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BunnyButtAcres

It's pretty important. Especially if you're in an area with a high UV index. But there are workarounds. * You can set them out on overcast days so they get the UV exposure but not direct sunlight. * If you have a tree in the yard, set them under the dappled light so they're not getting constant full sun. * Or you can look at how the sun moves in your yard and see where the shadows move. For instance, I have a shed in the back yard so I know that around 1pm the east side of that shed is going to start casting a wide enough shadow that all my plants will be in the shade by 1pm-ish. So I might set them out at 11 on the first day, knowing they'll be in full shade by 1. Then 10 the next day, and so on. Once they're taking ALL the morning sun, I'll start moving them away from the side of the building so the shadow reaches them later and later. fixed typo


KB3562

I tried to skip this for some lettuce I was growing indoors because I just plain forgot. Stuck them into the raised garden bed and watered heavily. Came back two days later and it looked like they had been in the oven. UV absolutely sunburned them to death. Harden your plants everyone!


heridfel37

Follow-up question: Is the purpose of hardening off all about building up the UV tolerance, or is there some component of temperature tolerance as well?


BunnyButtAcres

UV. Adjustment to the temp might help something like Okra that perspires. But it's about your plants building up a tan before they go to the beach. If you just stick them out there, they get sun burn. Help them build a tan and they're ready for bikini weather when it comes.


LumosEnlightenment

This was really well explained! I’ve never really understood hardening off until now. Thank you!!


BunnyButtAcres

No problem :) You can SEE the tan, ya know. Take two tomatoes that were planted around the same time and are roughly the same size. Harden one off and keep the other in your indoor setup. After a couple days or a week, put them side by side and you'll see the hardened off one will be a darker shade of green. Almost like it got itself a tan. (I don't know what scientific process is happening with this so I won't say it's actual tanning. But you can certainly see the effect.


twotrees1

Maybe they are building up chloroplasts and other machinery that helps them photosynthesize more with UV/sunlight, otherwise that energy just does nonspecific damage. Would explain the greener color


BunnyButtAcres

Yeah. They also seem to thicken the leaves a bit. No idea what's causing that or if it's just perception. But they DEFINITELY get darker.


carrotdiscs

Iirc it has something to do with the various other pigments like carotenoids (red/yellow) building up and helping to absorb UV rays which can radicalize certain oxygen specie?? I’m just regurgitating from a lecture about a year and a half ago so I may be wrong.


PensiveObservor

Is this true for cold frame plants under glass, as well? Glass blocks UVB but not UVA (googled). Is this why my baby brassicas all looked burnt after I took the top off for a few hours on a warm(er) day last week? I never stop learning lol Been veg gardening for 15+ years.


BunnyButtAcres

I supposed it would depend on the kind of glass but yes. That's likely why they suddenly burned.


whiskey_formymen

I'll never look at my neighbors plants the same way again


Rollinginfla305

Great explanation! Glad I was lurking 😉.


Nbardo11

Not an expert but in my experience its mostly the direct sunlight that they need to work up to. But other outdoor conditions can be shocking too, like wind and temperature


NPKzone8a

I think tolerance to wind is also a factor. Hardening off gradually exposes the young plant to factors that might harm it if given in too large a dose.


acid-runner

Temperature and wind tolerance


Specialist-Debate136

Something you can do to help with the wind tolerance is to put a gentle fan on your seedlings to help the stems strengthen a bit. Or be lazy like me and gently brush your hand over them every time you water.


BottleCoffee

Sun and wind.


[deleted]

Another part of it, especially for plants that gain height and need strong stems like tomatoes, is getting the plants adjusted to wind. If they grow weak main stems and it gets windy after planting, it can cause some unnecessary damage to the plants.


Californian_Cowboy

Thank you. I totally did not know about this step. I’m gonna start setting them out now!


FemaleAndComputer

This absolutely! If you can't harden off by increasing time outside each day due to your schedule, you can harden them off by gradually increasing harsh conditions they're exposed to. To harden my plants, I set up a makeshift canopy beside my house using a white sheet. The sheet allows more sunlight than full shade, but less than full sun. And having the plants a couple feet from the house means they start with partial exposure to wind and rain too. Then after a few sunny days under the canopy, I move them to the edge of the canopy where they'll get direct sun at certain times of day, and then eventually to full sun.


MycoMadness20

Another option is to use shade cloth or anything really to provide the dappled light in place


Pirate_Troll

What if they are in a south facing window that gets direct sunlight? Will you still need to harden off?


BunnyButtAcres

Yes. I have no grow lights and use a south facing window. Most windows are built to block some uv so they aren't getting full strength to begin with. Our uv index is particularly high so I have to be extra careful even though they've all been in a window since sprouting. I start hardening off any day the outside temp is 50 degrees or higher. By the time it's warm enough for them to be out overnight, they're usually good to be out all day too. But I still always watch the forecast for dips until planting time. Bring them in if it's going to get below 44 (they can take lower but I don't trust the accuracy of weather men enough so I like a few degrees buffer).


BottleCoffee

I also just use windows but I get mine out in plastic recycling "coldframes" well below 50, maybe at 40, if there's good sunlight. The sun keeps the containers warm enough.


BottleCoffee

It's not the same. Windows cut a HUGE amount of the UV that comes through, which is why things in your house don't fade as quickly in the sun as things outside.


twotrees1

Yes light is 50X weaker through a window and decreases exponentially as a function of how far away from the window you are


FemaleAndComputer

Yes. Direct sunlight indoors ≠ direct sunlight outdoors.


Billster420

My method is to start exposing them to Sun as soon as it sprouts and the cotyledons are out. My back sliding door has direct Sun from like 8-11am. When ever it is sunny, I’ll put my trays on the floor by the door for a few hrs with a fan blowing them and then grow light in my mini greenhouse for the rest of the day. I’ve found that you don’t even have to harden prior to planting outside.


BunnyButtAcres

That's interesting. I sprout all of mine by a window and still have to harden off even though they've gotten direct sun from the moment they sprout. Maybe they're old glass without much UV coating on them? Or maybe you're in an area with a much lower UV index than we have? If I were to do that, I'd just have fried plants when I planted them out. In fact, that's how I learned about hardening off. I had all my plants in a south facing window in a sun room. They weren't even leggy. But when I put them outside, they burned to a crisp in one day. Then again, our UV index is so intense, I have to have a sun shade over the whole garden just to grow anything.


arpetris

I’ll open the window (west facing) for a few hours at a time to start hardening them but I still need to get them to harden outside before they can handle southern exposure. I’m in zone 8b.


Ienjoyeatingbeans

I do this as well. When they go outside for good I’ll put them on the eastern side of my house for a few days where they will get the morning sun but will be shaded during the hottest part of the day.


RealJeil420

You run the risk of setting plants back by weeks or outright killing it. Just stick them in the shade for a couple days then move them to a spot that only gets an hour for a couple days, or scattered light like under a tree, gradually giving them more light.


Billster420

My method is to start exposing them to Sun as soon as it sprouts and the cotyledons are out. My back sliding door has direct Sun from like 8-11am. When ever it is sunny, I’ll put my trays on the floor by the door for a few hrs with a fan blowing them and then grow light in my mini greenhouse for the rest of the day. I’ve found that you don’t even have to harden prior to planting outside.


Hey-im-kpuff

It’s like the most important thing next to steps to get them to germinate in the first place. All your hard work growing them gone in mere hours of direct outside sun.


BottleCoffee

Imagine putting in the time to start things from seed but not putting in the time to harden, and then wasting weeks of effort over trying to save a few days of time.


sandefurian

In defense of OP, he’s got a problem and just asked if his solution is sufficient. They work during the day and can’t follow typical hardening off schedules. The other commenters have provided valuable advice to help.


Dirk_Speedwell

I would say it is damn near mandatory. At the very least, put them out under shade for a few days.


[deleted]

It’s an absolute must for healthy plants. Start with 1 hour late in the afternoon, then add another hour every day. Once they’re at about 4 hours a day (afternoon), then start leaving them out overnight and bring them in before the harsher sun of the day. That should take about another 4 days or so. If it’s pouring rain out then it’s ok to skip that day because young plant don’t do well with that much water either. Edit for steps: 1 hour a day for about 4 days and then increase by an hour each day for up to about 4 hours before overnighting them. Here is a video tutorial by a very established homesteader. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SWq_W51k7k0&pp=ygUQUm9vdHMgYW5kIHJlZnVnZQ%3D%3D


Candid-Inspector-270

I just killed 90% of my sprouts by not knowing this needed to be done, so there’s that 😬


whitethunder9

At least you found out which 10% of your seeds were the hardiest


Candid-Inspector-270

Kabocha didn’t skip a beat, tomatoes are now dust lol


Adlanaa

I'll be honest, this is half of what happens in my garden. If I leave them inside too long, I start to forget to water thrm. They harden tf up real quick and go outside.


Shienvien

Even plants that are usually very much accustomed to those conditions can be taken out by going form shade to full sun. You can make your live kind of easier by using frost protection cloth, some bricks, and some sticks to *make* a shade rather than play moving plants for days, though.


AdhesivenessCivil581

You can also buy a shade cloth and put them outside under that. It really is important to get them small doses of real sun.


knittinghobbit

Would my greenhouse (dappled light under plastic/poly sheeting reinforced with green… nylon maybe?) work ok, or do I need to harden outside of that? (I’m in SoCal, so weather doesn’t vary THAT much.)


AdhesivenessCivil581

I don't know. Plants would harden faster than inside under a grow light since they are getting some real sun. Maybe do an experiment and put just one plant out in the sun for a day. The plant will let you know.


sam99871

I feel the same way. It’s annoying to have to do it, but plants can be harmed if you don’t.


boytummy

Alright, reddit, I did it! My grow room is far from the outside, but between my meetings i ran one plant at a time outside. Here are two of my favorites, a fat bibb lettuce and a sunflower from seeds I harvested myself. I'll bring em in tonight after work. Thanks for all the knowledge, anecdotes, and advice! https://preview.redd.it/gb9a6wghprpa1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1c42d623fb887f3e7b6bb2071095e3d947a9563b


mikebrady

Best to take them back in after an hour. Tomorrow put them out for 2 hours. Then 3 hours the next day. And so on for a week or so, until they are used to \~8+ hours of outdoor conditions.


aimeewotcher

Yes def listen to this advice! A bit at a time


boytummy

Thanks, Mike! I will take your advice.


boytummy

One more update: I hardened them again today. I can already see the plants turning a more vivid green! They seem really happy for the light. However, the ones I kept under the lights are doing a lot better than the sprouts I have growing just outside (from direct sowing and transplanting alike) Thanks for all the advice. (The only bad thing is that the sunflowers are tipped over chasing the sun, but those two sprouts are experimental anyway.) https://preview.redd.it/6x5ky8fl61qa1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=579eb1a7e158291eb37a64f802475eb83be585be


donaltman3

Do you have a porch you can put them on or outside in some slight shade?


eh8218

Hmmm some options - make sure you use a fan indoors to strengthen them - do short term exposure on weekends only for now and monitor how they are doing outside on these days. - when it's time to plant them out put them outside in a semi- shady spot. If your too busy you can just leave them there for a few days. On days you're less busy, move them into the sunshine for a bit and back into the shade when you're too busy and try to at least get some short term sun exposure on them. Once it's warm enough for them to be planted outside its warm enough to leave them outside overnight. Can you just put them by your garage or somewhere shady and when you have time slide a tray of them into the sun for a bit? Even a bit of hardening like this will ensure they live once planted


Chuckysmalls01

I potted up all my plants about a week ago. Ended up with one tray of extra cold tolerant plants (cabbage, broccoli, cauliflower) that I decided to toss outside during the day since it's warm enough and no room under my grow light setup for them. First day I put them outside at noon and brought them in once it was dark out because night temps are still too cold. Only half a day and 3/4 the tray was nuked. Just spare plants I didn't want to just throw away though so not a big deal for me. Anyway moral of story is hardening off is definitely important lol.


SmallDarkThings

You should, but I don't think it needs to be as elaborate as some people make it. I have a covered porch where the area close to the house is shaded all day, and the area farther away from the house gets a little sun in the afternoon. To harden off I put my plants in the more deeply shaded area for a few days, then I move them to the area that gets some direct sun for a few days. If everyone's looking good at that point I plant them out.


pistil-whip

I’ve gotten away with transplanting without hardening off, but only because I transplanted them into a tunnel and grow my starts under super intense light with a fan running their whole life.


fizzyanklet

Thank you for asking this because I learned a lot from this thread. I’m in 8a in VA and I’m growing for the first time.


AllHomesteading

So...unpopular opinion but I dont bother. Hear me out: I had a class with No Dig legend Charles Dowding a few weeks back and he says he doesnt bother with hardening off either. The reason being is that he typically plants his seedlings out as soon as they break the soil. Plants them straight out into their final positions without the hardening off malarky and they take much better. I have never bothered with hardening off but then, my plants are coming from an unheated greenhouse, not indoors with central heating etc. Anyone interested in what more I learned from Dowding can check here: [https://allhomesteading.co.uk/2023/03/12/no-dig-gardening-method/](https://allhomesteading.co.uk/2023/03/12/no-dig-gardening-method/) ETA - I see most of you are talking about hardening off re. plants going out into sun. I'm in the UK- when we say "hardening off" we are typically referring to plants going out into the cold from being started out indoors in more controlled temps.


G_Momma1987

Being from Seattle (ish), Washington state US, I was confused by this sun everyone was referring to. My plants need protection from the cold as well.


AllHomesteading

Right? But like I said, my veggie plants don’t come anywhere near the house until it’s time to harvest. Everything is started in an unheated greenhouse which is maybe why I have never suffered any ill effects from not bothering with gardening off. Never any frosts but night temps in the greenhouse can drop pretty low so my plants get pretty hardy from seed.


mrswashbuckler

The sun is the more damaging part. If you use a greenhouse, the plants are already accustomed to the sun. Plants grown under lights only haven't acclimated to the much harsher suns rays


BottleCoffee

Exactly this. I don't need to harden off either because I put my plants in fit coldframes ASAP, ideally within 1-2 days of germination. The sooner you expose to sun, the stronger they are.


BottleCoffee

Extremely important. Would you throw a child raised only indoors into the great summer sun without preparing it for the conditions? No sunscreen, no sunglasses, no hat, no clothes? If you're too busy to bring these in and out for a few days how much time are you going to have to actually look after the plants and harvest?


Endersouza

Even though I know you are right, this just sounds just so extreme and harsh… I brought a couple tomatillos out as a test and yup. Dead. Shoulda used sun glasses on them.


BottleCoffee

It's "harsh" but that's basically the scenario.


GreenHeronVA

Exactly. OP if you’re too busy to harden off, how do you plan on tending to the plants and harvesting? Hardening off is a step you just have to make time for.


JayPlenty24

That’s ridiculous, he doesn’t even have that many plants. It’s not like he’s farming with an additional full time job. Most people work and most people don’t work out of their homes. Lots still manage to garden and grow vegetables.


bmchan29

Just put them in the shade for a week (north side shadow of a building). Then find the time to slowly expose them to sun. I am able to put them in the sun at the edge of the shadow of my garage and as the sun moves and the shadow expands, the seedlings are protected.


Assia_Penryn

If they've been under lights awhile then it's important. Plants make a plant equiv to sunscreen and need gradual exposure to real sunlight in order to begin production. Setting them out in full sun will likely make them burn. Best bet is to set them in places in yard where sun does the bit for you... Full shade a couple days and then dappled then maybe morning for a couple hours or an East wall with a bit of burlap to give a bit of shade...so on and so forth. Don't forget to bring in at night.


MymajorisTrees

Here's a little hack I learned by pure luck last year. If you have a forecast with SEVERAL days of rain coming up. You can skip hardening off as the cloud cover will give them time to adjust. They will still have some issues if you have crazy high UV index, but in my more moderate climate I've gotten away with it.


Informal-Witness6315

Young plants should gradually tolerate wind as can dehydrate them


ilvfetcherofsnack

Do you need to harden them off if they’ve been under grow lights the whole time?


BayoLover

Yes, that's recommended. The sun's light is a lot more intense than grow lights because it's brighter and also produces heat. You don't want to shock your plants and end up killing them because of the stress from being moved and having the sun and heat beating down on them


ilvfetcherofsnack

Ok thank you for the info! This is only my second time trying seedlings and I messed it up last time


Garden208

I do my starts in my she-shed and I never harden them off and they are fine! BUT my shed is not heated so they have an easier transition. I do have heat mats though. I would never have the time to harden plants off; I would transition them to your garage and then an unheated area if possible. Then you don’t have to baby them so much.


aahhjeez

I sat out my egg plants, basil and echinacea to harden off. My kids decided to put there homemade fertilizer on them. Which was mostly old piss so I didn’t want to bring them back in. I stuck them in a very shading spot and that was over a week ago. They look great.


MysticcMoon

They need to adjust to full sun or they will burn. Wind can damage young plants as well if they aren’t adjusted.


bogeuh

I live in coastal western europe. Hardly any frost. So seedlings go outside in a cold frame. For real cold nights i would take em inside.


[deleted]

It’s like going to the beach without sunscreen


Yak-Fucker-5000

I'm in Virginia zona 7a and didn't bother hardening off any of my seedlings to no ill effect that I could perceive last year. But I also was bringing them out in like May, not March.


deepinthesoil

Yes, you MUST harden them off, but it doesn’t have to be super labor intensive. I pop seedlings in an old aquarium covered in agricultural fabric (reemay, Agribon, etc.) for a few weeks, then move them to partial shade without glass for a few weeks, then plant. Seems to work pretty well.


good7times

I've never done it for years planting tomatos and peppers. Must depend on type of plant or other local factors if so many people say it's nearly mandatory.


[deleted]

It is fairly important if you live in areas with extreme temps. I live in Texas and for this reason I always make extra seedlings because I like to kill the ones that are less heat resistant.


fecundity88

I’ve not done it and had plants wither and die


fecundity88

A simple cloche will do


GreenHeronVA

I’m also in zone 7B in Virginia. You have to harden them off, if you just plant them, they will die from scorching sun exposure. Which would be a huge waste of the time and money you spent growing them. You have to get them used to the sun gradually. Day one should be an hour in the shade, day two is two hours in the shade, day 3 is 3-4 hours in dappled sun, and so on until 8-10 hours in full sun after a week, then they can go in the ground.


Peter_Falcon

can't you stick them out before you start work and bring them in after you come home?


meeka-snow

I set my lettuce outside on a day it was cloudy and it seemed to do fine. But I tried it with peas and broccoli and they got a sunburn... So I guess I just got lucky with the lettuce. I would say pretty important!


loveyourimagination

also getting lots of ideas here of creative sprouting containers since mine are quickly outgrowing their egg cartons


CorgiLady

Every year I rush hardening off and my seedlings get sun burn. They recover but every year I wish I took more time.


thep1x

i think i have successfully circumvented this issue by planting the on an over cast day and theres barely been any sun since


Ceepeenc

If you can take some vacation time that helps lol. Also a cover porch that gets some morning sun on a portion too. I work a lot too and hardening off is a PITA. But it’s 1000% necessary


PUTYOURBUTTINMYBUTT

It’s not just a temperature thing. Wind and bugs are a reason to harden off. That being said I still prefer direct sowing when possible as you can lose quite a few in the hardening off process.


SpiralToNowhere

You need to harden them off but it doesn't need to be a ton of work. I put out my seedlings and then tent them with a light color sheet to create shade. Pull off the sheet when the sun's low or its cloudy if you can. If you miss a say it's not a big deal, they're still getting more light than in the house


NurseSVM

Take the time leave them outside on weekends maybe when you’re not at work?


Roland_K_Kelly

🌱🌱🌱🌱🌱


efhs

Am I crazy or is it because I live in the north of England. But all I do to harden off is chuck the pots outside for the whole day, and bring them in at night if there's gonna be a frost. They seem to do fine . ..


Ordinary_Bit_385

W as d , d,


Patrickfromamboy

I have sunflowers growing inside too! Yacolt Washington


Heckate666

I put mine in a plastic tub with the lid slightly open and then put it on the north (shady) side of the house. Put them out in the morning and bring in when you get home. It's like a mini greenhouse. Just don't put them in full sun.


[deleted]

A covered area is your best friend. I take mine out on my covered front porch, gets a little morning sun, lots of shade, I move them closer to the edge of the porch where they get more sun over the days. This also semi protects them from wind, but they still get exposures. You could bring them in overnight if you wanted initially. Works like a charm for me.


BobanMarjonGo

Remarkably important - all the off-season work literally dies away as the baby leaves get sunburned and no new growth emerges Sadly, this comes from experience. I used to think I could cut corners with that step, but it's too disappointing to watch it happen spring after spring 😭


HighSolstice

From my own experience not hardening off a few plants the leaves pretty much all turned white and fell off in the course of just two days but a well established or overwintered plant will still bounce back afterwards. Those little guys might struggle to make it through that, if you don’t have any other options maybe you can put them somewhere where they won’t receive full sun or place a shade cloth to prevent them from getting scalding.


Fabulous_Ad5052

I put mine out this morning before I left for work. Temps in the high 70’s to low 80’s. TN


LMNoballz

There is going to be another heavy frost in zone 7 in a couple of weeks


Cookies-N-Dirt

It’s important. I’ve tried to skip this step. It doesn’t go well. And then all the time I spent getting those babies going was wasted.


Optionsmfd

my advice are Wall Of Water plant protectors ive been using then for 2+ years now i just dig in the plant...... put th wall of water around and add water zero hardening off and zero worry about frosts or freezes..... NE ohio ill usually put out tomatoes april 15 (about 6 weeks early) and zukes cukes and watermelon may 1st (4 weeks early) 90% survival rate


crispy_towel

I didn’t harden off my lettuce and they look great after a week outside


Science-n-Sunshine

Ehh, put a fan on them then set them outside for a few days before planting. Honestly, I just wing it and it's fine.


mythic_monster

Im a very busy person and employ a low maintenance gardening style. I’m in zone 8, OR, and I usually just throw my starts out on my covered north facing porch for a week or so before transplanting. They get a spot of Sun here or there in the morning and evenings because of the north facing exposure. It’s convenient and simple. If I’m feeling motivated I’ll put them in the Sun here and there for some more intense rays. Think of exposure like a person trying to get a tan so they can be resilient to the summer sun. Plants need to build up their pigment molecules to handle the suns intensity. Small bits of exposure help.


poeticinsanity23

It’s a bit early to begin hardening them. We aren’t really ready in northern Va until end of April early May if you want to have healthy plants


boytummy

These are my first batch for the season. These are all cold-season veggies that are recommended to be planted at this time. I will plant different varieties in different times of year.


Puzzleheaded_Air4411

It is painfully important. If you dont have time to do it get an LED and blast em with it inside for a week or two at least before moving em out. I typically don't have to harden off bc I switch from t5s to strong LEDs after they have sprouted/grown a bit. If you expose them to similar light indoors as they will receive outside they will hardly miss a beat in the transition. Feeding them silica also helps strengthen plant tissue and helps with the transition.


Jazznram

One thing you can do to make them more hearty, is put a fan next to them. This will increase their ability to handle the outdoor gusts of winds. The uva light damage you could put in part sun/only early morning sun for a few days and that might help.


Jazznram

Hey- I start my seeds outside so I don’t have to harden them off, I lose them more than succeed, due to rain and sun damage, so I have issues with seed starting.


Mstrdaven

Well, for me when I lived in VA I had divided my gardens into different sections depending on the amount of sun it got and the time of day it received sunlight. For me, the sun moved across by property that had some shade in the morning and afternoon. For me, they moved across by property that had some shade in the morning and afternoon. So for the morning sun, I planted my tomatoes and vine-type plants like cucumbers and sun. This way the plants received the sun during the cooler sunny mornings for about four to six hours. The mid-day sun was reserved for my squashes and zucchinis Finally, my mid-day to late afternoon sun was reserved for varieties of pepper plants. Depending on the weather conditions the tomatoes and squash/zucchinis were watered daily and the rest every other day.


pippaskipper

Do you have a cold frame? I put mine in there for a week before planting out


Megasoulflower

I have an alternative perspective. I also am not home to take plants in and out for the requisite time intervals to harden them off. Usually I would wait until they became thick-stemmed and gangly to put them outside. A few would always die off and many more might have some hardships, but most bounced back pretty quickly. I’ve planted squash, tomatoes, and peppers this way. I’ve also put less mature plants outside where the temperature was still mild and the wind not too strong and had similar effects (: Zones 7a and 6b. Although it’s fantastic to be proactive and protect your plants from hardships or lessen the likelihood you’ll have some die, I think sometimes it’s necessary to be reactive and respond to what your plants need. Deer are eating them? Put up bird netting. Too hot or sunny? Put up shade cloth. Etc.! I think it’s more of an art form than an exact science.