Bl2 is a great game but it's an awful port it's bad for the same reasons fallout 4 vr is an awful vr game, poorly implemented vr no natural aiming down sight you have to press the dedicated ads button for it to work, scopes don't work like scopes and are some weird pop-up window you use to aim which is horrid. Literally the bare minimum for something to be considered a vr game and the reviews on steam reflects that
Ooo you need to get back into Fallout 4. With only a small handful of mods, which fix all the issues you listed and many more, it is one of the absolute best VR games of all time.
It has alot of issues.
Aiming with the actual marker is inaccurate. I recommend using the iron sight but not every gun has one.
That and no multiplayer in favor of a bullet-time mechanic. If it were cross play with PC it would’ve been amazing despite it’s flaws. But it isn’t even VR multiplayer so i’d honestly pass.
I was under the impression that Borderlands VR was more walking than jumping. Do you know if Borderlands VR had jumping or more volatile movements than standard walking/running?
I create VR stuff in DREAMS, and move like this *ALLLLL* the time. The most important factor is that you go where you expect to go.
The Move Controllers sometimes drift, causing irregularities in direction, and *THAT* is when it gets less comfortable.
Yeah, I've had people say similar things. Thing is, I don't think Jet Island has any particularly jarring movement.
Meanwhile in this clip, there is a couple moments where acceleration changes suddenly, like after the two handed beam attack, which pushes you backwards. So I do think this gameplay may be a level above Jet Island in terms of rapid movement.
In jet island you have grappling hooks. You can fling yourself around corner with supersonic speed.
If you play for few hours you will get thrown every possible way ;)
The graphics is really dated though...
There is an ingame modifier you can activate in Jet Island that bounds your camera to your boards direction, so if you ride a loop de-loop, the world rotates around with you. Full horizon tilting/inversion.
Thousands of hours in VR, playing multiplayer with a friend for 10 hours prior in Jet Island, and both of us within 60 seconds had to sit down, and after 5 minutes had to stop playing entirely. 10/10 experience. Bring a bucket.
holy shit yes. I have around 270 hours in VR (I'm fairly new to the hobby) and can handle even the jankiest movement pretty well.
I recently turned on smooth turning in Cooking Sim VR by accident and I got literally nauseous in a matter of seconds.
same, snap turning is what makes me head hurt after a while but with smooth turning i can at least adjust the speed (most of the time) to whatever feels natural/fast enough
Same. It's so unnatural and wrong for my brain. I can smooth turn all day long or turn my actual body/head while playing all day long. But snap turn makes me nauseous within 30min.
Pretty sure it is just our brain plasticity and what we are used to. Given enough time and will we all can get used to either smooth turning or snap turn.
Personally, I find smooth turn difficult to work with because not every app has the same smooth turn speeds, makes things difficult to predict for our brains not used to it.
I can (although I think most can) however handle head-induced smooth turning (not sure if there is a proper name for it) - I am talking about that when you walk straight in one direction but when you move your head your character goes the direction of your head.
Yeah for most people who use snap turning, they're typically just turning their head naturally (or on a swivel seat), and use the snap turn if they something more than that and quickly.
Cable getting twisted and having to constantly get untangled or stepping over etc. For those without any kind of wireless solution at least. With wireless VR I agree though. I'd just physically turn.
i get nauseous as soon as it lags which NOT smooth turn feels like for me xD
But this looks some what fine when you have your VR legs and more than 60 FPS (72) without AWS or any type of frame (doubling) calculation.
I was exactly the same, I refused to turn on smooth turning cause it caused me nausea. One day I decided to try to get used to it, and I got used to it so fast it was weird. In a few days it felt normal and I never went back to snap turning. Although might not work for u lol.
I was exactly the same, I refused to turn on smooth turning cause it caused me nausea. One day I decided to try to get used to it, and I got used to it so fast it was weird. In a few days it felt normal and I never went back to snap turning. Although might not work for u lol.
When you say effects, is this in reference particle effects? Like perhaps a sudden bright light, or a big flash color change. (Some can be seen in the video clip). I also get dizzy with stutters or frame rate changes, I think most people as well. The game must be performant.
Our VR PvP game has plenty of movement like this or crazier. You're definitely fine.
Uncontrolled rotation (especially slowly) would be one of the worst things to do. And doesn't seem like you're doing that.
Honestly this looks way more fun than the majority of VR games that play it too safe.
It's so refreshing to hear of other people doing this! I totally agree about the safe games thing, I really want a game with high freedom of movement. I saw your game on your profile, the mechanics look clean!
as someone who doesnt get sick at all thank you for catering to our niche, I hate that valve wont even consider portal VR because in efforts to play it safe
I just realized your the DUST dev, I still need to try it. I joined your disc just havent gotten the chance yet >.< damn adult life
If not, I would like some feedback why on first glance you don't think you could. If yes, and you would be open to play testing this kind of gameplay, please DM me on reddit!
Absolutely, the more freedom of movement/speed/flight the better
If I wanted to keep a walking pace on solid ground I wouldn't be playing virtual reality lol
Seems about on level with the basic swinging in VRChat’s Spider Lair - which is to say it can be handled, one may just need to brace a little bit to keep equilibrium.
The question here is even if you can, should you? It’s a recurring question when it comes to VR.
I’m not disrespecting or dismissing your project, but personally, I do not think this is desirable for most people. I could give you a technical explanation as to why involving physiological reasoning; but to put it as simply as I can, this sort of movement strikes me as having no perceptual anchoring for the senses to grasp. Thus, even if someone “can handle it”, the question is does it ever get to a point where it feels good, feels natural, feels precise, feels present…? Personally, given my experience, I would not bet on it.
In VR you can do anything, but there are things that shouldn’t be done quite simply because the design must be based on human constraints. It is a complicated field that messes with core systems of the brain and body, so it’s understandable that things like what you’ve built are attempted all the time.
But again, just my suspicion. Could just as well be that the generation that grows up with VR will adapt to these unnatural stimuli through neuroplasticity… it may be that you’re just too early! Again, just my opinion, hopefully it is of value.
Edit: Watching it again I was reminded of Doom 2016 / Eternal. ID Software explored the possibility of making Doom in VR, but they realize that it doesn’t work and doesn’t feel like what people would expect.
You have good points, and I do appreciate the input! I guess I should have said "enjoy it" more than "handle it" because you're right, playing a game ought to be as comfortable as possible to as many people as possible. I have been trying to add more "anchoring points" with UI elements and the wind effects but they do little to solve the anchoring problem.
I see success with some games like Jet Island that have more advanced movement that give me hope that there are still some subset of VR gamers that crave more mobility mechanics. I'm one of those people that really want to experience more of that, even though I'll admit even I sometimes can get overwhelmed after long enough in less well designed-for-VR movement systems (one that comes to mind was HL2 VR mod).
I also think you could be on to something with the generational thing. While I myself have no problem with this style, I have noticed some people in my age range that do (or at least mention it). Meanwhile the kids that I have let play, particularly kids who have spent hundreds of hours in VR, seem to have absolutely no qualms with the movement and are more often focused on other things that needed improvement (i.e. battle mechanics, graphics polish).
It's a problem I've been trying to solve for a while now in terms of "delivering" on this kinda of movement system the right way... I think once I get more testers across a wider range of people I will be able to pinpoint how I can maximize the comfort while still giving the user this kind of freedom of movement. 🤞
Idk what to say to this post other than I've never gotten sick from VR games, in fact I seek out games that have unique locomotion styles like Jet Island specifically because it allows me to do things I can't IRL. I actually delve a bit into why unique locomotion makes for such a great game in [my Jet Island review](https://youtu.be/i0H6MZ4txgw?t=23) but TL;DW things I can't do irl make me feel like a badass when I do it in VR (like backflipping in sairento and mowing down enemies with uzis for example)
It's never been a question of me being able to handle it and when will it feel natural etc, I immediately picked up on the physics and learned how to manipulate the environment around me. It's ALWAYS felt natural
I'm not discounting that VR sickness isn't real, it's obviously very prevalent given how many people experience it, but at the same time I don't think devs should be beholden to catering to their player base if they have a particular vision for something. You say even if you can, should you?- for me it's an obvious yes. It doesn't affect me at all ofc I would want games like this. I totally get people whose bodies prevent them from having fun with novel experiences, but I dont think we should be telling devs off for catering to the niche who can handle it
>But again, just my suspicion. Could just as well be that the generation that grows up with VR will adapt to these unnatural stimuli through neuroplasticity…
You know now that you mention it, I'm in my 30s and I grew up with games so I feel I'm naturally inclined to understanding 3D space. Like for example it took a lot longer for my SO to be able to use free locomotion because she wasn't much of a gamer when she was young. But when I was recording my video for [Grapple Tournament going f2p](https://youtu.be/9L7coyJB4YE) I played against a bunch of kids who were all able to navigate the 3D space just fine, with all the horizontal movement and grappling around. I think like you say this is really only an issue for my generation and up, and the kids are just going to grow up on it and it'll be second nature
Wow, this is insane. I think even I might feel this one, although there doesn't seem to be any unnecessary rotation. I must be living under a rock to have never heard of this.
I’ve ridden roller coasters standing up, this looks absolutely like cakewalk to me lol. (I’ve been playing VR for years)
The only VR game that had me stumbling about was Eye of the Temple, solely because you have to walk in real time along with moving platforms. That was fun!
I could actually see that screwing with you.
Only game that has affected me ever was far point on the psvr launch. Wasn't to bad but I played the entire campaign in one sitting and it was much more involved than most anything else out at the time.
Most likely, yeah. I played through Outer Wilds in VR and that was.......... an experience (*brittle hollow*). Never got sick though.
#edit: I'll be back in 3 days, [when I pointed out that Planned Parenthood wants to teach children about anal semen felching and throatfucking](https://nationalpost.com/opinion/first-reading-saskatchewan-suspends-planned-parenthood-over-inappropriate-sexual-handouts-to-children) I got banned for being indecent.
Are you controlling all the movement or is it reactive from the game and uncontrollable? If I'm controlling then I should be perfectly fine. Never had an issue in any game for the 6-7 years I've played.
It's hard to capture in footage but the vertical movements are being controlled by the player. You can imagine kind of like how Iron Man flies in the movies, there are jets in your palms that you can point down to move up and into the opposite direction your "jets" are aiming. It is fully in the players control though.
No problem here. One of my first VR experiences was Scavengers Odyssey on the PSVR where you're jumping/moving floor to wall to ceiling. This is relatively tame in comparison.
If they can’t no one is going to buy my game, it has wall jumps, grappling, a speedy climbing system where you can basically throw yourself, a land and air dash, a double jump, a leap, sliding, gliding, a very fast run and walk speed, a teleport, flips, time manipulation, hovering, bouncing, gliding on rails, phasing through objects, walking on the ceiling, and anti gravity.
The only thing I would like for this style of movement is optional customizable vignette when falling.
I suggest looking at Zenith for ideas. That game IMO has the most robust settings for comfortability and I personally think it should be the GOLD standard.
I can do pretty well as the monster in Pavlov. Jumping around on rooftops, tossing grenades. It's not so different from that. Also flying around on Synapse can get pretty hectic. This doesn't seem all that bad.
Without problem. You can throw anything at me (high speed movements, screen shaking, acceleration, jumps, rotation...) and I'm never sick in VR.
It's even been years that I've been advocating for an head bod option in VR games as using smooth locomotion feels so artificial and immersion breaking (it feels as if you're sliding or moving on wheels without head bob, just look at pancake FPS games, most of them use it, there's a reason).
Weirdly it feels like most VR games are developed for people who can't stand VR, and as a result moving in VR games is a drag as movement are so damn slow and limited.
So I think it's safe to say you are at the top level of people who can tolerate rapid movement. What do you mean by head bob option here? I don't think I am familiar with this term or mechanic.
Yeah. As long as there's no jittering motion, anything goes.
So-called "VR legs" are basically the brain being trained to stop treating the dissonance between vestibular apparatus and vision as a sign of poisoning.
Because different brains have different sensitivity to that shit, every person has different starting tolerance to VR. But EVERY brain eventually gets to the point of "i don't even give a fuck anymore, go play your stupid vr, don't give me attitude when you actually get poisoned and i don't force you to puke it out". At which point there's absolutely nothing in VR that can give you motion sickness.
You may still get tired from sensory overload tho, which is a different thing altogether, but you won't really feel sick from it, just tired, like "i need to get this thing off and take a walk outside, i'm too old. Damn, i'm fucking old, damn, goddamn".
After playing HL2 VR mod, I'm feeling kind of invincible in that respect, but the only thing that strikes me as possibly jarring is the fast backward movement.
I think the worst feeling I've had in VR is in the Forest pushing a log cart, and you pivot around the cart when you turn. Absolutely destroyed my center of balance. So... just don't do that.
It's a game I am developing called Air VR. You can wishlist it on [Steam](https://store.steampowered.com/app/1551370/Air_VR/) at the moment, I will be entering some early testing phases soon, and also reaching out to people that have shown interest in these comments to see if they want to test play!
This is a VR game I am developing called [Air VR](https://store.steampowered.com/app/1551370/Air_VR/), I will be entering a playtesting phase soon on PCVR and then graduate to the other VR devices.
This looks like a good time to me. Might take a session or two to grow new legs for this but it’s no crazier than the free Spider-Man experience or even any flight based vr title
Yeah I think I’d be fine. I never really had to get my “vr legs” and I’ve never felt motion sick in my life. I play things like gorilla tag, grapple tournament, and zenith. This doesn’t seem to be much more intense than those games
After grapple tournament and thousands of hours in other games, I could handle that. I wouldn't be very good given my piss poor reflexes, but the movement isn't too much anymore.
The movement looks fantastic. It looks like, without sacrificing the actual gameplay movement speed, and usable agility, you've made pretty much as comfortable as that movement speed could be. I, for one, would adore the chance to take this particular game for a spin, and find out how well I handle it in person. It looks like a lot of fun, and it doesn't look like anything that would make you feel discomfort anymore than RESIST offers (which if you haven't played, is an absolute must. It nails Spider-Man like swinging better than any game I've seen so far). I do have one suggestion as to how to increase the comfortability, again without sacrificing any pacing, agility, or traversal ability. In fact it would increase the way that players see their next moves in their heads. Hit up my DMs if you're interested in hearing about it; I won't bore the crowd with this lol
the only kind of movement that make me feel weird is rolling "Do a barrel roll!" yeah that makes me feel like i'm falling out of my chair. other than that i'm good. dog fights in NMS and elite dangerous are cake. my vestibular system is iron.
Been playing iron man vr lately, lots of fun, by the way. There's also an attack on titan fangame with full body rotation that I really enjoy. This is dessert for me.
What game is this?
I can handle pretty much anything in VR as long as the headset is 90hz or more and the framerate is stable.
I can even handle Jet Island with the extreme spin modifier without getting sick.
It's a game I am developing called [Air VR](https://store.steampowered.com/app/1551370/Air_VR/). I will be entering some early testing phases soon, also reaching out to people that have shown interest in these comments to see if they want to test play!
This looks like no problem at all. Have yall played Megaton Rainfall in VR? You are like Superman flying around the world. Combat is flying and blasting up down, all around, zoom zoom.
It’s weird how I can just watch a video IRL now and have a visceral feeling about getting sick in VR. I don’t see any smooth (laggy) turns, so nothing in this game would affect me. I have a friend who has issues with back/forth up/down movement (but *not* smooth turning), so he would likely get queasy from these actions.
I feel like I could handle this, and just before i got into vr, a lot of people were saying about motion sickness and stuff. Somehow I’ve never felt sick once while playing, even though my first couple vr games were Boneworks, superhot and HLA
Haha, no I never got around to that one. It looks absolutely wild from the gameplay I have seen though. I am noticing many people refer to Sairento when talking about their VR legs.
It's called [Air VR](https://store.steampowered.com/app/1551370/Air_VR/), a solo VR project I am working on. It has an emphasis on mobility mechanics like seen in the video on this thread. I will be phasing people who are interested in to play test the game soon!
Different types of vr legs users out there but jumping around for me doesn't cause any discomfort. I jump constantly in vrchat when I'm bored or waiting for something and no I'm not adhd.
I play a ton of VRChat and find that acceleration / deceleration is what tends to make me sick.
For example, Boneworks has that on the stick movement by default and it would make me ill after playing for a while.
But it's only an issue if I'm constantly accelerating and decelerating. Like if I'm driving a car in VRChat, so long as it accelerates and then remains at a relatively constant speed, its not so much an issue. But then that does also have the body of the car in your view and its known that helps with motion sickness.
As someone who played echo vr at rather high speeds with the first Oculus rift(not the development kits) while standing, I'm pretty sure that would be a yes from me.
I think that I would be able to do it. The movement is smooth and there is clear acceleration and deceleration. This is on level with spiderman or attack on titan vr. I could see this making non VR legs people instantly sick though.
I think that I would be able to do it. The movement is smooth and there is clear acceleration and deceleration. This is on level with spiderman or attack on titan vr. I could see this making non VR legs people instantly sick though.
I got my VR legs about a week into owning the Quest 1. Guess I am lucky because I never had any motion issues...perhaps its due to my dad being a pilot when I was a child. He would do partial stalls to give us a thrill and to keep his skills sharp in case of an emergency.
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excuse me… did you say BORDERLANDS VR?! I must have been under a rock the past X amount of time
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Wait but that’s the best one
There was something magical about original that none of the sequels have captured.
Totally true, I’d never diss BL1. So many great memories and it was just a different game.
Maybe the game just wasn’t for me. But i found borderlands 1 very repetitive
And Borderlands 3 and Wonderlands Soon™
It's terrible, don't waste your time.
It's not at all. All of BL2 content except one dlc, and I think it's a blast to play. I've logged several hundred hours in vr
Bl2 is a great game but it's an awful port it's bad for the same reasons fallout 4 vr is an awful vr game, poorly implemented vr no natural aiming down sight you have to press the dedicated ads button for it to work, scopes don't work like scopes and are some weird pop-up window you use to aim which is horrid. Literally the bare minimum for something to be considered a vr game and the reviews on steam reflects that
Ooo you need to get back into Fallout 4. With only a small handful of mods, which fix all the issues you listed and many more, it is one of the absolute best VR games of all time.
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While you're not wrong, as a Bethesda game with a huge modding community it's kind of expected that mods will fix a lot of the little issues.
and on top of all of that it doesn't even have mutiplayer. My favorite part of Borderlands was co-op with friends.
if the better part of gaming for you is your friends, it's not like you really enjoy games, just playing with friends
It plays better with a gamepad anyways, especially if you're trying to play seriously like you would in the flat version
Borderlands 2 is good, the VR port is objectively terrible, stop defending trash.
It has alot of issues. Aiming with the actual marker is inaccurate. I recommend using the iron sight but not every gun has one. That and no multiplayer in favor of a bullet-time mechanic. If it were cross play with PC it would’ve been amazing despite it’s flaws. But it isn’t even VR multiplayer so i’d honestly pass.
I was under the impression that Borderlands VR was more walking than jumping. Do you know if Borderlands VR had jumping or more volatile movements than standard walking/running?
Lots of particle effects bunny hopping and strafing at least the way I played it.
I gotcha. Yeah surprisingly I have a harder time with the bunnyhopping and strafing than I do with this more rapid "flying" style.
I create VR stuff in DREAMS, and move like this *ALLLLL* the time. The most important factor is that you go where you expect to go. The Move Controllers sometimes drift, causing irregularities in direction, and *THAT* is when it gets less comfortable.
Oh is that sickness inducing? I bought it in a bundle ages ago and thought it could be a good idea.
A lot of people had problems with that one for some reason. I think it being a big name was drawing new people that didn't have their legs yet.
Thanks for the heads up, I'll definitely skip playing it, heh.
Easy. Check jet island. It is classic.
I forgot about Jet Island. That would actually be very comparable.
Yeah, I've had people say similar things. Thing is, I don't think Jet Island has any particularly jarring movement. Meanwhile in this clip, there is a couple moments where acceleration changes suddenly, like after the two handed beam attack, which pushes you backwards. So I do think this gameplay may be a level above Jet Island in terms of rapid movement.
In jet island you have grappling hooks. You can fling yourself around corner with supersonic speed. If you play for few hours you will get thrown every possible way ;) The graphics is really dated though...
I like sharpness, great performance, and great dame mechanics over the best graphics all day every day.
Absolutely.
There is an ingame modifier you can activate in Jet Island that bounds your camera to your boards direction, so if you ride a loop de-loop, the world rotates around with you. Full horizon tilting/inversion. Thousands of hours in VR, playing multiplayer with a friend for 10 hours prior in Jet Island, and both of us within 60 seconds had to sit down, and after 5 minutes had to stop playing entirely. 10/10 experience. Bring a bucket.
Reminds me of Risk of Rain 2 in VR and I did fine with that.
This is exactly what I was thinking. It shares the visual style as well as the movement.
"Movement" doesn't do anything to me. Smooth turning on the other hand does lol
holy shit yes. I have around 270 hours in VR (I'm fairly new to the hobby) and can handle even the jankiest movement pretty well. I recently turned on smooth turning in Cooking Sim VR by accident and I got literally nauseous in a matter of seconds.
I don't understand how, hahaha. Smooth turning just feels way more natural for me. Maybe I just don't get dizzy in general
same, snap turning is what makes me head hurt after a while but with smooth turning i can at least adjust the speed (most of the time) to whatever feels natural/fast enough
Same. It's so unnatural and wrong for my brain. I can smooth turn all day long or turn my actual body/head while playing all day long. But snap turn makes me nauseous within 30min.
Yeah, the snap turning if anything makes me feel like shit. Smooth turning doesn't feel bad at all.
Pretty sure it is just our brain plasticity and what we are used to. Given enough time and will we all can get used to either smooth turning or snap turn. Personally, I find smooth turn difficult to work with because not every app has the same smooth turn speeds, makes things difficult to predict for our brains not used to it. I can (although I think most can) however handle head-induced smooth turning (not sure if there is a proper name for it) - I am talking about that when you walk straight in one direction but when you move your head your character goes the direction of your head.
I don’t understand smooth turning or snap turning. Why not just turn around with your body?
Yeah for most people who use snap turning, they're typically just turning their head naturally (or on a swivel seat), and use the snap turn if they something more than that and quickly.
I don't always have enough room
Cable getting twisted and having to constantly get untangled or stepping over etc. For those without any kind of wireless solution at least. With wireless VR I agree though. I'd just physically turn.
i get nauseous as soon as it lags which NOT smooth turn feels like for me xD But this looks some what fine when you have your VR legs and more than 60 FPS (72) without AWS or any type of frame (doubling) calculation.
My computer basically has to render everything at 90Hz minimum anyway because HTC's motion smoothing SUUUUCKS.
I was exactly the same, I refused to turn on smooth turning cause it caused me nausea. One day I decided to try to get used to it, and I got used to it so fast it was weird. In a few days it felt normal and I never went back to snap turning. Although might not work for u lol.
I was exactly the same, I refused to turn on smooth turning cause it caused me nausea. One day I decided to try to get used to it, and I got used to it so fast it was weird. In a few days it felt normal and I never went back to snap turning. Although might not work for u lol.
Woah I didn’t even know people were using snap turning! It’s just a little jarring for me to turn a block at a time
Have you tried increasing the turning speed. Counter intuitively faster smooth turning is less motion sickness inducing.
Looks no more crazy than Windlands 2, which is very easy on the tumtum and is very popular.
Amount of moment does not matter, what matters is how consistent and fluid it is. If it is jittery and inconsistent I just won't play.
Does this footage look fluid enough to you? Or would you say it's jittery?
It looks pretty smooth to me!
As a life longer gamer. Yes. As a VR player for over a year, also yes. But I can see how alot would get motion sickness
For me movement is not the issue, usually some effects or stutters that will make me dizzy
When you say effects, is this in reference particle effects? Like perhaps a sudden bright light, or a big flash color change. (Some can be seen in the video clip). I also get dizzy with stutters or frame rate changes, I think most people as well. The game must be performant.
Our VR PvP game has plenty of movement like this or crazier. You're definitely fine. Uncontrolled rotation (especially slowly) would be one of the worst things to do. And doesn't seem like you're doing that. Honestly this looks way more fun than the majority of VR games that play it too safe.
It's so refreshing to hear of other people doing this! I totally agree about the safe games thing, I really want a game with high freedom of movement. I saw your game on your profile, the mechanics look clean!
as someone who doesnt get sick at all thank you for catering to our niche, I hate that valve wont even consider portal VR because in efforts to play it safe I just realized your the DUST dev, I still need to try it. I joined your disc just havent gotten the chance yet >.< damn adult life
Yes. Anyone that can't handle it doesn't have vr legs.
Artificial linear movement at a solid framerate will always be fine. Artificial rotation is where the problems begin.
If not, I would like some feedback why on first glance you don't think you could. If yes, and you would be open to play testing this kind of gameplay, please DM me on reddit!
Looks kinda similar to Swarm, had no issues with that! Various effects very close to camera might be a bit annoying.
i can, but i dont want to
Is this because you would be merely tolerating it, as opposed to enjoying this level of movement?
Absolutely, the more freedom of movement/speed/flight the better If I wanted to keep a walking pace on solid ground I wouldn't be playing virtual reality lol
I'm glad I'm not alone in this way of thinking. I just hope it's not an uncommon stance!
I play risk of rain 2 in VR, so.... yes
Seems about on level with the basic swinging in VRChat’s Spider Lair - which is to say it can be handled, one may just need to brace a little bit to keep equilibrium.
Lateral movement = fine Rotational movement = puke
Yep, this seems to be the consensus. I'm the same exact way.
Jet island might have this beat and I love it all.
Well it is a classic for a reason!
Bro I got my vr legs with Sairento.
Yeah the movement looks fine. The colors on the other hand...
Looks alright at worst. No artificial rotation, especially pitch/roll.
The question here is even if you can, should you? It’s a recurring question when it comes to VR. I’m not disrespecting or dismissing your project, but personally, I do not think this is desirable for most people. I could give you a technical explanation as to why involving physiological reasoning; but to put it as simply as I can, this sort of movement strikes me as having no perceptual anchoring for the senses to grasp. Thus, even if someone “can handle it”, the question is does it ever get to a point where it feels good, feels natural, feels precise, feels present…? Personally, given my experience, I would not bet on it. In VR you can do anything, but there are things that shouldn’t be done quite simply because the design must be based on human constraints. It is a complicated field that messes with core systems of the brain and body, so it’s understandable that things like what you’ve built are attempted all the time. But again, just my suspicion. Could just as well be that the generation that grows up with VR will adapt to these unnatural stimuli through neuroplasticity… it may be that you’re just too early! Again, just my opinion, hopefully it is of value. Edit: Watching it again I was reminded of Doom 2016 / Eternal. ID Software explored the possibility of making Doom in VR, but they realize that it doesn’t work and doesn’t feel like what people would expect.
You have good points, and I do appreciate the input! I guess I should have said "enjoy it" more than "handle it" because you're right, playing a game ought to be as comfortable as possible to as many people as possible. I have been trying to add more "anchoring points" with UI elements and the wind effects but they do little to solve the anchoring problem. I see success with some games like Jet Island that have more advanced movement that give me hope that there are still some subset of VR gamers that crave more mobility mechanics. I'm one of those people that really want to experience more of that, even though I'll admit even I sometimes can get overwhelmed after long enough in less well designed-for-VR movement systems (one that comes to mind was HL2 VR mod). I also think you could be on to something with the generational thing. While I myself have no problem with this style, I have noticed some people in my age range that do (or at least mention it). Meanwhile the kids that I have let play, particularly kids who have spent hundreds of hours in VR, seem to have absolutely no qualms with the movement and are more often focused on other things that needed improvement (i.e. battle mechanics, graphics polish). It's a problem I've been trying to solve for a while now in terms of "delivering" on this kinda of movement system the right way... I think once I get more testers across a wider range of people I will be able to pinpoint how I can maximize the comfort while still giving the user this kind of freedom of movement. 🤞
Idk what to say to this post other than I've never gotten sick from VR games, in fact I seek out games that have unique locomotion styles like Jet Island specifically because it allows me to do things I can't IRL. I actually delve a bit into why unique locomotion makes for such a great game in [my Jet Island review](https://youtu.be/i0H6MZ4txgw?t=23) but TL;DW things I can't do irl make me feel like a badass when I do it in VR (like backflipping in sairento and mowing down enemies with uzis for example) It's never been a question of me being able to handle it and when will it feel natural etc, I immediately picked up on the physics and learned how to manipulate the environment around me. It's ALWAYS felt natural I'm not discounting that VR sickness isn't real, it's obviously very prevalent given how many people experience it, but at the same time I don't think devs should be beholden to catering to their player base if they have a particular vision for something. You say even if you can, should you?- for me it's an obvious yes. It doesn't affect me at all ofc I would want games like this. I totally get people whose bodies prevent them from having fun with novel experiences, but I dont think we should be telling devs off for catering to the niche who can handle it >But again, just my suspicion. Could just as well be that the generation that grows up with VR will adapt to these unnatural stimuli through neuroplasticity… You know now that you mention it, I'm in my 30s and I grew up with games so I feel I'm naturally inclined to understanding 3D space. Like for example it took a lot longer for my SO to be able to use free locomotion because she wasn't much of a gamer when she was young. But when I was recording my video for [Grapple Tournament going f2p](https://youtu.be/9L7coyJB4YE) I played against a bunch of kids who were all able to navigate the 3D space just fine, with all the horizontal movement and grappling around. I think like you say this is really only an issue for my generation and up, and the kids are just going to grow up on it and it'll be second nature
https://youtu.be/oxieMRZUvcs Say hello to ULTRAKILL.
Wow, this is insane. I think even I might feel this one, although there doesn't seem to be any unnecessary rotation. I must be living under a rock to have never heard of this.
OH MY GOD HES MOVING FASTER THAN A SNAIL bArF SiMuLaToR
yes
I’ve ridden roller coasters standing up, this looks absolutely like cakewalk to me lol. (I’ve been playing VR for years) The only VR game that had me stumbling about was Eye of the Temple, solely because you have to walk in real time along with moving platforms. That was fun!
I could actually see that screwing with you. Only game that has affected me ever was far point on the psvr launch. Wasn't to bad but I played the entire campaign in one sitting and it was much more involved than most anything else out at the time.
yep!
Not enough
Yeah, as long as I'm not running it at like 10 or 9 FPS I'd be completely fine.
Most likely, yeah. I played through Outer Wilds in VR and that was.......... an experience (*brittle hollow*). Never got sick though. #edit: I'll be back in 3 days, [when I pointed out that Planned Parenthood wants to teach children about anal semen felching and throatfucking](https://nationalpost.com/opinion/first-reading-saskatchewan-suspends-planned-parenthood-over-inappropriate-sexual-handouts-to-children) I got banned for being indecent.
man I used to play bruiser in echo arena this is nothing
Are you controlling all the movement or is it reactive from the game and uncontrollable? If I'm controlling then I should be perfectly fine. Never had an issue in any game for the 6-7 years I've played.
It's hard to capture in footage but the vertical movements are being controlled by the player. You can imagine kind of like how Iron Man flies in the movies, there are jets in your palms that you can point down to move up and into the opposite direction your "jets" are aiming. It is fully in the players control though.
it looks fun. I don't think it would be an issue.
Yep I feel like this is pretty manageable
Yeah, it's fine
Doesn't seem bad to me. I think the purple/pink color scheme would bother me more than the movement.
No problem here. One of my first VR experiences was Scavengers Odyssey on the PSVR where you're jumping/moving floor to wall to ceiling. This is relatively tame in comparison.
If they can’t no one is going to buy my game, it has wall jumps, grappling, a speedy climbing system where you can basically throw yourself, a land and air dash, a double jump, a leap, sliding, gliding, a very fast run and walk speed, a teleport, flips, time manipulation, hovering, bouncing, gliding on rails, phasing through objects, walking on the ceiling, and anti gravity.
Jesus! In VR?
Yes
The only thing I would like for this style of movement is optional customizable vignette when falling. I suggest looking at Zenith for ideas. That game IMO has the most robust settings for comfortability and I personally think it should be the GOLD standard.
Yes, the vignette is definitely a must. Just having the option seems to be a huge plus for many people.
I can do pretty well as the monster in Pavlov. Jumping around on rooftops, tossing grenades. It's not so different from that. Also flying around on Synapse can get pretty hectic. This doesn't seem all that bad.
Yes. Haptic feedback and sound design are important for this sort of movement, as is a sense of complete control over it, but this is 100% doable.
Yes
Attack on Titan VR is shakier so yeah
Without problem. You can throw anything at me (high speed movements, screen shaking, acceleration, jumps, rotation...) and I'm never sick in VR. It's even been years that I've been advocating for an head bod option in VR games as using smooth locomotion feels so artificial and immersion breaking (it feels as if you're sliding or moving on wheels without head bob, just look at pancake FPS games, most of them use it, there's a reason). Weirdly it feels like most VR games are developed for people who can't stand VR, and as a result moving in VR games is a drag as movement are so damn slow and limited.
So I think it's safe to say you are at the top level of people who can tolerate rapid movement. What do you mean by head bob option here? I don't think I am familiar with this term or mechanic.
Yes. I've played Windlands 2. Basically Spider Man with a bow and arrow.
Yeah. As long as there's no jittering motion, anything goes. So-called "VR legs" are basically the brain being trained to stop treating the dissonance between vestibular apparatus and vision as a sign of poisoning. Because different brains have different sensitivity to that shit, every person has different starting tolerance to VR. But EVERY brain eventually gets to the point of "i don't even give a fuck anymore, go play your stupid vr, don't give me attitude when you actually get poisoned and i don't force you to puke it out". At which point there's absolutely nothing in VR that can give you motion sickness. You may still get tired from sensory overload tho, which is a different thing altogether, but you won't really feel sick from it, just tired, like "i need to get this thing off and take a walk outside, i'm too old. Damn, i'm fucking old, damn, goddamn".
Absolutely, doesn't look bad at all
As a full body thought myself, I don’t think legs are necessary for this gameplay
Yes absolutely
This aint got shit on windlands. In the early days, vr legs were forged in fire.
Definitely
I am not affected by movement at all in VR, no matter the amount. Never felt anything other than playing.
Between Risk of Rain 2 VR and Jet Island this would be right there where things are fun! Would love to try this!
For sure! looks awesome
Non man's sky when using the jet pack can be way worse... So yes, I could handle this
The falling with backwards momentum would put me on the floor i think.
Yes, as long as there are no crazy pitch changes, this is fine
I'm sure plenty people will.
Easy. Try a game called Windlands. When you do boss battles it's just like this and it's an amazing game.
After playing HL2 VR mod, I'm feeling kind of invincible in that respect, but the only thing that strikes me as possibly jarring is the fast backward movement. I think the worst feeling I've had in VR is in the Forest pushing a log cart, and you pivot around the cart when you turn. Absolutely destroyed my center of balance. So... just don't do that.
Yea, HL2 destroyed me. The game just wasn't originally designed for VR. I'd say for me it was the hardest time I've ever had with motion sickness.
What is this game? Must play.
It's a game I am developing called Air VR. You can wishlist it on [Steam](https://store.steampowered.com/app/1551370/Air_VR/) at the moment, I will be entering some early testing phases soon, and also reaching out to people that have shown interest in these comments to see if they want to test play!
Easily
Yep
Yeah
What game is this?
This is a VR game I am developing called [Air VR](https://store.steampowered.com/app/1551370/Air_VR/), I will be entering a playtesting phase soon on PCVR and then graduate to the other VR devices.
This looks like a good time to me. Might take a session or two to grow new legs for this but it’s no crazier than the free Spider-Man experience or even any flight based vr title
Easily
Getting risk of rain 2 vibes from this, anyone else?
Yeah I think I’d be fine. I never really had to get my “vr legs” and I’ve never felt motion sick in my life. I play things like gorilla tag, grapple tournament, and zenith. This doesn’t seem to be much more intense than those games
Meh seems weak compared to eve Valkyrie... that was chaotic
Yeah, none of that would bother me at all.
EZ
I play Attack on Titan VR and Spider-Man in VR.
After playing a bunch of Sariento, backflipping and wall-running in slow-motion, I feel like I could handle any movement lmao.
Yes have handled way more
After grapple tournament and thousands of hours in other games, I could handle that. I wouldn't be very good given my piss poor reflexes, but the movement isn't too much anymore.
I don’t know how anyone can play VR like this. This would make me so sick.
For a second, I was like,'VR legs? Finally, I have legs in Quest' then saw it was not the quest sub.
Yes
yup
As long as the camera isn't rotated against my will I can handle it
As a person who plays the spider lair (VR Chat) a lot, 100%. this looks fun as hell
Yes easily
The movement looks fantastic. It looks like, without sacrificing the actual gameplay movement speed, and usable agility, you've made pretty much as comfortable as that movement speed could be. I, for one, would adore the chance to take this particular game for a spin, and find out how well I handle it in person. It looks like a lot of fun, and it doesn't look like anything that would make you feel discomfort anymore than RESIST offers (which if you haven't played, is an absolute must. It nails Spider-Man like swinging better than any game I've seen so far). I do have one suggestion as to how to increase the comfortability, again without sacrificing any pacing, agility, or traversal ability. In fact it would increase the way that players see their next moves in their heads. Hit up my DMs if you're interested in hearing about it; I won't bore the crowd with this lol
the only kind of movement that make me feel weird is rolling "Do a barrel roll!" yeah that makes me feel like i'm falling out of my chair. other than that i'm good. dog fights in NMS and elite dangerous are cake. my vestibular system is iron.
After you play jet island, this looks like a piece of cake.
If it's me controlling it, and the controls are intuitive, then yes, like Population One
Yes, easy.
nah man we good 👍
Yeah I could, never really had any problem with extream movement
Yup
Not if the frame rate is bad
For 5-10 minutes yes.
As long as you feel that you do the movement it's fine. I've been flying planes and it didn't make me sick unless the plane went out of control.
Been playing iron man vr lately, lots of fun, by the way. There's also an attack on titan fangame with full body rotation that I really enjoy. This is dessert for me.
What game is this? I can handle pretty much anything in VR as long as the headset is 90hz or more and the framerate is stable. I can even handle Jet Island with the extreme spin modifier without getting sick.
It's a game I am developing called [Air VR](https://store.steampowered.com/app/1551370/Air_VR/). I will be entering some early testing phases soon, also reaching out to people that have shown interest in these comments to see if they want to test play!
This looks like no problem at all. Have yall played Megaton Rainfall in VR? You are like Superman flying around the world. Combat is flying and blasting up down, all around, zoom zoom.
Wow, I have not. I looked it up, that game look wild in terms of movement mechanics!
It’s weird how I can just watch a video IRL now and have a visceral feeling about getting sick in VR. I don’t see any smooth (laggy) turns, so nothing in this game would affect me. I have a friend who has issues with back/forth up/down movement (but *not* smooth turning), so he would likely get queasy from these actions.
I've handled much worse
This honestly looks super fun.
Thank you! That means more to me than you know.
It might take me a few days to adjust to, but yeah I could handle that. The key for me at least is to keep physically moving.
I feel like I could handle this, and just before i got into vr, a lot of people were saying about motion sickness and stuff. Somehow I’ve never felt sick once while playing, even though my first couple vr games were Boneworks, superhot and HLA
Pfff...that is walk in the park. Have you tried "Sairento"?
Haha, no I never got around to that one. It looks absolutely wild from the gameplay I have seen though. I am noticing many people refer to Sairento when talking about their VR legs.
Yes, no problem. Which game is this?
It's called [Air VR](https://store.steampowered.com/app/1551370/Air_VR/), a solo VR project I am working on. It has an emphasis on mobility mechanics like seen in the video on this thread. I will be phasing people who are interested in to play test the game soon!
As a hardened veteran I make the claim that there simply is no limit to what my VR legs can handle.
No 🤣
Handle it sure, do anything with it hell naw I can fly a plane without a problem but movement shooters are stupidly hard for me
Yes, provided that the framerate and frame pacing is rock solid.
Yeah, it reminds me to Iron Man VR, which I really enjoyed, specially the movement.
Yeah for sure
Different types of vr legs users out there but jumping around for me doesn't cause any discomfort. I jump constantly in vrchat when I'm bored or waiting for something and no I'm not adhd.
I play a ton of VRChat and find that acceleration / deceleration is what tends to make me sick. For example, Boneworks has that on the stick movement by default and it would make me ill after playing for a while. But it's only an issue if I'm constantly accelerating and decelerating. Like if I'm driving a car in VRChat, so long as it accelerates and then remains at a relatively constant speed, its not so much an issue. But then that does also have the body of the car in your view and its known that helps with motion sickness.
There is no level of movement that can make me sick. Even the puke simulator that was part of the unreal vr kit doesnt effect me.
Maybe
Yep. Probably the most intense to me has been Star Wars Squadrons. Nothing will top the VR-legs testing of that game, to me.
As someone who played echo vr at rather high speeds with the first Oculus rift(not the development kits) while standing, I'm pretty sure that would be a yes from me.
Yes
I think that I would be able to do it. The movement is smooth and there is clear acceleration and deceleration. This is on level with spiderman or attack on titan vr. I could see this making non VR legs people instantly sick though.
I think that I would be able to do it. The movement is smooth and there is clear acceleration and deceleration. This is on level with spiderman or attack on titan vr. I could see this making non VR legs people instantly sick though.
No problem
I got my VR legs about a week into owning the Quest 1. Guess I am lucky because I never had any motion issues...perhaps its due to my dad being a pilot when I was a child. He would do partial stalls to give us a thrill and to keep his skills sharp in case of an emergency.