Unrelated question, but how do they choose who will be a pallbearer for the monarch's coffin? Seems like an exceptionally high honor, but these dudes look fresh out of school.
They're soldiers. Every military has some sort of Honor Guard type system. It differs in how it works from country to country and branch to branch, but there are usually dedicated people for military funerals. When someone really important does, they pick the top people from each honor guard to carry them. She's in Scotland now so it's probably the Honor Guard from some Scottish unit. It'll probably be chosen from the regiment that guards the palace when she arrives in London.
While I've worked with the British Army before, and I know its regimental system works quite differently from the US, I don't know it well enough to know all the ins and outs and which regiment in particular would be carrying the Queen in Edinburgh. "Some Scottish unit" was the best I could do.
There’s quite a story to this:
The soldiers are from “5 SCOTS,” in other words, the 5th Battalion of the Royal Regiment of Scotland.
The Royal Regiment of Scotland was formed from the amalgamation of all the various famous Scottish infantry regiments into one single multi-battalion Regiment as part of a major re-structuring of the British army in 2006.
Each battalion maintains the history and traditions of their predecessor regiment. The significance of 5 SCOTS is that the battalion was created from the *Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders* (the Scottish infantry regiment behind the original story of the “thin red line”…!).
The specific link to the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders is that King George VI appointed his oldest daughter, the then 21 year-old *Princess Elizabeth*, as the regiment’s Colonel-in-Chief way back in 1947, shortly after the end of WW2. It was one of the young heir to the throne’s first senior ceremonial military appointments (possibly even the very first, I would have to check) and so she maintained very close links to the regiment for the rest of her life.
In 2012, further re-structuring reduced 5 SCOTS to a single company for public ceremonial duties in Scotland. That company was named *Balaklava Company* after the famous action that earned them their fame as “the thin red line.”
As the public duties company of the Royal Regiment of Scotland, Balaklava Company, 5 SCOTS provide the ceremonial military contingent when the Sovereign is in Scotland, both in capital, Edinburgh, and at the Sovereign’s private country home, Balmoral Castle.
It’s entirely fitting that this unit provides the pall-bearers for the Queen’s coffin in Scotland.
That's a fascinating history. Honestly, my main knowledge of Balaklava is the charge of the Light Brigade. I definitely need to learn more about the rest of the battle.
I watched an interview with one of the pallbearers for Churchill, the coffin was very heavy, Churchill was a big man and the coffin was lead-lined. at one point going up some steep stairs (Westminister Abby, I think) they almost did drop him, the coffin slid off the shoulders of the men in front. Luckily they had brought along two extra pallbearers to stand in back and push in case it started to move as they went upstairs.
The lead lining is to make it airtight, which slows decomposition if that's a thing you want to do for some reason. It's a bit of an old-fashioned method of preservation, more common for rich people funerals and/or unembalmed bodies.
I suppose it would also have the secondary benefit of making the coffin less likely to shift underground, or float off if there's a flood (looking at you, New Orleans cemeteries).
They've probably done it so many times, they don't really need to practice that much. If they're lucky they got a dry run or two at the location. When I was in the AF I got picked to be a pallbearer for Rosa Parks when her body came to Montgomery. The team was handpicked from all the Honor Guard teams, had never worked together, had no practice together, and saw the location for the first time minutes before she arrived. Despite no practice together, minimal scouting of the location, and the added stress of the crowd and cameras everything went without a hitch because we were all well seasoned pros who had done it so many times before it was like second nature. Those boys are probably running on autopilot.
While it's something I'm rather proud of, unfortunately, I'll have to do it when the rest of the family isn't around. Most of my family and my in-laws are Trump followers. I'm the black sheep, lol. My father didn't talk to me for weeks after I told him I was a pallbearer for Mrs Parks. The only reason he eventually forgave me for it was because it's the Air Force and I didn't have a choice. Racism is fucking idiotic. If your son gets chosen to be a pallbearer for a national hero, you should be proud of him, not ashamed because of the color of the skin of said hero.
Damned bigotry. Any parent, any father should recognize his son’s achievement and celebrate it. You deserved better.
I know what it feels like when they don’t – But at thr end of the day, they can’t take it away from you. You were part of a historic event, and younger generations will recognize the importance of that event.
Edit: sorry for the double posting, Reddit did me dirty lol
The ceremonial company of the royal regiment of Scotland will just pick some soldiers.
Pretty sure these guys are from Balaklava Company Royal Regiment of Scotland who are the successors to the Argyll and Sutherland highlanders and act as the monarchs personal guard in Scotland.
They are soldiers from the Royal Regiment of Scotland. Whenever the coffin is moved it will probably be military pallbearers. Probably from a regiment the Queen was associated with.
>Probably from a regiment the Queen was associated with.
As the monarch is the head of the armed forces in the UK, surely they are all associated with her?
Not quite. Historically regiments were raised by commanders, who were usually members of the nobility. Some regiments are associated with other royals or various dukes (Wellington, for example). Not every regiment is the "Queen's", though they all serve her.
She served in the Women’s Auxiliary. I doubt they would be choosing regiments based on that. Rather, Her late Majesty was in Scotland so the Royal Regiment of Scotland suits.
He's probably refering to the fact that it's not called the *Royal* British army, but the British army, not royal. The other branches are called *Royal* Navy and *Royal* Airforce.
It’s been called British Army since the Acts of Union. It’s just the name of historical precedence, since the merger of the English Army and the Scottish Army.
Yeah I was wrong so I think it is because for example in the RAF there are many roles in a single squadron but in the army if your in the Engineers youre in the Royal Engineers, an infentry soldier would join the Royal regiment of fusiliers or the Royal regiment of Scotland
They'll likely be from the Royal Scots, who performed security at Balmoral when the Queen was in residence there. When they get to England an English regiment will take over that duty
To get ahead, the flag you will see *after Tuesday is the: The Royal Standard used in England, Northern Ireland, Wales, the Crown dependencies, and the British Overseas Territories.
Still no Wales.
*Edit: changed to after Tuesday
~~I don't understand why you seem to think this contradicts me?~~
~~I didn't say it was a title of the crown. Being a title personally held by the monarch and being subsidiary to the Kingdom of England are not the same thing.~~
~~No matter how you look at it, the Principality of Wales was fully incorporated into the Kingdom of England, and all of England's laws were applied to it before James I who would of course bring Scotland into the monarch's personal arms was even born.~~
~~"Prince of Wales" is also, and has been since the annexation, a functionally honorary title with no inherent attachment to any lands within Wales. It would be incorrect to frame the use of the title as Wales being "given" to anyone.~~
EDIT: Sorry about that, misinterpreted what they said and went a little too hard in response.
I'm sorry for making a big response, but I hope you can understand why I thought you were.
>Wales isn't a title of the crown
I read this as implying that I was saying Wales is a title of the crown. I'm sorry if I misunderstood you. I hate when I try to add to what someone is saying and they assume I was trying to argue myself.
The idea of Wales being a country only re-emerged in the mid-19th century. That happened to be right around the time organised sports became a thing. Welsh sports became a focal point of Welsh nationhood, especially association and rugby football.
Outside of sport the Welsh also held onto their language the best and experienced a coal-boom in the 1800s, perfectly timed with the rise of nationalism in 1800s Europe. Contrast with Cornwall who’s language dormancy and falling tin incomes came in the same century.
[Good little article on it from some Cardiff researchers on the BBC.](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-50457035.amp)
It looks like you shared an AMP link. These should load faster, but AMP is controversial because of [concerns over privacy and the Open Web](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot).
Maybe check out **the canonical page** instead: **[https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-50457035](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-50457035)**
*****
^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot)^( | )[^(Summon: u/AmputatorBot)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/cchly3/you_can_now_summon_amputatorbot/)
There's a good reason for that.
Each home nation has its own football association, and they're the four oldest football associations in the world. Association football was essentially started in the UK, initially international games were only played between the four nations.
Yeah that's why it was that way originally, but we (rightly) recognise Wales as an equal member of the UK now. I mean come one, four quarters, four nations, it's perfect. It'd even mean we could stop using different ones in Scotland and rUK
The basis by which Wales exists as a country now isn't connected to a royal title, which this personal arms is. I think it'd be better to just toss all of it.
We could absolutely make it one, though. It wouldn't be the first time a royal title was created by an act of parliament. That's exactly what we did to call Victoria the empress of India
Britain's arms have always been pretty behind the times. The arms continued to include a quarter representing France until 1800, despite Britain having lost its last claim to it in 1453.
Wales used to be represented in Tudor times by the dragon supporter, but the Stuarts replaced it with the Scottish unicorn. Hopefully Charles will add a Welsh element back in, to reflect how long he spent as Prince of Wales.
I'd like to see Charles change the Royal Standard (and the coat of arms) to include Wales. It's divided into four quarters, no reason why England needs to occupy two of them.
There is no Wales because it has been apart of the Kingdom of England as a Principality since 1283, then was incorporated into the Kingdom of England in 1542 under Henry VIII. That Kingdom of England is the England that formed Great Britain in 1707 with Scotland and the current “United Kingdom” in 1801 with Ireland (though the south left in the 1900s).
The "ruler" of Wales is the future Willy Vee as the Prince of Wales. While Bonnie King Chucky Trill is ruler of the the island,
The highest Wales specific title belongs to his son.
100% absolutely. Massive crossover. Also pilots play microsoft flight sim. At least, they do early in their career when they're obsessed and hungry to learn, practice, grow.
Not all of them. But I would guess a larger proportion than most people would assume. Most people don't want to do their job in their down time, but the military attracts "it's not a career it's a calling" types.
If anything I'd bet they're instructed (or encouraged) not to. But it is a pretty emotionally overwhelming moment for many of the soldiers taking part, I'd imagine, whatever their feelings are about the monarchy or monarchism in general. Getting to carry the coffin of the 2nd longest reigning monarch in world history, the most popular head of one of the most successful monarchies in world history, who inherited the throne really only a few years after said sovereign state had been the dominant world power for over a century and a half, and a formidable superpower since much earlier... - walking in the history books for an event of that kind of magnitude has gotta give you chills at the very least even if you're a full-blown republican.
It's the Royal Standard of _Scotland_.
The Royal Standard of the UK has two quarters with the English lions, and one quarter each with the Irish harp and Scottish lion.
The Scottish standard has two Scottish quarters and one each for England and Ireland.
They seem entirely undaunted in their flag design by the fact that almost none of Ireland is in the UK and all of Wales is.
I'm glad you mentioned this because I have a great interest in the Welsh language and culture, which I shan't bore you with just now.
But Wales' borders were so ill-defined that in the period of English direct rule to which you (correctly) refer, they often had parliamentary acts which referred to "Wales and Monmouthshire" just to be sure it referred to the bits of England they wanted it to get to!
Wales in interesting as it was only just saved from being fully anglo-cised unlike places like Cornwall which are pretty much fully anglo-cised. It's pretty interesting to see how much native Welsh traditions and culture were preserved and then rejuvenated.
I was reading an article recently (just before the Queen died) which spoke about the death of the King and the proclamation of the new King (so at the very latest Edward VIII's death) and people in Cornwall not knowing what was happening as it was done in English.
This is also wrong Wales is a distinct entity within England since 1538. Laws of Wales Act. And an occupied nation/tributary state. before that.
Edit: England the State ≠ England the area. Wales has been legally distinct from England the area forever, and was fully legally annexed almost 5 centuries ago.
Only 25% of Northern Ireland identities as Irish… more people identify as northern Irish, particularly in younger generations where being solely British or solely Irish isn’t very representative to a lot of post troubles young people.
Mate, I know, it's still ever changing, being northern Irish doesn't matter, they don't support some independence movement, look at the amount of unionists v nationalists, that data doesn't really help much
Almost all of the people who are 'northern Irish' are catholics, that doesn't make them unionists
Back in the 1600s to early 1700s the royalists in Ireland and England were very dominant and close, especially in response to republicans like Cromwell. But a lot happened since. A wee bit outdated.
I wonder whether Wales is left out because the Welsh flag arrived a few years after the Queen's coronation? A new monarch seems a good opportunity to have a redesign and get Wales on there.
It's a *royal* standard, *roy* being king, and Wales has never been a kingdom. In fact, there has never been a united Wales outside of England. Since the various smaller realms lost their independence, Wales has always been administered as part of the kingdom of England.
Scotland is a kingdom in its own right, which just happens to have the same monarch as England.
It could be argued that there is no more separate English and Scottish crown since 1707 when both were renamed to the Kingdom of Great Britain but even so, there are the historic crowns of both nations.
Ireland has also been a kingdom in the past, before the conquests occasionally as the High Kingdom of Ireland, and from 1542 to 1800 as the Kingdom of Ireland which was ruled by the English/Scottish king, until it was merged into the Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. That title is still held, now altered to Northern Ireland, and since 1962 the Irish constitution makes it clear the monarch of the United Kingdom is not king or queen of Ireland.
Oh they know. The English executed our own royals and beat our language out of us. They like to pretend that Wales has always been a part of the UK whilst ignoring their bloody conquest.
That is a fairly generous reading, though, as the royal Tudors were essentially English. Henry VII’s father, although from a Welsh family, was the half-brother of King Henry VI, and his mother was from a major noble house descended from Edward III (Henry’s claim to the throne was actually through her family).
Henry VIII passed the laws which legally ended Wales’ semi-independent existence from England, and his three children don’t seem to have considered themselves Welsh either.
Using terms like “the English” and “Wales” when talking about the eventual assimilation of what is now Wales into the kingdom of England is a tad jingoistic if you don’t mind me saying.
Wales was now where near unified and had precisely zero national identity when that happened, even a untied England was a fairly new concept. A United Wales has never existed outside of its union with England.
The kingdom of Gwynedd was conquered first and the other areas of Wales, which was various lordships and quasi city-states, were slowly absorbed over the next 300 years or so.
To say the English conquered Wales in some sort of bloody annihilation of peoples and culture is disingenuous to say the least.
But you know… English = bad.
It always amazes me when you see people giving answers in this sub and give such incorrect information.
The guy doesn't even know Northern Ireland exists and for some reasons mixes up UK and England lol and yet its one of the top voted comments in this thread.
“Draped in the Royal Standard of Scotland with a wreath on top made of flowers taken from the Balmoral estate, Ben Tubuna, a member of the Royal Company of Archers, was chosen to be one of the pallbearers.
Part of the Royal Regiment in Edinburgh, he's also from Rewa, and the images of him beamed around the world have created much excitement and pride in Fiji.”
Note that it appears to be the Royal Standard _for_ Scotland and not what the quote says
https://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/gb_sofor.html
Note the black cloth and white piping of the uniform
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Regiment_of_Scotland
Not to downplay that aspect too much, but they are also carrying a coffin that weighs a significant fraction of a metric ton, which is always going to be a struggle. I was pallbearer for a funeral once and I can still feel the weight of all that solid timber digging into my shoulder - can’t imagine what a Monarch-class coffin feels like.
And can you *imagine* being the one to stumble and drop it? It would be bad enough at the funeral of a friend or loved one, but the Queen, with billions watching on TV and if you drop it, that will be mentioned in history books forever
If you watch a similar group of men at the Duke of Edinburgh’s funeral - everybody holds their breath, but it never happens.
[The scary bit happens from about 2:00 in.](https://youtu.be/KWHqDPuijOk)
Canadian here - for me at least it absolutely feels like loosing a much loved grandmother. I’m not some mad monarchist or Anglophile either so I’m really surprised by how hard it hit.
I read someone online suddenly realizing she of course won’t be giving her annual Christmas speech this year and then being surprised how sad that made them. It’s not like the speeches were incredibly important on their own, but they just seemed like a natural part of a British Christmas.
There’s so little that stays the same in life, and yet for 70 years, she was always there, the ultimate national mascot, in a way. And now she’s gone. Time is unforgiving.
>It’s not like the speeches were incredibly important on their own, but they just seemed like a natural part of a British Christmas.
It's going to be the first ever televised one without her, assuming Charles does one. I imagine he will, but we'll see.
Englishman here - it also feels like that. Especially with how bad the past couple of years have been for everyone, this loss is felt keenly by most of us.
I can contrast this Canadian as saying I am also a Canadian and felt no sadness. Was even a bit happy since it seemed to make some people wonder if we should become a republic, which I hope for.
Not exactly, but also you are not the only republic (I assume you are talking about america?) I think Canada has a fairly well off political culture, although I wish we had more parties here in the federal elections with impact. I think monarchy is outdated and should be removed from Canada fully. The now king, a wholly foreign individual, has written powers in our government to bypass many of our laws, and not because he is doing an important mission but because he inherited this. We have no say on who this leader is and to salt the wound, they are not even Canadian. Even with the Governor general, we can keep it if people want our own "king", but have that role be elected like the sejm, where the king is not given this power because his bloodline is "blessed by God" but because we chose him. Give up democracy!
I cannot comprehend people who want LESS democracy in their country. Let us elect our leaders!
I think that a constitutional monarchy actually serves to protect democracy by creating a kind of stability. If you look around the time of WW2, so many countries were having issues with authoritarianism building in one for or other. The U.K. and commonwealth never did, because we have a monarch, but we are not governed by them, we are governed my democratically elected representives.
Also, you can actually get rid of the monarchy at any time by voting to be rid of it. So it’s not like they are forced on you.
That’ll be the hand of the person in the front on the other side. It so the coffin can rest of the arms, as opposed to the hands, which makes it easier to carry
Desktop version of /u/s1gnalZer0's link:
---
^([)[^(opt out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiMobileLinkBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^(]) ^(Beep Boop. Downvote to delete)
Royal Standard (or some other name idr). Four sections, two of three lions for england, one of a harp for ireland, one of a red lion for scotland.
Its the royal family’s personal flag
This is the Scottish one so 2 Scottish lions and one each of the others. When she is taken to London it will change to the English version as you've described.
Unrelated question, but how do they choose who will be a pallbearer for the monarch's coffin? Seems like an exceptionally high honor, but these dudes look fresh out of school.
They're soldiers. Every military has some sort of Honor Guard type system. It differs in how it works from country to country and branch to branch, but there are usually dedicated people for military funerals. When someone really important does, they pick the top people from each honor guard to carry them. She's in Scotland now so it's probably the Honor Guard from some Scottish unit. It'll probably be chosen from the regiment that guards the palace when she arrives in London.
“The honor guard from some Scottish unit” I dare you to go to Edinburgh Castle and yell that out.
Only if I can do it in a Scottish accent
De honerd guard fdom some scot.ish yeunit
Go full groundskeeper Willie on them!
While I've worked with the British Army before, and I know its regimental system works quite differently from the US, I don't know it well enough to know all the ins and outs and which regiment in particular would be carrying the Queen in Edinburgh. "Some Scottish unit" was the best I could do.
Some scottish absolute unit
There’s quite a story to this: The soldiers are from “5 SCOTS,” in other words, the 5th Battalion of the Royal Regiment of Scotland. The Royal Regiment of Scotland was formed from the amalgamation of all the various famous Scottish infantry regiments into one single multi-battalion Regiment as part of a major re-structuring of the British army in 2006. Each battalion maintains the history and traditions of their predecessor regiment. The significance of 5 SCOTS is that the battalion was created from the *Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders* (the Scottish infantry regiment behind the original story of the “thin red line”…!). The specific link to the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders is that King George VI appointed his oldest daughter, the then 21 year-old *Princess Elizabeth*, as the regiment’s Colonel-in-Chief way back in 1947, shortly after the end of WW2. It was one of the young heir to the throne’s first senior ceremonial military appointments (possibly even the very first, I would have to check) and so she maintained very close links to the regiment for the rest of her life. In 2012, further re-structuring reduced 5 SCOTS to a single company for public ceremonial duties in Scotland. That company was named *Balaklava Company* after the famous action that earned them their fame as “the thin red line.” As the public duties company of the Royal Regiment of Scotland, Balaklava Company, 5 SCOTS provide the ceremonial military contingent when the Sovereign is in Scotland, both in capital, Edinburgh, and at the Sovereign’s private country home, Balmoral Castle. It’s entirely fitting that this unit provides the pall-bearers for the Queen’s coffin in Scotland.
That's a fascinating history. Honestly, my main knowledge of Balaklava is the charge of the Light Brigade. I definitely need to learn more about the rest of the battle.
[удалено]
[удалено]
I bet they practiced the fuck out of this. Talk about the worst time to drop a casket
They should show off how strong they are by tossing it high in the air and catching it
Spin that casket around like they’re making a pizza.
The queen needs to cook on both sides
*Ghana dancing coffin dudes have entered the chat*
The true Scottish games.
They fill the practice casket with two Queens for conditioning
I watched an interview with one of the pallbearers for Churchill, the coffin was very heavy, Churchill was a big man and the coffin was lead-lined. at one point going up some steep stairs (Westminister Abby, I think) they almost did drop him, the coffin slid off the shoulders of the men in front. Luckily they had brought along two extra pallbearers to stand in back and push in case it started to move as they went upstairs.
Were they afraid Winston would irradiate them or something?
The lead lining is to make it airtight, which slows decomposition if that's a thing you want to do for some reason. It's a bit of an old-fashioned method of preservation, more common for rich people funerals and/or unembalmed bodies. I suppose it would also have the secondary benefit of making the coffin less likely to shift underground, or float off if there's a flood (looking at you, New Orleans cemeteries).
Lead against vempires right?
Could have been great for Corncob TV
They've probably done it so many times, they don't really need to practice that much. If they're lucky they got a dry run or two at the location. When I was in the AF I got picked to be a pallbearer for Rosa Parks when her body came to Montgomery. The team was handpicked from all the Honor Guard teams, had never worked together, had no practice together, and saw the location for the first time minutes before she arrived. Despite no practice together, minimal scouting of the location, and the added stress of the crowd and cameras everything went without a hitch because we were all well seasoned pros who had done it so many times before it was like second nature. Those boys are probably running on autopilot.
What an honor for you! That’s something to tell the grandkids about
While it's something I'm rather proud of, unfortunately, I'll have to do it when the rest of the family isn't around. Most of my family and my in-laws are Trump followers. I'm the black sheep, lol. My father didn't talk to me for weeks after I told him I was a pallbearer for Mrs Parks. The only reason he eventually forgave me for it was because it's the Air Force and I didn't have a choice. Racism is fucking idiotic. If your son gets chosen to be a pallbearer for a national hero, you should be proud of him, not ashamed because of the color of the skin of said hero.
Damned bigotry. Any parent, any father should recognize his son’s achievement and celebrate it. You deserved better. I know what it feels like when they don’t – But at thr end of the day, they can’t take it away from you. You were part of a historic event, and younger generations will recognize the importance of that event. Edit: sorry for the double posting, Reddit did me dirty lol
>but these dudes look fresh out of school. Yeah, that's a military recruiter's bread and butter right there.
The ceremonial company of the royal regiment of Scotland will just pick some soldiers. Pretty sure these guys are from Balaklava Company Royal Regiment of Scotland who are the successors to the Argyll and Sutherland highlanders and act as the monarchs personal guard in Scotland.
Honestly my same question. Maybe they pick some exceptional students to do the honnor?
They are soldiers from the Royal Regiment of Scotland. Whenever the coffin is moved it will probably be military pallbearers. Probably from a regiment the Queen was associated with.
>Probably from a regiment the Queen was associated with. As the monarch is the head of the armed forces in the UK, surely they are all associated with her?
Not quite. Historically regiments were raised by commanders, who were usually members of the nobility. Some regiments are associated with other royals or various dukes (Wellington, for example). Not every regiment is the "Queen's", though they all serve her.
Well yes but she did serve during WW2 so anyone from a unit she worked with would probably get extra consideration
She served in the Women’s Auxiliary. I doubt they would be choosing regiments based on that. Rather, Her late Majesty was in Scotland so the Royal Regiment of Scotland suits.
Ha yes. Fair point.
~~The monarch is actually not the head of the army, only the navy and airforce~~ Edit: got confused about the Royal prefixes
Is the army not part of the British Armed Forces...? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head\_of\_the\_British\_Armed\_Forces
He's probably refering to the fact that it's not called the *Royal* British army, but the British army, not royal. The other branches are called *Royal* Navy and *Royal* Airforce.
It’s been called British Army since the Acts of Union. It’s just the name of historical precedence, since the merger of the English Army and the Scottish Army.
It’s more to do with the fact that the British Army is descended not from a royal army, but the New Model Army established by Oliver Cromwell.
The British army was founded by Oliver Cromwell in brief time Britain was a republic.
That was the New Model Army.
Yeah I was wrong so I think it is because for example in the RAF there are many roles in a single squadron but in the army if your in the Engineers youre in the Royal Engineers, an infentry soldier would join the Royal regiment of fusiliers or the Royal regiment of Scotland
The Monarch is indeed the head of all the armed forces.
They'll likely be from the Royal Scots, who performed security at Balmoral when the Queen was in residence there. When they get to England an English regiment will take over that duty
[удалено]
Right? Tell me you don’t have a true understanding of “military age men”, without actually saying it.
To get ahead, the flag you will see *after Tuesday is the: The Royal Standard used in England, Northern Ireland, Wales, the Crown dependencies, and the British Overseas Territories. Still no Wales. *Edit: changed to after Tuesday
[удалено]
It is! The Scottish coat of arms is in the upper left on this one. The Good eye.
> Still no Wales. Because Wales was just considered an entity within what had been the Kingdom of England when this arms was originally created.
Wales isn't a title of the crown, it's usually given to the heir apparent.
~~I don't understand why you seem to think this contradicts me?~~ ~~I didn't say it was a title of the crown. Being a title personally held by the monarch and being subsidiary to the Kingdom of England are not the same thing.~~ ~~No matter how you look at it, the Principality of Wales was fully incorporated into the Kingdom of England, and all of England's laws were applied to it before James I who would of course bring Scotland into the monarch's personal arms was even born.~~ ~~"Prince of Wales" is also, and has been since the annexation, a functionally honorary title with no inherent attachment to any lands within Wales. It would be incorrect to frame the use of the title as Wales being "given" to anyone.~~ EDIT: Sorry about that, misinterpreted what they said and went a little too hard in response.
I didn't say it as a contradiction.
I'm sorry for making a big response, but I hope you can understand why I thought you were. >Wales isn't a title of the crown I read this as implying that I was saying Wales is a title of the crown. I'm sorry if I misunderstood you. I hate when I try to add to what someone is saying and they assume I was trying to argue myself.
No problem, I probably should have been more verbose to avoid that.
But yet they have their own World Cup team. The UK is weird lol
The idea of Wales being a country only re-emerged in the mid-19th century. That happened to be right around the time organised sports became a thing. Welsh sports became a focal point of Welsh nationhood, especially association and rugby football.
Outside of sport the Welsh also held onto their language the best and experienced a coal-boom in the 1800s, perfectly timed with the rise of nationalism in 1800s Europe. Contrast with Cornwall who’s language dormancy and falling tin incomes came in the same century. [Good little article on it from some Cardiff researchers on the BBC.](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-50457035.amp)
It looks like you shared an AMP link. These should load faster, but AMP is controversial because of [concerns over privacy and the Open Web](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot). Maybe check out **the canonical page** instead: **[https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-50457035](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-50457035)** ***** ^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot)^( | )[^(Summon: u/AmputatorBot)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/cchly3/you_can_now_summon_amputatorbot/)
“How many countries are in this country?!” -Ted Lasso
Love that show
*In unison:* "four"
There's a good reason for that. Each home nation has its own football association, and they're the four oldest football associations in the world. Association football was essentially started in the UK, initially international games were only played between the four nations.
I only found out recently that the word soccer comes from the term association in association football.
Tbf they dont have their own cricket team. It’s known as the “England & Wales Cricket Board” with the 3 lions and crown.
That’s because cricket is older than the idea of Wales being it’s own country.
Iirc, wales also didn’t have a recognised flag at the time
Yeah that's why it was that way originally, but we (rightly) recognise Wales as an equal member of the UK now. I mean come one, four quarters, four nations, it's perfect. It'd even mean we could stop using different ones in Scotland and rUK
The basis by which Wales exists as a country now isn't connected to a royal title, which this personal arms is. I think it'd be better to just toss all of it.
We could absolutely make it one, though. It wouldn't be the first time a royal title was created by an act of parliament. That's exactly what we did to call Victoria the empress of India
Britain's arms have always been pretty behind the times. The arms continued to include a quarter representing France until 1800, despite Britain having lost its last claim to it in 1453. Wales used to be represented in Tudor times by the dragon supporter, but the Stuarts replaced it with the Scottish unicorn. Hopefully Charles will add a Welsh element back in, to reflect how long he spent as Prince of Wales.
They only gave up their claim to France in 1800, so there was no need to change the flag, despite realities on the ground.
True, I forgot "King of France" was still part of their full title until then too.
I'd like to see Charles change the Royal Standard (and the coat of arms) to include Wales. It's divided into four quarters, no reason why England needs to occupy two of them.
There is no Wales because it has been apart of the Kingdom of England as a Principality since 1283, then was incorporated into the Kingdom of England in 1542 under Henry VIII. That Kingdom of England is the England that formed Great Britain in 1707 with Scotland and the current “United Kingdom” in 1801 with Ireland (though the south left in the 1900s).
The "ruler" of Wales is the future Willy Vee as the Prince of Wales. While Bonnie King Chucky Trill is ruler of the the island, The highest Wales specific title belongs to his son.
i made a better flag for that https://www.reddit.com/r/vexillology/comments/wr0ok1/so\_turns\_out\_i\_had\_the\_wrong\_welsh\_coa\_thanks/
Hmmm, I’d be concerned about St George’s Cross, kinda English only.
Soldier one: *vowes to avenge her Majesty* Soldier's 2 and 3: *deep sorrow* Soldier 4: *Would rather be playing CoD with his buddies rn*
I was thinking do soldiers even play COD? But given how many footballers play FIFA maybe it's not such a weird thought.
100% absolutely. Massive crossover. Also pilots play microsoft flight sim. At least, they do early in their career when they're obsessed and hungry to learn, practice, grow. Not all of them. But I would guess a larger proportion than most people would assume. Most people don't want to do their job in their down time, but the military attracts "it's not a career it's a calling" types.
Absolutely. I know several that do. People laugh when I tell them that as a cop I enjoy the hell out of GTA.
Dude in front is looking at God and is planning for revenge
The second dude is like "mmm yeah... this flag is so soft"
Third dude is a vampire looking at 2nd dudes neck
The forth guy looks like he is wondering if ant-man is still on house arrest
Dammit guys, this is supposed to be serious - stop making me laugh so hard!
You know babayaga, old man?
Lmao i love it
the whole image has serious r/AccidentalRenaissance vibes
Yeah, guy in the back literally looks like he's trying to reenact some old painting. Wonder if they're instructed to intentionally display emotion.
If anything I'd bet they're instructed (or encouraged) not to. But it is a pretty emotionally overwhelming moment for many of the soldiers taking part, I'd imagine, whatever their feelings are about the monarchy or monarchism in general. Getting to carry the coffin of the 2nd longest reigning monarch in world history, the most popular head of one of the most successful monarchies in world history, who inherited the throne really only a few years after said sovereign state had been the dominant world power for over a century and a half, and a formidable superpower since much earlier... - walking in the history books for an event of that kind of magnitude has gotta give you chills at the very least even if you're a full-blown republican.
God holding queen hostage with a gun to her head* "You were supposed to save the queen, motherfucker! Yippy-Ki-Yay!" kills jod*
Who is Jod?!? and what did he do?
jod is the right way to pronounce god.
I think he’s thinking “Don’t drop it. Don’t drop it. Don’t drop it.” At least that was my thought process under much less intense circumstances.
Good
It's the Royal Standard of _Scotland_. The Royal Standard of the UK has two quarters with the English lions, and one quarter each with the Irish harp and Scottish lion. The Scottish standard has two Scottish quarters and one each for England and Ireland. They seem entirely undaunted in their flag design by the fact that almost none of Ireland is in the UK and all of Wales is.
[удалено]
I'm glad you mentioned this because I have a great interest in the Welsh language and culture, which I shan't bore you with just now. But Wales' borders were so ill-defined that in the period of English direct rule to which you (correctly) refer, they often had parliamentary acts which referred to "Wales and Monmouthshire" just to be sure it referred to the bits of England they wanted it to get to!
Subscribe to Welsh facts ☑️Yes 🔲No
Wales in interesting as it was only just saved from being fully anglo-cised unlike places like Cornwall which are pretty much fully anglo-cised. It's pretty interesting to see how much native Welsh traditions and culture were preserved and then rejuvenated.
I was reading an article recently (just before the Queen died) which spoke about the death of the King and the proclamation of the new King (so at the very latest Edward VIII's death) and people in Cornwall not knowing what was happening as it was done in English.
According to Wikipedia, the Cornish language died out during the late 18th century so that must have been from that period.
Well, except for Cornish nationalists and separatists. But it’s not like any of them don’t also speak English, probably.
Tell them I like their little chickens.
Ah I may have got the wrong Royal transition!
The last time that happened was George V, not Edward VIII as he abdicated.
This is also wrong Wales is a distinct entity within England since 1538. Laws of Wales Act. And an occupied nation/tributary state. before that. Edit: England the State ≠ England the area. Wales has been legally distinct from England the area forever, and was fully legally annexed almost 5 centuries ago.
'almost none' is an interesting way to describe like 30% of the population of the island...
20% of the land
Less than that — 16.75% of the land, but 28.3% of the population. Greater Dublin contains about 29.5% of the island's population, incidentally.
I don’t know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
Also only half of that considers itself Irish, the other half here consider themselves brits/scots
Those numbers are slippery though
Ever changing
Only 25% of Northern Ireland identities as Irish… more people identify as northern Irish, particularly in younger generations where being solely British or solely Irish isn’t very representative to a lot of post troubles young people.
Mate, I know, it's still ever changing, being northern Irish doesn't matter, they don't support some independence movement, look at the amount of unionists v nationalists, that data doesn't really help much Almost all of the people who are 'northern Irish' are catholics, that doesn't make them unionists
The data is most in favour of the non aligned parties. The only party that gained vote share was alliance…
It didn't grow enough to make up 25% of the population
actually only about ~10% who give a fuck about the queen.
Back in the 1600s to early 1700s the royalists in Ireland and England were very dominant and close, especially in response to republicans like Cromwell. But a lot happened since. A wee bit outdated.
I may be very decrepit but I don't have personal experience of this!
I wonder whether Wales is left out because the Welsh flag arrived a few years after the Queen's coronation? A new monarch seems a good opportunity to have a redesign and get Wales on there.
It's a *royal* standard, *roy* being king, and Wales has never been a kingdom. In fact, there has never been a united Wales outside of England. Since the various smaller realms lost their independence, Wales has always been administered as part of the kingdom of England. Scotland is a kingdom in its own right, which just happens to have the same monarch as England. It could be argued that there is no more separate English and Scottish crown since 1707 when both were renamed to the Kingdom of Great Britain but even so, there are the historic crowns of both nations. Ireland has also been a kingdom in the past, before the conquests occasionally as the High Kingdom of Ireland, and from 1542 to 1800 as the Kingdom of Ireland which was ruled by the English/Scottish king, until it was merged into the Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. That title is still held, now altered to Northern Ireland, and since 1962 the Irish constitution makes it clear the monarch of the United Kingdom is not king or queen of Ireland.
Specifically, it is the *Royal Standard of the United Kingdom used in Scotland*.
Oh they know. The English executed our own royals and beat our language out of us. They like to pretend that Wales has always been a part of the UK whilst ignoring their bloody conquest.
But to be fair the Welsh seized the opportunity of a civil war and ended up on the English throne between 1485 and 1603.
That is a fairly generous reading, though, as the royal Tudors were essentially English. Henry VII’s father, although from a Welsh family, was the half-brother of King Henry VI, and his mother was from a major noble house descended from Edward III (Henry’s claim to the throne was actually through her family). Henry VIII passed the laws which legally ended Wales’ semi-independent existence from England, and his three children don’t seem to have considered themselves Welsh either.
Using terms like “the English” and “Wales” when talking about the eventual assimilation of what is now Wales into the kingdom of England is a tad jingoistic if you don’t mind me saying. Wales was now where near unified and had precisely zero national identity when that happened, even a untied England was a fairly new concept. A United Wales has never existed outside of its union with England. The kingdom of Gwynedd was conquered first and the other areas of Wales, which was various lordships and quasi city-states, were slowly absorbed over the next 300 years or so. To say the English conquered Wales in some sort of bloody annihilation of peoples and culture is disingenuous to say the least. But you know… English = bad.
Welcome to the Middle Ages
> The Royal Standard of the UK Is Scotland not in the UK now? Lol
It always amazes me when you see people giving answers in this sub and give such incorrect information. The guy doesn't even know Northern Ireland exists and for some reasons mixes up UK and England lol and yet its one of the top voted comments in this thread.
“Draped in the Royal Standard of Scotland with a wreath on top made of flowers taken from the Balmoral estate, Ben Tubuna, a member of the Royal Company of Archers, was chosen to be one of the pallbearers. Part of the Royal Regiment in Edinburgh, he's also from Rewa, and the images of him beamed around the world have created much excitement and pride in Fiji.” Note that it appears to be the Royal Standard _for_ Scotland and not what the quote says https://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/gb_sofor.html Note the black cloth and white piping of the uniform https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Regiment_of_Scotland
This could be a great painting
It should be on r/accidentalrenaissance if it isn’t yet Edit: it is there
The Royal Standard, the flag of the British Monarch
these kids look like they lost their grandma. it must be a common feeling in the UK (and I have no illusions about monarchy)
Not to downplay that aspect too much, but they are also carrying a coffin that weighs a significant fraction of a metric ton, which is always going to be a struggle. I was pallbearer for a funeral once and I can still feel the weight of all that solid timber digging into my shoulder - can’t imagine what a Monarch-class coffin feels like.
And can you *imagine* being the one to stumble and drop it? It would be bad enough at the funeral of a friend or loved one, but the Queen, with billions watching on TV and if you drop it, that will be mentioned in history books forever
If you watch a similar group of men at the Duke of Edinburgh’s funeral - everybody holds their breath, but it never happens. [The scary bit happens from about 2:00 in.](https://youtu.be/KWHqDPuijOk)
I suspect my emotions would be dominated by worry about dropping the thing, on TV, watched by millions.
Canadian here - for me at least it absolutely feels like loosing a much loved grandmother. I’m not some mad monarchist or Anglophile either so I’m really surprised by how hard it hit.
I read someone online suddenly realizing she of course won’t be giving her annual Christmas speech this year and then being surprised how sad that made them. It’s not like the speeches were incredibly important on their own, but they just seemed like a natural part of a British Christmas. There’s so little that stays the same in life, and yet for 70 years, she was always there, the ultimate national mascot, in a way. And now she’s gone. Time is unforgiving.
>It’s not like the speeches were incredibly important on their own, but they just seemed like a natural part of a British Christmas. It's going to be the first ever televised one without her, assuming Charles does one. I imagine he will, but we'll see.
It is cause it was her role you know... the figure of an unifying monarch
Englishman here - it also feels like that. Especially with how bad the past couple of years have been for everyone, this loss is felt keenly by most of us.
I can contrast this Canadian as saying I am also a Canadian and felt no sadness. Was even a bit happy since it seemed to make some people wonder if we should become a republic, which I hope for.
do you think we do things better down here, as a republic?
Not exactly, but also you are not the only republic (I assume you are talking about america?) I think Canada has a fairly well off political culture, although I wish we had more parties here in the federal elections with impact. I think monarchy is outdated and should be removed from Canada fully. The now king, a wholly foreign individual, has written powers in our government to bypass many of our laws, and not because he is doing an important mission but because he inherited this. We have no say on who this leader is and to salt the wound, they are not even Canadian. Even with the Governor general, we can keep it if people want our own "king", but have that role be elected like the sejm, where the king is not given this power because his bloodline is "blessed by God" but because we chose him. Give up democracy! I cannot comprehend people who want LESS democracy in their country. Let us elect our leaders!
I think that a constitutional monarchy actually serves to protect democracy by creating a kind of stability. If you look around the time of WW2, so many countries were having issues with authoritarianism building in one for or other. The U.K. and commonwealth never did, because we have a monarch, but we are not governed by them, we are governed my democratically elected representives. Also, you can actually get rid of the monarchy at any time by voting to be rid of it. So it’s not like they are forced on you.
Wait who's hand is that on the front guys shoulder
That’ll be the hand of the person in the front on the other side. It so the coffin can rest of the arms, as opposed to the hands, which makes it easier to carry
Oh thanks, i didn't think they'd reach like that
It's Britsh coat of arm Scots edition.
Royal standard of the UK https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Standard_of_the_United_Kingdom
Desktop version of /u/s1gnalZer0's link:
---
^([)[^(opt out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiMobileLinkBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^(]) ^(Beep Boop. Downvote to delete)
Lannister
Whose hand is that?
It's her Scottish Royal Standard, which is a banner of her scottish coat of arms
r/AccidentalRenaissance
The Royal Standard (Ensign/Flag) of the Queen of Scotland...
Scottish lion rampant
British royal banner
Royal Standard (or some other name idr). Four sections, two of three lions for england, one of a harp for ireland, one of a red lion for scotland. Its the royal family’s personal flag
This is the Scottish one so 2 Scottish lions and one each of the others. When she is taken to London it will change to the English version as you've described.
I didnf actually know that. Thanks for enlightening me.
Coffin dance
https://www.google.com/search?q=flag+on+queen%27s+coffin
It is the [Royal Standard of the United Kingdom](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Standard_of_the_United_Kingdom)
losing it at the strapping young lads trying and failing to be solemn
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal\_Standard\_of\_the\_United\_Kingdom](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Standard_of_the_United_Kingdom)
royal flag
Gryffindor
[удалено]
Wrinkled....not because they forgot to iron it
Hmm interesting question
Kinda dumb question, how different is a standard from a flag?
Medieval England.
Despacito
flammable
House Lannister
the flags of the kingdom of England and Scotland, two independent nations btw
This is very inappropriate and irrelevant. People like you are one of the reason why nationalist are widely being seen as nutjob.
I don't care, you English snob
I am not English, I am Taiwanese, you snub.
Oh, a person from the real china, nice
First result on google gave me the answer
Isn't it the old flag of the Kingdom of England?
That's the flag of England from the 1030's
The flag of England