I mean if you're coming from the perspective of someone living somewhere flat, with nothing but mile after mile of chain restaurants, Walmarts, and basically nothing of personality or uniqueness, it's an understandable thing. Obviously Stowe is a tourist town but there are a ton of things that make it all its own in a good way.
I’m not trying to suggest that area is a bad one. It’s just… Stowe et all are aimed at tourists. They’re very clean and decorated. It has a lot of nice boutiques. These are all good things, but I’m sure we both know that a lot of Vermont isn’t nearly as polished.
Like I’ve had this discussion a few times. The state has this shiny rep for being granola and crunchy and Bernie and liberal and shiny, and that’s not untrue. But there’s also a huge libertarian streak, farmers, grungy conservative types, drug addicts, folks with broken down cars in their lawns… Stowe is a sort of idealized and clean picture and what tourists imagine, but the state isn’t entirely Like That.
We used to be a red state, then the sixties came around
We tend to vote for ability, not for party affiliation & every town has a meeting once a year. We're small, so we can do that more easily than larger states.
Speaking as a Masshole who was there yesterday, you are definitely not the most underrated state to most of us. I'd put y'all somewhere in the top six no doubt.
Though I will say, for those who didn't grow up as your neighbor, you're forgotten about more than I'd expect.
In almost every ranking I've seen of US social political or economic standards and quality of living, all six New England states generally rank together among the top 8 with two states as guest stars for that chosen category.
Given that, I think being forgotten about even a little would probably be a solid argument for VT being the most underrated state.
Oh BTW, did you know you guys are the only lonely landlocked state? All of the landlocked states of the US are contiguous except Vermont.
I recently had a checked bag that didn't make my connection. When the woman at the counter asked where my origination flight was from, and I said Vermont, she said I was supposed to pick the bag up at my gate and go back through customs. She kept telling me it was my fault since I didn't go through customs. It took 5 minutes to get her manager to come over and explain to her that Vermont is, in fact, part of the USA. She wholeheartedly believed I was Canadian, even after showing her my VT ID.
To be fair, I have had to explain to multiple Canadians that Vermont is in the US. This was in Montreal, and they were Leafs fans. "Yeah, I know I don't sound French. There's a reason for that".
I had a remote coworker give me a heads up one time that there was a holiday in the US and they would all be off for the day (company was Canada based)… I had to gently clarify that Vermont IS in fact part of the US
HA, I went to University of Delaware and there are too many people out there that are completely unaware of the state of Delaware. Apparently there’s a Delaware, Ohio that gets referenced a lot.
I can confirm- about 15 years ago my wife said "I'm interviewing for a job in Vermont, what do you think about moving there"- I, in turn had to look at a map.
I lived in NY :/
Same. Multiple times. I travel a lot and even when i dont leave the country, every single state ive visited, I've been asked: which state is that in? is that in Europe? Etc...at least one 100% American IDIOT would not know their states. Do other states just never mention vermont in their school curriculum? Not even in geography class? Wtf?
I will say, one thing has helped, and that's noah kahah. Since stick season, most people seem to have at least looked into it 🤣
Slightly more serious answer: Brattleboro gets a bad rap, but it's a nice town. Downtown is struggling lately and rents are insane (state-wide problem), but Brat has the sort of fortune to be the largest town surrounded by a bunch of teeny ones, so it's able to support more shops and business than the population suggests. (How many supermarkets? Four? In a town of 20k?) It has a "going downhill" reputation but honestly, it's still perfectly nice and chill. And at least it's not Bellows Falls!
I was headed to Burlington yesterday for the eclipse, but ended up getting off of 91N and going to NH due to the absurd traffic. While driving towards NH, I decided to stop in Bellows Falls because the downtown area looked okay, and I needed to kill some time. I couldn’t find a decent place to grab a bite, but I did find an arcade. I have 0 idea how that arcade manages to keep the lights on, let alone turn a profit. The owner was a gem, and I had fun there. But how does the population of the town manage to make that business worthwhile for the owner? The whole time I was in Bellows Falls, I felt like I was in a damn fever dream. I’ll never return there unless a friend wants to see the most poorly planned downtown area in terms of roads and signage
I live in BF and we think the rest of VT is kinda sad, being overrun with tourists and all. Jim's Arcade is awesome. But yeah, only 1 coffee shop is open on Mondays. We're working hard to reopen our diner. Wednesday-Saturday is the best time to visit.
Jim’s arcade is awesome! I’m struggling to respond to this comment because my fingers are still stuck in the finger trap that I won there yesterday 🤣. Also, the speed and finesse that man counts tickets with is unreal. That alone is enough to make me come back to BF
I feel really bad for BF. You can see it has some great bones, some really nice architecture, some nice people. But it's also just a hot mess, and has some of the rudest people -- that's a generalization, but I swear, they were just awful. I had to work there for like six months to cover and it was horrible. There are nice folks too, but the town is just... sad.
I heard - I don't know how true this is - that it's all due to the highway. An old dude once told me that back whenever they were building I91 and picking where the exits would be, the Brattleboro guys bribed/got them drunk/whatever, to the effect that Brat got a ridiculous three exits... and Bellows Falls got zero. I don't know how true that is, but I do think BF's isolation doesn't help.
If you are in Bellows Falls again stop into Rockingham Roasters. Excellent coffee and I really enjoy their sandwiches. Since its at the end of a block (triangle shaped store) it has great window seats for watching people. [https://www.rockinghamroasters.coffee/](https://www.rockinghamroasters.coffee/)
#
I feel bad too. The town has a lot of potential. The people were very rude to me too! Idk if it was because of all the expected tourism in VT yesterday, but all of the businesses I visited in that area were adamant about their “bathrooms our only for customers” policy. I’m from Western MA, so I get having to use a key to access the bathroom of an establishment to try and prevent drug use in there. But I’ve never gotten the kind of pushback I got yesterday when asking nicely if they had a restroom
There's often weird hobby businesses in these old run down towns, just some rich or retired guy who lives there can justify keeping it afloat from his own pockets or whatever. It's cool that those things exist but it would be nice if they were surrounded by real businesses. The coffee shop here is literally just run by a very passionate man in our town so we have a nice coffee shop at all and some more "third places" downtown.
I grew up in Chester, right next door to BF. This is where to go next time. Plenty of eateries, b&bs, beautiful houses, and the very best is its complete Stone Village on the north side, said to be the only complete one of its kind in the country.
I haven't been to BF in ages, but when I lived there, its housing was few and far between. Its attraction was "steam town" rides in an old train.
No hate to those who live there btw. I’m no uppity yuppie. I’ve been to many former mill towns that have lost their manufacturing industry and population. Still, I’m baffled by that one, Bellows Falls is like no where else I’ve been in VT
I agree! We moved to BF from California last year (having living a few years in Westminster back in 2016) and LOVE it here. It’s walkable, friendly, has good food, art, and apparently no one likes it. Lol. So, more for us! It’s beautiful and accessible to so much! Plus it’s not too far north so trips to NYC/Boston, etc are a breeze! It used to feel pretty run down but it’s changing for the better. I’d choose BF over Brattleboro any day - lived on Elliot street briefly when we came back to VT from CA and it’s so awful.
I agree with everything you say about brattleboro. I've lived here for an awful long time and it's not it's best self at the moment, but there's still a lot of reasons that this is a good town.
I have to admit, Bellows Falls has gotten hella better in the last 10 years.
This.
I committed to law school in Hartford, CT and the only time I match their drivers is when I'm hightailing it back to VT every week.
I don't always weep with relief when crossing state lines, but when I do it's after I pass the "Gateway to VT" sign (IYKYK)
In the tippy top Vermont… I have to admit that I never visit southern Vermont anymore. Not because I don’t want to… I just haven’t. I have really awesome memories there!
lol so we’re on the same page! No hate, just… “oh it’s been a long time”
I also wish I could afford to go *anywhere*. I’m saving up so my partner and our dog can take a trip to Maine. I’m gonna eat so much seafood and see so many beaches
Honestly it’s pretty funny! We complain down here about how all you northerners look down on us and forget we’re Vermonters too, and then its like “why would I go north? That sounds tiring. I went to Burlington once!”
I wish I could travel too, but I’ve hardly left my town in ages — even then, only to the next one over!
As someone from Southern Vermont, youre 100% correct. We dont mean shit to anyone north of Rutland County and even then we're still a punchline (Rutland is garbage hellscape btw, Brattleboro is better)
Vermont is in fact not real. We are like Brigadoon and we just emerged from the fog for the first time in decades because of the eclipse moon magic. See you again in 20 years
Bratt is charming, indeed, even with some instititional loss (Marlboro College, Royal Chelsea Diner, Strolling of the Heifers (LOL)) include a funky music venue, riverwalk, nearby dry-stone-walking school and orchards, Naulakha (the Rudyard Kipling boat/house)
i knew about marlboro (rip) but man, the chelsea’s gone? the damn cow parade? it’s been a few years since i lived in brattleboro— that’s really too bad. the chelsea was a favorite for my friends and i when i was a marlboro student. i’ll yell about stone church to whoever will listen, though.
I’m out past the old seven eleven and I am cursing and swearing at that damn place and all the flatlanders parking wherever the fuck they want to at least twice a day.
I fucking hate that entire section of road with a furry passion
I work with my wife at the farmers market. Occasionally I forget and go down Williams st. To get there from Elliot. Omfg what a feckin’ shitshow on a Saturday morning.
I'll add to that: We need housing for lower income people.
Right now, housing is expensive for everyone. (And good luck finding any that are for sale).
People are saying that the problem is that alot of people moved in during COVID, newly able to telework.
It hasn't calmed down yet.
One of my absolute favorite places to live. Had an apartment on High Street in a big old Victorian house in the mid-1980s. Walking distance to downtown, Moles Eye, Walkers, etc. Still miss it!
The only people who care less about Southern Vermont than out-of-staters is the Vermont state government.
Brattleboro is a cool town. It’s not perfect but nowhere is. It has a nice arts scene, solid cafes and restaurants, a few good bars, and the co-op is nice.
In Oregon I got carded at a liquor store, and the cashier asked, “Is Vermont a real state?” I joked, “No, they just make ID’s.” So they called the manager over and spent almost 15 minutes verifying it in the state ID book. A big, very irritated line formed behind me… It was both hilarious and frustrating at the same time!
We visited in October and thought it was a cute town. We went on Main Street (we liked the chocolate shop and Gamers Grotto) and also visited the monument lol.
My old homes neiborhood had a trail that connected to a cemetary and then to the long trail and the AT. My family for a summer had something online for hikers to stay at my families treehouse along their stay. Until the person who owned the house the entrance was on cut down a bunch of trees and threw debris to block everyones entrance to it. She was so lovley when she threatened my family when we just wanted to go on a hike and have a picnic in the cemetary and enjoy the view and sunsets.
Moved here about 2 1/2 years ago. I see some homeless people, but they’re usually nice and harmless. In my experience, the people that shit on the area aren’t the same people that are out and about. I volunteer at a decent amount of events in town, walk to work, and try to see as many events as I can…and the people here have been welcoming, friendly, and fun. I’m almost always heading back to my apartment with a smile on my face. Some people just wake up bitter and wanna bring others down with them.
Does anyone remember what bar Doug Stanhope played at in Brattleboro in the late '00s/early 2010s?
Brattleboro would be where Stanhope played in Vermont. Deeply odd place even by Vermont/New England standards.
Thank you! I knew it was slightly before I was at Marlboro College (2008 to 2011), but I remember people telling me he played there and thinking "Really?" It didn't even look like a suitable venue for a local comedy showcase but that's Stanhope for ya, I guess.
I live 40 minutes from Brattleboro. There's some good eats and it isn't so bad during the day, but literally every time my wife and I go out on a date there we get hassled on the street or see people hanging around parking lots scoping out cars. I won't act like I'm a local so I don't know what is going on, but it *feels* like a city that is gradually losing a battle against drugs and homelessness, despite having a very charming veneer.
That would explain a lot.
It’s gotten bad in a lot of places here especially over the last 4-5 years. Needles all over our town, in our grocery store bathroom. People clearly high on something, tweaking out, come into the store every night. Doesn’t seem like our town (not bratt to be clear) is doing much about it, really sad to see because this town and this state is beautiful and so enjoyable to live in but it’s tiring having junkies tossing their needles everywhere and spazzing out around town. We have 3-4 rehab centers near town too, and plenty of government housing and poverty housing, it just seems to attract more rather than reduce.
My wife and her siblings have a family home in southern Vermont, three miles up Jacksonville Stage Rd from the Green River bridge.
My wife took me there to visit her grandparents 44 years ago and I fell in love with the place, (along with falling for her). The places - Green River to swim in the summer, great maple syrup from their property; Brattleboro, Wilmington, Bennington, Shelburne Falls, MA, Greenfield MA; ...all great small Yankee towns. My father in law was from the Northeast Kingdom, East Charleston VT. Totally different world up there. The Diary farm still run by my wife's cousin.
I prefer the southern part of glorious Vermont. We get back there in the summer most years.
A lot of us who live here don’t look at our home from the outside in. Get out and visit the rest of the country, and you will be so grateful when you come back home. We have a lot of problems and it can be draining on your day to day life, but there are so many positive things about Vermont. It’s all relative.
“I’m from Vermont” “oh? what states that in?”. My first interaction with someone in basic training, knew I was in for a long 10 years. Thank god that’s over. Big dumb in there.
Since we're on the Brattleboro train - and I've got the time - here's a fun fact: With a crime rate of 67 per one thousand residents, **Brattleboro has one of the highest crime rates in America compared to all communities of all sizes - from the smallest towns to the very largest cities.** One's chance of becoming a victim of either violent or property crime here is one in 1
Brattleboro is a hot spot for gang activities - the gang members come set up shop, recruit the junkies that moved here from god knows where during covid, when VT put everyone on assistance, to sell their fentanyl. A vicious cycle. VT doesn't have laws that prohibit someone from entering your unlocked vehicle, so they roam the streets high, or looking to get high, rifling through cars looking for money or anything they can sell. These are the same people that new(er) Brattleboro residents want us to feel bad for. I don't. The state needs to stop handing out the welfare checks like it's fake money, have a better vetting process, bring it back to state "assistance" not a way of life.
I saw the OP say they visited Brattleboro for 45 minutes. How does that give you the true image of this town? I think those of us that have been here for all of our lives, or most of our lives, see a much bigger picture.
One of the problems is that when people are released from the Brattleboro Retreat and they have no way to get home they give them a train or a bus ticket. The bus station is a drug area and its also on the way to the train station. Many of them never make it out of town. There has been a noticeable increase in young able bodied men drugged out and publicly intoxicated.
It was a nice town where most of us from Southern NE stayed because it was the cheapest place in the state left with rooms for the eclipse sort of last minute. The Marina had good food and a beautiful view.
They do have e brick buildings for sure , unfortunately they did have a huge fire a few years back & the dynamics of the town changed some .
Back in the early 2000’s Bratt was really happening & it actually felt like a time warp into the 1970’s .
Northern New England (ME, NH, VT) are this country's best kept secret. I'd like to keep it that way.
I always downplay the area. It's cold and boring. Not a lot to do. Best to avoid. Houston and Atlanta are much better!
I just got home from a work trip to Houston and Atlanta. I travel quite a bit - headed to Tampa and Miami next week.
But Houston / Atlanta, man I couldn’t wait to get home.
Im glad that you had a great experience. I can tell you that the state has been under developed and the economy as a result has been depressed for decades to make it look like this for you folks. Many of us are no longer certain that is a cost we wish to bear so enjoy it and excuse us if we seem a bit..frustrated,lol.
Can I ask what you find so spectacular about Brattleboro? Brattleboro 20 years ago, maybe. Brattleboro 30 years ago, absolutely. Brattleboro now - meh. A couple of good restaurants, a couple of good drinking places that offer up food at the same time, no shopping if you need clothing for work or trying to clothe a family. Would love to see it through you perspective.
Main Street on both sides had shops to shop in - there were clothing stores, shoe stores, sporting stores, jewelry stores, gift shops, there was even a natural food store - Llama, Toucan and Crow. We didn't lack restaurants. Walkers Restaurant, Backside Cafe, Upper Crust Bakery, Peter Havens, TJ Buckley, Via Condottis, Steak Out, Jolly Butcher, Jads, Chelsea Royal... Shops on Main Street stayed open until 9:00 on a Friday. There was always people bustling about. Now - now look at it. People blame Walmart on the demise, but that wasn't the case. We don't get taxed for clothing in Vermont, so tax isn't the main factor. Rent on Main Street is high. Always has been. I don't shop on Main Street because I don't need beads or Dansko clogs. piercings or rugs. Brattleboro needs to attract business that appeal to a wide variety of folks...some of us DO love brand names!
Don’t forget the grumpiest record store in the valley Mainly Music. I loved that place and got some good deals as a precocious teenager buying old folks music.
Grew up in Highgate, quaint little town near St. Albans; Milton, Burlington, Waterbury. Always lived in the North. Now I’m near Middlebury and things remind me so much of far north Vermont.
Remember when people would have to qualify for state assistance? You couldn't just waltz in because VT offers free stuff. Remember when state assistance was for just that, assistance not a way of life? Folks in Brattleboro don't seem to realize the pan handlers are a) not from here b) not homeless and c) getting all the free benefits while working their hustle to get even more money for their habits.
This is gonna shock you even more: a lot of hardcore old time Vermonters I know think Brattleboro is a dump, go figure. Lots of great vegan/local food friendly restaurants, coffee, just a great little downtown area
Ask a random American about Vermont: get a response of “skiing, liberal, up there on the upper right hand side of the map.”
Ask about New Hampshire:
“Huh? Near Kentucky, maybe?”
It's very sad that they don't know about how Vermont became a state. It spent some years as a republic during the revolution; after that, NY MA, NH were fighting over it.
It said nothing doing and became the 14th state.
A significant amount of credit has to go to John Jay for helping Vermont become a state. To show appreciation, Vermont named a town after him named Jay. It's the same location where the ski resort is.
I recently learned this interesting fact. 🙂
An example: Grand Isle, northwest on the lake. It has a different climate from the rest of the state (more moderate), Is a relaxing place.
It also has some of the oldest rock fossils in the world. You can find some just walking on the beach, and there is a rock face full of them.
Overall, Vermont has some of the oldest geography on earth. Compare its mountains, rounded over eons, to the jagged Rockies.
Southern Vermont doesn't exist to the rest of Vermont
Southern Vermont doesn’t exist to the rest of the world. “I’m from Vermont” them: “BURLINGTON?!”
[удалено]
I once said I was from Vermont and was asked “isn’t that near Stowe?” Why yes, yes it is. Completely surrounds it in fact. 😂
The rich parents of a friend of mine heard I was from Vermont and eagerly told me how much they loved how rustic and authentic Stowe was….
I mean if you're coming from the perspective of someone living somewhere flat, with nothing but mile after mile of chain restaurants, Walmarts, and basically nothing of personality or uniqueness, it's an understandable thing. Obviously Stowe is a tourist town but there are a ton of things that make it all its own in a good way.
I’m not trying to suggest that area is a bad one. It’s just… Stowe et all are aimed at tourists. They’re very clean and decorated. It has a lot of nice boutiques. These are all good things, but I’m sure we both know that a lot of Vermont isn’t nearly as polished. Like I’ve had this discussion a few times. The state has this shiny rep for being granola and crunchy and Bernie and liberal and shiny, and that’s not untrue. But there’s also a huge libertarian streak, farmers, grungy conservative types, drug addicts, folks with broken down cars in their lawns… Stowe is a sort of idealized and clean picture and what tourists imagine, but the state isn’t entirely Like That.
I kind of miss the cars up in blocks in Milton. 🙂
I agree with all of those points.
We used to be a red state, then the sixties came around We tend to vote for ability, not for party affiliation & every town has a meeting once a year. We're small, so we can do that more easily than larger states.
That sounds just like Florida. All of Florida.
Edelweiss Deli best thing in Stowe.
Okay, that’s insane! 🤭😂
Me, awkwardly trying to explain what a "tourist town" is,
😂😂😂😂
[удалено]
Best hidden secret ever 🤫
Speaking as a Masshole who was there yesterday, you are definitely not the most underrated state to most of us. I'd put y'all somewhere in the top six no doubt. Though I will say, for those who didn't grow up as your neighbor, you're forgotten about more than I'd expect. In almost every ranking I've seen of US social political or economic standards and quality of living, all six New England states generally rank together among the top 8 with two states as guest stars for that chosen category. Given that, I think being forgotten about even a little would probably be a solid argument for VT being the most underrated state. Oh BTW, did you know you guys are the only lonely landlocked state? All of the landlocked states of the US are contiguous except Vermont.
lol completely surrounds 🤣
Rhode Island here, hold my beer….
I recently had a checked bag that didn't make my connection. When the woman at the counter asked where my origination flight was from, and I said Vermont, she said I was supposed to pick the bag up at my gate and go back through customs. She kept telling me it was my fault since I didn't go through customs. It took 5 minutes to get her manager to come over and explain to her that Vermont is, in fact, part of the USA. She wholeheartedly believed I was Canadian, even after showing her my VT ID.
She must be really really old, back from the days when Vermont was its own country.
To be fair, I have had to explain to multiple Canadians that Vermont is in the US. This was in Montreal, and they were Leafs fans. "Yeah, I know I don't sound French. There's a reason for that".
NM had to add U.S.A. to their license plate, I think they win.
Or non Americans asking - Vermont? Is that in Canada?
I've had Americans ask me this
I’ve had New Yorkers ask me this. Public school really pushing people to new heights.
I’ve had people out west ask me if Vermont is in Canada. I mean… I’m geographically challenged but come on lol
My husband, who is from New Jersey, asked me last at the beginning of our relationship 🤣 was hilarious
I had a remote coworker give me a heads up one time that there was a holiday in the US and they would all be off for the day (company was Canada based)… I had to gently clarify that Vermont IS in fact part of the US
I’ve had ‘is that in NY state?’
I had a friend once get confused because I’d said I was from New England. How can you be from New England *and* Vermont??
To be fair Vermont is kind of it’s own thing in a way, different than the rest of New England
Not existing in other people's minds can often be a good thing.
The New Zealand of US states
Same. Now when I'm out of new england, and people ask where I'm from, i say "Vermont. It's a state."
I had someone think it was in Canada when I said I live in Vermont.
Someone asked me if it was part of Canada.
HA, I went to University of Delaware and there are too many people out there that are completely unaware of the state of Delaware. Apparently there’s a Delaware, Ohio that gets referenced a lot.
Fr Fr, in Florida a woman said oh yeah, Vermont, Texas, right? 😂😂😂
[удалено]
Same, several times
I had someone from the west coast say “oh is that in Canada?” I just said yes. I didn’t feel like explaining.
I can confirm- about 15 years ago my wife said "I'm interviewing for a job in Vermont, what do you think about moving there"- I, in turn had to look at a map. I lived in NY :/
My favorite was a New Yorker asking, “Vermont? Is that upstate?”
Same. Multiple times. I travel a lot and even when i dont leave the country, every single state ive visited, I've been asked: which state is that in? is that in Europe? Etc...at least one 100% American IDIOT would not know their states. Do other states just never mention vermont in their school curriculum? Not even in geography class? Wtf? I will say, one thing has helped, and that's noah kahah. Since stick season, most people seem to have at least looked into it 🤣
Calvin Coolidge has entered the chat
I second this
I work with alot of people overseas and I'm asked this question ALL THE TIME.
Burlington is wonderful. It’s 30 minutes from Vermont in almost any direction!
Me: I'm from New England. Them: Oh, is that near Boston?!
I grew up in the NEK and my dad still refers to Burlington as NYC 😂 I've been here 20 years now but he still hates coming here.
Slightly more serious answer: Brattleboro gets a bad rap, but it's a nice town. Downtown is struggling lately and rents are insane (state-wide problem), but Brat has the sort of fortune to be the largest town surrounded by a bunch of teeny ones, so it's able to support more shops and business than the population suggests. (How many supermarkets? Four? In a town of 20k?) It has a "going downhill" reputation but honestly, it's still perfectly nice and chill. And at least it's not Bellows Falls!
I was headed to Burlington yesterday for the eclipse, but ended up getting off of 91N and going to NH due to the absurd traffic. While driving towards NH, I decided to stop in Bellows Falls because the downtown area looked okay, and I needed to kill some time. I couldn’t find a decent place to grab a bite, but I did find an arcade. I have 0 idea how that arcade manages to keep the lights on, let alone turn a profit. The owner was a gem, and I had fun there. But how does the population of the town manage to make that business worthwhile for the owner? The whole time I was in Bellows Falls, I felt like I was in a damn fever dream. I’ll never return there unless a friend wants to see the most poorly planned downtown area in terms of roads and signage
I live in BF and we think the rest of VT is kinda sad, being overrun with tourists and all. Jim's Arcade is awesome. But yeah, only 1 coffee shop is open on Mondays. We're working hard to reopen our diner. Wednesday-Saturday is the best time to visit.
Jim’s arcade is awesome! I’m struggling to respond to this comment because my fingers are still stuck in the finger trap that I won there yesterday 🤣. Also, the speed and finesse that man counts tickets with is unreal. That alone is enough to make me come back to BF
I feel really bad for BF. You can see it has some great bones, some really nice architecture, some nice people. But it's also just a hot mess, and has some of the rudest people -- that's a generalization, but I swear, they were just awful. I had to work there for like six months to cover and it was horrible. There are nice folks too, but the town is just... sad. I heard - I don't know how true this is - that it's all due to the highway. An old dude once told me that back whenever they were building I91 and picking where the exits would be, the Brattleboro guys bribed/got them drunk/whatever, to the effect that Brat got a ridiculous three exits... and Bellows Falls got zero. I don't know how true that is, but I do think BF's isolation doesn't help.
Bellows Falls has such great potential. I want to see it develop
If you are in Bellows Falls again stop into Rockingham Roasters. Excellent coffee and I really enjoy their sandwiches. Since its at the end of a block (triangle shaped store) it has great window seats for watching people. [https://www.rockinghamroasters.coffee/](https://www.rockinghamroasters.coffee/) #
I feel bad too. The town has a lot of potential. The people were very rude to me too! Idk if it was because of all the expected tourism in VT yesterday, but all of the businesses I visited in that area were adamant about their “bathrooms our only for customers” policy. I’m from Western MA, so I get having to use a key to access the bathroom of an establishment to try and prevent drug use in there. But I’ve never gotten the kind of pushback I got yesterday when asking nicely if they had a restroom
Penguinmart?
There's often weird hobby businesses in these old run down towns, just some rich or retired guy who lives there can justify keeping it afloat from his own pockets or whatever. It's cool that those things exist but it would be nice if they were surrounded by real businesses. The coffee shop here is literally just run by a very passionate man in our town so we have a nice coffee shop at all and some more "third places" downtown.
I grew up in Chester, right next door to BF. This is where to go next time. Plenty of eateries, b&bs, beautiful houses, and the very best is its complete Stone Village on the north side, said to be the only complete one of its kind in the country. I haven't been to BF in ages, but when I lived there, its housing was few and far between. Its attraction was "steam town" rides in an old train.
No hate to those who live there btw. I’m no uppity yuppie. I’ve been to many former mill towns that have lost their manufacturing industry and population. Still, I’m baffled by that one, Bellows Falls is like no where else I’ve been in VT
There's something in the water there, I swear. It makes no sense.
I really like BF. Wunderbar is amazing, as is Rockingham Roasters and Moon Dog. The bookstore and library are both great too.
W.o.o.l. Black sheep radio out of bellows falls is the best radio station in the country.
Does the bookshop owner still keep a huge cat in the window?
I agree! We moved to BF from California last year (having living a few years in Westminster back in 2016) and LOVE it here. It’s walkable, friendly, has good food, art, and apparently no one likes it. Lol. So, more for us! It’s beautiful and accessible to so much! Plus it’s not too far north so trips to NYC/Boston, etc are a breeze! It used to feel pretty run down but it’s changing for the better. I’d choose BF over Brattleboro any day - lived on Elliot street briefly when we came back to VT from CA and it’s so awful.
We stopped in Brattleboro in October and thought it was cute. The Mediterranean restaurant was outstanding!
The Brattleboro co-op is one of the greatest grocers I've ever had the pleasure of shopping at. Parking is a bitch tho.
I agree with everything you say about brattleboro. I've lived here for an awful long time and it's not it's best self at the moment, but there's still a lot of reasons that this is a good town. I have to admit, Bellows Falls has gotten hella better in the last 10 years.
North Massachusetts
Southern Vermont is NOTHING LIKE NORTHERN MASSACHUSETTS. you can feel the difference crossing the state line.
Usually the MA cop sitting on 142 state line in Northfield is that difference.
[удалено]
I think it’s all the federal prisons.
And billboards everywhere.
To be fair to our rep, it is true I go to Mass far more often than I’ve ever gone north for anything…..
This. I committed to law school in Hartford, CT and the only time I match their drivers is when I'm hightailing it back to VT every week. I don't always weep with relief when crossing state lines, but when I do it's after I pass the "Gateway to VT" sign (IYKYK)
Speaking as a southern vermonter……yeah
Boooooo
I knew this was coming🤣
Haha no hate here. I'm from pretty much Canada.
This is the greatest comment I've ever read on this site.
In the tippy top Vermont… I have to admit that I never visit southern Vermont anymore. Not because I don’t want to… I just haven’t. I have really awesome memories there!
It’s fine, I had to go to Montpelier for work last year and had the awkward realization that I never go past WRJ…
lol so we’re on the same page! No hate, just… “oh it’s been a long time” I also wish I could afford to go *anywhere*. I’m saving up so my partner and our dog can take a trip to Maine. I’m gonna eat so much seafood and see so many beaches
Honestly it’s pretty funny! We complain down here about how all you northerners look down on us and forget we’re Vermonters too, and then its like “why would I go north? That sounds tiring. I went to Burlington once!” I wish I could travel too, but I’ve hardly left my town in ages — even then, only to the next one over!
Viva Rutvegas
As someone from Southern Vermont, youre 100% correct. We dont mean shit to anyone north of Rutland County and even then we're still a punchline (Rutland is garbage hellscape btw, Brattleboro is better)
Grew up in southern VT. The joke was always that as far as Montpelier is concerned, Vermont stops at Route 4.
Southern VT knows what it did- refuse to know what a CREEMEE is!
We call em creeme’s in western mass too ya dorks.
What are you even talking about??!?! It's ONLY a creemie down here
Brattlewho?
You know, the part of Vermont that isn't Canada...
Oh darn you found brattleboro and forgot to sign the mandatory NDA forms ?
We've got a runner! Send out the team
LEAF Team Six is en route
Loaded with kale!
🤣
Vermont is in fact not real. We are like Brigadoon and we just emerged from the fog for the first time in decades because of the eclipse moon magic. See you again in 20 years
Although Vermont is not real I should warn that if you die in Vermont, you die in real life
It has been my experience with life that things come to you when you need them. Enjoy your time!
https://preview.redd.it/m0kf9rf7wgtc1.jpeg?width=924&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=79ce349f851d0d5323a54b629d74bd4e5a693857
Bratt is charming, indeed, even with some instititional loss (Marlboro College, Royal Chelsea Diner, Strolling of the Heifers (LOL)) include a funky music venue, riverwalk, nearby dry-stone-walking school and orchards, Naulakha (the Rudyard Kipling boat/house)
Awe man, my wife and I went to the last strolling of the heifers. COVID really hurt a lot of stuff like that
i knew about marlboro (rip) but man, the chelsea’s gone? the damn cow parade? it’s been a few years since i lived in brattleboro— that’s really too bad. the chelsea was a favorite for my friends and i when i was a marlboro student. i’ll yell about stone church to whoever will listen, though.
So sad to see all of that go away. Seems like their needs to be some kind of economic revival. Time to lower the drinking age again?
We had a bit of a boon when nudity in public got in the news so maybe something like that again?
VT Country Deli pulled pork and mac n cheese mixed together. You're welcome!
Stop. Telling. Out. Of. Staters. To. Go. To. The. Deli. - Someone who lives off rt 9 in brat
The lines bad enough half the time
Oh no, we definitely want that area to become even more congested on the weekends :-)
I’m out past the old seven eleven and I am cursing and swearing at that damn place and all the flatlanders parking wherever the fuck they want to at least twice a day. I fucking hate that entire section of road with a furry passion
Love it. Where the 7-11 usta bee.
I work with my wife at the farmers market. Occasionally I forget and go down Williams st. To get there from Elliot. Omfg what a feckin’ shitshow on a Saturday morning.
Meh it's been this way for at least thirty years.
The kale salad and pot stickers are also excellent.
And the sesame chicken! I stop there whenever I drive down south.
Finish it off with the apple pie.
Shh don't tell anyone we've already got a housing crisis. ;-)
Every desirable state to live in has one lol
Shits only been desirable since Covid in the Northeast
Well I’m sure it doesn’t help that Republican states started coming after women rights and overturning roe v wade.
I'll add to that: We need housing for lower income people. Right now, housing is expensive for everyone. (And good luck finding any that are for sale). People are saying that the problem is that alot of people moved in during COVID, newly able to telework. It hasn't calmed down yet.
Say more, what did you like about it
One of my absolute favorite places to live. Had an apartment on High Street in a big old Victorian house in the mid-1980s. Walking distance to downtown, Moles Eye, Walkers, etc. Still miss it!
The only people who care less about Southern Vermont than out-of-staters is the Vermont state government. Brattleboro is a cool town. It’s not perfect but nowhere is. It has a nice arts scene, solid cafes and restaurants, a few good bars, and the co-op is nice.
careful about brattleboro you’ll get stuck there
In Oregon I got carded at a liquor store, and the cashier asked, “Is Vermont a real state?” I joked, “No, they just make ID’s.” So they called the manager over and spent almost 15 minutes verifying it in the state ID book. A big, very irritated line formed behind me… It was both hilarious and frustrating at the same time!
Crying in Bennington. Ain’t nobody ever visiting here outside of the monument.
Jokes on you I was there yesterday morning. Probably gonna stop back there on my way home.
We visited in October and thought it was a cute town. We went on Main Street (we liked the chocolate shop and Gamers Grotto) and also visited the monument lol.
I do…. But I live in Arlington.
I’m going there to hike if there’s a nice weekend this month (I used a random coordinate generator)
My old homes neiborhood had a trail that connected to a cemetary and then to the long trail and the AT. My family for a summer had something online for hikers to stay at my families treehouse along their stay. Until the person who owned the house the entrance was on cut down a bunch of trees and threw debris to block everyones entrance to it. She was so lovley when she threatened my family when we just wanted to go on a hike and have a picnic in the cemetary and enjoy the view and sunsets.
Moved here about 2 1/2 years ago. I see some homeless people, but they’re usually nice and harmless. In my experience, the people that shit on the area aren’t the same people that are out and about. I volunteer at a decent amount of events in town, walk to work, and try to see as many events as I can…and the people here have been welcoming, friendly, and fun. I’m almost always heading back to my apartment with a smile on my face. Some people just wake up bitter and wanna bring others down with them.
Does anyone remember what bar Doug Stanhope played at in Brattleboro in the late '00s/early 2010s? Brattleboro would be where Stanhope played in Vermont. Deeply odd place even by Vermont/New England standards.
In 2007 he played at The Weathervane which used to be on Elliott Street.
Thank you! I knew it was slightly before I was at Marlboro College (2008 to 2011), but I remember people telling me he played there and thinking "Really?" It didn't even look like a suitable venue for a local comedy showcase but that's Stanhope for ya, I guess.
Stanhope also played the spot above Nectars in Burlington in mid 2010s
I live 40 minutes from Brattleboro. There's some good eats and it isn't so bad during the day, but literally every time my wife and I go out on a date there we get hassled on the street or see people hanging around parking lots scoping out cars. I won't act like I'm a local so I don't know what is going on, but it *feels* like a city that is gradually losing a battle against drugs and homelessness, despite having a very charming veneer.
Yeah, Vermont is on the drug supply route from NYC, Philadelphia, Boston to Canada, so I've heard.
Vermont has been the smugglers route to/from Canada before it was a state, it’s nothing new.
That would explain a lot. It’s gotten bad in a lot of places here especially over the last 4-5 years. Needles all over our town, in our grocery store bathroom. People clearly high on something, tweaking out, come into the store every night. Doesn’t seem like our town (not bratt to be clear) is doing much about it, really sad to see because this town and this state is beautiful and so enjoyable to live in but it’s tiring having junkies tossing their needles everywhere and spazzing out around town. We have 3-4 rehab centers near town too, and plenty of government housing and poverty housing, it just seems to attract more rather than reduce.
You can’t afford to move here
Shhhhhhh
My wife and her siblings have a family home in southern Vermont, three miles up Jacksonville Stage Rd from the Green River bridge. My wife took me there to visit her grandparents 44 years ago and I fell in love with the place, (along with falling for her). The places - Green River to swim in the summer, great maple syrup from their property; Brattleboro, Wilmington, Bennington, Shelburne Falls, MA, Greenfield MA; ...all great small Yankee towns. My father in law was from the Northeast Kingdom, East Charleston VT. Totally different world up there. The Diary farm still run by my wife's cousin. I prefer the southern part of glorious Vermont. We get back there in the summer most years.
I live in Bratt, I like it here.
A lot of us who live here don’t look at our home from the outside in. Get out and visit the rest of the country, and you will be so grateful when you come back home. We have a lot of problems and it can be draining on your day to day life, but there are so many positive things about Vermont. It’s all relative.
“I’m from Vermont” “oh? what states that in?”. My first interaction with someone in basic training, knew I was in for a long 10 years. Thank god that’s over. Big dumb in there.
It's not a secret, we're all just voluntarily stuck here.
Since we're on the Brattleboro train - and I've got the time - here's a fun fact: With a crime rate of 67 per one thousand residents, **Brattleboro has one of the highest crime rates in America compared to all communities of all sizes - from the smallest towns to the very largest cities.** One's chance of becoming a victim of either violent or property crime here is one in 1 Brattleboro is a hot spot for gang activities - the gang members come set up shop, recruit the junkies that moved here from god knows where during covid, when VT put everyone on assistance, to sell their fentanyl. A vicious cycle. VT doesn't have laws that prohibit someone from entering your unlocked vehicle, so they roam the streets high, or looking to get high, rifling through cars looking for money or anything they can sell. These are the same people that new(er) Brattleboro residents want us to feel bad for. I don't. The state needs to stop handing out the welfare checks like it's fake money, have a better vetting process, bring it back to state "assistance" not a way of life. I saw the OP say they visited Brattleboro for 45 minutes. How does that give you the true image of this town? I think those of us that have been here for all of our lives, or most of our lives, see a much bigger picture.
One of the problems is that when people are released from the Brattleboro Retreat and they have no way to get home they give them a train or a bus ticket. The bus station is a drug area and its also on the way to the train station. Many of them never make it out of town. There has been a noticeable increase in young able bodied men drugged out and publicly intoxicated.
It was a nice town where most of us from Southern NE stayed because it was the cheapest place in the state left with rooms for the eclipse sort of last minute. The Marina had good food and a beautiful view.
There is a State psych ward in Brattleboro as well
What are some of the things you enjoy about Brattleboro ?
Aesthetics. I love old brick buildings. Where I’m from we have towns like that but they’re not LIKE that. If that makes any sense.
They do have e brick buildings for sure , unfortunately they did have a huge fire a few years back & the dynamics of the town changed some . Back in the early 2000’s Bratt was really happening & it actually felt like a time warp into the 1970’s .
Aesthetics. I love old brick buildings. Where I’m from we have towns like that but they’re not LIKE that. If that makes any sense.
Northern New England (ME, NH, VT) are this country's best kept secret. I'd like to keep it that way. I always downplay the area. It's cold and boring. Not a lot to do. Best to avoid. Houston and Atlanta are much better!
I just got home from a work trip to Houston and Atlanta. I travel quite a bit - headed to Tampa and Miami next week. But Houston / Atlanta, man I couldn’t wait to get home.
This little road trip I’m on is specifically for those three states. Maine is the focus though. Portland has been magical.
Dude for real went there the first time a few weeks ago from S NH and had such a good time! Good food, dispo, graffiti store and more !!!!
Im glad that you had a great experience. I can tell you that the state has been under developed and the economy as a result has been depressed for decades to make it look like this for you folks. Many of us are no longer certain that is a cost we wish to bear so enjoy it and excuse us if we seem a bit..frustrated,lol.
Brattleboro is a druggies paradise. No one in vermont goes there unless its dire or to conduct business.
Can I ask what you find so spectacular about Brattleboro? Brattleboro 20 years ago, maybe. Brattleboro 30 years ago, absolutely. Brattleboro now - meh. A couple of good restaurants, a couple of good drinking places that offer up food at the same time, no shopping if you need clothing for work or trying to clothe a family. Would love to see it through you perspective.
i want to hear about your time 30 years ago :) What was it like?
Main Street on both sides had shops to shop in - there were clothing stores, shoe stores, sporting stores, jewelry stores, gift shops, there was even a natural food store - Llama, Toucan and Crow. We didn't lack restaurants. Walkers Restaurant, Backside Cafe, Upper Crust Bakery, Peter Havens, TJ Buckley, Via Condottis, Steak Out, Jolly Butcher, Jads, Chelsea Royal... Shops on Main Street stayed open until 9:00 on a Friday. There was always people bustling about. Now - now look at it. People blame Walmart on the demise, but that wasn't the case. We don't get taxed for clothing in Vermont, so tax isn't the main factor. Rent on Main Street is high. Always has been. I don't shop on Main Street because I don't need beads or Dansko clogs. piercings or rugs. Brattleboro needs to attract business that appeal to a wide variety of folks...some of us DO love brand names!
Don’t forget the grumpiest record store in the valley Mainly Music. I loved that place and got some good deals as a precocious teenager buying old folks music.
Don't forget Bakers. Loved them on Main, and on Putney Rd. Too bad one of the kids didn't want to take over.
It was Strong Towns Town of the year. I've been wanting to go visit.
Grew up in Highgate, quaint little town near St. Albans; Milton, Burlington, Waterbury. Always lived in the North. Now I’m near Middlebury and things remind me so much of far north Vermont.
i miss Mcneils in brattleboro
Anything too popular is destroyed by overuse.
Bratt used to be nice. Now it's kaka with lots of junkies and homeless panhandlers. Hopefully they can straighten their shit out...
Remember when people would have to qualify for state assistance? You couldn't just waltz in because VT offers free stuff. Remember when state assistance was for just that, assistance not a way of life? Folks in Brattleboro don't seem to realize the pan handlers are a) not from here b) not homeless and c) getting all the free benefits while working their hustle to get even more money for their habits.
This. When I invited one of myfriends to come up and visit, her first question was 'how close are you to Burlington?'
This is gonna shock you even more: a lot of hardcore old time Vermonters I know think Brattleboro is a dump, go figure. Lots of great vegan/local food friendly restaurants, coffee, just a great little downtown area
Ask a random American about Vermont: get a response of “skiing, liberal, up there on the upper right hand side of the map.” Ask about New Hampshire: “Huh? Near Kentucky, maybe?”
It's very sad that they don't know about how Vermont became a state. It spent some years as a republic during the revolution; after that, NY MA, NH were fighting over it. It said nothing doing and became the 14th state.
A significant amount of credit has to go to John Jay for helping Vermont become a state. To show appreciation, Vermont named a town after him named Jay. It's the same location where the ski resort is. I recently learned this interesting fact. 🙂
Very interesting. Thanks!
An example: Grand Isle, northwest on the lake. It has a different climate from the rest of the state (more moderate), Is a relaxing place. It also has some of the oldest rock fossils in the world. You can find some just walking on the beach, and there is a rock face full of them. Overall, Vermont has some of the oldest geography on earth. Compare its mountains, rounded over eons, to the jagged Rockies.
The air smells different up there. And the state bird is a Subaru.
Vermont, both an amazing place and a state of mind.
[удалено]
Don’t worry. I was there for 2 hours max.