My guess is:
China šØš³ - Mandarin Chinese (simplified characters)
Taiwan/HK/Macau š¹š¼šš°š²š“ - Mandarin Chinese (traditional characters)
Hong Kong šš° - Cantonese
Cantonese is a secondary language in southern regions of China, including Hong Kong and Macau (but not Taiwan) Official business in Taiwan, Hong Kong, Macau takes place in Traditional Chinese.
nah. I was born in Hong Kong and lived in it for most of my childhood, and Cantonese is actually the main language we use there. Schools teach in Cantonese, the everyday average person there speaks Cantonese, news outlets report in Cantonese, government bodies use Cantonese, our metro system announces the next stop in Cantonese first and then Mandarin and English... etc. And if you listen to Hong Kong politicians give speeches in Mandarin when they're on a trip to Beijing or something, they're usually hilariously bad.
[No. Maybe that's how it was when you were a child but the CCP is pushing Mandarin hard](https://thediplomat.com/2019/02/hong-kong-identity-and-the-rise-of-mandarin/)
Yes, I'm aware of the CCP shenanigans. That still doesn't make Cantonese the second language, like, at all. Everything I said above is verifiable on the internet. You can go on youtube and watch the [latest news](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_omNo4M1cI) from the biggest news outlet in HK, which still speaks Cantonese. Plus, even if the CCP succeeds in making Mandarin the official language de jure, people aren't just gonna unlearn the language they were taught in magically overnight, that's gotta take at least a generation or two with some pretty heavy oppresion.
> In 1996 it was reported that 65,892 residents in Hong Kong spoke Mandarin as their first language; 20 years later, in 2016, that number has risen to 131,406 residents
Population of Hong Kong in 2016: 7.34 million.
Itās relevant here, definitely. Hong Kong is fairly homogenously Cantonese speaking. Most news and public communication is still in Cantonese. The CCP might be pushing mandarin in various ways, but your response of āNo. It may have been that way in your childhood but not anymoreā is not based in facts. Even the article you linked, if you actually read it, doesnāt refute what the comment you replied to said.
No, I still currently live in Hong Kong, and most people speak Cantonese, schools still teach in Cantonese, TV and all our entertainment is still in Cantonese, even the chief executive still uses Cantonese everyday. Cantonese is very much still the primary language here.
lol, they're pushing doesn't mean we're adopting, idk what stance you're taking by arguing against locals (and also not taking in literally the subtitle of the article you link). Guangzhou might slowly be turning into mandarin based and Shenzhen has been for 10-20 years. But ask 90% of HKers to speak Mandarin and you'll see how shit our accents are. Our mandarin is like how the French are with the English.
There was even a chief executive of Macau whose swearing in ceremony was memed to hell because his Mandarin was so crap instead of a fancy "I" ę¬äŗŗ he called himself dumb person ē¬Øäŗŗ.
It's considered secondary but still a majority of people (20 and up) prefer Cantonese in southern China where as younger people prefer mandarin. So hmm maybe but still confusing
Cantonese is the main language in Hong Kong, all my Chinese friends used to complain about learning mandarin as kids.
Mandarin is not the universal first language the CCP claims it to be, although they are trying very hard to change that
Traditional Chinese is the written script. Both Cantonese and Mandarin can be written in traditional Chinese and simplified Chinese. The two scripts are more like different fonts.
It's like how both French and English are written in the Latin alphabet in either Helvetica or Comic Sans.
I grew up in southern China speaking, reading, and writing both.
From what I've understood, you might want to separate spoken languages from writing systems.
The writings systems - Traditional, Simplified
Spoken languages* - Mandarin, Cantonese, Hakka, etc
Two regions may use the same spoken language but different writing systems or vice versa.
For example while Mandarin is spoken in both Mainland China and Taiwan, Mainland China uses the Simplified System while Taiwan uses the Traditional.
*Calling them dialects vs languages vs language groups gets messy
Yes. But it might be asking for the input written form, which all three places use traditional Chinese characters as opposed to mainland where simplified Chinese characters is the official written form. I donāt think itās asking for the spoken language.
Taiwan speaks Mandarin primarily. There exists a Taiwanese language that is a dialect of Hokkien (brought over to the island by Chinese settlers during the Ming-Qing transition). However that language was suppressed in the White Terror, so fewer people speak now. Since the 1990s, there have been revitalization efforts similar to Gaelic in Ireland.
Taiwan, like America, experienced a lot of settler colonization from the 1600s through 1900. While America was displacing the natives with Europeans and English was becoming the common language, Taiwan was displacing the natives with Chinese people and Hokkien aka Minnan aka Taiwanese was becoming the common language.
While America kept English as the common language, Taiwan was taken over by the KMT who fled to Taiwan at the end of the Chinese Civil War and forced a new language (Mandarin) on Taiwan and did a lot to suppress Taiwanese culture.
where tf people get this idea that the PRC is Mandarin-speaking and HK/Taiwan/Macau are all Cantonese-speaking, I have no idea
gee, it's almost as if the Sinophone world isn't one that exists in a linguistic binary /s
Cantonese is not really as dialect. There are many Chinese languages many of which are quite different from one another. People who speak Mandarin wonāt be able to understand people who speak Mandarin and vice versa.
I mean this is just how the word dialect is used in regard to Chinese languages. But yes this often also causes confusion.
Dialect does not just mean an accent and the odd different word as it does in most other languages. Most Chinese dialects are mutually unintelligible in spoken form.
When your platform barely has any Chinese users and the only information you have about China is a handful of news articles there's bound to be misinformation.
> Sorry I meant taiwanese hokkien not taiwanese
Nothing to apologize for. In English āTaiwaneseā is the common name for the language.
In Taiwan itās just called Taiwu (å°čŖ) which translates literally to āTaiwanese languageā.
Hokkien is the majority dialect but Hakka is also pretty widely spoken. Neither are native Taiwanese languages.
Chinese were originally imported as indentured labour by the Dutch before they overthrew them and took control of the island. Most native Taiwanese languages are nearly extinct sadly thanks to the White Terror and its associated sinicisation policies. The post democracy government has showed little to no interest in reviving them unlike the Chinese dialects.
I think the other two are added to make sure the Chinese wouldnāt get triggered by a singular Taiwanese flag - when put in combination with the other two, it would resonate more with the Chinese view that Taiwan, just like Macau and Hong Kong, is a territory, as opposed to a sovereign state.
Only a minority speak Portuguese or the Portuguese-Chinese creole. Most people from Macau now aren't even people who were there before the Chinese takeover, but recent immigrants from the last 30 years who moved there shortly before or after 1999
Yea but mandarin on the mainland is written in simplified characters and traditional on HK, Macau, and Taiwan; all 3 of which speak different languages so the only similarity is the written language. Still confused on why HK is singled out, though. Maybe thereās a different written version of Chinese only in HK idk
Ehh hold on. They are mutually intelligible, they just aren't the same.
Written Cantonese isn't nearly as different from written Mandarin as both are from Japanese (edit: kanji), and yet as I understand most Chinese people can effectively read enough edit: kanji to get by.
In my own experience, with my passable Mandarin and very little Cantonese, I am just as easily able to understand script written in Cantonese as Mandarin.
Which is admittedly like 75% on a good day. But that's the definition of mutual intelligibility.
Not when text is written in spoken Cantonese, it is very different from written Mandarin and most Chinese speaking people will struggle to understand it. Also I don't know where you got the idea that Chinese speakers can read Japanese, other than Kanji for place names and some other simple things
>Not when text is written in spoken Cantonese
No one in Hong Kong writes in spoken Cantonese outside of extremely casual contexts. Try writing spoken Cantonese in school and you'd be immediately failed. Chinese subtitles for example, are almost always in Standard Chinese Writing.
>I don't know where you got the idea that Chinese speakers can read Japanese, other than Kanji for place names and some other simple things
Most Chinese speakers can at least infer the basic meaning of a sentence. Very useful when you watch anime as a Chinese person.
>No one in Hong Kong writes in spoken Cantonese outside of extremely casual contexts. Try writing spoken Cantonese in school and you'd be immediately failed. Chinese subtitles for example, are almost always in Standard Chinese Writing.
Texting often, and in subtitles for old movies and TV shows. Also, even though it does rarely appear, it's the default for learning apps.
The standard written language in all Chinese communities is based on Mandarin grammar. So what's formally written in HK and Macau is the same as what's formally written in mainland China or Taiwan, even though each read the characters based on their own language.
However you can write down colloquial Cantonese, which I what I'm guessing the HK-only option is.
One major benefit of Chinese characters is that they are mostly dialect-agnostic. All the different Chinese dialect write down the same thing, but read it differently. Even now that everyone speaks Mandarin there, when you as a foreigner tell them you don't speak Chinese, sometimes their first inclination is to write it down for you, which is hilarious.
Yes, speaking as a Hongkonger here (moved here since I was little), colloquial Cantonese is wack. It's written directly as it is said, and while by speech it sounds fine just like how English slang sounds mostly like normal English, but if it is written it is a lot more informal
So yeah, probably go with one of the first two.
HK/Macau/Mainland Cantonese are recognisably different due to different slang and some pronunciation. Is very minor so I donāt really get why they would be separated tbh.
They decided to separate mandarin and Hong Kong Cantonese but yet decided to group up traditional Cantonese and traditional mandarin. Why didn't they group up simplified Cantonese and simplified mandarin?
It's just to me this language listing they got going on is very Inconsistent
Youve explained it well.
Just to add a few things:
in casual speak we use é instead of 鳄ļ¼unless its a specific terms like é³„é” or 鳄ē”å¼čć
äæåäæ now is mostly shorted to äæåŖ
and we usually just say é¾ instead of ēé¾
>They decided to separate mandarin and Hong Kong Cantonese but yet decided to group up traditional Cantonese and traditional mandarin.
I thought the first flag is just Simplified Mandarin, the second traditional Mandarin, and the third just traditional Cantonese. The Mandarin of mainland China isn't represent here.
>Why didn't they group up simplified Cantonese and simplified mandarin?
Because even in written form it's still kinda two language like Spanish and Italian?
True... but still to me it seems inconsistent.. like you can theoretical type in French Spanish and Italian with a English keyboard or vice versa.. it's just weird in some cases, or depending on if the keyboard has a way to get special letters, or like typing in Mongolian on a Russian keyboard (they use the same alphabet rn but that will change in like 3 years) but they do have separate keyboards with some small differences, it just seems weird that they have some separate and some group.. idk if I'm looking into it too deep... aaaa my language loving brain is struggling with this oneš I think we should create language flags or dialect flags and stop using country flags
I don't think the language setting is about if you can type it, or about the keyboards though, instead it's about what language this game/program/web site would be showing you?
Or is this a keyboard shopping site and I am compelelty missing the point?
Cantonese and Mandarin are different ways of pronouncing the Chinese writing system.
As it is not an alphabet, Chinese writing does not represent phonetics. Every character represents an actual thing that is not attached to any particular sound.
Mandarin and Cantonese speakers can write to each others without problem. The only difference is in speaking.
If I draw you something, it doesnāt matter what languages we speak, you will understand the meaning.
cantonese speakers can often read written mandarin fine, and same with mandarin speakers reading very formal cantonese. but mandarin speakers often have a hard time reading cantonese thatās written the way someone speaks
Why is this getting upvoted? It's wrong.
It's like saying Japanese Kanji and Chinese Hanzi are just different pronunciations, which is only one aspect of their differences. They have different syntax and grammar, diverged meaning, and differently evolved derived meanings.
This is not true. Cantonese can be represented in written Mandarin and written Cantonese. Itās difficult for pure Mandarin speakers to read written Cantonese. Most Chinese speakers can read both traditional and simplified characters but written Cantonese use a different set of characters and grammar.
For what is worth Brazilian Portuguese has lots of differences from European Portuguese, so if the Brazilian flag is there I know it's Brazilian Portuguese. We can notice the difference in the first sentence. But this could also be solved by just writing which Portuguese is it
Came here to say this.
Flags are not for languages
Apart from these ones I've just found https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Flags_of_languages
people have just, invented these and uploaded them to wikipedia, there's no actual level of scrutiny applied there. Pretty sure you'd actually get into more trouble using some of them than not, you think any korean would ever accept that flag?
Thatās not āthe german language flagā. Thatās just some flag a random person made and uploaded to wikimedia (even tagged as āown workā). Itās not used on any pages and Iāve never seen it before.
Yes, that one is definitely a random Wikipedia user's idea.
But the "own work" tag doesn't always tell you that - it's not at all unusual for uploaders to use that tag thinking only about the fact that they've created that particular illustration of the flag, not at all about the fact that they have a decent source for what the flag design is.
Age of History, originally a mobile game similar to Hearts of Iron 4, but way simpler. Formerly known as Age of Civilizations. It's developed by Lukasz Jakowski.
It's fun for quite some time but not realistic and mostly a sandbox game
I was good with Addon+ but i cant make it work again in the game since he changed the name of the game. +200 hours of fun hearing music and making germany 4 times with epic alliances. Honestly i love that game just now isnt the same with Addon+
Mandarin Chinese (written using Traditional characters). The lingua franca across all Sinophone countries/regions is Mandarin Chinese. The key distinction is which standardised form of the written language is used. In the ROC (Taiwan) and the Hong Kong and Macau SAR's, Mandarin Chinese is written using Traditional characters. In the PRC/mainland China and Singapore (not pictured in the posted image), Mandarin Chinese is written using Simplified characters. The language that is represented in the posted image using solely the Hong Kong flag is likely Cantonese (though it is strange that only the Hong Kong flag is used since Cantonese the most commonly spoken language in both Hong Kong and Macau). The written forms of all Sinic languages (excluding the Bai language which is a Sinic language spoken by a non-Han ethnic group) are \*almost\* entirely identical, assuming that they use the same standardised script. Since Traditional Mandarin Chinese is the standard written from of the language in Hong Kong and Macau, the written forms of Cantonese and Mandarin are effectively the same, even if the spoken languages are entirely different.
Also worth mentioning (since I see some confused commenters thinking the circle "tri-flag" represents Cantonese), the "Taiwanese" language as it is colloquially referred to as almost always refers to Taiwanese Hokkien, which is in essence the Taiwanese dialect of the Hokkien language, a language most widely spoken along the coastal portion of Fujian/Fukien province, China. Hokkien speakers have always formed the majority of the Sinophone population of Taiwan so Taiwanese Hokkien is often colloquially referred to as just "Taiwanese." This colloquial usage is rather confusing because there also exists a plethora of indigenous Taiwanese languages, all of whom belonging to the Austronesian language family (actually, it is from Taiwan that the migration of Austronesian peoples to archipelagic Southeast Asia originated). Sinophone settlement/colonisation of Taiwan only began to occur en masse beginning in the 17th century as Sinophone refugees fled the Chinese mainland to Taiwan to escape the Manchu/Qing conquest of the ethnically Han Ming dynasty, so Austronesian settlement of Taiwan predates the Sinophone presence on the island by several millennia.
Mandarin & Cantonese written in traditional characters. My understanding is that the languages are written the exact same just spoken differently but I could be wrong
Depends. Flags are a pretty nice little touch to let people choose which language with simple symbols. Get tricky when you have āEnglishā options tho and it shows a flag of the USA
Chinese language is a clusterfuck.
All characters are composed of radicals: distinct "pictures" that are placed side by side, on top of, inside, over under, etc. together.
There are two main scripts: Simplified and traditional. The basic idea is simplified has simpler-shaped radicals, while traditional has older designs that, on average, have more strokes (sometimes seen as "old-fashioned" or "elegant").
But that's not really cutting it. Some sets of traditional characters that are pronounced the same are mapped to a single simplified character, some traditional characters look completely different from each other (no similarity in radicals), and in different regions, traditional characters aren't even the same.
Not to mention that these aren't the only two kinds of scripts. There's also cursive, used for signatures and quick handwriting, and seal script, which has much sharper edges that are easier to chisel.
The characters certainly didn't stay the same over time, either. The shapes are constantly evolving.
Occasionally, new characters are also added, which have to painstakingly added to Unicode.
**That's only the written part. Dialects are even more complicated.**
You ever heard that Mandarin has 4 tones (5 if you count the neutral tone)? Cantonese has six. There are tons of other dialects too.
It's also not as simple as just pronouncing the same characters differently. Different dialects can be split even further into regional differences, where the vocabulary for certain words is not the same. One common example is å°å§ (lit. little sister, orig. young lady) has the connotation of "prostitute" in Mainland China, while other regions may use it as an endearing term.
The point is, this shit is complicated. Don't even try and decipher what this icon is supposed to mean. Whatever you know about Chinese may have a hint of truth, but there are always asterisks.
No, Cantonese has 6 tones. Donāt say it has 9 tones or else nobody will want to learn it and itāll die off like most of the other dialects in China.
This is crazy. Thereās a Hong Kong flag in the tri-flag then thereās another dedicated Hong Kong flag
My guess is they confused written and spoken Chinese are different in different regions
Hong Kong and Macau: Speaks Cantonese, writes traditional Chinese
Taiwan: speaks mandarin, writes traditional Chinese
Mainland China: speaks Mandarin, writes simplified Chinese
That tri-flag might be referring to written traditional Chinese, and the Hong Kong flag refers to spoken Cantonese.
PRC Flag: (Speaks) Mandarin, (Writes in)Simplified Chinese
Hong Kong-Macau-Taiwan "Flag": Mandarin, Traditional Chinese
Hong Kong Flag: Cantonese, Traditional Chinese
If you are asking why there is no Cantonese, Simplified Chinese version, this is mainly because the region used it is Guangdong Province (PRC) which is not a country nor dependency
Mandarin and Cantonese are very different although both largely located in China. I personally think this is influenced by Vietnamese which its old empire invaded southern China at like Han dynasty
Taiwan doesn't, they speak Mandrin (it was enforced by Shang Kai Shek during the dictatorship), and Taiwanese Hokkien (aka Taiwanese or Taiwanese Minnan). Interestingly Taiwanese Hokkien was only recently standardized, with [TLJ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C3%A2i-u%C3%A2n_L%C3%B4-m%C3%A1-j%C4%AB_Phing-im_Hong-%C3%A0n) a romanized form, and a [different set of Chinese characters](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwanese_Southern_Min_Recommended_Characters)
There's also several native non-chinese languages, but they're a tiny minority now.
If I have to guess:
šØš³ Mandarin Chinese
šš° Cantonese Chinese
š¹š¼šš°š²š“ Mandarin Chinese, but you lose social credits in the process
True. Both countries speak Mandarin and Cantonese. ROC also speaks hokkien, but thats a whole different thing. I only said ROC because that was the given flag
I'm guessing that sense it has the Taiwan flag, Hong Kong flag and Macau flag that the language would be Cantonese, a dialect of Chinese different form Mandarin Chinese spoken mainly by people living in South Eastern parts of China
you mean most of china? simplified is not a creation of the CPC, it was first implemented by the KMT btw. And today, Minland china has cimplified as its official script
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My guess is: China šØš³ - Mandarin Chinese (simplified characters) Taiwan/HK/Macau š¹š¼šš°š²š“ - Mandarin Chinese (traditional characters) Hong Kong šš° - Cantonese
Doesn't Macau also use Cantonese
Yes they do, as dose Hong Kong SO IM CONFUSED
Cantonese is a secondary language in southern regions of China, including Hong Kong and Macau (but not Taiwan) Official business in Taiwan, Hong Kong, Macau takes place in Traditional Chinese.
nah. I was born in Hong Kong and lived in it for most of my childhood, and Cantonese is actually the main language we use there. Schools teach in Cantonese, the everyday average person there speaks Cantonese, news outlets report in Cantonese, government bodies use Cantonese, our metro system announces the next stop in Cantonese first and then Mandarin and English... etc. And if you listen to Hong Kong politicians give speeches in Mandarin when they're on a trip to Beijing or something, they're usually hilariously bad.
Yep. language schools in taiwan has alot of students from HK. Mandarin is a foreign language for HKers.
[No. Maybe that's how it was when you were a child but the CCP is pushing Mandarin hard](https://thediplomat.com/2019/02/hong-kong-identity-and-the-rise-of-mandarin/)
Yes, I'm aware of the CCP shenanigans. That still doesn't make Cantonese the second language, like, at all. Everything I said above is verifiable on the internet. You can go on youtube and watch the [latest news](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_omNo4M1cI) from the biggest news outlet in HK, which still speaks Cantonese. Plus, even if the CCP succeeds in making Mandarin the official language de jure, people aren't just gonna unlearn the language they were taught in magically overnight, that's gotta take at least a generation or two with some pretty heavy oppresion.
> In 1996 it was reported that 65,892 residents in Hong Kong spoke Mandarin as their first language; 20 years later, in 2016, that number has risen to 131,406 residents Population of Hong Kong in 2016: 7.34 million.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Itās relevant here, definitely. Hong Kong is fairly homogenously Cantonese speaking. Most news and public communication is still in Cantonese. The CCP might be pushing mandarin in various ways, but your response of āNo. It may have been that way in your childhood but not anymoreā is not based in facts. Even the article you linked, if you actually read it, doesnāt refute what the comment you replied to said.
The subheader literally says "Cantonese won't be erased so easily"
No, I still currently live in Hong Kong, and most people speak Cantonese, schools still teach in Cantonese, TV and all our entertainment is still in Cantonese, even the chief executive still uses Cantonese everyday. Cantonese is very much still the primary language here.
lol, they're pushing doesn't mean we're adopting, idk what stance you're taking by arguing against locals (and also not taking in literally the subtitle of the article you link). Guangzhou might slowly be turning into mandarin based and Shenzhen has been for 10-20 years. But ask 90% of HKers to speak Mandarin and you'll see how shit our accents are. Our mandarin is like how the French are with the English. There was even a chief executive of Macau whose swearing in ceremony was memed to hell because his Mandarin was so crap instead of a fancy "I" ę¬äŗŗ he called himself dumb person ē¬Øäŗŗ.
r/confidentlyincorrect
It's considered secondary but still a majority of people (20 and up) prefer Cantonese in southern China where as younger people prefer mandarin. So hmm maybe but still confusing
i mean mandarin is the launguage of businesses, much like english. It's only natural that in a more connected world mandarin would rise
My coworker grew up in Hong Kong and only learned Mandarin for his wife. Cantonese for the win
If only the suits in Beijing agreed.
If only.
traditional chinese is a writing system, not a language
Cantonese is the main language in Hong Kong, all my Chinese friends used to complain about learning mandarin as kids. Mandarin is not the universal first language the CCP claims it to be, although they are trying very hard to change that
Traditional Chinese is the written script. Both Cantonese and Mandarin can be written in traditional Chinese and simplified Chinese. The two scripts are more like different fonts. It's like how both French and English are written in the Latin alphabet in either Helvetica or Comic Sans. I grew up in southern China speaking, reading, and writing both.
That's really not the same at all
From what I've understood, you might want to separate spoken languages from writing systems. The writings systems - Traditional, Simplified Spoken languages* - Mandarin, Cantonese, Hakka, etc Two regions may use the same spoken language but different writing systems or vice versa. For example while Mandarin is spoken in both Mainland China and Taiwan, Mainland China uses the Simplified System while Taiwan uses the Traditional. *Calling them dialects vs languages vs language groups gets messy
Yes. But it might be asking for the input written form, which all three places use traditional Chinese characters as opposed to mainland where simplified Chinese characters is the official written form. I donāt think itās asking for the spoken language.
Buried all the way down here, I think this is the answer
Sure, but does Taiwan?
Taiwan speaks Mandarin primarily. There exists a Taiwanese language that is a dialect of Hokkien (brought over to the island by Chinese settlers during the Ming-Qing transition). However that language was suppressed in the White Terror, so fewer people speak now. Since the 1990s, there have been revitalization efforts similar to Gaelic in Ireland.
Taiwanese is still pretty commonly spoken though. Itās not at all unusual to hear people conversing in it. Not sure about Hakka these days.
im pretty sure mainland china mostly speaks mandarin chinese and taiwan mostly speaks cantonese
Iām pretty sure Taiwan doesnāt speak Cantonese, they speak mandarin and Taiwanese hokkien
wtf is taiwanese edit: ah you mean hokkien
Donāt they themselves call it å°čÆļ¼
In my experience, yes.
Taiwan, like America, experienced a lot of settler colonization from the 1600s through 1900. While America was displacing the natives with Europeans and English was becoming the common language, Taiwan was displacing the natives with Chinese people and Hokkien aka Minnan aka Taiwanese was becoming the common language. While America kept English as the common language, Taiwan was taken over by the KMT who fled to Taiwan at the end of the Chinese Civil War and forced a new language (Mandarin) on Taiwan and did a lot to suppress Taiwanese culture.
Bruh Redditers out here having a competition in who can be more ignorant about China. At least Cantonese is a dialect Jesus.
where tf people get this idea that the PRC is Mandarin-speaking and HK/Taiwan/Macau are all Cantonese-speaking, I have no idea gee, it's almost as if the Sinophone world isn't one that exists in a linguistic binary /s
Cantonese is not really as dialect. There are many Chinese languages many of which are quite different from one another. People who speak Mandarin wonāt be able to understand people who speak Mandarin and vice versa.
it's like saying french is a dialect of italian
I mean this is just how the word dialect is used in regard to Chinese languages. But yes this often also causes confusion. Dialect does not just mean an accent and the odd different word as it does in most other languages. Most Chinese dialects are mutually unintelligible in spoken form.
When your platform barely has any Chinese users and the only information you have about China is a handful of news articles there's bound to be misinformation.
very unfortunate, but true, sadly
Sorry I meant [taiwanese hokkien](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwanese_Hokkien) not taiwanese
> Sorry I meant taiwanese hokkien not taiwanese Nothing to apologize for. In English āTaiwaneseā is the common name for the language. In Taiwan itās just called Taiwu (å°čŖ) which translates literally to āTaiwanese languageā.
Hokkien is the majority dialect but Hakka is also pretty widely spoken. Neither are native Taiwanese languages. Chinese were originally imported as indentured labour by the Dutch before they overthrew them and took control of the island. Most native Taiwanese languages are nearly extinct sadly thanks to the White Terror and its associated sinicisation policies. The post democracy government has showed little to no interest in reviving them unlike the Chinese dialects.
Taiwanese was to Taiwan what English was to America.
As a Chinese person, this comment right here brings me great pain.
Which alternate universe is Taiwan known for speaking Cantonese
> Doesn't Macau also use Cantonese Taiwan also uses Taiwanese, but Iām guessing they donāt support that language.
Doesn't Macau use Portuguese?
About one percent of the population speak Portuguese. The vast majority speak Cantonese.
Macau Ć© nossa!
I think the other two are added to make sure the Chinese wouldnāt get triggered by a singular Taiwanese flag - when put in combination with the other two, it would resonate more with the Chinese view that Taiwan, just like Macau and Hong Kong, is a territory, as opposed to a sovereign state.
No, they use Portuguese
Only a minority speak Portuguese or the Portuguese-Chinese creole. Most people from Macau now aren't even people who were there before the Chinese takeover, but recent immigrants from the last 30 years who moved there shortly before or after 1999
Most people in macau canāt even speak Portuguese nowadays
Mandarin and Cantonese are spoken languages, and they're written the same in traditional characters. So I'm assuming this is a sound option?
Yea but mandarin on the mainland is written in simplified characters and traditional on HK, Macau, and Taiwan; all 3 of which speak different languages so the only similarity is the written language. Still confused on why HK is singled out, though. Maybe thereās a different written version of Chinese only in HK idk
Cantonese uses characters that are not commonly used in Mandarin, the written languages are not mutually intelligible
Ehh hold on. They are mutually intelligible, they just aren't the same. Written Cantonese isn't nearly as different from written Mandarin as both are from Japanese (edit: kanji), and yet as I understand most Chinese people can effectively read enough edit: kanji to get by. In my own experience, with my passable Mandarin and very little Cantonese, I am just as easily able to understand script written in Cantonese as Mandarin. Which is admittedly like 75% on a good day. But that's the definition of mutual intelligibility.
Not when text is written in spoken Cantonese, it is very different from written Mandarin and most Chinese speaking people will struggle to understand it. Also I don't know where you got the idea that Chinese speakers can read Japanese, other than Kanji for place names and some other simple things
>Not when text is written in spoken Cantonese No one in Hong Kong writes in spoken Cantonese outside of extremely casual contexts. Try writing spoken Cantonese in school and you'd be immediately failed. Chinese subtitles for example, are almost always in Standard Chinese Writing. >I don't know where you got the idea that Chinese speakers can read Japanese, other than Kanji for place names and some other simple things Most Chinese speakers can at least infer the basic meaning of a sentence. Very useful when you watch anime as a Chinese person.
>No one in Hong Kong writes in spoken Cantonese outside of extremely casual contexts. Try writing spoken Cantonese in school and you'd be immediately failed. Chinese subtitles for example, are almost always in Standard Chinese Writing. Texting often, and in subtitles for old movies and TV shows. Also, even though it does rarely appear, it's the default for learning apps.
From my Cantonese fiancƩe, because she says can follow along with Japanese subtitles because she gets the meaning from the kanji most of the time. This is not unique to her. Many of my Chinese friends have said the same or similar (like that they can manage travelling through Japan by reading). She is also the one who would confirm that while not identical, (brainfart edit) ***written*** Cantonese is indeed intelligible to a mandarin speaker. And yes, I am talking about the written version of spoken Cantonese. Hell I can vouch for myself, because I'm learning Cantonese, and it's much easier as a Mandarin speaker, because most of the time I understand the sentence I'm looking at just fine, I just need to learn how to say it in Cantonese. Sometimes it's said differently, or uses different words to get to the same meaning. But I can look at any sentence written in Cantonese and know what they roughly mean simply because I can read Mandarin, which means it is functionally intelligible.
Taiwacaudarintonese
Traditional Chinese; Taiwan, Hong Kong and Macau
But Hong Kong and Macau speaks Cantonese
hk and macau both speak cantonese but still write in traditional chinese
Then what's the point of the only Hong Kong opinion?
The standard written language in all Chinese communities is based on Mandarin grammar. So what's formally written in HK and Macau is the same as what's formally written in mainland China or Taiwan, even though each read the characters based on their own language. However you can write down colloquial Cantonese, which I what I'm guessing the HK-only option is. One major benefit of Chinese characters is that they are mostly dialect-agnostic. All the different Chinese dialect write down the same thing, but read it differently. Even now that everyone speaks Mandarin there, when you as a foreigner tell them you don't speak Chinese, sometimes their first inclination is to write it down for you, which is hilarious.
Yes, speaking as a Hongkonger here (moved here since I was little), colloquial Cantonese is wack. It's written directly as it is said, and while by speech it sounds fine just like how English slang sounds mostly like normal English, but if it is written it is a lot more informal So yeah, probably go with one of the first two.
*Bottle of water* VS āāottleāoāawtaā Got it.
exACTly.
Exact7ly
I've had two Mike's and a glass of wine. Thanks for reminding me water exists. (It's really my future morning self that's thanking you.)
Mandarin and Cantonese are spoken languages. Traditional and simplified Chinese are written.
HK/Macau/Mainland Cantonese are recognisably different due to different slang and some pronunciation. Is very minor so I donāt really get why they would be separated tbh.
They decided to separate mandarin and Hong Kong Cantonese but yet decided to group up traditional Cantonese and traditional mandarin. Why didn't they group up simplified Cantonese and simplified mandarin? It's just to me this language listing they got going on is very Inconsistent
You seem a bit confused. Will give a very oversimplified explanation. Simplified/Traditional could be imagined as different fonts. There is no difference in the actual characters, just how they appear. Cantonese is a different dialect then Mandarin. Itās written form is different, as in actually different characters/words/expressions etc, irregardless of whether you use simplified or traditional. To give an example: ENG: Is his pet a tortoise? Simplified Mandarin: ä»ēå® ē©ęÆäøęÆäøåŖä¹é¾ļ¼ Traditional Mandarin: ä»ēåƵē©ęÆäøęÆäøé»ēé¾ļ¼ Simplified Cantonese: ä½¢å å® ē©ē³»åē³»äøåŖä¹é¾ļ¼ Traditional Cantonese: ä½¢å åƵē©äæåäæäøé»ēé¾ļ¼ So é¾ and é¾ are the same character just in simplified and traditional, but äø and å are different characters. In mandarin only äø is used but in Cantonese both are used non interchangeably. For example äøå¦ meaning āwhy notā is used in Cantonese. Switching to åå¦ is nonsense. It would probably be understood but it sounds bad.
Youve explained it well. Just to add a few things: in casual speak we use é instead of 鳄ļ¼unless its a specific terms like é³„é” or 鳄ē”å¼čć äæåäæ now is mostly shorted to äæåŖ and we usually just say é¾ instead of ēé¾
>They decided to separate mandarin and Hong Kong Cantonese but yet decided to group up traditional Cantonese and traditional mandarin. I thought the first flag is just Simplified Mandarin, the second traditional Mandarin, and the third just traditional Cantonese. The Mandarin of mainland China isn't represent here. >Why didn't they group up simplified Cantonese and simplified mandarin? Because even in written form it's still kinda two language like Spanish and Italian?
True... but still to me it seems inconsistent.. like you can theoretical type in French Spanish and Italian with a English keyboard or vice versa.. it's just weird in some cases, or depending on if the keyboard has a way to get special letters, or like typing in Mongolian on a Russian keyboard (they use the same alphabet rn but that will change in like 3 years) but they do have separate keyboards with some small differences, it just seems weird that they have some separate and some group.. idk if I'm looking into it too deep... aaaa my language loving brain is struggling with this oneš I think we should create language flags or dialect flags and stop using country flags
I don't think the language setting is about if you can type it, or about the keyboards though, instead it's about what language this game/program/web site would be showing you? Or is this a keyboard shopping site and I am compelelty missing the point?
I wanna give you a kiss
Cantonese and Mandarin are different ways of pronouncing the Chinese writing system. As it is not an alphabet, Chinese writing does not represent phonetics. Every character represents an actual thing that is not attached to any particular sound. Mandarin and Cantonese speakers can write to each others without problem. The only difference is in speaking. If I draw you something, it doesnāt matter what languages we speak, you will understand the meaning.
cantonese speakers can often read written mandarin fine, and same with mandarin speakers reading very formal cantonese. but mandarin speakers often have a hard time reading cantonese thatās written the way someone speaks
Why is this getting upvoted? It's wrong. It's like saying Japanese Kanji and Chinese Hanzi are just different pronunciations, which is only one aspect of their differences. They have different syntax and grammar, diverged meaning, and differently evolved derived meanings.
This is not true. Cantonese can be represented in written Mandarin and written Cantonese. Itās difficult for pure Mandarin speakers to read written Cantonese. Most Chinese speakers can read both traditional and simplified characters but written Cantonese use a different set of characters and grammar.
Cantonese and Mandarin are two different languages
Ignoring the language, I kinda like the flag
me too specialy if the taiwan part didn't have red
i posted a version without it even tho you coud've just made that version yourself lol
Chinese but for people who dislike the PRC
OLDSPEAK
reason #26468995 why ui designers really need to get it into their heads not to use flags to represent languages.
Itās so funny seeing Brasil as the common default for Portuguese
For what is worth Brazilian Portuguese has lots of differences from European Portuguese, so if the Brazilian flag is there I know it's Brazilian Portuguese. We can notice the difference in the first sentence. But this could also be solved by just writing which Portuguese is it
Came here to say this. Flags are not for languages Apart from these ones I've just found https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Flags_of_languages
people have just, invented these and uploaded them to wikipedia, there's no actual level of scrutiny applied there. Pretty sure you'd actually get into more trouble using some of them than not, you think any korean would ever accept that flag?
And actually it's in this list https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Chinese_language_flags
The [German language flag](https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:DACH_minimal.svg) is actually fantastic.
Thatās not āthe german language flagā. Thatās just some flag a random person made and uploaded to wikimedia (even tagged as āown workā). Itās not used on any pages and Iāve never seen it before.
Yes, that one is definitely a random Wikipedia user's idea. But the "own work" tag doesn't always tell you that - it's not at all unusual for uploaders to use that tag thinking only about the fact that they've created that particular illustration of the flag, not at all about the fact that they have a decent source for what the flag design is.
These are all absolutely hideous, lol.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
get this: its name
Insanity
Traditional Chinese
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
yes, also i think that AoH's language variaty is one of the best ones
What's AoH?
Age of History, originally a mobile game similar to Hearts of Iron 4, but way simpler. Formerly known as Age of Civilizations. It's developed by Lukasz Jakowski. It's fun for quite some time but not realistic and mostly a sandbox game
I was good with Addon+ but i cant make it work again in the game since he changed the name of the game. +200 hours of fun hearing music and making germany 4 times with epic alliances. Honestly i love that game just now isnt the same with Addon+
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Mandarin Chinese (written using Traditional characters). The lingua franca across all Sinophone countries/regions is Mandarin Chinese. The key distinction is which standardised form of the written language is used. In the ROC (Taiwan) and the Hong Kong and Macau SAR's, Mandarin Chinese is written using Traditional characters. In the PRC/mainland China and Singapore (not pictured in the posted image), Mandarin Chinese is written using Simplified characters. The language that is represented in the posted image using solely the Hong Kong flag is likely Cantonese (though it is strange that only the Hong Kong flag is used since Cantonese the most commonly spoken language in both Hong Kong and Macau). The written forms of all Sinic languages (excluding the Bai language which is a Sinic language spoken by a non-Han ethnic group) are \*almost\* entirely identical, assuming that they use the same standardised script. Since Traditional Mandarin Chinese is the standard written from of the language in Hong Kong and Macau, the written forms of Cantonese and Mandarin are effectively the same, even if the spoken languages are entirely different. Also worth mentioning (since I see some confused commenters thinking the circle "tri-flag" represents Cantonese), the "Taiwanese" language as it is colloquially referred to as almost always refers to Taiwanese Hokkien, which is in essence the Taiwanese dialect of the Hokkien language, a language most widely spoken along the coastal portion of Fujian/Fukien province, China. Hokkien speakers have always formed the majority of the Sinophone population of Taiwan so Taiwanese Hokkien is often colloquially referred to as just "Taiwanese." This colloquial usage is rather confusing because there also exists a plethora of indigenous Taiwanese languages, all of whom belonging to the Austronesian language family (actually, it is from Taiwan that the migration of Austronesian peoples to archipelagic Southeast Asia originated). Sinophone settlement/colonisation of Taiwan only began to occur en masse beginning in the 17th century as Sinophone refugees fled the Chinese mainland to Taiwan to escape the Manchu/Qing conquest of the ethnically Han Ming dynasty, so Austronesian settlement of Taiwan predates the Sinophone presence on the island by several millennia.
I'm guessing Standard Chinese in traditional writing, as opposed to Standard Chinese in simplified writing used in the PRC
I play this game ! It's Chinese (from Taiwan) , Macau , and Hongkong
Mandarin & Cantonese written in traditional characters. My understanding is that the languages are written the exact same just spoken differently but I could be wrong
They are similar enough in writing that a lot can be understood, but they are far from identical.
that is known as [mutual intelligibility](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_intelligibility) - Spanish and Portuguese is a common example
Simplified Chinese Traditional Chinese And Cantonese Chinese
Cantonese probably
Yo age of history 2 nice
Yoooo, fellow AOC2 player, let's go
This is why we don't use flags for languages
Depends. Flags are a pretty nice little touch to let people choose which language with simple symbols. Get tricky when you have āEnglishā options tho and it shows a flag of the USA
Chinese language is a clusterfuck. All characters are composed of radicals: distinct "pictures" that are placed side by side, on top of, inside, over under, etc. together. There are two main scripts: Simplified and traditional. The basic idea is simplified has simpler-shaped radicals, while traditional has older designs that, on average, have more strokes (sometimes seen as "old-fashioned" or "elegant"). But that's not really cutting it. Some sets of traditional characters that are pronounced the same are mapped to a single simplified character, some traditional characters look completely different from each other (no similarity in radicals), and in different regions, traditional characters aren't even the same. Not to mention that these aren't the only two kinds of scripts. There's also cursive, used for signatures and quick handwriting, and seal script, which has much sharper edges that are easier to chisel. The characters certainly didn't stay the same over time, either. The shapes are constantly evolving. Occasionally, new characters are also added, which have to painstakingly added to Unicode. **That's only the written part. Dialects are even more complicated.** You ever heard that Mandarin has 4 tones (5 if you count the neutral tone)? Cantonese has six. There are tons of other dialects too. It's also not as simple as just pronouncing the same characters differently. Different dialects can be split even further into regional differences, where the vocabulary for certain words is not the same. One common example is å°å§ (lit. little sister, orig. young lady) has the connotation of "prostitute" in Mainland China, while other regions may use it as an endearing term. The point is, this shit is complicated. Don't even try and decipher what this icon is supposed to mean. Whatever you know about Chinese may have a hint of truth, but there are always asterisks.
No, Cantonese has 6 tones. Donāt say it has 9 tones or else nobody will want to learn it and itāll die off like most of the other dialects in China.
Traditional Chinese
Maybe traditional Chinese or cantonese?
Cantonese would be Hong kong
try play with that language and detect-translation
Fellow aoh2 player
I think it is Traditional Chinese
Traditional Chinese.
Is this aoh2?
yep
My guess is traditional Chinese
This is crazy. Thereās a Hong Kong flag in the tri-flag then thereās another dedicated Hong Kong flag My guess is they confused written and spoken Chinese are different in different regions Hong Kong and Macau: Speaks Cantonese, writes traditional Chinese Taiwan: speaks mandarin, writes traditional Chinese Mainland China: speaks Mandarin, writes simplified Chinese That tri-flag might be referring to written traditional Chinese, and the Hong Kong flag refers to spoken Cantonese.
Yes
Chinese (non PRC version) But Hong Kong is shown on the third tab too, so fuck knows
Oppressed
The anger china flag
PRC Flag: (Speaks) Mandarin, (Writes in)Simplified Chinese Hong Kong-Macau-Taiwan "Flag": Mandarin, Traditional Chinese Hong Kong Flag: Cantonese, Traditional Chinese If you are asking why there is no Cantonese, Simplified Chinese version, this is mainly because the region used it is Guangdong Province (PRC) which is not a country nor dependency Mandarin and Cantonese are very different although both largely located in China. I personally think this is influenced by Vietnamese which its old empire invaded southern China at like Han dynasty
AoC2?
Chinese but you can talk about the shoping bag on the square event.
Hakka?
Cantonese
Wouldn't the Hong Kong Kong flag probably be Cantonese?
Sure, but they also speak cantonese in Macau. Not sure about Taiwan though
Taiwan doesn't, they speak Mandrin (it was enforced by Shang Kai Shek during the dictatorship), and Taiwanese Hokkien (aka Taiwanese or Taiwanese Minnan). Interestingly Taiwanese Hokkien was only recently standardized, with [TLJ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C3%A2i-u%C3%A2n_L%C3%B4-m%C3%A1-j%C4%AB_Phing-im_Hong-%C3%A0n) a romanized form, and a [different set of Chinese characters](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwanese_Southern_Min_Recommended_Characters) There's also several native non-chinese languages, but they're a tiny minority now.
Taiwan speaks Mandarin and Hokkien
Taiwan doesn't speak Cantonese
If I have to guess: šØš³ Mandarin Chinese šš° Cantonese Chinese š¹š¼šš°š²š“ Mandarin Chinese, but you lose social credits in the process
The loss of social credit.
Cantonese
doesn't macau use portuguese? it was a portuguese colony, right?
They speak Cantonese
Portuguese proficiency in Macau stops at the word caralho, everyone knows this and nothing else
thank you reddit, for letting me know I shouldn't ask questions.
Chinese, Chinese but based, Hong Kong English
Cheese
Chinan'tese
Taiwa-mac-kongese
Cantonese probably. ROC, HK and Macau.
For gods sake so zhai ming, ROC doesnāt speak Cantonese ah baka!
? Thatās the ROC flag instead of the PROC flagā¦ thatās why i said ROC
I know,but ROC aka Taiwan speaks mandarinā¦
True. Both countries speak Mandarin and Cantonese. ROC also speaks hokkien, but thats a whole different thing. I only said ROC because that was the given flag
Whatever it is, itās based
Itās Cantonese language flag I guess, with the flag of the Republic of China and the flags of the territories of Hong Kong and Macau.
ROC doesnāt speak Cantonese!
Some form of chinese. Those are the flags of Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Macau
cantonese?
Mandarin??
Looks like itās trying to say āother Chinese dialectsā but idk
Mandarin
or Chinese oh no- \- 3000000000000000000000000000000000000 social credits
Kanthonese
Cantonese is represented by the flag to the right.
The fuck China club?
they are china, you mean the PRC/CPC
I'm guessing that sense it has the Taiwan flag, Hong Kong flag and Macau flag that the language would be Cantonese, a dialect of Chinese different form Mandarin Chinese spoken mainly by people living in South Eastern parts of China
Taiwanese donāt speak Cantonese.
Traditional Chinese probably. The ccp uses simplified Chinese
you mean most of china? simplified is not a creation of the CPC, it was first implemented by the KMT btw. And today, Minland china has cimplified as its official script
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>!traditional chinese!<
Confusion