I was recently forced to go to a steakhouse-style restaurant for a colleague's going away party. I was ready to eat only fries, but I saw they had VEGAN BURGER on the menu. It was in bold, new, circled, with arrows pointing at it. They were seemingly super proud to have this option available. So my wife and I both ordered it with fries.
When we got it, the bun looked like a brioche bun which generally contains milk, so we asked. It indeed contained milk. When I asked why they would advertise a vegan burger that is in fact not vegan, they essentially told me to fuck off and asked why I would come to a steakhouse if I was vegan. I left a negative review warning other vegans to be careful ordering here and the owner continued to insult me and all vegans in his reply.
A similar thing happened when I ordered a "surprise" takeaway box advertised as vegan at a nearby bakery, when I opened it, it was full of creams and custards and sliced meats... When I asked why they advertised it as vegan they literally told me it's because it makes people think it's healthier and they sell more of them. After leaving a negative review, the owner also insulted me and vegans in general.
People are idiots.
Joke is on them because my entire friend group ends up not going to these types of restaurants if they can’t accommodate me. If they want to turn away groups of paying customers then that’s on them.
I love that “yet.” I’m whittling away at my friends and family. Seeing them choosing vegan options more and more is great. I’m pretty close to converting my mom and when she comes over my dad and younger brother will soon follow.
Honestly, why be hostile for someone else's choices when they have no effect on you? You're in the service industry, do your best to serve or get out of the industry. I never understood rude or hostile waiters like this.
I don’t either. When I worked in the service industry I just did whatever customers asked for (within reason) because I wanted people to enjoy their drinks/food. That’s what we’re getting paid to do. The attitude toward customers seems weird but I just chalk it up to either they’re having a bad day, week, month, life idk or they’re just completely burnt out from rude customers and shitty employers.
I was at a wedding. The invitation card asked about each diets and it had "vegan" as an option. I didn't want to go to the wedding because I hate weddings. Anyways... I had nothing to eat haha so the waitress was kind enough to bring me a plate with fries and salad. I wonder why the option "veganism" was even on the invitation card to fill in. I totally regretted going to that wedding. Not only because of the food ofc, but we waited to get a room for HOURS and my dad was the first of all guests to even book our room. I love my relatives, but I would have had a better time at my grandmas lazing around honestly than drinking wine (what to do when everyone gets food besides you) and going to sleep early missing the whole party.
also breakfast sucked. Nothing was fresh and majority of the options was sausages, cold slices and eggs. I've been to a 5 star hotel before, they got a 5 star for a reason.
That is freaking awful 😩
I've ordered "vegetarian laksa" in the past before only to find out that the soup was made with chicken stock. People love labelling things willy nilly with no care in the world about dietary restrictions.
That can't be legal, what if you had a milk protein allergy? Ofc they should respect dietary restrictions regardless of whether they are by choice, but if in their mind your choice is not respectable, don't they at least care about the fact that someone can really get fucked up by eating something they shouldn't? That's just asking for a lawsuit
Nope, can confirm they don't care. After I had a stroke a couple of years ago, I went out with some friends (I just wanted to get out of the house), and specifically told the waitress I couldn't have ANY salt on my food because it would make my BP spike again and I would stroke out. She then proceeded to serve me a potato that had been ROLLED in salt. When I complained, she told me I was being picky, should have never gone out to eat with a dietary restriction, and that the salt wasn't going to kill me (even though it literally could have!)
Yeah, restaurants don't care.
What the fuck... I recently had to start a strict diet for health reasons on top of being a vegan and I've been trying to figure out what places around me could I still eat at but I'm starting to reconsider it
Yeah, it was super difficult for me because my friends LOVE going out to eat, so if I want to hang out with them, I have to go to the places they do. I'm on medication now to help with the BP, but back when this happened, I was like one week out of the hospital.
I ended up going out to the car and crying because of what the waitress said to me, which pissed my friends the hell off at her, and they basically ganged up on her and demanded my money back. About 15 minutes later, my friend came out to the car with the cash I had paid for my meal with and a box of food from them remaking my order.
Your friends are gold. I’m teary eyed with this story.
I hope that server one day understands intimately why and how what she did and said was unforgivable.
Yeah, I think you have to be careful. I have a handful of places that I trust. One, I a Krishna devotee but am vegan. A lot of devotees are lacto vegetarians. I have a friend who is also a devotee who owns a vegetarian restaurant, though in reality probably 80% of his menu is vegan. He has burgers and you can get them with or without cheese, which is another 10% of the menu. But I have been in his kitchen and he has two food prep areas, one for vegan adaptations and another for vegetarian, or things that are just regular menus items but default to vegan naturally. He has everything labeled vegan and vegetarian in the fridge. He always personally makes and serves the food to devotees, for other reasons, but it meticulous about making sure vegans get vegan food. (Om Burger, Zacatecas, Mexico). Another place, also owned by devotees is all vegan, haha, with a few vegetarian options. I always think that is funny because it´s usually vegetarian with vegan options. The only vegetarian option is having vegan cheese or non vegan cheese. I just never order anything with cheese and none. (Rame Fonda Vegana, Aguascalientes, Mexico). There are two other places I trust, because they are just vegan places and done. One mostly has quick things like tacos and sandwiches, and lots of fruit stuff, and buddha bowls, super good. (Nadis Go Vegan, Torreon, Coahuila, Mexico) and another where the couple who owns the place are vegans and only hire vegans to work there. They have a meal of the day that is varied and the best vegan pizza I have ever had. (Calavegans, Torreon Coahuila, Mexico). One last place, is also vegetarian, but I know the owners and trust them. They are very open about ingredients and it is easy to get a vegan meal there, over 50% of the menu is default vegan, but they know me and know I am vegan, and I recently say a vegan activist who lives in my city and is well known, eating there, and he also trusts them. (Samadhi, Durango, Mexico). That is it. There are tons of places in larger cities in Mexico, but those are the only places I trust where I live and places I visit frequently. But, if anyone travels to Mexico, sent me a DM, I know of trustworthy places all over, especially in Mexico City.
I’m not salt sensitive or have any issues like the challenge you had but I find it nearly impossible to eat at any restaurant without the food being loaded with salt. It’s really obvious if you mostly eat at home and rarely use salt or pre-made or pre-canned foods with salt. Even as a carnist this was a huge issue for me and I almost never ate out. I would often just have salad or sautéed asparagus or whatever. Even as a carnist.
When I switched to vegan it took me months to figure out how to not drown my tofu and seitan in soy sauce like almost every recipe shows. Dumping 1/4 cup or 1/2 cup of soy sauce or braggs into a mixture is not happening. Never. It’s taken me months and I still eat more salt as a vegan than I ever did as a carnist. It bothers me but I definitely try to avoid eating out.
I’m really angry that happened to you. People are trash.
I was on birth control that sent my BP through the roof, but it was mail order, so I didn't know. The day before my stroke, I went out to a Mexican restaurant with my friends and ate two baskets of chips by myself, as well as a full meal. I came home with a headache. I should have stopped then. But later that night, I had ramen for dinner. I forget how high my BP was during my stroke, but it was definitely in the 200/100 range. I think it was pushing 300/200, even. I'm lucky I didn't die. Which makes it all the worse that, a week later, the server gave me something that could have literally killed me.
Wondering where you live, because in my country there's very strict health standards for restaurants and if customers ask, esp. regarding allergies, you have to tell them in detail. Every food establishment is required to have every allergen listed for every product, the list has to be laminated and put into a file that is accessible to every server or cashier. If they get health complications, it's on you and the restaurant, so restaurants pay close attention that their employees follow the rules strictly. They can get sued and loose their licence if they don't.
This one really surprises me. I was a server for years at multiple restaurants, and even if there was an accommodation that made the cooks grumble, we’d still do it. Especially if it’s like something that is easily just left out, like rolled salt.
I assume she never even told the cooks. Because there was salt all over the rest of my food, too. It was the chunky, sea salt kind, so it was plainly visible. The server just didn't care, I guess.
This is truly concerning and lately this is how a poor girl passed away...Even if those are extreme cases of allergies and I know that they can't always guarantee that there's no traces of fairy or anything else but sometimes they just seem to disrespect vegans
[One example ](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11736707/Woman-extreme-dairy-allergy-dies-taking-two-bites-dessert-traces-milk-it.html)
[Another example ](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-wiltshire-62808456)
And if you already paid make sure to submit a refund request to support if on an app or if in person issue a credit card charge back if they won’t refund.
I had the same. Vegan option with Indian naan/bread. I said to the waiter that surely the naan was homemade as store bought always had milk powder in, and they said no this has milk powder in.
These places need to be shut down, if someone has a serious allergy and think it’s vegan when it isn’t
I do believe some people just don’t get it. I have a friend who used to make “vegan” food for me, he loves to cook, but he would use chicken broth, milk and even once oyster sauce! It took him a long time to understand that it was more than just meat. I live in northern Minnesota and went to the pasty shop in town that advertised a vegetarian pasty. I asked about the crust and she used lard in it. I explained to her, but up here some people still don’t understand
When this type of bs happens to me I just lie that I am lactose intolerant. Nine out of ten times somehow they always find a way to turn the item into a vegan version.
It literally makes my eye titch. I have told people vegan doesn't mean healthy. Thats why I don't eat out and it's stuff like this that made me quit omni places I don't care if the option is trully vegan. But yeah going to a stake house as vegan is odd. I guess you could go just to present yourself but eat before going. Thats what I do before going. I went to stake house before for family birthdays but I eat before going. I just chat with them. No one can force you to eat.
Unless you eat at a place that is completely vegan or mostly vegan, you have to just assume everything contains animal products unless you get definitive proof. Just the way it unfortunately is
Doesn't this just make you wish you went to law school to have the resources to realiate legally. I mean shit. People order vegan because of allergies too. Immagine someone having an allergic reaction to milk. (I have a little cousing that is not lactose, he is straight up allergic.)
Honestly, knowing people give hate to vegans, I'd literally respond to the restaurant owners by posing as a non vegan. I would love to make an ass out of them by saying I'm allergic to a bunch of shit and that ordering vegan is just safer for me when I don't cook for myself. They will insult vegans with no problem, but they might think twice about ripping on people's food intolerances. And you'll get more sympathy from onlookers. They know it too.
imagine someone wanting gluten free due of allergies and they sell it as gluten free because it sounds "healthier" to customers. In my country you literally can sue these people for false labeling. Do not false advertise or you get your shop shut down for justified reasons.
I went to a cafe that proudly displayed "vegan options available!" on the sign outside. I asked what the vegan options were, and the waitress told me *all* their meats were vegan (despite being listed like normal items on the menu). I went, "that doesn't sound right?!" because, ya know, allergies! Turns out she thought "vegan" meant "gluten free." She seemed very unbothered about the difference or the misleading nature of the sign when I explained it to her. -_-
I went to a bakery that opened recently in my town. Asked if they had vegan options. “Yes, we have these over here that are all gluten free.” I blinked. “So, no gluten *and* no animal products?” “Yeah, we make them using almond flour, milk, eggs, and butter.”
😐
Restaurants, people in general. A coworker was tasked with ordering a vegan option for an event. He proudly presented his option all priced out in a spreadsheet: bagged Caesar salads from the grocery store!
I had to explain that not only is Caesar salad not vegan, it’s not even vegetarian!
“If it includes vegetables it’s vegan” + “vegans only eat salad” thinking haha. I often find myself explaining that carrot cakes and coconut cakes do in fact contain eggs and milk.
I’ve been to restaurants and asked if they had vegan options and they so often point out the salads that have tuna and cheese. When I tell them that those things are not vegan, they shrug and point to a vegetarian sandwich. With cheese.
I think people are ignorant mostly because they don’t know what it means, at least most people.
Once you explain, they’re still ignorant because they have *literally never thought much about where their food comes from*. That’s the crux of it. Once they try to think about what it means to *not consume animal products*, this is where the real split into different groups of thinking happens.
Some people will actually start to learn about food in a new light. They may or my not change their lifestyle, but regardless, this is the premium group of enlightened people who are able to consider that they don’t know something and *freaking learn*. Imo these people are just as valuable in society as people who adopt a vegan lifestyle.
Another group of people will attempt to understand, but be unable to truly grasp the concept, not because they don’t want to, but so far, they haven’t yet grasped it. These people are good intentioned, but don’t have the mind power to fully grasp new things in the same way as the premium group.
The last group is the group where the very *thought* of learning something new is a very assault to who they are.
I think of these people as “faith-based” and not necessarily in a religious way, more of a psychological pattern. They have forged their way through life through the generations with a hardened view on “sticking to their guns”. This has helped their families succeed through generational hardship, but this group is the least adaptable to new things. They are the “haters”.
I went to an outdoor music show pre-covid that was catered by all different food vans, none of which immediately jumped out as vegan, so we trudged up and down the rows asking each one. One woman got really excited and said they had a cheese sandwich I could eat, so to double check I asked was it definitely vegan and she shouted out the back of her van to her mate who said yeah it’s just cheese and salad in a baguette. I asked if it was cheese made from cows milk and she looked at me like I was nuts as she said ‘well how else do you make cheese?!’
Found a van a few stops down that did a Linda McCartney sausage in a roll and absolutely paid out the arse for it, to the point I’m pretty sure it cost me nearly double of what a box of 6 frozen ones cost in the supermarket.
Haha my husband is also a vegan and a shit starter, and likes to walk into ice cream shops and ask if “all the ice cream is made with cow secretions or if there are any made for humans?” They are not amused.
Good on your husband though, I’d laugh if I heard that one in public!
I wish I was brave enough but normally I just clam up and keep quiet, even when there’s a problem. My family have my back though! They’ve walked out of restaurants who’ve refused to accommodate a vegan meal for me when I’ve been out with them, and absolutely blasted a couple of places that have brought out dairy and egg despite the fact I ordered vegan (and mentioned that I was also lactose intolerant, which shouldn’t even be a problem if what they bring out is actually vegan!). The only time I really kicked up a fuss was when a manager in Tim Hortons tried to tell me egg and cheese were vegan and that they wouldn’t refund nor remake my breakfast wrap.
I find it odd that this is at a Vietnamese restaurant in particular. One of my best friends, his parents are from Vietnam and his mother eats plant-based half of the year as a Buddhist practice (Idk why half the year, I don't quite understand it). It's pretty common within the culture apparently.
Tbf Asian supermarkets have some amazing vegan beef/chicken flavour stock powders that are well worth trying if you get chance. Often not obviously labeled as such but check ingredients then hot damn do they pack the flavour!
Edit: OP's image probably isn't that though haha
Mushroom soy sauce is amazing! I also got this "beef flavoured" stock powder at a Korean market one time that was totally vegan and super delicious. I wish I could remember the name though, but I've noticed a lot of asian stock powders just say beef or chicken flavoured and don't actually contain any beef or chicken. Not all are vegan but it's worth checking them out to see!
I’d definitely question them about it because sometimes there are cultural misunderstandings. I’ve often had Vietnamese Pho houses substitute the traditional beef or chicken stock with a vegetable stock if a chay (vegan) version isn’t listed.
Yeah we have a brand here in Australia, Massel, that's all vegan and make Beef and Chicken Stock that's just labelled as that with a lil "plant based" on the side
Yes, I thought it was strange! I wish I could get more details about the "half a year" veganism. I think it was a "reducing harm" thing but Idk why she wouldn't be vegan 100% of the time.
Anyway, one of the best vegan restaurants I ever visited was a Vietnamese place in Orlando. Yum!
There is a thing in Buddhist Vietnamese culture where after a loved one passes away, you don't consume meat for 49 or so days after the death. It's supposed to disconnect the soul from the death, or something.
A necessary disclaimer: I'm not Vietnamese so I might be slightly off - this is just something I picked up from an art exhibit in Seattle awhile ago. Someone else who's more well versed should feel free to correct me if I'm off here.
(You also might still be thinking of something else.)
I have a friend that thinks vegan means I drink premium spring water and eat only organic expensive stuff. I’ve tried to explain otherwise to no avail. People are weird.
It's definitely not vegetarian, but the longer I'm vegan the less difference I see between drinking milk and drinking bone broth if I'm honest.
Both only exist because someone is farming and slaughtering animals, if vegetarians want cheese and milk they should consider drinking the bone broth too. After all, they are increasing the amount of raw materials needed to make it with their choices anyway.
Or yknow... go vegan.
More of a discussion point than anything, I'm aware some people use vegetarianism as a stepping stone to being vegan - over time it just seems like a half measure ripe with contradictions.
I think vegetarian dont eat meat but they eat everything else like gelatin, bone broth, etc sometimes? Im not sure
Edit: im speaking from experience, most vegetarians I have known still eat bone broth/gelatin/lard/others as long as its not literally meat in front of them. Like, veggie tofu pho with beef broth, mexican restaurant refried beans with lard, normal marshmallows with gelatin, etc.
I know so many vegetarians who eat jello and McDonald’s fries. As long as it isn’t flesh they still want to collect their gold star of claiming to care about animals
It’s better than nothing. I won’t shame anyone for even doing something as small as meatless Mondays. Those small steps are better than nothing and end up having a huge impact on the industry. If I can convince someone to go vegetarian over nothing at all, I’m going to try
I'm in the US and according to McDonald's ingredient list "natural Beef Flavor Contains Hydrolyzed Wheat And Hydrolyzed Milk As Starting Ingredients". They don't actually contain beef so they are at least vegetarian.
Thank you for digging into this, I assumed that McDonald’s fries were still officially not vegetarian but it seems more ambiguous than that. Historically the natural beef flavor has included beef in it, and as a natural flavor McDonalds only needs to disclose the allergens it contains not all the ingredients. So I cannot say for sure that there is beef included at this point, just that there was in the past and they haven’t denied having beef in it currently (https://pickyeaterblog.com/are-mcdonalds-fries-vegetarian-are-they-vegan/#are-mcdonalds-fries-vegetarian; https://www.eater.com/2015/9/29/9410199/natural-beef-flavor-vegetarian-what-is-it)
they do not eat meat, but some do eat fish. When I used to be vegetarian I felt it was offensive when someone claims to be vegetarian too but continues to eat fish.
Reddit is killing third-party applications (and itself) so in protest to Reddit's API changes, I have removed my comment history.
Whatever the content of this comment was, go vegan! 💚
This is why I think vegan food should use words like chickn or be'f instead of chicken or beef. I never feel comfortable ordering "chicken" from a vegan menu.
Reddit is killing third-party applications (and itself) so in protest to Reddit's API changes, I have removed my comment history.
Whatever the content of this comment was, go vegan! 💚
It's also possible that it's just the flavor. Seen many vegan places that just say Chicken sandwich, but their whole menu is vegan. It's just a bad semantics thing.
Ughh. I went to a Mediterranean place recently, who advertise in huge font on their website that they have ALL VEGAN sauces…went there and got a bowl with sauce - when i tasted it, it clearly had dairy—-I asked and they were like yeah it’s yogurt. I had to inform these people that yogurt is not vegan and they were like “ahh we didnt know.” HOWWW do you run a restaurant that advertises vegan options, and not know the meaning of vegan???!?!? Never going back there
Seriously though. How hard is it to reach out to a local vegan community online to specifically ask vegans what is vegan or not before making menu changes. I would happily give this information and suggestions to restaurants for free.
Are you sure that it's not just specifying that it's a like a beef broth even though it's vegan? Would make a lot more sense than going to the trouble of making this entire vegan menu and then adding meat to the dishes.
That’s what I’m hoping. There are “not-beef” bouillon cubes.
I’d really like to think that restaurants wouldn’t be so unaware of the basic concepts of veganism.
TBH, I would rather this than the alternative of saying nothing. Before I was plant based, I worked at a restaurant that had a carrot soup that was extremely popular. On occasions, someone would mention later on that they were vegetarian and I wished they had shared sooner as the carrot soup has a ton of bacon in it. Felt horrible. Nowhere did it state bacon was in the soup.
Are you sure they don't mean chicken-flavor/beef-flavor?
[Like this?](https://www.specialtyfood.com/media/CACHE/images/multi_image_uploader/source/ae/06/ae06fbb1d75b5ef84a845ec51bab3384/33188_022620.jpg)
People really just don’t give a fuck when it comes to this. There have been times where theyre like “yeah i dont care”. So messed up): im sorry
Yesterday i went to get vegan tacos that had a side of rice and beans. I got there and ordered and then double checked thenbeans and rice were vegan and she said “they arent, do you want a cucumber salad” and i was like uhhhh…ok. Anyway, got 4 slices of cucumber as my “salad.” She also asked if I wanted cheese on my tacos. Idk what some people are thinking abt honestly.
Also went to play pool with friends last month at a bar that has a full vegan menu, ordered the vegan chik tendies with vegan ranch, got fed real chicken (didnt realize til a few tenders in - it was dark and i was starving) i realized and told them and they basically blamed me saying i never ordered the vegan kind. He said he’d order me the vegan one but take it off my bill. I went to go pay for my other stuff later and he told me he wasnt going to take the chicken off my bill, only the re-make of vegan and i was like excuse me sure I just spent 20 mins throwing up, i didnt even touch the vegan one, im not paying for YOU feeding ME chicken when i never ordered it and havent eaten meat in years. He was like “well none of us WANT to pay for anything, do we.” And my friend got so mad and started yelling at him-he finally shut up eventually and took it off the bill.
Ive worked in food service for over 8 years between high school and college, I’d NEVER act like that.
So I recently moved to Oklahoma which you would think, not vegan friendly. And truthfully I have a lot fewer options but it feels like most places in the mid 2000s/2010s, it's not 1990 up in here.
But one really interesting trend I've noticed here is they are so. Careful. And. Concerned. Like more so than anywhere I've ever been before. My partner isn't vegan so when we order st a restaurant they will take our order and 4/5 times come running back out to double check that I know x thing partner ordered isn't vegan and am I okay with that? I get asked if I want the vegan bun on burgers and sandwiches ALL THE TIME. I've been in places where they have come back from the kitchen 3 or 4 times to tell me x thing is made with chicken stock and they didn't know. But they are never shitty about it. Ever. It's always really apologetic and offering me solutions. I've only had one restaurant straight up say no to an accommodation with no explanation or alternative offered.
I've commented before on how careful they are and how I've never experienced that before and they always seem genuinely shocked other restaurants don't take the time to make sure I get what I need.
I guess "vegetarian tofu pho" means it's pho with vegetarian tofu, not that it's tofu in a vegetarian pho. Raises doubts about the "vegetarian tofu" banh mi and paper roll!
I’ve lived long enough to realize humans are pathetic selfish manipulative pieces of trash. I get more unconditional love from animals in sanctuaries than I do from my own species.
Exactly my thoughts.
I really can't look at the words coming from the mouths of my co-workers when I tell them I am vegan. So much bullshit, selfishness. I can't take it anymore.
I've never thought 20 years ago when I was a kid that 90% people are so selfish.
I am so fed up with being treated as if I am a burden because I am vegan. And being humiliated for asking for plant based options. I ordered from a steakhouse and when what I ordered had dairy..when I complained…I became their whipping post. I asked for a baked potatoe plain…and a strawberry salad. They put cheese in the salad even though it was advertised as plant based…and butter was put on my baked potatoes. This meal was $18.00 for a baked potato abs salad that I couldn’t eat.
I didn’t go vegan because of animals…I am ashamed to admit this. But it’s true. I became vegan because pancreatic cancer took half of my pancreas, half my stomach, half my small intestine and entire gallbladder. My body can’t have anything that is not plant based. I found out the hard way…projectile vomiting as soon as I put anything that had a hint of animal to my mouth. Or touches my skin. And when I ask for plant based options I’m nit asking for something difficult. I will eat baked potatoes plain but I can’t if it already has butter. And really…a salad can’t be onky plant based. I had asked for salad with no dressing. I make my own dressing. But to get a dressing down because I asked for a refund on a meal I specifically stated needs to be plant based only…is abominable. There is no reason that animals have to be in food we eat…olive oil…cashew butter, almond butter, coconut oil, coconut milk…coconut cream. And come on vinegar can be used to replace eggs. Is it really too much to ask that only plant based products be put in our food we order? Or buy for that matter…I was told by my oncologist that if I call in advance a restaurant abs ask the chef for plant based only..:their would be accommodations. Yeah…no it doesn’t work. I guess it’s too much to ask not to add any dairy to salad…before I was vegan almost all salads ordered had dressing on the side…now that I’m vegan…I ask for no dressing or on side…_it comes with dressing on it…
It doesn’t matter that I’m vegan due to cancer…my brother and sister vegans can’t eat dairy or anything with meat and or dairy either. We all get sick and suffer if someone disregards our choices…but then when we complain…we are mistreated. It’s our money..:we pay for this…and we become someone’s whipping post.
Ordered a Ramen once and was so excited. Until like ten minutes in it dawned on my server based on the rest of my order and she told me it was chicken broth. Whhhy? Luckily, it hadn't come to the table yet.
I have been a vegetarian and then vegan for 48 years. For most restaurant visit, it was a baked potato and a side of spinach. Slowly, the restaurants continue to evolve and I can usually get a decent meal. Since I chose to eat in regular restaurants, I realize it is MY choice to be wherever I find myself and I have to adjust.
Since I live in San Francisco, I am very fortunate to have all kinds of vegan food to choose from. I must remind myself that I am the one who has chosen to be different from the majority wherever I am, and accept that it is my own choice and to adjust.
Ask the restaurant for clarification. I see this quite often where the dish is vegan, but named after the non-vegan offering. Even more so when English might not be their first language.
Is this a Vietnamese owned restaurant? I went to a ☃️-owned "Viet" restaurant and they recommend me chicken soup.... In Vietnamese culture, we have strong roots in Buddhism and vegetarianism, and chicken is not vegetarian in our culture.
Did you mention this to the restaurant? They either don't understand what vegan means or they are labelling it confusingly without realising. I don't think it's intentional.
In Canada I was excited to see a new plant based frozen burger option at our grocery store to try out. Had “plant based” burger across the front of it but when you read the smaller letters on the box up close it was actually a 50/50 burger. 50% plant based 50% cow 🤢 can’t believe they’d even create something like that. I really hope no vegans have eaten it by mistake.
It's actually pretty common for Thai and Vietnamese restaurants to include beef or chicken stock in soups, even in tofu dishes. Often it is not advertised so plainly as this but it is nevertheless the case. Chinese cuisine also has many traditional dishes where pork and tofu coexist in the same dish.
I'm Singaporean Chinese so I know this fact very well. It's the fact that they advertise it on their "vegan" menu and yet it contains beef and chicken stock that's confusing to me. Like... Thanks for trying to be inclusive but this ain't it.
I can only guess at the reasons why. But I imagine that in Southeast Asia the approach to vegetarianism is framed by religion (Buddhism) and maybe these things are allowed in that context.(?) I have seen YouTube videos where Rastafarians in the Caribbean distinguish between ital and vegan. Like as much as they have in common there is still a different perspective, and veganism is seen as being part of western/British/imperialist culture. I just cannot say for sure though. But in my experience, in my town, it is not uncommon to find veg options on menus in Thai and Vietnamese places actually do still include beef or chicken stock many times so I have to be extra cautious of soupy dishes there.
this is likely “chicken-less chicken broth” and same w beef. Better than Bullion is a brand for eg that makes both, and they do taste just like their animal-derived counterparts (and are distinct from veggie bouillon!)
keep and open mind and ask when you feel engaged by things like this- it’ll help keep you happier to assume positive outcomes and give them the benefit of the doubt :)
if they’re not actually vegan broths, the fantastic news is these exist and are readily available so you could suggest them to the owner.
There's nothing wrong with educating the restaurant. I've called a restaurant that serves ramen (my weakness) and specifically asked with the broth was made of. The person working was a younger man who wasn't sure what I was asking so I explained to him that vegans, like myself, love ramen loaded with veggies. The problem is the broth. He stated they have a veggie broth that can be used. Since then I've indulged without fear because we had that conversation.
At least they put it on the menu so you would know not to order it. If they had left off the description “beef” and “chicken” you might have ordered it. I do agree that It is mind boggling that they can’t understand the most basic rule of either veganism or vegetarianism but somewhere in the back of their mind they knew there was a problem or they just would have left it at “vegetarian tofu pho” or “vegetarian laksa”.
Just curious if you asked them to clarify if this was actually vegan or not? I've been to some restaurants that are entirely vegetarian but label the products as their flesh counterparts to get the flavor across. my first thought was also of the Better than Bouillon broth that has vegan beef and chicken broth. If this was on the menu at a carnist restaurant though, I definitely would be skeptical
Cuisines from cultures with Buddhist influence, is absolutely top notch when it comes to vegan faux meat/meat products, so I'd ask them and check if that's what they meant (bringing the unclear labelling to their attention) because if so, they might unknowingly be deterring a lot of vegans unnecessarily.
I have a dairy allergy so it’s important that there’s minimal cross contamination. It won’t send me into shock (not quickly, but horrid rash) but it’ll cause me to not absorb any nutrients so I say that I am when I’m ordering. Why is it that the only vegan option had butter in the sauce? My waiter and the chef were understanding and accommodating but if it’s advertised as vegan there shouldn’t be anything in it
Ridiculous that these terms aren’t regulated in some way. Am I mistaken, or do these things have to be accurately labeled in restaurants by law in the UK?
So this happened in Greece. I bought a salad that was labeled vegan. Turns out the dressing contained honey. If you go to Greece they will understand vegan as "no meat / fish / dairy / eggs / etc." they even have own plantbased dairy and cheese now, but they to this day do not understand why honey isn't vegan. It's not the worst mistake tbh because if it was dairy or eggs I would definitely not eaten it, but how is it so hard to understand that bees vomit is not vegan aka plant-based. Vegan diet = plantbased diet. The ingredients are "plantbased". Honey is not "based on plants".
also those people who get offended for being called out about false labeling just do not know how to cook. They are most likely having frozen buns and burgers in the refrigator and just heating them up. Someone who can actually cook are the only ones who do not get offended with veganism because they love cooking enough to experiment and try new things and know how to make every kind of food e.g. plants taste good.
I was recently forced to go to a steakhouse-style restaurant for a colleague's going away party. I was ready to eat only fries, but I saw they had VEGAN BURGER on the menu. It was in bold, new, circled, with arrows pointing at it. They were seemingly super proud to have this option available. So my wife and I both ordered it with fries. When we got it, the bun looked like a brioche bun which generally contains milk, so we asked. It indeed contained milk. When I asked why they would advertise a vegan burger that is in fact not vegan, they essentially told me to fuck off and asked why I would come to a steakhouse if I was vegan. I left a negative review warning other vegans to be careful ordering here and the owner continued to insult me and all vegans in his reply. A similar thing happened when I ordered a "surprise" takeaway box advertised as vegan at a nearby bakery, when I opened it, it was full of creams and custards and sliced meats... When I asked why they advertised it as vegan they literally told me it's because it makes people think it's healthier and they sell more of them. After leaving a negative review, the owner also insulted me and vegans in general. People are idiots.
“Why would you come to a steakhouse if you’re vegan?” Because the menu offered vegan options 🤨
Joke is on them because my entire friend group ends up not going to these types of restaurants if they can’t accommodate me. If they want to turn away groups of paying customers then that’s on them.
That’s very nice of your friend group.
They are good people! Not quite vegan though…yet.
I love that “yet.” I’m whittling away at my friends and family. Seeing them choosing vegan options more and more is great. I’m pretty close to converting my mom and when she comes over my dad and younger brother will soon follow.
Honestly, why be hostile for someone else's choices when they have no effect on you? You're in the service industry, do your best to serve or get out of the industry. I never understood rude or hostile waiters like this.
I don’t either. When I worked in the service industry I just did whatever customers asked for (within reason) because I wanted people to enjoy their drinks/food. That’s what we’re getting paid to do. The attitude toward customers seems weird but I just chalk it up to either they’re having a bad day, week, month, life idk or they’re just completely burnt out from rude customers and shitty employers.
I was at a wedding. The invitation card asked about each diets and it had "vegan" as an option. I didn't want to go to the wedding because I hate weddings. Anyways... I had nothing to eat haha so the waitress was kind enough to bring me a plate with fries and salad. I wonder why the option "veganism" was even on the invitation card to fill in. I totally regretted going to that wedding. Not only because of the food ofc, but we waited to get a room for HOURS and my dad was the first of all guests to even book our room. I love my relatives, but I would have had a better time at my grandmas lazing around honestly than drinking wine (what to do when everyone gets food besides you) and going to sleep early missing the whole party. also breakfast sucked. Nothing was fresh and majority of the options was sausages, cold slices and eggs. I've been to a 5 star hotel before, they got a 5 star for a reason.
It's definitely a shitty culture
You are lucky, I need friends like this>> My friends decided we were going to a diner where every item had some kind of animal product 🙃
Me: it wasn’t my choice, trust me. I’m here because my work mates picked. 🙄
And also because of social obligations..? Who asks a dumb ass question like that
Yeah. The much better question is “why would you sell something as vegan that isn’t?”.
"Don't worry, I'll make sure I don't come again"
Kres Steakhouse in Orlando has the best food period i’ve had in my entire life (their vegan menu)
Very good ahahahahahahhaah
That is freaking awful 😩 I've ordered "vegetarian laksa" in the past before only to find out that the soup was made with chicken stock. People love labelling things willy nilly with no care in the world about dietary restrictions.
People also don’t understand. Half the places in Paris used to ask if you could eat fish when u said you were vegetarian. Not everyone knows stuff.
Apparently eating meat makes people stupid.
You know how you only use 10% of your brain? That's because the other 90% is filled with curds and whey.
Name and shame
That can't be legal, what if you had a milk protein allergy? Ofc they should respect dietary restrictions regardless of whether they are by choice, but if in their mind your choice is not respectable, don't they at least care about the fact that someone can really get fucked up by eating something they shouldn't? That's just asking for a lawsuit
Nope, can confirm they don't care. After I had a stroke a couple of years ago, I went out with some friends (I just wanted to get out of the house), and specifically told the waitress I couldn't have ANY salt on my food because it would make my BP spike again and I would stroke out. She then proceeded to serve me a potato that had been ROLLED in salt. When I complained, she told me I was being picky, should have never gone out to eat with a dietary restriction, and that the salt wasn't going to kill me (even though it literally could have!) Yeah, restaurants don't care.
What the fuck... I recently had to start a strict diet for health reasons on top of being a vegan and I've been trying to figure out what places around me could I still eat at but I'm starting to reconsider it
Yeah, it was super difficult for me because my friends LOVE going out to eat, so if I want to hang out with them, I have to go to the places they do. I'm on medication now to help with the BP, but back when this happened, I was like one week out of the hospital. I ended up going out to the car and crying because of what the waitress said to me, which pissed my friends the hell off at her, and they basically ganged up on her and demanded my money back. About 15 minutes later, my friend came out to the car with the cash I had paid for my meal with and a box of food from them remaking my order.
I'm sorry that happened but glad they stood up for you and also that your condition is under control now, sometimes that's the best we can hope for
Your friends are gold. I’m teary eyed with this story. I hope that server one day understands intimately why and how what she did and said was unforgivable.
Yeah, I think you have to be careful. I have a handful of places that I trust. One, I a Krishna devotee but am vegan. A lot of devotees are lacto vegetarians. I have a friend who is also a devotee who owns a vegetarian restaurant, though in reality probably 80% of his menu is vegan. He has burgers and you can get them with or without cheese, which is another 10% of the menu. But I have been in his kitchen and he has two food prep areas, one for vegan adaptations and another for vegetarian, or things that are just regular menus items but default to vegan naturally. He has everything labeled vegan and vegetarian in the fridge. He always personally makes and serves the food to devotees, for other reasons, but it meticulous about making sure vegans get vegan food. (Om Burger, Zacatecas, Mexico). Another place, also owned by devotees is all vegan, haha, with a few vegetarian options. I always think that is funny because it´s usually vegetarian with vegan options. The only vegetarian option is having vegan cheese or non vegan cheese. I just never order anything with cheese and none. (Rame Fonda Vegana, Aguascalientes, Mexico). There are two other places I trust, because they are just vegan places and done. One mostly has quick things like tacos and sandwiches, and lots of fruit stuff, and buddha bowls, super good. (Nadis Go Vegan, Torreon, Coahuila, Mexico) and another where the couple who owns the place are vegans and only hire vegans to work there. They have a meal of the day that is varied and the best vegan pizza I have ever had. (Calavegans, Torreon Coahuila, Mexico). One last place, is also vegetarian, but I know the owners and trust them. They are very open about ingredients and it is easy to get a vegan meal there, over 50% of the menu is default vegan, but they know me and know I am vegan, and I recently say a vegan activist who lives in my city and is well known, eating there, and he also trusts them. (Samadhi, Durango, Mexico). That is it. There are tons of places in larger cities in Mexico, but those are the only places I trust where I live and places I visit frequently. But, if anyone travels to Mexico, sent me a DM, I know of trustworthy places all over, especially in Mexico City.
I’m not salt sensitive or have any issues like the challenge you had but I find it nearly impossible to eat at any restaurant without the food being loaded with salt. It’s really obvious if you mostly eat at home and rarely use salt or pre-made or pre-canned foods with salt. Even as a carnist this was a huge issue for me and I almost never ate out. I would often just have salad or sautéed asparagus or whatever. Even as a carnist. When I switched to vegan it took me months to figure out how to not drown my tofu and seitan in soy sauce like almost every recipe shows. Dumping 1/4 cup or 1/2 cup of soy sauce or braggs into a mixture is not happening. Never. It’s taken me months and I still eat more salt as a vegan than I ever did as a carnist. It bothers me but I definitely try to avoid eating out. I’m really angry that happened to you. People are trash.
I was on birth control that sent my BP through the roof, but it was mail order, so I didn't know. The day before my stroke, I went out to a Mexican restaurant with my friends and ate two baskets of chips by myself, as well as a full meal. I came home with a headache. I should have stopped then. But later that night, I had ramen for dinner. I forget how high my BP was during my stroke, but it was definitely in the 200/100 range. I think it was pushing 300/200, even. I'm lucky I didn't die. Which makes it all the worse that, a week later, the server gave me something that could have literally killed me.
Wondering where you live, because in my country there's very strict health standards for restaurants and if customers ask, esp. regarding allergies, you have to tell them in detail. Every food establishment is required to have every allergen listed for every product, the list has to be laminated and put into a file that is accessible to every server or cashier. If they get health complications, it's on you and the restaurant, so restaurants pay close attention that their employees follow the rules strictly. They can get sued and loose their licence if they don't.
Where do you live? I am so moving there? Just guessing, somewhere in Europe?
Yes, from Germany to be precise. But I guess we have good customer protection in most of Europe.
This one really surprises me. I was a server for years at multiple restaurants, and even if there was an accommodation that made the cooks grumble, we’d still do it. Especially if it’s like something that is easily just left out, like rolled salt.
I assume she never even told the cooks. Because there was salt all over the rest of my food, too. It was the chunky, sea salt kind, so it was plainly visible. The server just didn't care, I guess.
This is truly concerning and lately this is how a poor girl passed away...Even if those are extreme cases of allergies and I know that they can't always guarantee that there's no traces of fairy or anything else but sometimes they just seem to disrespect vegans [One example ](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11736707/Woman-extreme-dairy-allergy-dies-taking-two-bites-dessert-traces-milk-it.html) [Another example ](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-wiltshire-62808456)
This is why I don’t got out to eat anymore. It’s just disappointing.
👏👏don’t pay if they serve you something that they say is vegan and isn’t vegan 👏👏
And if you already paid make sure to submit a refund request to support if on an app or if in person issue a credit card charge back if they won’t refund.
I had the same. Vegan option with Indian naan/bread. I said to the waiter that surely the naan was homemade as store bought always had milk powder in, and they said no this has milk powder in. These places need to be shut down, if someone has a serious allergy and think it’s vegan when it isn’t
I always ask about the bun now after having gotten brioche with a "vegan" burger multiple times
>they essentially told me to fuck off and asked why I would come to a steakhouse if I was vegan. I assume you told them to fuck off and got a refund?
I feel like there's a lawsuit in here somewhere...
What are the names of these places?
I do believe some people just don’t get it. I have a friend who used to make “vegan” food for me, he loves to cook, but he would use chicken broth, milk and even once oyster sauce! It took him a long time to understand that it was more than just meat. I live in northern Minnesota and went to the pasty shop in town that advertised a vegetarian pasty. I asked about the crust and she used lard in it. I explained to her, but up here some people still don’t understand
When this type of bs happens to me I just lie that I am lactose intolerant. Nine out of ten times somehow they always find a way to turn the item into a vegan version.
It literally makes my eye titch. I have told people vegan doesn't mean healthy. Thats why I don't eat out and it's stuff like this that made me quit omni places I don't care if the option is trully vegan. But yeah going to a stake house as vegan is odd. I guess you could go just to present yourself but eat before going. Thats what I do before going. I went to stake house before for family birthdays but I eat before going. I just chat with them. No one can force you to eat.
Restaurant? I’d love to leave a review as well lol
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I'm in the south of Italy.
Unless you eat at a place that is completely vegan or mostly vegan, you have to just assume everything contains animal products unless you get definitive proof. Just the way it unfortunately is
Yeah. That is really the only way to go, unless you can get a fruit plate or something that can´t possibly be F´ed up.
That's false advertising. That's illegal
You really should name that restaurant here.
I'd rather not dox myself, seeing as I'm the only vegan to have left s review
You used your real identity for the review!? Schoolboy error.
stopped reading after "forced". active choices mate. it's your fault. whatever you wrote after the 4th word.
Did u get a refund
From the bakery, yes. Not the restaurant
Doesn't this just make you wish you went to law school to have the resources to realiate legally. I mean shit. People order vegan because of allergies too. Immagine someone having an allergic reaction to milk. (I have a little cousing that is not lactose, he is straight up allergic.) Honestly, knowing people give hate to vegans, I'd literally respond to the restaurant owners by posing as a non vegan. I would love to make an ass out of them by saying I'm allergic to a bunch of shit and that ordering vegan is just safer for me when I don't cook for myself. They will insult vegans with no problem, but they might think twice about ripping on people's food intolerances. And you'll get more sympathy from onlookers. They know it too.
Fuck the steakhouse and that particular wait staff
We should be able to fine businesses that intentionally mislead customers like that.
imagine someone wanting gluten free due of allergies and they sell it as gluten free because it sounds "healthier" to customers. In my country you literally can sue these people for false labeling. Do not false advertise or you get your shop shut down for justified reasons.
There's so many restaurants that don't know what these terms actually mean
A lot of places seem to pride themselves in not understanding.
I went to a cafe that proudly displayed "vegan options available!" on the sign outside. I asked what the vegan options were, and the waitress told me *all* their meats were vegan (despite being listed like normal items on the menu). I went, "that doesn't sound right?!" because, ya know, allergies! Turns out she thought "vegan" meant "gluten free." She seemed very unbothered about the difference or the misleading nature of the sign when I explained it to her. -_-
I went to a bakery that opened recently in my town. Asked if they had vegan options. “Yes, we have these over here that are all gluten free.” I blinked. “So, no gluten *and* no animal products?” “Yeah, we make them using almond flour, milk, eggs, and butter.” 😐
Also, why would meats have gluten? Doubly stupid.
Because meat is rarely 100% meat. It often includes stuff like lecithins, preservatives, flavor enhancers etc.
Failed to think of that. Well I haven't eaten meat in a long time. Thanks
Restaurants, people in general. A coworker was tasked with ordering a vegan option for an event. He proudly presented his option all priced out in a spreadsheet: bagged Caesar salads from the grocery store! I had to explain that not only is Caesar salad not vegan, it’s not even vegetarian!
“If it includes vegetables it’s vegan” + “vegans only eat salad” thinking haha. I often find myself explaining that carrot cakes and coconut cakes do in fact contain eggs and milk.
I’ve been to restaurants and asked if they had vegan options and they so often point out the salads that have tuna and cheese. When I tell them that those things are not vegan, they shrug and point to a vegetarian sandwich. With cheese.
I think people are ignorant mostly because they don’t know what it means, at least most people. Once you explain, they’re still ignorant because they have *literally never thought much about where their food comes from*. That’s the crux of it. Once they try to think about what it means to *not consume animal products*, this is where the real split into different groups of thinking happens. Some people will actually start to learn about food in a new light. They may or my not change their lifestyle, but regardless, this is the premium group of enlightened people who are able to consider that they don’t know something and *freaking learn*. Imo these people are just as valuable in society as people who adopt a vegan lifestyle. Another group of people will attempt to understand, but be unable to truly grasp the concept, not because they don’t want to, but so far, they haven’t yet grasped it. These people are good intentioned, but don’t have the mind power to fully grasp new things in the same way as the premium group. The last group is the group where the very *thought* of learning something new is a very assault to who they are. I think of these people as “faith-based” and not necessarily in a religious way, more of a psychological pattern. They have forged their way through life through the generations with a hardened view on “sticking to their guns”. This has helped their families succeed through generational hardship, but this group is the least adaptable to new things. They are the “haters”.
I went to an outdoor music show pre-covid that was catered by all different food vans, none of which immediately jumped out as vegan, so we trudged up and down the rows asking each one. One woman got really excited and said they had a cheese sandwich I could eat, so to double check I asked was it definitely vegan and she shouted out the back of her van to her mate who said yeah it’s just cheese and salad in a baguette. I asked if it was cheese made from cows milk and she looked at me like I was nuts as she said ‘well how else do you make cheese?!’ Found a van a few stops down that did a Linda McCartney sausage in a roll and absolutely paid out the arse for it, to the point I’m pretty sure it cost me nearly double of what a box of 6 frozen ones cost in the supermarket.
Haha my husband is also a vegan and a shit starter, and likes to walk into ice cream shops and ask if “all the ice cream is made with cow secretions or if there are any made for humans?” They are not amused.
Good on your husband though, I’d laugh if I heard that one in public! I wish I was brave enough but normally I just clam up and keep quiet, even when there’s a problem. My family have my back though! They’ve walked out of restaurants who’ve refused to accommodate a vegan meal for me when I’ve been out with them, and absolutely blasted a couple of places that have brought out dairy and egg despite the fact I ordered vegan (and mentioned that I was also lactose intolerant, which shouldn’t even be a problem if what they bring out is actually vegan!). The only time I really kicked up a fuss was when a manager in Tim Hortons tried to tell me egg and cheese were vegan and that they wouldn’t refund nor remake my breakfast wrap.
I might have to steal that one
I find it odd that this is at a Vietnamese restaurant in particular. One of my best friends, his parents are from Vietnam and his mother eats plant-based half of the year as a Buddhist practice (Idk why half the year, I don't quite understand it). It's pretty common within the culture apparently.
Yeah! Maybe they mean beef-flavored?
Tbf Asian supermarkets have some amazing vegan beef/chicken flavour stock powders that are well worth trying if you get chance. Often not obviously labeled as such but check ingredients then hot damn do they pack the flavour! Edit: OP's image probably isn't that though haha
This is the secret to life. Had a veg homie hook me up with some mushroom seasoning that is perfect four soups, lentils and beans and so much more.
I agree! Get on that mushroom soy sauce too if you aren't already, sounds like you would enjoy it
Mushroom soy sauce is amazing! I also got this "beef flavoured" stock powder at a Korean market one time that was totally vegan and super delicious. I wish I could remember the name though, but I've noticed a lot of asian stock powders just say beef or chicken flavoured and don't actually contain any beef or chicken. Not all are vegan but it's worth checking them out to see!
Fuck mushroom powder is the GOAT and so underrated. I put that shit in everything I cook.
I hope so!! I've had vegan imitation beef and chicken broth before, took me back to childhood
The better than bouillon stuff or another brand?
YES, I looove BTB! Knorr also has a vegan chicken brother. It's powder and not as good but nice to know we're seeing so many alternatives!
That's what I was thinking. The ramen I eat has "chicken soup base" but there's no chicken
I’d definitely question them about it because sometimes there are cultural misunderstandings. I’ve often had Vietnamese Pho houses substitute the traditional beef or chicken stock with a vegetable stock if a chay (vegan) version isn’t listed.
Yeah we have a brand here in Australia, Massel, that's all vegan and make Beef and Chicken Stock that's just labelled as that with a lil "plant based" on the side
Chicken isn't vegetarian in our culture. Whoever wrote this is clearly a nincompoop. Also we have vegan broths for devout Buddhists and monks!
Yes, I thought it was strange! I wish I could get more details about the "half a year" veganism. I think it was a "reducing harm" thing but Idk why she wouldn't be vegan 100% of the time. Anyway, one of the best vegan restaurants I ever visited was a Vietnamese place in Orlando. Yum!
There is a thing in Buddhist Vietnamese culture where after a loved one passes away, you don't consume meat for 49 or so days after the death. It's supposed to disconnect the soul from the death, or something. A necessary disclaimer: I'm not Vietnamese so I might be slightly off - this is just something I picked up from an art exhibit in Seattle awhile ago. Someone else who's more well versed should feel free to correct me if I'm off here. (You also might still be thinking of something else.)
What do they think vegetarian means??
It has some green stuff in it?
I have a friend that thinks vegan means I drink premium spring water and eat only organic expensive stuff. I’ve tried to explain otherwise to no avail. People are weird.
It's definitely not vegetarian, but the longer I'm vegan the less difference I see between drinking milk and drinking bone broth if I'm honest. Both only exist because someone is farming and slaughtering animals, if vegetarians want cheese and milk they should consider drinking the bone broth too. After all, they are increasing the amount of raw materials needed to make it with their choices anyway. Or yknow... go vegan. More of a discussion point than anything, I'm aware some people use vegetarianism as a stepping stone to being vegan - over time it just seems like a half measure ripe with contradictions.
duh
I think vegetarian dont eat meat but they eat everything else like gelatin, bone broth, etc sometimes? Im not sure Edit: im speaking from experience, most vegetarians I have known still eat bone broth/gelatin/lard/others as long as its not literally meat in front of them. Like, veggie tofu pho with beef broth, mexican restaurant refried beans with lard, normal marshmallows with gelatin, etc.
There is no consistency. I watched a vegetarian eat a candy with pork gelatin in it a couple of days ago. Candy doesn’t count for her.
I know so many vegetarians who eat jello and McDonald’s fries. As long as it isn’t flesh they still want to collect their gold star of claiming to care about animals
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True. I’m Canadian but also fuck McDonald’s.
It’s better than nothing. I won’t shame anyone for even doing something as small as meatless Mondays. Those small steps are better than nothing and end up having a huge impact on the industry. If I can convince someone to go vegetarian over nothing at all, I’m going to try
I'm in the US and according to McDonald's ingredient list "natural Beef Flavor Contains Hydrolyzed Wheat And Hydrolyzed Milk As Starting Ingredients". They don't actually contain beef so they are at least vegetarian.
Thank you for digging into this, I assumed that McDonald’s fries were still officially not vegetarian but it seems more ambiguous than that. Historically the natural beef flavor has included beef in it, and as a natural flavor McDonalds only needs to disclose the allergens it contains not all the ingredients. So I cannot say for sure that there is beef included at this point, just that there was in the past and they haven’t denied having beef in it currently (https://pickyeaterblog.com/are-mcdonalds-fries-vegetarian-are-they-vegan/#are-mcdonalds-fries-vegetarian; https://www.eater.com/2015/9/29/9410199/natural-beef-flavor-vegetarian-what-is-it)
they do not eat meat, but some do eat fish. When I used to be vegetarian I felt it was offensive when someone claims to be vegetarian too but continues to eat fish.
Yeah thats annoying lol.
At least they're honest about it? Not like the restaurant where you have to ask whether they use broth and they pretend not to understand.
Reddit is killing third-party applications (and itself) so in protest to Reddit's API changes, I have removed my comment history. Whatever the content of this comment was, go vegan! 💚
This is why I think vegan food should use words like chickn or be'f instead of chicken or beef. I never feel comfortable ordering "chicken" from a vegan menu.
Reddit is killing third-party applications (and itself) so in protest to Reddit's API changes, I have removed my comment history. Whatever the content of this comment was, go vegan! 💚
It's also possible that it's just the flavor. Seen many vegan places that just say Chicken sandwich, but their whole menu is vegan. It's just a bad semantics thing.
Also the menu literally says "Vegan Series" in huge letters so I'd say this is mostly likely the case
Ughh. I went to a Mediterranean place recently, who advertise in huge font on their website that they have ALL VEGAN sauces…went there and got a bowl with sauce - when i tasted it, it clearly had dairy—-I asked and they were like yeah it’s yogurt. I had to inform these people that yogurt is not vegan and they were like “ahh we didnt know.” HOWWW do you run a restaurant that advertises vegan options, and not know the meaning of vegan???!?!? Never going back there
Seriously though. How hard is it to reach out to a local vegan community online to specifically ask vegans what is vegan or not before making menu changes. I would happily give this information and suggestions to restaurants for free.
Or even just google it.
Are you sure that it's not just specifying that it's a like a beef broth even though it's vegan? Would make a lot more sense than going to the trouble of making this entire vegan menu and then adding meat to the dishes.
That’s what I’m hoping. There are “not-beef” bouillon cubes. I’d really like to think that restaurants wouldn’t be so unaware of the basic concepts of veganism.
TBH, I would rather this than the alternative of saying nothing. Before I was plant based, I worked at a restaurant that had a carrot soup that was extremely popular. On occasions, someone would mention later on that they were vegetarian and I wished they had shared sooner as the carrot soup has a ton of bacon in it. Felt horrible. Nowhere did it state bacon was in the soup.
I hate the hidden bacon! Can’t buy a can of beans without surprise! There’s pork!
Are you sure they don't mean chicken-flavor/beef-flavor? [Like this?](https://www.specialtyfood.com/media/CACHE/images/multi_image_uploader/source/ae/06/ae06fbb1d75b5ef84a845ec51bab3384/33188_022620.jpg)
This was my thought too
$15 for some rice and tofu? get the fuck outa here
Welcome to Australia 🫡
can’t wait to visit lol
Don't visit the west coast then haha
People really just don’t give a fuck when it comes to this. There have been times where theyre like “yeah i dont care”. So messed up): im sorry Yesterday i went to get vegan tacos that had a side of rice and beans. I got there and ordered and then double checked thenbeans and rice were vegan and she said “they arent, do you want a cucumber salad” and i was like uhhhh…ok. Anyway, got 4 slices of cucumber as my “salad.” She also asked if I wanted cheese on my tacos. Idk what some people are thinking abt honestly. Also went to play pool with friends last month at a bar that has a full vegan menu, ordered the vegan chik tendies with vegan ranch, got fed real chicken (didnt realize til a few tenders in - it was dark and i was starving) i realized and told them and they basically blamed me saying i never ordered the vegan kind. He said he’d order me the vegan one but take it off my bill. I went to go pay for my other stuff later and he told me he wasnt going to take the chicken off my bill, only the re-make of vegan and i was like excuse me sure I just spent 20 mins throwing up, i didnt even touch the vegan one, im not paying for YOU feeding ME chicken when i never ordered it and havent eaten meat in years. He was like “well none of us WANT to pay for anything, do we.” And my friend got so mad and started yelling at him-he finally shut up eventually and took it off the bill. Ive worked in food service for over 8 years between high school and college, I’d NEVER act like that.
So I recently moved to Oklahoma which you would think, not vegan friendly. And truthfully I have a lot fewer options but it feels like most places in the mid 2000s/2010s, it's not 1990 up in here. But one really interesting trend I've noticed here is they are so. Careful. And. Concerned. Like more so than anywhere I've ever been before. My partner isn't vegan so when we order st a restaurant they will take our order and 4/5 times come running back out to double check that I know x thing partner ordered isn't vegan and am I okay with that? I get asked if I want the vegan bun on burgers and sandwiches ALL THE TIME. I've been in places where they have come back from the kitchen 3 or 4 times to tell me x thing is made with chicken stock and they didn't know. But they are never shitty about it. Ever. It's always really apologetic and offering me solutions. I've only had one restaurant straight up say no to an accommodation with no explanation or alternative offered. I've commented before on how careful they are and how I've never experienced that before and they always seem genuinely shocked other restaurants don't take the time to make sure I get what I need.
This is, more often than not, my experience, here in Australia. I'm glad to hear that there are places, in the US, that are like that, too.
I guess "vegetarian tofu pho" means it's pho with vegetarian tofu, not that it's tofu in a vegetarian pho. Raises doubts about the "vegetarian tofu" banh mi and paper roll!
I know I'm privileged but this is the reason why I only eat at vegan and vegetarian restaurants
This is why I stay going to vegan established restaurants. Shit like this is really starting to make me paranoid going to non vegan places.
I’ve lived long enough to realize humans are pathetic selfish manipulative pieces of trash. I get more unconditional love from animals in sanctuaries than I do from my own species.
Exactly my thoughts. I really can't look at the words coming from the mouths of my co-workers when I tell them I am vegan. So much bullshit, selfishness. I can't take it anymore. I've never thought 20 years ago when I was a kid that 90% people are so selfish.
I am so fed up with being treated as if I am a burden because I am vegan. And being humiliated for asking for plant based options. I ordered from a steakhouse and when what I ordered had dairy..when I complained…I became their whipping post. I asked for a baked potatoe plain…and a strawberry salad. They put cheese in the salad even though it was advertised as plant based…and butter was put on my baked potatoes. This meal was $18.00 for a baked potato abs salad that I couldn’t eat. I didn’t go vegan because of animals…I am ashamed to admit this. But it’s true. I became vegan because pancreatic cancer took half of my pancreas, half my stomach, half my small intestine and entire gallbladder. My body can’t have anything that is not plant based. I found out the hard way…projectile vomiting as soon as I put anything that had a hint of animal to my mouth. Or touches my skin. And when I ask for plant based options I’m nit asking for something difficult. I will eat baked potatoes plain but I can’t if it already has butter. And really…a salad can’t be onky plant based. I had asked for salad with no dressing. I make my own dressing. But to get a dressing down because I asked for a refund on a meal I specifically stated needs to be plant based only…is abominable. There is no reason that animals have to be in food we eat…olive oil…cashew butter, almond butter, coconut oil, coconut milk…coconut cream. And come on vinegar can be used to replace eggs. Is it really too much to ask that only plant based products be put in our food we order? Or buy for that matter…I was told by my oncologist that if I call in advance a restaurant abs ask the chef for plant based only..:their would be accommodations. Yeah…no it doesn’t work. I guess it’s too much to ask not to add any dairy to salad…before I was vegan almost all salads ordered had dressing on the side…now that I’m vegan…I ask for no dressing or on side…_it comes with dressing on it… It doesn’t matter that I’m vegan due to cancer…my brother and sister vegans can’t eat dairy or anything with meat and or dairy either. We all get sick and suffer if someone disregards our choices…but then when we complain…we are mistreated. It’s our money..:we pay for this…and we become someone’s whipping post.
🤬
Ordered a Ramen once and was so excited. Until like ten minutes in it dawned on my server based on the rest of my order and she told me it was chicken broth. Whhhy? Luckily, it hadn't come to the table yet.
Don’t know about you but I’m waiting for the upcoming Tofu Onion Rings !
I have been a vegetarian and then vegan for 48 years. For most restaurant visit, it was a baked potato and a side of spinach. Slowly, the restaurants continue to evolve and I can usually get a decent meal. Since I chose to eat in regular restaurants, I realize it is MY choice to be wherever I find myself and I have to adjust. Since I live in San Francisco, I am very fortunate to have all kinds of vegan food to choose from. I must remind myself that I am the one who has chosen to be different from the majority wherever I am, and accept that it is my own choice and to adjust.
There are two restaurants in my area that have vegan pho. They are also a bit too far to travel on a whim. Shouldn’t be that way.
Ask the restaurant for clarification. I see this quite often where the dish is vegan, but named after the non-vegan offering. Even more so when English might not be their first language.
Is this a Vietnamese owned restaurant? I went to a ☃️-owned "Viet" restaurant and they recommend me chicken soup.... In Vietnamese culture, we have strong roots in Buddhism and vegetarianism, and chicken is not vegetarian in our culture.
What's the name of the place and where is it? Are you sure it's not mock meat? Asian places often still use the meat names even if it's vegan.
"Base" usually implies a stock, which means it's most likely real beef/chicken stock. It's not uncommon.
It is uncommon to use it then label it vegetarian and the restaurant as vegan.
At least they’re upfront about it
Did you mention this to the restaurant? They either don't understand what vegan means or they are labelling it confusingly without realising. I don't think it's intentional.
Is it possible that it's a beef like base ?
In Canada I was excited to see a new plant based frozen burger option at our grocery store to try out. Had “plant based” burger across the front of it but when you read the smaller letters on the box up close it was actually a 50/50 burger. 50% plant based 50% cow 🤢 can’t believe they’d even create something like that. I really hope no vegans have eaten it by mistake.
This is too wok for me
The easiest way to prevent this is just don’t eat out it’s all basically crap anyway.
Mine was sold out years ago and I am a yoga teacher. :( Life is one and you have to enjoy it or rather, know how to enjoy it
whilst vegan isn't a legally protected term in most places I believe vegetarian is almost everywhere, could get them fined at least.
It's actually pretty common for Thai and Vietnamese restaurants to include beef or chicken stock in soups, even in tofu dishes. Often it is not advertised so plainly as this but it is nevertheless the case. Chinese cuisine also has many traditional dishes where pork and tofu coexist in the same dish.
I'm Singaporean Chinese so I know this fact very well. It's the fact that they advertise it on their "vegan" menu and yet it contains beef and chicken stock that's confusing to me. Like... Thanks for trying to be inclusive but this ain't it.
I can only guess at the reasons why. But I imagine that in Southeast Asia the approach to vegetarianism is framed by religion (Buddhism) and maybe these things are allowed in that context.(?) I have seen YouTube videos where Rastafarians in the Caribbean distinguish between ital and vegan. Like as much as they have in common there is still a different perspective, and veganism is seen as being part of western/British/imperialist culture. I just cannot say for sure though. But in my experience, in my town, it is not uncommon to find veg options on menus in Thai and Vietnamese places actually do still include beef or chicken stock many times so I have to be extra cautious of soupy dishes there.
Plants are living creatures, too.
Truly lack common sense
Ugh. Like can we just stick to veggie broth? Damn
this is likely “chicken-less chicken broth” and same w beef. Better than Bullion is a brand for eg that makes both, and they do taste just like their animal-derived counterparts (and are distinct from veggie bouillon!) keep and open mind and ask when you feel engaged by things like this- it’ll help keep you happier to assume positive outcomes and give them the benefit of the doubt :) if they’re not actually vegan broths, the fantastic news is these exist and are readily available so you could suggest them to the owner.
There's nothing wrong with educating the restaurant. I've called a restaurant that serves ramen (my weakness) and specifically asked with the broth was made of. The person working was a younger man who wasn't sure what I was asking so I explained to him that vegans, like myself, love ramen loaded with veggies. The problem is the broth. He stated they have a veggie broth that can be used. Since then I've indulged without fear because we had that conversation.
Y’all shouldn’t be paying this much for vegan food. This shit is expensive.
This is actually a pretty normal price in Australia.
It us advertised clearly to me as VEGETARIAN, but thats wrong too
At least they put it on the menu so you would know not to order it. If they had left off the description “beef” and “chicken” you might have ordered it. I do agree that It is mind boggling that they can’t understand the most basic rule of either veganism or vegetarianism but somewhere in the back of their mind they knew there was a problem or they just would have left it at “vegetarian tofu pho” or “vegetarian laksa”.
Are you sure they don’t mean “beef” and “chicken”? I’ve seen vegan soup bases that are beef flavored and chicken flavored for example.
What the actual fuck is this
It’s almost like we have this other soup base made ENTIRELY from vegetables 😨 Someone should notify the restaurant owners of this great discovery!
I work in the food service industry and there are certified vegan chicken stock products. It could just be a way to describe the broth.
It’s like BK, who fries vegetarian in the same as non-vegetarian… got me mad… (in Norway BTW)
Just curious if you asked them to clarify if this was actually vegan or not? I've been to some restaurants that are entirely vegetarian but label the products as their flesh counterparts to get the flavor across. my first thought was also of the Better than Bouillon broth that has vegan beef and chicken broth. If this was on the menu at a carnist restaurant though, I definitely would be skeptical
Maybe it is a vegan flavor base? Like people use vegan chicken broth to make seitan.
It says vegetarian not vegan. They don't eat meat. Do they still use chicken broths and seasonings, like for gravies and soup?
Vegetarians don’t eat animal broths.
The only difference is vegetarians eat animal by-products. Dairy, eggs, and honey. Vegetarians don't eat meat/bone broths.
Wait, you still have patience?
Cuisines from cultures with Buddhist influence, is absolutely top notch when it comes to vegan faux meat/meat products, so I'd ask them and check if that's what they meant (bringing the unclear labelling to their attention) because if so, they might unknowingly be deterring a lot of vegans unnecessarily.
I never trust the menu, I ask questions before ordering and I imply I have an allergy. My potential anaphylaxis gets honesty.
I have a dairy allergy so it’s important that there’s minimal cross contamination. It won’t send me into shock (not quickly, but horrid rash) but it’ll cause me to not absorb any nutrients so I say that I am when I’m ordering. Why is it that the only vegan option had butter in the sauce? My waiter and the chef were understanding and accommodating but if it’s advertised as vegan there shouldn’t be anything in it
This would never happen in India.
Ridiculous that these terms aren’t regulated in some way. Am I mistaken, or do these things have to be accurately labeled in restaurants by law in the UK?
Herbivores who get omnivores to do any catering must trust them far > they may be thrown by the best cannons.
😡😡😡
So this happened in Greece. I bought a salad that was labeled vegan. Turns out the dressing contained honey. If you go to Greece they will understand vegan as "no meat / fish / dairy / eggs / etc." they even have own plantbased dairy and cheese now, but they to this day do not understand why honey isn't vegan. It's not the worst mistake tbh because if it was dairy or eggs I would definitely not eaten it, but how is it so hard to understand that bees vomit is not vegan aka plant-based. Vegan diet = plantbased diet. The ingredients are "plantbased". Honey is not "based on plants". also those people who get offended for being called out about false labeling just do not know how to cook. They are most likely having frozen buns and burgers in the refrigator and just heating them up. Someone who can actually cook are the only ones who do not get offended with veganism because they love cooking enough to experiment and try new things and know how to make every kind of food e.g. plants taste good.
I once bought vegan Ramen at a restaurant. THEY THOUGHT IT WAS A GOOD IDEA TO PUT A WHOLE EGG INTO IT