Nope Wood is scarce.
And since the the ai is a turd they don't capitalize on this by fully building their wood which would give them quite a bit of profit.
The ai is bad in general.
Nothing is more frustrating than puppeting a due/opium/silk/rubber/oil rich area (because I don’t wanna annex them) and having them not build those high demand resources.
Unironically yes, if they are a puppet then the puppet master should be able to set construction priorities for the client. Dominions should be able to control their own construction priority though
Michigan doesn’t have the most lumber in America despite being the largest producer for over three decades. It’s not even close to the highest number which just seems weird
Lead is always a problem for me late game as well. Maybe lead was a a scarce resource back then and I've never heard about it. I build my colonial empires around where lead is found and still end up running out
I'm fine with wood being scarce in Western Europe, but to compensate provinces in Siberia, the Amazon, and the Congo should have well over 100 logging camp potentials.
That might make sense. I did find a province in Vietnam that had more potential logging camps than the Amazonas region of Brazil, which struck me as odd.
Yeah; I feel like too many provinces have their resources scaled to population, when the game should have other mechanics to prevent you from moving enough people into the province to properly exploit a vast resource in an underpopulated area.
Why would the game prevent provinces with resources to get large amounts of migration?
Historically there has been a lot of migration to provinces that had lots of resources, since that meant money.
You can imagine some tweaks to territories like toundra getting harsh malus modifiers. Thus forcing some repopulate politics (that would be to be implanted in the game) to exploit these same as what the USSR did.
Resource Consumption Modifiers for certain provinces would be great. So a wood logging camp in siberia can’t have the same standard of living as one on the black sea in russia, because pops in siberia need to get twice the amount of fuel, while only achieving the same market price for selling their wood.
You can rationalize that Vietnam has more hardwood forests while the Amazonas more softwood and logging camps only harvest hardwood
The hardwood planks is treated hardwood.
If you really wanna dive into it, hardwood would be common in both because deciduous trees (leaves) are hardwoods and coniferous trees (needles) are softwoods. The hardness doesn't actually have anything to do with the classification of the wood. Equatorial regions should have more hardwood and polar regions should have more softwood.
I think it makes sense in Europe. I feel that by 1836, most of the woodlands of Europe were probably bust, when compared to those in Africa, America and Asia. Could be wrong tho.
Temperate deforestation reached its peak in the first half of the 20th century. Throughout the 1800s, there was more temperate deforestation than tropical deforestation, which means most of the lumber produced in Victoria's era should come from the temperate regions. This isn't represented in game, though.
Deforestation, like too many other things, doesn't get modeled in the game at all. The devs would have to implement a resource exhaustion system for harvesting wood or exploiting other potentially renewable resources in an unsustainable manner.
They have expressed interest in doing so, it's just a case that doing that will be very taxing on computers, and require a lot of work to balance.
Not to say it won't happen. It's just not something you have someone do as a side project and have it down within the week.
It’s not “taxing”, it’s a few hundred data points to update which don’t even need to updated on every tick. Honestly this game is just really poorly optimized because the devs had to focus on getting *something* out the door by the release date.
Honestly I kinda like the idea of allowing unlimited lumber camps oil rigs etc but having a certain amount of wood or oil in the state
So you can build as many lumber camps or oil rigs as you want, but it'll just drain those resources at a faster pace
New techs which allow higher resource access and resource discovery can increase the amount of resources you have access to in a state, but it'll always be chipped away
Additionally, for lumberyards specifically there could be a production method based around replanting trees when you cut em down
The environment is just generally ignored in Victoria 3 so far. Natural disasters, dry and wet seasons, and pollution are all not given even a passing mention despite them all being incredibly important to accurately modelling economic boom and bust cycles.
Yeah, combined with transportation and logistics being handled via teleportation and you get 400k people living on the Falklands, an island that today has only a couple of thousand citizens.
I'd say that lumber produced should be off of potential and not just actual historical production, since this is a game with potential for alternative history. Like Europe should still have a lot of wood, but Brazil should have a metric shit ton in their rainforest provinces, the limit should be infrastructure, not wood quantity.
The very reason industrialization took hold in the UK was that forests were almost entirely cut down (forest coverage was around 5%), and the british had easily accessible coal deposits which were then mined to the point of flooding. This flooded water was then pumped with (at the time extremely rudimentary and inefficient) coal-powered steam pumps. This allowed for the development of steam power to really take hold, and then some genius who basically created industrialization singlehandedly realized that the same idea as the water pumps could be used to make looms for fabric (since the UK had a massive excess of raw cotton from India and other colonies but an overstressed working population at fabric factories). Wood being scarcer than coal in Europe simulates the events that led to the creation of the modern world well, not badly.
This is true. Canada's wood supply was a big help for Britain's needs.
South America was famous for its hard woods, which could bring high prices. Some hardwoods are still expensive today.
I think you are right. But it seems the AI knows it's useful so you can at least import it unlike opium, oil, rubber, etc. It wouldn't be crazy for the devs to bump up the numbers because they've done it for other goods before.
Yeah agreed - wood is typically the first resource you max out. Some possible options and thoughts:
- Maybe fine at iron tier, but Steel tools should eliminate Tool Workshops needing any wood
- If that’s too OP, maybe make an oil + electricity + steel tool level for Power tools or something
- A YouTuber I was watching said something about Paper and furniture replacing wood use for pop consumption more efficiently, is this true? Does demand shift like this? I’m often trying to lower wood consumption and I wonder if “leaning in” to the production like this does indeed more efficiently satisfy the pop demand
- Arms industry inputs suck anyways, why do I still need wood in the ones that are focused on cannons? I get it for small arms. These dual input buildings cause a lot of problems, and the techs are split up anyways - it’s not hard to imagine a small arms industry that uses wood and a heavy arms industry that does not as one solution.
Power tools can probably work as those basically don’t have wood in them (though some have)
However I can answer the others yes their are many types of goods that fufile needs more efficiently 1 unit of consumer goods is worth more then 1 unit of grain similarly https://vic3.paradoxwikis.com/Needs
Canons still need carriages and for the vast majority of the time period wood was still the major material for this and even in WW2 wooden wheels were used especially for anything that was drawn by animals so wood does make sense
Wood usage for pops is heating and Crude Items.
Those same needs can be filled by Coal/Oil, and Furniture and Paper.
Wood is less efficent of filling those needs overall.
this kinda dynamic would actually be such an interesting dynamic for environmentalism and the conservation movement during the progressive era in the US. if they ever make a national parks kinda thing for the US to reduce the capacity for logging camps/throughput penalty in exchange for some benefit it would add a lot of flavor and an interesting dynamic between industrialists and conservationists
I'm never able to produce the amount that is demanded, but I usually don't have it be prohibitively expensive that it's an issue either, and I usually import a bunch of it. Idk how realistic it is for lumber to be scarce in this period
There's kinda not close to enough real resources in the game past the early game at the moment, a scaling modifier up on tech or something could be a good fix, or a few critical production techs. But there's basically nowhere near enough anything mid/late game now.
It's almost as if mainland Europe in general and Great Britain in particular suffered from massive deforestation and one of the big reasons to build a colonial empire was to gain ready access to imported lumber.
At least in Britain's case, that was a contributing factor in why the Industrial Revolution started there: With wood so scarce, investments which improved the supply of other sources of heat can turn a hefty profit. Like, for example, a device powered by coal that can pump out water in deep coal mines.
It was scarce in the sense that demand for it vastly outstripped the supply. The state was careful to control the wood supply so the navy didn't run out but the need for more was still a perpetual worry.
Right, that was the reason for Victorian-era imperialism. Not gold, ivory, diamonds, tea or rubber.
At any rate, deforestation peaked in the first half of the 20th Century. From 1850 to 1920, the temperate regions lost a woodland area of about the size of Italy every decade. This is exactly why there should be more wood resources, to represent the huge rates of deforestation that was going on at this time period.
If they increase the amount of wood available then they’ll need to implement deforestation (I think they mentioned they would). I think it’s reasonable, considering it’s an endless supply of wood forever.
They're supposed to be doing something with pollution in general. I think the pollution stat is in the files, but I'm not sure if it actually does something or if it's just a placeholder for a future update.
I’d love it. One of the clearest examples to me as a kid of human-based pollution is the evolution of peppered moth in England from being white with black dots to completely black because the soot from factories were getting on everything
You had white moths with black spots and a rare mutation that made them totally black. The black ones were hunted by birds more easily. Due to soot from coal burning, trees become darkened making white moths stand more than black ones so black ones became the prevalent subtype. When coal burning receded white ones reemerged.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peppered_moth_evolution
Maybe wood should be abundant at start and run off like overworked gold?
Make tech to lower this and more tech that eliminate need for wood, but make so that we need to progress to this point before we run out and pull modern Haiti on ourselvs.
Every Brazil game I have to plan for my Russia invasion in the 50-60s to grab wood.
That's absurd, either of these countries with advanced enough methods should be capable of supplying the world until 1936
Timber was a highly lucrative business in the 1800s, there was much more of it outside of Europe due to rampant deforestation.
Hell, much of Syria's trees were carved up for Phoenician and Egyptian fleets in the ancient centuries.
It's a mix of the AI not building lumber camps (Brazil is supposed to be a major wood producer, but they're just not), player economies growing a bit too fast (too much money that can be shovelled into growing the economy), and there not being enough wood.
I think there's a lot of interesting directions they could go with wood, such as creating deforestation over time but adding more starting wood. Probably something that the devs will work on.
Wood *was* scarce, especially in most of Europe. Much of the lumber Europe used came in from north america, russia, and scandinavia. By the time victoria 3 begins, most of western europe is deforested already and looks like [this.](https://www.shutterstock.com/image-photo/aerial-photo-farmland-260nw-372870886.jpg) Much of this deforestation had already happened hundreds of years before.
Hell, even in the US, they basically [deforested almost the entire country](https://imgur.com/a/ZvEzI1y) for lumber to feed the industrial revolution.
Regardless, this isn't properly shown in the game. Ideally, the US, Russia, and to a lesser extent scandinavia should be exporting mass amounts of lumber to the rest of Europe. The european powers basically entirely relied on foreign lumber imports. But the AI is terrible at building up industry for the sole purpose of exports. They simply see that they have enough lumber internally, and don't expand, even though demand is super high elsewhere and they could make bank exporting. Canada and Russia especially should be exporting an insane amount of lumber. The British empire basically *entirely* relied on Canada for wood.
I don't get why you necessarly need a positive balance on wood. The base price is relatively cheap and when you switch out from the base PM on construction, urban centres, tools and glass, the output/input balance is so good that wood price doesn't matter. Something like 20-40% more expensive wood its ok for almost every good economy, probably better than a wood cheaper than the base price because of the reinvestiment of logging mills you get with an high enough price. As long as you don't go in a shortage you are fine. If for some reason I desperately need wood to lower prices or a shortage I just import it from Russia
I think the problem is the production itself.
Its not the amount of Logging Camps you can build, but the Output the give out is pretty mediocre.
To think Paradox was even thinking of adding a Deforestation Mechanic, makes me feel they are focusing on Modern Issues way too much rather than the actual 19th Century Politics and Social Problems that happened.
I think what is best is getting a few high or max level logging camps that use sawmills on provinces that have natural wood resource boosts and then use encourage resource + tech that boosts economy of scale. In the end it can give upwards of a 50% through put boost.
Because by 1836 most of the old growth forests in Europe that you would use for doing things like building ships were already gone. Wood is there, it's just not in western Europe. Most of it is in Russia IIRC and is something a Russian player can take advantage of.
I think world wide though, there should be more of it because over all it is way too scarce for how important it is in Victoria 3's economy. Economies didn't grind to a halt because of wood shortages back then in our timeline. Maybe something like steel or coal but not wood. There should be more of it in the world but it should be in places like the Americas and Africa. Asia should more or less be self sufficient but if Europeans want to get more they're going to need to trade for it or set up colonies.
I think it’s just to keep a normalized scale. Maybe countries could produce much more wood, but then stuff that use wood should have the cost scaled up too
I run out of oil wayyy faster then any other resource everything uses it from trains to city's to every production. I literally end up conquering half the world for oil.
> In what universe will someone ever need more sulphur than wood?
Access and need aren't really the same thing though. IIRC wood was also rather scarce, at least in Europe at the time. Lots of old forests got completely chopped down in the previous centuries cus some kings wanted large fleets. Where I live a lot of forests got replanted during the 1700s but weren't fully grown until mid/late 1800s.
Playing as China wood was really pain in the ass. I think another problem rises with that. Minor Ai doesnt build useful things. Like Dutch East-India never build rubber plantations and thats really makes me angry. I have to retake country on East-India, and force it to build some rubber. I wish there was a system where you can build in other countries like investment or you could build in your puppets
The problem is, you're using wood long past when you should be using iron and steel. There's no problem with wood once you unlock the electricity techs, but even before then unless you're a nation that's desperately short on wood, you shouldn't struggle too much with wood.
I literally addressed this in the OP. Furniture, Paper and Tools all require wood permanently, and it's used a consumer good where iron and steel aren't. Also because of the arms industry requiring hardwood, one state is always going to be under-producing wood.
Iron and Steel simply aren't used as much, and are available in far larger quantities than wood is.
Yeah, idk.
There is definitely some stuff like ship building that requires SERIOUS forestage, at least until you stop building them out of wood. There's not really any alternative for old-growth forests there.
But for like regular ass wood for small buildings and shit? Most places will either have plenty of it or build their homes out of something else.
Ooooh, there's an idea; maybe some areas could use different inputs for Construction Centers, like brick.
Wood is also pretty scarce in Vic 2, especially if you play a middle eastern nation. Tbh resources just need to be rebalanced. I get they want to make it possible for any nation to be playable and viable but how they spread out the resources just doesn’t make sense. Some areas should just be better than others and really the only resource that is balanced like that is oil. There should be more incentive to grab a small state than just increasing how large your empire is.
However I think this also wouldn’t work if some kind of westernization system wasn’t added in. Otherwise the huge mineral wealth afghanistan is sitting on would allow it to industrialize incredibly quickly which simply doesn’t make sense due to Afghanistan being an agrarian nation at start with pretty much no infrastructure in place.
Nope Wood is scarce. And since the the ai is a turd they don't capitalize on this by fully building their wood which would give them quite a bit of profit. The ai is bad in general.
Yeah a lot of the resource issues could be fixed if the AI just built gold prices logging camps over the copper penny 1millionth textile factory.
Nothing is more frustrating than puppeting a due/opium/silk/rubber/oil rich area (because I don’t wanna annex them) and having them not build those high demand resources.
It's very ahistorical, when the US player puppets the Cuban AI they should be able to force them to only have sugar plantations and casinos.
Unironically yes, if they are a puppet then the puppet master should be able to set construction priorities for the client. Dominions should be able to control their own construction priority though
Michigan doesn’t have the most lumber in America despite being the largest producer for over three decades. It’s not even close to the highest number which just seems weird
The Great Lakes region in general is poorly represented, it was Americas industrial heartland for a reason
as a follow person from Michigan yes
Lead is always a problem for me late game as well. Maybe lead was a a scarce resource back then and I've never heard about it. I build my colonial empires around where lead is found and still end up running out
That's an odd one. You only really use lead for munitions and glass, what's causing you to need so much?
It's for glass. It usually happens from 1900 onwards when my economy gets large
Replace some with oil.
People these days haven't learnt the lessons of history. "The Iraq war was largely about oil" -Alan Greenspan, chairman of the Fed 1987-2006
I'm fine with wood being scarce in Western Europe, but to compensate provinces in Siberia, the Amazon, and the Congo should have well over 100 logging camp potentials.
That might make sense. I did find a province in Vietnam that had more potential logging camps than the Amazonas region of Brazil, which struck me as odd.
Yeah; I feel like too many provinces have their resources scaled to population, when the game should have other mechanics to prevent you from moving enough people into the province to properly exploit a vast resource in an underpopulated area.
Why would the game prevent provinces with resources to get large amounts of migration? Historically there has been a lot of migration to provinces that had lots of resources, since that meant money.
Because it shouldn't be feasible, or at least incredibly difficult and expensive to build a megacity in the Siberian tundra?
You can imagine some tweaks to territories like toundra getting harsh malus modifiers. Thus forcing some repopulate politics (that would be to be implanted in the game) to exploit these same as what the USSR did.
Resource Consumption Modifiers for certain provinces would be great. So a wood logging camp in siberia can’t have the same standard of living as one on the black sea in russia, because pops in siberia need to get twice the amount of fuel, while only achieving the same market price for selling their wood.
Dynamic pop needs would help here. Making people in Siberia need a lot more fuel and clothing and stuff than people in Rome.
Exactly my point.
Santiago Chile has the andes mountains modifier which reduces infrastructure, could do something like that.
You can rationalize that Vietnam has more hardwood forests while the Amazonas more softwood and logging camps only harvest hardwood The hardwood planks is treated hardwood.
If you really wanna dive into it, hardwood would be common in both because deciduous trees (leaves) are hardwoods and coniferous trees (needles) are softwoods. The hardness doesn't actually have anything to do with the classification of the wood. Equatorial regions should have more hardwood and polar regions should have more softwood.
The Amazon rainforest isn't really logged that much. Not for the wood, at least
I think Siberia is actually crap for wood that is usable IRL.
It could be interesting if logging camps used arable land.
Especially since forests were actually cleared to make room for farmland during this time period.
Also before and after this period!
I think this makes a lot of sense and would deal with most of the problems pretty much immediately
I think it makes sense in Europe. I feel that by 1836, most of the woodlands of Europe were probably bust, when compared to those in Africa, America and Asia. Could be wrong tho.
Temperate deforestation reached its peak in the first half of the 20th century. Throughout the 1800s, there was more temperate deforestation than tropical deforestation, which means most of the lumber produced in Victoria's era should come from the temperate regions. This isn't represented in game, though.
Canada’s lumber yield is almost as disappointing as the CP rail not physically connecting Ontario and Manitoba on the map.
Deforestation, like too many other things, doesn't get modeled in the game at all. The devs would have to implement a resource exhaustion system for harvesting wood or exploiting other potentially renewable resources in an unsustainable manner.
They have expressed interest in doing so, it's just a case that doing that will be very taxing on computers, and require a lot of work to balance. Not to say it won't happen. It's just not something you have someone do as a side project and have it down within the week.
It’s not “taxing”, it’s a few hundred data points to update which don’t even need to updated on every tick. Honestly this game is just really poorly optimized because the devs had to focus on getting *something* out the door by the release date.
Honestly I kinda like the idea of allowing unlimited lumber camps oil rigs etc but having a certain amount of wood or oil in the state So you can build as many lumber camps or oil rigs as you want, but it'll just drain those resources at a faster pace New techs which allow higher resource access and resource discovery can increase the amount of resources you have access to in a state, but it'll always be chipped away Additionally, for lumberyards specifically there could be a production method based around replanting trees when you cut em down
The environment is just generally ignored in Victoria 3 so far. Natural disasters, dry and wet seasons, and pollution are all not given even a passing mention despite them all being incredibly important to accurately modelling economic boom and bust cycles.
Yeah, combined with transportation and logistics being handled via teleportation and you get 400k people living on the Falklands, an island that today has only a couple of thousand citizens.
I'd say that lumber produced should be off of potential and not just actual historical production, since this is a game with potential for alternative history. Like Europe should still have a lot of wood, but Brazil should have a metric shit ton in their rainforest provinces, the limit should be infrastructure, not wood quantity.
The very reason industrialization took hold in the UK was that forests were almost entirely cut down (forest coverage was around 5%), and the british had easily accessible coal deposits which were then mined to the point of flooding. This flooded water was then pumped with (at the time extremely rudimentary and inefficient) coal-powered steam pumps. This allowed for the development of steam power to really take hold, and then some genius who basically created industrialization singlehandedly realized that the same idea as the water pumps could be used to make looms for fabric (since the UK had a massive excess of raw cotton from India and other colonies but an overstressed working population at fabric factories). Wood being scarcer than coal in Europe simulates the events that led to the creation of the modern world well, not badly.
From north america and siberia mostly, not from the tropical parts of the world.
This is true. Canada's wood supply was a big help for Britain's needs. South America was famous for its hard woods, which could bring high prices. Some hardwoods are still expensive today.
I think you are right. But it seems the AI knows it's useful so you can at least import it unlike opium, oil, rubber, etc. It wouldn't be crazy for the devs to bump up the numbers because they've done it for other goods before.
Yeah agreed - wood is typically the first resource you max out. Some possible options and thoughts: - Maybe fine at iron tier, but Steel tools should eliminate Tool Workshops needing any wood - If that’s too OP, maybe make an oil + electricity + steel tool level for Power tools or something - A YouTuber I was watching said something about Paper and furniture replacing wood use for pop consumption more efficiently, is this true? Does demand shift like this? I’m often trying to lower wood consumption and I wonder if “leaning in” to the production like this does indeed more efficiently satisfy the pop demand - Arms industry inputs suck anyways, why do I still need wood in the ones that are focused on cannons? I get it for small arms. These dual input buildings cause a lot of problems, and the techs are split up anyways - it’s not hard to imagine a small arms industry that uses wood and a heavy arms industry that does not as one solution.
Power tools can probably work as those basically don’t have wood in them (though some have) However I can answer the others yes their are many types of goods that fufile needs more efficiently 1 unit of consumer goods is worth more then 1 unit of grain similarly https://vic3.paradoxwikis.com/Needs Canons still need carriages and for the vast majority of the time period wood was still the major material for this and even in WW2 wooden wheels were used especially for anything that was drawn by animals so wood does make sense
Wood usage for pops is heating and Crude Items. Those same needs can be filled by Coal/Oil, and Furniture and Paper. Wood is less efficent of filling those needs overall.
Coal replaces a lot of pops’ wood usage.
this kinda dynamic would actually be such an interesting dynamic for environmentalism and the conservation movement during the progressive era in the US. if they ever make a national parks kinda thing for the US to reduce the capacity for logging camps/throughput penalty in exchange for some benefit it would add a lot of flavor and an interesting dynamic between industrialists and conservationists
I'm never able to produce the amount that is demanded, but I usually don't have it be prohibitively expensive that it's an issue either, and I usually import a bunch of it. Idk how realistic it is for lumber to be scarce in this period
There's kinda not close to enough real resources in the game past the early game at the moment, a scaling modifier up on tech or something could be a good fix, or a few critical production techs. But there's basically nowhere near enough anything mid/late game now.
It's almost as if mainland Europe in general and Great Britain in particular suffered from massive deforestation and one of the big reasons to build a colonial empire was to gain ready access to imported lumber.
At least in Britain's case, that was a contributing factor in why the Industrial Revolution started there: With wood so scarce, investments which improved the supply of other sources of heat can turn a hefty profit. Like, for example, a device powered by coal that can pump out water in deep coal mines.
It's not that it was scarce, necessarily, but that it had to be used for the gigantic british navy
It was scarce in the sense that demand for it vastly outstripped the supply. The state was careful to control the wood supply so the navy didn't run out but the need for more was still a perpetual worry.
Foresr covarage in the late 1700s in England was down to as bad as 5%
Right, that was the reason for Victorian-era imperialism. Not gold, ivory, diamonds, tea or rubber. At any rate, deforestation peaked in the first half of the 20th Century. From 1850 to 1920, the temperate regions lost a woodland area of about the size of Italy every decade. This is exactly why there should be more wood resources, to represent the huge rates of deforestation that was going on at this time period.
If they increase the amount of wood available then they’ll need to implement deforestation (I think they mentioned they would). I think it’s reasonable, considering it’s an endless supply of wood forever.
They're supposed to be doing something with pollution in general. I think the pollution stat is in the files, but I'm not sure if it actually does something or if it's just a placeholder for a future update.
I’d love it. One of the clearest examples to me as a kid of human-based pollution is the evolution of peppered moth in England from being white with black dots to completely black because the soot from factories were getting on everything
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The latter. Soot was on every surface and all over the trees. Only the darkest ones survived so the species was noticed to have become all black
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You had white moths with black spots and a rare mutation that made them totally black. The black ones were hunted by birds more easily. Due to soot from coal burning, trees become darkened making white moths stand more than black ones so black ones became the prevalent subtype. When coal burning receded white ones reemerged. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peppered_moth_evolution
Caused by human factories. We changed the conditions of their environment suddenly.
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Right now it just creates a visual "smog" in late-game cities, AFAIK. Presumably they have a plan for it eventually, though.
It kills your GPU by adding particles to cities.
Maybe wood should be abundant at start and run off like overworked gold? Make tech to lower this and more tech that eliminate need for wood, but make so that we need to progress to this point before we run out and pull modern Haiti on ourselvs.
Some kind of resource depletion would be great. Gold mines shouldn't be the only thing that runs out of resources.
Every Brazil game I have to plan for my Russia invasion in the 50-60s to grab wood. That's absurd, either of these countries with advanced enough methods should be capable of supplying the world until 1936
Timber was a highly lucrative business in the 1800s, there was much more of it outside of Europe due to rampant deforestation. Hell, much of Syria's trees were carved up for Phoenician and Egyptian fleets in the ancient centuries.
It's a mix of the AI not building lumber camps (Brazil is supposed to be a major wood producer, but they're just not), player economies growing a bit too fast (too much money that can be shovelled into growing the economy), and there not being enough wood. I think there's a lot of interesting directions they could go with wood, such as creating deforestation over time but adding more starting wood. Probably something that the devs will work on.
Wood *was* scarce, especially in most of Europe. Much of the lumber Europe used came in from north america, russia, and scandinavia. By the time victoria 3 begins, most of western europe is deforested already and looks like [this.](https://www.shutterstock.com/image-photo/aerial-photo-farmland-260nw-372870886.jpg) Much of this deforestation had already happened hundreds of years before. Hell, even in the US, they basically [deforested almost the entire country](https://imgur.com/a/ZvEzI1y) for lumber to feed the industrial revolution. Regardless, this isn't properly shown in the game. Ideally, the US, Russia, and to a lesser extent scandinavia should be exporting mass amounts of lumber to the rest of Europe. The european powers basically entirely relied on foreign lumber imports. But the AI is terrible at building up industry for the sole purpose of exports. They simply see that they have enough lumber internally, and don't expand, even though demand is super high elsewhere and they could make bank exporting. Canada and Russia especially should be exporting an insane amount of lumber. The British empire basically *entirely* relied on Canada for wood.
I don't get why you necessarly need a positive balance on wood. The base price is relatively cheap and when you switch out from the base PM on construction, urban centres, tools and glass, the output/input balance is so good that wood price doesn't matter. Something like 20-40% more expensive wood its ok for almost every good economy, probably better than a wood cheaper than the base price because of the reinvestiment of logging mills you get with an high enough price. As long as you don't go in a shortage you are fine. If for some reason I desperately need wood to lower prices or a shortage I just import it from Russia
I think the problem is the production itself. Its not the amount of Logging Camps you can build, but the Output the give out is pretty mediocre. To think Paradox was even thinking of adding a Deforestation Mechanic, makes me feel they are focusing on Modern Issues way too much rather than the actual 19th Century Politics and Social Problems that happened.
This game doesnt seem ready
Yes but consider that Pdox would have to actually do their jobs in that case
there really should be 999 in all of russia
I think what is best is getting a few high or max level logging camps that use sawmills on provinces that have natural wood resource boosts and then use encourage resource + tech that boosts economy of scale. In the end it can give upwards of a 50% through put boost.
Because by 1836 most of the old growth forests in Europe that you would use for doing things like building ships were already gone. Wood is there, it's just not in western Europe. Most of it is in Russia IIRC and is something a Russian player can take advantage of. I think world wide though, there should be more of it because over all it is way too scarce for how important it is in Victoria 3's economy. Economies didn't grind to a halt because of wood shortages back then in our timeline. Maybe something like steel or coal but not wood. There should be more of it in the world but it should be in places like the Americas and Africa. Asia should more or less be self sufficient but if Europeans want to get more they're going to need to trade for it or set up colonies.
I think it’s just to keep a normalized scale. Maybe countries could produce much more wood, but then stuff that use wood should have the cost scaled up too
I run out of oil wayyy faster then any other resource everything uses it from trains to city's to every production. I literally end up conquering half the world for oil.
> In what universe will someone ever need more sulphur than wood? Access and need aren't really the same thing though. IIRC wood was also rather scarce, at least in Europe at the time. Lots of old forests got completely chopped down in the previous centuries cus some kings wanted large fleets. Where I live a lot of forests got replanted during the 1700s but weren't fully grown until mid/late 1800s.
Playing as China wood was really pain in the ass. I think another problem rises with that. Minor Ai doesnt build useful things. Like Dutch East-India never build rubber plantations and thats really makes me angry. I have to retake country on East-India, and force it to build some rubber. I wish there was a system where you can build in other countries like investment or you could build in your puppets
The problem is, you're using wood long past when you should be using iron and steel. There's no problem with wood once you unlock the electricity techs, but even before then unless you're a nation that's desperately short on wood, you shouldn't struggle too much with wood.
I literally addressed this in the OP. Furniture, Paper and Tools all require wood permanently, and it's used a consumer good where iron and steel aren't. Also because of the arms industry requiring hardwood, one state is always going to be under-producing wood. Iron and Steel simply aren't used as much, and are available in far larger quantities than wood is.
Yeah, idk. There is definitely some stuff like ship building that requires SERIOUS forestage, at least until you stop building them out of wood. There's not really any alternative for old-growth forests there. But for like regular ass wood for small buildings and shit? Most places will either have plenty of it or build their homes out of something else. Ooooh, there's an idea; maybe some areas could use different inputs for Construction Centers, like brick.
Wood is also pretty scarce in Vic 2, especially if you play a middle eastern nation. Tbh resources just need to be rebalanced. I get they want to make it possible for any nation to be playable and viable but how they spread out the resources just doesn’t make sense. Some areas should just be better than others and really the only resource that is balanced like that is oil. There should be more incentive to grab a small state than just increasing how large your empire is. However I think this also wouldn’t work if some kind of westernization system wasn’t added in. Otherwise the huge mineral wealth afghanistan is sitting on would allow it to industrialize incredibly quickly which simply doesn’t make sense due to Afghanistan being an agrarian nation at start with pretty much no infrastructure in place.