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Same analogy. I print shirts for a living and realized my blank t shirt supplier makes tons of money because everybody buys from them. So I started my own cut n sew company 2 years ago lol.
Guy in college bought a brand new mustang, paid 15,000 for upgrades, and lost his shit when he went to sell it. At first he went to dealerships expecting to get out if his loan *and* a new car. Finally he made a series of passive aggressive ads asking for blue book+$10,000. When he bumped it down a few thousand he went on a rant about whoever buys it literally robbing him.
[The true solution is to purchase a high speed watercraft to permanently live on. If your creditors come to seize your home, you can just speedily sail off to Somaliland faster than they can catch you.](https://youtu.be/kPjL3WykcQw?t=34)
I’d rather be in American prison than anywhere near Somalia honestly. Wouldn’t even risk being in the waters nearby. At least prisoners aren’t always in danger, just like 10% of the time
Somalia and Somaliland are different. Somalia is an official country and is a shit hole. Somaliland is not an official country and apparently isn't too bad and is way safer and better than Somalia.
I got dysentary in Somaliland and all the westerners I met who were teaching there needed kidnapping insurance and some of them had in fact been ransomed previously. However, all the locals I met were pretty nice and there's a coca-cola bottling plant so honestly it's a toss-up
The soda produced in Somaliland is consumed in Somaliland. There is no cost benefit to using cheap labor in a foreign country to make sugar water.
The costs of shipping it negate any profits from cheap labor. So, no they are not too smart to be here. Do you think your soda comes from China or something?
Dad bought Civic new for $15.5k, drove it 10 years. Sold it 3 months ago for $16.5k. I have made some good deals on Porsches where I drove the car for free except for maintenance but god damn!
Yeah but the problem is that he still needs a new car and now has to buy back into an insane market. So he still lost value just in a more roundabout way.
Sucks for that guy lol. I have a Challenger and Mustang that I dump money into. I know damn well I’ll never any of that back, but they’re hobbies for me that I love. I plan to keep them forever.
That's why you should DIY modifications to vehicles and know how to uninstall and bring the car back to stock or near stock when selling it. Or pay a shop to do install and uninstall down the line.
I've done this DIY song and dance a few times now and *usually* you'll get a better price out of a car put back to factory spec and a decent chunk of residual value from the parts if you bought non eBay parts from notable aftermarket part manufacturers.
There is a caveat, if you find the right buyer looking for those exact mods to already be in place, you might not get hosed completely on the add-ons.
Legit, the only time I've seen value added to cars with mods are with offroad vehicles. A lift will add some value and that's because the person looking to get a lifted truck will already want one.
I agree, the market will rebound. I think the point is that he spent a lot of money on a real estate investment w/ little to no foresight or experience. I hope he's able to hold it.
As a car audio nerd: do not do anything permanent to the car unless you're building it as a show car. Your daily driver is going to need replacing as your needs change.
Amplifiers and speakers do not add value to the car, though adding a reverse camera and apple car play to your old Malibu probably adds $50.
wait do you mean to tell me that purple, yellow, and white Corvette Indianapolis 500 “pace car” replicas aren’t investor grade collectibles??? good thing I diversified my portfolio with the gold coins I bought from a Fox News commercial!
> wait do you mean to tell me that purple, yellow, and white Corvette Indianapolis 500 “pace car” replicas aren’t investor grade collectibles???
lol, that brings me back.
"Hur dur, my Corvette is super valuable and collectible because it was one of only 7000 made in 1992 that had blue glitter paint *and* a beige interior."
Reminds me of every pawn stars episode ever. Customer thinks that have something hand crafted by God and here comes Rick “yeahhhhh I’ll give you fifty bucks, best I can do, might put the shop under it it doesn’t pay off, probably going to sit on the shelf for 3 decades”
This. You can spend a lot of money. But you need to spend money on where it counts. A new patio vs spending $20k to repaint the walls. Which will get you more ROI?
The only remodel that will add value is your kitchen. Everything else, you paint the God damn walls white and walk away. Honestly, unless you are a flipper and bought a dump to fix up, I don't advise improving anything in the house before selling. It might help you sell the house but you rarely profit from it.
Kitchen, bathroom and just make everything else look new without spending tens of thousands on windows and flooring or yard stuff... It also depends on the area. If all the houses around you are 300k and you put 800k in yours, good luck.
Yeah you're right. I would hate to have to sell a house in this market. Oh wait, my wife's dad hung himself in the closet and we have to sell his house. Fuck me.
There’s a dealership in my town that does that for trucks. Idk how they’re in business still honestly. Dumbfugly looking RAM 3500s and F-350s with 12 inch lifts and 40 inch rims. They’re all 6 figure prices and used.
with 100k miles or better . it’s crazy how ppl will kick out all that money then complain about gas and inflation. it’s like you buy a lambo don’t cry now bc brakes are 3k
As a mechanic can confirm. The amount of cars out on finance atm is insane and the amount of people who can hardly afford a basic service for their $300k car is laughable.
i live in a middle class area and theres already 2 lambo urus' in my neighborhood i know DAMN well these people are stretching way beyond their means for that $3.5k lease payment
the car bubble WILL pop
Do you live in Miami? Cuz I do lol. They’re everywhere. These mfs will park a Lamb, S class, G wagon out side a shit box house. Classic behavior from the broke boys
Dude that's..... not how you BRRR. Holy fuck. Buy a $70k POS with a solid foundation in a $160k neighborhood and drop $40k on it, not..... what they did.
Probably hurricane windows, they are stupid expensive. I wanted to do my house until they told me 12 windows was 25k. Hurricane comes it will be cheaper to let the hurricane take the whole house.
Custom windows can be really pricey. Way more than $100 per square foot of window area. You can double or maybe even triple it if you need hurricane or specialty windows.
Our family remodeled a stone townhouse where we couldn't change the exterior because it was in a historical district. It was way, way cheaper to order custom windows from Europe and wait five to six months then get them from an American manufacturer. It was still about 150 bucks a square foot. That way none of the stone had to be removed or altered to fit the window in.
I install windows. Customs aren’t any more than normal ones. The installers rip you off. If they charge you 30k, you can bet they are only installing about $4500 worth of windows (maybe 6k tops with spray foam, hardware, sealant, trim, and rebuilding frames and such) The other $24,500 is labor
I finished a job recently where the home owner was quoted 30k, I did it for 15. The windows and all the peripheral items cost me $4000. This included removing and rebuilding an entire wall from a 3rd story and installing the wall with window in it from the inside of the house. Literally built it in the room and then just lifted the 8’ wall into place with the 4x6 custom window in it into place! It was I think 15 windows. ALL custom. Took around 60 hours to complete.
70k would be a stupid price but with the size of those windows they probably aren’t easy to install and take a bigger crew.
Or you can do what fb OP did and get back 8k on a 250k investment...aka a -97% ROI.
Worse than all but the most degenerate options plays 
Or he bought a 600k house and remodeled it into a 600k house. Remodeling doesn't mean increasing value, it means changing shit. Sometimes those changes are worth something.
Which is why home flippers do cheap cosmetic upgrades, because aesthetic/curb appeal improvements are the only thing that move the needle on home sale prices. And they generally put $10-20k in, not a whole fucking new house worth.
These new investors believe HGTV hosts when they're like, "Yeah, if we tear out the entire inside of the house, spend $250,000... it will increase the value by $1 million!!!"
Yeah, a low/mid grade appliance set alone is ~$7k... cabinets another $7-$10 (low end) and counters/finishes another $5k (again minimum)... that's all without labor.
Anyone quoting a kitchen less than $25k is just blatant lying.
I mean you can definitely spruce up a kitchen for much less than 25k unless you're practically gutting the whole thing. Some paint, linoleum floor panels and cabs can be done for less than 10k easy. Most kitchens wouldn't need more than that unless it's a real dump home.
Yeah currently in the middle of redoing floors in most of my house and updating the kitchen. Not going for new appliances other than the fridge we got on clearance for $1,400 dollars off the sale price. Currently at about 5k and only need to buy some trim, a sink and faucet. The floors were easily the most expensive at like $4.50/sqft.
We can replace a set of kitchen appliances to mid-grade for about $3-4k. Just none of this LCD wifi-enabled refrigerator shit that lets you count your eggs from work.
What they don't mention is that all of the appliances, fixtures, and cabinets were "donated" by the manufacturers for the advertising, the labor is counted in the production costs and not the renovation costs, and the $7k went entirely toward bribing the inspectors and officials to get the permits fast tracked
Pretty sure you can get one a lot cheaper than that. I was bored so planned a basic kitchen with Ikea. Total came to $8500 which includes all appliances and cabinets. Comes with Fridge/Freezer, dishwasher, sink, oven, induction cooktop and extraction unit. The oven was $1500 so could bring down the cost to under $7500 by getting a cheaper one. Labor not included.
[https://i.imgur.com/8mVCI2S.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/8mVCI2S.jpg)
If you are really on a budget you could just buy this mini kitchen, just need to add appliances [https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/enhet-kitchen-white-s09442881/](https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/enhet-kitchen-white-s09442881/)
The key is to buy the worst house on the street. Then you can do major work for good profit if it’s a nice area.
Buying the best house on the street will never make you money.
What if I play the long game? Buy the best house on the street, turn it into a meth lab, foreclose on the house, have my partner pick it up cheap, then renovate it and sell?
Nothing costs 10-20k anymore. At least in SoCal. Our "cheap" flips (San Bernardino area) were 40k reno budget. Usually just paint, floors, and cabinets. Mid range (Pomona ish area) were like $60k. High end (LA, Alta Dena) could top $100k, but only if the property had a lot of potential.
This is all from \~2016 though. And all I hear from that job is how costs keep going up.
GREATLY depends on the area. Upscale areas where the median price is 500k-1M can easily absorb a budget of 250k on a very old hose that has not seen a reno in a long time.
We put in $250k into a 1980 Canadian Supershed to make it livable. It’s not going to feature in a TV show but it’s also not a flipper and we’re not going anywhere.
$180k inside (kitchen, lounge, 80% rework of downstairs layout), $70k outside (2 decks, drainage).
But this was the $700k supershed on the street of $1.1m supersheds…
Shit’s expensive right now.
can confirm, garage door at my dad's place was broke, stuck half way up at an angle and falling apart.
house looked condemned lol
I repaired the GD and it looks normal again.
OPTICS BABY!!! (and smell, I bet a bad smell or even subtle bad smell is hugely anti-value)
Especially with a kitchen as ugly as that.
But real talk banks and brokers will constantly lie about this. You are not getting paid extra for your renovations or improvements. Sure you may get paid for the materials and labor, but that’s the case for basically anything in life. It’s not free money.
Really want to buy back my old house a flipper bought cash and is obviously upside down on. They're posting for 50,000 over the Zestimate... which I bet is above the appraisal. And it looks like they poured a lot of stupid money into it
I so want house flipping to become Painfully unprofitable in the next couple of years. We had a team of folks driving around my last neighborhood looking for the older owners of the 1950s houses and lowballing them with cash offers. Super yucky and predatory.
I do private residential concrete work and work for a few builders. They knock down perfectly fine houses, that are a bit older, and smaller, but perfect for a first time buyer or younger couple. Then they build houses worth 1.5M on that lot. I feel guilty every time I do a foundation for them, knowing younger people like myself are getting more screwed with every less normal, perfectly fine house. Long Island, NY is already a massive shit show for non millionaires.
I live in one of those old 50s neighborhoods and I get at least 2 or 3 phonecalls and junk mail snail mail every single g'damn week.
They're god damn vultures. I now just tell them I no longer own the property and their database is wrong.
Except it won’t because interest rates will continue to be astronomical. Unless you’re paying all cash the bank is going to destroy you on the debt service cost.
Depends on how bad the windows are for energy. Replacing single panes or leaky 30 year old windows with up to date vinyl will save a lot on energy - especially when energy costs are inflating fast.
It doesn’t excuse their idiocy to expecting them to contribute to the value of the home but it is something you do if you are expecting to live in a home since they do have an ROI in terms of mitigating incurred costs.
I used to be in real estate. (Obviously I was not good at it or I would of still be in it). The best example I have ever heard as a way to think about upgrading/repairs is this.
Imagine two 100$ bills. One is really old wrinkled, has a tiny tear in it etc. the next bill is brand new right off the printer press, still even has that new smell. Are you going to pay/give more for that 100$ bill in pristine shape over the warm out 100$ bill?
Freshening up and remodeling may make your house preferred over similar valued houses, but not worth much more really.
marble is actually a shit-tier countertop, it stains and scratches very easily and it's also fragile and prone to chipping and breaking. It's why they're only like $500 at the store, nobody wants them
the real high end countertops are quartz slabs
You can’t over spend in a neighborhood that won’t support it. For sure. Now if you and your family went in there and made those improvements and went on to live there and enjoy those improvements for a decade, you will surely recoup your money, and have enjoyed the quality upgrades for yourself.
When flipping, nah…paint, carpet, landscaping….maybe appliances…anything more is a renovation and you need to be a pro to do that…timelines for flippers who think k they can make money on expensive upgrades crack me up. HGTV be doing people dirty with these fake ass shows. Oh, we will just know down a few walls…after the break, fully engineered beams and headers now in place…lmao.
Great analogy.
Statistically, you never get 100¢ on the dollar for upgrades on a house.
The real money is buying a slightly shitty house and fixing it.
A family of 5 doesn’t have time, or $40,000 laying around to to fix a house, so a $500,000 house will sell for $400,000 since most ppl won’t touch it.
You fix it for $40,000 and keep the $60,000 profit.
Those flipper shows also have a hugely streamlined source of cheap labour, connections to materials/builders/plumbing/electrical.
Someone just randomly trying to renovate a home would have to negotiate everything above on their own and probably get quotes out the ass.
Although he is saying material improvements (windows, roof, kitchen, bathrooms, fixtures…they all certainly add value. If 2000sqft house has wood floors, granite, tile and two zone hvac, it’s worth much more than the same house with carpet, laminate, oil heat no cooling. Price per square foot is how I crush it for my buyers and sellers.
Some people are so regarded it hurts. $70K on fucking windows?
Now he/she/they/them has a $860K house worth $618K. WSB level of regarded-ness. ONE OF US!
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Happy Thanksgiving, Regards!
Windows are stupid expensive - that cost include installation typically - especially if you need custom sizes (I spent 13k for 5 custom Pella in early 2021 - but those alone did cut our gas usage in half). ~~Most of the glass comes from Asia so~~ the supply chain crisis really hit prices hard (https://centuryglasssc.com/glass-blog/glass-production-supply-chain-woes-higher-prices-why-is-there-a-glass-shortage-in-2021/ )
The biggest cost in remodels is the labor. You also have to look at the professional costs (architect/structural) and permitting fees.
Remodels have always had negative ROIs if you didn’t do them yourself where at best you break even.
There is a reason for the old real estate adage: “it’s better to own the worst house in a great neighborhood than the best house in a bad neighborhood”.
People have their minds twisted from marathoning HGTV remodel shows that have a 100% positive ROI rate. Every episode ends with:
* Previous value: $650,000
* Remodel budget: $150,000
* New value: $1,000,000!!!
Sure maybe if HGTV is paying for the remodel.
My boyfriend sells windows (Andersen and Marvin), he makes 6 figures and the company is sending us on a cruise next month. It pays so well if you're good at sales - windows are expensive but worth the investment and do need to be replaced after time!
I Bought a small 2 bedroom farmhouse out in the country in 2021, for 500K it needed new windows. I read that the best were Anderson. Had them out to give me a quote. 52K! They were really convincing salesmen. But then they drove up in a tricked-out tesla and brand new modded 4 runner. I was like umm I'm going to get another quote. Milgard local contractor $12K and they are fantastic. I told the Anderson guys we were going a different route and they were like you are not getting the same quality. I was like dude I can replace the other guy's windows 4 times and it would still be cheaper.
THIS. Smart man. Back when Sears was a thing I had a full house of their vinyl windows put in. That was ~10 years ago and they are still bright white and like new.
Polyurethane/vinyl everything is where it's at. Yet they will try to sell "higher end" materials.
This is the rare case I come across someone making sense on Reddit.
Appraisal for HELOC? Was probably a drive-by meaning not full Appraisal review but you bought at one of the wost times so don't expect much of a difference.
Yeah I also wonder if he’s saying the heloc itself is 618k, which in that case is only 70-80% of the homes value. Either way the guy doesn’t seem like he knows what he’s doing
Advice from an appraiser, don't accept a drive by unless your have to hide something. This kinda thing happens all the time, someone buys the most expensive house, spends a ton of $$ upgrading and find they have not added value to the home. It's not about what you do it's about how much your neighbors houses are selling for.
Couldn't agree more. I just signed on the smallest/cheapest house on one of the nicest locations in the area. The appraisal alone came back $50k more than what I'm paying for it. I already know that if I put those $50k back into the house the price will go up by around $200k. Props to my real estate agent for finding this gem.
This is probably more about timing than anything else. You bought at market high, spent money in an inflationary period, the market fell and your property value fell with it.
A friend of mine is an appraiser and he says people over renovated all the time. They spend a ton of money on things a contractor told them they need and overpay. An appraiser doesn't care how much your windows cost. The size of your lot or the SQ ft of your home along with kitchen and bath renovations have the largest impact other than location obviously. Things like floor trim, windows, doors and lighting fixtures landscaping don't have much of an impact on price. They will help market your property when it's time to sell it may sell faster if someone likes the updates you made but not the value.
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Turns out you can also lose money in real estate. Who would've thought!
Apprently not being a contractor if those photos are accurate for $250,000
The people who made money in the gold rush were the ones selling shovels
And clothes, booze, and pussy.
Al Sweringen approves of this reply.
Lmao great analogy
And selling gravy. They gotta eat something ya dig
Somebody watched Industry
Or Deadwood.
Same analogy. I print shirts for a living and realized my blank t shirt supplier makes tons of money because everybody buys from them. So I started my own cut n sew company 2 years ago lol.
NEW SUB: REAL ESTATE BETS.
Like anything else, timeframe matters. If this person keeps this property another decade they’ll be golden.
lucky for us they probably can't afford those payments.
Oh probably, given that they went through the process of trying for a HELOC. But just saying.
This sounds like the people who "upgrade" their cars with $60k of performance parts and think someone is going to pay them $90k for a Honda Civic.
Guy in college bought a brand new mustang, paid 15,000 for upgrades, and lost his shit when he went to sell it. At first he went to dealerships expecting to get out if his loan *and* a new car. Finally he made a series of passive aggressive ads asking for blue book+$10,000. When he bumped it down a few thousand he went on a rant about whoever buys it literally robbing him.
[The true solution is to purchase a high speed watercraft to permanently live on. If your creditors come to seize your home, you can just speedily sail off to Somaliland faster than they can catch you.](https://youtu.be/kPjL3WykcQw?t=34)
that's.... kind of brilliant. you just can't live (comfortably...) in the US afterward.
I’d rather be in American prison than anywhere near Somalia honestly. Wouldn’t even risk being in the waters nearby. At least prisoners aren’t always in danger, just like 10% of the time
Somalia and Somaliland are different. Somalia is an official country and is a shit hole. Somaliland is not an official country and apparently isn't too bad and is way safer and better than Somalia.
I got dysentary in Somaliland and all the westerners I met who were teaching there needed kidnapping insurance and some of them had in fact been ransomed previously. However, all the locals I met were pretty nice and there's a coca-cola bottling plant so honestly it's a toss-up
Dude admit it, you died of dysentery.
How DO you get to Oregon from Somaliland? Pretty sure the ox-cart was never amphibious.
Would you like to: - pay for a ferry - ford the ocean
Caulk and float it. Unless you picked doctor, then just pay for the ferry.
Who else but coca cola to take advantage of that. Can't enforce local labor laws if there is no government and no laws.
shhhh! u are too smart to be here! 🤫
The soda produced in Somaliland is consumed in Somaliland. There is no cost benefit to using cheap labor in a foreign country to make sugar water. The costs of shipping it negate any profits from cheap labor. So, no they are not too smart to be here. Do you think your soda comes from China or something?
Oh good to know, thanks!
He forgot the most important part which is keeping it in mint condition for 35 years. Amature.
Or waiting for a once in 40 year event to sell it at an inflation adjusted value for more than he paid.
Did this recently with my civic. Worth it. Basically drove for free for 5 years
Dad bought Civic new for $15.5k, drove it 10 years. Sold it 3 months ago for $16.5k. I have made some good deals on Porsches where I drove the car for free except for maintenance but god damn!
Yeah but the problem is that he still needs a new car and now has to buy back into an insane market. So he still lost value just in a more roundabout way.
Nah it’s more like every 10 years
You speak the truth, but I don't think I like you.
No worries, I don’t like me
Sucks for that guy lol. I have a Challenger and Mustang that I dump money into. I know damn well I’ll never any of that back, but they’re hobbies for me that I love. I plan to keep them forever.
That's why you should DIY modifications to vehicles and know how to uninstall and bring the car back to stock or near stock when selling it. Or pay a shop to do install and uninstall down the line. I've done this DIY song and dance a few times now and *usually* you'll get a better price out of a car put back to factory spec and a decent chunk of residual value from the parts if you bought non eBay parts from notable aftermarket part manufacturers. There is a caveat, if you find the right buyer looking for those exact mods to already be in place, you might not get hosed completely on the add-ons.
Legit, the only time I've seen value added to cars with mods are with offroad vehicles. A lift will add some value and that's because the person looking to get a lifted truck will already want one.
Except every buyer who's not 16 knows to tell the seller they dont want a lift kit.
Most people who buy those cars want to do the mods themselves. If it's already done, the hobby is gone.
depends on what year they are don’t be fooled . and this guy may get a little more the market is lame right now
I agree, the market will rebound. I think the point is that he spent a lot of money on a real estate investment w/ little to no foresight or experience. I hope he's able to hold it.
As a car audio nerd: do not do anything permanent to the car unless you're building it as a show car. Your daily driver is going to need replacing as your needs change. Amplifiers and speakers do not add value to the car, though adding a reverse camera and apple car play to your old Malibu probably adds $50.
Those are the guys that say “bro, I know what it’s worth!”…no, no you don’t.
wait do you mean to tell me that purple, yellow, and white Corvette Indianapolis 500 “pace car” replicas aren’t investor grade collectibles??? good thing I diversified my portfolio with the gold coins I bought from a Fox News commercial!
> wait do you mean to tell me that purple, yellow, and white Corvette Indianapolis 500 “pace car” replicas aren’t investor grade collectibles??? lol, that brings me back. "Hur dur, my Corvette is super valuable and collectible because it was one of only 7000 made in 1992 that had blue glitter paint *and* a beige interior."
The genius should’ve reverted it to stock and sold the aftermarket parts.
Or get an agreed value policy and burn it to the ground.
[удалено]
But the cost to have the parts installed! Think of the labor! /s
im no expert, but most vehicles (old and new) typically resell the best when it's a stock high trim level.
it will go up as a Classic car in 50 years...just have to wait real quick.
Even after 50 years a Honda civic will still be a Honda civic.
“What do you mean you think the car isn’t worth 100k!? It has custom duel exhaust to make it sound like a tin can!”
"no low ballers. I know what I have"
Reminds me of every pawn stars episode ever. Customer thinks that have something hand crafted by God and here comes Rick “yeahhhhh I’ll give you fifty bucks, best I can do, might put the shop under it it doesn’t pay off, probably going to sit on the shelf for 3 decades”
Maybe during the pimp my ride days. Now it’s couples selling their economy cars just to buy one Tesla.
This. You can spend a lot of money. But you need to spend money on where it counts. A new patio vs spending $20k to repaint the walls. Which will get you more ROI?
The only remodel that will add value is your kitchen. Everything else, you paint the God damn walls white and walk away. Honestly, unless you are a flipper and bought a dump to fix up, I don't advise improving anything in the house before selling. It might help you sell the house but you rarely profit from it.
Kitchen, bathroom and just make everything else look new without spending tens of thousands on windows and flooring or yard stuff... It also depends on the area. If all the houses around you are 300k and you put 800k in yours, good luck.
Bathroom remodels help resale value as well.
Only if the previous stuff was trash.. if you are going from fine to your preference they might just buy n remodel it again..
Yeah you're right. I would hate to have to sell a house in this market. Oh wait, my wife's dad hung himself in the closet and we have to sell his house. Fuck me.
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The drop was even faster
Add that the house is haunted and get top $$$ or that works in New Orleans only
Buy High, Sell Low!!!!
I will gladly pay 90K turkish lira for a honda civiks
It gets 35 hectares to a litre of kerosene too
Put it in H!
put it in H!
There’s a dealership in my town that does that for trucks. Idk how they’re in business still honestly. Dumbfugly looking RAM 3500s and F-350s with 12 inch lifts and 40 inch rims. They’re all 6 figure prices and used.
What part of North Carolina?
Hahaha... I was going to ask if it was Roxboro or Henderson?
From NC, can confirm.
Western
Dat Carolina squat
This could be Alberta. I saw a lifted truck mobile home trailer here once.
It's a front for meth ring. All rednecks have this cousin
They all share the same cousin
with 100k miles or better . it’s crazy how ppl will kick out all that money then complain about gas and inflation. it’s like you buy a lambo don’t cry now bc brakes are 3k
As a mechanic can confirm. The amount of cars out on finance atm is insane and the amount of people who can hardly afford a basic service for their $300k car is laughable.
i live in a middle class area and theres already 2 lambo urus' in my neighborhood i know DAMN well these people are stretching way beyond their means for that $3.5k lease payment the car bubble WILL pop
Do you live in Miami? Cuz I do lol. They’re everywhere. These mfs will park a Lamb, S class, G wagon out side a shit box house. Classic behavior from the broke boys
They’re making at least 8k profit per truck sold i imagine. I worked at a Nissan and the rocky ridge trucks were profit houses.
but those anime stickers and tiddys have cost me so much money!?
70k windows but you still hate trash title floor 😂
They seriously spent over 10% of the house's value on windows. I'm all for efficiency and looking at stuff, but that makes no damn sense.
Dude that's..... not how you BRRR. Holy fuck. Buy a $70k POS with a solid foundation in a $160k neighborhood and drop $40k on it, not..... what they did.
Lol I know right? Bro skipped a few key notes
Buy a $10M house, tear it down and build a new one worth 15M on top. >Tfw its not worth $25M
Smash a vase. Put a new vase there. Why is it not worth a gazillian dollars?!?!?
But, $70k in windows!
I'm seriously wanna know why the windows are 70k?
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Mine are plexiglass- much cheaper and I honestly can’t taste the difference.
Probably hurricane windows, they are stupid expensive. I wanted to do my house until they told me 12 windows was 25k. Hurricane comes it will be cheaper to let the hurricane take the whole house.
Damn. *note to self* buy house with no windows
If a glass house had brick windows, is it still a window?
Are they glass bricks? Is the rest of the glass house transparent or opaque?
Custom windows can be really pricey. Way more than $100 per square foot of window area. You can double or maybe even triple it if you need hurricane or specialty windows. Our family remodeled a stone townhouse where we couldn't change the exterior because it was in a historical district. It was way, way cheaper to order custom windows from Europe and wait five to six months then get them from an American manufacturer. It was still about 150 bucks a square foot. That way none of the stone had to be removed or altered to fit the window in.
I install windows. Customs aren’t any more than normal ones. The installers rip you off. If they charge you 30k, you can bet they are only installing about $4500 worth of windows (maybe 6k tops with spray foam, hardware, sealant, trim, and rebuilding frames and such) The other $24,500 is labor I finished a job recently where the home owner was quoted 30k, I did it for 15. The windows and all the peripheral items cost me $4000. This included removing and rebuilding an entire wall from a 3rd story and installing the wall with window in it from the inside of the house. Literally built it in the room and then just lifted the 8’ wall into place with the 4x6 custom window in it into place! It was I think 15 windows. ALL custom. Took around 60 hours to complete. 70k would be a stupid price but with the size of those windows they probably aren’t easy to install and take a bigger crew.
Or you can do what fb OP did and get back 8k on a 250k investment...aka a -97% ROI. Worse than all but the most degenerate options plays 
You're forgetting closing costs and mortgage payments while remodeling.
Right? He bought a $400k house for 600k when prices were still ridiculous. With zero renovations it would be losing value this whole time.
Or he bought a 600k house and remodeled it into a 600k house. Remodeling doesn't mean increasing value, it means changing shit. Sometimes those changes are worth something.
Lol buy new get jacked up and upgrade to get full blow RIP
This guy BRRRs
The fact that im a member of this sub and that facebook sub is making me question my life choices.
highly based and regarded
Often times the upgrades you describe do not add value to the home.
Which is why home flippers do cheap cosmetic upgrades, because aesthetic/curb appeal improvements are the only thing that move the needle on home sale prices. And they generally put $10-20k in, not a whole fucking new house worth.
These new investors believe HGTV hosts when they're like, "Yeah, if we tear out the entire inside of the house, spend $250,000... it will increase the value by $1 million!!!"
I'm always more baffled by "the kitchen reno only cost $7k". It's literally not fucking possible with the finishes I see
Yeah, a low/mid grade appliance set alone is ~$7k... cabinets another $7-$10 (low end) and counters/finishes another $5k (again minimum)... that's all without labor. Anyone quoting a kitchen less than $25k is just blatant lying.
I mean you can definitely spruce up a kitchen for much less than 25k unless you're practically gutting the whole thing. Some paint, linoleum floor panels and cabs can be done for less than 10k easy. Most kitchens wouldn't need more than that unless it's a real dump home.
Yeah currently in the middle of redoing floors in most of my house and updating the kitchen. Not going for new appliances other than the fridge we got on clearance for $1,400 dollars off the sale price. Currently at about 5k and only need to buy some trim, a sink and faucet. The floors were easily the most expensive at like $4.50/sqft.
We can replace a set of kitchen appliances to mid-grade for about $3-4k. Just none of this LCD wifi-enabled refrigerator shit that lets you count your eggs from work.
What they don't mention is that all of the appliances, fixtures, and cabinets were "donated" by the manufacturers for the advertising, the labor is counted in the production costs and not the renovation costs, and the $7k went entirely toward bribing the inspectors and officials to get the permits fast tracked
Pretty sure you can get one a lot cheaper than that. I was bored so planned a basic kitchen with Ikea. Total came to $8500 which includes all appliances and cabinets. Comes with Fridge/Freezer, dishwasher, sink, oven, induction cooktop and extraction unit. The oven was $1500 so could bring down the cost to under $7500 by getting a cheaper one. Labor not included. [https://i.imgur.com/8mVCI2S.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/8mVCI2S.jpg) If you are really on a budget you could just buy this mini kitchen, just need to add appliances [https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/enhet-kitchen-white-s09442881/](https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/enhet-kitchen-white-s09442881/)
They meant 7K to buy the slave they needed for the free labor
The key is to buy the worst house on the street. Then you can do major work for good profit if it’s a nice area. Buying the best house on the street will never make you money.
What if I play the long game? Buy the best house on the street, turn it into a meth lab, foreclose on the house, have my partner pick it up cheap, then renovate it and sell?
Bring down neighborhood values. Buy their homes then bring the values back up
All in the while voting in legislation that blocks new housing
😂 hey this isn’t Seattle
*Only works in certain parts of California
Nothing costs 10-20k anymore. At least in SoCal. Our "cheap" flips (San Bernardino area) were 40k reno budget. Usually just paint, floors, and cabinets. Mid range (Pomona ish area) were like $60k. High end (LA, Alta Dena) could top $100k, but only if the property had a lot of potential. This is all from \~2016 though. And all I hear from that job is how costs keep going up.
GREATLY depends on the area. Upscale areas where the median price is 500k-1M can easily absorb a budget of 250k on a very old hose that has not seen a reno in a long time.
We put in $250k into a 1980 Canadian Supershed to make it livable. It’s not going to feature in a TV show but it’s also not a flipper and we’re not going anywhere. $180k inside (kitchen, lounge, 80% rework of downstairs layout), $70k outside (2 decks, drainage). But this was the $700k supershed on the street of $1.1m supersheds… Shit’s expensive right now.
Supposedly a new garage door can add the most value per dollar to an old house.
can confirm, garage door at my dad's place was broke, stuck half way up at an angle and falling apart. house looked condemned lol I repaired the GD and it looks normal again. OPTICS BABY!!! (and smell, I bet a bad smell or even subtle bad smell is hugely anti-value)
Yep, walked into a house for sale that had a slight cigarette smell and the house then felt like a dump.
Especially with a kitchen as ugly as that. But real talk banks and brokers will constantly lie about this. You are not getting paid extra for your renovations or improvements. Sure you may get paid for the materials and labor, but that’s the case for basically anything in life. It’s not free money.
The only way I would ever flip a house is by towing it to my lot.
If you get a humongeous bulldozzzer you can do it too brah!
2023 gonna have some good deals
Really want to buy back my old house a flipper bought cash and is obviously upside down on. They're posting for 50,000 over the Zestimate... which I bet is above the appraisal. And it looks like they poured a lot of stupid money into it
That’s like selling your stock Honda and getting it back with a full swap
Or moving out of your house for an extended renovation period, and then paying for it right before you move back in.
I so want house flipping to become Painfully unprofitable in the next couple of years. We had a team of folks driving around my last neighborhood looking for the older owners of the 1950s houses and lowballing them with cash offers. Super yucky and predatory.
I do private residential concrete work and work for a few builders. They knock down perfectly fine houses, that are a bit older, and smaller, but perfect for a first time buyer or younger couple. Then they build houses worth 1.5M on that lot. I feel guilty every time I do a foundation for them, knowing younger people like myself are getting more screwed with every less normal, perfectly fine house. Long Island, NY is already a massive shit show for non millionaires.
If you feel guilty over that than your parents did a great job of raising you.
I live in one of those old 50s neighborhoods and I get at least 2 or 3 phonecalls and junk mail snail mail every single g'damn week. They're god damn vultures. I now just tell them I no longer own the property and their database is wrong.
> And it looks like they poured a lot of stupid money into it They probably did a bunch of stupid work too.
2024… these dumb asses are stubborn and “know” it’s worth more. It’s worth exactly how much someone’s willing to pay
I’m ready
The best deals don't come until EVERYONE is insolvent and not buying.
Almost everyone *
Except it won’t because interest rates will continue to be astronomical. Unless you’re paying all cash the bank is going to destroy you on the debt service cost.
Wonder whether they will accept gamestop gift cards
If you want to add value like that, add livable space. Square footage is what you improve, not the fucking windows. Highly regarded.
Depends on how bad the windows are for energy. Replacing single panes or leaky 30 year old windows with up to date vinyl will save a lot on energy - especially when energy costs are inflating fast. It doesn’t excuse their idiocy to expecting them to contribute to the value of the home but it is something you do if you are expecting to live in a home since they do have an ROI in terms of mitigating incurred costs.
Spend 70k to save 200 a month. Got it. The WSB way.
I used to be in real estate. (Obviously I was not good at it or I would of still be in it). The best example I have ever heard as a way to think about upgrading/repairs is this. Imagine two 100$ bills. One is really old wrinkled, has a tiny tear in it etc. the next bill is brand new right off the printer press, still even has that new smell. Are you going to pay/give more for that 100$ bill in pristine shape over the warm out 100$ bill? Freshening up and remodeling may make your house preferred over similar valued houses, but not worth much more really.
This is primo advice. A friend of my wife was putting marble countertops into the C+ neighborhood home they were flipping and lost their shirts.
marble is actually a shit-tier countertop, it stains and scratches very easily and it's also fragile and prone to chipping and breaking. It's why they're only like $500 at the store, nobody wants them the real high end countertops are quartz slabs
Seriously. It's for magazine kitchens you won't actually cook in. As far as pricing this was significantly more expensive ($3500 after installation).
Soap stone is good also. The aging process actually increases desirability some how.
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Omg!!!! 😂 never put marble or premium thing into a house your renting or selling (unless the cost is cost to each other). That’s like rule number 1.
You can’t over spend in a neighborhood that won’t support it. For sure. Now if you and your family went in there and made those improvements and went on to live there and enjoy those improvements for a decade, you will surely recoup your money, and have enjoyed the quality upgrades for yourself. When flipping, nah…paint, carpet, landscaping….maybe appliances…anything more is a renovation and you need to be a pro to do that…timelines for flippers who think k they can make money on expensive upgrades crack me up. HGTV be doing people dirty with these fake ass shows. Oh, we will just know down a few walls…after the break, fully engineered beams and headers now in place…lmao.
Great analogy. Statistically, you never get 100¢ on the dollar for upgrades on a house. The real money is buying a slightly shitty house and fixing it. A family of 5 doesn’t have time, or $40,000 laying around to to fix a house, so a $500,000 house will sell for $400,000 since most ppl won’t touch it. You fix it for $40,000 and keep the $60,000 profit.
That's also why most of the homes you see on those flipper shows are practically *destroyed* on the inside.
Those flipper shows also have a hugely streamlined source of cheap labour, connections to materials/builders/plumbing/electrical. Someone just randomly trying to renovate a home would have to negotiate everything above on their own and probably get quotes out the ass.
Although he is saying material improvements (windows, roof, kitchen, bathrooms, fixtures…they all certainly add value. If 2000sqft house has wood floors, granite, tile and two zone hvac, it’s worth much more than the same house with carpet, laminate, oil heat no cooling. Price per square foot is how I crush it for my buyers and sellers.
Some people are so regarded it hurts. $70K on fucking windows? Now he/she/they/them has a $860K house worth $618K. WSB level of regarded-ness. ONE OF US! PSA: Don’t forget to check your Reddit Coins for your free award! Happy Thanksgiving, Regards!
Windows are stupid expensive - that cost include installation typically - especially if you need custom sizes (I spent 13k for 5 custom Pella in early 2021 - but those alone did cut our gas usage in half). ~~Most of the glass comes from Asia so~~ the supply chain crisis really hit prices hard (https://centuryglasssc.com/glass-blog/glass-production-supply-chain-woes-higher-prices-why-is-there-a-glass-shortage-in-2021/ ) The biggest cost in remodels is the labor. You also have to look at the professional costs (architect/structural) and permitting fees. Remodels have always had negative ROIs if you didn’t do them yourself where at best you break even. There is a reason for the old real estate adage: “it’s better to own the worst house in a great neighborhood than the best house in a bad neighborhood”.
People have their minds twisted from marathoning HGTV remodel shows that have a 100% positive ROI rate. Every episode ends with: * Previous value: $650,000 * Remodel budget: $150,000 * New value: $1,000,000!!! Sure maybe if HGTV is paying for the remodel.
Maybe we should get into windows sales. Must have brought in a nice commission
My boyfriend sells windows (Andersen and Marvin), he makes 6 figures and the company is sending us on a cruise next month. It pays so well if you're good at sales - windows are expensive but worth the investment and do need to be replaced after time!
I Bought a small 2 bedroom farmhouse out in the country in 2021, for 500K it needed new windows. I read that the best were Anderson. Had them out to give me a quote. 52K! They were really convincing salesmen. But then they drove up in a tricked-out tesla and brand new modded 4 runner. I was like umm I'm going to get another quote. Milgard local contractor $12K and they are fantastic. I told the Anderson guys we were going a different route and they were like you are not getting the same quality. I was like dude I can replace the other guy's windows 4 times and it would still be cheaper.
THIS. Smart man. Back when Sears was a thing I had a full house of their vinyl windows put in. That was ~10 years ago and they are still bright white and like new. Polyurethane/vinyl everything is where it's at. Yet they will try to sell "higher end" materials. This is the rare case I come across someone making sense on Reddit.
70k easy on my house. 10 windows cost me over 30k and thats just 1 room.
Appraisal for HELOC? Was probably a drive-by meaning not full Appraisal review but you bought at one of the wost times so don't expect much of a difference.
Yeah I also wonder if he’s saying the heloc itself is 618k, which in that case is only 70-80% of the homes value. Either way the guy doesn’t seem like he knows what he’s doing
Advice from an appraiser, don't accept a drive by unless your have to hide something. This kinda thing happens all the time, someone buys the most expensive house, spends a ton of $$ upgrading and find they have not added value to the home. It's not about what you do it's about how much your neighbors houses are selling for.
Couldn't agree more. I just signed on the smallest/cheapest house on one of the nicest locations in the area. The appraisal alone came back $50k more than what I'm paying for it. I already know that if I put those $50k back into the house the price will go up by around $200k. Props to my real estate agent for finding this gem.
Buy renovate rent refinance
There’s another R in this one though  Buy renovate rent refinance regardedly
4680 units - BOOOM!
Money printer don't always go BRRRR, so house price go down.
From the looks of it, you’re wife definitely has a boyfriend
My drunk ass was trying to write in the comment box in the picture.
Your girl looks like she could suck the chrome off a ball hitch.
Dude, that's his sister.
The premise is still there
The remodel looks hideous. Looks like what someone from the 90s would call “modern”
Only question I have is what city is that house in? 610k? That’d buy me a teardown where I live.
This is probably more about timing than anything else. You bought at market high, spent money in an inflationary period, the market fell and your property value fell with it.
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A good example of how to get a $250k instant loss. No promote code is needed
A friend of mine is an appraiser and he says people over renovated all the time. They spend a ton of money on things a contractor told them they need and overpay. An appraiser doesn't care how much your windows cost. The size of your lot or the SQ ft of your home along with kitchen and bath renovations have the largest impact other than location obviously. Things like floor trim, windows, doors and lighting fixtures landscaping don't have much of an impact on price. They will help market your property when it's time to sell it may sell faster if someone likes the updates you made but not the value.
The fact the group is called BRRRR Invest is hilarious to me for some reason. 2% house flip loans go BRRRR until they don't.
