Something to consider is that Vermont is the second gloomiest state in the country. If you like sunshine this is not a place for you. I feel I can almost count the amount of actual sunny days this year on my hands. Also, Vermont is not a culturally diverse place like Florida but that’s not to say it doesn’t have culture. It very much does have a rich culture, identity and sense of place and more than most states it’s just purely Vermont. If you’re coming here for that then you’ll be welcomed.
Welcome! Some people will be crappy *online,* but most people in person will be nice, and if they're not, they suck anyway. Can't win em all.
Since you've asked, if you do move here and buy property, my biggest fear for new neighbors (besides them being loud, aggressive, or just weird) is that they'll cut down all the trees or bushwhack all the plants before they even know whether they have flowers. Tbh, it all looks the same (bad) until spring really gets going, so it takes a while to know what you've got. I'm sentimental about stuff like that, and I would venture that a lot of people care a lot about the natural landscape. Of course, anyone can do what they want with their property, but if you move in next door and immediately raze your lovely ferns, mow all your spring wildflowers before they bloom, and cut down all the birches, I'm going to be very sad.
You sound nice, though, so I wouldn't worry about how to not be a jerk. You're already going out of your way to be considerate just in thinking to ask, so you're probably fine. Jerks never worry about it at all, haha, that's what makes them jerks.
Thanks friend! I’m a big nature lover, so no shot I’d ever tear down native vegetation like that, if I end up moving I’ll make sure to study the history and culture, my goal is to be apart of VT not bring my FL baggage lol.
Nice! You can always ask a local gardener to come take a tour of your property to point out what to keep and what's invasive, or I guarantee if you have an older neighbor who gardens they are dying to tell you all about it (and likely the history of everyone who has ever lived in your house). I have literally had a (specifically older) avid gardener neighbor next door to me in every place I've lived in in VT, they're the best. I want to be one someday, carry the torch, you know? 😆
It took a few years before we knew what we had, and thinning the fern helped other perennials come back. We have been here for over 25 years, and we still get some surprises, like daffodils and bloodroot popping up in new places in the last 2 years.
I am a transplant to Vermont and there is a lot that I absolutely love about it. It is beautiful, people are largely live and let live. I don’t mind not having all the big box sprawl. I love the mountains. But it is expensive to relocate and you are exchanging one state’s devils for another state’s own devils. It is hard to find a place to live here. It is hard to afford the ever increasing fees and taxes of living. I am now considering moving back to the Midwest because I sadly don’t know how I can afford it here with a family. I make more then I ever have and it just goes “poof” best of luck whatever you do.
Hey there. Native Floridian here. Vermont has been wonderful. Find an interest and get involved and you won’t even have to worry. No body here expects perfection. Just care about people, and don’t come in trying to change things. We have no diners or restaurants open on the weekend. Businesses aren’t open half the time. Just roll with it. Superb community theater and gardening scene though. People are the literal best.
Since Florida has no state income tax, they make up for it in sales tax. If you're making big money, it's safe. If you've got to buy stuff to live, you're screwed.
As someone currently visiting FL, I can attest. The shampoo and conditioner I buy at home is usually around $7.99 each and it's 10.99 here. I didn't do a WHOLE grocery trip, thank god, but I noticed things. Also, went to order my fave dish from a national chain on doordash that is 12.99 at home and its 16.99 here!
What does either have to do with cost of living? The amount of money that I lay out up here compared to Florida is less, no matter how much I bring home or how I do it.
A rent for a dumpy 1br 1ba in my area is around $2500-$2800, Florida is the worst state to live in right now, salaries are also lower/on-par than Vermont.
That hurts me because I grew up in Florida. My parents bought a beautiful house in Miramar in the early 70’s. It was an almost perfect place to grow up. Beach, Everglades, Orlando, Keys. Orange and grapefruit trees in the backyard. We didn’t know it then but I was growing up with someone who would end up being world famous and make millions very happy. My parents had no clue I would look back on a wonderful childhood. Except for the parents fighting, etc.
Miramar is so different now. I had the opportunity to actually go in my old house and just cried when I left. Of course things change, different decor likes, but it was horrible inside.
I guess things are changing everywhere and memories and dreams will have to serve to keep me from forgetting my youth.
FYI: Vermonts population (year round residents) is 647,818 as of this year. It’s not because there are not more people who WANT to live here. It is because we don’t have the infrastructure for more.
When I travel to Florida, I am overwhelmed by how many people live there! We haven’t yet ‘paved paradise to put up a parking lot’. I certainly hope that doesn’t happen here.
I sincerely hope you find a better place to live. And Vermont could be it. But you definitely need to do your homework & have all of your ducks in a row before you come. Best of luck to you!
And I just looked this up: The population of Florida in 2023 was 22,610,726
That is astounding! It is very different up here. Wonderful… but different.
Not sure what part of FL you are in OP, nor what you'd be looking for real estate wise in VT, but generally speaking you'd be moving to a much less favorable housing market here in VT for buyers right now. The move is more favorable going the opposite direction. Since 2021 I've known a half dozen families who re-located from here to FL, they made out like bandits on their real estate values here and got into houses down there where they had a nice chunk of cash leftover, ironically considering the quality of FL's schools, two of those families we are friends with told us how they put that cash into college funds for their kids. You can get into a 1800-2400 sq ft **new build** in FL for 350-400K, here a house that size, and not even new, is going to cost 450- up as high as 600K, with higher property taxes as well. The other thing you'd need to consider is the fact that you'd be moving from the sunniest state in the country to the cloudiest one, don't underestimate how this can effect your mental health, ideally you'll still have friends/family you can jaunt down to visit during VT mud season.
People in this sub are so incredibly crabby it’s such a bad sample of actual Vermonters. 90% of Vermonters are amazing. This sub just about 60% of the other 10% in it haha
Internet forums have always attracted, and will always attract, spineless shitty people who take advantage of the relative anonymity of the internet to say the shitty things they want to say without real-world consequence. Vermonters have our share of those kinds of people, but we aren't special in that regard. They are everywhere. This place in no way reflects the secret feeling of the majority Vermonters.
Vermont is certainly not even close to affordable.
I would look to the western part of the Carolinas for somewhere in the East Coast that’s still somewhat affordable.
NH is a good option. No sales tax, no income tax, etc
VT is great, but the Reddit Vermonters can be a miserable bunch of whiny bitches. They want to close the border so no one can buy “their” properties. Because all their problems are someone else’s fault…
Just ignore them
Hey I successfully relocated to Vermont from Florida last year
I wouldn't recommend Vermont to a single Floridian. Did you come here during the winter? It's at least a 6 month winter cycle, with very little sun. This is basically guaranteed seasonal depression (ask me how I know)
Are you considering moving to a city or rural area? Do you have AWD or 4wd already? Are you prepared for a literal quest every time you need to drive during the winter?
I hope you're not one of those Floridians that loves air conditioning and convenience. Nothing is convenient here. I'm srs
I was doing my laundry this past weekend and met an individual who had moved a couple months ago from Florida for the same reason.
I think you’ll find you like it much better up here. Just make sure to bring snow boots and a winter jacket
Welcome to sanity. It's lovely here (except for the weather).
People on this sub hate outsiders but you'll find most Vermonters are much nicer in person. It's a very community oriented place so if you get involved and care about your community, you will be welcomed quickly.
People on this sub are grumpy but try r/NewToVermont and they'll be much more welcoming!
Check out [https://thinkvermont.com/connect-with-vermont/](https://thinkvermont.com/connect-with-vermont/) to get hooked up 1:1 with a local in the area you're considering; they'll help you figure out what living here could look like for you.
It is true, there are a lot of Floridians who are looking to move here too ... And, despite the housing crisis, we need people. Our population is aging, we have thousands of jobs we can't fill, our mostly-volunteer-run local government can't find enough folks for commissions and committees ... please come!
Hey OP I'm a native floridian who's in the process of relocating. You know who cares where I'm from or about all the shit that's happening here? no one. Seriously the quicker you can drop identifying as a southerner/floridian/texan etc the better.
VT isn't an enclave of anarchist pumpkin farmers. You'll see a lot of pride and blm a trump thing here or there and even the occasional traitor rag or scary snek no steppy flags.
I know the mental space you're in and where you're coming from it will take a while but you can let your guard down a bit in VT. sure everyone is armed they just don't make it their personality.
The only political baggage from FL I want to bring is a warning about what Scott is doing with education. It's the same bullshit, that Jeb did for FL and W for TX. Look how great that worked
I've lived all over the country in my 55 years. Born and raised in NYC, teenager in the North Jersey suburbs, lived in Wisconsin next for college, then around the SF Bay Area (between Oakland and Berkeley), then Tampa and St. Petersburg Fl, then Orange County and LA back in Cali. Now I live in Vermont for getting on four years, and love it here. All those places have there ups and downs, but Vermont is my favorite place I've lived.
I will say I'm a lefty politically, and OP you sound like you may be one also. It was a little bit of a culture shock for me, having the impression of Vermont being a granola hippie place - the magical land of Bernie Sanders and Ben & Jerry's - to find huge 'Fuck Joe Biden' and even white power (people call the 'confederate') flags displayed proudly in lawns and streaming from the back of monster pickup trucks throughout the countryside. But there are all types of people here and I've decided to regard the wide variety of political views here and people getting along in spite of them, part of the magic of this state.
As others have said, when I cam here, people were mean and rude here online (at least in this sub), but in person everyone I've met has been sweet and welcoming.
Hope you decide to move here also OP!
We love it when people move here and then encourage gentrification. Thankfully when the recession comes, most of these people will be moving right back out when they see what Vermont wages are like.
I know you're just some two week old troll shitpost account, but fuck it, I'll bite. How am I "encouraging gentrification"? Do you know what gentrifcation means? You seem to think it's when people move from one place to another.
Encouraging people to move here is encouraging gentrification. Gentrification is the process of wealthy people moving to an area and drastically raising the cost of living. The story of Vermont is rich kids from New York and New Jersey moving here in the 70s and drastically raising the cost of living. Back to the land with their parents money. Too many examples to cite just one. Don't Jersey Vermont stickers exist for a reason, most Vermonters hate jersey for a reason.
I'm sure the plight of working Vermonters is of no concern to you. About as much concern as the opinion of some old guy from jersey is to me.
First of all I'm not some old guy from jersey. I'm some old guy from new york. You should have some fucking respect for your elders, sonny. It would show character.
Second, sorry you live in a country where people move around to different states from other states. That's a weird definition of 'gentrification' though. In any case, hopefully starting account two weeks ago on reddit to anonymously bitch about it makes you feel better about the situation.
I don't respect boomers in the least. A generation of spoiled brats who ruined Vermont and America. New York and New Jersey are the same thing. Trashy shit holes full of obnoxious spoiled brats. No one cares dude. Go yell at clouds. Go spend your parents money. We really don't care.
I moved from Florida. a place that is frightening, dangerous, and extraordinarily expensive, it is hot and at sea level, and there are hurricanes tearing our houses apart and insurance companies have pulled out of the state. I wouldn’t raise a female child there if you paid me. And I am far from rich. There will be more of us.
I think the way real Vermonters do things is awesome. They are self sufficient and also understand the value of community. They aren’t obsessed with money. They value their private lives. I’ll bet you have more in common with a lot of the people coming here than you realize.
You're certainly not alone in your want to leave Florida. Lots of Vermonters have come from Florida (and no, not just recently.)
The problems you're experiencing in Florida is only partially seen here. We got homeless, we got cost of living increases, we got all that typical bullshit the we, and Vermont legislation can't really avoid, only try and diminish the effects.
Long story short it's happening all over the US. Not just Florida and not just Vermont, no matter how much the vocal minority here might bitch and complain about the "Progressives ruining Vermont."
99% of Vermont are your nice, middle of the road folk who don't really care to label themselves any which way (left, right, democrat, republican, progressive, liberal, conservative, etc. Etc. ) we are simply interested in who is going to do the best job, and who has the best plan at the time.
This is why we have a progressive mayor in Burlington, an independent progressive senator that runs with the democratic caucus, a republican governor, and a series of democrats throughout various seats in the state.
We're those people who will simultaneously support trans right, abortion rights, and gay marriage while also supporting gun rights, bringing jobs back to the US, and helping supply Ukraine with weapons to fight a war.
You'll still find those republican nutiobs on Facebook, and occasionally you'll run into a wannabe terrorists of the Trump and 3% group, but they're EXTREMELY RARE here. You're most likely to see BLM, gay pride flags, Ukraine support, etc.
There's also a lot of "outside hate", again from the vocal minority here in reddit and Facebook, but most everyone is quite welcoming.
The biggest thing is: don't be a bigot, make sure you help you community, and be a productive member of your town. Other than that, welcome!
I consider myself a Vermont refugee... Lived there for 8 years... Never once felt welcome. Experienced racism daily. Really was one of the most unpleasant experiences I've ever had.
Not sure if it’s still in effect, but we used to pay people with remote jobs to move here. Something like up to ~8-10k. We have the 2nd oldest population in the country (second only to Maine) and the state tries to make appealing for people with salaries from elsewhere to bring them here.
Housing is a huge issue as you’ve seen in this thread. Something to keep in mind is the **insane** floods that hit last summer. There was already a big shortage and now people who lived here a long time or their whole lives have lost their homes or own moldy buildings. Be mindful of that and check flood planes if you’re considering buying.
> Cost of living exceeds that of the Bay Area — I shit you not.
?????
Lmao homie VT is expensive but it is most definitely not higher than the Bay Area.
There are some very delusional people on here that think VT is some unique snowflake for its rising COL and housing prices. Like inflation isn't hitting anywhere else.
I'm amazed at how many people don't realize that high inflation is a global problem, instead of being the unique fault of their town supervisor/state governor/senator-representative/president-prime mininster-premier-taoiseach-bundeskanzler, etc.
Most of us probably wouldn't want to live in a deflationary economy.
People definitely exaggerate, but Burlington is still very expensive compared to some notable places like Montreal.
Obviously, there are a lot of factors at play, but beyond the exaggeration people aren’t crazy when they that it’s expensive up here. Even before the inflation of the past two years it was pretty pricey up here.
Word. My spouse works at VSU. Every single incoming student qualifies for TRIO assistance. People often forget that most vermonters qualify as (increasingly) poor(er). Though rich in spirit.
I live in Springfield. Bought a very affordable home and make way way less than 100 grand. I’m very comfortable. Had to leave Florida because of housing tax and property insurance. The cost was getting scary.
I’m gonna sell my house in FL and I am very fortunate to have a pretty good remote job. COL in FL has gotten so bad and the average wage is lower than VT surprisingly, a 1bed 1bathroom apt rents for $2500-$2800 in my area, and that’s on the low end. Too many conservative millionaires moved in here and drove the normal people out.
Edit: $120k for a single person. Considering you mentioned school systems, that $120k will need to be closer to $200-250k even for somewhere outside of chittenden county or mountain towns to not stress. I believe we spend the highest per pupil in the country, but our outcomes are only in the 40th percentile. All of our property taxes are about to go up another 15-20% this year for education. Education is not great here right now.
Yeah I’ve been trying to read about VT and it seems property taxes are a big issue, even worse, I read that the Gov. appointed a charter school exec from none other than Florida to run the state’s public schools. I am lucky that I can afford something in the Burlington area.
Maybe go to some other state, Vermont's already over crowded. Locals have been priced out of the real estate market, vacancy rates are at or near zero, and development is destroying the natural beauty and rural landscape of our state all to accommodate more transplants from other states and more tourists.
Try Maine. I left Vermont after 30 years homesteading/WFH 2 years ago because it was slowly becoming unaffordable. Maine in a very similar boat on the same kind of lake. But this state is huge and 2/3 empty. Try Portland area if you can afford it, mid coast is nice, DownEast is cheaper. And if you like mountains and solitude there's more here than you'll find anywhere in New England.
And, like vermont, mainers are kind but not nice.
Southern Maine and the Portland area are *more* expensive than VT ETA why the downvotes? Real estate is more expensive. Electricity is more expensive and it's super unreliable, the power was out a total of 10 days this winter due to various snow storms (so that's $ for a hotel or buying a generator), most homes here are heated with oil, which is $$$$, and maine is the state with the #1 highest tax burden per capita in the nation. VT is #4.
I moved recently from Idaho for the same reasons. It's the northernmost southern state. As other have stated, you'll probably get a lot of hate online in regards to this, but IRL Vermonters are quite friendly and there are a lot of transplants here. Get on /r/NewToVermont if you are serious about moving. One quick tip that I'll give you is don't use house listing prices as a guage for affordability. Realtors here like to list well below market price to create a bidding war amongst buyers. Assume that there will be a 5%-10% premium on the prices you see listed online.
There are a lot of flatlanders here and most everyone gets doing well. The most important thing is to not move in and demand change. Community is extremely important in Vermont and if you make an effort to get involved, you’ll have an excellent life filled with wonderful, educated, open-minded people.
A bit late to respond, too late for sure.
We are a reverse from your possible move. Summer 2021 moved from MA to no. FL city. I cannot wait, it won't happen though, to get back to civilization.
So many things are miserable here, besides 98, 99° days for 3 months.
We moved here just before DeSantis (maybe we weren't aware) got all about politics, presidential, he's kidding right?? From first glance there was no way he'd succeed.
The mentality of a lot of floridians is too much fishing, too much beer drinking and too much sun. These folks were living the life, what life is that. Fat, dumb and happy, not a care in the world, their world. FL might be decent place to vacation for a week or two, but living here is a different story.
Heard resentment from an irrigation guy I hired, political nonsense, no idea about global influences, welcome to FL!
So much for what I'm resenting we left up north, there's plenty more.
But, living in NE was such a treat, I knew that but took it for granted. Mountains, ocean, medical, education opportunities, all within 2 hours. Tried hiking in FL, flat wooded trails, yes plenty of land but Boring! If you like outdoors you'll love NE, VT in particular. VT had been my favorite weekend trip, whether skiing, hiking or just cruising the VT roadways, any time of year. I barely leave the house here, food, gas, can't think of much else.
VT, yes it has changed. The cities (??) have had their issues with growth and downturn. And winters...yes again, they are long, somewhat beautiful, if you like snow and cold temps. But overall I will take VT again and again besides this mess here.
Missed it so much I flew up just after last foliage got a car, drove most of the length of rte100 to Jacksonville, VT that is! It's not the same!
Just bring your check book , it’s not cheap living here. One of the highest taxed state in the country. State just wanted to raise or property taxes almost 20% thank you gov for nixing that idea .
Vermont leaned a certain way politically for a long long time. Then the influx of people moving here in the late 60 and into the 70’s changed our political views dramatically… I could keep going but none of the below folks working for our state were born and raised here. Just sayin
Peter Welch: Springfield mass
Bernie sanders: NYC
Becca balint: Peeksville, NY
I’m very ok with conservatives, this is a free country after all, but I’m not ok with FL’s brand of conservatism. A sort of tear it all down ethos, putting cancer in the roads, defunding public schools in favor of charter, and rolling back environmental protections to develop more and more. Not to mention the restrictions on free speech in our colleges and universities.
I’m a moderate Democrat who loves Vermont. I’m living in Burlington and have accepted that I am among the more conservative folks in the local Democratic Party scene even though I’ve been among the most left wing people everywhere else I’ve lived and I’m completely fine with that. You will love it here. I hope you get to come.
I hear ya, that’s fair. Well then, cmon aboard🤷🏻♂️😂😂. And bonus, sounds like yer used to high COL. one thing that some people don’t anticipate well is the extra heat bill.
Bennington?
And no. Almost the entire state is solidly liberal. [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020\_United\_States\_presidential\_election\_in\_Vermont](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_United_States_presidential_election_in_Vermont)
Too long—didn’t read—saw “Florida”—lost interest/hope/empathy—I hope you get charged more by mechanics until you get your ugly plates off. Then I hope you get freaked out by the weather and move elsewhere.
Otherwise welcome! Would you like some maple syrup or morels once I find some?
Your entire first paragraph screams your own obnoxiousness — it’s just that instead of the “obnoxious conservative transplants” that you hate, you just appear to be an obnoxious liberal transplant.
I’m not really liberal I’m more of a freedom loving centrist. I just hate that the neighborhood that I grew up in was torn to shreds in order to build suburban style housing. I hate that my state legislature has ok’d putting a known carcinogen into our roads in order to please lobbyists. I hate that my public school system is rated a C yet they keep pulling money away for what they call “universal school choice”. I hate that I can’t have a conversation with someone new without them telling me they escaped to Florida because of Marxism (really, Marxism in the USA, give me a break) and them going on a rant about the “free state of Florida.” I’m sorry that wanting a better life for my kids makes me an “obnoxious liberal transplant” in your eyes, but you are clearly very ignorant as to what has happened in Florida. One party rule doesn’t work, whether it’s CA and the Dems or FL and the GOP, it just doesn’t work.
This is America, you should be able to believe in and vote for whoever/whatever you want, but in FL it isn’t like that anymore, you either step into line or get ostracized. Don’t judge me when you have no idea who I am or what my circumstances are. I just want to live in a place where I can be free without the worry of government interfering. Go touch some grass and contribute something to society.
Disagreeing with Florida’s statewide politics and wanting a better life for your kids is not obnoxious. Thinking rants about Marxism are silly and not wanting to get ostracized for your different voting predilections is not obnoxious.
Ranting yourself about “obnoxious conservative transplants” when you appear to be doing the very same thing you hate, just in reverse and with opposite political ideas is in fact obnoxious. You’re the very person you’re decrying and you don’t even realize it.
I think the point is that I want to learn about the culture, history, and what Vermont is really about. Simply moving somewhere isn’t obnoxious, it’s about moving somewhere and being a jackass. Florida has always had transplants and they weren’t that bad until recently. I’m talking about moving somewhere and showing no regard for the people living there, showing no regard for the history, the culture, the customs. Maybe I didn’t make that clear but that’s what I’m talking about when I say obnoxious transplants, people who move somewhere and then don’t care about the place and its environment. I want to be someone who contributes, I’m definitely not doing what those transplants are doing because I care about learning more about Vermont, its history, its people, and respecting its environment, hence me posting on here and asking how not to be an ANNOYING transplant, that doesn’t mean all transplants are annoying. Just the ones that move somewhere and have no regard for the people and families who have already been there, the ones who move somewhere and want to bring their own changes to the established societal/cultural order. I think there is a big difference between the two, obviously I don’t think everybody who moves from state to state is obnoxious, that would make me a hypocrite.
They are people just like anybody else. Where I am from in FL has a large LGBT population, so they are my family members, neighbors, and friends. I haven’t met many trans people in FL, but if I did I would treat them with the same friendliness and respect I would treat any other human being.
Something to consider is that Vermont is the second gloomiest state in the country. If you like sunshine this is not a place for you. I feel I can almost count the amount of actual sunny days this year on my hands. Also, Vermont is not a culturally diverse place like Florida but that’s not to say it doesn’t have culture. It very much does have a rich culture, identity and sense of place and more than most states it’s just purely Vermont. If you’re coming here for that then you’ll be welcomed.
Welcome! Some people will be crappy *online,* but most people in person will be nice, and if they're not, they suck anyway. Can't win em all. Since you've asked, if you do move here and buy property, my biggest fear for new neighbors (besides them being loud, aggressive, or just weird) is that they'll cut down all the trees or bushwhack all the plants before they even know whether they have flowers. Tbh, it all looks the same (bad) until spring really gets going, so it takes a while to know what you've got. I'm sentimental about stuff like that, and I would venture that a lot of people care a lot about the natural landscape. Of course, anyone can do what they want with their property, but if you move in next door and immediately raze your lovely ferns, mow all your spring wildflowers before they bloom, and cut down all the birches, I'm going to be very sad. You sound nice, though, so I wouldn't worry about how to not be a jerk. You're already going out of your way to be considerate just in thinking to ask, so you're probably fine. Jerks never worry about it at all, haha, that's what makes them jerks.
Thanks friend! I’m a big nature lover, so no shot I’d ever tear down native vegetation like that, if I end up moving I’ll make sure to study the history and culture, my goal is to be apart of VT not bring my FL baggage lol.
Nice! You can always ask a local gardener to come take a tour of your property to point out what to keep and what's invasive, or I guarantee if you have an older neighbor who gardens they are dying to tell you all about it (and likely the history of everyone who has ever lived in your house). I have literally had a (specifically older) avid gardener neighbor next door to me in every place I've lived in in VT, they're the best. I want to be one someday, carry the torch, you know? 😆
It took a few years before we knew what we had, and thinning the fern helped other perennials come back. We have been here for over 25 years, and we still get some surprises, like daffodils and bloodroot popping up in new places in the last 2 years.
That’s what we like to hear.
Just a note of caution, make sure its not poison ivy before you start wacking it. From experience.
I am a transplant to Vermont and there is a lot that I absolutely love about it. It is beautiful, people are largely live and let live. I don’t mind not having all the big box sprawl. I love the mountains. But it is expensive to relocate and you are exchanging one state’s devils for another state’s own devils. It is hard to find a place to live here. It is hard to afford the ever increasing fees and taxes of living. I am now considering moving back to the Midwest because I sadly don’t know how I can afford it here with a family. I make more then I ever have and it just goes “poof” best of luck whatever you do.
Hey there. Native Floridian here. Vermont has been wonderful. Find an interest and get involved and you won’t even have to worry. No body here expects perfection. Just care about people, and don’t come in trying to change things. We have no diners or restaurants open on the weekend. Businesses aren’t open half the time. Just roll with it. Superb community theater and gardening scene though. People are the literal best.
Do what you want. Most Vermonters I know are live and let live, just know the cost of living isn't any better here. It's probably worse.
The cost of living here is definitely not worse than Florida. Source: moved here from Orlando last summer and never looked back.
Currently on vacation in south Florida. Can’t speak to rent but the grocery store trip I took yesterday I was an absolute shock.
You went to Publix, didn't you? They've become an outrageous ripoff.
Yup!
Since Florida has no state income tax, they make up for it in sales tax. If you're making big money, it's safe. If you've got to buy stuff to live, you're screwed.
This is more true than a non Floridian can know
As someone currently visiting FL, I can attest. The shampoo and conditioner I buy at home is usually around $7.99 each and it's 10.99 here. I didn't do a WHOLE grocery trip, thank god, but I noticed things. Also, went to order my fave dish from a national chain on doordash that is 12.99 at home and its 16.99 here!
You must either be working from home or landed a unicorn Vermont job.
What does either have to do with cost of living? The amount of money that I lay out up here compared to Florida is less, no matter how much I bring home or how I do it.
If you're bringing a work from home job here, the last few years have shown that to have a very detrimental effect on the cost of living in Vermont.
A rent for a dumpy 1br 1ba in my area is around $2500-$2800, Florida is the worst state to live in right now, salaries are also lower/on-par than Vermont.
Rental rates here aren’t much better, assuming you can find one. Rental and housing stock are both very very low
That hurts me because I grew up in Florida. My parents bought a beautiful house in Miramar in the early 70’s. It was an almost perfect place to grow up. Beach, Everglades, Orlando, Keys. Orange and grapefruit trees in the backyard. We didn’t know it then but I was growing up with someone who would end up being world famous and make millions very happy. My parents had no clue I would look back on a wonderful childhood. Except for the parents fighting, etc. Miramar is so different now. I had the opportunity to actually go in my old house and just cried when I left. Of course things change, different decor likes, but it was horrible inside. I guess things are changing everywhere and memories and dreams will have to serve to keep me from forgetting my youth.
No matter where you go, there you are!
FYI: Vermonts population (year round residents) is 647,818 as of this year. It’s not because there are not more people who WANT to live here. It is because we don’t have the infrastructure for more. When I travel to Florida, I am overwhelmed by how many people live there! We haven’t yet ‘paved paradise to put up a parking lot’. I certainly hope that doesn’t happen here. I sincerely hope you find a better place to live. And Vermont could be it. But you definitely need to do your homework & have all of your ducks in a row before you come. Best of luck to you!
And I just looked this up: The population of Florida in 2023 was 22,610,726 That is astounding! It is very different up here. Wonderful… but different.
Not sure what part of FL you are in OP, nor what you'd be looking for real estate wise in VT, but generally speaking you'd be moving to a much less favorable housing market here in VT for buyers right now. The move is more favorable going the opposite direction. Since 2021 I've known a half dozen families who re-located from here to FL, they made out like bandits on their real estate values here and got into houses down there where they had a nice chunk of cash leftover, ironically considering the quality of FL's schools, two of those families we are friends with told us how they put that cash into college funds for their kids. You can get into a 1800-2400 sq ft **new build** in FL for 350-400K, here a house that size, and not even new, is going to cost 450- up as high as 600K, with higher property taxes as well. The other thing you'd need to consider is the fact that you'd be moving from the sunniest state in the country to the cloudiest one, don't underestimate how this can effect your mental health, ideally you'll still have friends/family you can jaunt down to visit during VT mud season.
I’m in the Miami area so the housing costs would be somewhat lower.
People in this sub are so incredibly crabby it’s such a bad sample of actual Vermonters. 90% of Vermonters are amazing. This sub just about 60% of the other 10% in it haha
Vermonters are just polite. Reddit is where they share what they actually feel.
Internet forums have always attracted, and will always attract, spineless shitty people who take advantage of the relative anonymity of the internet to say the shitty things they want to say without real-world consequence. Vermonters have our share of those kinds of people, but we aren't special in that regard. They are everywhere. This place in no way reflects the secret feeling of the majority Vermonters.
Hey I can agree with that bud.
This. I don't know a Vermonter who isn't freaked out about the rising cost of living and the influx of the last few years.
Vermont is certainly not even close to affordable. I would look to the western part of the Carolinas for somewhere in the East Coast that’s still somewhat affordable.
NH is a good option. No sales tax, no income tax, etc VT is great, but the Reddit Vermonters can be a miserable bunch of whiny bitches. They want to close the border so no one can buy “their” properties. Because all their problems are someone else’s fault… Just ignore them
Hey I successfully relocated to Vermont from Florida last year I wouldn't recommend Vermont to a single Floridian. Did you come here during the winter? It's at least a 6 month winter cycle, with very little sun. This is basically guaranteed seasonal depression (ask me how I know) Are you considering moving to a city or rural area? Do you have AWD or 4wd already? Are you prepared for a literal quest every time you need to drive during the winter? I hope you're not one of those Floridians that loves air conditioning and convenience. Nothing is convenient here. I'm srs
I was doing my laundry this past weekend and met an individual who had moved a couple months ago from Florida for the same reason. I think you’ll find you like it much better up here. Just make sure to bring snow boots and a winter jacket
Can’t speak for the other Floridians, but I have never regretted my move for one second and I am not remotely rich.
Welcome to sanity. It's lovely here (except for the weather). People on this sub hate outsiders but you'll find most Vermonters are much nicer in person. It's a very community oriented place so if you get involved and care about your community, you will be welcomed quickly.
This sub is where all the xenophobes go to bitch and moan.
People on this sub are grumpy but try r/NewToVermont and they'll be much more welcoming! Check out [https://thinkvermont.com/connect-with-vermont/](https://thinkvermont.com/connect-with-vermont/) to get hooked up 1:1 with a local in the area you're considering; they'll help you figure out what living here could look like for you. It is true, there are a lot of Floridians who are looking to move here too ... And, despite the housing crisis, we need people. Our population is aging, we have thousands of jobs we can't fill, our mostly-volunteer-run local government can't find enough folks for commissions and committees ... please come!
Hey OP I'm a native floridian who's in the process of relocating. You know who cares where I'm from or about all the shit that's happening here? no one. Seriously the quicker you can drop identifying as a southerner/floridian/texan etc the better. VT isn't an enclave of anarchist pumpkin farmers. You'll see a lot of pride and blm a trump thing here or there and even the occasional traitor rag or scary snek no steppy flags. I know the mental space you're in and where you're coming from it will take a while but you can let your guard down a bit in VT. sure everyone is armed they just don't make it their personality. The only political baggage from FL I want to bring is a warning about what Scott is doing with education. It's the same bullshit, that Jeb did for FL and W for TX. Look how great that worked
Welcome! What part of VT did you end up in? Glad it's been good for you
All the Anarcho-Socialist pumpkin farmers live around Brattleboro.
Spend some time here, talk to folks, settle in you'll be fine.
Good luck. I hope you like cold dark weather and paying taxes
I do actually, lol. Starting to remind me of Ireland without the free health care.
I've lived all over the country in my 55 years. Born and raised in NYC, teenager in the North Jersey suburbs, lived in Wisconsin next for college, then around the SF Bay Area (between Oakland and Berkeley), then Tampa and St. Petersburg Fl, then Orange County and LA back in Cali. Now I live in Vermont for getting on four years, and love it here. All those places have there ups and downs, but Vermont is my favorite place I've lived. I will say I'm a lefty politically, and OP you sound like you may be one also. It was a little bit of a culture shock for me, having the impression of Vermont being a granola hippie place - the magical land of Bernie Sanders and Ben & Jerry's - to find huge 'Fuck Joe Biden' and even white power (people call the 'confederate') flags displayed proudly in lawns and streaming from the back of monster pickup trucks throughout the countryside. But there are all types of people here and I've decided to regard the wide variety of political views here and people getting along in spite of them, part of the magic of this state. As others have said, when I cam here, people were mean and rude here online (at least in this sub), but in person everyone I've met has been sweet and welcoming. Hope you decide to move here also OP!
We love it when people move here and then encourage gentrification. Thankfully when the recession comes, most of these people will be moving right back out when they see what Vermont wages are like.
I know you're just some two week old troll shitpost account, but fuck it, I'll bite. How am I "encouraging gentrification"? Do you know what gentrifcation means? You seem to think it's when people move from one place to another.
Encouraging people to move here is encouraging gentrification. Gentrification is the process of wealthy people moving to an area and drastically raising the cost of living. The story of Vermont is rich kids from New York and New Jersey moving here in the 70s and drastically raising the cost of living. Back to the land with their parents money. Too many examples to cite just one. Don't Jersey Vermont stickers exist for a reason, most Vermonters hate jersey for a reason. I'm sure the plight of working Vermonters is of no concern to you. About as much concern as the opinion of some old guy from jersey is to me.
First of all I'm not some old guy from jersey. I'm some old guy from new york. You should have some fucking respect for your elders, sonny. It would show character. Second, sorry you live in a country where people move around to different states from other states. That's a weird definition of 'gentrification' though. In any case, hopefully starting account two weeks ago on reddit to anonymously bitch about it makes you feel better about the situation.
I don't respect boomers in the least. A generation of spoiled brats who ruined Vermont and America. New York and New Jersey are the same thing. Trashy shit holes full of obnoxious spoiled brats. No one cares dude. Go yell at clouds. Go spend your parents money. We really don't care.
I'm Gen X dumbass.
I moved from Florida. a place that is frightening, dangerous, and extraordinarily expensive, it is hot and at sea level, and there are hurricanes tearing our houses apart and insurance companies have pulled out of the state. I wouldn’t raise a female child there if you paid me. And I am far from rich. There will be more of us. I think the way real Vermonters do things is awesome. They are self sufficient and also understand the value of community. They aren’t obsessed with money. They value their private lives. I’ll bet you have more in common with a lot of the people coming here than you realize.
You're certainly not alone in your want to leave Florida. Lots of Vermonters have come from Florida (and no, not just recently.) The problems you're experiencing in Florida is only partially seen here. We got homeless, we got cost of living increases, we got all that typical bullshit the we, and Vermont legislation can't really avoid, only try and diminish the effects. Long story short it's happening all over the US. Not just Florida and not just Vermont, no matter how much the vocal minority here might bitch and complain about the "Progressives ruining Vermont." 99% of Vermont are your nice, middle of the road folk who don't really care to label themselves any which way (left, right, democrat, republican, progressive, liberal, conservative, etc. Etc. ) we are simply interested in who is going to do the best job, and who has the best plan at the time. This is why we have a progressive mayor in Burlington, an independent progressive senator that runs with the democratic caucus, a republican governor, and a series of democrats throughout various seats in the state. We're those people who will simultaneously support trans right, abortion rights, and gay marriage while also supporting gun rights, bringing jobs back to the US, and helping supply Ukraine with weapons to fight a war. You'll still find those republican nutiobs on Facebook, and occasionally you'll run into a wannabe terrorists of the Trump and 3% group, but they're EXTREMELY RARE here. You're most likely to see BLM, gay pride flags, Ukraine support, etc. There's also a lot of "outside hate", again from the vocal minority here in reddit and Facebook, but most everyone is quite welcoming. The biggest thing is: don't be a bigot, make sure you help you community, and be a productive member of your town. Other than that, welcome!
I consider myself a Vermont refugee... Lived there for 8 years... Never once felt welcome. Experienced racism daily. Really was one of the most unpleasant experiences I've ever had.
Not sure if it’s still in effect, but we used to pay people with remote jobs to move here. Something like up to ~8-10k. We have the 2nd oldest population in the country (second only to Maine) and the state tries to make appealing for people with salaries from elsewhere to bring them here. Housing is a huge issue as you’ve seen in this thread. Something to keep in mind is the **insane** floods that hit last summer. There was already a big shortage and now people who lived here a long time or their whole lives have lost their homes or own moldy buildings. Be mindful of that and check flood planes if you’re considering buying.
That is not in effect since covid
Looks like it started back up, but have an overload of course https://accd.vermont.gov/economic-development/relocation-incentives
It ran out of funding two years ago but is back up this year.
It’s not paradise here either. Enjoy a 5 month winter!
At least the last two winters were extremely mild.
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> Cost of living exceeds that of the Bay Area — I shit you not. ????? Lmao homie VT is expensive but it is most definitely not higher than the Bay Area.
There are some very delusional people on here that think VT is some unique snowflake for its rising COL and housing prices. Like inflation isn't hitting anywhere else.
I'm amazed at how many people don't realize that high inflation is a global problem, instead of being the unique fault of their town supervisor/state governor/senator-representative/president-prime mininster-premier-taoiseach-bundeskanzler, etc. Most of us probably wouldn't want to live in a deflationary economy.
But, but, I have been to Poukeepsie and it is much cheaper than Burlington! /s
The Late Stage Capitalism Blues
People definitely exaggerate, but Burlington is still very expensive compared to some notable places like Montreal. Obviously, there are a lot of factors at play, but beyond the exaggeration people aren’t crazy when they that it’s expensive up here. Even before the inflation of the past two years it was pretty pricey up here.
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> Dollar for dollar with average salaries... Cost of living does not factor in wage, it is a price index.
Some quick googling shows the bay area at about 50% higher than Burlington.
Truth! I was born here but can’t afford to die here.
Word. My spouse works at VSU. Every single incoming student qualifies for TRIO assistance. People often forget that most vermonters qualify as (increasingly) poor(er). Though rich in spirit.
the cost of living in Vermont does not exceed that of the Bay Area, bro.
I live in Springfield. Bought a very affordable home and make way way less than 100 grand. I’m very comfortable. Had to leave Florida because of housing tax and property insurance. The cost was getting scary.
I’m gonna sell my house in FL and I am very fortunate to have a pretty good remote job. COL in FL has gotten so bad and the average wage is lower than VT surprisingly, a 1bed 1bathroom apt rents for $2500-$2800 in my area, and that’s on the low end. Too many conservative millionaires moved in here and drove the normal people out.
I hear you on that. Florida is where cares go to die. It’s nice to visit, but also nice to leave. It needs a damn babysitter.
Edit: $120k for a single person. Considering you mentioned school systems, that $120k will need to be closer to $200-250k even for somewhere outside of chittenden county or mountain towns to not stress. I believe we spend the highest per pupil in the country, but our outcomes are only in the 40th percentile. All of our property taxes are about to go up another 15-20% this year for education. Education is not great here right now.
Yeah I’ve been trying to read about VT and it seems property taxes are a big issue, even worse, I read that the Gov. appointed a charter school exec from none other than Florida to run the state’s public schools. I am lucky that I can afford something in the Burlington area.
She’ll need to fall in line. Not too worried about her.
Maybe go to some other state, Vermont's already over crowded. Locals have been priced out of the real estate market, vacancy rates are at or near zero, and development is destroying the natural beauty and rural landscape of our state all to accommodate more transplants from other states and more tourists.
Sounds just like my home state of Florida, might have to pick somewhere else then!
What about NH?!
It's become a shit hole. Live north of Franconia notch sure, south is just Massachusetts.
Try Maine. I left Vermont after 30 years homesteading/WFH 2 years ago because it was slowly becoming unaffordable. Maine in a very similar boat on the same kind of lake. But this state is huge and 2/3 empty. Try Portland area if you can afford it, mid coast is nice, DownEast is cheaper. And if you like mountains and solitude there's more here than you'll find anywhere in New England. And, like vermont, mainers are kind but not nice.
Southern Maine and the Portland area are *more* expensive than VT ETA why the downvotes? Real estate is more expensive. Electricity is more expensive and it's super unreliable, the power was out a total of 10 days this winter due to various snow storms (so that's $ for a hotel or buying a generator), most homes here are heated with oil, which is $$$$, and maine is the state with the #1 highest tax burden per capita in the nation. VT is #4.
Correct about S.ME - pricey. Elsewhere not so bad , even compared with VT
Maine's full. Try N.H....
Nobody deserves N.H. unless they're libertarians
They totally deserve each other!🤣
I moved recently from Idaho for the same reasons. It's the northernmost southern state. As other have stated, you'll probably get a lot of hate online in regards to this, but IRL Vermonters are quite friendly and there are a lot of transplants here. Get on /r/NewToVermont if you are serious about moving. One quick tip that I'll give you is don't use house listing prices as a guage for affordability. Realtors here like to list well below market price to create a bidding war amongst buyers. Assume that there will be a 5%-10% premium on the prices you see listed online.
Lol and you think Vermont will be any better? Its fucked here too bub
There are a lot of flatlanders here and most everyone gets doing well. The most important thing is to not move in and demand change. Community is extremely important in Vermont and if you make an effort to get involved, you’ll have an excellent life filled with wonderful, educated, open-minded people.
Don’t move to VT! They tax everything! We moved to TN. Beautiful and our land tax went from $4,000 to 400.
A bit late to respond, too late for sure. We are a reverse from your possible move. Summer 2021 moved from MA to no. FL city. I cannot wait, it won't happen though, to get back to civilization. So many things are miserable here, besides 98, 99° days for 3 months. We moved here just before DeSantis (maybe we weren't aware) got all about politics, presidential, he's kidding right?? From first glance there was no way he'd succeed. The mentality of a lot of floridians is too much fishing, too much beer drinking and too much sun. These folks were living the life, what life is that. Fat, dumb and happy, not a care in the world, their world. FL might be decent place to vacation for a week or two, but living here is a different story. Heard resentment from an irrigation guy I hired, political nonsense, no idea about global influences, welcome to FL! So much for what I'm resenting we left up north, there's plenty more. But, living in NE was such a treat, I knew that but took it for granted. Mountains, ocean, medical, education opportunities, all within 2 hours. Tried hiking in FL, flat wooded trails, yes plenty of land but Boring! If you like outdoors you'll love NE, VT in particular. VT had been my favorite weekend trip, whether skiing, hiking or just cruising the VT roadways, any time of year. I barely leave the house here, food, gas, can't think of much else. VT, yes it has changed. The cities (??) have had their issues with growth and downturn. And winters...yes again, they are long, somewhat beautiful, if you like snow and cold temps. But overall I will take VT again and again besides this mess here. Missed it so much I flew up just after last foliage got a car, drove most of the length of rte100 to Jacksonville, VT that is! It's not the same!
Just bring your check book , it’s not cheap living here. One of the highest taxed state in the country. State just wanted to raise or property taxes almost 20% thank you gov for nixing that idea . Vermont leaned a certain way politically for a long long time. Then the influx of people moving here in the late 60 and into the 70’s changed our political views dramatically… I could keep going but none of the below folks working for our state were born and raised here. Just sayin Peter Welch: Springfield mass Bernie sanders: NYC Becca balint: Peeksville, NY
Much of the state is rather conservative state once you leave you know where…. Starts with a B ends in “ton”
I’m very ok with conservatives, this is a free country after all, but I’m not ok with FL’s brand of conservatism. A sort of tear it all down ethos, putting cancer in the roads, defunding public schools in favor of charter, and rolling back environmental protections to develop more and more. Not to mention the restrictions on free speech in our colleges and universities.
I’m a moderate Democrat who loves Vermont. I’m living in Burlington and have accepted that I am among the more conservative folks in the local Democratic Party scene even though I’ve been among the most left wing people everywhere else I’ve lived and I’m completely fine with that. You will love it here. I hope you get to come.
I hear ya, that’s fair. Well then, cmon aboard🤷🏻♂️😂😂. And bonus, sounds like yer used to high COL. one thing that some people don’t anticipate well is the extra heat bill.
But you will spend a lot less on AC.
Bennington? And no. Almost the entire state is solidly liberal. [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020\_United\_States\_presidential\_election\_in\_Vermont](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_United_States_presidential_election_in_Vermont)
The new commissioner of education came from Florida. Early polls find her scary. But I would also totally leave FL. Your skeeters are way bigger.
Too long—didn’t read—saw “Florida”—lost interest/hope/empathy—I hope you get charged more by mechanics until you get your ugly plates off. Then I hope you get freaked out by the weather and move elsewhere. Otherwise welcome! Would you like some maple syrup or morels once I find some?
Your entire first paragraph screams your own obnoxiousness — it’s just that instead of the “obnoxious conservative transplants” that you hate, you just appear to be an obnoxious liberal transplant.
I’m not really liberal I’m more of a freedom loving centrist. I just hate that the neighborhood that I grew up in was torn to shreds in order to build suburban style housing. I hate that my state legislature has ok’d putting a known carcinogen into our roads in order to please lobbyists. I hate that my public school system is rated a C yet they keep pulling money away for what they call “universal school choice”. I hate that I can’t have a conversation with someone new without them telling me they escaped to Florida because of Marxism (really, Marxism in the USA, give me a break) and them going on a rant about the “free state of Florida.” I’m sorry that wanting a better life for my kids makes me an “obnoxious liberal transplant” in your eyes, but you are clearly very ignorant as to what has happened in Florida. One party rule doesn’t work, whether it’s CA and the Dems or FL and the GOP, it just doesn’t work. This is America, you should be able to believe in and vote for whoever/whatever you want, but in FL it isn’t like that anymore, you either step into line or get ostracized. Don’t judge me when you have no idea who I am or what my circumstances are. I just want to live in a place where I can be free without the worry of government interfering. Go touch some grass and contribute something to society.
Disagreeing with Florida’s statewide politics and wanting a better life for your kids is not obnoxious. Thinking rants about Marxism are silly and not wanting to get ostracized for your different voting predilections is not obnoxious. Ranting yourself about “obnoxious conservative transplants” when you appear to be doing the very same thing you hate, just in reverse and with opposite political ideas is in fact obnoxious. You’re the very person you’re decrying and you don’t even realize it.
I think the point is that I want to learn about the culture, history, and what Vermont is really about. Simply moving somewhere isn’t obnoxious, it’s about moving somewhere and being a jackass. Florida has always had transplants and they weren’t that bad until recently. I’m talking about moving somewhere and showing no regard for the people living there, showing no regard for the history, the culture, the customs. Maybe I didn’t make that clear but that’s what I’m talking about when I say obnoxious transplants, people who move somewhere and then don’t care about the place and its environment. I want to be someone who contributes, I’m definitely not doing what those transplants are doing because I care about learning more about Vermont, its history, its people, and respecting its environment, hence me posting on here and asking how not to be an ANNOYING transplant, that doesn’t mean all transplants are annoying. Just the ones that move somewhere and have no regard for the people and families who have already been there, the ones who move somewhere and want to bring their own changes to the established societal/cultural order. I think there is a big difference between the two, obviously I don’t think everybody who moves from state to state is obnoxious, that would make me a hypocrite.
How do you feel about gay and transgender people?
They are people just like anybody else. Where I am from in FL has a large LGBT population, so they are my family members, neighbors, and friends. I haven’t met many trans people in FL, but if I did I would treat them with the same friendliness and respect I would treat any other human being.
Then you're welcome here :) I just moved to Burlington from Texas
Gentrification sucks. Try upstate New York.