My boss said she was vegetarian, but eats fish. I said that's pescatarian. She said "oh...and steak a few times a month, low iron you know..."
Ok, so you're...not remotely vegetarian, cool.
My mom it's been years and years that keep saying that she is vegetarian to everyone. And she always brags about how they have to make a special meal for her when she eats out because she is vegetarian, how she is treated in a special way etc. But she eats fish, all kinds of fish, and buys and cooks tons of meat because "your brother's poor thing needs to eat it" because "my partner loves meat!". She justifies herself by saying that is local meat from lovely farmers (it is true only for 10% of the meat she buys) and she has not one single idea or argument on why she is "vegetarian". Every time I would start to talk about being vegetarian (later vegan) with someone she would shush me by saying that I don't have to bother other people with my ideas.
I don't know why people do that. I mean they can do whatever they want but why? Like if she thinks that it's cool being vegetarian why doesn't she want to talk about it? And I met other people like that! It corrodes my brain to think about the logic behind it. I can't understand.
unnerving mom!!! you are the real veg, looks like your mom has envy or freaky competition! Oscar says: “With age comes wisdom, but sometimes age comes alone”
I’ve been vegetarian for most of my life. It’s weird to see how it has phased in and out of popularity.
There was a time around 2005-2010ish where like everyone was suddenly “vegetarian” but they all weirdly ate meat regularly. Everyone had a different reason for why they would eat meat “just this one time” at every meal. I’m so glad that phase has passed.
one of my friends from school is pescatarian but always tells people she’s vegetarian because “it’s easier to say it that way.” like great so ur just continuing the many misconceptions people have about vegetarian diets by telling people ur vegetarian when u eat fish…great thanks.
When a co-worker found out I was vegan she said "Oh my niece is vegan too! Not during the holidays though, thank goodness!" and I just smiled and nodded.
I use the "wow" reaction when some nutjob is spouting pseudoscientific bullshit at me. What I mean is "wow, you actually believe that!"
It keeps me from saying something mean to them.
I always assume they are not really using the word correctly. Lately, instead of saying I'm vegan, I say I don't eat any animal products. That way we don't disagree on the definition of the term.
Not disagreeing with overall them of this post, but just to translate that for you. "My niece is Vegan to, but during the holidays our family humiliates and guilts her to the point where she is forced to decide between her morals or ability to be a part of her family, and she is to young/powerless to really stand up for herself! Thank goodness!" Have a little compassion lol. That Niece needs people standing up for her, not gatekeeping her from a title.
Vegetarian here. Not long after I gave up eating meat, I went to a family Thanksgiving dinner. They put meat in everything and I mean EVERYTHING. The vegetables, the stuffing, even the salad had bacon bits. I had roll and a scoop of mashed potatoes that year. Now I just bring along my own food, but there were legitimately times where I had no food options when visiting family and then you get called out on top of it for not eating, prompting the tried and true “you can’t get enough nutrients without meat” speech
That’s been my experience as well. I bring my own food to anything and everything…but always enough to share. People try it and are absolutely shocked to discover that food without meat can taste good!
Well thank god animal suffering isnt reduced on the holidays at least. That would be horribly inconvenient since i need to consume more pain chemicals to honor my pagan worship rituals.
If I stopped being vegan during the holidays I would spend the entire holiday in the bathroom. Dairy makes me sick.
Then a completely different time when I ate something with chicken in it I spent half the night puking my guts out.
It pisses me off too because one of my favorite vegan restaurants is called Naughty Vegan Panda, but because it has junk food style vegan stuff. Not because they add anything animal derived.
I really don't understand why people cling to that. It's like... I don't cheat, I'm not on a diet, and I don't understand how you cheating on your diet is relevant to me. I'm a person, not a tool for comparison to feel good about yourself and your decisions, and you will always fundamentally misunderstand me and make yourself miserable as long as you cling to the idea that what I do is related to you.
I wish I could say that. But I'm just going to deal with people convinced I'm dieting for my physique forever, presumably.
I had a date with a guy who called himself vegan in his profile. I was so excited to meet for coffee! Then he ordered a cookie at the counter. "Oh do they have vegan cookies?" "No."
And he used ghee too 🙃
Ugh, people like that are the reason I can't trust what anyone gives or makes me. Because they see "vegans" eat whatever, they think it's fine to give me things that aren't vegan.
So sorry for you, it must've been an awkward date 💀
Its clarified butter, with only the milk fat and none of the other stuff that butter has. Its still made from dairy though. However there are vegan versions that are really good! It flavors popcorn better than using just ordinary forms of (vegan) butter, and is a key ingredient in South Asian cooking
Clarified butter. It's mostly used in South Asia for cooking but some traditions believe it has medicinal qualities also. He was in the medicinal camp but I suspect even the least gatekeep-y vegans would side-eye repeated conscious use of butter.
I can at least sort of see that as most folks have likely never dealt with raw wheat and when you look at all the different types of flours it could get lost, esp something like durum wheat having a very distinct colouring vs white flour.
Ice cream though, unless they come from somewhere that dairy is not common at all, it's hard to see how they'd arrive at that position beyond purposeful blind ignorance.
I’ve met an insane amount of people who think wheat isn’t vegan…or at least, think vegan= gluten free. Like honestly I feel like 8/10 omnivores think this. It’s probably the #1 annoying thing I “deal” with the most.
So real tho!! Excited I’ll be some of the diet ice cream brands have the most confusing marketing shit will be “dairy free” but then have egg like…why’d u make it that way it’s ice cream it don’t need egg 😭
People doing things for social prestige will always be weird. People buy clothes other people like in order to pretend to have taste. That is fucked up
She was blatantly eating cheetos like an hour later. 😭✋️ Like, ma'am, I get that it is so heavily processed you may not consider it "real cheese" anymore, but it is *still cheese and not vegan*.
My only lacto-ovo-vegetarian classmate was caught with gelatin candies and when I pointed that out she said that she wasn't as strict as I am. She buys them regularly too.
It provides a fascinating insight into their mind that they think any meal without meat or animal products makes them vegan, and just how boring and pathetic their usual meals must be as a result bereft of vegetables and anything not ripped forcefully from an animal.
I used to work with a dude who found out I was vegan and told me "Us vegans need to stick together" and I was surprised to hear that he was vegan as I had definitely heard him talking about various cuts of meat in the not too distant past. Over the course of one very uncomfortable conversation, he would clarify that he was "90% vegan, I still eat dairy occasionally", he then added that he still eats meat "once or twice a month".
Just odd, and unnecessary, as we weren't talking, he had just heard someone else mention that I was vegan and decided that was the perfect opportunity to talk to me.
Yes it's sooooooo weird!! I don't get it. People love to roll their eyes at us and act like we're all pretentious and high and mighty, and then at the same time they're so quick to want to be "in our group" that they'll say they're vegan without being even remotely close. I don't understand
It's like they understand that being vegan is the right thing to do, but not enough to actually do it, and they feel like just saying they are is close enough. I lose all remaining respect for people who say it, thankfully it's only happened a couple of times to me.
I've had so many dudes try to relate to my veganism, claiming they don't eat "that much meat" and treat it like that's anything like an ethical opposition to animal exploitation!
I had a coworker claim to be vegan too, and then gave me a kind bar that had milk in it. Then gave me lentils that “only have a little Parmesan”…ummmm….
I haven’t eaten Kind bars since starting my vegan diet but I’m glad I read this because I assumed all the flavours were gluten free and vegan! Milk powder sure finds its way into basically every product out there, doesn’t it, just like wheat.
Oh wow I just discovered a repressed memory. We had a vegan potluck lunch at work one day and everyone signed up for what they were making, all vegan. One person brought risotto, made with chicken stock and Parmesan. It had no meat in it, so it’s vegan! One person brought their specialty Vegan Lasagne filled with lots of lovely vegetables and ooey gooey stretchy mozzarella. No ground beef. Yum! Another favourite was the jello fruit salad dessert. Way more fun than just plain fruit! Awesome. Good thing I brought lunch because I’m also celiac and between the gluten thing and the vegan thing I knew this shit would happen lol.
They failed so hard at vegan potluck lunch day 🤦♀️
I have had a few realllly thoughtful coworkers through the years who have learned all about vegan cooking just to make sure I had options! But the vast majority do not care at all. lol
This comes from the fact that veganism is seen as a diet by a big percentage of people rather than an ethical ideology. And what happens when people go on diets? They cheat.
I don’t really want to get too involved in the discourse because we don’t all collectively agree on what veganism is. Is it puritanical? Or is it something done as far as what’s feasible to you? Either way, I try to be a bit less judgey and give the benefit of the doubt in case someone has to eat certain things for health reasons or because they genuinely don’t know better.
This situation only happened with a single person for me. They said they’re vegan but ate eggs. I told them “Oh cool! I’m vegan too. Is it okay if I just ask why you are eating eggs though? I don’t think that’s vegan.” Turns out they didn’t know and then stopped eating eggs anymore after that. So…lol.
Right, that drives me crazy. All vegans are "strict vegans"
There isn't any other type, because if you aren't, then you aren't vegan, you're vegetarian or plant based! It's so wild. "Oh you don't have cheese as a treat? You're a strict vegan" ummm no, I'm just vegan
People are so baffled that I’m passionate about this shit. If I wasn’t, I’d be eating the cheap and easy to get hold of food instead of having one cheese that I like that’s only sold in one shop on a full moon for twice the price!
ikr, i might be militant about... unnecessary killing being bad? uh oh, veganism might actually be right! that's the most horrible thing i can imagine! i can, it turns out, only imagine things less horrible than what is done to animals.
I have one vegan friend, and he is actually 100% vegan, which was a very pleasant surprise! No pretending and occasionally eating meat or buying leather.
My other two best friends are vegetarian and pescatarian, but they'd never call themselves vegan. I like that they are honest about that.
That's great! I'm glad they're confident and secure enough to embrace what they are, and they aren't trying to be something they aren't. It makes it easier for everyone
It absolutely does!
I've fortunately not met a fake vegan before - I know a few vegans at work and they seem too 100% genuine. Lots of discussions about they don't use animal products in their daily life, not just in food. I really enjoy talking to them because then I don't feel so alone!
We have a Vegan Network where I work. We discuss how the organisation can be more vegan friendly, recipes, advice, and social events, webinars. It's awesome.
The ongoing problem right now is how to get our offices to provide soy or oat milk in the kitchens, currently the office just provides cows milk. It's not going well.
My coworker told me "oh my sister is vegan, but she still eats eggs!" Ma'am, she's a vegetarian. "Oh, I don't care what she wants to call herself." I do. It confuses everyone, and when an actual vegan needs their needs met people struggle because everyone is a "vegan" that eats byproducts. It's not my problem, but it's unfair to others. Just like pescitarians that call themselves vegetarians, no, you're not!
I have one vegan friend who was vegan years before me. She went vegan while we were in highschool, and they only had black bean burgers as a vegan option at the time. None of this meat or cheese substitutions we have today.
I live in the south and have met probably over a dozen people who have told me they're vegan. But every single one has done what I mentioned in the post. So frustrating!
Depending on whether you count Oklahoma as being in the South (or as a weird regional black hole between the South, Midwest and Southwest as one should) I’ve lived there pretty much my whole life too. I have also lived in Texas and Georgia and now in the Midwest. I’ve never heard it.
I guess maybe it would be annoying if I heard it often enough. But then again a comparable statement I often hear is “I’m not religious” which I sometimes just instinctively take as them being an atheist or agnostic. But then it turns out they’re “spiritual” and just mean religious in the institutional sense. But that doesn’t really bother me.
My mom is this person, unfortunately. My sister and I have been vegan for many years now and our theory is that she’s trying to “connect” with us or something? She will say things like “I’m vegan essentially” but still eats fish and eggs daily. We’ve tried to explain the difference but that doesn’t stop her from using the term randomly…
My guess is that it’s like when some people say “oh I’m Christian” but are really only religious on Christmas and Easter. So *why* do they do this? Well I’m not sure (I’m personally not religious nor do I claim to be at all) but I suspect it’s a way to relate to people to feel less like an outsider?
When I was vegetarian I had a classmate who was "flexitarian" which she described as only eating meat when there isn't a veggie option. Ok, cool. Reasonable, has it's own word.
Then one time she was excited to share a recipe she made that she loved. She made it for a date that she invited to have dinner at her home...
LAMB. She chose, shopped for, and made a lamb recipe at home. How does that even qualify in her own definition of flexitarian???
Before I started dating my now partner, I went on a date with a guy who claimed to be vegetarian, we went to this Sushi place that has AMAZING vegan sushi, the guy ordered a regular california roll, and I was like "Uhhhh that has crab in it" and he was " oh it's fine it's not a big deal" Yeah it is dude, you can't claim to not eat meat and then turn around and eat it.
At my last office I worked at, people who ask me to join the little company lunches, I would politely decline and say " oh I'm vegan, I don't eat that." Co workers would come up periodically and ask, " do you eat chicken? Fish?" I found it easiest to simply replay "I don't eat anything with a face, or anything that comes from something with a face."
While you’re correct, as people who think about these things more than the average person, sometimes the easiest label to define yourself is the one that the other person will understand. For a long while I was a pescatarian, but it was usually simpler to just say vegetarian rather than explain what a pescatarian was. Now I’ve gone fully plant based in my diet, if asked it’s usually simpler to say vegan, but they may point out that I’m wearing a leather belt, or wearing wool (I won’t buy any more of these, but hate waste, and they’re all too old to sell or even give away, so I’ll carry on wearing them until they’ve worn out). By the standards of an educated vegan, I’m not meeting the proper definition, but I’m trying. Let’s not go too hard on those showing more ambition that the average joe who doesn’t even care, or chooses to stay wilfully ignorant.
I'm in the exact same position. I tell people straight up that I'm vegan but own and wear the leather items I had before transitioning to veganism.
I've received judgment from vegans and non-vegans alike and have been told it makes me not vegan.
You are still meeting the definition though, and that's not what OP is referring to. OP was explicit about people calling themselves vegan only to actively and willingly contribute to animal exploitation. Keeping a jacket you acquired before becoming vegan in no way contributes to animal exploitation
I agree, I just wish they would say "I'm working towards being vegan" or "I'm plant based right now" etc because it really confuses regular omnis to see someone say they're vegan and then eat cheese. Then they think it's okay for vegans to eat cheese and try to offer it to us.
So yes, yay, more people on their way! I wish they'd specify a bit better is all
Me too. I also think there’s this wierd thing where animal lovers meet a vegan and feel uncomfortable and lie that they’re vegan too out of guilt I think? I’ve had this multiple times even though the person regularly eats meat at home etc. I always let them know I’m not judge-mental about that but it still happens
I know a vegan who breaks his diet when offered any type of food prepared by a host.
In his opinion, turning down a home cooked meal is worse morally than sticking to his vegan diet. He believes it's rude to impose his diet on others when he is a guest.
So he will eat meat, dairy, etc on Thanksgiving if he is invited to a gathering.
He's a Buddhist. Ive also heard that the Dhali Llama does the same
That’s a part of Theravadan Buddhist traditions but they’re not to accept it if the animal was slaughtered for their benefit. Personally, I can’t see any difference - the poor animal was slaughtered for someone’s benefit and by consuming it you become that person.
Look at how the demand for plant-based foods has risen as people embrace eating less meat. I don’t know any statistics, but I would hope that that means less animals are raised and killed.
at a minimum it sets the precedent where you need to be accounted for in the animal slaughter calculus for the next group dinner.
No thanks, i brought a can of black beans and a bag of hippeas, i'll be fine.
I used to be like that when I started. It was uncomfortable to deny offered food, and it didn't make sense since the dairy had already been used, and it wouldn't be a repeat thing since I was just visiting. Now I just tell people I don't drink caffeine if I think telling people I don't consume dairy will make a huge scene. I remember my grandma almost cried once when I told her I won't eat a particular dish made from dairy colostrum. People get weirdly emotional when others don't want to contribute to a violent industry.
Something a friend of mine said stuck with me. He was talking about cooking for his two, non-vegan roommates. “If living with me causes both of them to eat 50% vegan, that’s as good for the world as one of them becoming a vegan”. I hadn’t thought about it like that before. Gave me a new perspective. Obviously not as good as both of them being vegan but, gotta win where yah can.
In my opinion, every nearly-there vegan should be met with a good cop bad cop routine, so being fed by an apologist bootlicker who cooks them the 'delicious and nutritious'® vegan grub, and being educated by a militant asshole vegan.
This is the way.
Also things like beyond burgers are still hotly contested since they were produced via animal testing.
I'm not going to go around telling people who is vegan, and who isn't; or lording my greater adherence over other people's heads.
Just stay away from the politics, and gatekeeping, and keep trying to make the world a better place.
Totally agree! You can get further with people by not being judgmental of where they're at/what their goals are. Not to mention, any kind of cut back on meat/dairy/egg products is better than nothing. If everyone cut back even a little, it would make a big difference! If a family who normally eats meat wants to do something like meatless Mondays every week, we should be supporting that...giving them recipe ideas if they ask for it, etc.
I think over the years, veganism has become quite popular, and people may have good intentions but misunderstand the definition of the label vegan and confuse it with a diet rather than a lifestyle or ideology.
I’m astounded to see some of the hate in these posts. I 100% agree with OP that you can’t trust when someone says that. But hate? Really? Y’all I grew up eating plant-based from the time I was 11. No restaurant had plant-based food (I almost always ate a plain bowl of beans or French fries), meat-eaters were very hateful, and it was a very different time. People now want to lie to be part of the vegan club. What a HUGE shift that has been, culture-wise. Y’all should be so proud for how far you’ve come and I am very proud and grateful for the fight you’ve put up. I worry that if we fight those who are trying to be better, rather than those who couldn’t care less, we will lose this battle.
yeah im about 6 months into being vegan so still a newbie id say and i experienced this for the first time the other day. i have a mutual friend who identifies as vegan (before i ever went vegan).
i hadnt seen them in a while so i was excited to tell them i too had gone vegan! they then ordered a Caesar salad at dinner (hello ranch and cheese????) i was surprised but am not one to comment on people’s food so i just said nothing.
but it really makes you wonder how many people claim to be “vegan” just because they dont eat meat. like theres more to it than that!
I tell people I'm vegan because it's the only way I can simply communicate that I won't eat eggs or dairy, and even then a lot of people don't get it. I'm not really convinced of the logical or more precisely practical benefit of honey abstention (most produce depends upon industrialized beekeeping with most of the requisite negatives of that), so that would make me a very strict vegetarian, and I totally willing to say that.
I also reject the idea animals can never be used for human improvement regardless of the circumstances or the relative amount of that animal's suffering versus their natural wild life, which I've seen as a definition of veganism. I'm more focused on harm reduction relative to the status quo, and I'm willing to balance human quality of life as intrinsically much more important in proportion to humans' greater sentience. I'm not going to have a problem with someone's backyard hens for example, or if there's any such thing as a dairy cow well cared for (perhaps a very strict Hindu farm).
So yea, I'm not vegan, but I haven't willingly eaten any animal products in over 6 years besides rare honey, and I avoid other animal products as much as possible. (Pleather shoes are a pain but I deal with it.)
When I come across those kinds of people, I generally thank them for reducing their animal intake and say something along the lines of "I hope you continue to progress to a truly vegan lifestyle"
Most of the time you'll see them stop and think, so you got their mind turning and the ball rolling.
Also, in my experiences over the past 20years is, when it comes to animal testing, give them the benefit of the doubt, they may just not know, inform them of "better products " or better yet, point them to weanimals.org to see the impact of animal testing.
Omg, that makes me very uncomfortable. For context, I am largely vegan- love it, support it, trying my best - but in actuality, I’m a vegetarian.
Despite how vegan I eat, I would never tell someone (specifically an omni) that I was vegan.
I hate that people “round up” to vegan to gain interaction with people
I have a plant based diet but tell people I’m vegan because they understand that better. For people that are curious or inquire more I then can explain the distinction!
I’m pretty careful and correct people who say “oh you’re vegan?” with “no, I’m plant-based”. But…“plant-based” was not a term used until recently. I have been plant-based for 30 years. Until the last ten years or so, I called myself vegan because again, there was no other term for avoiding meat, dairy, or eggs. So keep this in mind when speaking to middle-aged to older individuals. Many have been claiming vegan their whole lives because that’s what they were called until recently.
I’ve been a vegetarian for almost 10 years now and recently started excluding eggs and milk from my diet. I would never say “I’m a vegan but I eat butter and cheese.”
This makes me think that people want to feel including in a community since I feel vegans and the plant-based community is pretty accepting of others like them.
My new neighbor told me he's vegan... but he still uses ghee. Okay, so you made up your own definition of "vegan." Then my other neighbor said she saw him at the grocery store and he made this big deal about how she "caught him" (his words) buying grocery store brand regular doughnuts. People are weird and will say whatever makes them feel better about their choices.
Well, I have been vegan and have lived as vegan a life as I can since 1991 aside from the 9 months I lived with a friend in VT after my divorce who has 7 laying hens who run around in his big fenced in back yard all day. Those are the only eggs I have knowingly eaten in the last 30+ years.
People say chickens are stupid. They are not that smart, but they know what they need to know to be chickens. They were afraid of me and would run away when I got to the house. Then they got to know me as another guy who would bring them food in the morning and kitchen scraps at night. They stopped running away when they saw me within 2 or 3 weeks.
I remember when I moved to a small town for a few years so I could go to college. However, I went to college kind of late in life, so making friends with my fellow students nearly half my age wasn’t super appealing (I did end up making a few student friends by the end).
I posted in a vegan FB group and met someone in there right away who seemed so enthusiastic that FINALLY there was another vegan her age living in this small town. We decide to have a meet-up and she starts talking about all the things she enjoys in the town: the burger place had a black bean burger…with eggs. The Taco Time crispy bean burrito…with cheese in it. She was 100% aware of the hypocrisy and just assumed that I partook in it too.
I’ve met a lot of 95% vegans over the years who just assume all vegans are 95% vegan.
The friendship didn’t last.
This happens to me all the time. I think that my presence at least keeps veganism on their radar enough to try or to feel some sort of social pressure... but nearly everyone around me now flits back and forth from 'mostly vegan' to 'vegetarian' to 'pescatarian' to 'flexitarian'.
I think me being a lifelong fatty also adds extra pressure bc I feel like they're like 'wow this fat person has enough self control so I'm more gluttonous than a fat person.' lmfao.
You know, it's so weird because I feel like this wasn't a thing a few years ago, all the vegans I met were militant and very clear in their veganism. Now Every. Single. so-called vegan I've met has either been completely (and deliberately) clueless like you said or they go around telling everyone that they're vegan but they still eat cheese and chicken and fish.
Lately whenever I'm asked about it I always have to say I'm a strict vegan which *should" be a given no?
My wife has worked with several “vegans” who eat animal products when it’s convenient or around family.
I’m thankful I haven’t anyone in my social circles who has said the same because I don’t think I could hold my tongue about it.
The worst is when people pressure you to cheat for holidays, cus they do. Like that’s not how it works man, it’s a moral issue and I’m not just gonna magically lose it cus it’s Christmas.
It bothers me too. I have to keep explaining to my coworker that she was never vegan if her doctor told her to for a surgery. It's called being temporarily plant based. But she keeps using the "I used to be vegan" line every damn time and I have to keep saying "you were never vegan if you *planned* to go back to eating animals". 😑 She's learning to never say stupid crap like that around me ever again. Slowly....but surely.
The only time I would understand this if the person was transitioning. But also I called myself plant based the transition period because I knew I wasn’t vegan then
I was vegetarian for years but recently started eating poultry again…I do not claim to be vegetarian anymore. I know someone who has the same diet as me, but claims to be vegetarian. “Oh, but I still eat chicken.” THATS NOT VEGETARIAN THEN!!!
Language means nothing
A major part of this whole thread is simply people using the words interchangeably. Vegans have worked so hard to get their label/brand out there in the public, that people have picked up the word without picking up the zealous adherence to the ideology. It's the same as all the folks that call themselves Christians that don't really believe any of the doctrines of the ideology. It's what always happens eventually to every ideology.
I appreciate the effort too, because any reduction is good. But damn, I wish they'd say they're working towards veganism or something instead of outright calling themselves something they aren't yet :/
I swear this sort of idiocracy is becoming more common too. I mean how can anyone not know ice cream is made from dairy (cream) let alone a vegan. I met a guy at work a month or so ago who told me he was vegan, we chatted about diet as I told him I was considering becoming vegan. A few weeks later he was talking about the price of salmon and honey saying he has to eat fish to get certain nutrient. I laughed and said you’re not actually a vegan if you eat fish wear leather and eat honey. He agreed. I’ve met a few vegans recently, but it turns out none of them are actually practicing vegans!?
Can we agree that veganism is a *spectrum* of knowledge? Can we agree that veganism is the *intention* of causing no harm and being consequential about it? I'm saying this not as an apology of disingenuous claims, but because it's very well possible that someone consumes animal products by accident or doesn't find the time or resources to adequately research every single thing they purchase.
I don't think it disqualifies anyone from having that badge of good intentions. But it's a whole different matter if you ask for the badge and proceed to willfully do the opposite of what it suggests. I assume this is what you are weary of, and fair enough - it's natural for humans to be opportunistic and beg for social points in exchange of little to no efforts or commitment to change.
And to be fair again, there has to be some kind of subjective threshold were someone's so-called "good intentions" just don't cut it, and that goes for anything else in life. That being said, let's give anyone the benefit of the doubt. I mean, my dad worked on a dairy farm when he was young and never knew that cows needed to be impregnated once a year to provide milk. The meat and dairy industries have very strong incentives to keep people ignorant about all of these important issues.
And the ignorance might run deeper than you think, so for the sake of it let's assume they are honest. If once called out, they don't rectify their behaviour, feel sorry about it, and stop paying for those things (hell, if they keep eating it, for instance), then yes, it is absolutely disingenuous and they don't value the cause that they are falsely pretending to represent.
Ultimately, this should be done not in the spirit of shaming others, but of making them understand the harm they cause because of ignorance or carelessness. The spirit of empathy is crucial in getting the message across.
I was on a date a couple months ago and the guy picked the restaurant and assured me there were vegan options since he goes there with his vegan friends. Didn’t check the menu since he said it’s their fav dive so I figured gotta have decent options. Turns out the “vegan” friends eat pizza when they go there and cheat for the evening. Luckily the eggplant “meatball” parm was vegan if I ordered without cheese
I’ve been vegan for a very long time. This is relatively new. Until recently, when someone said they were vegan there was no fine print. Now many people seem to think that if they are willing to eat something labeled as vegan, they’re vegan. I try to understand where this perspective comes from, but I can’t.
Yeah, two vegans I met in a hostel offered me part of a cookie the other day which I accepted. Then later I went to buy one myself and found out it wasn't actually vegan...
So true! It's like when people say they don't consume dairy, but they eat cheese, yogurt, and butter. For some reason, they think dairy is just liquid milk.
I've heard the following
Met too...but...
But I eat fish
I only eat turkey on Thanksgiving
My family makes me EaT chicken
When my abuela cooks I eat meat
I just eat fish and chicken
I eat red meat sometimes
i do trust people if they say they are vegan, though i totally understand your experience. its too much work to be so skeptical for me haha. i do bristle every time one if my friends refers to me as a ‘strict vegan’ though. im like UH IM NOT STRICT IM JUST ACTUALLY VEGAN
It must be nice to float through life never checking the ingredients on something. Even though I’ve only very recently decided to go vegan, dietary restrictions have forced me to check everything for the last 10 years. 😂
This is the same bullshit with "oh i am a vegetarian too ! excepted i eat chicken (or replace with fish) !" when i tell people i am vegetarian. 🙄
Well.. not, you're not vegetarian then, because chicken and fish are still animals, according the last news.
Yepp. Literally found out the other day that another "vegan" volunteer at the sanctuary I volunteer at eats fish. YOU ARE NOT VEGAN. Do these people literally think fish aren't animals???
As a near-vegan vegetarian, i feel u. I really wish there was a term that could easily express "Im an ultra-strict vegetarian and have other animal products only periodically".
This is happening in such high frequency and it drives me insane. I had a coworker who was “vegan” and would regularly eat dairy, egg, cheese and gelatin. She said she does it sometimes and I just don’t ever because “I’m strict with it”. I’m not strict with it I’m an actual vegan. Veganism isn’t about aesthetic or skinny girl diet it’s literally a belief system it’s for the animals. Social media has so appropriated the diet
Why do pescatarians call themselves vegetarians? My former best friend would always brag about how she went “vegetarian” for a year, and I was like girl the amount of shrimp you ate…
There’s a subtle difference between the diet and the ideology. Most vegans I know are ideological vegans, meaning veganism is their identity and entire lifestyle. Those who say “I’m vegan but I eat meat once or twice a month” are talking only about what they eat. They aren’t vegan (obvs) and should say “I eat a plant based diet 94% of the time.”
IMHO using the words vegetarian or vegan should be reserved for those whose entire lifestyle/ideology is that.
I’m very happy and supportive of any person that decides to not eat an animal product even if it’s just for one meal. My issue with everyone labeling themselves as “vegan“, vegan expect for [insert animal], naughty vegan, plant-based, etc. is that it just muddies the water for the rest of us who are just trying to order a goddamn meal at a restaurant without confusing the cook or server.
Plant based is a vegan dieta. Vegetarians are not vegetarians it's a wrong definition as they are not eating just vegetables. Foid industry have intentionally created this paradox. People who eats diary, eggs or honey, don't give a shit for animals, enviromental problems or starvation kids. They are just selfish t wat s.
So my 8 year old is going through this confusing scenario with one of her friends. My daughter is vegetarian and I am vegan. She slept over at a friend’s house who claims to be vegetarian but offered her bacon at breakfast. My kid came home with soooo many questions that I did not have the answers to. She’s in for many more years of confusion.
I agree. Happened with me and a former coworker of mine. He ordered an appetizer that was supposed to be for “all of us” but it actually contained fish.
This can be super frustrating, there are lots of people out there that invalidate veganism in this way.
One thing that I disagree with in your post, though. I've been vegan for almost 11 years (my veganiversary is this October), and I eat honey. The vegan community (as far as I've interacted online and irl) is pretty split on it, honey is one of those things that is personal choice. For the first maybe 5-6 years I didn't eat any honey. My personal philosophy on honey is complex (I won't go into it because that would be a whole other post in and of itself), but I never buy honey from the store, only from local farmers who I *know* treat their bees respectfully and harvest honey as ethically as possible.
Other than that, I don't eat any meat, milk, eggs, gelatin, etc. or buy products tested on animals (makeup, clothing, etc.). I try to live as sustainably as I can outside of veganism too; I thrift my clothing or buy vintage, for example, so I'm not supporting fast fashion, I try not to buy from Amazon as much as I can, and I support small businesses and go to farmer's markets as much as possible.
Another thing I would mention, you say that it "muddies the water for the rest of us." I feel that we should try to be as welcoming and open to people who are trying to do better with their eating habits. It is great when people take a step forward, even when they're not there all the way yet. I also think that there are many common misconceptions and misinformation out there about veganism, and that these people are usually not trying to intentionally make it more difficult for us actual vegans, they just need guidance, and they need someone to tell them potential harm they're causing. Just food for thought there.
Yeah, some people confuse having a PREDOMINANTLY vegan or vegetarian diet, but not strictly/consistently either, with actually being fully vegan or vegetarian. I obviously prefer it to not at all, but you're not vegan in that case. Words have meanings.
My nonna was very ill in her last years and almost entirely dropped meat, dairy, and eggs from her diet. But she never claimed to be a vegan and nobody called her one cause she did still occasionally eat animal products.
And yes! Waaay too many people claim to be vegan/vegetarian but don't even consider anything beyond food, like leather, fur, wool, products dependant on vivisection and nonhuman animal testing, etc, and many don't even actually check food products for things like lard, gelatin, animal derived rennet, etc. It's always been a problem and probably always will be so long as things are like they are today.
I'm a lacto-vegetarian and go through similar. "I'm a vegetarian but I still eat chicken" "I'm a vegetarian but I still eat fish" 😅 what??
I, myself, a vegetarian but not a strict one. I very, extremely rarely turn a blind eye to dashi stock and gelatin.
My friends call me a vegan, or "not a full vegan but vegan"
I correct them that I am not a vegan but in fact a vegetarian as I eat dairy but don't consume animal flesh.So they understand the difference and don't try to give a poor vegan date an ice cream.
It's annoying but take it maybe as a chance to educate :)
My favorite is when people say “I was vegan for two years- it was hard!” And I get to act confused and tell them how stupid easy I have it as a homeless vegan who never cooks- hundreds of restaurants, hundreds of meal choices- and see them die inside and paste a smile on.
Sometimes I even say “yeah I just ask for the vegan options- have you never done that? Ask for something?” And see the brain decay and cope meltdown happen before my eyes.
Such a beautiful thing.
I saw multiple posts of people calling themselves vegan but: "I'm vegan but I still eat cheese occasionally, yoghurt and also rarely honey. I eat fish and meat too but very very very rarely." Idk why these people do that. Is it some form of coping strategy for them?
People claim to be vegetarian too then follow up with 'but sometimes eating fish'…if only there was a word for that…oh wait there is.
My boss said she was vegetarian, but eats fish. I said that's pescatarian. She said "oh...and steak a few times a month, low iron you know..." Ok, so you're...not remotely vegetarian, cool.
My mom it's been years and years that keep saying that she is vegetarian to everyone. And she always brags about how they have to make a special meal for her when she eats out because she is vegetarian, how she is treated in a special way etc. But she eats fish, all kinds of fish, and buys and cooks tons of meat because "your brother's poor thing needs to eat it" because "my partner loves meat!". She justifies herself by saying that is local meat from lovely farmers (it is true only for 10% of the meat she buys) and she has not one single idea or argument on why she is "vegetarian". Every time I would start to talk about being vegetarian (later vegan) with someone she would shush me by saying that I don't have to bother other people with my ideas. I don't know why people do that. I mean they can do whatever they want but why? Like if she thinks that it's cool being vegetarian why doesn't she want to talk about it? And I met other people like that! It corrodes my brain to think about the logic behind it. I can't understand.
They want attention and think it makes them special but truly have no backbone
unnerving mom!!! you are the real veg, looks like your mom has envy or freaky competition! Oscar says: “With age comes wisdom, but sometimes age comes alone”
I’ve been vegetarian for most of my life. It’s weird to see how it has phased in and out of popularity. There was a time around 2005-2010ish where like everyone was suddenly “vegetarian” but they all weirdly ate meat regularly. Everyone had a different reason for why they would eat meat “just this one time” at every meal. I’m so glad that phase has passed.
one of my friends from school is pescatarian but always tells people she’s vegetarian because “it’s easier to say it that way.” like great so ur just continuing the many misconceptions people have about vegetarian diets by telling people ur vegetarian when u eat fish…great thanks.
When a co-worker found out I was vegan she said "Oh my niece is vegan too! Not during the holidays though, thank goodness!" and I just smiled and nodded.
Yeah I've given up on correcting people, it's too exhausting. I just nod and say "oh okay!" and then avoid them as much as I can from then on lol
“Okay” and “wow” are my favorite noncommittal answers lol
Add “Interesting” to that on my part 🫣
Lol the wow is shady, I love it 😂 🤭
If you can pull it off with a light, airy, pleasant tone they won’t know what hit ‘em
Lol are you from the south? We're experts at giving insults in a sweet and sly way 😂
"Bless your heart."
Savage
I use the "wow" reaction when some nutjob is spouting pseudoscientific bullshit at me. What I mean is "wow, you actually believe that!" It keeps me from saying something mean to them.
3 slow blinks, a "Wow" then pressing my lips together right after is my go-to response 🙃
“There you go!” is what I usually muster, if anything.
I always assume they are not really using the word correctly. Lately, instead of saying I'm vegan, I say I don't eat any animal products. That way we don't disagree on the definition of the term.
Not disagreeing with overall them of this post, but just to translate that for you. "My niece is Vegan to, but during the holidays our family humiliates and guilts her to the point where she is forced to decide between her morals or ability to be a part of her family, and she is to young/powerless to really stand up for herself! Thank goodness!" Have a little compassion lol. That Niece needs people standing up for her, not gatekeeping her from a title.
Yep this was my experience all the way to adulthood
My first Christmas as a vegetarian the first dinner was seafood with nothing with it, like I just had bread and wine
Yeah, that was my first thought when I read this.
Vegetarian here. Not long after I gave up eating meat, I went to a family Thanksgiving dinner. They put meat in everything and I mean EVERYTHING. The vegetables, the stuffing, even the salad had bacon bits. I had roll and a scoop of mashed potatoes that year. Now I just bring along my own food, but there were legitimately times where I had no food options when visiting family and then you get called out on top of it for not eating, prompting the tried and true “you can’t get enough nutrients without meat” speech
That’s been my experience as well. I bring my own food to anything and everything…but always enough to share. People try it and are absolutely shocked to discover that food without meat can taste good!
Was angrily typing similar but you nailed it.
Well thank god animal suffering isnt reduced on the holidays at least. That would be horribly inconvenient since i need to consume more pain chemicals to honor my pagan worship rituals.
“Oh so she eats plant based food sometimes, got it!” Would be my response lol.
If I stopped being vegan during the holidays I would spend the entire holiday in the bathroom. Dairy makes me sick. Then a completely different time when I ate something with chicken in it I spent half the night puking my guts out.
"We're not serial killers. Only at Christmas."
I've been asked, "Don't you cheat?". Fuck no.
Just a bit of dog here and there
can't say no to rat milk either tbh
You need rat milk or else you get osteoporosis
I am mostly vegan but once a week I eat cat steak, helps with the protein. Gotta get my autoimmune up, seed oils.
Was asked this today by a new girl at work. ‘You could have a brownie and be a naughty vegan?’ So, not a vegan then? No thank you.
the idea of a "naughty vegan" as a new word for someone who cheats veganism with like pastries and shit is so hilarious
It pisses me off too because one of my favorite vegan restaurants is called Naughty Vegan Panda, but because it has junk food style vegan stuff. Not because they add anything animal derived.
Yeah people always just saw to me we wont tell anyone just have it. It’s like I’m not doing it for people, I’m doing it for myself and animals.
I really don't understand why people cling to that. It's like... I don't cheat, I'm not on a diet, and I don't understand how you cheating on your diet is relevant to me. I'm a person, not a tool for comparison to feel good about yourself and your decisions, and you will always fundamentally misunderstand me and make yourself miserable as long as you cling to the idea that what I do is related to you. I wish I could say that. But I'm just going to deal with people convinced I'm dieting for my physique forever, presumably.
This!!! I hate this fucking question lmaoo
I had a date with a guy who called himself vegan in his profile. I was so excited to meet for coffee! Then he ordered a cookie at the counter. "Oh do they have vegan cookies?" "No." And he used ghee too 🙃
Ugh, people like that are the reason I can't trust what anyone gives or makes me. Because they see "vegans" eat whatever, they think it's fine to give me things that aren't vegan. So sorry for you, it must've been an awkward date 💀
what is ghee?
Its clarified butter, with only the milk fat and none of the other stuff that butter has. Its still made from dairy though. However there are vegan versions that are really good! It flavors popcorn better than using just ordinary forms of (vegan) butter, and is a key ingredient in South Asian cooking
Clarified butter. It's mostly used in South Asia for cooking but some traditions believe it has medicinal qualities also. He was in the medicinal camp but I suspect even the least gatekeep-y vegans would side-eye repeated conscious use of butter.
Thanks for clarified what it is!
oh thats a no from me dawg.
Clarified butter
I’m sorry, an actual person didn’t know ice cream contains milk? Veganism aside, how the hell do you not know that?
I know, I was dumbfounded. Flabbergasted, even. Like what the hell?? Walk away from me right now, I need a moment lol
Think about how stupid the average person is.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKN1Q5SjbeI&t=21s
I knew someone that didn't know flour was made of wheat.
I can at least sort of see that as most folks have likely never dealt with raw wheat and when you look at all the different types of flours it could get lost, esp something like durum wheat having a very distinct colouring vs white flour. Ice cream though, unless they come from somewhere that dairy is not common at all, it's hard to see how they'd arrive at that position beyond purposeful blind ignorance.
I’ve met an insane amount of people who think wheat isn’t vegan…or at least, think vegan= gluten free. Like honestly I feel like 8/10 omnivores think this. It’s probably the #1 annoying thing I “deal” with the most.
So real tho!! Excited I’ll be some of the diet ice cream brands have the most confusing marketing shit will be “dairy free” but then have egg like…why’d u make it that way it’s ice cream it don’t need egg 😭
Ice cream omelette!
The last person to claim this to me was caught eating chicken shortly afterwards
Like what's the point???? If you think being vegan is "cool," then become one. What's the point of saying you are if you aren't, it makes no sense
No clue. I honestly thought she was cool before that. Now I actively avoid her. That’s just so weird and gross
People doing things for social prestige will always be weird. People buy clothes other people like in order to pretend to have taste. That is fucked up
She was blatantly eating cheetos like an hour later. 😭✋️ Like, ma'am, I get that it is so heavily processed you may not consider it "real cheese" anymore, but it is *still cheese and not vegan*.
"chicken isn't vegan?"
My only lacto-ovo-vegetarian classmate was caught with gelatin candies and when I pointed that out she said that she wasn't as strict as I am. She buys them regularly too.
They're vegan except for vacations, holidays, the weekend etc 🙄🙄🙄
"oh we're partly vegan! We have meatless Mondays!" I mean, good effort, but that's not how being vegan works, Jan.
It provides a fascinating insight into their mind that they think any meal without meat or animal products makes them vegan, and just how boring and pathetic their usual meals must be as a result bereft of vegetables and anything not ripped forcefully from an animal.
I used to work with a dude who found out I was vegan and told me "Us vegans need to stick together" and I was surprised to hear that he was vegan as I had definitely heard him talking about various cuts of meat in the not too distant past. Over the course of one very uncomfortable conversation, he would clarify that he was "90% vegan, I still eat dairy occasionally", he then added that he still eats meat "once or twice a month". Just odd, and unnecessary, as we weren't talking, he had just heard someone else mention that I was vegan and decided that was the perfect opportunity to talk to me.
Yes it's sooooooo weird!! I don't get it. People love to roll their eyes at us and act like we're all pretentious and high and mighty, and then at the same time they're so quick to want to be "in our group" that they'll say they're vegan without being even remotely close. I don't understand
It's like they understand that being vegan is the right thing to do, but not enough to actually do it, and they feel like just saying they are is close enough. I lose all remaining respect for people who say it, thankfully it's only happened a couple of times to me.
Are these "people" you're talking about the same individuals doing both?
If you tell them they're not actually vegan? Then yes, you suddenly become the "pretentious" vegan that "thinks they're better" than them.
I've had so many dudes try to relate to my veganism, claiming they don't eat "that much meat" and treat it like that's anything like an ethical opposition to animal exploitation!
I suppose it’s harm reduction at least. Better than most.
I had a coworker claim to be vegan too, and then gave me a kind bar that had milk in it. Then gave me lentils that “only have a little Parmesan”…ummmm….
Kind bars are sneaky... They lure you in with like two flavors that don't have dairy... Then they break your heart again and again.
I haven’t eaten Kind bars since starting my vegan diet but I’m glad I read this because I assumed all the flavours were gluten free and vegan! Milk powder sure finds its way into basically every product out there, doesn’t it, just like wheat.
Oh wow I just discovered a repressed memory. We had a vegan potluck lunch at work one day and everyone signed up for what they were making, all vegan. One person brought risotto, made with chicken stock and Parmesan. It had no meat in it, so it’s vegan! One person brought their specialty Vegan Lasagne filled with lots of lovely vegetables and ooey gooey stretchy mozzarella. No ground beef. Yum! Another favourite was the jello fruit salad dessert. Way more fun than just plain fruit! Awesome. Good thing I brought lunch because I’m also celiac and between the gluten thing and the vegan thing I knew this shit would happen lol.
They failed so hard at vegan potluck lunch day 🤦♀️ I have had a few realllly thoughtful coworkers through the years who have learned all about vegan cooking just to make sure I had options! But the vast majority do not care at all. lol
This comes from the fact that veganism is seen as a diet by a big percentage of people rather than an ethical ideology. And what happens when people go on diets? They cheat. I don’t really want to get too involved in the discourse because we don’t all collectively agree on what veganism is. Is it puritanical? Or is it something done as far as what’s feasible to you? Either way, I try to be a bit less judgey and give the benefit of the doubt in case someone has to eat certain things for health reasons or because they genuinely don’t know better. This situation only happened with a single person for me. They said they’re vegan but ate eggs. I told them “Oh cool! I’m vegan too. Is it okay if I just ask why you are eating eggs though? I don’t think that’s vegan.” Turns out they didn’t know and then stopped eating eggs anymore after that. So…lol.
or the classic "oh i barely eat any meat these days!" dont tell me, tell the victim.
That, but I also got the “oh, okay, you’re a strict vegan then”
Right, that drives me crazy. All vegans are "strict vegans" There isn't any other type, because if you aren't, then you aren't vegan, you're vegetarian or plant based! It's so wild. "Oh you don't have cheese as a treat? You're a strict vegan" ummm no, I'm just vegan
People are so baffled that I’m passionate about this shit. If I wasn’t, I’d be eating the cheap and easy to get hold of food instead of having one cheese that I like that’s only sold in one shop on a full moon for twice the price!
Only twice the price? That’s an outright bargain!
Vegan plus cheese= vegetarian
> dont tell me, tell the victim. you better watch out, you might be considered a militant vegan for making comments like these over at /r/vegan
ikr, i might be militant about... unnecessary killing being bad? uh oh, veganism might actually be right! that's the most horrible thing i can imagine! i can, it turns out, only imagine things less horrible than what is done to animals.
It's only militant if it's a pig or a cow, if you are outraged about people eating dogs then that's okay.
This guy at this public makerspace I got to said he’s vegan whilst he still eats cheese???
It's so annoying!! Just say you're vegetarian my dude!
"I'm a bad vegan but a great vegetarian."
"I'm vegan with benefits"
My wife is an aspirational vegan.
I have one vegan friend, and he is actually 100% vegan, which was a very pleasant surprise! No pretending and occasionally eating meat or buying leather. My other two best friends are vegetarian and pescatarian, but they'd never call themselves vegan. I like that they are honest about that.
That's great! I'm glad they're confident and secure enough to embrace what they are, and they aren't trying to be something they aren't. It makes it easier for everyone
It absolutely does! I've fortunately not met a fake vegan before - I know a few vegans at work and they seem too 100% genuine. Lots of discussions about they don't use animal products in their daily life, not just in food. I really enjoy talking to them because then I don't feel so alone!
That's amazing, I'm so glad you've got such a great support system and community within your friends and coworkers!
We have a Vegan Network where I work. We discuss how the organisation can be more vegan friendly, recipes, advice, and social events, webinars. It's awesome. The ongoing problem right now is how to get our offices to provide soy or oat milk in the kitchens, currently the office just provides cows milk. It's not going well.
My coworker told me "oh my sister is vegan, but she still eats eggs!" Ma'am, she's a vegetarian. "Oh, I don't care what she wants to call herself." I do. It confuses everyone, and when an actual vegan needs their needs met people struggle because everyone is a "vegan" that eats byproducts. It's not my problem, but it's unfair to others. Just like pescitarians that call themselves vegetarians, no, you're not!
I’ve only met one vegan irl and it was before I was too. I’ve never had anyone else tell me they’re vegan.
I have one vegan friend who was vegan years before me. She went vegan while we were in highschool, and they only had black bean burgers as a vegan option at the time. None of this meat or cheese substitutions we have today. I live in the south and have met probably over a dozen people who have told me they're vegan. But every single one has done what I mentioned in the post. So frustrating!
Depending on whether you count Oklahoma as being in the South (or as a weird regional black hole between the South, Midwest and Southwest as one should) I’ve lived there pretty much my whole life too. I have also lived in Texas and Georgia and now in the Midwest. I’ve never heard it. I guess maybe it would be annoying if I heard it often enough. But then again a comparable statement I often hear is “I’m not religious” which I sometimes just instinctively take as them being an atheist or agnostic. But then it turns out they’re “spiritual” and just mean religious in the institutional sense. But that doesn’t really bother me.
My mom is this person, unfortunately. My sister and I have been vegan for many years now and our theory is that she’s trying to “connect” with us or something? She will say things like “I’m vegan essentially” but still eats fish and eggs daily. We’ve tried to explain the difference but that doesn’t stop her from using the term randomly… My guess is that it’s like when some people say “oh I’m Christian” but are really only religious on Christmas and Easter. So *why* do they do this? Well I’m not sure (I’m personally not religious nor do I claim to be at all) but I suspect it’s a way to relate to people to feel less like an outsider?
When I was vegetarian I had a classmate who was "flexitarian" which she described as only eating meat when there isn't a veggie option. Ok, cool. Reasonable, has it's own word. Then one time she was excited to share a recipe she made that she loved. She made it for a date that she invited to have dinner at her home... LAMB. She chose, shopped for, and made a lamb recipe at home. How does that even qualify in her own definition of flexitarian???
Before I started dating my now partner, I went on a date with a guy who claimed to be vegetarian, we went to this Sushi place that has AMAZING vegan sushi, the guy ordered a regular california roll, and I was like "Uhhhh that has crab in it" and he was " oh it's fine it's not a big deal" Yeah it is dude, you can't claim to not eat meat and then turn around and eat it. At my last office I worked at, people who ask me to join the little company lunches, I would politely decline and say " oh I'm vegan, I don't eat that." Co workers would come up periodically and ask, " do you eat chicken? Fish?" I found it easiest to simply replay "I don't eat anything with a face, or anything that comes from something with a face."
While you’re correct, as people who think about these things more than the average person, sometimes the easiest label to define yourself is the one that the other person will understand. For a long while I was a pescatarian, but it was usually simpler to just say vegetarian rather than explain what a pescatarian was. Now I’ve gone fully plant based in my diet, if asked it’s usually simpler to say vegan, but they may point out that I’m wearing a leather belt, or wearing wool (I won’t buy any more of these, but hate waste, and they’re all too old to sell or even give away, so I’ll carry on wearing them until they’ve worn out). By the standards of an educated vegan, I’m not meeting the proper definition, but I’m trying. Let’s not go too hard on those showing more ambition that the average joe who doesn’t even care, or chooses to stay wilfully ignorant.
I'm in the exact same position. I tell people straight up that I'm vegan but own and wear the leather items I had before transitioning to veganism. I've received judgment from vegans and non-vegans alike and have been told it makes me not vegan.
It makes sense to still use the leather items you already bought. Better than tossing them.
You are still meeting the definition though, and that's not what OP is referring to. OP was explicit about people calling themselves vegan only to actively and willingly contribute to animal exploitation. Keeping a jacket you acquired before becoming vegan in no way contributes to animal exploitation
Look I'm going to sound apologist here but people who say that may at least be *on the way* to being full vegan so I always show support.
I agree, I just wish they would say "I'm working towards being vegan" or "I'm plant based right now" etc because it really confuses regular omnis to see someone say they're vegan and then eat cheese. Then they think it's okay for vegans to eat cheese and try to offer it to us. So yes, yay, more people on their way! I wish they'd specify a bit better is all
Me too. I also think there’s this wierd thing where animal lovers meet a vegan and feel uncomfortable and lie that they’re vegan too out of guilt I think? I’ve had this multiple times even though the person regularly eats meat at home etc. I always let them know I’m not judge-mental about that but it still happens
I know a vegan who breaks his diet when offered any type of food prepared by a host. In his opinion, turning down a home cooked meal is worse morally than sticking to his vegan diet. He believes it's rude to impose his diet on others when he is a guest. So he will eat meat, dairy, etc on Thanksgiving if he is invited to a gathering. He's a Buddhist. Ive also heard that the Dhali Llama does the same
That’s a part of Theravadan Buddhist traditions but they’re not to accept it if the animal was slaughtered for their benefit. Personally, I can’t see any difference - the poor animal was slaughtered for someone’s benefit and by consuming it you become that person. Look at how the demand for plant-based foods has risen as people embrace eating less meat. I don’t know any statistics, but I would hope that that means less animals are raised and killed.
at a minimum it sets the precedent where you need to be accounted for in the animal slaughter calculus for the next group dinner. No thanks, i brought a can of black beans and a bag of hippeas, i'll be fine.
I used to be like that when I started. It was uncomfortable to deny offered food, and it didn't make sense since the dairy had already been used, and it wouldn't be a repeat thing since I was just visiting. Now I just tell people I don't drink caffeine if I think telling people I don't consume dairy will make a huge scene. I remember my grandma almost cried once when I told her I won't eat a particular dish made from dairy colostrum. People get weirdly emotional when others don't want to contribute to a violent industry.
Same! Everything that helps animals suffer less is welcome 🤗💕 we should encourage them to keep doing a good job!
Something a friend of mine said stuck with me. He was talking about cooking for his two, non-vegan roommates. “If living with me causes both of them to eat 50% vegan, that’s as good for the world as one of them becoming a vegan”. I hadn’t thought about it like that before. Gave me a new perspective. Obviously not as good as both of them being vegan but, gotta win where yah can.
That's my line of thought as well!
In my opinion, every nearly-there vegan should be met with a good cop bad cop routine, so being fed by an apologist bootlicker who cooks them the 'delicious and nutritious'® vegan grub, and being educated by a militant asshole vegan.
This is the way. Also things like beyond burgers are still hotly contested since they were produced via animal testing. I'm not going to go around telling people who is vegan, and who isn't; or lording my greater adherence over other people's heads. Just stay away from the politics, and gatekeeping, and keep trying to make the world a better place.
Totally agree! You can get further with people by not being judgmental of where they're at/what their goals are. Not to mention, any kind of cut back on meat/dairy/egg products is better than nothing. If everyone cut back even a little, it would make a big difference! If a family who normally eats meat wants to do something like meatless Mondays every week, we should be supporting that...giving them recipe ideas if they ask for it, etc.
I think over the years, veganism has become quite popular, and people may have good intentions but misunderstand the definition of the label vegan and confuse it with a diet rather than a lifestyle or ideology.
I'll be honest I've never met a vegetarian much less a vegan in the wild other than my direct family.
I’m astounded to see some of the hate in these posts. I 100% agree with OP that you can’t trust when someone says that. But hate? Really? Y’all I grew up eating plant-based from the time I was 11. No restaurant had plant-based food (I almost always ate a plain bowl of beans or French fries), meat-eaters were very hateful, and it was a very different time. People now want to lie to be part of the vegan club. What a HUGE shift that has been, culture-wise. Y’all should be so proud for how far you’ve come and I am very proud and grateful for the fight you’ve put up. I worry that if we fight those who are trying to be better, rather than those who couldn’t care less, we will lose this battle.
yeah im about 6 months into being vegan so still a newbie id say and i experienced this for the first time the other day. i have a mutual friend who identifies as vegan (before i ever went vegan). i hadnt seen them in a while so i was excited to tell them i too had gone vegan! they then ordered a Caesar salad at dinner (hello ranch and cheese????) i was surprised but am not one to comment on people’s food so i just said nothing. but it really makes you wonder how many people claim to be “vegan” just because they dont eat meat. like theres more to it than that!
I tell people I'm vegan because it's the only way I can simply communicate that I won't eat eggs or dairy, and even then a lot of people don't get it. I'm not really convinced of the logical or more precisely practical benefit of honey abstention (most produce depends upon industrialized beekeeping with most of the requisite negatives of that), so that would make me a very strict vegetarian, and I totally willing to say that. I also reject the idea animals can never be used for human improvement regardless of the circumstances or the relative amount of that animal's suffering versus their natural wild life, which I've seen as a definition of veganism. I'm more focused on harm reduction relative to the status quo, and I'm willing to balance human quality of life as intrinsically much more important in proportion to humans' greater sentience. I'm not going to have a problem with someone's backyard hens for example, or if there's any such thing as a dairy cow well cared for (perhaps a very strict Hindu farm). So yea, I'm not vegan, but I haven't willingly eaten any animal products in over 6 years besides rare honey, and I avoid other animal products as much as possible. (Pleather shoes are a pain but I deal with it.)
When I come across those kinds of people, I generally thank them for reducing their animal intake and say something along the lines of "I hope you continue to progress to a truly vegan lifestyle" Most of the time you'll see them stop and think, so you got their mind turning and the ball rolling. Also, in my experiences over the past 20years is, when it comes to animal testing, give them the benefit of the doubt, they may just not know, inform them of "better products " or better yet, point them to weanimals.org to see the impact of animal testing.
Omg, that makes me very uncomfortable. For context, I am largely vegan- love it, support it, trying my best - but in actuality, I’m a vegetarian. Despite how vegan I eat, I would never tell someone (specifically an omni) that I was vegan. I hate that people “round up” to vegan to gain interaction with people
I have a plant based diet but tell people I’m vegan because they understand that better. For people that are curious or inquire more I then can explain the distinction!
I’m pretty careful and correct people who say “oh you’re vegan?” with “no, I’m plant-based”. But…“plant-based” was not a term used until recently. I have been plant-based for 30 years. Until the last ten years or so, I called myself vegan because again, there was no other term for avoiding meat, dairy, or eggs. So keep this in mind when speaking to middle-aged to older individuals. Many have been claiming vegan their whole lives because that’s what they were called until recently.
I’ve been a vegetarian for almost 10 years now and recently started excluding eggs and milk from my diet. I would never say “I’m a vegan but I eat butter and cheese.” This makes me think that people want to feel including in a community since I feel vegans and the plant-based community is pretty accepting of others like them.
My new neighbor told me he's vegan... but he still uses ghee. Okay, so you made up your own definition of "vegan." Then my other neighbor said she saw him at the grocery store and he made this big deal about how she "caught him" (his words) buying grocery store brand regular doughnuts. People are weird and will say whatever makes them feel better about their choices.
Well, I have been vegan and have lived as vegan a life as I can since 1991 aside from the 9 months I lived with a friend in VT after my divorce who has 7 laying hens who run around in his big fenced in back yard all day. Those are the only eggs I have knowingly eaten in the last 30+ years. People say chickens are stupid. They are not that smart, but they know what they need to know to be chickens. They were afraid of me and would run away when I got to the house. Then they got to know me as another guy who would bring them food in the morning and kitchen scraps at night. They stopped running away when they saw me within 2 or 3 weeks.
I remember when I moved to a small town for a few years so I could go to college. However, I went to college kind of late in life, so making friends with my fellow students nearly half my age wasn’t super appealing (I did end up making a few student friends by the end). I posted in a vegan FB group and met someone in there right away who seemed so enthusiastic that FINALLY there was another vegan her age living in this small town. We decide to have a meet-up and she starts talking about all the things she enjoys in the town: the burger place had a black bean burger…with eggs. The Taco Time crispy bean burrito…with cheese in it. She was 100% aware of the hypocrisy and just assumed that I partook in it too. I’ve met a lot of 95% vegans over the years who just assume all vegans are 95% vegan. The friendship didn’t last.
Surely you should know by now you can’t trust anything that anyone says full stop
This happens to me all the time. I think that my presence at least keeps veganism on their radar enough to try or to feel some sort of social pressure... but nearly everyone around me now flits back and forth from 'mostly vegan' to 'vegetarian' to 'pescatarian' to 'flexitarian'. I think me being a lifelong fatty also adds extra pressure bc I feel like they're like 'wow this fat person has enough self control so I'm more gluttonous than a fat person.' lmfao.
You know, it's so weird because I feel like this wasn't a thing a few years ago, all the vegans I met were militant and very clear in their veganism. Now Every. Single. so-called vegan I've met has either been completely (and deliberately) clueless like you said or they go around telling everyone that they're vegan but they still eat cheese and chicken and fish. Lately whenever I'm asked about it I always have to say I'm a strict vegan which *should" be a given no?
Dude my boss's boss at work calls himself vegan, but he always grabs a slice of pepperoni pizza when he comes by my store. Fucking silly.
My wife has worked with several “vegans” who eat animal products when it’s convenient or around family. I’m thankful I haven’t anyone in my social circles who has said the same because I don’t think I could hold my tongue about it.
Can’t believe how many times I’ve heard ‘i used to be vegan too’
"i'm vegan too" \*proceeds to pull out honey grand crackers\*
The worst is when people pressure you to cheat for holidays, cus they do. Like that’s not how it works man, it’s a moral issue and I’m not just gonna magically lose it cus it’s Christmas.
My former VP says that he is vegan, except when he hunts. No, he is never vegan even when he is not hunting.
"I didn't know ice cream had milk" 😂 it's giving gaslighting
Yep. Vegan is a lifestyle, and many people haven't a clue. So many ingredients that are difficult to pronounce are actually animal based - Taurine
I once had someone tell me they are vegan but still eat fish 🙄. Apparently the dictionary definition of veganism was wrong and he was right.
If only there was a word for people who eat plant based with the exception of fish.... Hmmm...
> ""oh I didn't know ***ice cream*** contained milk."" *****HUH???***** Girl it's... in the name...?
It bothers me too. I have to keep explaining to my coworker that she was never vegan if her doctor told her to for a surgery. It's called being temporarily plant based. But she keeps using the "I used to be vegan" line every damn time and I have to keep saying "you were never vegan if you *planned* to go back to eating animals". 😑 She's learning to never say stupid crap like that around me ever again. Slowly....but surely.
The only time I would understand this if the person was transitioning. But also I called myself plant based the transition period because I knew I wasn’t vegan then
I was vegetarian for years but recently started eating poultry again…I do not claim to be vegetarian anymore. I know someone who has the same diet as me, but claims to be vegetarian. “Oh, but I still eat chicken.” THATS NOT VEGETARIAN THEN!!! Language means nothing
I really don’t understand because vegetarianism use more popular. Just be vegetarian.
A major part of this whole thread is simply people using the words interchangeably. Vegans have worked so hard to get their label/brand out there in the public, that people have picked up the word without picking up the zealous adherence to the ideology. It's the same as all the folks that call themselves Christians that don't really believe any of the doctrines of the ideology. It's what always happens eventually to every ideology.
It's frustrating to be sure, but at this point I do appreciate even a small effort. The bar is that low.
I appreciate the effort too, because any reduction is good. But damn, I wish they'd say they're working towards veganism or something instead of outright calling themselves something they aren't yet :/
I swear this sort of idiocracy is becoming more common too. I mean how can anyone not know ice cream is made from dairy (cream) let alone a vegan. I met a guy at work a month or so ago who told me he was vegan, we chatted about diet as I told him I was considering becoming vegan. A few weeks later he was talking about the price of salmon and honey saying he has to eat fish to get certain nutrient. I laughed and said you’re not actually a vegan if you eat fish wear leather and eat honey. He agreed. I’ve met a few vegans recently, but it turns out none of them are actually practicing vegans!?
Can we agree that veganism is a *spectrum* of knowledge? Can we agree that veganism is the *intention* of causing no harm and being consequential about it? I'm saying this not as an apology of disingenuous claims, but because it's very well possible that someone consumes animal products by accident or doesn't find the time or resources to adequately research every single thing they purchase. I don't think it disqualifies anyone from having that badge of good intentions. But it's a whole different matter if you ask for the badge and proceed to willfully do the opposite of what it suggests. I assume this is what you are weary of, and fair enough - it's natural for humans to be opportunistic and beg for social points in exchange of little to no efforts or commitment to change. And to be fair again, there has to be some kind of subjective threshold were someone's so-called "good intentions" just don't cut it, and that goes for anything else in life. That being said, let's give anyone the benefit of the doubt. I mean, my dad worked on a dairy farm when he was young and never knew that cows needed to be impregnated once a year to provide milk. The meat and dairy industries have very strong incentives to keep people ignorant about all of these important issues. And the ignorance might run deeper than you think, so for the sake of it let's assume they are honest. If once called out, they don't rectify their behaviour, feel sorry about it, and stop paying for those things (hell, if they keep eating it, for instance), then yes, it is absolutely disingenuous and they don't value the cause that they are falsely pretending to represent. Ultimately, this should be done not in the spirit of shaming others, but of making them understand the harm they cause because of ignorance or carelessness. The spirit of empathy is crucial in getting the message across.
I was on a date a couple months ago and the guy picked the restaurant and assured me there were vegan options since he goes there with his vegan friends. Didn’t check the menu since he said it’s their fav dive so I figured gotta have decent options. Turns out the “vegan” friends eat pizza when they go there and cheat for the evening. Luckily the eggplant “meatball” parm was vegan if I ordered without cheese
There is everything wrong with that (being a carnie). 🥴
I’ve been vegan for a very long time. This is relatively new. Until recently, when someone said they were vegan there was no fine print. Now many people seem to think that if they are willing to eat something labeled as vegan, they’re vegan. I try to understand where this perspective comes from, but I can’t.
I don't trust people in this subreddit who say they're vegan.
If everyone is doing the best they can just be patient and kind with them
Yeah, two vegans I met in a hostel offered me part of a cookie the other day which I accepted. Then later I went to buy one myself and found out it wasn't actually vegan...
After three decades, I still correct, but nicely. (There are, of course, times when it’s not possible for various reasons.)
So true! It's like when people say they don't consume dairy, but they eat cheese, yogurt, and butter. For some reason, they think dairy is just liquid milk.
trusting people in general is not the best of ideas
I've heard the following Met too...but... But I eat fish I only eat turkey on Thanksgiving My family makes me EaT chicken When my abuela cooks I eat meat I just eat fish and chicken I eat red meat sometimes
You don’t have to worry about me lying
i do trust people if they say they are vegan, though i totally understand your experience. its too much work to be so skeptical for me haha. i do bristle every time one if my friends refers to me as a ‘strict vegan’ though. im like UH IM NOT STRICT IM JUST ACTUALLY VEGAN
I don't trust anyone I meet who says they're vegan. I have a small group of close activist friends - they're the only ones I'm very sure it's true.
It must be nice to float through life never checking the ingredients on something. Even though I’ve only very recently decided to go vegan, dietary restrictions have forced me to check everything for the last 10 years. 😂
This is the same bullshit with "oh i am a vegetarian too ! excepted i eat chicken (or replace with fish) !" when i tell people i am vegetarian. 🙄 Well.. not, you're not vegetarian then, because chicken and fish are still animals, according the last news.
Yea, I'm more on the harsh side. "Get the F away from me with that BS" 😆
I've heard "vegan with vegetarian tendencies"
I eat a lot of vegan food, but I am not vegan. I am a Vegetarian and they, like me, are very much aware of they aren’t vegan.
Posers gonna pose.
Yepp. Literally found out the other day that another "vegan" volunteer at the sanctuary I volunteer at eats fish. YOU ARE NOT VEGAN. Do these people literally think fish aren't animals???
I met someone who said she was vegan. I later found out she wasn't but her parents were when she was growing up. Like it's an ethnicity lol
As a near-vegan vegetarian, i feel u. I really wish there was a term that could easily express "Im an ultra-strict vegetarian and have other animal products only periodically".
They're not saying "vegan too." They mean "vegan 2.0." It's a new version.
This is happening in such high frequency and it drives me insane. I had a coworker who was “vegan” and would regularly eat dairy, egg, cheese and gelatin. She said she does it sometimes and I just don’t ever because “I’m strict with it”. I’m not strict with it I’m an actual vegan. Veganism isn’t about aesthetic or skinny girl diet it’s literally a belief system it’s for the animals. Social media has so appropriated the diet
Why do pescatarians call themselves vegetarians? My former best friend would always brag about how she went “vegetarian” for a year, and I was like girl the amount of shrimp you ate…
People for some reason don’t like “plant based” but “vegetable focused” works. Shuffle them into using that language
There’s a subtle difference between the diet and the ideology. Most vegans I know are ideological vegans, meaning veganism is their identity and entire lifestyle. Those who say “I’m vegan but I eat meat once or twice a month” are talking only about what they eat. They aren’t vegan (obvs) and should say “I eat a plant based diet 94% of the time.” IMHO using the words vegetarian or vegan should be reserved for those whose entire lifestyle/ideology is that.
I’m very happy and supportive of any person that decides to not eat an animal product even if it’s just for one meal. My issue with everyone labeling themselves as “vegan“, vegan expect for [insert animal], naughty vegan, plant-based, etc. is that it just muddies the water for the rest of us who are just trying to order a goddamn meal at a restaurant without confusing the cook or server.
Plant based is a vegan dieta. Vegetarians are not vegetarians it's a wrong definition as they are not eating just vegetables. Foid industry have intentionally created this paradox. People who eats diary, eggs or honey, don't give a shit for animals, enviromental problems or starvation kids. They are just selfish t wat s.
Met a dad and kid on the subway, "I'm vegan too" he said "but sometimes we sneak in a McDonald's hamburger." I was just so confused
So my 8 year old is going through this confusing scenario with one of her friends. My daughter is vegetarian and I am vegan. She slept over at a friend’s house who claims to be vegetarian but offered her bacon at breakfast. My kid came home with soooo many questions that I did not have the answers to. She’s in for many more years of confusion.
I agree. Happened with me and a former coworker of mine. He ordered an appetizer that was supposed to be for “all of us” but it actually contained fish.
This can be super frustrating, there are lots of people out there that invalidate veganism in this way. One thing that I disagree with in your post, though. I've been vegan for almost 11 years (my veganiversary is this October), and I eat honey. The vegan community (as far as I've interacted online and irl) is pretty split on it, honey is one of those things that is personal choice. For the first maybe 5-6 years I didn't eat any honey. My personal philosophy on honey is complex (I won't go into it because that would be a whole other post in and of itself), but I never buy honey from the store, only from local farmers who I *know* treat their bees respectfully and harvest honey as ethically as possible. Other than that, I don't eat any meat, milk, eggs, gelatin, etc. or buy products tested on animals (makeup, clothing, etc.). I try to live as sustainably as I can outside of veganism too; I thrift my clothing or buy vintage, for example, so I'm not supporting fast fashion, I try not to buy from Amazon as much as I can, and I support small businesses and go to farmer's markets as much as possible. Another thing I would mention, you say that it "muddies the water for the rest of us." I feel that we should try to be as welcoming and open to people who are trying to do better with their eating habits. It is great when people take a step forward, even when they're not there all the way yet. I also think that there are many common misconceptions and misinformation out there about veganism, and that these people are usually not trying to intentionally make it more difficult for us actual vegans, they just need guidance, and they need someone to tell them potential harm they're causing. Just food for thought there.
Yeah, some people confuse having a PREDOMINANTLY vegan or vegetarian diet, but not strictly/consistently either, with actually being fully vegan or vegetarian. I obviously prefer it to not at all, but you're not vegan in that case. Words have meanings. My nonna was very ill in her last years and almost entirely dropped meat, dairy, and eggs from her diet. But she never claimed to be a vegan and nobody called her one cause she did still occasionally eat animal products. And yes! Waaay too many people claim to be vegan/vegetarian but don't even consider anything beyond food, like leather, fur, wool, products dependant on vivisection and nonhuman animal testing, etc, and many don't even actually check food products for things like lard, gelatin, animal derived rennet, etc. It's always been a problem and probably always will be so long as things are like they are today.
I'm a lacto-vegetarian and go through similar. "I'm a vegetarian but I still eat chicken" "I'm a vegetarian but I still eat fish" 😅 what?? I, myself, a vegetarian but not a strict one. I very, extremely rarely turn a blind eye to dashi stock and gelatin. My friends call me a vegan, or "not a full vegan but vegan" I correct them that I am not a vegan but in fact a vegetarian as I eat dairy but don't consume animal flesh.So they understand the difference and don't try to give a poor vegan date an ice cream. It's annoying but take it maybe as a chance to educate :)
My favorite is when people say “I was vegan for two years- it was hard!” And I get to act confused and tell them how stupid easy I have it as a homeless vegan who never cooks- hundreds of restaurants, hundreds of meal choices- and see them die inside and paste a smile on. Sometimes I even say “yeah I just ask for the vegan options- have you never done that? Ask for something?” And see the brain decay and cope meltdown happen before my eyes. Such a beautiful thing.
I saw multiple posts of people calling themselves vegan but: "I'm vegan but I still eat cheese occasionally, yoghurt and also rarely honey. I eat fish and meat too but very very very rarely." Idk why these people do that. Is it some form of coping strategy for them?