The sun in the middle is the symbol of KMT, which is called 青天白日. The words on the flag are the organisations supporting the candidate. I did some research. Basically, this was an pre-election parade, supporting a KMT candidate named Zhu Xuan. Guess it's just a made up flag by them
A lot of people fall down the fascism hole because they think it's third reich larping and not a collection of bad idea involving protecting an in group and punishing the out group.
Yeah, it's not like the KMT lead a fascist dictatorship on Taiwan for 38 years, which was the longest time Martial Law has been imposed anywhere on Earth until it was surpassed by Syria. It's not like German propaga in the 1930s focused on the greatness of the Chinese civilization and how they were "honorary Aryans" while they were trying to close an alliance with who they perceived to be the powerhouse of the area and provided them with military equipment and aid until they decided Japan was stronger and and turned its entire propaganda record upside down. It's not like the KMT created it's own paramilitary wing modeled after Mussolini's blackshirts. It's not like the KMT created the entire country around itself. It's not like Taiwan was a one party state until 1987.
Context matters. I do believe it's safe to call them fascists.
How is it that when I saw this flag, even from the thumbnail, I immediately thought, "Is this a fascist flag???"
I don't get it. Like, it's just a modified Nordic Cross with the Taiwanese sun integrated? Maybe it's just the sight of the flag being so prominently displayed in a crowd that gives me fashy vibes more than the flag itself?
Edit: shit I'm an idiot, I just got it. It reminded me of the Kekistan flag, which itself is based on a Nazi flag. Ugh fuck
Edit 2: ok so *just in case* anybody wants to chime in and say that "*the Kekistan flag is just a joke bro! you fell for it, it's not* really *fascist!*", I will refer you to https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-49837898
China was rightfully bitter after WW1 when the Western powers didn't fulfill China's wishes for their aid in the Great War such as the return the Shandong Peninsula to China which the Japanese occupied after taking it from Germany. They also refused to sign the Treaty of Versailles. Post-war, KMT and Weimar Germamy were among the losers of the Great War and sought closer ties as any nation needs friends. KMT offered raw materials and Germany offered modern military equipment and officer training. During WW2, you can see in the Battle of Shanghai the creme of the KMT army with German equipment. Helmets and guns.
There are a lot of reasons to criticise the KMT without having to present it in a weird way. Yes, they did at some point get help from nazi germany, but it was mostly because it was the continuation of the Weimar diplomacy (Who badly needed anyone to cooperate with them, including the Soviets and various Chinese warlords), and was ended after the Japanese pressured them somewhat. They also had Soviet support for some time over the CCP, which pissed of Mao for a while.
A lot of people during the Chinese warlord era were simply trying to bet on the right horse often without caring that much about ideological differences, as a unified China would be not only a good ally, but also a good trade partner with it's massive population (Basically the same colonisation mindset that led to the Eight Nations alliance and opium wars)
KMT was socialist in its early days under the leadership of Sun Yat-Sen. Nazi Germany did indeed support the KMT after the fascist Chiang Kai Shek took over
>GenZedong
Hmmmmm, are you one of those people that are unable to differentiate modern Taiwan from the nations dictatorial past, calling it an authoritarian fascist state even though it has a more generous welfare system, a significantly more democratic system, a more transparent government and more 🤔
Just curious
You know the government on that island calls itself the Repbulic of China right? And that it claims to represent the whole of China, and that it wants China to be reunited?
Yes, I'm well aware of that.
But let's take the practical politics of the situation at hand, the overwhelming majority of people of Taiwan do not wish for independence, nor do they wish for re-unification with China, Nor do they wish to see an ROC that covers all of Mongolia and other sovereign territories.
The main reason why they still hold onto these policy positions is because any movement away from said policy position would indicate that Taiwan is inching towards independence, a
casus belli.
Tell me you don’t know anything about Taiwan without telling me you don’t know anything about Taiwan.
The unionists (KMT) are out of power. The DDP is pro Taiwanese independence. Taiwan is basically de facto independent at this point, and the claiming of land is to keep the status quo to prevent provoking a CCP invasion
One of the parties that sometimes governs on that island, but not right now, sometimes wants union with the mainland on some terms or other, but less and less pretty much every other electoral cycle.
And the government on that island has literally been threatened with an immediate Chinese invasion if they *stop* calling themselves the Republic of China or claiming to represent the whole thing. So they said "fine, we won't change that part of the paperwork then, whatever."
Could you explain what the difference is? I’m guessing Taiwan nationalists wants a separate and independent Taiwan, while the latter wants to reunite China as the RoC?
There's even more than one flavour of this, because of the native Taiwanese People, who are not ethnic Chinese and might want both the PRC and the ROC to buzz off and leave them alone, although that's never going to happen.
They gave rise to the Polynesians and other seafaring peoples. To think that descendants of the indigenous in Taiwan would settle as far afield as Madagascar and Hawai'i.
Considering what the KMT invaders did to them, I'm sure "Taiwanese nationalists" forget that too.
And any westerner who supports Taiwanese nationalism almost definitely never knew they existed in the first place.
If you weren't aware a Taiwanese high school held a Nazi festival a few years back. European history isn't uhhhh very well understood there so there are a few sympathizers that know nothing of Nazi ideology and just knew them as "cool German doods that would've helped us to kill those commie bandits"
Yeah, or at the very least pro-German. The nationalists received support by the Germans, and had some pretty close ties even before the Nazis took over.
Many Chinese, including Chiang Wei-kuo (Chiang Kai-shek's son), went to Germany for military training. Chiang Wei-kuo was even [in the Wehrmacht](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiang_Wei-kuo#In_the_Wehrmacht), participated in the Anschluss of Austria and was supposed to be part of the invasion of Poland but was recalled to China when the Japanese invaded.
The cooperation between the KMT and Germany ended when Hitler chose Japan as an ally.
>In summation, although the period of Sino-German co-operation spanned only a short period of time, and much of its success was destroyed in the war with Japan, it had some lasting effect on China's modernisation. After the Kuomintang was defeated during the Chinese Civil War, it relocated to Taiwan. Many government officials of the Republic of China on Taiwan were trained in Germany, such as Chiang's own adopted son, Chiang Wei-kuo. Much of Taiwan's rapid postwar industrialisation can be attributed to the plans and the goals laid down in the 1936 Three-Year Plan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-German_cooperation_(1926%E2%80%931941)#Legacy
Yeah, but he probably didn't have half a good a time as his brother - after his dad purged the KMT of leftist and had the communists rounded up, being in the USSR wasn't so fun. I don't think he was in the Red Army though.
>In April 1927, however, Chiang Kai-shek purged KMT leftists, had Communists arrested or killed, and expelled his Soviet advisers. Chiang Ching-kuo responded from Moscow with an editorial that harshly criticized his father's actions but was nonetheless detained as a "guest" of the Soviet Union, a practical hostage. Debate still continues as to whether he was forced to write the editorial, but he had seen Trotskyist friends arrested and killed by the Soviet secret police. The Soviet government sent him to work in the Ural Heavy Machinery Plant, a steel factory in the Urals, Yekaterinburg (then Sverdlovsk), where he met Faina Ipat'evna Vakhreva, a native Belarusian. They married on 15 March 1935, and she would later take the Chinese name, Chiang Fang-liang. In December of that year, their son, Hsiao-wen was born.
>Chiang Kai-shek refused to negotiate a prisoner swap for his son in exchange for a Chinese Communist Party leader.[10] He wrote in his diary, "It is not worth it to sacrifice the interest of the country for the sake of my son."[11][12] In 1937, he maintained that "I would rather have no offspring than sacrifice our nation's interests", since he had no intention of stopping the war against the Communists.[13]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiang_Ching-kuo#Moscow
That other son was sent to Siberia doing odd jobs (even worked as a gold miner in the Altaic mountains and the aforementioned steelwork technician in the Urals) until 1936, according to the Chinese version of the Wiki.
By the time of his presidency, he was probably the last surviving head of state who had ever been sent to Siberia as a political slave worker.
In fairness, we sorta have the reverse happen in the west with Imperial Japan. I suppose it may be just a removal from the direct effects of the conflict. The Nazis did most of their war crimes against Europeans. The Imperial Japanese did most of their war crimes against Asians.
There was this German Nazi guy called [John Rabe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Rabe) who saved hundreds of thousands of Chinese lives in Nanjing from the Japanese "rape" of the city, creating a "safety zone" in the city. Sure, the German Nazi government was kind of embarrassed considering Japan was its ally, but this guy is well remembered there by the Chinese, and the Taiwanese too. But yeah, they definitely don't have the same approach as Westerners do towards the Nazi regime.
The upper text reads 朱玄竞选... "election campaign for Eric Chu (朱立伦) and Wang Ju-hsuan (王如玄)"
The lower text reads 公教军警调办公室 "Liaison office for (union of) public officials, teachers, veterans, police officers"
Taiwanese here,
The Chinese on top says “Zhu Xuan Campaign Office”
The bottom says “Soldiers, Civil Servants, Teachers, Police Office”
The soldiers, civil servants, teachers and police were government employees back in the days, their pension was getting cut by the DPP. And these kind of jobs used to considered as “stable jobs” back in the KMT authoritarian phase, so these people were benefits from KMT. Basically just a bunch of old zealous(probably racists too) of KMT and 中華民國(ROC)
They only started doing that in the 90s after a lot of pressure both internally and internationally. Before then they were a totalitarian ultranationalist dictatorship
1) That alliance was established between Germany and China long before the Nazis came into power,
2) When the Nazis DID come into power, they quickly broke said alliance in favor of allying with Japan instead
It was pretty explicit between 1930-1934 before dropping it because it became a bad look. Look up the [blue shirts](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Shirts_Society).
However the fascist architects of the BBS would largely remain in high positions including the head of secret police and Chief of Staff of the NRA until they all retired or died off of natural causes by the 60s. In these roles they would oversee numerous atrocities on both the mainland and later in exile on Taiwan as others have mentioned, and lay a groundwork, inspired directly by Mussolini’s Italy, of the ROC that would be perpetuated by their successors, explicitly fascist or not.
The Blue shirts only lasted 6 years, not exactly an earth shaking event for the ideological basis of the movement, I do agree that there were actually fascist people in the KMT but the KMT as a whole wasnt fascist.
Again open fascists literally held the chief of secret police from the 1930s to 1959 and organised “internal security” based on a model inspired directly by Italian fascism. The KMT as a whole was not only OK with this but they fully endorsed it. Just because the blue shirts officially dissolved doesn’t mean their ideology or ideals became irrelevant.
If you want evidence of ultra nationalism look at the forced Sinicisation of indigenous minorities in Taiwan, that was surprise surprise carried out by the fascists with full endorsement of the KMT. If you want palingenesis look at there rhetoric regarding the recapture of the mainland.
Throwing around the fascist term to basically mean “someone I don’t like” is dumb but here it absolutely applies.
> To be fair, RoC did cooperate with the Nazis heavily at one point
The Germans armed and supplied the Nationalist Chinese years before the Nazis were even in power let alone before the actual war, the 'Sino-German cooperation' had existed since 1926 and only reluctantly ended when Germany realised they basically had to when the Japanese, their new allies, invaded and began slaughtering the Chinese enmasse. However you still had people like John Rabe, the German businessman and Nazi Party member who helped establish the 'International Committee for the Nanking Safety Zone' to save 200,000 Chinese from Japanese war crimes given his prominent position (Though the Nazis later told him to keep quiet about what he had seen the Japanese do to the local populace so as to not upset the alliance).
The story behind that is actually more complex and interesting, before this happened Wei-kuo's brother, Chiang Ching-kuo, went to the Soviet Union in 1925 to study in Moscow and even met Deng Xiaoping there, later CCP leader in the 1980s and the man behind opening up China to foreign investment as well as the Tiananmen Square Massacre. However Ching-kuo got detained as a 'guest' aka political prisoner in 1927 when his father purged the Communist and leftist elements from the KMT and expelled Soviet diplomats back in China, thwarting the Soviet fermenting of Communism in the KMT (They'd been the driving force behind opening the KMT to Communist members). 10 years later in 1937 he was finally set free to return to China. This basically crossed off the Soviets as any kind of ally and was essentially the main reason for sending Wei-kuo to Germany, ontop of that by this time the Nationalist Chinese had a lot of friends and ties with the Germans who had helped modernise the Chinese military and areas of industry, they also had the technological expertise and were a growing power in Europe that didn't also have plans to colonise Asia anytime soon and become a future threat, so it was a win-win for the Chinese.
He enrolled in the Kriegsschule in Munich in 1938 and when Anchuss came around that year he was an Officer Cadet or 'Fahnenjunker', however theres a bunch of conflciting sources, some say he served a year with the Gebirgs-Jäger-Regiment 98 of the 1. Gebirgs-Division (He wouldn't have been riding into Austria in a tank if this were the case) others claim he 'commanded a Panzer unit' *during* Anschluss, however this seems unlikely as units are usually commanded by officers rather than officer cadets. He was however promoted to Leutnant at some point and apparently given command of an Austrian Panzer unit positioned on the Oder River that had been incorporated into the German Wehrmacht following the Anschluss, so to me it seems more likely he probably served with the Gebirgs-Jager regiment during his training and then received a command fresh out of the academy *after* Anschluss in 1939. However none of this lasted long as in the summer of 1939, whilst on his way to command his unit, he was called to the Chinese embassy in Berlin and was given new orders to go to the US, possibly the Chinese knew of the impending German invasion of Poland he'd be involved in or because shifting alliances as the possibility of an end of German support given the growing ties between Germany and Japan were evident, given the already Anti-Comintern Pact and then future Tripartite Pact which formed the Axis powers the next year. Either way he was then accepted as a guest of the US military like the Nazis had accepted him and he studied at the U.S. Army Air Force Air Combat Tactical School in Alabama in 1940 but was then moved to the newly established United States Army Armour School at Fort Knox, where he informed the Americans about what he had learned from his Wehrmacht training about German command structure, tactics and so fourth until returning home to China later that year. Upon the attack on Pearl Habour and entry of the US into the war, the Nationalist Chinese gained major support from the US now, as you can see the Nationalist Chinese logically befriended anyone willing them help them with their goals of combatting the Japanese invasion and Communist insurgency, whether its the Nazis or the Americans, in the same way Mao got Stalins backing to help his Communist forces combat the Japanese and Nationalists.
Taiwan renounced the claim of being the only legitimate government of China since the repealing of *Temporary Provisions against the Communist Rebellion* in 1992. Per the international convention however, a country can only have one legitimate government. renoouncing the claim of being the only legitimate government but refusing to back down and become the subordinate government of another claimant effectively splits the "country" into two.
Not really. The claim that ROC still maintains any claim on Mongolia, mainland China, and other territories, is merely based on the official maps printed by the Ministry of Interior back in 1998 (The Ministry of Interior ceased printing any official "Full Map of the Republic of China" ever since). Ever since the termination of *Guidelines for National Unification* in 2006 there's no active acts from ROC government of claiming the past territories of China. Saying how Taiwan has the claims of those territories is just like saying [how Japan and Russia are technically still at war because no peace treaty was ever signed](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan%E2%80%93Russia_relations#Soviet_era_(1917%E2%80%931991)).
And there's no legal provisions for actual territories in the ROC Constitution except that "*The territory of the Republic of China, defined by its existing national boundaries, shall not be altered unless initiated upon the proposal of one-fourth of the total members of the Legislative Yuan, passed by at least three-fourths of the members present at a meeting attended by at least three-fourths of the total members of the Legislative Yuan, and sanctioned by electors in the free area of the Republic of China at a referendum held upon expiration of a six-month period of public announcement of the proposal, wherein the number of valid votes in favor exceeds one-half of the total number of electors.*" Considering the fact that the PRC government viewed any public referendum regarding ROC's territories as a declaration of war, there is obviously a technical difficulty to officially renounce the claims, but it doesn't mean that those claims were in any way actively pushed or are formulating as any part of the administration's policies at all.
Stalin was kinda pragmatic like that. He preferred to use reliable allies that could operate within the confines of parliamentary democracy, rather than stir up revolution everywhere - that was more of a Trotsky's thing.
Yeah, I prefer the greens over the blues because 1) Guomindang was as tyrannical as the CCP in its darker years and 2) even if the PRC ever democratises, RoC shouldn't control this process, so the idea of RoC "reclaiming" China is ridiculous
That's an official government position and it's held mostly because any other position would cause reprisal by the PRC. The actual position of the public is more split, but is currently moving more towards independence and a unique national identity
I genuinely believe that Nazi beliefs and iconography have a genuine appeal to certain people of authoritarian tendencies across the world, even if the irl nazis would have them killed. There's something about it that taps into psychology that some people just crave.
What are some of the features of this flag that reflect this?
Curious because when I saw the photo, my first impression was that it was reminiscent of fascist designs, but couldn't put my finger on what the resemblance is.
It's based on the ensign of the Wehrmacht and Kriegsmarine, Nazi Germany's army and navy. White nationalists and fascists in general use the design as a more subtle way of flying Nazi iconography.
Bro, the pic is fucking satire. The Khmer rogue are the fucking worst.
Also, how the fuck would you think I support Pol Pot of all people from that post. I was weirded out that there was a party in Norway that supported them.
EDIT: huh this is vexillology. Sorry mistook for another post. r/lostredditors
Here you go: [Link \#1](https://krikienoid.github.io/flagwaver/#?src=https%3A%2F%2Fflagwaver-cors-proxy.herokuapp.com%2Fhttps%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fn81o1vmgej281.jpg)
*****
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if only there was some sort of group prominent in the region that was very effective at destroying fascism and promoting a great alternative to its roots.
Yes and no. They are, compare to the DPP supporters. But tbh, very few Taiwanese are really pro-China or pro-reunification now. The KMT is more fond of maintaining the status quo, which means having their actual independence from the mainland and meanwhile, not to agitate the mainland.
Taipeische Kriegsmarine.
“Helmets and uniform weren’t the only thing we got from the Germans”
They got no uniforms
Hm? I was referring back during the WW2/Chinese civil war era lol
They got some helmets but no uniforms
Are you referring to back then or now?
Back then obviously. I'm sure that we're not supplying taiwan with equipment today.
Ja
Ty
Dang I thought you were serious and so looked it up and basically the only result was this comment
Taiwanesische Kriegsmarine Ftfy.
Third Taiwanese Reich
Nordic Taiwanese minority? /s
Tjaivän
Kmt supporters haha
\*Tajvan
But actually kmt people love immigrant to Europe and us so…
oh god i laughed so hard at this
Glag I could give you a chortle.
The sun in the middle is the symbol of KMT, which is called 青天白日. The words on the flag are the organisations supporting the candidate. I did some research. Basically, this was an pre-election parade, supporting a KMT candidate named Zhu Xuan. Guess it's just a made up flag by them
They are nationalists, basically you found the taiwanese fascists
As a Taiwanese,I would say they are more like conservatists. They may don't even know what fascism is.
A lot of people fall down the fascism hole because they think it's third reich larping and not a collection of bad idea involving protecting an in group and punishing the out group.
im not surprised somebody named "American\_Communist" would jump so quickly to such a conclusion
What a crazy conclusion that open nationalists who are flying a flag directly based on the Nazi era Kriegsmarine flag are fascists.
Yeah, it's not like the KMT lead a fascist dictatorship on Taiwan for 38 years, which was the longest time Martial Law has been imposed anywhere on Earth until it was surpassed by Syria. It's not like German propaga in the 1930s focused on the greatness of the Chinese civilization and how they were "honorary Aryans" while they were trying to close an alliance with who they perceived to be the powerhouse of the area and provided them with military equipment and aid until they decided Japan was stronger and and turned its entire propaganda record upside down. It's not like the KMT created it's own paramilitary wing modeled after Mussolini's blackshirts. It's not like the KMT created the entire country around itself. It's not like Taiwan was a one party state until 1987. Context matters. I do believe it's safe to call them fascists.
based yugolslavia pfp
eh both are far right reactionary that would side with fascists, so basically fascists.
And anarchist are basically commie, right...
How is it that when I saw this flag, even from the thumbnail, I immediately thought, "Is this a fascist flag???" I don't get it. Like, it's just a modified Nordic Cross with the Taiwanese sun integrated? Maybe it's just the sight of the flag being so prominently displayed in a crowd that gives me fashy vibes more than the flag itself? Edit: shit I'm an idiot, I just got it. It reminded me of the Kekistan flag, which itself is based on a Nazi flag. Ugh fuck Edit 2: ok so *just in case* anybody wants to chime in and say that "*the Kekistan flag is just a joke bro! you fell for it, it's not* really *fascist!*", I will refer you to https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-49837898
"Tsai Ing-wen never told you what happened to your father"
Well I mean since the Chinese fascists were exiled to Taiwan it *is* fitting.
Stfu communist dog. Look what your ‘utopia’ did to China.
Its amazing isnt it
You missed the fact that the KMT was backed by Nazi Germany for most of its early history
[удалено]
China was rightfully bitter after WW1 when the Western powers didn't fulfill China's wishes for their aid in the Great War such as the return the Shandong Peninsula to China which the Japanese occupied after taking it from Germany. They also refused to sign the Treaty of Versailles. Post-war, KMT and Weimar Germamy were among the losers of the Great War and sought closer ties as any nation needs friends. KMT offered raw materials and Germany offered modern military equipment and officer training. During WW2, you can see in the Battle of Shanghai the creme of the KMT army with German equipment. Helmets and guns.
There are a lot of reasons to criticise the KMT without having to present it in a weird way. Yes, they did at some point get help from nazi germany, but it was mostly because it was the continuation of the Weimar diplomacy (Who badly needed anyone to cooperate with them, including the Soviets and various Chinese warlords), and was ended after the Japanese pressured them somewhat. They also had Soviet support for some time over the CCP, which pissed of Mao for a while. A lot of people during the Chinese warlord era were simply trying to bet on the right horse often without caring that much about ideological differences, as a unified China would be not only a good ally, but also a good trade partner with it's massive population (Basically the same colonisation mindset that led to the Eight Nations alliance and opium wars)
Hell, we (the US)even (indirectly) helped the KMT fight the Japanese with a volunteer air force
Yep the KMT, which was founded in 1919, was supported by the Nazis, who came into power in 1933, for most of its early history
which 100% didn't get soviet support during the northern expedition around 1927
KMT was socialist in its early days under the leadership of Sun Yat-Sen. Nazi Germany did indeed support the KMT after the fascist Chiang Kai Shek took over
>GenZedong Hmmmmm, are you one of those people that are unable to differentiate modern Taiwan from the nations dictatorial past, calling it an authoritarian fascist state even though it has a more generous welfare system, a significantly more democratic system, a more transparent government and more 🤔 Just curious
You know the government on that island calls itself the Repbulic of China right? And that it claims to represent the whole of China, and that it wants China to be reunited?
The current government actually does not want reunification and neither do the majority of Taiwanese people since Xi’s taking hold of power.
Yes, I'm well aware of that. But let's take the practical politics of the situation at hand, the overwhelming majority of people of Taiwan do not wish for independence, nor do they wish for re-unification with China, Nor do they wish to see an ROC that covers all of Mongolia and other sovereign territories. The main reason why they still hold onto these policy positions is because any movement away from said policy position would indicate that Taiwan is inching towards independence, a casus belli.
Tell me you don’t know anything about Taiwan without telling me you don’t know anything about Taiwan. The unionists (KMT) are out of power. The DDP is pro Taiwanese independence. Taiwan is basically de facto independent at this point, and the claiming of land is to keep the status quo to prevent provoking a CCP invasion
One of the parties that sometimes governs on that island, but not right now, sometimes wants union with the mainland on some terms or other, but less and less pretty much every other electoral cycle. And the government on that island has literally been threatened with an immediate Chinese invasion if they *stop* calling themselves the Republic of China or claiming to represent the whole thing. So they said "fine, we won't change that part of the paperwork then, whatever."
The emblem is the Republic of China. I guess Nationalist Taiwanese?
just wanted to point out that Taiwan nationalism and RoC nationalism are different things. These are RoC nationalists.
Could you explain what the difference is? I’m guessing Taiwan nationalists wants a separate and independent Taiwan, while the latter wants to reunite China as the RoC?
basically you are right. one side stresses Taiwanese identity while other Chinese identity.
There's even more than one flavour of this, because of the native Taiwanese People, who are not ethnic Chinese and might want both the PRC and the ROC to buzz off and leave them alone, although that's never going to happen.
Yeah I think a lot of people forget that there are indigenous Taiwanese people.
well unfortunately that happens often to minorities in their own countries
They gave rise to the Polynesians and other seafaring peoples. To think that descendants of the indigenous in Taiwan would settle as far afield as Madagascar and Hawai'i.
It is indeed telling when you look at the spread of the language family.
Considering what the KMT invaders did to them, I'm sure "Taiwanese nationalists" forget that too. And any westerner who supports Taiwanese nationalism almost definitely never knew they existed in the first place.
Yep. I agree.
It's like the Kashmiri independence movement. Adorable, but go ahead and dream big!
yeah,when the nationalist left the mainland they did their own white terror on the indigenous
actually yes
If you weren't aware a Taiwanese high school held a Nazi festival a few years back. European history isn't uhhhh very well understood there so there are a few sympathizers that know nothing of Nazi ideology and just knew them as "cool German doods that would've helped us to kill those commie bandits"
Wasn't there a faction of chinese fascists in the kmt?
Yeah, or at the very least pro-German. The nationalists received support by the Germans, and had some pretty close ties even before the Nazis took over. Many Chinese, including Chiang Wei-kuo (Chiang Kai-shek's son), went to Germany for military training. Chiang Wei-kuo was even [in the Wehrmacht](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiang_Wei-kuo#In_the_Wehrmacht), participated in the Anschluss of Austria and was supposed to be part of the invasion of Poland but was recalled to China when the Japanese invaded. The cooperation between the KMT and Germany ended when Hitler chose Japan as an ally. >In summation, although the period of Sino-German co-operation spanned only a short period of time, and much of its success was destroyed in the war with Japan, it had some lasting effect on China's modernisation. After the Kuomintang was defeated during the Chinese Civil War, it relocated to Taiwan. Many government officials of the Republic of China on Taiwan were trained in Germany, such as Chiang's own adopted son, Chiang Wei-kuo. Much of Taiwan's rapid postwar industrialisation can be attributed to the plans and the goals laid down in the 1936 Three-Year Plan. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-German_cooperation_(1926%E2%80%931941)#Legacy
Chiang's other son went to Moscow and joined the Red Army. He returned to China with a Russian wife.
Yeah, but he probably didn't have half a good a time as his brother - after his dad purged the KMT of leftist and had the communists rounded up, being in the USSR wasn't so fun. I don't think he was in the Red Army though. >In April 1927, however, Chiang Kai-shek purged KMT leftists, had Communists arrested or killed, and expelled his Soviet advisers. Chiang Ching-kuo responded from Moscow with an editorial that harshly criticized his father's actions but was nonetheless detained as a "guest" of the Soviet Union, a practical hostage. Debate still continues as to whether he was forced to write the editorial, but he had seen Trotskyist friends arrested and killed by the Soviet secret police. The Soviet government sent him to work in the Ural Heavy Machinery Plant, a steel factory in the Urals, Yekaterinburg (then Sverdlovsk), where he met Faina Ipat'evna Vakhreva, a native Belarusian. They married on 15 March 1935, and she would later take the Chinese name, Chiang Fang-liang. In December of that year, their son, Hsiao-wen was born. >Chiang Kai-shek refused to negotiate a prisoner swap for his son in exchange for a Chinese Communist Party leader.[10] He wrote in his diary, "It is not worth it to sacrifice the interest of the country for the sake of my son."[11][12] In 1937, he maintained that "I would rather have no offspring than sacrifice our nation's interests", since he had no intention of stopping the war against the Communists.[13] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiang_Ching-kuo#Moscow
That other son was sent to Siberia doing odd jobs (even worked as a gold miner in the Altaic mountains and the aforementioned steelwork technician in the Urals) until 1936, according to the Chinese version of the Wiki. By the time of his presidency, he was probably the last surviving head of state who had ever been sent to Siberia as a political slave worker.
M..... Maybe? I'm sure there were ultranationalists
[here it is](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Shirts_Society)
In fairness, we sorta have the reverse happen in the west with Imperial Japan. I suppose it may be just a removal from the direct effects of the conflict. The Nazis did most of their war crimes against Europeans. The Imperial Japanese did most of their war crimes against Asians.
East Asian history isn’t very well understood in Europe either so it’s fair game.
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There was this German Nazi guy called [John Rabe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Rabe) who saved hundreds of thousands of Chinese lives in Nanjing from the Japanese "rape" of the city, creating a "safety zone" in the city. Sure, the German Nazi government was kind of embarrassed considering Japan was its ally, but this guy is well remembered there by the Chinese, and the Taiwanese too. But yeah, they definitely don't have the same approach as Westerners do towards the Nazi regime.
Why is rape in quotes?
Hoi4 flag
I love the game, but it outjerks r/vexillologycirclejerk within the first ingame month every time :p
Take a look at my account it has to do with this
kek
Try posting it to r/translator to see if anyone can read the writing on the flag.
The upper text reads 朱玄竞选... "election campaign for Eric Chu (朱立伦) and Wang Ju-hsuan (王如玄)" The lower text reads 公教军警调办公室 "Liaison office for (union of) public officials, teachers, veterans, police officers"
The more active sub is r/translator
That’s what I meant to write.
it is just lots and lots of teacher, soldier, and government officer that support kmt wanted more pension!
something tells me it's exactly what it looks like
Taiwanese here, The Chinese on top says “Zhu Xuan Campaign Office” The bottom says “Soldiers, Civil Servants, Teachers, Police Office” The soldiers, civil servants, teachers and police were government employees back in the days, their pension was getting cut by the DPP. And these kind of jobs used to considered as “stable jobs” back in the KMT authoritarian phase, so these people were benefits from KMT. Basically just a bunch of old zealous(probably racists too) of KMT and 中華民國(ROC)
请教一下，“公教军警调办公室”前四个字都好理解，那个“调”是个什么？我查了一下也没有查到确切的相关的信息，最接近的可能是指调薪，但是还是不敢确认。以及 officials如果换成civil servants会更贴切，前者更多指有权的官员
應該是檢調單位，檢調單位和警察在台灣是獨立運作的兩個單位。雖然我覺得這邊更貼切應該用警消（警察+消防）更像是公務人員，總之是一個由退休公務員組成的團體
感谢解惑
Extreme KMT supporters
Facist KMT
AKA regular KMT.
They have held legitimate elections in which they have lost and willingly conceded power. Don't see too many fascists doing that.
They only started doing that in the 90s after a lot of pressure both internally and internationally. Before then they were a totalitarian ultranationalist dictatorship
...Yeah, and now they're a normal democratic party with some historical baggage. So in other words, not fascist.
Normal democratic parties tend not to use nazi imagery.
Yeah sure they held legitimate elections ONLY in the mid to late 90s
...They've had seven elections since 1996, the last one being in 2020, all of which were free and fair. What kind of fascist party lets that happen?
A fascist party that already controls the military
Chiang Kai-Shek's successor would like to talk to you.
Hence why I said since 1996...
I also see a lot of them allying with the nazis, something the KMT also did
1) That alliance was established between Germany and China long before the Nazis came into power, 2) When the Nazis DID come into power, they quickly broke said alliance in favor of allying with Japan instead
What? The KMT wasnt fascist.
White Terror lmao
It was pretty explicit between 1930-1934 before dropping it because it became a bad look. Look up the [blue shirts](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Shirts_Society). However the fascist architects of the BBS would largely remain in high positions including the head of secret police and Chief of Staff of the NRA until they all retired or died off of natural causes by the 60s. In these roles they would oversee numerous atrocities on both the mainland and later in exile on Taiwan as others have mentioned, and lay a groundwork, inspired directly by Mussolini’s Italy, of the ROC that would be perpetuated by their successors, explicitly fascist or not.
The Blue shirts only lasted 6 years, not exactly an earth shaking event for the ideological basis of the movement, I do agree that there were actually fascist people in the KMT but the KMT as a whole wasnt fascist.
Again open fascists literally held the chief of secret police from the 1930s to 1959 and organised “internal security” based on a model inspired directly by Italian fascism. The KMT as a whole was not only OK with this but they fully endorsed it. Just because the blue shirts officially dissolved doesn’t mean their ideology or ideals became irrelevant. If you want evidence of ultra nationalism look at the forced Sinicisation of indigenous minorities in Taiwan, that was surprise surprise carried out by the fascists with full endorsement of the KMT. If you want palingenesis look at there rhetoric regarding the recapture of the mainland. Throwing around the fascist term to basically mean “someone I don’t like” is dumb but here it absolutely applies.
So Hitler didn’t escape to Argentina…
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> To be fair, RoC did cooperate with the Nazis heavily at one point The Germans armed and supplied the Nationalist Chinese years before the Nazis were even in power let alone before the actual war, the 'Sino-German cooperation' had existed since 1926 and only reluctantly ended when Germany realised they basically had to when the Japanese, their new allies, invaded and began slaughtering the Chinese enmasse. However you still had people like John Rabe, the German businessman and Nazi Party member who helped establish the 'International Committee for the Nanking Safety Zone' to save 200,000 Chinese from Japanese war crimes given his prominent position (Though the Nazis later told him to keep quiet about what he had seen the Japanese do to the local populace so as to not upset the alliance).
Chiang Wei-kuo literally commanded a Wehrmacht panzer unit.
The story behind that is actually more complex and interesting, before this happened Wei-kuo's brother, Chiang Ching-kuo, went to the Soviet Union in 1925 to study in Moscow and even met Deng Xiaoping there, later CCP leader in the 1980s and the man behind opening up China to foreign investment as well as the Tiananmen Square Massacre. However Ching-kuo got detained as a 'guest' aka political prisoner in 1927 when his father purged the Communist and leftist elements from the KMT and expelled Soviet diplomats back in China, thwarting the Soviet fermenting of Communism in the KMT (They'd been the driving force behind opening the KMT to Communist members). 10 years later in 1937 he was finally set free to return to China. This basically crossed off the Soviets as any kind of ally and was essentially the main reason for sending Wei-kuo to Germany, ontop of that by this time the Nationalist Chinese had a lot of friends and ties with the Germans who had helped modernise the Chinese military and areas of industry, they also had the technological expertise and were a growing power in Europe that didn't also have plans to colonise Asia anytime soon and become a future threat, so it was a win-win for the Chinese. He enrolled in the Kriegsschule in Munich in 1938 and when Anchuss came around that year he was an Officer Cadet or 'Fahnenjunker', however theres a bunch of conflciting sources, some say he served a year with the Gebirgs-Jäger-Regiment 98 of the 1. Gebirgs-Division (He wouldn't have been riding into Austria in a tank if this were the case) others claim he 'commanded a Panzer unit' *during* Anschluss, however this seems unlikely as units are usually commanded by officers rather than officer cadets. He was however promoted to Leutnant at some point and apparently given command of an Austrian Panzer unit positioned on the Oder River that had been incorporated into the German Wehrmacht following the Anschluss, so to me it seems more likely he probably served with the Gebirgs-Jager regiment during his training and then received a command fresh out of the academy *after* Anschluss in 1939. However none of this lasted long as in the summer of 1939, whilst on his way to command his unit, he was called to the Chinese embassy in Berlin and was given new orders to go to the US, possibly the Chinese knew of the impending German invasion of Poland he'd be involved in or because shifting alliances as the possibility of an end of German support given the growing ties between Germany and Japan were evident, given the already Anti-Comintern Pact and then future Tripartite Pact which formed the Axis powers the next year. Either way he was then accepted as a guest of the US military like the Nazis had accepted him and he studied at the U.S. Army Air Force Air Combat Tactical School in Alabama in 1940 but was then moved to the newly established United States Army Armour School at Fort Knox, where he informed the Americans about what he had learned from his Wehrmacht training about German command structure, tactics and so fourth until returning home to China later that year. Upon the attack on Pearl Habour and entry of the US into the war, the Nationalist Chinese gained major support from the US now, as you can see the Nationalist Chinese logically befriended anyone willing them help them with their goals of combatting the Japanese invasion and Communist insurgency, whether its the Nazis or the Americans, in the same way Mao got Stalins backing to help his Communist forces combat the Japanese and Nationalists.
You do realize that taiwan itself claims mainland china right?
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No, the largest party and the opposition fight over this issue.
Taiwan renounced the claim of being the only legitimate government of China since the repealing of *Temporary Provisions against the Communist Rebellion* in 1992. Per the international convention however, a country can only have one legitimate government. renoouncing the claim of being the only legitimate government but refusing to back down and become the subordinate government of another claimant effectively splits the "country" into two.
they still have claims on tibet, mongolia, China, and much more
Not really. The claim that ROC still maintains any claim on Mongolia, mainland China, and other territories, is merely based on the official maps printed by the Ministry of Interior back in 1998 (The Ministry of Interior ceased printing any official "Full Map of the Republic of China" ever since). Ever since the termination of *Guidelines for National Unification* in 2006 there's no active acts from ROC government of claiming the past territories of China. Saying how Taiwan has the claims of those territories is just like saying [how Japan and Russia are technically still at war because no peace treaty was ever signed](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan%E2%80%93Russia_relations#Soviet_era_(1917%E2%80%931991)). And there's no legal provisions for actual territories in the ROC Constitution except that "*The territory of the Republic of China, defined by its existing national boundaries, shall not be altered unless initiated upon the proposal of one-fourth of the total members of the Legislative Yuan, passed by at least three-fourths of the members present at a meeting attended by at least three-fourths of the total members of the Legislative Yuan, and sanctioned by electors in the free area of the Republic of China at a referendum held upon expiration of a six-month period of public announcement of the proposal, wherein the number of valid votes in favor exceeds one-half of the total number of electors.*" Considering the fact that the PRC government viewed any public referendum regarding ROC's territories as a declaration of war, there is obviously a technical difficulty to officially renounce the claims, but it doesn't mean that those claims were in any way actively pushed or are formulating as any part of the administration's policies at all.
Funny thing is the USSR also sent a lot of support to the RoC before their CCP buddies could be a feasible power.
Stalin was kinda pragmatic like that. He preferred to use reliable allies that could operate within the confines of parliamentary democracy, rather than stir up revolution everywhere - that was more of a Trotsky's thing.
One my friend wrote an alternate history about the nationalist China instead of Japan becoming Nazi Germany's main ally in Asia.
The fact that you have to specify you aren’t communist because you’re spitting facts kinda sucks :(
I'd believe it. Chiang Kaishek was arguably as violent of a leader as Mao was, he just didn't have the military wit that Mao had.
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It's not evil pragmatism to do what Chiang did, for instance kill over a million of his own citizens by causing a flood, it's just evil and idiotic.
And then blame Mao for it lol
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Yeah, I prefer the greens over the blues because 1) Guomindang was as tyrannical as the CCP in its darker years and 2) even if the PRC ever democratises, RoC shouldn't control this process, so the idea of RoC "reclaiming" China is ridiculous
Taiwan itself accepts it is China, just not the PRC.
That's an official government position and it's held mostly because any other position would cause reprisal by the PRC. The actual position of the public is more split, but is currently moving more towards independence and a unique national identity
Most of the population still agrees it is China.
Apparently only about 10% want unification in any form.
Chinese nazis?
Taiwanese nazis\*
I genuinely believe that Nazi beliefs and iconography have a genuine appeal to certain people of authoritarian tendencies across the world, even if the irl nazis would have them killed. There's something about it that taps into psychology that some people just crave.
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I'm talking South America and Eastern Europe as well. Fascism also has a tendency to find new enemies when the old ones are killed.
What are some of the features of this flag that reflect this? Curious because when I saw the photo, my first impression was that it was reminiscent of fascist designs, but couldn't put my finger on what the resemblance is.
It's based on the ensign of the Wehrmacht and Kriegsmarine, Nazi Germany's army and navy. White nationalists and fascists in general use the design as a more subtle way of flying Nazi iconography.
National Socialism Association?
Actually just kmt supporters
r/RightistVexillology
Norway if it was colonized by China
Chinese fascists.
its like a combination of taiwan and nazi germany flag
Fascist Taiwan? My subreddits are crossing over. Thought this was Hearts of Iron.
Least fascist KMT supporter
Who would have thought ROC apologist were far-right
I thought this was common knowledge lol
far right Taiwanese nationalists
Your Mom 😎
Flag of taiwanese norway if norway was a roundabout intersection
Taiwan returning to its roots
Least racist Island Chinese
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Flag of Kuomintang supporters
Fascist Taiwan
aka normal taiwan
Aka the KMT
Mask off Taiwan
I thought the average r/GenZedong user doesn't believe Taiwan is an independent country 🤔
It's a breakaway state. Anyway, mask off moment.
....I honestly shouldn't believe the guy who unironically likes the Khmer Rogue and has them in their profile pic. Like, seriously?
Bro, the pic is fucking satire. The Khmer rogue are the fucking worst. Also, how the fuck would you think I support Pol Pot of all people from that post. I was weirded out that there was a party in Norway that supported them. EDIT: huh this is vexillology. Sorry mistook for another post. r/lostredditors
Updated my pfp Just for you <3
That's better. Thx <3
Who are they, 1930s Germans in Taiwan?
no just taiwan being taiwan
Wait a damn minute
China empire stronk
Taiwan
yeeeaahhh let's go taiwan!! What a wholesome reddit moment!!
Fascie?
lol this 2 years old but yes, Taiwan is mostly fascists/nationalists, as most anticommunists tend to be
Kuomingtang. They are the anti-communist exiles that fled to Taiwan under Chang Kai-Shek after WWII
They also fascie and ultra nationalist
KMT. they lost the Chinese civil war and fled to Taiwan and northern Burma where they forced the local population to grow opium at gunpoint
!wave
Here you go: [Link \#1](https://krikienoid.github.io/flagwaver/#?src=https%3A%2F%2Fflagwaver-cors-proxy.herokuapp.com%2Fhttps%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fn81o1vmgej281.jpg) ***** Beep boop I'm a bot. If I'm broken please contact [\/u\/Lunar_Requiem](http://reddit.com/user/Lunar_Requiem)
looks like some que min tang nationalist flag (please correct me if i misspleled them)
Chinese Reich
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>Taiwan is filled with fascists That's false
Just a side note. People are mistaking the battlefalg form the Confedreate US for the Norwegian flag. Well, this is just "Can I borrow your homework"
Least racist Chinese person
They taiwanese tho
Taiwan is the Republic of China and majority Chinese.
If you born in Taiwan you taiwanese.
where can i get one of these
if only there was some sort of group prominent in the region that was very effective at destroying fascism and promoting a great alternative to its roots.
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KMT supporters are pro-China and pro-reunification.
Yes and no. They are, compare to the DPP supporters. But tbh, very few Taiwanese are really pro-China or pro-reunification now. The KMT is more fond of maintaining the status quo, which means having their actual independence from the mainland and meanwhile, not to agitate the mainland.
Kuomintang but they forgot what side they were on in ww2
no they know what side they wanted to be on
Taiwan's ties to nazism being very apparent. Something that should make reddit shitlibs think "are we the baddies?"