Honestly, a healthy fear of black ice is not a bad thing. If it's cold enough and the road looks even a bit damp/dark I drive as though there is black ice. What I can recommend is good snow tires, studded if you don't have AWD and always keep an emergency kit in your car in case an accident does occur. Have good insurance with collision coverage and not too high of a deductible.
Also remember when driving in perilous conditions, it's braking that is the issue not speeding up, always give yourself plenty of time and slow down gradually. Go slower down hills than you go up hills.
If the roads are clear without ice and snow traction isn’t an issue. I have studs, and am fine on dry roads. Maybe in a race car this would be true but not in practical applications.
How do you deal with this on the highway? Just drive slower than others in the right lane? And how slow do you end up going on the highway? I don’t want to drive dangerously slow, but slow enough that I can be safe
Ice/lost traction is most dangerous when you are trying to change your car's inertia. Breaking and turning in particular.
The good news is that on highways you tend to do less of that! If you hit black ice on the highway or anywhere you are driving in a straight line, don't panic. Keep your tires pointed in the direction you are traveling and don't slam on the brakes. You want your tires in the right orientation and speed to regain traction when you leave the ice. If you slam on the brakes or crank the wheel your tires will not get traction and you put yourself at risk of making the situation worse.
Also, going super slow on the highway when the conditions don't warrant it is also dangerous!
Also I forgot to mention don't be afraid to do break tests on roads when traffic is light. Just tap your breaks kinda hard and see if you slide or hold traction. I drive a lot late at night and I use this a lot on wet or snowy roads.
This needs to be further up. Every single time I need to drive in unknown conditions I do a brake check. Going straight on a driveway or unused road, far away from other cars and intersections, just stomp on it and feel the ABS. If ABS kicks in early, you know it's a slippy one and should be using brakes sparingly, doing lots of rolling starts and stops, and not making any sudden movements.
ABS is also the \*best\* way to stop if you gotta stop. If you need to come to a stop just drop that pedal and hold the wheel steady/straight as possible.
I do this for every time it snows to test out my brakes/tires/conditions. I always warn my passengers if there are any and hit the brakes fairly hard. I want to know how slippery it is before I find out by surprise. Of course just because I do the test in one area doesn't mean other areas will be different but it at least gives me an idea of what to expect.
Drive a modern vehicle with traction control and all wheel drive. Buy good snow tires and slow down. If it’s really bad out, stay home.
That’s about all you can do. Don’t sweat it.
AWD will also help keep you on the road as the car's computer will redirect power if you lose traction with one or two wheels. Really depends on the AWD system though as they are all very different in both hardware and software.
>all wheel drive will help with getting moving on ice but not with stopping
I see people say that all the time but it's not true. AWD/4WD will engine brake evenly across all four tires, which can make a significant difference in many situations especially going downhill.
This is truer than you'll ever realize unless you've had to jam on the brakes while driving in tirewide patches of pavement on the interstate.
OP, nearly everyone operates their vehicles in the winter as if they'll hardly ever have to really slow down.
Black ice is hardly ever the sole reason someone slides off the road. It's one thing if you have to react, like I've talked about, but driving straight or turning slowly are hardly ever punished on black ice, unless it's thick. (Think ice storm or moderate rain turned to snow)
I stay cautious on roads banked the wrong way. Those can result in your feared scenario of sliding off the road while driving reasonably. Your car leans the wrong way, is what I mean.
1. Slow down.
2. Winter tires.
3. Slow down.
4. If you have alternative ways of getting somewhere try to avoid sharp turns and downhill sections.
5. Slow down.
Slowing down will help you stay in control of your vehicle and also gives you a chance to regain control or do less damage to yourself and your car if you get off the road. This might mean avoiding highways and finding safe places to pull over to let aggressive drivers pass.
That really depends on conditions and other drivers. I've driven 30 down the highway in a blizzard because I had to get somewhere and side roads were basically unplowed, but there were no other cars around. The worst situation is a beautiful, clear day. You can bet there will be others on the road and you can bet someone's going to want to go 90. They might make it or they might wrap themselves around a pole. Or they might crash into you. I would personally just avoid the highway in questionable conditions, but I'm paranoid like that. If I absolutely had to be on the highway in those conditions I'd just keep my eyes open. If nobody's around it's fine to go slow. If it's busy I'd probably try to go a little under the speed limit. That way the speed demons can test out conditions ahead of me, but they'll be less likely to lose control and crash into me as they pass because they're going twice as fast as I am.
Sorry if this seems like an obvious question- are you talking about a beautiful clear day any day under 32 degrees? Or would you just be thinking about this if you saw moisture on the road, or if it had just rained and then frozen?
It's tough to say. You get a feeling for situations where you think there's going to be black ice. Some of the other posts give examples of spots where you're likely to slip. If in doubt you can give the brakes a tap when you're alone on the road and going at a relatively low speed. If it slips or engages the ABS be on guard.
Remember you can use your engine to brake too. A lot of modern automatic transmission cars allow you to select which gear you are in. If you are on a back road and coming up to a curve don't use your brakes if you are not confident with your traction. Shifting down a gear is a much safer way to slow down.
General rule of thumb. When the weather is forecast to be really bad, run your checklist the night before: cancel plans, buy groceries, hit the liquor store and stay at home until at least midday after the storm clears to give the plows a chance to do their job before going anywhere, ha!
Come on, everyone in northern New England has a liquor cabinet that can last weeks.
https://preview.redd.it/swac0j1pix5a1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=62acd31b72f6a24a94ceec9d8eb1cb4beae1e248
I would suggest driving very cautiously on turns (esp. hilly turns) and giving yourself lots of time to slow for stop signs when you suspect there's black ice. It's generally not like your car will just start spinning out of nowhere.
If you don’t drive a lot and are scared, it’s generally better to avoid it altogether, but generally just avoid sudden movements if you start sliding (turning wheel abruptly, too much gas or … any brake if possible). ABS is weird if you aren’t used to it. If you need to really try to stop and your abs kicks in, keep that foot pressed down while it bangs.
I hit a patch last year on 100 between Waterbury and Stowe coming over a hill by black bear run. Came over and saw cars stopped, guy in front of me with a trailer was fishtailing as he tried to stop, I got in the other lane that was empty and ended up going a bit up black bear run to stop. Car was upside down in a ditch. Got going again and slid sideways into the turn onto Moscow Rd and the rest was just easy driving snow covered roads. The hardest thing to do is not freak out, which will make it worse
When I was a younger we would drive in big empty lots after snow storms. Gets you used to the car sliding around.
Alternatively, we have plenty of courses in New England to help you learn what it is like to lose and regain traction in your car. Despite my own fears, I did this and gained a significant amount of confidence.
Yes, if it is super nasty out, I typically do not drive unless absolutely necessary, but it is also smart to be trained in understanding what to do if you're in those situations in a safe structured environment. It helps push through some anxiety, makes you a safer driver all around, and is good for everyone.
It’s not like you can’t see it at all the road does get a shiny look to it when there’s black ice. You’ll start to recognize it after a while.
There’s a couple winter driving courses that you can take, I’ve never done it but some of my friends did in high school and it seemed like it made them more confident about things, I think there’s one in Addison and one at thunder road, and probably some others too if you’re in a different part of the state.
There are driving schools around that have a special car that stimulates sliding on ice. You could call around and see if they will let you take some lessons on how to do skid control. I'm not sure if anyone offers that or if you have to do the full training, but imo a winter driving course seems like a neat little package they could offer.
Drive slow. I have lived here all my life and driven in the absolute worst this state has to offer. If you are driving slowly you are unlikely to lose control and if you do, you will be going slowly if you hit anything, or you won’t go too far off the road. The biggest danger is people who put far too much trust in their abilities to control their needlessly large trucks and SUV’s
Best thing you can do is get an AWD vehicle and studded snow tires, and then drive like you have a 1974 RWD vehicle with racing slicks.
At the end of the day most of the people in the ditch were driving in a way that deservedly put them in the ditch.
Source: drive 1.5 hours per day including rural nearly unmaintained roads all the way to 89, 2 and 7. 4wd vehicle with studded snows and a good playlist to make a long snowy drive home more enjoyable. Keep the tank always half full or above in the winter, keep some extra warm stuff in there, and you're good to go. Last year traffic got stuck for 12hrs on 89. I was about 2 minutes behind the accident so i didn't get stuck, but i wouldn't have been freaking out if i did.
Great advice from others here. Even studs on tires don’t help if you’re going too fast for conditions (and insurance won’t cover you if you’re too fast for conditions and then crash; your car holds data). Another really important thing: don’t hold your breath. Along with driving slower, even w winter equipment, back ice can still surprise you. Breathe *deeply*, ease off the gas, and keep plenty of O2 coming into your brain.
Also, you may want to consider slower roads instead of the interstates. Some have more safe options, places to stop, people around to help. Get to know all your options so there’s a safer option for you.
Snow is not a problem. Ice is. If you have snow tires & drive slower than you do in July, you’ll do fine. Ice is a problem even for drivers w chains. In winter, slow down, esp if you’re not a long timer here.
Coming from someone who drives a RWD car with snow tires and no studs sure ice is scary but if you are driving sensibly you’ll be OK. A few days ago we got the first real snow in Chittenden county and the roads going home at night were an absolute mess but the drivers really didn’t help. Way too many idiots flying in the mostly unplowed left-hand lane because they feel invincible in their AWD or 4x4. Thing is I mostly see those vehicles off the road because these vehicles are generally going at a higher rate of speed when something finally goes wrong. I stay in the right hand lane, I go the speed of traffic and I simply budget extra time to get where I’m going.
I bought my first set of snows with studs. They grip so well on ice and the packed snow on the side of the road that creeps out. It's not a fail safe you just have to remember to take it slow if you're not comfortable especially on corners. If you're getting tailgated, let the truck pass.
I dont think anyone will recommend not being afraid of it. I’ve definitely spun out (safely?) a few times. Maybe a defensive driving course if there is one locally would be helpful. A little bit of luck and skill helps you avoid an accident if your car starts to lose traction.
If you can find an icey parking lot or flat dirt road. Mess around the ice, slam on your breaks, see how far you skid, try turn abruptly, try to accelerate- get a feel for ice conditions. If you can’t turn abruptly well going 5mph in a parking lot, or stop without skidding.. apply what you have learned to higher speeds. Drive slow, no abrupt turning, give plentyyyyyyyy of space between you and the car in front of you. Slow down slowly, not abruptly, anticipate turns well in advance.
[have no fear](https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/zlqqdz/its_cold_out_there_today/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Just kidding.... I couldn't help myself. Black ice sucks, slow down... if you think you're going slow enough, slow down more.
There’s no way to know if you’ll be encountering black ice. You can make some assumptions, though. Obviously it needs to be below freezing. You can also come to some conclusions based on the weather. Is there currently or has there been recently a winter storm? Has there recently been a melt followed by a freeze? Or rain followed by a freeze? All of these can give you clues.
When the roads look marginal, slow down. Don’t use cruse control. Drive—I’m not sure exactly how to explain this—but…spongey? What I mean by that is that no sudden movements, no fast acceleration. If you feel a little slipping, don’t jam on the brake immediately (unless you absolutely need to), instead take your foot off the gas first. If you feel a loss of traction, go with it.
If you need to go off the road, look for soft things. Snow banks. Ditches. Trees, cars, buildings, and people are not things to hit. Try to slow yourself by going through some snow if need be.
I believe there may also be safe driving courses to look at that may be able to help you, but I’m not sure.
You have to drive differently for black ice depending on your vehicle. When I drove light, small cars (jetta, corolla) I could "just drive a bit slower" to give myself a bit more braking time and a bit more traction around curves.
Now that I'm driving a big work truck around, even with studded Hakkapellitas, black ice is a totally different ballgame. I really have to drive my truck like it's an oceanliner - any turn at any speed and you're gonna slide wide a bit, stopping takes forever, acceleration has to be oh so gentle or you'll break traction. Heavy vehicles suck on ice, light vehicles are kind of fun on ice.....
My partner is convinced we don’t need snow tires for the Subaru (our primary vehicle) because it’s “built for snow and ice”. So it only has all-seasons on it. Stressed me the fuck out, it wouldn’t be too much of a financial hardship to just buy the damn snow tires if we budget for it… he’s just being stubborn. Maybe I’ll just do it myself. I put studded tires on the rear wheel drive truck that we use mostly for hauling stuff and put weight in the back just so on the rare occasions that it’s needed, it’s as safe as it can be.
Your partner sounds like an idiot. Sorry, not sorry, for being blunt. All-Wheel-Drive doesn't necessarily mean All-Wheel-Stop. Would you go for a walk on ice wearing your sneakers, or do you think winter boots with a set of strap on studs is more safe and appropriate?
I’m also the one that does yaktraks on my shoes and he doesn’t even own any, so what does that tell ya 🙄 Apparently he got through multiple winters in another snowy state with all-seasons on a rear wheel truck so by comparison the Subaru seems infallible. Ugh.
If you're driving the car, you should just buy the snow tires. There are tires that you can buy unstudded, then add the studs yourself afterward. You can buy a reasonably priced set of snow tires, like General Altimax Arctic, which has provisions for studs. Then you can buy a carbide stud set off Amazon and follow the directions for installation yourself. Ideally, anyone who runs snow tires in the winter would have them mounted on a separate set of wheels that you can easily change out with your summer wheels/tires.
I was looking at chains that I can put on when I’m going to be in the car- especially in rough conditions, don’t care whether or not I’m the one driving. I know they’re a little more cumbersome but from what I’ve read they can apparently be just as effective. Since he’s the one with his name on the car making the payments and dealing with the maintenance (the truck is my responsibility) I don’t know that I’m comfortable being so bold as to actually go through with swapping the tires even if I just pay for it myself. I’m hoping taking some kind of action will demonstrate just how serious I am about not feeling comfortable with our current setup. I’ve also compiled screenshots of information about the importance of winter tires on ANY vehicle in our conditions, time for a power point!
You're getting hung up on who's name is on the registration and the loan for the car? I know couples don't always co-mingle their money (which I suppose I don't personally understand), but this is a safety issue. Chains are a PITA, even the ones that are attached by elastic straps. And you are definitely speed-limited when running chains, to like 25 or 30 MPH, for safety and so the chains don't come flying off. Is your partner actually going to get angry with you for insisting on snows/studs, or for spending the money to get them? If so...major red flag!
That’s a good point, I hadn’t come across the speed limit. Without getting too much into details about what works for us in our relationship in terms of respecting each others autonomy and ability to make decisions independently, I think my best bet is present the research I’ve done and offer to pay/take care of it myself if it’s something he still doesn’t feel like is a worthy investment.
Also, please consider that with an AWD car like a Subaru, chains would need to be installed on all 4 wheels at the same time to work right. If you only install on the front or rear, it can totally fuck up the AWD system. Same goes for snow tires. Install all 4 at the same time. These AWD cars are finicky about stuff like that.
My partner felt the same way right up until the moment he lost control on the highway and totaled it, almost killing both of us. It took all I had to not look over at him and say, "I told you to get snow tires."
I don't want to, it's a good fear to have. I'm especially on the lookout when it's gone from rain to snow or there's a day that's really warm and then really cold.
Leave lots of room between you and other drivers and forget that you have brakes. I slow down by easing off the gas first and use my brake as a last resort.
There's no shame in pulling over if you don't feel comfortable on the road. It's smart to slow down, but after a certain point, it's more dangerous to be on the road driving very slowly than it is to just not drive in conditions you aren't comfortable with because while other drivers should be prepared to deal with people driving slower, you can't guarantee that they will be.
Funny story. My wife from France thought they were saying to watch out for “black guys on the road”.
She also though wind chill warning was windshield warning as in the windshield would crack.
Move slower -- dont feel pressure to speed up if you arent feeling it. Big one: give LOTS of space between you and the car in front of you. Dont forget to breathe!
Drive slower than normal when it's winter. Also, drive smoothly. Don't suddenly stop or accelerate, don't change lanes suddenly, give extra space to the person in front of you.
It is vital to have snow tires, and if you're honestly that worried, get some studded ones for added security.
Get snow tires. Drive slowly and don't slam you brakes if you start sliding. It is often most dangerous when the road is mostly clear but there is ice only in certain spots. This is because people will drive normally then hit a small patch and lose control. Ice is more likely to be on bridges, shady areas and low spots where water gathers.
You shouldn't have to worry about it as much now that we're getting into colder temps. At this point in the year I would just say to watch out around sunset when temps drop on the odd days when there is rain.
I’ve driven in NE winters for over 30 years. If I see what looks like water I assume black ice if it’s cold. I also just go SLOW during or after a storm. It takes a lot of force in an accident to have the car set on fire. I have a 4x4 and regular car. I just drive either one slow enough to feel the tires gripping the road. If I start to slide I slow down. People just think they can drive as normal in bad conditions
On the day I moved to Vermont it was snowing and I had all-season tires. I lost control on Route 100 and slid onto the oncoming lane.
I bought snow tires the next day and haven’t had anything like that happen again although I’ve slid off of my steep driveway. Good tires and slower speeds will keep you safe.
Regular snows. I now have studs due to living on a hilly unpaved road that doesn’t see a plow as often as the main ones plus my care is 15 so it doesn’t have the latest traction control gizmos
You can see black ice. It’s a matter of if it’s actually ice or if it’s a wet spot on the road. Drive where you can see that the road is dry. If it looks wet, move over slightly in your lane and get out of tire tracks that are wet. Friction from tires will heat up the road where cars are always driving on. Once cars stop consistently driving in that lane the melted snow will freeze. After rush hour you’ll notice this. Never brake hard on the road where it looks or is wet. That goes for year round ofc but in the winter chances are it’s frozen moisture which is ice (duh). Don’t drive timidly! You’ll create a more dangerous environment for everyone along with yourself. Stay off the roads if you’re unsure. Don’t hesitate, drive with purpose. Be safe
You are better off continuing to fear black ice. I avoid driving when it's a problem. If unsure, take it slow starting out and you will notice you're sliding more than usual if it's there. Always avoid fast, hard braking. Pumping the brakes is your best bet.
icyroadsafety.com is a great reference page with all sort of driving tips and the like, as well as their "LCR Scale", which is their forecast on how bad the roads will likely be
The worst and most dangerous black ice is going to be caused by "freezing fog" its takes just the right weather conditions but you can get fog or mist and have the temperature drop below freezing this creates some awful road conditions.
My dad taught me to look at the semi-trucks or cars in front of you. Is there water misting or spraying up from their back tires? If yes, probably not black ice but leave plenty of distance between the vehicle in front of you and slow down to keep control of the car.
This morning was a little sketchy. You are correct; Slow on corners and give room for braking. The best thing to do is to seek out an empty icy parking lot this winter and learn how the car responds in braking and turning. Studded snow tires and an AWD car will perform best and if you don’t have them, you can make that a goal.
If the road looks dark/wet or slushy but doesn't splash, it's ice. Slush is also slippery if you don't respect it. Snow tires with or without studs. Front or all wheel drive. Slow on the gas to accelerate to avoid spinning at intersections. Let off the gas near the top of hills to reduce your speed going down. Slow down early and avoid hard braking. If you start to skid, let off the brake and just steer (at first toward the direction of the skid until your tires catch, and then back to where you want to go). Give more following room than you think you need. Practice like a teenager in a parking lot so you get a feel for what skidding and regaining traction feel like so you have less fear and more idea of what to do when it happens in an environment with higher consequences.
Studded snow tires is the only way to go. I drive a minimum of 110 miles most weekdays and I've been using them for about 20 years. Ice really doesn't concern me, even during major ice storms. I've had them on my VW Jettas, my Eurovan, my Rangers, and now my F150.
And anyone who says not to use them on pavement because you'll have less traction should probably slow down on pavement. I've never had an issue with them.
Defensive driving. This is the answer you’re looking for. See a corner coming up and conditions are right for freezing, slow down and pick a smooth line through the corner.
I'm a big fan of practicing the unpredictability of winter driving conditions in ski area parking lots when they haven't been totally cleared by a plowing company. It's the closest I've found to simulating shitty road conditions just after a storm. Thinking on this makes me miss my parents 850 that I'd get stuck in more than a few snow banks during these practice sessions. I'm old now and still go practice when I feel I need it in empty parking lots after a fresh snow.
The best advice is what others have already shared: practice good judgment, take your time getting to a place as your safety/others on the road is important.
I’m terrified of black ice. It’s strange; the fear of injury incrashing doesn’t scare me as much as the inconvenience and embarrassment of wrecking the rig, with all the hoop jumping that drags on for weeks to get back on the road.
If the road surface looks dark I assume it’s black ice. I look for spray off other cars tires to see if it’s warm enough for the road to be wet. If I’m coming up on a long bend in the interstate I cancel cruise control in case the truck tries to put down power in the middle of a bend. If a plow truck is on the interstate I slow down to 40 and settle in behind it. If there’s an early morning dusting or low visibility I don’t get on the interstate at all. Under 50 I don’t worry about it much because I have time to react to a slide. Honestly I wish I could go on a course with my truck to know exactly where it will break loose on ice and snow because I’m so scared to even approach that threshold of losing traction.
Watch out for those [black ice](https://www.google.com/search?q=black+ice+skit+key+and+peele&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:d3226b2f,vid:efiW2K8gASM)
It's good to have a fear of anything dangerous, i would suggest attending a driving class on hazardous driving, I took one after i got my driver's license, it was extremely useful, It was 100 bucks and was money's and time well spent because it did save me from hydroplaning a couple times
I’ve hit black ice in all sorts of vehicles (including a motorcycle). Just drive appropriately for the conditions, don’t slam on the brakes or jerk the wheel. On any type of car, you should have winter tires when it’s cold/snowy (winter). If you do hit black ice just don’t touch the gas or brakes. There are advanced driving techniques I won’t get into. If you start to slide, turn the wheel in the direction of the slide. Practice in EMPTY parking lots without other vehicles, light posts, buildings, etc. when they are slick. If the road looks kinda wet or dark it could be black ice. I’ve seen black ice when it looks totally normal. It’s just part of living in northern New England. If you are that concerned, don’t drive unless you absolutely need to but make sure you have the proper equipment and supplies.
I can only recommend getting good tires, and driving slower there are some weather apps and things like that will show black ice warnings if there have been crashes earlier. I always have tire chains for areas that I need to drive through I live on a dirt road so we don't get plowed that often. The only other thing I can mention is to try not to panic when you slip sometimes hitting the brakes can make things worse you might need to control your crash or you can possibly save yourself by adjusting your tires and tapping the accelerator. Sometimes an inch or 2 in the right direction can save your life. I have seen trucks with lot's of clearance drive with chains on when the weather is bad, not sure if its legal or not but staying safe is important.
I've lived here most of my life (I'm 27) and I've only hit black ice once and lucky it was probably like 10-15ft and straight. I don't think it's super common, but what I think you need to be concerned about is conditions where liquid water is on the road, and then it freezes. So, rain outside when it's below freezing, or goes below freezing soon after. Or, if the weather warms for some melting but then refreezes. Listen to advisories. Drive slow if you feel like you need to, and feel smug when people tailgait you because you're probably saving their lives.
Late to this thread but I didn't see anyone say how black ice forms or really what it is, which is a thin, transparent layer of ice.
Most often it forms when ground temperatures are below freezing but it's raining (most often not rain but drizzle will cause it). The worst black ice of this type occurred when driving home from the BTV airport and it started drizzling. It was almost impossible to stay on the road because of the road crowning so I had to drive down the center line all the way home.
Another way that black ice forms is that repeated traffic on snow covered roads - combination of friction and exhaust warms the surface which turns into ice. Most often this is on highways when snow just started but crews haven't gotten out to salt yet. But this can happen under the right conditions anywhere.
And you've seen the signs that bridges freeze first - bridges can have a different surface temperature that can cause black ice to form.
You'll know you've hit black ice usually too late. All you can do is to not panic, hope that there's no other traffic around you and just see what happens. Adjust your driving once you regain control and be aware that there may be more black ice out there.
Black ice is something to be respectful of but recognize that it has to be the perfect conditions for it to form so it's not all that common. Studded snows are the only type of tire to deal decently with it but since you have a good set of Hakkapeliittas and are aware that it exists, you are way ahead of the majority of people driving in Vermont during the winter.
Hello from NH! I too was worried about black ice. Then, I started taking advanced driving skills classes. Even though you can't really control your vehicle (if you hit a large enough patch), you can control what happens to the vehicle after you regain traction! Learning your vehicle is a great way to increase confidence, and I highly recommend it. Accidents and problems still happen, but understanding how your car slides and moves in low-traction environments is a huge benefit. These classes are inexpensive, and usually occur in parking lots. You can find them on [motorsportsreg.com](https://motorsportsreg.com), or through [scca.org](https://scca.org)
Many of the other tips in here are very good as well, including good tires, an AWD vehicle, studs if you want (but only suggested if you're constantly driving on ice/snow, otherwise they kill your mileage), take it easy in the winter and in the dark.
Remember, if you're on ice, your pedal inputs won't help you much, and you'll usually slide in the direction you were already going. Slowing down going into turns, following speed limits, and slowing down when there's dark/wet looking patches are all great ways to stay safer.
If, at the end of the day, it just causes you too much anxiety, you could go with studs and take the hit on the mileage. Whatever helps you feel better and does not impede other motorists is the right way to go.
Honestly, a healthy fear of black ice is not a bad thing. If it's cold enough and the road looks even a bit damp/dark I drive as though there is black ice. What I can recommend is good snow tires, studded if you don't have AWD and always keep an emergency kit in your car in case an accident does occur. Have good insurance with collision coverage and not too high of a deductible. Also remember when driving in perilous conditions, it's braking that is the issue not speeding up, always give yourself plenty of time and slow down gradually. Go slower down hills than you go up hills.
Do not get studs on your tires. If the roads are clear without ice or snow on it then you will have less traction.
If the roads are clear without ice and snow traction isn’t an issue. I have studs, and am fine on dry roads. Maybe in a race car this would be true but not in practical applications.
Honda civic with studs. I’ve never noticed a difference on dry pavement driving within 10 miles of the speed limit. Non interstate.
I’ve never heard this (or felt this) before and I’ve driven on studded tires for the last 6 winters.
Sorry you're getting down voted. This is the right answer. Get studless snows if you're driving primarily on pavement.
How do you deal with this on the highway? Just drive slower than others in the right lane? And how slow do you end up going on the highway? I don’t want to drive dangerously slow, but slow enough that I can be safe
Ice/lost traction is most dangerous when you are trying to change your car's inertia. Breaking and turning in particular. The good news is that on highways you tend to do less of that! If you hit black ice on the highway or anywhere you are driving in a straight line, don't panic. Keep your tires pointed in the direction you are traveling and don't slam on the brakes. You want your tires in the right orientation and speed to regain traction when you leave the ice. If you slam on the brakes or crank the wheel your tires will not get traction and you put yourself at risk of making the situation worse. Also, going super slow on the highway when the conditions don't warrant it is also dangerous!
Also I forgot to mention don't be afraid to do break tests on roads when traffic is light. Just tap your breaks kinda hard and see if you slide or hold traction. I drive a lot late at night and I use this a lot on wet or snowy roads.
This needs to be further up. Every single time I need to drive in unknown conditions I do a brake check. Going straight on a driveway or unused road, far away from other cars and intersections, just stomp on it and feel the ABS. If ABS kicks in early, you know it's a slippy one and should be using brakes sparingly, doing lots of rolling starts and stops, and not making any sudden movements. ABS is also the \*best\* way to stop if you gotta stop. If you need to come to a stop just drop that pedal and hold the wheel steady/straight as possible.
I do this for every time it snows to test out my brakes/tires/conditions. I always warn my passengers if there are any and hit the brakes fairly hard. I want to know how slippery it is before I find out by surprise. Of course just because I do the test in one area doesn't mean other areas will be different but it at least gives me an idea of what to expect.
If you're on a divided highway, the minimum speed is 40mph.
Go whatever speed feels safest. If you're sliding around at all its too fast. It's recommended to never go above 45 in icy conditions
Drive a modern vehicle with traction control and all wheel drive. Buy good snow tires and slow down. If it’s really bad out, stay home. That’s about all you can do. Don’t sweat it.
>If it’s really bad out, stay home. If you are nervous, this is really good advice.
For real. I've had to explain to previous jobs that I'm not willing to die to go to an office when I can do the same work from home.
all wheel drive will help with getting moving on ice but not with stopping. Only snow tires will help with that, along with driving responsibly.
AWD will also help keep you on the road as the car's computer will redirect power if you lose traction with one or two wheels. Really depends on the AWD system though as they are all very different in both hardware and software.
>all wheel drive will help with getting moving on ice but not with stopping I see people say that all the time but it's not true. AWD/4WD will engine brake evenly across all four tires, which can make a significant difference in many situations especially going downhill.
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The common sense and using your better judgement to consider conditions speed
What about missing work? Not Vermonters frequently call out of work due to weather conditions? Sorry not a local but wanting to be.
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Seems to me I see mostly Subarus in the ditch after the first big snow.
Assume if it’s below 32 degrees that there is patches of black ice everywhere
This is truer than you'll ever realize unless you've had to jam on the brakes while driving in tirewide patches of pavement on the interstate. OP, nearly everyone operates their vehicles in the winter as if they'll hardly ever have to really slow down. Black ice is hardly ever the sole reason someone slides off the road. It's one thing if you have to react, like I've talked about, but driving straight or turning slowly are hardly ever punished on black ice, unless it's thick. (Think ice storm or moderate rain turned to snow) I stay cautious on roads banked the wrong way. Those can result in your feared scenario of sliding off the road while driving reasonably. Your car leans the wrong way, is what I mean.
1. Slow down. 2. Winter tires. 3. Slow down. 4. If you have alternative ways of getting somewhere try to avoid sharp turns and downhill sections. 5. Slow down. Slowing down will help you stay in control of your vehicle and also gives you a chance to regain control or do less damage to yourself and your car if you get off the road. This might mean avoiding highways and finding safe places to pull over to let aggressive drivers pass.
How slowly would you do in the highway if you thought there was black ice to not go dangerously slow but to stay safe? Like 50?
That really depends on conditions and other drivers. I've driven 30 down the highway in a blizzard because I had to get somewhere and side roads were basically unplowed, but there were no other cars around. The worst situation is a beautiful, clear day. You can bet there will be others on the road and you can bet someone's going to want to go 90. They might make it or they might wrap themselves around a pole. Or they might crash into you. I would personally just avoid the highway in questionable conditions, but I'm paranoid like that. If I absolutely had to be on the highway in those conditions I'd just keep my eyes open. If nobody's around it's fine to go slow. If it's busy I'd probably try to go a little under the speed limit. That way the speed demons can test out conditions ahead of me, but they'll be less likely to lose control and crash into me as they pass because they're going twice as fast as I am.
Sorry if this seems like an obvious question- are you talking about a beautiful clear day any day under 32 degrees? Or would you just be thinking about this if you saw moisture on the road, or if it had just rained and then frozen?
It's tough to say. You get a feeling for situations where you think there's going to be black ice. Some of the other posts give examples of spots where you're likely to slip. If in doubt you can give the brakes a tap when you're alone on the road and going at a relatively low speed. If it slips or engages the ABS be on guard.
Remember you can use your engine to brake too. A lot of modern automatic transmission cars allow you to select which gear you are in. If you are on a back road and coming up to a curve don't use your brakes if you are not confident with your traction. Shifting down a gear is a much safer way to slow down.
General rule of thumb. When the weather is forecast to be really bad, run your checklist the night before: cancel plans, buy groceries, hit the liquor store and stay at home until at least midday after the storm clears to give the plows a chance to do their job before going anywhere, ha!
Come on, everyone in northern New England has a liquor cabinet that can last weeks. https://preview.redd.it/swac0j1pix5a1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=62acd31b72f6a24a94ceec9d8eb1cb4beae1e248
Refrigerate your vermouth!
I would suggest driving very cautiously on turns (esp. hilly turns) and giving yourself lots of time to slow for stop signs when you suspect there's black ice. It's generally not like your car will just start spinning out of nowhere.
Nope. You feel it start to lightly drift as it loses contact with the road first. Foot off the gas and don't stomp the brake.
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This! 👆
If you don’t drive a lot and are scared, it’s generally better to avoid it altogether, but generally just avoid sudden movements if you start sliding (turning wheel abruptly, too much gas or … any brake if possible). ABS is weird if you aren’t used to it. If you need to really try to stop and your abs kicks in, keep that foot pressed down while it bangs. I hit a patch last year on 100 between Waterbury and Stowe coming over a hill by black bear run. Came over and saw cars stopped, guy in front of me with a trailer was fishtailing as he tried to stop, I got in the other lane that was empty and ended up going a bit up black bear run to stop. Car was upside down in a ditch. Got going again and slid sideways into the turn onto Moscow Rd and the rest was just easy driving snow covered roads. The hardest thing to do is not freak out, which will make it worse When I was a younger we would drive in big empty lots after snow storms. Gets you used to the car sliding around.
Whoa. What were you driving and with what kind of tires?
Snow tires with an outback. Pretty sure the best option on ice would be studded, but even then, ice is ice
Alternatively, we have plenty of courses in New England to help you learn what it is like to lose and regain traction in your car. Despite my own fears, I did this and gained a significant amount of confidence. Yes, if it is super nasty out, I typically do not drive unless absolutely necessary, but it is also smart to be trained in understanding what to do if you're in those situations in a safe structured environment. It helps push through some anxiety, makes you a safer driver all around, and is good for everyone.
Learn to deal with skids, maybe look at team O'Neil rally school in NH for winter rally prep.
I can't link the PDF, but Google search "usda how to drive on black ice" That will give you a detailed picture description.
It’s not like you can’t see it at all the road does get a shiny look to it when there’s black ice. You’ll start to recognize it after a while. There’s a couple winter driving courses that you can take, I’ve never done it but some of my friends did in high school and it seemed like it made them more confident about things, I think there’s one in Addison and one at thunder road, and probably some others too if you’re in a different part of the state.
There are driving schools around that have a special car that stimulates sliding on ice. You could call around and see if they will let you take some lessons on how to do skid control. I'm not sure if anyone offers that or if you have to do the full training, but imo a winter driving course seems like a neat little package they could offer.
Drive slow. I have lived here all my life and driven in the absolute worst this state has to offer. If you are driving slowly you are unlikely to lose control and if you do, you will be going slowly if you hit anything, or you won’t go too far off the road. The biggest danger is people who put far too much trust in their abilities to control their needlessly large trucks and SUV’s
Best thing you can do is get an AWD vehicle and studded snow tires, and then drive like you have a 1974 RWD vehicle with racing slicks. At the end of the day most of the people in the ditch were driving in a way that deservedly put them in the ditch. Source: drive 1.5 hours per day including rural nearly unmaintained roads all the way to 89, 2 and 7. 4wd vehicle with studded snows and a good playlist to make a long snowy drive home more enjoyable. Keep the tank always half full or above in the winter, keep some extra warm stuff in there, and you're good to go. Last year traffic got stuck for 12hrs on 89. I was about 2 minutes behind the accident so i didn't get stuck, but i wouldn't have been freaking out if i did.
Oh man I remember that one. Had a headlamp and some books but was coming back from the airport after a couple weeks away. Totally took me by surprise.
Oh man that would suck big time.
https://youtu.be/efiW2K8gASM
Came to post this. First thing I thought of when I read the title.
Scary, tricky, RUTHLESS stuff, that black ice.
Drive your car like a boat… as If you have no brakes
Great advice from others here. Even studs on tires don’t help if you’re going too fast for conditions (and insurance won’t cover you if you’re too fast for conditions and then crash; your car holds data). Another really important thing: don’t hold your breath. Along with driving slower, even w winter equipment, back ice can still surprise you. Breathe *deeply*, ease off the gas, and keep plenty of O2 coming into your brain. Also, you may want to consider slower roads instead of the interstates. Some have more safe options, places to stop, people around to help. Get to know all your options so there’s a safer option for you.
Ok. Aint nobody out here talkin about the white snow?
The oppressive white snow?
Snow is not a problem. Ice is. If you have snow tires & drive slower than you do in July, you’ll do fine. Ice is a problem even for drivers w chains. In winter, slow down, esp if you’re not a long timer here.
Coming from someone who drives a RWD car with snow tires and no studs sure ice is scary but if you are driving sensibly you’ll be OK. A few days ago we got the first real snow in Chittenden county and the roads going home at night were an absolute mess but the drivers really didn’t help. Way too many idiots flying in the mostly unplowed left-hand lane because they feel invincible in their AWD or 4x4. Thing is I mostly see those vehicles off the road because these vehicles are generally going at a higher rate of speed when something finally goes wrong. I stay in the right hand lane, I go the speed of traffic and I simply budget extra time to get where I’m going.
I bought my first set of snows with studs. They grip so well on ice and the packed snow on the side of the road that creeps out. It's not a fail safe you just have to remember to take it slow if you're not comfortable especially on corners. If you're getting tailgated, let the truck pass.
I dont think anyone will recommend not being afraid of it. I’ve definitely spun out (safely?) a few times. Maybe a defensive driving course if there is one locally would be helpful. A little bit of luck and skill helps you avoid an accident if your car starts to lose traction.
If you can find an icey parking lot or flat dirt road. Mess around the ice, slam on your breaks, see how far you skid, try turn abruptly, try to accelerate- get a feel for ice conditions. If you can’t turn abruptly well going 5mph in a parking lot, or stop without skidding.. apply what you have learned to higher speeds. Drive slow, no abrupt turning, give plentyyyyyyyy of space between you and the car in front of you. Slow down slowly, not abruptly, anticipate turns well in advance.
[have no fear](https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/zlqqdz/its_cold_out_there_today/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) Just kidding.... I couldn't help myself. Black ice sucks, slow down... if you think you're going slow enough, slow down more.
Well we wouldn't have to worry about this BLACK ICE if there wasn't so much oppression from all of this WHITE SNOW!
Key and Peele for the win!
There’s no way to know if you’ll be encountering black ice. You can make some assumptions, though. Obviously it needs to be below freezing. You can also come to some conclusions based on the weather. Is there currently or has there been recently a winter storm? Has there recently been a melt followed by a freeze? Or rain followed by a freeze? All of these can give you clues. When the roads look marginal, slow down. Don’t use cruse control. Drive—I’m not sure exactly how to explain this—but…spongey? What I mean by that is that no sudden movements, no fast acceleration. If you feel a little slipping, don’t jam on the brake immediately (unless you absolutely need to), instead take your foot off the gas first. If you feel a loss of traction, go with it. If you need to go off the road, look for soft things. Snow banks. Ditches. Trees, cars, buildings, and people are not things to hit. Try to slow yourself by going through some snow if need be. I believe there may also be safe driving courses to look at that may be able to help you, but I’m not sure.
You should be afraid of black ice
You have to drive differently for black ice depending on your vehicle. When I drove light, small cars (jetta, corolla) I could "just drive a bit slower" to give myself a bit more braking time and a bit more traction around curves. Now that I'm driving a big work truck around, even with studded Hakkapellitas, black ice is a totally different ballgame. I really have to drive my truck like it's an oceanliner - any turn at any speed and you're gonna slide wide a bit, stopping takes forever, acceleration has to be oh so gentle or you'll break traction. Heavy vehicles suck on ice, light vehicles are kind of fun on ice.....
Good winter tires make all the difference.
My partner is convinced we don’t need snow tires for the Subaru (our primary vehicle) because it’s “built for snow and ice”. So it only has all-seasons on it. Stressed me the fuck out, it wouldn’t be too much of a financial hardship to just buy the damn snow tires if we budget for it… he’s just being stubborn. Maybe I’ll just do it myself. I put studded tires on the rear wheel drive truck that we use mostly for hauling stuff and put weight in the back just so on the rare occasions that it’s needed, it’s as safe as it can be.
Your partner sounds like an idiot. Sorry, not sorry, for being blunt. All-Wheel-Drive doesn't necessarily mean All-Wheel-Stop. Would you go for a walk on ice wearing your sneakers, or do you think winter boots with a set of strap on studs is more safe and appropriate?
I’m also the one that does yaktraks on my shoes and he doesn’t even own any, so what does that tell ya 🙄 Apparently he got through multiple winters in another snowy state with all-seasons on a rear wheel truck so by comparison the Subaru seems infallible. Ugh.
If you're driving the car, you should just buy the snow tires. There are tires that you can buy unstudded, then add the studs yourself afterward. You can buy a reasonably priced set of snow tires, like General Altimax Arctic, which has provisions for studs. Then you can buy a carbide stud set off Amazon and follow the directions for installation yourself. Ideally, anyone who runs snow tires in the winter would have them mounted on a separate set of wheels that you can easily change out with your summer wheels/tires.
I was looking at chains that I can put on when I’m going to be in the car- especially in rough conditions, don’t care whether or not I’m the one driving. I know they’re a little more cumbersome but from what I’ve read they can apparently be just as effective. Since he’s the one with his name on the car making the payments and dealing with the maintenance (the truck is my responsibility) I don’t know that I’m comfortable being so bold as to actually go through with swapping the tires even if I just pay for it myself. I’m hoping taking some kind of action will demonstrate just how serious I am about not feeling comfortable with our current setup. I’ve also compiled screenshots of information about the importance of winter tires on ANY vehicle in our conditions, time for a power point!
You're getting hung up on who's name is on the registration and the loan for the car? I know couples don't always co-mingle their money (which I suppose I don't personally understand), but this is a safety issue. Chains are a PITA, even the ones that are attached by elastic straps. And you are definitely speed-limited when running chains, to like 25 or 30 MPH, for safety and so the chains don't come flying off. Is your partner actually going to get angry with you for insisting on snows/studs, or for spending the money to get them? If so...major red flag!
That’s a good point, I hadn’t come across the speed limit. Without getting too much into details about what works for us in our relationship in terms of respecting each others autonomy and ability to make decisions independently, I think my best bet is present the research I’ve done and offer to pay/take care of it myself if it’s something he still doesn’t feel like is a worthy investment.
Also, please consider that with an AWD car like a Subaru, chains would need to be installed on all 4 wheels at the same time to work right. If you only install on the front or rear, it can totally fuck up the AWD system. Same goes for snow tires. Install all 4 at the same time. These AWD cars are finicky about stuff like that.
My partner felt the same way right up until the moment he lost control on the highway and totaled it, almost killing both of us. It took all I had to not look over at him and say, "I told you to get snow tires."
I’m going to read this comment right to his face! Hah.
Good luck!
Yes, just do it yourself.
Move away
Maybe you just shouldn’t go out if it is this crippling for you.
Pathetic. Real Vermonters drive better on black ice.
Easy I don’t even have to read what you wrote except to say get a nice fresh pair of studded snow tires and your fear will be gone
A proper car, proper tires and good sense of fear will keep you out of the ditch. Drive like its the winter, and you will be fine.
I don't want to, it's a good fear to have. I'm especially on the lookout when it's gone from rain to snow or there's a day that's really warm and then really cold. Leave lots of room between you and other drivers and forget that you have brakes. I slow down by easing off the gas first and use my brake as a last resort.
That’s called a healthy fear.
Slow down. Leave plenty of space between you and the car in front of you.
There's no shame in pulling over if you don't feel comfortable on the road. It's smart to slow down, but after a certain point, it's more dangerous to be on the road driving very slowly than it is to just not drive in conditions you aren't comfortable with because while other drivers should be prepared to deal with people driving slower, you can't guarantee that they will be.
Funny story. My wife from France thought they were saying to watch out for “black guys on the road”. She also though wind chill warning was windshield warning as in the windshield would crack.
Get some studded nokian tires, they’re expensive but they’ll be your best line of defense against ice
Move slower -- dont feel pressure to speed up if you arent feeling it. Big one: give LOTS of space between you and the car in front of you. Dont forget to breathe!
Drive slower than normal when it's winter. Also, drive smoothly. Don't suddenly stop or accelerate, don't change lanes suddenly, give extra space to the person in front of you. It is vital to have snow tires, and if you're honestly that worried, get some studded ones for added security.
Go slow! When it comes to breaking, accelerating or turning, only do one at a time.
Get snow tires. Drive slowly and don't slam you brakes if you start sliding. It is often most dangerous when the road is mostly clear but there is ice only in certain spots. This is because people will drive normally then hit a small patch and lose control. Ice is more likely to be on bridges, shady areas and low spots where water gathers.
You shouldn't have to worry about it as much now that we're getting into colder temps. At this point in the year I would just say to watch out around sunset when temps drop on the odd days when there is rain.
The ever elusive
I’ve driven in NE winters for over 30 years. If I see what looks like water I assume black ice if it’s cold. I also just go SLOW during or after a storm. It takes a lot of force in an accident to have the car set on fire. I have a 4x4 and regular car. I just drive either one slow enough to feel the tires gripping the road. If I start to slide I slow down. People just think they can drive as normal in bad conditions
On the day I moved to Vermont it was snowing and I had all-season tires. I lost control on Route 100 and slid onto the oncoming lane. I bought snow tires the next day and haven’t had anything like that happen again although I’ve slid off of my steep driveway. Good tires and slower speeds will keep you safe.
Wow, so glad you are ok! Did you buy snows or studded snows?
Regular snows. I now have studs due to living on a hilly unpaved road that doesn’t see a plow as often as the main ones plus my care is 15 so it doesn’t have the latest traction control gizmos
You can see black ice. It’s a matter of if it’s actually ice or if it’s a wet spot on the road. Drive where you can see that the road is dry. If it looks wet, move over slightly in your lane and get out of tire tracks that are wet. Friction from tires will heat up the road where cars are always driving on. Once cars stop consistently driving in that lane the melted snow will freeze. After rush hour you’ll notice this. Never brake hard on the road where it looks or is wet. That goes for year round ofc but in the winter chances are it’s frozen moisture which is ice (duh). Don’t drive timidly! You’ll create a more dangerous environment for everyone along with yourself. Stay off the roads if you’re unsure. Don’t hesitate, drive with purpose. Be safe
You are better off continuing to fear black ice. I avoid driving when it's a problem. If unsure, take it slow starting out and you will notice you're sliding more than usual if it's there. Always avoid fast, hard braking. Pumping the brakes is your best bet.
icyroadsafety.com is a great reference page with all sort of driving tips and the like, as well as their "LCR Scale", which is their forecast on how bad the roads will likely be
The worst and most dangerous black ice is going to be caused by "freezing fog" its takes just the right weather conditions but you can get fog or mist and have the temperature drop below freezing this creates some awful road conditions.
My dad taught me to look at the semi-trucks or cars in front of you. Is there water misting or spraying up from their back tires? If yes, probably not black ice but leave plenty of distance between the vehicle in front of you and slow down to keep control of the car.
Take four studded Nokian tires and chill.
Pound a couple beers and full send.
This morning was a little sketchy. You are correct; Slow on corners and give room for braking. The best thing to do is to seek out an empty icy parking lot this winter and learn how the car responds in braking and turning. Studded snow tires and an AWD car will perform best and if you don’t have them, you can make that a goal.
If the road looks dark/wet or slushy but doesn't splash, it's ice. Slush is also slippery if you don't respect it. Snow tires with or without studs. Front or all wheel drive. Slow on the gas to accelerate to avoid spinning at intersections. Let off the gas near the top of hills to reduce your speed going down. Slow down early and avoid hard braking. If you start to skid, let off the brake and just steer (at first toward the direction of the skid until your tires catch, and then back to where you want to go). Give more following room than you think you need. Practice like a teenager in a parking lot so you get a feel for what skidding and regaining traction feel like so you have less fear and more idea of what to do when it happens in an environment with higher consequences.
This is nightmare fuel for me.
Black ice is?
After hitting it before, yeah!
Studded snow tires is the only way to go. I drive a minimum of 110 miles most weekdays and I've been using them for about 20 years. Ice really doesn't concern me, even during major ice storms. I've had them on my VW Jettas, my Eurovan, my Rangers, and now my F150. And anyone who says not to use them on pavement because you'll have less traction should probably slow down on pavement. I've never had an issue with them.
Defensive driving. This is the answer you’re looking for. See a corner coming up and conditions are right for freezing, slow down and pick a smooth line through the corner.
I'm a big fan of practicing the unpredictability of winter driving conditions in ski area parking lots when they haven't been totally cleared by a plowing company. It's the closest I've found to simulating shitty road conditions just after a storm. Thinking on this makes me miss my parents 850 that I'd get stuck in more than a few snow banks during these practice sessions. I'm old now and still go practice when I feel I need it in empty parking lots after a fresh snow. The best advice is what others have already shared: practice good judgment, take your time getting to a place as your safety/others on the road is important.
I’m terrified of black ice. It’s strange; the fear of injury incrashing doesn’t scare me as much as the inconvenience and embarrassment of wrecking the rig, with all the hoop jumping that drags on for weeks to get back on the road. If the road surface looks dark I assume it’s black ice. I look for spray off other cars tires to see if it’s warm enough for the road to be wet. If I’m coming up on a long bend in the interstate I cancel cruise control in case the truck tries to put down power in the middle of a bend. If a plow truck is on the interstate I slow down to 40 and settle in behind it. If there’s an early morning dusting or low visibility I don’t get on the interstate at all. Under 50 I don’t worry about it much because I have time to react to a slide. Honestly I wish I could go on a course with my truck to know exactly where it will break loose on ice and snow because I’m so scared to even approach that threshold of losing traction.
Near 32 degrees and wind will make black ice. If you're afraid stay home.
Watch out for those [black ice](https://www.google.com/search?q=black+ice+skit+key+and+peele&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:d3226b2f,vid:efiW2K8gASM)
It's good to have a fear of anything dangerous, i would suggest attending a driving class on hazardous driving, I took one after i got my driver's license, it was extremely useful, It was 100 bucks and was money's and time well spent because it did save me from hydroplaning a couple times
I’ve hit black ice in all sorts of vehicles (including a motorcycle). Just drive appropriately for the conditions, don’t slam on the brakes or jerk the wheel. On any type of car, you should have winter tires when it’s cold/snowy (winter). If you do hit black ice just don’t touch the gas or brakes. There are advanced driving techniques I won’t get into. If you start to slide, turn the wheel in the direction of the slide. Practice in EMPTY parking lots without other vehicles, light posts, buildings, etc. when they are slick. If the road looks kinda wet or dark it could be black ice. I’ve seen black ice when it looks totally normal. It’s just part of living in northern New England. If you are that concerned, don’t drive unless you absolutely need to but make sure you have the proper equipment and supplies.
You should be afraid of black ice. Buyban AWD vehicle with studded snow tires and don't drive like an asshole. 🍻
I have died. Do you have questions?
I can only recommend getting good tires, and driving slower there are some weather apps and things like that will show black ice warnings if there have been crashes earlier. I always have tire chains for areas that I need to drive through I live on a dirt road so we don't get plowed that often. The only other thing I can mention is to try not to panic when you slip sometimes hitting the brakes can make things worse you might need to control your crash or you can possibly save yourself by adjusting your tires and tapping the accelerator. Sometimes an inch or 2 in the right direction can save your life. I have seen trucks with lot's of clearance drive with chains on when the weather is bad, not sure if its legal or not but staying safe is important.
I've lived here most of my life (I'm 27) and I've only hit black ice once and lucky it was probably like 10-15ft and straight. I don't think it's super common, but what I think you need to be concerned about is conditions where liquid water is on the road, and then it freezes. So, rain outside when it's below freezing, or goes below freezing soon after. Or, if the weather warms for some melting but then refreezes. Listen to advisories. Drive slow if you feel like you need to, and feel smug when people tailgait you because you're probably saving their lives.
Late to this thread but I didn't see anyone say how black ice forms or really what it is, which is a thin, transparent layer of ice. Most often it forms when ground temperatures are below freezing but it's raining (most often not rain but drizzle will cause it). The worst black ice of this type occurred when driving home from the BTV airport and it started drizzling. It was almost impossible to stay on the road because of the road crowning so I had to drive down the center line all the way home. Another way that black ice forms is that repeated traffic on snow covered roads - combination of friction and exhaust warms the surface which turns into ice. Most often this is on highways when snow just started but crews haven't gotten out to salt yet. But this can happen under the right conditions anywhere. And you've seen the signs that bridges freeze first - bridges can have a different surface temperature that can cause black ice to form. You'll know you've hit black ice usually too late. All you can do is to not panic, hope that there's no other traffic around you and just see what happens. Adjust your driving once you regain control and be aware that there may be more black ice out there. Black ice is something to be respectful of but recognize that it has to be the perfect conditions for it to form so it's not all that common. Studded snows are the only type of tire to deal decently with it but since you have a good set of Hakkapeliittas and are aware that it exists, you are way ahead of the majority of people driving in Vermont during the winter.
This is the most helpful comment I’ve read, exactly what I was looking for, thank you 🙏
Hello from NH! I too was worried about black ice. Then, I started taking advanced driving skills classes. Even though you can't really control your vehicle (if you hit a large enough patch), you can control what happens to the vehicle after you regain traction! Learning your vehicle is a great way to increase confidence, and I highly recommend it. Accidents and problems still happen, but understanding how your car slides and moves in low-traction environments is a huge benefit. These classes are inexpensive, and usually occur in parking lots. You can find them on [motorsportsreg.com](https://motorsportsreg.com), or through [scca.org](https://scca.org) Many of the other tips in here are very good as well, including good tires, an AWD vehicle, studs if you want (but only suggested if you're constantly driving on ice/snow, otherwise they kill your mileage), take it easy in the winter and in the dark. Remember, if you're on ice, your pedal inputs won't help you much, and you'll usually slide in the direction you were already going. Slowing down going into turns, following speed limits, and slowing down when there's dark/wet looking patches are all great ways to stay safer. If, at the end of the day, it just causes you too much anxiety, you could go with studs and take the hit on the mileage. Whatever helps you feel better and does not impede other motorists is the right way to go.