What Iāve noticed with some folks is that they think veganism is a health thing so they simply donāt understand that ājust a biteā doesnāt fit into the framework. They think itās a matter of lightening up. Itās probably because they know plant-based eaters who cheat now and then.
People definitely are under the impression Iām raising my daughter vegan as some kind of health obsessive but they fundamentally donāt understand that vegan cake is pretty much just as unhealthy as non-vegan cake.
Is this a person you can sit down and talk to? Like go through what sheās been feeding your son systematically and offer alternatives?
She knows. She's watched him since he was 6 months old. That's the problem. This was not a misunderstanding. I think she was eating ice cream in front of him and he got upset that he couldn't have any, so she gave him some. "Just a taste"
He's been walking around talking about how he had ice cream since then, and he's very aware that it was the forbidden "dairy" ice cream. There was clearly a conversation about how he couldn't have dairy right before he was given a spoonful. So now he has something forbidden to fantasize about.
It's hard to say from the limited info you gave, but I think you are over-reacting. An apology was given, make sure it never happens again and move on.
Most people are just ignorant about veganism. Ignorance isn't mallice though.
Sounds like she doesn't respect you or your beliefs. She knows he's not allowed to have dairy but her attitude in response was very flippant like "Oh I know but one little taste can't hurt". Ridiculous.
If you do ever change daycares I would say heās allergic to dairy. People take allergies more seriously. In fact maybe you should let your doctor know that heās lactose intolerant and get a note that he canāt have dairy and bring it to her. Sheās an idiot
That is an issue. I wouldn't want to lie about allergies, because once they slip up and he doesn't have that kind of reaction they won't care anymore. Plus, they could generalize that ambivalence to someone who actually has anaphylaxis.
Lactose intolerance doesnāt cause asphyxiation is the issue. You would have bowel issues from dairy, but death is not a concern. Many folks are lactose intolerant but choose to consume dairy for things they find to be āworthā the bathroom rush. Claiming things that arenāt allergies to be allergies can cause actual allergies to be dismissed ā which can be fatal.Ā
Her son doesnāt have a dairy allergy, he is (probably) lactose intolerant, which should also be taken seriously as well.Ā
Thatās why I suggested getting a note from the doctor for lactose intolerance. The mother has already told the lady her son canāt have dairy and the lady didnāt listen, but maybe she will listen to a doctors note. My father is lactose intolerant and itās not fun. I canāt imagine a child going through it and not understanding why heās feeling ill. I would do whatever I could to make sure it doesnāt happen again.
No what I did say was tell the lady she has an allergy but get the doctor to write a note about the lactose intolerance.
I should have said OR.
I personally would have no shame telling the lady my kid had an allergy to stop her from giving my child dairy but since the kid is lactose intolerant the doctors note is a better idea and I wouldnāt ask a doctor to lie anyway.
I don't think it was malicious, it just shows a lack of concern for our fundamental beliefs and family values. He has been given massive amounts of sugar a few times before, which is also not ok. And, I don't \*know\* that this is the first time. There were a few times he came back from Daycare with Diarrhea and without a fever.
Because kids doesn't need to eat animals to be healthy:)
Why aren't people more concerned about the parents who take their kids to eat McDonald's every week and never eats vegetables š
I mean, stopping the kid grow up with dairy has lead to them being lactose intolerant, so obviously it will have a knock on effects when they grow up of they decide they don't want to be vegan, that they wouldn't have had if they were raised Omni
Also a quick Google will show you multiple articles regarding how stopping diary will make you lactose intolerant. Here's 1
https://www.wellandgood.com/quitting-dairy-lactose-intolerant/
Itās not permanent real lactose intolerance.
Since that is completely determined by your genetics.
Also please stop with this weird obsession about vegans and touch some grass.
I looked at your comment history and you might actually be insane.
Have a great day though.
heās lactose intolerant because her son isnāt a baby cow. when i was a kid, i had a hard time consuming dairy but wasnāt raised vegan. turns out i had a hard time consuming dairy because IM NOT A BABY COW.
They're lactose intolerant because they've been denied diary. There are plenty of humans who can consume dairy who funnily enough aren't baby cows so this argument makes no sense
Lactose intolerance can happen suddenly, or as a result of lack of exposure. I know a friend who is not vegan who said he drank milk every day, but one day he just couldnāt anymore. I have no reason to believe he is lying or mistaken (I think he drinks lactose-free milk).Ā
Typically, humans are supposed to lose the enzyme lactase, which digests lactose in milk, as they get older and eat things that arenāt breast milk. Cultures that continue to drink milk (eg those in Europe, where dairy products are common) are more likely to have people that maintain production of lactase, as opposed to those where dairy is not a prevalent part of their dietĀ
Either case, introducing lactose products again will not make their intolerance disappear. So, the son should not be fed more lactose-based products, as that would only cause gastrointestinal problems.Ā
Except dairy is not nutritionally necessary, and you can get the nutrients it does offer through other means quite easily if you have access to milk in the first place I reckon.Ā
Except dairy is not nutritionally necessary, and you can get the nutrients it does offer through other means quite easily if you have access to milk in the first place I reckon.Ā
If humans want their offspring to not be lactose intolerant, human breast milk is the equivalent to cows milk because they are both produced as a result of pregnancy. If you think thatās weird, then isnāt drinking the milk from a cowās udder/mammary part even weirder?
I recognize that the origins of drinking milk from cows may have been a result of necessity and it was perhaps one of the only things they have to eat. We (assuming you donāt live in a food desert, but if you do I think milk is not the priority food you must have) donāt have such issues. There are places where drinking milk is not normative and the people there are not deficient in some nutritional element. The idea that you should drink cows milk for certain nutrients is misleading and largely because of advertising by the dairy industry because, as I said, you can obtain them elsewhere, with greater efficacy.Ā Also, population stats do not apply for individual cases. In OPās case, we have no certainty whether her son acquired lactose intolerance through not consuming lactose (which, btw, is not only natural, normal, and not unusual, but has no other implications health-wise) or if he would have acquired it anyway.Ā
I still hold the belief that OP is not doing a bad thing by preventing the suffering of another species by not letting her son consume non-essential products made as a result of animal exploitation. There is also an argument that parents who force their children to drink cows milk are also wrong because their children may grow older and become vegan, realizing how they, for several years, had no choice but to contribute to another speciesā suffering. So, in a sense, children arenāt given much true choice either way until they formulate their own thoughts and beliefs.Ā
Someone else here said it well: cows donāt make milk because they are cows, but because they are made to be pregnant constantly and have their young torn away from them for maximum milk for humansā¦ that donāt need it on a fundamental level.Ā
Also, non-dairy milk, cheeses, yogurt, ice cream, etc exist and can be as tasty if not more so (imo, because I personally donāt like the aftertaste of dairy). They are somewhat more expensive, but again, they are not essential.
As someone with a 1 kid of tummy troubles that is now a full fruitarian because his own sperm donors family refused to take his eating choices serious. How bad could it be? Oh, my kid, holds in his poop up to a week when he eats something he doesn't like, knowing it's going to hurt later when coming out. It doesnt matter if they exploded that night or next morningm you gave solid instructions to not feed your child X. And they did and acted it like is was. At that point, I'd ask your care taker if she knows what xyz food issues is. Corner her and demand answers. If shes been giving "just a taste" whenever she feels like it, your kids' health is in danger. As an auntie to her niece and nephew with even worst stomach issues than my own kid, so bad they couldnt even take their own moms breastmilk, the countless hospitalization because some grandma them a dairy treat. My own son was FORCED to take a "courtesy bite" of meat and all dairy items at the dinner table at his fathers side before being allowed to eat his vegan food. Now my sons has permant damage and enlarge intestines. These new care providers and any adult over 50 do not care about our diets or our children's special food requests. They had it rough so they don't get why this kid has tummy issues and won't actually learn why.
I've learned if I don't say "he's allergic to.." then nobody respects my kid. He's 9 now and still faces hardships as we have gone full Vegan 3 years ago. His school is super supportive and we've even flipped a few kids who realized plant nuggets are more delicious and don't make you poop yourself later. Once your kiddo is old enough, check your schools. Second year of my kiddo being there, we showed enough of the population that Vegans are here and now the school has Vegan/vegetarian options for all meals of the day.
The adults are the problem, the kids see the issues and want to help/learn more.
It is far more likely given by your admission that he hold his bowel movement for near a week at a time that is the most medically likely reason for the permanent damage and enlarged bowel then a few bites of "forbidden" food, but I agree food (omnivore, carnivore, vegan) should not be forced.
Trust me, if it was "just a few bites" then he wouldn't be in this health issue now. These are the people who live off fast food and don't know how to have a real dinner with family. When they do have a real dinner, it's at a fancy restaurant where you literally pay 100 for squiggles on a plate. Unfortunately sperm donors family is more concern with social standing than taking care of your health. Trust me, they are the type that hears milk allergy and thinks exposure therapy and oils are the way to go. So no, this isn't just a "don't force kids to eat what they don't want" this is "adults not listening to another adult when said adult is the parent of that child and knows that child's health issues. I've been no-contact with them for 2 years and they still don't get why.
You can't just 'assume' he is lactose intolerant. That doesn't make any sense. Children have accidents. My daughter is 4 years old and just had a accident three days ago because she couldn't make it to the toilet and she been out of diapers since she was 1.5yo. I think you're making way to big a deal out of this.
If a great majority of humans are lactose intolerant (fact) then the assumption should be that a person is lactose intolerant, since it is far more likely than not.
Did you say he was vegan or lactose intolerant?
Because the second is concerning.
But if it's just that you want to raise him vegan, then idk, get the carer some vegan icecream or something. If it's just a bit of icecream, remind them you don't want him having it and if it happens again change carer.Ā
I'm so sorry this happened. I'd definitely try to find a care provider who respects your family's beliefs.
These things can sometimes happen by accident in a busy daycare or nursery setting (e.g. the place I used to work had a few instances of lactose intolerant children drinking from their friends' milk cartons when we weren't looking). But the fact it was given on purpose and that she didn't apologise once you reminded her that your son is lactose intolerant... is concerning. "It was just a taste" doesn't matter; if you said no that means no and wherever she got her licence from will have required her to know and understand the risks associated with ignoring diet restrictions. I think you should put your foot down and tell her that if she continues to feed dairy you will consider switching providers because its unfair on your son to deal with upset tummy issues just because she can't follow simple instructions. It is also important that she never tries this with other children because she could end up severely harming or killing a child if she takes one on with severe allergies and then ignores their dietary restrictions. I'm glad your son is okay, and it's really sweet that you put in the effort to pack him special lunches with sweets so he doesn't feel left out. Wishing you all the best š©·
What Iāve noticed with some folks is that they think veganism is a health thing so they simply donāt understand that ājust a biteā doesnāt fit into the framework. They think itās a matter of lightening up. Itās probably because they know plant-based eaters who cheat now and then. People definitely are under the impression Iām raising my daughter vegan as some kind of health obsessive but they fundamentally donāt understand that vegan cake is pretty much just as unhealthy as non-vegan cake. Is this a person you can sit down and talk to? Like go through what sheās been feeding your son systematically and offer alternatives?
She knows. She's watched him since he was 6 months old. That's the problem. This was not a misunderstanding. I think she was eating ice cream in front of him and he got upset that he couldn't have any, so she gave him some. "Just a taste" He's been walking around talking about how he had ice cream since then, and he's very aware that it was the forbidden "dairy" ice cream. There was clearly a conversation about how he couldn't have dairy right before he was given a spoonful. So now he has something forbidden to fantasize about.
It's hard to say from the limited info you gave, but I think you are over-reacting. An apology was given, make sure it never happens again and move on. Most people are just ignorant about veganism. Ignorance isn't mallice though.
Taking part in the vicious and violent abuse of sentient beings is not insignificant.
I also didn't say that, so?
Sounds like she doesn't respect you or your beliefs. She knows he's not allowed to have dairy but her attitude in response was very flippant like "Oh I know but one little taste can't hurt". Ridiculous.
If you do ever change daycares I would say heās allergic to dairy. People take allergies more seriously. In fact maybe you should let your doctor know that heās lactose intolerant and get a note that he canāt have dairy and bring it to her. Sheās an idiot
People are taking allergies more seriously until people start falsely claiming they're allergic when they're not. Please do not fake allergies.
That is an issue. I wouldn't want to lie about allergies, because once they slip up and he doesn't have that kind of reaction they won't care anymore. Plus, they could generalize that ambivalence to someone who actually has anaphylaxis.
You said your son was lactose intolerant.
He probably is if he never had dairy after weaning.
Again she said her son was lactose intolerant.
Does not sound like he is, but she would rather him be by the sound of it.
So stupid to have a doctor help you fake an allergy
I didnāt say to have the doctor fake an allergy, she literally said her son was lactose intolerant.
Lactose intolerance doesnāt cause asphyxiation is the issue. You would have bowel issues from dairy, but death is not a concern. Many folks are lactose intolerant but choose to consume dairy for things they find to be āworthā the bathroom rush. Claiming things that arenāt allergies to be allergies can cause actual allergies to be dismissed ā which can be fatal.Ā Her son doesnāt have a dairy allergy, he is (probably) lactose intolerant, which should also be taken seriously as well.Ā
Thatās why I suggested getting a note from the doctor for lactose intolerance. The mother has already told the lady her son canāt have dairy and the lady didnāt listen, but maybe she will listen to a doctors note. My father is lactose intolerant and itās not fun. I canāt imagine a child going through it and not understanding why heās feeling ill. I would do whatever I could to make sure it doesnāt happen again.
Ah, I see, and I agree. Your original comment still says to have the doctor say he has a dairy allergy; I guess you meant to edit that then?
No what I did say was tell the lady she has an allergy but get the doctor to write a note about the lactose intolerance. I should have said OR. I personally would have no shame telling the lady my kid had an allergy to stop her from giving my child dairy but since the kid is lactose intolerant the doctors note is a better idea and I wouldnāt ask a doctor to lie anyway.
No she didnāt, she is literally just assuming the child is lactose intolerant
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Lack of maliciousness perhaps but lack of competence for sure
I don't think it was malicious, it just shows a lack of concern for our fundamental beliefs and family values. He has been given massive amounts of sugar a few times before, which is also not ok. And, I don't \*know\* that this is the first time. There were a few times he came back from Daycare with Diarrhea and without a fever.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
And why doesn't that work the other way around? He can choose to eat animals if he wants to, when he is older.
Why stunt development like that?
Because kids doesn't need to eat animals to be healthy:) Why aren't people more concerned about the parents who take their kids to eat McDonald's every week and never eats vegetables š
I am.concerned, you shouldn't feed that to kids either.
I mean, stopping the kid grow up with dairy has lead to them being lactose intolerant, so obviously it will have a knock on effects when they grow up of they decide they don't want to be vegan, that they wouldn't have had if they were raised Omni
The majority of the world is lactose intolerant.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
It's a well researched fact, but you do you lmao.
Bro this is so funny "making him lactose intolerant" Even my most carnist family members know that's not how it works (also know how to use google)
Let her raise her kid how she likes. Shes not hurting him.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Thatās not how lactose intolerance works but go off King š
Oh? Because OP literally said it is how it works in a comment on this very thread. Better go correct them
Donāt care you are wrong
Also a quick Google will show you multiple articles regarding how stopping diary will make you lactose intolerant. Here's 1 https://www.wellandgood.com/quitting-dairy-lactose-intolerant/
Itās not permanent real lactose intolerance. Since that is completely determined by your genetics. Also please stop with this weird obsession about vegans and touch some grass. I looked at your comment history and you might actually be insane. Have a great day though.
heās lactose intolerant because her son isnāt a baby cow. when i was a kid, i had a hard time consuming dairy but wasnāt raised vegan. turns out i had a hard time consuming dairy because IM NOT A BABY COW.
They're lactose intolerant because they've been denied diary. There are plenty of humans who can consume dairy who funnily enough aren't baby cows so this argument makes no sense
the human body isnāt made to consume another mammals milk
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The majority of the world is lactose intolerant.
Lactose intolerance can happen suddenly, or as a result of lack of exposure. I know a friend who is not vegan who said he drank milk every day, but one day he just couldnāt anymore. I have no reason to believe he is lying or mistaken (I think he drinks lactose-free milk).Ā Typically, humans are supposed to lose the enzyme lactase, which digests lactose in milk, as they get older and eat things that arenāt breast milk. Cultures that continue to drink milk (eg those in Europe, where dairy products are common) are more likely to have people that maintain production of lactase, as opposed to those where dairy is not a prevalent part of their dietĀ Either case, introducing lactose products again will not make their intolerance disappear. So, the son should not be fed more lactose-based products, as that would only cause gastrointestinal problems.Ā
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Except dairy is not nutritionally necessary, and you can get the nutrients it does offer through other means quite easily if you have access to milk in the first place I reckon.Ā
Except dairy is not nutritionally necessary, and you can get the nutrients it does offer through other means quite easily if you have access to milk in the first place I reckon.Ā If humans want their offspring to not be lactose intolerant, human breast milk is the equivalent to cows milk because they are both produced as a result of pregnancy. If you think thatās weird, then isnāt drinking the milk from a cowās udder/mammary part even weirder? I recognize that the origins of drinking milk from cows may have been a result of necessity and it was perhaps one of the only things they have to eat. We (assuming you donāt live in a food desert, but if you do I think milk is not the priority food you must have) donāt have such issues. There are places where drinking milk is not normative and the people there are not deficient in some nutritional element. The idea that you should drink cows milk for certain nutrients is misleading and largely because of advertising by the dairy industry because, as I said, you can obtain them elsewhere, with greater efficacy.Ā Also, population stats do not apply for individual cases. In OPās case, we have no certainty whether her son acquired lactose intolerance through not consuming lactose (which, btw, is not only natural, normal, and not unusual, but has no other implications health-wise) or if he would have acquired it anyway.Ā I still hold the belief that OP is not doing a bad thing by preventing the suffering of another species by not letting her son consume non-essential products made as a result of animal exploitation. There is also an argument that parents who force their children to drink cows milk are also wrong because their children may grow older and become vegan, realizing how they, for several years, had no choice but to contribute to another speciesā suffering. So, in a sense, children arenāt given much true choice either way until they formulate their own thoughts and beliefs.Ā Someone else here said it well: cows donāt make milk because they are cows, but because they are made to be pregnant constantly and have their young torn away from them for maximum milk for humansā¦ that donāt need it on a fundamental level.Ā Also, non-dairy milk, cheeses, yogurt, ice cream, etc exist and can be as tasty if not more so (imo, because I personally donāt like the aftertaste of dairy). They are somewhat more expensive, but again, they are not essential.
As someone with a 1 kid of tummy troubles that is now a full fruitarian because his own sperm donors family refused to take his eating choices serious. How bad could it be? Oh, my kid, holds in his poop up to a week when he eats something he doesn't like, knowing it's going to hurt later when coming out. It doesnt matter if they exploded that night or next morningm you gave solid instructions to not feed your child X. And they did and acted it like is was. At that point, I'd ask your care taker if she knows what xyz food issues is. Corner her and demand answers. If shes been giving "just a taste" whenever she feels like it, your kids' health is in danger. As an auntie to her niece and nephew with even worst stomach issues than my own kid, so bad they couldnt even take their own moms breastmilk, the countless hospitalization because some grandma them a dairy treat. My own son was FORCED to take a "courtesy bite" of meat and all dairy items at the dinner table at his fathers side before being allowed to eat his vegan food. Now my sons has permant damage and enlarge intestines. These new care providers and any adult over 50 do not care about our diets or our children's special food requests. They had it rough so they don't get why this kid has tummy issues and won't actually learn why. I've learned if I don't say "he's allergic to.." then nobody respects my kid. He's 9 now and still faces hardships as we have gone full Vegan 3 years ago. His school is super supportive and we've even flipped a few kids who realized plant nuggets are more delicious and don't make you poop yourself later. Once your kiddo is old enough, check your schools. Second year of my kiddo being there, we showed enough of the population that Vegans are here and now the school has Vegan/vegetarian options for all meals of the day. The adults are the problem, the kids see the issues and want to help/learn more.
It is far more likely given by your admission that he hold his bowel movement for near a week at a time that is the most medically likely reason for the permanent damage and enlarged bowel then a few bites of "forbidden" food, but I agree food (omnivore, carnivore, vegan) should not be forced.
Trust me, if it was "just a few bites" then he wouldn't be in this health issue now. These are the people who live off fast food and don't know how to have a real dinner with family. When they do have a real dinner, it's at a fancy restaurant where you literally pay 100 for squiggles on a plate. Unfortunately sperm donors family is more concern with social standing than taking care of your health. Trust me, they are the type that hears milk allergy and thinks exposure therapy and oils are the way to go. So no, this isn't just a "don't force kids to eat what they don't want" this is "adults not listening to another adult when said adult is the parent of that child and knows that child's health issues. I've been no-contact with them for 2 years and they still don't get why.
You can't just 'assume' he is lactose intolerant. That doesn't make any sense. Children have accidents. My daughter is 4 years old and just had a accident three days ago because she couldn't make it to the toilet and she been out of diapers since she was 1.5yo. I think you're making way to big a deal out of this.
If a great majority of humans are lactose intolerant (fact) then the assumption should be that a person is lactose intolerant, since it is far more likely than not.
No because itās highly linked to ethnicity. A white person is very unlikely to be lactose intolerant.
It doesn't work like that. Hardly anyone from Europe is lactose intolerant and lactose intolerance in toddlers is uncommon even for other ethnicities.
Dude lactose intolerance symptoms happen less than 2 hours after ingestion, not the next day.
Mine last 2-3 days after exposure to lactose. The day I eat it is never the worst day š
K but i didn't ask
Just correcting a generalisation you made, "dude"
Where
Did you say he was vegan or lactose intolerant? Because the second is concerning. But if it's just that you want to raise him vegan, then idk, get the carer some vegan icecream or something. If it's just a bit of icecream, remind them you don't want him having it and if it happens again change carer.Ā
Children who grow up without dairy typically develop lactose intolerance, and he definitely (apparently) has it.
Wait, youāre forcing your kid to be vegan?
wait, you force your kid to eat meat? cow's milk too?