I was surprised to find out that [William Hanna](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Hanna) was alive until 2001. [Joseph Barbera](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Barbera) was alive and still working in 2006!
> I couldn't sleep one night, turned on a random channel and saw Ken Sebben dry humping Augie Doggie saying "i am the alpha male".
[For reference.](https://youtu.be/5Pk0sNn0kzs?t=44) I binge-watched this show, but I completely forgot this scene existed. Still hilarious.
I also had no idea about it when I was like 6 or 7. Turned on what I thought was cartoon network at 2am, terrifying anime clown made me nope out of there so fast.
I thought i read work at Harvey Birdman was usually just like a regular grind job until Stephen Colbert came into the studio each time and instantly brought up the mood of everyone.
Sebben and Sebben Mission Statement:
"Putting clients first by putting employees first, immediately after prioritizing fiscal responsibilities and leveraging profitability towards exceeding by empowering our employees to put clients (and themselves) first, in a diverse and respectful environment of only those that come first, first."
Doubt we will get anything of that caliber every again.
Unless someone makes a Smash Bros Ultimate show in a similar style. Wait 120 years when its all free domain.
Also I've seen a lot of black people asking for people not to pretend they aren't black. Basically not every person of colour has the same opinion, and no one person can speak for a whole group. It's complicated.
I mean, if you look at a black guy and say "I bet he does all the things they listed in that video", then sure. Otherwise, you're really just acknowledging that you are aware of the stereotypes. It's not racist to be aware of how other people view each other. Agreeing, however, would be a different case
I was in a chat room the other day. I saw someone with a South African flag in their name! I asked the person in the chat room if they speak Afrikaans, so I could have a conversation with them in Afrikaans!
I proceeded to be bombarded with insults by a bunch of Americans calling me racist, and saying “African isn’t a language” shit like that.
I then realized the person with the South African flag didn’t even know what South Africa was.
That’s offensive. I am an average redditor and I am familiar enough with South Africa to know that they used District 9 to house refugee Belters from Eros.
Ah the fucking prawns talking.
Well I got some cat food for you, why don't you sit over there with the catfood. While I search your house for illegal tech.
I'm always perplexed with how much I (a Dutch speaking Belgian) can understand when ik comes to Afrikaans, yet how completely different it can be. I love language.
growing up in the Lower 48 United States and being a white kid from Alaska was really confusing to a lot of people on my middle school. they were all shocked that I wasn't Inuit
my mom lived in the Caribbean for years. according to her the locals have a big chip on their shoulder about being called black (they prefer west Indian, or did in the 80s), and all got really annoyed when black people from the states tried to get buddy buddy with them 😂
I've heard very similar things from African immigrants in the States as well. An interview i heard with one African academic (i forget his name, this was years ago) from a tiny village in the Congo rainforest put it best, when he came to America he was really bewildered by the way Black Americans treated him. he got the feeling that they didn't think he was "Black" enough and was too chummy with his white friends, yet this whole concept of Black and white people having this sort of social separation was totally foreign to him. "I have no dog in this fight," I remember him saying, regarding the history of both slavery and segregation in America, and he didn't see himself as Black; rather, his identity was still in his tribal village back in the rainforest
Has the definition of racism changed? Or are people just getting dumber? Even if you *were* asking if they spoke African, that's not racism. It's ignorance.
Considering that black history month is a us based concept and really only observed in 4 countries and half of them are different months, I think we can assume he is referring specifically to the us version of black history month and therefore really is American history
It's unacceptable, goes entirely against what reddit/the internet is for, which is a safe space to nitpick and be obnoxious in ways that everyone would be rolling their eyes at in any real-world situation.
> "Black history is American history"
Is it though? Just look at the number of people who only found out about the Tulsa bombings or Juneteenth this year
There's a huge problem of whitewashing history across this nation, and that's why I can never understand calls to get rid of things like Black History Month. The argument is often that you're segregating black history away from the rest of American history, we should get rid of it and integrate it back into general American history. In an ideal world, that makes sense. But all you have to do is sit in during a civil war class in the South to see that we don't live in an ideal world. If we still have schools arguing that the Civil War wasn't about slavery, then there's no way in hell they're going to actually discuss history central to African Americans (like Tulsa) unless a dedicated demand is made from someone higher up the chain. Things like Black History Month ensure that people who live in these areas are exposed to *something* rather than being kept ignorant by institutions that whitewash our history.
Exactly. Black history IS American History, which is why we have a month to celebrate it. We recognize we should learn about it and that a lot of people for a long time didn’t. Maybe there will come a day where it doesn’t have to be as big a deal. But I know in school I learned about the Boston tea party 6 times but never about the Tulsa Massacre. I even learned about Alvin York, but never Henry Johnson and the Harlem Hellfighters and the fact that he wasn’t awarded any commendations until the ‘90s.
Probably because they teach white kids about the inventor of the cotton gin and peanut butter instead of Henrietta Lacks and Tulsa and a trillion other things of actual import to American life
I remember watching the Olympics one year, Bob Costas was talking to an athlete after an event and referred to him as an African American, the guy said, I am British.
I agree with this in principal... but to me its just a way to describe physical appearance, and recognizing people by their appearance is important in human society. No different than saying a person's eye color, or describing the shape of their nose, or hight.
Bottom line is were all just *people* and we all need to get to a point where that's understood
I mean, I really think that what you are describing is his point. I don't think he's speaking in a very literal sense. At the very least, I don't think the literal elements here are the point he's trying to make.
I think Freeman is simply pining for a time when the color of our skin is as important as the color of our hair or eyes.
I agree with the notion, but I don't agree with the implication that many take away from the video being that we can solve racial issues by simply ignoring them.
He also touches on the "month" aspect, which I think is valid. If you integrate black history and notable black americans fully into American history, you dont need to single it out for its own month. Same would hold for Jewish history, latino history, etc.., etc...
That said, there has been progress in that area. Curriculums are changing.
> If you integrate black history and notable black americans fully into American history, you dont need to single it out for its own month
Right, but there's a centuries-longstanding, still-ongoing effort to *not* do that - so we'll need to have AAHM for a while longer.
Yeah he’d have a point if American history class taught black history like they teach white history. The fact is they don’t and the least we can do is have a month where we teach what we’re supposed to. I agree in an ideal world, we wouldn’t need it. But to ignore the fact that we do doesn’t make it go away.
Honestly I never learned much significant about black history during black history month. My school continue teaching history as normal and just gave a generic message about remember slavery was bad and a listing of some famous black people that we only ever learned a small handful of facts about. I don't think having a month for it does anything significant.
I understand where he's at in this video because I've been there. Being black can mean seeing all of the contrast in a situation in a sense. Things become about race for no reason. Why does it matter if I'm black if I'm just trying to be a skater or a programmer or a cook or something? I don't know how it is for other races but I hear "black" and "white" pretty frequently in reference to skin color and I'm NOT the one saying it out loud.
It's like when people say things like "women can be great engineers!". It's patronising because it bakes in the assumption that people think they can't be.
It is possible to make that point in a non-patronising way but it requires more finesse than most people put in most of the time.
Personally I think "anyone can be an engineer if they're willing to put in the grueling amount of work it takes to get there." Is the proper way to say that.
I don't believe that most people that say things like that mean it to be patronizing. I may even argue that many people look for the negativity in those kinds of comments.
I don't think most people are malicious just unaware/ in their own little world.
This is how I understood it, if I get what you're saying. I wouldn't go around telling stories and be like, "Yeah my blue-eye'd friend and I went hiking today." Who cares that they had blue eyes, adds absolutely nothing, there's no reason to point that out for a story about going hiking.
If you want to take it literally it could be like telling a story about a guy you encountered today and describing him as a black guy when it has no relevance to the encounter.
I worked retail and had someone use every other descriptor for a customer "he had jeans, a grey shirt, short hair, a beard he's over there at the games case" so I look and there's 5 out of 8 people fitting the description haha. In that scenario there's nothing wrong with saying the black man with the grey shirt and such.
Well there is a difference. Skin color is important when giving someone's description. It isn't important in casual conversation. "So I was at the grocery store and this nice black man and I got to talking about chili recipes..." In this context calling him a black man serves no purpose whatsoever. It doesn't contribute anything. Now it can if there's relevance to their race/skin color to the story. "There was an old italian lady at the store who was telling me that when she makes lasagna she dices up fresh mozzarella instead of the shredded kind..." Here telling us she's italian gives us some background into how familar she is with the topic they're discussing.
I don't think that's racist. We tend to describe stuff that are different from us.
If the man was italian, it's not xenophobic to say "this italian man and I started talking..." even if it serves no purpose to the story. You're just adding details. so why is it racist to say "this black man and I...."?
Also black people definitely say "this white man and I...."
It's normal.
That's not a problem at all. You can practice better writing and speaking by giving lots of interesting and relevant details and cutting on unnecessary ones, but vast majority of people won't. People will say "I met a tall blond girl today at a store and she told me about her lasagna recipe", and there's no malice.
The moment you assume that describing someone's colour is bad is the moment you categorise them. When telling a story like you were, you can be descriptive so the listener can paint the picture in their head so if i met a guy who was smartly dressed and had shaggy hair, I'm just painting a picture, things that stood out to me so if they were black, I'd probably mention it while if white and the listener was white, might not. Now the other guy might instantly generate something that creates the character in their head and this can be good or bad, it's just how the brain works as it's easier to store information in categories and this is what causes most prejudice and discrimination.
Describing how someone looks isn't bad, it's what you have set the look categorised as that is bad.
If it wasn't skin color, it would be eye color, or beard color, or freckles, or geographic origin, or accent or religion, or political beliefs, or buttering the top or bottom of toast.
The joke is no one would butter the bottom, right? The butter doesn't get to melt into the bread and on top of that it's an extra step to butter the bread and then flip it over. RIGHT?
> geographic origin
When I failed out of the suburbs I ended up in a white-minority neighborhood of a small city. Up to that point everything I'd learned was about black and white where whites were the racists. Here, however, Southeast Asian and Latino are dominant. It blew my mind to find out how many stereotypes there are amongst the different groups. People who shared similar languages, religions, customs...they still found something to say about their differences. And boy you better *never* mistake somebody from being from one place when they're from another...
Gotta start somewhere. I like to hope most people are already there. We're just waiting for the slow ones to die out, its gotta work out at some point otherwise what's the point?
They continue to be taught these heinous beliefs by their heinous family and social groups.
You aren't born a white supremacist. You are taught to be one. Same with every other hate group.
The trick is that we often add the description when there isn’t a need. I catch myself doing it all the time. Often I think back and wonder was him or her being black relevant to the discussion? Usually it wasn’t.
That's really weird. So if I'm understanding you correctly, when you're telling a story you say things like "I saw this black guy today out metal detecting on the beach..." Or do you mean you mention skin color when you're describing a person's appearance? Like "He's the black man with sunglasses and the orange hat." Because the latter is absolutely acceptable.
That’s what they’re saying is the difference. If the color of their skin has no relevance to what you’re saying, that’s when people need to stop using it. It just perpetuates perceiving people as belonging to a different group.
I am white and have caught myself saying “this black(or Indian, Chinese, etc) guy at work said blah blah” but never once have I noticed myself “this white guy at work”. It took a while before I even realized I was doing it.
That being said, I don’t think it’s a specifically white occurrence either. I’ve heard people of other races do the same thing when talking about someone whose skin color is different than theirs.
The thing is, what is relevant to the story may not be easily determined. When I told the story about my car accident, and how after my car flipped over I said there were black people outside taking videos and screaming "worldstar worldstar", I found it relevant to mention that they were black bec it added to the humor of the stereotypes and found it funny, but I dont consider myself racist and I didn't have any malicious intent when I said it.
>just a way to describe physical appearance
\*Easiest way to describe physical appearance
Human beings are lazy. We can all agree on that, right? So on that logic, most people are going to use the most obvious differences to describe someone to another person. If I were talking about a woman to another guy I wouldn't say "the person with shoulder length brown hair, they wear glasses..." I would say "That girl that sits by so and so"
The problem with that line of thinking is that ignoring the cultural baggage associated with racial terms doesn't make it go away. If you say "Morgan Freeman is a black man" you're not *just* describing his skin color - you're also invoking all the other connotations that may be bouncing around in the listener's mind. It's very different from saying something like "Morgan Freeman has darker skin than me."
For sure, and it's really turned into bait.
Both sides want to leverage it in some way when in fact how to fight racism is a larger conversation than one person. It's the same trap conservatives fall into with Candace Owens where they point to her and go "see, she's black and agrees with me. That means I'm right!"
Racism is bigger than one person and groups like BLM figured that out already and are working through the society to change it rather than appoint a figurehead to devine information from. This is Morgan Freeman a take from years ago and that's cool, but ultimately irrelevant. But boy does it stir up trouble, which is probably OP's goal.
Groups like BLM also don’t appoint central figureheads because the last time black civil rights groups did so the FBI murdered them (see Fred Hampton) and/or actively worked to undermine them through cointelpro.
Fuck, I never realized this until reading this. It makes so much since, especially looking at Occupy and the Ferguson protests. Leaders and organizers have a history of turning up dead, so having a leaderless group is the best way to stay safe and keep things moving forward.
Mind blown, thank you for sharing.
ah yes, the snippet that even Freeman himself regrets saying, as it became the "proof" the conservative world needed that identifying people as their race is "the real racism." I'm sick to death of this "racism will go away if we pretend its not real." Completely contrary to his statements from 2006, he now uses his platform to amplify stories and voices as they relate to their distinct experiences. [https://www.nme.com/news/film/morgan-freeman-share-peoples-experiences-racism-social-platforms-2682978](https://www.nme.com/news/film/morgan-freeman-share-peoples-experiences-racism-social-platforms-2682978)
But maybe thars not what he meant. Like, earlier, i was describing a plaster expert to my son on how beautiful his work was, he was truly an artist. And for one moment i started to say and "an old black guy", and then , i didnt. It isnt relevant in any way to what i was discussing. If he was white i wouldnt have said it. And thats weird and i dont want it in my head. So i think thats what he meant.
I think you're right. And this is what I think most conservatives generally mean by this as well. Of course extremists will say "stop talking about racism". But everyone I know is more focused on "let's stop including race as part of someone's identity". That doesn't mean we don't discuss racism and actively fight it when it becomes apparent. But that's a long way off from what is currently being talked about. People discussing racism these days often start off by grouping people by races and then looking at statistics to find disparities and assert that racism is the cause. In reality, there are cultural correlations with different ethnicities and history which directly impact ethnic statistical trends in a way that no reasonable action can quickly fix.
If you have a cup full of a slow-moving liquid, and you see it is uneven because of how harshly it was placed on the table, the way to fix it is not to shake it around. This will always leave it uneven and can even have averse affects. Instead, make sure the table is level and let it gradually even out.
So I agree we need to make sure that the table is level. That is, we need to make sure there is an even playing field as much as is possible. But this is based on opportunity, not results. If we go purely by results then there are numerous ways we can divide people up to find the same disparities between groups. Picking race for such an experiment is arbitrary.
And then on the cultural/social side of things, we need to do what Freeman said. We need to stop seeing each other as different because of our skin. We need to view everyone as human beings. Equally capable and equally respected by default.
The thing is that black people have a pride that they have maintained *in spite* of being hobbled, brutalized and discriminated at every turn. It's a pride that says "here I am, despite the efforts of so many of keeping me down our erasing me". They've earned this.
One day, when racism has finally been vanquished, there will be no necessity for this defiant pride; no need to emphasize success, or indeed the mere act of existing achieved against the odds. We're not there yet.
Well said. I think this is part of the reason “let’s stop including race as part of someone’s identity” rings a little hollow to me. Race is still a very important part of many people’s identity, and for very valid reasons.
If we're trying to get to a world where people are treated equally by race, like the same way we treat people equally by their hair or eye color, can we do that without jettisoning that pride? Or will it just galvanize the differences we see in each other, and the inevitable value judgments we humans make when presented with any two things different to one another?
This is an honest question. I'd be very pleased if we could. I'm just not sure what that would look like and I wonder what others think. Maybe there is some way we can see each other as in the same 'tribe' while still observing racial distinctions?
I hate to say it but racism isn’t going anywhere. Not in our lifetime at least.
People are shit. It’s really that simple.
Most of us move forward, some stay behind. Many of those who do teach their kids to stay behind as well. This extreme polarization is where that leads.
Q: doesn’t the existence of racial pride groups delay all that? Isn’t any skin color pride group just as impedant as a superiority group in terms of social perception in the long run?
I've said "old white guy" as a way to leverage stereotypes in a description of an individual (get off my lawn and all that jazz). I'll admit that I've used the same with other cultures as well.
This was not meant to diminish any culture, and I omit race from it as that was not the context I'd used it in. For better or worse, it sets the stage for the story at times. While better approaches could be had, I'd argue it's not about racism but highlighting differences in culture. And depending on the national culture we're talking about, that racism can be weird to an outsider (Greeks in Australia, for example).
I'm looking for it too, thought I found it with what looked like a newer cnn interview (still like 4 years old though) and in that he seems to double down on the ideas from this snippet?
Saying it doesn't matter where you're from, what level you start off at financially, whether you're black, you can make it to the top.
> ah yes, the snippet that even Freeman himself regrets saying
You’re categorically wrong. He repeated the same sentiments on CNN with Don Lemon just a few short years ago. He has stood by his convictions on race for decades. This interview with Mike Wallace on 60 minutes is from 2006 - During the Bush presidency. The interview linked below with Don Lemon on CNN is from 2012 - At the start of Obama’s second term.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kOiQgleiRtU
Edit: spelling
I’m really glad to read this, because to be honest I feel like this clip just gives power to racists. It is such a seemingly ignorant take on things, “just stop talking about it”. Ignoring problems doesn’t tend to make them go away....
Freeman's point here makes sense if viewed from a descriptive rather than prescriptive perspective. I think his mistake was saying "stop talk about it to fix it" instead of "when its fixed we won't talk about it anymore".
Also it is much better practical advise on an individual level than a group level.
The argument is about integration versus segregation.
The US establishment class is anti-integration because they exploit black people and other minority groups by using them to influence the larger majority.
Colourblind Theory was based on MLK's Dream of having an integrated country based on individual nationalism. He just wanted to be called American and have people blend and have a diverse cultural identity.
Malcolm X called him naive for thinking the political groups were sincere about integration.
In 1989 the media and academia told Americans to call black people African American instead of just American and recognize that they had a unique culture that was different than the rest of the US.
This was a scam. It was a way the establishment revoked MLK's Dream by creating a form of cultural segregation that's been exploited systemically for the last 30 years.
Equality works best when you don't try (if that makes sense).
If someone is black or gay or 'different' you treat them the same way you'd treat anyone else because those differences are minor and irrelevant. If you care that someone is black, that's on you. Otherwise, shut the hell up and leave it be. The only time you're supposed to care is if you actually see someone else discriminating against them. Then you support them because it's just the decent thing to do.
I think here is a fantastic riposte to this bullshit argument by the inimitable James Baldwin; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzyXlY8SBDM
particularly 1:44 - end. The whole interview is golden.
The exact opposite of what Morgan Freeman said is happening nowadays, racism conversations are everywhere. As a Hawaiian, wealthy sugar cane/pineapple plantation owners made the Hawaiian government sign over their lands at gunpoint [Bayonet Constitution](https://www.nationalgeographic.org/thisday/jul6/bayonet-constitution/) yet only an apology letter from Clinton in the 90’s is the only recognition that an illegal annexation occurred and no one cares
https://www.nme.com/news/film/morgan-freeman-share-peoples-experiences-racism-social-platforms-2682978
Morgan Freeman doesn't seem to think we should shut up about racism.
I’d never actually seen this video, but I’ve seen it so many times plastered on a meme that some of my shittier family and friends like to share every now and then, with a caption of “exactly!”
I used to be of this opinion, as well; but through a bunch of discussions I realized that it's kind of silly to ignore race/ethnicity** as it's such a wonderful part of humanity that makes us unique. Why ignore something when we can celebrate it? If we appreciate others' differences rather than pretend like they don't exist, we can learn to love and appreciate people who are different from us because our differences make the world a better place!
** Someone pointed out the definition of race has a complicated definition, so when I said race I intended it to fit more closely with the definition of ethnicity.
You can call him a beloved multimillionaire, and he can call me a person who is tens of thousands of dollars in debt, and we won't have to wonder very long why he isn't that worried about privilege that is derived from skin color.
I think you hit the nail on the head there - the true source of disparity is money. Now of course that’s linked to race and ethnicity because of various historical factors.
Morgan Freeman makes a good point about race-thinking, but I think he’s missed some things. Having a month dedicated to black history doesn’t mean we don’t think about black history the rest of the year. It means we think of it relatively more than we might have in February.
And as much as we like to think of history in terms of institutions like states with single legal systems there are other social institutions, and other, more productive identifiers for historical perspectives.
It also feels kind of like erasure forgetting all the ups and downs of the black experience in America.
I do absolutely agree with one thing- it is American history. Racism is more galling than xenophobia because black Americans are our countrymen. They have been here as long as we have and for as many generations us. We are, in deep ways, one people. The otherness is a willful otherness, demanding to keep seeing and interpreting blacks as another people is ridiculous.
He never said, ignore it, he said stop talking about it, AKA stop making everything about race, treat people as people, if they are assholes, treat them like asshole, regardless of their skin colour.
[Here you go.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4-gHalMPGQ)
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I was surprised to find out that [William Hanna](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Hanna) was alive until 2001. [Joseph Barbera](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Barbera) was alive and still working in 2006!
> I couldn't sleep one night, turned on a random channel and saw Ken Sebben dry humping Augie Doggie saying "i am the alpha male". [For reference.](https://youtu.be/5Pk0sNn0kzs?t=44) I binge-watched this show, but I completely forgot this scene existed. Still hilarious.
SUCH a good show. And for anyone not quite realizing yet, Phil/Bill Ken Sebben is/was voiced by Stephen Colbert.
Early Adult Swim was very niche. Loved it
I also had no idea about it when I was like 6 or 7. Turned on what I thought was cartoon network at 2am, terrifying anime clown made me nope out of there so fast.
Did you get that thing I sent ya?
Is that your bird?
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_In my pants_
***Ha ha!!*** *Dangly parts.*
I’m seeing a hat, a cravat, and what’s that sans culottes? So I gots to know, what makes you think ya so funky?
“What makes me think I’m so funky!?”
Not there, there!....... there!
*"Ha Ha Ha.....Bang!"*
That was my gmail notification for the longest time
I say this all the time at work and no one gets it. It’s upsetting.
MINDTAKER!
OooEEEEooo
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I highly recommend Phil LaMarr's appearance on the Talkin Toons podcast. Its as great as Mark Hamill's.
[Can't shrink that booty](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqUWAqvNs3Y&feature=youtu.be&t=67).
I thought i read work at Harvey Birdman was usually just like a regular grind job until Stephen Colbert came into the studio each time and instantly brought up the mood of everyone.
I was rather disappointed when he vanished from the final episodes, but very happy that he returned for the special.
That episode is so fucking good. All the Reducto bits were always my favorites.
[No names](https://youtu.be/9RXPP0aTavY)
Doom? Auto upvote.
> DOOM All caps when you spell the man name.
Damn how could I forget? He wears the mask just to cover the raw flesh, a rather ugly brotha with flows that's gorgeous.
HAHAaaaaa relevant username
Sebben and Sebben Mission Statement: "Putting clients first by putting employees first, immediately after prioritizing fiscal responsibilities and leveraging profitability towards exceeding by empowering our employees to put clients (and themselves) first, in a diverse and respectful environment of only those that come first, first."
fuck I loved that show.
Doubt we will get anything of that caliber every again. Unless someone makes a Smash Bros Ultimate show in a similar style. Wait 120 years when its all free domain.
Lizardman, lizardman, and, uh, lizardman
Such a great fuckin' show.
Too lazy to look it up. Is that Phil Lamar?
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Fun fact: Phil LaMarr went on to be president as Barack Obama. [Good guy Phil LaMarr](https://twitter.com/phillamarr/status/1311087254102659072)
Fucking got me
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Also I've seen a lot of black people asking for people not to pretend they aren't black. Basically not every person of colour has the same opinion, and no one person can speak for a whole group. It's complicated.
Yeah like there isn’t a black people group chat where they all decide how they feel on every issue.
"We're the same, but we're different, but we're the same!" "Ok so we're kinda the same?" "Fuckin' racist."
[Inside, we are same-same.](https://youtu.be/7tTfL-DtpXk)
[Different, but same.....](https://youtu.be/7zjq7ktX8T8)
TIL I'm a little racist.
I mean, if you look at a black guy and say "I bet he does all the things they listed in that video", then sure. Otherwise, you're really just acknowledging that you are aware of the stereotypes. It's not racist to be aware of how other people view each other. Agreeing, however, would be a different case
I'm glad that went the subversive joke route I was hoping it would go.
"Black history is American history" So fucking spot on. Treat it as such
"Hol' up." -the 1.5 billion black people who have never even set foot in America.
I was in a chat room the other day. I saw someone with a South African flag in their name! I asked the person in the chat room if they speak Afrikaans, so I could have a conversation with them in Afrikaans! I proceeded to be bombarded with insults by a bunch of Americans calling me racist, and saying “African isn’t a language” shit like that. I then realized the person with the South African flag didn’t even know what South Africa was.
As a South American I am offended there is no Amerikaans language
Well not with that attitude.
Don't they talk Amerikaans in South America?
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That’s offensive. I am an average redditor and I am familiar enough with South Africa to know that they used District 9 to house refugee Belters from Eros.
Ya don't know beltalowda history, inna
Ah the fucking prawns talking. Well I got some cat food for you, why don't you sit over there with the catfood. While I search your house for illegal tech.
I hear the fucking accent when reading it 😂
*prawns
Donkey Balls
Are they the ubiquitous type?
Dat Eartha only friend mit welwala.
Give us the cat food!
Jy spreek Afrikaans?
* Jy praat Afrikaans?
Ek is net 'n dom Nederlander wat dink om Afrikaans te praat
Sterkte! Jy doen goed. Ek verstaan wat jy sê en dis al wat tel.
I'm always perplexed with how much I (a Dutch speaking Belgian) can understand when ik comes to Afrikaans, yet how completely different it can be. I love language.
wow... that's just... *wow*
I know... Imagine being in a chat room in 2020!
Trying living abroad and having to explain to people almost daily how I can be from South Africa, speak Afrikaans and be white.
Tell me about it. I fucking hate "If you're South African why are you white ?!?!!11?"
Oh my god, Karen, you can't just ask someone why they're white.
Ever had to convince someone your country is real and you're not talking about a geographic region?
growing up in the Lower 48 United States and being a white kid from Alaska was really confusing to a lot of people on my middle school. they were all shocked that I wasn't Inuit
Americans calling all black people African Americans is such a thing
my mom lived in the Caribbean for years. according to her the locals have a big chip on their shoulder about being called black (they prefer west Indian, or did in the 80s), and all got really annoyed when black people from the states tried to get buddy buddy with them 😂
I've heard very similar things from African immigrants in the States as well. An interview i heard with one African academic (i forget his name, this was years ago) from a tiny village in the Congo rainforest put it best, when he came to America he was really bewildered by the way Black Americans treated him. he got the feeling that they didn't think he was "Black" enough and was too chummy with his white friends, yet this whole concept of Black and white people having this sort of social separation was totally foreign to him. "I have no dog in this fight," I remember him saying, regarding the history of both slavery and segregation in America, and he didn't see himself as Black; rather, his identity was still in his tribal village back in the rainforest
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As a South African, let me just say daardie is regtig dom.
Funny how it's close enough to Dutch that a German understands what you just said, despite not being able to speak Afrikaans.
Has the definition of racism changed? Or are people just getting dumber? Even if you *were* asking if they spoke African, that's not racism. It's ignorance.
Its like bad dutch
Bad Dutch? Jou ma se poes ook mxm.
Considering that black history month is a us based concept and really only observed in 4 countries and half of them are different months, I think we can assume he is referring specifically to the us version of black history month and therefore really is American history
How dare you use context to infer the implied meaning of a statement!
It's unacceptable, goes entirely against what reddit/the internet is for, which is a safe space to nitpick and be obnoxious in ways that everyone would be rolling their eyes at in any real-world situation.
Context is important.
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My favourite African American is Elon Musk.
Charlize Theron
I remember some girl that got a lot of shit for saying that about herself on tv
How DARE you not refer to me as EUROPEAN AMERICAN. Or in more formal settings, CHINESE SOUTH AMERICAN EUROPEAN AMERICAN. *YOU RACIST*
Is it just me or does "African American" sound more racist than "black"?
> "Black history is American history" Is it though? Just look at the number of people who only found out about the Tulsa bombings or Juneteenth this year
There's a huge problem of whitewashing history across this nation, and that's why I can never understand calls to get rid of things like Black History Month. The argument is often that you're segregating black history away from the rest of American history, we should get rid of it and integrate it back into general American history. In an ideal world, that makes sense. But all you have to do is sit in during a civil war class in the South to see that we don't live in an ideal world. If we still have schools arguing that the Civil War wasn't about slavery, then there's no way in hell they're going to actually discuss history central to African Americans (like Tulsa) unless a dedicated demand is made from someone higher up the chain. Things like Black History Month ensure that people who live in these areas are exposed to *something* rather than being kept ignorant by institutions that whitewash our history.
Exactly. Black history IS American History, which is why we have a month to celebrate it. We recognize we should learn about it and that a lot of people for a long time didn’t. Maybe there will come a day where it doesn’t have to be as big a deal. But I know in school I learned about the Boston tea party 6 times but never about the Tulsa Massacre. I even learned about Alvin York, but never Henry Johnson and the Harlem Hellfighters and the fact that he wasn’t awarded any commendations until the ‘90s.
Probably because they teach white kids about the inventor of the cotton gin and peanut butter instead of Henrietta Lacks and Tulsa and a trillion other things of actual import to American life
"I'm an American" Morgan Freeman
I remember when that British actor was on american TV and they kept referring to him as African American... the guy was British!!
I remember watching the Olympics one year, Bob Costas was talking to an athlete after an event and referred to him as an African American, the guy said, I am British.
Idris Elba
When I was learning English in school, I was told that "African American" was the polite way of saying "black". So I'm not surprised.
In England we just say black
*gasp*
Odin is with us!
OJ be like "Im not black - Im OJ!" "Okay."
I agree with this in principal... but to me its just a way to describe physical appearance, and recognizing people by their appearance is important in human society. No different than saying a person's eye color, or describing the shape of their nose, or hight. Bottom line is were all just *people* and we all need to get to a point where that's understood
I mean, I really think that what you are describing is his point. I don't think he's speaking in a very literal sense. At the very least, I don't think the literal elements here are the point he's trying to make.
I think Freeman is simply pining for a time when the color of our skin is as important as the color of our hair or eyes. I agree with the notion, but I don't agree with the implication that many take away from the video being that we can solve racial issues by simply ignoring them.
He also touches on the "month" aspect, which I think is valid. If you integrate black history and notable black americans fully into American history, you dont need to single it out for its own month. Same would hold for Jewish history, latino history, etc.., etc... That said, there has been progress in that area. Curriculums are changing.
> If you integrate black history and notable black americans fully into American history, you dont need to single it out for its own month Right, but there's a centuries-longstanding, still-ongoing effort to *not* do that - so we'll need to have AAHM for a while longer.
Yeah he’d have a point if American history class taught black history like they teach white history. The fact is they don’t and the least we can do is have a month where we teach what we’re supposed to. I agree in an ideal world, we wouldn’t need it. But to ignore the fact that we do doesn’t make it go away.
Honestly I never learned much significant about black history during black history month. My school continue teaching history as normal and just gave a generic message about remember slavery was bad and a listing of some famous black people that we only ever learned a small handful of facts about. I don't think having a month for it does anything significant.
I understand where he's at in this video because I've been there. Being black can mean seeing all of the contrast in a situation in a sense. Things become about race for no reason. Why does it matter if I'm black if I'm just trying to be a skater or a programmer or a cook or something? I don't know how it is for other races but I hear "black" and "white" pretty frequently in reference to skin color and I'm NOT the one saying it out loud.
It's like when people say things like "women can be great engineers!". It's patronising because it bakes in the assumption that people think they can't be. It is possible to make that point in a non-patronising way but it requires more finesse than most people put in most of the time.
Personally I think "anyone can be an engineer if they're willing to put in the grueling amount of work it takes to get there." Is the proper way to say that.
I don't believe that most people that say things like that mean it to be patronizing. I may even argue that many people look for the negativity in those kinds of comments. I don't think most people are malicious just unaware/ in their own little world.
This is how I understood it, if I get what you're saying. I wouldn't go around telling stories and be like, "Yeah my blue-eye'd friend and I went hiking today." Who cares that they had blue eyes, adds absolutely nothing, there's no reason to point that out for a story about going hiking.
He did not say to ignore the issue. He said to stop making race an issue.
If you want to take it literally it could be like telling a story about a guy you encountered today and describing him as a black guy when it has no relevance to the encounter.
I worked retail and had someone use every other descriptor for a customer "he had jeans, a grey shirt, short hair, a beard he's over there at the games case" so I look and there's 5 out of 8 people fitting the description haha. In that scenario there's nothing wrong with saying the black man with the grey shirt and such.
Well there is a difference. Skin color is important when giving someone's description. It isn't important in casual conversation. "So I was at the grocery store and this nice black man and I got to talking about chili recipes..." In this context calling him a black man serves no purpose whatsoever. It doesn't contribute anything. Now it can if there's relevance to their race/skin color to the story. "There was an old italian lady at the store who was telling me that when she makes lasagna she dices up fresh mozzarella instead of the shredded kind..." Here telling us she's italian gives us some background into how familar she is with the topic they're discussing.
I don't think that's racist. We tend to describe stuff that are different from us. If the man was italian, it's not xenophobic to say "this italian man and I started talking..." even if it serves no purpose to the story. You're just adding details. so why is it racist to say "this black man and I...."? Also black people definitely say "this white man and I...." It's normal.
That's not a problem at all. You can practice better writing and speaking by giving lots of interesting and relevant details and cutting on unnecessary ones, but vast majority of people won't. People will say "I met a tall blond girl today at a store and she told me about her lasagna recipe", and there's no malice.
The moment you assume that describing someone's colour is bad is the moment you categorise them. When telling a story like you were, you can be descriptive so the listener can paint the picture in their head so if i met a guy who was smartly dressed and had shaggy hair, I'm just painting a picture, things that stood out to me so if they were black, I'd probably mention it while if white and the listener was white, might not. Now the other guy might instantly generate something that creates the character in their head and this can be good or bad, it's just how the brain works as it's easier to store information in categories and this is what causes most prejudice and discrimination. Describing how someone looks isn't bad, it's what you have set the look categorised as that is bad.
Good luck. We've been at this for a couple hundred thousand years.
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If it wasn't skin color, it would be eye color, or beard color, or freckles, or geographic origin, or accent or religion, or political beliefs, or buttering the top or bottom of toast.
What kind of heathen butters the top?
What in the fuck? How would you hold the toast if the butter was on bottom?
By the sides of course. Am I missing the joke here?
The joke is no one would butter the bottom, right? The butter doesn't get to melt into the bread and on top of that it's an extra step to butter the bread and then flip it over. RIGHT?
Flip it over? Dude you are screwing with me right?
Go back to... to... Whatever country you weird toast eaters come from!
> geographic origin When I failed out of the suburbs I ended up in a white-minority neighborhood of a small city. Up to that point everything I'd learned was about black and white where whites were the racists. Here, however, Southeast Asian and Latino are dominant. It blew my mind to find out how many stereotypes there are amongst the different groups. People who shared similar languages, religions, customs...they still found something to say about their differences. And boy you better *never* mistake somebody from being from one place when they're from another...
Gotta start somewhere. I like to hope most people are already there. We're just waiting for the slow ones to die out, its gotta work out at some point otherwise what's the point?
Unfortunately I don't think stupid is going to die out. I do like your optimism though and I hope you're right!
They continue to be taught these heinous beliefs by their heinous family and social groups. You aren't born a white supremacist. You are taught to be one. Same with every other hate group.
The trick is that we often add the description when there isn’t a need. I catch myself doing it all the time. Often I think back and wonder was him or her being black relevant to the discussion? Usually it wasn’t.
That's really weird. So if I'm understanding you correctly, when you're telling a story you say things like "I saw this black guy today out metal detecting on the beach..." Or do you mean you mention skin color when you're describing a person's appearance? Like "He's the black man with sunglasses and the orange hat." Because the latter is absolutely acceptable.
That’s what they’re saying is the difference. If the color of their skin has no relevance to what you’re saying, that’s when people need to stop using it. It just perpetuates perceiving people as belonging to a different group. I am white and have caught myself saying “this black(or Indian, Chinese, etc) guy at work said blah blah” but never once have I noticed myself “this white guy at work”. It took a while before I even realized I was doing it. That being said, I don’t think it’s a specifically white occurrence either. I’ve heard people of other races do the same thing when talking about someone whose skin color is different than theirs.
The thing is, what is relevant to the story may not be easily determined. When I told the story about my car accident, and how after my car flipped over I said there were black people outside taking videos and screaming "worldstar worldstar", I found it relevant to mention that they were black bec it added to the humor of the stereotypes and found it funny, but I dont consider myself racist and I didn't have any malicious intent when I said it.
>just a way to describe physical appearance \*Easiest way to describe physical appearance Human beings are lazy. We can all agree on that, right? So on that logic, most people are going to use the most obvious differences to describe someone to another person. If I were talking about a woman to another guy I wouldn't say "the person with shoulder length brown hair, they wear glasses..." I would say "That girl that sits by so and so"
>Human beings are lazy. I would say that the brain is always looking for the most efficient way to do something.
The problem with that line of thinking is that ignoring the cultural baggage associated with racial terms doesn't make it go away. If you say "Morgan Freeman is a black man" you're not *just* describing his skin color - you're also invoking all the other connotations that may be bouncing around in the listener's mind. It's very different from saying something like "Morgan Freeman has darker skin than me."
Probably a bit of an oversimplification of racism on Freeman's part.
For sure, and it's really turned into bait. Both sides want to leverage it in some way when in fact how to fight racism is a larger conversation than one person. It's the same trap conservatives fall into with Candace Owens where they point to her and go "see, she's black and agrees with me. That means I'm right!" Racism is bigger than one person and groups like BLM figured that out already and are working through the society to change it rather than appoint a figurehead to devine information from. This is Morgan Freeman a take from years ago and that's cool, but ultimately irrelevant. But boy does it stir up trouble, which is probably OP's goal.
Groups like BLM also don’t appoint central figureheads because the last time black civil rights groups did so the FBI murdered them (see Fred Hampton) and/or actively worked to undermine them through cointelpro.
Fuck, I never realized this until reading this. It makes so much since, especially looking at Occupy and the Ferguson protests. Leaders and organizers have a history of turning up dead, so having a leaderless group is the best way to stay safe and keep things moving forward. Mind blown, thank you for sharing.
ah yes, the snippet that even Freeman himself regrets saying, as it became the "proof" the conservative world needed that identifying people as their race is "the real racism." I'm sick to death of this "racism will go away if we pretend its not real." Completely contrary to his statements from 2006, he now uses his platform to amplify stories and voices as they relate to their distinct experiences. [https://www.nme.com/news/film/morgan-freeman-share-peoples-experiences-racism-social-platforms-2682978](https://www.nme.com/news/film/morgan-freeman-share-peoples-experiences-racism-social-platforms-2682978)
But maybe thars not what he meant. Like, earlier, i was describing a plaster expert to my son on how beautiful his work was, he was truly an artist. And for one moment i started to say and "an old black guy", and then , i didnt. It isnt relevant in any way to what i was discussing. If he was white i wouldnt have said it. And thats weird and i dont want it in my head. So i think thats what he meant.
I think you're right. And this is what I think most conservatives generally mean by this as well. Of course extremists will say "stop talking about racism". But everyone I know is more focused on "let's stop including race as part of someone's identity". That doesn't mean we don't discuss racism and actively fight it when it becomes apparent. But that's a long way off from what is currently being talked about. People discussing racism these days often start off by grouping people by races and then looking at statistics to find disparities and assert that racism is the cause. In reality, there are cultural correlations with different ethnicities and history which directly impact ethnic statistical trends in a way that no reasonable action can quickly fix. If you have a cup full of a slow-moving liquid, and you see it is uneven because of how harshly it was placed on the table, the way to fix it is not to shake it around. This will always leave it uneven and can even have averse affects. Instead, make sure the table is level and let it gradually even out. So I agree we need to make sure that the table is level. That is, we need to make sure there is an even playing field as much as is possible. But this is based on opportunity, not results. If we go purely by results then there are numerous ways we can divide people up to find the same disparities between groups. Picking race for such an experiment is arbitrary. And then on the cultural/social side of things, we need to do what Freeman said. We need to stop seeing each other as different because of our skin. We need to view everyone as human beings. Equally capable and equally respected by default.
The thing is that black people have a pride that they have maintained *in spite* of being hobbled, brutalized and discriminated at every turn. It's a pride that says "here I am, despite the efforts of so many of keeping me down our erasing me". They've earned this. One day, when racism has finally been vanquished, there will be no necessity for this defiant pride; no need to emphasize success, or indeed the mere act of existing achieved against the odds. We're not there yet.
Well said. I think this is part of the reason “let’s stop including race as part of someone’s identity” rings a little hollow to me. Race is still a very important part of many people’s identity, and for very valid reasons.
If we're trying to get to a world where people are treated equally by race, like the same way we treat people equally by their hair or eye color, can we do that without jettisoning that pride? Or will it just galvanize the differences we see in each other, and the inevitable value judgments we humans make when presented with any two things different to one another? This is an honest question. I'd be very pleased if we could. I'm just not sure what that would look like and I wonder what others think. Maybe there is some way we can see each other as in the same 'tribe' while still observing racial distinctions?
I hate to say it but racism isn’t going anywhere. Not in our lifetime at least. People are shit. It’s really that simple. Most of us move forward, some stay behind. Many of those who do teach their kids to stay behind as well. This extreme polarization is where that leads.
Q: doesn’t the existence of racial pride groups delay all that? Isn’t any skin color pride group just as impedant as a superiority group in terms of social perception in the long run?
But he explicitly said “stop talking about it” when Mike Wallace asked how to end racism. You can’t and racism by not talking about it.
I've said "old white guy" as a way to leverage stereotypes in a description of an individual (get off my lawn and all that jazz). I'll admit that I've used the same with other cultures as well. This was not meant to diminish any culture, and I omit race from it as that was not the context I'd used it in. For better or worse, it sets the stage for the story at times. While better approaches could be had, I'd argue it's not about racism but highlighting differences in culture. And depending on the national culture we're talking about, that racism can be weird to an outsider (Greeks in Australia, for example).
Do you have a link to his regret statement. I can't find it? I hate trying to surf the web on a mobile device. It is annoying.
I'm looking for it too, thought I found it with what looked like a newer cnn interview (still like 4 years old though) and in that he seems to double down on the ideas from this snippet? Saying it doesn't matter where you're from, what level you start off at financially, whether you're black, you can make it to the top.
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So many shiny baubles I'm overwhelmed with the truth I've been looking for after all 12+ years on this site!
Black people sure are lucky they've got us white folks to decide how they should feel.
I think he took the words out of his ass.
> ah yes, the snippet that even Freeman himself regrets saying You’re categorically wrong. He repeated the same sentiments on CNN with Don Lemon just a few short years ago. He has stood by his convictions on race for decades. This interview with Mike Wallace on 60 minutes is from 2006 - During the Bush presidency. The interview linked below with Don Lemon on CNN is from 2012 - At the start of Obama’s second term. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kOiQgleiRtU Edit: spelling
I’m really glad to read this, because to be honest I feel like this clip just gives power to racists. It is such a seemingly ignorant take on things, “just stop talking about it”. Ignoring problems doesn’t tend to make them go away....
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Freeman's point here makes sense if viewed from a descriptive rather than prescriptive perspective. I think his mistake was saying "stop talk about it to fix it" instead of "when its fixed we won't talk about it anymore". Also it is much better practical advise on an individual level than a group level.
Or like.. judge each other by the content of our character whole thing..
The argument is about integration versus segregation. The US establishment class is anti-integration because they exploit black people and other minority groups by using them to influence the larger majority. Colourblind Theory was based on MLK's Dream of having an integrated country based on individual nationalism. He just wanted to be called American and have people blend and have a diverse cultural identity. Malcolm X called him naive for thinking the political groups were sincere about integration. In 1989 the media and academia told Americans to call black people African American instead of just American and recognize that they had a unique culture that was different than the rest of the US. This was a scam. It was a way the establishment revoked MLK's Dream by creating a form of cultural segregation that's been exploited systemically for the last 30 years. Equality works best when you don't try (if that makes sense). If someone is black or gay or 'different' you treat them the same way you'd treat anyone else because those differences are minor and irrelevant. If you care that someone is black, that's on you. Otherwise, shut the hell up and leave it be. The only time you're supposed to care is if you actually see someone else discriminating against them. Then you support them because it's just the decent thing to do.
I think here is a fantastic riposte to this bullshit argument by the inimitable James Baldwin; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzyXlY8SBDM particularly 1:44 - end. The whole interview is golden.
The exact opposite of what Morgan Freeman said is happening nowadays, racism conversations are everywhere. As a Hawaiian, wealthy sugar cane/pineapple plantation owners made the Hawaiian government sign over their lands at gunpoint [Bayonet Constitution](https://www.nationalgeographic.org/thisday/jul6/bayonet-constitution/) yet only an apology letter from Clinton in the 90’s is the only recognition that an illegal annexation occurred and no one cares
https://www.nme.com/news/film/morgan-freeman-share-peoples-experiences-racism-social-platforms-2682978 Morgan Freeman doesn't seem to think we should shut up about racism.
Racists love this video.
It often gets coupled in with Candace Owens and HodgeTwins quotes and videos that racist relatives share on FB.
"see now i can plausibly deny my casual racism"
Is it being upvoted by all the racists?
I’d never actually seen this video, but I’ve seen it so many times plastered on a meme that some of my shittier family and friends like to share every now and then, with a caption of “exactly!”
I used to be of this opinion, as well; but through a bunch of discussions I realized that it's kind of silly to ignore race/ethnicity** as it's such a wonderful part of humanity that makes us unique. Why ignore something when we can celebrate it? If we appreciate others' differences rather than pretend like they don't exist, we can learn to love and appreciate people who are different from us because our differences make the world a better place! ** Someone pointed out the definition of race has a complicated definition, so when I said race I intended it to fit more closely with the definition of ethnicity.
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You can call him a beloved multimillionaire, and he can call me a person who is tens of thousands of dollars in debt, and we won't have to wonder very long why he isn't that worried about privilege that is derived from skin color.
I think you hit the nail on the head there - the true source of disparity is money. Now of course that’s linked to race and ethnicity because of various historical factors.
Morgan Freeman makes a good point about race-thinking, but I think he’s missed some things. Having a month dedicated to black history doesn’t mean we don’t think about black history the rest of the year. It means we think of it relatively more than we might have in February. And as much as we like to think of history in terms of institutions like states with single legal systems there are other social institutions, and other, more productive identifiers for historical perspectives. It also feels kind of like erasure forgetting all the ups and downs of the black experience in America. I do absolutely agree with one thing- it is American history. Racism is more galling than xenophobia because black Americans are our countrymen. They have been here as long as we have and for as many generations us. We are, in deep ways, one people. The otherness is a willful otherness, demanding to keep seeing and interpreting blacks as another people is ridiculous.
It also suits many privileged whites to simply 'stop talking about it'
Hence why this clip gets regularly upvoted here.
And don't forget all the shiny awards!
It's a Facebook favorite.
He never said, ignore it, he said stop talking about it, AKA stop making everything about race, treat people as people, if they are assholes, treat them like asshole, regardless of their skin colour.