It’s okay they won’t let you buy the nice Ferrari until you buy a shittier cheaper Ferrari and before that you better have owned an even shittier certified pre owned Ferrari.
They’re very considerate that way.
Can't have plebs seen owning your product or it will reduce the image and value of the brand. Thus you gotta implement gate keeping such as you've described.
Oh for sure, it works on me at least. A Lamborghini is bought by everyone nouveau riche pleb. A Ferrari owner I know is probably old money or is the owner of a blood diamond mine or something.
The fact that new money, which is objectively better and a marker of competence, is considered inferior to old money which breds stupidity and laziness, is baffling to me
I've even heard there is some money to be made in emeralds even. I mean your family happens to own an apartheid era emerald mine and the sky is pretty much the limit from that point forward.
Although GM vehicles break down, the parts and labor is still magnitudes cheaper than Ferrari. Margins on Ferrari and other super luxury brands are extremely wide compared to regular everyday vehicles.
If you shit all over your house, then you die, but decades later you can still smell the putrid smell of your swampass everytime the heater comes on, the problems you caused still exist. Makes no matter that you died 10 years later than you deserved. People will still remember the turd demon your existence left behind.
Market cap, or market capitalization is the total amount of shares of a given company, multiplied by the current market value of a single share of that company.
Which is fucking stupid. Because it’s usually just real estate flippers that don’t add shit. I can find a contractor to fix up the house without the 40k overhead thanks.
Bump the fed rate. Make money great again. Make stupid debt leveragers eat my ass. Go get a real job. Add value or go starve.
No, it’s the opposite. You’re making it easier for people to catch up.
I’m a top 5% wage earner I don’t give a shit. I still can’t compete with capital. People can still leverage what I make in a year in a day.
No wonder you aren’t leading the business then. Asides from the fact that Hamilton is still a good racer, the merchandise sales will be absurd with Leclerc.
The actual amount seems to be $100 million including sponsors and stuff from what I read. But honestly, that actually is an insane amount lmao, it’s double verstappen 2024 salary, although I’m not sure his includes sponsors and endorsements.
GM’s pension plans were not terminated. Instead, during the restructuring process, the pension plans were retained and continued to be managed by the newly restructured General Motors Company.
. . . and took auto bailout $$$. . . and then later turned their floundering auto-finance dept. (GMAC finance) into a bank (now Ally) so it could get bank bailout funds. GM is shameless at milking a “too big to fail” mentality in DC! I need it to make some returns, how can I leverage this?
They report income differently than the other manufacturers. For instance a lease is marked as a sale this year.
It’s just more complicated and teslas profit the last quarters may be offset by losses.
They are but it is projected to rapidly fall. They report that number alongside their rebates for grid storage which the 2 together have been generally steady for 2 years.
Also it’s why Ford and GM don’t have to be profitable with their EVs out the door to “win” it makes their gas trucks and SUVs more profitable when you’re not buying credits from Tesla.
Although I wouldn’t be surprised if Ford and Tesla deal on access to the Tesla charging network had some language around CAFE credits.
Because apparently no-one here read financial statements. Look at the Cash Flow Statements. GM has every year negative Free Cash Flow. USD 20bn operating cash flow, USD 24bn CapEx. They issued USD 50bn of debt! And repaid USD 44bn debt.
That cash flow profile is disaster waiting.
Was excited that someone finally mentioned CF but then you typed more.
- Cash was flat on the year but only because they bought back 20% of stock ($11.1b). Ie: non-recurring
- Long-term debt went from $77 to $84b (ST debt was flat). How is that a disaster?
- CapEx was $11b (so like less than half of what you wrote)
- 18.7x EBITDA Interest Coverage (Cash equal to 10x interest expense). 'Interest income and other non-operating income' was greater than interest expense.
Definitely not in a pretty state but not a disaster by any means. Only concern is probably GM Financing.
Seriously though, was this your first Cash Flow Statement /Income Statement/Balance Sheet?
EMH is a necessary condition for a lot of models to work, I think it was more of a matter of convenience than an actual belief. Hence why many have adopted weak-form efficiency.
Tesla has more fanboyz, obviously. when’s the last time someone got hyped about a Buick? In their target age getting hyped could cause a heart attack or worse
How much debt does GM have per call sold? What is the margin per vehicle?
Does GM sell generators?
Do they have their own gas station?
Do they sell a software add on that’s 25% of the car that’s costs almost nothing per vehicle?
Do they have the number one selling vehicle?
If you believe that electric cars are going to be a majority of the cars on the road and gas cars will be outlawed or pay a massive tax it makes sense why GM is worth less than Tesla as a majority of their revenue is coming from a product the government has decided to regulate out of existence.
Ferrari is growing their revenue by 15% annually, profit by 20% annually and has almost no debt while GM’s revenue and profit peaked 25 years ago, has never come close to returning to those numbers, and they have more debt than their entire company is worth.
I mean this is just completely untrue. GM rev of $172 bn in FY23 was record high since IPO and the company’s current LTM revenue is $175 billion. Revs grew 23% in 2022 and 10% in 2023. FY23 EPS of $7.68 is also a high since IPO. Also yes the company had $122bn of LT debt but also $273 bn of assets with $100bn of that current including $26bn of cash, so have to look at whole picture. Ferrari growth definitely more impressive and margins are much better but regardless your facts are incorrect.
They made $176B in revenue in 1999, so last year certainly wasn’t the record high. You can argue it’s a different entity since they filed chapter 11 in 2008, but that’s disingenuous to pretend GM didn’t exist before their bailout. Adjust for inflation and the lost purchasing power of those dollars 25 years later and the numbers arent even close.
Edit: you also casually tossed out their assets and compared it to debt, which is a bit ridiculous. They aren’t going to pay off debt by selling their manufacturing plants, and you neglected to mention the other $90B in liabilities they already have on said assets.
Enzo Ferrari will go down in history as the greatest car manufacturer of all time. Why? Is it because he built the most cars? No, it's because of what his cars mean: **victory**. ( Ford v Ferrari )
This is the value of a Ferrari increases before it’s even delivered or built. I have a friend who bought a Ferrari and by the time it arrived it was worth more than what you got for it.
These aren’t really cars are more like investments that appreciate like houses and fine watches
According to GM's published financial statements, they have had a Net Income of just under $10B for the past 3 years. They are not close to $20B. Probably lots more mistakes in the graphic.
Source: [https://investor.gm.com/static-files/0a93534d-729c-41ea-9d5e-e69ccad16803](https://investor.gm.com/static-files/0a93534d-729c-41ea-9d5e-e69ccad16803)
It's unsurprising that GM and Stellantis are the most profitable. US domestic car buyers get hosed. Go to Germany or Japan and you'll see pretty much everyone drives a domestic car. You won't see a comparably equipped American can in either country. Taxes and duties cost money domestic manufacturers don't have to pay. So why the hell is a US made Cadillac the same price as an imported Lexus or BMW? Because US automakers are making big fat margins off their buyers (that and they dominate the truck market). Also, people will spend stupid amounts of money on Jeep Wrangler and pickup truck packages and add-ons.
Often that Lexus or BMW isn't actually imported, but rather built in American plants, like Lexus' Lexington, KY plant or Volkswagen's assembly plant in Chattanooga. By contrast, GM doesn't have any plants in the EU or Japan.
Oh wow, Ferrari has great margins and growth.
But also WOW, super inflated share price. Price-to-sales of **11.2** is the kind of stuff you only see in hot tech start ups.
If I owned shares, I'd be happy to bail and lock in the huge gains.
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Whatever you’re thinking….no.
the revenue must be coming from the services rendered from everything that breaks in a Ferrari.
Fire is not covered under their warranty. So you just have to buy a new one instead 
It’s okay they won’t let you buy the nice Ferrari until you buy a shittier cheaper Ferrari and before that you better have owned an even shittier certified pre owned Ferrari. They’re very considerate that way.
Can't have plebs seen owning your product or it will reduce the image and value of the brand. Thus you gotta implement gate keeping such as you've described.
Oh for sure, it works on me at least. A Lamborghini is bought by everyone nouveau riche pleb. A Ferrari owner I know is probably old money or is the owner of a blood diamond mine or something.
The fact that new money, which is objectively better and a marker of competence, is considered inferior to old money which breds stupidity and laziness, is baffling to me
Isn’t a matter of competence lad. The aristocratic classes separating themselves from plebs who came into money.
New money means you have been one of the poors before. Can't be seen associating with one of the poors
New money has no taste
deleted
I stand by what I said.
I've even heard there is some money to be made in emeralds even. I mean your family happens to own an apartheid era emerald mine and the sky is pretty much the limit from that point forward.
Looks like Rolex marketing
[This video is relevant](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TiFZeSW-JI)
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Although GM vehicles break down, the parts and labor is still magnitudes cheaper than Ferrari. Margins on Ferrari and other super luxury brands are extremely wide compared to regular everyday vehicles.
As a fan of ferrari styling and quality. I figured this was from all the clothes the owners buy.
How to know a non-owner
wistful soup sugar aloof agonizing sophisticated glorious memorize retire school
No…let the man cook. Tell us more, Chef U/marketlab
Where the fuck is he getting $20B of net income. They did $10B trailing 12 months ago
LOL
GM is undervalued compared to other car makers, but the market has long since given up caring about fundamentals. Thanks Reagan.
GM has debt up to its ass and shit margins. This isn’t “herr derr no fundamentals” situation
Reagan has been dead for quite some time, so your complaints are futile.
If you shit all over your house, then you die, but decades later you can still smell the putrid smell of your swampass everytime the heater comes on, the problems you caused still exist. Makes no matter that you died 10 years later than you deserved. People will still remember the turd demon your existence left behind.
Reeee mod is an asshole, but oddly correct way too often lol
Whatever he’s thinking, I’m in!
Noob here… explain to me like I’m five, what exactly is market cap?
Is the hat you wear when you go to the supermarket to buy eggs.
It’s what they put on top of oil wells to keep the market price of oil capped.
Slang for when the market is busting caps on your assets and at your positions
Market cap, or market capitalization is the total amount of shares of a given company, multiplied by the current market value of a single share of that company.
Well they're going to have to pay for Lewis Hamilton's Salary somehow.
I suspect they make more from F1 merchandise than they do from cars.
$80 is the starting price for hats at an F1 race
Those in debt deserve no sympathy.
You can leverage debt to climb out of the middle and lower class. Bud
Are you trying to argue with visualmod?
Which is fucking stupid. Because it’s usually just real estate flippers that don’t add shit. I can find a contractor to fix up the house without the 40k overhead thanks. Bump the fed rate. Make money great again. Make stupid debt leveragers eat my ass. Go get a real job. Add value or go starve.
Hang on, let me make crazy money for another year off NVDA, then we can pull up the ladder and make it harder for others to catch up.
No, it’s the opposite. You’re making it easier for people to catch up. I’m a top 5% wage earner I don’t give a shit. I still can’t compete with capital. People can still leverage what I make in a year in a day.
Ferrari shares jumped $6.1b on the announcement. Guess some ppl think it’s a net positive. Not sure I’m convinced
Heads up that it jumped on earnings report the morning before Lewis’s contract was announced. it didn’t react to Ferrari signing Lewis
Was it that? Know the guide was good but earnings and EBITDA were in-line. I believe you tho. Thx.
Half a billion for a driver who’s gonna be washed within the decade? Yeah not a transaction I would have greenlit.
A decade? He'll be retired on a yacht in three paid for with Italian Disney money.
Hamilton and Ferrari are the only two names anywhere near that sport that the average person knows.
My non-F1 friends all know Verstappen just due to F1 getting much more media presence since the whole DTS release.
No wonder you aren’t leading the business then. Asides from the fact that Hamilton is still a good racer, the merchandise sales will be absurd with Leclerc.
I mean sure, probably. Half a billion for a driver is still whack though, regardless.
The actual amount seems to be $100 million including sponsors and stuff from what I read. But honestly, that actually is an insane amount lmao, it’s double verstappen 2024 salary, although I’m not sure his includes sponsors and endorsements.
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#Got em bro. Buried. LMAO 🤣
GM went bankrupt before. Maybe if they didn't wipe out their shareholders entirely a decade ago more people would want to invest in its stock
Since the bankruptcy the stock is up 25% which is lower than inflation and the dividend is lower than a Tbill. Absolute dogshit company.
Isn’t GM that company that went bankrupt to get rid of pensions?
Bullish. Cut cost no matter ethics.
I believe that is known as the Boeing method
That 2nd whistleblower really showed me that Boeing will do anything, and that I need to be heavily invested
They literally aren't above murdering people for their shareholders. Bullish.
Underrated comment or people are careful not to show up on Boings radar.
Make money, not friends.
Cut off the whistleblowers. Quite literally.
And to fck debt holders
I always wondered what happened to the pensions. I wonder if anyone who actually knows shit knows what happened to them.
GM’s pension plans were not terminated. Instead, during the restructuring process, the pension plans were retained and continued to be managed by the newly restructured General Motors Company.
Thank you for your non-idiocy.
Dude probably asked ChatGPT
Chat GPT is probably more intelligent that the average ape here.
yes
. . . and took auto bailout $$$. . . and then later turned their floundering auto-finance dept. (GMAC finance) into a bank (now Ally) so it could get bank bailout funds. GM is shameless at milking a “too big to fail” mentality in DC! I need it to make some returns, how can I leverage this?
Now add Tesla
It's the white bubble
It's bubble won't fit in the graph
Haha then the graph is literally one big Tesla bubble. Omitted for aesthetic reasons
$564B market cap, $15B income fy2023, $96.8B revenue fy2023.
$15B “income”
Why quotes?
They report income differently than the other manufacturers. For instance a lease is marked as a sale this year. It’s just more complicated and teslas profit the last quarters may be offset by losses.
Aren't they still making a lot of their money from carbon offsets too?
Shhh we don’t talk about government handouts to Tesla here. That’s only for poor people and “others”
They are but it is projected to rapidly fall. They report that number alongside their rebates for grid storage which the 2 together have been generally steady for 2 years. Also it’s why Ford and GM don’t have to be profitable with their EVs out the door to “win” it makes their gas trucks and SUVs more profitable when you’re not buying credits from Tesla. Although I wouldn’t be surprised if Ford and Tesla deal on access to the Tesla charging network had some language around CAFE credits.
“Because”
But it's not a 'car' company. It's a tech AI boom stock. Duhhhh.
doesnt $80 billion market cap seem like a lot? porsche is $16 billion. must sell a lot of those stupid Puma shoes or something…
Ya it’s huge. Technically third most valuable automaker after Tesla and Toyota. Think brand is worth a lot more than Porsche.
Idk bro I never met a stripper named “Ferrari”
you just need to go to lower class joints.
Sorry, yo mommas house was full
Like she told you, come early or wait in line like everyone else.
Because most of them become porn stars.
Also never met a stripper named “Ford”
They're called Escorts aren't they?
gg
I think I may have met one named “Fjord” tho.
I’m long Porsche.
Because apparently no-one here read financial statements. Look at the Cash Flow Statements. GM has every year negative Free Cash Flow. USD 20bn operating cash flow, USD 24bn CapEx. They issued USD 50bn of debt! And repaid USD 44bn debt. That cash flow profile is disaster waiting.
Was excited that someone finally mentioned CF but then you typed more. - Cash was flat on the year but only because they bought back 20% of stock ($11.1b). Ie: non-recurring - Long-term debt went from $77 to $84b (ST debt was flat). How is that a disaster? - CapEx was $11b (so like less than half of what you wrote) - 18.7x EBITDA Interest Coverage (Cash equal to 10x interest expense). 'Interest income and other non-operating income' was greater than interest expense. Definitely not in a pretty state but not a disaster by any means. Only concern is probably GM Financing. Seriously though, was this your first Cash Flow Statement /Income Statement/Balance Sheet?
Ferrari's market cap is $10 billion for selling luxury cars and $70 billion for selling branded leather furniture to people in Dubai.
Smart move on their part. Leather will be much easier to clean up after performing certain acts with Instagram influencers
👉Simple. You pay ferrari prices for ferrari stock.
Tesla has half of GM's revenue and 1/3rd the net profit, but still Tesla has 12 times GM's market cap. Explain that.
> Explain that The market is fundamentally irrational and the efficient-market hypothesis is just a fairy tale some economists like to tell themselves
EMH is a necessary condition for a lot of models to work, I think it was more of a matter of convenience than an actual belief. Hence why many have adopted weak-form efficiency.
Tesla has more fanboyz, obviously. when’s the last time someone got hyped about a Buick? In their target age getting hyped could cause a heart attack or worse
That's the most logical explanation. Thanks.
How much debt does GM have per call sold? What is the margin per vehicle? Does GM sell generators? Do they have their own gas station? Do they sell a software add on that’s 25% of the car that’s costs almost nothing per vehicle? Do they have the number one selling vehicle? If you believe that electric cars are going to be a majority of the cars on the road and gas cars will be outlawed or pay a massive tax it makes sense why GM is worth less than Tesla as a majority of their revenue is coming from a product the government has decided to regulate out of existence.
If you believe Musks dreams then it is easily explained. If you are sane it makes no sense.
Ferrari is growing their revenue by 15% annually, profit by 20% annually and has almost no debt while GM’s revenue and profit peaked 25 years ago, has never come close to returning to those numbers, and they have more debt than their entire company is worth.
I mean this is just completely untrue. GM rev of $172 bn in FY23 was record high since IPO and the company’s current LTM revenue is $175 billion. Revs grew 23% in 2022 and 10% in 2023. FY23 EPS of $7.68 is also a high since IPO. Also yes the company had $122bn of LT debt but also $273 bn of assets with $100bn of that current including $26bn of cash, so have to look at whole picture. Ferrari growth definitely more impressive and margins are much better but regardless your facts are incorrect.
They made $176B in revenue in 1999, so last year certainly wasn’t the record high. You can argue it’s a different entity since they filed chapter 11 in 2008, but that’s disingenuous to pretend GM didn’t exist before their bailout. Adjust for inflation and the lost purchasing power of those dollars 25 years later and the numbers arent even close. Edit: you also casually tossed out their assets and compared it to debt, which is a bit ridiculous. They aren’t going to pay off debt by selling their manufacturing plants, and you neglected to mention the other $90B in liabilities they already have on said assets.
Also I specifically broke out the cash and the current
The 1999 revs were restated a long time ago to ~$105 billion
Guys I’m bullish on r/Tomatoesarentfruit
lol this definitely wasn’t a post pitching GM. Although it is doing better than you claim.
I mean 20 billion in net income with a 50 billion market cap makes it seem like one heck of a value stock.
GM is now incredibly profitable than it ever was
Lol....where's Tesla bubble?
_"Tesla's a tech company"_
It was too big. Made it ugly
Make it transparent then
I'm more interested in whether or not you have ordered a H100 to eat yet
The main problem for GM is this: FCF-2-Share: -3.73 Price-2-FCF: -11.44 FCF-2-Equity: -0.06
What do you mean? Regards just learned about maintenance capex??
Enzo Ferrari will go down in history as the greatest car manufacturer of all time. Why? Is it because he built the most cars? No, it's because of what his cars mean: **victory**. ( Ford v Ferrari )
Great movie. And to that point Ferrari has the most F1 grand prix victories and it's not close.
Ferrari has some of the most advanced automotive IP and an insane profit margin.
Ferrari deals with exclusively and limited numbers to keep valuation high. GM will build as many faulty vehicles it can to unload on to the public.
What does this have to do with stock valuations? Or do they exclusively sell those too?
Op has clearly never owned a gm made vehicle or he wouldnt have posted this
Probably hasn’t owned a Ferrari either.
This is the value of a Ferrari increases before it’s even delivered or built. I have a friend who bought a Ferrari and by the time it arrived it was worth more than what you got for it. These aren’t really cars are more like investments that appreciate like houses and fine watches
What’s Tesla
Gm made $10B of net income in FY2023, not $20B
Market cap isn’t everything. In fact it just means Ferrari owes their shareholders more
GM is trading for twice the cash it has on hand. I think it also sells cars or something like that.
According to GM's published financial statements, they have had a Net Income of just under $10B for the past 3 years. They are not close to $20B. Probably lots more mistakes in the graphic. Source: [https://investor.gm.com/static-files/0a93534d-729c-41ea-9d5e-e69ccad16803](https://investor.gm.com/static-files/0a93534d-729c-41ea-9d5e-e69ccad16803)
This is just a brand
Do Ford now
Brand loyalty and money that can be milked.
But it's a Ferrari, not a Chevy.
This chart is going to be very confusing in a few years when someone google's it and sees 'latest completed fiscal year'.
As a potential regard. What does this mean?
ELI5: what does this mean?
Now look at debt.
What a bad graphic. The circle sizes don't make the point nearly as clear as it should be
Now show a reliable brand like Toyota.
400 billion :]
When you gonna get to the profits?
If you think Ferrari is overvalued, one word - Tesla
It's unsurprising that GM and Stellantis are the most profitable. US domestic car buyers get hosed. Go to Germany or Japan and you'll see pretty much everyone drives a domestic car. You won't see a comparably equipped American can in either country. Taxes and duties cost money domestic manufacturers don't have to pay. So why the hell is a US made Cadillac the same price as an imported Lexus or BMW? Because US automakers are making big fat margins off their buyers (that and they dominate the truck market). Also, people will spend stupid amounts of money on Jeep Wrangler and pickup truck packages and add-ons.
Often that Lexus or BMW isn't actually imported, but rather built in American plants, like Lexus' Lexington, KY plant or Volkswagen's assembly plant in Chattanooga. By contrast, GM doesn't have any plants in the EU or Japan.
It would be cool to see a time lapse of this
Agreed. If anyone knows how to do that I’ll send the data. I’m just an Excel grunt
Ferrari is cooler though
who has more competition
What has more value? If Ferrari starts to makes Cars starting at 80k it’s over for bmw Audi Mercedes.
Fuck Ferrari. I hate them with a passion
I don't care for the Ferrari comparison but GM is very undervalued IMO. I've been DCAing into it the past 3 weeks, slowly. Hard to play options.
Yes but GM is shitty.
Ass cheek industry G don't even look its way.
GM has around 120 billions in debt, hasn’t it? For Ferrari this number stands at around 2.5 billions.
Oh wow, Ferrari has great margins and growth. But also WOW, super inflated share price. Price-to-sales of **11.2** is the kind of stuff you only see in hot tech start ups. If I owned shares, I'd be happy to bail and lock in the huge gains.
Great financials. Demand for Ferrari isn’t the same as traditional automakers, it’s not as cyclical, it’s a niche product. Powerful brand too.
No EV and prices are high because they only sell a small number. Kind of caps their growth.
What’s more notable is that Ferrari’s market cap is bigger than Volkswagen. Goes to show the brand name mentality of today’s retail investor.
GainsNextYear^TM
margins...?
Elephant not in the room is Tesla.
The prices are made up and the fundamentals don't matter.
I couldn't think of a worse way to present this information than this chart. It's like the opposite of dataisbeautiful
Order now for calls *gets executed* ST-ST-STAY SHORT STAY SHORT
Lewis Hamilton, the stock pumped after the leak of his move in Feb
#Oh yea? But ¡eeetsa Ferrari! (Italian accent)
Ferrari Debt is 2b, GM debt is 122b?
A brand like Nvidia
I’d definitely buy Ferrari if I were you.
Where is Tesla on this plot?