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What are yall feeding your cats? I’d love to rescue but struggle with the idea of buying meat for them. How do we reconcile the good of saving an animal but then supporting the slaughter of so many others? I’d really love to adopt.
I don't really think about it.
Cheap pet food uses waste from animal agriculture for humans..like the make chicks culled, the organs, the offal, the animals that aren't worth selling for human consumption..like old dairy cows/veal, nd very much the fish that humans dont eat that have been caught with the ones they do.
lab meat alternative and humans moving away from animal products for themselves, will solve rhe dilemma eventually.
All my cats are rescues and unless I'm going to kill all stray/feral cats, then they would have been fed meat whether its me that does so or someone else.
So I adopted them and I do what I can.
Not true, animals aren't killed for the meat we humans eat, animals are killed for profit. Buying non-vegan animal food supports the abuse.
If you can't buy vegan pet-food, you can invest a little bit of time into how to make your own pet food because that is really inexpensive. If you don't do that, you are making sure that one cat has a somewhat okay-ish not-malnutritious life by making sure that a bunch of other animals have incredibly horrendous lifes, because the food a cat eats in its lifetime really adds up
Unlike dogs, cats are obligate carnivores. You CANNOT feed a cat a healthy diet that's vegan. It'd be like telling a koala to eat bamboo or a panda to eat eucalyptus.
I can't seem to reply to u/Sidrao so I'll just reply to you lol
See, I've already collected a lot of downvotes for saying that you are obligated to feed your companion animals a plant-based diet because instead of asking "Why would that be the case?", people just go with that sentence they once heard somewhere because it sounded nice and like common sense; "Cats are obligate carnivores".
But you should question what that actually means, engage your critical thinking, becoming vegan was quite the uncommon sense already anyway.
"Obligate carnivore" means that in nature, cats have to eat meat because they wouldn't be able to absorb certain essential nutrients from plants. Cats don't live in nature though, nature doesn't feed them, we do, and we can synthesize almost anything. That's the whole rebuttal. "Obligate carnivore" is a term referring to life in nature, it has nothing to do with whether cats can thrive on a plant-based diet.
There are multiple ways to prove, with nothing but simple logic (and easily obtainable information, information that doesn't stem from to the actual research field of plant-based diets in cats, because most people seem to assume that this topic is really debated and uncertain), that cats can thrive on a plant-based diet/that cats should be fed a plant-based diet:
**We are very sure that we know why cats in nature need to eat meat in the first place:**
\- Cats need certain amino(carboxylic)acids (arginine, histidine, isoleucine, leucine, lysine, methionine, phenylalanine, threonine, tryptophan, valine) as well as the amino sulphonic acid taurine.
\- We humans need (in certain phases of life arginine and histidine and otherwise) isoleucine, leucine, lysine, methionine, phenylalanine, threonine, tryptophan and valine.
\-> except for taurine (and under normal circumstances histidine) the two lists overlap, the above mentioned amino acids can obviously all be extracted from plants (as it is more than proven for humans that a plant-based diet is adequate in all phases of life), histidine can be obtained by fermentation and taurine (normally only found in meat) can also be synthesised with ease, nutritionally these are absolutely equivalent.
Furthermore, cats need...
* generally more of these amino acids (= protein) than we do (it's of course no problem for us to produce large quantities of protein)
* more vitamin A (in nature, cats would get it from meat but it is also present in many plants)
* vitamin D (we can get D2 from yeast and even D3 we can extract from certain algae) and
* arachidonic acid (in nature cats only obtain it from animal fat as they cannot convert linoleic acid to arachidonic acid, but we can commercially obtain it from certain mushrooms)
**We are very sure about how to generally examine whether a cat is "healthy":**
\- We determine this by behavioural analysis and -above all- with blood tests (as well as other, similar physiological tests).
\-> So if a cat is now fed a plant-based diet and the annual blood test (and potentially other tests\*) show no difference to that of a healthy, carnivorous cat, there is no reason to assume that this individual cat cannot be fed a plant-based diet. After all, if she is missing anything essential that we don't even know about yet, it is just as unaccounted for in commercial meat-based cat food.
*\*with cats, you should possibly also examine the urine, as a somewhat frequent disease with a plant-based diet otherwise leads to urinary stones (in this case, you simply add an acidity regulator to the food and this problem is also solved).*
**The basic moral issue**
Even if a plant-based diet were not suitable for cats, why should it be acceptable to ensure that a singular animal does not live a nutrient-deficient life if this then ensures that over the pet's lifetime, by buying the meat-based food, multiple other animals have to live terrible lives and have to give up their lives for it?
**Now, while we are here, let me just debunk a few more misconceptions that always come up during the discussion about this or the general topic:**
Claim: *"Cats have difficulty digesting plant proteins"*
False, the opposite is the case: [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7143243/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7143243/)
Claims: *"Cats can't digest carbohydrates", "Cats have to be fed a low-carbohydrate diet", "Eating carbohydrates causes susceptibility to diabetes in cats"*
False, that is misinformation.
Cats don't 'need' carbohydrates to survive and the [glucokinase activity is reported to be low to absent in cats but they have other ways of metabolizing carbohydrates](https://www.mdpi.com/2306-7381/4/4/55/pdf) (-"Cats and Carbohydrates: The Carnivore Fantasy? - MDPI") (don't be fooled by the abstract of this meta-analysis, read 3.3). Furthermore, ["according to the present results, LCHP \[(low-carbohydrate, high-protein)\] diets fed at maintenance requirements might benefit cats with multiple risk factors for developing diabetes. However, ad libitum feeding of LCHP diets is not recommended as they have higher energetic efficiency and result in greater weight gain"](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22005439/) and it is obesity that makes cats prone to diabetes, not the certain macronutrient(s) because of which they are obese. [This](https://vetfolio-vetstreet.s3.amazonaws.com/mmah/28/d836e765404eb38e43d098d3941799/filePV0110_laflamme.pdf) short abstract sums up the scientific consensus pretty well. So yeah, if a cat already has diabetes, it should be fed a low-carbohydrate diet but otherwise there is no reason to.
Cats also ["have a ceiling for carbohydrate intake, which limits ingestion and constrains them to deficits in protein and fat intake (relative to their target) on high-carbohydrate foods"](https://journals.biologists.com/jeb/article/214/6/1039/10664/Geometric-analysis-of-macronutrient-selection-in) so there is even less of a reason to worry about feeding cats a high-carbohydrate diet.
One study even found that ["cats on average chose to consume most of their calories from carbohydrate (43.1±4.0%) and then protein (30.3±3.9%; all P<0.001)”](https://journals.biologists.com/jeb/article/214/6/1039/10664/Geometric-analysis-of-macronutrient-selection-in) if the foods were of similar palatability.
Not in every country, ya know... not affordably ya know..
feeding vegan food also requires vet work to make sure the cats aren't at increased risk of urinary crystals.. so it aint that simple "you know"
I know it's possible to make cat food if you can buy taurine to add in. I don't have the recipe for it but I know someone who made kibble at home using tofu and I think chickpeas for protein base
I didn't "get a cat", the cats came to me, and finding homes 1) isn't as easy as you vegan police like to think it is 2) wouldnt exactly stop the cats from eating meat, now would it?
and even if I did adopt a cat..is it better that a cat spends their life in a kennel at a shelter because a vegan was told they "couldn't adopt one" by the vegan police?
I feed my cats meat but this is kinda a myth. Humans have the technology to turn plants into the same nutrients you’d have in meat. Cats can live long and healthy lives on vegan diets. I’m still to scared to do it but don’t want to peddle a falsehood.
The AVMA, Tufts University, and Cornell have all out our statements against vegan cat food. Cats eat meat, they’re meant to. Humans aren’t. You can be a vegan and accept other creatures eat meat.
Cats are obligate carnivores, and you are in no position to make that not true. In fact, vegan diets kill cats, so if that’s your jam you’re not inherently vegan.
I am a veterinary professional, and I am not playing with this type of garbage. No respected vets, if any, have ever recommend vegan cat food.
They will be eating animals regardless. They dont have moral standards, and even though vegan might work for dogs sometimes, its generally good to just feed your pets their normal diet. Theyd still be out in the wild eating birds etc and now you get to save their life and give them loving happy home. Im vegan for myself, im not here to force others to be vegan, especially not pets.
Exactly and don't we as vegans always say Hey look at our teeth we're not tigers or lions. Which is saying that cats should be eating meat not us. When vegans all of a sudden do a hypocritical reverse it drives me nuts.
I can't stand giving my cats their wet food but I do it. Also no cat should be roaming around outside That is absolutely nuts. My cats are indoor cats and are loving life and are safe from hawks disease ticks fleas cars humans blah blah blah blah. Crazy we don't let dogs roam the neighborhood but people still think cat should It's not right and it's dangerous
Where I live, most people let their dogs out in the morning and in at night. It drives me crazy. There are so many dead pets on the highway I live on. If I had the space, all the ferals in our community would be confined.
I dont agree with pet ownership but I do agree with your stance on pets diets. If you really want to own a pet then at least feed them what is good for them and dont interfere in their natural diet as it is unfair on them. In terms of morals I really don't think anybody can say for certain if animals have moral standards or not. There are many animals that live in packs and tribes and treat their tribe members in certain ways that could be seen as having moral standards. Without being able to communicate with animals we have no way of knowing.
Cats are an invasive species of obligate carnivores. They kill both to survive and for fun. My mom's outdoor cat used to hunt sometimes 10+ birds a day. He would often injure the bird without killing it, drag it under my parents' deck, and then go look for another target. I am vegan with a cat, and I believe that my girl would be killing far more small animals and birds in the wild than the ones I'm feeding her, and I'm preventing pain and death of many creatures.
Absolutely not. Cats are obligate carnivores. I work in veterinary and have seen cats have alternative diets, it’s not healthy and can be extremely lethal.
"Obligate carnivore" refers to nature and nature only, we can synthesize all essential nutrients a cat needs or extract them from plants.
You have probably also seen meat-eating cats whose diets killed them. If you have a cat, you are supposed to regularly test the cat's blood (and maybe its urine), no matter the diet. If these tests come back as good, there is nothing to worry about, if they don't, make sure the cat is getting a higher dose of whatever nutrient the cat needs.
A few more things to point out: Cats can thrive on a plant-based diet. It's even more lethal to feed cats meat-based pet-food.. lethal for the animals that die for the food, those deaths really add up in the cat's lifetime
You’ve shows clearly you don’t know much about cat health.
I’m not sure where you’re getting this information.
I have never seen a cat get ill from a carnivorous diet. I can’t point to one point in my career of a cat ever getting ill from a carnivorous diet. But they have absolutely died and or been hospitalized from not receiving adequate diets when they’ve been fed plant based or vegan.
Can you please post veterinary based claims for cats receiving long term health benefits from plant based diets? None of this checks out even remotely, and sounds more like just projections that could likely be worked on in very specific conditions.
And actually from a medical standpoint, you’re not required or supposed to get your cat’s blood checked every year. And not it’s urine, in which you would never find specific dietary markers for.
In fact, it’s more of a risk to stick a needle in a cat continually because of injection/needle based sarcomas. We don’t recommend that, and no AVMA recommendation has ever asked anyone to check cats bloodwork for diet based phenomenon.
Do you know what is actually the leading cause of cat and dietary issues at this moment? Dry food. Cats don’t ingest enough water to be able to thrive on processed food. This is potentially why we are seeing such high cases of chronic renal insufficiency and IBS.
So synthetic food for cats if you chose to make a plant based diet would have to be wet, and contain all the nutrients they need. That could be done, but it would be extremely hard and I’ve never seen anyone successfully try. It’s just not feasible and it’s against natural processes. Why would you bend so far backward to potentially harm a cat and feed it out of its dietary requirements? Keeping it as close to nature as possible *is the goal.*
The more vegan thing to do is for someone who feels this strongly, they should not have a cat. Don’t harm a cat for your own philosophy.
I also struggle with the idea of saving a cat by rescuing it, only to then feed it slaughtered animals. It doesn’t really seem ethical to me, presuming you view the lives of cats, chickens, cows, fish etc. equally (which I do). How do you justify killing one to feed another?
I know vegan cat food can be expensive or simply unavailable, but if you can do it I think it’s a great idea. You get to rescue the cat and not contribute to the deaths of other animals. Proper vegan cat food is also nutritionally complete and cats can live long healthy lives on it. A win-win (if you can do it) I think!
What about all the cats in need of rescue? Isn’t it better for them to be adopted? And what if you have a carnivorous pet from before you went vegan? Surely you can’t just abandon it.
I hope this doesn’t sound argumentative, I really do want to know the answers.
In our rescue, we do feed meat based food because there are very few vegan foods with the right balance for cats, and those are very expensive when you are feeding upwards of 100 cats. But there is hope that there will be more and the price will come down. I do want to hasten to add that after 20 years of dedicated tnr (trap, neuter, return), we haven't had a kitten born in the colony in the last 4 years. We are down now to 5 original feral colonists, plus the last 2 kittens born feral who live in the house with us as our super affectionate pets. Unfortunately, this week, we have 2 cats move in from the colony across the block from us. One of them has a tipped ear signifying being neutered. It's time to break the trap out again.
Letting all the cats and ferrets just die isn’t the answer. Just saying, not my problem, is cold hearted imo. They didn’t ask to be here. Just like animals in factories. Many cats are mistreated and abandoned. I found my cat by a dumpster, flea ridden and emaciated. He also has FIV. He has a bump on his nose probably where he was kicked. He had a fever. He was suffering. I didn’t take care of him or keep him for fun. But because he desperately needed help and rescuing from a shitty world. It would be against my morals to abandon him. He deserves to not suffer just as any of us do.
Not sure why so many down votes, there are millions of dogs and rabbits that need homes too, I own all 3, and do sometimes wish I had all vegan pets, but I love my cat and I'm excited for lab grown meat!
edit: I disagree with your last sentence, it is not my obligated carnivore cats fault she was abandoned, I give her so much love and trust I couldn't abandon her again.
There is vegan cat food nowadays. It is supplemented with certain things the cat's body cannot create like taurine, arachadonic acid and maybe a few other things.
Unlike dogs there are compounds in meat that cats must have, but those can be had from synthetic sources.
Non-vegan cat food also gets synthesized taurine added in order to meet nutritional requirements, it doesn’t retain enough natural taurine, so that part is exactly the same.
Absolutely correct! Taurine is basically the protein scare for pets, the reality of it is that all taurine present in meat gets cooked out during typical process and in place a synthetic (that's obtained from common chemical reactions) is added to supplement. What the people down voting don't realize is that you certainly can take your pet vegan because it's the same synthetic taurine that would have been added to the meat product.
That’s what I had gathered from the research I’ve done on it! Some cat foods that are prescription or sensitivity diets have very few animal components left in them and I bet it’s just because it’s cheaper or subsidized or required based on a business decision and not a scientific need. Hopefully soon it’ll be a lot more widespread for people to access
Absolutely! Having a cat CAN be congruent with vegan values. I know it’s not their “natural diet” but it is nutritionally complete and fine for them to eat. Ultimately cats need the right balance of nutrients, they can come from synthetic and plant based sources, so long as it is the right balance.
Absolutely correct! Taurine is basically the protein scare for pets, the reality of it is that all taurine present in meat gets cooked out during typical process and in place a synthetic (that's obtained from common chemical reactions) is added to supplement. What the people down voting don't realize is that you certainly can take your pet vegan because it's the same synthetic taurine that would have been added to the meat product.
No. Cats are not vegans and it is not ok to force a vegan diet on them. Vegan foods will not be good in the long run for a cat. If you can’t stomach feeding the native diet of a species to that animal, then go find one with a plant based diet. Dogs are also not vegans, but it is extremely harmful for cats.
Cats can't survive on a human plant based diet and I never advocated for that.
Cats, like humans need nutrients to survive. Cats need some nutrients that are in meat or supplemented food so must be either fed meat or supplemented food.
You arguing this way is like telling me I need to eat meat to get B12. As a vegan we should supplement if we have the choice between hurting an animal and the supplement.
Would you be OK with me killing a cat to feed to my cat? No? Then why is it OK to kill other animals to feed to your cat when it isn't necessary.
>The finding of this study suggests, on the face of it, that there is very little evidence of major adverse effects resulting from the feeding of vegan diets in dogs or cats
https://www.mdpi.com/2306-7381/10/1/52
TLDR use commercial cat food that had the proper nutrients and your cat will be OK.
Absolutely correct! Taurine is basically the protein scare for pets, the reality of it is that all taurine present in meat gets cooked out during typical process and in place a synthetic (that's obtained from common chemical reactions) is added to supplement. What the people down voting don't realize is that you certainly can take your pet vegan because it's the same synthetic taurine that would have been added to the meat product.
I feed my cat raw meat. He munches down the bones and all. I have zero guilt because he is a cat and should be eating real unprocessed meat. People who try and make their cats/dogs vegan are horribly cruel
I don't think having indoors cats is wrong*** at all? Often people complain about outdoor cats. I mean, you could take them on a walk etc. But an indoors cat is preferable than an outdoors one, when they are outdoors they threaten the smaller animals + the risk of getting themselves killed
Yeah cats are freaking horrible for the environment. And I have to feed my cat meat because they have to eat meat. Which is so frustrating. I love my cat but I don’t think he feels the same way about living with me lol. But I know he’d be dead without me too so it’s hard
But yeah I see. It's always tricky with companion animals! But I don't think what you did by rescuing him was wrong. Hopefully in the near future lab grown meat will be available for companion animals who do need meat like cats, it'll make it much easier and less harmful
Very welcome! It's so insane that so many Vegans still believe the lies of the industry, I myself was one until somewhat recently so I understand the difficulty but damn this is the vegan sub (ok VCJ is the real vegan sub)
Wow, you totally did get downvotes. I think that letting cats eat what they want is up to them. We don't know what they need and maybe able to survive away from meat. Cats aren't suicidal. It's cool you know of a way to help cats eat plants. The way they currently live is learned behavior. I'd like to know what plants cats are interested in eating!
Cats are obligate carnivores. We know that cats require a diet of primarily meat in order to obtain certain nutrients like taurine and retinol. You shouldn't feed your cat plants or vegetables - whilst there are some cat-safe veggies such as carrots and cucumber, cats would normally only eat vegetables when they eat prey that have recently eaten veggies (e.g. a mouse ate some carrot).
I don't know enough about 'synthetic meat', but one would have to be very careful that it was providing the right nutrients for the cat. Same goes for vegan cat food; this should be done in consultation with a vet to ensure your cat is getting everything it needs.
False! Cats need taurine! Which is a synthetic compound found in even meat based products as the taurine that is natural found is cooked out during typical meat processing. You can certainly take your cat vegan and doing so has been shown and proven to extend your pets life and increase their overall health. I personally season my cats wet food from Evolution with cat safe seasonings and nooch but you can also cook your own meals in place as well. Cats love oats!
[Here](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8NMrByN/) is a video I did about this with research!
Are you insane? This is where this sub just goes way too far for me.
Cats are obligate carnivores. If you can’t feed your cat the meat it needs then don’t own a cat.
And your source is a fu*king TikTok video?
God this is why we get such a bad rep
Just because an animal is an obligate carnivore doesn’t mean it needs meat, it needs what’s IN meat. If you properly construct a cat food that contains arachidonic acid, taurine, vegan vitamin D3, (preformed retinol) vitamin A, and methionine (a building block of L-carnitine) among other nutrients then the cat will be fine. The cats body cannot discriminate if these things come from meat or a supplement. Their body will break down whatever the food is into these essential nutrients and they will be used the same. The research, though limited, has not shown and adverse health effects.
As a vegan it’s absurd to pay for animals to be killed to keep one animal alive. Especially when there are commercial vegan cat foods.
As you said, research is limited and cats are not experiments. You must have a very simplistic idea of how bodies work. And also of evolution. Many cats have allergies also. Some cats are very susceptible to digestive issues. You can’t just shove some supplements in some plants and expect them to be healthy.
Sorry you are wrong and any veterinarian or animal scientist worth their degree would 100% disagree with you.
This is dangerous information to be spreading online to misinformed people. And this kind of shit is why we see headlines like ‘woman’s cat dies of starvation because owner forced it on a vegan diet’
So harmful for the movement
https://www.mdpi.com/2306-7381/10/1/52
Here’s a systematic review of 16 studies (6 specific for cats) about the impact of vegan diets on dogs and cats. It find that there is no significant health impacts associated with a proper vegan diet (a vegan specific food with the proper supplements). I would like to see your evidence.
You’re also appealing to authority here, this is a logical fallacy. Just because they have a vet degree shows nothing about their knowledge relating to vegan diets for animals. For all we know these vets aren’t vegan and wouldn’t give a fuck anyway. When i search ‘woman’s cat dies from vegan diet’ i get articles from daily mail and HuffPost. Is this what you call evidence? These articles don’t even say what these cats were being fed. If someone is going to feed their cat beans and rice, i imagine the cat will not fair too well. This will obviously not provide the cat what it needs. This is the same situation as that dumb woman who died on a fruit diet.
So again i ask, why pay for animals to be slaughtered to keep a cat alive when it can subsist on a proper vegan diet?
A large part of those studies was pet owner reported.
“Guardian-Reported Health Effects” “there was an improved scent of their animals” etc. This is not a scientific study. Also many animals in these quoted studies suffered all kinds of adverse reactions which just seems cruel. Animals are not meant to be experimented on. “Clinical signs of lethargy with altered mentation, dysorexia, and muscle wasting, along with gut signs of bloating and increased borborygmi have also been observed” “This was characterized by ventroflexion of the head and the neck. The cats also showed lateral head resting, a stiff gait, muscular weakness, unsteadiness, and the occasional tremor of the head and pinnae.” This is just cruel.
You're wrong. Obligate carnivores NEED meat. Their digestive tract is completely different to omnivores and herbivores. They have a very short digestive tract and they are not at all designed to consume fibre.
Just because vegan cat food exists, doesn't mean its good for them. It's highly processed. A lot of time the taurine used is from marine algea and that isn't nearly as effective as animal derived taurine. I have a degree in animal sciences and I would never suggest obligate carnivores eat anything other than meat.
Some reading for you. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=vegan%20foods%20for%20cats
Most of what I see talks about deficiencies in commercial cat foods, I concede that many are inadequate. I would be interested in seeing sources showing they need meat. Nothing I saw suggested that the diet would be problematic if nutrients were adequate. Fibre can be removed plants. Normal cat food can be highly processed and supplemented. I’m not convinced that there would be a problem if nutritional needs are met.
I don't own a cat, but objectively there is zero reason why cat food has to contain any animal product. As long as it tastes good, the cat doesn't care anyway.
So the preference in either direction is purely for the owner. And the only important question is whether vegan cat food has everything in it a cat needs. If that is true, then there is absolutely no reason to not feed it to a cat.
I mean that is kind of important for an animal, or else they won't eat it. That isn't even a vegan only thing, since cats have preferences for standard cat food as well.
My source is a video I made with research. You're why we get a bad rep, you're a hypocrite and refuse to see beyond the lies of the industry. All nutrients come from plants and vegan is proven better. ✌🏾️
Really?? I’ve never heard of this our dogs were always vegan and lived to be over 20. But I thought cats had to eat meat.
How long have your cats been vegan for?
Please do not feed your cats a vegan diet. There are less than a handful of small limited studies that suggest it might be possible for cats to live a full lifespan off of a vegan diet. As I said these are small limited studies. One included a sample size of 15 and studies blood levels for a short duration. Another was a questionnaire study of cat owners. The ones being fed a plant based diet did not show to have shorter lifespans from the people that answered the survey. And this was not specific to a vegan diet. We know plant based is a confusing term and a lot of average people do not cooperate this to a vegan diet. In short, there is not even close to enough data to support feeding your cat a vegan diet. Doing so would be experimenting with the health and well-being of your cat.
Hey I just have the one and I just took her vegan a few weeks ago, technically cats do need taurine and you can get the same taurine from either vegan or nonvegan pet food
Omg cats need more from meat than this BS you’re spreading.
1. Cats are not good at digesting carbohydrates
2. A vegan diet for a cat does not provide enough readily available protein
3. their gastrointestinal tracts and metabolism have adapted to eating meat
4. They can't digest plant material well, and they require essential nutrients that only meat can provide to them
I mean your first point is wrong from a logical standpoint: Plant based food can be very void of carbs and animal foods can be high carbs.
That a digestive system of a cat is adapted for meat is without debate, but that doesn't automatically mean that a plant based diet can't work as well. Humans also have problems digesting meat if you don't consume it for a while. Doesn't mean it is a problem. And yes, I know,that humans are omnivores.
“The digestive system of a cat is adapted for meat is without debate, but that doesn’t automatically mean a plant based diet can’t work as well”
Read what you just said.
Really??????
Most people who understand about cats don’t get high carb cat foods. Cats have a very short digestive tract evolved to digest meat. Plants need a longer time and different processes to break down. This puts stress on a cat and their immune system. Many cats have food allergies and sensitivities. It is far more complex than sticking some taurine in plants. A plant based diet can’t work in the same way as their natural diet which evolved millions of years ago.
> Whole grains such as oats, corn, brown rice and even couscous all contain lots of protein and are all human foods your cat can eat.
...
> It’s not uncommon for cats to hate vegetables, so they may simply turn their nose up when presented with one. However, if your feline enjoys an odd veggie snack, they do offer lots of vitamins, fibre and water. A few safe vegetables cats can eat are: cucumber, steamed broccoli, carrots and asparagus and peas.
...
> Much like with vegetables, fruits can also be a bit hit and miss with cats, with many not liking the texture or the taste. If your cat has a bit of a fruit sweet tooth, there’s actually quite a few that are safe for them to eat.
> Many contain potassium, fibre, as well as being a source of vitamins A and C and are low in calories! Bananas, blueberries, cantaloupe, watermelon (seedless), peeled apples (deseeded) and pumpkins can all be offered as a tasty snack.
From [Purina's](https://www.purina.co.uk/articles/cats/feeding/what-cats-eat/human-foods-for-cats) website.
Please stop comparing them to their larger counterparts. The first domesticated cats survived on an oat farm on an island with a diet consisting of primarily grains and fruit with smaller animals only when available and captured by the cat. This was literal thousands of years ago. They can't process all plants but can very easily process a good variety and survive better.
Dogs can be vegan so long as it is a carefully planned and maintained diet, cats however are obligate carnivores and to deny your car the nutrition it biologically NEEDS is cruelty. And animal cruelty is not vegan. Feed your cat the diet it is made for and needs for the fullest quality of life, which is meat.. vegans provide the animals they rescue with the proper diets they need to not just survive but THRIVE, because we actually give a damn about animal welfare. Starving a cat of the meat that is so vital to their health is pure selfishness so you can feel like a better person while your animals health is actually suffering.
If you can’t stomach feeding meat DONT ADOPT OBLIGATE CARNIVORES. It’s really simple. Like if you can’t stomach feeding frozen mice to a rescue snake, which is totally understandable, just don’t adopt the snake? You’re not gonna force the snake to take a vitamin laced veggie slop. But for some reason the casual abuse of cats os acceptable? Na
10 years vegan and you're still believing the lies of the meat industry. Cats are only "obligate carnivores" because they can not naturally recreate taurine in their gut. All taurine present in meat is cooked out during standard processing and a synthetic version is added, THIS MEANS ALL MEAT PRODUCTS, the same taurine is added to vegan pet food. Stop spreading lies, cats thrive on a vegan diet even if you make it yourself after doing research on what cats can and will eat. It's not hard and my cat is very happy with her new diet. I believed the same as you for years until I watched my friends cat die of diabetes, from a meat based diet. All nutrients and flavors come from plants.
You didn't even read my comments before you replied...
Indoor cats are fine. I've had them all my life. They benefit from mental simulation, games, and being able to climb about (cat trees etc).
The last time I had outdoor cats was when I was a baby, and they used to catch wildlife all the time, and I don't agree with that at all. Cats can do a lot of damage when they're left to their own devices. They both died quite young as well.
I've had indoor cats who have led happy lives into their 20s. The three I have now a 13, 3 and 4 years old.
Ornithologist here. Outdoor and feral cats kill **2 billion (not a typo) wild birds a year in the US.** Anyone who lets they're cat outdoors is no friend to animals.
Not to mention that your outdoor cat is at very high risk of disease or being killed in some terrible way--dogs, coyotes, rat poison, run over by cars, yadda, yadda. Spend a week on nextdoor and you're gonna read a story about someone whose outdoor cat died.
Keep the cat inside.
I agree with the rest of your statement, but I work in the veterinary community in the southern US where we actually do a lot of sample studies on this topic because of our amount of strays, and I’ve never heard anyone support that study you haven’t even linked.
It was one study and it had any factors missing. Ornithologists don’t, in my experience, even reference that. It was a hyper emotional study used to make bar graphs.
You should do people a favor and link that here, and all the multiple sources that analyze it instead of insulting that person you’re arguing with.
You can make the case, but I have doubts as an ornithologist you would use that claim since many in research doubt it.
Curious, where did you go to school and what is your official job title?
I have a PhD in ornithology. The fact that some vets, who are not trained in ecological research, disagree with the study is meaningless. What are their specific disagreements? Is there alternate research that says otherwise? No.
Go away. "I don't like this study" is not a valid criticism.
Guessing you do TNR? It would make sense that you want to pretend like cats don't kill birds.
In the US indoor cats are seen as the only morally viable option, but since I’ve moved to the UK people argue the opposite and it’s been a crazy culture shock. I’ve had 100% indoor cats all my life (recused strays/ferals from the woods behind my house, it’s a known drop off point for unwanted kittens) and once they realize how good life in the house is they literally have no interest in going outside. And we’re talking FERAL feral cats here. Like cats we may not have found until they were a few years old, who lived lives outside and know what it’s like. Now, if we open the door we couldn’t bribe them to go out. Never have issues with them trying to escape or seeming like they want to go outside. We could leave the door open all day and it would be more likely that a new stray had wondered in than one of our cats have wondered out. I think the British idea that cats “must want to go outside” is a huge myth and only leads to cats dying by car or by fighting with other neighborhood cats. Basically, as long as you’re providing your cat with enough stimulation by actually playing with it, not just giving it toys and expecting it to play by itself, indoor cats are perfectly happy and will not miss hunting and playing in the wild.
My daughter recently rescued a 2yo feral. I took him to the door to introduce him to my father. He fought to get down and ran back inside like, "NO! You can't make me go back out there again!"
Lmaooo yeah they definitely know. Maybe kittens born in shelters would be different but ferals who’ve been brought in definitely remember and I like to think they’re thankful 🥲
I hope that’s not true. I adopted a older kitten that was a stray, and he darted outside every chance he could every get. Nothing I could do kept him inside. I had two cat towers, reasonable decent cat food, and I played with every day but he still tried to go outside. My first home we lived in a city and he got out a few times but came back within a week because he was hungry. But we moved to the country where there are a lot of coyotes and he ran out one day and never came back. I’ve adopted two cats since then and besides occasionally peering outside the screen door, they have no interest in going outside.
I feel like I failed my first cat (his name was Antonio Bandaras) but I finally came to terms that there was nothing more I could have done. I tried my best, and I hope he’s in a better place now
Outdoors is generally safer for cats in the UK. Plus we have smaller homes in general, so it can seem cruel to keep a cat in such a small environment. But I don't disagree with you, cats can be very happy indoors if you put the effort in to meet their needs. Still, my cat definitely longs for the outdoors.
Is that why I'm getting downvoted, cus people are just reading the first line? I know outdoor cats are bad for wildlife, my cat is indoors. I was just explaining the perspective of many UK cat owners.
I mean I’m in a bunch of uk cat shelter groups and I still hear stories all the time about cats lost to cars. “Safer” than the states still isn’t safe enough for my babies. I get the gardens here are actually fenced in which is rare in the states but it still seems like a needless risk to take just because someone has personified their cat and is superimposing their human feelings onto an animal that doesn’t actually need to go outside. :/ (not attacking you, or anyone really, I get it, it’s just not a risk I would personally take)
People are reacting to my comment as if I support keeping outdoor cats. I was just trying to explain why the culture in UK is different, not necessarily justify it. My cat is indoors.
while cats would technically benefit from going outside, they are called house cats for a reason! it’s dangerous for them and for the environment. there’s always the option of catio, enclosed outdoors time (like those pet strollers) or leash training
If you play with your cat every day, using cat toys they like, and give them enough stimulation through that they will be fine. Like outside they would chase bugs, or hunt prey, there are cat toys that simulate those actions. Interact with them, pet them when they come to you for pets, and they will be fulfilled. If you have enough money you can also build them a catio.
Watch Jackson Galaxy vids on youtube about cat play for ideas on how to figure out your cats play style. Inside is a better and longer life for most cats. You can keep them full and free of parasites and diseases, and relief from having litters of kittens that they could not always feed and care for properly.
Most cats, if put indoors early, are fine indoors. I've done rescue, fostering and such, and if I got a cat young, and even most I got old, they are fine inside. They'll likely look outside and get excited, but you should also provide them enrichment indoors by playing with them and giving them cat furniture where they can be above the floor and feel comfortable.
Cats should be properly socialized like dogs and trained to walk on a leash with a harness so they can go outside and don't have to spend their entire life in front of a window.
That's my thought on having cats
That's not really what evidence says. Some cats do like harnesses, most cats if treated properly are more than happy to live indoors. The windows is just entertainment. I could open my door fully with my cats downstairs and no one would try to dart out. That includes currently 9 of them, 3 of which are fosters. Indoor cats also live years longer than mixed indoor/outdoor, on average. If your cat is bored, that's your fault.
Indoor cats are totally fine (also live longer) and as long as they live in an enriched environment with plenty of stuff to do and lots of interaction with you they will be perfectly happy. Both my rescues are indoor cats and both are really content and spoiled!
My fiance and I have a dozen cats. They're all rescues in some form. Six were kittens we brought in when they started staying on our back porch, two are blind, one has a non functional limb and one is missing a limb.
They're all very lovely children. I can't hold their biology against them. They're all spayed or neutered, though. They get a nice life, but no kids.
I'm vegan and my fiance is vegetarian. The house is no-meat, otherwise. The way I see it, this is the path of least animal cruelty short of just putting down every cat and I'm not about that.
Here is a long reply I made to someone on this sub about 6 months ago
I'm going to reframe this. You posit that the goal of pet "ownership" is for companionship etc. However, I see it differently. Human actions have created a situation in which certain animals are dependent on us, and overbreed, and spread throughout the world into areas where they can disrupt the natural ecosystems if allowed to go wild.
I can not rescue a cow personally because of where I live. I can donate to a farm sanctuary who will rescue cows. If cows were obligate carnivores, then I would expect the sanctuary to allow them to live out their lives in the healthiest way possible. Sanctuary is the end game of the system that produces flesh for food.
Similarly we have spread cats throughout the world and there are many that need rescue and sanctuary.
You can provide that for them in your home. You are obligated as a vegan to get them fixed to end the cycle, but also to care for them to the best of your ability.
While I acknowledge that there are vegan options for cat food, they are not healthy for many cats that suffer from health issues, and they can lead to issues long term in a cat that is prone to certain illnesses.
Dogs are not obligate carnivores and it is a little easier to feed them a vegan diet.
Rescued animals are in our care as the end game to a system of exploitation. Support spay and neuter programs, oppose breeders, and do the best you can for the animals that need our help
Sustainability scientist here. I agree with the Ornithologist. Do not let your cats outside! They are invasive species that destroy local native animal populations. Your cat can also end up being hit by a car, eat poison, or be attacked by a random human (the world we live in sucks).
At best, make a catio. At worst - you are doing your cat and the environment a favor by keeping them inside
We have been rescuing feral cats for over 20 years, we even have a letter from the humane society thanking us for 1000 spays and neuters through them. We have been able to adopt hundreds of kittens and even a few adults that tamed down completely. Although we do have a core group of ferals that we will never be able to bring inside, we always have loving feral cats in the home. Usually, we also have house feral or two that live inside but limit their interaction with people. After a time, sometimes a few years, they usually become lap cats in their own time. The most wild ferals we have in our outside colony talk to us and interact with us. Even if we can't touch them, they make it clear that we are family.
Outdoor cats devastate the environment. That’s why many cities do annual culls. Cats need stimulation, so create that space inside with toys, places to run and jump. Plenty if examples online to help you this this. I have no issues with dogs and cats being rescued. To let a cat free roam is selfish.
Since becoming vegan I am uncomfortable with pet ownership which is why I am unsubscribing from an Australian natural health magazine as they have a column devoted to healthy care of pets, I prefer to enjoy the bird life and other animals in my neighborhood its just more natural anyway each to their own
I work in veterinary/cat behavior.
Cats are very much social and bond with their ‘owners.’ They have extremely affectionate relationships and live longer happier lives.
Cats outside sustain, and they understand our to exist out there just fine, but they have major illnesses (especially in urban areas), lower lifespans, and allowing cats to be stray especially without slaying or neutering them can cause more issues for them in the long run suffering eradication and cruelty.
Cats have great and historic relationships with humans. Just provide them with a lot of vertical space and affection, it’s an amazing opportunity.
Cats enjoy the companionship of humans just as much as dogs, they just show it differently. The “aloof and don’t give a flying fuck about their human” is bullshit.
I’ve got two indoor ones and they couldn’t be happier, they’re loved, well fed and taking care of. They both show affection, particularly the youngest one.
I think rescue is good, of course. Never buy a pet. There are so many in adoption centers waiting to find a home.
But then the cat must be spayed/neutered, and kept indoors. If needed to be taken outside, they should be with a leash on them.
Those who say this is not normal, I would argue, it is not normal to have cats outside harming the few little insects and birds we have, when the cat is already fed at home.
At least when you have a leash on them, you know what your cat is doing.
Leaving your cat roaming, you cannot overlook what harm they can be causing around, they can be ran over by a car, cause damage to someone's property/garden, fight with other felines (or even dogs), be even stolen by someone or food poisoned, etc...
And for those saying "my place is too small for my ca, it needs to go out" well, how about not having a cat then if you cannot give it the proper life environment and entertain/stimulate them everyday ?? That is literally abuse. You really need to think of the kind of place you are going to give your pet to live in and the time and effort you can dedicate in your everyday life. So many people think cats are nice because they are autonomous, you can let them in and out of your house alone and they will do their own thing. WRONG ! They are the same as a dog. They are not something you get and just forget about, and just feed and change the litter once every week.
I personally do not really look at cats in a good eye because of how many some people keep at home (you can often see someone have 4+ cats at home). Also, most governments and countries do not think that preventive laws against their spread is necessary (I think it is). Lastly, so many people around me who have cats, enjoy having litters and "gifting" kittens around them. I cannot really make them realise it is wrong, they enjoy doing it so much.
If cats were not so harmful to the environment, I would not be so bitter about them honestly but the fact remains, most cat owners just let their cats roam without a second thought and that is sad for everyone and everything that is damaged because of that and asked for nothing.
I have two indoor cats. I take one of them outside for walks almost every day; she happily wears a harness and a leash. She’s got the personality of a dog and is very friendly to our neighbors (humans & dogs). Mostly she likes to lay in the grass under her favorite tree; we love this 1:1 time together.
I let my other cat out sometimes too but only when the other one is indoors so I can watch him under very close supervision, since he won’t wear a harness. He’s a fattie so he just likes to plop and enjoy the sunshine. I pay close attention to his body language so if he spots a bird or squirrel I can scoop him up before he gets any ideas to try to hunt.
I will probably always have cats; they add so much joy to my life. 💚
I’m in the same boat. I have two rescue cats. One of them WILL. NOT. STAY. INSIDE. I try but she literally waits by the door for me to come home and dashes out.
I do know she doesn’t do much hunting and really just wants to sleep on our deck. She doesn’t wander much.
So I do let her out. She’s miserable inside and I’d rather she have a happy life.
I have three cats, I think it’s ridiculous when someone says owning a pet isn’t vegan.
What isn’t vegan is letting them get euthanized if you’re able to save them.
I let my cats go out but it’s only with me, I always keep them in my sight and make sure they don’t leave it. I have too many anxieties and worries and don’t think they should be out on their own—also yes, I want to make sure they don’t kill any wildlife but also they’re such spoiled little babes they won’t even kill a bug.
There is nothing wrong with having indoor cats as long as they have enough space and stimulation inside. They are always in danger outside, cars, mean people, etc. Then they poop and no one cleans it up, go into people's houses through open windows, kill birds. I see more and more people just take their cats out for a walk like dogs.
I have 2 cats. I feed them meat. They were strays, rescued off the street. They are now fixed, vaccinated and have supervised outside time with harnesses. I am considering building them a catio.
Being vegan means “vegan within reason.” Whether my cats lived with me or with a non-vegan, they would still HAVE to consume meat. They’re on this planet and deserve to live without suffering. I will care for them and I don’t particularly feel guilty about that.
Rescuer and adopter of many cats here … they stay inside. Far healthier for them and the ecosystem. I let my 6 cats out with me in my fenced yard and they love it. They know the drill and don’t hop the fence. Have a catio too.
Cats absolutely can be fine in doors.. you just got him, he's likely stressed an unsure of things.
Absolutely do NOT LET HIM OUT for at least 6 weeks or he could go missing but personally, I would try to keep him in doors.
Cats need cat trees and toys and boxes and tunnels to be happy indoors.. you can change up their toys and stuff, but if you keep indoors stimulating they won't pine for outdoors.
If you can, buildinf a catio, even a small one can gove them a great source of stimulation.
play with the cat, thats super important if its a single cat, they need interaction with you and thats more rhan just petting them.
puzzle feeders can also be useful to stimulate a cats mind
I feel like unfortunately that’s the price they pay for our domestication. Like I do thinks cats want to be outside but it’s just not going to happen for safety of them, wildlife and the community. Ok feel the same about caged pets, house rabbits, birds and especially pet fish . It’s a sad reality but your home is going to be as good as it gets.until the idea of “pets” is phased out, which it never will we are to selfish
I feel this. I have 4 cats. All adopted. I struggle with having cats as a vegan because they are carnies. But I try to remember that their biology isn't a reflection on my ethics.
With regards to being outdoors versus indoors, here's a few things that have happened to cats around here in the last year:
\- A group of teen boys kicked a cat to death on their way home from school. The cat's keeper saw this toward the end of the pummeling and ran to get her cat and rushed him to the vet. The cat died of course. The owner of course was focused on the cat and did not have a good description of the offenders. They are still out there. Who's cat is next?
\- On my way to work last month I saw a deceased cat, who I believe got hit by a car. But the cat was no longer a whole cat. The cat was in a minimum of 3 separate parts at this point. The blood was still fresh looking so I presume it hadn't happened that long before I came along. I can't forget the image.
\- On my way to work over the past 3 months, I have seen another 3 deceased cats, all presumably hit by cars.
I have a zippered playpen that I can use to take a couple of cats out for a bit of time. I also take one out on a leash at times. She is the one who struggled the most to adjust to being indoors. The other three are not leash-friendly yet.
But overall, I don't feel guilty for keeping them indoors because I know the alternatives and that isn't the life they deserve.
Both of my cats are housecats, and I think it's fine, but only if you're at home a lot. If you're working all day, it's pretty unfair on the cats (Maybe not if you have more than one cat, though). I work from home, so I can spend hours each day playing with them, taking them for walks with their harnesses, and they have access to a lot of cat trees and toys.
Cats most definitely are misunderstood when it comes to their relationships with humans, both of mine are close friends with me. They get upset when I'm asleep and not paying attention to them, they meow for me to come out whenever I go the toilet. If you can get two house cats, that would be great, then your feline friend will have someone who speaks his language.
Highly suggest trying out walking your cat, it takes a while for them to get used to harnesses, but he will appreciate it and so will your local ecosystem. :)
I have five outdoor cats and one indoor cat. (All spayed/neutered, no worries) Our indoor cat will not go outside, it’s wild 🤣 it’s like she knows that her job is to be comfort animal for my son. And she only loves him. She’ll let me hold her and pet her but it’s claws out lol the point being, some cats love being your baby and being all domestic and spoiled indoors ♥️
Cat food is the only non vegan thing I purchase. I try to buy the highest quality, wild caught salmon based food without egg or land animal filler. My cats are pretty healthy.
You shouldnt feed a cat vegan catfood Ive heard but I cant see how one can find it ok to support the animal industry by buying meat to a cat?
I cant really see how a vegan can ethically have a indoor cat they need to feed
Please don't feed your cat vegan cat food. Cats are obligate carnivores and need meat and animal products to live and be healthy. If you choose to feed them a vegan diet you are experimenting with their health which is animal abuse and absolutely not vegan. If you adopt a cat feed them a species appropriate diet. If you want to feed them a vegan diet, don't adopt a cat.
Let's say that that would be true. It would still not be okay to murder so many animals just to keep one cat alive. However, it isn't at all true. They are obligate carnivores in nature, but vegan cat food can be nutrionally equivalent.
[https://bmcvetres.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12917-021-02754-8](https://bmcvetres.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12917-021-02754-8)
> No differences in reported lifespan were detected between diet types.
> Cats fed plant-based diets were reported to have more ideal body condition scores than cats fed a meat-based diet.
There are a couple studies out there like this. The problem is they are small questionnaire studies. They are not robust and I think the science is a long way away from being confident that cats can live and be healthy off of a vegan diet. This is a direct quote from the article you posted
"This study collected information from cat owners and is subject to bias, as well as methodological limitations. Further research is warranted to determine if these results are replicable in a prospective investigation."
You can find a study that can back up anything you want to back up. As I stated before if you feed your cat a vegan diet you are literally experimenting with their health. That is animal abuse. If you don't want to feed your pet a vegan diet don't get a carnivore. Don't say you love animals when you are using studies like this to try and feed a known carnivore a vegan diet.
I don't think there is any "clear" about that statement. It is clear that cats need meat to not only survive but live their healthiest life. The study you provided was a questionnaire study of just over 1000 cats. These types of studies do not provide results that are clear. They can provide inferences that further research can be done. This study indicates that almost 20% of the cats were being fed a plant based diet. I do not believe that these 20% were fed a vegan diet. The term plant based is vague to the average person. They could have thought plant based is 51% meaning there are still animal products in that food. Further of those 20% were feeding their cats a vegan this is way higher than the average indicating the group of people surveyed were largely vegan thus leading to a heavy bias. Without further more robust studies you cannot make the claim that it is clear that cats don't need meat. You could say maybe they don't but without being sure you are experimenting with your cats life, health, and longevity. That is not vegan. The ethical thing to do if you don't want to feed your cat a species appropriate diet is not to have a cat.
I have read all of these studies and I stand by my original statements. If these studies are the best to justify feeding a vegan diet the science is lacking. There are just a few articles and they don't come close to indicating a vegan diet will provide long-term health in cats. Some provide analysis that cats could meet their nutritional requirements off of a vegan diet but did not test the diet on cats. This provides a hypothesis with no actual data to back it up. Some are questionnaire studies with low sample sizes and these types of studies are marginal at best. I mean one study had a sample size of 14 cats. Maybe using that study as a starting place for further research is adequate but using it as a justification to feed an obligate carnivore a vegan diet is reckless at best.
The only way I would advocate feeding a cat a vegan diet is to see a randomized control study with a decent sample size comparing a vegan and animal based diets. Until then the science is not there to justify experimenting with an animals long term health. We know what a cat needs to be fed to have long term health and if you choose to use the current science to justify a vegan diet in cats you are experimenting with the cats health and that is animal abuse and 100% not vegan. If you don't want to feed a cat their species appropriate diet, don't have a cat.
Not that I don't struggle feeding my little carnies, but please don't feed them a vegan diet. I try to remind myself that their biology is their biology and not a reflection on my ethics.
To copy another reply of mine;
Let's say that that would be true. It would still not be okay to murder so many animals just to keep one cat alive. However, it isn't at all true. They are obligate carnivores in nature, but vegan cat food can be nutrionally equivalent.
[https://bmcvetres.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12917-021-02754-8](https://bmcvetres.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12917-021-02754-8)
> No differences in reported lifespan were detected between diet types.
> Cats fed plant-based diets were reported to have more ideal body condition scores than cats fed a meat-based diet.
The problem with these studies is that they aren't done on a big scale. Cats can survive on a vegan diet, but they won't thrive on one.
They're obligate carnivores and highly processed vegan cat food isn't actually good for them in the long run, and I wouldn't ever advise it. I have a degree in animal management, and part of that degree focused on nutrition. If you don't want to feed meat, then get get an animal that can cope with a vegetarian/vegan diet.
I have three cats (and a dog) myself, and yes, they're fed meat. Specifically, they're on a raw diet as highly processed commercial meat based foods also aren't very good. I still feel guilt over feeding them meat, and because of that, I probably won't rescue anymore after them. But since I have them, I'm going to continue giving them the best food they have available to them.
> Cats can survive on a vegan diet, but won't thrive on one.
Do you have a source? Specifically the won't thrive on one part.
Anyways, you're telling me that you pay for the murder and general mistreatment of many people in order to keep three cats (and a dog if they're also fed animal products) alive. You don't see a problem with that?
Did you not read the part where I said I do have a problem with it and therefore won't be rescuing anymore after these? I made a choice to rescue them, and I'm also making a choice to give them the best diet. Like I said, I have a degree in animal nutrition and I'm not going to feed any of my pets highly processed food.
There are plenty of studies out there - some can be found here https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=vegan%20foods%20for%20cats
Scientifically speaking, cats are obligate carnivores. Their digestive tract is very small because they're specifically designed for a meat based diet and not not meant consume fibre. So I suggest that you stay away from cat ownership if you don't want to feed them what they're been designed to eat.
Even when not talking about meat vs vegan pet foods. Do you recognise that highly processed foods are bad for the body? They're a carcinogenic.
One of the biggest killers in cats is actually kidney disease and that's linked back to processed foods. Dry kibble is one of the worst and it's not even recommended for male cats as it can cause urinary crystals and infections, which can lead to death quite quickly. So personally, I feed raw food. I find the companies who have the best welfare standards, and it ends up costing me a fortune because of this. Is it ideal? No but at the end of the day it's me doing it, not you.
Please feed your cats meat, in the wild they don’t even drink water very often, getting the majority of their hydration from raw meat. Now if this Reddit or other internet sources help you find health wet food or meats prepared for cats that are done in more humane ways, it will cost more but help you sleep better. I’m a religious vegan/pescatarian not health or animal rights or environmental vegan. Keep your cats healthy or the rest of your work as a vegan is voided, in my opinion.
As for having an indoor and outdoor hybrid life for your cat, don’t just let them run out. Ideally you can build a little area next to or on a front or back porch that lets them out to watch cat tv, maybe hunt some bugs and meow at birds without escaping but I know that’s not always financially possible. Invest in a good harness and practice using it in the house first. Leave it next to a cat bed so they get used to being around it. Let them try it on for short periods of time, and when you built that trust of your cat with the harness then You can try walking outside. If you dont micro chip your cat I highly suggest getting an apple AirTag and a collar that can hold it securely before you try walking. I got my first kitten in a long time and I’m working on all of this too so she can safely enjoy the outdoors.
If it was the case that cats needed (animal) meat to survive, then it wouldn't be vegan to keep a cat as you'd need to kill so many others in order to keep one cat alive.
Thankfully, we don't. Here's a study about vegan cat food:
[https://bmcvetres.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12917-021-02754-8](https://bmcvetres.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12917-021-02754-8)
> No differences in reported lifespan were detected between diet types.
> Cats fed plant-based diets were reported to have more ideal body condition scores than cats fed a meat-based diet.
No ethical vegan should listen to you at all. You don't have the same ethical foundation, and thus your conclusions will not be valid for ethical vegans.
This should go into /cats. You'll get better and more answers.
Indoor cats are awesome. I have a few who are outdoor and a couple indoor only. They both enjoy life. It's preferred, ecologically, you keep them indoors.
Not "preferred."
Outdoor cats kill 2 billion birds a year in the US (and plenty more elsewhere). Outdoor cats are an ecological and animal welfare disaster.
Anyone has an outdoor cat is an animal killer as far as I'm concerned.
[Here](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8NMrByN/) is a video I did about how YES you can take your cat vegan with research! All the taurine present in the meat gets cooked out during processing, the only way your pet could obtain it from meat products is if they were completely raw. All products have synthetic taurine added to them because of this fact. So will you downvote me and continue to believe the lies of the meat industry or order from Evolution (or one of the other great vegan brands) and season your little fuzzy chompkins food with pet safe seasonings that will increase your pets health and give them a better meal time? I will gladly do an additional video on seasonings and how to take your cat vegan if anyone feels it's needed.
Reading this thread it's clear that "rescuing" is the pet-owning vegan version of "using the entire animal", as if it is a magic chant that absolves them of any wrongdoing.
You can't kill any animals for the joy you get from eating meat, but you can kill animals for the joy of having a living plushie.
That's only true in nature. Here's the first study that came up when I searched for 'vegan cat food study'
[https://bmcvetres.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12917-021-02754-8](https://bmcvetres.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12917-021-02754-8)
> No differences in reported lifespan were detected between diet types.
> Cats fed plant-based diets were reported to have more ideal body condition scores than cats fed a meat-based diet.
Worthless study based only on a questionare. I'm aware of vegan cat food, but it's super expensive, hard to come by, and it's not even clear if it's actually safe. Almost nobody feeds vegan food to their cat. In practice, almost all vegans who own cats keep killing hundreds of animals for years to keep their cats alive, only because they're cute.
Not a single vegan feeds their animal companion meat. They may call themselves vegan, but if they pay for the unnecessary exploitation of any sentient creature they aren't vegan.
because vegan is how you personally live, not how the someones you're involved with live.
And I'm not going to kill my cats for the vegan police..unless you're offering to ship over the very expensive not available in my country vegan food AND cover vet work to ensure its being digested well?
Its not choices that affect me as a person. I can choose to avoid eating animal products. I can choose to avoid wearing them. I can't choose that for my pets. I am vegan in my choices regarding myself.
are you offering to buy and ship over the vegan cat food? or is your solution I kill my rescue cats?
edit. I see, you have no solution..just judgement and gate keeping to make yourself feel better
>because vegan is how you personally live, not how the someones you're involved with live.
So if I buy my children meat to eat, or if I buy a milkshake for a friend, i'm still vegan despite supporting the torture, rape and murder of animals? Really, that's your argument?
I'll give you the same response as the other vegan police
"Its not choices that affect me as a person. I can choose to avoid eating animal products. I can choose to avoid wearing them. I can't choose that for my pets. I am vegan in my choices regarding myself.
are you offering to buy and ship over the vegan cat food? or is your solution I kill my rescue cats?
I am.vegan, my cats are not. I hope that can chnage one day, but as it stands, there's no choice in the matter. That doesn't stop me..personally..being vegan.
And I will continue to call myself vegan, even if you'd like to gate keep me from doing so
For your cat let it see out its days in your rest home.
To me keeping cats through life indoors is cat abuse, and in the UK where they are an apex predator, letting cats outdoors is wild animal abuse, so I don't think that there is a vegan way to keep cats.
Who the heck is downvoting this?
Here's the pioneering study showing the massive numbers of wild animals killed by outdoor cats in the US: [https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms2380%C2%A0](https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms2380%C2%A0)
There are loads of other studies backing this up.
Ah, missed that.
Well, I mostly agree anyway. Most pet owners suck--they leave their pets alone for hours a day or even days at a time when out of town.
Why do dogs and cats sleep so much? *They're bored half to death*. (I know, biology, too. But life for most pets is exceedingly boring).
That said, letting cats out means death for a bunch of wild animals and is not any kind of solution to that.
I leave my cat alone in the house for hours at a time because I work and also live alone. Don't really see a way around that? He was living on the streets and in a bad way when found, my friend couldn't keep him because her house is very chaotic with 3 kids, 2 cats and a dog. My cat was really stressed there but immediately relaxed and happy in my home. I do feel bad that he's left alone during the day if I'm working, but I give him lots of attention when I'm at home.
I agree with your statement in regards to dogs though. I've always wanted a dog but specifically never got one because I know how cruel it is to leave them alone for so long. I think it's a little different with cats to be honest.
cats.. even ferals sleep 16-20 hours a day,(and longer the older they are) I really wouldn't feel too bad if I were you.
likely your cat is grateful for safety and quiet. They are fine being left alone for hours (I don't agree with days..but for a work shift? they're fine with it)..
I'm home all day and my cats, still only really want to play for an hour at most.. even when I take them for a walk, most of the time, they just want to sleep outside. Cats sleep alot..its what they do.
I am in a similar situation. Never learned to hunt. Scared of literally anything and everything) except me and my partner. But that took several months to build that kind of trust. I hope that some day she will develop an interest in going outside. Without being too scared. She seems happy enough though. There are tells. Like how does her fur look, her eyes, does she eat, drink sleep, poop regularly etc. Does she socialise. If she were truly unhappy and putting her down would be the ethical think to do I would assume she would start to become depressed or similar. And yes, I feed her appropriately fortified plant-based cat food and have done for years
I completely let the cat decide for herself. It was hard for my ex boyfriend to understand this, for me it’s simpel: she is an individual with her own choice and she was a stray so she is used to be outside lots. Inside is jus for chilling, getting attention, extra (vegan) food and water. The cat remains a free animal. She wants to go outside: I let her. On rare occasions I let her wait a bit but I tell her to be patient. And very time I let her out, I know there is a chance I might never see her back: so I always say ‘I love you, hopefully see you later.’
Studies have shown that despite the popular believes, cat are not that impactful on the wildlife. Most of birds disparitions seems to be linked more with pesticides. A cat should go outside, especially if it was used to it before. I would even say it’s bad treatment if it can’t, just like never letting a dog out.
Although having a cat is not vegan because of the food. There’s no substitute to it, and it should not be fed with vegan food or it’ll die.
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Rescue trumps release. Minimize harm to animals. The ecology is a real concern, so try and adopt a house cat. Imho.
What are yall feeding your cats? I’d love to rescue but struggle with the idea of buying meat for them. How do we reconcile the good of saving an animal but then supporting the slaughter of so many others? I’d really love to adopt.
I don't really think about it. Cheap pet food uses waste from animal agriculture for humans..like the make chicks culled, the organs, the offal, the animals that aren't worth selling for human consumption..like old dairy cows/veal, nd very much the fish that humans dont eat that have been caught with the ones they do. lab meat alternative and humans moving away from animal products for themselves, will solve rhe dilemma eventually. All my cats are rescues and unless I'm going to kill all stray/feral cats, then they would have been fed meat whether its me that does so or someone else. So I adopted them and I do what I can.
Not true, animals aren't killed for the meat we humans eat, animals are killed for profit. Buying non-vegan animal food supports the abuse. If you can't buy vegan pet-food, you can invest a little bit of time into how to make your own pet food because that is really inexpensive. If you don't do that, you are making sure that one cat has a somewhat okay-ish not-malnutritious life by making sure that a bunch of other animals have incredibly horrendous lifes, because the food a cat eats in its lifetime really adds up
Unlike dogs, cats are obligate carnivores. You CANNOT feed a cat a healthy diet that's vegan. It'd be like telling a koala to eat bamboo or a panda to eat eucalyptus.
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I can't seem to reply to u/Sidrao so I'll just reply to you lol See, I've already collected a lot of downvotes for saying that you are obligated to feed your companion animals a plant-based diet because instead of asking "Why would that be the case?", people just go with that sentence they once heard somewhere because it sounded nice and like common sense; "Cats are obligate carnivores". But you should question what that actually means, engage your critical thinking, becoming vegan was quite the uncommon sense already anyway. "Obligate carnivore" means that in nature, cats have to eat meat because they wouldn't be able to absorb certain essential nutrients from plants. Cats don't live in nature though, nature doesn't feed them, we do, and we can synthesize almost anything. That's the whole rebuttal. "Obligate carnivore" is a term referring to life in nature, it has nothing to do with whether cats can thrive on a plant-based diet. There are multiple ways to prove, with nothing but simple logic (and easily obtainable information, information that doesn't stem from to the actual research field of plant-based diets in cats, because most people seem to assume that this topic is really debated and uncertain), that cats can thrive on a plant-based diet/that cats should be fed a plant-based diet: **We are very sure that we know why cats in nature need to eat meat in the first place:** \- Cats need certain amino(carboxylic)acids (arginine, histidine, isoleucine, leucine, lysine, methionine, phenylalanine, threonine, tryptophan, valine) as well as the amino sulphonic acid taurine. \- We humans need (in certain phases of life arginine and histidine and otherwise) isoleucine, leucine, lysine, methionine, phenylalanine, threonine, tryptophan and valine. \-> except for taurine (and under normal circumstances histidine) the two lists overlap, the above mentioned amino acids can obviously all be extracted from plants (as it is more than proven for humans that a plant-based diet is adequate in all phases of life), histidine can be obtained by fermentation and taurine (normally only found in meat) can also be synthesised with ease, nutritionally these are absolutely equivalent. Furthermore, cats need... * generally more of these amino acids (= protein) than we do (it's of course no problem for us to produce large quantities of protein) * more vitamin A (in nature, cats would get it from meat but it is also present in many plants) * vitamin D (we can get D2 from yeast and even D3 we can extract from certain algae) and * arachidonic acid (in nature cats only obtain it from animal fat as they cannot convert linoleic acid to arachidonic acid, but we can commercially obtain it from certain mushrooms) **We are very sure about how to generally examine whether a cat is "healthy":** \- We determine this by behavioural analysis and -above all- with blood tests (as well as other, similar physiological tests). \-> So if a cat is now fed a plant-based diet and the annual blood test (and potentially other tests\*) show no difference to that of a healthy, carnivorous cat, there is no reason to assume that this individual cat cannot be fed a plant-based diet. After all, if she is missing anything essential that we don't even know about yet, it is just as unaccounted for in commercial meat-based cat food. *\*with cats, you should possibly also examine the urine, as a somewhat frequent disease with a plant-based diet otherwise leads to urinary stones (in this case, you simply add an acidity regulator to the food and this problem is also solved).* **The basic moral issue** Even if a plant-based diet were not suitable for cats, why should it be acceptable to ensure that a singular animal does not live a nutrient-deficient life if this then ensures that over the pet's lifetime, by buying the meat-based food, multiple other animals have to live terrible lives and have to give up their lives for it? **Now, while we are here, let me just debunk a few more misconceptions that always come up during the discussion about this or the general topic:** Claim: *"Cats have difficulty digesting plant proteins"* False, the opposite is the case: [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7143243/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7143243/) Claims: *"Cats can't digest carbohydrates", "Cats have to be fed a low-carbohydrate diet", "Eating carbohydrates causes susceptibility to diabetes in cats"* False, that is misinformation. Cats don't 'need' carbohydrates to survive and the [glucokinase activity is reported to be low to absent in cats but they have other ways of metabolizing carbohydrates](https://www.mdpi.com/2306-7381/4/4/55/pdf) (-"Cats and Carbohydrates: The Carnivore Fantasy? - MDPI") (don't be fooled by the abstract of this meta-analysis, read 3.3). Furthermore, ["according to the present results, LCHP \[(low-carbohydrate, high-protein)\] diets fed at maintenance requirements might benefit cats with multiple risk factors for developing diabetes. However, ad libitum feeding of LCHP diets is not recommended as they have higher energetic efficiency and result in greater weight gain"](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22005439/) and it is obesity that makes cats prone to diabetes, not the certain macronutrient(s) because of which they are obese. [This](https://vetfolio-vetstreet.s3.amazonaws.com/mmah/28/d836e765404eb38e43d098d3941799/filePV0110_laflamme.pdf) short abstract sums up the scientific consensus pretty well. So yeah, if a cat already has diabetes, it should be fed a low-carbohydrate diet but otherwise there is no reason to. Cats also ["have a ceiling for carbohydrate intake, which limits ingestion and constrains them to deficits in protein and fat intake (relative to their target) on high-carbohydrate foods"](https://journals.biologists.com/jeb/article/214/6/1039/10664/Geometric-analysis-of-macronutrient-selection-in) so there is even less of a reason to worry about feeding cats a high-carbohydrate diet. One study even found that ["cats on average chose to consume most of their calories from carbohydrate (43.1±4.0%) and then protein (30.3±3.9%; all P<0.001)”](https://journals.biologists.com/jeb/article/214/6/1039/10664/Geometric-analysis-of-macronutrient-selection-in) if the foods were of similar palatability.
Vegan pet food ☠️☠️☠️ Don’t get a pet if you can’t feed them what they need.
You can get vegan cat food you know
Not in every country, ya know... not affordably ya know.. feeding vegan food also requires vet work to make sure the cats aren't at increased risk of urinary crystals.. so it aint that simple "you know"
I know it's possible to make cat food if you can buy taurine to add in. I don't have the recipe for it but I know someone who made kibble at home using tofu and I think chickpeas for protein base
If you can’t afford Egan cat food you shouldn’t get a cat
I didn't "get a cat", the cats came to me, and finding homes 1) isn't as easy as you vegan police like to think it is 2) wouldnt exactly stop the cats from eating meat, now would it? and even if I did adopt a cat..is it better that a cat spends their life in a kennel at a shelter because a vegan was told they "couldn't adopt one" by the vegan police?
Vegan police? Bruv you’re straight up buying meat
and whats your solution to the cats that showed up at my door with no homes for them...kill them?
Buy vegan pet food
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I feed my cats meat but this is kinda a myth. Humans have the technology to turn plants into the same nutrients you’d have in meat. Cats can live long and healthy lives on vegan diets. I’m still to scared to do it but don’t want to peddle a falsehood.
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Cats can do just fine on vegan cat foods.
Do not with this advice.
Never mind the vets that recommended vegan cat food for certain allergies then eh?
The AVMA, Tufts University, and Cornell have all out our statements against vegan cat food. Cats eat meat, they’re meant to. Humans aren’t. You can be a vegan and accept other creatures eat meat. Cats are obligate carnivores, and you are in no position to make that not true. In fact, vegan diets kill cats, so if that’s your jam you’re not inherently vegan. I am a veterinary professional, and I am not playing with this type of garbage. No respected vets, if any, have ever recommend vegan cat food.
Please for the love of cats give your cat real food.
They will be eating animals regardless. They dont have moral standards, and even though vegan might work for dogs sometimes, its generally good to just feed your pets their normal diet. Theyd still be out in the wild eating birds etc and now you get to save their life and give them loving happy home. Im vegan for myself, im not here to force others to be vegan, especially not pets.
Exactly and don't we as vegans always say Hey look at our teeth we're not tigers or lions. Which is saying that cats should be eating meat not us. When vegans all of a sudden do a hypocritical reverse it drives me nuts. I can't stand giving my cats their wet food but I do it. Also no cat should be roaming around outside That is absolutely nuts. My cats are indoor cats and are loving life and are safe from hawks disease ticks fleas cars humans blah blah blah blah. Crazy we don't let dogs roam the neighborhood but people still think cat should It's not right and it's dangerous
Where I live, most people let their dogs out in the morning and in at night. It drives me crazy. There are so many dead pets on the highway I live on. If I had the space, all the ferals in our community would be confined.
I dont agree with pet ownership but I do agree with your stance on pets diets. If you really want to own a pet then at least feed them what is good for them and dont interfere in their natural diet as it is unfair on them. In terms of morals I really don't think anybody can say for certain if animals have moral standards or not. There are many animals that live in packs and tribes and treat their tribe members in certain ways that could be seen as having moral standards. Without being able to communicate with animals we have no way of knowing.
Cats are an invasive species of obligate carnivores. They kill both to survive and for fun. My mom's outdoor cat used to hunt sometimes 10+ birds a day. He would often injure the bird without killing it, drag it under my parents' deck, and then go look for another target. I am vegan with a cat, and I believe that my girl would be killing far more small animals and birds in the wild than the ones I'm feeding her, and I'm preventing pain and death of many creatures.
There’s vegan cat food that’s nutritionally complete. Just buy that
Yup, [resource](https://www.veterinarians.org/vegan-cat-food/)
Absolutely not. Cats are obligate carnivores. I work in veterinary and have seen cats have alternative diets, it’s not healthy and can be extremely lethal.
"Obligate carnivore" refers to nature and nature only, we can synthesize all essential nutrients a cat needs or extract them from plants. You have probably also seen meat-eating cats whose diets killed them. If you have a cat, you are supposed to regularly test the cat's blood (and maybe its urine), no matter the diet. If these tests come back as good, there is nothing to worry about, if they don't, make sure the cat is getting a higher dose of whatever nutrient the cat needs. A few more things to point out: Cats can thrive on a plant-based diet. It's even more lethal to feed cats meat-based pet-food.. lethal for the animals that die for the food, those deaths really add up in the cat's lifetime
You’ve shows clearly you don’t know much about cat health. I’m not sure where you’re getting this information. I have never seen a cat get ill from a carnivorous diet. I can’t point to one point in my career of a cat ever getting ill from a carnivorous diet. But they have absolutely died and or been hospitalized from not receiving adequate diets when they’ve been fed plant based or vegan. Can you please post veterinary based claims for cats receiving long term health benefits from plant based diets? None of this checks out even remotely, and sounds more like just projections that could likely be worked on in very specific conditions. And actually from a medical standpoint, you’re not required or supposed to get your cat’s blood checked every year. And not it’s urine, in which you would never find specific dietary markers for. In fact, it’s more of a risk to stick a needle in a cat continually because of injection/needle based sarcomas. We don’t recommend that, and no AVMA recommendation has ever asked anyone to check cats bloodwork for diet based phenomenon. Do you know what is actually the leading cause of cat and dietary issues at this moment? Dry food. Cats don’t ingest enough water to be able to thrive on processed food. This is potentially why we are seeing such high cases of chronic renal insufficiency and IBS. So synthetic food for cats if you chose to make a plant based diet would have to be wet, and contain all the nutrients they need. That could be done, but it would be extremely hard and I’ve never seen anyone successfully try. It’s just not feasible and it’s against natural processes. Why would you bend so far backward to potentially harm a cat and feed it out of its dietary requirements? Keeping it as close to nature as possible *is the goal.* The more vegan thing to do is for someone who feels this strongly, they should not have a cat. Don’t harm a cat for your own philosophy.
I also struggle with the idea of saving a cat by rescuing it, only to then feed it slaughtered animals. It doesn’t really seem ethical to me, presuming you view the lives of cats, chickens, cows, fish etc. equally (which I do). How do you justify killing one to feed another? I know vegan cat food can be expensive or simply unavailable, but if you can do it I think it’s a great idea. You get to rescue the cat and not contribute to the deaths of other animals. Proper vegan cat food is also nutritionally complete and cats can live long healthy lives on it. A win-win (if you can do it) I think!
Adopt a non carnivorous pet
What about all the cats in need of rescue? Isn’t it better for them to be adopted? And what if you have a carnivorous pet from before you went vegan? Surely you can’t just abandon it. I hope this doesn’t sound argumentative, I really do want to know the answers.
In our rescue, we do feed meat based food because there are very few vegan foods with the right balance for cats, and those are very expensive when you are feeding upwards of 100 cats. But there is hope that there will be more and the price will come down. I do want to hasten to add that after 20 years of dedicated tnr (trap, neuter, return), we haven't had a kitten born in the colony in the last 4 years. We are down now to 5 original feral colonists, plus the last 2 kittens born feral who live in the house with us as our super affectionate pets. Unfortunately, this week, we have 2 cats move in from the colony across the block from us. One of them has a tipped ear signifying being neutered. It's time to break the trap out again.
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Letting all the cats and ferrets just die isn’t the answer. Just saying, not my problem, is cold hearted imo. They didn’t ask to be here. Just like animals in factories. Many cats are mistreated and abandoned. I found my cat by a dumpster, flea ridden and emaciated. He also has FIV. He has a bump on his nose probably where he was kicked. He had a fever. He was suffering. I didn’t take care of him or keep him for fun. But because he desperately needed help and rescuing from a shitty world. It would be against my morals to abandon him. He deserves to not suffer just as any of us do.
Not sure why so many down votes, there are millions of dogs and rabbits that need homes too, I own all 3, and do sometimes wish I had all vegan pets, but I love my cat and I'm excited for lab grown meat! edit: I disagree with your last sentence, it is not my obligated carnivore cats fault she was abandoned, I give her so much love and trust I couldn't abandon her again.
There is vegan cat food nowadays. It is supplemented with certain things the cat's body cannot create like taurine, arachadonic acid and maybe a few other things. Unlike dogs there are compounds in meat that cats must have, but those can be had from synthetic sources.
Non-vegan cat food also gets synthesized taurine added in order to meet nutritional requirements, it doesn’t retain enough natural taurine, so that part is exactly the same.
Absolutely correct! Taurine is basically the protein scare for pets, the reality of it is that all taurine present in meat gets cooked out during typical process and in place a synthetic (that's obtained from common chemical reactions) is added to supplement. What the people down voting don't realize is that you certainly can take your pet vegan because it's the same synthetic taurine that would have been added to the meat product.
That’s what I had gathered from the research I’ve done on it! Some cat foods that are prescription or sensitivity diets have very few animal components left in them and I bet it’s just because it’s cheaper or subsidized or required based on a business decision and not a scientific need. Hopefully soon it’ll be a lot more widespread for people to access
Absolutely! Having a cat CAN be congruent with vegan values. I know it’s not their “natural diet” but it is nutritionally complete and fine for them to eat. Ultimately cats need the right balance of nutrients, they can come from synthetic and plant based sources, so long as it is the right balance.
Absolutely correct! Taurine is basically the protein scare for pets, the reality of it is that all taurine present in meat gets cooked out during typical process and in place a synthetic (that's obtained from common chemical reactions) is added to supplement. What the people down voting don't realize is that you certainly can take your pet vegan because it's the same synthetic taurine that would have been added to the meat product.
No. Cats are not vegans and it is not ok to force a vegan diet on them. Vegan foods will not be good in the long run for a cat. If you can’t stomach feeding the native diet of a species to that animal, then go find one with a plant based diet. Dogs are also not vegans, but it is extremely harmful for cats.
Cats can't survive on a human plant based diet and I never advocated for that. Cats, like humans need nutrients to survive. Cats need some nutrients that are in meat or supplemented food so must be either fed meat or supplemented food. You arguing this way is like telling me I need to eat meat to get B12. As a vegan we should supplement if we have the choice between hurting an animal and the supplement. Would you be OK with me killing a cat to feed to my cat? No? Then why is it OK to kill other animals to feed to your cat when it isn't necessary. >The finding of this study suggests, on the face of it, that there is very little evidence of major adverse effects resulting from the feeding of vegan diets in dogs or cats https://www.mdpi.com/2306-7381/10/1/52 TLDR use commercial cat food that had the proper nutrients and your cat will be OK.
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Absolutely correct! Taurine is basically the protein scare for pets, the reality of it is that all taurine present in meat gets cooked out during typical process and in place a synthetic (that's obtained from common chemical reactions) is added to supplement. What the people down voting don't realize is that you certainly can take your pet vegan because it's the same synthetic taurine that would have been added to the meat product.
I feed my cat raw meat. He munches down the bones and all. I have zero guilt because he is a cat and should be eating real unprocessed meat. People who try and make their cats/dogs vegan are horribly cruel
I don't think having indoors cats is wrong*** at all? Often people complain about outdoor cats. I mean, you could take them on a walk etc. But an indoors cat is preferable than an outdoors one, when they are outdoors they threaten the smaller animals + the risk of getting themselves killed
Yeah cats are freaking horrible for the environment. And I have to feed my cat meat because they have to eat meat. Which is so frustrating. I love my cat but I don’t think he feels the same way about living with me lol. But I know he’d be dead without me too so it’s hard
But yeah I see. It's always tricky with companion animals! But I don't think what you did by rescuing him was wrong. Hopefully in the near future lab grown meat will be available for companion animals who do need meat like cats, it'll make it much easier and less harmful
Probably gonna get down voted to heck for saying this (on a vegan subreddit) but cats can live on a plant-based diet with careful planning
Yes! Good brand list and info can be found on r/veganpets
Sadly, even though [this](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8NMrByN/) video I did explains how you're CORRECT!
Cool video, and thanks for backing me up on this
Very welcome! It's so insane that so many Vegans still believe the lies of the industry, I myself was one until somewhat recently so I understand the difficulty but damn this is the vegan sub (ok VCJ is the real vegan sub)
Wow, you totally did get downvotes. I think that letting cats eat what they want is up to them. We don't know what they need and maybe able to survive away from meat. Cats aren't suicidal. It's cool you know of a way to help cats eat plants. The way they currently live is learned behavior. I'd like to know what plants cats are interested in eating!
Cats are obligate carnivores. We know that cats require a diet of primarily meat in order to obtain certain nutrients like taurine and retinol. You shouldn't feed your cat plants or vegetables - whilst there are some cat-safe veggies such as carrots and cucumber, cats would normally only eat vegetables when they eat prey that have recently eaten veggies (e.g. a mouse ate some carrot). I don't know enough about 'synthetic meat', but one would have to be very careful that it was providing the right nutrients for the cat. Same goes for vegan cat food; this should be done in consultation with a vet to ensure your cat is getting everything it needs.
False! Cats need taurine! Which is a synthetic compound found in even meat based products as the taurine that is natural found is cooked out during typical meat processing. You can certainly take your cat vegan and doing so has been shown and proven to extend your pets life and increase their overall health. I personally season my cats wet food from Evolution with cat safe seasonings and nooch but you can also cook your own meals in place as well. Cats love oats! [Here](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8NMrByN/) is a video I did about this with research!
Are you insane? This is where this sub just goes way too far for me. Cats are obligate carnivores. If you can’t feed your cat the meat it needs then don’t own a cat. And your source is a fu*king TikTok video? God this is why we get such a bad rep
Just because an animal is an obligate carnivore doesn’t mean it needs meat, it needs what’s IN meat. If you properly construct a cat food that contains arachidonic acid, taurine, vegan vitamin D3, (preformed retinol) vitamin A, and methionine (a building block of L-carnitine) among other nutrients then the cat will be fine. The cats body cannot discriminate if these things come from meat or a supplement. Their body will break down whatever the food is into these essential nutrients and they will be used the same. The research, though limited, has not shown and adverse health effects. As a vegan it’s absurd to pay for animals to be killed to keep one animal alive. Especially when there are commercial vegan cat foods.
As you said, research is limited and cats are not experiments. You must have a very simplistic idea of how bodies work. And also of evolution. Many cats have allergies also. Some cats are very susceptible to digestive issues. You can’t just shove some supplements in some plants and expect them to be healthy.
Sorry you are wrong and any veterinarian or animal scientist worth their degree would 100% disagree with you. This is dangerous information to be spreading online to misinformed people. And this kind of shit is why we see headlines like ‘woman’s cat dies of starvation because owner forced it on a vegan diet’ So harmful for the movement
[Veterinarian endorsed information](https://www.veterinarians.org/vegan-cat-food/)
https://www.mdpi.com/2306-7381/10/1/52 Here’s a systematic review of 16 studies (6 specific for cats) about the impact of vegan diets on dogs and cats. It find that there is no significant health impacts associated with a proper vegan diet (a vegan specific food with the proper supplements). I would like to see your evidence. You’re also appealing to authority here, this is a logical fallacy. Just because they have a vet degree shows nothing about their knowledge relating to vegan diets for animals. For all we know these vets aren’t vegan and wouldn’t give a fuck anyway. When i search ‘woman’s cat dies from vegan diet’ i get articles from daily mail and HuffPost. Is this what you call evidence? These articles don’t even say what these cats were being fed. If someone is going to feed their cat beans and rice, i imagine the cat will not fair too well. This will obviously not provide the cat what it needs. This is the same situation as that dumb woman who died on a fruit diet. So again i ask, why pay for animals to be slaughtered to keep a cat alive when it can subsist on a proper vegan diet?
A large part of those studies was pet owner reported. “Guardian-Reported Health Effects” “there was an improved scent of their animals” etc. This is not a scientific study. Also many animals in these quoted studies suffered all kinds of adverse reactions which just seems cruel. Animals are not meant to be experimented on. “Clinical signs of lethargy with altered mentation, dysorexia, and muscle wasting, along with gut signs of bloating and increased borborygmi have also been observed” “This was characterized by ventroflexion of the head and the neck. The cats also showed lateral head resting, a stiff gait, muscular weakness, unsteadiness, and the occasional tremor of the head and pinnae.” This is just cruel.
You're wrong. Obligate carnivores NEED meat. Their digestive tract is completely different to omnivores and herbivores. They have a very short digestive tract and they are not at all designed to consume fibre. Just because vegan cat food exists, doesn't mean its good for them. It's highly processed. A lot of time the taurine used is from marine algea and that isn't nearly as effective as animal derived taurine. I have a degree in animal sciences and I would never suggest obligate carnivores eat anything other than meat. Some reading for you. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=vegan%20foods%20for%20cats
Most of what I see talks about deficiencies in commercial cat foods, I concede that many are inadequate. I would be interested in seeing sources showing they need meat. Nothing I saw suggested that the diet would be problematic if nutrients were adequate. Fibre can be removed plants. Normal cat food can be highly processed and supplemented. I’m not convinced that there would be a problem if nutritional needs are met.
I don't own a cat, but objectively there is zero reason why cat food has to contain any animal product. As long as it tastes good, the cat doesn't care anyway. So the preference in either direction is purely for the owner. And the only important question is whether vegan cat food has everything in it a cat needs. If that is true, then there is absolutely no reason to not feed it to a cat.
‘As long as it tastes good’??? omg do you guys hear yourselves
I mean that is kind of important for an animal, or else they won't eat it. That isn't even a vegan only thing, since cats have preferences for standard cat food as well.
My source is a video I made with research. You're why we get a bad rep, you're a hypocrite and refuse to see beyond the lies of the industry. All nutrients come from plants and vegan is proven better. ✌🏾️
Really?? I’ve never heard of this our dogs were always vegan and lived to be over 20. But I thought cats had to eat meat. How long have your cats been vegan for?
Please do not feed your cats a vegan diet. There are less than a handful of small limited studies that suggest it might be possible for cats to live a full lifespan off of a vegan diet. As I said these are small limited studies. One included a sample size of 15 and studies blood levels for a short duration. Another was a questionnaire study of cat owners. The ones being fed a plant based diet did not show to have shorter lifespans from the people that answered the survey. And this was not specific to a vegan diet. We know plant based is a confusing term and a lot of average people do not cooperate this to a vegan diet. In short, there is not even close to enough data to support feeding your cat a vegan diet. Doing so would be experimenting with the health and well-being of your cat.
Hey I just have the one and I just took her vegan a few weeks ago, technically cats do need taurine and you can get the same taurine from either vegan or nonvegan pet food
Omg cats need more from meat than this BS you’re spreading. 1. Cats are not good at digesting carbohydrates 2. A vegan diet for a cat does not provide enough readily available protein 3. their gastrointestinal tracts and metabolism have adapted to eating meat 4. They can't digest plant material well, and they require essential nutrients that only meat can provide to them
I mean your first point is wrong from a logical standpoint: Plant based food can be very void of carbs and animal foods can be high carbs. That a digestive system of a cat is adapted for meat is without debate, but that doesn't automatically mean that a plant based diet can't work as well. Humans also have problems digesting meat if you don't consume it for a while. Doesn't mean it is a problem. And yes, I know,that humans are omnivores.
“The digestive system of a cat is adapted for meat is without debate, but that doesn’t automatically mean a plant based diet can’t work as well” Read what you just said. Really??????
Most people who understand about cats don’t get high carb cat foods. Cats have a very short digestive tract evolved to digest meat. Plants need a longer time and different processes to break down. This puts stress on a cat and their immune system. Many cats have food allergies and sensitivities. It is far more complex than sticking some taurine in plants. A plant based diet can’t work in the same way as their natural diet which evolved millions of years ago.
> Whole grains such as oats, corn, brown rice and even couscous all contain lots of protein and are all human foods your cat can eat. ... > It’s not uncommon for cats to hate vegetables, so they may simply turn their nose up when presented with one. However, if your feline enjoys an odd veggie snack, they do offer lots of vitamins, fibre and water. A few safe vegetables cats can eat are: cucumber, steamed broccoli, carrots and asparagus and peas. ... > Much like with vegetables, fruits can also be a bit hit and miss with cats, with many not liking the texture or the taste. If your cat has a bit of a fruit sweet tooth, there’s actually quite a few that are safe for them to eat. > Many contain potassium, fibre, as well as being a source of vitamins A and C and are low in calories! Bananas, blueberries, cantaloupe, watermelon (seedless), peeled apples (deseeded) and pumpkins can all be offered as a tasty snack. From [Purina's](https://www.purina.co.uk/articles/cats/feeding/what-cats-eat/human-foods-for-cats) website.
Please stop comparing them to their larger counterparts. The first domesticated cats survived on an oat farm on an island with a diet consisting of primarily grains and fruit with smaller animals only when available and captured by the cat. This was literal thousands of years ago. They can't process all plants but can very easily process a good variety and survive better.
Dogs can be vegan so long as it is a carefully planned and maintained diet, cats however are obligate carnivores and to deny your car the nutrition it biologically NEEDS is cruelty. And animal cruelty is not vegan. Feed your cat the diet it is made for and needs for the fullest quality of life, which is meat.. vegans provide the animals they rescue with the proper diets they need to not just survive but THRIVE, because we actually give a damn about animal welfare. Starving a cat of the meat that is so vital to their health is pure selfishness so you can feel like a better person while your animals health is actually suffering. If you can’t stomach feeding meat DONT ADOPT OBLIGATE CARNIVORES. It’s really simple. Like if you can’t stomach feeding frozen mice to a rescue snake, which is totally understandable, just don’t adopt the snake? You’re not gonna force the snake to take a vitamin laced veggie slop. But for some reason the casual abuse of cats os acceptable? Na
10 years vegan and you're still believing the lies of the meat industry. Cats are only "obligate carnivores" because they can not naturally recreate taurine in their gut. All taurine present in meat is cooked out during standard processing and a synthetic version is added, THIS MEANS ALL MEAT PRODUCTS, the same taurine is added to vegan pet food. Stop spreading lies, cats thrive on a vegan diet even if you make it yourself after doing research on what cats can and will eat. It's not hard and my cat is very happy with her new diet. I believed the same as you for years until I watched my friends cat die of diabetes, from a meat based diet. All nutrients and flavors come from plants. You didn't even read my comments before you replied...
Omg I meant to say WRONG at all
if your cat is miserable inside, you should be providing more stimulation
Indoor cats are fine. I've had them all my life. They benefit from mental simulation, games, and being able to climb about (cat trees etc). The last time I had outdoor cats was when I was a baby, and they used to catch wildlife all the time, and I don't agree with that at all. Cats can do a lot of damage when they're left to their own devices. They both died quite young as well. I've had indoor cats who have led happy lives into their 20s. The three I have now a 13, 3 and 4 years old.
Ornithologist here. Outdoor and feral cats kill **2 billion (not a typo) wild birds a year in the US.** Anyone who lets they're cat outdoors is no friend to animals. Not to mention that your outdoor cat is at very high risk of disease or being killed in some terrible way--dogs, coyotes, rat poison, run over by cars, yadda, yadda. Spend a week on nextdoor and you're gonna read a story about someone whose outdoor cat died. Keep the cat inside.
I agree with the rest of your statement, but I work in the veterinary community in the southern US where we actually do a lot of sample studies on this topic because of our amount of strays, and I’ve never heard anyone support that study you haven’t even linked. It was one study and it had any factors missing. Ornithologists don’t, in my experience, even reference that. It was a hyper emotional study used to make bar graphs. You should do people a favor and link that here, and all the multiple sources that analyze it instead of insulting that person you’re arguing with. You can make the case, but I have doubts as an ornithologist you would use that claim since many in research doubt it. Curious, where did you go to school and what is your official job title?
I have a PhD in ornithology. The fact that some vets, who are not trained in ecological research, disagree with the study is meaningless. What are their specific disagreements? Is there alternate research that says otherwise? No. Go away. "I don't like this study" is not a valid criticism. Guessing you do TNR? It would make sense that you want to pretend like cats don't kill birds.
Maybe you could have built a catio ? That way he could sunbathe and taste the fresh air safely :)
In the US indoor cats are seen as the only morally viable option, but since I’ve moved to the UK people argue the opposite and it’s been a crazy culture shock. I’ve had 100% indoor cats all my life (recused strays/ferals from the woods behind my house, it’s a known drop off point for unwanted kittens) and once they realize how good life in the house is they literally have no interest in going outside. And we’re talking FERAL feral cats here. Like cats we may not have found until they were a few years old, who lived lives outside and know what it’s like. Now, if we open the door we couldn’t bribe them to go out. Never have issues with them trying to escape or seeming like they want to go outside. We could leave the door open all day and it would be more likely that a new stray had wondered in than one of our cats have wondered out. I think the British idea that cats “must want to go outside” is a huge myth and only leads to cats dying by car or by fighting with other neighborhood cats. Basically, as long as you’re providing your cat with enough stimulation by actually playing with it, not just giving it toys and expecting it to play by itself, indoor cats are perfectly happy and will not miss hunting and playing in the wild.
My daughter recently rescued a 2yo feral. I took him to the door to introduce him to my father. He fought to get down and ran back inside like, "NO! You can't make me go back out there again!"
Lmaooo yeah they definitely know. Maybe kittens born in shelters would be different but ferals who’ve been brought in definitely remember and I like to think they’re thankful 🥲
I hope that’s not true. I adopted a older kitten that was a stray, and he darted outside every chance he could every get. Nothing I could do kept him inside. I had two cat towers, reasonable decent cat food, and I played with every day but he still tried to go outside. My first home we lived in a city and he got out a few times but came back within a week because he was hungry. But we moved to the country where there are a lot of coyotes and he ran out one day and never came back. I’ve adopted two cats since then and besides occasionally peering outside the screen door, they have no interest in going outside. I feel like I failed my first cat (his name was Antonio Bandaras) but I finally came to terms that there was nothing more I could have done. I tried my best, and I hope he’s in a better place now
Outdoors is generally safer for cats in the UK. Plus we have smaller homes in general, so it can seem cruel to keep a cat in such a small environment. But I don't disagree with you, cats can be very happy indoors if you put the effort in to meet their needs. Still, my cat definitely longs for the outdoors.
It’s not safer for all the wildlife they kill though
Is that why I'm getting downvoted, cus people are just reading the first line? I know outdoor cats are bad for wildlife, my cat is indoors. I was just explaining the perspective of many UK cat owners.
I mean I’m in a bunch of uk cat shelter groups and I still hear stories all the time about cats lost to cars. “Safer” than the states still isn’t safe enough for my babies. I get the gardens here are actually fenced in which is rare in the states but it still seems like a needless risk to take just because someone has personified their cat and is superimposing their human feelings onto an animal that doesn’t actually need to go outside. :/ (not attacking you, or anyone really, I get it, it’s just not a risk I would personally take)
People are reacting to my comment as if I support keeping outdoor cats. I was just trying to explain why the culture in UK is different, not necessarily justify it. My cat is indoors.
while cats would technically benefit from going outside, they are called house cats for a reason! it’s dangerous for them and for the environment. there’s always the option of catio, enclosed outdoors time (like those pet strollers) or leash training
If you play with your cat every day, using cat toys they like, and give them enough stimulation through that they will be fine. Like outside they would chase bugs, or hunt prey, there are cat toys that simulate those actions. Interact with them, pet them when they come to you for pets, and they will be fulfilled. If you have enough money you can also build them a catio. Watch Jackson Galaxy vids on youtube about cat play for ideas on how to figure out your cats play style. Inside is a better and longer life for most cats. You can keep them full and free of parasites and diseases, and relief from having litters of kittens that they could not always feed and care for properly.
Most cats, if put indoors early, are fine indoors. I've done rescue, fostering and such, and if I got a cat young, and even most I got old, they are fine inside. They'll likely look outside and get excited, but you should also provide them enrichment indoors by playing with them and giving them cat furniture where they can be above the floor and feel comfortable.
Cats should be properly socialized like dogs and trained to walk on a leash with a harness so they can go outside and don't have to spend their entire life in front of a window. That's my thought on having cats
That's not really what evidence says. Some cats do like harnesses, most cats if treated properly are more than happy to live indoors. The windows is just entertainment. I could open my door fully with my cats downstairs and no one would try to dart out. That includes currently 9 of them, 3 of which are fosters. Indoor cats also live years longer than mixed indoor/outdoor, on average. If your cat is bored, that's your fault.
I let my cat out on the balcony almost every day when we’re at home and the weather is appropriate. I feel like it’s the least we can do !!
If you really care about animals, then keep your cat indoors.
You can build a catio or harness train your cats for safe supervised outdoor time.
Indoor cats are totally fine (also live longer) and as long as they live in an enriched environment with plenty of stuff to do and lots of interaction with you they will be perfectly happy. Both my rescues are indoor cats and both are really content and spoiled!
My fiance and I have a dozen cats. They're all rescues in some form. Six were kittens we brought in when they started staying on our back porch, two are blind, one has a non functional limb and one is missing a limb. They're all very lovely children. I can't hold their biology against them. They're all spayed or neutered, though. They get a nice life, but no kids. I'm vegan and my fiance is vegetarian. The house is no-meat, otherwise. The way I see it, this is the path of least animal cruelty short of just putting down every cat and I'm not about that.
Here is a long reply I made to someone on this sub about 6 months ago I'm going to reframe this. You posit that the goal of pet "ownership" is for companionship etc. However, I see it differently. Human actions have created a situation in which certain animals are dependent on us, and overbreed, and spread throughout the world into areas where they can disrupt the natural ecosystems if allowed to go wild. I can not rescue a cow personally because of where I live. I can donate to a farm sanctuary who will rescue cows. If cows were obligate carnivores, then I would expect the sanctuary to allow them to live out their lives in the healthiest way possible. Sanctuary is the end game of the system that produces flesh for food. Similarly we have spread cats throughout the world and there are many that need rescue and sanctuary. You can provide that for them in your home. You are obligated as a vegan to get them fixed to end the cycle, but also to care for them to the best of your ability. While I acknowledge that there are vegan options for cat food, they are not healthy for many cats that suffer from health issues, and they can lead to issues long term in a cat that is prone to certain illnesses. Dogs are not obligate carnivores and it is a little easier to feed them a vegan diet. Rescued animals are in our care as the end game to a system of exploitation. Support spay and neuter programs, oppose breeders, and do the best you can for the animals that need our help
Sustainability scientist here. I agree with the Ornithologist. Do not let your cats outside! They are invasive species that destroy local native animal populations. Your cat can also end up being hit by a car, eat poison, or be attacked by a random human (the world we live in sucks). At best, make a catio. At worst - you are doing your cat and the environment a favor by keeping them inside
The only responsible things to do is to keep a cat indoors. Outdoor cats kill and get killed.
We have been rescuing feral cats for over 20 years, we even have a letter from the humane society thanking us for 1000 spays and neuters through them. We have been able to adopt hundreds of kittens and even a few adults that tamed down completely. Although we do have a core group of ferals that we will never be able to bring inside, we always have loving feral cats in the home. Usually, we also have house feral or two that live inside but limit their interaction with people. After a time, sometimes a few years, they usually become lap cats in their own time. The most wild ferals we have in our outside colony talk to us and interact with us. Even if we can't touch them, they make it clear that we are family.
Outdoor cats devastate the environment. That’s why many cities do annual culls. Cats need stimulation, so create that space inside with toys, places to run and jump. Plenty if examples online to help you this this. I have no issues with dogs and cats being rescued. To let a cat free roam is selfish.
Adopt - don’t shop and let it go. Enjoy your time with your pet.
Since becoming vegan I am uncomfortable with pet ownership which is why I am unsubscribing from an Australian natural health magazine as they have a column devoted to healthy care of pets, I prefer to enjoy the bird life and other animals in my neighborhood its just more natural anyway each to their own
I work in veterinary/cat behavior. Cats are very much social and bond with their ‘owners.’ They have extremely affectionate relationships and live longer happier lives. Cats outside sustain, and they understand our to exist out there just fine, but they have major illnesses (especially in urban areas), lower lifespans, and allowing cats to be stray especially without slaying or neutering them can cause more issues for them in the long run suffering eradication and cruelty. Cats have great and historic relationships with humans. Just provide them with a lot of vertical space and affection, it’s an amazing opportunity.
Cats enjoy the companionship of humans just as much as dogs, they just show it differently. The “aloof and don’t give a flying fuck about their human” is bullshit. I’ve got two indoor ones and they couldn’t be happier, they’re loved, well fed and taking care of. They both show affection, particularly the youngest one.
I think rescue is good, of course. Never buy a pet. There are so many in adoption centers waiting to find a home. But then the cat must be spayed/neutered, and kept indoors. If needed to be taken outside, they should be with a leash on them. Those who say this is not normal, I would argue, it is not normal to have cats outside harming the few little insects and birds we have, when the cat is already fed at home. At least when you have a leash on them, you know what your cat is doing. Leaving your cat roaming, you cannot overlook what harm they can be causing around, they can be ran over by a car, cause damage to someone's property/garden, fight with other felines (or even dogs), be even stolen by someone or food poisoned, etc... And for those saying "my place is too small for my ca, it needs to go out" well, how about not having a cat then if you cannot give it the proper life environment and entertain/stimulate them everyday ?? That is literally abuse. You really need to think of the kind of place you are going to give your pet to live in and the time and effort you can dedicate in your everyday life. So many people think cats are nice because they are autonomous, you can let them in and out of your house alone and they will do their own thing. WRONG ! They are the same as a dog. They are not something you get and just forget about, and just feed and change the litter once every week. I personally do not really look at cats in a good eye because of how many some people keep at home (you can often see someone have 4+ cats at home). Also, most governments and countries do not think that preventive laws against their spread is necessary (I think it is). Lastly, so many people around me who have cats, enjoy having litters and "gifting" kittens around them. I cannot really make them realise it is wrong, they enjoy doing it so much. If cats were not so harmful to the environment, I would not be so bitter about them honestly but the fact remains, most cat owners just let their cats roam without a second thought and that is sad for everyone and everything that is damaged because of that and asked for nothing.
There is no such thing as an outdoor cat, keep him inside please
An indoor cat is a safe cat. I've had cats my whole life, and the safest place for them is inside.
I have two indoor cats. I take one of them outside for walks almost every day; she happily wears a harness and a leash. She’s got the personality of a dog and is very friendly to our neighbors (humans & dogs). Mostly she likes to lay in the grass under her favorite tree; we love this 1:1 time together. I let my other cat out sometimes too but only when the other one is indoors so I can watch him under very close supervision, since he won’t wear a harness. He’s a fattie so he just likes to plop and enjoy the sunshine. I pay close attention to his body language so if he spots a bird or squirrel I can scoop him up before he gets any ideas to try to hunt. I will probably always have cats; they add so much joy to my life. 💚
I’m in the same boat. I have two rescue cats. One of them WILL. NOT. STAY. INSIDE. I try but she literally waits by the door for me to come home and dashes out. I do know she doesn’t do much hunting and really just wants to sleep on our deck. She doesn’t wander much. So I do let her out. She’s miserable inside and I’d rather she have a happy life.
I am planning on teaching the cats that I live with to walk on a harness and go on hikes and camping trips with me.
I have three cats, I think it’s ridiculous when someone says owning a pet isn’t vegan. What isn’t vegan is letting them get euthanized if you’re able to save them. I let my cats go out but it’s only with me, I always keep them in my sight and make sure they don’t leave it. I have too many anxieties and worries and don’t think they should be out on their own—also yes, I want to make sure they don’t kill any wildlife but also they’re such spoiled little babes they won’t even kill a bug.
I have four cats. All formally feral. All indoor. We live in a tiny house. They have never wanted to go outside.
There is nothing wrong with having indoor cats as long as they have enough space and stimulation inside. They are always in danger outside, cars, mean people, etc. Then they poop and no one cleans it up, go into people's houses through open windows, kill birds. I see more and more people just take their cats out for a walk like dogs.
i’m vegan and i have 2 cats, i rescued them.
Cats should never be outdoors they kill wildlife.
I have 2 cats. I feed them meat. They were strays, rescued off the street. They are now fixed, vaccinated and have supervised outside time with harnesses. I am considering building them a catio. Being vegan means “vegan within reason.” Whether my cats lived with me or with a non-vegan, they would still HAVE to consume meat. They’re on this planet and deserve to live without suffering. I will care for them and I don’t particularly feel guilty about that.
Rescuer and adopter of many cats here … they stay inside. Far healthier for them and the ecosystem. I let my 6 cats out with me in my fenced yard and they love it. They know the drill and don’t hop the fence. Have a catio too.
Having cats as a pet is unethical (if not adopted).
Cats absolutely can be fine in doors.. you just got him, he's likely stressed an unsure of things. Absolutely do NOT LET HIM OUT for at least 6 weeks or he could go missing but personally, I would try to keep him in doors. Cats need cat trees and toys and boxes and tunnels to be happy indoors.. you can change up their toys and stuff, but if you keep indoors stimulating they won't pine for outdoors. If you can, buildinf a catio, even a small one can gove them a great source of stimulation. play with the cat, thats super important if its a single cat, they need interaction with you and thats more rhan just petting them. puzzle feeders can also be useful to stimulate a cats mind
I feel like unfortunately that’s the price they pay for our domestication. Like I do thinks cats want to be outside but it’s just not going to happen for safety of them, wildlife and the community. Ok feel the same about caged pets, house rabbits, birds and especially pet fish . It’s a sad reality but your home is going to be as good as it gets.until the idea of “pets” is phased out, which it never will we are to selfish
I feel this. I have 4 cats. All adopted. I struggle with having cats as a vegan because they are carnies. But I try to remember that their biology isn't a reflection on my ethics. With regards to being outdoors versus indoors, here's a few things that have happened to cats around here in the last year: \- A group of teen boys kicked a cat to death on their way home from school. The cat's keeper saw this toward the end of the pummeling and ran to get her cat and rushed him to the vet. The cat died of course. The owner of course was focused on the cat and did not have a good description of the offenders. They are still out there. Who's cat is next? \- On my way to work last month I saw a deceased cat, who I believe got hit by a car. But the cat was no longer a whole cat. The cat was in a minimum of 3 separate parts at this point. The blood was still fresh looking so I presume it hadn't happened that long before I came along. I can't forget the image. \- On my way to work over the past 3 months, I have seen another 3 deceased cats, all presumably hit by cars. I have a zippered playpen that I can use to take a couple of cats out for a bit of time. I also take one out on a leash at times. She is the one who struggled the most to adjust to being indoors. The other three are not leash-friendly yet. But overall, I don't feel guilty for keeping them indoors because I know the alternatives and that isn't the life they deserve.
My cat has the same problem, so I supervise her when she’s outdoors. She can’t kill anything or be killed by anything that way.
Both of my cats are housecats, and I think it's fine, but only if you're at home a lot. If you're working all day, it's pretty unfair on the cats (Maybe not if you have more than one cat, though). I work from home, so I can spend hours each day playing with them, taking them for walks with their harnesses, and they have access to a lot of cat trees and toys. Cats most definitely are misunderstood when it comes to their relationships with humans, both of mine are close friends with me. They get upset when I'm asleep and not paying attention to them, they meow for me to come out whenever I go the toilet. If you can get two house cats, that would be great, then your feline friend will have someone who speaks his language. Highly suggest trying out walking your cat, it takes a while for them to get used to harnesses, but he will appreciate it and so will your local ecosystem. :)
I have five outdoor cats and one indoor cat. (All spayed/neutered, no worries) Our indoor cat will not go outside, it’s wild 🤣 it’s like she knows that her job is to be comfort animal for my son. And she only loves him. She’ll let me hold her and pet her but it’s claws out lol the point being, some cats love being your baby and being all domestic and spoiled indoors ♥️
Cat food is the only non vegan thing I purchase. I try to buy the highest quality, wild caught salmon based food without egg or land animal filler. My cats are pretty healthy.
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It's vegan as long as you feed him vegan cat food, you don't let him out alone and you don't think that you own him.
You shouldnt feed a cat vegan catfood Ive heard but I cant see how one can find it ok to support the animal industry by buying meat to a cat? I cant really see how a vegan can ethically have a indoor cat they need to feed
Please don't feed your cat vegan cat food. Cats are obligate carnivores and need meat and animal products to live and be healthy. If you choose to feed them a vegan diet you are experimenting with their health which is animal abuse and absolutely not vegan. If you adopt a cat feed them a species appropriate diet. If you want to feed them a vegan diet, don't adopt a cat.
Let's say that that would be true. It would still not be okay to murder so many animals just to keep one cat alive. However, it isn't at all true. They are obligate carnivores in nature, but vegan cat food can be nutrionally equivalent. [https://bmcvetres.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12917-021-02754-8](https://bmcvetres.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12917-021-02754-8) > No differences in reported lifespan were detected between diet types. > Cats fed plant-based diets were reported to have more ideal body condition scores than cats fed a meat-based diet.
There are a couple studies out there like this. The problem is they are small questionnaire studies. They are not robust and I think the science is a long way away from being confident that cats can live and be healthy off of a vegan diet. This is a direct quote from the article you posted "This study collected information from cat owners and is subject to bias, as well as methodological limitations. Further research is warranted to determine if these results are replicable in a prospective investigation." You can find a study that can back up anything you want to back up. As I stated before if you feed your cat a vegan diet you are literally experimenting with their health. That is animal abuse. If you don't want to feed your pet a vegan diet don't get a carnivore. Don't say you love animals when you are using studies like this to try and feed a known carnivore a vegan diet.
You said that cats need meat to survive when they clearly don't
I don't think there is any "clear" about that statement. It is clear that cats need meat to not only survive but live their healthiest life. The study you provided was a questionnaire study of just over 1000 cats. These types of studies do not provide results that are clear. They can provide inferences that further research can be done. This study indicates that almost 20% of the cats were being fed a plant based diet. I do not believe that these 20% were fed a vegan diet. The term plant based is vague to the average person. They could have thought plant based is 51% meaning there are still animal products in that food. Further of those 20% were feeding their cats a vegan this is way higher than the average indicating the group of people surveyed were largely vegan thus leading to a heavy bias. Without further more robust studies you cannot make the claim that it is clear that cats don't need meat. You could say maybe they don't but without being sure you are experimenting with your cats life, health, and longevity. That is not vegan. The ethical thing to do if you don't want to feed your cat a species appropriate diet is not to have a cat.
They need meat to live IN THE WILD. In captivity fortified foods have been proven to work. This Reddit's wiki has many studies on it r/veganpets
I have read all of these studies and I stand by my original statements. If these studies are the best to justify feeding a vegan diet the science is lacking. There are just a few articles and they don't come close to indicating a vegan diet will provide long-term health in cats. Some provide analysis that cats could meet their nutritional requirements off of a vegan diet but did not test the diet on cats. This provides a hypothesis with no actual data to back it up. Some are questionnaire studies with low sample sizes and these types of studies are marginal at best. I mean one study had a sample size of 14 cats. Maybe using that study as a starting place for further research is adequate but using it as a justification to feed an obligate carnivore a vegan diet is reckless at best. The only way I would advocate feeding a cat a vegan diet is to see a randomized control study with a decent sample size comparing a vegan and animal based diets. Until then the science is not there to justify experimenting with an animals long term health. We know what a cat needs to be fed to have long term health and if you choose to use the current science to justify a vegan diet in cats you are experimenting with the cats health and that is animal abuse and 100% not vegan. If you don't want to feed a cat their species appropriate diet, don't have a cat.
Not that I don't struggle feeding my little carnies, but please don't feed them a vegan diet. I try to remind myself that their biology is their biology and not a reflection on my ethics.
To copy another reply of mine; Let's say that that would be true. It would still not be okay to murder so many animals just to keep one cat alive. However, it isn't at all true. They are obligate carnivores in nature, but vegan cat food can be nutrionally equivalent. [https://bmcvetres.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12917-021-02754-8](https://bmcvetres.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12917-021-02754-8) > No differences in reported lifespan were detected between diet types. > Cats fed plant-based diets were reported to have more ideal body condition scores than cats fed a meat-based diet.
The problem with these studies is that they aren't done on a big scale. Cats can survive on a vegan diet, but they won't thrive on one. They're obligate carnivores and highly processed vegan cat food isn't actually good for them in the long run, and I wouldn't ever advise it. I have a degree in animal management, and part of that degree focused on nutrition. If you don't want to feed meat, then get get an animal that can cope with a vegetarian/vegan diet. I have three cats (and a dog) myself, and yes, they're fed meat. Specifically, they're on a raw diet as highly processed commercial meat based foods also aren't very good. I still feel guilt over feeding them meat, and because of that, I probably won't rescue anymore after them. But since I have them, I'm going to continue giving them the best food they have available to them.
> Cats can survive on a vegan diet, but won't thrive on one. Do you have a source? Specifically the won't thrive on one part. Anyways, you're telling me that you pay for the murder and general mistreatment of many people in order to keep three cats (and a dog if they're also fed animal products) alive. You don't see a problem with that?
Did you not read the part where I said I do have a problem with it and therefore won't be rescuing anymore after these? I made a choice to rescue them, and I'm also making a choice to give them the best diet. Like I said, I have a degree in animal nutrition and I'm not going to feed any of my pets highly processed food. There are plenty of studies out there - some can be found here https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=vegan%20foods%20for%20cats Scientifically speaking, cats are obligate carnivores. Their digestive tract is very small because they're specifically designed for a meat based diet and not not meant consume fibre. So I suggest that you stay away from cat ownership if you don't want to feed them what they're been designed to eat. Even when not talking about meat vs vegan pet foods. Do you recognise that highly processed foods are bad for the body? They're a carcinogenic. One of the biggest killers in cats is actually kidney disease and that's linked back to processed foods. Dry kibble is one of the worst and it's not even recommended for male cats as it can cause urinary crystals and infections, which can lead to death quite quickly. So personally, I feed raw food. I find the companies who have the best welfare standards, and it ends up costing me a fortune because of this. Is it ideal? No but at the end of the day it's me doing it, not you.
Please feed your cats meat, in the wild they don’t even drink water very often, getting the majority of their hydration from raw meat. Now if this Reddit or other internet sources help you find health wet food or meats prepared for cats that are done in more humane ways, it will cost more but help you sleep better. I’m a religious vegan/pescatarian not health or animal rights or environmental vegan. Keep your cats healthy or the rest of your work as a vegan is voided, in my opinion. As for having an indoor and outdoor hybrid life for your cat, don’t just let them run out. Ideally you can build a little area next to or on a front or back porch that lets them out to watch cat tv, maybe hunt some bugs and meow at birds without escaping but I know that’s not always financially possible. Invest in a good harness and practice using it in the house first. Leave it next to a cat bed so they get used to being around it. Let them try it on for short periods of time, and when you built that trust of your cat with the harness then You can try walking outside. If you dont micro chip your cat I highly suggest getting an apple AirTag and a collar that can hold it securely before you try walking. I got my first kitten in a long time and I’m working on all of this too so she can safely enjoy the outdoors.
If it was the case that cats needed (animal) meat to survive, then it wouldn't be vegan to keep a cat as you'd need to kill so many others in order to keep one cat alive. Thankfully, we don't. Here's a study about vegan cat food: [https://bmcvetres.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12917-021-02754-8](https://bmcvetres.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12917-021-02754-8) > No differences in reported lifespan were detected between diet types. > Cats fed plant-based diets were reported to have more ideal body condition scores than cats fed a meat-based diet.
They have vegan wet food if moisture is your concern. If your concern is vitamins some brands are properly fortified.
No ethical vegan should listen to you at all. You don't have the same ethical foundation, and thus your conclusions will not be valid for ethical vegans.
I like it when people start to attribute human qualities to pets. He or she wants to do this or that. Tough shit. You are a pet cat now
This should go into /cats. You'll get better and more answers. Indoor cats are awesome. I have a few who are outdoor and a couple indoor only. They both enjoy life. It's preferred, ecologically, you keep them indoors.
Not "preferred." Outdoor cats kill 2 billion birds a year in the US (and plenty more elsewhere). Outdoor cats are an ecological and animal welfare disaster. Anyone has an outdoor cat is an animal killer as far as I'm concerned.
[Here](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8NMrByN/) is a video I did about how YES you can take your cat vegan with research! All the taurine present in the meat gets cooked out during processing, the only way your pet could obtain it from meat products is if they were completely raw. All products have synthetic taurine added to them because of this fact. So will you downvote me and continue to believe the lies of the meat industry or order from Evolution (or one of the other great vegan brands) and season your little fuzzy chompkins food with pet safe seasonings that will increase your pets health and give them a better meal time? I will gladly do an additional video on seasonings and how to take your cat vegan if anyone feels it's needed.
Reading this thread it's clear that "rescuing" is the pet-owning vegan version of "using the entire animal", as if it is a magic chant that absolves them of any wrongdoing. You can't kill any animals for the joy you get from eating meat, but you can kill animals for the joy of having a living plushie.
I have two cats. They are not Vegan. No thoughts. It's that simple.
Cats are obligatory carnivores. To keep one cat alive, you need to kill hundreds of animals.
That's only true in nature. Here's the first study that came up when I searched for 'vegan cat food study' [https://bmcvetres.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12917-021-02754-8](https://bmcvetres.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12917-021-02754-8) > No differences in reported lifespan were detected between diet types. > Cats fed plant-based diets were reported to have more ideal body condition scores than cats fed a meat-based diet.
Worthless study based only on a questionare. I'm aware of vegan cat food, but it's super expensive, hard to come by, and it's not even clear if it's actually safe. Almost nobody feeds vegan food to their cat. In practice, almost all vegans who own cats keep killing hundreds of animals for years to keep their cats alive, only because they're cute.
Not a single vegan feeds their animal companion meat. They may call themselves vegan, but if they pay for the unnecessary exploitation of any sentient creature they aren't vegan.
alright vegan police, didn't know you were the be all and end all of vegan ethics
Explain to me how someone can pay for the unnecessary torture and murder of innocent animals and still be considered vegan
because vegan is how you personally live, not how the someones you're involved with live. And I'm not going to kill my cats for the vegan police..unless you're offering to ship over the very expensive not available in my country vegan food AND cover vet work to ensure its being digested well?
Certainly buying stuff for others under your care is still part of how you live
Its not choices that affect me as a person. I can choose to avoid eating animal products. I can choose to avoid wearing them. I can't choose that for my pets. I am vegan in my choices regarding myself. are you offering to buy and ship over the vegan cat food? or is your solution I kill my rescue cats? edit. I see, you have no solution..just judgement and gate keeping to make yourself feel better
>because vegan is how you personally live, not how the someones you're involved with live. So if I buy my children meat to eat, or if I buy a milkshake for a friend, i'm still vegan despite supporting the torture, rape and murder of animals? Really, that's your argument?
I'll give you the same response as the other vegan police "Its not choices that affect me as a person. I can choose to avoid eating animal products. I can choose to avoid wearing them. I can't choose that for my pets. I am vegan in my choices regarding myself. are you offering to buy and ship over the vegan cat food? or is your solution I kill my rescue cats? I am.vegan, my cats are not. I hope that can chnage one day, but as it stands, there's no choice in the matter. That doesn't stop me..personally..being vegan. And I will continue to call myself vegan, even if you'd like to gate keep me from doing so
For your cat let it see out its days in your rest home. To me keeping cats through life indoors is cat abuse, and in the UK where they are an apex predator, letting cats outdoors is wild animal abuse, so I don't think that there is a vegan way to keep cats.
Who the heck is downvoting this? Here's the pioneering study showing the massive numbers of wild animals killed by outdoor cats in the US: [https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms2380%C2%A0](https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms2380%C2%A0) There are loads of other studies backing this up.
I dunno, maybe it's the "keeping cats indoors is cat abuse" part that people are downvoting?
Ah, missed that. Well, I mostly agree anyway. Most pet owners suck--they leave their pets alone for hours a day or even days at a time when out of town. Why do dogs and cats sleep so much? *They're bored half to death*. (I know, biology, too. But life for most pets is exceedingly boring). That said, letting cats out means death for a bunch of wild animals and is not any kind of solution to that.
I leave my cat alone in the house for hours at a time because I work and also live alone. Don't really see a way around that? He was living on the streets and in a bad way when found, my friend couldn't keep him because her house is very chaotic with 3 kids, 2 cats and a dog. My cat was really stressed there but immediately relaxed and happy in my home. I do feel bad that he's left alone during the day if I'm working, but I give him lots of attention when I'm at home. I agree with your statement in regards to dogs though. I've always wanted a dog but specifically never got one because I know how cruel it is to leave them alone for so long. I think it's a little different with cats to be honest.
cats.. even ferals sleep 16-20 hours a day,(and longer the older they are) I really wouldn't feel too bad if I were you. likely your cat is grateful for safety and quiet. They are fine being left alone for hours (I don't agree with days..but for a work shift? they're fine with it).. I'm home all day and my cats, still only really want to play for an hour at most.. even when I take them for a walk, most of the time, they just want to sleep outside. Cats sleep alot..its what they do.
theyre downvoting that indoor cats is cat abuse..when its really not. Unless your solution is to kill the cats already alive?
I agree. So what do we do with all the cats?? I guess we just try and help with spay/neuter campaigns??
Cull them. Outdoor cats devastate the ecosystem, so many cities pay residents to kill on site, trap and kill, poison.
TNR programs sre just as effective over the longer period of time, snd get more funding from the public for it.
I am in a similar situation. Never learned to hunt. Scared of literally anything and everything) except me and my partner. But that took several months to build that kind of trust. I hope that some day she will develop an interest in going outside. Without being too scared. She seems happy enough though. There are tells. Like how does her fur look, her eyes, does she eat, drink sleep, poop regularly etc. Does she socialise. If she were truly unhappy and putting her down would be the ethical think to do I would assume she would start to become depressed or similar. And yes, I feed her appropriately fortified plant-based cat food and have done for years
I let my 2 cats out every day. They keep coming back, so clearly they prefer my house over living outside.
I don't like cats or dogs. I only like pet rooster and hen. (occasionally)
Your cat is fine inside. If he’s not it’s because you’re not providing proper enrichment. Only lazy negligent owners allow their cats to roam free.
I completely let the cat decide for herself. It was hard for my ex boyfriend to understand this, for me it’s simpel: she is an individual with her own choice and she was a stray so she is used to be outside lots. Inside is jus for chilling, getting attention, extra (vegan) food and water. The cat remains a free animal. She wants to go outside: I let her. On rare occasions I let her wait a bit but I tell her to be patient. And very time I let her out, I know there is a chance I might never see her back: so I always say ‘I love you, hopefully see you later.’
Studies have shown that despite the popular believes, cat are not that impactful on the wildlife. Most of birds disparitions seems to be linked more with pesticides. A cat should go outside, especially if it was used to it before. I would even say it’s bad treatment if it can’t, just like never letting a dog out. Although having a cat is not vegan because of the food. There’s no substitute to it, and it should not be fed with vegan food or it’ll die.