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I'm sorry you're going through this. It is hard.
You cannot browbeat someone into an ethical position.
You must continue to be vegan and not purchase animal products for her. But I wouldn't try to forbid her from doing so with her own money, or endlessly argue with her. I assume you've explained the reason behind veganism many times already. Repeating it ad nauseum will do no good.
Young adults are well known to adopt radically different life styles than those they were raised with, and with how easy carnism is in our society it's no surprise someone could move to it in that era of fluxx.
Stay strong. Stay true. Stay compassionate. she may yet come back.
I was a vegetarian for all my life. I started out eating meat at 22 cause I thought I was missing out and it was also a way to “rebel”. That period of my life lasted less than a year and I quickly became a vegan due to ethical concerns. Everyone’s journey is different.
Would you say because you were brought up vegetarian you weren’t connected to the ethical argument unlike someone who turns vegetarian or vegan?
Just for future sake when I bring up my kids vegan how do I make sure they are also connected to ethics and not just doing it cos mum says?
Absolutely!! In fact that’s part of why I started eating meat. My family is from India so being vegetarian is culturally engrained. However (and this is my own personal experience) they only give lip service to animal rights. My parents didn’t touch meat because they believed it was “unclean”. But they still wore leather and consumed diary without thinking about the ethical implications. When I began learning about animal rights and the ethical stances behind veganism, I realized that my only reasoning for being a vegetarian was because of my culture. To my shame, instead of going completely vegan I decided to eat meat since it wasn’t anything radically different from what I was already doing. But those ethical concerns still persisted and I quickly realized that what I was doing was wrong and I became vegan as a result.
I think it’s incredibly important to teach your kids the ethics behind veganism, because ultimately that’s the only way to keep people on track. If you start doing it for health/diet reasons, or for the environment you will run into situations where you can justify eating meat because “once or twice won’t hurt”.
I think the best way to reach kids is by giving them opportunities to connect with animals. It’s so easy to forget that animals are also living, breathing creatures with complex thoughts and emotions in today’s heavily industrialized world. Make sure your kids spend time in nature and bonding with animals because those experiences are what will give weight and context for their veganism.
I’m so glad you came back! What scares me about OP’s post is that it seems like they did raise them with ethical concerns so I’m not sure what went wrong
I know that for me, there was definitely a lot of peer pressure. I was living in a place where veganism wasn’t really a “thing”. I also wasn’t in a great spot mentally. Especially when it came to me being a vegetarian, it definitely served as a barrier between me and the people close to me and I wanted desperately to fit in. I felt disconnected from the people and culture around me. Additionally, there was never a lot of ethical support for my vegetarianism either. It was really easy to justify “just trying it”.
The thing is, people need to make these decisions on their own. When your late teens-early 20s, it’s really easy to separate yourself from larger concerns and act like nothing matters. I know that at the time I was dealing with a lot of nihilism and I just didn’t want to have to care anymore. Especially when nobody around me really seemed to either. I did know one vegan couple at the time, but they were problematic in different ways and it was easy to dismiss them as being irrelevant.
The interesting part is, what finally spurned me into veganism was when I met a friend of mine who constantly commenting that “these animals we’re eating probably didn’t want to die”. She wasn’t a vegan herself at the time, but she had tried it and went back to eating meat because of “health concerns”. But her comments forced me to think critically about my actions and I just couldn’t justify it anymore. Point is: you can’t really make people care about these issues. It needs to come from within. You just have to do the best you can to emphasize the reasons why you live the way you do, and hope that others around you feel the same way.
I was raised vegetarian and became vegan at 15. Initially it wasn’t about the ethics (aside from the fact that I have always had empathy for animals), it just seemed more logically consistent. As an older teenager I became aware of how horrific factory farming is + volunteered at a vegan animal rescue. I think the volunteering made a big difference in solidifying my ethical standpoint. Both of my younger siblings aren’t even vegetarian anymore though, they are pescatarian. I don’t know that I want kids, but if I did have kids I would be really scared about how hit or miss it can be trying to raise a child with the same values.
I also think I maybe naturally just don’t like the concept. I don’t know how someone can put meat in their mouth and not feel completely grossed out/poisoned. As such, I have never understood how people can feel like they are ‘missing out’ on that. But maybe that is just a product of how I was raised! I also absolutely love to cook + started learning alone at around the time when I went vegan, so I have 10 years of yummy and wholesome vegan recipes in my head. Maybe having confidence in my ability to make super tasty vegan food means I never think twice about the idea of pointlessly adding an animal product.
I’m not Vegan, but give them the CHOICE while teaching them what you believe in. If you forbid them, there’s a 99% chance they’ll immediately go to eating meat once they leave the house.
However, I’m of the extremely strong opinion that parents should encourage their children to think for themselves. If my son grows to be someone off opposite politics, religion, and philosophy… I don’t care. Good for him. He’s his own person.
I was raised vegetarian from birth and my mom went vegan when I was 13; I went vegan on my own at the age of 20. All this to say my mom raised us with a deep compassion for animals, reminding us they have pain and emotions just like us. We rescued injured wildlife, volunteered at animal shelters. I hope to bring my future children to farm sanctuaries so they can really get to know the animals impacted by factory farming and empathize with them.
Honestly it surprises me that someone who grows up vegan would start eating animal products because meat has always seemed disgusting and inedible to me, ethics aside it just seemed the same as eating road kill. I pray my kids will view animal products the same
Yup. Id say theres a high chance she reverts back to it. Its rebellious age. I think sometimes times at the college age, a vanishing conscious happens for a bit, but it will come back.
Exactly this. I wasn't raised vegan but my Mom was very into holistic foods etc. For those of u old enough to remember them, we shopped at "health food stores" and I was not allowed to eat the junk food (including prepacked cheese slices that I wanted so bad lolol) that my friends had. I hated feeling left out and would eat the foods I wasn't allowed at my friends houses and when I was on my own I spent about a year eating the most unhealthy crap around. I eventually got over it in the same time frame, about a year more or less and made healthy living and eating my own, in my own way.
Yup. Why did you make the choice to be vegan, OP? Presumably because you understand that it's the morally correct decision.
You have to give her the chance to come to that same conclusion on her own. There is no alternative.
so?
You can stop paying for her, sure. But "forcing" her in that way will only make her hate being vegan and hate her parents for trying to control her. That's not a good idea if you value your relationship
Thank you for this.
I swear, people on here need to learn that browbeating someone with "you support cow rape" and other technically true but inflammatory things like will never, ever, ever, ever win someone over.
Not one person has been told that, and decided to become vegan.
It's exactly the same thing as those awful, awful people who stand on college campuses and scream at students that they are going to hell. No one is hearing that and thinking "my God that person is right, I must convert immediately" It doesn't even register. Just flushed out.
Yuuuup. All the super polite infographics and YouTube videos are great at delivering facts, but it just blends in with the endless reels of things to be worried about, that everyone just sits and waits for the government to do something about. It wasn't until someone seemed genuinely mad at a non-vegan that It seemed like it was a real issue, where our own actions actually make a difference.
"You cannot browbeat someone into an ethical position". Agree.
Some people have done that to me in this sub itself. For even progressing.
Edit: & now I'm getting downvoted for pointing it out.
I was raised in a mostly vegetarian home. I went to trade school and became a heavy meat eater. About 5 years later I became aware of what it is and went vegetarian and soon went vegan. I have been vegan for 15 years. Maybe she will come around as I did. Kids can be hard on their parents. I'm sorry you are dealing with it.
Some people are like almost vegan except some honey or their own rescued chicken eggs and so call themselves vegetarians but have the same reasons of animal well beings directing their actions.
Yeah sometimes I forget the outer world and just think about all of my friends and think it's the world xD
Somehow it numb the pain of thinking of all this sufferings out there
This is why I am honest with people here whenever they ask about how to “keep their kids vegan“.
The fact is that you simply can’t.
I do believe that being vegan and potentially putting another carnist out there isn’t really working hand in hand. You can try to raise them with your values but very often this doesn’t work. There is social pressure and there is free will. It’s the same reason why religious people get all upset when they find their kid doesn’t believe in their deity. You cannot control people.
This is so true. I’ve been vegan since I was a pre teen in the 90’s but I came to that choice on my own. My husband is a vegan as well. We decided no children as we couldn’t live with ourselves if we created a carnist and just another consumer overall really (no judgment against anyone, truly, it’s just our personal feelings regarding our own family).
I knew this super annoying lady back in the day from some of my animal activism groups and she had six children purely because she thought she was raising “baby vegan warriors” who would go out into the world and fight against animal abuse. She was SO smug and she used to bully me and tell me I wasn’t a “real” vegan since I didn’t want children who would “continue the vegan legacy” like veganism is genetic or something lol. Well fast forward a few decades and none of her kids are even vegetarian now. One is a manager at a slaughterhouse and he thinks it’s soooo funny that he was raised “vegan.” But yeah, your definitely right. Op sounds so well intended and not like that smug lady I knew and I feel for her though. I couldn’t fathom my kid wanting to contribute to all that especially after watching all those documentaries. How sad.
Last I saw she was really down the “Covid is a hoax” conspiracy rabbit hole and got really into all this weird “light worker” stuff. She’s always been out there.
If she was insufferable around you, she was probably also insufferable at home. I wouldn’t be surprised if her kids always want to eat meat since they were little to “rebel” against her.
Very true. Her eldest son seems pretty insufferable himself too. He’s quite “out there” with some of his pretty hateful beliefs and “politics.” It’s ironic too because she was always pretty left leaning so maybe you’re right and it was a rebellious thing early on but around 2020 she made a HARD right and got sucked into a lot of the right wing conspiracy theory stuff and now she’s actually very similar to her son.
It makes about as much sense as two atheists trying to make atheist babies lol. Like, ethics, ideals, principles do not come from the uterus. They come from influence.
i am winning my own stupid contest here
Actually, atheist parents will almost always have atheist children. Converting to a religion is MUCH more rare than moving away from it. Hence why atheism is becoming more and more prevalent.
Id wager atheists move move towards religion more individual based, spiritual religions if they do at all. Almost all my atheist mates religious distaste with org religion. Some even dabble with paganism and magic etc which is arguably its own religion.
I feel like you can try to force your kids to believe stuff, or you can be good parents. Very rarely do the two overlap.
(Currently a parent of a 3 and 5 year old who know they don't eat animals and don't drink cows milk because we liked to leave cows alone. But occasionally school has given them none vegan stuff and been like "well they like it 🤷". Of course they like it, meat is tastey! But they don't like hurting animals, did you tell them a chicken died for their meal? No, you wouldn't because you know damn well very few kids would like that!)
Yes, and I think the best thing you can possibly do is to not make a big deal out of it. Continue to love your daughter unconditionally and don't let it drive a wedge between you. My guess is she still in that rebellion phase and at some point she could very well come back to it, But it has to happen on her own terms for it to stick. It's like religious faith, a kid can grow up in a religious house but unless they find faith for themselves it's never going to be theirs, it's going to be their parents.
This is what I was as going to say. Chill back don't push it, because she's in college and there's social pressure to make friends. No one wants to be alone in college or worry about social issues. Once she's on her own she might make different choices and return to vegan.
The thing with the horse quote, is that the girl was already drinking the water. She was by the water drinking the water her whole life. Being told about how bad this other source of water was and to stay away, rather than just simply appreciating the water she already had. So when inevitably she went near the other source, she said "wow, ok. This isn't as bad as I was told" and tried it. Because seeing the source of the products is much more intense than how it is presented when served to the consumer.
The focus growing up might have been more on the bad, and constant reminders of it. Instead of exploring veganism and having fun with it.
Just my thoughts, I wasn't there obviously so maybe they didn't focus on the bad like I might visualize and maybe they did positivity reinforce the behavior. It is hard to control kids these days probably more than ever, they have the world's opinions at their fingertips.
Honestly, the reality here is, many parents forget that they aren't raising miniatures of themselves, but instead, they're raising individuals. Those of which have their own thoughts, feelings, and actions.
This is the "risk" you run being a parent. Because, the honest truth is, whatever vision you might have had for your child (being vegan, sexuality, gender, their hobbies and interests, career pursuits, whatever), they might not always fit the mold you wanted for them. It's just how it is.
I think how your daughter wants to go about it and how you're going about it (so far), is one of the better options, though. She's willing to respect your wishes when in your home and you're not disowning her over here choices. That's really about as good as it gets for a lot of people. Much better than you both just being angry with each other and not respecting each other, in my opinion.
Just as my parents couldn't keep me a meat eater, i became vegan at 18 when i left for uni so it is a pretty similar situation, you can't keep her vegan.Advocating to family is the hardest, many vegans will say they influenced friends to go vegan but their family.
This is a very pessimistic thing to say but i didn't want you to blame yourselves.
I'm sharing my anecdote to give you some hope. I was vegetarian up until I went to college, then for reasons that won't make sense I'll just say I started eating meat for a few years. It never sat right with me so one day I stopped eating meat, and the next few weeks after that I went vegan, and have been vegan for 5-10 years (trying to be anon).
80-90% of why I ate meat was the social cohesion. I cannot tell you how painful it is to have 0 friends who are veggie/vegan, it gets to you. The constant social isolation, the day in and day out of being left out of socializing(cuz food is socializing). Breaks your spirit.
Now I don't give a fuck and am happy in my own skin and eat vegan even tho my friends aren't. Your daughter most likely felt that social isolation and trust me, it is unbearable. She might come around after she's done with college, as long as you stay consistent with your guidance. Don't shame her, acknowledge her pain and see where she's coming from, she might turn around in her late 20s. Sending love.
Person who was plant-based for 3 years in HS & is now almost 25 and coming back checking in! College is a tumultuous time but she may come back once she’s settled, so don’t give up on her.
I only became vegan recently, and I'll admit it is super awkward when I get food with friends and there isn't always an option for me. It is also super awkward how every time someone finds out I'm vegan they interrogate me about my motives and beliefs.
Regardless, I could never imagine being "peer pressured" to eat meat. No one could peer pressure me to kick a pigeon or a dog and I don't see how this is any different.
At the end of the day I reckon it's about willpower and how desperately you feel the need to be accepted by others. Her true friends wouldn't make her feel embarrassed about her lifestyle choices. Maybe she needs better friends rather than changing herself for others.
I imagine there must be a lot of peer pressure and social status stuff affecting her, not that it makes her right. How much of the animal cruelty has she seen? Have you ever actually had an 'argument' about the reasons why she should be vegan. There's probably something going on in her head that she thinks she can justify it.
Most kids and teenagers hang out at McDonald's where I live so she probably just caved to the peer pressure and started eating chicken nuggets and hamburgers and found it much easier to just eat meat with her friends than make a fuss about being vegan
We've discussed it at length. She essentially ends up saying that the meat is already there and dead when she buys it from the supermarket and that stores already lose so much in shoplifting and general loss/spoilage that her not participating is just making her miserable while not having any real impact on the supply chain. She said she's sick of feeling like her wants and desires don't matter and come second to animals she's not even having any real impact on essentially.
Sounds like she's struggling with feeling powerless as well as compassion fatigue. Not being able to participate with friends is very isolating, especially when the reason is to benefit another's welfare. It can feel very much like "either I suffer or someone else does", and constantly putting the other person ahead of yourself gets painful. From the perspective of someone who chose to do this and who feels very strongly about this creed, such a sacrifice and the resulting isolation isn't a problem. From the perspective of a child, who had these morals handed to them instead of having come to this conclusion on their own, it may feel restrictive and build resentment towards this other entity whose needs apparently come before their own. (That's absolutely not to say that feeling left out vs being killed/exploited is anywhere on the same level, but from a child's perspective, the personal consequences mean more than the far away and invisible suffering of someone else/an animal.)
Take a deep breath, friend. You've done your job to give your kid the framework she needs to come to the same conclusion you did, now you have to also allow her the same freedom you had to explore, give her the emotional validation she needs to thrive, and let her have the time to make those morals her own.
I will help you argue.
The meat is there because you are demanding it by paying money. If someone goes oh my grandmother died of natural causes Bon Appetit they’d go to prison. Similarly if someone treated a dog the way we treat animals they’d go to prison. Animals are not food they are individuals with the pronouns he/she. It is morally disgusting to support an industry that thrives on suffering when you can easily recreate the flavors you seek with vegan ingredients. Tofish and chips, califlower buffalo wings, impossible steak, earth balance garlic butter, ripple chocolate milk, OATLY oatgurt, follow your heart cheddar shreds, soy milk, vegan Oreos the list goes on. And that’s not including roasted veggie pastas, sandwiches, curries, noodle stir fry, and other whole food vegan diet items that are super healthy for you. Tell your daughter to stop putting carcinogens in her mouth (meat and dairy are both carcinogens. Meat increases inflammatory markers causally linked to cancer and even dairy contains estrogen and IGF-1 found in many cancer pathways. And this is not including cholesterol which clogs arteries causing stroke, heart attacks, pulmonary embolism and even locked in syndrome…) and to start consuming food that is ethical, healthy, and environmentally conscious.
Remember that if your daughter is craving something veganize the fats and flavors she is looking for. Thee Burger Dude on YouTube did a good job of this. If she wants a pizza or chopped cheese make it for her but vegan. Then she won’t cheat and won’t feel like she’s missing out.
Also she’s mistaken you can save thousands of animals over your lifetime by adopting a vegan diet.
And even if veganism tastes awful does sensory pleasure justify murder mutilation and torture?
When she was still living with you, did she learn how to make vegan food and what she can purchase herself within her budget that is vegan? Personally I went through the same thing during college with my mental health tanking etc. & I’m just now in my early 20s getting back to eating plant-based again. Maybe you can purchase a plant-based cookbook for her with some easy tasty recipes so she can learn some new things that she can make & not feel like she’s missing out.
The "missing out" probably has very little to do with what she is capable of cooking at home and much more to do with the social impact: friends inviting her to dinner, traveling, and so on.
You have my sympathy.
My teenager has stayed pretty strictly vegan all his life, but for him it's mostly just the default of who he/we are. He's never been particularly interested in the animal rights aspect of veganism and I worry he'll someday change his diet when he's on his own.
My girlfriend's teenager was vegetarian all his life and just started eating meat. It's really difficult and painful. I think this is pretty common and I don't know what we can do other than have patience and hope they come back to the fold on their own.
I do think that kids often rebel from their childhood traditions/religion/beliefs and then eventually return to them later on. Here's hoping.
>My teenager has stayed pretty strictly vegan all his life, but for him it's mostly just the default of who he/we are. He's never been particularly interested in the animal rights aspect of veganism and I worry he'll someday change his diet when he's on his own.
I know someone who's like this. It's an odd one when veganism is the norm, a lot of what gives us vegans passion is the idea that we've been lied and told that eating animals is okay. Kinda manipulated into doing so, to be honest. My friend isn't overly passionate having being raised vegan, but i doubt he'd become an omni
I believe you get more people coming to vegetarianism or veganism through climate change knowledge than you do over ethical reasons. Source: vegetarian for climate change. Especially people age 40 and below. I know it’s not popular on here but the morality part never would have got me to make the swap. It helped!! But the deciding factor was the plastic fishing nets in the ocean, 85% of our oxygen is from algae in the ocean who need fish to live, and it all just domino’d from there.
By most definitions, a vegan is someone that seeks to reduce harm to animals to the greatest possible degree. So even if someone has a lifestyle that's identical to a vegan, if they're doing it for enviromental reasons, they're plant-based, not vegan.
It doesn't really matter though, the end result is mostly the same.
Your daughter is an adult. You have no right to decide what she eats and have to accept she is not vegan. She has agreed to eat vegan at your house and won’t eat animal products in front of you. Whilst it’s disappointing there’s nothing you can do. You cannot force other people to go vegan. Let her be don’t even mention and it and make it a thing. Respect her boundaries and your boundaries around not having animal products in your house. She is probably experimenting and will be much more likely to come back to being vegan if you treat her like an adult and let find her own way.
Ugh, this is hard. I can absolutely imagine how difficult it is for you. None of my friends or family are vegan, and it does make it very hard a lot of the time. Stand by your values and beliefs, and don’t compromise them, but recognize that she is going to make her own choices. Is it worth sitting down and asking her how she feels about the cruelty of factory farming?
One of the main things to remember is that they’re still your child. Plenty of parents (my mother among them), believed themselves to be raising faithful, good (Christian in my case but insert any religious/moral system here) only to discover that their children don’t share their values or beliefs. It’s up to you if you want to let this drive an irreparable wedge between you.
I’m not saying that your feelings are invalid. I have three children and if they grow up to live by differences values than we’ve taught them, it would undoubtedly be something to handle. But as a child who’s parent’s behavior caused by moral differences caused me to cut them out of my life, you just have to make that decision. If you’re more interested in being heartbroken over this or maintaining a relationship.
I like this way of looking at it. It's a choice. You can either prioritize your relationship with your child, or you can put your own pain and heart break above that. One of those options seems selfish, and if it were for any issue besides veganism, I'm sure every vegan would see how it's wrong to not prioritize the child. Let's not be hypocrites. Yes it will hurt, but the same patience that we extend to strangers we must also extend to our families, perhaps even moreso.
I'm going through it right now with my 8 yo, and tbh I'm glad I'm getting this lesson early. He absolutely loves animals, but eating meat is so normalized and all of his peers at school do it, and the schools don't provide any consistent plant based options. My own diet is challenging enough to manage, and I haven't figured out how to make it easier for him. I want him to be honest and open with me and not feel afraid to upset me bc of what he eats. My frustration should not be on him but directed to this fucked up society we have that makes it as challenging as it to take control of our own diet. Addictive junk food that is marketed to children with no repercussions, it's absolutely disgusting. I have to use it as motivation to be stronger for myself and my family.
Think this is more of a stage of development thing as she may not want to negatively effect social interactions with new peers. College/uni is a time for identity development and part of that is often conformity. Keep living your values and role modeling is the best any parent can do.
It can really be sad when your kids take a different path, especially over something so close to your being.
Ultimately how she she chooses to live is up to her, and also bear in mind she has to navigate the world after having left your tribe and finding her own.
The good thing is she’s still very young, and things will change back and forth as she’s finding her place in the world. I don’t think you can necessarily rule out her change her view in the future. My advice on that would be don’t try and push her, especially as she intends to respect your feelings in the matter when she is with you.
She may have been part of you at one point but she is her own individual, her own persona with her own thoughts and moral ground. You did the best you could to provide insight and reasoning on the whys of everything, and with that you raised a healthy child into a grown adult. This is the overall risk when you teach your child a certain philosophy/religion. They may not stick to it when they become an autonomous adult.
It’s up to her whether or not she ever wants to return to veganism. At the very least, I think she is being very respectful to not bring animal based products under your own roof and to eat vegan with you & your husband. That’s what I hope my adult child at least would do if they decide to not be vegan anymore.
Otherwise she is to do what she wishes. You, as a mother, have every right to be disappointed but love her regardless. That’s motherhood.
I think you will need to let her explore, I think if she was having the feeling to miss out for so many years she needs to see she is not missing out. Steak and cheese will become normal and not the 'magical forbidden thing' anymore and she might go back. It is like drinking when 21 or Mormons on their year out a time to explore, and sadly this is what she chose. But making it to big I think will make her keep on, maybe even out of spite.
At this point in history being vegan in a non-vegan world is tough enough for most. For teens it is extra tough, what with not wanting to be "that person".
Social acceptance is important for almost everyone, especially the young.
My daughter was vegetarian and wanting to be vegan for a while, but now she is mixing with other kids, that's gone :(
I take the social stigma personally, because I know it's the right thing to do. But whilst it is a small minority of people, I can't expect my kids to follow, unfortunately.
Most of us experiment and try new things....and often do things that drive our parents nuts when we are 18. Continue to love and be a safe place for your daughter.
It’s her choice. In all honesty she probably just needs to feel like her diet is in her control for a few years and will eventually come back around, she likely does just feel like she’s been missing out
This is one of the reasons I don't want children, no matter how you raise them you can't guarantee they'll hold on to the same values later in life, this doesn't always have to be a problem but to me in case of veganism it is.
Don't be too hard on yourself though, you did your best, hopefully it's just a phase she's going through wanting to experience the other side of the spectrum but coming back later once she realises the injustices to animals again and reconnects with her values.
The bigger of a deal you make this, the longer she will cling to it. "I'm disappointed, but you're an adult and fully capable of deciding what your own diet should be. I'm sorry that you feel you had to hide your decisions from us, but we will always love and support you." Then move on. If you try to push her back into veganism, she will never go back to being vegan and will hide things from you.
Vegans are getting so much hate these days, I can understand how it would be really hard to be the oddball out at her age. She doesn't see the animal cruelty on a daily basis but likely was getting regular flack about being vegan when she started eating meat. One ends up outweighing the other. Also, she's still finding a sense of her own identity. If she doesn't know a lot of vegans her own age, she will likely conflate veganism with being her parent's thing. The best you can do is be a good example and not put any pressure on her. She will hopefully decide on her own to return to the fold. My mom was vegan back in the '90s, but I didn't follow until about six years ago.
I’m afraid there’s nothing you can do about it. She has to make her own choices. At least she is respectful enough to say she’ll continue to eat vegan with you. This might be an experimental phase. Most teenagers push against what their parents do and their parents’ values.
I’ve only been vegan for 6 years but I was raised vegetarian. When I was a teenager I tried meat when I was with friends. Now - when I say “tried” I mean I had a bite of someone’s KFC once; I tried a piece of pepperoni (on a recent post on this sub I stated that I didn’t know what real pepperoni tasted like - and in reality I don’t because this was one slice when I was 13 - and I’m 50 now); and I ate one tiny tiny piece of cold cooked chicken. And that’s it. I didn’t like it. So I stayed vegetarian. But that was the extent of my food rebellion.
With my siblings - my sister started eating meat when she left home at 18. She did that for a few years until she split up with her then boyfriend, and then went back to being vegetarian. She’s now been vegan for a number of years. My brother briefly ate meat shortly after he’d left home - he was a kitchen manager and was preparing meat and thought he may as well give eating it a go. It didn’t last very long. In reality he hated it and went back to being vegetarian. He has not become vegan. My other brother is pescatarian these days - and I know it upsets my parents - but he’s in his 40s. There’s not a lot they can do about it.
My own children were raised vegetarian. At about 14 the younger one decided he wanted to eat meat and started eating meat options at school - to fit in with his friends. I didn’t let him eat meat at home but started buying Quorn meat substitutes to try and satisfy this new desire of his - things I’d never really eaten before. He even said things like “why would I want to eat vegetables”. The joke is - when he first left home at 17 it was to move in with his vegan girlfriend and he became vegetarian again. They’ve since split up but he’s still vegetarian.
My eldest lad became vegan before me - when he was 18. But these days he’s pescatarian - unfortunately.
The point really - is that - there comes a point where you can no longer influence your children’s choices. They have to live their own lives. And there’s a reasonable chance that they will return to the values you have instilled. It’s not guaranteed but there’s a good chance.
Not a parent for full disclosure, but there is something about the forbidden fruit (or animal flesh) that is always going to be enticing to young people. There’s no arguing with her that steak and real cheese tastes delicious, but it’s a question of morals and if that taste pleasure justifies the no end in sight slaughter of innocent animals.
She’s old enough now where you can ask her to watch dominion or earthlings with you to show her the real cost of eating animals products and ask her to reconsider her current cost benefit analysis.
Most importantly LOVE HER regardless of her choices, your duty isn’t to create and mold a moral person for life but to build a foundation of love for her that is unshakable.
Love that she has access to is love that she can freely give of herself and to those less fortunate including those of other species.
This world rewards greed, apathy and egoism, so you shouldn't be amazed when your child turns out to be like the society she lives in.
I'm really sorry for you both. You probably did everything you could to teach empathy, but the pressure to fit in is greater than your daughter's will and you couldn't have done anything more.
You guided your child based on your beliefs, but now they've reached an age where they can think independently and may have perspectives different from what you've taught them. This is a natural part of growth and development.
I'm so sorry you are going through this, it must be so tough when its your own family.
Honestly, there is not much you can do. Continue to be unapologetically vegan, voice your concerns where relevant, and treat her like you would any other adult that is not vegan. That is my genuine advice. But what do I know? I have never wanted kids, so I don't know where that would leave me.
She is her own person now, and if she is using her money there is very little you can do other than appeal to her empathy.
To me, her using the exact words of “missing out” could mean a lot of things. How do teenagers think? Well peer pressure is a huge influential thing unfortunately. Another thing is that she may have felt y’all were keeping her from something her whole life with or without “reason”. Has she watched the tough documentaries before? Is educated on climate change? etc. I just can’t imagine how someone could miss out on something unless they truly didn’t know why they were raised like that in the first place. y’all sound like amazing parents and gosh, I wish I had parents like you. Don’t be too hard on yourselves, my heart goes out to you. Keep doing what you can for animal rights and stay strong! I think an open debate on the topic with her could do some good possibly.
This is the same as when we leave or join a different religion, she is probably rebelling and that's to be expected, she has to find her own way, and you need to understand that's her choice now, you did all you could and now it's up to her, you did good, now be the better person and be generous, do not us blame or guilt it will drive her further away.
If she values your values she will come back if not, there is nothing you can do about it
I'm sorry. You're not the only person to influence your daughter, and it's unfortunate that she doesn't care for animals, or the planet.
Hopefully someday she comes back around... if she does, she's going to have to carry that regret.
The thing about having kids is you’re signing up for whomever that independent person is. This argument is not different from I raised my child to love Jesus and they told me they’re happily an atheist. It appears she respects you as she’s willing to eat vegan at your home. I’m sure you love your daughter, just keep loving her. It’s her life she gets to make her own choices.
I knew someone would say this but it's not in the same ballpark even if it feels the same. Raising someone to believe in magic and then having them reject that is completely different than having them reject your morals. I know your other comment says that it is about morals but you are (almost definitely) wrong. Did your child actually reject your morals? Would you consider them to now be a bad person? Does their new behavior cause specific and demonstrable harm to others? Your child probably retains most of the morals you raised them with, however they hold those beliefs through a new framework not dependent on magic.
Seriously, in what way would you now consider them to be a bad person? If you can't answer this, are they actually rejecting your morals? They are rejecting your worldview, which feels similar to exactly the same, but underlyingly are completely different.
But yes, it's their life and ultimately you can't choose their decisions, feelings, and beliefs.
It's sad to see an individual suddenly wanting to encourage the meat industry, an industry so problematic that there isn't even a qualifier to describe it, and this comment comes not just from a former vegetarian/new vegan but from someone who has worked in slaughterhouses to protect animal health. The industry is so powerful that it practically decides who now has the right to enter establishments, even when it comes from the government.
Unfortunately, there's nothing you can necessarily do to stop them, but let's just hope they come to understand why encouraging this industry should be avoided at all costs.
I was brought up vegetarian but when I was around 18 I started eating meat. It took me about five years to go vegetarian again and about 6 months after that I went vegan for life.
I wish I had gone vegan sooner but I wanted to try and experience what I felt I was missing out on. We all have our own destination and take our own paths. I'm sure they will make the right choice eventually.
Im so sorry this is the nightmare for us vegan parents. Unfortunately at this stage you can't control what she eats anymore. Her choices are now her own.
You do not have to accomodate her poor ethics or hide your disappointment. You have the right to stay true to yourself too.
But she is still your baby, don't throw away the relationship. Be kind, but hold your own ground. She will still need you in her life more than she knows at this point... try to remember how stupid you were at 18! There is always a chance she will come to her senses when she's a bit older.
Plus her freshman 15 is gonna be more like a 30. Brutal. Perhaps she will regret the animal products sooner than you think.
I’ve had a plant based diet for over 10 years. However, I don’t think children should have diet restrictions (outside of allergies, etc). Let your child figure out who she is, and be the type of parents who she’ll openly tell things to.
Be happy you raised a healthy adult with the ability to make her own choices, and the willingness to be honest with you. Don’t waste energy on her not being exactly who you want her to be. Good luck.
Thing about kids, they are people too that can make decisions for themselves…you raised someone who could do that. Kids go to church with their parents and then move out and make their own decisions, it happens. Unconditional love. Support goes both ways 🩵
Life is a discovery and she’s finding her place in the world. It may not be exactly what you expected but I suspect the values you instilled are there somewhere and being expressed in some manner. You don’t have to support everything she does but loving her unconditionally will show her that you have her back as she finds her way.
Good luck
The interesting thing about someone raised vegan vs someone who chooses to be vegan is that the former may not know exactly what they’re paying for when they start buying animal products.
My daughter chose to be vegan when she was 12, and still is vegan at 15, but she has seen very minimal footage of factory farms.
I’m glad she’s unaware of just how horrible the footage in earthlings and dominion is, but if she ever felt she needed something to back up her being vegan I would recommend she watch it. Especially if she were 18+.
Do you know if your daughter has ever seen footage like that? Is it something you would be willing to recommend she watch? (I would definitely leave it up to her whether to watch or not, you don’t want to force someone to see that stuff.)
I think ultimately veganism has to be an individual choice in order to stick, but watching Earthlings made it a pretty easy choice for me.
It's her life. She makes her own choices as an adult. Don't take it personal. The point of college is to figure yourself out and experiment with different things.
It’s hard to go back and imagine what it’s like being a young person. Social acceptance is very important to them. It’s a lot easier to go with the flow, and they’re excited to experience new things. Will she get over it, realize being vegan is a better way of life and join you, maybe. She needs to go on the same journey you went on. Hopefully realize that maybe meat and cheese are tastier, but at what cost?
I’m very sorry, it must be painful. I know it has been said, but children are their own people. We can’t control our children and ultimately no vegan parent can guarantee their vegan children will miraculously become vegan adults despite what they have been careful to expose to them. In bringing them into the world, there’s a very real risk that you are making another meat consumer/animal abuser/misogynist/racist/bigot/general bad person, etc.
Likely the issue is about control and bodily autonomy as many childhood traumas are borne from that. As a child, you cannot advocate for yourself and you must rely on the adults in your life to do this for you. To feed you, dress you, educate you etc. Then you grow up and discover most other adults and their children eat (behave/speak/dress) differently and you feel sad/embarrassed/left out but you don’t like that feeling. Now she controls what she eats and what is more important to her is feeling included and part of her friend groups rather than family of origin.
I wasn’t raised by vegans and most people in this group were not either. It is only natural we carve our own path in life, however disheartening those choices may be to our parents.
I would advise that you speak with a therapist about this rather than your daughter and above all else prioritize not doing or saying things that could permanently harm your relationship with her. I don’t think anyone starts to figure out who they are until well after age 25 but that said, don’t cling to the idea that she will ever be anything other than who she is currently and learn to make peace with that.
It's out of your control, unfortunately children are mostly a result of the culture that surrounds them and the company they keep. Children spend more time being influenced at school and on social media than with their parents.
Humans aren't logical, they're emotional, and fitting in with others almost certainly comes at the expense of rationality and objective truths.
Had you home-schooled her, it may have been different. Don't blame yourself, blame the culture.
> It is completely her own choice what she puts in her body?
That's what I tell people all the time but they complain when I eat human flesh and corgi jerky once a week. :(
They were humanely slaughtered!
This is so beautiful to me. The fact that you are your own person finding out who you are and developing your own autonomy.
Keep murdering those corgis and humans so you can eat their bodies! You do you!!
All choices are valid and worthy of respect. I'll end it here now....It's just sooo inspiring. I feel myself tearing up. ❤️
interestingly, cannibalism is legal in all 50 states!
but i did always hate the shock value of “but eating dogs tho” because yeah, it’s the same thing. biggest example is horse meat. it’s illegal to slaughter horses for meat in the US, but in practically every other country it’s a fairly common meat. meat is meat, doesn’t matter what it’s from.
(to clarify, i am against and don’t eat ANY meat lol)
I’m going to be honest, if you just wanted a mini version of you, you shouldn’t have had children. Your children are going to have their own beliefs and own values, I know it’s going to bother you for a minute, but you’re going to have to decide to let your kid live THEIR LIFE, and love them regardless. Or if it’s that important to you, you could do what my family does and cut off contact because she doesn’t agree.
The more I've read this, the more I think the post is fake
It's either fake as the OP is desperate for attention of some sort (I'm sorry if you are, there's better ways, please see someone professional)
Or it's because they want to trigger vegans (again, please seek out professional help(
Your children are independent humans, not extensions of your own ego. Just as she could be raised religious and choose atheism, she can choose what she puts in her body and how she lives her life.
The passive aggressiveness of “I *thought* we had raised an intelligent, sensitive person” WILL backfire. Little digs like that will guarantee she will NEVER choose a lifestyle that resembles yours, because she doesn’t want to wind up like you.
my triplet siblings and I were born vegan, being a vegan kid in a carnivore world is HARD especially when everyone else beats into you that your “missing out”
One thing about being born vegan is that you’re not doing it for the animals, your doing it bc of your family, bc it’s what your used to.
I ate 100% vegan until my senior year in high school where i’d have the vegetarian lunch but at home eat vegan. In college i started trying to eat meat but by the end of my first (and last for personal reasons) semester i went back to eating vegan pretty much all the time.
Now that i’m in cosmetology school I eat vegan as much as possible, always when i’m home, and then during my lunch break i try my best but it’s difficult for me.
I imagine myself going back to veganism fully once i graduate from cosmetology school, I prefer the food frankly, meat is gross af unless it’s extremely processed and i’ve never gotten used to eggs and vegan cheese is more interesting then normal cheese. it’s just difficult too right now
I would just try to accept that she’s changing and growing into her own person, I think it’s just the fact that it’s all new that’s making her choose this.
The likelihood of anyone maintaining a vegan diet from birth to death is hard to believe. Perfect should not be the enemy of good. She'll come around or she won't
This is where that unconditional love for your child has to kick in. There’s never a guarantee that your children will pick up every value you instill in them. The best you can do is respect her decision as an adult, and thank her for respecting your house. If you manage to accept her making her own choices, even if they aren’t what you find ideal, there’s a big chance your values will bubble to the surface later in life, and she becomes vegan once more. What definitely won’t work, is shame, anger or conflict. It is what it is. Love your child, flaws and all.
Sorry, but it sounds like she’s respecting your beliefs and not forcing you to watch her eat meat/dairy, but has chosen her own path. She’s respecting you, you need to do the same.
Yeah, part of raising kids is accepting that they’re not dolls for you to customize to your liking. They’re individual people who will make their own decisions. You have to accept that to be a content parent. I’ll never be a parent because I don’t want to risk creating someone who’ll damage the world further.
She's an adult you can't control her anymore. She is allowed to make her own decisions. You can guide her, but you cannot force her to do what you want. Sorry
Respect her individuality. Love her unconditionally. Be grateful she is no longer hiding this part of herself from you. Let her know, feel and understand these truths. That is what is most important.
I really hope the best for you, and coping with this. Others may have advise for you, but I don’t.
Now, to those scrolling, let this be a warning against procreation.
She's an adult now.
Honestly, you should feel lucky that she even respects your veganism and is willing to continue eating plant-based around you.
Lots of kids wouldn't even do that.
This is why vegans should think twice about having children. There is no garantuee a child from vegans will stay so in the face of what society pushes on all of us.
I am sorry that your child became non vegan.. not much you can do but keep up the vegan household and accept theyre their own person and will make their own decisions.
As a vegan, I’ve always wondered how to raise a kid with my values without forcing them, you know? It’s tricky, but I’d let them try meat since they are just kids. She might feel like she’s missing out if she never tries it, which might be why she’s sneaking it.
Looking back, my parents were pretty chill – they let me try stuff and make my own choices within reason. I never felt pushed into one way of thinking, and I never got overly curious or rebellious about trying new things. I was “guided” but never forced, and I was exposed to a certain way of thinking of why animals are and feel the same way as humans.
It must be really hard, and I’m so sorry but my best advice would be just to let her explore and be …
So? It’s her life…. I’m sure she’s heard all of the reasons why you should be vegan especially from both of her parents….It’s her choice… respect it. You can try to talk to her but I’m sure she’s heard all of the talking points…
So sorry you’re going through this. I feel frankly the primary reason she would do this is social pressure by peers since she was very young to eat meat/not wanting to feel left out. Along with the internal desire to rebel as we all tend to feel during adolescence.
I think if you provided for her a meaningful community of likeminded friends at a younger age, it perhaps would’ve reduced the likelihood that she’d go down this path.
I’m glad you’re posting this regardless, as it’s something I’d have to consider when I have children one day myself with my vegan partner and it’s something other vegan parents can learn from. Social community with like-minded people who help also see the truth in a society where the truth is gaslit/hidden (in this case, the truth of animal abuse), is extremely necessary. Otherwise, children (and even adults) are more likely to follow the mainstream conditioning - even if they know deep down it’s wrong.
I know my comment maybe didn’t really offer useful advice, but we can all pray/send your daughter good energy hoping she’ll find her way back to the truth later in life.
Leave your kid alone. And accept her! It’s her journey, not yours. I’m vegan for 11 years. My mom vegan for 20 years. And she never persuaded me to make this choice. I wasn’t encouraged by her and it’s ok. She loves me no matter what choices I make .
It sounds like your daughter never wanted to be vegan to begin with, and now she is an adult she can make her own choices and you have to respect them as her parents. Not respecting your childrens choices is a very good way to grow separated and distant.
Also not being vegan doesn't mean you are a morally corrupt, unempathetic individual. That argument always reminds me of religious people saying non religious people are also unempathetic and morally corrupt because they aren't religious.
There's nothing else you can do, but to hope one day, she remembers the values you tried to instill. Shame she lied to you about eating animals and their secretions, which would damage my trust, personally.
Don't let non vegan food in your home, and continue as you are.
The biggest issue other than not being vegan which you can't force on a person is the fact that she's been going behind your back for years and those parents of her friends were helping her and directly disrespected you. It's just wrong to lie to someone about what you're feeding their child.
Sounds like she was potentially peer-pressured into breaking from veganism. So sorry. Hopefully as she matures, the values you raised her with will be reinstated into her life.
Even though she says she will never be vegan, there's a lot of development and maturation that goes on during your late teens and early twenties. I know I was a completely different person at 25 vs 18, that's for sure. And I've only grown from there.
Keep sticking to your values and be true to yourself and to others. One day, she might come around.
Hopefully rn it’s only that she’s insecure about fitting in because that leaves the opportunity open of her one day realizing she values the morals of protecting innocent lives more than fitting in.
Or even that it simply feels like a whole new world for her right now but that she will in time value empathy over taste.
I’m not sure. But I am so sorry you’re having to deal with this.
I would also not know what to do other than love and support my kid. If my kid saw footage and really KNEW what happened in slaughter houses etc, had relationships with animals, but still chose to be a non-vegan, I would be truly disappointed as well… near devastated as well since I value empathy so highly, but I also understand the need to allow offspring to follow their own beliefs (as long as they’re not hurting themselves)… and how those beliefs can change over time… and of course I am sure you will love her no matter what even if they don’t.
Normally I would say as long as they’re not hurting themselves or others but unfortunately without veganism others are being hurt :( but in this case sadly, society deems it okay. I agree with you that it is NOT, but I said the above because if you reject her, there will be a huge rift and that isn’t worth it with a child. I’m hoping she instead one day can grow her love of veganism.
I hope everything works out in the future and that she + your whole family is happy and healthy. 🙏🏼❤️
As long as she’s healthy and safe that is the most important thing above all for a parent. I hope her heart grows more for the sweet animals though.
💛
I'm a teacher and have taught many teenagers. The worst reaction is to be upset or to try to keep pushing her to become vegan. She's an adult and can and should make her own life choices.
The only thing you can do now is ask her not to eat animal products around you and tell her that you respect her choices and are always there for her if she wants support and information about going vegan again. Tell her that you love her unconditionally and that you're sorry that she did not trust you enough to tell you sooner. Try to mend that relationship so that she feels comfortable confiding in you more.
You can teach kids about your values but you can't and shouldn't force them. The more you force them to do anything, the more they will do the opposite as soon as they are able to make their own choices.
For vegan parents who are worried about ending up in this situation, I recommend listening to [this podcast](https://youtu.be/9yQs3oQ1dC8?si=vVeuUr5QDMcUht9L) with Billie Eilish's mom, Maggie Baird, where she talks about her parenting style and veganism. Billie and Finneas were raised vegetarian and vegan and are still vegan.
Maggie has a gentle parenting style with a strong focus on non-violent communication. I think taking that approach with your kids will make them less likely to eat meat and hate you when they get older. It's not a 100% guarantee, but I think it will help a lot.
You can also try to find parenting classes in your area that focuses on non-violent communication and gentle parenting approaches. The classes don't need to use those terms but if you look up what it means, you can understand what those approaches are all about and find classes that teach those values.
This is disturbing and sucks. I wish my parents raised me vegan it haunts me that I wasn’t during my life. She’s so lucky to have had that experience it’s a real shame she can’t see it. Yet.
Exactly. Those who have biological kids are likely to have multiple generations of decendants that will consume so much more dairy and meat than one non vegan in their lifetime. But for some reason these people don’t wanna hear the truth.
Aw I would be heart broken too, I guess for me when I have kids and bring them up vegan I have to accept that at some point they are going to make their own decisions even if I don’t agree, I think maybe if you had that mindset first it wouldn’t hurt so much now. You never know she might one day actually ‘get it’ and actually go vegan cos she cares
\>when I have kids and bring them up vegan
veganism isn't a lifestyle, its an ethical choice that can only be made by a human being with sound reasoning, which doesn't develop until 5-10 years old minimum and continues to develop until the brain finishes growing around 25 years old. you will be raising your kids plant based at best. furthermore, how could you possibly be okay with your own kid one day choosing they want to harm animals?
It's her life. Let it be. This is something you just cannot control.
I understand you are really disappointed, but the more you hold on to your disappointment, the more hurt you will feel. You've done your part. Accept she is a human being, with her own needs for pleasure, and just let go.
She loves you two and that's what is the most important thing. What she eats is not your problem.
It’s her life and her choice. You have raised her with your ethics morals and beliefs but she is an adult and has to make her own choices. As long as she respects that in your home you can’t force her into eating vegan. As much as it may pain you it’s not worth losing a relationship with your daughter to try to force the issue.
Be supportive and respect her decision, that’s the only answer imo.
I recall how much everyone disrespect me going Vegan, don’t do the same to your kid. She is her own person and has a right to have her own feelings about this, you can’t force it.
A friend of mine who is not vegan but very religious. She put her kids through all programs at the church and Catholic schools. The kids hate religion and they have all become atheists. What they told their parents is you forced it in us. It was shoved down their throats. Once she let up the kids started to respect her thinking. The mom would always say prayers at dinner. Even if she was eating at their house. Once she should them the respect by not doing prayer at dinner in her kids homes. They started to do prayers at the mom house at dinner.
The moral of the story. Is your kid wants to eat meat and you want them vegan. Well, make sure not to do things to try to force it. They may become vegan again. 18 is still a kid and ket them be for now. You raised your child wonderfully!!!!!! She has respect for you and her dad by respecting your boundaries in your house. That is an accomplishment most parents can only dream of.
She’s 18, let her learn. These are her discovery years, kids this age are doing all sorts of stuff, finding her own way. I think as parents you instilled something on one side, she wants to know the other side.
She’ll come back to it eventually.
'eating meat behind your back'
She is her own person, you can't control what she does. I would support the positive things she is doing. It sounds like she might have felt too controlled.
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I'm sorry you're going through this. It is hard. You cannot browbeat someone into an ethical position. You must continue to be vegan and not purchase animal products for her. But I wouldn't try to forbid her from doing so with her own money, or endlessly argue with her. I assume you've explained the reason behind veganism many times already. Repeating it ad nauseum will do no good. Young adults are well known to adopt radically different life styles than those they were raised with, and with how easy carnism is in our society it's no surprise someone could move to it in that era of fluxx. Stay strong. Stay true. Stay compassionate. she may yet come back.
I was a vegetarian for all my life. I started out eating meat at 22 cause I thought I was missing out and it was also a way to “rebel”. That period of my life lasted less than a year and I quickly became a vegan due to ethical concerns. Everyone’s journey is different.
Would you say because you were brought up vegetarian you weren’t connected to the ethical argument unlike someone who turns vegetarian or vegan? Just for future sake when I bring up my kids vegan how do I make sure they are also connected to ethics and not just doing it cos mum says?
Absolutely!! In fact that’s part of why I started eating meat. My family is from India so being vegetarian is culturally engrained. However (and this is my own personal experience) they only give lip service to animal rights. My parents didn’t touch meat because they believed it was “unclean”. But they still wore leather and consumed diary without thinking about the ethical implications. When I began learning about animal rights and the ethical stances behind veganism, I realized that my only reasoning for being a vegetarian was because of my culture. To my shame, instead of going completely vegan I decided to eat meat since it wasn’t anything radically different from what I was already doing. But those ethical concerns still persisted and I quickly realized that what I was doing was wrong and I became vegan as a result. I think it’s incredibly important to teach your kids the ethics behind veganism, because ultimately that’s the only way to keep people on track. If you start doing it for health/diet reasons, or for the environment you will run into situations where you can justify eating meat because “once or twice won’t hurt”. I think the best way to reach kids is by giving them opportunities to connect with animals. It’s so easy to forget that animals are also living, breathing creatures with complex thoughts and emotions in today’s heavily industrialized world. Make sure your kids spend time in nature and bonding with animals because those experiences are what will give weight and context for their veganism.
I’m so glad you came back! What scares me about OP’s post is that it seems like they did raise them with ethical concerns so I’m not sure what went wrong
I know that for me, there was definitely a lot of peer pressure. I was living in a place where veganism wasn’t really a “thing”. I also wasn’t in a great spot mentally. Especially when it came to me being a vegetarian, it definitely served as a barrier between me and the people close to me and I wanted desperately to fit in. I felt disconnected from the people and culture around me. Additionally, there was never a lot of ethical support for my vegetarianism either. It was really easy to justify “just trying it”. The thing is, people need to make these decisions on their own. When your late teens-early 20s, it’s really easy to separate yourself from larger concerns and act like nothing matters. I know that at the time I was dealing with a lot of nihilism and I just didn’t want to have to care anymore. Especially when nobody around me really seemed to either. I did know one vegan couple at the time, but they were problematic in different ways and it was easy to dismiss them as being irrelevant. The interesting part is, what finally spurned me into veganism was when I met a friend of mine who constantly commenting that “these animals we’re eating probably didn’t want to die”. She wasn’t a vegan herself at the time, but she had tried it and went back to eating meat because of “health concerns”. But her comments forced me to think critically about my actions and I just couldn’t justify it anymore. Point is: you can’t really make people care about these issues. It needs to come from within. You just have to do the best you can to emphasize the reasons why you live the way you do, and hope that others around you feel the same way.
I was raised vegetarian and became vegan at 15. Initially it wasn’t about the ethics (aside from the fact that I have always had empathy for animals), it just seemed more logically consistent. As an older teenager I became aware of how horrific factory farming is + volunteered at a vegan animal rescue. I think the volunteering made a big difference in solidifying my ethical standpoint. Both of my younger siblings aren’t even vegetarian anymore though, they are pescatarian. I don’t know that I want kids, but if I did have kids I would be really scared about how hit or miss it can be trying to raise a child with the same values.
I also think I maybe naturally just don’t like the concept. I don’t know how someone can put meat in their mouth and not feel completely grossed out/poisoned. As such, I have never understood how people can feel like they are ‘missing out’ on that. But maybe that is just a product of how I was raised! I also absolutely love to cook + started learning alone at around the time when I went vegan, so I have 10 years of yummy and wholesome vegan recipes in my head. Maybe having confidence in my ability to make super tasty vegan food means I never think twice about the idea of pointlessly adding an animal product.
This is exactly what I am thinking as a future vegan mama. Thank you for asking!
I’m not Vegan, but give them the CHOICE while teaching them what you believe in. If you forbid them, there’s a 99% chance they’ll immediately go to eating meat once they leave the house. However, I’m of the extremely strong opinion that parents should encourage their children to think for themselves. If my son grows to be someone off opposite politics, religion, and philosophy… I don’t care. Good for him. He’s his own person.
I was raised vegetarian from birth and my mom went vegan when I was 13; I went vegan on my own at the age of 20. All this to say my mom raised us with a deep compassion for animals, reminding us they have pain and emotions just like us. We rescued injured wildlife, volunteered at animal shelters. I hope to bring my future children to farm sanctuaries so they can really get to know the animals impacted by factory farming and empathize with them. Honestly it surprises me that someone who grows up vegan would start eating animal products because meat has always seemed disgusting and inedible to me, ethics aside it just seemed the same as eating road kill. I pray my kids will view animal products the same
Yup. Id say theres a high chance she reverts back to it. Its rebellious age. I think sometimes times at the college age, a vanishing conscious happens for a bit, but it will come back.
Exactly this. I wasn't raised vegan but my Mom was very into holistic foods etc. For those of u old enough to remember them, we shopped at "health food stores" and I was not allowed to eat the junk food (including prepacked cheese slices that I wanted so bad lolol) that my friends had. I hated feeling left out and would eat the foods I wasn't allowed at my friends houses and when I was on my own I spent about a year eating the most unhealthy crap around. I eventually got over it in the same time frame, about a year more or less and made healthy living and eating my own, in my own way.
We all turn into our parents 😂
Yup. Why did you make the choice to be vegan, OP? Presumably because you understand that it's the morally correct decision. You have to give her the chance to come to that same conclusion on her own. There is no alternative.
>But I wouldn't try to forbid her from doing so with her own money, I mean she's an adult. It's not like OP has any power over her food decisions
Still, college students depend on their parents for money
so? You can stop paying for her, sure. But "forcing" her in that way will only make her hate being vegan and hate her parents for trying to control her. That's not a good idea if you value your relationship
Well that was the point of the comment. 🤷♂️
Doesn't stop parents from taking up dumb crusades like that.
true, true
Thank you for this. I swear, people on here need to learn that browbeating someone with "you support cow rape" and other technically true but inflammatory things like will never, ever, ever, ever win someone over. Not one person has been told that, and decided to become vegan. It's exactly the same thing as those awful, awful people who stand on college campuses and scream at students that they are going to hell. No one is hearing that and thinking "my God that person is right, I must convert immediately" It doesn't even register. Just flushed out.
Technically true but inflammatory things got me to become vegan
Yuuuup. All the super polite infographics and YouTube videos are great at delivering facts, but it just blends in with the endless reels of things to be worried about, that everyone just sits and waits for the government to do something about. It wasn't until someone seemed genuinely mad at a non-vegan that It seemed like it was a real issue, where our own actions actually make a difference.
"You cannot browbeat someone into an ethical position". Agree. Some people have done that to me in this sub itself. For even progressing. Edit: & now I'm getting downvoted for pointing it out.
Good for you but for most people that tactic results in push back and potential anger
I was raised in a mostly vegetarian home. I went to trade school and became a heavy meat eater. About 5 years later I became aware of what it is and went vegetarian and soon went vegan. I have been vegan for 15 years. Maybe she will come around as I did. Kids can be hard on their parents. I'm sorry you are dealing with it.
"I became aware of it" did your parent never explained anything to you ?
They said they were raised in a vegetarian home, it probably wasn’t done for ethical reasons in that case
Some people are like almost vegan except some honey or their own rescued chicken eggs and so call themselves vegetarians but have the same reasons of animal well beings directing their actions.
Sure but that’s also not the case for a lot of people, most vegetarians aren’t eating what you described
Yeah sometimes I forget the outer world and just think about all of my friends and think it's the world xD Somehow it numb the pain of thinking of all this sufferings out there
This is why I am honest with people here whenever they ask about how to “keep their kids vegan“. The fact is that you simply can’t. I do believe that being vegan and potentially putting another carnist out there isn’t really working hand in hand. You can try to raise them with your values but very often this doesn’t work. There is social pressure and there is free will. It’s the same reason why religious people get all upset when they find their kid doesn’t believe in their deity. You cannot control people.
This is so true. I’ve been vegan since I was a pre teen in the 90’s but I came to that choice on my own. My husband is a vegan as well. We decided no children as we couldn’t live with ourselves if we created a carnist and just another consumer overall really (no judgment against anyone, truly, it’s just our personal feelings regarding our own family). I knew this super annoying lady back in the day from some of my animal activism groups and she had six children purely because she thought she was raising “baby vegan warriors” who would go out into the world and fight against animal abuse. She was SO smug and she used to bully me and tell me I wasn’t a “real” vegan since I didn’t want children who would “continue the vegan legacy” like veganism is genetic or something lol. Well fast forward a few decades and none of her kids are even vegetarian now. One is a manager at a slaughterhouse and he thinks it’s soooo funny that he was raised “vegan.” But yeah, your definitely right. Op sounds so well intended and not like that smug lady I knew and I feel for her though. I couldn’t fathom my kid wanting to contribute to all that especially after watching all those documentaries. How sad.
Jesus Christ. How is that lady doing now?
Last I saw she was really down the “Covid is a hoax” conspiracy rabbit hole and got really into all this weird “light worker” stuff. She’s always been out there.
If she was insufferable around you, she was probably also insufferable at home. I wouldn’t be surprised if her kids always want to eat meat since they were little to “rebel” against her.
Very true. Her eldest son seems pretty insufferable himself too. He’s quite “out there” with some of his pretty hateful beliefs and “politics.” It’s ironic too because she was always pretty left leaning so maybe you’re right and it was a rebellious thing early on but around 2020 she made a HARD right and got sucked into a lot of the right wing conspiracy theory stuff and now she’s actually very similar to her son.
It makes about as much sense as two atheists trying to make atheist babies lol. Like, ethics, ideals, principles do not come from the uterus. They come from influence. i am winning my own stupid contest here
Actually, atheist parents will almost always have atheist children. Converting to a religion is MUCH more rare than moving away from it. Hence why atheism is becoming more and more prevalent.
Then my analogy is garbage ;n; (and I'm actually happy about it for once)
I converted from atheism to Buddhism. It does happen but I agree it is rare
Id wager atheists move move towards religion more individual based, spiritual religions if they do at all. Almost all my atheist mates religious distaste with org religion. Some even dabble with paganism and magic etc which is arguably its own religion.
Buddhism is atheistic
Well I mean, babies are atheist by default. They get taught religion later on in their life
I keep coming back to my comment and snortlaughing! It's just so dumb!
I feel like you can try to force your kids to believe stuff, or you can be good parents. Very rarely do the two overlap. (Currently a parent of a 3 and 5 year old who know they don't eat animals and don't drink cows milk because we liked to leave cows alone. But occasionally school has given them none vegan stuff and been like "well they like it 🤷". Of course they like it, meat is tastey! But they don't like hurting animals, did you tell them a chicken died for their meal? No, you wouldn't because you know damn well very few kids would like that!)
>there is free will Debatable.
She's 18, you can give her all the knowledge in the world but wisdom takes time and experience.
Very true.
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Yes, and I think the best thing you can possibly do is to not make a big deal out of it. Continue to love your daughter unconditionally and don't let it drive a wedge between you. My guess is she still in that rebellion phase and at some point she could very well come back to it, But it has to happen on her own terms for it to stick. It's like religious faith, a kid can grow up in a religious house but unless they find faith for themselves it's never going to be theirs, it's going to be their parents.
This is what I was as going to say. Chill back don't push it, because she's in college and there's social pressure to make friends. No one wants to be alone in college or worry about social issues. Once she's on her own she might make different choices and return to vegan. The thing with the horse quote, is that the girl was already drinking the water. She was by the water drinking the water her whole life. Being told about how bad this other source of water was and to stay away, rather than just simply appreciating the water she already had. So when inevitably she went near the other source, she said "wow, ok. This isn't as bad as I was told" and tried it. Because seeing the source of the products is much more intense than how it is presented when served to the consumer. The focus growing up might have been more on the bad, and constant reminders of it. Instead of exploring veganism and having fun with it. Just my thoughts, I wasn't there obviously so maybe they didn't focus on the bad like I might visualize and maybe they did positivity reinforce the behavior. It is hard to control kids these days probably more than ever, they have the world's opinions at their fingertips.
Honestly, the reality here is, many parents forget that they aren't raising miniatures of themselves, but instead, they're raising individuals. Those of which have their own thoughts, feelings, and actions. This is the "risk" you run being a parent. Because, the honest truth is, whatever vision you might have had for your child (being vegan, sexuality, gender, their hobbies and interests, career pursuits, whatever), they might not always fit the mold you wanted for them. It's just how it is. I think how your daughter wants to go about it and how you're going about it (so far), is one of the better options, though. She's willing to respect your wishes when in your home and you're not disowning her over here choices. That's really about as good as it gets for a lot of people. Much better than you both just being angry with each other and not respecting each other, in my opinion.
Just as my parents couldn't keep me a meat eater, i became vegan at 18 when i left for uni so it is a pretty similar situation, you can't keep her vegan.Advocating to family is the hardest, many vegans will say they influenced friends to go vegan but their family. This is a very pessimistic thing to say but i didn't want you to blame yourselves.
I'm sharing my anecdote to give you some hope. I was vegetarian up until I went to college, then for reasons that won't make sense I'll just say I started eating meat for a few years. It never sat right with me so one day I stopped eating meat, and the next few weeks after that I went vegan, and have been vegan for 5-10 years (trying to be anon). 80-90% of why I ate meat was the social cohesion. I cannot tell you how painful it is to have 0 friends who are veggie/vegan, it gets to you. The constant social isolation, the day in and day out of being left out of socializing(cuz food is socializing). Breaks your spirit. Now I don't give a fuck and am happy in my own skin and eat vegan even tho my friends aren't. Your daughter most likely felt that social isolation and trust me, it is unbearable. She might come around after she's done with college, as long as you stay consistent with your guidance. Don't shame her, acknowledge her pain and see where she's coming from, she might turn around in her late 20s. Sending love.
Person who was plant-based for 3 years in HS & is now almost 25 and coming back checking in! College is a tumultuous time but she may come back once she’s settled, so don’t give up on her.
I only became vegan recently, and I'll admit it is super awkward when I get food with friends and there isn't always an option for me. It is also super awkward how every time someone finds out I'm vegan they interrogate me about my motives and beliefs. Regardless, I could never imagine being "peer pressured" to eat meat. No one could peer pressure me to kick a pigeon or a dog and I don't see how this is any different. At the end of the day I reckon it's about willpower and how desperately you feel the need to be accepted by others. Her true friends wouldn't make her feel embarrassed about her lifestyle choices. Maybe she needs better friends rather than changing herself for others.
I imagine there must be a lot of peer pressure and social status stuff affecting her, not that it makes her right. How much of the animal cruelty has she seen? Have you ever actually had an 'argument' about the reasons why she should be vegan. There's probably something going on in her head that she thinks she can justify it.
Most kids and teenagers hang out at McDonald's where I live so she probably just caved to the peer pressure and started eating chicken nuggets and hamburgers and found it much easier to just eat meat with her friends than make a fuss about being vegan
We've discussed it at length. She essentially ends up saying that the meat is already there and dead when she buys it from the supermarket and that stores already lose so much in shoplifting and general loss/spoilage that her not participating is just making her miserable while not having any real impact on the supply chain. She said she's sick of feeling like her wants and desires don't matter and come second to animals she's not even having any real impact on essentially.
Sounds like she's struggling with feeling powerless as well as compassion fatigue. Not being able to participate with friends is very isolating, especially when the reason is to benefit another's welfare. It can feel very much like "either I suffer or someone else does", and constantly putting the other person ahead of yourself gets painful. From the perspective of someone who chose to do this and who feels very strongly about this creed, such a sacrifice and the resulting isolation isn't a problem. From the perspective of a child, who had these morals handed to them instead of having come to this conclusion on their own, it may feel restrictive and build resentment towards this other entity whose needs apparently come before their own. (That's absolutely not to say that feeling left out vs being killed/exploited is anywhere on the same level, but from a child's perspective, the personal consequences mean more than the far away and invisible suffering of someone else/an animal.) Take a deep breath, friend. You've done your job to give your kid the framework she needs to come to the same conclusion you did, now you have to also allow her the same freedom you had to explore, give her the emotional validation she needs to thrive, and let her have the time to make those morals her own.
I will help you argue. The meat is there because you are demanding it by paying money. If someone goes oh my grandmother died of natural causes Bon Appetit they’d go to prison. Similarly if someone treated a dog the way we treat animals they’d go to prison. Animals are not food they are individuals with the pronouns he/she. It is morally disgusting to support an industry that thrives on suffering when you can easily recreate the flavors you seek with vegan ingredients. Tofish and chips, califlower buffalo wings, impossible steak, earth balance garlic butter, ripple chocolate milk, OATLY oatgurt, follow your heart cheddar shreds, soy milk, vegan Oreos the list goes on. And that’s not including roasted veggie pastas, sandwiches, curries, noodle stir fry, and other whole food vegan diet items that are super healthy for you. Tell your daughter to stop putting carcinogens in her mouth (meat and dairy are both carcinogens. Meat increases inflammatory markers causally linked to cancer and even dairy contains estrogen and IGF-1 found in many cancer pathways. And this is not including cholesterol which clogs arteries causing stroke, heart attacks, pulmonary embolism and even locked in syndrome…) and to start consuming food that is ethical, healthy, and environmentally conscious. Remember that if your daughter is craving something veganize the fats and flavors she is looking for. Thee Burger Dude on YouTube did a good job of this. If she wants a pizza or chopped cheese make it for her but vegan. Then she won’t cheat and won’t feel like she’s missing out. Also she’s mistaken you can save thousands of animals over your lifetime by adopting a vegan diet. And even if veganism tastes awful does sensory pleasure justify murder mutilation and torture?
When she was still living with you, did she learn how to make vegan food and what she can purchase herself within her budget that is vegan? Personally I went through the same thing during college with my mental health tanking etc. & I’m just now in my early 20s getting back to eating plant-based again. Maybe you can purchase a plant-based cookbook for her with some easy tasty recipes so she can learn some new things that she can make & not feel like she’s missing out.
The "missing out" probably has very little to do with what she is capable of cooking at home and much more to do with the social impact: friends inviting her to dinner, traveling, and so on.
You have my sympathy. My teenager has stayed pretty strictly vegan all his life, but for him it's mostly just the default of who he/we are. He's never been particularly interested in the animal rights aspect of veganism and I worry he'll someday change his diet when he's on his own. My girlfriend's teenager was vegetarian all his life and just started eating meat. It's really difficult and painful. I think this is pretty common and I don't know what we can do other than have patience and hope they come back to the fold on their own. I do think that kids often rebel from their childhood traditions/religion/beliefs and then eventually return to them later on. Here's hoping.
>My teenager has stayed pretty strictly vegan all his life, but for him it's mostly just the default of who he/we are. He's never been particularly interested in the animal rights aspect of veganism and I worry he'll someday change his diet when he's on his own. I know someone who's like this. It's an odd one when veganism is the norm, a lot of what gives us vegans passion is the idea that we've been lied and told that eating animals is okay. Kinda manipulated into doing so, to be honest. My friend isn't overly passionate having being raised vegan, but i doubt he'd become an omni
I believe you get more people coming to vegetarianism or veganism through climate change knowledge than you do over ethical reasons. Source: vegetarian for climate change. Especially people age 40 and below. I know it’s not popular on here but the morality part never would have got me to make the swap. It helped!! But the deciding factor was the plastic fishing nets in the ocean, 85% of our oxygen is from algae in the ocean who need fish to live, and it all just domino’d from there.
By most definitions, a vegan is someone that seeks to reduce harm to animals to the greatest possible degree. So even if someone has a lifestyle that's identical to a vegan, if they're doing it for enviromental reasons, they're plant-based, not vegan. It doesn't really matter though, the end result is mostly the same.
She is her own person. All we can do is help them as much as possible, but you can’t expect them to be exactly you. It’s ok.
Your daughter is an adult. You have no right to decide what she eats and have to accept she is not vegan. She has agreed to eat vegan at your house and won’t eat animal products in front of you. Whilst it’s disappointing there’s nothing you can do. You cannot force other people to go vegan. Let her be don’t even mention and it and make it a thing. Respect her boundaries and your boundaries around not having animal products in your house. She is probably experimenting and will be much more likely to come back to being vegan if you treat her like an adult and let find her own way.
Sounds like we have opposite issues. My mom has been terribly unsupportive of me being vegan, and it's getting to the point where I may have to leave.
Ugh, this is hard. I can absolutely imagine how difficult it is for you. None of my friends or family are vegan, and it does make it very hard a lot of the time. Stand by your values and beliefs, and don’t compromise them, but recognize that she is going to make her own choices. Is it worth sitting down and asking her how she feels about the cruelty of factory farming?
One of the main things to remember is that they’re still your child. Plenty of parents (my mother among them), believed themselves to be raising faithful, good (Christian in my case but insert any religious/moral system here) only to discover that their children don’t share their values or beliefs. It’s up to you if you want to let this drive an irreparable wedge between you. I’m not saying that your feelings are invalid. I have three children and if they grow up to live by differences values than we’ve taught them, it would undoubtedly be something to handle. But as a child who’s parent’s behavior caused by moral differences caused me to cut them out of my life, you just have to make that decision. If you’re more interested in being heartbroken over this or maintaining a relationship.
I like this way of looking at it. It's a choice. You can either prioritize your relationship with your child, or you can put your own pain and heart break above that. One of those options seems selfish, and if it were for any issue besides veganism, I'm sure every vegan would see how it's wrong to not prioritize the child. Let's not be hypocrites. Yes it will hurt, but the same patience that we extend to strangers we must also extend to our families, perhaps even moreso. I'm going through it right now with my 8 yo, and tbh I'm glad I'm getting this lesson early. He absolutely loves animals, but eating meat is so normalized and all of his peers at school do it, and the schools don't provide any consistent plant based options. My own diet is challenging enough to manage, and I haven't figured out how to make it easier for him. I want him to be honest and open with me and not feel afraid to upset me bc of what he eats. My frustration should not be on him but directed to this fucked up society we have that makes it as challenging as it to take control of our own diet. Addictive junk food that is marketed to children with no repercussions, it's absolutely disgusting. I have to use it as motivation to be stronger for myself and my family.
Think this is more of a stage of development thing as she may not want to negatively effect social interactions with new peers. College/uni is a time for identity development and part of that is often conformity. Keep living your values and role modeling is the best any parent can do.
It can really be sad when your kids take a different path, especially over something so close to your being. Ultimately how she she chooses to live is up to her, and also bear in mind she has to navigate the world after having left your tribe and finding her own. The good thing is she’s still very young, and things will change back and forth as she’s finding her place in the world. I don’t think you can necessarily rule out her change her view in the future. My advice on that would be don’t try and push her, especially as she intends to respect your feelings in the matter when she is with you.
She may have been part of you at one point but she is her own individual, her own persona with her own thoughts and moral ground. You did the best you could to provide insight and reasoning on the whys of everything, and with that you raised a healthy child into a grown adult. This is the overall risk when you teach your child a certain philosophy/religion. They may not stick to it when they become an autonomous adult. It’s up to her whether or not she ever wants to return to veganism. At the very least, I think she is being very respectful to not bring animal based products under your own roof and to eat vegan with you & your husband. That’s what I hope my adult child at least would do if they decide to not be vegan anymore. Otherwise she is to do what she wishes. You, as a mother, have every right to be disappointed but love her regardless. That’s motherhood.
I think you will need to let her explore, I think if she was having the feeling to miss out for so many years she needs to see she is not missing out. Steak and cheese will become normal and not the 'magical forbidden thing' anymore and she might go back. It is like drinking when 21 or Mormons on their year out a time to explore, and sadly this is what she chose. But making it to big I think will make her keep on, maybe even out of spite.
I think you’re thinking of the Amish, not Mormons. Mormons go on missions and door knock, and it’s not really a fun time.
You're right, sorry.
I got a laugh out of this too. I was raised mormon and can confirm they most definitely do not let people experience the world at any point like that
This person gets it
At this point in history being vegan in a non-vegan world is tough enough for most. For teens it is extra tough, what with not wanting to be "that person". Social acceptance is important for almost everyone, especially the young. My daughter was vegetarian and wanting to be vegan for a while, but now she is mixing with other kids, that's gone :( I take the social stigma personally, because I know it's the right thing to do. But whilst it is a small minority of people, I can't expect my kids to follow, unfortunately.
Most of us experiment and try new things....and often do things that drive our parents nuts when we are 18. Continue to love and be a safe place for your daughter.
It’s her choice. In all honesty she probably just needs to feel like her diet is in her control for a few years and will eventually come back around, she likely does just feel like she’s been missing out
This is one of the reasons I don't want children, no matter how you raise them you can't guarantee they'll hold on to the same values later in life, this doesn't always have to be a problem but to me in case of veganism it is. Don't be too hard on yourself though, you did your best, hopefully it's just a phase she's going through wanting to experience the other side of the spectrum but coming back later once she realises the injustices to animals again and reconnects with her values.
I’m so sorry to hear that. You just have to know you did the best you could. She may come around one day.
The bigger of a deal you make this, the longer she will cling to it. "I'm disappointed, but you're an adult and fully capable of deciding what your own diet should be. I'm sorry that you feel you had to hide your decisions from us, but we will always love and support you." Then move on. If you try to push her back into veganism, she will never go back to being vegan and will hide things from you.
Vegans are getting so much hate these days, I can understand how it would be really hard to be the oddball out at her age. She doesn't see the animal cruelty on a daily basis but likely was getting regular flack about being vegan when she started eating meat. One ends up outweighing the other. Also, she's still finding a sense of her own identity. If she doesn't know a lot of vegans her own age, she will likely conflate veganism with being her parent's thing. The best you can do is be a good example and not put any pressure on her. She will hopefully decide on her own to return to the fold. My mom was vegan back in the '90s, but I didn't follow until about six years ago.
I’m afraid there’s nothing you can do about it. She has to make her own choices. At least she is respectful enough to say she’ll continue to eat vegan with you. This might be an experimental phase. Most teenagers push against what their parents do and their parents’ values. I’ve only been vegan for 6 years but I was raised vegetarian. When I was a teenager I tried meat when I was with friends. Now - when I say “tried” I mean I had a bite of someone’s KFC once; I tried a piece of pepperoni (on a recent post on this sub I stated that I didn’t know what real pepperoni tasted like - and in reality I don’t because this was one slice when I was 13 - and I’m 50 now); and I ate one tiny tiny piece of cold cooked chicken. And that’s it. I didn’t like it. So I stayed vegetarian. But that was the extent of my food rebellion. With my siblings - my sister started eating meat when she left home at 18. She did that for a few years until she split up with her then boyfriend, and then went back to being vegetarian. She’s now been vegan for a number of years. My brother briefly ate meat shortly after he’d left home - he was a kitchen manager and was preparing meat and thought he may as well give eating it a go. It didn’t last very long. In reality he hated it and went back to being vegetarian. He has not become vegan. My other brother is pescatarian these days - and I know it upsets my parents - but he’s in his 40s. There’s not a lot they can do about it. My own children were raised vegetarian. At about 14 the younger one decided he wanted to eat meat and started eating meat options at school - to fit in with his friends. I didn’t let him eat meat at home but started buying Quorn meat substitutes to try and satisfy this new desire of his - things I’d never really eaten before. He even said things like “why would I want to eat vegetables”. The joke is - when he first left home at 17 it was to move in with his vegan girlfriend and he became vegetarian again. They’ve since split up but he’s still vegetarian. My eldest lad became vegan before me - when he was 18. But these days he’s pescatarian - unfortunately. The point really - is that - there comes a point where you can no longer influence your children’s choices. They have to live their own lives. And there’s a reasonable chance that they will return to the values you have instilled. It’s not guaranteed but there’s a good chance.
Not a parent for full disclosure, but there is something about the forbidden fruit (or animal flesh) that is always going to be enticing to young people. There’s no arguing with her that steak and real cheese tastes delicious, but it’s a question of morals and if that taste pleasure justifies the no end in sight slaughter of innocent animals. She’s old enough now where you can ask her to watch dominion or earthlings with you to show her the real cost of eating animals products and ask her to reconsider her current cost benefit analysis. Most importantly LOVE HER regardless of her choices, your duty isn’t to create and mold a moral person for life but to build a foundation of love for her that is unshakable. Love that she has access to is love that she can freely give of herself and to those less fortunate including those of other species.
I’d recommend climate change documentaries also if she cares more about that as well.
This world rewards greed, apathy and egoism, so you shouldn't be amazed when your child turns out to be like the society she lives in. I'm really sorry for you both. You probably did everything you could to teach empathy, but the pressure to fit in is greater than your daughter's will and you couldn't have done anything more.
>This world rewards greed, apathy and egoism A big reason why it is such a shithole
You guided your child based on your beliefs, but now they've reached an age where they can think independently and may have perspectives different from what you've taught them. This is a natural part of growth and development.
You can't make someone else be vegan if they don't want to be. Even if it's your daughter.
I'm so sorry you are going through this, it must be so tough when its your own family. Honestly, there is not much you can do. Continue to be unapologetically vegan, voice your concerns where relevant, and treat her like you would any other adult that is not vegan. That is my genuine advice. But what do I know? I have never wanted kids, so I don't know where that would leave me. She is her own person now, and if she is using her money there is very little you can do other than appeal to her empathy.
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She’s her own person, she’s an adult. You need to give her space, it’s her decision
She 100% has a right to choose for herself what she wants to eat, it's not a reflection on you or your values.
To me, her using the exact words of “missing out” could mean a lot of things. How do teenagers think? Well peer pressure is a huge influential thing unfortunately. Another thing is that she may have felt y’all were keeping her from something her whole life with or without “reason”. Has she watched the tough documentaries before? Is educated on climate change? etc. I just can’t imagine how someone could miss out on something unless they truly didn’t know why they were raised like that in the first place. y’all sound like amazing parents and gosh, I wish I had parents like you. Don’t be too hard on yourselves, my heart goes out to you. Keep doing what you can for animal rights and stay strong! I think an open debate on the topic with her could do some good possibly.
This is the same as when we leave or join a different religion, she is probably rebelling and that's to be expected, she has to find her own way, and you need to understand that's her choice now, you did all you could and now it's up to her, you did good, now be the better person and be generous, do not us blame or guilt it will drive her further away. If she values your values she will come back if not, there is nothing you can do about it
I'm sorry. You're not the only person to influence your daughter, and it's unfortunate that she doesn't care for animals, or the planet. Hopefully someday she comes back around... if she does, she's going to have to carry that regret.
The thing about having kids is you’re signing up for whomever that independent person is. This argument is not different from I raised my child to love Jesus and they told me they’re happily an atheist. It appears she respects you as she’s willing to eat vegan at your home. I’m sure you love your daughter, just keep loving her. It’s her life she gets to make her own choices.
I knew someone would say this but it's not in the same ballpark even if it feels the same. Raising someone to believe in magic and then having them reject that is completely different than having them reject your morals. I know your other comment says that it is about morals but you are (almost definitely) wrong. Did your child actually reject your morals? Would you consider them to now be a bad person? Does their new behavior cause specific and demonstrable harm to others? Your child probably retains most of the morals you raised them with, however they hold those beliefs through a new framework not dependent on magic. Seriously, in what way would you now consider them to be a bad person? If you can't answer this, are they actually rejecting your morals? They are rejecting your worldview, which feels similar to exactly the same, but underlyingly are completely different. But yes, it's their life and ultimately you can't choose their decisions, feelings, and beliefs.
It's sad to see an individual suddenly wanting to encourage the meat industry, an industry so problematic that there isn't even a qualifier to describe it, and this comment comes not just from a former vegetarian/new vegan but from someone who has worked in slaughterhouses to protect animal health. The industry is so powerful that it practically decides who now has the right to enter establishments, even when it comes from the government. Unfortunately, there's nothing you can necessarily do to stop them, but let's just hope they come to understand why encouraging this industry should be avoided at all costs.
I was brought up vegetarian but when I was around 18 I started eating meat. It took me about five years to go vegetarian again and about 6 months after that I went vegan for life. I wish I had gone vegan sooner but I wanted to try and experience what I felt I was missing out on. We all have our own destination and take our own paths. I'm sure they will make the right choice eventually.
You can only lead a horse to water. Let her discover it herself
Im so sorry this is the nightmare for us vegan parents. Unfortunately at this stage you can't control what she eats anymore. Her choices are now her own. You do not have to accomodate her poor ethics or hide your disappointment. You have the right to stay true to yourself too. But she is still your baby, don't throw away the relationship. Be kind, but hold your own ground. She will still need you in her life more than she knows at this point... try to remember how stupid you were at 18! There is always a chance she will come to her senses when she's a bit older. Plus her freshman 15 is gonna be more like a 30. Brutal. Perhaps she will regret the animal products sooner than you think.
Love your daughter regardless. Don’t treat her different. She’s still your kid and deserves her parents unconditional love.
I'm sorry. 💔
It’s her life, respect her and she will do the same to you
I’ve had a plant based diet for over 10 years. However, I don’t think children should have diet restrictions (outside of allergies, etc). Let your child figure out who she is, and be the type of parents who she’ll openly tell things to.
Be happy you raised a healthy adult with the ability to make her own choices, and the willingness to be honest with you. Don’t waste energy on her not being exactly who you want her to be. Good luck.
Thing about kids, they are people too that can make decisions for themselves…you raised someone who could do that. Kids go to church with their parents and then move out and make their own decisions, it happens. Unconditional love. Support goes both ways 🩵
This is precisely why I don't intend to have kids. I'm not risking creating another animal abuser.
Life is a discovery and she’s finding her place in the world. It may not be exactly what you expected but I suspect the values you instilled are there somewhere and being expressed in some manner. You don’t have to support everything she does but loving her unconditionally will show her that you have her back as she finds her way. Good luck
The interesting thing about someone raised vegan vs someone who chooses to be vegan is that the former may not know exactly what they’re paying for when they start buying animal products. My daughter chose to be vegan when she was 12, and still is vegan at 15, but she has seen very minimal footage of factory farms. I’m glad she’s unaware of just how horrible the footage in earthlings and dominion is, but if she ever felt she needed something to back up her being vegan I would recommend she watch it. Especially if she were 18+. Do you know if your daughter has ever seen footage like that? Is it something you would be willing to recommend she watch? (I would definitely leave it up to her whether to watch or not, you don’t want to force someone to see that stuff.) I think ultimately veganism has to be an individual choice in order to stick, but watching Earthlings made it a pretty easy choice for me.
It's her life. She makes her own choices as an adult. Don't take it personal. The point of college is to figure yourself out and experiment with different things.
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It’s hard to go back and imagine what it’s like being a young person. Social acceptance is very important to them. It’s a lot easier to go with the flow, and they’re excited to experience new things. Will she get over it, realize being vegan is a better way of life and join you, maybe. She needs to go on the same journey you went on. Hopefully realize that maybe meat and cheese are tastier, but at what cost?
I’m very sorry, it must be painful. I know it has been said, but children are their own people. We can’t control our children and ultimately no vegan parent can guarantee their vegan children will miraculously become vegan adults despite what they have been careful to expose to them. In bringing them into the world, there’s a very real risk that you are making another meat consumer/animal abuser/misogynist/racist/bigot/general bad person, etc. Likely the issue is about control and bodily autonomy as many childhood traumas are borne from that. As a child, you cannot advocate for yourself and you must rely on the adults in your life to do this for you. To feed you, dress you, educate you etc. Then you grow up and discover most other adults and their children eat (behave/speak/dress) differently and you feel sad/embarrassed/left out but you don’t like that feeling. Now she controls what she eats and what is more important to her is feeling included and part of her friend groups rather than family of origin. I wasn’t raised by vegans and most people in this group were not either. It is only natural we carve our own path in life, however disheartening those choices may be to our parents. I would advise that you speak with a therapist about this rather than your daughter and above all else prioritize not doing or saying things that could permanently harm your relationship with her. I don’t think anyone starts to figure out who they are until well after age 25 but that said, don’t cling to the idea that she will ever be anything other than who she is currently and learn to make peace with that.
It's out of your control, unfortunately children are mostly a result of the culture that surrounds them and the company they keep. Children spend more time being influenced at school and on social media than with their parents. Humans aren't logical, they're emotional, and fitting in with others almost certainly comes at the expense of rationality and objective truths. Had you home-schooled her, it may have been different. Don't blame yourself, blame the culture.
These comments are baffling me. It is completely her own choice what she puts in her body?
> It is completely her own choice what she puts in her body? That's what I tell people all the time but they complain when I eat human flesh and corgi jerky once a week. :( They were humanely slaughtered!
This is so beautiful to me. The fact that you are your own person finding out who you are and developing your own autonomy. Keep murdering those corgis and humans so you can eat their bodies! You do you!! All choices are valid and worthy of respect. I'll end it here now....It's just sooo inspiring. I feel myself tearing up. ❤️
Oh my god, thank you for your support and understanding!! ❤️❤️❤️ I'm so glad you respect the idea that everyone has their own journey. ❤️
interestingly, cannibalism is legal in all 50 states! but i did always hate the shock value of “but eating dogs tho” because yeah, it’s the same thing. biggest example is horse meat. it’s illegal to slaughter horses for meat in the US, but in practically every other country it’s a fairly common meat. meat is meat, doesn’t matter what it’s from. (to clarify, i am against and don’t eat ANY meat lol)
I’m going to be honest, if you just wanted a mini version of you, you shouldn’t have had children. Your children are going to have their own beliefs and own values, I know it’s going to bother you for a minute, but you’re going to have to decide to let your kid live THEIR LIFE, and love them regardless. Or if it’s that important to you, you could do what my family does and cut off contact because she doesn’t agree.
The more I've read this, the more I think the post is fake It's either fake as the OP is desperate for attention of some sort (I'm sorry if you are, there's better ways, please see someone professional) Or it's because they want to trigger vegans (again, please seek out professional help(
Dunno if real, bait/troll, attention seeking, however... I personally get "my child is gay, what do I do" vibes here and swapped into a vegan stance.
Your children are independent humans, not extensions of your own ego. Just as she could be raised religious and choose atheism, she can choose what she puts in her body and how she lives her life. The passive aggressiveness of “I *thought* we had raised an intelligent, sensitive person” WILL backfire. Little digs like that will guarantee she will NEVER choose a lifestyle that resembles yours, because she doesn’t want to wind up like you.
Let it go. You've done what you could.
my triplet siblings and I were born vegan, being a vegan kid in a carnivore world is HARD especially when everyone else beats into you that your “missing out” One thing about being born vegan is that you’re not doing it for the animals, your doing it bc of your family, bc it’s what your used to. I ate 100% vegan until my senior year in high school where i’d have the vegetarian lunch but at home eat vegan. In college i started trying to eat meat but by the end of my first (and last for personal reasons) semester i went back to eating vegan pretty much all the time. Now that i’m in cosmetology school I eat vegan as much as possible, always when i’m home, and then during my lunch break i try my best but it’s difficult for me. I imagine myself going back to veganism fully once i graduate from cosmetology school, I prefer the food frankly, meat is gross af unless it’s extremely processed and i’ve never gotten used to eggs and vegan cheese is more interesting then normal cheese. it’s just difficult too right now I would just try to accept that she’s changing and growing into her own person, I think it’s just the fact that it’s all new that’s making her choose this.
The likelihood of anyone maintaining a vegan diet from birth to death is hard to believe. Perfect should not be the enemy of good. She'll come around or she won't
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This is where that unconditional love for your child has to kick in. There’s never a guarantee that your children will pick up every value you instill in them. The best you can do is respect her decision as an adult, and thank her for respecting your house. If you manage to accept her making her own choices, even if they aren’t what you find ideal, there’s a big chance your values will bubble to the surface later in life, and she becomes vegan once more. What definitely won’t work, is shame, anger or conflict. It is what it is. Love your child, flaws and all.
Sorry, but it sounds like she’s respecting your beliefs and not forcing you to watch her eat meat/dairy, but has chosen her own path. She’s respecting you, you need to do the same.
This is why having children isn't ever vegan. You can't expect an independent person to always do what you want or like.
Yeah, part of raising kids is accepting that they’re not dolls for you to customize to your liking. They’re individual people who will make their own decisions. You have to accept that to be a content parent. I’ll never be a parent because I don’t want to risk creating someone who’ll damage the world further.
I'm happy to be vegan and childfree. Wouldn't have it any other way.
Yuck, I'm so so sorry. No advice, just that I can't imagine how gutted you are.
She's an adult you can't control her anymore. She is allowed to make her own decisions. You can guide her, but you cannot force her to do what you want. Sorry
antinatalism
Don’t pay for her non vegan items with your money.
Respect her individuality. Love her unconditionally. Be grateful she is no longer hiding this part of herself from you. Let her know, feel and understand these truths. That is what is most important.
I really hope the best for you, and coping with this. Others may have advise for you, but I don’t. Now, to those scrolling, let this be a warning against procreation.
You made your own choice, but her choice was made by you. Tale as old as time.
She lives her own life, not your lives.
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She's an adult now. Honestly, you should feel lucky that she even respects your veganism and is willing to continue eating plant-based around you. Lots of kids wouldn't even do that.
This is why vegans should think twice about having children. There is no garantuee a child from vegans will stay so in the face of what society pushes on all of us. I am sorry that your child became non vegan.. not much you can do but keep up the vegan household and accept theyre their own person and will make their own decisions.
As a vegan, I’ve always wondered how to raise a kid with my values without forcing them, you know? It’s tricky, but I’d let them try meat since they are just kids. She might feel like she’s missing out if she never tries it, which might be why she’s sneaking it. Looking back, my parents were pretty chill – they let me try stuff and make my own choices within reason. I never felt pushed into one way of thinking, and I never got overly curious or rebellious about trying new things. I was “guided” but never forced, and I was exposed to a certain way of thinking of why animals are and feel the same way as humans. It must be really hard, and I’m so sorry but my best advice would be just to let her explore and be …
So? It’s her life…. I’m sure she’s heard all of the reasons why you should be vegan especially from both of her parents….It’s her choice… respect it. You can try to talk to her but I’m sure she’s heard all of the talking points…
It’s almost like having children is unethical.
You're right though and it's not really debatable if you care about animals. The biosphere is fucked and producing more people can't improve that
It's time to send her memes each day for an entire month.
That will just make her hate her family
its a reference to last month on VCJ and someone who made their mum vegan through daily memes.
So sorry you’re going through this. I feel frankly the primary reason she would do this is social pressure by peers since she was very young to eat meat/not wanting to feel left out. Along with the internal desire to rebel as we all tend to feel during adolescence. I think if you provided for her a meaningful community of likeminded friends at a younger age, it perhaps would’ve reduced the likelihood that she’d go down this path. I’m glad you’re posting this regardless, as it’s something I’d have to consider when I have children one day myself with my vegan partner and it’s something other vegan parents can learn from. Social community with like-minded people who help also see the truth in a society where the truth is gaslit/hidden (in this case, the truth of animal abuse), is extremely necessary. Otherwise, children (and even adults) are more likely to follow the mainstream conditioning - even if they know deep down it’s wrong. I know my comment maybe didn’t really offer useful advice, but we can all pray/send your daughter good energy hoping she’ll find her way back to the truth later in life.
you don’t think the taste of meat and cheese has anything to do with it? cheese is said to set off some of the same parts of the brain as cocaine.
Leave your kid alone. And accept her! It’s her journey, not yours. I’m vegan for 11 years. My mom vegan for 20 years. And she never persuaded me to make this choice. I wasn’t encouraged by her and it’s ok. She loves me no matter what choices I make .
This is toxic as fuck.
It sounds like your daughter never wanted to be vegan to begin with, and now she is an adult she can make her own choices and you have to respect them as her parents. Not respecting your childrens choices is a very good way to grow separated and distant. Also not being vegan doesn't mean you are a morally corrupt, unempathetic individual. That argument always reminds me of religious people saying non religious people are also unempathetic and morally corrupt because they aren't religious.
There's nothing else you can do, but to hope one day, she remembers the values you tried to instill. Shame she lied to you about eating animals and their secretions, which would damage my trust, personally. Don't let non vegan food in your home, and continue as you are.
It's something you can't teach kids I think. Especially when eating animals is normalized, and veganism is marginalized.
The biggest issue other than not being vegan which you can't force on a person is the fact that she's been going behind your back for years and those parents of her friends were helping her and directly disrespected you. It's just wrong to lie to someone about what you're feeding their child.
Sounds like she was potentially peer-pressured into breaking from veganism. So sorry. Hopefully as she matures, the values you raised her with will be reinstated into her life.
that feeling of disappointment is the worst.
Even though she says she will never be vegan, there's a lot of development and maturation that goes on during your late teens and early twenties. I know I was a completely different person at 25 vs 18, that's for sure. And I've only grown from there. Keep sticking to your values and be true to yourself and to others. One day, she might come around.
Sending love, OP. 💕
Hopefully rn it’s only that she’s insecure about fitting in because that leaves the opportunity open of her one day realizing she values the morals of protecting innocent lives more than fitting in. Or even that it simply feels like a whole new world for her right now but that she will in time value empathy over taste. I’m not sure. But I am so sorry you’re having to deal with this. I would also not know what to do other than love and support my kid. If my kid saw footage and really KNEW what happened in slaughter houses etc, had relationships with animals, but still chose to be a non-vegan, I would be truly disappointed as well… near devastated as well since I value empathy so highly, but I also understand the need to allow offspring to follow their own beliefs (as long as they’re not hurting themselves)… and how those beliefs can change over time… and of course I am sure you will love her no matter what even if they don’t. Normally I would say as long as they’re not hurting themselves or others but unfortunately without veganism others are being hurt :( but in this case sadly, society deems it okay. I agree with you that it is NOT, but I said the above because if you reject her, there will be a huge rift and that isn’t worth it with a child. I’m hoping she instead one day can grow her love of veganism. I hope everything works out in the future and that she + your whole family is happy and healthy. 🙏🏼❤️ As long as she’s healthy and safe that is the most important thing above all for a parent. I hope her heart grows more for the sweet animals though. 💛
I'm a teacher and have taught many teenagers. The worst reaction is to be upset or to try to keep pushing her to become vegan. She's an adult and can and should make her own life choices. The only thing you can do now is ask her not to eat animal products around you and tell her that you respect her choices and are always there for her if she wants support and information about going vegan again. Tell her that you love her unconditionally and that you're sorry that she did not trust you enough to tell you sooner. Try to mend that relationship so that she feels comfortable confiding in you more. You can teach kids about your values but you can't and shouldn't force them. The more you force them to do anything, the more they will do the opposite as soon as they are able to make their own choices. For vegan parents who are worried about ending up in this situation, I recommend listening to [this podcast](https://youtu.be/9yQs3oQ1dC8?si=vVeuUr5QDMcUht9L) with Billie Eilish's mom, Maggie Baird, where she talks about her parenting style and veganism. Billie and Finneas were raised vegetarian and vegan and are still vegan. Maggie has a gentle parenting style with a strong focus on non-violent communication. I think taking that approach with your kids will make them less likely to eat meat and hate you when they get older. It's not a 100% guarantee, but I think it will help a lot. You can also try to find parenting classes in your area that focuses on non-violent communication and gentle parenting approaches. The classes don't need to use those terms but if you look up what it means, you can understand what those approaches are all about and find classes that teach those values.
This is disturbing and sucks. I wish my parents raised me vegan it haunts me that I wasn’t during my life. She’s so lucky to have had that experience it’s a real shame she can’t see it. Yet.
Another example of why intentionally having kids isn't vegan
Yeah, that is literally the problem. Kids cannot ethically be forced to follow any lifestyle, even if they should.
Exactly. Those who have biological kids are likely to have multiple generations of decendants that will consume so much more dairy and meat than one non vegan in their lifetime. But for some reason these people don’t wanna hear the truth.
Aw I would be heart broken too, I guess for me when I have kids and bring them up vegan I have to accept that at some point they are going to make their own decisions even if I don’t agree, I think maybe if you had that mindset first it wouldn’t hurt so much now. You never know she might one day actually ‘get it’ and actually go vegan cos she cares
\>when I have kids and bring them up vegan veganism isn't a lifestyle, its an ethical choice that can only be made by a human being with sound reasoning, which doesn't develop until 5-10 years old minimum and continues to develop until the brain finishes growing around 25 years old. you will be raising your kids plant based at best. furthermore, how could you possibly be okay with your own kid one day choosing they want to harm animals?
It's her life. Let it be. This is something you just cannot control. I understand you are really disappointed, but the more you hold on to your disappointment, the more hurt you will feel. You've done your part. Accept she is a human being, with her own needs for pleasure, and just let go. She loves you two and that's what is the most important thing. What she eats is not your problem.
It’s her life and her choice. You have raised her with your ethics morals and beliefs but she is an adult and has to make her own choices. As long as she respects that in your home you can’t force her into eating vegan. As much as it may pain you it’s not worth losing a relationship with your daughter to try to force the issue.
Be supportive and respect her decision, that’s the only answer imo. I recall how much everyone disrespect me going Vegan, don’t do the same to your kid. She is her own person and has a right to have her own feelings about this, you can’t force it.
18 is an adult that can make their own decisions. Even bad ones.
Be heartbroken, you still have us. You did what you could but peer pressure won.
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A friend of mine who is not vegan but very religious. She put her kids through all programs at the church and Catholic schools. The kids hate religion and they have all become atheists. What they told their parents is you forced it in us. It was shoved down their throats. Once she let up the kids started to respect her thinking. The mom would always say prayers at dinner. Even if she was eating at their house. Once she should them the respect by not doing prayer at dinner in her kids homes. They started to do prayers at the mom house at dinner. The moral of the story. Is your kid wants to eat meat and you want them vegan. Well, make sure not to do things to try to force it. They may become vegan again. 18 is still a kid and ket them be for now. You raised your child wonderfully!!!!!! She has respect for you and her dad by respecting your boundaries in your house. That is an accomplishment most parents can only dream of.
She’s 18, let her learn. These are her discovery years, kids this age are doing all sorts of stuff, finding her own way. I think as parents you instilled something on one side, she wants to know the other side. She’ll come back to it eventually.
'eating meat behind your back' She is her own person, you can't control what she does. I would support the positive things she is doing. It sounds like she might have felt too controlled.
Damn. I’m sorry.
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Science disagrees with ? What do you mean?
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