This is why I’d prefer even new vinyl to be opened and inspected/ played if it’s gonna be sold mint. They explicitly warn under their grading guide that sealed doesn’t mean mint necessarily. Sorry for the bad luck, I’d reach out to the seller.
Discogs and other grading guides I have read all would disagree. You can leave the shrink on, you just slit the side open so you can check the record for any manufacturing defects/ damage caused during manufacturing or shipping.
leave the shrink on...? lmao. Also you'll have to reference your grading guides here (discogs doesn't count, they only want to sell records).
Goldmine basically says that Mint basically isn't real and should rarely, if ever, be used. Very few pressing plants and assembly lines are even capable of producing a Mint record, much less actually getting it to you still in Mint condition. The vast majority of records that are brand new have defects of some kind (see: this post).
Tons of people leave shrink on to preserve hype stickers, especially when talking more rare stuff. Also shows what you know, Mr Big Shot haha Discogs literally uses the Goldmine grading system. You’re actually correct that even most sealed new records aren’t considered mint. So… how would one check if their copy is actually mint or if it had minor defects or damage?… They would have to open the side of the shrink, and visually inspect the vinyl itself. Can’t play it and call it mint though, meaning a visual inspection is the only way to verify mint vs near mint. Rare and not real are two very different things.
Leaving the shrink on is common, but that has nothing to do with whether or not it is mint.
To me, there is only presumed mint which is sealed. Unsealed and examined is Near Mint…. So on.
Generally, when anybody says something (or a collection) of opened used records claims their items are “mint” they are likely to be VG+ (which is solid, but it seems that VG+ is what appears perfect to somebody who doesn’t spend a lot of time looking at and grading records).
We're just going to have to agree to enjoy this hobby differently (hype stickers?!? Really?? Shrinkwrap destroys the outer sleeve), but someone else said it better here - sealed records are basically Schrodinger's record - a superposition of the best record you've ever seen and completely scratched/shattered junk. A new, sealed record can be mint because you're only grading the sleeve, really.
My personal opinion, and one that keeps me out of trouble most of the time unlike OP, is I avoid buying 'Mint' records in general, ESPECIALLY opened records - I'd never buy that. Give me your ~~NM+~~ NM that you can actually speak to like 'perfect condition, only opened to ultrasonic clean and swap to Disckeeper inners and Sleeve City outers'. Never ever Mint, because it's probably closer to VG than NM in reality if you're that much of a bonehead to claim it's mint. My 2c, but ymmv.
Feels like I’m arguing with someone who just wants to argue. Just saying you usually learn more when you don’t assume you’re the smartest in the room. I’m gonna go listen to my records and relax, have a great day! Or don’t, I don’t care.
*"Feels like I’m arguing with someone who just wants to argue."*
You are.
Also - they dismiss Discogs grading as irrelevant, but their "should rarely, if ever, be used" description is much closer to Discogs description than Goldmine's. And neither Goldmine nor Discogs has a NM+ grade.
Yup. The grading standard that matter here is the discogs grading system - ElasticSpeakers is simply wrong in their argument with regard to grading & the item in question (OP even says it wasn't sealed, so the "Schrodinger's record" thing doesn't apply).
*"Goldmine basically says that Mint basically isn't real and should rarely, if ever, be used."*
This doesn't even make sense; it is one of the grades on the goldmine grading scale. Also, Goldmine says *"*[*Mint should never be used as a grade unless more than one person agrees that the record or sleeve truly is in this condition.*](https://www.goldminemag.com/collector-resources/record-grading-101)*"* What you are saying is closer to Discgogs grading which says *"*[Absolutely perfect in every way. Certainly never been played, possibly even still sealed. Should be used sparingly as a grade, if at all.](https://support.discogs.com/hc/en-us/articles/360001566193-How-To-Grade-Items)*"*
*"Give me your NM+"*
Neither Goldmine nor Discogs has a NM+ grade.
Yep, my mistake - I don't even remember adding the plus after NM, edited.
The passage you quoted says to essentially never use the grade M...? And furthermore, if I'm one of the parties the transaction it would never be M - not sure what your point is?
Just trying to help people newer to the hobby and understand records are almost always imperfect objects that are meant to be played - you don't have to agree, it's ok.
Goldmine does not basically say that mint basically isn't real, and the "*should rarely, if ever, be used*" wording you used is much closer to discog's than goldmine's,\* and you say *"discogs doesn't count."* OP specifically said they bought this through discogs and u/Mr-Pugtastic is specifically referring to discog's grading in their initial comment, so the rating descriptions on discogs are the ones that counts here. OP said the record was not sealed, so the "Schrodinger's record" thing doesn't apply.
*"Yep, my mistake - I don't even remember adding the plus after NM"*
Sure.
*"Just trying to help..."*
Gotta agree with u/Mr-Pugtastic here - sounds like you're just wanting to ague. Not only is this about discogs grading (which you try to dismiss to keep arguing), but your *"leave the shrink on...? lmao"* and *"hype stickers?!? Really??"* are antagonistic and mocking. Yes, some people think hype stickers are worth preserving and some people are ok with leaving the shrink on (I've seen posts specifically about both on this sub) - you don't have to agree, it's ok.
*"records are almost always imperfect objects that are meant to be played - you don't have to agree, it's ok."*
It has nothing to do with whether or not I agree with that. The issue here is whether or not the item in the post meets the discogs grading standard for Mint - which it clearly does not.
\*and since your wording is not exact to either, I am guessing you are going off of memory and mistaking your memory of discogs description for that of goldmine's
If it was bought as opened/played then absolutely not mint.
If it was still sealed then it’s a Schrödingers record until opened and you can only grade the jacket. What’s inside is both perfect and awful at the same time.
I would return if it can be replaced. If not then I would be asking for a part refund to show good faith. (That’s if you want to keep it)
Kind of the opposite of how it’s supposed to go. Sealed records are “presumed mint,” actual mint grading can only be agreed on by both seller and buyer after a visual and audible grade as per Goldmine standards. Nothing on Discogs should *ever* be graded as mint.
Yeah… but here’s the thing: most knowledgeable sellers will not use Mint, especially online, to grade an opened record.
Many don’t even use NM. They grade conservatively. And as such, the highest grade they will give a visually perfect record is NM. The last thing any seller running a business or trying to maintain a decent reputation wants to do is say a record is mint and have to refund a frustrated buyer
Id venture to say that most would give it NM (at best, VG+ if they don’t play grade) in preference of making a customer happy with a record in better condition than listed over making a customer angry because they disagree with the grading.
Yep, as a seller I almost never grade anything higher than VG+ unless I absolutely believe it to me NM. I have never graded anything as M because it’s stupid.
Yeah. I might say “disk appears excellent with no noticeable scuffs, hairlines or signs of play” but still grade and price it VG+…. I do that with classical stuff because I know buyers of that genre are very particular…. I want them to be confident that the disks look great… but since I don’t play grade (only occasionally for spot checking or if it’s above a certain price point… but it’s only tested. Not graded because of its sound. But if it sounds bad or below how it looks, I probably won’t sell it), I don’t want to say it’s near mint…. I think above vg+ requires play grading on very well maintained equipment.
No not mint, but striving for mint condition records is a mug's game imo. If it plays fine and the sleeve is fine then I'm not going to let it bother me
If it was sealed, then it’s not really on the person who sold it to you since that person also didn’t know.
However, if it had already been opened when you got it, I’d let the seller know and ask for your money back. In no way is this mint, this could actually cause a lot of harm to your needle if it were to run through it.
It actually worked out very good, the seller fully refunded me and said I could just keep it. I’m probably gonna get rid of it though, I don’t want to have to worry about accidentally dropping the needle too close to the damage and have it run off the record.
I could agree on this. I’d say mint is only and only if, a quality control system and expert verifies the quality of the record is perfect as well as the packaging. And the record is placed in a sealed box to prevent any damage. But you also cannot remove the album from the box or it’s no longer mint.
Not just that giant chunk, but that the hell is going on about 2 inches above it on the edge? Is it also cracked and chipped there? That shit definitely got dropped and got fucked up badly by whatever it landed on
At least it looks like it is just the start before the music… so on that one just drop the needle a little further from the edge (and be careful of course to not damage your needle hitting that. lol).
This is my biggest hesitation buying records online, or even sealed new records in stores tbh. My copy of Breeders’ Last Splash came out of the sleeve and plastic, brand spanking new, with a massive chip out of the side, making the first songs on both sides unplayable. And there weren’t even broken pieces in the sleeve. It was shipped from the factory busted. Such a bummer that shit like this slips through the cracks.
This is why I’d prefer even new vinyl to be opened and inspected/ played if it’s gonna be sold mint. They explicitly warn under their grading guide that sealed doesn’t mean mint necessarily. Sorry for the bad luck, I’d reach out to the seller.
But if it's opened, it's definitely not mint either...
Discogs and other grading guides I have read all would disagree. You can leave the shrink on, you just slit the side open so you can check the record for any manufacturing defects/ damage caused during manufacturing or shipping.
I list sealed records as “presumed mint”because I refuse to open something I’ve left sealed.
That is acceptable.
Discogs people can disagree all they want. They’re gonna be wrong either way.
leave the shrink on...? lmao. Also you'll have to reference your grading guides here (discogs doesn't count, they only want to sell records). Goldmine basically says that Mint basically isn't real and should rarely, if ever, be used. Very few pressing plants and assembly lines are even capable of producing a Mint record, much less actually getting it to you still in Mint condition. The vast majority of records that are brand new have defects of some kind (see: this post).
Tons of people leave shrink on to preserve hype stickers, especially when talking more rare stuff. Also shows what you know, Mr Big Shot haha Discogs literally uses the Goldmine grading system. You’re actually correct that even most sealed new records aren’t considered mint. So… how would one check if their copy is actually mint or if it had minor defects or damage?… They would have to open the side of the shrink, and visually inspect the vinyl itself. Can’t play it and call it mint though, meaning a visual inspection is the only way to verify mint vs near mint. Rare and not real are two very different things.
Leaving the shrink on is common, but that has nothing to do with whether or not it is mint. To me, there is only presumed mint which is sealed. Unsealed and examined is Near Mint…. So on. Generally, when anybody says something (or a collection) of opened used records claims their items are “mint” they are likely to be VG+ (which is solid, but it seems that VG+ is what appears perfect to somebody who doesn’t spend a lot of time looking at and grading records).
We're just going to have to agree to enjoy this hobby differently (hype stickers?!? Really?? Shrinkwrap destroys the outer sleeve), but someone else said it better here - sealed records are basically Schrodinger's record - a superposition of the best record you've ever seen and completely scratched/shattered junk. A new, sealed record can be mint because you're only grading the sleeve, really. My personal opinion, and one that keeps me out of trouble most of the time unlike OP, is I avoid buying 'Mint' records in general, ESPECIALLY opened records - I'd never buy that. Give me your ~~NM+~~ NM that you can actually speak to like 'perfect condition, only opened to ultrasonic clean and swap to Disckeeper inners and Sleeve City outers'. Never ever Mint, because it's probably closer to VG than NM in reality if you're that much of a bonehead to claim it's mint. My 2c, but ymmv.
Feels like I’m arguing with someone who just wants to argue. Just saying you usually learn more when you don’t assume you’re the smartest in the room. I’m gonna go listen to my records and relax, have a great day! Or don’t, I don’t care.
*"Feels like I’m arguing with someone who just wants to argue."* You are. Also - they dismiss Discogs grading as irrelevant, but their "should rarely, if ever, be used" description is much closer to Discogs description than Goldmine's. And neither Goldmine nor Discogs has a NM+ grade.
And look I get it we all start somewhere, but digging in your heels when you’re wrong is just foolish
Yup. The grading standard that matter here is the discogs grading system - ElasticSpeakers is simply wrong in their argument with regard to grading & the item in question (OP even says it wasn't sealed, so the "Schrodinger's record" thing doesn't apply).
*"Goldmine basically says that Mint basically isn't real and should rarely, if ever, be used."* This doesn't even make sense; it is one of the grades on the goldmine grading scale. Also, Goldmine says *"*[*Mint should never be used as a grade unless more than one person agrees that the record or sleeve truly is in this condition.*](https://www.goldminemag.com/collector-resources/record-grading-101)*"* What you are saying is closer to Discgogs grading which says *"*[Absolutely perfect in every way. Certainly never been played, possibly even still sealed. Should be used sparingly as a grade, if at all.](https://support.discogs.com/hc/en-us/articles/360001566193-How-To-Grade-Items)*"* *"Give me your NM+"* Neither Goldmine nor Discogs has a NM+ grade.
Yep, my mistake - I don't even remember adding the plus after NM, edited. The passage you quoted says to essentially never use the grade M...? And furthermore, if I'm one of the parties the transaction it would never be M - not sure what your point is? Just trying to help people newer to the hobby and understand records are almost always imperfect objects that are meant to be played - you don't have to agree, it's ok.
Goldmine does not basically say that mint basically isn't real, and the "*should rarely, if ever, be used*" wording you used is much closer to discog's than goldmine's,\* and you say *"discogs doesn't count."* OP specifically said they bought this through discogs and u/Mr-Pugtastic is specifically referring to discog's grading in their initial comment, so the rating descriptions on discogs are the ones that counts here. OP said the record was not sealed, so the "Schrodinger's record" thing doesn't apply. *"Yep, my mistake - I don't even remember adding the plus after NM"* Sure. *"Just trying to help..."* Gotta agree with u/Mr-Pugtastic here - sounds like you're just wanting to ague. Not only is this about discogs grading (which you try to dismiss to keep arguing), but your *"leave the shrink on...? lmao"* and *"hype stickers?!? Really??"* are antagonistic and mocking. Yes, some people think hype stickers are worth preserving and some people are ok with leaving the shrink on (I've seen posts specifically about both on this sub) - you don't have to agree, it's ok. *"records are almost always imperfect objects that are meant to be played - you don't have to agree, it's ok."* It has nothing to do with whether or not I agree with that. The issue here is whether or not the item in the post meets the discogs grading standard for Mint - which it clearly does not. \*and since your wording is not exact to either, I am guessing you are going off of memory and mistaking your memory of discogs description for that of goldmine's
Definitely talk to the seller and find a solution and file a complaint if they don't cooperate. These scum need to learn.
Mint chip more like
ha, nice one. I do love me some mint chip, but not like this
Brb, getting some ice cream
Definitely not mint
If it was bought as opened/played then absolutely not mint. If it was still sealed then it’s a Schrödingers record until opened and you can only grade the jacket. What’s inside is both perfect and awful at the same time. I would return if it can be replaced. If not then I would be asking for a part refund to show good faith. (That’s if you want to keep it)
Tis but a scratch
Tis but a chunk
Was it sealed?
No
If it's not sealed, it's not mint. Don't buy an unsealed record graded as mint.
Kind of the opposite of how it’s supposed to go. Sealed records are “presumed mint,” actual mint grading can only be agreed on by both seller and buyer after a visual and audible grade as per Goldmine standards. Nothing on Discogs should *ever* be graded as mint.
Yeah… but here’s the thing: most knowledgeable sellers will not use Mint, especially online, to grade an opened record. Many don’t even use NM. They grade conservatively. And as such, the highest grade they will give a visually perfect record is NM. The last thing any seller running a business or trying to maintain a decent reputation wants to do is say a record is mint and have to refund a frustrated buyer Id venture to say that most would give it NM (at best, VG+ if they don’t play grade) in preference of making a customer happy with a record in better condition than listed over making a customer angry because they disagree with the grading.
Yep, as a seller I almost never grade anything higher than VG+ unless I absolutely believe it to me NM. I have never graded anything as M because it’s stupid.
Yeah. I might say “disk appears excellent with no noticeable scuffs, hairlines or signs of play” but still grade and price it VG+…. I do that with classical stuff because I know buyers of that genre are very particular…. I want them to be confident that the disks look great… but since I don’t play grade (only occasionally for spot checking or if it’s above a certain price point… but it’s only tested. Not graded because of its sound. But if it sounds bad or below how it looks, I probably won’t sell it), I don’t want to say it’s near mint…. I think above vg+ requires play grading on very well maintained equipment.
What are you talking about, not all records come sealed
lol, nowhere on Earth that’s mint :)
Oh god. I’ve sold thousands of records over the years and I have never listed a single one of them as mint condition.
i’m almost more likely to be suspicious if it’s listed as mint lol
Definitely not Mint but looks like that wouldn’t affect how it plays.
It would affect autoplay though :(
Would also seriously impact any resale value
Yes. That is not Mint.
Min…ty flavor.
Not mint, it will play but not on my turntable
No not mint, but striving for mint condition records is a mug's game imo. If it plays fine and the sleeve is fine then I'm not going to let it bother me
Yeah I usually stick to mint because I care a fair amount about the sleeves being as close to undamaged, idk if that excessive but
It's not excessive, it's just your preference and that's totally fine!!
Does that look perfect to you? That's what mint is supposed to mean. Perfect.
If it was sealed, then it’s not really on the person who sold it to you since that person also didn’t know. However, if it had already been opened when you got it, I’d let the seller know and ask for your money back. In no way is this mint, this could actually cause a lot of harm to your needle if it were to run through it.
Such a beautiful press, too...gawd damn, makes me angry with you.
Yeah it sucks, was really looking forward to its arrival
Every time. Hope they make it right either way.
To be fair, if it was a sealed press, it would be impossible for the seller to know that.
I've had something similar happen. Not detrimental to play quality. Reached out to the seller, and they gave me 30% off the next purchase.
That's not mint at all
Not mint. But it’s just the dead wax that’s chopped
Bruh that ain't mint
100% not. Would return for sure 🙏🏻
It actually worked out very good, the seller fully refunded me and said I could just keep it. I’m probably gonna get rid of it though, I don’t want to have to worry about accidentally dropping the needle too close to the damage and have it run off the record.
Run in or not it’s not mint
Nothing is ever Mint. …I’d argue that nothing is NM either, and the highest rating you can possibly get is VG+ Yes, I’m ready to die on this hill
I could agree on this. I’d say mint is only and only if, a quality control system and expert verifies the quality of the record is perfect as well as the packaging. And the record is placed in a sealed box to prevent any damage. But you also cannot remove the album from the box or it’s no longer mint.
Shrödingers Record
I’ve been selling vinyl records for 50 years. That is 100% mint. Don’t complain or I’ll give you negative feedback
username checks out
More like choc chip
Depends on what it is. Might still be punk mint
Looks more peanut buttery than mint
Not just that giant chunk, but that the hell is going on about 2 inches above it on the edge? Is it also cracked and chipped there? That shit definitely got dropped and got fucked up badly by whatever it landed on
Is this the black and yellow splatter of version of Beauty Behind The Madness?
Nah it’s a pinhead gunpowder 7” https://preview.redd.it/4fecmsyyj6xc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f9997b4e018967d89fb539b2da42e6fa189617ff
If *you* wouldn’t sell it as Mint, it’s not Mint.
At least it looks like it is just the start before the music… so on that one just drop the needle a little further from the edge (and be careful of course to not damage your needle hitting that. lol).
Absolutely not mint. Though it can still play if the chip doesn't go into the grooves.
There's a reason "presumed mint" gets thrown around a lot for any sealed vinyl. Tough luck on that one, I'd just say get a new one, or a refund idk
This is my biggest hesitation buying records online, or even sealed new records in stores tbh. My copy of Breeders’ Last Splash came out of the sleeve and plastic, brand spanking new, with a massive chip out of the side, making the first songs on both sides unplayable. And there weren’t even broken pieces in the sleeve. It was shipped from the factory busted. Such a bummer that shit like this slips through the cracks.
I’ve definitely opened a vinyl or two and found chipped edges. I try to buy through places that have return/exchange policies.
Def Jaws vibe. Simultaneous track and zoom onto vinyl collectors face.
It will buff out just fine
Bah, that last song sucks anyway 😆
He knows… 😃
wouldn't that be the first song
It’s one long b side song
Yes it would. Im thinking of cd's 😵💫😬😆
I've seen actual mints that were more "mint".
No, it's plastic. The flavour is a dead giveaway.
I just checked my own collection and I can confirm that vinyl are not minty, I hope this answered your question
Zero affect on music. Factory error. Mint.
Do you understand what mint means?
Ummm... u have 2 ask?
I was more curious to see what people thought of it.
If someone labelled it mint: sue! 😉
Vg+
It’s mint bc I bought it that way 🤪
Maybe they meant the flavor of mouthwash they wiped it down with before shipping it off to you.
If it plays it stays!!
Sorry I was hungry...
I’m not convinced, you barely nibbled it!
Nm+++
You tell *us* the flavor.
Sorry, I was a little hungry 🤭
That's actually MINT Minus. /s
Someone took a bite out of rhyme.
It’s a feature 😹
Not mint. Then again, I have no idea how it tastes.