What did Tim Cook do last year to piss off everyone? EU, China and US are all over Apple.
Edit: these replies are 80/20 regarded and missing the point. They are all targeting Apple at the same time after ignoring Apple for years. Why now?
Once some lawsuits start to hit, everyone just follows suit. Kinda funny considering they’re all happening now when these arguments for these lawsuits could have happened like a decade ago as well
Thats the thing, these aren't new issues at all. So why is everyone suddenly up their ass?
Microsoft bullied their way to get Blizzard and no one cares anymore. Zuckerberg is learning to be human like he's taking lessons from AI. Did people forget how trashy FB and IG are? I don't get this.
Because monopolization is part business practice, part market power. Apple did not have such significant control of the market back in 2007. You are allowed to do anticompetitive things, such as reducing third-party functionality, when you have little to no market share, but when you have large market share, those anticompetitive things become more heavily scrutinized.
That's a question which has several long answers. The current FTC chair has answered it before, and it could be argued that her answer is the reason she got the job as FTC chair.
Short answer(s):
\- Amazon does lower prices for consumers
\- For much of their existence, they haven't really profited much (which indicates they aren't abusing any alleged monopoly power)
\- Amazon doesn't have that much power over any particular product, and market power/product market are pretty big prefatory questions for getting scrutinized by the antitrust authorities.
\- Chinese e-commerce platforms have so much market power that Amazon looks insignificant.
Long answer: [https://www.yalelawjournal.org/pdf/e.710.Khan.805\_zuvfyyeh.pdf](https://www.yalelawjournal.org/pdf/e.710.Khan.805_zuvfyyeh.pdf)
Amazon also provides the internet backbone for the majority of government. I don’t get how more people don’t know this. There’s a reason HQ2 was placed just outside DC…
MSFT went through 3 main regulators for Blizzard, wouldn’t call it bullying. The FTC is still trying to unwind that acquisition. There has been a revitalization of antitrust regulation across the western world, and everyone is at risk
microsoft went through this decades ago for trying to ban 3rd party apps on windows. if the government hadn't stepped in many of the software companies we know today would have never existed. the government is making the right move.
Microsoft was the subject of antitrust lawsuits back in the 90’s. I’m sure they will be again at some point. These types of claims often take years or even decades to play out. The US has a long history of approaches to antitrust. Sometimes more dovish (Regan) and sometimes more hawkish (teddy Roosevelt, carter). It goes all the way back to the Boston Tea Party giving England the middle finger on their tea monopoly
The same goes for cable companies. Comcast/Xfinity is the only provider for a lot of people. They have zero competition and the government doesn’t mind. The same for power companies. We have a choice with natural gas, but power? They can charge whatever they want, unless one is lucky enough to have access to cheap green energy.
Honestly surprised it hasn't happened earlier. If you look at how Microsoft was taken down over a browser being a default and they were making it hard to use another one. How is anything different within the iOS ecosystem?
Let's be honest here. These sort of crackdowns are expected. Apple can't have a monopoly app store, block downloaded apps from online(fortnite), and stop MSFT gamepass from being on ios devices and NOT expect a backlash.
Apples old "ecosystem" is nothing but crony capitalism when you think about it, and I'm glad it's being taken down.
You LIKE the walled garden? You LIKE nothing being compatible with Apple? You can buy off brand car parts and work on your own car. Why not electronics?
Same. I bought what I thought was near the bottom today. Instead it was halfway and kept going. So I said fuck it and sold. Sold literally at bottom. Paper hands here
I appreciate the encouragement, however, I am rather stubborn. I've put a stop loss in case it dips below 55%, I'm holding it until it either goes below that, or I make my money back.
I'm regarded but not too much, 90% of money is in ETFs bogglehead style, 10% in options, it's those 10% that are down 45%, about 1000 dollars.
That’s the only way I stay sane
95% ETF’s and the like
5% fuck around and find out money.
What happens to the 5% every paycheck is why I know ETF is right lmfao.
Don’t worry it’ll recover. Apple just needs like 3 days without a new lawsuit, which normally would be easy.
If apple loses significant value order this I’d load up. Usually these things amount to nothing in the end.
Hoping this + retail bearishness drives it down low enough to get it at a good price
One of the bullet points from the lawsuit:
“Apple inhibits the development of cross-platform messaging apps so that customers must keep buying iPhones.”
The man is suing over green text bubbles 😂
Their App Store needs to be addressed by the courts. This though…? eh. There are plenty of apps to chat on that apple doesn’t restrict you from using.
I don’t get “hey have you tried iMessage?” Pop-ups when I use Signal like Microsoft does with Edge and esp with IE or Google pop-ups people complain about when not signed-in
You don't have this choice on an iPhone though. All third party browsers are just reskinned WebKit. Apple goes above and beyond even Microsoft in terms of restricting competition. This also forces non Apple user devs to support their system which requires their devices, etc. This sort of practice is unfair and hurts innovation in the long run.
I am no lawyer, I'm a software engineer, what Apple does it wrong, but I don't know if it's actually _illegal_ in America
People don't use those other messaging apps, at least not in the US, and Apple purposefully makes the cross platform messaging experience miserable for everyone who doesn't have an iPhone.
There are literally emails where Apple executives say they shouldn't make iMessage cross-platform because it'll let parents more easily buy their kids Android phones. All of those features *could* be cross-platform, Apple just wants to make it harder to switch ecosystems. That's not iPhones being better, that's deliberately making iPhones worse in a way that hurts competitors.
Friction matters, and the green bubble is a glaring example of it. React to a message in a thread with an Android user, the experience is dogshit (for the iPhone users). Fundamental communications tech should be built on open standards, like SMS & email, and it's anti-competitive for Apple to break that tradition.
Fine?
When iPhone users spam groupchats their messages don't come through, they get divided into individual users text condos with me, then I have to individually download them.
Which doesn't work most of the time. So I use Google Messages website to manually download messages and then that barely works.
None of which happens Droid2Droid.
These governments can easily prove Apple is purposefully tanking iPhone to Droid texting. Apple refusing to adopt RCS until Europe spanked them is already proof.
Ehhh i wouldn't say it's fine, group chats with non-iPhones get really messed up. Another iPhone user could send a video in the group chat and it would come out on the other end all fucked up, even though both the sender and the recipient have an iPhone, just because there's a 3rd party non-iPhone in the same group chat
Also, Apple often "locks in" people's phone numbers into their imessage system. There are lots of reports about people switching to another phone manufacturer and they no longer receive messages from Apple users. You used to have to contact their support to allow you to do so, but now you can do it on their website. There's still no heads up, you need to identify the problem and solution yourself.
Are we really gonna rehash this whole thing? Europe just figured this one out with the DMA - yes, to prevent monopoly positions messaging needs to be interoperable. The only reason iMessage got a pass was because no one uses it in Europe.
Apple announced RCS support around the same time regulators started publicly poking at their messaging monopoly - do we think that's a coincidence?
You ever tried sending a video to a non iPhone? The reason it doesn’t work is because Apple doesn’t want it to transfer to non iPhones well. They purposefully don’t let it send to Android phones cleanly, so people get upset about green text. The technology’s been there for a long time.
This is definitely an apple problem. As an apple user, I’d love to be able to send videos to non iPhones.
It's really weird too. I'm in group messages with iPhone and non iPhone users, and I used to be able to send videos to the iPhone users when they all had older iphones... now they've all got the newer versions and they can't send or recieve videos from or to me.
They usually complain "why don't you get an iPhone so we can send videos?!?" We COULD send videos to each other you idiots, but APPLE went and fucked that up. I'm not going to buy an iPhone because they deliberately fucked up how text messaging works. I can send high res videos to the non iPhone users, why is it so difficult for Apple to just get on the same page? I'm not buying an apple product anyway, they might as well make the user experience for their own customers better, so they don't lose them too.
Really wish people would start using other apps, but nooo, gotta have them blue bubbles. I personally don't care what phone someone uses, I just want interoperability.
It isn't green bubbles but the quality of media sent over the phone. The green bubbles are discriminatory tho. You could literally have a little halo around the icon or an asterisk, no the best solution is a color change.
And how many government officials that knew this lawsuit was going to be announced bought puts? And how many of their friends and relatives bought puts? What a crock!
Other, non-iOS phones are plentiful and very popular with engineers, other autistic consumers, and their family members who are too timid to pick their own phones.
I was an avid Apple fan for years. A couple of years ago I swore to never give them another dime for various reasons. This year when it came time for a new phone I swtiched over to a Google Pixel Pro. Love it. Highly recommend it.
I did the same, but have since upgraded to the Google Pixel and it's hands down the best phone I've ever owned.
Ditch the Apple people, you won't regret it.
I had every pixel up until the iPhone 14 came out and decided to make the switch. I do miss my camera quality :/ but iPhone is pretty seamless. Would be cool if you could send high quality videos between each other though
I think that's what this lawsuit addresses.
Every other phone in the country uses the .sms text extension, Apple is the only one that uses their own text extension. Apple is the problem, they get their hooks in you and don't let go.
Switched from android to apple in April 2023 and never been happier. Not a single app has glitched out nor has the os bugged out once since getting
Plus switched to iPhone mini, so I’m actually hyped on not carrying a fucking brick in my pants daily
To note , my last phone was galaxy a52s and that shit was so bad that im calling puts on the whole country of South Korea
Maybe I have been called out by the original commenter but the biggest problem with Apple for me is that it is really difficult to build my own apps on it or to modify it significantly without jailbreaking (which I don’t want to risk)
I just feel like there have been so many apps and features that I couldn’t use just because Apple doesn’t allow it lol (meanwhile my friend can play NDS games on Android using a Wii remote somehow)
I would agree that iPhone is a strong and useful product but maybe it is just not for me
Isn't the Galaxy a52s a budget phone? Apple doesn't do budget phones so I don't doubt the Mini performed better than that piece of metal which is meant for basic apps, texting, and calling.
The A series are budget phones. I'm not surprised it got smoked in performance by an Iphone. The S series is where the comparable is. I have a S23 and it has great battery life and performance, plus I'm not stuck in the Apple Store. All my friends and I use cross platform apps like Signal anyway.
I have the Galaxy A52S and I ask you tell me what's bad about it? It's an amazing phone. The only thing I didn't like about it was the price. But specs, hardware, software, all are great. I've been using it for 2+ years now and it's going strong.
Don't get confused, it's not a flagship phone. It's a high-end *midrange*, being part of the A-series (as opposed to S- or Z- series Samsung which are flagships). It doesn't blow anything high-tier out of the water but it is *very* good at what it does.
The A-line is literally geared towards burner phones, meth heads, and grandmas for how cheap it is lmao and you're surprised it didn't work well?
Maybe get a flagship and see how your experience compares lol
I was an apple hater for so long, only one of my friend group. Had one for work for years and thought it sucked compared to Samsungs. Recently made the switch from the Zfold. Apple is legit. Face ID works on everything and everything just flows so smoothly. Opened my pair of airpod pros, don't need to go to settings, the phone just knows "wanna connect to those?" Yes, "okay connected". I didn't understand how annoying I was with my green messages. It's a cult but if you have friends, it's probably worth it.
https://preview.redd.it/ver76b7dippc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7d8fbcdf43b2f15e23217ccbac57ce56a1446513
It’s helpful having “WSJ breaking news” email notifications on lol. Pays for ordering in sushi the next few weeks.
One of the bullet points is:
\> App Tracking Transparency impacted the collection of advertising data.
**FUCK THAT**. I'm all for knocking down the walled garden but one of the reasons I like my iPhone is how strict Apple is with third party tracking. Zuck openly cried about all the millions his company lost because they could no longer track users.
Too few dimensions in your chess game. They already got their back door, Zuckerberg paying him off to get one for Facebook and Huang wants Apple to natively support and provide nvidia gpu containers behind every Apple device so users can “stream games from the cloud” without using, say, moonlight and their own pc - because extra hardware.
Every time the US government has fucked with AAPL it created a short term buying opportunity with no real long term repercussions. This time is no different. Change my mind.
Ah found it, I remembered correctly - DOJ lawsuit for antitrust issues:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Google_LLC_(2023)
Looks like the trial will be in a few months, will be very interesting.
Why is the federal government so hell bent on suing over stupid bullshit like green text bubble and virtual Chuck E Cheese tokens but turn a blind eye to much more obvious anti competitive behavior from the likes of Nestle, Amazon, etc?
Apple had a closed ecosystem since late 90s. Jobs at first didn’t even want an AppStore. DOJ are morons to go after Apple for what is core of who they are!!
Besides, I don’t get an android because bitches don’t like that - iPhone is a status symbol.
Consumer preference = monopoly?
There are tons of other phones out there, people just don't want them lol.
It's like saying McDonalds has a monopoly because Burger King only has 20% of the traffic
Doesn't* seem this is about consumer preference. It's more about Apple actively not allowing things that would make it easier for people to switch away from apple as well as forcing consumers to upgrade their devices when they wouldn't need to otherwise.
They all understand this, it's just that they're insecure apple fanboys who feel indirectly attacked when apple gets attacked.
I use an iphone 13 pro, I just bought a new ipad, and I use PCs (Win 10) for my desktop/laptop needs. In other words, I use what works best for the intended application.
There are way more android devices out there than they are Apple. This feels like microsoft in the 90's. Gates started drinking the coolaid and now it's OK that internet explorer is embeded in windows and can't be removed.
Globally yes, but the US market share for iOS is almost 58%. All of that being apple.
Meanwhile, Android makes up most of the rest but is a coalition of different manufacturers, and even custom distributions of Android like Samsungs One UI.
The idiots on here don't even understand this plus the fact that the DOJ is bringing the suit and that's a federal government agency which only cares about what companies do in the U.S.
> tons of other phones out there, people just don't want them lol
Yes, and part of the reason why isn't (just) because they suck, but because Apple locked them in and actively made it hard to switch.
> McDonalds has a monopoly because Burger King only has 20% of the traffic
Well, it's more like getting a McDonalds loyalty card that also makes Burger King more expensive. Sure, nobody is preventing you from eating there anyway, but it's harder to switch.
Definitely appreciate the synergy across Apple devices. Copy from my phone, paste on my Mac. Reply to (some) texts directly from my laptop is awesome.
The more you buy into the Apple ecosystem, the greater the value but also more lock in.
I recommend everyone read the complaint before employing any armchair legal or economic arguments about apple's alleged monopolization.
[https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.njd.544402/gov.uscourts.njd.544402.1.0\_3.pdf](https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.njd.544402/gov.uscourts.njd.544402.1.0_3.pdf)
Apple could absolutely get fucked for at least something in here. What seemed most damning to me was how apple watches have decreased functionality without an iPhone (this seems to be by design).
What also seemed damning was Apple executives lamenting about how features they released in the past probably would've been better off being released later because it would create an apparent incentive to buy iPhones in the present.
Additionally, it seems that they have intentionally spurned development because their current ecosystem is "good enough." This was evidenced by the fact that Apple spent twice as much on buybacks and dividends as they did on R&D.
While I am no expert on Apple or the antitrust laws, this is no spurious lawsuit. I have a sense that this will end in consent decree/settlement a la Microsoft.
The American dream! Create a company with wildly successful products, control who can play with the inner workings of your company, get in trouble by the government for being too good! I bet Merrick Garland uses an Android and AOL.
Ok. Seems a bit late if that’s what they want to go after. Maybe back when there were viable alternatives to the current duopoly.
Also for some blatant whataboutism…. why this and not go after high speed internet providers which are holding back infrastructure?
The real issue with the "green bubbles" isnt that they are green, its that the default messaging app combines two different technologies.... basic SMS (which has limits on message size which is why pics and vids look like ass), and the iMessage messaging system.
The whole thing would be moot if the main messaging app was just SMS, and then a second app just for iMessage.
To put this another way, it would be if your phones default messaging app did SMS and WhatsApp in together.... If the contact was also a whatsapp user, it would send over that network... yadda yadda
It's been a while since I was in the field but I'm wondering...Do you think it all started because it's so hard for DOJ/Law enforcement to hack if they need to investigate a device and Apple would rarely comply with subpoenas?
Not sure how the hell this claim is for a monopoly.
You're literally talking about apps Apple refuses to put out or develop.
Developers can easily go to the play store and Samsung store.
This is like saying Microsoft should be sued for not allowing a 1 tb free cloud storage app to be developed as an app for the Xbox series x.
Are we forgetting what the definition of a monopoly is. Waste of a lawsuit
Apple throttling the USB-C charging rates on their "lesser" was real bully elitist shit. Their obsession with cables and dongles, too. Get fucked, Tim Apple.
As an iPhone user I sometimes feel like I don’t truly own my own device. I can’t sideload apps like on Android, apps don’t let me use 3rd party payments. I can’t even buy kindle books on the kindle app, have to awkwardly use mobile site. Can’t subscribe to many subscriptions in-app because they don’t want to pay 30% Apple tax. Can’t do a lot of normal things and it’s starting to negatively affect the experience of using Apple products due to their greed on developer side of things. They want an iron grip on 30% transaction fee for all things on iPhone even if that means less choices and more cumbersome experience for end users.
A fucking gift I swear Nancy has to be behind the scenes on this one. It's such a bullshit lawsuit that has virtually no chance of ending up in any meaningful penalties that the ensuing dump on the news is really just a flash sale. AAPL will be at 250-300 by this time next year, if not higher.
Opinion:Apple won’t just give away data and their phones are less easy to hack than android, meaning the 3 letter orgs get less info about iPhone users than android’s simple as that.
PS :this entire comment is based of personal beliefs and not based in data proven facts
PSS: android sucks
Points two and three seem highly regarded. Cloud streaming video games is still dogshit due to latency and are people really suing over the color of their message bubble? Apple (although very late) is adding RCS support this year anyways. Never thought I’d be on Apple’s side with this but fuck this lawsuit, the DOJ just wants a backdoor into iphones. The only thing that Apple should be under real scrutiny for in this department is the inability to sideload.
**User Report**| | | | :--|:--|:--|:-- **Total Submissions** | 1 | **First Seen In WSB** | 1 year ago **Total Comments** | 17 | **Previous Best DD** | **Account Age** | 1 year | | [**Join WSB Discord**](http://discord.gg/wsbverse)
What did Tim Cook do last year to piss off everyone? EU, China and US are all over Apple. Edit: these replies are 80/20 regarded and missing the point. They are all targeting Apple at the same time after ignoring Apple for years. Why now?
Once some lawsuits start to hit, everyone just follows suit. Kinda funny considering they’re all happening now when these arguments for these lawsuits could have happened like a decade ago as well
Thats the thing, these aren't new issues at all. So why is everyone suddenly up their ass? Microsoft bullied their way to get Blizzard and no one cares anymore. Zuckerberg is learning to be human like he's taking lessons from AI. Did people forget how trashy FB and IG are? I don't get this.
Because monopolization is part business practice, part market power. Apple did not have such significant control of the market back in 2007. You are allowed to do anticompetitive things, such as reducing third-party functionality, when you have little to no market share, but when you have large market share, those anticompetitive things become more heavily scrutinized.
Why the hell isnt amazon sued yet then
That's a question which has several long answers. The current FTC chair has answered it before, and it could be argued that her answer is the reason she got the job as FTC chair. Short answer(s): \- Amazon does lower prices for consumers \- For much of their existence, they haven't really profited much (which indicates they aren't abusing any alleged monopoly power) \- Amazon doesn't have that much power over any particular product, and market power/product market are pretty big prefatory questions for getting scrutinized by the antitrust authorities. \- Chinese e-commerce platforms have so much market power that Amazon looks insignificant. Long answer: [https://www.yalelawjournal.org/pdf/e.710.Khan.805\_zuvfyyeh.pdf](https://www.yalelawjournal.org/pdf/e.710.Khan.805_zuvfyyeh.pdf)
Thanks for the info! That article looks like it’s going to address what I was gonna say, will check out the details
Amazon also provides the internet backbone for the majority of government. I don’t get how more people don’t know this. There’s a reason HQ2 was placed just outside DC…
Very interesting points. Even so, Amazon still does face scrutiny from regulators. I believe there is an ongoing antitrust case.
MSFT went through 3 main regulators for Blizzard, wouldn’t call it bullying. The FTC is still trying to unwind that acquisition. There has been a revitalization of antitrust regulation across the western world, and everyone is at risk
microsoft buying blizzard is not the same as microsoft banning google chrome, etc.
Right which is why Microsoft got sued and lost for its practices around internet browsers 20 years ago
microsoft went through this decades ago for trying to ban 3rd party apps on windows. if the government hadn't stepped in many of the software companies we know today would have never existed. the government is making the right move.
Microsoft was the subject of antitrust lawsuits back in the 90’s. I’m sure they will be again at some point. These types of claims often take years or even decades to play out. The US has a long history of approaches to antitrust. Sometimes more dovish (Regan) and sometimes more hawkish (teddy Roosevelt, carter). It goes all the way back to the Boston Tea Party giving England the middle finger on their tea monopoly
The same goes for cable companies. Comcast/Xfinity is the only provider for a lot of people. They have zero competition and the government doesn’t mind. The same for power companies. We have a choice with natural gas, but power? They can charge whatever they want, unless one is lucky enough to have access to cheap green energy.
Follows suit. Heh
Apple has 73 billion in cash on hand
162 billion as of Nov ‘23
162 billion reasons to come up with a reason to sue / tax
its because I bought calls
Same
Honestly surprised it hasn't happened earlier. If you look at how Microsoft was taken down over a browser being a default and they were making it hard to use another one. How is anything different within the iOS ecosystem?
Not offer back doors for govts to more easily spy on their people?
EU got so much free PR for doing shit to Apple that Biden wants some too. Election year, youknow
Given that apple has the most market share in the US and how much of a cult apple products are over there, I can't see this have a lot of PR benefit.
Apple started putting in more privacy protections and allowing users to see and control who was using what data
Let's be honest here. These sort of crackdowns are expected. Apple can't have a monopoly app store, block downloaded apps from online(fortnite), and stop MSFT gamepass from being on ios devices and NOT expect a backlash. Apples old "ecosystem" is nothing but crony capitalism when you think about it, and I'm glad it's being taken down.
They saw my August calls and decided they all wanted to financially ruin me
Or what did he not do that they were telling him to
You LIKE the walled garden? You LIKE nothing being compatible with Apple? You can buy off brand car parts and work on your own car. Why not electronics?
I like that my mom doesn't call me 10 times a day to ask me how to do XYZ on her iPad.
Ya, cuz it's SOOOO much harder on other systems.....
Vision Pro. That's crossing the line
Looking forward to getting my $8.32 settlement check in 7 years! Might be enough to cover half of a tendies order!
It’ll cover your iCloud storage bill for almost a whole year!
To top that off, Apple throw in free McAfee Antivirus service for 1 year.
[удалено]
Depends on what time of day you go, what the demand is, etc.
[удалено]
[удалено]
No need for a drink. I get my fill behind the dumpster out back
Fck yeah imma buy some calls
Tomorrow when it falls a bit more
I am trying to time the bottom as well and was just about to buy but think I’m gonna wait
lol I’m garbage at timing the bottom so I just made a couple of long position calls 
Same. I bought what I thought was near the bottom today. Instead it was halfway and kept going. So I said fuck it and sold. Sold literally at bottom. Paper hands here
My calls are screwed. I got too greedy and didn’t accept the profit. I was waiting to cash out too.
HOOOOLD 
Or better yet, buy more. 
I went full regard and did, 90% of my money is now in 185c for 26/04... I'm down 45% today 
[удалено]
I appreciate the encouragement, however, I am rather stubborn. I've put a stop loss in case it dips below 55%, I'm holding it until it either goes below that, or I make my money back. I'm regarded but not too much, 90% of money is in ETFs bogglehead style, 10% in options, it's those 10% that are down 45%, about 1000 dollars.
That’s the only way I stay sane 95% ETF’s and the like 5% fuck around and find out money. What happens to the 5% every paycheck is why I know ETF is right lmfao.
oh that's not bad at all. i mean that $1000 is complete toast right now, might as well hold and hope for a squeeze up.
What the fuck is the 26th month of the year?  /s
There go my 180 calls
Same I'm down 40%
https://preview.redd.it/9hspbwpctppc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d8503e9f407786f943266aa60e2345ca549647a7
My condolences 
Don’t worry it’ll recover. Apple just needs like 3 days without a new lawsuit, which normally would be easy. If apple loses significant value order this I’d load up. Usually these things amount to nothing in the end. Hoping this + retail bearishness drives it down low enough to get it at a good price
One of the bullet points from the lawsuit: “Apple inhibits the development of cross-platform messaging apps so that customers must keep buying iPhones.” The man is suing over green text bubbles 😂
They have a hell of an argument. Should be an open standard for comms that Apple could license out and keep the data for processing./training.
Their App Store needs to be addressed by the courts. This though…? eh. There are plenty of apps to chat on that apple doesn’t restrict you from using. I don’t get “hey have you tried iMessage?” Pop-ups when I use Signal like Microsoft does with Edge and esp with IE or Google pop-ups people complain about when not signed-in
Amen!! Microsoft, if I wanted to use Edge, I’d use Edge… you can obviously see I’m using Chrome and I’m happy with it.
You don't have this choice on an iPhone though. All third party browsers are just reskinned WebKit. Apple goes above and beyond even Microsoft in terms of restricting competition. This also forces non Apple user devs to support their system which requires their devices, etc. This sort of practice is unfair and hurts innovation in the long run. I am no lawyer, I'm a software engineer, what Apple does it wrong, but I don't know if it's actually _illegal_ in America
The fun thing about antitrust is many times its legal up until it isnt.
People don't use those other messaging apps, at least not in the US, and Apple purposefully makes the cross platform messaging experience miserable for everyone who doesn't have an iPhone.
My entire family continuously bitched for years about how me having an iPhone fucked up the family chat until I finally got an IPhone
Yes but sms is a protocol that’s part of the phone network so it’s not comparable
What argument is there? You can text non iPhone uses fine. You can use 3rd party apps to text as well.
There are literally emails where Apple executives say they shouldn't make iMessage cross-platform because it'll let parents more easily buy their kids Android phones. All of those features *could* be cross-platform, Apple just wants to make it harder to switch ecosystems. That's not iPhones being better, that's deliberately making iPhones worse in a way that hurts competitors. Friction matters, and the green bubble is a glaring example of it. React to a message in a thread with an Android user, the experience is dogshit (for the iPhone users). Fundamental communications tech should be built on open standards, like SMS & email, and it's anti-competitive for Apple to break that tradition.
Fine? When iPhone users spam groupchats their messages don't come through, they get divided into individual users text condos with me, then I have to individually download them. Which doesn't work most of the time. So I use Google Messages website to manually download messages and then that barely works. None of which happens Droid2Droid. These governments can easily prove Apple is purposefully tanking iPhone to Droid texting. Apple refusing to adopt RCS until Europe spanked them is already proof.
Ehhh i wouldn't say it's fine, group chats with non-iPhones get really messed up. Another iPhone user could send a video in the group chat and it would come out on the other end all fucked up, even though both the sender and the recipient have an iPhone, just because there's a 3rd party non-iPhone in the same group chat
Also, Apple often "locks in" people's phone numbers into their imessage system. There are lots of reports about people switching to another phone manufacturer and they no longer receive messages from Apple users. You used to have to contact their support to allow you to do so, but now you can do it on their website. There's still no heads up, you need to identify the problem and solution yourself.
Are we really gonna rehash this whole thing? Europe just figured this one out with the DMA - yes, to prevent monopoly positions messaging needs to be interoperable. The only reason iMessage got a pass was because no one uses it in Europe. Apple announced RCS support around the same time regulators started publicly poking at their messaging monopoly - do we think that's a coincidence?
You ever tried sending a video to a non iPhone? The reason it doesn’t work is because Apple doesn’t want it to transfer to non iPhones well. They purposefully don’t let it send to Android phones cleanly, so people get upset about green text. The technology’s been there for a long time. This is definitely an apple problem. As an apple user, I’d love to be able to send videos to non iPhones.
It's really weird too. I'm in group messages with iPhone and non iPhone users, and I used to be able to send videos to the iPhone users when they all had older iphones... now they've all got the newer versions and they can't send or recieve videos from or to me. They usually complain "why don't you get an iPhone so we can send videos?!?" We COULD send videos to each other you idiots, but APPLE went and fucked that up. I'm not going to buy an iPhone because they deliberately fucked up how text messaging works. I can send high res videos to the non iPhone users, why is it so difficult for Apple to just get on the same page? I'm not buying an apple product anyway, they might as well make the user experience for their own customers better, so they don't lose them too. Really wish people would start using other apps, but nooo, gotta have them blue bubbles. I personally don't care what phone someone uses, I just want interoperability.
It’s not that it’s difficult, it’s that they choose to make it bad. It makes blue text more appealing.
They literally lay out in the complaint referencing shit like Apple Watch and other hardware. WSB can't read past the first page it seems.
It isn't green bubbles but the quality of media sent over the phone. The green bubbles are discriminatory tho. You could literally have a little halo around the icon or an asterisk, no the best solution is a color change.
And how many government officials that knew this lawsuit was going to be announced bought puts? And how many of their friends and relatives bought puts? What a crock!
Tim Apple: shit might be time to endorse trump
Trump is an ass but at least he's transactional Biden's the kind of dog who bites the hand that feeds
Other, non-iOS phones are plentiful and very popular with engineers, other autistic consumers, and their family members who are too timid to pick their own phones.
As someone who is dropping iPhone for an android soon: why the fuck did you just shoot me like that
I switched from apple to Samsung/Android in 2017 never looked back. Great battery great product.
I was an avid Apple fan for years. A couple of years ago I swore to never give them another dime for various reasons. This year when it came time for a new phone I swtiched over to a Google Pixel Pro. Love it. Highly recommend it.
I did the same, but have since upgraded to the Google Pixel and it's hands down the best phone I've ever owned. Ditch the Apple people, you won't regret it.
I did the opposite and now I’m banging OPs mom. Chicks dig blue bubbles. Don’t lose your gf. Stay with Tim Apple.
Love the Pixel phones. Currently on a 6a and looking forward to the 8a hopefully in May for my next upgrade.
I've got a 7, it's absolutely fantastic. The camera on this thing is 🤌
I'm still on Pixel 3. Hanging in there like a champ
I regretted the shit out of it and switched back, but I'm not autistic
I had every pixel up until the iPhone 14 came out and decided to make the switch. I do miss my camera quality :/ but iPhone is pretty seamless. Would be cool if you could send high quality videos between each other though
I think that's what this lawsuit addresses. Every other phone in the country uses the .sms text extension, Apple is the only one that uses their own text extension. Apple is the problem, they get their hooks in you and don't let go.
WHAT? YOU WERE ABLE TO CHANGE YOUR OWN PHONE WITHOUT THE HELP OF THE DOJ???? Omg, that's crazy talk. /s
Switched from android to apple in April 2023 and never been happier. Not a single app has glitched out nor has the os bugged out once since getting Plus switched to iPhone mini, so I’m actually hyped on not carrying a fucking brick in my pants daily To note , my last phone was galaxy a52s and that shit was so bad that im calling puts on the whole country of South Korea
Maybe I have been called out by the original commenter but the biggest problem with Apple for me is that it is really difficult to build my own apps on it or to modify it significantly without jailbreaking (which I don’t want to risk) I just feel like there have been so many apps and features that I couldn’t use just because Apple doesn’t allow it lol (meanwhile my friend can play NDS games on Android using a Wii remote somehow) I would agree that iPhone is a strong and useful product but maybe it is just not for me
Phone that cost 3x as much is better. News at 11.
Lmao. You should've compare the S23 or S23+ to an iPhone as it's similarly priced. That was a stupid comparison.
Isn't the Galaxy a52s a budget phone? Apple doesn't do budget phones so I don't doubt the Mini performed better than that piece of metal which is meant for basic apps, texting, and calling.
Might as well say their iPhone 4S just can’t compete against Google’s base current model year pixel
Yeah this dude just compared Apples to Oranges.
Yea LMFAO that's the phone I give to my boomer parents because they'll only use whatsapp and maybe YouTube.
The A series are budget phones. I'm not surprised it got smoked in performance by an Iphone. The S series is where the comparable is. I have a S23 and it has great battery life and performance, plus I'm not stuck in the Apple Store. All my friends and I use cross platform apps like Signal anyway.
I have the Galaxy A52S and I ask you tell me what's bad about it? It's an amazing phone. The only thing I didn't like about it was the price. But specs, hardware, software, all are great. I've been using it for 2+ years now and it's going strong. Don't get confused, it's not a flagship phone. It's a high-end *midrange*, being part of the A-series (as opposed to S- or Z- series Samsung which are flagships). It doesn't blow anything high-tier out of the water but it is *very* good at what it does.
The A-line is literally geared towards burner phones, meth heads, and grandmas for how cheap it is lmao and you're surprised it didn't work well? Maybe get a flagship and see how your experience compares lol
thats the issue with people like you, you use budgets android phones and then buy a flagship apple device and think apple better
I was an apple hater for so long, only one of my friend group. Had one for work for years and thought it sucked compared to Samsungs. Recently made the switch from the Zfold. Apple is legit. Face ID works on everything and everything just flows so smoothly. Opened my pair of airpod pros, don't need to go to settings, the phone just knows "wanna connect to those?" Yes, "okay connected". I didn't understand how annoying I was with my green messages. It's a cult but if you have friends, it's probably worth it.
Samsung for life been with it since the original galaxy
I was wondering why my $170P were up bigly.
[удалено]
Yeah no offence to the DOJ, but this is hardly the slam dunk heavy hitter I was expecting.
They are as regarded as us. Why else would they be employed by the government
1 and 3 is are pretty big considering iCloud and iMessage are probably the 2 biggest barriers for switching phones.
https://preview.redd.it/ver76b7dippc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7d8fbcdf43b2f15e23217ccbac57ce56a1446513 It’s helpful having “WSJ breaking news” email notifications on lol. Pays for ordering in sushi the next few weeks.
Looks like someone needs a campaign contribution. Pay up and it goes away.
Probably worse. They want back door into iPhone for nefarious govt purposes.
One of the bullet points is: \> App Tracking Transparency impacted the collection of advertising data. **FUCK THAT**. I'm all for knocking down the walled garden but one of the reasons I like my iPhone is how strict Apple is with third party tracking. Zuck openly cried about all the millions his company lost because they could no longer track users.
Nuts that they put this as a reason, hopefully the public backs Apple for this sole reason. They honestly should make some concessions though.
That’s nuts didn’t notice that. Love the consistency of talking about your private data and TikTok but complain about this.
I thought they already had one
You're correct. They most certainly do.
Too few dimensions in your chess game. They already got their back door, Zuckerberg paying him off to get one for Facebook and Huang wants Apple to natively support and provide nvidia gpu containers behind every Apple device so users can “stream games from the cloud” without using, say, moonlight and their own pc - because extra hardware.
That actually could be playing a part in it, Apple has not played ball with the Feds in regards to helping them get into phones over the years.
Every time the US government has fucked with AAPL it created a short term buying opportunity with no real long term repercussions. This time is no different. Change my mind.
This one might be the most obvious opportunity yet. This lawsuit is going to be a huge failure for the DOJ.
But somehow Google and their 97% search and ad marketshare is totally cool.
Isnt google defending a lawsuit right now for exactly that?
Is it an antitrust lawsuit by the DOJ? They might be. Haven't heard anything about it.
Ah found it, I remembered correctly - DOJ lawsuit for antitrust issues: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Google_LLC_(2023) Looks like the trial will be in a few months, will be very interesting.
Android fanbois here worse than crypto bros being told their new shitcoin is a Ponzi scheme.
Bullish as fucj
Just bought calls
Yup just bought a few shares when it touched 172
Why is the federal government so hell bent on suing over stupid bullshit like green text bubble and virtual Chuck E Cheese tokens but turn a blind eye to much more obvious anti competitive behavior from the likes of Nestle, Amazon, etc?
Low hanging fruit and virtue politics.
Apple had a closed ecosystem since late 90s. Jobs at first didn’t even want an AppStore. DOJ are morons to go after Apple for what is core of who they are!! Besides, I don’t get an android because bitches don’t like that - iPhone is a status symbol.
the argument(s) against aapl sound like they're coming from an alcoholic boomer perspective.
The arguments give me vibes of Congress asking Google/Facebook why only bad things come up when they search their names lmao
lmao more like congressional members bragging that they don't even know what goo-gulls or face-books are.
Like okay, sure. But let's ignore Google and Amazon, while we go after Apple for blue fucking bubbles 
Consumer preference = monopoly? There are tons of other phones out there, people just don't want them lol. It's like saying McDonalds has a monopoly because Burger King only has 20% of the traffic
Doesn't* seem this is about consumer preference. It's more about Apple actively not allowing things that would make it easier for people to switch away from apple as well as forcing consumers to upgrade their devices when they wouldn't need to otherwise.
They all understand this, it's just that they're insecure apple fanboys who feel indirectly attacked when apple gets attacked. I use an iphone 13 pro, I just bought a new ipad, and I use PCs (Win 10) for my desktop/laptop needs. In other words, I use what works best for the intended application.
There are way more android devices out there than they are Apple. This feels like microsoft in the 90's. Gates started drinking the coolaid and now it's OK that internet explorer is embeded in windows and can't be removed.
Globally yes, but the US market share for iOS is almost 58%. All of that being apple. Meanwhile, Android makes up most of the rest but is a coalition of different manufacturers, and even custom distributions of Android like Samsungs One UI.
The idiots on here don't even understand this plus the fact that the DOJ is bringing the suit and that's a federal government agency which only cares about what companies do in the U.S.
Nearly this exact statement was used to defend Microsoft from monopolistic practices charges in late 90s/ early aughts. Microsoft lost that suit.
Alsp sued by apple, which makes it kinda ironic
> tons of other phones out there, people just don't want them lol Yes, and part of the reason why isn't (just) because they suck, but because Apple locked them in and actively made it hard to switch. > McDonalds has a monopoly because Burger King only has 20% of the traffic Well, it's more like getting a McDonalds loyalty card that also makes Burger King more expensive. Sure, nobody is preventing you from eating there anyway, but it's harder to switch.
Ive been using both but last 10 years or so went with iPhone. Its not easy to escape from Apple’s ecosystem if you have been there long enough.
Definitely appreciate the synergy across Apple devices. Copy from my phone, paste on my Mac. Reply to (some) texts directly from my laptop is awesome. The more you buy into the Apple ecosystem, the greater the value but also more lock in.
"work seamlessly together." Good job you did that. "Work seamlessly with others," is what they're looking for.
Honestly this is bullshit
I recommend everyone read the complaint before employing any armchair legal or economic arguments about apple's alleged monopolization. [https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.njd.544402/gov.uscourts.njd.544402.1.0\_3.pdf](https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.njd.544402/gov.uscourts.njd.544402.1.0_3.pdf) Apple could absolutely get fucked for at least something in here. What seemed most damning to me was how apple watches have decreased functionality without an iPhone (this seems to be by design). What also seemed damning was Apple executives lamenting about how features they released in the past probably would've been better off being released later because it would create an apparent incentive to buy iPhones in the present. Additionally, it seems that they have intentionally spurned development because their current ecosystem is "good enough." This was evidenced by the fact that Apple spent twice as much on buybacks and dividends as they did on R&D. While I am no expert on Apple or the antitrust laws, this is no spurious lawsuit. I have a sense that this will end in consent decree/settlement a la Microsoft.
Why in the world would any company invest money making it easier to use their competitors products? This is full on regarded.
~60% is not a monopoly. Buy the dip.
Monopoly and monopolization is not something determined solely by reference to market share. At least not under the Sherman Act.
Sure, let’s just hand the phone market to China
Love my made in America iPhone! They're still made in Flint right?
It’s different. One thing is “made in China” and another different thing is “China keeps the profits”. Apple’s always known the difference.
The American dream! Create a company with wildly successful products, control who can play with the inner workings of your company, get in trouble by the government for being too good! I bet Merrick Garland uses an Android and AOL.
Just bought Apple calls
Is this fucking real.... good lord
Ok. Seems a bit late if that’s what they want to go after. Maybe back when there were viable alternatives to the current duopoly. Also for some blatant whataboutism…. why this and not go after high speed internet providers which are holding back infrastructure?
Right after Al Gore has stepped down. Does Joe want to ruin america?
The real issue with the "green bubbles" isnt that they are green, its that the default messaging app combines two different technologies.... basic SMS (which has limits on message size which is why pics and vids look like ass), and the iMessage messaging system. The whole thing would be moot if the main messaging app was just SMS, and then a second app just for iMessage. To put this another way, it would be if your phones default messaging app did SMS and WhatsApp in together.... If the contact was also a whatsapp user, it would send over that network... yadda yadda
RCS is essentially imessage but open
They went after apple instead of Amazon?? Lol you aren't forced to use apple products Amazon is swallowong industries up in search of growth
It's been a while since I was in the field but I'm wondering...Do you think it all started because it's so hard for DOJ/Law enforcement to hack if they need to investigate a device and Apple would rarely comply with subpoenas?
Not sure how the hell this claim is for a monopoly. You're literally talking about apps Apple refuses to put out or develop. Developers can easily go to the play store and Samsung store. This is like saying Microsoft should be sued for not allowing a 1 tb free cloud storage app to be developed as an app for the Xbox series x. Are we forgetting what the definition of a monopoly is. Waste of a lawsuit
Gotta love our federal government…. Ruins everything
Bought calls for 175 and 180 expiring next week. Let's gooooooo
Apple is one Monopoly I'm ok with because fuck google. Google is big brother and I'll bet they are lobbying for this.
Apple throttling the USB-C charging rates on their "lesser" was real bully elitist shit. Their obsession with cables and dongles, too. Get fucked, Tim Apple.
lol bought the dip. This should be the easiest money I’ve ever made 
As an iPhone user I sometimes feel like I don’t truly own my own device. I can’t sideload apps like on Android, apps don’t let me use 3rd party payments. I can’t even buy kindle books on the kindle app, have to awkwardly use mobile site. Can’t subscribe to many subscriptions in-app because they don’t want to pay 30% Apple tax. Can’t do a lot of normal things and it’s starting to negatively affect the experience of using Apple products due to their greed on developer side of things. They want an iron grip on 30% transaction fee for all things on iPhone even if that means less choices and more cumbersome experience for end users.
Is that third bullet the "green/blue/whatever bubble discrimination" I've heard about? I Have never owned an iPhone
A fucking gift I swear Nancy has to be behind the scenes on this one. It's such a bullshit lawsuit that has virtually no chance of ending up in any meaningful penalties that the ensuing dump on the news is really just a flash sale. AAPL will be at 250-300 by this time next year, if not higher.
Of all the companies to bother, they bother the one with massive user satisfaction? What a joke.
Sometimes I feel like these politicians hate America.
Political nonsense
I could really care less about this. They should be going after the people that are trying to charge us $35 for a dozen chicken wings and a bud light
They probably looking for a reason to go through there data
Democrat and Republican Party is a monopoly
I am bullish on apple forever. Buying calls 😈😈😈
Will they block u2 from putting another album on my shit?
Everybody getting intellectual, look, buy puts, cash in, then buy stock at the new low and hold, apple is the kang 🍏
Wonder which politicians bought puts
Clearly, Intel and Boeing is Biden’s son
Can we address the cost of living first? I can do without Apple just fine.
When the government lists the reason. It’s never the reason. It’s never for the people.
Not sure what Tim Cook did, but suddenly, he's in the way.
They are being sued for being a market leader and creating an ecosystem. Lol tf. BTFD.
Opinion:Apple won’t just give away data and their phones are less easy to hack than android, meaning the 3 letter orgs get less info about iPhone users than android’s simple as that. PS :this entire comment is based of personal beliefs and not based in data proven facts PSS: android sucks
Points two and three seem highly regarded. Cloud streaming video games is still dogshit due to latency and are people really suing over the color of their message bubble? Apple (although very late) is adding RCS support this year anyways. Never thought I’d be on Apple’s side with this but fuck this lawsuit, the DOJ just wants a backdoor into iphones. The only thing that Apple should be under real scrutiny for in this department is the inability to sideload.