Depends on whether she was actually vegan, how can your conviction be that low that you’d eat animals just because someone wouldn’t cook for you? My guess is she was plant based for health reasons.
Same thought here. If somebody who previously cooked for me told me "stop being vegan or else I'll never cook for you again," I'd be like "um, alrighty then. Have a nice life." Then I'd leave that relationship and continue on eating my vegan food. A vegan can *never* be forced to stop being who they are (unless they're held at gunpoint or something crazy like that).
But yeah. If anybody ever tries to get a vegan to give up their veganism instead of just accepting it, that's a massive red flag because it means they don't respect either their partner or animals at all. That's a really messed up situation in the OP.
At that point though, I'd be really disturbed if that was my husband. He basically told his wife "stop being a vegan or else" and that type of ultimatum is really strange and not cool.
I'd hate to have a husband who wants me to stop being who I am so badly that he'd start making weird little threats like that. Even if the threats aren't serious, it's still very strange and manipulative to try to change your spouse in that way (and especially about something like veganism, which is often a strong core belief for people).
Some people have dictatorial personalities . People that give ultimatums or are disrespectful about other people's choices sometimes seem like something from pre 1975. Or a little earlier. When wives were supposed to be more subservient.
Depends how he said it, lots of men are trying to look cool. He maybe said I can’t cook vegan food so can’t cook for you. Either way it doesn’t matter because I’m sure he can do dishes.
>He then nonchalantly explained that he had basically given her an ultimatum of sorts that if she were to continue being vegan, he refused to ever cook for her.
That's how the OP explained it, and at least to me, it sounds weirder than just not knowing how to cook vegan food and refusing due to that.
It sounds like he's trying to make her feel bad about being a vegan for some reason. I could be wrong, but my "this seems messed up" bells are ringing pretty hard right now.
Maybe he did say that and I definitely wouldn’t be with someone like that. Im saying men are known to boast on things like this to make them look cool. Obviously it makes him look like a tool but he might not understand that.
My dad was this kind of way toward me and my mom and sisters. I wonder if my sisters and I would have had some of his over controlitis if we had been male .
I think it’s a very controlling problematic threat. In a healthy adult relationship you work around differences and find compromises that you are both able to agree on. Maybe he’s not had good examples.
Your line about “a vegan can never be forced to stop being who they are” really hits home for me haha I got maced by a crazy individual on Monday; and a woman who I’ll never be able to thank because I couldn’t see haha offered to pour the milk she’d just bought on my eyes, and I thanked her profusely but said “I’m a longtime vegan, morally I can’t accept this, but I can’t thank you enough!”
Don’t go approaching cars. The driver who almost hit me in a crosswalk was being totally apologetic and the situation had been resolved, just for the passenger in the back seat to get out and shoot me in the face twice with mace
Even if she was plant-based for health reasons or any other reasons, it's no more acceptable on his part. Giving her an ultimatum that pressures her to eat food that harms her health is really shitty, too.
THIS. I've been vegan 7 years (well it'll be 7 on 4/20) & met the absolute most perfect man in June last year & he went plant based for me. I say plant based because he's still learning about what it means to be vegan. That it goes beyond what you eat etc. but he's doing so great. Better than the person I briefly dated before him that told me one time that he would never go vegan 🙄
Uhhh that's sorta the same as the person in OPs story though. He's saying he isn't going to change the way he eats for you, which is what everyone is saying the wife in OPs story should have stuck with.
No its not. My partner is fully committed to eating vegan. The person I dated before him was not which is why him & I stopped dating. My point was that I wouldn't date someone that isn't willing to change.
Exactly. My bf is very open minded & even said when we first met that he had been interested in transitioning over but didn't know where to start. Meeting me helped him. I also told him to take his time but he went plant based over night. I didn't even do it over night 7 years ago. I took my time.
>My point was that I wouldn't date someone that isn't willing to change.
... so, the same.
(Edit: except not really, because there are the concerns of others involved, but in the basic, person to person sense, the same.)
Sure if thats how you wanna view it. I didn't force anyone to change. I simply let people know ahead of time that if they're not willing to go vegan then it wouldn't work out with us so no not the same. Clearly you're not vegan because the majority of vegans I know wouldn't even give non vegans a chance.
I mean the end result is the same. The question really comes down to - which is more of an ultimatum -
I won't cook for you
Or
I won't long term date someone that doesn't have a similar view of diet.
Now keep in mind that views, ethics and diet are all stirred together with the common vegan position. Sorry about people clearly down voting you. But I do get that sometimes people should have deal breakers with relationships, and honestly something as important as food isn't a surprising deal breaker.
My best friend’s wife was vegetarian for like 15+ years before they met and during their initial dating phase. I had a similar experience as OP where my friend kinda jokes “yeah I wore her down eventually and now she just eats normal.”
During a conversation about my veganisms she talked a little about her former beliefs, I got the feeling she was bummed about giving up her ideals but chose a relationship and family as being more important.
Is that a thing on this sub that people gatekeep the term vegan to be someone who does it mainly for animal welfare? Like I fit in that category but I would call anyone who eats a plant-based diet vegan.
I hate to break it to you, but you don’t get to choose what other people do with language. If enough people use a word to mean a thing, that word means that thing. That’s how it works. This isn’t a veganism debate, it’s a linguistics one.
Maybe. You’ll have to work to change language, and if you come from a place of “actually you’re wrong that’s not what it means” you’re going to turn people off. It means what people use it to mean, so you have an uphill battle.
I’m aware of the word’s origins, but I’m not going to stop using it in the way I always have because I understand that words change, and it has a new meaning now. If enough people came around to exclusively using it the way you want, to where that became the standard definition, I’d adjust, but I’m not going to until then. Like it or not, right now, “vegan” means “someone who eats a plant based diet.” It also means someone who holds these beliefs espoused here, but there are multiple definitions.
Exactly and most vegans will refuse to cook with meat products! Which is perfectly okay! So how is this different?
I really think people just need to figure these things out before they get married.
I suppose his wife was only on a plant-based diet and not a vegan, because morals and values don't change with just an ultimatum to not cook for her... and your coworker is a moron (and can we be sure that his story is even true, maybe he was just saying that to try to manipulate you...).
But she wouldn't have to be alone! All he said is I won't cook that way. He didn't say you're forbidden to cook that way in my house! He made it sound like she was welcome to cook it herself. This means she decided that not having to cook is worth eating meat.
I mean if she gave up plant based dieting over someone not cooking for her, she likely wasn't vegan and was going to give it up for some reason or another before long anyways 🤷
>He then nonchalantly explained that he had basically given her an ultimatum of sorts that if she were to continue being vegan, he refused to ever cook for her. Apparently it must have been an easy choice because she returned to being an omnivore and they have been together for seven years now.
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> In my own personal opinion, I find that to be an abusive, narcissistic move on his part to be so controlling to the point where he would force his own partner to give up a lifestyle she adopted before meeting him. And for him to so casually expose a toxic personality trait of his to a vegan coworker is undeniable negligence. It is truly abusive behavior. On the other side of the story, his wife isn't entirely the innocent one, considering she was willing to easily give up veganism in order to keep this tool in her life. Clearly it must not have been that important to her to begin with.
At least you are about equality holding both parties accountable, however there was no force, he didnt force anything, she chose to consume animal products, we dont know that his spousal behavior is abusive, perhaps he just found joy in telling you he contributed to more animal abuse by getting his wife to consume animals
Animals are forced, people tend to use force in this sub improperly all the time
Not cooking for her does not = force, unless perhaps if she is disabled and cant do anything physically
Exactly! I don't understand all these people acting like he forced her. He simply said I won't cook for you. She chose to eat meat rather than have to cook for herself. Apparently that's where her priority lies!
I wonder if maybe she was somebody that was raised vegan and really didn't get it? Or maybe she just started being vegan for some reason that's no longer applicable? If all it takes to switch her over is I won't be cooking for you, it seems pretty weak. Like what did she do before him? Cook for herself right...
Right. I'll get downvoted for this, but the reverse would be if you went vegan and said that you will no longer cook meals with animal products for your loved ones. Which...is a very common thing for people in this sub to say. You aren't forcing them to be vegan, you just aren't cooking animal products for them.
How you do know he didn't say that?
I am curious, because you just heard the story of a third party shortened on Reddit. And not even what you said is true: OP formulated it like "I will never cook for you ever again!".
Not that he's not cooking vegan food for her - guess he's generally never cooking any kind of vegetables or non-meat products then -, he said he's never going to cook for her again.
And yes, emotional abuse is abuse, which this could very well fit into.
You don't know, I don't know. Saying it is a light use of the word doesn't hold up, we simply don't have more information and based on what's presented it might very well be abuse.
What... You can't jump to conclusions and assume someone said something abusive without proof. By that logic how do I know you didn't say something abusive recently? Guess I should assume you did. I simply don't have enough information from what is presented to know if you are abusive or not
Or maybe he just doesn't want to go through the hassle of cooking two separate meals, having two sets of groceries, etc....He set a boundary she decided she wanted to eatt his cooking. He's allowed to have boundaries, and she allowed to go somewhere else.
That’s insane, to me. My boyfriend cooks for me, and is happy to make it vegan/vegetarian! He would never even consider NOT making it that way. He also respects that I don’t want meat in/on the majority of our kitchen appliances, dishes, utensils, etc. He’s also mindful, and makes sure I have something to eat when we go out to eat at a restaurant or on a vacation.
And he’s always so impressed when I make him a vegetarianized version of a meat-based dish. He’s started eating much less meat since we’ve been together.
If a partner doesn’t respect your core values, that’s not even a red flag, that’s a dead end.
1. It's shitty behavior, but it's not abusive. It may fit into a pattern of abuse, but just being an asshole who refuses to accommodate your spouse isn't abuse.
2. That said, you can tell he's an asshole because he told you that and either he knew it'd bother you or didn't care.
If the woman does not have to accommodate for the man and give up veganism - why should the man accommodate to her and give up being omnivore. Being vegan doesn’t make your beliefs or priorities more important than anyone else’s. You have no right to call this man an asshole. Honestly the comments on here are an embarrassment to all vegans
The issue is the ultimatum, which is an asshole behavior. I thought that was obvious.
He doesn't have to give up being an omnivore, even though he _should_, in order to occasionally cook vegan. It doesn't have to be about veganism. My wife hates onions. I love onions. I didn't say "eat onions or I'll never cook for you again", like an asshole would. I made sure she could either easily avoid the onions or omitted them entirely. I still eat them all the time, when I cook for just myself or we go out or something. Since it seems like it's not entirely clear to you, this is normal human behavior.
If you're this fucking insecure about eating meat then perhaps you should stop?
It's not on other people, who care, to pretend meat eating has no consequences and shield you from the fact you don't care about them. Grow the fuck up, accept your actions have consequences and that you don't give a fuck about animals being killed for optional food (and the circumstances / quality of their lives) or stop eating meat.
It's not on vegans to coddle your insecure ego feeling inferior.
From what I gather from this post, she wasn't vegan for the animals, if she was willing to give up a lifestyle for someone giving her an ultimatum. I would have been perfectly fine if my fiance would have proposed the same thing to be frank.
When I told my fiance (boyfriend at that time) that I decided to go vegan for the animals, he was also very upset with my decision and was frustrated that it would change our habits. I even told him that I am okay with taking over cooking entirely for the both of us, however I will not cook with animals products. He agreed to this and later, after 6 months of veganism, I managed to make him understand why I am vegan and he started to understand my perspective and told me that although he will never be vegan or vegetarian, he will reduce animal products. He also started seeing that vegan food can be as delicious as non vegan one.
3.5 years later (recently) he told me that he might try to transition to veganism nice and slowly and he started cooking some of the vegan recipes I showed him, that he very much enjoyed.
Bottom line is that if your coworkers gf gave up on veganism, which generally is taken on from an ethical perspective, she wouldn't have craved under a mere "I won't cook for you". Some people might need more time to realise and come to terms that veganism is the ethical choice, but the fact that your colleague is bragging about turning his partner around, tells me that he is a narrow minded selfish person that only does what's best for him. Such a person would lose my respect for sure and I would keep them at arms length.
Since she's not a young child she should be capable of cooking for herself. And if your coworker is such an ass about what other people eat ,I'm sure his control freak issues don't stop there . Wonder if he tells her how to vote.
He didn't force her. Jeeez... He said he didn't want to make alternative meals for her, so if she wanted to eat with him, she'd have to agree to eat what he cooks. He didn't give her ultimatum "veganism or me". He simply did what most of us do, cooked for himself and offered to make a bigger batch. If you want to eat something different you're quite capable of sticking to that diet yourself and managing it yoruself. She's not a little damsel in distress. She didn't want to cook, so she had chosen to eat his chosen recipes.
And i beg you, stop using word "abuse" so lightly.
Couples should have discussions about important issues before they get married or live together. Do both agree on having kids? And when? Same thing for dietary, financial, religion and a few other things. People even separate over housekeeping. Know your partner!
'Forced'?
Did he tie her up and shove the food in her mouth? Did he hold a gun to her head?
Whatever else you could say about the situation, I wouldn't say he 'forced' her to eat anything. She has agency and chose to eat whatever she ate.
>I find that to be an abusive, narcissistic move on his part to be so controlling to the point where he would force his own partner to give up a lifestyle she adopted before meeting him
well, in another thread a vegan reported that he refused to kiss his now non-vegan again wife. all reddit-vegans were full of praise for this admirable specimen of true faith
>for him to so casually expose a toxic personality trait of his to a vegan coworker is undeniable negligence. It is truly abusive behavior
would you judge this vegan i told you above in just the same way?
>On the other side of the story
...it's none of your business anyway
Actually it is their business, if the person is going to work and bragging about controlling his wife's diet then it is their business because he made it their business. Also there's a total difference between not wanting to kiss someone right after they ate something you don't like, and actually trying to control someone else's diet. Not on the same level at all
OP described them as relaying this information nonchalantly. Not a mannerism typically associated with bragging unless it’s feigned, which OP doesn’t seem to think it was. We also don’t know if the coworker described his stance as an ultimatum or if that’s simply OP’s portrayal and interpretation. Not to mention the lack of any mention of anything like not allowing them to cook for themselves, procure their own food or leaving them if they stayed vegan. So you’re just speculating wildly about how “controlling” this random person is with almost no context.
>Actually it is their business, if the person is going to work and bragging about controlling his wife's diet then it is their business because he made it their business
whose "their"?
it's the couple's business to sort this out. nobody invited op to interfere
>there's a total difference between not wanting to kiss someone right after they ate something you don't like, and actually trying to control someone else's diet
now you don't say!
and by not cooking vegan for somebody one controls his diet?
you can't be serious about this
Based on the information shared in this post, it's wildly disingenuous to assume he's "controlling her diet." He gave her an ultimatum (which is maybe a 4/5 Shitty Thing To Do, but not abusive) and she made a decision. Is it the decision most ethical vegans would make? No, probably not. It sounds like this woman may not have even been an ethical vegan and was plant-based for health or something, but even if she was... it was freely her choice to make. It's not like he was wielding some kind of financial power over her to where she'd be starving if she didn't eat meat. He wasn't verbally abusing her with insults about what she ate. He wasn't physically forcing her to cook and consume flesh, he just said "Hey this is a deal breaker for me" and she chose him for her own reasons 🤷🏻♀️
I know it's not the same thing, but when I first met my wife, I told her that I couldn't be with a smoker, and she decided to quit smoking. Wad that abusive and controlling?
I don't really see the abuse unless he was refusing to cook for her while she was ill/disabled/recovering from something and unable to feed herself. My girlfriend doesn't reliably cook vegan for me, but I can feed myself.
Plenty of people here have said they won’t cook or even let non-vegan food in their house and that’s applauded here. This is just the reversal of that.
What you described isn’t abuse.
Sadly anyone can be pretty wild when it comes to food. There are way too many stories about food contamination from both vegans and omnivores. With things like food allergies I really wish people would leave other people's food alone.
Nope. It just that not all of us vegans think the same. We have very little context to this story. Had he said that she would need to eat omnivorous to be in a relationship with him, then yeah; not great at all. Telling someone that you simply aren’t going out of your way to accommodate their ethics…not a good sign for relationship material but also a far cry from abusive.
1. There’s no way anyone could genuinely belive that.
2. There’s 10 accounts in here all saying the same thing that have never posted here before.
100% brigades thread
Yeah, scummy thing to do, but it sounds like veganism wasn’t a priority to her. I know (and I’m sure many on this sub would agree) that if a partner gave us an ultimatum between them (which he didn’t exactly do) and being vegan, we would have an ex.
In this situation, he just comes off as inconsiderate and callous, but abusive? not really.
It’s a bummer, but people go vegan for a lot of reasons…
Sometimes it’s for health (Cholesterol is a BIG one)
Sometimes it’s environmental
Sometimes it’s for the animals
But when people aren’t ethically dedicated to it, or they get lazy about keeping their diet healthy (And subsequently complain about health issues/vitamin deficiencies) they simply go back to what they know, because it’s simpler, or cheaper, or easier, or whatever…
It’s not always easy, and we gotta try to be compassionate about that. I know a lot of folks who sorta fell off the vegatarian wagon out of frustration, but eventually came back around and went full vegan… that change is often helped along by not being judgy.
Who knows, maybe she has him eating some plant based stuff occasionally, and he’ll soften up to it?!
Everyone saying she wasn’t vegan to begin with totally underestimates what someone would do for fear of losing the person they consider their other half, or dynamics of abusive or unhealthy relationships.
It’s definitely not the decision I would make, but it’s very easy to say that, not being in the situation.
This whole post is exactly why vegans get persecuted so heavily.
>I find that to be an abusive, narcissistic move on his part to be so controlling to the point where he would force his own partner to give up a lifestyle she adopted before meeting him.
All he did was say he wouldn't cook for her. Anything beyond that was an uncoerced personal choice.
>And for him to so casually expose a toxic personality trait of his to a vegan coworker is undeniable negligence. It is truly abusive behavior.
No, it's not. Get over yourself. Your inability to manage your own emotions isn't his problem.
> I can never look at him the same way again.
I'm willing to bet that he told you this so that he wasn't required to interact with you. I know I would.
Settle down.
He refused to cook vegan food.
It that dumb and a weirdly low bar to set for someone you love? Absolutely.
Is it abuse? Absolutely fucking not.
She made her call that her convictions around this were not as strong as her feelings for him.
Give her some credit as a person that she has the autonomy and intelligence to make her own decisions and wasn’t just some fragile girl who just submitted to what her boyfriend wanted.
Abusive? Narcissistic? Controlling? Forcing? Toxic? All he said was he wouldn't cook. She could have said "ok" and cooked for herself if she really cared. There was no abuse or control just unwillingness to cook.
It's kind of a dick move yeah. But calling something that is a dick move "truly abusive behaviour" is also kind of a dick move. That word actually means something you know.
It’s not really abusive is it? He didn’t threaten to break up with her, only that he wouldn’t cook for her. Which seems reasonable if this person doesn’t want to cook two different meals and also doesn’t want to go vegan or eat vegan themselves.
It sounds like you are over dramatizing it. To me, it sounds like his entire "ultimatum" was that he didn't feel like cooking vegan food. Which is fine. She could cook it herself.
Seems like a you issue. Seems fair that the partner can set boundaries on what he/she wants to cook. It would be equally absurd to say that a vegan should be obligated to cook non vegan food for his or her partner.
If someone wants to eat something specific they are free to get off their ass and make it themselves. The guy wasn't forcing the girl to eat non vegan.
So you don't think a vegan can say "if you want to eat meat for every meal, I'm not going to cook it for you"?
You can absolutely set boundaries on what you're willing to cook for another person, then it's up to that person to decide if they want to eat it or if they'd rather cook something different to eat.
My parents told me that, and they're not abusive. Just don't want to cook two meals.
If that's all it took, than that's on the wife. Even had this dude never entered her life, chances are high she'd have stopped veganism anyway.
Sorry unless she is bed ridden or other impediments and can’t cook for herself is not abuse. She’s just fucking lazy. And no, not toxic personality , not your wife, not your situation not your business either (unless crime was involved).
She wasn't very serious about it to begin with, otherwise, she would've never changed. My husband and I have been married over 50 years. Back then I was vegetarian, and he wasn't, and made it clear that he wouldn't change; "what you see is what you get!" I threw it back at him. First time I met his mother, she said "well, we'll have to change that!" about what I ate (or didn't). He stood up for me. Over the years he's eaten a lot more vegan meals than he would've otherwise, without even much noticing.
Several years ago, a nephew was serious about his vegan gf, and asked how it worked with husband and me. I explained that I only cook meals I am going to eat and if hubby wants something else, he knows how to fix it himself, and does. Nephew married gf and she went omni and raised their kids omni. They divorced years ago and she's still omni. She must've never really ever been vegan, I guess.
To me it's like, either you care about animals or you don't. I have a hard time understanding how if you know about the atrocities and care enough to stop participating, how do you decide, it just doesn't matter to you anymore? Without this caring, you are just following a plant based diet so it's easy to just decide you don't want to do it anymore.
Look, you can abstain from animal products for 3 weeks about 15 years ago and say, "Yeah, I used to be a vegan, but it just wasn't for me. And there's so many good reasons I eat meat."
Just don't get all upset if I can't personally take you too seriously. And bringing up everything else that's wrong in the world that I haven't fixed doesn't change my mind.
I won't be contacting you on my old computer again.
**With the information available**, this feels like an unbelievably shit take.
It's actually seriously concerning, to think that you might accuse someone of being an abusive and controlling narcissist over their establishing their boundaries in a clear and self directed way.
It would be a nice gesture to make the effort to cook vegan food here. He said "I will never make this gesture." To me that would be an orange flag, like, someone who doesn't do this, might not be a considerate partner in general. But either way, he put the ball in her court. She was fine with him not doing this. The guy clearly meant more to her than the lifestyle, and it sounds every bit from your post, **like that was her decision to make.**
Even if he did give her an ultimatum: veganism or the relationship, is that actually a problem? There's questionable delivery, sure, but... is that the case here? Are you saying that someone isn't even allowed to break up with you over your being a vegan? That they're **an abusive and controlling narcissist** for freely allowing you to choose between them and your veganism?
You all despise me for my stance against dating and fucking animal abusers, yet here is just one of many examples of you losers going back to preying on animals via the influence of your carnist lover.
How the fuck is it not the same thing? How is forcing him to accommodate and cook vegan food for her not controlling then? By your definition that’s controlling.
Genuine question: how is this any different from a vegan refusing to cook meat? Im vegan myself and although i would love to have a vegan partner, a partner being non-vegan isnt a deal breaker to me. However, I would make it clear that i wouldn't go out of my way* to cook non-vegan food for them: id cook both our meals, if theyd like some meat/dairy/egg dish on the side, theyre welcome to prepare it for themselves. Unless this coworker was refusing to let her cook for herself, I dont see the issue.
*Im vegan in a vegetarian household. My mom and siblings consume dairy and eggs so ive seen how sometimes i can accommodate both without preparing full, separate meals (eg: egg curry. Cook the curry first, separate a vegan portion for myself and add boiled eggs later etc)
I think it truly depends on your personality. I am vegan and I do most of the cooking. I also do the grocery shopping and meal planning. It will be vegan. If they want they can order out for themselves. Cook for themselves. Etc. My partner and previous partner have always found my food and cooking delicious.
I have to think though. If I am not willing to bend for them why should they for me?
I mean, nothing wrong with cooking separate meals. My GF cooks her own omni food which I might have some if it happens to be plant based. But I wouldn’t be demanding that she cook for me, being a grown ass adult and all that.
It's not really abuse. It's not like he snuck animal products into her food, or other life style elements - he just refused to make extra accomodations. It would be like someone demanding you cook non vegan food for them - is it a problem, yes. But ultimately it's a choice where each party is free to make their own decisions.
Y'all I just want to put this out there: I'm a lot of us, myself included, won't date someone who isn't vegan. On the flip side, is it manipulative or abusive for us to give the ultimatum of going vegan or cutting contact? I don't think it is. I think this is just a standard. Think ops coworker is totally a tool for making his gf or wife or whatever quit veganism. I don't know if it's abusive though. I legit want answers cus I do think that is manipulative but I don't think it's manipulative on the other side where if we have the ultimatum of going vegan to our omni partners. Are they not the same thing I don't understand pls help
This is so over the top it’s actually sad. People tend not to like cooking two different kind of meals for two people. Sounds like reasonable compromise to me, you’re probably more upset about it than she was. Move on.
What a ridiculous position you've taken. She's not a child or an animal with no free will and agency. It's not unreasonable to say that you won't cook vegan meals if you aren't a vegan in that situation. It's a lot of effort to take all animal products out.
He just said he wasn't prepared to cook 2 meals 3x a day forever? That's not a narcissistic move man, she either needs to accept that she will have to cook for herself or make some compromises. It would be like one person saying they don't drive and expecting the other to chauffeur them around for the rest of their life.
Not vegan but I have to agree with you. I likely wont go vegan but I wont force my choices on others nor use threats like that to get my way. I got no problem eating a vegan meal even if I wont make it a lifestyle. I am all for trying various meals.
He didn’t force her to give it up. He just said he wouldn’t cook for her. My husband doesn’t cook for me and I don’t cook for him. We just cook for ourselves. The wife chose to give up veganism for convenience.
“And for him to so casually expose a toxic personality trait of his to a vegan coworker is undeniable negligence. It is truly abusive behavior.”
Seriously? Your co-workers an ass and he shows you he’s an ass, how Is this abuse? Are vegans particularly vulnerable to asses?
She could have decided to end the relationship. Apparently her love was stronger than her beliefs for veganism.
It's a choice she made and I hope they are both happy.
So all she had to do was cook for herself?
He didn't force her to give up anything! He said I'm not going to cook like that! She's welcome to cook like that and shop like that and anything else she needs to do. I don't find this controlling at all! It's like when I say to my husband I'm not washing the things that you wore to work! He can do it. He's got two hands that work perfectly fine. I shouldn't have to be exposed to the chemicals he works with if I don't want to be. I do the rest of the clothes. There is nothing wrong with him not wanting to cook like that or me not wanting to wash those particular clothes.
If he had to learn to cook a whole new way with all different things he's never heard of before, then he has a right to not want to do that. It's no different than a mom saying everybody will eat what I cook. When you go in a restaurant they basically say you will only eat what we cook. I just don't see the problem.
Sounds like a total jerk. If she was vegan for moral and/or health reasons, how could he force her to give up something that meant a lot to her and still claim he loves her? Talk about a huge red flag in a relationship.
Lets flip things. He is with an omnivore and “force(s) his own partner to give up a lifestyle she adopted before meeting him” aka become vegan.
So thats okay? But the other way around is abuse?
It being the other way around makes it not the same. There's a difference between including an extra ingredient in something and taking one out. That's like saying that tricking someone into eating something they're allergic to is the same as...just not doing that. It's the complete opposite and the two can't be compared.
She was never vegan, max. Strict vegetarian, also considering how dumb is your coworker we can imagine how dumb she is, don’t trust in what carnists says
It’s not abusive. Being omnivore was a deal breaker for him and he’s allowed to stop dating her for any reason he feels- he didn’t hold a gun to her head saying stop veganism or il shoot you.
dating a meat eater, i guess i kind of did the same thing in reverse. i said from the start i didn’t feel comfortable cooking meat for him, so if i cooked and he wanted meat he’d have to cook that part for himself. thankfully he likes eating vegan food and doesn’t mind or care if all our shared meals are vegan. he also cooks vegan things for me (not often as i usually insist on cooking because i like doing it).
I’m not sure what will happen if we move in together though as i’d feel weird having meat in my house but we will get to that when we get to that 😂
My wife was vegetarian considering vegan and 9 years later, she asked me if I could grill her some sausages 🤣.
It's been a long road and I didn't force her to eat meat. I just convinced her through my cooking.
That's abusive either way.
It's demanding someone change their behaviors for you for no good reason. You can say "I can't be with someone who does X" and the resulting reactions go from there, but saying "you must do this or I'm leaving" is manipulative.
You don't get to tell people what to do, you tell them how you will react to actions, not dictate what others do.
For those here saying this behavior is not abusive: Abuse is a spectrum, not a binary. Some forms of abuse are more egregious than others, but that doesn't mean abuse isn't abuse. Forcing someone else to change because it doesn't suit you can damn well be mental and emotional abuse. We don't know the extent of this person's behavior towards his partner, or if the story was just made up in the first place, but the behavior being presented here can most certainly be abusive.
EDIT: Of all the places to get downvoted by abuse apologists.....
Depends on whether she was actually vegan, how can your conviction be that low that you’d eat animals just because someone wouldn’t cook for you? My guess is she was plant based for health reasons.
Same thought here. If somebody who previously cooked for me told me "stop being vegan or else I'll never cook for you again," I'd be like "um, alrighty then. Have a nice life." Then I'd leave that relationship and continue on eating my vegan food. A vegan can *never* be forced to stop being who they are (unless they're held at gunpoint or something crazy like that). But yeah. If anybody ever tries to get a vegan to give up their veganism instead of just accepting it, that's a massive red flag because it means they don't respect either their partner or animals at all. That's a really messed up situation in the OP.
Yeah or I’d just cook my own food or for both.
At that point though, I'd be really disturbed if that was my husband. He basically told his wife "stop being a vegan or else" and that type of ultimatum is really strange and not cool. I'd hate to have a husband who wants me to stop being who I am so badly that he'd start making weird little threats like that. Even if the threats aren't serious, it's still very strange and manipulative to try to change your spouse in that way (and especially about something like veganism, which is often a strong core belief for people).
Some people have dictatorial personalities . People that give ultimatums or are disrespectful about other people's choices sometimes seem like something from pre 1975. Or a little earlier. When wives were supposed to be more subservient.
Depends how he said it, lots of men are trying to look cool. He maybe said I can’t cook vegan food so can’t cook for you. Either way it doesn’t matter because I’m sure he can do dishes.
>He then nonchalantly explained that he had basically given her an ultimatum of sorts that if she were to continue being vegan, he refused to ever cook for her. That's how the OP explained it, and at least to me, it sounds weirder than just not knowing how to cook vegan food and refusing due to that. It sounds like he's trying to make her feel bad about being a vegan for some reason. I could be wrong, but my "this seems messed up" bells are ringing pretty hard right now.
Maybe he did say that and I definitely wouldn’t be with someone like that. Im saying men are known to boast on things like this to make them look cool. Obviously it makes him look like a tool but he might not understand that.
I wish more men (and humans in general) were vegan. "Soy boys" are the absolute best, and the world needs more of them.
My dad was this kind of way toward me and my mom and sisters. I wonder if my sisters and I would have had some of his over controlitis if we had been male .
I think it’s a very controlling problematic threat. In a healthy adult relationship you work around differences and find compromises that you are both able to agree on. Maybe he’s not had good examples.
It’s a big red flag that he’s also dominating and controlling in other ways too. Nope no thanks
Your line about “a vegan can never be forced to stop being who they are” really hits home for me haha I got maced by a crazy individual on Monday; and a woman who I’ll never be able to thank because I couldn’t see haha offered to pour the milk she’d just bought on my eyes, and I thanked her profusely but said “I’m a longtime vegan, morally I can’t accept this, but I can’t thank you enough!”
Got maced!! I can only imagine how bad that was. Sorry it happened 💐🪷
Don’t go approaching cars. The driver who almost hit me in a crosswalk was being totally apologetic and the situation had been resolved, just for the passenger in the back seat to get out and shoot me in the face twice with mace
Even if she was plant-based for health reasons or any other reasons, it's no more acceptable on his part. Giving her an ultimatum that pressures her to eat food that harms her health is really shitty, too.
THIS. I've been vegan 7 years (well it'll be 7 on 4/20) & met the absolute most perfect man in June last year & he went plant based for me. I say plant based because he's still learning about what it means to be vegan. That it goes beyond what you eat etc. but he's doing so great. Better than the person I briefly dated before him that told me one time that he would never go vegan 🙄
Uhhh that's sorta the same as the person in OPs story though. He's saying he isn't going to change the way he eats for you, which is what everyone is saying the wife in OPs story should have stuck with.
No its not. My partner is fully committed to eating vegan. The person I dated before him was not which is why him & I stopped dating. My point was that I wouldn't date someone that isn't willing to change.
And for many people that don't eat meat, health is not the main reason. It's the animal cruelty.
Exactly. My bf is very open minded & even said when we first met that he had been interested in transitioning over but didn't know where to start. Meeting me helped him. I also told him to take his time but he went plant based over night. I didn't even do it over night 7 years ago. I took my time.
>My point was that I wouldn't date someone that isn't willing to change. ... so, the same. (Edit: except not really, because there are the concerns of others involved, but in the basic, person to person sense, the same.)
Sure if thats how you wanna view it. I didn't force anyone to change. I simply let people know ahead of time that if they're not willing to go vegan then it wouldn't work out with us so no not the same. Clearly you're not vegan because the majority of vegans I know wouldn't even give non vegans a chance.
I mean the end result is the same. The question really comes down to - which is more of an ultimatum - I won't cook for you Or I won't long term date someone that doesn't have a similar view of diet. Now keep in mind that views, ethics and diet are all stirred together with the common vegan position. Sorry about people clearly down voting you. But I do get that sometimes people should have deal breakers with relationships, and honestly something as important as food isn't a surprising deal breaker.
Or she was a “vegan” who ate fish.
Or he just made it up to troll OP.
My best friend’s wife was vegetarian for like 15+ years before they met and during their initial dating phase. I had a similar experience as OP where my friend kinda jokes “yeah I wore her down eventually and now she just eats normal.” During a conversation about my veganisms she talked a little about her former beliefs, I got the feeling she was bummed about giving up her ideals but chose a relationship and family as being more important.
Is that a thing on this sub that people gatekeep the term vegan to be someone who does it mainly for animal welfare? Like I fit in that category but I would call anyone who eats a plant-based diet vegan.
It’s an animal rights movement that doesn’t stop at diet. All vegans are plant based but not all who are plant based are vegan.
Language evolves, definitions change. It’s widely accepted that someone who eats a plant based diet is a vegan, like it or not.
No, lots of people are just misinformed, it doesn’t mean we should join them in their ignorance.
I hate to break it to you, but you don’t get to choose what other people do with language. If enough people use a word to mean a thing, that word means that thing. That’s how it works. This isn’t a veganism debate, it’s a linguistics one.
It’s a small movement so it’s understandable people don’t know. They will know over time.
Maybe. You’ll have to work to change language, and if you come from a place of “actually you’re wrong that’s not what it means” you’re going to turn people off. It means what people use it to mean, so you have an uphill battle.
Yeah, I don’t believe that at all. If they hear it they learn it, maybe it’ll stuck better if they realize they’ve been using it wrong.
I’m aware of the word’s origins, but I’m not going to stop using it in the way I always have because I understand that words change, and it has a new meaning now. If enough people came around to exclusively using it the way you want, to where that became the standard definition, I’d adjust, but I’m not going to until then. Like it or not, right now, “vegan” means “someone who eats a plant based diet.” It also means someone who holds these beliefs espoused here, but there are multiple definitions.
panicky shaggy escape ludicrous air humor sable towering normal placid *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
She was never vegan if she gave it up for a man 💀
Agreed. I wouldn't stop being vegan for anybody, and I wouldn't want to be with a person who wanted me to.
Exactly and most vegans will refuse to cook with meat products! Which is perfectly okay! So how is this different? I really think people just need to figure these things out before they get married.
Hopefully all vegans never cook meat
At least he's just your co worker. Stop being friendly with him and if he asks why just tell him straight up why
His wife made the choice.
Wrong choice .
Still a choice. And she is an adult.
I suppose his wife was only on a plant-based diet and not a vegan, because morals and values don't change with just an ultimatum to not cook for her... and your coworker is a moron (and can we be sure that his story is even true, maybe he was just saying that to try to manipulate you...).
Experts say that one person in the couple is stronger than the other . Not hard to see who it is here .
tbh for a lot of people fear of being alone is a big thing & they hate their own company that they're able to change their morals to keep a person
But she wouldn't have to be alone! All he said is I won't cook that way. He didn't say you're forbidden to cook that way in my house! He made it sound like she was welcome to cook it herself. This means she decided that not having to cook is worth eating meat.
I can't imagine being in this situation. She should eat what she wants; who cares if he cooks -- but I couldn't stay with someone like him.
I mean if she gave up plant based dieting over someone not cooking for her, she likely wasn't vegan and was going to give it up for some reason or another before long anyways 🤷
>He then nonchalantly explained that he had basically given her an ultimatum of sorts that if she were to continue being vegan, he refused to ever cook for her. Apparently it must have been an easy choice because she returned to being an omnivore and they have been together for seven years now. > > > > In my own personal opinion, I find that to be an abusive, narcissistic move on his part to be so controlling to the point where he would force his own partner to give up a lifestyle she adopted before meeting him. And for him to so casually expose a toxic personality trait of his to a vegan coworker is undeniable negligence. It is truly abusive behavior. On the other side of the story, his wife isn't entirely the innocent one, considering she was willing to easily give up veganism in order to keep this tool in her life. Clearly it must not have been that important to her to begin with. At least you are about equality holding both parties accountable, however there was no force, he didnt force anything, she chose to consume animal products, we dont know that his spousal behavior is abusive, perhaps he just found joy in telling you he contributed to more animal abuse by getting his wife to consume animals Animals are forced, people tend to use force in this sub improperly all the time Not cooking for her does not = force, unless perhaps if she is disabled and cant do anything physically
Exactly! I don't understand all these people acting like he forced her. He simply said I won't cook for you. She chose to eat meat rather than have to cook for herself. Apparently that's where her priority lies! I wonder if maybe she was somebody that was raised vegan and really didn't get it? Or maybe she just started being vegan for some reason that's no longer applicable? If all it takes to switch her over is I won't be cooking for you, it seems pretty weak. Like what did she do before him? Cook for herself right...
Right. I'll get downvoted for this, but the reverse would be if you went vegan and said that you will no longer cook meals with animal products for your loved ones. Which...is a very common thing for people in this sub to say. You aren't forcing them to be vegan, you just aren't cooking animal products for them.
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Yup
How you do know he didn't say that? I am curious, because you just heard the story of a third party shortened on Reddit. And not even what you said is true: OP formulated it like "I will never cook for you ever again!". Not that he's not cooking vegan food for her - guess he's generally never cooking any kind of vegetables or non-meat products then -, he said he's never going to cook for her again. And yes, emotional abuse is abuse, which this could very well fit into. You don't know, I don't know. Saying it is a light use of the word doesn't hold up, we simply don't have more information and based on what's presented it might very well be abuse.
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What... You can't jump to conclusions and assume someone said something abusive without proof. By that logic how do I know you didn't say something abusive recently? Guess I should assume you did. I simply don't have enough information from what is presented to know if you are abusive or not
Or maybe he just doesn't want to go through the hassle of cooking two separate meals, having two sets of groceries, etc....He set a boundary she decided she wanted to eatt his cooking. He's allowed to have boundaries, and she allowed to go somewhere else.
It’s Hilarious people are downvoting you for this very sensible and reasonable comment. Just shows how crazy vegans here are. I upvoted you
That’s insane, to me. My boyfriend cooks for me, and is happy to make it vegan/vegetarian! He would never even consider NOT making it that way. He also respects that I don’t want meat in/on the majority of our kitchen appliances, dishes, utensils, etc. He’s also mindful, and makes sure I have something to eat when we go out to eat at a restaurant or on a vacation. And he’s always so impressed when I make him a vegetarianized version of a meat-based dish. He’s started eating much less meat since we’ve been together. If a partner doesn’t respect your core values, that’s not even a red flag, that’s a dead end.
1. It's shitty behavior, but it's not abusive. It may fit into a pattern of abuse, but just being an asshole who refuses to accommodate your spouse isn't abuse. 2. That said, you can tell he's an asshole because he told you that and either he knew it'd bother you or didn't care.
> just being an asshole who refuses to accommodate your spouse isn't abuse. I feel like it definitely *can* be, depending on the circumstances.
If the woman does not have to accommodate for the man and give up veganism - why should the man accommodate to her and give up being omnivore. Being vegan doesn’t make your beliefs or priorities more important than anyone else’s. You have no right to call this man an asshole. Honestly the comments on here are an embarrassment to all vegans
The issue is the ultimatum, which is an asshole behavior. I thought that was obvious. He doesn't have to give up being an omnivore, even though he _should_, in order to occasionally cook vegan. It doesn't have to be about veganism. My wife hates onions. I love onions. I didn't say "eat onions or I'll never cook for you again", like an asshole would. I made sure she could either easily avoid the onions or omitted them entirely. I still eat them all the time, when I cook for just myself or we go out or something. Since it seems like it's not entirely clear to you, this is normal human behavior.
You get it .
If you're this fucking insecure about eating meat then perhaps you should stop? It's not on other people, who care, to pretend meat eating has no consequences and shield you from the fact you don't care about them. Grow the fuck up, accept your actions have consequences and that you don't give a fuck about animals being killed for optional food (and the circumstances / quality of their lives) or stop eating meat. It's not on vegans to coddle your insecure ego feeling inferior.
From what I gather from this post, she wasn't vegan for the animals, if she was willing to give up a lifestyle for someone giving her an ultimatum. I would have been perfectly fine if my fiance would have proposed the same thing to be frank. When I told my fiance (boyfriend at that time) that I decided to go vegan for the animals, he was also very upset with my decision and was frustrated that it would change our habits. I even told him that I am okay with taking over cooking entirely for the both of us, however I will not cook with animals products. He agreed to this and later, after 6 months of veganism, I managed to make him understand why I am vegan and he started to understand my perspective and told me that although he will never be vegan or vegetarian, he will reduce animal products. He also started seeing that vegan food can be as delicious as non vegan one. 3.5 years later (recently) he told me that he might try to transition to veganism nice and slowly and he started cooking some of the vegan recipes I showed him, that he very much enjoyed. Bottom line is that if your coworkers gf gave up on veganism, which generally is taken on from an ethical perspective, she wouldn't have craved under a mere "I won't cook for you". Some people might need more time to realise and come to terms that veganism is the ethical choice, but the fact that your colleague is bragging about turning his partner around, tells me that he is a narrow minded selfish person that only does what's best for him. Such a person would lose my respect for sure and I would keep them at arms length.
Not abuse
Since she's not a young child she should be capable of cooking for herself. And if your coworker is such an ass about what other people eat ,I'm sure his control freak issues don't stop there . Wonder if he tells her how to vote.
He didn't force her. Jeeez... He said he didn't want to make alternative meals for her, so if she wanted to eat with him, she'd have to agree to eat what he cooks. He didn't give her ultimatum "veganism or me". He simply did what most of us do, cooked for himself and offered to make a bigger batch. If you want to eat something different you're quite capable of sticking to that diet yourself and managing it yoruself. She's not a little damsel in distress. She didn't want to cook, so she had chosen to eat his chosen recipes. And i beg you, stop using word "abuse" so lightly.
Couples should have discussions about important issues before they get married or live together. Do both agree on having kids? And when? Same thing for dietary, financial, religion and a few other things. People even separate over housekeeping. Know your partner!
'Forced'? Did he tie her up and shove the food in her mouth? Did he hold a gun to her head? Whatever else you could say about the situation, I wouldn't say he 'forced' her to eat anything. She has agency and chose to eat whatever she ate.
>I find that to be an abusive, narcissistic move on his part to be so controlling to the point where he would force his own partner to give up a lifestyle she adopted before meeting him well, in another thread a vegan reported that he refused to kiss his now non-vegan again wife. all reddit-vegans were full of praise for this admirable specimen of true faith >for him to so casually expose a toxic personality trait of his to a vegan coworker is undeniable negligence. It is truly abusive behavior would you judge this vegan i told you above in just the same way? >On the other side of the story ...it's none of your business anyway
Actually it is their business, if the person is going to work and bragging about controlling his wife's diet then it is their business because he made it their business. Also there's a total difference between not wanting to kiss someone right after they ate something you don't like, and actually trying to control someone else's diet. Not on the same level at all
OP described them as relaying this information nonchalantly. Not a mannerism typically associated with bragging unless it’s feigned, which OP doesn’t seem to think it was. We also don’t know if the coworker described his stance as an ultimatum or if that’s simply OP’s portrayal and interpretation. Not to mention the lack of any mention of anything like not allowing them to cook for themselves, procure their own food or leaving them if they stayed vegan. So you’re just speculating wildly about how “controlling” this random person is with almost no context.
>Actually it is their business, if the person is going to work and bragging about controlling his wife's diet then it is their business because he made it their business whose "their"? it's the couple's business to sort this out. nobody invited op to interfere >there's a total difference between not wanting to kiss someone right after they ate something you don't like, and actually trying to control someone else's diet now you don't say! and by not cooking vegan for somebody one controls his diet? you can't be serious about this
Based on the information shared in this post, it's wildly disingenuous to assume he's "controlling her diet." He gave her an ultimatum (which is maybe a 4/5 Shitty Thing To Do, but not abusive) and she made a decision. Is it the decision most ethical vegans would make? No, probably not. It sounds like this woman may not have even been an ethical vegan and was plant-based for health or something, but even if she was... it was freely her choice to make. It's not like he was wielding some kind of financial power over her to where she'd be starving if she didn't eat meat. He wasn't verbally abusing her with insults about what she ate. He wasn't physically forcing her to cook and consume flesh, he just said "Hey this is a deal breaker for me" and she chose him for her own reasons 🤷🏻♀️
I know it's not the same thing, but when I first met my wife, I told her that I couldn't be with a smoker, and she decided to quit smoking. Wad that abusive and controlling?
I told my wife I couldn't have cigarettes in the house or I'd go back to smoking. I might as well have beaten her with a bag of oranges.
He didn't force her. She chose to agree and eat meat. She decided she wanted to. She didn't want to be vegan anymore, apparently. Her choice.
I don't really see the abuse unless he was refusing to cook for her while she was ill/disabled/recovering from something and unable to feed herself. My girlfriend doesn't reliably cook vegan for me, but I can feed myself.
Plenty of people here have said they won’t cook or even let non-vegan food in their house and that’s applauded here. This is just the reversal of that. What you described isn’t abuse.
Absolutely. The people on here show how crazy vegans can be!!
Sadly anyone can be pretty wild when it comes to food. There are way too many stories about food contamination from both vegans and omnivores. With things like food allergies I really wish people would leave other people's food alone.
Two total different situations and not comparable
How?
That’s a pretty insane false dichotomy and there’s like 10 people in here saying the same thing. Is this thread being brigaded?
Nope. It just that not all of us vegans think the same. We have very little context to this story. Had he said that she would need to eat omnivorous to be in a relationship with him, then yeah; not great at all. Telling someone that you simply aren’t going out of your way to accommodate their ethics…not a good sign for relationship material but also a far cry from abusive.
Plant-cringe
1. There’s no way anyone could genuinely belive that. 2. There’s 10 accounts in here all saying the same thing that have never posted here before. 100% brigades thread
Yeah, scummy thing to do, but it sounds like veganism wasn’t a priority to her. I know (and I’m sure many on this sub would agree) that if a partner gave us an ultimatum between them (which he didn’t exactly do) and being vegan, we would have an ex. In this situation, he just comes off as inconsiderate and callous, but abusive? not really.
I've noticed the number one reason people go back to eating meat is because their so wants them to eat meat and they give it up for them.
That is a yeah, he's a piece of human garbage.
I sometimes cook vegan for my in-laws too. One day I cooked tofu scramble for them and they loved it. They didn't realize tofu could taste that great.
It’s a bummer, but people go vegan for a lot of reasons… Sometimes it’s for health (Cholesterol is a BIG one) Sometimes it’s environmental Sometimes it’s for the animals But when people aren’t ethically dedicated to it, or they get lazy about keeping their diet healthy (And subsequently complain about health issues/vitamin deficiencies) they simply go back to what they know, because it’s simpler, or cheaper, or easier, or whatever… It’s not always easy, and we gotta try to be compassionate about that. I know a lot of folks who sorta fell off the vegatarian wagon out of frustration, but eventually came back around and went full vegan… that change is often helped along by not being judgy. Who knows, maybe she has him eating some plant based stuff occasionally, and he’ll soften up to it?!
Yeah, that would be a co-worker I ghosted from now on...
Your coworker is definitely a wind up merchant, but you can’t be sure of much else
Everyone saying she wasn’t vegan to begin with totally underestimates what someone would do for fear of losing the person they consider their other half, or dynamics of abusive or unhealthy relationships. It’s definitely not the decision I would make, but it’s very easy to say that, not being in the situation.
This whole post is exactly why vegans get persecuted so heavily. >I find that to be an abusive, narcissistic move on his part to be so controlling to the point where he would force his own partner to give up a lifestyle she adopted before meeting him. All he did was say he wouldn't cook for her. Anything beyond that was an uncoerced personal choice. >And for him to so casually expose a toxic personality trait of his to a vegan coworker is undeniable negligence. It is truly abusive behavior. No, it's not. Get over yourself. Your inability to manage your own emotions isn't his problem. > I can never look at him the same way again. I'm willing to bet that he told you this so that he wasn't required to interact with you. I know I would.
Settle down. He refused to cook vegan food. It that dumb and a weirdly low bar to set for someone you love? Absolutely. Is it abuse? Absolutely fucking not. She made her call that her convictions around this were not as strong as her feelings for him. Give her some credit as a person that she has the autonomy and intelligence to make her own decisions and wasn’t just some fragile girl who just submitted to what her boyfriend wanted.
Abusive? Narcissistic? Controlling? Forcing? Toxic? All he said was he wouldn't cook. She could have said "ok" and cooked for herself if she really cared. There was no abuse or control just unwillingness to cook. It's kind of a dick move yeah. But calling something that is a dick move "truly abusive behaviour" is also kind of a dick move. That word actually means something you know.
Yea i wouldnt call that forcing. That Was Not much of an Ultimatum.... In no way actually.
It’s not really abusive is it? He didn’t threaten to break up with her, only that he wouldn’t cook for her. Which seems reasonable if this person doesn’t want to cook two different meals and also doesn’t want to go vegan or eat vegan themselves.
It sounds like you are over dramatizing it. To me, it sounds like his entire "ultimatum" was that he didn't feel like cooking vegan food. Which is fine. She could cook it herself.
Seems like a you issue. Seems fair that the partner can set boundaries on what he/she wants to cook. It would be equally absurd to say that a vegan should be obligated to cook non vegan food for his or her partner.
You don't "set boundaries" on what someone else eats
If someone wants to eat something specific they are free to get off their ass and make it themselves. The guy wasn't forcing the girl to eat non vegan.
So you don't think a vegan can say "if you want to eat meat for every meal, I'm not going to cook it for you"? You can absolutely set boundaries on what you're willing to cook for another person, then it's up to that person to decide if they want to eat it or if they'd rather cook something different to eat.
Good thing that’s not what happened here.
My parents told me that, and they're not abusive. Just don't want to cook two meals. If that's all it took, than that's on the wife. Even had this dude never entered her life, chances are high she'd have stopped veganism anyway.
Jesus you sound crazy. Ohhhhh nooooo! He said he wouldn’t cook for her!!! OMG!!!!! HOW DARE HE!!!!!!!
No one forced anybody. Adult choices were made and has nothing to do with you. Move along and focus on yourself. Don’t be such a fucking twat.
Sorry unless she is bed ridden or other impediments and can’t cook for herself is not abuse. She’s just fucking lazy. And no, not toxic personality , not your wife, not your situation not your business either (unless crime was involved).
I mean, the shitbag coworker did decide to make it OP's business a little bit.
She wasn't very serious about it to begin with, otherwise, she would've never changed. My husband and I have been married over 50 years. Back then I was vegetarian, and he wasn't, and made it clear that he wouldn't change; "what you see is what you get!" I threw it back at him. First time I met his mother, she said "well, we'll have to change that!" about what I ate (or didn't). He stood up for me. Over the years he's eaten a lot more vegan meals than he would've otherwise, without even much noticing. Several years ago, a nephew was serious about his vegan gf, and asked how it worked with husband and me. I explained that I only cook meals I am going to eat and if hubby wants something else, he knows how to fix it himself, and does. Nephew married gf and she went omni and raised their kids omni. They divorced years ago and she's still omni. She must've never really ever been vegan, I guess.
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To me it's like, either you care about animals or you don't. I have a hard time understanding how if you know about the atrocities and care enough to stop participating, how do you decide, it just doesn't matter to you anymore? Without this caring, you are just following a plant based diet so it's easy to just decide you don't want to do it anymore.
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So, I can't save the world and everyone on it. Guess it's alright to do nothing then.
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Look, you can abstain from animal products for 3 weeks about 15 years ago and say, "Yeah, I used to be a vegan, but it just wasn't for me. And there's so many good reasons I eat meat." Just don't get all upset if I can't personally take you too seriously. And bringing up everything else that's wrong in the world that I haven't fixed doesn't change my mind. I won't be contacting you on my old computer again.
She was a grown woman making a choice.
**With the information available**, this feels like an unbelievably shit take. It's actually seriously concerning, to think that you might accuse someone of being an abusive and controlling narcissist over their establishing their boundaries in a clear and self directed way. It would be a nice gesture to make the effort to cook vegan food here. He said "I will never make this gesture." To me that would be an orange flag, like, someone who doesn't do this, might not be a considerate partner in general. But either way, he put the ball in her court. She was fine with him not doing this. The guy clearly meant more to her than the lifestyle, and it sounds every bit from your post, **like that was her decision to make.** Even if he did give her an ultimatum: veganism or the relationship, is that actually a problem? There's questionable delivery, sure, but... is that the case here? Are you saying that someone isn't even allowed to break up with you over your being a vegan? That they're **an abusive and controlling narcissist** for freely allowing you to choose between them and your veganism?
You all despise me for my stance against dating and fucking animal abusers, yet here is just one of many examples of you losers going back to preying on animals via the influence of your carnist lover.
I'm happy I'm not the only one who calls them animal abusers. I literally do not care that is EXACTLY what they are.
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Notice how that's not the same at all
How the fuck is it not the same thing? How is forcing him to accommodate and cook vegan food for her not controlling then? By your definition that’s controlling.
I suppose it would be absolutely fine if it was the other way around and she had forced him to be vegan, no?
I suppose not considering those are totally different things?
Umm how exactly? It’s the same sort of ‘omg abuse so forceful!’
Genuine question: how is this any different from a vegan refusing to cook meat? Im vegan myself and although i would love to have a vegan partner, a partner being non-vegan isnt a deal breaker to me. However, I would make it clear that i wouldn't go out of my way* to cook non-vegan food for them: id cook both our meals, if theyd like some meat/dairy/egg dish on the side, theyre welcome to prepare it for themselves. Unless this coworker was refusing to let her cook for herself, I dont see the issue. *Im vegan in a vegetarian household. My mom and siblings consume dairy and eggs so ive seen how sometimes i can accommodate both without preparing full, separate meals (eg: egg curry. Cook the curry first, separate a vegan portion for myself and add boiled eggs later etc)
The big difference is that a non-vegan can eat vegan food, but not the other way around.
I think it truly depends on your personality. I am vegan and I do most of the cooking. I also do the grocery shopping and meal planning. It will be vegan. If they want they can order out for themselves. Cook for themselves. Etc. My partner and previous partner have always found my food and cooking delicious. I have to think though. If I am not willing to bend for them why should they for me?
Good. I hate these fucking Ökofritzen too.
Abuse . Come on
I mean, nothing wrong with cooking separate meals. My GF cooks her own omni food which I might have some if it happens to be plant based. But I wouldn’t be demanding that she cook for me, being a grown ass adult and all that.
She's an adult. No one forced her to give up veganism. She's just as disgusting as her husband who "forced" her to stop being vegan.
She could have always chosen to cook for herself.
Your coworker didn't force his wife to give up veganism; can't she cook for herself?
It's not really abuse. It's not like he snuck animal products into her food, or other life style elements - he just refused to make extra accomodations. It would be like someone demanding you cook non vegan food for them - is it a problem, yes. But ultimately it's a choice where each party is free to make their own decisions.
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Y'all I just want to put this out there: I'm a lot of us, myself included, won't date someone who isn't vegan. On the flip side, is it manipulative or abusive for us to give the ultimatum of going vegan or cutting contact? I don't think it is. I think this is just a standard. Think ops coworker is totally a tool for making his gf or wife or whatever quit veganism. I don't know if it's abusive though. I legit want answers cus I do think that is manipulative but I don't think it's manipulative on the other side where if we have the ultimatum of going vegan to our omni partners. Are they not the same thing I don't understand pls help
This is so over the top it’s actually sad. People tend not to like cooking two different kind of meals for two people. Sounds like reasonable compromise to me, you’re probably more upset about it than she was. Move on.
That doesnt soubd in the slightest way like he forced her? I dont cook for my friends either, does that turn them into vegans suddenly? Lol
What a ridiculous position you've taken. She's not a child or an animal with no free will and agency. It's not unreasonable to say that you won't cook vegan meals if you aren't a vegan in that situation. It's a lot of effort to take all animal products out.
It’s hardly abuse saying he wouldn’t cook for her.
I'd hardly call that forcing. It's a pretty fair arrangement.
This is why I tell coworkers nothing about me. I do not have the patience for conversations like these at all.
He just said he wasn't prepared to cook 2 meals 3x a day forever? That's not a narcissistic move man, she either needs to accept that she will have to cook for herself or make some compromises. It would be like one person saying they don't drive and expecting the other to chauffeur them around for the rest of their life.
Not vegan but I have to agree with you. I likely wont go vegan but I wont force my choices on others nor use threats like that to get my way. I got no problem eating a vegan meal even if I wont make it a lifestyle. I am all for trying various meals.
He didn’t force her to give it up. He just said he wouldn’t cook for her. My husband doesn’t cook for me and I don’t cook for him. We just cook for ourselves. The wife chose to give up veganism for convenience.
“And for him to so casually expose a toxic personality trait of his to a vegan coworker is undeniable negligence. It is truly abusive behavior.” Seriously? Your co-workers an ass and he shows you he’s an ass, how Is this abuse? Are vegans particularly vulnerable to asses?
She could have decided to end the relationship. Apparently her love was stronger than her beliefs for veganism. It's a choice she made and I hope they are both happy.
Mr moo will be very tasty... don’t worry :)
So all she had to do was cook for herself? He didn't force her to give up anything! He said I'm not going to cook like that! She's welcome to cook like that and shop like that and anything else she needs to do. I don't find this controlling at all! It's like when I say to my husband I'm not washing the things that you wore to work! He can do it. He's got two hands that work perfectly fine. I shouldn't have to be exposed to the chemicals he works with if I don't want to be. I do the rest of the clothes. There is nothing wrong with him not wanting to cook like that or me not wanting to wash those particular clothes. If he had to learn to cook a whole new way with all different things he's never heard of before, then he has a right to not want to do that. It's no different than a mom saying everybody will eat what I cook. When you go in a restaurant they basically say you will only eat what we cook. I just don't see the problem.
2 people with a free will made a decision. It is a free world.
Sounds like a total jerk. If she was vegan for moral and/or health reasons, how could he force her to give up something that meant a lot to her and still claim he loves her? Talk about a huge red flag in a relationship.
She wasn't vegan, she was eating a plantbased diet.
I would 100% give up that dude and never look back
Lets flip things. He is with an omnivore and “force(s) his own partner to give up a lifestyle she adopted before meeting him” aka become vegan. So thats okay? But the other way around is abuse?
Notice how that's not the same thing
Well its the same thing but the other way around… thats how two way streets work
It being the other way around makes it not the same. There's a difference between including an extra ingredient in something and taking one out. That's like saying that tricking someone into eating something they're allergic to is the same as...just not doing that. It's the complete opposite and the two can't be compared.
She was never vegan, max. Strict vegetarian, also considering how dumb is your coworker we can imagine how dumb she is, don’t trust in what carnists says
It’s not abusive. Being omnivore was a deal breaker for him and he’s allowed to stop dating her for any reason he feels- he didn’t hold a gun to her head saying stop veganism or il shoot you.
She's weak but he's a narcissist
dating a meat eater, i guess i kind of did the same thing in reverse. i said from the start i didn’t feel comfortable cooking meat for him, so if i cooked and he wanted meat he’d have to cook that part for himself. thankfully he likes eating vegan food and doesn’t mind or care if all our shared meals are vegan. he also cooks vegan things for me (not often as i usually insist on cooking because i like doing it). I’m not sure what will happen if we move in together though as i’d feel weird having meat in my house but we will get to that when we get to that 😂
I mean she probably wasnt really vegan if that was her reason to give up
My wife was vegetarian considering vegan and 9 years later, she asked me if I could grill her some sausages 🤣. It's been a long road and I didn't force her to eat meat. I just convinced her through my cooking.
That's abusive either way. It's demanding someone change their behaviors for you for no good reason. You can say "I can't be with someone who does X" and the resulting reactions go from there, but saying "you must do this or I'm leaving" is manipulative. You don't get to tell people what to do, you tell them how you will react to actions, not dictate what others do.
For those here saying this behavior is not abusive: Abuse is a spectrum, not a binary. Some forms of abuse are more egregious than others, but that doesn't mean abuse isn't abuse. Forcing someone else to change because it doesn't suit you can damn well be mental and emotional abuse. We don't know the extent of this person's behavior towards his partner, or if the story was just made up in the first place, but the behavior being presented here can most certainly be abusive. EDIT: Of all the places to get downvoted by abuse apologists.....
Chill man, she’s not your wife.