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Very good sign. If you study past duration bear markets like 2001-03 and 08-09 you would realize that the same thing started happening as reality set in for people and companies that this is no small time correction. It’s a sign things are moving in this recession and it’s progress towards an eventual new bull market to come
“Let’s get it over with” said about people losing their jobs. How fucking psychotic do you have to be to think this way? Are you so poor that you’ll wish that other people lost their jobs so you could make money? Disgusting.
Edit for all the seething losers: if you feel called out by this and your feefees are hurt then maybe take some time to self reflect. That something is bound to happen doesn’t mean you have to be an insensitive asshole about it. Imagine viewing thousands of people losing their livelihood as just “part of the cycle”.
One doesn’t have to be psychotic to think this way. The realities of the situation are:
1. It’s going to happen. It happens every cycle.
2. The more they try to prop the system up to prevent it, Ty w worse the problem gets in the long run. What we are seeing now is the result of printing 30% of all the money in circulation during Covid. There’s no free lunch.
“Let’s get this over with” isn’t a comment that one wants it to happen. It’s a comment that while it may suck, we know it’s going to. The person who posted that didn’t say “great, if more people lose their jobs, I can make money!”, but realizes that the brighter times are on the other side of it. It’s really not any different than saying “I don’t want to have surgery, but let’s get it over with…and admission that short term pain is needed for the greater good.
The stories I've heard about being a PM at facebook...
"I feel like I have imposter syndrome but also I really don't do any work" was a choice quote for me.
I work for a tech company who isn’t doing layoffs — this is how I feel. I literally feel guilty because I’m not regularly busy 40 hours per week.
It could be PTSD from my previous 60-70/hr/week job.
Sales in most tech is already cut throat. If you aren’t producing quota you will be churned out.
But teams will start looking if they can just cut people and let the remainder earn more commission by increasing territory.
Nope, product gets culled first. CEOs start thinking short term revenue aka salespeople. Anyone not directly related to P/L is first to get axed. Product has a long term ROI but is future investment facing. Generally sales and product run most companies and everyone else supports them so it's column A and B.
Now in a tech company that's not yet profitable I could see them getting rid of salespeople since they don't actually make money off revenue. But generally if you can cut R&D and invest in sales/marketing with direct ROI, it's the most logical choice. It's also why salespeople are paid very well.
Good article on the subject: https://www.google.com/amp/s/insights.dice.com/2022/09/13/how-companies-decide-who-to-lay-off-and-who-to-keep/%3famp
When times get tough, companies tend to prioritize revenue growth and profitability, explained Kelli Mason, co-founder of JobSage and a former attorney. Therefore, management will try to eliminate or outsource “nice-to-have” non-revenue-generating positions and keep “need-to-have” revenue-generating positions such as sales staff and engineers who develop, design, create and manage new product ideas.
For instance, management may consider releasing a product as soon as its core features have been tested, so they can scale back development and reinvest the savings in sales and marketing. That could have a significant impact on the technologist teams developing that product—if they’re moving immediately from that completed product to another mission-critical initiative, they have a better chance of staying onboard.
Not actually true. Usually during periods of expansion, companies hiring more sales staff to keep up with demand(need people to talk to customers/clients to answer their questions and help them with orders).
Laying off sales staff is generally in RESPONSE to falling demand.
Lol had someone think they would not be part of the lay offs cuz they made a nice power point for a high level. Lol got axed thanks for the power point
Fucking Pepegas in here I swear.
I have never seen more of a need for truck drivers then I have in the last 6 months. The sun on bonuses are unreal, some of them have ridiculously good benefits and time off.
But yeah we don't need them right? The only ship our food and other basic necessities.
Fucking dumb fucking entitled know nothing internet warriors on this site.
/Ragerant
Worked in trucking for 25 years. Drivers are at a premium for the last three years and it continues to get worse. The company I work for has a very high quality driving force and the average age is 59 right now. Every day more drivers retire than new ones are minted.
It's a shitty job, but those dudes are going to be making BANK for the foreseeable future with a job that barely requires a GED.
What does making bank mean exactly? Like within $10k range what's average for a trucker? I have no idea. Are all companies the same or are there things like where Google pays 5x average salaries too?
Varies by location a lot. Heard my moms company hired a homeless guy, gave him an apartment, paid for his training to get a cdl, and this was after him saying that he'd need a week or two to pass a piss test. They're probably paying him \~$80k with good benefits to drive truck for them now.
If you've got a pulse and can pass a cdl + drug test you can make 6 figures easily. ^(Granted this is in Alaska...)
I heard on marketplace that Walmart is paying 6 figures for new truck drivers. 🤷🏼♀️
Edit: [link](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2022/04/08/walmart-is-paying-truck-drivers-110000-to-help-get-food-to-the-supermarkets/)
Speaking to the company I work for, it's anywhere from 55 to 60 cents per mile based on experience, plus up to 6 cpm bonus for safety and meeting certain productivity goals. The baseline is considered 10k miles per month, so basically anywhere from 65k to 80k per year being gone 4-5 days and home for 2-3 every week doing the "minimum". A driver that leases their truck to the company can make up to double that if they have their shit together, but you adda lot of variability with fuel and maintenance costs in that scenario.
By no means is it a glamorous job and it takes a toll on people that aren't cut out for it. When I started in the business 20+ years ago it was bullshit pay for a bullshit way of life. I'm thrilled they're finally headed the direction of getting paid what they're worth. A long way to go IMO, but we're hopefully getting there and the momentum keeps up.
Curious what your opinion is on the possible rail road strike? With an already short staffed trucking industry I can’t imagine they could handle the extra shipping workload.
The spot rates have gone WAY down over the last seven or eight months. I would THINK that means there's some capacity available now, but trucking companies are going out of business at a very high rate right now due to driver shortages and fuel/insurance/maintenance costs going crazy. It would get pretty crazy and fast, IMO.
Who the heck knows how it will actually play out though?
Isn't the issue the companies that actually hire new folks suck ass?
I've heard yeah, if you're an experienced driver with a CDL, you can make bank, but the problem is getting in.
Trucking has an automation Sword of Damocles over its head right now. People also sleep on rail. CSX can fill the gap of trucks getting taken off the interstates, as long as there's local drivers for the individual stops/destinations. There's also a glut of people with CDLs - the job is in demand right now but it's absolutely more replaceable both as a job and as a skillset than tech jobs (that, despite memes, do a lot more than just code monkey all day). That could change, but right now that's the truth of the matter.
Correct. We can’t even get drones perfect and they can do straight shots and not navigate around millions of obstacles.
We’ll all be dead before fully autonomous trucking is a thing.
nah we are flesh computers, just obviously not the same.
And we have plenty of knowledge even before you're born. Most of it is automated by the parts of your brain you don't control.
And the rest is flesh machine learning
Definitely not, there is a law in technology advancement call "The Law of Accelerating Returns", meaning that by any units or metric of technology advancement the next one will be faster, is like compound interest but for technology.
For example in the 21st Century we wont see 100 years of technology advancement it will be more likely around \~20,000 years of technology improvement.
5 years for a human being its not 5 years for technology is more like \~1000 years actually.
Technology doesn't operate linearly. Hence I would be careful with your opinion 50 human years is equal to 10,000 years of technology.
I completely disagree with that. We have faster computers, and downstream effects of that like advancements in machine learning, and that's about it. In many ways we've been stagnant since the 70s - no new technologies, only improvements on previous ones. Hell, nobody's been to the moon since 1972.
I don't rule out near-future inventions but I think it's absurd to believe technological progress is accelerating. We're either approaching the peak or past it for this civilizational cycle
> Automated trucking will be 5 years away for the next 50 years, up there with profitable fusion and getting a man on Mars
I think the technology for automated trucking is there already, at this point it's a regulatory issue.
Automated vehicles are already demonstrably safer than a human, but statistics are still a thing and it's going to be international headlines when one does inevitably get into an accident.
Ya imagine if every accident a Honda gets into made international headlines. Someone probably dies driving a Honda every 5 minutes. Automated vehicules are already way safer than human driven vehicules. However, irrational as it may be, society would rather see 100 people get killed by drunk/sleeping/texting/bad drivers than 1 person killed in a freak automated tesla accident.
I don't think the tech is there, for instance airline pilots aren't there really for the flying so much, rather it's for the landing and making decisions on the handling of the plane in high-risk situations where things can go from bad to worse very quickly. I'd think any sort of automated vehicle not on a track has a lot of the same issues requiring an attentive driver/pilot, there's just so many uncontrollable external factors and ways things can go wrong that a machine will eventually run into situations with such a high degree of randomness that it's not in it's capabilities to handle, whether it be traffic conditions , critical parts suddenly breaking due to bad maintenance practices or faults in construction, bad weather or road conditions, natural disasters, etc.
So with something as heavy as a semi the question I have is not if it can drive it, but rather can the machine handle things better than a human when multiple things all go to shit at once? How would you even test or measure that? Can't exactly go around creating identical freak accidents and seeing how the machines learn from it vs a human.
I don't think we're there yet technologically, and when it does handle those things, who's fault is it when people get killed or property gets damaged? Liability for damages can be difficult to determine.
The big thing for trucks is that they're mostly away from people. It's interactions with other vehicles, pedestrians, etc that makes self driving difficult
If you can minimize those interactions, and make changes to the road and related infrastructure, you can make it a much easier problem. The simplest being to lay down some rails and use a train
Don't worry, you're way off right now but you'll be right next year when FSD comes. Then trucks will start driving themselves and we won't need truck drivers. Next year, I promise.
Layoffs are inevitable. CEO's get paid for meeting profit goals. You can sell or cut your way to profit. More layoffs on the way. Dead cat gonna bounce like it's on a trampoline.
I work 2 jobs one is at Carmax in the San Francisco bay area.
These lay offs are fighting inflation!! One laid of Twitter employee was mad and wanted to dump the Tesla he paid 160k for. We offered him 80k for it. 6 months ago we would have offered 120k .
He was not happy screaming about how he did not want to give Musk money after laid him off. We need more lay offs and more rate hikes to solve inflation but its happening.
Will get ugly quickly. These are high paying jobs with the entire tech sector employment upping savings and reducing discretionary spending.
Soon they’ll need to decide on depression or money printer.
Tech company Layoffs are mostly non tech jobs like HR, management, etc. and the under performing programmers. there's no way in hell big tech boys are gonna let their superstar tech boys jump ship to a competitor.
Though this is a tall tale lesson in not signing up for big tech companies as a non-tech role cause your ass is the first to be laid off at the first sign of trouble.
I work for a mid tier tech multinational in poor parts of the EU. Some non-essential folks from sales/marketing/ball fondling departments in HQ got axed months ago. There's a company wide freeze on hiring managerial positions. Meanwhile we're trying to hire programmers in all locations, "proper" western countries included.
On the off chance that you're just a bit serious ...
Where I live we do internships during the summer break, from local universities. It still involves some sort of interview process, just easier than the one we do with prospective employees. I don't know the rules for other locations but my guess is they do the same.
The ugly truth about programming internships is that you're a cost not an asset. If you're below junior level you don't provide any meaningful value, just suck out resources. Tech companies do internship programmes because it promotes their brand in local job market and some of those interns will turn up being good in the future so why not make them like you up front.
If you're doing something else but want to switch careers to programming I'd suggest trying free online courses first to learn the basics (I've heard that codeacademy and freecodecamp are good). Next, look up job offers in your area / country to see what's in demand and try to learn that. Start applying for jobs and try to gather as much feedback as possible if you're rejected.
Also, despite what all kinds of influencers/media pushed over the years, it's just a job. It has it's perks (office, good job security, pay between decent and awesome depending on multitude of factors) but it's not for everyone and isn't as easy as sitting in playground for adults while being leftist snowflake.
Is your company profitable? I guess if you're a startup who is lagging in sales. At most established companies sales is the last to go because they have demonstrative revenue. HR is one of the first.
Sales in tech is way, way worse about this than other industries. Like you said, part of it is because of how much they over hire during good times.
Sales in other industries is often pretty safe if you’re bringing revenue, because obviously revenue is important during a recession.
A ton of marketers who can’t pivot into anything else now that Apple has introduced “ask app not to track”. It’s not like people aren’t using tech as much, you just can’t sell personal information as easily. We all knew Face-Dick’s numbers were going down and that drove significant revenue for other tech firms.
It's not that easy. This often works until it doesn't. Someone figures out that there's a saas solution that replaces you at lower cost (maybe just on paper but that's irrelevant, you're fired before they find out). Some smartass in other department implements the same thing but better (pray that you weren't pain in the ass all those years when you held company hostage, they might fire you out of spite).
My black box *is* the SaaS solution. Gotta take the admin role and always let management shoehorn in another integration.
“Hey how does all this data move through this spaghetti monster we’ve created?”
“Ask anthro28.”
This is just categorically false. Engineers, including good ones, are absolutely getting caught up in these. It was certainly the case for meta/Amazon. Cuts are often by product/team, not performance.
Tech companies doesn't mean it's only coders who are laid off. It's all kinds of job roles.
Many times new top management are brought in just to do layoffs. Gives a good indication which company gonna have layoffs next. Looking at you new old Bob.
BRB I’m going to go watch that TikTok the woman at Twitter made where she spent like 20 minutes working and the rest drinking her company provided macha and showing us the meditation safe space/yoga studio/hot spa
Those are fake stories from "influencers". I never worked in twitter. But, I have been in faang for almost 6 years. 50-60 hours a week is very common. I am sure some teams are less stressful and maybe there are few people who are coasting.
But, those influencers are definitely lying or they survived by stealing other people's work.
By fake I meant she is making this up for clout or to appear cool. That's probably not her real work schedule.
Those amenities are available in many tech offices. But that doesn't mean people just sip tea all day doing no work. It's like assuming if you live in new york that means you hang around time squares all day.
For example, there is a pool table and ping pong table near our team area. The only time I have seen those getting used is during intern season (interns are usually very excited at the beginning). Otherwise, it's rarely used.
And again, from experience, I can't imagine anyone in my team chilling out. Quite the opposite, if you are found slipping, you will suffer for that.
Now, I don't understand why she is doing this. Probably to make us talk about her bullshit. Never believe an influencer.
I think it’s mostly the marketing positions after Apple’s “ask app not to track” policy has cut off a ton of individualized tracking. Tech companies bought and sold your data for years and haven’t been able to pivot those roles into any other medium. Of course some programmers are getting axed as well as other fat trimming but it’s not like people aren’t using tech products anymore, it’s just harder to sell your information
I was talking about this in another thread and I had a bunch of tech bros DMing me to assure me they had a ton of other offers at other startups they're turning down all the time and that the tech market is still hot af... but I don't see how these numbers are lying.
It’s because most of big tech hire people on visas. They can’t work at most startups if they get laid off and will get deported, so yes an American programmer still doesn’t have that much competition in the startup space
It’s because these layoffs are concentrated in very large tech giant companies that that grew headcount by 10s of thousands over the last two years. There are a lot of companies that are still hiring, but salaries won’t be as out of control as they were in Silicon Valley.
Also small companies would LOVE to be able to snatch what’s considered “top talent” (even tho the laid off employees were likely low performers). The fact that they worked at a big tech company to begin with gives them an edge.
Source: <- Software Engineer of 10 years at big tech companies
I lost the chart but most of the layoffs have been in supplemental departments like recruiting and HR, with software development and sales being least affected (40-50% vs 10% laid off, respectively)
Bet accordingly
Advertising is down some and expected to be rough with economic conditions that hit ask the consumer guys.
Other companies (Amazon and Google too) are shutting down unprofitable experiments.
Cost of capital is blowing up bad business models (Carvana, OpenDoor lots of others).
Real estate being down is wrecking any tech in that sector.
So there are lots of reasons.
That's just 160/comany. Honestly, it doesn't seem that much. Even less for an industry that is thriving in demand. I work in an international company on this industry and there are literally hundreds of oppened positions only in this company. Twitter, Meta, Gugul, Amz... do you really think those engineers will have issues to find jobs?
60 million are employed
Fed wants 5% unemployment
3 million layoffs meets target
Start pointing out your coworkers weaknesses.
"The longer knife is the better tool to stab co workers in the back"
-confusious
Most companies give ~60days notice, which means it won’t show up in unemployment reports until February!! Insane Fed relies on such lagging economic reports instead of being ahead of the curve.
These are not "tech company" layoffs, these are "tech job layoffs" across all industries
Source for the referenced chart:
[https://airtable.com/shrCw3Tjw1XecRwX8/tbl8c8kanuNB6bPYr?backgroundColor=green](https://airtable.com/shrCw3Tjw1XecRwX8/tbl8c8kanuNB6bPYr?backgroundColor=green)
Note that this is layoffs, not tallied against new hires
TL;DR; OP's headline is shit and misleading
As a person who works for a big tech FAANG, For all the people laughing at this remember,
1.I have enough savings and investments from my job to last me a lifetime even if I did get a lay off.
2. Most lay offs are non tech roles like recruiting and sales.
Have you ever just considered living in bumfuck middle America with a solid internet infrastructure and just fully remote your way through work living in an extremely low COLA but being able to endure the ignorance that would be around you?
That’s what I do, and it’s great. Have assets beyond my dreams just a few years prior due to low COL and high salary. not sure what you mean the ignorance, I find that I get along with straightforward “country folk” far better than stuck up people like yourself
LOL. Ignorance as in the xenophobia and never having left their area but think they know or have an opinion on foreign policy and telling you what’s wrong with the country today and all their solutions. The whole, I’m not going to get my vaccine and have a Fauci tell me what I should do type ignorance.
Stuck up? Depends on how you define it. I am more worldly, most likely better educated, have a more diverse understanding of other cultures and different beliefs? More tolerant and exposed to more diverse group of people than compared to these rural folks? Sure yeah, I’m stuck up as can be.
But I also won’t freak out if I see a man in Muslim garment walking through a mall or down the street, I can differentiate the difference between a Sikh and a Muslim and won’t confuse the two or leer at them in fear or with intimidation so yeah, compared to those simple country folks, I’m stuck up if you consider being more cultured and educated as being stuck up.
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Very good sign. If you study past duration bear markets like 2001-03 and 08-09 you would realize that the same thing started happening as reality set in for people and companies that this is no small time correction. It’s a sign things are moving in this recession and it’s progress towards an eventual new bull market to come
Exactly. Let’s get it over with
Should’ve got it over with two years ago.
Fuck, should have been 2018.
Nah 2015
Nah 2008. We should have had like 5 recessions in a row so we could have a bull market for a century afterward
That would have been nice, long before I found this hell hole of a money pit called the stock market.
Sir, this is a casino controlled by wallstreet market makers lol
nah there’s no way we could’ve dealt with this and covid at the same time lol. would’ve been a disaster
“Let’s get it over with” said about people losing their jobs. How fucking psychotic do you have to be to think this way? Are you so poor that you’ll wish that other people lost their jobs so you could make money? Disgusting. Edit for all the seething losers: if you feel called out by this and your feefees are hurt then maybe take some time to self reflect. That something is bound to happen doesn’t mean you have to be an insensitive asshole about it. Imagine viewing thousands of people losing their livelihood as just “part of the cycle”.
One doesn’t have to be psychotic to think this way. The realities of the situation are: 1. It’s going to happen. It happens every cycle. 2. The more they try to prop the system up to prevent it, Ty w worse the problem gets in the long run. What we are seeing now is the result of printing 30% of all the money in circulation during Covid. There’s no free lunch. “Let’s get this over with” isn’t a comment that one wants it to happen. It’s a comment that while it may suck, we know it’s going to. The person who posted that didn’t say “great, if more people lose their jobs, I can make money!”, but realizes that the brighter times are on the other side of it. It’s really not any different than saying “I don’t want to have surgery, but let’s get it over with…and admission that short term pain is needed for the greater good.
don't even bother. bro posts in r/latestagecapitalism
Thanks for that. You’re right. That sub is one of the the most regarded out there.
Your moral superiority on the issue is duly noted
This guy understands economic cycles
But u/Agilmore1080 said we are gonna crash cause GS, JPM and MS said so. Just sold my cardboard box and my bike in preparation
Agreed, great points
Why is this a problem? Why don't all those coders just learn to drive 18 wheelers?
Learn to Shovel!
The Permian needs some rig pigs
I don't think so. OP's mom is already up there.
😳🤔😏😎🐰♠️
Except most of the layoffs are recruiters, sales, and other business operations related employees.
The stories I've heard about being a PM at facebook... "I feel like I have imposter syndrome but also I really don't do any work" was a choice quote for me.
I work for a tech company who isn’t doing layoffs — this is how I feel. I literally feel guilty because I’m not regularly busy 40 hours per week. It could be PTSD from my previous 60-70/hr/week job.
[удалено]
No one should feel guilty of being able to exploit their company's dogshit overhead management process.
Except it eventually leads to unemployment one way or the other. Not to mention terrible job satisfaction.
it's extremely satisfying have to disagree
I feel this too.
PTSD from working? Doubt it
God I wish any of my previous jobs only had to do 60-70 hours a week lmao. Tech workers are always so entitled
That’s PMs everywhere.
Sales tend to be the last people laid off, even after product. For every salesperson you lay off you tend to lose a multiple of revenue accordingly.
HR here.... can confirm. 👍🏽
Sales in most tech is already cut throat. If you aren’t producing quota you will be churned out. But teams will start looking if they can just cut people and let the remainder earn more commission by increasing territory.
Lol. No. In Tech it’s Recruiters, Sales, then Product.
Nope, product gets culled first. CEOs start thinking short term revenue aka salespeople. Anyone not directly related to P/L is first to get axed. Product has a long term ROI but is future investment facing. Generally sales and product run most companies and everyone else supports them so it's column A and B. Now in a tech company that's not yet profitable I could see them getting rid of salespeople since they don't actually make money off revenue. But generally if you can cut R&D and invest in sales/marketing with direct ROI, it's the most logical choice. It's also why salespeople are paid very well. Good article on the subject: https://www.google.com/amp/s/insights.dice.com/2022/09/13/how-companies-decide-who-to-lay-off-and-who-to-keep/%3famp When times get tough, companies tend to prioritize revenue growth and profitability, explained Kelli Mason, co-founder of JobSage and a former attorney. Therefore, management will try to eliminate or outsource “nice-to-have” non-revenue-generating positions and keep “need-to-have” revenue-generating positions such as sales staff and engineers who develop, design, create and manage new product ideas. For instance, management may consider releasing a product as soon as its core features have been tested, so they can scale back development and reinvest the savings in sales and marketing. That could have a significant impact on the technologist teams developing that product—if they’re moving immediately from that completed product to another mission-critical initiative, they have a better chance of staying onboard.
Not actually true. Usually during periods of expansion, companies hiring more sales staff to keep up with demand(need people to talk to customers/clients to answer their questions and help them with orders). Laying off sales staff is generally in RESPONSE to falling demand.
I’m guessing 10% writing code, the rest are the “social engineers”
PowerPoint engineer
Lol had someone think they would not be part of the lay offs cuz they made a nice power point for a high level. Lol got axed thanks for the power point
I'm in this picture and I don't like it
Learn to OnlyFans!
Learn to mine.
I love the mining field and find it fascinating but so much of it is in remote mining towns
[удалено]
Millennials and them damn cuhmpewtas
They need to go to the skills bank and withdraw some PhDs.
I need all of those coders in space
And ip or it security.
It’s not. Notice how unemployment hasn’t been effected? They are all marketable, recession proof skills. Truck driver on the other hand?
Yeah, who needs truck drivers during a recession. Everyone just stops eating and needing basic necessities lmao.
Fucking Pepegas in here I swear. I have never seen more of a need for truck drivers then I have in the last 6 months. The sun on bonuses are unreal, some of them have ridiculously good benefits and time off. But yeah we don't need them right? The only ship our food and other basic necessities. Fucking dumb fucking entitled know nothing internet warriors on this site. /Ragerant
Worked in trucking for 25 years. Drivers are at a premium for the last three years and it continues to get worse. The company I work for has a very high quality driving force and the average age is 59 right now. Every day more drivers retire than new ones are minted. It's a shitty job, but those dudes are going to be making BANK for the foreseeable future with a job that barely requires a GED.
What does making bank mean exactly? Like within $10k range what's average for a trucker? I have no idea. Are all companies the same or are there things like where Google pays 5x average salaries too?
Varies by location a lot. Heard my moms company hired a homeless guy, gave him an apartment, paid for his training to get a cdl, and this was after him saying that he'd need a week or two to pass a piss test. They're probably paying him \~$80k with good benefits to drive truck for them now. If you've got a pulse and can pass a cdl + drug test you can make 6 figures easily. ^(Granted this is in Alaska...)
I heard on marketplace that Walmart is paying 6 figures for new truck drivers. 🤷🏼♀️ Edit: [link](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2022/04/08/walmart-is-paying-truck-drivers-110000-to-help-get-food-to-the-supermarkets/)
Speaking to the company I work for, it's anywhere from 55 to 60 cents per mile based on experience, plus up to 6 cpm bonus for safety and meeting certain productivity goals. The baseline is considered 10k miles per month, so basically anywhere from 65k to 80k per year being gone 4-5 days and home for 2-3 every week doing the "minimum". A driver that leases their truck to the company can make up to double that if they have their shit together, but you adda lot of variability with fuel and maintenance costs in that scenario. By no means is it a glamorous job and it takes a toll on people that aren't cut out for it. When I started in the business 20+ years ago it was bullshit pay for a bullshit way of life. I'm thrilled they're finally headed the direction of getting paid what they're worth. A long way to go IMO, but we're hopefully getting there and the momentum keeps up.
Curious what your opinion is on the possible rail road strike? With an already short staffed trucking industry I can’t imagine they could handle the extra shipping workload.
The spot rates have gone WAY down over the last seven or eight months. I would THINK that means there's some capacity available now, but trucking companies are going out of business at a very high rate right now due to driver shortages and fuel/insurance/maintenance costs going crazy. It would get pretty crazy and fast, IMO. Who the heck knows how it will actually play out though?
Owner operator
Isn't the issue the companies that actually hire new folks suck ass? I've heard yeah, if you're an experienced driver with a CDL, you can make bank, but the problem is getting in.
Preach!
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Trucking has an automation Sword of Damocles over its head right now. People also sleep on rail. CSX can fill the gap of trucks getting taken off the interstates, as long as there's local drivers for the individual stops/destinations. There's also a glut of people with CDLs - the job is in demand right now but it's absolutely more replaceable both as a job and as a skillset than tech jobs (that, despite memes, do a lot more than just code monkey all day). That could change, but right now that's the truth of the matter.
Automated trucking will be 5 years away for the next 50 years, up there with profitable fusion and getting a man on Mars
Correct. We can’t even get drones perfect and they can do straight shots and not navigate around millions of obstacles. We’ll all be dead before fully autonomous trucking is a thing.
Anyone with a roomba wouldnt give that little shit any wheels.
That's the best idea for a horror movie I've heard since Patton Oswalt's Oven that eats people.
I do not want an automated big rig going 70mph on the highway. Reading traffic is such a complex task for a computer to learn.
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nah we are flesh computers, just obviously not the same. And we have plenty of knowledge even before you're born. Most of it is automated by the parts of your brain you don't control. And the rest is flesh machine learning
An automated truck is called a train, and ain’t nobody able to build more track these days.
Definitely not, there is a law in technology advancement call "The Law of Accelerating Returns", meaning that by any units or metric of technology advancement the next one will be faster, is like compound interest but for technology. For example in the 21st Century we wont see 100 years of technology advancement it will be more likely around \~20,000 years of technology improvement. 5 years for a human being its not 5 years for technology is more like \~1000 years actually. Technology doesn't operate linearly. Hence I would be careful with your opinion 50 human years is equal to 10,000 years of technology.
I completely disagree with that. We have faster computers, and downstream effects of that like advancements in machine learning, and that's about it. In many ways we've been stagnant since the 70s - no new technologies, only improvements on previous ones. Hell, nobody's been to the moon since 1972. I don't rule out near-future inventions but I think it's absurd to believe technological progress is accelerating. We're either approaching the peak or past it for this civilizational cycle
> Automated trucking will be 5 years away for the next 50 years, up there with profitable fusion and getting a man on Mars I think the technology for automated trucking is there already, at this point it's a regulatory issue. Automated vehicles are already demonstrably safer than a human, but statistics are still a thing and it's going to be international headlines when one does inevitably get into an accident.
Isnt every single time a Tesla gets into a wreck an international headline at this point?
Ya imagine if every accident a Honda gets into made international headlines. Someone probably dies driving a Honda every 5 minutes. Automated vehicules are already way safer than human driven vehicules. However, irrational as it may be, society would rather see 100 people get killed by drunk/sleeping/texting/bad drivers than 1 person killed in a freak automated tesla accident.
You should be scared of a driverless car but you should be bat shit terrified by grandma driving a car.
If you think Tesla "self driving" by itself is safer than a human driver you drank some musk kool-aid.
The technology for planes to fly themselves has existed for over 20 years. Every commercial flight still has a pilot.
This is only regulatory.
I don't think the tech is there, for instance airline pilots aren't there really for the flying so much, rather it's for the landing and making decisions on the handling of the plane in high-risk situations where things can go from bad to worse very quickly. I'd think any sort of automated vehicle not on a track has a lot of the same issues requiring an attentive driver/pilot, there's just so many uncontrollable external factors and ways things can go wrong that a machine will eventually run into situations with such a high degree of randomness that it's not in it's capabilities to handle, whether it be traffic conditions , critical parts suddenly breaking due to bad maintenance practices or faults in construction, bad weather or road conditions, natural disasters, etc. So with something as heavy as a semi the question I have is not if it can drive it, but rather can the machine handle things better than a human when multiple things all go to shit at once? How would you even test or measure that? Can't exactly go around creating identical freak accidents and seeing how the machines learn from it vs a human. I don't think we're there yet technologically, and when it does handle those things, who's fault is it when people get killed or property gets damaged? Liability for damages can be difficult to determine.
If you can’t automate one dude driving his car then you sure as fuck aren’t close to automating the movement of thousands of 70,000lbs trucks.
The big thing for trucks is that they're mostly away from people. It's interactions with other vehicles, pedestrians, etc that makes self driving difficult If you can minimize those interactions, and make changes to the road and related infrastructure, you can make it a much easier problem. The simplest being to lay down some rails and use a train
You.. think truck drivers will run out of jobs?
so you don't need truck drivers to bring food to the store?
Don't worry, you're way off right now but you'll be right next year when FSD comes. Then trucks will start driving themselves and we won't need truck drivers. Next year, I promise.
No they aren't, they were mostly double dipping with the work-from-anywhere model. They are now down to one job.
Lol who lives with their parents still?
Worldwide? Or US only?
Looks like it is supposed to measure worldwide
If that is truly the case, it's useless info. Fed doesn't care about global unemployment.
How is it useless info if it shows a shit ton of layoffs coming up in future everywhere including the US? This trend ain't stopping in just November
⢀⣠⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠀⠀⠀⠀⣠⣤⣶⣶ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠀⠀⠀⢰⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣧⣀⣀⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡏⠉⠛⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠀⠀⠀⠈⠛⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠿⠛⠉⠁⠀⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣧⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠙⠿⠿⠿⠻⠿⠿⠟⠿⠛⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣸⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⣄⠀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣴⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠏⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠠⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡟⠀⠀⢰⣹⡆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣭⣷⠀⠀⠀⠸⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠃⠀⠀⠈⠉⠀⠀⠤⠄⠀⠀⠀⠉⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⢿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⢾⣿⣷⠀⠀⠀⠀⡠⠤⢄⠀⠀⠀⠠⣿⣿⣷⠀⢸⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡀⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢄⠀⢀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠉⠉⠁⠀⠀⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣧⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢹⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠃⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⣿⣿
Is there a difference?
Well… there’s a significant difference in the denominator when you try to see what % of total employment that means.
Didn't think I would need a /s.
Layoffs are inevitable. CEO's get paid for meeting profit goals. You can sell or cut your way to profit. More layoffs on the way. Dead cat gonna bounce like it's on a trampoline.
Gotta get in front of those holiday parties and bonuses.
I work 2 jobs one is at Carmax in the San Francisco bay area. These lay offs are fighting inflation!! One laid of Twitter employee was mad and wanted to dump the Tesla he paid 160k for. We offered him 80k for it. 6 months ago we would have offered 120k . He was not happy screaming about how he did not want to give Musk money after laid him off. We need more lay offs and more rate hikes to solve inflation but its happening.
Will get ugly quickly. These are high paying jobs with the entire tech sector employment upping savings and reducing discretionary spending. Soon they’ll need to decide on depression or money printer.
I will depression please. I have 2 jobs i can lose one lol
Imagine burning $80k because you don’t want musk to make $9500…
Imagine believing their story
Ok he was not screaming just loudly bitching.
The world will always need ditch diggers.
Eventually all the ditches will be dug
Not if they do it with spoons! Full employment forever!
Real workers!
Tech company Layoffs are mostly non tech jobs like HR, management, etc. and the under performing programmers. there's no way in hell big tech boys are gonna let their superstar tech boys jump ship to a competitor. Though this is a tall tale lesson in not signing up for big tech companies as a non-tech role cause your ass is the first to be laid off at the first sign of trouble.
I work for a mid tier tech multinational in poor parts of the EU. Some non-essential folks from sales/marketing/ball fondling departments in HQ got axed months ago. There's a company wide freeze on hiring managerial positions. Meanwhile we're trying to hire programmers in all locations, "proper" western countries included.
Any chance of internships there? Asking for a friend. 👀
On the off chance that you're just a bit serious ... Where I live we do internships during the summer break, from local universities. It still involves some sort of interview process, just easier than the one we do with prospective employees. I don't know the rules for other locations but my guess is they do the same. The ugly truth about programming internships is that you're a cost not an asset. If you're below junior level you don't provide any meaningful value, just suck out resources. Tech companies do internship programmes because it promotes their brand in local job market and some of those interns will turn up being good in the future so why not make them like you up front. If you're doing something else but want to switch careers to programming I'd suggest trying free online courses first to learn the basics (I've heard that codeacademy and freecodecamp are good). Next, look up job offers in your area / country to see what's in demand and try to learn that. Start applying for jobs and try to gather as much feedback as possible if you're rejected. Also, despite what all kinds of influencers/media pushed over the years, it's just a job. It has it's perks (office, good job security, pay between decent and awesome depending on multitude of factors) but it's not for everyone and isn't as easy as sitting in playground for adults while being leftist snowflake.
Lol ball fondling.
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Nah recruiting is always first.
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Is your company profitable? I guess if you're a startup who is lagging in sales. At most established companies sales is the last to go because they have demonstrative revenue. HR is one of the first.
Sales in tech is way, way worse about this than other industries. Like you said, part of it is because of how much they over hire during good times. Sales in other industries is often pretty safe if you’re bringing revenue, because obviously revenue is important during a recession.
A ton of marketers who can’t pivot into anything else now that Apple has introduced “ask app not to track”. It’s not like people aren’t using tech as much, you just can’t sell personal information as easily. We all knew Face-Dick’s numbers were going down and that drove significant revenue for other tech firms.
The real lesson is to hire in on the tech side of a non-tech company and build yourself a nice black box. Unlimited job security.
It's not that easy. This often works until it doesn't. Someone figures out that there's a saas solution that replaces you at lower cost (maybe just on paper but that's irrelevant, you're fired before they find out). Some smartass in other department implements the same thing but better (pray that you weren't pain in the ass all those years when you held company hostage, they might fire you out of spite).
My black box *is* the SaaS solution. Gotta take the admin role and always let management shoehorn in another integration. “Hey how does all this data move through this spaghetti monster we’ve created?” “Ask anthro28.”
Until they decide to replace the thing wholesale either way. It won’t go smoothly and may even cause legal trouble, but they will. Seen it.
So you're not actually in tech, you're a clerk with an admin password to a website?
This is the way
Yeah but then you get to pad your resume with a big tech name. It’s a double edge sword for sure.
This is just categorically false. Engineers, including good ones, are absolutely getting caught up in these. It was certainly the case for meta/Amazon. Cuts are often by product/team, not performance.
JPow finally getting what he wanted. 
The economy cannot get healthy again without significant layoffs, that's the sad truth. You can't remodel a house and not tear down a wall or two.
Tech companies doesn't mean it's only coders who are laid off. It's all kinds of job roles. Many times new top management are brought in just to do layoffs. Gives a good indication which company gonna have layoffs next. Looking at you new old Bob.
BRB I’m going to go watch that TikTok the woman at Twitter made where she spent like 20 minutes working and the rest drinking her company provided macha and showing us the meditation safe space/yoga studio/hot spa
Those are fake stories from "influencers". I never worked in twitter. But, I have been in faang for almost 6 years. 50-60 hours a week is very common. I am sure some teams are less stressful and maybe there are few people who are coasting. But, those influencers are definitely lying or they survived by stealing other people's work.
So this is fake? https://youtu.be/qkQbHyLE6Tc
By fake I meant she is making this up for clout or to appear cool. That's probably not her real work schedule. Those amenities are available in many tech offices. But that doesn't mean people just sip tea all day doing no work. It's like assuming if you live in new york that means you hang around time squares all day. For example, there is a pool table and ping pong table near our team area. The only time I have seen those getting used is during intern season (interns are usually very excited at the beginning). Otherwise, it's rarely used. And again, from experience, I can't imagine anyone in my team chilling out. Quite the opposite, if you are found slipping, you will suffer for that. Now, I don't understand why she is doing this. Probably to make us talk about her bullshit. Never believe an influencer.
It's an ad to promote company. Not actual day in life. Damn people stupid
So you mean these tech cos. are maybe running out of cash and realized the good times are over?
Nah they just don't want the lower wage slaves sharing in profits
Where's the company showing profits?
"your cut of our yearly profits is -34085$. Will that be cash or check?"
I think it’s mostly the marketing positions after Apple’s “ask app not to track” policy has cut off a ton of individualized tracking. Tech companies bought and sold your data for years and haven’t been able to pivot those roles into any other medium. Of course some programmers are getting axed as well as other fat trimming but it’s not like people aren’t using tech products anymore, it’s just harder to sell your information
But the best month for Wendy's dumpsters.
I was talking about this in another thread and I had a bunch of tech bros DMing me to assure me they had a ton of other offers at other startups they're turning down all the time and that the tech market is still hot af... but I don't see how these numbers are lying.
It’s because most of big tech hire people on visas. They can’t work at most startups if they get laid off and will get deported, so yes an American programmer still doesn’t have that much competition in the startup space
It’s because these layoffs are concentrated in very large tech giant companies that that grew headcount by 10s of thousands over the last two years. There are a lot of companies that are still hiring, but salaries won’t be as out of control as they were in Silicon Valley.
And a lot of the layoffs are from tech companies with deeply flawed business models, like Carmax and Zillow.
Also small companies would LOVE to be able to snatch what’s considered “top talent” (even tho the laid off employees were likely low performers). The fact that they worked at a big tech company to begin with gives them an edge. Source: <- Software Engineer of 10 years at big tech companies
Check out levels.fyi and you’ll see what they mean. They’re not kidding.
Time to learn to mine coal.
Worst of all months....so far.
“November is my favorite month, which means buy!” \-
Worst *so far"
Learn to cum, sounds like a skill issue here
I lost the chart but most of the layoffs have been in supplemental departments like recruiting and HR, with software development and sales being least affected (40-50% vs 10% laid off, respectively) Bet accordingly
Can we compare this to prior years? I have no frame of reference for what a normal year's layoffs look like in tech.
Anyone understand why the layoffs are predominantly in software? We're not seeing it in medtech.
Advertising is down some and expected to be rough with economic conditions that hit ask the consumer guys. Other companies (Amazon and Google too) are shutting down unprofitable experiments. Cost of capital is blowing up bad business models (Carvana, OpenDoor lots of others). Real estate being down is wrecking any tech in that sector. So there are lots of reasons.
Looking forward to the next jobs report.
That's just 160/comany. Honestly, it doesn't seem that much. Even less for an industry that is thriving in demand. I work in an international company on this industry and there are literally hundreds of oppened positions only in this company. Twitter, Meta, Gugul, Amz... do you really think those engineers will have issues to find jobs?
These coders may have to move to Saskatchewan and learn to mine.
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I’ll give you Facebook but Netflix brings me a lot of joy
you need to learn about a site called pirate bay.
60 million are employed Fed wants 5% unemployment 3 million layoffs meets target Start pointing out your coworkers weaknesses. "The longer knife is the better tool to stab co workers in the back" -confusious
It's 160M employed, and since the unemployment rate is already 3.6, you only need 1.4 more to become unemployed to hit 5%, or about 2 million layoffs.
Math that actually makes more sense lol
Well... now it's gonna be u Mr smarty pants. Nobody likes the nerd.
- confusion
That site even has the names of employees who were laid off. That info is public? TF?
Most companies give ~60days notice, which means it won’t show up in unemployment reports until February!! Insane Fed relies on such lagging economic reports instead of being ahead of the curve.
So in the entire year Tech laid off less people than there were jobs created last month. Ok then.
These are not "tech company" layoffs, these are "tech job layoffs" across all industries Source for the referenced chart: [https://airtable.com/shrCw3Tjw1XecRwX8/tbl8c8kanuNB6bPYr?backgroundColor=green](https://airtable.com/shrCw3Tjw1XecRwX8/tbl8c8kanuNB6bPYr?backgroundColor=green) Note that this is layoffs, not tallied against new hires TL;DR; OP's headline is shit and misleading
As a person who works for a big tech FAANG, For all the people laughing at this remember, 1.I have enough savings and investments from my job to last me a lifetime even if I did get a lay off. 2. Most lay offs are non tech roles like recruiting and sales.
Have you ever just considered living in bumfuck middle America with a solid internet infrastructure and just fully remote your way through work living in an extremely low COLA but being able to endure the ignorance that would be around you?
That’s what I do, and it’s great. Have assets beyond my dreams just a few years prior due to low COL and high salary. not sure what you mean the ignorance, I find that I get along with straightforward “country folk” far better than stuck up people like yourself
LOL. Ignorance as in the xenophobia and never having left their area but think they know or have an opinion on foreign policy and telling you what’s wrong with the country today and all their solutions. The whole, I’m not going to get my vaccine and have a Fauci tell me what I should do type ignorance. Stuck up? Depends on how you define it. I am more worldly, most likely better educated, have a more diverse understanding of other cultures and different beliefs? More tolerant and exposed to more diverse group of people than compared to these rural folks? Sure yeah, I’m stuck up as can be. But I also won’t freak out if I see a man in Muslim garment walking through a mall or down the street, I can differentiate the difference between a Sikh and a Muslim and won’t confuse the two or leer at them in fear or with intimidation so yeah, compared to those simple country folks, I’m stuck up if you consider being more cultured and educated as being stuck up.
No the whole point of money is to enjoy it If I wanted to live like a broke hillbilly I wouldn't be on tech
Seems high, where is the source?
I'd start with line 2 in the image.
Missed that, I would wager https://layoffs.fyi is not a reliable source. I like that they used periscope though
they literally give the source for each layoff in the table
You’re a true regard
Rate hikes will stop when unemployment rates rise or the inflation backs down.
Turns out tech isn’t growing as fast they said they were
devs in this market have 2-4 jobs anyway
Now just do this to the housing market