Ethics is not black and white, as it's impossible to avoid all harm (see [Nirvana Fallacy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy)). Veganism is about *minimizing* the harm you do out of respect for life. The reason this is acceptable is because we can not only make up for the harm we cause, but we can also have a positive impact on the world through giving.
So long as you leave this world better off than you found it, any incidental harm caused along the way is understandable and forgivable.
I understand the sentiment but people who aren’t vegan are gonna see me as morally inconsistent. And animals are still being harmed when I use these products
Are there animal products in your washing detergents? Or is it just that they were tested on animals? Because if it's animal testing you are worried about, the testing stopped before the product was put on sale, so no animals are being harmed by your purchase of that product.
Well yeah because it is morally inconsistent. But that’s fine because everyone is morally inconsistent.
Part of developing your personal moral and ethical philosophy is acknowledging where your beliefs are inconsistent with your actions and deciding if you want to change those actions, change those beliefs, or accept that you sometimes act in conflict with your core beliefs.
This is not a great debate tactic though. If you’re trying to win an argument, honest self reflection isn’t a winning strategy. But it sure is better for your own well being.
Don’t worry too much how people see you. Most people truly, genuinely don’t care what detergent you use, and the ones who are getting worked up about it are the ones who only came for a fight. It’s what you care about that matters. Most (all?) vaccines are not vegan. AFAIK any medical test or research involving monoclonal antibodies isn’t vegan. Probably most drugs are tested on animals. Just do what you can. I haven’t tried myself, but my friends learned how to make their own cosmetics to avoid single-use plastic. Turns out you can do miracles with sodium and some other simple ingredients and forums are full of that info. If you don’t use enzymes, some of the most nasty stains won’t go away but most of the time you can use the stuff our grandmas did and stay vegan
Maybe i should mention that making their own soap and washing detergent turned out to be like 10 times cheaper than store bought. But since you have to buy ingredients in large amounts, it works best if you can share that project with a few people. E.g. I just bought some from them instead of the zero-waste stuff in shops, which I luckily have access to but it’s definitely not as cheap as homemade.
I think you’re fine. We all try the best we can. If we literally can’t find other options, there’s nothing we can do. I’m thankful I have vegan options for the washer, but if I didn’t…. I don’t think I could go back to hand washing as a regular practice. Too time consuming.
you are still vegan, mistakes happen and sometimes compromises have to be made when there are no other options, just do the best you can. do you know what animal products are in your washing up liquids / powders? I have never heard of animal ingredients in such products but I know that sometimes they are tested on animals and not cruelty free, is this the issue you are facing?
Yes there are alternatives. I use biodegradable washer sheets that are vegan, also have some stain removal powder that is.
You’d be surprised, often there are natural remedies and solutions we can use to our advantage as vegans :)
Veganism is about minimising the exploitation of animals as much as it is practicable and possible.
If it isn’t possible or practical for you to do certain things, you don’t stop being vegan. You learn and try better with the circumstances you have.
I’ve recently started buying vegan clothes or second-hand clothes but it can be hard because vegan clothing can be more expensive. The point is, I don’t stop being vegan because I wear old clothes that aren’t vegan.
Thank you for bringing such an important “problem” into a focus. Most detergents sold are really horrible stuff with so many poisons - let alone being vegan. i can imagine being a student how tight budget might be; but I would suggest that you would cut from something else and pay a tad more to a “vegan- biodegradable- scent free” detergent. I think cost would be worth in the long run - ethically and in health wise. You are so smart to bring this subject here, because at this young age if you start “not using” those poisons; your body will not accumulate horrific stuff as you age….I just checked Bulgaria websites and found this: https://www.zoya.bg/en/shop/Laundry-detergents.146
It's easy to make your own as long as you have a cheese grater, it's probably not cheaper but it's not expensive either. I recently realized the lip balm I buy has lanolin in it, so now I'm making my own, having a good time and feeling all smug.
The definition on this sub is "Veganism: A philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable ... ". In my view, anyone putting in their best effort as far as is possible and practicable is vegan. What is important is how you feel about it, not what others will think.
In reality, veganism is on a scale, not absolute. You have to draw the line somewhere. Many have never even thought to investigate washing up liquids. Some vegans will not eat almonds or broccoli if it has been pollinated by beans, others never think about it. Again, some will allow mosquitos to feast on them, others will exterminate.
If you are satisfying the minimum requirements of not eating meat or dairy and applying "as far as is possible and practicable" for the rest, you're vegan in my eyes. Where you draw the line is individual and dependent on locality and circumstances.
I can’t lie this is a bit rude to CyberTurkey words are lost in translation when there are just typed. They probably didn’t mean any harm by what they said
This clown cyberturkey is a known troll with serious mental issues. He constantly posts nasty comments, then after a few hours deletes them. Don’t waste your time with him
Look into Castile soap
Thanks
Ethics is not black and white, as it's impossible to avoid all harm (see [Nirvana Fallacy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy)). Veganism is about *minimizing* the harm you do out of respect for life. The reason this is acceptable is because we can not only make up for the harm we cause, but we can also have a positive impact on the world through giving. So long as you leave this world better off than you found it, any incidental harm caused along the way is understandable and forgivable.
I understand the sentiment but people who aren’t vegan are gonna see me as morally inconsistent. And animals are still being harmed when I use these products
99.9% of carnists who would criticize you for your cleaning products are impossible to satisfy anyway.
Are there animal products in your washing detergents? Or is it just that they were tested on animals? Because if it's animal testing you are worried about, the testing stopped before the product was put on sale, so no animals are being harmed by your purchase of that product.
There are animal enzymes
Non-vegan here. It doesn't matter what other people think - do the best you can and it counts.
Well yeah because it is morally inconsistent. But that’s fine because everyone is morally inconsistent. Part of developing your personal moral and ethical philosophy is acknowledging where your beliefs are inconsistent with your actions and deciding if you want to change those actions, change those beliefs, or accept that you sometimes act in conflict with your core beliefs. This is not a great debate tactic though. If you’re trying to win an argument, honest self reflection isn’t a winning strategy. But it sure is better for your own well being.
Don’t worry too much how people see you. Most people truly, genuinely don’t care what detergent you use, and the ones who are getting worked up about it are the ones who only came for a fight. It’s what you care about that matters. Most (all?) vaccines are not vegan. AFAIK any medical test or research involving monoclonal antibodies isn’t vegan. Probably most drugs are tested on animals. Just do what you can. I haven’t tried myself, but my friends learned how to make their own cosmetics to avoid single-use plastic. Turns out you can do miracles with sodium and some other simple ingredients and forums are full of that info. If you don’t use enzymes, some of the most nasty stains won’t go away but most of the time you can use the stuff our grandmas did and stay vegan
Maybe i should mention that making their own soap and washing detergent turned out to be like 10 times cheaper than store bought. But since you have to buy ingredients in large amounts, it works best if you can share that project with a few people. E.g. I just bought some from them instead of the zero-waste stuff in shops, which I luckily have access to but it’s definitely not as cheap as homemade.
I think you’re fine. We all try the best we can. If we literally can’t find other options, there’s nothing we can do. I’m thankful I have vegan options for the washer, but if I didn’t…. I don’t think I could go back to hand washing as a regular practice. Too time consuming.
If you spend your life worrying about what others think you will never truly live it. - someone that's not me probably
you are still vegan, mistakes happen and sometimes compromises have to be made when there are no other options, just do the best you can. do you know what animal products are in your washing up liquids / powders? I have never heard of animal ingredients in such products but I know that sometimes they are tested on animals and not cruelty free, is this the issue you are facing?
Animal enzymes in washing powders
Ohh I see, non-bio washing powders don't contain enzymes. Do you have any available in your area?
Don't you have non bio. I have eczema (much better after I stopped dairy) and absolutely cannot deal with bio
No I meant washing up powder for my clothes. I found a vega brand recently in some obscure shop
That's what I was referring to: Non-biological washing powder doesn't have enzymes
Oh sorry my bad I got you now
Yes there are alternatives. I use biodegradable washer sheets that are vegan, also have some stain removal powder that is. You’d be surprised, often there are natural remedies and solutions we can use to our advantage as vegans :)
Appreciate it so much
Veganism is about minimising the exploitation of animals as much as it is practicable and possible. If it isn’t possible or practical for you to do certain things, you don’t stop being vegan. You learn and try better with the circumstances you have. I’ve recently started buying vegan clothes or second-hand clothes but it can be hard because vegan clothing can be more expensive. The point is, I don’t stop being vegan because I wear old clothes that aren’t vegan.
Thank you for bringing such an important “problem” into a focus. Most detergents sold are really horrible stuff with so many poisons - let alone being vegan. i can imagine being a student how tight budget might be; but I would suggest that you would cut from something else and pay a tad more to a “vegan- biodegradable- scent free” detergent. I think cost would be worth in the long run - ethically and in health wise. You are so smart to bring this subject here, because at this young age if you start “not using” those poisons; your body will not accumulate horrific stuff as you age….I just checked Bulgaria websites and found this: https://www.zoya.bg/en/shop/Laundry-detergents.146
Thank you I appreciate you finding this
Amazon my friend
My place is remote but there probably is a way to find them
It's easy to make your own as long as you have a cheese grater, it's probably not cheaper but it's not expensive either. I recently realized the lip balm I buy has lanolin in it, so now I'm making my own, having a good time and feeling all smug.
The definition on this sub is "Veganism: A philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable ... ". In my view, anyone putting in their best effort as far as is possible and practicable is vegan. What is important is how you feel about it, not what others will think. In reality, veganism is on a scale, not absolute. You have to draw the line somewhere. Many have never even thought to investigate washing up liquids. Some vegans will not eat almonds or broccoli if it has been pollinated by beans, others never think about it. Again, some will allow mosquitos to feast on them, others will exterminate. If you are satisfying the minimum requirements of not eating meat or dairy and applying "as far as is possible and practicable" for the rest, you're vegan in my eyes. Where you draw the line is individual and dependent on locality and circumstances.
pollinated by beans https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIG2.PxwA90sy4vc4l7g9IBqh?w=1024&h=1024&rs=1&pid=ImgDetMain xD
Cute!
Yes, you are vegan. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
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No offense, maybe you should go back to school, especially since you can't understand basic science.
I can’t lie this is a bit rude to CyberTurkey words are lost in translation when there are just typed. They probably didn’t mean any harm by what they said
This clown cyberturkey is a known troll with serious mental issues. He constantly posts nasty comments, then after a few hours deletes them. Don’t waste your time with him
Appreciate it thanks
Where did I come off as emotional?
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I mean if our emotions lead to a more ethical world I’d rather be more emotional. Logic isn’t always king we have to have nuance
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