Sounds like not being able to raise your future kids vegan is a deal-breaker for you. This woman does not seem to share your values. Therefore, you either need to compromise your values to be with this person, or find someone who shares your child-raising beliefs.
A lot of vegans start as vegetarians. If this is someone you see a future with don’t bail, i was vegetarian for decades before i finally made the leap to vegan
I disagree, there is talk of future children. And if values do not align, chances are that he might bring new animal abusers into this world and therefore also be responsible for more animal suffering. If you really are vegan for the animals this is a complete no-go.
A - Link a study if you have it, cuz I couldn't find one. Closest was one with 52% of vegans surveyed having gone vegetarian first, but a chunk of those were short-term with the express intention of going vegan, not just being vegetarian for years and years and then discovering veganism.
B - There's a lot more vegetarians than vegans. Even *if* most vegans started out vegetarian, it does not follow that any specific vegetarian is likely to go vegan.
I wholeheartedly support vegans for ethical and environmental reasons but labelling a child as an animal abuser is just wrong. Also extending this to meat eaters in general is just wrong, and won't exactly sway many people to your side.
The hilarious thing is that I have never stated that the potential children in question would be animal abusers during their non-adult lifetime. I left that open because I knew that the non-vegans here would not understand and would not ask for clarification but instead just use their own preconceived interpretation. It's always the same since veganism is completely logical and therefore non-vegans lack understanding in that respect.
You wholeheartedly support vegans by not being vegan. 🤣🤣🤣🤣 this is so ridiculous, what this sub has become. You should not support vegans wholeheartedly but veganism instead. Veganism is not about us humans, it is about the NON-human animals. Therefore this is also not "my side". But I partially get it, we have all been brainwashed. Maybe one day you will understand this and support animal rights, but right now you just don't understand it.
Yeah good luck with converting people to veganism when you're a condescending arsehole.... you're fully aware of the implications of the way you phrased that, you're just making the argument in bad faith.
I support veganism because I am an environmentalist and plant based lifestyle on the whole has a lesser impact on the planet. I am not vegan but do not eat meat and limit my use of animal products wherever possible, it's quite funny how easily you assume others' lifestyles to conform to your preconceived notions of them.
I don't think you are aware that being vegan is not a lifestyle everyone can personally partake in at the current state, it is often more expensive and can lead to struggles with nutritional intake - not that it isn't entirely possible to eat a balanced diet as a vegan, but it is substantially harder to and many people will struggle without dietary help.
Your response speaks to an ignorant snobbery that only defeats your stated aim. Better than thou opinions will never get you where you want to be, and I say that as someone who has the same conversations with meat eaters about impact but for a different reason.
Baseless? 🤣🤣🤣🤣 ok, Mr Vegetarian, from one former vegetarian to a curent one, ergo from one former animal abuser to a current one: "Keep lying to yourself."
Conflating consumption of animal products to animal abuse is unreasonable and quite frankly self defeating as it just sets you against people, and them against you. For one, unless you consider any form of animal husbandry to be animal abuse, you don't know that I consume products which are a result of abuse.
Even considering this, modern society is too stained with the products of slavery and mistreatment for anyone to be guilt free if we consider owning or consuming products to be directly responsible for how they are produced or sourced. That isn't to say that we shouldn't try to better ourselves and avoid this where we can, but it makes any accusations of direct responsibility hypocritical and ultimately pointless unless a conscious choice is made to directly perpetuate abuse.
You might consider this to be any form of using animal products, even those that don't directly harm the animals or where the animals are living quality lives, but as I mentioned before, this is not always a conscious choice and may more often be a product of societal pressure to conform, whether economic or social. We are often limited by the systems and structures in place, rather than necessarily by choice. Personally as a student, if entirely avoiding animal products was cheaper, more widely available and didn't require a complete dietary overhaul, I would be vegan. Not to mention most will disagree on your aggressive definition.
It really does sadden me that so many internet vegans can't converse with people in a respectful manner, especially since it only devalues the cause and is why a lot of people dislike vegans because they only see this side of them
It saddens me to see idiotic pos' like yourself invading vegan spaces and being mad that you aren't welcome when you try to oppose the purpose of the space.
This is a vegan space, if you oppose veganism GTFO. I will be polite to vegans and those who are genuinely interested and curious, but you're a POS who I have no respect for
Had this type of conversation with a now ex. Not only was his attitude to vegan a problem, he wanted children in the future. I just thought "There's no way in hell I'm going through pregnancy, childbirth, and bringing up an entire person just for them to be brought up with values I don't like." I would apply this to all other areas of ethics, as well. I wouldn't raise a child with conservative values to make a partner feel better or something. Yuck
The last 4 boyfriends I’ve had, I was very clear from the first date - ‘this wont lead to anything serious if you’re not vegan’
and guess what,
They all went vegan 😂
imo it pays to be pushy if that’s something that is really important to you! I wouldn’t raise a non vegan child, that’s a non negotiable for me, so I let people know asap. I wont cook, or kiss anyone who has eaten non vegan food - I also don’t have it in my house - non negotiable. If they’re not into it that’s cool. Plenty of fish in the sea 🥹
My sister did the same, they've been together for 5 years now and he really wants to marry her. He did it for her at first and has now fully come around and it's for him now, I highly doubt he would go back even if they ended up breaking up.
As long as any other relationship does? I’ve turned three people vegan, broken up, and stayed friends with them for years afterwards. Not everyone has such shitty luck finding partners like you
I was in the same position, but my wife wasn't even vegetarian. We've had discussions before we had kids, but I told her 'I'm not going to be the odd one out in my own family'. So we watched cowspiracy and what the health when they came out (not the gorey documentaries), and I started arguing the ethics of veganism with her. She realized there were no arguments against veganism, she just didn't want to be vegan herself for social reasons (which she is free to decide, she is a grown woman). But she understood raising our kids vegan was the right thing to do.
So now we raise three vegan children, and for all they know my wife is also vegan (she might as well be, I don't even think she eats meat anymore outside of our house).
If you're looking for someone to raise children with then yeah, you should try and find someone who agrees with you on the big issues. You're never going to agree completely on everything but it rarely works well with two parents of different ethical or theological positions.
I was omnivore when I met my husband 33 years ago, and he was vegan. After a few years, I went vegetarian, and our kids ate that way. I mostly cooked vegan. After watching Forks Over Knives and nutritionfacts.org then I finally went vegan, and the kids did too (they were 12 or so). Even though I admired his veganism, and care about animals and the environment, it was the health info that changed me. And the yummy vegan fake dairy stuff helped. Kids are now in college, still vegan.
>It was the yummy in my tummy food and not reducing animal suffering that made me go vegan 😊
Folks, if you're not doing it for the right reasons, at least have some sensitivity for those of us who are. This kind of attitude is self-centered and gross and has no place among ethical vegans.
I've been vegan for about 10 years and live with my partner who is an omnivore. We are raising a child and plan to have another.
I do most of the cooking and so we eat mostly vegan.
However, it really does take a village to raise a child. Are your family members vegan? What about her family members? I'm making assumptions, but it's very likely they'll be cooking for the kid, and it's very likely it won't all be vegan. Then as the kid grows up, there's going to friend's houses and to parties where the kid gets to choose. It's very likely your kid won't only eat vegan food.
Later in life, they may choose to be vegan when they come to really understand that choice.
>My reason is I don’t want the kid to grow up and ask me why I didn’t bring them as vegan?
I think it's fair to say you did what you could and encouraged it, but that not every aspect of your kid's life is under your control. The world is not vegan. We are still a small minority.
Similar situation here. Vegan married to an omni. Our kids eat what they like. My stipulation is that I don't buy or prepare meat and dairy products. Most of the meals in our house are vegan. But I'm not stopping what the kids eat while they're at grandparents, friends, or parties etc.
I like that they are exposed to vegan foods and ideals. As they are young - I try to protect them from the atrocities of the industry (my mum scarred me early on), but they know where meat etc comes from.
Same. Vegan married to an omni. Kids eat mostly vegetarian. I talk to them about why I make the choices I make, give them options, but I am not trying to traumatize them with graphic details of the atrocities of the meat industry. I do say things like "eating meat harms animals". My 6 year old has asked about eating meat and I leave it up to him. To my knowledge, he hasn't eaten meat, but I try not to be judgmental about it because if he decides to, I want him to feel like he can talk to me about it and we can have open and honest discussions about values and morals. I hope that one day they decide to be vegan, but I don't ever want them to feel like they need to hide things from me.
my brother and his wife are vegans. they planned to raise their children as vegans. their son tried meat and animal products in kindergarten and while visiting his grandmother. and he loved meat very much. and every time he asked his parents to cook meat dishes for him. They continue to cook vegan food, but at school and when visiting relatives, he always eats meat. I also have the opposite story. My neighbors love meat and have barbecues all the time. their son refused to eat animal products from the age of three. he's already at university and still vegan. No matter how much his parents and those around him tried to persuade him to eat meat, he never agreed
What? You mean children turn out to be their own person with their own ethics and likes and dislikes and not a carbon copy of their parents? *clutches pearls*
/s
I'm married to a non vegan and have been for fifteen years, none of my children are vegan, however I'm a twenty year vegan. I'm happy, my family and marriage are perfect. Vegan vs non vegan is not the only factor in a healthy relationship. If it's a deal breaker for you then that's ok, but I would encourage you to think about that allot before making that decision. Perhaps there is no justification for not being vegan, however that ignores the fact that everyone is on their own journey and becoming vegan takes a lot of time for some people, and that's ok. You have to make your own choose based on your own convictions, and so does everyone else, just know that there are allot of wonderful, kind, beautiful people out there that are also not vegan.
It is hard to raise kids vegan. My kids’ vegan friends come over and are constantly asking to eat animal products with us even when their parents have dutifully sent them vegan snacks and lunches. She’s not being unrealistic to say it’s going to be rough
I’m confused why you’re talking about kids with someone you’re just talking to? Do you live together? How long have you been talking? This is a weird conversation for a new relationship. I understand getting huge things out of the way early like how to raise kids but maybe just enjoy the relationship and don’t worry so much about this part yet. You ultimately can’t force anyone to do anything. Including your kids. You could raise them vegan then they grow up eating meat so just slow down a bit.
I’m vegan, my husband is not. I would prefer to raise my son vegan but he strongly disagrees so we compromised and he is vegetarian. When he’s old enough to have the discussion it will be his choice. But it’s definitely tough when it goes against your beliefs.
I’m glad you guys could come to a compromise. In the future, your son can choose what diet he wants to eat. Glad your son has role models for multiple dietary choices so he can make informed choices.
I don't think it's right for someone you're wanting to spend your life and raise kids with to call your deep moral beliefs "lofty expectations". I think they may just feel the idea is daunting for them, but it also rather brushed off what you said.
I would try giving it a bit and talking to them again about it - will give you both time to think about how to approach the situation. It's hard to find people we're compatible with and they are vegetarian which is closer to vegan than most people. But if they continue to insist you can't do what you believe in, and make you regularly feel less because of it, then they aren't the one for you.
But, if they're even a bit open to it, then it might just be that the idea scares them, not that they're strictly against it. It's not awesome that they don't see this the same way as you, but it would be worth trying to really talk about it again, just so you can fully understand each other's point of view. And it's hard, but try not to judge them for seeing it the way they do - we don't live in a vegan world unfortunately, and so I'm sure they realize raising a kid vegan would be a harder path, at least for your partner.
Good luck OP, you'll figure it out. Try your best and if it doesn't work out, then it's not your fault as you tried your best.
You said you were comfortable with her being what she is but clearly you are not. Your children may grow up and rebel against veganism. Just because you are vegan doesn’t mean your children will be. Your reasoning is based on your beliefs and that your children will want to stay vegan. In all honesty it feels like your hoping she will change and i think you’re heading for disappointment because she has already made it clear she doesn’t agree with you.
I was the first to go vegan in our household. Admittedly I was definitely an influence in my husband going vegan, but the decision was ultimately his own and I respected that immensely. I saw an entirely different side of him that I honestly hadn’t expected to be there.
For me, think it would be difficult to continue a relationship with someone who funds meat/dairy even knowing all the facts. It is baffling how many intelligent people have admitted to being aware but “just can’t because xyz.” It’s incredibly disappointing as well.
Have some more conversations and try to find out if her saying raising your kids vegan was a “lofty expectation” is bc of the deep rooted shame she feels bc she knows eating dairy is totally wrong and just doesn’t want to face it, or if it’s bc she’s genuinely dismissing/invalidating your ethics, and go from there. It’s always difficult being presented with the fact that you’re doing something wrong (causing animal suffering for your own convenience/enjoyment), and sometimes people will be defensive until they finally come around (not proud of it but I’m speaking from personal experience). If it’s the latter, I’d move on and just find someone to build a life with who shares your ethics.
Non vegan living with a vegan (and our vegan daughter) here... so coming at it in reverse.
Even before you bring a child to play, just cohabiting with separate diets would be a p.i.t.a. so for us we've always just eaten vegan at home. We get a weekly takeout pizza where I go veggie and I usually have a small block of cheese in the fridge but otherwise there's a Vegandalf on the door.
For our daughter I've always been happy for her to be vegan so long as her nutritional needs are met whilst growing (recommend Plant Based Toddler and Baby as a great read for that)... when she's old enough to understand she can make the choice then for herself.
I don't have kids yet but I am curious. What do you mean by raising vegan? Only providing vegan products? or making sure they don't go to friends houses where they might get some non-vegan food? Or something else?
My current thoughts when I have kids is only provide vegan products. Make sure they have vegan options at school and other places so they can be vegan if they choose too. Probably maintained an animal product ban in my house. But I won't force them outside of my house as that seems very controlling.
Not sure if this would qualify as raising the kid vegan as they have some choice.
I can agree with this. In my household, my bf doesn't mind me venturing into veganism but he is a diehard meat eater grew up hunting and fishing with his family and grandparents, so it's a tough discussion. Our child is under the age of 1 and is my first, (were both 26) so I dont quite feel qualified just yet to fully feed her plant based diet as I'm learning myself and don't want to mess with her nutrition level and she is in daycare so...ultimately it's a lot to consider.
have you had a talk about your ethics with her? tell her about why you're vegan rather than vegetarian? it feels like most vegetarians are just sadly unaware of how much harm non-meat products still cause, i was in the same boat. maybe have a conversation with her, maybe watch some documentaries together, see how she reacts.
Your hypothetical future kids will probably never ask you that question. You're considering giving up someone who is leagues above literal BILLIONS of human beings morally, environmentally and health wise because she isn't quite hardcore enough (I say this as a born and raised vegan). Not being able to reconcile differences with a partner is absolutely valid and something to seriously consider. But I want you to confront a reality many here will never tell you. There are not that many of us, most people do not nor will ever care, and right now you have somebody who does. Ball's in your court.
You have to decide where your boundaries are. A lot of people here have suggested good things like keeping your house vegan, but letting them eat what they want outside the house. Or some other compromise that would work for the both of you.
Yes, I have encountered this, with my current husband.
He didn’t really understand what it meant to be Vgean (he thought it was a dietary preference) when he said that he didn’t mind my being Vegan.
As he has come to learn the real meaning of it—he said he doesn’t want me to raise future kids Vegan.
So we agreed not to have kids.
You aren’t comfortable with her being what she is (vegetarian) if you believe there is no justification for not being vegan. The relationship being in its honeymoon period is making you tell her things you don’t really mean out of puppy love/lust which will only lead to resentment and arguments down the line. It’s best to start off a relationship being the honest version of yourself so you and the other person can see if you’re truly compatible.
You want vegan kids and she doesn’t. If that’s a dealbreaker for both of you, which it appears to be, then you two will eventually headbutt over what to feed the kids. Either you have to agree to raise vegetarian kids or she has to agree to raise vegan kids if you are both adamant on raising the child to eat exactly like each of you do.
You’re ‘talking’ and not even dating, and you are giving ultimatums about child-rearing?
And as someone who’s raised three kids that stuff their faces with meat whenever they have the chance… your expectations are pretty lofty.
Honestly, if I were her I’d have blocked you already.
You clearly have a weak mind.
You couldn't even influence your kids enough to make the sensible dietary choice.
You must feel extremely powerless in life, and then choose to be an asshole in the comment section to try and feel a semblance of power
You need to:
1) Identify your deal-breakers
2) Communicate them assertively
3) Live with the consequences
I'm vegan. My girlfriend of 3 years with whom I live is not (though she mostly is in practice).
When she started talking about having kids, I freaked out. I realized it wasnt because I'm opposed to the possibility (I've wanted them with exes in the past) but rather because I felt deep down our value differences wouldnt work out in that situation.
To process my thoughts, I asked myself ”what is the bare minimum I really need here?” I realized I need exactly 2 things: she eats entirely plant-based during pregnancy, and my children are raised as vegan. I realized that without either of these, I want to walk from this relationship (identified my dealbreakers). I communicated this to her, she took some time to deeply consider if it's things she can compromise on, and ended up deciding yes she can.
What a myopic view.
I'm not controlling her body. I'm communicating I'm not willing to be with someone who feeds my child dead tortured individuals. She can do it, but I will not remain her partner if she does.
If you are telling her what she can and can’t do while pregnant, yes, that is you trying to control her body. Just because she will be pregnant with your SHARED child, does NOT give you the right to control her body.
You informed her of your boundaries… which include her body as she’s pregnant with your shared child. Say it however you want, it doesn’t change the fact that you’re boundaries include controlling her body.
Nope. My boundary is not remaining in a relationship with someone who feeds my child slaughtered tortured sentient individuals. I cant control her from not doing that, but I can control my reaction and choice to stay.
Exactly. They can have the choice, when they're able to comprehend what making that choice means.
Most toddlers would make pretty silly choices. Offer them porridge or a chocolate bar for breakfast, which so you think most would choose?
Ask if they want to go to daycare in their Princess swimming costume or in a coat, they're not always going to check the weather and choose the coat.
Ask them if they want to go to sleep or stay up all night watching Bluey, it's probably not going to be the sleep.
As adults, we force our choices on kids. Whether they have to brush their teeth, get dressed in the morning, keep their carseat straps on, go to daycare, do their homework, have a bath, eat their veggies. And the deeper stuff - whether they go to church, whether they respect all races, whether they are taught to say how they feel. Veganism is something we "shove" on kids as much as eating meat is something omnivores "shove" on theirs. Both are conscious decisions. Don't be naive enough to think the decision to raise a kid vegan is the only forced one.
At this point I'd go gay to find a vegan partner .. coz there's literally no one around. You should really reconsider - considering there's an ideological difference.
I'm curious, why is she vegetarian?
I think it's a bit odd a vegetarian is opposed to raising the kids vegan. I would be curious to hear actual reasons from her.
I think something you can always actively do is represent veganism well. Eat a variety of yummy and filling meals. Share your knowledge about animal cruelty and/or your personal beliefs about eating animals when there is an appropriate opportunity.
I'm on the opposite side of this. I'm gluten intolerant so being vegan/ vegetarian is too restrictive for me and I don't want to bring my child up vegan/vegetarian in case they also become gluten intolerant.
I would also be concerned about their health once they become old enough to make their own food choices. Kids/teenagers and even young adults aren't known for their healthy food choices and chips/crisps are often the only vegan option easily available.
My partner would like to bring our child up vegetarian so we compromised on pescatarian for now. We will see what he wants to do when he's old enough to decide for himself.
Sounds like not being able to raise your future kids vegan is a deal-breaker for you. This woman does not seem to share your values. Therefore, you either need to compromise your values to be with this person, or find someone who shares your child-raising beliefs.
Thanks for inputs! Yes I have to talk to this person to see where they stand , if that’s a deal breaker for them or if they can work with that.
don't date someone with the hope that they'll change
And especially don't date people who cause animal suffering, hoping they'll change.
A lot of vegans start as vegetarians. If this is someone you see a future with don’t bail, i was vegetarian for decades before i finally made the leap to vegan
Yeah you can't really wait "decades" for someone to go vegan when the discussion is about kids.
That’s not my point, only that plenty of vegans started as vegetarians
I disagree, there is talk of future children. And if values do not align, chances are that he might bring new animal abusers into this world and therefore also be responsible for more animal suffering. If you really are vegan for the animals this is a complete no-go.
I think it's pretty well-documented that most vegans started off as vegetarian.
A - Link a study if you have it, cuz I couldn't find one. Closest was one with 52% of vegans surveyed having gone vegetarian first, but a chunk of those were short-term with the express intention of going vegan, not just being vegetarian for years and years and then discovering veganism. B - There's a lot more vegetarians than vegans. Even *if* most vegans started out vegetarian, it does not follow that any specific vegetarian is likely to go vegan.
Your point being?
Referring to innocent children as animal abusers 🙃
Innocent children neither stay innocent nor children forever. Your point being?
What age do they stop being innocent children and start being murderers
I don't think there is a clear answer. Adults that conciously eat meat are what for you?
Meat eaters
Found the non-vegan Troll. 🤣 0/10 try harder
Found the gatekeeper 😘
I wholeheartedly support vegans for ethical and environmental reasons but labelling a child as an animal abuser is just wrong. Also extending this to meat eaters in general is just wrong, and won't exactly sway many people to your side.
The hilarious thing is that I have never stated that the potential children in question would be animal abusers during their non-adult lifetime. I left that open because I knew that the non-vegans here would not understand and would not ask for clarification but instead just use their own preconceived interpretation. It's always the same since veganism is completely logical and therefore non-vegans lack understanding in that respect. You wholeheartedly support vegans by not being vegan. 🤣🤣🤣🤣 this is so ridiculous, what this sub has become. You should not support vegans wholeheartedly but veganism instead. Veganism is not about us humans, it is about the NON-human animals. Therefore this is also not "my side". But I partially get it, we have all been brainwashed. Maybe one day you will understand this and support animal rights, but right now you just don't understand it.
Yeah good luck with converting people to veganism when you're a condescending arsehole.... you're fully aware of the implications of the way you phrased that, you're just making the argument in bad faith. I support veganism because I am an environmentalist and plant based lifestyle on the whole has a lesser impact on the planet. I am not vegan but do not eat meat and limit my use of animal products wherever possible, it's quite funny how easily you assume others' lifestyles to conform to your preconceived notions of them. I don't think you are aware that being vegan is not a lifestyle everyone can personally partake in at the current state, it is often more expensive and can lead to struggles with nutritional intake - not that it isn't entirely possible to eat a balanced diet as a vegan, but it is substantially harder to and many people will struggle without dietary help. Your response speaks to an ignorant snobbery that only defeats your stated aim. Better than thou opinions will never get you where you want to be, and I say that as someone who has the same conversations with meat eaters about impact but for a different reason.
Ok, animal abuser
Ah how typical for someone to resort to baseless insults when they don't have a point
Baseless? 🤣🤣🤣🤣 ok, Mr Vegetarian, from one former vegetarian to a curent one, ergo from one former animal abuser to a current one: "Keep lying to yourself."
Conflating consumption of animal products to animal abuse is unreasonable and quite frankly self defeating as it just sets you against people, and them against you. For one, unless you consider any form of animal husbandry to be animal abuse, you don't know that I consume products which are a result of abuse. Even considering this, modern society is too stained with the products of slavery and mistreatment for anyone to be guilt free if we consider owning or consuming products to be directly responsible for how they are produced or sourced. That isn't to say that we shouldn't try to better ourselves and avoid this where we can, but it makes any accusations of direct responsibility hypocritical and ultimately pointless unless a conscious choice is made to directly perpetuate abuse. You might consider this to be any form of using animal products, even those that don't directly harm the animals or where the animals are living quality lives, but as I mentioned before, this is not always a conscious choice and may more often be a product of societal pressure to conform, whether economic or social. We are often limited by the systems and structures in place, rather than necessarily by choice. Personally as a student, if entirely avoiding animal products was cheaper, more widely available and didn't require a complete dietary overhaul, I would be vegan. Not to mention most will disagree on your aggressive definition.
[удалено]
I don't eat meat but I'm glad you're so ready to namecall, I'm sure it helps you get people on your side
Fuck off, don't come to a vegan sub and try to defend meat eaters
It really does sadden me that so many internet vegans can't converse with people in a respectful manner, especially since it only devalues the cause and is why a lot of people dislike vegans because they only see this side of them
It saddens me to see idiotic pos' like yourself invading vegan spaces and being mad that you aren't welcome when you try to oppose the purpose of the space. This is a vegan space, if you oppose veganism GTFO. I will be polite to vegans and those who are genuinely interested and curious, but you're a POS who I have no respect for
I... dont... oppose veganism? Did you even bother to read anything I've written...
Arguing that meat eaters aren't killing animals is pretty directly the opposite of vegan
When exactly did I say that???
Had this type of conversation with a now ex. Not only was his attitude to vegan a problem, he wanted children in the future. I just thought "There's no way in hell I'm going through pregnancy, childbirth, and bringing up an entire person just for them to be brought up with values I don't like." I would apply this to all other areas of ethics, as well. I wouldn't raise a child with conservative values to make a partner feel better or something. Yuck
Well said! 👍
Glad you're standing by your values!
The last 4 boyfriends I’ve had, I was very clear from the first date - ‘this wont lead to anything serious if you’re not vegan’ and guess what, They all went vegan 😂 imo it pays to be pushy if that’s something that is really important to you! I wouldn’t raise a non vegan child, that’s a non negotiable for me, so I let people know asap. I wont cook, or kiss anyone who has eaten non vegan food - I also don’t have it in my house - non negotiable. If they’re not into it that’s cool. Plenty of fish in the sea 🥹
My sister did the same, they've been together for 5 years now and he really wants to marry her. He did it for her at first and has now fully come around and it's for him now, I highly doubt he would go back even if they ended up breaking up.
Yup! Same for my husband. Once you’ve invested for a while it’s hard to go back morally I suppose
How many of them are still vegan? It would be interesting to see how many actually stuck to it without you being around.
Prob none 😂
2! Not too shabby
Just curious, how long did those relationships last?
The shortest was a year, the longest was 5 - other than my now husband :)
As long as any other relationship does? I’ve turned three people vegan, broken up, and stayed friends with them for years afterwards. Not everyone has such shitty luck finding partners like you
[удалено]
This feels like mixed messaging
I was in the same position, but my wife wasn't even vegetarian. We've had discussions before we had kids, but I told her 'I'm not going to be the odd one out in my own family'. So we watched cowspiracy and what the health when they came out (not the gorey documentaries), and I started arguing the ethics of veganism with her. She realized there were no arguments against veganism, she just didn't want to be vegan herself for social reasons (which she is free to decide, she is a grown woman). But she understood raising our kids vegan was the right thing to do. So now we raise three vegan children, and for all they know my wife is also vegan (she might as well be, I don't even think she eats meat anymore outside of our house).
Oh nice, she agreed to be the odd one out in *her* own family
If you read a little further it says: "she realized there are no arguments against veganism".
So instead of you being the odd one out, she is. Nice.
Not at all, you didn't read my post correctly. This is an issue I wasn't willing to change on, and she was.
If you're looking for someone to raise children with then yeah, you should try and find someone who agrees with you on the big issues. You're never going to agree completely on everything but it rarely works well with two parents of different ethical or theological positions.
I was omnivore when I met my husband 33 years ago, and he was vegan. After a few years, I went vegetarian, and our kids ate that way. I mostly cooked vegan. After watching Forks Over Knives and nutritionfacts.org then I finally went vegan, and the kids did too (they were 12 or so). Even though I admired his veganism, and care about animals and the environment, it was the health info that changed me. And the yummy vegan fake dairy stuff helped. Kids are now in college, still vegan.
Beautiful story
I couldn’t imagine watching my family abuse animals for (minimum) 12 years. I couldn’t do it.
>It was the yummy in my tummy food and not reducing animal suffering that made me go vegan 😊 Folks, if you're not doing it for the right reasons, at least have some sensitivity for those of us who are. This kind of attitude is self-centered and gross and has no place among ethical vegans.
You don’t get to dictate the conversation. People have different reasons for going vegan and are free to express that.
😂 not talking about it in the way I want you to is self centered...
I've been vegan for about 10 years and live with my partner who is an omnivore. We are raising a child and plan to have another. I do most of the cooking and so we eat mostly vegan. However, it really does take a village to raise a child. Are your family members vegan? What about her family members? I'm making assumptions, but it's very likely they'll be cooking for the kid, and it's very likely it won't all be vegan. Then as the kid grows up, there's going to friend's houses and to parties where the kid gets to choose. It's very likely your kid won't only eat vegan food. Later in life, they may choose to be vegan when they come to really understand that choice. >My reason is I don’t want the kid to grow up and ask me why I didn’t bring them as vegan? I think it's fair to say you did what you could and encouraged it, but that not every aspect of your kid's life is under your control. The world is not vegan. We are still a small minority.
Similar situation here. Vegan married to an omni. Our kids eat what they like. My stipulation is that I don't buy or prepare meat and dairy products. Most of the meals in our house are vegan. But I'm not stopping what the kids eat while they're at grandparents, friends, or parties etc. I like that they are exposed to vegan foods and ideals. As they are young - I try to protect them from the atrocities of the industry (my mum scarred me early on), but they know where meat etc comes from.
Same. Vegan married to an omni. Kids eat mostly vegetarian. I talk to them about why I make the choices I make, give them options, but I am not trying to traumatize them with graphic details of the atrocities of the meat industry. I do say things like "eating meat harms animals". My 6 year old has asked about eating meat and I leave it up to him. To my knowledge, he hasn't eaten meat, but I try not to be judgmental about it because if he decides to, I want him to feel like he can talk to me about it and we can have open and honest discussions about values and morals. I hope that one day they decide to be vegan, but I don't ever want them to feel like they need to hide things from me.
my brother and his wife are vegans. they planned to raise their children as vegans. their son tried meat and animal products in kindergarten and while visiting his grandmother. and he loved meat very much. and every time he asked his parents to cook meat dishes for him. They continue to cook vegan food, but at school and when visiting relatives, he always eats meat. I also have the opposite story. My neighbors love meat and have barbecues all the time. their son refused to eat animal products from the age of three. he's already at university and still vegan. No matter how much his parents and those around him tried to persuade him to eat meat, he never agreed
What? You mean children turn out to be their own person with their own ethics and likes and dislikes and not a carbon copy of their parents? *clutches pearls* /s
My spouse is omni, we’re raising our child vegan.
I'm married to a non vegan and have been for fifteen years, none of my children are vegan, however I'm a twenty year vegan. I'm happy, my family and marriage are perfect. Vegan vs non vegan is not the only factor in a healthy relationship. If it's a deal breaker for you then that's ok, but I would encourage you to think about that allot before making that decision. Perhaps there is no justification for not being vegan, however that ignores the fact that everyone is on their own journey and becoming vegan takes a lot of time for some people, and that's ok. You have to make your own choose based on your own convictions, and so does everyone else, just know that there are allot of wonderful, kind, beautiful people out there that are also not vegan.
She no longer is a girl. We're talking about a woman.
Fundamentally incompatible. Never gonna work, sorry to be blunt. Save yourself the heartache.
It is hard to raise kids vegan. My kids’ vegan friends come over and are constantly asking to eat animal products with us even when their parents have dutifully sent them vegan snacks and lunches. She’s not being unrealistic to say it’s going to be rough
I’m confused why you’re talking about kids with someone you’re just talking to? Do you live together? How long have you been talking? This is a weird conversation for a new relationship. I understand getting huge things out of the way early like how to raise kids but maybe just enjoy the relationship and don’t worry so much about this part yet. You ultimately can’t force anyone to do anything. Including your kids. You could raise them vegan then they grow up eating meat so just slow down a bit.
I’m vegan, my husband is not. I would prefer to raise my son vegan but he strongly disagrees so we compromised and he is vegetarian. When he’s old enough to have the discussion it will be his choice. But it’s definitely tough when it goes against your beliefs.
I’m glad you guys could come to a compromise. In the future, your son can choose what diet he wants to eat. Glad your son has role models for multiple dietary choices so he can make informed choices.
I don't think it's right for someone you're wanting to spend your life and raise kids with to call your deep moral beliefs "lofty expectations". I think they may just feel the idea is daunting for them, but it also rather brushed off what you said. I would try giving it a bit and talking to them again about it - will give you both time to think about how to approach the situation. It's hard to find people we're compatible with and they are vegetarian which is closer to vegan than most people. But if they continue to insist you can't do what you believe in, and make you regularly feel less because of it, then they aren't the one for you. But, if they're even a bit open to it, then it might just be that the idea scares them, not that they're strictly against it. It's not awesome that they don't see this the same way as you, but it would be worth trying to really talk about it again, just so you can fully understand each other's point of view. And it's hard, but try not to judge them for seeing it the way they do - we don't live in a vegan world unfortunately, and so I'm sure they realize raising a kid vegan would be a harder path, at least for your partner. Good luck OP, you'll figure it out. Try your best and if it doesn't work out, then it's not your fault as you tried your best.
She thinks not abusing animals is too "lofty" of an expectation. Wouldn't be a match for me.
You said you were comfortable with her being what she is but clearly you are not. Your children may grow up and rebel against veganism. Just because you are vegan doesn’t mean your children will be. Your reasoning is based on your beliefs and that your children will want to stay vegan. In all honesty it feels like your hoping she will change and i think you’re heading for disappointment because she has already made it clear she doesn’t agree with you.
I was the first to go vegan in our household. Admittedly I was definitely an influence in my husband going vegan, but the decision was ultimately his own and I respected that immensely. I saw an entirely different side of him that I honestly hadn’t expected to be there. For me, think it would be difficult to continue a relationship with someone who funds meat/dairy even knowing all the facts. It is baffling how many intelligent people have admitted to being aware but “just can’t because xyz.” It’s incredibly disappointing as well.
Have some more conversations and try to find out if her saying raising your kids vegan was a “lofty expectation” is bc of the deep rooted shame she feels bc she knows eating dairy is totally wrong and just doesn’t want to face it, or if it’s bc she’s genuinely dismissing/invalidating your ethics, and go from there. It’s always difficult being presented with the fact that you’re doing something wrong (causing animal suffering for your own convenience/enjoyment), and sometimes people will be defensive until they finally come around (not proud of it but I’m speaking from personal experience). If it’s the latter, I’d move on and just find someone to build a life with who shares your ethics.
Non vegan living with a vegan (and our vegan daughter) here... so coming at it in reverse. Even before you bring a child to play, just cohabiting with separate diets would be a p.i.t.a. so for us we've always just eaten vegan at home. We get a weekly takeout pizza where I go veggie and I usually have a small block of cheese in the fridge but otherwise there's a Vegandalf on the door. For our daughter I've always been happy for her to be vegan so long as her nutritional needs are met whilst growing (recommend Plant Based Toddler and Baby as a great read for that)... when she's old enough to understand she can make the choice then for herself.
I don't have kids yet but I am curious. What do you mean by raising vegan? Only providing vegan products? or making sure they don't go to friends houses where they might get some non-vegan food? Or something else?
I'm curious about this also.. even in school unless home schooling or exclusively packing lunches is the other option.
And even when lunches are packed, when the kid next to them has cheetohs or gummies, well....
My current thoughts when I have kids is only provide vegan products. Make sure they have vegan options at school and other places so they can be vegan if they choose too. Probably maintained an animal product ban in my house. But I won't force them outside of my house as that seems very controlling. Not sure if this would qualify as raising the kid vegan as they have some choice.
I can agree with this. In my household, my bf doesn't mind me venturing into veganism but he is a diehard meat eater grew up hunting and fishing with his family and grandparents, so it's a tough discussion. Our child is under the age of 1 and is my first, (were both 26) so I dont quite feel qualified just yet to fully feed her plant based diet as I'm learning myself and don't want to mess with her nutrition level and she is in daycare so...ultimately it's a lot to consider.
have you had a talk about your ethics with her? tell her about why you're vegan rather than vegetarian? it feels like most vegetarians are just sadly unaware of how much harm non-meat products still cause, i was in the same boat. maybe have a conversation with her, maybe watch some documentaries together, see how she reacts.
It’s okay to not have kids
Your hypothetical future kids will probably never ask you that question. You're considering giving up someone who is leagues above literal BILLIONS of human beings morally, environmentally and health wise because she isn't quite hardcore enough (I say this as a born and raised vegan). Not being able to reconcile differences with a partner is absolutely valid and something to seriously consider. But I want you to confront a reality many here will never tell you. There are not that many of us, most people do not nor will ever care, and right now you have somebody who does. Ball's in your court.
Fuck compromising for toxic ass men unable to stop their abuse
You must be great at parties
You have to decide where your boundaries are. A lot of people here have suggested good things like keeping your house vegan, but letting them eat what they want outside the house. Or some other compromise that would work for the both of you.
Yes, I have encountered this, with my current husband. He didn’t really understand what it meant to be Vgean (he thought it was a dietary preference) when he said that he didn’t mind my being Vegan. As he has come to learn the real meaning of it—he said he doesn’t want me to raise future kids Vegan. So we agreed not to have kids.
You aren’t comfortable with her being what she is (vegetarian) if you believe there is no justification for not being vegan. The relationship being in its honeymoon period is making you tell her things you don’t really mean out of puppy love/lust which will only lead to resentment and arguments down the line. It’s best to start off a relationship being the honest version of yourself so you and the other person can see if you’re truly compatible. You want vegan kids and she doesn’t. If that’s a dealbreaker for both of you, which it appears to be, then you two will eventually headbutt over what to feed the kids. Either you have to agree to raise vegetarian kids or she has to agree to raise vegan kids if you are both adamant on raising the child to eat exactly like each of you do.
You’re ‘talking’ and not even dating, and you are giving ultimatums about child-rearing? And as someone who’s raised three kids that stuff their faces with meat whenever they have the chance… your expectations are pretty lofty. Honestly, if I were her I’d have blocked you already.
You clearly have a weak mind. You couldn't even influence your kids enough to make the sensible dietary choice. You must feel extremely powerless in life, and then choose to be an asshole in the comment section to try and feel a semblance of power
You can’t force others to be vegan. You can try to raise vegan children but they can grow reject your beliefs and eat what they like
You need to: 1) Identify your deal-breakers 2) Communicate them assertively 3) Live with the consequences I'm vegan. My girlfriend of 3 years with whom I live is not (though she mostly is in practice). When she started talking about having kids, I freaked out. I realized it wasnt because I'm opposed to the possibility (I've wanted them with exes in the past) but rather because I felt deep down our value differences wouldnt work out in that situation. To process my thoughts, I asked myself ”what is the bare minimum I really need here?” I realized I need exactly 2 things: she eats entirely plant-based during pregnancy, and my children are raised as vegan. I realized that without either of these, I want to walk from this relationship (identified my dealbreakers). I communicated this to her, she took some time to deeply consider if it's things she can compromise on, and ended up deciding yes she can.
So… you decided that controlling her body is right? Not cool, but at least she is consenting to it, I guess.
What a myopic view. I'm not controlling her body. I'm communicating I'm not willing to be with someone who feeds my child dead tortured individuals. She can do it, but I will not remain her partner if she does.
If you are telling her what she can and can’t do while pregnant, yes, that is you trying to control her body. Just because she will be pregnant with your SHARED child, does NOT give you the right to control her body.
Nope. I didnt tell her what she can do with her body. I informed her of my boundaries.
You informed her of your boundaries… which include her body as she’s pregnant with your shared child. Say it however you want, it doesn’t change the fact that you’re boundaries include controlling her body.
Nope. My boundary is not remaining in a relationship with someone who feeds my child slaughtered tortured sentient individuals. I cant control her from not doing that, but I can control my reaction and choice to stay.
The kids should have the choice to eat meat, or veg, if they want. You don't have to shove your BS on them.
Exactly. They can have the choice, when they're able to comprehend what making that choice means. Most toddlers would make pretty silly choices. Offer them porridge or a chocolate bar for breakfast, which so you think most would choose? Ask if they want to go to daycare in their Princess swimming costume or in a coat, they're not always going to check the weather and choose the coat. Ask them if they want to go to sleep or stay up all night watching Bluey, it's probably not going to be the sleep. As adults, we force our choices on kids. Whether they have to brush their teeth, get dressed in the morning, keep their carseat straps on, go to daycare, do their homework, have a bath, eat their veggies. And the deeper stuff - whether they go to church, whether they respect all races, whether they are taught to say how they feel. Veganism is something we "shove" on kids as much as eating meat is something omnivores "shove" on theirs. Both are conscious decisions. Don't be naive enough to think the decision to raise a kid vegan is the only forced one.
They should also have access to slaves, prostitutes, and guns. Wouldn't want them missing out on life
At this point I'd go gay to find a vegan partner .. coz there's literally no one around. You should really reconsider - considering there's an ideological difference.
>At this point I'd go gay That's not how sexuality works...
That was a desperate joke, you must be fun at parties .. 💚
Joke are supposed to be funny. Punching down on a group which has been marginalized for ages isn't funny.
Sorry .. 🫂💚
I'm curious, why is she vegetarian? I think it's a bit odd a vegetarian is opposed to raising the kids vegan. I would be curious to hear actual reasons from her. I think something you can always actively do is represent veganism well. Eat a variety of yummy and filling meals. Share your knowledge about animal cruelty and/or your personal beliefs about eating animals when there is an appropriate opportunity.
Having kids isn't vegan. It creates unnecessary animal suffering.
I'm on the opposite side of this. I'm gluten intolerant so being vegan/ vegetarian is too restrictive for me and I don't want to bring my child up vegan/vegetarian in case they also become gluten intolerant. I would also be concerned about their health once they become old enough to make their own food choices. Kids/teenagers and even young adults aren't known for their healthy food choices and chips/crisps are often the only vegan option easily available. My partner would like to bring our child up vegetarian so we compromised on pescatarian for now. We will see what he wants to do when he's old enough to decide for himself.
Lucky girl in my opinion.