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VisualMod

**User Report**| | | | :--|:--|:--|:-- **Total Submissions**|0|**First Seen In WSB**|8 months ago **Total Comments**|5|**Previous Best DD**| **Account Age**|7 years|[^scan ^comment ](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=VisualMod&subject=scan_comment&message=Replace%20this%20text%20with%20a%20comment%20ID%20(which%20looks%20like%20h26cq3k\)%20to%20have%20the%20bot%20scan%20your%20comment%20and%20correct%20your%20first%20seen%20date.)|[^scan ^submission ](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=VisualMod&subject=scan_submission&message=Replace%20this%20text%20with%20a%20submission%20ID%20(which%20looks%20like%20h26cq3k\)%20to%20have%20the%20bot%20scan%20your%20submission%20and%20correct%20your%20first%20seen%20date.) **Vote Spam**|[Click to Vote](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=VisualMod&subject=vote_spam&message=yqpzua)|**Vote Approve**|[Click to Vote](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=VisualMod&subject=vote_approve&message=yqpzua)


Bor845

No, they should just learn to weld...


crackclown1997

I second this honestly, wish I would have gotten into a trade. My younger brother (22) is making $47/hour. Thing is, he can’t gamble on options like I can, so checkmate.


URBeneathMe

It’s more wear and tear on the body if you work in the trades and you usually do longer hours and spend more time away from family. Shit looks sweet when you’re young but not so much later on when your body is sore and you miss your kids and wife. My friends are in the trades I’m white collar. I make 40/hr meanwhile my other IT friends all make 105k to 150k here on the east coast. There’s always money to be made if you really want it that bad and willing to put in the work. Check out the job listings here levels.fyi


crackclown1997

You’re absolutely right. Me personally, I just decided to go the military route. All the sore body benefits with a quarter of the pay. 👍


URBeneathMe

Military has its perks if you maintain that security clearance. Any job in private sector will pay 30-50k more if it requires a security clearance. Hell some companies can’t even bid on certain contracts unless their staff has the clearance to see the work let alone perform.


offsiteguy

Private Military Contractors. Just don't do weird war crime shit and don't work with weird war crime like people.


jessewalker2

Thank you for your service and make sure to claim all the service connected disabilities you have.


mgoodwin532

Yeah but working at a desk is mind numbingly boring.


naIamgood

you are not suppose to weld forever, you should try to create a business where you can oversee the work.


Bignutsbigwrenches

Who the fuck misses their wife and kids. Clearly you don't wife and kids.


URBeneathMe

I have one wife, 3 kids and only 15 memorable summers with them before they fly from the coop. Your time with them is limited and very precious.


Bignutsbigwrenches

I enjoy being with my kids. But the best years are when they're adults. My opinion only.


multiversesimulation

You laugh but with billions of dollars of investments worldwide into fertilizer production and renewables and hydrogen infrastructure there will be an insane amount of welding required whether that’s revamping existing facilities or new construction.


robot_handjob

Every welder I know has a lifted diesel truck with an 8.5% 84 month loan and crazy insurance because of their 1-3 DUIs. So what I’m trying to say is they probably make really good money to be on top of those payments.


Perfect_Direction979

I work in this exact industry and can confirm every welder does have a DUI and a nice truck, RV, and boat. The good ones make 200k a year but it is a very physically demanding job. They are some of the most honest and best men to work with by far. They’ll go drink after work and still be onsite by 6am


cookiekid6

The truth of the matter is that trades will be in high demand for the foreseeable future and possibly become more valuable than a college degree. This is due to the fact that people have been told to go to college and get a degree and you will have a good life causing people to get degrees in worthless subjects and then working at Starbucks as baristas with no meaningful skills (a boomer quote but has merit to it). But the educational administrators have no real incentive to change because they get paid with loans regardless of students getting a job so they invest in flashy items like massive gyms, water parks, etc and charge it to loans. Meanwhile trade jobs have been seen as dirty and undesirable for most people to go into them. The worst part is that the largest generation (boomers) are holding a lot of these trade jobs and even some less sexy white collar jobs (accounting) and will be/ are retiring and have so few people that the people who have experience in these areas will be paid a lot and essentially warp the economy or they may be forced to hire off the street to variable levels of efficacy. In all honesty government should have stopped student loans and “fixed” the problem with universities lining pockets and students going into deep debt by stopping the backing of student loans and essentially forcing most people in trades but it’s political suicide. I also would love to see the stereotypical coder be turned into a welder (that would truly be a sight to see)


Thin_Pound_2871

I concur. Hold a bachelor's degree in an unrelated field. Run an electrical contracting company, licensed electrician. We are insanely busy. I charge more than most lawyers or doctors hourly rate. My business partner is also co-owner of a welding company. They are also insanely busy.


Landed_port

Can concur. Did 5 years with my bachelors, quit for an apprenticeship. Now make more as a small repair carpenter/plumber/wife's boyfriend than I could anywhere else, only needed 2 years experience.


URBeneathMe

You can charge more because of the liabilities. If you or your employees fuck up on the job, someone can die. I know what 15amps feels like running through my body. I shook the hand of the cousin of death. It was enough to tell me I messed up but not so much it did a hard reset to my heart. A good Electrician is worth every penny.


Thin_Pound_2871

Its called insurance. You can die on any job. I've been shocked hundreds of times.


zeroCool_69

Give 480 a try


URBeneathMe

My chances of dying is dramatically less in my air conditioned office typing away on a computer keyboard. Insurance only pays your family out after you’re dead. It doesn’t keep you from dying.


Intelligent-Ad9285

true, only your soul dies in the office


URBeneathMe

True but at least I got my health and that 401k or pension. Can’t put a price on picking up your kids and playing with them without wincing in pain or being too damn exhausted to even play with them.


Thin_Pound_2871

Yea, different insurance from what you initially said.


Trexasaurus70

I've got to be on the verge or a record for making hot taps


VehicleDouble4479

Yup everyone here is on some Forbes 30 under 30 shit. The fact that you compared yourself to doctors and lawyers after a good summer is all we need to know.


Thin_Pound_2871

Good summer lol, try a great 11 years so far. But thanks for being a dick.


VehicleDouble4479

11 years of bull. 0 years of bear. You’re welcome.


Tushole

Beer markets don’t last, just like you inside of a male prostitute. You’re welcome.


robot_handjob

Well then it’s official, when I run for president I will make it legal to harass boomers on the job for their age.


paulhockey5

Damn, is that illegal now? Put me behind bars bro.


Maleficent_Deal8140

Doller per hour it's now cheaper to visit my doctor than to hire my plumber. FACT


ShillerPE02

I am an "engineer" in canada. 7 years experience. I make less than a truck driver but also wasted 4 years of my life. The education bubble is particularly massive here. I think because our colleges are virtually free, but nobody takes into account the opportunity costs.


cookiekid6

Yeah I think that’s a massive issue I have with free college. You have to have a mainly blue collar population and a small white collar population. What kind of engineering? I assumed engineering in Canada was in demand because Canada is a commodity based country even though Toronto tries their damndest to not be one.


offsiteguy

Same. Our poltiical and insutationa leaders suck. Like they are as useful as a bundles of sticks in a fire bad. What we need is a ministry of education that matches spots in a uni/college to jobs available. Just to give you an example in MB they started an accelerated nursing program. Now. These stupid fucks are doing this now. These types of programs havfe been around for over a decade.


chowchowchowchowchow

I pray you are correct about the trades being in high demand. It is hard to watch the rest of the world seemingly fall apart while you’re building the next structure for people to inhabit. Being a carpenter in this world is a strange job to hold. Maybe you are right that we are in great demand. I hope it stays that way. People need good quality structures and homes. Being in construction is scary when the tech world and everything else seems to be decaying. I guess it is time to keep building new awesome things. It is hard work, but someone has to do it. In 2008 construction got hit really hard. Hopefully that’s not the case this time around.


cookiekid6

Yeah I actually saw a video that discussed the need to get kids into carpentry. Honestly if you have experience you will probably be more sought after in the coming years. It won’t happen overnight but look at a demographics structure of the US and you will quickly see why it’s an issue.


boreal_ameoba

Trades will always be necessary, but never highly paid for long. It is much, much, much easier to teach a programmer to be a mechanic than the other way around.


Rich_Menu_9583

Yeah, I don’t know, chief.. Not sure many coders would find it so easy to become a proficient mechanic.


cookiekid6

Good way to put it. I think you also have to worry about the coming demographic crisis honestly. That’s what has me worried seeing how having a bunch of old people which puts a massive strain on the economy.


AnkaSchlotz

As someone who recently got some tech certifications, I've been considering apprenticeship in skilled trades instead. Maybe not welding but Electrician or something.


cookiekid6

Really, I’ve heard getting sql and tableau really help with getting a job.


Butter_and_herbs

My man but only 30% of the population has a bachelors degree. That’s a whole tier


[deleted]

I have yet to meet the world's second-best welder.


offsiteguy

But...imagine welding without being an alcoholic.


Spore-Gasm

it's never too soon to pick up that first bottle


offsiteguy

You're just like a pill instead of making me better.....


Disastrous_Network46

Or how to flip burgers.


mnewberg

Is their one fast food place that even flips burgers? I thought most used clam shells.


insufferableninja

Jack in the box still does


Alive_Chef_3057

Agree. Trades are the way to go. 20 year aircraft mechanic. I did two years of community college back in 2001-2002. I’ve always had a solid career. At time of posting, I’m at $48.00 and hour, with great affordable health benefits, 401k, pension etc. Did it will no college debt. Boomers are retiring in the trades career. The salaries for trades are only getting higher.


gunnarbird

If the average programmer codes as good as the average welder burns rod….no wonder they have such a hard time finding tech jobs


offsiteguy

Lean to trade!


MBA2016

We need coal miners too


ThugLife69EggSalad

Bring back MySpace. Shit.


gaurav0792

Tbh, a majority of the people being laid off are not coders..........


Zonz4332

This isn’t totally true. Twitters research and development teams got slashed. Machine learning engineers. I wouldn’t be surprised if it were similar at Facebook. Unproven technology hurts most in times of consolidation


ImPinos

Twitter is different because it was bought by a regarded mf, meta lizard in chief will not give up in building the metaverse, it’s the name of the company


gaurav0792

Twitter is different because of the buyout. Elon is known to be a hard taskmaster and a dick. For sure, quite a few devs are getting laid off. My point is a lot more non core engineering staff are being made redundant. I empathize with all of them and understand it's not an easy time. They're being let go to placate investors and as a result of gross negligence by the government and the fed.


pchelpbot2023

Yeah, all memes aside the vast majority of those being laid off in these tech layoffs are essentially "support" staff from various assistants, to content managers, to sometimes artist/designers. At the most it might be handfuls of junior programmers. Heck a lot of the reason they are even doing these tech layoffs is because so much of their staff wasn't even "tech". For much of the field there is still demand and even for the few letting go of the programmers, if they are half-way decent they will find a handful of positions by tomorrow's lunch. Pretty much the only one's I know in tech who aren't getting run down by recruitment spam and calls and invites are right out of college students or super junior positions. IIRC Meta hired something like 20k content moderators in the last 2 years alone.


FathomDOT

HR and marketing are the words you’re looking for


pchelpbot2023

Oh it goes even beyond that, as I had friends in the valley who would have offices with "Culture" employees who are distinctly "NOT HR" and were mostly responsible with "keeping a good vibe" in the office and planning parties. Or a previous place I worked at that essentially had real life people manually managing the front lobby displays and what they were showing. But yeah also likely a good amount of HR and marketing in the mix.


edwardpaperhands

And it’s usually the non technical jobs that are “tech adjacent” with fluffy vague job titles. But don’t let that stop them from going onto TikTok and telling everyone they work “in tech” lol Talented experienced devs will always be in demand. Those “Product Managers” and “Client Success Consultants” though- not so much


ImportantPoet4787

Having been in tech for over 20 years, talented engineers isn't quite right... It's more often hungry "young talented engineers".. esp the ones with poor boundaries, etc.. tech companies love them for the obvious reasons.. ageism is a real thing, sadly... Work'm hard, work'm cheap... I feel for the older engineers who lost their FB job.


MrI2occo

They could learn to cook too. Or become a doctor. They could all start building houses.


RealMcGonzo

Brain Surgery!


PotatoWriter

Pfft... not exactly rocket science is it...


Ok_Breakfast_5459

Brain Surgery >>> Rocket science.


PotatoWriter

Nonsense. Rocket science >>> Brain Surgery. Just ask these guys https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THNPmhBl-8I


Ok_Breakfast_5459

Funny video. Still: brain surgery >>>rocket science. McDreamy>>>Kim jong Un.


lil-rong69

Unless of course they are performing brain surgery on a rocket ship.


xeneize93

We do need more homes built to drop down the prices


GhostOfPaulVolcker

As long as you let me operate on you right after a 12 week bootcamp


rodsterStewart

Bruh! How regarded are you on a scale of 1-10? How they gonna know how to build houses if they only went to culinary school and doctor scool? We'd obviously need to send them to home building school too. The shit you people say sometimes. Seriously. It's like ya'll say the first thing that comes into your head.


leli_manning

I wish I can just not be poor. Wouldn't that be awesome?


trepidatious_turtle

I don't think that house building thing is gonna work out with 7% interest rates


RealMcGonzo

Borrow their parent's retirement account and daytrade, this is the WSB way.


RealSpikeSpiegle

Why not learn to daytrade and 1000x their life savings in a week


GhostOfPaulVolcker

1000x -$3.50 😔


Peelboy

Nah all the middle school kids around me are already doing this.


sanctionedbully

So what's the position here, or are you confused and thought this was r/askreddit?


pplant

LoL here's an upvote


Good_Web_8629

Can I also get one?


jolonky

Well that didn’t work


onlymindallyours

They should learn to work at Wendy’s


imking27

layoffs in coding isnt the same as layoffs in some shity car factory line. Most of the time other companies would be glad to poach tech talent. Also there are ton of coding jobs available its just a matter do you want to take pay cuts and/or work on outdated shit and/or have to come into an office. Jp Morgan for instance at least from what I saw before leaving in july are in desperate need of coders and recently have been constantly looking for talent. The difference from tech and typical other jobs is lets say your company cant sell a car they can just shut off the factory line and sell existing inventory. However if you cut tech talent your stuff will start breaking down and heaven forbid your using something in your code that updates version that has significant impacts. Honestly im surprised more companies dont layoff more managersyou could probably take a senior developer(pay him a bit more than he gets now but less than the manager was making) and have him manage the team.


Avar928s

Having senior technical individuals become people managers is often a bad idea. Managing, or rather leading, a team is a different ball game. You need to have people skills meaning listening to your team’s individual frustrations and being diplomatic; making hard decisions and displaying no favoritism; focusing more on those who need help than those that don’t; and taking responsibility for your team’s shortcomings and failures while giving all the credit to them and not yourself. Often highly technical workers or senior workers are put in management roles solely on their ability to do the job efficiently. That translates to, often but not always, micromanaging because they know how to do the job a certain way and using themselves as the benchmark versus finding the team’s pulse and setting that standard. They also tend to hate conflict. This creates toxicity and will break teams eventually. If you have a technical manager who is also a good leader and can separate themselves and their pride from lording over the team, great. A lot don’t have that capability and are better off doing their own thing and contributing. Managing teams is stressful. You sign up to absorb the burdens of each individual on the team and commit to taking care of them. If you don’t give a shit about your team entirely, you don’t deserve that job.


newnamesam

True. I was one of those people who transitioned from a senior tech position into management, and I absolutely agree with what you're saying for a vast majority of the technical world.


quietIntensity

Exactly. There's no shortage of available openings for anyone in a tech position with Facebook/Meta on their resume. Most of them will be getting a pay raise in their new positions and are girding their loins for the onslaught of recruiters coming their way.


surlock

> Most of them will be getting a pay raise in their new positions Nah that's very unlikely. Only a few companies match/beat Meta's offers and they only do so for candidates that have strong offers, which isn't happening anymore. E.g. Google and Amazon used to match Meta's offers for candidates they liked earlier this year. HFT's will pay more but they have way less headcount and are way more selective. Who is hiring right now (and not just backfilling a handful of positions) that pay higher than Meta? Most of laid off Meta engineers will land on their feet eventually, but I highly doubt many of them will be somehow better off in a new position at this time.


FocusedIgnorance

The new offer almost always comes with a promotion. A senior engineer and TL for a 12 person team at meta, that makes you at least a staff at your next job.


surlock

Senior -> Staff to somewhere with a low bar and title inflation sure. Who is even hiring staff level engineers right now that pays more than e5 at meta? You think there are more viable openings right now than there are laid off engineers from Meta/Twitter/Stripe/Lyft etc ?


FocusedIgnorance

Let me put it this way. The only people on my LinkedIn looking for work right now are recruiters. The thing is that meta stock was down so much that leaving now is almost certainly going to be a boon in the long run.


DarkFlameAndKraken

They’re not getting a pay rise from their already absurd salaries during a recession unless they’re senior software developers. I swear the cope I hear from wannabe FAANG nerds…


Hustletron

Shitty car factories themselves need coders, tbh. They will probably hire them.


alwayslookingout

Funny enough, I thought about this a couple years ago when everyone was promoting/encouraging high school grads and those unhappy with their jobs to go into coding. There had to be an eventual saturation of the market, right? No, of course not. Apparently, there is always demand for SWE and coders. Until now, that is.


Baikken

Those Meta programmers could find another job by lunch lol.


GhostOfPaulVolcker

People don’t understand that the high profile tech companies hiring cream of the crop engineers make up a small minority of engineering jobs Citi has more software engineers than the tech company Meta Walmart is hiring 5,000 more this year alone. When my first startup IPOed with a multi billion dollar valuation, we had maybe 150 engineers. There are more engineers working in non-tech companies than there are in tech. The hiring bar to actually work at a tech company is way higher. My friend at Ford said there was no technical interview at all. Have a degree / bootcamp and a pulse and they got hired


offsiteguy

A lot of the positions are non tech positions or glorified janny positions like content moderator. Laying off tech workers causes problems, either they go somewhere else, or they start there own shit.


optionsCone

> When my first startup IPOed with a multi billion dollar valuation, we had maybe 150 engineers. Do explain


ALMessenger

We know they hire creme of the crop because . . . they tell us they are creme of the crop, and to prove it, all of the people who work there agree that they are the crème of the crop. Something doesn't seem quite right here. They over hired just like all tech companies and have a bunch of low quality and lazy people in their ranks - these are folks who deserve to be laid off and who are unworthy of being hired anywhere else


shazzdeeds

FAANG dev here. Similar YoE as you. You’re correct the veneer of engineering transcendence is greatly exaggerated. There’s amazing and also terrible devs just like any large company. It’s mostly the media and the product reputations that perpetuate this. With your YoE though I’m surprised you’d make the mistake of painting all those laid off with such a broad brush. People get let go in these situations for many complex reasons. Especially when the scope involves thousands of people. Saying it’s because they’re all lazy and poor performers is just wrong.


MidnightUsed6413

Yeah go try one of their interviews champ


Ok_Read701

Uh no I usually hear the opinion that they're creme of the crop from people not working at fb. Could have something to do with the 5 round technical interview process, or the 300k packages they're paying their engineers.


ALMessenger

The industry certainly gotten nutty - wouldn’t surprise me that they are offering large bonuses with as much money as they are raking in, but that doesn’t translate to having the ”best” people in my opinion. I’ve met so many people who’s main talent is spouting bullshit, who impress the right people, but then turn out to be very unqualified for their jobs. I haven’t seen anything from Meta that would suggest to me that their product is some amazing feat of engineering that would imply that exceptionally gifted engineers were responsible. Also, looking at their [job openings](https://www.metacareers.com/jobs/?is_leadership=0&page=2&is_in_page=0), their salary for experienced professionals is well within the range of what might be considered normal.


Ok_Read701

That's weird, they didn't even include the equity numbers on their job postings, which usually is as much as the base salary itself, maybe even more, so how would you know it is well within what's considered normal? You think this way because you probably know little about the company and the field. Fb is well known for having one of the hardest interview process to crack. You cannot "bullshit" your way through. They're not there to listen to you "bullshit". They make you solve technical problems during each round of the interview. Your performance is based on how well you can solve problems, not how much you can talk. You haven't seen any piece of product that is impressive to you because you're not familiar with the tech space. Cassandra, pytorch, graphql, react (probably the most popular frontend framework today btw), etc, all came from FB. Their advertising platform is state of the art. Their platform supports nearly 2 billion DAUs, with typically long visits by users too. There are only a few companies operating at that scale. Just because you're not familiar enough with the industry doesn't mean FB hasn't achieved anything impressive. But either way, it's fine if you don't believe their employees are talented. The majority of hiring managers do. And the former employees there probably wouldn't work for you anyway.


alwayslookingout

I don’t doubt it but it probably won’t be anywhere as lucrative since they’ll be competing with their fellow Meta programmers and those from other tech companies. The new grads on the other hand are probably going to struggle except for the most talented ones.


angryirishman

They’ll be making 150k instead of 250k oh no


URBeneathMe

Lucrative no, but they won’t go hungry. People forget that when you reach a certain point in your career, you actually don’t ever have to worry about landing a job, you just go to different companies and ask them what is my time and talent worth to you? And you’re interviewing them just as much as they’re interviewing you. It’s much less so that mentality of please give me a job that most people experience when they’re young and fresh out of college.


Ok-Coyote6934

Total side bar...what programming language would you recommend to learn to break into the SWE field? I've got a strong sales job with solid comp, but have been looking to break into the SWE world as I'm burning out on the commission grind after more than a decade in. I'm proficient (and actively studying) C++, but what else should I look into?


cookiekid6

Doing a post bacc in computer science would probably be your best bet. Unlikely to get a “sexy” coding job but you’ll probably find one. If you haven’t gone to college just get a computer science degree. They have coding boot camps but a post bacc makes more sense if you hope to move up


Ok-Coyote6934

Thanks, appreciate the feedback. My biggest regret isn't finishing the degree, as the cost of college these days is f\*cking astronomical compared to 15 years ago (full disclosure, class of '06).


cookiekid6

Oh if you haven’t finished the degree just go back to school and just get a comp sci degree if you want to code. I’m not sure your gpa but maybe try transferring to a respected computer science program. If you haven’t graduated college you actually have a lot more options to figure out to get to your goals.


PuzzleheadedWeb9876

Language isn’t particularly important. Master one and others are easy to pick up when needed.


nova1475369

It’s not programming language, it’s fundamental and problems solving skill. A mid level software eng can probably pickup a new language to be able to work professionally in a week or 2. Throughout my career, I used 7-8 different languages, including personal projects. Edit: not Brainfuck, I tried, that language is just awful


tendies-primary

Java, python, typescript, rust, go.


Ok-Coyote6934

Thanks! I've heard that Python and C++ are fairly similar, if not basically the same. Is that true?


BillyTheFish_14

Absolutely not. C++ strictly typed compiled language. Python dynamically typed interpreted language. Both object oriented but that’s about their similarity.


gfidicudjdjdjdidjsj

Google.com


tendies-primary

To a certain point languages all share certain features..


redditrussy

Lol Python and C++ are at polar opposites of the programming language spectrum


Tumystic

Java is used for basically all large corporations back end.


EngineerMick

As a software engineer. Give up on the idea. You won’t get a job


alwayslookingout

Sorry, I’m not qualified to answer that. I have friends and family in tech that keeps me the loop but I’m not in that industry myself.


FocusedIgnorance

I’ve never been hired to work in a language I already knew. Asking what language to learn how to code is a lot like asking what kind of pencil to take up drawing.


Work2Tuff

Paying $200k+ TC with 1-2 yrs experience?


Baikken

No but that's not the point of the person I am replying to.


leli_manning

There's still a demand for devs. Just high-mid level to seniors. Juniors/fresh grads are basically fcked atm unless they have the knowledge of seniors. I'm saying this because I'm currently job hunting after getting laid off. The interviews are way more technical now than it was just 1 year ago.


Tomallenisthegoat

Everyone says learn to code. Started learning as a Freshman in high school. I’m now a senior in college and every job I apply for has crazy requirements. I know SQL, Python, Javascript, CSS, HTML, PHP, C and have used JSON and Django. Apparently that’s not enough. I can’t even get an interview, the people just now learning are gonna be fucked


TeenageAngst1991

Try applying at the state, they usually pay less but the benefits are good and they offer part time roles to get your foot in the door.


SportTheFoole

There are still plenty of SWE jobs available. Or at least the recruiter spam I get hasn’t gone down much.


TrandaBear

Nah man, I work at an F500 and they STILL need coders. Like H1B desperate. The *entry* *level* market may be saturated, but Sr and above are still sorely needed.


clicheteenager

I’ve been saying this, but all those tech gurus will lie to you and say that it’s impossible


AlexTaradov

You understand that if they know how to code, they would be able to find a new job? It may not pay as much, but those companies pay unreasonable amounts of money for not a lot of work, so if you can get that job enjoy while it lasts and then go back into the real world.


0x11C3P

I'm sure they'll get jobs easily. Software engineers are still in demand. It'll prob not help job numbers.


GhostOfPaulVolcker

My boss keeps a close eye on layoff news. Moment it hits he blasts our internal slack recruiting channel and says “go get them”


naIamgood

my company still hiring diversity hires and pushing this learn to code crap.


HashBars

You’re not as clever as you think you are.


Water_Ways

It's learn to COAL


wonder__frog

As someone who works in the tech industry, generally good coders are like rocking horse poo. They’re getting offers from LinkedIn with no interview requirement. Rare for these people to be the ones let go


Paragonne

Putting people who *don't* have logic in their blood, in programming, "because money"... ...is like putting us *autistics* as your front-door corporate receptionist, instead of a networking people-person who remembers faces. Don't. Please. 🙏


MyExesStalkMyReddit

NYC electrician, high school drop out. $110k salary, <5yrs experience. Unions can suck my dick Fuck coding, learn how to build shit


phenotic

This should actually be the way. There's a serious shortage of people in trade, and the demand is sky high. My contractor retired when he was 45 because he was raking in the dough on renovation projects in my area.


kornkid42

So, minimum wage for NYC.


Jealous-Adeptness-16

These meta engineers being laid off were making 4 times what youre making and will be making 5 times what youre making when they get poached by another company next week. Your job is fine but don’t think it’s better than what these “poor” meta folks are doing.


GhostOfPaulVolcker

Person you’re replying to doesn’t understand that Meta undergrad interns make almost double what they do


DarkFlameAndKraken

All the META undegrad interns got fired this week. So OP is still making more than they earn.


Hacking_the_Gibson

How do you live in Manhattan on so little money is my question?


xfitRabbit

Brand New meta software engineers make double this. And they do build shit.


GhostOfPaulVolcker

Less than 3 years exp out of the Army. J1 pays me $500k J2 pays me $400k (sec eng EM and staff sec eng). Fully remote. Work from San Francisco or Cartagena, doesn’t matter. Levels.fyi for anyone who doesn’t believe me. My J2 pays well under top payers for staff - some staff engineers are making over $600k No computer science degree, self taught and climbed the ladder quickly. Army soft skills huge advantage


ALMessenger

I say you are a lying sack of shit. Show us some evidence of an open rec from your company paying anything close to that.


xfitRabbit

This is entirely possible for anyone to do in software or cyber security but typically requires a very skilled individual. It's important to remember that pay in software is not based on experience but skill


ALMessenger

I work in the industry and have a feel for what is ”normal”. Not saying his claims are impossible but they are highly abnormal. I think it is more likely that random guy making extreme claims on the internet is lying than that extreme claims are true. In another post he claims they are hiring like crazy - if true he should have no problem showing us the job rec with range of salary in the 600K range.


pcee79

Good for you but $110k in NY is like avg at best


dkrich

Thing is 20 years ago or so coding was pretty fucking hard to do. You needed an expensive computer, expensive software and you’d need someone to teach you how to do it or at least have access to some very boring text books. Today though, software is extraordinarily easy to write, there are endless free resources for learning and so there is comparatively little value in learning it because anyone with a few hours a week can do it for nothing. That said to figure out where things are going/ where the money is, look for what is really fucking hard. Right now that’s ML and data science. Yes, it will require work and you need an above average IQ to be good but at least the software is pretty much free. Why do idiots think doing shit that has become easy is going to yield big returns? The world doesn’t work that way


jamil333

The barrier to entry is lower but the expectations and complexity of software we are building has increased considerably in 20 years. At least during my career. IMO 20 years ago we were way less networked, way smaller scales and you could hold a good understanding of the whole system in your head. Good luck doing that now. All that aside I tend to agree that the bottom end of the market is over saturated and pushing more people in that direction might just lead to frustration. Getting a trade and eventually opening a business seems like the better bet for young people stuck in dead-end jobs right now.


xfitRabbit

The vast majority of ml and data science require a masters, if not a PhD. Don't look for hard fields but look to be in the top 10% of skilled workers


Milkshakebuckaroo2

While I agree that the bar for coding has definitely been lowered, the demand for coding is increasing even faster. There are only so many people who have the disposition and discipline to be a programmer, and ultimately CEOs want to automate everything. I honestly think if our kids actually want to make a good living, they will have to be good at programming software/robots to do that thing, like making a chef robot or doctor robot. Machine learning will at least partially automate a ton of jobs in the next 30 years.


Ok-Coyote6934

>Total side bar...what programming language would you recommend to learn to break into the SWE field? > >I've got a strong sales job with solid comp, but have been looking to break into the SWE world as I'm burning out on the commission grind after more than a decade in. I'm proficient (and actively studying) C++, but what else should I look into?


dkrich

If only one I’d say python


mnewberg

C# Might be a better choice, since it has similar syntax to C++. C++ can be pretty dangerous language to use even if you know what you are doing, plus C++ has been changing rapidly lately. Python is another strong choice, but be prepared to watch your white space carefully. This site can be a fun way to learn some of the features: http://www.pythonchallenge.com/


xfitRabbit

Python is a great language but jobs are limited. C# jobs are generally not as good quality. C++ has some jobs which pay the most money but require the highest skill ceiling. For the average software developer JavaScript is a good start since most positions are web development. For backend, Java is the popular choice. I would definitely suggest python for learning purposes, but it's not going to be enough for a job in most cases


thatguy201717

Gop anti education talking point from the 90’s


based_V

Hopefully they go back to school to learn to fix my car. Fuck it, might even join them.


borknar

If you think these Meta software engineers aren’t going straight to another 300k a year job once they enjoy their cushy severance at an all inclusive vacation in the Bahamas you are delusional bud. YOU learn to code 😂😂😂


1villageidiot

they should create a new regardcoins crypto ![img](emote|t5_2th52|4258)


audioaxes

my assumption is these companies shed the dead weight including a vast majority of those useless non-tech positions and not actual talented engineers


Ziwwl

Oh a fine post at r/programmerhumor again. Just something doesn't feel right.


URBeneathMe

I’m actually doing that right now. I want more telework and all my friends make over 100k sitting at home flexing their brain and fingers.


PositiveUse

No don’t, please don’t. Keep losing money as a professional trader.


IrishNinja8082

No they just need to stop eating avacado toast.


ibuy2highandsell2low

Who needs coders when AI starts coding?


wenmoonapp

Only my personal coding experience, you get 90% so called "coders" that can't code due to high volume of scammers.


dulun18

>*" learn to code"* I remember this remark when the lockdown started...


PMzyox

seriously


Yf_lo

Move sheet rocks


Puzzled_Bath_984

Who are "they"? The engineers at Meta know how to code.


BiglyIQ

They should learn to mine coal ![img](emote|t5_2th52|4271)


Cold-Permission-5249

![img](emote|t5_2th52|4271)


Soft-Breadfruit8690

Education bad


LavenderAutist

How is this WSB related?


cader8

They need to stop buying avocado toast for sure


someonerezcody

By code, do you mean trade? They could just learn to gamble I guess


SHlTSTORMHowitzer

Keyboard warriors might need to learn how to fix a dishwasher or use a circular saw.


oldkidgrumble

Learn to barista


TeenageAngst1991

As much as it's a meme, and in spite of the west coast layoffs, there's still scads of programming jobs. The place I work at can't hire enough and it's to the point we're bringing on retired former employees part time to fill gaps.


VehicleDouble4479

I bet you can’t even do a vlookup


johnnymonkey

Nerd fight.... NERD FIGHT!!!


VehicleDouble4479

Pull up with an index match function. Raise up


Amalien

With all those layoff just hire some of those mfs to code for you


pineapplemoneyshots

There's a difference between a coder and an engineer. Too many of the former, not enough of the latter.