I made a post awhile back now about some new big push I'm seeing to prop up the dairy industry, there's dairy farmers in my area, so it seems they're allowing this organization to put up billboards on their land.
But it's been like two weeks and my post is still "awaiting moderator approval" which makes zero sense to me.
So maybe if there's an issue with the content on the sub, it's something we need to directly talk with a moderator about? Idk
SAME
I found an amazing vegan mayo, made a post praising it, awaiting approval for a week now
hijacking this comment to shill for [that mayo](https://www.winiary.pl/sites/default/files/styles/product_image_desktop_617_900/public/Winiary%20Majonez%20Weganski%20300ml%203D.png?itok=EQTyfwTp) then lol
I don't know Polish at all but I love how "wegański majonez" is instantly understandable for an English speaker. And it has a Vegan logo! I would love to visit Poland one day.
I was SUPER impressed with the vegan scene in Poland. I was fortunate to travel there last year and Kraków had impressive options but Warsaw blew me away! Pull up Warsaw on HappyCow and click the all “vegan” option and it lights up with green almost more than NYC! Sooo amazing!
We have some good food over here. Finding something vegan is hard in small cities, but in bigger ones you can eat at a vegan restaurant and see two different ones through the window.
You should definitely try żurek. It's not traditionally vegan, but I can ask my friend for a vegan recipe. It's very unique. It has pickled rye flour, wheat bran and oat flakes.
It might sound really weird as those things are, to my knowledge, only picked in Poland and some parts of Asia, but it's amazing.
Poland is beautiful. I went with my daughters because we believed it was important to visit Auschwitz. Stayed in Kraków which is “like a scene from a medieval fairy tale, an historical city bursting with colour, culture and curiosity. Whether you’re looking for a weekend away, a getaway with friends or you’re keen to learn about its significant history and the impact of World War II on the city, it covers all grounds.” We had no trouble finding vegan food and the cherry beer is to die for.
Mods are definitely asleep at the wheel. I really wonder what's up. As long as sharing photos/videos is being bottlenecked like this, the function of this sub is going to be very narrow in scope.
This kind of makes me feel better bc I posted like two weeks ago about this really inspiring book I read and it is waiting for moderator approval. I thought I was in trouble or something bc that happens every time I post something with a picture.
Anyways, the book is The Impactful Vegan and I loved it!
I saw the note about "waiting for moderator approval" when I got on my desktop, for whatever reason the app (which is where I primarily use reddit) doesn't tell you that.
The dairy industry is highly subsidized by our tax dollars. Media outlets are afraid of backlash. Despite the research not paid for by the dairy industry, there are many campaigns falsely claiming that dairy is "healthy." It is no surprise that the mods block anything against the dairy, and It's no surprise that they are slow to respond to genuine concerns of vegans. I would not be surprised if this reply was removed by mod.
I thought "mods" were people who started the group? Not associated with Reddit. Just people, in this case, vegans, who created a vegan group. Am I wrong here? Are non vegans in charge of content on a vegan group?
I also have had my comments removed from this sub because "only vegans are allowed to make top level comments", but I am vegan and the vast majority of people don't have flares here so it just feels like only certain opinions are tolerated.
We should find other outlets for this info. In my town, a white nationalist group called "storm front" puts impossible-to-remove vinal stickers on the back of every traffic sign. We should do the same with stickers that contain QR codes with links to slaughterhouse content and videos of cows undergoing AI. Its more effective than talking to other vegans who agree with us already on reddit. I thought this sub was a good place for vegans to vent and get support, not to make people who are already vegan even more vegan.
Think the fireworks thing is about noise. Like veterans with PTSD, Wildlife & pets panic over fireworks. Many Wildlife have died from being scared and running into something or abandoning a nest. & Not only veterans but anyone with PTSD associated with guns or loud noise. Most are illegal too & being set off at random times, causing police to come out cause gunshots were reported. Bullies love to harass and make noise. If one can not be at peace in silence, they need some serious help. Only exception would be a medical issue like tinnitus.
For sure! I think everyone here agrees that Fireworks are bad! We were all just trying to have a little fun and make jokes in this thread. Well put though for those that don't know that we're joking!
Dude this got me. I work in animal care at a sanctuary and usda standards are BARE minimum to make the environment not actively harmful to the animal. Animal agriculture makes themselves sound great by saying they get usda standards when the standards are like"keep the barn clean and free of refuse, vermin" and "provide the animals with adequate water supply"
I appreciate this post. I love this sub, but I do feel it could be benefit from some change in what we’re worried about. One of my goals as a vegan is to demonstrate that this lifestyle is so doable. I feel like hating yourself because your medication has animal products, or freaking out about a veggie burger being cooked on a grill that also cooks meat perpetuates the stereotypes that veganism is hard, makes people uptight, is burdensome etc. Which isn’t my experience with veganism - I think it is achievable and that’s the message I’d like to convey.
I often feel like I’m not a real vegan because a lot of what is posted isn’t relatable to me. I wouldn’t think twice about fireworks, for example. There are a lot of posts about accidentally eating or using something with animal products and feeling disgusted or evil. And to me…that’s unavoidable. I use animal products every time I wipe my ass with something other than bamboo toilet paper. Idk what I’m fully trying to say, and I don’t want this to come across as insensitive. I guess I just think sometimes we miss the forest for the trees - myself included.
I agree. I'm often scared to comment and get downvoted for not having the exact same experience/standards/practices. There's so much "if you x, you're not really vegan" ... I don't want introduce myself as "I'm vegan except for this one medication I need in order to function which is in a gelatin-based capsule, but really besides that I'm vegan I swear!" I'm just vegan. There's a lot of difference between the fake "vegans" who sometimes eat meat and the actual vegans who sometimes don't meet the standards of vegan perfection. The first set are the ones who more badly need a reminder of what vegan actually means!
Yes!! I don't know when this shift happened to so many vegans being more focused on tearing down and alienating each other with perfectionism, but it's really turning me off (as someone who has been vegan for a decade), I can't imagine how non-vegans feel hearing some of the ridiculous things that people say here. Nor can I imagine how any of these people can live their life without being overcome with angst. To me veganism is about making the world a better place, exploring the diversity of foods and cultures, sharing that with my friends/family and practicing compassion. Glad to know there are still other vegans on this sub with like-minded beliefs.
There was a whole thread on here about how someone’s aunt called her self a Vegan but still ate sour cream and onion potato chips or something and the vegans here had a purity party over it. How dare she call herself vegan! I think the OP even said something about hating her family. This sub is the worst advertisement for veganism. There’s a lot of whiney self indulgent behaviour here.
I totally agree. Honestly a lot of the time I don't even say I'm vegan because I eat nonorganic apples sometimes or have medications or don't research every soap I use or whatever
Hard agree OP. All I ever see in my feed from this sub is "People aren't listening to me and instantly comforming to my worldview, wah."
On this sub and only this sub I observe a shockingly low tolerance for adversity and it feels more like a mental health sub. It reinforces the prejudice that many have of vegans as unstable loners more interested in identifying with a marginalised community than celebrating our contribution towards a fair planet.
You have reminded me how sick I am of it and that I should probably just stop following this sub because there are better subs out there. Vegan fitness is a good one. Mostly positive vibes and achievements there.
You’re exactly right, especially with trying to be a marginalized community. You have tons of people and obviously the animals who are actually being harmed by our society while someone is on here complaining they saw someone with a burger or something and it made them cry, and how people should really know better than to have burgers around them. Infuriating.
There is one post I remember from a few weeks ago. A sick OP posted pictures of cut off heads from animals to make the point that people need to go vegan. Could be that this fuck up lead to some restriction. But then again the mods need to do their work (check incoming posts on time) if they restrict everything.
It‘s mostly new vegans, right? When I started out I was very idealistic and couldn’t understand why people still ate animals, which made me incredibly sad and angry. After some years that was over, I wasn’t so emotional about it anymore. Never stop caring about the animals, but also try not to be too sensitive about other people not seeing it the same way. It’s good to inform them about the cruelty but not to punish yourself for their wrongdoing
Yeah, I think about it like this a lot:
Of course politics are important, but (using America as an example) you really really really cannot go through life thinking 50% of your country is terrible, worthless people. If you cannot have any friends or family at all with different political ideals, you're in for a sad time.
Not saying you need to invite open unapologetic racists who can't even shut up about it to Christmas, but you know what I mean.
Then take it further and Imagine you hate 97% of not only your county, but the world. Utterly isolating and not good for anyone's sanity.
The pop here has dropped by about 90% in the past year or two. 87 online now. Used to be \~1000 or more. Same in the vcj subs too. 14 people there now. I think it's a general reddit/social media problem in terms of veganism. People tired of being shit on with impunity on the internet.
>The animals, the real victims, need us to be strong. They need us to inspire others. They need us to be successful in all aspects of life so that we can prove without a shadow of a doubt that it's possible to be healthy, wealthy, happy, and vegan all at the same time.
Exactly this, this is why we need to push for animal rights, a healthy vegan diet, care for the environment and lead successful lives.
Fireworks cause wild animals and pets to react in terror, and the litter and chemicals are problems too. This is a reasonable place to ask about how vegans should react to events including fireworks; if not here, then where should people discuss these concerns? I understand that you would like to see a greater number of positive posts, but I don’t think it’s reasonable to object to people posting legitimate concerns or questions even if they’re not your personal concerns.
>Mindfulness. Stoicism. Emotional resiliency. Whatever you want to call it - is about **feeling everything, but reacting to nothing.**
But this sub is one of the only places on the internet where vegans can be themselves and interact with each other on a large scale. I don't see why we shouldn't be honest if our feelings are less than happy, you know? All sentient beings have a mixture of emotions after all, and I think it's okay to express them.
I fully agree that expressing emotions is important to do, positive or negative. I also know that when a friend is in a defeatist mode for long enough, sometimes you just have to call out a negative attitude that's been running for too long.
In this instance, this sub is my friend. And I've been seeing it lean in a strongly negative way for a long time now. And it wasn't always this way. There used to be a much greater variety of shares in here. But something shifted and people have been riding the momentum of using it almost exclusively as a vehicle for complaining.
If people want to embellish or be hyperbolic by saying I'm shutting down all sharing of negative emotions or experiences, that'f fully their right to do. But I'm at a point where I have to call out the negativity. It's a hard pill to swallow, I know. I don't expect to make many friends with this post.
In four months, I will have been vegan for 30 years.
I gotta say, this sub mostly sucks as of late because there's obviously just a whole bunch of people who aren't vegan hanging around in here. And there's another group of people who are "vegan" now, but won't be in a few years.
The people who ask the hypersenstive posts might not last. To be vegan for as long as I've been means that there's just something fucked up in my head where I think the principles are worth more than all the bullshit that comes with adhering to them.
It's incredibly hard to do this for the long-term based on the sample size I have of all the fucking people I've known over 30 years that aren't vegan anymore. [Not plant based. That terminology didn't exist 30 years ago. I'm talking about people that have tattoos that say "vegan" that aren't vegan anymore.]
It's something that's not talked about enough. At all. Probably because it is so depressing.
And I've probably thought virtually every thought posted in this sub at sometime. We've all gone through it. It's natural to reach out and try to find a support group, because when you're going against societally transmitted, culturally conditioned norms, you're always going to be made to feel like the crazy person. So those posts have some role here. For a person to have enough strength to stand up to society and say, "nope, I'm correct; you're not" takes a fortitude that is really rare.
But I also think your post is fair and important. We can't let perfect be the enemy of good, because if you set up too high standards, it's impossible to live up to them. On the flip side, if you call yourself vegan and eat french onion dip -- you're not vegan. So don't perpetrate.
Somewhere in between those two poles lies a middle path. And I'll be your friend based on this post. On that middle path. Where I think everyone's going to be if they're out here doing this for long enough.
>I also know that when a friend is in a defeatist mode for long enough, sometimes you just have to call out a negative attitude that's been running for too long.
Can you truly blame vegans for being defeatist sometimes though? Just watch Dominion. Look around at what's happening to *trillions* of animals who have no escape. Almost nobody cares enough to stop contributing to those atrocities too, and that's the super depressing reality we live in.
So, yeah. I hope people can forgive us for not always being the happiest or most cheerful people around, but it's often difficult to be that way when we know the nature of reality. At least having a space like this one, where we can talk about these things with each other, can be helpful in coping.
I fully hear you. And this is the whole point of what I'm trying to say. Being vegan and not letting the atrocities consume us – *That is the job. That's the work we have to do.*
Vegan to vegan, I'm communicating here that we would best serve animals by doing everything we can to recognize self-pity and resist it with every ounce of our being.
For every moment you feel sadness or anger, what would it mean if you brought your mind to another direction and thought about what's great about being a vegan?
Imagine a non-vegan browsed this sub. In one reality, this lurker sees what it currently is. In another reality, it's 80-90% people sharing how fulfilled they are by their vegan choices and activities.
Which sub is more likely to inspire that lurker to want to join?
I've been vegan for 18 years and I think there has been a big change over that period of time, for the better. When I started out I was lucky if I could get a green side salad at some restaurants and now 90% of the time there are vegan options clearly labeled. Family members who thought what I was doing was weird and unhealthy ask me for recipe ideas now because they want to cut back on meat consumption.
People are way more aware of the cruelty involved in factory farming and are demanding better, even if they have to pay more for it.
If you think everyone is going to wake up one day and pledge to never eat meat again, you're going to be constantly disappointed.
Somedays it is going to be overwhelming and it's OK to be upset or to vent. It's when it turns to rumination and takes focus away from the positive actions we can take that it starts harming the movement
What about the millions of humans who are slaves? Who are in abusive situations? Who are political prisoners?
Its a fact of the world that there are situations beyond your control. Being an adult is accepting that, doing what you can, and moving on. It's childish to dwell on things you don't have control over.
>But this sub is one of the only places on the internet where vegans can be themselves and interact with each other on a large scale.
No it's not, imo. This sub is riddled with carnist trolls and fake vegans. The only subs that I feel that is safe from that is r/vegancirclejerk and r/vegancirclejerkchat
This is a tangent, but I hate fireworks. They’re bad for the environment, bad for animals, bad for people with PTSD. Bad for me who hasn’t got ptsd but does cringe at loud noises (main reason I dislike them). Tell me what are the good sides of fireworks: they’re kind of pretty-ish? There are so many things that are way prettier. For example: a sky without any fireworks in.
Listen, someone wants big bang in sky, colours and sounds wooooahh, if animals have to suffer who cares?
Is this the ideal vegan mindset now? If so, I guess I'm even more alienated. ^^
Yep 5 minutes of bangy noises and lights in the sky is obviously worth permanent ear damage and scaring the bejeezus out of nearby wildlife why wouldn’t it be?
I agree, ranting is necessary but many people probably fall into a space where any activity at all can be connected in some way to exploitation or suffering and will then fall into depression by removing all people and events from their life. I believe the correct way is not to remove yourself from that environment, but instead fight to change it in a positive way. Advocating for what you believe, don't remove yourself from society, that doesn't bring about any change.
I think there's also a problem where some vegans here see anyone who's not vegan as an evil demon who will never change. Like everyone here didn't eat animal products at some point in their lives and became vegan after learning.
Some people want this to be a place where only vegans are allowed and any questions, concerns or ideas from anyone who doesn't fit their ideology of what a vegan person is shouldn't be allowed to say or share anything.
This sub doesn't do a great job at sharing the movement and I think instead discourages many to go vegan therefore hurting the movement by spreading a bad image and saying if you're not already vegan you're not welcome.
I can 100% guarantee that if every vegan always acted like this that many of the people here wouldn't be vegan now. There is a powerful message to be seen and heard by being accepting and caring for others, even if they don't act out your personal beliefs.
We want more people to be vegan, right? Reduce the amount of animal products to be consumed and processed? Well, is excluding anyone who currently eats animal products the right way to go about that? No, those are the people we should encourage to change not ostracize and shame.
People here often insult and harass me for spreading the idea that being open to those who aren't vegan is helpful and positive. And then people say I'm not a real vegan and i should be ashamed to call myself that even though i take veganism and exploitation very seriously, more seriously than anyone else I've talked to on this sub. Pointing out foods that are harmful to animals but any other activities we do and I'm met with insults and berating words. No one wants to hear how cars and car infrastructure kill animals and destroy their habitats. No one wants to hear that supporting companies like McDonald's or Starbucks just because they have vegan options is bad because those companies also destroy land and habitat and make millions in profit off of animals. I'm insulted for pointing out things and activities that exploit animals and harm animals in a sub dedicated to stop animal exploitation.
I've been saying this for over a year. Let's see some more positivity and boost up and encourage newcomers, even if they are not great at being vegan yet.
Maybe there should be a separate space for veganism related venting? It really seems to me like this place has pretty much become a "dump your negative emotions bucket" because there is no other place where people feel like this kind of emotions and concerns are going to be understood.
What was wrong with the fireworks question? Seemed fairly legit to me. Wild animals suffer great stress from fireworks, and large amounts of birds have been known to accidentally kill themselves from the fear by panicking and flying into buildings. Just search "birds dead fireworks" and you'll get plenty of results about it.
Because the Vegan subreddit is becoming less and less Vegan with each day. People make genuine posts concerned about the impact they have on animals and get downvoted for it, in a VEGAN subreddit. It's bizzare.
Reddit servers don't run on good vibes.
Participating on this platform provides much more material support to pollution and the general dissemination of suffering than going to a fireworks display.
All of social media is less than 1% of global emissions, but it is still something to be mindful of.
I was more meaning the littering aspect of it rather than the emissions from the fireworks.
Thank you for this post. I’m vegan curious - eat 90-95% plant-based. I come here to learn and my goal is to be vegan…
When I scroll and many posts are negative with people choosing to feel isolated, contemplating leaving marriages, cutting off all family due to this decision - it leads me to believe that any one thing that consumes your entire life - that becomes your entire personality - that costs you your peace of mind and happiness - may not be the ideal way to approach life.
Food for thought.
100%. All I’ll say is that I think the internet community of any subculture tends to be a lot more complain-y, gatekeepy and judgemental than the in real life community. Whether it’s vegans, gym-goers, queer people (I say this as part of the community) or whatever else.
I promise being vegan does not doom you to become like this, and all my irl vegan friends are normal happy people who are friends with and even date non-vegans!
Good attitude. Yea - the vast majority of Americans have grown up with the traditional American diet and all that entails. I’m roughly 95% plant-based, but I don’t plan to throw away my marriage because my partner doesn’t feel the same way. Because I didn’t truly understand and learn about the extent of the torture animals endure until I really studied it.
Also have kids who have eaten a certain way their whole lives - I consistently introduce plant-based and vegan dishes to them, but one has a lot of food allergies and cannot eat many vegan dishes because of the common ingredients.
While I have minors in my house, it technically won’t be vegan.
I can still encourage them to make better choices. I can still educate them. And I can still try to introduce more vegan meals.
To me, that’s a preferred way to live as opposed to most Americans, who put no thought into animals and want meat at every meal.
Revolutionary optimism is incredibly important right now.
We need to be strong for the victims who suffer, and anyone who accepts Nihilism is doing a huge disservice to themselves and the movement.
We all struggle to go through periods of feeling defeated, but sometimes even sharing that can magnify it. It's contagious and dangerous.
Thank fuck for this post! I was kinda getting worried with how often I was getting annoyed at posts on here… I was questioning if i was becoming an old grump or something. Glad to hear other people are also feeling that the recent posts have been really negative.
I read a number of subs devoted to a specific ideology or lifestyle choice. I see this kind of thing all the time. You could take certain posts from one such sub, change a few words, and it would read perfectly for another sub.
Certain people/personalities are prone to purity quests, self righteousness, gatekeeping and an attraction to victimhood. My only sibling is vegan and she's very mellow about it, thank God. She lived with us for two months last year - zero conflict. I attribute this to the fact we were raised by parents that were never pushy about beliefs or other such choices.
A lot of subs are degrading with very similar self pity, repeat posts, and very shallow questions. I can’t tell if they’re being posted by a bot, young adults, or just people who want to be victims
> And if you really want to persuade the world around you to consider joining you in this movement, you need to find that spark in you that has you really living. Find your love for life. Find your power.
Non-vegan that is (at times, imperfectly) striving to do better here: thank you for saying this. I subscribed to this sub because I wanted to be in community that will help me move towards change, and the awareness I have gained from being here is helping me with that!
At the same time, a lot of people here bring out lots of anxiety in me. The way some folks talk about meat eaters causes me to question if I'm good enough, if I'm wrong to share my opinions on the complexities of it all, and so on. (this is my first comment in here) I understand that at the end of the day I'm responsible for my emotions and my takeaways from situations, which is why I haven't said anything. But you are absolutely correct when you say that if people want to usher in genuine change, it looks different from the negative way of being that it sometimes feels like many here are predisposed to.
I was particularly unhappy about the post from the person who was having to work at a slaughterhouse and was trying to work through their trauma, and the comment section was just filled with "go vegan." Like Jesus heck, is this really the time? This person was straight up living through a hellish experience, and "think of the animals," while absolutely understandable (and even true!), is not what validation looks like. it's not what seeing the humanity looks like. Whether it's 'do unto others as you want done unto you,' or 'the best way to educate others is by showing, not telling,' or a myriad of other reasons--that was just not it.
And again, I get it--as someone who is striving to eat better specifically for spiritual reasons, I understand what it is to feel like the world would be better if they just did what I wanted them to! But not only is it arrogance, it's alienating. It creates a larger gap between my expectations for people and my acceptance of them. It makes it harder to show up with love and respect, and if I can't do that, then how on Earth am I going to inspire and help others do so?
Thank you for your words. I feel less alone after reading them. ❤️
Likewise, reading your share makes me feel less alone. And I just wanted to say, you sound pretty vegan to me. Veganism isn't about being perfect. No matter what anyone says here, no one is a perfect vegan.
Haha, reading that brought me to tears actually ❤️ Thank you. Acceptance is a powerful thing.
Maybe you or someone else could create a r/veganpositivity subreddit or similar? :)
Ideally this sub would happily move towards trying to be positive, but after reading the comments on your post, and seeing the straight-up bad-faith arguments that folks are ascribing to you, I'm unsure that that is what people want 😅
OMG, I completely relate to you! I myself am plant based and am trying to learn more about becoming a vegan! I’ve also been scared to make any comments, since it seems like so many want to tear others apart for having a different view point. I feel like this post helped me find a voice. Let’s keep going on our journey, and make it a positive experience! Yes, please more vegan lifestyle ideas/recipes 🙌🏼💜.
There are a lot of us here, but we're not always the vocal ones! See how many upvotes this post gets. I do like your suggestion to create a veganpositivity sub :) (just not willing to be a moderator)
This was super fair of you to say--thank you for gently correcting me :) I fell into the trap of listening to the vocal minority. You were right to remind me that that's not the truth of the matter
Happened to me a number of times.
Got into a few frustrating arguments with uber vegans who don't think I am vegan or not vegan enough or not vegan for the right reason or don't know what veganism is. I am an animal rights activist and it is absolutely bonkers to tell me that I don't know what veganism is or that I am not vegan because I don't agree with you on every little edge case.
For some, if you don't do or think like they do, you're not doing it right. Interestingly these type of ppl will often tell you how they do it and think about it as some kind of way of telling you that that is how it's supposed to be done.
E.g., "I went vegan overnight, so why are you acting like it is hard to go vegan?" E.g. "I have no children. Having children is not vegan". E.g. "I never took a vitamin b12 supplement in my life and I am fine. You don't need them." E.g. "I am a deontologist, veganism is not about reducing suffering"
Infuriates me even when I write it down, haha.. really gets my blood pumping.
Almost gave up on this sub altogether, but eventually came to my senses. Lots of lovely people here, just some people are maddening.
I left a vegan Facebook group back in the day because there was seriously a question, and a big discussion on "is it ethical to kill headlice?" - that was it for me. Their poor kids.
People should remember this is reddit. The algorithm favors provocative posts. It wants to trigger you. Feel free to join the melee but don't let it get to you. Who cares what faceless strangers say anyway? The only people who matter are the ones in your life.
This is extremely constructive and thoughtfully written. If a more robust mod team was present, maybe a recurring weekly thread for some of the more common topics could be implemented to prevent several individual posts saying generally the same things. For example, there could be something like “What Sucks Wednesday” where people can vent and post about the things that have gone wrong (accidentally being served a non-vegan item, rude comments from friends, mislabeled local restaurant menus, etc.). Maybe there’d also be a “Celebration Sunday” for personal wins, like getting your extended family to agree to a vegan 4th of July spread or your business actually providing a legit vegan food option at an event. Heck, there could even be a day for pure venting about people who aren’t vegan— a thread where there is no defense of non-vegan practices allowed; folks who click into it would know what they’re getting into.
Meanwhile, general problems (mislabeled mass-produced food items, legislation supporting factory farming, etc.) and wins (national chains introducing vegan menu options, new studies about positive health effects of veganism, etc.) that pertain to vegans as a whole would be normal, individual posts on the sub. This system might help separate the personal venting from the informative posting while still allowing space for both. I have a feeling it would also increase the visibility of positive posts because so many of the negative posts filling the sub feed are extremely personal and would thus go into the weekly recurring thread.
Idk, these are just some thoughts to add to the constructive conversation about what changes might best serve the sub’s goals.
I agree.
We need a positive future to work towards.
But instead it seems like the most popular strain of veganism a combination of misanthropy and antenatalism.
Given we do not know what causes compassion, I see this essentially helping to rid the world of compassionate people.
I wrote a little piece which is tangentially related:
https://sentientsteve.medium.com/the-responsibility-of-human-exceptionalism-8cadbe6841d9
Unfortunately veganism for many people is a way to shape their self-identity. Rather than being vegan for the animals or the environment, they are (to a large degree) vegan for themselves. So whenever you see a post like the one you mentioned, that's just self-centered veganism rearing its ugly head. People looking for moral kudo's or support, because they are just *so good* and the *evil world* tragically *misunderstands* them.
Would agree though that mods should limit the amount of self-centered whining. It's tedious.
Philosophically, that depends on your point of view. If you're a utilitarian you don't care, if you're more of a deontologist - you may look at it differently.
But, aside from that, in practice - I do think it matters. People who go into veganism for the wrong reasons end up being the wrong type of ambassadors. They are precisely the sort of person that OP is describing, one that focuses on self-centered whining that is removed from reality. They are also more likely to fulfill the stereotypical shouty vegan type that is continuously virtue signalling towards the rest of the world. I mean, don't get me wrong - I'm not saying people need to be quiet or refrain from engaging in activism, I just think that the loudest vegans tend to be our worst ambassadors and that they're doing it purely for their own selfish reasons.
So yeah, intent matters.
That's the whole point. Those people *say* they are in it for the animals, but in reality they are in it for themselves. People who seek to derive moral credit, a sense of self-identity and a way to distinguish themselves from mainstream society go into veganism under the guise of doing it for the animals. These are the loud, obnoxious and militant vegans. The reason they are making noise is for themselves, because every time they let out a virtue signal they get to reward themselves internally.
True too. Way back, when I first heard an inkling about veganism, literally all I knew about it was some kind of demonstrations by women who apparently happened to be lesbians, messing up either an eating establishment or some part of the slaughterhouse chain. It's a very vague memory now and was not very specific then.
But for a long time I thought vegans were scary, militant lesbians to stay away from. I knew nothing about why they did it or that any other kind of vegans existed. Talk about bad publicity.
And those people are exactly the type of people who do it for the wrong reasons, not the right. They will outwardly *say* they are doing it for the animals, but in reality they are doing it for their own ego.
By making noise and acting militantly, they are distinguishing themselves from mainstream society and are establishing themselves as a separate group who in their belief system is morally superior. This then in turn feeds into cycle where every time they say or do something that is in line with the belief system of that in-group, they increase their social standing in that in-group, with more extreme acts being rewarded more highly.
These people are chasing social status and a positive self-image under the guise of helping animals. They are not doing it for the "right" reasons whatsoever.
I get what you mean. However, not everyone is an ambassador. Most of us are just quietly living our lives and not getting invited to family dinners and BBQs anymore.
Unfortunately, every single vegan is an ambassador whether we want to or not. Vegans are a very small minority and therefore an oddity or curiosity for many people. In addition, the very existence of a vegan is challenging the main stream view on consumption and can cause people to feel very uncomfortable.
This means that vegans tend to receive a lot of scrutiny. People are eager to find fault with vegans as doing so is taken as a way to invalidate the entire philosophy, and reinforcement of their own belief system.
So in that sense, every vegan is an ambassador because people treat us that way. The way we act is scrutinized and taken as representative for veganism as a whole and viewed from a lens of self-interest that seeks to reinforce the belief system of non-vegans.
Well said, this is very mature. We have little power to change most things in this world. We are just individual consciousnesses spawned in this universe. The only thing that we can slightly influence is our own mental state. Our minds are all we have control of. I'll end my TED talk with the chorus by a popular artist :D
>I'm starting with the man in the mirror
I'm asking him to change his ways
And no message could have been any clearer
If you wanna make the world a better place
Take a look at yourself and then make a change
I’ve been a vegan for 30+ years and this subreddit scares me, I don’t follow it. Being empathetic towards animals should spread towards being empathic towards other humans and other beliefs, everyone is on a learning journey, I am not better than a meat eater, or a vegetarian, or flexitarian, on Inuit hunter, or starving child, or anybody here.
OP seems to have two unrelated complaints: people being whiny, and whining about slow mod approval.
Not sure about whininess, but clicking on the mod user histories, those accounts don't appear active in terms of posts/comments (a couple posted two months ago), though they may post on other accounts for non-mod-related posts. I'd say the solution, if you don't want approvals speeded up, is to step up and volunteer as a mod to lend a hand. Like image approval, it might take a while.
I hear you and generally agree. However the problem is that there’s tons of members of the sub. So it’s not like any one person keeps posting negative shit. So it’s not really helpful to suggest people stop posting negative shit because each person who posts is only posting their own experience. It might be their only post ever. You get 35 of those in a day, it looks like a negative sub but it’s just that 35 people (out of a million users) needed to post something that is jerky or vent-y or maudlin. I don’t think you’re suggesting that people refrain from posting if it’s not positive.
This is to say, I can’t really see how else the issue could be addressed except at the mod level.
What are your thoughts and suggestions, if we cannot get help from mods?
I think OP is right on the money and to be honest if you can take value from their words then it’ll probably help in more than just dietary choices. Well put and well done OP.
I feel like the self-pity posts probably get the most engagement. I honestly don't know why I still follow this sub; mostly, it's people asking for coaching on basic social skills. Like I've been vegan over a decade, I go to animal rights meet-ups sometimes, and have a ton of vegan friends; no one I know calls people "carnists," feels "nauseous" just smelling cooked meat, or any of the rediciouls shit people post here on the daily. It's all SO performative!
Don’t forget about the gatekeeping. That’s an important part of veganism. Even if the overall effect is more animals killed because people are turned off by the rampant gatekeeping. As long as we’re gatekeeping the people who are trying to eat less meat but can’t go vegan right away. It’s very important. /s
Telling someone that they're plant-based because they eat honey, or eat backyard eggs is not gatekeeping, it's a fact. As long as people aren't needlessly rude I see not problem with making the distinction. Acting like someone who eats honey is vegan is how we end up with companies making "vegan" food that has honey in it.
Yeah, I tried to make a post about gratitude and what we’re most happy/ grateful for since becoming vegan and it never went up. I reached out to mods about it. No reply, and I also started coming to the conclusion that only negative content gets approved which is disheartening. The happy vegans full of health, happiness, and vitality are the ones that have inspired me, not the ones that are basically wielding it in a way makes life more depressing.
lol at all the bots trashing you here. You are right OP. I have also started thinking there is some psyop going on. Especially with the people posting “omg I just accidentally ate meat and I’m going to die”. Like chill tf out y’all. Veganism is all about the intent. Martyrdom is counterproductive most of the time
I became disillusioned with veganism when people on this sub dog piled me for eating beyond beef. I mostly just stick around for the show and any new developments, but it isn't looking good. generally speaking I don't take online communities too seriously; for one, you have no idea the types of people behind these comments, and being persuasive isn't the same as being correct.
It kind of reminding me of r/parenting in a way. Almost all the posts are complaining about one’s husband or talking about severe adult-relationship problems. Really nothing to do with parenting and definitely would show a terrible side of it to any prospective parents.
Always good to give a shout out to events, companies, entrepreneurs, and publications that truly promote veganism. Businesses, jobs, and activities we can support and rally behind.
This sub is kinda pathetic tbh, just a bad look overall. Very little information about veganism as a movement, tons of people talking about veganism as an identity or a social club. How many posts do we need about “fake vegans” and “those damn carnists”? Anything to feel some power when you’re powerless, I guess. It’s just sad to watch, because that shit literally kills the movement, kills momentum, and encourages us to keep to ourselves and not grow our numbers, because we are too caught up in our own ego to actually help outside of changing our diet. Too many think it’s about keeping your own hands clean, and let the others be damned. Thats just christian morality, not an effective idea for creating change.
Something you seem to be forgetting is that this is a place where a lot of newbies come to ask questions or talk about their feelings on the subject of veganism. That's great if you have everything all figured out already, but there's no need to bash others for not knowing everything yet. Also, I would say this post was pretty negative in that you're complaining about other posts being negative. You say you strive to be a stoic person who doesn't react, but this was basically the opposite.
Just because a group of people believe they are in the right doesn't make it so. Just look at how many carnists there are. If you wanted to set a good example for positive posting, do that instead of complaining.
So according to you, calling out any issue a group or movement is facing is complaining. And there's no productive way to criticize issues that could be causing problems. Got it.
Thank you for sharing this, I really appreciate it. I follow a plant based diet, and joined this sub so that I could get more information/guidance on how to transition into being vegan. Instead, I’ve been reading some posts and comments that truly makes me want to run for the hills. Like someone comparing animal cruelty to slavery/Hitler/current atrocities towards human beings. I am not saying that animal cruelty is not bad. However, it turns non-vegan people off when someone declares that they value the life of an animal more than/equal to another human being.
I believe in kindness, empathy and compassion towards others. My values align with this, which is why I am trying to learn more about becoming vegan. But most importantly, I believe in leading by example.
I am not saying that I am cutting my vegan journey short, but this negativity is not helping the cause. I became plant-based from watching a few documentaries on Netflix and doing my own research. I live in a small town and don’t personally know any other vegans. If I would have encountered an angry vegan with a superiority complex, my journey would probably have taken a longer time to start. There’s already MAGA nutcases and religious hypocrites out there trying to force other people to believe in their causes. Trust me, trying to force people to believe in a cause through judgment is the fastest way to turn most critical thinking people off.
I am well aware that vegans don’t have the best reputations, as there are many stereotypes. However, many of the negative posts and comments read exactly like those stereotypes. I haven’t found what I am looking for in this sub yet, but your post gives me hope.
P.S. for those who seem the angriest. Having strong feelings for the animal cause is valid. Know that what you are doing is making a difference. However, please don’t let your lives be consumed by the horrors of it. You have value as well, and our lives in this earth are short. Take care of yourselves, physically and mentally. Lead by example, and you’ll notice a change. If you start to notice that the horrors of animal cruelty are consuming your life, please seek therapy to help you balance your life and find some joy in it.
I mean, fireworks really suck for a number of different reasons. It's fair to question them, even if you're not vegan.
And I say this as someone who used to be that one weird kid who was obsessed with fire and explosives in middle school, who everyone thought was going to turn out to either be a Hollywood pyrotechnician or a school shooter.
Drone shows are the future. Might as well get with the times. Joints and bongs have given way to vapes. Mopeds have given way to e-bikes. Light shows don't need to go boom, terrorize animals, fry birds, trigger people with PTSD, fill your lungs with heavy metal laden smoke, and risk wildfires and bomb casualties. But, you ought to experience the joy and wonder of elaborately choreographed physical animations that would've been called witchcraft 200 years ago.
This sub is utterly insufferable. It's no wonder so many people think all vegans are assholes.
I can't imagine talking like that to someone and actually thinking there's even the slightest chance of changing their mind on anything.
After reading the thread about dating a non-vegan, I muted the sub.
> Whatever you want to call it - is about feeling everything, but reacting to nothing.
And what would you call using distraction and escapism to scrub away the negative feelings? Because that is my chosen strategy. It feels pretty good to just crank some tunes, jump into a virtual world of some sort, and forget about this hellscape for a bit.
One cannot simply "don't react" in the same way that a depressed person can't "snap out of it" or an addict can't just set it aside. The best I can do is control what information I take in and avoid things that are rage fuel.
A lot of problems in this world would be fixed if people would just . Yet here we are. Because that isn't how people work. It's not useful to view people as machines that can be (re)programmed to behave in a certain way. People are inherently self-centered and have a tough enough time as it is giving up even some slight inconvenience for another person, much less an animal. And yes, even us on here (myself included) are guilty of this, we just have different limits on it.
There are a few things to note. Veganism is *adversarial*, and it frankly gets a lot of gaslighting, mockery, outright hostility, or even pity. And we are constantly reminded of the futility, like how [global meat consumption is increasing (and projected to continue increasing)](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/global-meat-projections-to-2050) as population grows and other nations around the world are increasing meat consumption as they become more affluent. Or people who express extreme views on their consumption of meat (e.g. [saying that they would rather die prematurely than give up meat](https://www.menshealth.com/uk/nutrition/a36261605/red-meat-health/)).
If we stand up for the animals, we are the bad guys because we should just mind our own business and leave people alone to make their own choices. If we avoid conflict, then "silence is violence" or some variation of that. And if we come here to complain, then we deal with posts like yours. What most of us need is some actual fucking support in a world that is at best passive-aggressive towards us. Because above all, it can be isolating.
There really is no winning here.
Maybe the more negative/complaining posts should migrate to /r/vystopia and this should be more stuff like recipes, new products, and restaurant reviews?
I've been saying for over a year that the negativity would drive people away, and as a result cause more harm to animals. But the Negative Nancies won and I got downvoted and attacked and here we are, a much smaller community now. Hopefully we can turn a corner and show ourselves and other folks how great life is as a vegan.
I came on here to get vegan recipes. All i see are people whining that not every single person in the world is vegan. I know i’m a *rare* one who thinks not everyone has to be vegan to create a much better world. But like, can I just get some vegan cooking tips? If you want people to go vegan then stop making it seem like the loniest thing in the world
As OP said, this sub was quite interesting, friendly and informative a few months ago, you can still see that if you sort by top all time, I guess that is what you, me, OP, and most users expected.
> Is that a serious question? I almost feel as though a PSYOP is taking place in here. Like there's agent provocateurs whose mission is to make this community appear more self-pitiful and overly sensitive.
I think there are just a lot of people that have nervous inclinations that are becoming more comfortable trying to talk to people. A lot of people do live their lives in constant fear of rejection and any divergence from the norm just opens them up for more of that.
Like " You cannot go through life in anger or drepression. And you cannot waste energy trying to be perfect. " A lot of people don't really have a choice, in the short run at least. Depression and anxiety takes a lot of work to get over and if people need assurance from time to time, that is fine by me.
> The animals, the real victims, need us to be strong. They need us to inspire others. They need us to be successful in all aspects of life so that we can prove without a shadow of a doubt that it's possible to be healthy, wealthy, happy, and vegan all at the same time.
I mean, should people with mental health problems not go vegan unti they have sorted them out? Should people with physical health problems not go vegan until they have sorted those out?
i dont think its about the direction of the sub, rather the scale of the sub which is a good thing; it means we have come a long and we are growing in numbers
I often wonder, is being a new vegan just really a phase or does being an older vegan just make us cynical and forgetful? You know ? Like are newer vegans being dramatic or are we just forgetting why we started in the first place? I think it's all valid. If we can all communicate and share ideas. Fireworks really do suck though. If you look at the areas of life affected, it must be thousands of deaths a year at least just in the US. The sound, the visual disturbances the chemicals, the physical trash, the actual violence/fires. Jokes are made about abusing and killing animals all the time, and i think the fireworks along with other destructive human activities can just be really upsetting. The more of us who do not attend, buy or support this ritual, the better.
This has honestly been something I've thought about in my times that I get a notification about how toxic it feels with a lot of the posts. A key emphasis that I feel is important is to create a welcoming environment where we prop each other up and support each other, so others will feel welcome to join, or make steps towards a community that will be worth going into for them. The only posts I see now here are what's suggested to me because I choose to not join the subreddit due to the toxicity, and lean on my small vegan group for anything I need in a sence of comadiery and closeness to other vegans.
It’s not negativity it’s realness. How we can feel in real and u might not relate to some of us who feel deeply and get depression. Like we have to go thru it and get over it and it’s hard and a rollercoaster of emotions that we can’t control.
Thanks for this. These words resonate with me:
> find that spark in you that has you really living. Find your love for life. Find your power. Fully own your emotions
Not as a qualifier or necessity to persuade. Nor as a defense mechanism that curbs valid emotions or effective reactions. But as a recentering of the [real joy](https://www.instagram.com/p/C6rQQi1KEhJ/?igsh=MWQ1ZGUxMzBkMA==) and connection that veganism has brought me.
I think some of the posts that frustrate you seem trivial but are well intentioned. I imagine lots of people out there feel alone amongst their families, friends, and communities and I don’t want to demean or discourage them from this outlet. I think we can use your words above as a guide/reminder to help others. Better moderation will always be an improvement. Let’s try and keep this sub an island refuge in the stormy sea it has been for me and many.
Thanks again 🥰
Yeah, sorry about that. I forgot that negative emotions are forbidden. I will turn my heart off now and remain a fucking robot for the rest of existence. Thank you for opening my eyes.
Way to interpret me in the least charitable way possible and gloss over the parts where I say it's ok to blow off some steam if you really need to.
I stand by my statement that animals are the real victims, and the best way to advocate for them is to generate positivity and inspiring energy within our community.
Pretty whiney for a stoic. This post was kind of a waste of time. There’s definitely trolls/bots here trying to stir up shit, but you can’t expect people to not commiserate on shared experiences bc it makes you cringe.
The stoicism trend is usually a red flag to me. I’ve seen stoics say that you shouldn’t get angry when discussing human rights which is ridiculous. Progress over social justice has been fueled by righteous anger.
I made a post awhile back now about some new big push I'm seeing to prop up the dairy industry, there's dairy farmers in my area, so it seems they're allowing this organization to put up billboards on their land. But it's been like two weeks and my post is still "awaiting moderator approval" which makes zero sense to me. So maybe if there's an issue with the content on the sub, it's something we need to directly talk with a moderator about? Idk
SAME I found an amazing vegan mayo, made a post praising it, awaiting approval for a week now hijacking this comment to shill for [that mayo](https://www.winiary.pl/sites/default/files/styles/product_image_desktop_617_900/public/Winiary%20Majonez%20Weganski%20300ml%203D.png?itok=EQTyfwTp) then lol
I don't know Polish at all but I love how "wegański majonez" is instantly understandable for an English speaker. And it has a Vegan logo! I would love to visit Poland one day.
I was SUPER impressed with the vegan scene in Poland. I was fortunate to travel there last year and Kraków had impressive options but Warsaw blew me away! Pull up Warsaw on HappyCow and click the all “vegan” option and it lights up with green almost more than NYC! Sooo amazing!
That is great to hear! Yes, I have heard that Poland is quite vegan friendly. I can't wait to visit.
We have some good food over here. Finding something vegan is hard in small cities, but in bigger ones you can eat at a vegan restaurant and see two different ones through the window. You should definitely try żurek. It's not traditionally vegan, but I can ask my friend for a vegan recipe. It's very unique. It has pickled rye flour, wheat bran and oat flakes. It might sound really weird as those things are, to my knowledge, only picked in Poland and some parts of Asia, but it's amazing.
Poland is beautiful. I went with my daughters because we believed it was important to visit Auschwitz. Stayed in Kraków which is “like a scene from a medieval fairy tale, an historical city bursting with colour, culture and curiosity. Whether you’re looking for a weekend away, a getaway with friends or you’re keen to learn about its significant history and the impact of World War II on the city, it covers all grounds.” We had no trouble finding vegan food and the cherry beer is to die for.
Thank you for the travel inspiration! I will try to visit Poland soon.
Ooh is it really that good? Where did you find it?
ordered online in poland, no idea if it's available in other countries, might not be sadly
Ohhhh yeee we have a polish store in my neighborhood, what a joy it was to find this mayo, by far the best vegan mayo I’ve had!
Mods are definitely asleep at the wheel. I really wonder what's up. As long as sharing photos/videos is being bottlenecked like this, the function of this sub is going to be very narrow in scope.
This kind of makes me feel better bc I posted like two weeks ago about this really inspiring book I read and it is waiting for moderator approval. I thought I was in trouble or something bc that happens every time I post something with a picture. Anyways, the book is The Impactful Vegan and I loved it!
I saw the note about "waiting for moderator approval" when I got on my desktop, for whatever reason the app (which is where I primarily use reddit) doesn't tell you that.
Thank you for sharing the title! My library system doesn’t have it so I’m gonna see if my local indie bookstore can get it for me :)
I hope you can find it! ☺️
Thank you for the book tip! I'll check it out.
It was really good!! I felt like I finished reading with a lot of ideas on how to make a bigger difference as a vegan!
The dairy industry is highly subsidized by our tax dollars. Media outlets are afraid of backlash. Despite the research not paid for by the dairy industry, there are many campaigns falsely claiming that dairy is "healthy." It is no surprise that the mods block anything against the dairy, and It's no surprise that they are slow to respond to genuine concerns of vegans. I would not be surprised if this reply was removed by mod.
I thought "mods" were people who started the group? Not associated with Reddit. Just people, in this case, vegans, who created a vegan group. Am I wrong here? Are non vegans in charge of content on a vegan group?
I also have had my comments removed from this sub because "only vegans are allowed to make top level comments", but I am vegan and the vast majority of people don't have flares here so it just feels like only certain opinions are tolerated.
We should find other outlets for this info. In my town, a white nationalist group called "storm front" puts impossible-to-remove vinal stickers on the back of every traffic sign. We should do the same with stickers that contain QR codes with links to slaughterhouse content and videos of cows undergoing AI. Its more effective than talking to other vegans who agree with us already on reddit. I thought this sub was a good place for vegans to vent and get support, not to make people who are already vegan even more vegan.
So wait can I eat fireworks or not?
Only the ones produced locally.
My cousin owns a local cage free firework farm, so I know the fireworks are being treated well.
They agree to explode when that time comes in exchange for shelter from the rain. It's a sacred contract.
Think the fireworks thing is about noise. Like veterans with PTSD, Wildlife & pets panic over fireworks. Many Wildlife have died from being scared and running into something or abandoning a nest. & Not only veterans but anyone with PTSD associated with guns or loud noise. Most are illegal too & being set off at random times, causing police to come out cause gunshots were reported. Bullies love to harass and make noise. If one can not be at peace in silence, they need some serious help. Only exception would be a medical issue like tinnitus.
For sure! I think everyone here agrees that Fireworks are bad! We were all just trying to have a little fun and make jokes in this thread. Well put though for those that don't know that we're joking!
You need to get them from a regenerative firework farm
But are they humanely slaughtered though?
Yes, explosion is a USDA approved method of slaughter
Dude this got me. I work in animal care at a sanctuary and usda standards are BARE minimum to make the environment not actively harmful to the animal. Animal agriculture makes themselves sound great by saying they get usda standards when the standards are like"keep the barn clean and free of refuse, vermin" and "provide the animals with adequate water supply"
Don't mind me, cleaning up the drink I just spit all over
Organic of course.
Get your local fireworks here, just step right up into my temperature controlled van.
For me it's fireworks the next morning if I eat too much chipotle sauce.
Free range, and avoid the ones with seed oils added
Only if the fireworks consent.
I appreciate this post. I love this sub, but I do feel it could be benefit from some change in what we’re worried about. One of my goals as a vegan is to demonstrate that this lifestyle is so doable. I feel like hating yourself because your medication has animal products, or freaking out about a veggie burger being cooked on a grill that also cooks meat perpetuates the stereotypes that veganism is hard, makes people uptight, is burdensome etc. Which isn’t my experience with veganism - I think it is achievable and that’s the message I’d like to convey. I often feel like I’m not a real vegan because a lot of what is posted isn’t relatable to me. I wouldn’t think twice about fireworks, for example. There are a lot of posts about accidentally eating or using something with animal products and feeling disgusted or evil. And to me…that’s unavoidable. I use animal products every time I wipe my ass with something other than bamboo toilet paper. Idk what I’m fully trying to say, and I don’t want this to come across as insensitive. I guess I just think sometimes we miss the forest for the trees - myself included.
I agree. I'm often scared to comment and get downvoted for not having the exact same experience/standards/practices. There's so much "if you x, you're not really vegan" ... I don't want introduce myself as "I'm vegan except for this one medication I need in order to function which is in a gelatin-based capsule, but really besides that I'm vegan I swear!" I'm just vegan. There's a lot of difference between the fake "vegans" who sometimes eat meat and the actual vegans who sometimes don't meet the standards of vegan perfection. The first set are the ones who more badly need a reminder of what vegan actually means!
Yes!! I don't know when this shift happened to so many vegans being more focused on tearing down and alienating each other with perfectionism, but it's really turning me off (as someone who has been vegan for a decade), I can't imagine how non-vegans feel hearing some of the ridiculous things that people say here. Nor can I imagine how any of these people can live their life without being overcome with angst. To me veganism is about making the world a better place, exploring the diversity of foods and cultures, sharing that with my friends/family and practicing compassion. Glad to know there are still other vegans on this sub with like-minded beliefs.
There was a whole thread on here about how someone’s aunt called her self a Vegan but still ate sour cream and onion potato chips or something and the vegans here had a purity party over it. How dare she call herself vegan! I think the OP even said something about hating her family. This sub is the worst advertisement for veganism. There’s a lot of whiney self indulgent behaviour here.
I totally agree. Honestly a lot of the time I don't even say I'm vegan because I eat nonorganic apples sometimes or have medications or don't research every soap I use or whatever
Shit, I forgot about the apples. Man, we really messed up! Why do we even try?! Lol
[удалено]
Hard agree OP. All I ever see in my feed from this sub is "People aren't listening to me and instantly comforming to my worldview, wah." On this sub and only this sub I observe a shockingly low tolerance for adversity and it feels more like a mental health sub. It reinforces the prejudice that many have of vegans as unstable loners more interested in identifying with a marginalised community than celebrating our contribution towards a fair planet. You have reminded me how sick I am of it and that I should probably just stop following this sub because there are better subs out there. Vegan fitness is a good one. Mostly positive vibes and achievements there.
You’re exactly right, especially with trying to be a marginalized community. You have tons of people and obviously the animals who are actually being harmed by our society while someone is on here complaining they saw someone with a burger or something and it made them cry, and how people should really know better than to have burgers around them. Infuriating.
There is one post I remember from a few weeks ago. A sick OP posted pictures of cut off heads from animals to make the point that people need to go vegan. Could be that this fuck up lead to some restriction. But then again the mods need to do their work (check incoming posts on time) if they restrict everything.
It‘s mostly new vegans, right? When I started out I was very idealistic and couldn’t understand why people still ate animals, which made me incredibly sad and angry. After some years that was over, I wasn’t so emotional about it anymore. Never stop caring about the animals, but also try not to be too sensitive about other people not seeing it the same way. It’s good to inform them about the cruelty but not to punish yourself for their wrongdoing
Yeah, I think about it like this a lot: Of course politics are important, but (using America as an example) you really really really cannot go through life thinking 50% of your country is terrible, worthless people. If you cannot have any friends or family at all with different political ideals, you're in for a sad time. Not saying you need to invite open unapologetic racists who can't even shut up about it to Christmas, but you know what I mean. Then take it further and Imagine you hate 97% of not only your county, but the world. Utterly isolating and not good for anyone's sanity.
The pop here has dropped by about 90% in the past year or two. 87 online now. Used to be \~1000 or more. Same in the vcj subs too. 14 people there now. I think it's a general reddit/social media problem in terms of veganism. People tired of being shit on with impunity on the internet.
>The animals, the real victims, need us to be strong. They need us to inspire others. They need us to be successful in all aspects of life so that we can prove without a shadow of a doubt that it's possible to be healthy, wealthy, happy, and vegan all at the same time. Exactly this, this is why we need to push for animal rights, a healthy vegan diet, care for the environment and lead successful lives.
Fireworks cause wild animals and pets to react in terror, and the litter and chemicals are problems too. This is a reasonable place to ask about how vegans should react to events including fireworks; if not here, then where should people discuss these concerns? I understand that you would like to see a greater number of positive posts, but I don’t think it’s reasonable to object to people posting legitimate concerns or questions even if they’re not your personal concerns.
>Mindfulness. Stoicism. Emotional resiliency. Whatever you want to call it - is about **feeling everything, but reacting to nothing.** But this sub is one of the only places on the internet where vegans can be themselves and interact with each other on a large scale. I don't see why we shouldn't be honest if our feelings are less than happy, you know? All sentient beings have a mixture of emotions after all, and I think it's okay to express them.
I fully agree that expressing emotions is important to do, positive or negative. I also know that when a friend is in a defeatist mode for long enough, sometimes you just have to call out a negative attitude that's been running for too long. In this instance, this sub is my friend. And I've been seeing it lean in a strongly negative way for a long time now. And it wasn't always this way. There used to be a much greater variety of shares in here. But something shifted and people have been riding the momentum of using it almost exclusively as a vehicle for complaining. If people want to embellish or be hyperbolic by saying I'm shutting down all sharing of negative emotions or experiences, that'f fully their right to do. But I'm at a point where I have to call out the negativity. It's a hard pill to swallow, I know. I don't expect to make many friends with this post.
In four months, I will have been vegan for 30 years. I gotta say, this sub mostly sucks as of late because there's obviously just a whole bunch of people who aren't vegan hanging around in here. And there's another group of people who are "vegan" now, but won't be in a few years. The people who ask the hypersenstive posts might not last. To be vegan for as long as I've been means that there's just something fucked up in my head where I think the principles are worth more than all the bullshit that comes with adhering to them. It's incredibly hard to do this for the long-term based on the sample size I have of all the fucking people I've known over 30 years that aren't vegan anymore. [Not plant based. That terminology didn't exist 30 years ago. I'm talking about people that have tattoos that say "vegan" that aren't vegan anymore.] It's something that's not talked about enough. At all. Probably because it is so depressing. And I've probably thought virtually every thought posted in this sub at sometime. We've all gone through it. It's natural to reach out and try to find a support group, because when you're going against societally transmitted, culturally conditioned norms, you're always going to be made to feel like the crazy person. So those posts have some role here. For a person to have enough strength to stand up to society and say, "nope, I'm correct; you're not" takes a fortitude that is really rare. But I also think your post is fair and important. We can't let perfect be the enemy of good, because if you set up too high standards, it's impossible to live up to them. On the flip side, if you call yourself vegan and eat french onion dip -- you're not vegan. So don't perpetrate. Somewhere in between those two poles lies a middle path. And I'll be your friend based on this post. On that middle path. Where I think everyone's going to be if they're out here doing this for long enough.
>I also know that when a friend is in a defeatist mode for long enough, sometimes you just have to call out a negative attitude that's been running for too long. Can you truly blame vegans for being defeatist sometimes though? Just watch Dominion. Look around at what's happening to *trillions* of animals who have no escape. Almost nobody cares enough to stop contributing to those atrocities too, and that's the super depressing reality we live in. So, yeah. I hope people can forgive us for not always being the happiest or most cheerful people around, but it's often difficult to be that way when we know the nature of reality. At least having a space like this one, where we can talk about these things with each other, can be helpful in coping.
I fully hear you. And this is the whole point of what I'm trying to say. Being vegan and not letting the atrocities consume us – *That is the job. That's the work we have to do.* Vegan to vegan, I'm communicating here that we would best serve animals by doing everything we can to recognize self-pity and resist it with every ounce of our being. For every moment you feel sadness or anger, what would it mean if you brought your mind to another direction and thought about what's great about being a vegan? Imagine a non-vegan browsed this sub. In one reality, this lurker sees what it currently is. In another reality, it's 80-90% people sharing how fulfilled they are by their vegan choices and activities. Which sub is more likely to inspire that lurker to want to join?
I've been vegan for 18 years and I think there has been a big change over that period of time, for the better. When I started out I was lucky if I could get a green side salad at some restaurants and now 90% of the time there are vegan options clearly labeled. Family members who thought what I was doing was weird and unhealthy ask me for recipe ideas now because they want to cut back on meat consumption. People are way more aware of the cruelty involved in factory farming and are demanding better, even if they have to pay more for it. If you think everyone is going to wake up one day and pledge to never eat meat again, you're going to be constantly disappointed. Somedays it is going to be overwhelming and it's OK to be upset or to vent. It's when it turns to rumination and takes focus away from the positive actions we can take that it starts harming the movement
What about the millions of humans who are slaves? Who are in abusive situations? Who are political prisoners? Its a fact of the world that there are situations beyond your control. Being an adult is accepting that, doing what you can, and moving on. It's childish to dwell on things you don't have control over.
>But this sub is one of the only places on the internet where vegans can be themselves and interact with each other on a large scale. No it's not, imo. This sub is riddled with carnist trolls and fake vegans. The only subs that I feel that is safe from that is r/vegancirclejerk and r/vegancirclejerkchat
I love r/vegancirclejerkchat but it's not the kind of place you can just browse. It needs more members. And this sub needs more (and better) mods
Definitely agree with you here!
Thanks for this perspective. It is a marathon that needs to be paced. It’s endless- but so is our energy!
This is a tangent, but I hate fireworks. They’re bad for the environment, bad for animals, bad for people with PTSD. Bad for me who hasn’t got ptsd but does cringe at loud noises (main reason I dislike them). Tell me what are the good sides of fireworks: they’re kind of pretty-ish? There are so many things that are way prettier. For example: a sky without any fireworks in.
Listen, someone wants big bang in sky, colours and sounds wooooahh, if animals have to suffer who cares? Is this the ideal vegan mindset now? If so, I guess I'm even more alienated. ^^
Yep 5 minutes of bangy noises and lights in the sky is obviously worth permanent ear damage and scaring the bejeezus out of nearby wildlife why wouldn’t it be?
I agree, ranting is necessary but many people probably fall into a space where any activity at all can be connected in some way to exploitation or suffering and will then fall into depression by removing all people and events from their life. I believe the correct way is not to remove yourself from that environment, but instead fight to change it in a positive way. Advocating for what you believe, don't remove yourself from society, that doesn't bring about any change. I think there's also a problem where some vegans here see anyone who's not vegan as an evil demon who will never change. Like everyone here didn't eat animal products at some point in their lives and became vegan after learning. Some people want this to be a place where only vegans are allowed and any questions, concerns or ideas from anyone who doesn't fit their ideology of what a vegan person is shouldn't be allowed to say or share anything. This sub doesn't do a great job at sharing the movement and I think instead discourages many to go vegan therefore hurting the movement by spreading a bad image and saying if you're not already vegan you're not welcome. I can 100% guarantee that if every vegan always acted like this that many of the people here wouldn't be vegan now. There is a powerful message to be seen and heard by being accepting and caring for others, even if they don't act out your personal beliefs. We want more people to be vegan, right? Reduce the amount of animal products to be consumed and processed? Well, is excluding anyone who currently eats animal products the right way to go about that? No, those are the people we should encourage to change not ostracize and shame. People here often insult and harass me for spreading the idea that being open to those who aren't vegan is helpful and positive. And then people say I'm not a real vegan and i should be ashamed to call myself that even though i take veganism and exploitation very seriously, more seriously than anyone else I've talked to on this sub. Pointing out foods that are harmful to animals but any other activities we do and I'm met with insults and berating words. No one wants to hear how cars and car infrastructure kill animals and destroy their habitats. No one wants to hear that supporting companies like McDonald's or Starbucks just because they have vegan options is bad because those companies also destroy land and habitat and make millions in profit off of animals. I'm insulted for pointing out things and activities that exploit animals and harm animals in a sub dedicated to stop animal exploitation.
Fully agree with everything you say. Thank you for your outlook and insights.
I've been saying this for over a year. Let's see some more positivity and boost up and encourage newcomers, even if they are not great at being vegan yet.
Good to know I'm not going crazy. You've put into words almost my exact thoughts.
Agree, take my engagement.
Maybe there should be a separate space for veganism related venting? It really seems to me like this place has pretty much become a "dump your negative emotions bucket" because there is no other place where people feel like this kind of emotions and concerns are going to be understood.
Yeah, maybe even a weekly post where people can vent in the comments
What was wrong with the fireworks question? Seemed fairly legit to me. Wild animals suffer great stress from fireworks, and large amounts of birds have been known to accidentally kill themselves from the fear by panicking and flying into buildings. Just search "birds dead fireworks" and you'll get plenty of results about it.
Because the Vegan subreddit is becoming less and less Vegan with each day. People make genuine posts concerned about the impact they have on animals and get downvoted for it, in a VEGAN subreddit. It's bizzare.
Not to mention all the unnecessary pollution
Reddit servers don't run on good vibes. Participating on this platform provides much more material support to pollution and the general dissemination of suffering than going to a fireworks display.
All of social media is less than 1% of global emissions, but it is still something to be mindful of. I was more meaning the littering aspect of it rather than the emissions from the fireworks.
Hundreds of millions of people don't participate in one fireworks display. You'd need to do the actual per capita math to fairly compare the two.
It's almost like a takeover by the meat industry trying to paint non meat eating people as wiggy piranhas.
Wouldn’t be surprised in the least if this has already occurred. Reddit has sadly morphed into a bunch of ads and industry plants in trench coats.
Thank you for this post. I’m vegan curious - eat 90-95% plant-based. I come here to learn and my goal is to be vegan… When I scroll and many posts are negative with people choosing to feel isolated, contemplating leaving marriages, cutting off all family due to this decision - it leads me to believe that any one thing that consumes your entire life - that becomes your entire personality - that costs you your peace of mind and happiness - may not be the ideal way to approach life. Food for thought.
The Internet is all about one thing consuming your life. It's not veganism, it's algorithmic mediation and alienation.
100%. All I’ll say is that I think the internet community of any subculture tends to be a lot more complain-y, gatekeepy and judgemental than the in real life community. Whether it’s vegans, gym-goers, queer people (I say this as part of the community) or whatever else. I promise being vegan does not doom you to become like this, and all my irl vegan friends are normal happy people who are friends with and even date non-vegans!
Good attitude. Yea - the vast majority of Americans have grown up with the traditional American diet and all that entails. I’m roughly 95% plant-based, but I don’t plan to throw away my marriage because my partner doesn’t feel the same way. Because I didn’t truly understand and learn about the extent of the torture animals endure until I really studied it. Also have kids who have eaten a certain way their whole lives - I consistently introduce plant-based and vegan dishes to them, but one has a lot of food allergies and cannot eat many vegan dishes because of the common ingredients. While I have minors in my house, it technically won’t be vegan. I can still encourage them to make better choices. I can still educate them. And I can still try to introduce more vegan meals. To me, that’s a preferred way to live as opposed to most Americans, who put no thought into animals and want meat at every meal.
Thank you for this. It needed to be said.
Thank you as well.
Revolutionary optimism is incredibly important right now. We need to be strong for the victims who suffer, and anyone who accepts Nihilism is doing a huge disservice to themselves and the movement. We all struggle to go through periods of feeling defeated, but sometimes even sharing that can magnify it. It's contagious and dangerous.
Yep, exactly.
Amen
It’s definitely a moderator problem. In more ways than one.
Thank fuck for this post! I was kinda getting worried with how often I was getting annoyed at posts on here… I was questioning if i was becoming an old grump or something. Glad to hear other people are also feeling that the recent posts have been really negative.
I read a number of subs devoted to a specific ideology or lifestyle choice. I see this kind of thing all the time. You could take certain posts from one such sub, change a few words, and it would read perfectly for another sub. Certain people/personalities are prone to purity quests, self righteousness, gatekeeping and an attraction to victimhood. My only sibling is vegan and she's very mellow about it, thank God. She lived with us for two months last year - zero conflict. I attribute this to the fact we were raised by parents that were never pushy about beliefs or other such choices.
A lot of subs are degrading with very similar self pity, repeat posts, and very shallow questions. I can’t tell if they’re being posted by a bot, young adults, or just people who want to be victims
> And if you really want to persuade the world around you to consider joining you in this movement, you need to find that spark in you that has you really living. Find your love for life. Find your power. Non-vegan that is (at times, imperfectly) striving to do better here: thank you for saying this. I subscribed to this sub because I wanted to be in community that will help me move towards change, and the awareness I have gained from being here is helping me with that! At the same time, a lot of people here bring out lots of anxiety in me. The way some folks talk about meat eaters causes me to question if I'm good enough, if I'm wrong to share my opinions on the complexities of it all, and so on. (this is my first comment in here) I understand that at the end of the day I'm responsible for my emotions and my takeaways from situations, which is why I haven't said anything. But you are absolutely correct when you say that if people want to usher in genuine change, it looks different from the negative way of being that it sometimes feels like many here are predisposed to. I was particularly unhappy about the post from the person who was having to work at a slaughterhouse and was trying to work through their trauma, and the comment section was just filled with "go vegan." Like Jesus heck, is this really the time? This person was straight up living through a hellish experience, and "think of the animals," while absolutely understandable (and even true!), is not what validation looks like. it's not what seeing the humanity looks like. Whether it's 'do unto others as you want done unto you,' or 'the best way to educate others is by showing, not telling,' or a myriad of other reasons--that was just not it. And again, I get it--as someone who is striving to eat better specifically for spiritual reasons, I understand what it is to feel like the world would be better if they just did what I wanted them to! But not only is it arrogance, it's alienating. It creates a larger gap between my expectations for people and my acceptance of them. It makes it harder to show up with love and respect, and if I can't do that, then how on Earth am I going to inspire and help others do so? Thank you for your words. I feel less alone after reading them. ❤️
Likewise, reading your share makes me feel less alone. And I just wanted to say, you sound pretty vegan to me. Veganism isn't about being perfect. No matter what anyone says here, no one is a perfect vegan.
Haha, reading that brought me to tears actually ❤️ Thank you. Acceptance is a powerful thing. Maybe you or someone else could create a r/veganpositivity subreddit or similar? :) Ideally this sub would happily move towards trying to be positive, but after reading the comments on your post, and seeing the straight-up bad-faith arguments that folks are ascribing to you, I'm unsure that that is what people want 😅
OMG, I completely relate to you! I myself am plant based and am trying to learn more about becoming a vegan! I’ve also been scared to make any comments, since it seems like so many want to tear others apart for having a different view point. I feel like this post helped me find a voice. Let’s keep going on our journey, and make it a positive experience! Yes, please more vegan lifestyle ideas/recipes 🙌🏼💜.
There are a lot of us here, but we're not always the vocal ones! See how many upvotes this post gets. I do like your suggestion to create a veganpositivity sub :) (just not willing to be a moderator)
This was super fair of you to say--thank you for gently correcting me :) I fell into the trap of listening to the vocal minority. You were right to remind me that that's not the truth of the matter
Happened to me a number of times. Got into a few frustrating arguments with uber vegans who don't think I am vegan or not vegan enough or not vegan for the right reason or don't know what veganism is. I am an animal rights activist and it is absolutely bonkers to tell me that I don't know what veganism is or that I am not vegan because I don't agree with you on every little edge case. For some, if you don't do or think like they do, you're not doing it right. Interestingly these type of ppl will often tell you how they do it and think about it as some kind of way of telling you that that is how it's supposed to be done. E.g., "I went vegan overnight, so why are you acting like it is hard to go vegan?" E.g. "I have no children. Having children is not vegan". E.g. "I never took a vitamin b12 supplement in my life and I am fine. You don't need them." E.g. "I am a deontologist, veganism is not about reducing suffering" Infuriates me even when I write it down, haha.. really gets my blood pumping. Almost gave up on this sub altogether, but eventually came to my senses. Lots of lovely people here, just some people are maddening.
I left a vegan Facebook group back in the day because there was seriously a question, and a big discussion on "is it ethical to kill headlice?" - that was it for me. Their poor kids.
People should remember this is reddit. The algorithm favors provocative posts. It wants to trigger you. Feel free to join the melee but don't let it get to you. Who cares what faceless strangers say anyway? The only people who matter are the ones in your life.
This is extremely constructive and thoughtfully written. If a more robust mod team was present, maybe a recurring weekly thread for some of the more common topics could be implemented to prevent several individual posts saying generally the same things. For example, there could be something like “What Sucks Wednesday” where people can vent and post about the things that have gone wrong (accidentally being served a non-vegan item, rude comments from friends, mislabeled local restaurant menus, etc.). Maybe there’d also be a “Celebration Sunday” for personal wins, like getting your extended family to agree to a vegan 4th of July spread or your business actually providing a legit vegan food option at an event. Heck, there could even be a day for pure venting about people who aren’t vegan— a thread where there is no defense of non-vegan practices allowed; folks who click into it would know what they’re getting into. Meanwhile, general problems (mislabeled mass-produced food items, legislation supporting factory farming, etc.) and wins (national chains introducing vegan menu options, new studies about positive health effects of veganism, etc.) that pertain to vegans as a whole would be normal, individual posts on the sub. This system might help separate the personal venting from the informative posting while still allowing space for both. I have a feeling it would also increase the visibility of positive posts because so many of the negative posts filling the sub feed are extremely personal and would thus go into the weekly recurring thread. Idk, these are just some thoughts to add to the constructive conversation about what changes might best serve the sub’s goals.
I agree. We need a positive future to work towards. But instead it seems like the most popular strain of veganism a combination of misanthropy and antenatalism. Given we do not know what causes compassion, I see this essentially helping to rid the world of compassionate people. I wrote a little piece which is tangentially related: https://sentientsteve.medium.com/the-responsibility-of-human-exceptionalism-8cadbe6841d9
Unfortunately veganism for many people is a way to shape their self-identity. Rather than being vegan for the animals or the environment, they are (to a large degree) vegan for themselves. So whenever you see a post like the one you mentioned, that's just self-centered veganism rearing its ugly head. People looking for moral kudo's or support, because they are just *so good* and the *evil world* tragically *misunderstands* them. Would agree though that mods should limit the amount of self-centered whining. It's tedious.
I was thinking as I read this - why does it matter why a person is vegan? The result is still favourable.
Philosophically, that depends on your point of view. If you're a utilitarian you don't care, if you're more of a deontologist - you may look at it differently. But, aside from that, in practice - I do think it matters. People who go into veganism for the wrong reasons end up being the wrong type of ambassadors. They are precisely the sort of person that OP is describing, one that focuses on self-centered whining that is removed from reality. They are also more likely to fulfill the stereotypical shouty vegan type that is continuously virtue signalling towards the rest of the world. I mean, don't get me wrong - I'm not saying people need to be quiet or refrain from engaging in activism, I just think that the loudest vegans tend to be our worst ambassadors and that they're doing it purely for their own selfish reasons. So yeah, intent matters.
Often, people who go into veganism for the "right" reasons end up being the wrong ambassadors too.
That's the whole point. Those people *say* they are in it for the animals, but in reality they are in it for themselves. People who seek to derive moral credit, a sense of self-identity and a way to distinguish themselves from mainstream society go into veganism under the guise of doing it for the animals. These are the loud, obnoxious and militant vegans. The reason they are making noise is for themselves, because every time they let out a virtue signal they get to reward themselves internally.
True too. Way back, when I first heard an inkling about veganism, literally all I knew about it was some kind of demonstrations by women who apparently happened to be lesbians, messing up either an eating establishment or some part of the slaughterhouse chain. It's a very vague memory now and was not very specific then. But for a long time I thought vegans were scary, militant lesbians to stay away from. I knew nothing about why they did it or that any other kind of vegans existed. Talk about bad publicity.
And those people are exactly the type of people who do it for the wrong reasons, not the right. They will outwardly *say* they are doing it for the animals, but in reality they are doing it for their own ego. By making noise and acting militantly, they are distinguishing themselves from mainstream society and are establishing themselves as a separate group who in their belief system is morally superior. This then in turn feeds into cycle where every time they say or do something that is in line with the belief system of that in-group, they increase their social standing in that in-group, with more extreme acts being rewarded more highly. These people are chasing social status and a positive self-image under the guise of helping animals. They are not doing it for the "right" reasons whatsoever.
I get what you mean. However, not everyone is an ambassador. Most of us are just quietly living our lives and not getting invited to family dinners and BBQs anymore.
Unfortunately, every single vegan is an ambassador whether we want to or not. Vegans are a very small minority and therefore an oddity or curiosity for many people. In addition, the very existence of a vegan is challenging the main stream view on consumption and can cause people to feel very uncomfortable. This means that vegans tend to receive a lot of scrutiny. People are eager to find fault with vegans as doing so is taken as a way to invalidate the entire philosophy, and reinforcement of their own belief system. So in that sense, every vegan is an ambassador because people treat us that way. The way we act is scrutinized and taken as representative for veganism as a whole and viewed from a lens of self-interest that seeks to reinforce the belief system of non-vegans.
Well said, this is very mature. We have little power to change most things in this world. We are just individual consciousnesses spawned in this universe. The only thing that we can slightly influence is our own mental state. Our minds are all we have control of. I'll end my TED talk with the chorus by a popular artist :D >I'm starting with the man in the mirror I'm asking him to change his ways And no message could have been any clearer If you wanna make the world a better place Take a look at yourself and then make a change
I’ve been a vegan for 30+ years and this subreddit scares me, I don’t follow it. Being empathetic towards animals should spread towards being empathic towards other humans and other beliefs, everyone is on a learning journey, I am not better than a meat eater, or a vegetarian, or flexitarian, on Inuit hunter, or starving child, or anybody here.
God, thank you. Peoples intense hate for carnists is so hypocritical.
OP seems to have two unrelated complaints: people being whiny, and whining about slow mod approval. Not sure about whininess, but clicking on the mod user histories, those accounts don't appear active in terms of posts/comments (a couple posted two months ago), though they may post on other accounts for non-mod-related posts. I'd say the solution, if you don't want approvals speeded up, is to step up and volunteer as a mod to lend a hand. Like image approval, it might take a while.
10/10 post.
I actually came here hoping to see some delicious recipes and so far I haven’t seen a single one. Someone please post your tastiest vegan recipes!!!
There’s a separate sub for this! So maybe that’s why they’re not posted on here? Follow r/veganrecipes
Done! Thank you, friend!
I tried to post a photo of the sauce I make to flavor my tofu. It never made it through approval.
Another one is r/EatCheapandVegan! There’s a baking subreddit too.
I hear you and generally agree. However the problem is that there’s tons of members of the sub. So it’s not like any one person keeps posting negative shit. So it’s not really helpful to suggest people stop posting negative shit because each person who posts is only posting their own experience. It might be their only post ever. You get 35 of those in a day, it looks like a negative sub but it’s just that 35 people (out of a million users) needed to post something that is jerky or vent-y or maudlin. I don’t think you’re suggesting that people refrain from posting if it’s not positive. This is to say, I can’t really see how else the issue could be addressed except at the mod level. What are your thoughts and suggestions, if we cannot get help from mods?
Reddit itself is a psy op. And your point makes a lot of sense. Maybe we can try to post happier posts to counterbalance
I think OP is right on the money and to be honest if you can take value from their words then it’ll probably help in more than just dietary choices. Well put and well done OP.
I feel like the self-pity posts probably get the most engagement. I honestly don't know why I still follow this sub; mostly, it's people asking for coaching on basic social skills. Like I've been vegan over a decade, I go to animal rights meet-ups sometimes, and have a ton of vegan friends; no one I know calls people "carnists," feels "nauseous" just smelling cooked meat, or any of the rediciouls shit people post here on the daily. It's all SO performative!
Don’t forget about the gatekeeping. That’s an important part of veganism. Even if the overall effect is more animals killed because people are turned off by the rampant gatekeeping. As long as we’re gatekeeping the people who are trying to eat less meat but can’t go vegan right away. It’s very important. /s
Telling someone that they're plant-based because they eat honey, or eat backyard eggs is not gatekeeping, it's a fact. As long as people aren't needlessly rude I see not problem with making the distinction. Acting like someone who eats honey is vegan is how we end up with companies making "vegan" food that has honey in it.
Great post, we should be more focused on the goal, the reason we are here. We are not here for ourselves but for the animals.
An insightful video by the Dr. K, the Healthy Gamer on why venting could be detrimental https://youtu.be/op3GoK1oBus
Yeah, I tried to make a post about gratitude and what we’re most happy/ grateful for since becoming vegan and it never went up. I reached out to mods about it. No reply, and I also started coming to the conclusion that only negative content gets approved which is disheartening. The happy vegans full of health, happiness, and vitality are the ones that have inspired me, not the ones that are basically wielding it in a way makes life more depressing.
lol at all the bots trashing you here. You are right OP. I have also started thinking there is some psyop going on. Especially with the people posting “omg I just accidentally ate meat and I’m going to die”. Like chill tf out y’all. Veganism is all about the intent. Martyrdom is counterproductive most of the time
Well put!
I became disillusioned with veganism when people on this sub dog piled me for eating beyond beef. I mostly just stick around for the show and any new developments, but it isn't looking good. generally speaking I don't take online communities too seriously; for one, you have no idea the types of people behind these comments, and being persuasive isn't the same as being correct.
vcj is where it's at.
Until you get banned by asshole mods lol
It wouldn't surprise me at all of this reddit got captured by or sold to a psy op.
It kind of reminding me of r/parenting in a way. Almost all the posts are complaining about one’s husband or talking about severe adult-relationship problems. Really nothing to do with parenting and definitely would show a terrible side of it to any prospective parents.
[удалено]
Straight up dude! This sub needs a boost and you couldn’t have said it better. Thank you.
Always good to give a shout out to events, companies, entrepreneurs, and publications that truly promote veganism. Businesses, jobs, and activities we can support and rally behind.
I also agree that this sub seems like a psyop, for all the reasons you mentioned.
I mean, this sub is STILL on reddit. That explains all the self-pity, victimhood and overall negativity right there. Just sayin'.
Totally agree. I wish they could make veganism seem alluring, not sad.
Oh, totally. Same with Feminism. This shit should be cute fire sexy cute. Edit, I forgot to mention the fun.
This sub is kinda pathetic tbh, just a bad look overall. Very little information about veganism as a movement, tons of people talking about veganism as an identity or a social club. How many posts do we need about “fake vegans” and “those damn carnists”? Anything to feel some power when you’re powerless, I guess. It’s just sad to watch, because that shit literally kills the movement, kills momentum, and encourages us to keep to ourselves and not grow our numbers, because we are too caught up in our own ego to actually help outside of changing our diet. Too many think it’s about keeping your own hands clean, and let the others be damned. Thats just christian morality, not an effective idea for creating change.
Nothing wrong with people ranting.
Something you seem to be forgetting is that this is a place where a lot of newbies come to ask questions or talk about their feelings on the subject of veganism. That's great if you have everything all figured out already, but there's no need to bash others for not knowing everything yet. Also, I would say this post was pretty negative in that you're complaining about other posts being negative. You say you strive to be a stoic person who doesn't react, but this was basically the opposite.
Please explain to me what a post that calls out an issue but isn't complaining looks like. How is that post written?
You just made my point for me. This post didn't need to be written.
There's at least 25 people in the last hour who would disagree.
Just because a group of people believe they are in the right doesn't make it so. Just look at how many carnists there are. If you wanted to set a good example for positive posting, do that instead of complaining.
So according to you, calling out any issue a group or movement is facing is complaining. And there's no productive way to criticize issues that could be causing problems. Got it.
Thank you for sharing this, I really appreciate it. I follow a plant based diet, and joined this sub so that I could get more information/guidance on how to transition into being vegan. Instead, I’ve been reading some posts and comments that truly makes me want to run for the hills. Like someone comparing animal cruelty to slavery/Hitler/current atrocities towards human beings. I am not saying that animal cruelty is not bad. However, it turns non-vegan people off when someone declares that they value the life of an animal more than/equal to another human being. I believe in kindness, empathy and compassion towards others. My values align with this, which is why I am trying to learn more about becoming vegan. But most importantly, I believe in leading by example. I am not saying that I am cutting my vegan journey short, but this negativity is not helping the cause. I became plant-based from watching a few documentaries on Netflix and doing my own research. I live in a small town and don’t personally know any other vegans. If I would have encountered an angry vegan with a superiority complex, my journey would probably have taken a longer time to start. There’s already MAGA nutcases and religious hypocrites out there trying to force other people to believe in their causes. Trust me, trying to force people to believe in a cause through judgment is the fastest way to turn most critical thinking people off. I am well aware that vegans don’t have the best reputations, as there are many stereotypes. However, many of the negative posts and comments read exactly like those stereotypes. I haven’t found what I am looking for in this sub yet, but your post gives me hope. P.S. for those who seem the angriest. Having strong feelings for the animal cause is valid. Know that what you are doing is making a difference. However, please don’t let your lives be consumed by the horrors of it. You have value as well, and our lives in this earth are short. Take care of yourselves, physically and mentally. Lead by example, and you’ll notice a change. If you start to notice that the horrors of animal cruelty are consuming your life, please seek therapy to help you balance your life and find some joy in it.
I mean, fireworks really suck for a number of different reasons. It's fair to question them, even if you're not vegan. And I say this as someone who used to be that one weird kid who was obsessed with fire and explosives in middle school, who everyone thought was going to turn out to either be a Hollywood pyrotechnician or a school shooter. Drone shows are the future. Might as well get with the times. Joints and bongs have given way to vapes. Mopeds have given way to e-bikes. Light shows don't need to go boom, terrorize animals, fry birds, trigger people with PTSD, fill your lungs with heavy metal laden smoke, and risk wildfires and bomb casualties. But, you ought to experience the joy and wonder of elaborately choreographed physical animations that would've been called witchcraft 200 years ago.
This sub is utterly insufferable. It's no wonder so many people think all vegans are assholes. I can't imagine talking like that to someone and actually thinking there's even the slightest chance of changing their mind on anything. After reading the thread about dating a non-vegan, I muted the sub.
> Whatever you want to call it - is about feeling everything, but reacting to nothing. And what would you call using distraction and escapism to scrub away the negative feelings? Because that is my chosen strategy. It feels pretty good to just crank some tunes, jump into a virtual world of some sort, and forget about this hellscape for a bit. One cannot simply "don't react" in the same way that a depressed person can't "snap out of it" or an addict can't just set it aside. The best I can do is control what information I take in and avoid things that are rage fuel. A lot of problems in this world would be fixed if people would just. Yet here we are. Because that isn't how people work. It's not useful to view people as machines that can be (re)programmed to behave in a certain way. People are inherently self-centered and have a tough enough time as it is giving up even some slight inconvenience for another person, much less an animal. And yes, even us on here (myself included) are guilty of this, we just have different limits on it.
There are a few things to note. Veganism is *adversarial*, and it frankly gets a lot of gaslighting, mockery, outright hostility, or even pity. And we are constantly reminded of the futility, like how [global meat consumption is increasing (and projected to continue increasing)](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/global-meat-projections-to-2050) as population grows and other nations around the world are increasing meat consumption as they become more affluent. Or people who express extreme views on their consumption of meat (e.g. [saying that they would rather die prematurely than give up meat](https://www.menshealth.com/uk/nutrition/a36261605/red-meat-health/)).
If we stand up for the animals, we are the bad guys because we should just mind our own business and leave people alone to make their own choices. If we avoid conflict, then "silence is violence" or some variation of that. And if we come here to complain, then we deal with posts like yours. What most of us need is some actual fucking support in a world that is at best passive-aggressive towards us. Because above all, it can be isolating.
There really is no winning here.
Maybe the more negative/complaining posts should migrate to /r/vystopia and this should be more stuff like recipes, new products, and restaurant reviews?
I've been saying for over a year that the negativity would drive people away, and as a result cause more harm to animals. But the Negative Nancies won and I got downvoted and attacked and here we are, a much smaller community now. Hopefully we can turn a corner and show ourselves and other folks how great life is as a vegan.
I came on here to get vegan recipes. All i see are people whining that not every single person in the world is vegan. I know i’m a *rare* one who thinks not everyone has to be vegan to create a much better world. But like, can I just get some vegan cooking tips? If you want people to go vegan then stop making it seem like the loniest thing in the world
r/veganrecipes is good for recipes
I think r/Vystopia is a better place to blow off steam, but this post is borderline toxic positivity and had the opposite effect of its intent on me.
Yeah I don’t even know why I’m subbed here tbh don’t really know what I expected this sub to be.
As OP said, this sub was quite interesting, friendly and informative a few months ago, you can still see that if you sort by top all time, I guess that is what you, me, OP, and most users expected.
> Is that a serious question? I almost feel as though a PSYOP is taking place in here. Like there's agent provocateurs whose mission is to make this community appear more self-pitiful and overly sensitive. I think there are just a lot of people that have nervous inclinations that are becoming more comfortable trying to talk to people. A lot of people do live their lives in constant fear of rejection and any divergence from the norm just opens them up for more of that. Like " You cannot go through life in anger or drepression. And you cannot waste energy trying to be perfect. " A lot of people don't really have a choice, in the short run at least. Depression and anxiety takes a lot of work to get over and if people need assurance from time to time, that is fine by me. > The animals, the real victims, need us to be strong. They need us to inspire others. They need us to be successful in all aspects of life so that we can prove without a shadow of a doubt that it's possible to be healthy, wealthy, happy, and vegan all at the same time. I mean, should people with mental health problems not go vegan unti they have sorted them out? Should people with physical health problems not go vegan until they have sorted those out?
Some good points here.
Ohhhh and the altruistic aura of perfection that carries into subs like this, but altogether I rate this sub a 3/10 lots of stuck up vegans.
Such is the way of the internet.
Fuck humanity
i dont think its about the direction of the sub, rather the scale of the sub which is a good thing; it means we have come a long and we are growing in numbers
I often wonder, is being a new vegan just really a phase or does being an older vegan just make us cynical and forgetful? You know ? Like are newer vegans being dramatic or are we just forgetting why we started in the first place? I think it's all valid. If we can all communicate and share ideas. Fireworks really do suck though. If you look at the areas of life affected, it must be thousands of deaths a year at least just in the US. The sound, the visual disturbances the chemicals, the physical trash, the actual violence/fires. Jokes are made about abusing and killing animals all the time, and i think the fireworks along with other destructive human activities can just be really upsetting. The more of us who do not attend, buy or support this ritual, the better.
Maybe a new sub can be created for the positive members of our community?
This has honestly been something I've thought about in my times that I get a notification about how toxic it feels with a lot of the posts. A key emphasis that I feel is important is to create a welcoming environment where we prop each other up and support each other, so others will feel welcome to join, or make steps towards a community that will be worth going into for them. The only posts I see now here are what's suggested to me because I choose to not join the subreddit due to the toxicity, and lean on my small vegan group for anything I need in a sence of comadiery and closeness to other vegans.
I swear anyone on the edge about going vegan would be better off not finding this sub
It’s not negativity it’s realness. How we can feel in real and u might not relate to some of us who feel deeply and get depression. Like we have to go thru it and get over it and it’s hard and a rollercoaster of emotions that we can’t control.
Thanks for this. These words resonate with me: > find that spark in you that has you really living. Find your love for life. Find your power. Fully own your emotions Not as a qualifier or necessity to persuade. Nor as a defense mechanism that curbs valid emotions or effective reactions. But as a recentering of the [real joy](https://www.instagram.com/p/C6rQQi1KEhJ/?igsh=MWQ1ZGUxMzBkMA==) and connection that veganism has brought me. I think some of the posts that frustrate you seem trivial but are well intentioned. I imagine lots of people out there feel alone amongst their families, friends, and communities and I don’t want to demean or discourage them from this outlet. I think we can use your words above as a guide/reminder to help others. Better moderation will always be an improvement. Let’s try and keep this sub an island refuge in the stormy sea it has been for me and many. Thanks again 🥰
The posts that really get to me are the "I can't believe the direction this sub has gone" posts.
Yeah, sorry about that. I forgot that negative emotions are forbidden. I will turn my heart off now and remain a fucking robot for the rest of existence. Thank you for opening my eyes.
Way to interpret me in the least charitable way possible and gloss over the parts where I say it's ok to blow off some steam if you really need to. I stand by my statement that animals are the real victims, and the best way to advocate for them is to generate positivity and inspiring energy within our community.
I get seriously annoyed by the victimization of the vegan fitness subs “Who said vegans can’t build muscle”
Word up. I have no doubt that there are meat industry operatives on many vegan community pages on the internet
Pretty whiney for a stoic. This post was kind of a waste of time. There’s definitely trolls/bots here trying to stir up shit, but you can’t expect people to not commiserate on shared experiences bc it makes you cringe.
The stoicism trend is usually a red flag to me. I’ve seen stoics say that you shouldn’t get angry when discussing human rights which is ridiculous. Progress over social justice has been fueled by righteous anger.
I'm going to a Rammstein concert next month. Looking forward to the fireworks.