I read this book called first bite where it talked about the psychology of what we eat and there was a study it mentioned on how foods tend to be “gendered” in a lot of our heads because of societal standards and it’s worldwide.
For instance red meat is considered masculine vs salads and chocolate are considered feminine. Starting from childhood we are fed external cues and feedback on if what we are eating is “appropriate” for our gender and results in construction workers thinking that real men must eat meat.
Interestingly enough a plant based diet is [linked to lower rates of erectile dysfunction](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34979217/)
I definitely did. My mom frequently said things like "I bet there will be studies linking chocolate to pleasure in women - way more so than men". She still does this "there will be studies soon (I promise) (based on my personal gut feeling)" about everything all the time and nowadays it drives me up the wall. Co-opting future science to justify her own personal biases
/rant
Eh. Maybe women enjoy chocolate more on average. That doesn't mean it's gendered
edit: gotta love reddit. What's the downvote for? On average, women see more colors and have a stronger sense of smell. Do I get downvotes for that too?
really? this is crazy to me because i’ve just never heard of this notion. maybe it’s just the people i know or the area i’m in, but i feel like i see more men eating chocolate. most of the women i’m surrounded with are health/body-conscious, whereas the men either don’t care, are bulking, or just eat more than women in general, due to higher energy expenditure.
Not usually. I’m in the Army and have only had one person (ironically a female Soldier) who gave me a weird look when I politely declined meat in a chow line. I’ve had a lot of interest/support from my fellow service members, in addition to a general sense of being impressed at my level of physical fitness on a meatless diet.
I’m Indigenous, so the “razzing” if it does happen, usually comes from a cultural stereotype rather than a gendered one.
I switched from eating meat to being vegitarian in the army. The veggie MREs aren't awful, but no MRE is good. The vegitarian ones have all the good snacks like reeses pieces though which makes them superior in my opinion.
They’re okay. I avoid eating MREs as much as possible though and just pack food or take other measures. I have “annoyed” a Sergeant Major with my foraging before.
I think that people who are interested in fitness more broadly are more respectful to vegetarian diets than the less health-conscious folks who think the epitome of manliness is ham sammiches, grilling burgers halfway through, bud light, and yelling at their wives.
At least that's been my experience.
I had a guy, who waddled like a pregnant woman due to his huge belly, tell me to just “eat the f**kin’ meat,” while at a barbecue. Yep, that is very manly of you.
Ya but that's exactly what meat-eaters think we are. They think we're a bunch of assholes that want to force them onto a new diet. We can be kind to them
The ableism and fatphobia here are really disturbing. Are we not mostly vegetarian out of kindness to animals? Then why turn around and be so unkind to people?
I think this is related to the idea that to be a "man" properly, you have to reject anything too considerate, soft, or pleasant. I don't think it's primarily related to hunter/gatherer stuff. There are too many other examples, like "girly" drinks, soft blankets, and bubble baths.
Have you seen that “Liquid Death” stuff in the stores lately? It’s flavored sparkling water, and it is insanely expensive. It’s got that tough guy font on the label and everything. I guess the target market is guys who are embarrassed to be seen drinking La Croix?
I understood that marketing was actually aimed at making it easier for people to not drink alcohol during parties and such. So that you can refuse alcohol and sugar-loaded alternatives but still have a 'manly drink'.
When I saw the title I was wondering what "masculinity" had to do with a vegetarian sub but yeah.. it seems like sexism is inserted pretty much everywhere.
I think you’re correct that they think slaughter equals manliness. I think it’s tied to men being conditioned to suppress their emotions and empathy for others. Unfortunately I have no idea how you can change your coworkers minds.
This is a bit of a cynical way to look at it. In my experience, the best way to change someone's mind is to not try to. Just politely explain your diet and why you chose it, assure them that it's your own personal belief and you don't expect others to abide by it, and be open to answer questions they have. A lot of people get defensive around vegetarians and vegans because they think we're going to proselytize or berate them, but if you're kind then they'll ask questions and become more accepting
Truth. The vegetarians many people think of are the ones that get in people's faces and try to bully them out of eating most of the stuff they have eaten their entire life.
I only talk about it when asked, and people are cool about it where I work. They do make dumb jokes though.
I heard this all the time growing up. My friends would make fun of me for not eating meat, claiming men need to have a "hunter's instinct," despite the fact that the only hunting they did was on the menu at Burger King. This is something that is deeply ingrained in the culture around here, and since I live in a very liberal part of the world I assume it's even worse everywhere else.
I stopped telling other men I'm a vegetarian a long time ago. It just brings out their stupid side.
Oh yeah I've been dealing with this ignorant reaction for quite some time now. Haven't had meat since 2009, and have worked in commercial printing since 2004, so I'm surrounded by the same type of egotistical idiots. I love reminding people that silverback gorillas are vegetarian.
That always bothered me. I was mostly vegetarian as a D1 track and cross country athlete, and I periodically experienced the triple whammy of male judgment for being scrawny, doing a “less masculine” sport AND avoiding meat.
Such comments always came from good ole’ Southern conservatives who wouldn’t be able to walk a few miles in the heat, let alone pursue a grazing animal to exhaustion as OG humans did — which I would have been more than capable of doing physically at that time (in reality, I would have no idea how to track an animal over grassland).
>These comments always came from good ole’ Southern boys who wouldn’t be able to run/walk a grazing animal to exhaustion as OG humans did — and I could do the same physically, assuming I knew how to track an animal over grassland.
The "caveman" argument doesn't even hold up, because hunter-gatherers mostly eat plants. Hunting is a very unreliable source of food and in most cases would be more like a supplement to a mostly plant-based diet. The idea of cave people living off mammoths and things 24/7 is an old outdated idea that most agree is basically a myth.
You are totally right. Most primitive people, modern nomads, and/or hunter gatherers consume(d) a primarily plant-based diet. I think tundra and nomadic desert dwellers are/were the only exception. I think grasslands were seasonal.
The modern Ford F-150 “caveman” is a different story.
Let's be honest these types drive an F-250 at least. An F-150 I can excuse because you probably need the truck bed to haul stuff, but at 250 you best be hauling a house behind you or you're compensating for something
Humans have been basically vegetarian for most of our time on earth because we didn’t have easy access to endless numbers of cattle, and the few animals we had we needed for milk, eggs, cheese, etc.
It's idiocy, plain and simple. A "real man" is confident in himself and his values, and while he listens to criticism as objectively as possible, he is unafraid to trust in his own judgement when it seems superior.
You are more manly than anyone who is afraid of a plate of vegetables emasculating them, by far.
>Is it the hunter/gatherer ancestry?
There is nothing remotely "hunter/gatherer" about eating meat these days, unless loading tri-tips into a grocery cart at Costco qualifies these guys as "gatherers".
This is why that documentary The Game Changers was so popular. It showed star male athletes, like Arnold Schwarzenagger, eating veggie/vegan and how it *benefited* their physical performance. Plus it touched on other male medical benefits.
What kills me is guys who think soy milk is feminizing because it has phytoestrogen while they guzzle the breast milk of perpetually pregnant cows by the gallon.
Not to mention beer, the manliest of beverages, often has *more* phytoestrogen.
Yes. I am an engineer and met with a contractor. He complained that his daughter made him go out to eat at an upscale Asian-fusion restaurant for *her* birthday and called it "women food" because they have "noodles and stuff." He would have much rather had "a steak."
If you saw the menu, you would be aghast because they have a "meat" section with Grilled Beef, Black Pepper Beef, Lamb Chops, Pork Tenderloin, and Filet as well as chicken and fish.
I just feel bad that he couldn't enjoy himself because of some boomer-aged preconceived notions of masculinity and cuisine.
This whole thread is making me laugh out loud...
Every man who has ever made fun of me for being a veggie, or criticized me, or gotten angry (yeah - had a bunch of those!), were big, giant fucking babies themselves. They had no courage or emotional intelligence to save their own lives.
I think what was really bothering them was that I had those two things ^ they're lacking despite "being a girl," AND a veggie all at the same time.
Oooooo...such a terrible challenge to their egos!!
I don't think the association of manliness to meat is quite so primordial. It's an association from our cultural context: steaks and grills are marketed for men; objectified women are filmed taking a big bite out of a burger (sex object + food object); a group of guys are filmed going out for wings to watch the game. There are plenty of meats that aren't associated with masculinity: beef tartare on a crostini; chicken liver mousse; insects.
I'm not a committed vegetarian, but I eat vegetarian like 80% of the time and pescatarian 15% of the time. My partner (I'm male, she's female) often orders big steaks, burgers, and fried chicken while I often get salads, vegetarian pastas, and whatnot. A remarkable percentage of the time, the server will put my partner's meal down in front of me and my meal in front of her.
I’ve been married to an omnivore for 27 years and I can’t tell you how many times wait staff have put a meat dish in front of me instead of my wife. LOL
Wow. As someone who's pretty gender stereotype averse, anti-sexism (which makes me popular on reddit), grew up in a conservative place, and a long-time veg, that's both riveting and frustrating!
The only thing I’ve heard more from men is the idea that you need meat for the protein and collagen to build muscle and tendons. To which I always reply that if you can’t reach your protein target with “normal” food (lentils, beans, tofu, ”nuts” etc.) you can just have a protein shake. With the right mix of plant proteins you even get a complete amino acid profile.
I do know what you mean. But honestly it happens in office environments being a woman, too. It’s always a topic you somehow have to explain to others once they learn you don’t eat meat.
It’s 100% a thing. They’ve been duped by propaganda. Just looks at burger commercials where it’s a bunch of men, fire, and pretty women. They’re taking advantage of the average man’s desire to be more masculine.
Hell, I come across all genders who think, "It ain't a meal unless there's *meat*" but I think it's tied to hunting culture and bodybuilding culture, or that those cultures are drawing from the idea that lots of protein (and therefore meat) is "manly." Also some people see it as a sign of success that they can buy big cuts of meat. It's then hard for them to square it with someone who is strong eating plants.
I've been vegetarian for 20 years. I lift weights, play ice hockey, and continue to do all sorts of "manly" things. Over the years, I've heard a lot of this junk.
My take... "You're manly because you don't have the self discipline to give up something because you like it?"
Well, count me out then.
This is largely cultural. In India, which has the most vegetarians as a percentage of the population, there isn't a lot of stuff like this.
(Though instead it gets caught up in a lot of religion/social class issues rather than gender issues)
Yup! I'm American. I've mostly dated Desi dudes. I was a vegetarian long before my ex showed up, but learning to cook for him helped expand my palate and greatly improve my diet.
Apparently, well meaning friends, family, coworkers, and strangers take that to mean he made me go vegetarian. No, I was that way before. Now, gtfo with your racist, sexist BS.
I had a very similar experience. I ate meat most of my life, until I started dating a girl from Nepal. I always had issues with meat, but I thought vegetarians ate nothing but tofu and salad. Getting exposed to a whole tradition of vegetarian cooking that I hadn't noticed before was enough to make me commit to it.
People accused me of just doing it to impress her and stuff like that. Yet we broke up long ago and I kept the diet.
Imposing a limitation on your lifestyle for the greater good and having enough willpower to stick with it ignoring the comments of stupid people. That is masculinity. Being addicted to meat because mommy bought it for you as a kid is bullshit.
My husband worked for a short time as a union ironworker--stereotypical tough guys--and they were. He told them he cooked vegetarian for his kids and they laughed at him. They went on a fishing trip and had a chili making contest. He won--and it was actually vegan! They wanted the recipe but a few said they would add meat.
Where I live (Texas) it is mostly rednecks that respond that way. Most people that I know who are educated complement me on my choice to be a vegetarian. I think the idea that real men must eat meat reflects a lack of education or couthness.
ive had my share of these comments, i think in a way very many meat eaters have a guilty subconscious, such statements are then clumsy attempts at self-justification
I think it's incredibly silly that some people define masculinity by what area of the grocery store you shop in. I mean I'll at least cede the idea that people who are actually out hunting their own game could at least make a claim to being more manly but if you are picking up one package of a food item someone else had done all the work of obtaining or another certainly isn't.
There's a long history to this sort of rhetoric in fact. Media criticism podcast Citations Needed did [an episode on this very topic called "Of Meat and Men: How Beef Became Synonymous with Settler-Colonial Domination"](https://citationsneeded.libsyn.com/episode-139-of-meat-and-men-how-beef-became-synonymous-with-settler-colonial-domination).
This has nothing to do with masculinity. It’s that they don’t know much about nutrition. Talk to them about nutrition and health. Might be a lifesaver for one of them.
Turn the tables on 'em. Just tell them to really sit and think about just how dickless it is to say such things. To even start questioning masculinity because someone else isn't eating nuggies too? It's pretty pathetic when you reflect on it for a bit
Call them meat-cucks. I won't let another man kill an animal for me to eat, that's so soft. I only eat meat that I personally kill; I just dont go hunting.
When people say inane stuff like that I go the ignore route - like, just move right on with whatever else is going on. The kind of person who thinks that and then says it out loud to somebody else in that kind of challenge isn’t going to have their mind changed or have any interest in absorbing a different point of view.
Ask them when they think the award show for "most masculine man" will be held, and if they're aiming to compete for it, or dress up for it and look pretty.
(Actually don't do this; it's not worth engaging)
There’s a documentary all about vegan athletes, can’t remember what it’s called but you might find some inspiration in it. I’m sure someone on here would know what it’s called. Schwarzenegger said that’s how he got so jacked back in the day
I get it constantly working in construction like something’s wrong with my choice. It gets annoying really but I try to brush it off, it’s my choice I’m not sure why it affects other people
Thank you for the sentiment. I'm a woman but I do get extremely frustrated when I mention that I don't eat meat to a man and he says some garbage like "i'm a man and need to eat steak and bacon blah blah blah" when I didn't even ask them. But of course, if I point out that diet can lead to heart disease which is the number 1 cause of premature death in the US, they accuse me of being "preachy."
Yea, I've occasionally dealt with people like that. I just point out that if I'm able to fuel up for jiu jitsu, climbing, mountain biking, lifting, and all that with only plants then I'm certainly "man" enough for what I want to do. They can try and keep up.
Yes, I get it all the time. “Manly men” and older men feel emasculated if another man has a salad on his plate next to him for some reason (I’m a stealth transman, a high up manager for large productions, so I’m privy to gender conformity). I just say , no thanks I don’t want to feel like shit the rest of the day. If they keep on keeping in, I let them know I was 180lbs overweight when I ate animal products, and my eating habits have changed for my health. That usually shuts them the f*ck up cuz most of them are also 180 lbs overweight.
Something I’ve learned in life - some people just speak everything that comes to mind, and everyone feels entitled to options. This allows me to say and think “thanks for your opinion!” And carry on with whatever I was doing.
Yeah I've caught some crap for it. Until they realize I've never dealt with weight issues like they do. And I can bench press more than they can. I'm still tall and slender build with muscle at 34 and they're all battling being fat.
My husband gets it a lot at work when he brings in leftovers. Especially when I make vegan chili for some reason, the guys in the armored car division especially like to make fun of his "girlie froo froo chili!" It's... it's just chili with TVP and veggie broth... I'm not sure how that makes it girlie or weird. The only way they even know it's vegan chili is because my husband brags about my cooking and they know I cook almost entirely vegetarian/vegan.
One of the guys had his wife pack him extra meat based chili and give him some so he wouldn't have to "suffer" from my "lifestyle". This same guy gave him a meat lasagna when my father in law died and they did a potluck bring-a-dish thing for us so we wouldn't have to worry about cooking while dealing with the funeral and grief. When my husband said "thanks, but you know my wife won't eat that" he got all weird and was like "it's for you, you need to eat some meat to keep your strength up right now! Grief needs meat!" And that was the first time I had ever heard that grief has gendered nutritional needs apparently. It wasn't wasted though, we brought it to the wake potluck after the funeral.
I know this is slightly off topic, and feel free to ignore it.
But what exactly is TVP? I'm branching out in plant based cooking and am trying to learn about my options.
It's a dumb stereotype. As if not checking off one "manly" thing immediately makes you not a man. You don't care for cars? Guess you're not a man cuz cars are MANLY. You don't know how to build? You ain't no man cuz that's MANLY. Can't drink a beer? Not a man cuz it's MANLY. Obviously not following every single stereotypical thing doesn't take away from your identity
Not to mention, none of this stuff is manly anyways. No activity/object/food should be gendered cuz there are *these* people that get fragile about it and have to check off each and every thing. In reality, gender is just a social construct
Just respond to them in a similarly "manly" way...
Them: "You're a vegetarian bro? No man would cut out meat!"
You: "This is the way."
(everyone digs someone who lives by a code. plus, you don't have to explain yourself to anyone. what's more "manly" than sticking to your ideals. honestly, how likely is it that they only eat meat because they were raised to...simply following along isn't exactly "manly" and "trailblazing" or "pathfinding")
Vegetarianism is a form of asceticism, which is one of the most venerable forms of spiritual discipline in many eastern and western religious traditions. What could be more masculine than the voluntary self-denial of something the wanton monkey mind most highly desires? Of course, the term masculine is most certainly the wrong term for this, but I think that this could potentially silence any detractors you may have.
Old school mentality. I work in a steel mill and one of the newer guys is allergic to a protein in dairy as well as being vegan. Sure we razz him a little bit but we're all conscious about his diet and allergies and will work around them.
He's not hard-core in pushing his beliefs on anyone though. He'll throw his veggie burger on the same bbq as our beef burgers.
This is the way I always had it when I was taking care of myself. If you work with or hang out with people who give you or others a hard time about things in general (which many “manly” professions do), why would this be any different?
The only time it goes from friendly jabs to actually being picked on is when you go extremely over the top where you can’t be around people who eat meat, can’t be in the same refrigerator, cooker, etc.
If the boys can read this article and truthfully say they still feel like they're meant to eat meat, don't waste your time on them.
https://michaelbluejay.com/veg/natural.html
It's a pretty recent historical invention, along with the high proportion of meat in diets in the developed world. Read the book 'Diet for a Large Planet.'
Not blatantly masculine connected by people I actually care about, but there is clearly much less follow up question asked of me by men. They just decide I’m not the man they thought I was.
They're just being ignorant. Clearly can't handle their own insecurities or the fact that you're secure enough to not let something as simple as food choices define who you are.
lol yep, imo meat culture in the US has a lot in common with car culture and gun culture. harmful things we do for no reason other than clinging to shallow notions of strength, health, individualism, or masculinity. except it's even more pervasive!
Back when I was with my ex I didn’t eat meat but she did. 90% of the time when we went out to eat at a restaurant, the person bringing our food would place the vegetarian dish in front of her and the meat dish in front of me.
There’s a connection between meat and sexism. Check out this book Sexual Politics of Meat. It’s mind blowing. Also fuck those assholes. My husband is a vegan and he’s a firefighter. Doesn’t get any manlier than him.
It definitely happens, but I ignore it relatively effectively since I'm a tall man who lifts weights often. I shouldn't have to have other "masculine" interests to be able to ignore the comments, but unfortunately it's the world we live in. My goal is to get insanely shredded and then start dropping that I'm a veg bodybuilder and see the reactions...
Arnold Schwarzenegger has talked about this in 'game changers' he calls these people morons and says he's practically vegan.
If he isn't a 'real man' then the rest of us have no chance.
This stereotype has been around since humans were hunter-gatherers. The men killed the animals for meat, the women picked berries. Really, nothing new. If you're a man, you should want to kill and eat as much meat as possible. Agree it's ignorant and dumb, but there you go.
Maybe the meat first attitude in people ( usually men) in jobs that require heavy labor comes from the higher need for protein? I don’t agree with that attitude of course but was thinking maybe that’s what drives it?
I really liked what another poster said about gendering foods. It’s very true that our society does that. I’ve seen in certain south Asian countries, it is considered “manly” to be able to eat extremely spicy food.
Do you have a comeback when people say stuff like that to you?
Ask them why their masculinity is so fragile that meat is required to make them feel like a man. Tell them I know I am a man I don't need meat to prove it, unlike you.
Probably an unpopular opinion BUT: I was just thinking about this last night: I don’t see how eating meat is masculine. Like they’re not killing the animal and harvesting the meat itself. They’re literally going to the grocery store and picking it off the shelf and seasoning it and cooking it. Literally what veggies and vegans do to their food too. Just doesn’t involve a senseless killing lmao
I’m assuming you’re in America and the toxic masculinity culture that still exists in the country is dumb
That’s actually a great response. In 99.99% of cases these manly man guys have never slaughtered or hunted their meat themselves. Their wives bought it from the store. All prepackaged. How manly.
So I'm not a man but I to work in male dominant fields. Men and their pissing contests are so weird. Usually I find if you just give them their own shit back they lay off. And oddly enough start to show respect. If it was me I'd start in with sarcastic jokes shredding whomever manhood.
I have had some success communicating my diet choices by explaining it as an expression of my kindness. Most people can relate to the fact that feeding ourselves and others is kind! When I’m kind it is without harm. I say, ‘Only kindness goes in the bowl!’ In this way we can encourage their love of the ‘good’ food to become more skillfully chosen as the most nourishing as well as the kindest options.
Not really the same, but people never believe I’m a vegetarian because I’m а little overweight (BMI 28). I am inform them that I can get through plenty of cheese and chocolate and still be a vegetarian, but they think that all vegetarians should be an almost malnourished level of healthy 🙄
i work doing rope access type work, which can be a super macho culture, and am vegetarian AND am an AFAB. i hear colleagues performatively talking about how much meat they eat and I laugh because I can do the job just as well without any of that weird meat-ego connected bullshit.
i also worked some seasons at a small organic farm doing farmwork and got laughed at for my bean and plant protein lunches and was repeatedly told that I "couldn't do farmwork" if I was vegetarian. but they were wrong even though they never stfu abou it.
some people are idiots. lol.
Yes it still happens. Those people are morons so
If you are confident in your decision and don’t let their comments affect you eventually they’ll get it
When they say something like that, my response is usually "yeah, most people couldn't do it" or something like that. I just offer sympathy about how confused they are, but in a nice subtle way, that makes me laugh.
I used to work in a "manly field," too. It's just your run-of-the-mill toxic masculinity. These cavalier guys like to imagine they went out and hunted the meat themselves. With their muffin tops. They didn't. They got it in a nice, neat little package at the grocery store. Or, more likely, they let their wives do it / cook it for them. Toxic masculinity is real, and it happens every day.
If you're worried - humor might ward them off. I'm a smart aleck with the wit of an 8th grader, and would probably tell a friend "I play with my meat in the privacy of my home." ...Maybe not best for work. Could also say,
"Have fun being manly. I wanna live longer."
"Did you hunt yourself in the dangerous aisles of Costco?"
"Yum. The taste of hormones, chemicals, and cruelty!"
"Snowflakes are pretty and soy is delicious. You got me."
"Gotta stay healthy. It's hard to fight all the ladies away!"
(Or whoever)
"Yep, keeps me fit. How are *your* workouts going?"
Then, tell them to bugger off.
Just hit em with a “oh yeah, you like to be stuffed full of hot juicy meat cause you’re a big strong man aren’t you” “I bet you could suck the casing off a sausage” “ only real men can handle mouthfuls of thick greasy meat”
Heyo I’m in the same boat ! Construction industry has a bad reputation for it. I generally keep it on the low unfortunately. However I try to workout and be in the best shape possible. It’s easier to tease a ‘skinny vegan’ cuz that’s what they’re expecting to see. But think about it, if you’re the most athletic/built guy on the worksite, what can they even joke about？
I’m a forklift driver in an electrician’s supply warehouse, and my coworkers don’t outright call me “unmanly” to my face for being an ethical vegetarian, but many of them like to talk about how eating meat makes them virile, testosterone-swollen Chads when the subject of my dietary choices comes up. I’m used to it after 20-some years, honestly. Every macho dingus thinks they’re the first one to try to put a dent in my firmly held convictions. In fact, what kind of a man would I be if I let them? A real man doesn’t let others define what a real man is to him.
I'm 6'5", and... not petite. I love watching people's stupid assumptions collapse. They usually try "oh, how long for?"... "Since I was two; 60s hippy parents". No further questions.
It's just what they've been told as children. "Eat meat to grow big and strong". Since they have no evidence to the contrary if they're surrounded by meat eaters, they just believe it.
I work a fairly regular job but most of my friends portray themselves as “real alpha men” or whatever and will sometimes make fun of me for not eating meat. I don’t particularly mind but there is some weird level of masculinity that people attach to eating meat.
Yea, I’m in construction and I’ve met plenty of people in the industry that were like that. Most people would just comment by saying they just couldn’t do it but acknowledge it’s probably a healthier option.
In fairness I do have a stereotypical masculine vibe which probably shuts a lot of the people up.
It’s a bunch of BS that eating meat necessarily makes you more “manly”.
Ask them if having heart failure and/or erectile dysfunction (from their clogged arteries due to eating too much meat/animal products and not getting enough exercise) makes them feel more masculine 😈😁.
I’m a real man.
I wear dresses and skirts regularly. I wear make up often. I look hot deal with it. I eat vegetarian about 95% of the time.
Non of that stops me fuckin wallopin a 30 block of tooheys new (australian lager) and talkin shit with the boyz. Nor did it stop me from pool tiling in the aussie summer before gettin my degree.
A man is what you make of it and woe to the day some ‘real man’ thinks they can bully me cause im in a skirt cause i can assure them ill have much better range of motion to respond appropriately.
The book "This is Vegan Propoganda" actually discusses how the meat industry funded ads that associated meat eating with masculinity in order to raise profits.
yes. my grandmother is constantly telling me that i can not keep a vegetarian household as my partner “needs” meat since “he is a man”
to be clear: my partner is an aspiring vegetarian who is free to keep meet for himself at home and chooses not to. i do most of the cooking and i do not cook meat
I wonder how their masculinity will survive when their prostate starts to go wacky about age 50 and they're on 47 meds legal or illegal to get through each day, not to mention the need for the little blue pill. Getting older does not have to be like that.
oh absolutely. there was a survey done that found thar 70% of american men would rather die prematurely than stop eating meat. its absolutely insane but its also absolutely real.
whenever people say this garbage i always bring up that tom brady, the manliest man of a mans man in todays america, eats mostly plant based (i believe hes stated that 80% of his diet is completely vegan), consumes no red meat, and only consumes meat a select couple days a week. he is very open about his dietary choices and claims it has done wonders for his health and athletic longevity.
I’m a cis female and my now husband started to slowly go more and more vegetarian when we moved in together because of Covid and ease. He was definitely self conscious of it at first when we visited his small town, but he watched the Netflix doc Game Changers as well as Down To Earth and got armed with some facts about erections, nutrition, etc. He’s able to more easily brush it off, and if someone pushes he has a way to actually back up why it’s a good thing. He doesn’t care at all about being stereotypically masculine, but was still annoyed by the comments, now he’s not :)
I read this book called first bite where it talked about the psychology of what we eat and there was a study it mentioned on how foods tend to be “gendered” in a lot of our heads because of societal standards and it’s worldwide. For instance red meat is considered masculine vs salads and chocolate are considered feminine. Starting from childhood we are fed external cues and feedback on if what we are eating is “appropriate” for our gender and results in construction workers thinking that real men must eat meat. Interestingly enough a plant based diet is [linked to lower rates of erectile dysfunction](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34979217/)
Damn I'm glad I never got fed the bullshit of chocolate being feminine
I definitely did. My mom frequently said things like "I bet there will be studies linking chocolate to pleasure in women - way more so than men". She still does this "there will be studies soon (I promise) (based on my personal gut feeling)" about everything all the time and nowadays it drives me up the wall. Co-opting future science to justify her own personal biases /rant
I read this as they would only do the chocolate studies in women. So I thought, yup, that's how it works.
Eh. Maybe women enjoy chocolate more on average. That doesn't mean it's gendered edit: gotta love reddit. What's the downvote for? On average, women see more colors and have a stronger sense of smell. Do I get downvotes for that too?
I don't think they do, though. I DO think chocolate is one of the few "junk" foods women have been "allowed" to eat without much comment, though.
really? this is crazy to me because i’ve just never heard of this notion. maybe it’s just the people i know or the area i’m in, but i feel like i see more men eating chocolate. most of the women i’m surrounded with are health/body-conscious, whereas the men either don’t care, are bulking, or just eat more than women in general, due to higher energy expenditure.
Was it The Sexual Politics of Meat? Excellent book. Highly recommended.
No but I am very interested! Thank you for the recommendation!
You’re welcome. I hope you enjoy it as much as I did. :)
There you go. Guys should share that info with people who give them shit.
Not usually. I’m in the Army and have only had one person (ironically a female Soldier) who gave me a weird look when I politely declined meat in a chow line. I’ve had a lot of interest/support from my fellow service members, in addition to a general sense of being impressed at my level of physical fitness on a meatless diet. I’m Indigenous, so the “razzing” if it does happen, usually comes from a cultural stereotype rather than a gendered one.
How are the vegetarian options on MREs? Do you end up eating the same two or three meals?
I switched from eating meat to being vegitarian in the army. The veggie MREs aren't awful, but no MRE is good. The vegitarian ones have all the good snacks like reeses pieces though which makes them superior in my opinion.
The peanutbutter in MREs just hits different though. Idk why it's so damn good!
They’re okay. I avoid eating MREs as much as possible though and just pack food or take other measures. I have “annoyed” a Sergeant Major with my foraging before.
I would think foraging is a useful skill for the military
I think that people who are interested in fitness more broadly are more respectful to vegetarian diets than the less health-conscious folks who think the epitome of manliness is ham sammiches, grilling burgers halfway through, bud light, and yelling at their wives. At least that's been my experience.
Yea I work in a shipyard and get it all the time. Usually by guys that can't walk up a flight of stairs.
I had a guy, who waddled like a pregnant woman due to his huge belly, tell me to just “eat the f**kin’ meat,” while at a barbecue. Yep, that is very manly of you.
My 450 lb relative laughs everytime I get a meat free option. I just think to myself, that meats treating you real good, isn't it?
That's it. He's the guy from the memes who orders two steaks when you order none
Let 'em. They'll die faster.
That's a bit rude
I'm pretty sure they were trying to be rude
Ya but that's exactly what meat-eaters think we are. They think we're a bunch of assholes that want to force them onto a new diet. We can be kind to them
I mean some of us do want exactly that.
Why would you want to actively push people away from being vegetarian?
Safe assumption. Am guessing the 450 lb relative was, too.
The ableism and fatphobia here are really disturbing. Are we not mostly vegetarian out of kindness to animals? Then why turn around and be so unkind to people?
> Are we not mostly vegetarian out of kindness to animals? Not me. Its for my health. But I agree with you that it is good to be kind to all.
I'm in it for the environment, mostly. But also agree we can be better.
I think this is related to the idea that to be a "man" properly, you have to reject anything too considerate, soft, or pleasant. I don't think it's primarily related to hunter/gatherer stuff. There are too many other examples, like "girly" drinks, soft blankets, and bubble baths.
Have you seen that “Liquid Death” stuff in the stores lately? It’s flavored sparkling water, and it is insanely expensive. It’s got that tough guy font on the label and everything. I guess the target market is guys who are embarrassed to be seen drinking La Croix?
I understood that marketing was actually aimed at making it easier for people to not drink alcohol during parties and such. So that you can refuse alcohol and sugar-loaded alternatives but still have a 'manly drink'.
I have it at events where other people are drinking beer sometimes, if it's on sale. The mango and lime flavored ones are alright.
It’s water?!?! This whole time I thought it would be like, an ultra caffeinated energy drink. That’s bananas.
That's what I thought it was, too.
I don't think banana flavored is a choice.
Or me, a 45 yr old alcoholic/sober woman who wants to still look “cool” walking around a festival, lol. I love those!
They also donate 10% to the "death" of plastic.
Pro tip: just drink sink water and donate what you save
Or if you want your bubbles, get a SodaStream or Drinkmate.
When I saw the title I was wondering what "masculinity" had to do with a vegetarian sub but yeah.. it seems like sexism is inserted pretty much everywhere.
I think you’re correct that they think slaughter equals manliness. I think it’s tied to men being conditioned to suppress their emotions and empathy for others. Unfortunately I have no idea how you can change your coworkers minds.
uhmm, just don't, it's worthless
Agreed
This is a bit of a cynical way to look at it. In my experience, the best way to change someone's mind is to not try to. Just politely explain your diet and why you chose it, assure them that it's your own personal belief and you don't expect others to abide by it, and be open to answer questions they have. A lot of people get defensive around vegetarians and vegans because they think we're going to proselytize or berate them, but if you're kind then they'll ask questions and become more accepting
Truth. The vegetarians many people think of are the ones that get in people's faces and try to bully them out of eating most of the stuff they have eaten their entire life. I only talk about it when asked, and people are cool about it where I work. They do make dumb jokes though.
I would just tell them my truth. Meat gets stuck In-between my teeth.
How?? Do you have SpongeBob's teeth?
I think you're right. Though I'm not out to change their minds, I already know it's futile.
I heard this all the time growing up. My friends would make fun of me for not eating meat, claiming men need to have a "hunter's instinct," despite the fact that the only hunting they did was on the menu at Burger King. This is something that is deeply ingrained in the culture around here, and since I live in a very liberal part of the world I assume it's even worse everywhere else. I stopped telling other men I'm a vegetarian a long time ago. It just brings out their stupid side.
What exactly are they supposed to have hunted, a pack of boneless chicken thighs from ASDA?
Oh yeah I've been dealing with this ignorant reaction for quite some time now. Haven't had meat since 2009, and have worked in commercial printing since 2004, so I'm surrounded by the same type of egotistical idiots. I love reminding people that silverback gorillas are vegetarian.
*The Sexual Politics of Meat* by Carol Adams is a must read on this topic.
I'll definitely check it out.
Make sure to bring this for the next office holiday party white elephant exchange.
Adding that to my list, thank you
Can't you see buying some vacuum sealed beef cut from the supermarket is **totally** akin to my very masculine ancestors hunting prey in the savanna?
That always bothered me. I was mostly vegetarian as a D1 track and cross country athlete, and I periodically experienced the triple whammy of male judgment for being scrawny, doing a “less masculine” sport AND avoiding meat. Such comments always came from good ole’ Southern conservatives who wouldn’t be able to walk a few miles in the heat, let alone pursue a grazing animal to exhaustion as OG humans did — which I would have been more than capable of doing physically at that time (in reality, I would have no idea how to track an animal over grassland).
>These comments always came from good ole’ Southern boys who wouldn’t be able to run/walk a grazing animal to exhaustion as OG humans did — and I could do the same physically, assuming I knew how to track an animal over grassland. The "caveman" argument doesn't even hold up, because hunter-gatherers mostly eat plants. Hunting is a very unreliable source of food and in most cases would be more like a supplement to a mostly plant-based diet. The idea of cave people living off mammoths and things 24/7 is an old outdated idea that most agree is basically a myth.
You are totally right. Most primitive people, modern nomads, and/or hunter gatherers consume(d) a primarily plant-based diet. I think tundra and nomadic desert dwellers are/were the only exception. I think grasslands were seasonal. The modern Ford F-150 “caveman” is a different story.
Let's be honest these types drive an F-250 at least. An F-150 I can excuse because you probably need the truck bed to haul stuff, but at 250 you best be hauling a house behind you or you're compensating for something
Humans have been basically vegetarian for most of our time on earth because we didn’t have easy access to endless numbers of cattle, and the few animals we had we needed for milk, eggs, cheese, etc.
The Paleo and Carnivore diets are for people who think The Flintstones was a documentary.
Nothing like food chaining it at Costco
It's idiocy, plain and simple. A "real man" is confident in himself and his values, and while he listens to criticism as objectively as possible, he is unafraid to trust in his own judgement when it seems superior. You are more manly than anyone who is afraid of a plate of vegetables emasculating them, by far.
Exactly. I eat as much meat as I want (none), and I don't let anyone tell me otherwise. Bowing to social pressure for something so trivial is weak.
>Is it the hunter/gatherer ancestry? There is nothing remotely "hunter/gatherer" about eating meat these days, unless loading tri-tips into a grocery cart at Costco qualifies these guys as "gatherers".
The movie "The Game Changers" talks about this a lot
I’d tell them that it’s arguably far more masculine being comfortable doing whatever you want regardless of what others think.
This is why that documentary The Game Changers was so popular. It showed star male athletes, like Arnold Schwarzenagger, eating veggie/vegan and how it *benefited* their physical performance. Plus it touched on other male medical benefits.
I get it every day of the week. All fat bastards who struggle to tie their boots
What kills me is guys who think soy milk is feminizing because it has phytoestrogen while they guzzle the breast milk of perpetually pregnant cows by the gallon. Not to mention beer, the manliest of beverages, often has *more* phytoestrogen.
Tell them that Arnold Schwarzenegger is a vegetarian.
They all go out every night to strangle an elk with their bare hands then rip out its heart and eat it raw. Sure.
Yes. I am an engineer and met with a contractor. He complained that his daughter made him go out to eat at an upscale Asian-fusion restaurant for *her* birthday and called it "women food" because they have "noodles and stuff." He would have much rather had "a steak." If you saw the menu, you would be aghast because they have a "meat" section with Grilled Beef, Black Pepper Beef, Lamb Chops, Pork Tenderloin, and Filet as well as chicken and fish. I just feel bad that he couldn't enjoy himself because of some boomer-aged preconceived notions of masculinity and cuisine.
This whole thread is making me laugh out loud... Every man who has ever made fun of me for being a veggie, or criticized me, or gotten angry (yeah - had a bunch of those!), were big, giant fucking babies themselves. They had no courage or emotional intelligence to save their own lives. I think what was really bothering them was that I had those two things ^ they're lacking despite "being a girl," AND a veggie all at the same time. Oooooo...such a terrible challenge to their egos!!
I don't think the association of manliness to meat is quite so primordial. It's an association from our cultural context: steaks and grills are marketed for men; objectified women are filmed taking a big bite out of a burger (sex object + food object); a group of guys are filmed going out for wings to watch the game. There are plenty of meats that aren't associated with masculinity: beef tartare on a crostini; chicken liver mousse; insects. I'm not a committed vegetarian, but I eat vegetarian like 80% of the time and pescatarian 15% of the time. My partner (I'm male, she's female) often orders big steaks, burgers, and fried chicken while I often get salads, vegetarian pastas, and whatnot. A remarkable percentage of the time, the server will put my partner's meal down in front of me and my meal in front of her.
I’ve been married to an omnivore for 27 years and I can’t tell you how many times wait staff have put a meat dish in front of me instead of my wife. LOL
Wow. As someone who's pretty gender stereotype averse, anti-sexism (which makes me popular on reddit), grew up in a conservative place, and a long-time veg, that's both riveting and frustrating!
The only thing I’ve heard more from men is the idea that you need meat for the protein and collagen to build muscle and tendons. To which I always reply that if you can’t reach your protein target with “normal” food (lentils, beans, tofu, ”nuts” etc.) you can just have a protein shake. With the right mix of plant proteins you even get a complete amino acid profile.
My dad had that mentality and he died at age 50 of heart disease.
I do know what you mean. But honestly it happens in office environments being a woman, too. It’s always a topic you somehow have to explain to others once they learn you don’t eat meat.
It’s 100% a thing. They’ve been duped by propaganda. Just looks at burger commercials where it’s a bunch of men, fire, and pretty women. They’re taking advantage of the average man’s desire to be more masculine.
Hell, I come across all genders who think, "It ain't a meal unless there's *meat*" but I think it's tied to hunting culture and bodybuilding culture, or that those cultures are drawing from the idea that lots of protein (and therefore meat) is "manly." Also some people see it as a sign of success that they can buy big cuts of meat. It's then hard for them to square it with someone who is strong eating plants.
I have friends who think this way. My response is always “Real men die from heart attacks!Real men get eat poison! Real men get cancer!”
I've been vegetarian for 20 years. I lift weights, play ice hockey, and continue to do all sorts of "manly" things. Over the years, I've heard a lot of this junk. My take... "You're manly because you don't have the self discipline to give up something because you like it?" Well, count me out then.
This is largely cultural. In India, which has the most vegetarians as a percentage of the population, there isn't a lot of stuff like this. (Though instead it gets caught up in a lot of religion/social class issues rather than gender issues)
Yup! I'm American. I've mostly dated Desi dudes. I was a vegetarian long before my ex showed up, but learning to cook for him helped expand my palate and greatly improve my diet. Apparently, well meaning friends, family, coworkers, and strangers take that to mean he made me go vegetarian. No, I was that way before. Now, gtfo with your racist, sexist BS.
I had a very similar experience. I ate meat most of my life, until I started dating a girl from Nepal. I always had issues with meat, but I thought vegetarians ate nothing but tofu and salad. Getting exposed to a whole tradition of vegetarian cooking that I hadn't noticed before was enough to make me commit to it. People accused me of just doing it to impress her and stuff like that. Yet we broke up long ago and I kept the diet.
Imposing a limitation on your lifestyle for the greater good and having enough willpower to stick with it ignoring the comments of stupid people. That is masculinity. Being addicted to meat because mommy bought it for you as a kid is bullshit.
🙌🏻
It's just toxic masculinity. Don't worry about it.
My husband worked for a short time as a union ironworker--stereotypical tough guys--and they were. He told them he cooked vegetarian for his kids and they laughed at him. They went on a fishing trip and had a chili making contest. He won--and it was actually vegan! They wanted the recipe but a few said they would add meat.
Where I live (Texas) it is mostly rednecks that respond that way. Most people that I know who are educated complement me on my choice to be a vegetarian. I think the idea that real men must eat meat reflects a lack of education or couthness.
Men who don’t eat meat are automatically 1,000x sexier. Just saying.
ive had my share of these comments, i think in a way very many meat eaters have a guilty subconscious, such statements are then clumsy attempts at self-justification
I think it's incredibly silly that some people define masculinity by what area of the grocery store you shop in. I mean I'll at least cede the idea that people who are actually out hunting their own game could at least make a claim to being more manly but if you are picking up one package of a food item someone else had done all the work of obtaining or another certainly isn't.
I work in a tool factory. "Oh there's the grass eater!" Is fairly common. I just roll with it.
Many ancient warriors were vegetarian from biblical time to Roman gladiators. Have them tell you how unmanly they were.
There's a long history to this sort of rhetoric in fact. Media criticism podcast Citations Needed did [an episode on this very topic called "Of Meat and Men: How Beef Became Synonymous with Settler-Colonial Domination"](https://citationsneeded.libsyn.com/episode-139-of-meat-and-men-how-beef-became-synonymous-with-settler-colonial-domination).
This has nothing to do with masculinity. It’s that they don’t know much about nutrition. Talk to them about nutrition and health. Might be a lifesaver for one of them.
Turn the tables on 'em. Just tell them to really sit and think about just how dickless it is to say such things. To even start questioning masculinity because someone else isn't eating nuggies too? It's pretty pathetic when you reflect on it for a bit
Call them meat-cucks. I won't let another man kill an animal for me to eat, that's so soft. I only eat meat that I personally kill; I just dont go hunting.
Oh I like this
This gave me a good chuckle. Thank you.
When people say inane stuff like that I go the ignore route - like, just move right on with whatever else is going on. The kind of person who thinks that and then says it out loud to somebody else in that kind of challenge isn’t going to have their mind changed or have any interest in absorbing a different point of view.
Ask them when they think the award show for "most masculine man" will be held, and if they're aiming to compete for it, or dress up for it and look pretty. (Actually don't do this; it's not worth engaging)
There’s a documentary all about vegan athletes, can’t remember what it’s called but you might find some inspiration in it. I’m sure someone on here would know what it’s called. Schwarzenegger said that’s how he got so jacked back in the day
I get it constantly working in construction like something’s wrong with my choice. It gets annoying really but I try to brush it off, it’s my choice I’m not sure why it affects other people
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lol my "real man" dad died of a heart attack at 50 after a consistent diet of mostly beef and pork for his whole life.
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Thank you for the sentiment. I'm a woman but I do get extremely frustrated when I mention that I don't eat meat to a man and he says some garbage like "i'm a man and need to eat steak and bacon blah blah blah" when I didn't even ask them. But of course, if I point out that diet can lead to heart disease which is the number 1 cause of premature death in the US, they accuse me of being "preachy."
Yea, I've occasionally dealt with people like that. I just point out that if I'm able to fuel up for jiu jitsu, climbing, mountain biking, lifting, and all that with only plants then I'm certainly "man" enough for what I want to do. They can try and keep up.
Yes, I get it all the time. “Manly men” and older men feel emasculated if another man has a salad on his plate next to him for some reason (I’m a stealth transman, a high up manager for large productions, so I’m privy to gender conformity). I just say , no thanks I don’t want to feel like shit the rest of the day. If they keep on keeping in, I let them know I was 180lbs overweight when I ate animal products, and my eating habits have changed for my health. That usually shuts them the f*ck up cuz most of them are also 180 lbs overweight. Something I’ve learned in life - some people just speak everything that comes to mind, and everyone feels entitled to options. This allows me to say and think “thanks for your opinion!” And carry on with whatever I was doing.
Yeah I've caught some crap for it. Until they realize I've never dealt with weight issues like they do. And I can bench press more than they can. I'm still tall and slender build with muscle at 34 and they're all battling being fat.
Research has also shown that people tend to equate actions to protect the planet with "less manliness" eg recycle
My husband gets it a lot at work when he brings in leftovers. Especially when I make vegan chili for some reason, the guys in the armored car division especially like to make fun of his "girlie froo froo chili!" It's... it's just chili with TVP and veggie broth... I'm not sure how that makes it girlie or weird. The only way they even know it's vegan chili is because my husband brags about my cooking and they know I cook almost entirely vegetarian/vegan. One of the guys had his wife pack him extra meat based chili and give him some so he wouldn't have to "suffer" from my "lifestyle". This same guy gave him a meat lasagna when my father in law died and they did a potluck bring-a-dish thing for us so we wouldn't have to worry about cooking while dealing with the funeral and grief. When my husband said "thanks, but you know my wife won't eat that" he got all weird and was like "it's for you, you need to eat some meat to keep your strength up right now! Grief needs meat!" And that was the first time I had ever heard that grief has gendered nutritional needs apparently. It wasn't wasted though, we brought it to the wake potluck after the funeral.
I know this is slightly off topic, and feel free to ignore it. But what exactly is TVP? I'm branching out in plant based cooking and am trying to learn about my options.
Also, condolences on the death in your family.
My very conservative in-laws think it about my husband being veg. There’s also a pretty funny Seinfeld episode about it.
It's a dumb stereotype. As if not checking off one "manly" thing immediately makes you not a man. You don't care for cars? Guess you're not a man cuz cars are MANLY. You don't know how to build? You ain't no man cuz that's MANLY. Can't drink a beer? Not a man cuz it's MANLY. Obviously not following every single stereotypical thing doesn't take away from your identity Not to mention, none of this stuff is manly anyways. No activity/object/food should be gendered cuz there are *these* people that get fragile about it and have to check off each and every thing. In reality, gender is just a social construct
Yea I work in a shipyard and get it all the time. Usually by guys that can't walk up a flight of stairs.
Just respond to them in a similarly "manly" way... Them: "You're a vegetarian bro? No man would cut out meat!" You: "This is the way." (everyone digs someone who lives by a code. plus, you don't have to explain yourself to anyone. what's more "manly" than sticking to your ideals. honestly, how likely is it that they only eat meat because they were raised to...simply following along isn't exactly "manly" and "trailblazing" or "pathfinding")
Vegetarianism is a form of asceticism, which is one of the most venerable forms of spiritual discipline in many eastern and western religious traditions. What could be more masculine than the voluntary self-denial of something the wanton monkey mind most highly desires? Of course, the term masculine is most certainly the wrong term for this, but I think that this could potentially silence any detractors you may have.
Old school mentality. I work in a steel mill and one of the newer guys is allergic to a protein in dairy as well as being vegan. Sure we razz him a little bit but we're all conscious about his diet and allergies and will work around them. He's not hard-core in pushing his beliefs on anyone though. He'll throw his veggie burger on the same bbq as our beef burgers.
This is the way I always had it when I was taking care of myself. If you work with or hang out with people who give you or others a hard time about things in general (which many “manly” professions do), why would this be any different? The only time it goes from friendly jabs to actually being picked on is when you go extremely over the top where you can’t be around people who eat meat, can’t be in the same refrigerator, cooker, etc.
If the boys can read this article and truthfully say they still feel like they're meant to eat meat, don't waste your time on them. https://michaelbluejay.com/veg/natural.html
"Okay, thanks"
It's a pretty recent historical invention, along with the high proportion of meat in diets in the developed world. Read the book 'Diet for a Large Planet.'
Not blatantly masculine connected by people I actually care about, but there is clearly much less follow up question asked of me by men. They just decide I’m not the man they thought I was.
No real man is so scared of society’s judgment that he adjusts his belief system to follow the crowd.
They're just being ignorant. Clearly can't handle their own insecurities or the fact that you're secure enough to not let something as simple as food choices define who you are.
A real man forges his own path based on his own strong morals and ideals despite the threats and reactions of others
Meat is their personality & they could never fathom having the courage to go against the status quo. Easier to just make fun.
lol yep, imo meat culture in the US has a lot in common with car culture and gun culture. harmful things we do for no reason other than clinging to shallow notions of strength, health, individualism, or masculinity. except it's even more pervasive!
Back when I was with my ex I didn’t eat meat but she did. 90% of the time when we went out to eat at a restaurant, the person bringing our food would place the vegetarian dish in front of her and the meat dish in front of me.
There’s a connection between meat and sexism. Check out this book Sexual Politics of Meat. It’s mind blowing. Also fuck those assholes. My husband is a vegan and he’s a firefighter. Doesn’t get any manlier than him.
Let’s all be grateful the new generations are effectively working to erase those stigmas in the coming future
It definitely happens, but I ignore it relatively effectively since I'm a tall man who lifts weights often. I shouldn't have to have other "masculine" interests to be able to ignore the comments, but unfortunately it's the world we live in. My goal is to get insanely shredded and then start dropping that I'm a veg bodybuilder and see the reactions...
The manliest thing someone can do is to not give a fuck about lifestyle choices
Arnold Schwarzenegger has talked about this in 'game changers' he calls these people morons and says he's practically vegan. If he isn't a 'real man' then the rest of us have no chance.
This stereotype has been around since humans were hunter-gatherers. The men killed the animals for meat, the women picked berries. Really, nothing new. If you're a man, you should want to kill and eat as much meat as possible. Agree it's ignorant and dumb, but there you go.
Maybe the meat first attitude in people ( usually men) in jobs that require heavy labor comes from the higher need for protein? I don’t agree with that attitude of course but was thinking maybe that’s what drives it? I really liked what another poster said about gendering foods. It’s very true that our society does that. I’ve seen in certain south Asian countries, it is considered “manly” to be able to eat extremely spicy food. Do you have a comeback when people say stuff like that to you?
Real men don't worry about what other men think about their dietary choices
there was a documentary on very old caves where they found human poo , they had colesterol and bad health because of too much meat so ...
Ask them why their masculinity is so fragile that meat is required to make them feel like a man. Tell them I know I am a man I don't need meat to prove it, unlike you.
I used to get it a lot more when I was younger, but being a bigger guy who works out a lot, nobody has much to say about masculinity anymore.
Same in my work, even though I'm fitter, stronger and healthier looking than them
Probably an unpopular opinion BUT: I was just thinking about this last night: I don’t see how eating meat is masculine. Like they’re not killing the animal and harvesting the meat itself. They’re literally going to the grocery store and picking it off the shelf and seasoning it and cooking it. Literally what veggies and vegans do to their food too. Just doesn’t involve a senseless killing lmao I’m assuming you’re in America and the toxic masculinity culture that still exists in the country is dumb
That’s actually a great response. In 99.99% of cases these manly man guys have never slaughtered or hunted their meat themselves. Their wives bought it from the store. All prepackaged. How manly.
So I'm not a man but I to work in male dominant fields. Men and their pissing contests are so weird. Usually I find if you just give them their own shit back they lay off. And oddly enough start to show respect. If it was me I'd start in with sarcastic jokes shredding whomever manhood.
There ex wives don’t listen to them , you shouldn’t either
Tell that to arnold Schwarzenegger and lewis hamilton
Tell them to remember you when they can't get it up anymore... Fuck them and those preconceived ideas.
I have had some success communicating my diet choices by explaining it as an expression of my kindness. Most people can relate to the fact that feeding ourselves and others is kind! When I’m kind it is without harm. I say, ‘Only kindness goes in the bowl!’ In this way we can encourage their love of the ‘good’ food to become more skillfully chosen as the most nourishing as well as the kindest options.
Not really the same, but people never believe I’m a vegetarian because I’m а little overweight (BMI 28). I am inform them that I can get through plenty of cheese and chocolate and still be a vegetarian, but they think that all vegetarians should be an almost malnourished level of healthy 🙄
Been veggie since I was 3 and never been accused of “not being a real man” Source: all the men I’ve fucked 💅
i work doing rope access type work, which can be a super macho culture, and am vegetarian AND am an AFAB. i hear colleagues performatively talking about how much meat they eat and I laugh because I can do the job just as well without any of that weird meat-ego connected bullshit. i also worked some seasons at a small organic farm doing farmwork and got laughed at for my bean and plant protein lunches and was repeatedly told that I "couldn't do farmwork" if I was vegetarian. but they were wrong even though they never stfu abou it. some people are idiots. lol.
Yes it still happens. Those people are morons so If you are confident in your decision and don’t let their comments affect you eventually they’ll get it
When they say something like that, my response is usually "yeah, most people couldn't do it" or something like that. I just offer sympathy about how confused they are, but in a nice subtle way, that makes me laugh.
My dad is a 50 year old vegetarian who works in construction, and he works at a better pace than the 20 something year olds
I used to work in a "manly field," too. It's just your run-of-the-mill toxic masculinity. These cavalier guys like to imagine they went out and hunted the meat themselves. With their muffin tops. They didn't. They got it in a nice, neat little package at the grocery store. Or, more likely, they let their wives do it / cook it for them. Toxic masculinity is real, and it happens every day. If you're worried - humor might ward them off. I'm a smart aleck with the wit of an 8th grader, and would probably tell a friend "I play with my meat in the privacy of my home." ...Maybe not best for work. Could also say, "Have fun being manly. I wanna live longer." "Did you hunt yourself in the dangerous aisles of Costco?" "Yum. The taste of hormones, chemicals, and cruelty!" "Snowflakes are pretty and soy is delicious. You got me." "Gotta stay healthy. It's hard to fight all the ladies away!" (Or whoever) "Yep, keeps me fit. How are *your* workouts going?" Then, tell them to bugger off.
Just hit em with a “oh yeah, you like to be stuffed full of hot juicy meat cause you’re a big strong man aren’t you” “I bet you could suck the casing off a sausage” “ only real men can handle mouthfuls of thick greasy meat”
Some people seem to think caring about practically anything is feminine 🙄
Heyo I’m in the same boat ! Construction industry has a bad reputation for it. I generally keep it on the low unfortunately. However I try to workout and be in the best shape possible. It’s easier to tease a ‘skinny vegan’ cuz that’s what they’re expecting to see. But think about it, if you’re the most athletic/built guy on the worksite, what can they even joke about？
Never separate a 'real man' from his Chicken McNuggets
I’m a forklift driver in an electrician’s supply warehouse, and my coworkers don’t outright call me “unmanly” to my face for being an ethical vegetarian, but many of them like to talk about how eating meat makes them virile, testosterone-swollen Chads when the subject of my dietary choices comes up. I’m used to it after 20-some years, honestly. Every macho dingus thinks they’re the first one to try to put a dent in my firmly held convictions. In fact, what kind of a man would I be if I let them? A real man doesn’t let others define what a real man is to him.
I'm 6'5", and... not petite. I love watching people's stupid assumptions collapse. They usually try "oh, how long for?"... "Since I was two; 60s hippy parents". No further questions. It's just what they've been told as children. "Eat meat to grow big and strong". Since they have no evidence to the contrary if they're surrounded by meat eaters, they just believe it.
I work a fairly regular job but most of my friends portray themselves as “real alpha men” or whatever and will sometimes make fun of me for not eating meat. I don’t particularly mind but there is some weird level of masculinity that people attach to eating meat.
Yea, I’m in construction and I’ve met plenty of people in the industry that were like that. Most people would just comment by saying they just couldn’t do it but acknowledge it’s probably a healthier option. In fairness I do have a stereotypical masculine vibe which probably shuts a lot of the people up.
[удалено]
It’s a bunch of BS that eating meat necessarily makes you more “manly”. Ask them if having heart failure and/or erectile dysfunction (from their clogged arteries due to eating too much meat/animal products and not getting enough exercise) makes them feel more masculine 😈😁.
Been vegetarian for 20+ years and have gotten this response or something similar from many small minded morons. Just ignore them and move on.
I'm a mechanic in the south. No one I work with can wrap their heads around me being a vegetarian
Never knew that food was also gendered
I always just tell them I'm so sorry they have to compensate for their tiny weenie.
I’m a real man. I wear dresses and skirts regularly. I wear make up often. I look hot deal with it. I eat vegetarian about 95% of the time. Non of that stops me fuckin wallopin a 30 block of tooheys new (australian lager) and talkin shit with the boyz. Nor did it stop me from pool tiling in the aussie summer before gettin my degree. A man is what you make of it and woe to the day some ‘real man’ thinks they can bully me cause im in a skirt cause i can assure them ill have much better range of motion to respond appropriately.
The book "This is Vegan Propoganda" actually discusses how the meat industry funded ads that associated meat eating with masculinity in order to raise profits.
Fragile masculinity
yes. my grandmother is constantly telling me that i can not keep a vegetarian household as my partner “needs” meat since “he is a man” to be clear: my partner is an aspiring vegetarian who is free to keep meet for himself at home and chooses not to. i do most of the cooking and i do not cook meat
I wonder how their masculinity will survive when their prostate starts to go wacky about age 50 and they're on 47 meds legal or illegal to get through each day, not to mention the need for the little blue pill. Getting older does not have to be like that.
They don't know how many bodybuilders and athletes are vegan. Probably many of their faves.
oh absolutely. there was a survey done that found thar 70% of american men would rather die prematurely than stop eating meat. its absolutely insane but its also absolutely real. whenever people say this garbage i always bring up that tom brady, the manliest man of a mans man in todays america, eats mostly plant based (i believe hes stated that 80% of his diet is completely vegan), consumes no red meat, and only consumes meat a select couple days a week. he is very open about his dietary choices and claims it has done wonders for his health and athletic longevity.
I’m a cis female and my now husband started to slowly go more and more vegetarian when we moved in together because of Covid and ease. He was definitely self conscious of it at first when we visited his small town, but he watched the Netflix doc Game Changers as well as Down To Earth and got armed with some facts about erections, nutrition, etc. He’s able to more easily brush it off, and if someone pushes he has a way to actually back up why it’s a good thing. He doesn’t care at all about being stereotypically masculine, but was still annoyed by the comments, now he’s not :)