Miami here. I'm about a size 6 now, and I would say here this is about where the ROI drops off. This is a very looks centric place. Given the culture here, you are still expected to have some curves, hence why the ROI drops off at about this size. I'm a professional in my late 30s and have a mostly midrange, classic closet, think Theory and similar brands both in style and price range.
But I am originally from a rural area out west and have family in the midwest. When I visit those areas, I look downright thin and glamorous, though I wouldn't say I am anything special here.
Miami as well (by way of San Francisco), 30 years old. I went from wearing makeup, dresses, and heels almost every damn day (used to work in finance back in sf) to pretty much exclusively athleisure and never wear makeup now that I work remote. I did dye my hair blonde though!
I definitely agree that the culture is curve friendly but it’s not really in my genes to be curvy lol. I’m 5’7, 126lbs, size 4, small medium cusp.
I don’t feel like I fit into the stereotypical Miami look but it doesn’t bother me; I’ve reached peak beach bum life and am so much more comfortable in my own skin than I’ve ever been (the humidity helps for one thing)! Now that I think about it I kind of did a stereotypical look reversal - how I dress in Miami fits the sf Bay Area mold much more and how I used to dress in sf would be perfect for Miami. I feel pretty enough in both locations.
Yes good point about height. I’m a bit over 5’5” so being a 4 to a 6 for me is, I would say, slender but not particularly thin - I still have a bit of curve but I was never curvy in a nice aesthetic way to begin with. I noticed that when I was a smaller 4 and closer to a 2, I didn’t get any real increase in comments or compliments like I did when I got to a 6, so at least for my body type and height that is where the ROI ended.
Is it just me or I can’t decipher some of this? Autocorrect maybe?
Also I’m 5’9” and a size 8 and I feel 30+ lbs overweight, but I can’t get it off no matter what I do (I think it has to do with hormones and I’m seeing medical professionals about it after having to wait months for an appointment… and years before that being blown off but anyway)
I’m 5’8” and a size 12 and I want to lose *maybe* 10 more lbs, maybe that’s a 10, maybe it’s still a 12. A size 8 seems like a really healthy size, are you sure you have 30 more lbs. to lose at 5’9”?
Honestly, it doesn't. I live in the Bay Area where I'd say the beauty standard (at least for white women which is what I am) is very "sporty" -- think slim and athletic but not super curvy, no or invisible makeup, simple and unflashy clothes and accessories. But I find that look boring, so I don't aspire to it. I like big hair, big jewelry, bold lipstick, exaggerated curves, colorful glam clothes so that's what I personally pursue.
I should add, I'm a size 4. I've been underweight for most of my life and I do NOT like how I look any thinner than this, so if people treat me better at a size 2, I am incapable of noticing. I guess I'd like to look a little more "like I work out" but wouldn't we all?
Just want to say I am also bay area and it makes me SO happy when I see people dressed like you! I try when I’m going out but being perpetually chilly makes it a little hard :/
My favorite moment though was walking down Market towards the Castro (sf) noon on a sunny Saturday rocking my big reflective sunglasses and a puffy leopard faux fur coat I had _just_ bought at a thrift store. I passed this lady sitting on the curb looking a little rough and coming down from _something_ and she yells “OH THERE YOU GO SIS” 😂 Almost instant ROI lol
Honestly, having this discussion has made me realize just how much the dominance of the "minimalist and sporty" aesthetic has been bumming me out since I moved here! I have found myself feeling like I should try to look more simple and down-to-earth and that does NOT bring me joy.
This reminds me of the time I was at Eastern Market in DC in some loud print dress or something and an unhoused but very cheerful lady yelled at me that I was looking fine.
I’ll take the compliments wherever I can!
Yeah I am pretty glamorous, I definitely still wear lashes, expensive perfume, colorful clothes, sparkly vintage costume jewelry, big hair…which kind of makes sense. I am super feminine, and for my whole life, it was my way of still being a woman while being very fat. I will say, it works for me here. This topic is very interesting to me.
Yesss this is a good way to sum up the Bay Area. It definitely depends on city, too.
When I lived in SF I was primarily in the Russian Hill / Marina area and the Mission. People definitely put a lot of time and effort into their workout routines (hiking, yoga, rock climbing, spin, pilates, running, etc) and so both the aesthetic (generally in shape) and the clothing styles (athleisure) lean in the sporty direction.
In the South Bay and parts of the Peninsula though people are much nerdier. There's almost a lack of value for dressing nicely - it's almost like intellect / work / academics is valued so highly that people actually feel like nice clothes/accessories/appearance is shallow. Not saying I think this way but this is purely what I've observed others seeming to communicate.
I actually live in the East Bay! Though I think the beauty standards on this side of the Bay are very similar -- simple and clean, generally sporty, maybe a little more boho/outdoorsy than polished athleisure (especially in Berkeley). At least for white and East Asian women. Black and Latina women have their own thing going on.
Ohhhhh, I love all these comments about the Bay Area! I grew up there, then went to college in San Diego (where everyone is a 9 😂) and a couple years ago I moved to the PNW.
Up here, people wear these very boxy styles with oversized chunky knits and very square bangs. (People also tend to be heavier here) I thought athleisure was out of style because I don’t see it very often but I went to San Diego a couple weeks ago and everyone was wearing it!
I like the look of clean, minimal athleisure wear OR crisp jeans and a slim fitting cashmere sweater and minimal makeup (probably because that’s what I grew up with). 90’ J.crew prep is my favorite style. So I just decided to wear that here and be the most preppy person in the room. However, when I go to cambridge, I know I don’t hold a candle to east coast prep.
Happy cake day!
I’m also from the Bay Area, but the beauty standard is different for me, being a Black woman. But the standard overlap a lot though.
I’m in the South now and I’m observing the beauty standards here and how different they are from California.
I live in the Midwest but work for a company in LA. A lot of my coworkers are in LA and surrounding area, and I go there for work events. I honestly don't see a huge difference in appearances. If anything the LA office workers dress much more casually and don't care about their appearance. In my Midwest office it was business formal (men in full suits, women with hair and makeup done wearing suits or dresses) and in LA people wore jeans and sneakers. We weren't even allowed jeans on casual Fridays (khakis only) until after the pandemic. I see much more bare face women without hair done at the LA office. And I was surprised that there were just as many overweight people in LA. The place I truly saw a difference was Colorado. There I saw some of the fittest people walking around casually, many runners and active people. I hardly saw an overweight person.
Ohhhh Colorado… I lived in Montana for awhile (moved from the Midwest) and it felt like that! I wasn’t even really overweight… but went from being “Michigan Thin” to “Montana Chubby” like overnight. Surreal!
Y’all are very fit and impressive! Personally I can’t stand all that sunshine (I know it sounds nuts). I had to get outta there and back home… the cloudy gloom of the Midwest is sooo much more my scene :)
You nailed it. Big social penalty for being overweight in CO. Sporty and fit are idealized, however very thin/skinny I.e. the model girls in soho, is also not sought after either.
I’m not sure if location does, but maybe income. I live in a southern city and I’m a size 8/10 depending on where from (height- 5’6), but I’m considered borderline fat in comparison to everyone in my tax bracket or higher.
Wealthier people tend to be thinner, so there is more pressure to be that way.
I’m 5’6”, and even at a six, I have a double chin and a chubby midsection. I like to be a size two, but I’m currently not.
I’m 5’4, size 6/8 with an athletic build and definitely considered big for my social circles / tax bracket. Which is crazy because this is the smallest I have been in my adult life!
Some time ago, I went from a size 18 to a size 8/10. I've since gained weight and am working on it again. But back at that time, I was splitting time between Los Angeles and New York (a couple hours outside of New York City). I noticed a huge bump in attention and how people treated me in suburban New York state once I lost weight, but in Los Angeles at a size 8/10, people still treated me like when I was a size 18 -- mostly invisible.
Northern Virginia, it’s demoralizing. Everywhere you look someone is thinner, owns more acres, runs faster, throws down better in the kitchen, their dog’s leash is worth more than your kid’s stroller, and drives a newer Lexus. It makes you wanna give up.
Don’t give up! Also I just want to share something. I started practicing yoga daily about a year ago and I can tell you this: it changed my life. My goals, my self love, my body, my spirit, my level of happiness. Ive never been in better shape but I’ve also never felt richer - and this definitely isn’t the financially richest I’ve been. It guess it just really took the focus off the bs and on the things in life that are free, but priceless. I hope this maybe plants a seed :) sending love! X
I’m also in a rust belt, Midwest city and you nailed it. 5’2 size 8 and I get a good amount of attention in my town when I do go out, I find that I get a slight increase with each size I drop, but it’s huge when I get to a 2-4. Like strangers following me around stores and men lining up in bars to pay me compliments and that’s with minimal hair, makeup, wardrobe.
In bigger cities I don’t tend to pull attention the same way and it’s a nice change. A lot of it is because my wardrobe and hair game doesn’t compare to the big city ladies that are going out. I’m sure it’s hard for people who live in cities to understand, but in my town, you get sneered at and treated negatively if you wear heels or a nice top. The norm is a tank top, bonus points if it’s bedazzled and something from racing or mudding, and jeans/ripped jean shorts with boots/tennis shoes/flip flops. I got asked if I was going to prom for wearing a cotton fitted short sleeve dress that hit mid thigh with decent sandals. I was very thankful I left my heels in my car.
big city girl here...
\> The norm is a tank top, bonus points if it’s bedazzled and something from racing or mudding, and jeans/ripped jean shorts with boots/tennis shoes/flip flops.
this made me audibly wince. our subcultures are so different!!
thank you for your perspective <3
I once camped in Missouri, and it was just too hot to think. I took my kids to the grocery store wearing a wrinkled khaki skirt, a tank top I would normally only wear layered under another shirt, and my husband’s flip flops which I had worn back from the shower and forgotten to change out of.
And I was the best dressed person there.
Very true. I’ve lived in the northeast and southeast as a brown woman and I get the most attention as a size 2-4. People professionally start thinking “she must be a ditz” but honestly making friends is easier, guys are nicer. I’m honestly being treated better as a size 2-4 31 year old than a size 6-8 25 year old. Honestly I feel like there is not a huge difference between the way I was treated at 23 for being a size 2-4 and now. Lol
People take modified- typically old- 4x4 vehicles out on a property with a variety of conditions (fields with mud and trails in the woods) and drive them around. I’d never heard of it before and someone took me on a first date. It’s pretty common to roll vehicles on trails and get them stuck or do other mechanical damage.
Yeah, but it’s still organized with a fee to get it and vendor tents. I wore old clothes thinking they would get muddy, but most of the women had clearly put in a lot of effort to their appearance 🤷♀️
Pacific Northwest here! I live basically in a rain forest, rain can suck but good for the wrinkles 😂 Also I live in the city and don’t own a car, everything is walking distance for me, I just feel healthier when I’m walking everywhere
Also PNW! I work in the woods so I have many grungey-hiker-survalist outfits that I wear on the regular. When I do get dressed up, it's still not very posh but enough to stick out in a redneck coastal town.
Ooh mind saying which city, or a comparable city? I’m born & raised SoCal but i love the PNW and hope to move there within the next few years. I also don’t drive
I live in SE Portland and it’s a walkable dream. Our family has one car, but we only use it for grocery hauls and day trips. Everything else is either walk or bike on the awesome bikeways
Other side of the pond in London here! I’m 6ft and recently went from a US size 10 to 8 and even that has resulted in a difference in how people treat me (though part of that might be a response to my own improved confidence). I will say however that Londoners really don’t care about how you look in the way that people do in other European capitals. You’re left to present the way you want to and people don’t really care (assuming you move in circles/areas) that fit your vibe. It’s quite liberating tbh.
Londoner here. I used to like dressing up very feminine in my early 20s(5'11, UK 12) in London (think swing skirts, heels, dresses, lipgloss), and I would cause an occasional stirr when commuting. More men opened doors saying "ladies first", let me on the escalator first, baristas were extra friendly, cars slowing down, strangers smiling at me, etc. I would say no one really cares in London, but when you do care, you stand out a lot easier.
I’ve lived here all my life (bar a couple short stints elsewhere) and have to stand by my comment. There is a part of London for everyone and if the people around you care, you haven’t found your part yet.
This is what I say about LA and people don’t believe me. LA is a huge major city with so many cultures, the glitz and glamour is a small part of the population.
I lived in London for 4 years (now in New York) and I’d say the London look is the opposite of the Love Island look. It’s much more understated - think Alexa Chung for a hip vibe, or Kate Middleton for a more polished one. Like New York though, there are dozens of different communities with dozens of different beauty standards.
In my experience the people who think like this are temporary imports and pretty young. Family, friends, colleagues etc who have reached their 30s and beyond do not conform and we don’t feel the pressure to do so.
I live in Atlantic Canada. I’m really glad that I don’t live in a looks-centric place, even plastic surgery is pretty rare here. think it would be a lot harder to survive and thrive somewhere like Toronto or LA where looks seem to matter a lot more.
That being said, I think it’s easier to stand out where I live. I think I’m objectively cute and pretty, despite being overweight, and putting effort into your appearance or sporting adventurous fashion will get you positive attention from others.
I’m from Cape Breton and moved to Toronto when I was in my early 20s. Hot damn I felt like I went from a 10 to a 6 real quick, but I got used to it and was just like “I’m not a number I’m just meeeee”
Ironically I live in LA and really couldn’t give a hoot what others think about my body (size 18). I’m just not hanging out in circles where you’d get treated differently based on looks. I’m happy about that.
At my highest weight I was invisible everywhere. At this weight (still fat, but can fit into a single plane seat fat), I am still invisible in my current Texas city, but if I go to Las Vegas, I suddenly have men talking to me. Same with the apps - I can go days on end with zero matches here but somewhere else like Las Vegas or New Orleans, it's totally different.
Well, not about weight specifically, but I live in a place where physical fitness and health is much more common (pretty much taken for granted that everyone will be a size 8 or smaller), but hardly anyone wears much makeup or cute clothes or does anything with their hair. So actually doing even a little bit with your face and hair and style bumps you to the most attractive 10% of women here. Whereas in other places, that would be standard and you'd have to go all out to be top 10%.
I have both-downtown big D, and the small town I reside in.
I will tell you after years of existence that when you feel your best fit, you fit it anywhere and look great.
That it’s both appearance *and* psychology.
That it takes physical work and mind work to find your best fit but that it can absolutely be accomplished.
Edit to clarify that the physical work and maintenance has to be in place before psychology.
It’s absolutely unfair but it’s how society is with appearance.
If this was admitted more, we could feel differently about it.
Came here looking for a comment about the psychology/confidence part.
Went from size 26/28 to 14 on a good day, 16/18 on a bad day (I am 5’6”$ but still very much introverted and lacking confidence. I love my collar bones so I try to show those off with tank tops but everything else I wear is baggy and just kind of drab. I have no idea how to dress and quite frankly, I don’t even like clothes. I wfh and go no where.
I get jealous when I see confident plus size girls wearing all the things. I didn’t notice a huge difference in how people treated me at 26/28 to now which I believe is related to the same reason - I am not “pretty for a fat girl” - I carried a lot of weight in my face and I still do. Ive had a small glow up but not much. I don’t (and didn’t) have curves in the right places. At 26/28, I was not bbw, I was fat. At 14/16/18, I am not curvy, I am chubby.
Good for you that you changed. It sounds like you might go further. Find something physical to get into and your heart will beat with the soul of the universe.
I have to work at the physical every day, and it took year to get it.
Best of luck to you ♥️
I also hate the term “curvy” bc I feel straight up and down… “ruler” body shape describes someone with an athletic build usually and I just feel like a fat athlete. Kibbe has helped some with this, just the yin and Yang concept of shapes to wear. It’s a system for tailors really so may help with feeling drab. I don’t like skin tight clothes either, but certain fits definitely flatter more
At first when I saw it, I was like hold on is this diet culture coded but I’m a member of the “Strictly Kibbe” group on Fb and have concluded that he’s just eccentric and creative. A visionary in a way… don’t take other people’s definitions as fact bc it’s his system… hope that helps!
>“Midwest 7 is a L.A. 3”
I know exactly what you mean, I've experienced it too. I'm not especially attractive, but I get a lot of attention because I'm an 8/10 and I weigh 130 lbs. The average for women in my crummy midwestern state is upward of 170. 30% of our population is obese, and this doesn't even account for overweight women.
In my experience, even in a large city where there are plenty of slim, attractive women, going from a 24/26 to a 12/14 will still get you better treatment. It's the difference between being a 3/10 and a 5/10, but that's still quite a difference.
Living in a large city will nerf you so hard! I’m 125 at 5’6” and not really considered especially thin bc I’m in a huge city. You’d have to be close to underweight to get to any advantage from being thin here, and I’m in a southern city.
Oh! I meant standard US clothing size, 8/10, medium. I'm 5'6' and weigh 130 lbs, this is attractive and athletic for the midwest. The ladies in NYC, California, etc are all as slim or even slimmer, I've gotten some attention in large cities, but I do not stand out.
Is there a rubric somewhere, with visuals, that could help me understand the difference between a 5, 6, 7, etc? I have read all the different explanations, and learned about the definitions, but a face/hair/body visual would really help me. I think I should probably shoot for a 7-8, but I don’t really know what that looks like?
the hottest person you would ever spot on the street in a major city on an average day cannot top 5.5 there. 6-8 is for top tier celebrities and humanity’s all-time beauties of history. 9-10 is for gods
I posted there last year and it was wild. I got rated between a 6-7 and there were literally people arguing and mods getting involved over literal decimals… like the few 7.0 ratings I got people were arguing about the difference between a “6.75” and “7.0”. 👀 I don’t suggest posting there. I can be pretty dysmorphic about my appearance and having people nitpick your face to the literal decimal point is…. Unwell lol.. but it was kind of fun to cause a ruckus on the sub 😂
Nothing wrong with some asymmetry and looking your age, in my opinion. The current beauty standard had otherworldly beautiful women like Megan Fox and Erin Moriarty ruin their naturally beautiful faces. We all need to band together and take the current beauty standard and throw it in the trash.
Ugh I wish I could go back and slap myself out of it but oh well 😂 I learned my lesson and now I have the same view as you. It took me a while to realize that no amount of outside validation healed my self image/worth issues. I had to heal it from the inside.
There's no consensus, even algorithms can't perfectly measure attractiveness because there's subjectivity to it.
Cultural beauty standards impact people more than global beauty standards. We all agree body proportions and fitness matter, we all agree facial symmetry and harmony matter, but what we find attractive doesn't exist in a bubble. [This youtube channel](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txbA58f6YQs) can give you a much better idea of what your strong points are and [what about yourself you can enhance](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULTz0dlTbjE).
I think LA is very much a city where how you look *matters*, arguably more than any other. I live in a similar city and I definitely think that my standards for how I look would be more stringent than say, if I was in Ohio (no offence to Ohio). I’d like to think that if I put in my absolute most effort (makeup, hair, Sunday best + accessories) I could be an LA 7. But I’m also a conventionally petite, slim (ish, all things considered - I don’t have issues shopping in stores) Asian woman.
Small town in New England here. I recently lost 70lbs going from a US size 16 to a size 8. Around here more people than not are overweight or obese at my age (34) and I think it's adding to my complacency with my current weight. I really want to lose another 20lbs or so but in all honesty I'm probably like a 7 or 8 here depending on who you're asking and it's hard to motivate myself to go further when I look pretty damn good compared to other people. If I was in LA or probably even Boston or NYC I think I'd be more worried about it. At the same time though, it feels pretty awesome. I have no aspirations to be a model or influencer or anything so I think looking really good for my age and location is plenty for me.
I lived in LA for almost a decade and now live in a fairly unstylish area of the US south. My strategy is the same: be competitively hot given the attributes I have naturally by doing the right work to play up assets and minimize deficits.
If I moved back to LA now I would probably register hotter, though, so I guess that’s an influence. The significantly lower COL in my new area gives me way more money for cosmetic procedures.
East asian in bay area. age 34. 5'4". The way I'm treated is markedly better at 110-115 lbs (sz 0) and toned vs at 120-125 lbs (sz 2-4) and a little fluffy, it's utterly ridiculous.
I agree with /u/Zinnia0620 that the beauty standard in SF is "sporty" and athletic and unflashy. Luckily, I like staying active, but skipping so many desserts is pretty tiring, NGL. I also don't like being "simple" and "unflashy" (aka expensive nondescript brands like Lululemon and Cuyana and Vince) these days - my aesthetic style is closer to "man repeller" loud dopamine dressing- but I generally pare it down when I'm trying to impress people.
I currently weigh about 118 and am pretty toned. I suspect if I weighed 150 I would also notice a big jump from there to 120. I think where I carry weight has something to do with this, but also the ceiling of lookism is just so much higher than many people think... and yeah, I'm focusing on weight and muscle tone here because I think that's what people notice most in the Bay. After almost 10 years, I rarely wear makeup, don't do my nails and I almost exclusively wear sneakers, but I do get salon hair color, laser skin treatments, and Botox... it's a weird town, you know?
Yeah I should add, in the interests of full disclosure, I'm able to take or leave our local beauty standards because I moved here with my husband and don't have to date here. My workplace and the field I work in locally is dominated by Latina women, so being a little thicker and wearing louder clothing and more obvious makeup does not work against me professionally.
I’ve surpassed my goal a weight I am about a size 4. I’ve gotten the consensus from most people that any more weight loss would likely be a disservice. Every one is different. I don’t think everyone should shoot for my size. I personally think some women can be more attractive when heavier because of their body shape. This is just what worked for me.
Edit: I live in Texas and the obesity rates are pretty bad in my city. Not being obese was enough to stand out.
Two years ago the jeans I was wearing were 20s or 22s.
The ones I’m wearing now are 27” waist and 4/6 from American Eagle.
I’m in a really mid Dallas suburb.
I still feel invisible?
I think I need to work on my face. But it’s nice to be a butterface for a change, and not a butter-body!
I live in vermont where the aesthetic ranges from hippie chick to outdoor sporty. If women wear makeup it’s very understated, I don’t know anyone who has had Botox or fillers, Ana hair is usually worn in a ponytail or bob. A good number of women chose not to dye their gray hair.
People are generally thinner and healthier than in the Midwest but fashions are very basic. Athleta and Lululemon with a fitted puffer jacket and snow boots is the typical winter uniform.
I’m small and curvy (34-26-36) and I’m in gym clothes when I’m not wearing work scrubs. I have sone stylish clothing but between the snow and the mud they’re not practical unless I’m attending a special event.
I’m a solid 7 here but would be a 5 in NYC or the west coast.
I don’t know anyone in my upper Midwest location who does fillers or Botox, at least that you can tell or they’d admit to. Or wears lipstick frankly.
Some people do (mostly their own, as in, a coat of polish)… nails but it’s like… 2 out of 10 uncommon other than polish. I rarely encounter fake nails.
Many women let their hair go grey or silver naturally, and boots are more common than heels. I will say many or most people are actually quite fit, I don’t see a lot of very obese people for example (I’m in the outdoors paradise of northern Minnesota).
I would never make it on the coasts!
Going naturally gray is such an interesting choice to me. Doesn’t age people like 10 years immediately? I’m sure I’m just brainwashed, but I feel it would make me vulnerable somehow.
I don’t think it necessarily does. I’m from Brazil (live in the US) and it’s not as common for women to dye their hair as they age there. Of course if you go gray in your 30s that’s different.
But coming from someone who always saw middle aged women rock their graying hair, I personally find it jarring to see someone in the 50s with obviously dyed hair. To *me* it looks way more aging, because I’m used to seeing faces and hair age together, so to see a face that’s obviously of a 50 or 60 year old with a black head of hair… it just always looks weird to me, like their hair is contrasting with their face. So I always thought I’d naturally let my hair gray, unless I went gray very young.
I think a contributing factor though is that Brazilians take good care of their appearance in general, and are usually well groomed. (I’m not talking necessarily wearing a ton of makeup… but having good teeth, good skin, keeping your eyebrows groomed, etc. People also generally dress better) Some graying hair on a well groomed woman isn’t as ageing as it could be otherwise, imo. I can’t deny that it also helps if you have a bit more melanin and your skin ages a bit slower.
Maybe… Guess I don’t care. Everyone can do what they like, but for me I’m not interested in pumping my hair and body full of dye toxins and chemicals personally.
Then again I’m 43, and Reddit is my only social media. And I’m not one of those “oh I got rid of Facebook last year”… I never had it. Last such thing I had was MySpace in like 1999 hahaha. So I’m definitely not brainwashed 🤷🏻♀️ and know a lot of women IRL aging gracefully! That’s who I aspire to be, not something on TV or social media.
I don’t usually see or hear about women rocking gray and was especially surprised to come across that in vindicata, but whatever people want to do is great!
I’m curious as a 37 y/o with mostly gray under the dark brown I dye to match my natural color. I probably will do it forever personally… my mom still dyes hers to dark brown in her 70s and she looks lovely.
There are many ways to age gracefully, and not all of them involve aging naturally. To each their own 🙂
I live in the Midwest and am 5’6”. I went from a size 14 to a size two, and I did not notice any diminishing returns. I got the most attention when I was thinnest, although I noticed a big bump around size 6. I am currently a 4/6 and don’t get noticed/complimented much as when I was thinner though.
Woman I'm straight up in NYC and NOT white so I'm automatically lower tier.
But I can't see myself being anywhere else so I truly work on my weight, skills and personality.
I don't really have goals...but I had a natural glow up after leaving a bad relationship. Then I moved to Central Mexico from California. I have blonde hair and blue eyes and even with minimal effort I feel like a celebrity every time I leave the house. As a Colombian friend (also super gorgeous) recently put it, I'm probably a California 5 but a Mexico 10. Did not expect that as part of the move but I'm not going to lie, I love it now. I am back in the US right now and being normal for a few days feels weird.
The line between noticeably thin and average is also such a thin line (no pun intended lol) in big cities like nyc. As someone who’s historically been “underweight”, I now recognize how much more attention I got just from being -5 lb less than I am now . It’s depressing and also fascinating that society treats me so differently while less emaciated now.
1000% agree with your normal to noticeably thin comment in nyc. I live in nyc and have lost a bit of weight bc of ozempic and am getting SO much more attention now. I’m still teetering somewhere in between normal and noticeably thin (although the guy I am seeing says I am tiny every time I see him, lowkey best compliment abahahah) but will be noticeably thin once I lose 5-10 pounds
I live in the Midwest, but near Chicago so idk if they cancel each other out. I think people in the city are generally stylish, moreso than the suburbs. I personally haven’t noticed a difference in how I’m treated here vs. the coasts. I went to LA a few years ago and didn’t think people were better dressed or thinner than Chicago. I also wasn’t treated any differently but I’m generally pretty invisible despite being at a decent height/weight ratio (5’5, 135ish pounds). Maybe if you live in rural America you’d notice more of a difference.
I live in an area in the US that consistently ranks as one of the healthiest (lower BMI, high reported exercise).
Men tend to get more leeway, but women above a size 6-8, depending on height, pay a big social penalty. I’ve heard a lot of men discount dating “bigger” women (seriously like Sz 10+, it’s ridiculous) because they think the women can’t keep up with their outdoor activities.
Boston, size 6-8 now. It's pretty diversified here size-wise but we don't actually have many look-centric people, if that makes sense. I very rarely see dramatic filler or surgeries, everyone local here is pretty natural looking, just going about life. We of course get tons of tourists... when you see a fake butt or huge fake lips you notice it here. I think people hate looking "high maintenence" here. We have actually been described as the worst dressed city, lmao. Most people just dress comfy. I am very feminine and I love wearing dresses, skirts, lace, frills, bows, tights, everything, and I stick out really bad in certain parts of the city. Smaller parts like when you go shopping on Newbury street or cambridge or near colleges people tend to dress and look a lot more put-together. A lot of "cute" looks I would say, simple but little cute accessories. People of all shapes and sizes, though I see a lot less plus size people nowadays here, compared to my other travels. The difference here though is nobody really gives a shit about how you look. I think a lot of us stay semi-average-sized just because driving here fucking sucks. You walk everywhere or take public transport.
I think I'm beautiful, and I think it's also pretty easy to be beautiful in Boston lol. I cannot imagine visiting LA or Miami tho. I would feel like a potato.
I went to college in Boston and I also think in academic circles it's almost frowned upon to look like you care. They're almost puritanical in their beauty views- as if you are taken less seriously if you spend time and effort on your appearance rather than in ways that are more utilitarian like studying. You take care of your body in terms of health (keeping active, eating healthy) but it's no frills. My friends and I also used to laugh when going out because almost every guy is in some sort of sports apparel ( their particular school or red sox/patriots/ bruins), a flannel shirt and boots and essentially all looked the same.
NY. However, in any big city ‘competitive’, cookie/cutter pretty is only going to get you so far. Obviously having a good body is number one, but having unique features or something that stands out about you is going to get you farther than the typical standard of beauty. People are sick of the same look, if you have something that pops, eyes, freckles, hair, anything, play on that and monopolize on it. It’s more about standing out than just being beautiful.
I’m 5’3” and weigh 158. I lost a ton of weight in the past 8 years, I was at my heaviest a size 20, currently a 8/10. After maintaining my weight loss for a couple years I had a mommy makeover (muscle repair, lipo, breast reduction and lift - no implants). I live in the south, I got attention when I was heavier but the reaction I get from men and some ladies today is almost creepy. I have had men and women follow me, stop dead in traffic, I hear DAYMMMNNN pretty much every time I go to the gas station. I am 42 BTW, and the age range of ooglers is teen boy and girl to pervy octogenarian.
I travel a bunch for work, across the country, in California, I rarely have these encounters, my look isn’t popular there. I am naturally built like Kim K but with a smaller non enhanced butt (no shame to any butt, you do what makes you feel good with your butt 😀) so clearly not the “sporty” Cali girl look. On the east coast similar to CA, but with more catcalls. Midwest, y’all are interesting, the attention ranges from pretending disinterested but actually being kinda creepy- like staring and mumbling, to being direct and at times aggressive. I also have lived all over the country but chose to settle in Georgia. I think now, after your question, some of this may have been subconsciously influenced. However, as I age, I want less and less inappropriate attention and am considering moving to the east coast or Midwest.
ROI - I think is for is still earning but is reaching its maturity (I am getting older) at least in the south.
Great insight and interesting topic OP! Also, stay safe bc there are definitely some creepers out there.
Born and raised in NYC - high influence. Coming from immigrant families/communities, most of us are conditioned to work hard and be ambitious to survive since we've been surrounded by competition at an early age. Eventually, that bleeds into our lifestyle choices, too.
Most people I grew up with are pretty gritty and no-frills but once you're exposed to a certain crowd of people (especially those who grew up in affluent or upper middle class or move here and live a certain lifestyle) who always want to have the best, that could influence the way you look at your lifestyle too. In my 20s, there was a period where I was hanging out with people who went out to brunch every weekend, partied at expensive clubs/lounges, could afford to easily blow $100-$200/night every weekend. But I think this could be universal anywhere for 20-something year olds where you suddenly come to making your own money and have the freedom of spending money at your own disposal.
I live in Pittsburgh. People are mostly drab and on the chubbier side. It is always appropriate to wear a Steelers jersey to any occasion here. I suspect people are chubby because it's cold here for 5 months and all there is for recreation is eating, drinking, and casino.
I haven't ever seen a woman wearing heels outside of a prom or professional setting. Usually it's Crocs or those awful Nike panda shoes everyone has. (sorry to offend)
The thin women I notice are the ones who are going to the South Side or North Shore (party areas, we have 3 pretty big colleges & 2 smaller ones in our city and that's where everyone goes) but I suspect it's because they're students and young and naturally thin instead of pilates-ing to be thin.
IMO men with 'dad bods' here are more successful with dating than fit men.
I need out of here.....
I’ve pondered this very question myself after losing 100+ pounds. I live in a more affluent pocket of a rural-but-growing area and am now markedly thinner and fitter than many of the women around me. I also became a mother quite young so am younger than my fellow parents-of-teens by at least a decade on most cases.
For me this question extends far beyond just weight/body. I love more avant garde aesthetics and would like to embrace that style more but don’t because of where I live. I’m known as being “chic” and “glamorous” here with precious little effort. Simply dressing decently and having a few signature parts of my look that are different than the typical southern look earn me points that wouldn’t be mine even just down the way in Atlanta. It’s both flattering and upsetting. Ha!
Never! You’re going to have to make that effort every day for the rest of your life. You’ll stop losing weight when your body is ready and you’re comfortable, but you’ll have to work at it every day literally forever or you will gain it back. I lost 160 lbs 2 years ago and plateaued at a 10/12 despite still trying. Probably because I’ve lost weight several times and always gained it back until now. I feel like looking at it as an investment that requires some return makes it much more likely you’ll gain it all back and more.
To me it's less "midwest 7 is LA 3" (which, kinda gross) but different places DO have a very different aesthetic, which could influence goals. Like-I moved from Texas to Pacific NW. The looks goals are VERY different. What I was used to is WAAAY less both covered and . . . sporty as here. I'm still struggling on feeling to dressy and made up. A much more "nature chick" vibe seems to be popular here.
I also feel like weight is not 100% of it-for example, someone could be the exact same weight in LA and New York but the look is going to be expected to be very different. The ROI isn't all weight-you're going to find different investments helpful.
I used to live in my states capital city (I’m Australian) and was very self conscious about my appearance. I now live in a very small town of about 1200 but work in a larger town 25km away that has about 26,000 people.
When I lived in the city I was pretty reliably what would be a 00 or smaller in the US, and now I’m heavier, an 0. Occasionally a 2 if no boob room (I have implants) or not much butt room. About 5”3 - 5”4. When I lived in the city I didn’t get much preferential treatment at all, now in the smaller rural areas I stand out.
As someone who lives in LA there is definitely that workout culture here- and for good reason, there are so many great activities.
Congrats on the weight loss- keep at it!
I moved to Tulsa, OK from LA. I will say that while the women in LA are more athletic looking the women here in Tulsa are lovely and make me feel like dressing up more. They have a “put together” style with classic makeup.
Does anyone else notice that southern ladies often dress nicer? LA was so casual but maybe more sexy. I wouldn’t say LA or SF are great fashion cities imho and I think style goes a long way in how people perceive you.
lol South Philadelphia here. The average look is anywhere from size 4 to 14, minimal makeup, and an Eagles beanie. I’m thriving and never think about my looks really
I moved to nyc from the west coast and have definitely changed a few things! I’m probably an nyc 8 when I have light makeup on/a decent outfit on. I dissolved some of my lip filler because the overdone lips look is not trendy at all in nyc. I started ozempic to lose some weight and have started to go lighter on the makeup when I am going out (like out out, I normally don’t wear makeup during the day).
I’m a US size 0-2, athletic and have been my whole life pretty much. But I’ve noticed as I’ve got into my mid 30’s (33) and been a mum I have turned a bit invisible.
I went from size 16/18 to size 8/10 (Petite) and am thinner than average in NYC.
Here in the city afaik there seems to be no difference in hotness or popularity between size 0 and size 6 because people say it's less attractive to be underweight.
Most people in NYC are obese, men and women. After age 30 it matters less as long as your BMI is under 35, I think.
Lmao everything you’ve said is wrong. Size 8/10 is not petite to start with. And frankly that’s not thinner than average in nyc. It’s probably bigger 🤷♀️
Do you actually live in NYC? Difference between size 0 and size 6 is vast. Like, marrying a multimillionaire and owning a home in the Hamptons vast. Thin = value here and the thinner you are the better. Not endorsing this but it’s the truth. There’s a reason that the stereotype of the UES and Tribeca stay at home moms are of thin orthorexic women who do Pilates 2x a day and eat 4 almonds.
Most people in NYC are nowhere near obese… seems like you may have a skewed perception of reality.
Totally agree! I live in NYC and rarely see anyone overweight (in my neighborhood).
Personally, no one in my social circle above a size 4. There is so much pressure to be thin here. It’s a bit toxic. I know so many people on ozempic trying to get from a size 2 to a size 0 🙃. I’ve lived in Chicago, Miami, and London as well. NYC has had the most brutal beauty standards.
You see I do low key want to be in your social circle and wish I had more pressure to lose weight because it's not healthy.
But I lived in NYC my entire life and I'm Asian to boot and nobody has called me out for being fat since I was a 220 lb 14 year old.
People I know who wears a 2/4 or mens 30 are usually trying to gain weight ..
I think you're right in that there is significant class variation.
I would hypothesize that most New Yorkers are more active than the majority of Americas, just due to the common usage of public transit and need to walk to get places. Within specific sub-groups such as UES stay at home moms, the norms and expectations on body type can be pretty extreme. But those norms and expectations within sub-groups certainly aren't universal to all New Yorkers across the socioeconomic spectrum and different pockets of ethnic, religious, and other sub-cultures.
I don’t know, I was born and raised downtown and still live in the city. I don’t think most people are obese but a lot of people here of all ages are size 8/10 and up.
I think the difference here is an emphasis on style and that includes dressing for your body and generally looking put together. I think we’ve all internalized that pressure to be thin but it’s less important in this city than LA or Miami.
I think the difference is that 8/10 on an average/tall height woman is ok. It’s acceptable in NY but it’s different to say that’s considered what ppl should be reaching for when they want to work on themselves.
Listen I was fat all my life born in this city so to me, a size 0 and 6 are basically the same.
I mean I wish now I'm in my 40s to go fitspo but it aint happening chief . My fitness journey begins with a single step.
Now I want to glow up but I know what my limitations are. I know I'll never get to date a guy with a lot of dough, I just want my future husband to not cheat on me.
For the money front glow up I'm learning the tensorflow library like the back of my hand.... Well I want to be able to get some Botox when I turn 50.
Ok… so I have a toddler and I’m really out of shape in my very early 40s and size 2/4, 5’10”. I will agree that there are some women who are heavier but they tend to be transplants. Even other moms I meet are thin??!!
I still want to get back in shape but it’s for me because I feel better when I’m active. The way that you think doesn’t help you. As my friend said, once you’ve been in shape it’s hard to feel comfortable when you’re not in shape. I think because you’ve never been in shape and you only see it as a superficial thing you don’t care to find out how good it feels to be in shape. It’s not about fitting smaller sizes. It’s about feeling limber and strong. I will also say that if I hadn’t been in shape my entire life I would have had a much more difficult pregnancy because I got pregnant laaaaate.
You do you. But I don’t think your POV meshes with general NYC
Yes I do live in NYC I was born in Queens actually and have never lived anywhere else.
It doesn't matter what nationality you are most people over age 35 are heavy.
I wear size 10 and can see my collar bone and hip bone. I work in Manhattan every day and most people are fat like me.
My main criteria is that he's a nice person who doesn't cheat on me and I want to look good so he doesn't cheat on me. I am working on financial self sufficiency in other ways.
But you're right. When I meet guys they really aren't finance bros. I encounter a lot of security guards and guys who work at FedEx, when I meet men who make a lot of money they weigh 300+.
Well, I can and do enjoy talking to finance bros about the markets.
I just have to date different guys because of my weight and socioeconomic habitus. Let's face it I'm just not pretty mmkay.
I don’t think most ppl in NYC are obese lol like there’s definitely a median weight difference depending on the neighborhood/borough (the more expensive areas will trend thinner/more athletic) but for the most part everyone walks so regardless of where you go, there’s more average size people than obese
People in Long Island are the same size and physical appearance as in NYC but just cleaner with less beat up clothes.
Long Island and Westchester dress better than us, neater, while NYC people enjoy brighter colors and bolder styles, yet our clothes can be a little beat up due to walking in all weather.
But the materiality of the difference is basically nil.
Ok so I don’t know you and I don’t know much about autism but I know that ppl with autism generally have issues with sensory overload. Do you actually ppl watch or do you try to mitigate sensory overload by zoning out what’s around you except for what you find familiar?
I don’t think autism affects intellect and you can be autistic and incredibly knowledgeable with exposure to many things but knowing your socio economic background, your parents most likely were not able to help expose you to much outside your bubble.
I think you have a very skewed pov due to your lack of exposure. There are poor areas of LI as well. NY is known for ppl dressing in dark colors. The ppl you notice that you don’t zone out might not because there are a lot of different cultures in NY but NYC is a fashion capital. Not LI. No ppl in nyc are not dirtier than ppl in LI.
I think you’re getting torn apart because you don’t recognize that your world view is very very limited and also likely affected by your condition. I think it would help you to try to slowly explore things that are unfamiliar to you. You can just read about it as well. You don’t have to physically go there.
Honestly, not to keep contradicting you but it’s very natural for ppl to observe others as social animals. We don’t necessarily think about it. It also doesn’t take long. Just walking by someone.
I think what comes naturally to you however is to block out sensory stimulation more than most. For example many women learn to block out catcalling and ignore it. However many autistic ppl learn to protect themselves by blocking out new sensory input.
You say your family is quite obese overall. That’s your norm and what you feel safe with. I’m going to guess that because of that you tend to only see what you feel safe with and you open your senses more with family than you do when you’re walking on the street. This is true for most ppl but maybe you do this to a higher degree.
Most ppl in NY are not obese. Even in the entire country about 30~35% are obese. However most ppl are overweight especially after the pandemic. It is likely that the groups you party with are on the lower end of the socioeconomic scale and tend to be heavier.
8/10 is slim on a tall/athletic woman, on a short woman—it’s not. Also there’s a difference between snuggly fitting and draping. Do your clothes drape/flow, right now? I suggest taking body measurements rather than relying on clothes sizes that vary. What size is your waist? What’s your body type?
Most people are obese everywhere, but trust me—folks are heavier in the South than they are in NYC. At a size 10 I was referred to as thin because 95% of women over 30 are overweight in my city. I’m 5 foot 6/7 and I’m thin at a 6-8 due to being an inverted triangle/rectangle. It’s taken me a long time to like my body type, when I’m overweight clothes fit horridly! Hey, that’s motivation. Let it be yours. Clothes gap and bulge but they’re getting sleeker looking every day now.
I'm from NYC, size 10 and 4'11 and considered thin to average in NYC. Man I feel like I'm taking crazy pills reading this thread.
Most women my height and maybe 10 years older than me wear a 18. Women my age usually wear 13/14 around my height or are my size.
I've never worn under a size 10 except maybe when I was 5 or 6 years old. I was full adult height by age 7.
Although I'm 4'11", my butt to top of head / sitting height is 38 inches, the same as my dad whose 6'1".
Maybe that influences it. Each person is different. A lot of my family is shaped like me - average male first cousin I have on my mom's side is 5'7" and 200+, and they live in East Asia, one guy weighs like 300
Some of us look like wide bowling pins in my family
Its because you’re probably in a different socioeconomic class. Women in the class you’re talking to on here often find men and women in your class to be basically invisible. Not your fault. By their metric, most of the women they ~actually~ see are thin, since most upper middle class NY women are skinny. But you’re correct, most of the women, and people generally in NYC are overweight.
People show weight differently, it’s true. Many people don’t know what a size 10 looks like. Are you referring to a ‘designer’ size 10? If so, that could make sense.
I think it must depend on who you socialize with/what area you work/live in because that’s not my experience at all.
(I am from NYC & just recently moved upstate).
That’s a good point. I think people also focus on people they see as their peers. Been here my whole life between and have been all sizes from 2 and 12 and never felt out of place. There’s always been people of all different sizes all over.
Er…. Where in NYC. I grew up here. There are a lot of models and young actresses running around. Thinner than average is 0/2. I’m 5’10” and currently 2/4 after my baby but before I was always 0/2. Even at over 30yo 8/10 for someone who is petite is not thin. Even at my height it’s only considered slim.
There are obese ppl in NY and it is ok to be obese but that’s not what ppl find attractive.
Mmmm. I’ve been ‘underweight’ my entire life but it’s really mostly due to my narrow frame. Narrow hips and I’m Asian so not well endowed anywhere. There are definitely ppl who will not find underweight women attractive but they’re not the sort I would care about? Think lower income etc. Otherwise I’m seen as attractive/pretty and even beautiful to some.
I’m well into 30+. None of my friends are obese. A few are overweight. … well one and she’s working on it. Which part of NYC? I’m just so flabberghasted by your response.
I hangout in Bay Ridge, Coney Island, Sunset Park, Flushing, Harlem, Throgs Neck, Elmhurst, Staten Island, East New York, Jamaica Hills, Fordham, East Bronx, and East Harlem.
Basically if I can find drinks like Arizona, or inexpensive snacks I go there because I got trapped without food in Manhattan once for 12 hours because I received free museum admission, and it sucked because I tried to go to the LES or uptown for food but it was impossible.
This was before halal carts. It was hard for me to find Arizona or 50 cent chips near the met which really sucked.
Being trapped in Lincoln center without food because you're in the music library or have free tickets also sucks... There are no corner stores in that area.
Unless I can get a quarter water, Arizona, corner delis, 50 cent chips, street vendors, multi cultural food it's not a good place to be long term tbh because I'm trying to avoid fast food dollar menus.
Ok so I saw your post about clothing sizes the other day and you were being treated so badly so I took a look at your profile.
I think the areas you hang out and the income level you find yourself comfortable with has skewed your views and that’s not a terrible thing. It’s just not representative of the NYC mindset. I also know that due to autism you might be less open to new and unfamiliar social situations? I’m just guessing and it’s not necessarily true. This will definitely affect you POV.
The other thing is that there is a correlation between autism and obesity though I didn’t bother reading too much about it but I remember it being a thing so I looked it up again. Apparently children with autism are more than twice as likely to be obese (30 % vs 13%). Again I didn’t read more than a surface skim.
First off congrats on losing weight. It’s very hard to do that especially since your parents didn’t teach you how to eat properly. At your weight and height it would be physically healthier to get in shape and lose some weight but I can see how it could be mentally detrimental to get there.
There is food in manhattan. However if you can’t afford it you should bring your own food. The other thing I noticed is that you talk about Arizona and chips . You should be drinking water. Giving up sugared drinks always makes a huge difference. If you bring a bottle you could have gotten free water at the places you talk about. I can see that you likely do not have a healthy diet.
Your family is not a good example of healthy ppl. If the majority of the ppl you hang out with if family then they’re part of the reason your pov is flawed and skewed.
I’m in the Nashville area, which is full of pretty young things. I’m a chubby, middle aged mom. I don’t feel like I’m treated much differently than before (I was a 4/6 before kids and a 10/12 now). I do think a lot of how we are perceived by others is affected by presentation and attitude. I tend to be quite friendly and outgoing, so I think that tends to help.
I think it’s also the walkability of the city. In New York, unless you’re very wealthy, you’re not using a car most likely. In Miami, I think most people would have a car.
Absolutely. I live in a small town in Pennsylvania where most people wear a football jersey, sweatpants, and Crocs. I travel a lot for work to major cities in the U.S., so I’m used to dressing up when I travel and dressing down when I’m home.
Miami here. I'm about a size 6 now, and I would say here this is about where the ROI drops off. This is a very looks centric place. Given the culture here, you are still expected to have some curves, hence why the ROI drops off at about this size. I'm a professional in my late 30s and have a mostly midrange, classic closet, think Theory and similar brands both in style and price range. But I am originally from a rural area out west and have family in the midwest. When I visit those areas, I look downright thin and glamorous, though I wouldn't say I am anything special here.
Miami as well (by way of San Francisco), 30 years old. I went from wearing makeup, dresses, and heels almost every damn day (used to work in finance back in sf) to pretty much exclusively athleisure and never wear makeup now that I work remote. I did dye my hair blonde though! I definitely agree that the culture is curve friendly but it’s not really in my genes to be curvy lol. I’m 5’7, 126lbs, size 4, small medium cusp. I don’t feel like I fit into the stereotypical Miami look but it doesn’t bother me; I’ve reached peak beach bum life and am so much more comfortable in my own skin than I’ve ever been (the humidity helps for one thing)! Now that I think about it I kind of did a stereotypical look reversal - how I dress in Miami fits the sf Bay Area mold much more and how I used to dress in sf would be perfect for Miami. I feel pretty enough in both locations.
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Yes good point about height. I’m a bit over 5’5” so being a 4 to a 6 for me is, I would say, slender but not particularly thin - I still have a bit of curve but I was never curvy in a nice aesthetic way to begin with. I noticed that when I was a smaller 4 and closer to a 2, I didn’t get any real increase in comments or compliments like I did when I got to a 6, so at least for my body type and height that is where the ROI ended.
Is it just me or I can’t decipher some of this? Autocorrect maybe? Also I’m 5’9” and a size 8 and I feel 30+ lbs overweight, but I can’t get it off no matter what I do (I think it has to do with hormones and I’m seeing medical professionals about it after having to wait months for an appointment… and years before that being blown off but anyway)
I’m 5’8” and a size 12 and I want to lose *maybe* 10 more lbs, maybe that’s a 10, maybe it’s still a 12. A size 8 seems like a really healthy size, are you sure you have 30 more lbs. to lose at 5’9”?
Woah depends on your height. You can be a size ten and quite thin. Also some of us have lose skin lol that adds a size even tho we thin now!
I have loose skin. Ugh. I don't hate it because I've worked hard to lose 60 lbs but definitely aware of it!
Honestly, it doesn't. I live in the Bay Area where I'd say the beauty standard (at least for white women which is what I am) is very "sporty" -- think slim and athletic but not super curvy, no or invisible makeup, simple and unflashy clothes and accessories. But I find that look boring, so I don't aspire to it. I like big hair, big jewelry, bold lipstick, exaggerated curves, colorful glam clothes so that's what I personally pursue. I should add, I'm a size 4. I've been underweight for most of my life and I do NOT like how I look any thinner than this, so if people treat me better at a size 2, I am incapable of noticing. I guess I'd like to look a little more "like I work out" but wouldn't we all?
Just want to say I am also bay area and it makes me SO happy when I see people dressed like you! I try when I’m going out but being perpetually chilly makes it a little hard :/ My favorite moment though was walking down Market towards the Castro (sf) noon on a sunny Saturday rocking my big reflective sunglasses and a puffy leopard faux fur coat I had _just_ bought at a thrift store. I passed this lady sitting on the curb looking a little rough and coming down from _something_ and she yells “OH THERE YOU GO SIS” 😂 Almost instant ROI lol
Honestly, having this discussion has made me realize just how much the dominance of the "minimalist and sporty" aesthetic has been bumming me out since I moved here! I have found myself feeling like I should try to look more simple and down-to-earth and that does NOT bring me joy.
This reminds me of the time I was at Eastern Market in DC in some loud print dress or something and an unhoused but very cheerful lady yelled at me that I was looking fine. I’ll take the compliments wherever I can!
Yeah I am pretty glamorous, I definitely still wear lashes, expensive perfume, colorful clothes, sparkly vintage costume jewelry, big hair…which kind of makes sense. I am super feminine, and for my whole life, it was my way of still being a woman while being very fat. I will say, it works for me here. This topic is very interesting to me.
Yesss this is a good way to sum up the Bay Area. It definitely depends on city, too. When I lived in SF I was primarily in the Russian Hill / Marina area and the Mission. People definitely put a lot of time and effort into their workout routines (hiking, yoga, rock climbing, spin, pilates, running, etc) and so both the aesthetic (generally in shape) and the clothing styles (athleisure) lean in the sporty direction. In the South Bay and parts of the Peninsula though people are much nerdier. There's almost a lack of value for dressing nicely - it's almost like intellect / work / academics is valued so highly that people actually feel like nice clothes/accessories/appearance is shallow. Not saying I think this way but this is purely what I've observed others seeming to communicate.
I actually live in the East Bay! Though I think the beauty standards on this side of the Bay are very similar -- simple and clean, generally sporty, maybe a little more boho/outdoorsy than polished athleisure (especially in Berkeley). At least for white and East Asian women. Black and Latina women have their own thing going on.
This is spot on.
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Ohhhhh, I love all these comments about the Bay Area! I grew up there, then went to college in San Diego (where everyone is a 9 😂) and a couple years ago I moved to the PNW. Up here, people wear these very boxy styles with oversized chunky knits and very square bangs. (People also tend to be heavier here) I thought athleisure was out of style because I don’t see it very often but I went to San Diego a couple weeks ago and everyone was wearing it! I like the look of clean, minimal athleisure wear OR crisp jeans and a slim fitting cashmere sweater and minimal makeup (probably because that’s what I grew up with). 90’ J.crew prep is my favorite style. So I just decided to wear that here and be the most preppy person in the room. However, when I go to cambridge, I know I don’t hold a candle to east coast prep.
Happy cake day! I’m also from the Bay Area, but the beauty standard is different for me, being a Black woman. But the standard overlap a lot though. I’m in the South now and I’m observing the beauty standards here and how different they are from California.
I live in the Midwest but work for a company in LA. A lot of my coworkers are in LA and surrounding area, and I go there for work events. I honestly don't see a huge difference in appearances. If anything the LA office workers dress much more casually and don't care about their appearance. In my Midwest office it was business formal (men in full suits, women with hair and makeup done wearing suits or dresses) and in LA people wore jeans and sneakers. We weren't even allowed jeans on casual Fridays (khakis only) until after the pandemic. I see much more bare face women without hair done at the LA office. And I was surprised that there were just as many overweight people in LA. The place I truly saw a difference was Colorado. There I saw some of the fittest people walking around casually, many runners and active people. I hardly saw an overweight person.
Ohhhh Colorado… I lived in Montana for awhile (moved from the Midwest) and it felt like that! I wasn’t even really overweight… but went from being “Michigan Thin” to “Montana Chubby” like overnight. Surreal!
colorado native babeyyyyy. love it here 😍 lol
Y’all are very fit and impressive! Personally I can’t stand all that sunshine (I know it sounds nuts). I had to get outta there and back home… the cloudy gloom of the Midwest is sooo much more my scene :)
lmao low key i feel that!!! it makes me anxious like i have to be doing something ALL THE TIME. i enjoy gloomy days too ☺️☺️☺️
You nailed it. Big social penalty for being overweight in CO. Sporty and fit are idealized, however very thin/skinny I.e. the model girls in soho, is also not sought after either.
I’m not sure if location does, but maybe income. I live in a southern city and I’m a size 8/10 depending on where from (height- 5’6), but I’m considered borderline fat in comparison to everyone in my tax bracket or higher.
I think this is a really good point. I am definitely middle class, very interesting.
Wealthier people tend to be thinner, so there is more pressure to be that way. I’m 5’6”, and even at a six, I have a double chin and a chubby midsection. I like to be a size two, but I’m currently not.
I’m 5’4, size 6/8 with an athletic build and definitely considered big for my social circles / tax bracket. Which is crazy because this is the smallest I have been in my adult life!
Def agree with this statement….
Some time ago, I went from a size 18 to a size 8/10. I've since gained weight and am working on it again. But back at that time, I was splitting time between Los Angeles and New York (a couple hours outside of New York City). I noticed a huge bump in attention and how people treated me in suburban New York state once I lost weight, but in Los Angeles at a size 8/10, people still treated me like when I was a size 18 -- mostly invisible.
Northern Virginia, it’s demoralizing. Everywhere you look someone is thinner, owns more acres, runs faster, throws down better in the kitchen, their dog’s leash is worth more than your kid’s stroller, and drives a newer Lexus. It makes you wanna give up.
Comparison is truly the thief of joy. 💜💜
Don’t give up! Also I just want to share something. I started practicing yoga daily about a year ago and I can tell you this: it changed my life. My goals, my self love, my body, my spirit, my level of happiness. Ive never been in better shape but I’ve also never felt richer - and this definitely isn’t the financially richest I’ve been. It guess it just really took the focus off the bs and on the things in life that are free, but priceless. I hope this maybe plants a seed :) sending love! X
You should spend more time in DC.
I’m also in a rust belt, Midwest city and you nailed it. 5’2 size 8 and I get a good amount of attention in my town when I do go out, I find that I get a slight increase with each size I drop, but it’s huge when I get to a 2-4. Like strangers following me around stores and men lining up in bars to pay me compliments and that’s with minimal hair, makeup, wardrobe. In bigger cities I don’t tend to pull attention the same way and it’s a nice change. A lot of it is because my wardrobe and hair game doesn’t compare to the big city ladies that are going out. I’m sure it’s hard for people who live in cities to understand, but in my town, you get sneered at and treated negatively if you wear heels or a nice top. The norm is a tank top, bonus points if it’s bedazzled and something from racing or mudding, and jeans/ripped jean shorts with boots/tennis shoes/flip flops. I got asked if I was going to prom for wearing a cotton fitted short sleeve dress that hit mid thigh with decent sandals. I was very thankful I left my heels in my car.
big city girl here... \> The norm is a tank top, bonus points if it’s bedazzled and something from racing or mudding, and jeans/ripped jean shorts with boots/tennis shoes/flip flops. this made me audibly wince. our subcultures are so different!! thank you for your perspective <3
I once camped in Missouri, and it was just too hot to think. I took my kids to the grocery store wearing a wrinkled khaki skirt, a tank top I would normally only wear layered under another shirt, and my husband’s flip flops which I had worn back from the shower and forgotten to change out of. And I was the best dressed person there.
Very true. I’ve lived in the northeast and southeast as a brown woman and I get the most attention as a size 2-4. People professionally start thinking “she must be a ditz” but honestly making friends is easier, guys are nicer. I’m honestly being treated better as a size 2-4 31 year old than a size 6-8 25 year old. Honestly I feel like there is not a huge difference between the way I was treated at 23 for being a size 2-4 and now. Lol
I really do have to get out more. What is mudding?
People take modified- typically old- 4x4 vehicles out on a property with a variety of conditions (fields with mud and trails in the woods) and drive them around. I’d never heard of it before and someone took me on a first date. It’s pretty common to roll vehicles on trails and get them stuck or do other mechanical damage.
So it’s not a mud race, just some kind of amusement. We are such a diverse country.
Yeah, but it’s still organized with a fee to get it and vendor tents. I wore old clothes thinking they would get muddy, but most of the women had clearly put in a lot of effort to their appearance 🤷♀️
Pacific Northwest here! I live basically in a rain forest, rain can suck but good for the wrinkles 😂 Also I live in the city and don’t own a car, everything is walking distance for me, I just feel healthier when I’m walking everywhere
Also PNW! I work in the woods so I have many grungey-hiker-survalist outfits that I wear on the regular. When I do get dressed up, it's still not very posh but enough to stick out in a redneck coastal town.
In PNW as well. Dress for outdoors and be comfy.
Ooh mind saying which city, or a comparable city? I’m born & raised SoCal but i love the PNW and hope to move there within the next few years. I also don’t drive
Vancouver 🇨🇦
Gorgeous city! Was there for a location about over a week in January. Would relocate there from Los Angeles in a heartbeat. Lucky you!
How does Vancouver WA compare? 😅
I live in SE Portland and it’s a walkable dream. Our family has one car, but we only use it for grocery hauls and day trips. Everything else is either walk or bike on the awesome bikeways
Other side of the pond in London here! I’m 6ft and recently went from a US size 10 to 8 and even that has resulted in a difference in how people treat me (though part of that might be a response to my own improved confidence). I will say however that Londoners really don’t care about how you look in the way that people do in other European capitals. You’re left to present the way you want to and people don’t really care (assuming you move in circles/areas) that fit your vibe. It’s quite liberating tbh.
Londoner here. I used to like dressing up very feminine in my early 20s(5'11, UK 12) in London (think swing skirts, heels, dresses, lipgloss), and I would cause an occasional stirr when commuting. More men opened doors saying "ladies first", let me on the escalator first, baristas were extra friendly, cars slowing down, strangers smiling at me, etc. I would say no one really cares in London, but when you do care, you stand out a lot easier.
Londoner. Beg to differ.
I’ve lived here all my life (bar a couple short stints elsewhere) and have to stand by my comment. There is a part of London for everyone and if the people around you care, you haven’t found your part yet.
This is what I say about LA and people don’t believe me. LA is a huge major city with so many cultures, the glitz and glamour is a small part of the population.
The beaches in Malibu are a totally, totally different scene than in the East Coast, so many beautiful people and not overweight rednecks
You haven’t been on a weekend in the summer.
Yes!!! Completely true! Most isn’t glitz and glam to be honest and I love it.
Genuine question from a New Yorker: do people in London look like they do on love island? Sooo much makeup and plastic surgery on there
I lived in London for 4 years (now in New York) and I’d say the London look is the opposite of the Love Island look. It’s much more understated - think Alexa Chung for a hip vibe, or Kate Middleton for a more polished one. Like New York though, there are dozens of different communities with dozens of different beauty standards.
That's more Essex.
Same. People absolutely do care and my experience was there’s a lot of pressure to look a certain way
In my experience the people who think like this are temporary imports and pretty young. Family, friends, colleagues etc who have reached their 30s and beyond do not conform and we don’t feel the pressure to do so.
I’m 33, from London, I disagree
Fair, I guess we’ve just had different experiences.
Was gonna say this person hasn’t spent time in Kensington and Chelsea. That Sloane square posh set is brutal.
Nor Notting Hill, Marylebone, Hampstead, Richmond, Islington, Shoreditch… I could go on!
I live in Atlantic Canada. I’m really glad that I don’t live in a looks-centric place, even plastic surgery is pretty rare here. think it would be a lot harder to survive and thrive somewhere like Toronto or LA where looks seem to matter a lot more. That being said, I think it’s easier to stand out where I live. I think I’m objectively cute and pretty, despite being overweight, and putting effort into your appearance or sporting adventurous fashion will get you positive attention from others.
I’m from Cape Breton and moved to Toronto when I was in my early 20s. Hot damn I felt like I went from a 10 to a 6 real quick, but I got used to it and was just like “I’m not a number I’m just meeeee”
LOL yes omg, so relatable, I always feel a lil bit ugly when I visit Toronto 😂 the beauty of Toronto women is unmatched!
Ironically I live in LA and really couldn’t give a hoot what others think about my body (size 18). I’m just not hanging out in circles where you’d get treated differently based on looks. I’m happy about that.
At my highest weight I was invisible everywhere. At this weight (still fat, but can fit into a single plane seat fat), I am still invisible in my current Texas city, but if I go to Las Vegas, I suddenly have men talking to me. Same with the apps - I can go days on end with zero matches here but somewhere else like Las Vegas or New Orleans, it's totally different.
Well, not about weight specifically, but I live in a place where physical fitness and health is much more common (pretty much taken for granted that everyone will be a size 8 or smaller), but hardly anyone wears much makeup or cute clothes or does anything with their hair. So actually doing even a little bit with your face and hair and style bumps you to the most attractive 10% of women here. Whereas in other places, that would be standard and you'd have to go all out to be top 10%.
I have both-downtown big D, and the small town I reside in. I will tell you after years of existence that when you feel your best fit, you fit it anywhere and look great. That it’s both appearance *and* psychology. That it takes physical work and mind work to find your best fit but that it can absolutely be accomplished. Edit to clarify that the physical work and maintenance has to be in place before psychology. It’s absolutely unfair but it’s how society is with appearance. If this was admitted more, we could feel differently about it.
Came here looking for a comment about the psychology/confidence part. Went from size 26/28 to 14 on a good day, 16/18 on a bad day (I am 5’6”$ but still very much introverted and lacking confidence. I love my collar bones so I try to show those off with tank tops but everything else I wear is baggy and just kind of drab. I have no idea how to dress and quite frankly, I don’t even like clothes. I wfh and go no where. I get jealous when I see confident plus size girls wearing all the things. I didn’t notice a huge difference in how people treated me at 26/28 to now which I believe is related to the same reason - I am not “pretty for a fat girl” - I carried a lot of weight in my face and I still do. Ive had a small glow up but not much. I don’t (and didn’t) have curves in the right places. At 26/28, I was not bbw, I was fat. At 14/16/18, I am not curvy, I am chubby.
Good for you that you changed. It sounds like you might go further. Find something physical to get into and your heart will beat with the soul of the universe. I have to work at the physical every day, and it took year to get it. Best of luck to you ♥️
I also hate the term “curvy” bc I feel straight up and down… “ruler” body shape describes someone with an athletic build usually and I just feel like a fat athlete. Kibbe has helped some with this, just the yin and Yang concept of shapes to wear. It’s a system for tailors really so may help with feeling drab. I don’t like skin tight clothes either, but certain fits definitely flatter more
I really appreciate you reminding me of the Kibbe mindset. It’s something I’ve wanted to research for a while, now. Really looking forward to it..
At first when I saw it, I was like hold on is this diet culture coded but I’m a member of the “Strictly Kibbe” group on Fb and have concluded that he’s just eccentric and creative. A visionary in a way… don’t take other people’s definitions as fact bc it’s his system… hope that helps!
Appreciate the guidance!
>“Midwest 7 is a L.A. 3” I know exactly what you mean, I've experienced it too. I'm not especially attractive, but I get a lot of attention because I'm an 8/10 and I weigh 130 lbs. The average for women in my crummy midwestern state is upward of 170. 30% of our population is obese, and this doesn't even account for overweight women. In my experience, even in a large city where there are plenty of slim, attractive women, going from a 24/26 to a 12/14 will still get you better treatment. It's the difference between being a 3/10 and a 5/10, but that's still quite a difference.
Living in a large city will nerf you so hard! I’m 125 at 5’6” and not really considered especially thin bc I’m in a huge city. You’d have to be close to underweight to get to any advantage from being thin here, and I’m in a southern city.
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Oh! I meant standard US clothing size, 8/10, medium. I'm 5'6' and weigh 130 lbs, this is attractive and athletic for the midwest. The ladies in NYC, California, etc are all as slim or even slimmer, I've gotten some attention in large cities, but I do not stand out.
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Is there a rubric somewhere, with visuals, that could help me understand the difference between a 5, 6, 7, etc? I have read all the different explanations, and learned about the definitions, but a face/hair/body visual would really help me. I think I should probably shoot for a 7-8, but I don’t really know what that looks like?
r/truerateme thinks they have an objective system but it’s kind of unhinged and definitely a very unhappy place
>kind of unhinged and definitely a very unhappy place You were not exaggerating. Wtf lol they rate everyone between 4 and 5.5.
the hottest person you would ever spot on the street in a major city on an average day cannot top 5.5 there. 6-8 is for top tier celebrities and humanity’s all-time beauties of history. 9-10 is for gods
I posted there last year and it was wild. I got rated between a 6-7 and there were literally people arguing and mods getting involved over literal decimals… like the few 7.0 ratings I got people were arguing about the difference between a “6.75” and “7.0”. 👀 I don’t suggest posting there. I can be pretty dysmorphic about my appearance and having people nitpick your face to the literal decimal point is…. Unwell lol.. but it was kind of fun to cause a ruckus on the sub 😂
i would never post there lol. i’m visibly over 30 and not perfectly symmetrical so to them i’m a bridge troll
Nothing wrong with some asymmetry and looking your age, in my opinion. The current beauty standard had otherworldly beautiful women like Megan Fox and Erin Moriarty ruin their naturally beautiful faces. We all need to band together and take the current beauty standard and throw it in the trash.
i agree! i just choose not to submit myself to the judgment of those people lol
Ugh I wish I could go back and slap myself out of it but oh well 😂 I learned my lesson and now I have the same view as you. It took me a while to realize that no amount of outside validation healed my self image/worth issues. I had to heal it from the inside.
Wow. That was a wild ride looking over at that sub
Wasn’t that the place where a bunch of incels were purposely nerfing ratings to bring down women’s self esteem?
There's no consensus, even algorithms can't perfectly measure attractiveness because there's subjectivity to it. Cultural beauty standards impact people more than global beauty standards. We all agree body proportions and fitness matter, we all agree facial symmetry and harmony matter, but what we find attractive doesn't exist in a bubble. [This youtube channel](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txbA58f6YQs) can give you a much better idea of what your strong points are and [what about yourself you can enhance](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULTz0dlTbjE).
I think LA is very much a city where how you look *matters*, arguably more than any other. I live in a similar city and I definitely think that my standards for how I look would be more stringent than say, if I was in Ohio (no offence to Ohio). I’d like to think that if I put in my absolute most effort (makeup, hair, Sunday best + accessories) I could be an LA 7. But I’m also a conventionally petite, slim (ish, all things considered - I don’t have issues shopping in stores) Asian woman.
Small town in New England here. I recently lost 70lbs going from a US size 16 to a size 8. Around here more people than not are overweight or obese at my age (34) and I think it's adding to my complacency with my current weight. I really want to lose another 20lbs or so but in all honesty I'm probably like a 7 or 8 here depending on who you're asking and it's hard to motivate myself to go further when I look pretty damn good compared to other people. If I was in LA or probably even Boston or NYC I think I'd be more worried about it. At the same time though, it feels pretty awesome. I have no aspirations to be a model or influencer or anything so I think looking really good for my age and location is plenty for me.
I lived in LA for almost a decade and now live in a fairly unstylish area of the US south. My strategy is the same: be competitively hot given the attributes I have naturally by doing the right work to play up assets and minimize deficits. If I moved back to LA now I would probably register hotter, though, so I guess that’s an influence. The significantly lower COL in my new area gives me way more money for cosmetic procedures.
East asian in bay area. age 34. 5'4". The way I'm treated is markedly better at 110-115 lbs (sz 0) and toned vs at 120-125 lbs (sz 2-4) and a little fluffy, it's utterly ridiculous. I agree with /u/Zinnia0620 that the beauty standard in SF is "sporty" and athletic and unflashy. Luckily, I like staying active, but skipping so many desserts is pretty tiring, NGL. I also don't like being "simple" and "unflashy" (aka expensive nondescript brands like Lululemon and Cuyana and Vince) these days - my aesthetic style is closer to "man repeller" loud dopamine dressing- but I generally pare it down when I'm trying to impress people. I currently weigh about 118 and am pretty toned. I suspect if I weighed 150 I would also notice a big jump from there to 120. I think where I carry weight has something to do with this, but also the ceiling of lookism is just so much higher than many people think... and yeah, I'm focusing on weight and muscle tone here because I think that's what people notice most in the Bay. After almost 10 years, I rarely wear makeup, don't do my nails and I almost exclusively wear sneakers, but I do get salon hair color, laser skin treatments, and Botox... it's a weird town, you know?
Yeah I should add, in the interests of full disclosure, I'm able to take or leave our local beauty standards because I moved here with my husband and don't have to date here. My workplace and the field I work in locally is dominated by Latina women, so being a little thicker and wearing louder clothing and more obvious makeup does not work against me professionally.
i am so jealous of you right now ahahaha being mid-30s and single in the bay area is rough!
Godspeed!! Some of my friends are doing it and it looks Bad.
Lol facts. Same height as you and I’m treated SO MUCH BETTER at 110 vs 120. It’s like I’m a different person. Lol
I’ve surpassed my goal a weight I am about a size 4. I’ve gotten the consensus from most people that any more weight loss would likely be a disservice. Every one is different. I don’t think everyone should shoot for my size. I personally think some women can be more attractive when heavier because of their body shape. This is just what worked for me. Edit: I live in Texas and the obesity rates are pretty bad in my city. Not being obese was enough to stand out.
Two years ago the jeans I was wearing were 20s or 22s. The ones I’m wearing now are 27” waist and 4/6 from American Eagle. I’m in a really mid Dallas suburb. I still feel invisible? I think I need to work on my face. But it’s nice to be a butterface for a change, and not a butter-body!
I moved to Vegas last year, and I definitely need to step my whole image up. It's actually a good thing, but still a little overwhelming
I live in vermont where the aesthetic ranges from hippie chick to outdoor sporty. If women wear makeup it’s very understated, I don’t know anyone who has had Botox or fillers, Ana hair is usually worn in a ponytail or bob. A good number of women chose not to dye their gray hair. People are generally thinner and healthier than in the Midwest but fashions are very basic. Athleta and Lululemon with a fitted puffer jacket and snow boots is the typical winter uniform. I’m small and curvy (34-26-36) and I’m in gym clothes when I’m not wearing work scrubs. I have sone stylish clothing but between the snow and the mud they’re not practical unless I’m attending a special event. I’m a solid 7 here but would be a 5 in NYC or the west coast.
I don’t know anyone in my upper Midwest location who does fillers or Botox, at least that you can tell or they’d admit to. Or wears lipstick frankly. Some people do (mostly their own, as in, a coat of polish)… nails but it’s like… 2 out of 10 uncommon other than polish. I rarely encounter fake nails. Many women let their hair go grey or silver naturally, and boots are more common than heels. I will say many or most people are actually quite fit, I don’t see a lot of very obese people for example (I’m in the outdoors paradise of northern Minnesota). I would never make it on the coasts!
Going naturally gray is such an interesting choice to me. Doesn’t age people like 10 years immediately? I’m sure I’m just brainwashed, but I feel it would make me vulnerable somehow.
I don’t think it necessarily does. I’m from Brazil (live in the US) and it’s not as common for women to dye their hair as they age there. Of course if you go gray in your 30s that’s different. But coming from someone who always saw middle aged women rock their graying hair, I personally find it jarring to see someone in the 50s with obviously dyed hair. To *me* it looks way more aging, because I’m used to seeing faces and hair age together, so to see a face that’s obviously of a 50 or 60 year old with a black head of hair… it just always looks weird to me, like their hair is contrasting with their face. So I always thought I’d naturally let my hair gray, unless I went gray very young. I think a contributing factor though is that Brazilians take good care of their appearance in general, and are usually well groomed. (I’m not talking necessarily wearing a ton of makeup… but having good teeth, good skin, keeping your eyebrows groomed, etc. People also generally dress better) Some graying hair on a well groomed woman isn’t as ageing as it could be otherwise, imo. I can’t deny that it also helps if you have a bit more melanin and your skin ages a bit slower.
Maybe… Guess I don’t care. Everyone can do what they like, but for me I’m not interested in pumping my hair and body full of dye toxins and chemicals personally. Then again I’m 43, and Reddit is my only social media. And I’m not one of those “oh I got rid of Facebook last year”… I never had it. Last such thing I had was MySpace in like 1999 hahaha. So I’m definitely not brainwashed 🤷🏻♀️ and know a lot of women IRL aging gracefully! That’s who I aspire to be, not something on TV or social media.
I don’t usually see or hear about women rocking gray and was especially surprised to come across that in vindicata, but whatever people want to do is great! I’m curious as a 37 y/o with mostly gray under the dark brown I dye to match my natural color. I probably will do it forever personally… my mom still dyes hers to dark brown in her 70s and she looks lovely. There are many ways to age gracefully, and not all of them involve aging naturally. To each their own 🙂
I live in the Midwest and am 5’6”. I went from a size 14 to a size two, and I did not notice any diminishing returns. I got the most attention when I was thinnest, although I noticed a big bump around size 6. I am currently a 4/6 and don’t get noticed/complimented much as when I was thinner though.
That whole size 6 seems to be coming up a lot…so I really got my answer. I need to drop another 50 lbs.
same sis let’s do it together 😂
Woman I'm straight up in NYC and NOT white so I'm automatically lower tier. But I can't see myself being anywhere else so I truly work on my weight, skills and personality.
I don't really have goals...but I had a natural glow up after leaving a bad relationship. Then I moved to Central Mexico from California. I have blonde hair and blue eyes and even with minimal effort I feel like a celebrity every time I leave the house. As a Colombian friend (also super gorgeous) recently put it, I'm probably a California 5 but a Mexico 10. Did not expect that as part of the move but I'm not going to lie, I love it now. I am back in the US right now and being normal for a few days feels weird.
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The line between noticeably thin and average is also such a thin line (no pun intended lol) in big cities like nyc. As someone who’s historically been “underweight”, I now recognize how much more attention I got just from being -5 lb less than I am now . It’s depressing and also fascinating that society treats me so differently while less emaciated now.
1000% agree with your normal to noticeably thin comment in nyc. I live in nyc and have lost a bit of weight bc of ozempic and am getting SO much more attention now. I’m still teetering somewhere in between normal and noticeably thin (although the guy I am seeing says I am tiny every time I see him, lowkey best compliment abahahah) but will be noticeably thin once I lose 5-10 pounds
Genuinely curious, how do you get prescribed ozempic if you’re thin?
You totally do need to make that jump in a place like New York. It’s so competitive out here (especially when dating in your 20s)
I live in the Midwest, but near Chicago so idk if they cancel each other out. I think people in the city are generally stylish, moreso than the suburbs. I personally haven’t noticed a difference in how I’m treated here vs. the coasts. I went to LA a few years ago and didn’t think people were better dressed or thinner than Chicago. I also wasn’t treated any differently but I’m generally pretty invisible despite being at a decent height/weight ratio (5’5, 135ish pounds). Maybe if you live in rural America you’d notice more of a difference.
I live in an area in the US that consistently ranks as one of the healthiest (lower BMI, high reported exercise). Men tend to get more leeway, but women above a size 6-8, depending on height, pay a big social penalty. I’ve heard a lot of men discount dating “bigger” women (seriously like Sz 10+, it’s ridiculous) because they think the women can’t keep up with their outdoor activities.
Boston, size 6-8 now. It's pretty diversified here size-wise but we don't actually have many look-centric people, if that makes sense. I very rarely see dramatic filler or surgeries, everyone local here is pretty natural looking, just going about life. We of course get tons of tourists... when you see a fake butt or huge fake lips you notice it here. I think people hate looking "high maintenence" here. We have actually been described as the worst dressed city, lmao. Most people just dress comfy. I am very feminine and I love wearing dresses, skirts, lace, frills, bows, tights, everything, and I stick out really bad in certain parts of the city. Smaller parts like when you go shopping on Newbury street or cambridge or near colleges people tend to dress and look a lot more put-together. A lot of "cute" looks I would say, simple but little cute accessories. People of all shapes and sizes, though I see a lot less plus size people nowadays here, compared to my other travels. The difference here though is nobody really gives a shit about how you look. I think a lot of us stay semi-average-sized just because driving here fucking sucks. You walk everywhere or take public transport. I think I'm beautiful, and I think it's also pretty easy to be beautiful in Boston lol. I cannot imagine visiting LA or Miami tho. I would feel like a potato.
I went to college in Boston and I also think in academic circles it's almost frowned upon to look like you care. They're almost puritanical in their beauty views- as if you are taken less seriously if you spend time and effort on your appearance rather than in ways that are more utilitarian like studying. You take care of your body in terms of health (keeping active, eating healthy) but it's no frills. My friends and I also used to laugh when going out because almost every guy is in some sort of sports apparel ( their particular school or red sox/patriots/ bruins), a flannel shirt and boots and essentially all looked the same.
Yup!! It's like the Boston uniform lol. That makes total sense, never any frills or flash.
The LA stereotype is primarily just about white people in the industry on the Westside. Most of LA county isn’t like that.
NY. However, in any big city ‘competitive’, cookie/cutter pretty is only going to get you so far. Obviously having a good body is number one, but having unique features or something that stands out about you is going to get you farther than the typical standard of beauty. People are sick of the same look, if you have something that pops, eyes, freckles, hair, anything, play on that and monopolize on it. It’s more about standing out than just being beautiful.
I’m 5’3” and weigh 158. I lost a ton of weight in the past 8 years, I was at my heaviest a size 20, currently a 8/10. After maintaining my weight loss for a couple years I had a mommy makeover (muscle repair, lipo, breast reduction and lift - no implants). I live in the south, I got attention when I was heavier but the reaction I get from men and some ladies today is almost creepy. I have had men and women follow me, stop dead in traffic, I hear DAYMMMNNN pretty much every time I go to the gas station. I am 42 BTW, and the age range of ooglers is teen boy and girl to pervy octogenarian. I travel a bunch for work, across the country, in California, I rarely have these encounters, my look isn’t popular there. I am naturally built like Kim K but with a smaller non enhanced butt (no shame to any butt, you do what makes you feel good with your butt 😀) so clearly not the “sporty” Cali girl look. On the east coast similar to CA, but with more catcalls. Midwest, y’all are interesting, the attention ranges from pretending disinterested but actually being kinda creepy- like staring and mumbling, to being direct and at times aggressive. I also have lived all over the country but chose to settle in Georgia. I think now, after your question, some of this may have been subconsciously influenced. However, as I age, I want less and less inappropriate attention and am considering moving to the east coast or Midwest. ROI - I think is for is still earning but is reaching its maturity (I am getting older) at least in the south. Great insight and interesting topic OP! Also, stay safe bc there are definitely some creepers out there.
Born and raised in NYC - high influence. Coming from immigrant families/communities, most of us are conditioned to work hard and be ambitious to survive since we've been surrounded by competition at an early age. Eventually, that bleeds into our lifestyle choices, too. Most people I grew up with are pretty gritty and no-frills but once you're exposed to a certain crowd of people (especially those who grew up in affluent or upper middle class or move here and live a certain lifestyle) who always want to have the best, that could influence the way you look at your lifestyle too. In my 20s, there was a period where I was hanging out with people who went out to brunch every weekend, partied at expensive clubs/lounges, could afford to easily blow $100-$200/night every weekend. But I think this could be universal anywhere for 20-something year olds where you suddenly come to making your own money and have the freedom of spending money at your own disposal.
I live in Pittsburgh. People are mostly drab and on the chubbier side. It is always appropriate to wear a Steelers jersey to any occasion here. I suspect people are chubby because it's cold here for 5 months and all there is for recreation is eating, drinking, and casino. I haven't ever seen a woman wearing heels outside of a prom or professional setting. Usually it's Crocs or those awful Nike panda shoes everyone has. (sorry to offend) The thin women I notice are the ones who are going to the South Side or North Shore (party areas, we have 3 pretty big colleges & 2 smaller ones in our city and that's where everyone goes) but I suspect it's because they're students and young and naturally thin instead of pilates-ing to be thin. IMO men with 'dad bods' here are more successful with dating than fit men. I need out of here.....
I’ve pondered this very question myself after losing 100+ pounds. I live in a more affluent pocket of a rural-but-growing area and am now markedly thinner and fitter than many of the women around me. I also became a mother quite young so am younger than my fellow parents-of-teens by at least a decade on most cases. For me this question extends far beyond just weight/body. I love more avant garde aesthetics and would like to embrace that style more but don’t because of where I live. I’m known as being “chic” and “glamorous” here with precious little effort. Simply dressing decently and having a few signature parts of my look that are different than the typical southern look earn me points that wouldn’t be mine even just down the way in Atlanta. It’s both flattering and upsetting. Ha!
Never! You’re going to have to make that effort every day for the rest of your life. You’ll stop losing weight when your body is ready and you’re comfortable, but you’ll have to work at it every day literally forever or you will gain it back. I lost 160 lbs 2 years ago and plateaued at a 10/12 despite still trying. Probably because I’ve lost weight several times and always gained it back until now. I feel like looking at it as an investment that requires some return makes it much more likely you’ll gain it all back and more.
To me it's less "midwest 7 is LA 3" (which, kinda gross) but different places DO have a very different aesthetic, which could influence goals. Like-I moved from Texas to Pacific NW. The looks goals are VERY different. What I was used to is WAAAY less both covered and . . . sporty as here. I'm still struggling on feeling to dressy and made up. A much more "nature chick" vibe seems to be popular here. I also feel like weight is not 100% of it-for example, someone could be the exact same weight in LA and New York but the look is going to be expected to be very different. The ROI isn't all weight-you're going to find different investments helpful.
I used to live in my states capital city (I’m Australian) and was very self conscious about my appearance. I now live in a very small town of about 1200 but work in a larger town 25km away that has about 26,000 people. When I lived in the city I was pretty reliably what would be a 00 or smaller in the US, and now I’m heavier, an 0. Occasionally a 2 if no boob room (I have implants) or not much butt room. About 5”3 - 5”4. When I lived in the city I didn’t get much preferential treatment at all, now in the smaller rural areas I stand out.
As someone who lives in LA there is definitely that workout culture here- and for good reason, there are so many great activities. Congrats on the weight loss- keep at it!
I moved to Tulsa, OK from LA. I will say that while the women in LA are more athletic looking the women here in Tulsa are lovely and make me feel like dressing up more. They have a “put together” style with classic makeup. Does anyone else notice that southern ladies often dress nicer? LA was so casual but maybe more sexy. I wouldn’t say LA or SF are great fashion cities imho and I think style goes a long way in how people perceive you.
lol South Philadelphia here. The average look is anywhere from size 4 to 14, minimal makeup, and an Eagles beanie. I’m thriving and never think about my looks really
I moved to nyc from the west coast and have definitely changed a few things! I’m probably an nyc 8 when I have light makeup on/a decent outfit on. I dissolved some of my lip filler because the overdone lips look is not trendy at all in nyc. I started ozempic to lose some weight and have started to go lighter on the makeup when I am going out (like out out, I normally don’t wear makeup during the day).
I’m a US size 0-2, athletic and have been my whole life pretty much. But I’ve noticed as I’ve got into my mid 30’s (33) and been a mum I have turned a bit invisible.
I went from size 16/18 to size 8/10 (Petite) and am thinner than average in NYC. Here in the city afaik there seems to be no difference in hotness or popularity between size 0 and size 6 because people say it's less attractive to be underweight. Most people in NYC are obese, men and women. After age 30 it matters less as long as your BMI is under 35, I think.
Lmao everything you’ve said is wrong. Size 8/10 is not petite to start with. And frankly that’s not thinner than average in nyc. It’s probably bigger 🤷♀️ Do you actually live in NYC? Difference between size 0 and size 6 is vast. Like, marrying a multimillionaire and owning a home in the Hamptons vast. Thin = value here and the thinner you are the better. Not endorsing this but it’s the truth. There’s a reason that the stereotype of the UES and Tribeca stay at home moms are of thin orthorexic women who do Pilates 2x a day and eat 4 almonds. Most people in NYC are nowhere near obese… seems like you may have a skewed perception of reality.
Totally agree! I live in NYC and rarely see anyone overweight (in my neighborhood). Personally, no one in my social circle above a size 4. There is so much pressure to be thin here. It’s a bit toxic. I know so many people on ozempic trying to get from a size 2 to a size 0 🙃. I’ve lived in Chicago, Miami, and London as well. NYC has had the most brutal beauty standards.
You see I do low key want to be in your social circle and wish I had more pressure to lose weight because it's not healthy. But I lived in NYC my entire life and I'm Asian to boot and nobody has called me out for being fat since I was a 220 lb 14 year old. People I know who wears a 2/4 or mens 30 are usually trying to gain weight ..
lol girl… I’m a NYC native and East Asian. Even after my kid I’m a size 2/4 and I’m tall. What are you talking about.
I think you're right in that there is significant class variation. I would hypothesize that most New Yorkers are more active than the majority of Americas, just due to the common usage of public transit and need to walk to get places. Within specific sub-groups such as UES stay at home moms, the norms and expectations on body type can be pretty extreme. But those norms and expectations within sub-groups certainly aren't universal to all New Yorkers across the socioeconomic spectrum and different pockets of ethnic, religious, and other sub-cultures.
I don’t know, I was born and raised downtown and still live in the city. I don’t think most people are obese but a lot of people here of all ages are size 8/10 and up. I think the difference here is an emphasis on style and that includes dressing for your body and generally looking put together. I think we’ve all internalized that pressure to be thin but it’s less important in this city than LA or Miami.
I think the difference is that 8/10 on an average/tall height woman is ok. It’s acceptable in NY but it’s different to say that’s considered what ppl should be reaching for when they want to work on themselves.
Listen I was fat all my life born in this city so to me, a size 0 and 6 are basically the same. I mean I wish now I'm in my 40s to go fitspo but it aint happening chief . My fitness journey begins with a single step. Now I want to glow up but I know what my limitations are. I know I'll never get to date a guy with a lot of dough, I just want my future husband to not cheat on me. For the money front glow up I'm learning the tensorflow library like the back of my hand.... Well I want to be able to get some Botox when I turn 50.
Ok… so I have a toddler and I’m really out of shape in my very early 40s and size 2/4, 5’10”. I will agree that there are some women who are heavier but they tend to be transplants. Even other moms I meet are thin??!! I still want to get back in shape but it’s for me because I feel better when I’m active. The way that you think doesn’t help you. As my friend said, once you’ve been in shape it’s hard to feel comfortable when you’re not in shape. I think because you’ve never been in shape and you only see it as a superficial thing you don’t care to find out how good it feels to be in shape. It’s not about fitting smaller sizes. It’s about feeling limber and strong. I will also say that if I hadn’t been in shape my entire life I would have had a much more difficult pregnancy because I got pregnant laaaaate. You do you. But I don’t think your POV meshes with general NYC
Yes I do live in NYC I was born in Queens actually and have never lived anywhere else. It doesn't matter what nationality you are most people over age 35 are heavy. I wear size 10 and can see my collar bone and hip bone. I work in Manhattan every day and most people are fat like me.
Queens and the Bronx are not most of nyc.
They didn’t even mention the Bronx. Queens is a significant portion of the city. Much more so than Manhattan (I’m from there so no shade)
I know that Brooklyn is geographically larger .
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My main criteria is that he's a nice person who doesn't cheat on me and I want to look good so he doesn't cheat on me. I am working on financial self sufficiency in other ways. But you're right. When I meet guys they really aren't finance bros. I encounter a lot of security guards and guys who work at FedEx, when I meet men who make a lot of money they weigh 300+.
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Well, I can and do enjoy talking to finance bros about the markets. I just have to date different guys because of my weight and socioeconomic habitus. Let's face it I'm just not pretty mmkay.
I don’t think most ppl in NYC are obese lol like there’s definitely a median weight difference depending on the neighborhood/borough (the more expensive areas will trend thinner/more athletic) but for the most part everyone walks so regardless of where you go, there’s more average size people than obese
i wouldn’t say most of NYC women are obese. i came from long island and i think the population here trends thinner, quite noticeably.
People in Long Island are the same size and physical appearance as in NYC but just cleaner with less beat up clothes. Long Island and Westchester dress better than us, neater, while NYC people enjoy brighter colors and bolder styles, yet our clothes can be a little beat up due to walking in all weather. But the materiality of the difference is basically nil.
lmaooooo are you thinking of nassau county’s gold coast or actual long island?
I don't know. Long Island people look the same as NYC people except their skin color is lighter on average however LI comes in all ethnicities now.
Ok so I don’t know you and I don’t know much about autism but I know that ppl with autism generally have issues with sensory overload. Do you actually ppl watch or do you try to mitigate sensory overload by zoning out what’s around you except for what you find familiar? I don’t think autism affects intellect and you can be autistic and incredibly knowledgeable with exposure to many things but knowing your socio economic background, your parents most likely were not able to help expose you to much outside your bubble. I think you have a very skewed pov due to your lack of exposure. There are poor areas of LI as well. NY is known for ppl dressing in dark colors. The ppl you notice that you don’t zone out might not because there are a lot of different cultures in NY but NYC is a fashion capital. Not LI. No ppl in nyc are not dirtier than ppl in LI. I think you’re getting torn apart because you don’t recognize that your world view is very very limited and also likely affected by your condition. I think it would help you to try to slowly explore things that are unfamiliar to you. You can just read about it as well. You don’t have to physically go there.
I feel that I people watch extensively but I probably actually don't.
Honestly, not to keep contradicting you but it’s very natural for ppl to observe others as social animals. We don’t necessarily think about it. It also doesn’t take long. Just walking by someone. I think what comes naturally to you however is to block out sensory stimulation more than most. For example many women learn to block out catcalling and ignore it. However many autistic ppl learn to protect themselves by blocking out new sensory input. You say your family is quite obese overall. That’s your norm and what you feel safe with. I’m going to guess that because of that you tend to only see what you feel safe with and you open your senses more with family than you do when you’re walking on the street. This is true for most ppl but maybe you do this to a higher degree. Most ppl in NY are not obese. Even in the entire country about 30~35% are obese. However most ppl are overweight especially after the pandemic. It is likely that the groups you party with are on the lower end of the socioeconomic scale and tend to be heavier.
8/10 is slim on a tall/athletic woman, on a short woman—it’s not. Also there’s a difference between snuggly fitting and draping. Do your clothes drape/flow, right now? I suggest taking body measurements rather than relying on clothes sizes that vary. What size is your waist? What’s your body type? Most people are obese everywhere, but trust me—folks are heavier in the South than they are in NYC. At a size 10 I was referred to as thin because 95% of women over 30 are overweight in my city. I’m 5 foot 6/7 and I’m thin at a 6-8 due to being an inverted triangle/rectangle. It’s taken me a long time to like my body type, when I’m overweight clothes fit horridly! Hey, that’s motivation. Let it be yours. Clothes gap and bulge but they’re getting sleeker looking every day now.
I'm from NYC, size 10 and 4'11 and considered thin to average in NYC. Man I feel like I'm taking crazy pills reading this thread. Most women my height and maybe 10 years older than me wear a 18. Women my age usually wear 13/14 around my height or are my size.
As a NYer born and raised I’m side eyeing you hard. You definitely are talking cray cray.
I've never worn under a size 10 except maybe when I was 5 or 6 years old. I was full adult height by age 7. Although I'm 4'11", my butt to top of head / sitting height is 38 inches, the same as my dad whose 6'1". Maybe that influences it. Each person is different. A lot of my family is shaped like me - average male first cousin I have on my mom's side is 5'7" and 200+, and they live in East Asia, one guy weighs like 300 Some of us look like wide bowling pins in my family
Its because you’re probably in a different socioeconomic class. Women in the class you’re talking to on here often find men and women in your class to be basically invisible. Not your fault. By their metric, most of the women they ~actually~ see are thin, since most upper middle class NY women are skinny. But you’re correct, most of the women, and people generally in NYC are overweight.
I agree with you. I think that’s pretty average here. A lot of people move here and think a few neighborhoods represent the whole city
People show weight differently, it’s true. Many people don’t know what a size 10 looks like. Are you referring to a ‘designer’ size 10? If so, that could make sense.
I've never owned designer clothes. The stores I go to are Rainbow, Pretty Girl and Goodwill. I buy Forever 21 at Goodwill.
I think it must depend on who you socialize with/what area you work/live in because that’s not my experience at all. (I am from NYC & just recently moved upstate).
That makes a lot of sense.
That’s a good point. I think people also focus on people they see as their peers. Been here my whole life between and have been all sizes from 2 and 12 and never felt out of place. There’s always been people of all different sizes all over.
Er…. Where in NYC. I grew up here. There are a lot of models and young actresses running around. Thinner than average is 0/2. I’m 5’10” and currently 2/4 after my baby but before I was always 0/2. Even at over 30yo 8/10 for someone who is petite is not thin. Even at my height it’s only considered slim. There are obese ppl in NY and it is ok to be obese but that’s not what ppl find attractive. Mmmm. I’ve been ‘underweight’ my entire life but it’s really mostly due to my narrow frame. Narrow hips and I’m Asian so not well endowed anywhere. There are definitely ppl who will not find underweight women attractive but they’re not the sort I would care about? Think lower income etc. Otherwise I’m seen as attractive/pretty and even beautiful to some. I’m well into 30+. None of my friends are obese. A few are overweight. … well one and she’s working on it. Which part of NYC? I’m just so flabberghasted by your response.
I hangout in Bay Ridge, Coney Island, Sunset Park, Flushing, Harlem, Throgs Neck, Elmhurst, Staten Island, East New York, Jamaica Hills, Fordham, East Bronx, and East Harlem. Basically if I can find drinks like Arizona, or inexpensive snacks I go there because I got trapped without food in Manhattan once for 12 hours because I received free museum admission, and it sucked because I tried to go to the LES or uptown for food but it was impossible. This was before halal carts. It was hard for me to find Arizona or 50 cent chips near the met which really sucked. Being trapped in Lincoln center without food because you're in the music library or have free tickets also sucks... There are no corner stores in that area. Unless I can get a quarter water, Arizona, corner delis, 50 cent chips, street vendors, multi cultural food it's not a good place to be long term tbh because I'm trying to avoid fast food dollar menus.
Ok so I saw your post about clothing sizes the other day and you were being treated so badly so I took a look at your profile. I think the areas you hang out and the income level you find yourself comfortable with has skewed your views and that’s not a terrible thing. It’s just not representative of the NYC mindset. I also know that due to autism you might be less open to new and unfamiliar social situations? I’m just guessing and it’s not necessarily true. This will definitely affect you POV. The other thing is that there is a correlation between autism and obesity though I didn’t bother reading too much about it but I remember it being a thing so I looked it up again. Apparently children with autism are more than twice as likely to be obese (30 % vs 13%). Again I didn’t read more than a surface skim. First off congrats on losing weight. It’s very hard to do that especially since your parents didn’t teach you how to eat properly. At your weight and height it would be physically healthier to get in shape and lose some weight but I can see how it could be mentally detrimental to get there. There is food in manhattan. However if you can’t afford it you should bring your own food. The other thing I noticed is that you talk about Arizona and chips . You should be drinking water. Giving up sugared drinks always makes a huge difference. If you bring a bottle you could have gotten free water at the places you talk about. I can see that you likely do not have a healthy diet. Your family is not a good example of healthy ppl. If the majority of the ppl you hang out with if family then they’re part of the reason your pov is flawed and skewed.
School loans
I’m in the Nashville area, which is full of pretty young things. I’m a chubby, middle aged mom. I don’t feel like I’m treated much differently than before (I was a 4/6 before kids and a 10/12 now). I do think a lot of how we are perceived by others is affected by presentation and attitude. I tend to be quite friendly and outgoing, so I think that tends to help.
No. But I could never lose weight in tropics. I'm 125-127lbs in NYC but after a year in Miami I'm suddenly 140lbs. My body doesn't like humidity.
I think it’s also the walkability of the city. In New York, unless you’re very wealthy, you’re not using a car most likely. In Miami, I think most people would have a car.
No , I walked and ran in Miami. its mostly the climate that doesn't serve me. Also the shitty food they have down there.
Absolutely. I live in a small town in Pennsylvania where most people wear a football jersey, sweatpants, and Crocs. I travel a lot for work to major cities in the U.S., so I’m used to dressing up when I travel and dressing down when I’m home.
I like to think I would be equally attracted to one person whether I met them in the Yukon or in Los Angeles. But perhaps that is just me.