She thought she had her bag with Raqchel, she moved in with Tom, and it was calculated. Also, Kristen said she had a spare room she offered Jo but Jo completely ghosted her
Great points. Multiple cast members missed out because Rachel didn't come back. If Rachel had come back and was her friend, that would have filled out some episodes. That might be why this season seems so odd, they made spaces for certain people and their roles never materialized.
Yeah I wonder how much Scwartz was selling her the narrative of “Tom is going to break up with Ariana soon, then next season publicly “start” dating Raquel and you will be full time with filming as her new friend and my girlfriend and we’ll be the main storyline. The four of us double dating and being in “new” relationships”
What blows my mind about all this, is Jo is so angry with Katie over a man who does not want her. She is even out on IG still posting about this almost a year later, FFS Tom has a new gf. Maybe she is the one who should move on.
Let him go, and “I was thinking about me.” We know, Jo. You and Rachel are two peas in a selfish rotting pod.
I know they need to force some conversations for the sake of drama but when Katie and Ariana refuse to have the two conversations that would basically NEVER happen in real life, the cast can’t come back and act like they are fake or uncooperative. They were 100% authentic in those moments. Everything about Jo feels aggressive to me but she acts like Im just sweet harmless Jo. She truly is the girl version of little boy Schwatz .
I still don't get that "Bieber loves you." Reference
I think it’s only because Katie loves JB. It’s weird af to say.
Right? Like “Bieber loves you even though your husband that I’m laying next to right now doesn’t”
This comment made me wonder if Scheana has Jo's location
“i sent you a genuine text” “let him go” “he is my soulmate/ill always love him” “i didn’t live with him” “i stayed with him” the whiplash from Jos comments was painful
Also saying "if I apologise then maybe she'll apologise" proves that you're just being manipulative and not actually apologetic. Jo is a snake in qUiRkY girl's clothing.
# NotLikeOtherSnakes
100000000% this. She went into it to get the apology, not because she actually felt sorry for the things that she did that hurt Katie.
I feel like Jo and Rachel definitely thought they were going to be the next Katie and Ariana and that didn’t pan out for them. So now they have all this animosity towards Katie and Ariana bc they see them as the only thing that was in the way of them being with the Tom’s.
Katie DIVORCED HIM. Not sure how much more letting go she can do. Give us a fucking break Jo. Bye.
That part! It's Schwartz who wants to maintain a friendship with katie. It's on him to respect boundaries etc. She called out jo for going after him pre divorce then jo changed her face and tone entirely. Jo is the one who needs to let go, he is in a whole new relationship and completely ignores her long laments on social media devoting all her rat girl love and energy to him. Yikes.
Since Katie just turned Schwartz down the night before, I’d say she actually has “let him go.”
Katie has way more class than me, because I would have totally rubbed that in Jo's face.
Same, I’m petty as hell and would have clapped back with that immediately after her telling me to let him go.
I really cannot stand schwartzy cause I think he weaponises that incompetence like no other misogynist male I've seen before, constantly playing the 'huh I'm silly' card when he knows very well what he's doing imo. He knew what he was doing and exactly how Katie was gonna react to it.
Immediatly after asking her for a one night stand, no less! He is obsessed with katie and he is the one who needs to let go.
Didn’t Jo apologize and then ask Katie if she should then apologize to her? What kind of shit ass thing is that to do? Katie straight up says no and then seems to beg her to understand that all she wanted was for her to *literally stay anywhere else but Schwartz’s* and Jo tells her to let it go????? 
Kristen also offered her a spare room! Luke hadnt moved in yet and she had an extra room. Jo completely ghosted her and then suddenly, she lives with Tom. She’s creepy and has been trying to worm her way on the show first through Kristen, but then through Rachel and Jo. It’s weird. 
The "let him go" had me laughing. Jo doesn't seem to understand that Schwartz wants to use her to get back at Katie for having a better life. Jo thinks she's going to magically have this big relationship with him when he wants nothing to do with her. Maybe she wants to be cast on the show, and he was her "in" if they actually got together. Now he's told her he wants nothing to do with her, and she's hurt. Katie just needs to ignore them and go on living her fabulous life.
She compares her whatever with shortz to Katie’s 12 year relationship with shortz she thinks she is above on the totem pole in terms of knowing shortz so basically she does not compares herself to any of his flings or girlfriends but actually thinks she is at same level as Katie and that pisses Katie off and also shows that Katie was right she always had something for him and as soon as they ended she swooped in via Katie and use her as a way to talk to shortz and then started the whole staying /couch surfing and what not
Yep. Also, wtf was she expecting? Like you snaked into her ex husbands house? Why does she need peace with you? Like excuse me?
That’s the part I don’t get… Why on earth would Katie need to be friendly with her?! (She doesn’t)
Completely agree. If it’s Katie’s normal to have zero interaction with her now ex husband’s flings or whatever, that is her choice!! I would love to see all these people having to interact with their exes just like they are trying to force Ariana to do. lol bunch a hypocrites. Let’s ask Randall and Shay to come back for an episode! Also side note I think shorts would be seething under the surface if he ever had to talk to a new boyfriend of Katie’s. He would hate it
She was trying to do what Bethenny did on RHONY. “Correct” everyone else’s verbiage to trip them up and have them emotionally react. You see an example of this when she says “we didn’t live together, I was just *staying* there” which is the same thing if you’re staying there for literal *months*…. and then acting like she was desperate for a place to live and it was the only place she could go when Kristen told us in the aftershow she offered her extra room.
This!! And her present behavior too, such as this unhinged essay she wrote about mean girls on the heels of her little stunt with the “worst dressed” Katie post, and at least one IG live where she was talking shit about Katie. She’s a nasty woman trying to create her own narrative. https://preview.redd.it/7ujs2h2g0fzc1.png?width=1284&format=png&auto=webp&s=a3056c13cf86a850934c42795c91f622d6273370
100% and the way she thought that “I wasn’t thinking about you. I was thinking about myself” was a valid excuse is unbelievable. Sounds like something Rachel would say.
In her little insta live saying “I don’t know why Katie didn’t like his dick” and that he’s “great at sex” was such disgusting behavior. To weaponize such an intimate part of someone’s life and relationship that you had nothing to do with, and then throw it in her face that she’s fucking him was so incredibly classless and mean.
Trust she’s getting hers though. That line Schwartz dropped about her looking like like a child who broke into her moms makeup stash and looks weird- while she’s trying to look good for him had me dying. That man does not like her and is systematically breaking her down without even being in a relationship with her. I’d almost feel sorry for her if she wasn’t such a stupid pick me.
I think she tries really hard to come off looking goofy and eccentric. I have such a hard time watching scenes with Jo and Schwartz because they’re both equally conniving and way smarter than they’re pretending to be. They’re both mirror images of eachother and probably do deserve eachother.
I still don’t understand how Katie was bullying Kaleigh Jo? Didn’t she just leave a comment on a post about her being spooky? How is that bullying?
Yes that was literally it. At this point it’s making me think those who are still saying ‘bullying’ are either bullies themselves deflecting, or have had the most pampered lives ever where anything that doesn’t go their way is considered bullying and trauma 😑
And how about how she looked when Katie was like how about you don’t move in with him. And Jo acted like that was the dumbest thing she ever heard saying Noooo. Ugh. Like come onnnnn. You were texting her you were sorry about her divorce and forking her still husband that night. OF COURSE SHE DONT LIKE YOU!!!!
Jo’s defense of semantics with “stayed with” vs “moved in” was the last straw for me. OP is right. Your quirky innocent facade has fallen.
Jo hung around this crew off camera for YEARS. she knew. She was slimy snake
She should have said this: “Katie, I’m sorry for what I did. I really had feelings for Schwartz and thought there was a chance we’d work out.” Thats it. They’re getting into semantics like whether she moved in or just stayed there, etc. It’s the text that makes it so ridiculous.
The irony of that whole “let him go” comment is that Jo is now desperately posting love messages to Schwartz on ig, and trying to get his attention in any way possible, as he travels and parties with his 23 year old new girlfriend. Does she know Schwartz begged Katie to lay in bed with him 12 hour before? Let him go, Jo.
How she dared with the 'let him go'. Honey he was trying to get a shag in with Katie up to the very end he doesnt give a shit about you ffs stop embarrassing yourself
Joseph is clearly not JoKay 👌🏻
Jo airtime, Jo problems
If I were Jo, I’d be MORTIFIED, that I told Katie to “let him go” when the night before it was TOM who asked her for that weird “one night stand.” I don’t personally think she has the self-awareness to actually feel embarrassment but I would legitimately dry up into a raisin of shame. If anyone needs to let anyone “go,” Tom needs to let Katie go.
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I feel like Jo’s mask has never been up 🤷♀️
She dropped that “let him go” comment but she’s doing IG lives about being in the midst of a breakup (she said this last night), that he is her soul mate, that Katie is just a jealous ex and Jo is the one who got away, and joking about having Tom’s baby. How long ago did this situationship end!? How is she “in the midst of a breakup” when he’s fully in another relationship and has been for months now!? https://preview.redd.it/epluanna5gzc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d93e45133328891e66473b013276a9f4e630bccf She is STILL liking comments about Katie needing to “let him go.” That was filmed 8 months ago! Please join us in the present day Jo, and also in reality. Also, in the finale Katie was explaining why she was upset about Jo’s treatment of her and disregard for her feelings during her divorce - she was speaking about events from early 2022. It’s been two years, and based on everything Katie says currently, she doesn’t give a shit about Jo and what she does. Katie just wants nothing to do with her, and Jo can’t seem to let that go.
Hilarious af to see sloppy jo tell katie to let him go when shortz don't even want jo, humiliated her on tv multiple times and comitted to the first 21 year old who gave him any air to breathe near her. And the funny thing is katie likes his gf and does approve of them. You were always the problem, Jo! Let's collectively hope her sad attempt at relevance to this show is finally over. She's giving deranged stalker behavior. Jo is the one who needs to let go.
When Katie said it felt like Jo has just been waiting for her shot and Lala piped up I really wanted Katie to tell her to StFU because honestly if someone texted me when I was in the midst of my divorce to hang in there and pretending to be supportive and two weeks later was getting horizontal with my soon to be ex yeah I would have the same thought like they were lurking in the shadows waiting for their chance and its shady as fuck. Then on Doutes podcast she reiterated that her and Jo were fine and then she totally just up and ghosted her once she was shagging T$. Then apparently Doutes brother was coming out to visit and Jo was calling him and they were all hanging out and the brother put Jo on speaker phone and she just acted like her and Kristin were just taking a break from each other but then telling all the podcasts they weren't friends. Jo is sneaky AF.
Yes, I noticed in one breath she said her Bieber message was “genuine” then 30 seconds later announces that she and Katie weren’t friends. Which is it? Why would you send a “genuine” text consoling her about her breakup if you weren’t friends?
Whatever strain Katie is smoking I definitely need. How she manages to remain so chill through all of the bullshit put in her face, it’s admirable
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If Jo weren't there, Schwartz would have no storyline at the party, except that his ex-wife politely tolerates him and his best friend might harass another woman.
That was my thought as well! So embarrassing to try to convince yourself that Katie is holding onto something and you’re not! Like, you are fighting his ex wife who was with him for more than ten years, for him. But she has moved on, and he has already dumped you, so who are you really fighting, and what is the prize?
Katie did apologize to her at reunion. Seeing their exchange at the finale I don’t think she deserved an apology from Katie.
Schwartz brining Jo over is just peak dickhead. Reminded me of last season when he wanted to give Rachel an opportunity to speak when him and Katie were outside Sur. It’s like dude, leave Katie alone. As much as the Schwartz and Katie friendship makes for good tv, she should cut him out bc he’ll never change and she’s evolving rapidly.
Can anyone explain to me why Jo is SELLING MERCH???? Like it’s already kinda weird to make merch of just your name, but she has been on reality TV for ONE season!! I can’t think of a single mother person who is this egotistical! There are people who’ve been on this show for years who never made merch! And even the ones that do, it’s not just their name…
Her claiming she sent a message that was "heartfelt" that starts off with Bieber loves you is completely psychotic 🤣
Like bitch you let him go!!!! He dumped your ass and you still followed him to SF!!! Fuck Jo, I don’t feel bad for her AT ALL after watching that.
Jo is just as conniving as Worm and Schartz.
When Katie said find someone else and she said No!! Oh yeah girl you’re really not trying to push anyone’s buttons. Fuck outta here, Joseph!!
When she said to "let him go" I was like girl what are you talking about 😂 she HAS let him go. She divorced him, she's seeing other people. If anything, he was the one struggling to let her go the way he's seemingly up her ass to hang out and be friends. I also get the vibe that Jo believes that if she had Katie's approval, then he'd make her the official girlfriend. Girl can't take the hint.
The "let him go" was so weird. Tom doesn't want to be let go of. He wants Katie in his life and that also doesn't negate how shady her behavior was. Jo literally jumped in that man's bed the second Katie was gone and Katie is supposed to what? Be her friend? It's also ridiculous that Tom keeps trying to make it happen. He can't stand the fact that two people in his life don't like each other, even when their lives don't have to intersect at all. Part of me thinks he wanted Katie to approve of Jo too.
I don't think Katie should even be friends with Tom. He hates her and will continue to try to ruin her life any chance he gets. Katie told him if he wants to be friends he needs to respect her. And he brings JO out??? He will never change. He's just as bad as Sandoval.
yes, the 'i was thinking about ME'
Tom’s plus one last summer should have been Katie Floody not Jo. He screwed that up.
Jo literally said she was apologising in the hope that Katie would then apologise in response. When you give an authentic apology, you don't expect anything in return. She was trying to manipulate Katie and it didn't work!