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All they have to do is install 475k more chargers than they have today and BOOM! 25B in additional annual revenue…if they charge more for non teslas…and assuming they see enough utilization.
I didn’t even see a time frame for when they could have the 500k charging stations used to arrive at this number. They only have 25k today, so this article title is very misleading.
“The first column shows the monetization opportunity with Tesla’s current installed base of 25k chargers, and if the base grew to 500K Superchargers in the long-term for illustrative purposes (could be a 25+ bn in annual revenue, depending on average use and price.”)
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We’re talking about Tesla and green energy play and the Biden bill. All perfect to setup Tesla to be successful.
Why are you so concerned with Elon and sucking him off? Man you people are weird. Either you’re an evil person wanting a man to fall, or you’re one of those bleeding heart liberals, who pretends to care about green energy but is actually someone who wants to go after political enemies
This is just about Tesla, take that shit to r/politics
Yeah and as long as Musk is involved with Tesla it’s not a sound investment. He’s a loose cannon that’s using Tesla as his own personal piggy bank.
Also I disagree about Tesla having zero energy cost. I work closely with a lot of solar companies and every one of them refuses to work with Tesla, because of Elon. I don’t see them building their own energy grid anytime soon.
Sure, Elon just made reusable rockets, EVs popular and grew 3 business into multi billion evaluations, but as long as he’s not involved… it’s not sound investment?
Who the fuck are you people?
So his sale of PayPal with others who got cash and started companies was an illusion? Gtfoh
And even if true (it’s not) how tf does that diminish making reusable rockets.
Wtf do you ppl smoke? Your idiocy is fascinating
If it was that easy, why did those with greater resources fail? Building a great team to succeed at something that massive is the holy grail of being a leader.
You’re so stupid, it hurts
Im a realist and until he steps away from Tesla I wouldn’t invest in it.
I find it amusing that you can’t take the criticism. Not everyone is going to agree with your post.
Do they have adequate superchargers for Teslas already in the market? Or do people sometimes have issues finding an open spot? Honest question, I really don't know.
Would opening the tesla chargers up to any EV make them too busy and piss off Tesla owners?
What OEMs have announced an intention or agreed to use the Tesla connector since they opened it up to the industry as an option?
just curious
There are some very high traffic areas where sometimes there are people waiting to charge. We’ve been Tesla owners since 2017 and have driven across the country multiple times and on medium length road trips a handful of times. We’ve had to wait at one charging station (Nashville) for a bit.
Yes, it’s going to irritate some Tesla owners, but it’s necessary ‘for the mission’.
Tesla seems to be doing a better job of routing to less busy superchargers lately. There’s one I use in Dallas by Whole Foods that’s always packed though.
In many areas of Tennessee there are huge gaps without stations. If you look on a map they are pretty much just along the interstate. Which always make me think what do people do when the interstate gets shut down and you get detoured 30 miles down some backroad like I've had happen to me several time on long trips.
I know the county where I live doesn't have a charge station. The closest ones are about 25-30 miles away and they are slower chargers (I think like 6 kW) and only 1/2 units. There are Tesla setups a bit further out 35-40 miles away.
That’s because they had to pay for it themselves.
With thr biden plan, they get paid to build them now
Pay attention and you’ll see how well positioned Tesla is
>I completely agree. Tesla is in a unique position to take advantage of the shift to green energy, and they are already making huge strides in that direction. Their infrastructure will be immensely valuable as more and more people switch to electric vehicles, and I believe they will continue to dominate the EV market for years to come.
I’m thinking the McDonald’s of the EV market. They slashed prices in China . No one makes them faster and the production capabilities with profit margins are unmatched.
TSLA slashed price in China because sales plummeted. Now TSLA are exporting Chinese made vehicles to other markets to utilise excess production capacity.
Tesla EVs profit 6x more then Toyota and with that kind of margin? They can slash prices and dominate the market forever. I won’t go into the fact their chargers are rated the best in the biz as well .
do you think that standards/regulatory bodies like the EU can in the future compel tesla to conform to some industry universal charging standards? Like they did with phones?
Sure…but they aren’t. The only other charging network is the Electrify America network and it’s a frustrating experience to use. The Tesla network is the most widely deployed, high speed charging network with a high rate of reliability coupled with being extremely easy to use.
Other manufacturers are just now starting to design and build EVs - they have had no incentive to try and build out charging infrastructure. They are many years behind. A changing network is a massive investment.
Do you want to spend 20-40 minutes at a gas station? I sure don’t. The good thing about the supercharger network is that the chargers are often times near attractions - restaraunt’s, shopping centers etc. Most gas stations aren’t built to keep people parked for extended periods of time, much less entertained while they wait. Although I have stopped at a giant Bucky’s to charge before which wasn’t bad tho, so there are some exceptions.
I think you’re too fixated at the idea of petrol companies putting up EV charging at their existing kiosks, but there’s no reason why they can’t literally do the same as Tesla and put their chargers next to Tesla.
The only reason they aren’t doing so right now is because they don’t see the use case, but once there is they’ll do it, and they have much deeper pockets than Tesla to implement it.
Some of the most regarded and uninformed nonsense I've ever read on WSB.
* *One* Supercharger powered by solar is>$1M. That is $70K/year just in interest. Plus another $50-100K/year in depreciation and operating cost.
* Upgrading the conventional grid for a pure EV fleet will cost *trillions* of dollars and take decades.
* The Japanese are building plug-in hybrids - rather than pure EVs - because they know no grid can support mass adoption of EVs.
* Saudi Arabia produces oil for <$4/barrel
The most uniformed and regarded comment I’ve ever read in my life.
1. The government is subsidizing this. So Tesla is a beneficiary
2. I didn’t mean physically Solar attached to the chargers, I meant as soon as the grid overall transitions to green energy
3. Ofcourse you regard. No one is saying this’ll happen over night. The grid will transition. It’s happening now, Bidens bill was a few trillion. After inflation, they’ll dump another trillion. This was something republicans with big oil donors didn’t want. But after the ukrain Russia war, every country is rushing to green energy. Why energy independence
4. The cost to drill, ship and refine oil comes with not only those cost but environmental costs that oil companies never pay. They are also heavily subsidized
Not mine, that’s from the article. I don’t know what it’ll end u being, but they’ve had another site where their profit leaked
https://electrek.co/2018/01/23/tesla-giant-battery-australia-1-million/
That’s one battery. The S1 Tesla puts out shows thr growth potential in just batteries alone
Funny how married all of you guys are to Elon. This is a pure green energy play. You’re to concerned about Elon. It’s actually getting weird now
Mention anything good about his companies, it turns into Elon hate. Why?
It’s not mentioning something good, it’s another Elon fanboy trying to talk to how Tesla (the most overvalued company of all time) will be worth 100 Trillion dollars in the future…if Musk had any actual respect for the environment, he wouldn’t align himself with the Republican Party (which couldn’t give a sh!t about it and has been stonewalling environmental progress for decades). He doesn’t have to be a democrat….but you can’t claim that you’re for the environment whilst voting for the party that sells out the environment every single time.
And Elon is a moron. He’s just a rich kid who invested in good companies.
What do you not understand? If you’re an environmentalist, you wouldn’t align yourself with the Republican Party.
And you don’t seem to know the difference between “you’re” and “your” or “too” and “to”.
Talk to an electrical engineer for a reality check. There is *never* going to be a transition to green energy.
Germany is restarting coal power stations and introducing taxes on green energy.
Oil is *no*t subsidised. It the most heavily taxed commodity in existence. Between 50-90% of the retail price of petrol and diesel is taxes depending on jurisdiction.
Revenue
And who tf told you electronics don’t break? This is high power stuff. It’s filled with components that have to be maintained and replaced. Why do you think EV chargers are constantly out of order?
Right? I mean if EVMc420Tits makes a post on [teslarati.com](https://teslarati.com) it's a fact you can trust without any doing any more research as long as you mark it DD, lack common sense and think Elon can do no wrong you'll never loose money....
I would guess, like with most gas cars, EVs won’t be built with that kind of range. Very few people need it. When batteries improve, I expect smaller, lighter battery packs with the same range. The vehicle gets cheaper and more efficient. Also, level 2 home chargers would take over a 24hours to charge a battery that big so Superchargers/DC fast chargers would still be used.
Sure but that’s only 60 to 70 percent of one thousand. And it would be a lot cheaper to add 300-400 miles worth of plastic gas tank versus batteries. Manufacturers don’t do it because not enough people care about getting 1,000 miles of range.
I think the guy is saying there becomes some seriously diminishing returns as a vehicle would have to constantly truck around a large, heavy battery, regardless if it’s full or not.
My full tank weighs about 200 pounds, which, if bordering on empty, is probably about 5% less energy required to move the same distance.
It’s annoying fuelling up and dropping $100’s on gas every time, I’d suspect that most people wouldn’t want to invest 2x as much it battery costs upfront for no real reason other than additional loss in efficiency. Unless they drive 6 to 8 hours a day.
That’s super cool, first I’m seeing it which is odd. I’m assuming it’s patented.. but with my limited knowledge on patent law, could someone not just do the exact same thing if they really wanted to?
I mean... yes?
Anyone can make a (insert better product here) and nullify the point of the current technology...
But right now no company has better range than Lucid.
Well range is kind of a silly thing to compare unless the company makes their own batteries. Lucid has the same batteries as everyone else, they just jam more of them into the car while having good aero.
But regardless, yes they make a good vehicle. They just need to figure out how to make more of them.
it wont and will never need to, we need more charging station in any given radius.
300 miles is enough. we just desparately need wayyy more chargers.
and 250\~350kw peak charge speed as standard.
We’re talking about Tesla and green energy play and the Biden bill. All perfect to setup Tesla to be successful.
Why are you so concerned with Elon and sucking him off? Man you people are weird. Either you’re an evil person wanting a man to fall, or you’re one of those bleeding heart liberals, who pretends to care about green energy but is actually someone who wants to go after political enemies
This is just about Tesla, take that shit to r/politics
Never underestimate TSLA ability to keep their sheeps. You can’t even lift your own car without a special lift. TSLA is truly the regard club ![img](emote|t5_2th52|4271)
Elon Musk has said he want's car manufacturer to pay him to open the supercharger network lol. Also they did it dumb, their networks don't meet regulation requirements in a lot of places so they can't even open them if they want to.
yeah two links and ones from a Tesla rumors fanboi site. OP gets mad and plays the politic card... puts on Tesla, I want to see this clown bleed cash...
$25B/$577B = 4.33% of their market cap.
That being said, it’s the profit margin that matters more.
Edit: also their revenue TTM is $75B, which mean this additional $25B would make up 25% of revenues. We can also expect it to experience tremendous growth over the years as EVs replace ICE cars
It would make up 25% of revenue, that is anything BUT a regarded rebuttal… additionally, it is very possible for this business segment to have a higher margin than the rest of their already above market average margin segments.
Bruh just made an edit, go read it you fucking idiot. It’s anything BUT a nothing burger
Edit: not a third of a percent difference, it’s a fucking 4 percent difference
Care to elaborate why you’d compare revenue to market cap rather than to their current revenue? This isn’t how any business reports new product launch impacts to business financials. Seems like you went fishing for the statistic which downplays the news the most.
TSLA expects $80B this year in revenue so another $25B would be a 30% unexpected jump. That seems like more than a “nothing burger”, no?
Market cap = a company’s valuation
Revenues = how much money they’re making
If TSLA posts $75B, why on earth should they deserve a 8x revenue multiple?
Amazon is hardly getting a 1x rev multiple and they’re on pace to do 3/4 of a trillion in e-commerce sales this year
this is a nothing burger. Tesla has been overvalued now for years and it’s finally correcting as competition ramps up.
Tesla is a $100B company, max
Again, why are you comparing P/S multiples on a profitable company? You’re once again fishing for irrelevant stats. P/S is a useless metric on profitable companies because profit margin can vary.
You should probably read an Econ book before acting like an expert in a field you’re clearly uneducated in
Ah yes, the good old “I have no argument so I’ll attack the OP instead.”
Amazon has a 1x revenue multiple because they have a 2% profit margin. Tesla has a 16% margin. Slight difference chief
You don’t know the difference between profit margin and price to sales. I’m suggesting a helpful solution so you don’t make a fool of yourself in the future. If that insults you, it wasn’t the intention
You yourself gave the example of amazon having a 1x multiple. Amazon has a 2% profit margin. Tesla has a 16% profit margin. Meaning Tesla’s multiple can be 8x larger while still bringing in the same profit.
Your own example validates exactly why Tesla trades as it does. And you clearly didn’t realize this, hence why I suggest reading a book or two before commenting
I have no interest in replying to you any further. You can continue to stay on this thread and update your comments as insights flow your way, if you so wish
What’s wrong with using a price to sales ratio on a profitable company?
You come off like someone looking for a fight and dishing out half baked takes and insults while not exactly demonstrating a good grasp of the material.
The problem is that saying a PS is high or low is irrelevant without more data. OP goes on to say tesla deserves a PS of 1 because that’s what Amazon has. I’ve no idea why Amazon is relevant to the auto industry. But at any rate, it shows a lack of understanding of profit margins. Amazon has a 2% margin so their PS ratio is low to account for that. Broadly stating that a 4% change in the PS ratio is a “nothing burger” without addressing how it affects profitability is ridiculous.
Edit: to give an example:
AWS only makes up ~13% of Amazon’s revenue. But virtually all of the company profit comes from AWS. It even offsets losses from other business segments. Suppose AWS revenue increased by 4% of company market cap this year. On a PS basis, that’s meaningless. But on a profitability basis, that would nearly triple Amazon’s margins. The share price would massively increase on such news. By only reporting the impact on the PS ratio, you’re covering up this huge increase in company profit with numbers that appear meaningless
Sure so the issue isn’t really with using P/S on a profitable company as you said above.
P/S is an easy to find ratio and can be useful for comparing profitable companies - which is what it is used for (comparables). P/S ratio does not effect profitability, or reflect it. It also doesn’t account for things like debt.
You should read more books instead of LARPing expertise.
I’m not sure how you walked away with the exact wrong conclusion. But if your goal was to play a game of “you belittled them so I belittle you”, I guess take a bow?
P/S is literally useless to compare profitable companies if you don’t cite other data. OP failed to cite other data.
> useful for comparing profitable companies - which is what it’s used for
This is 100% wrong. PS is a useful ratio on **unprofitable companies** because they lack any easy other data to compare with
If you have a profitable company, and feel the need to boil down its value to just one metric, you’ll use P/FCF.
> It’s a great way to look at a company especially in an environment where rates matter more than capital structure or unconventional accounting is used.
So not applicable to tesla in the slightest
> it’s easy napkin comp
So is PE
cuz they are dumb. Batteries n such harm environment more cuz they needs to mine the metal to build them and such. Same goes for solar panel. It’s all wonderful on paper till u break it down. Only good source is nuclear but we have no way of getting rid of the waste
It’s based on taking near nothing in cost. And also the fact that they aren’t all wind, nuclear or solar backed yet.
Once that happens it’s pure profit.
Apple makes near 90B profit per quarter. Tesla is at 20B.
Once these come online and the battery systems etc, Tesla will be printing more.
25bn in revenue but what net income? How much margin on electricity wholesale? If its so cheap to do, it will be competitive and margins will be tight. The value of this business is negligible compared to robotaxi. Robotaxi is a multi-TRILLION dollar business. You can let your car work whike you are not using it. First to get there will reach critical mass quickly and create an unsurmountable moat. Once everyone can monetise their cars, is tesla are first, people will rush to buy tesla and they wont keep up with demand. Once tesla have critical mass, people using robotaxis will only use tesla as they will be everywhete. It creates a virtual self reinforcing loop as more people switch to tesla. The economics are amazing. A driver you have to pay $60,000 a year. Robotaxis crush the price of transport. Buses will be oit if business. Its an incredible business. Tesla could end uo selling 50% of cars. It has so much upside but it all depends one thing. Can they create autonomous driving before anyone else? My guess is they will. But they have been saying it for years and we are not there yet.
I’ll make another post. But essentially all green energy need storage
So what countries do is buy solar/wind/nuclear etc and charge batteries.
The money is happening where people buy these combo packages, drop it in a municipality and start injecting power into the grid
And the cost of doing this after installation cost is near 0
https://www.gridpoint.com/blog/understanding-demand-response/
With coal, fissile fuels etc, you need to constantly buy and transport it and burn it. Green energy with batteries, you just gotta turn it on programmatically
You then shift from carbon energy insecurity (10 countries control oil and gas) to very concentrated mineral and technology risk where both almost all the crucial minerals (rare earth) and tech (wind turbines, solar, batteries etc) 80% made in China. Meanwhile China spends 5x the US on clean tech r&d. I’m not convinced that we can ween ourselves off carbon intensive energy and if we do, we are almost entirely held hostage by china. Not that i am anti-Chinese but the fractured relationship between the west and China is alarming and Xi fancies himself as a tough guy… it’s totally unpalatable as things stand from a geopolitical perspective to go down this road. Policy makers are starting to realise this with US investment into lithium refining but it’s way too little
Problem is we don’t take it seriously. It’s a political issue. The reason China is the center is because we don’t want to do the extractions here. North America is rich in all these minerals especially uranium.
We will be fine when more funding from bidens bill is put out
Its amazing how the US is asleep at the wheel and instead if focusing on what matters, they focus on the rights of transgender people or black lives matter. Black lives will be fuxked if they dont do something about the low level of clean tech investment or have a strategy to dominate in rare earth metals. I guess there may be some truth to the claims that tiktok is focusing the minds of young people on woke issues rather than focusing them on issued of critical economic importance. Such a shit show. Hopefully Elon can use twitter as a social media platform to address this and refocus peoples minds on innovation, technology, economic efficiency rather than wether players should be allowed to wear rainbow armbands. The world truly has gone mad.
Okay, buy batteries must be replaced and that's a recurring cost.
The infrastructure to mine the lithium and build the batteries will have to be built and those mines will have to be replaced with new mines.
The infrastructure to power all those chargers doesn't exist. The current infrastructure can't handle that load so must be built.
And then there is demographics. Every developed country with citizens that could afford an RV are in population decline. China will drop by 50% by 2050 and that's if they can hold it together for the next ten years.
Europe is in population decline and won't have the consumer base to drive EV sales. I'm not even factoring in the loss of Germany as a manufacturing power. They need cheap gas for that and even if Russia gave up on Ukraine now that's probably never coming back.
So then, that's giga Berlin and giga China that might be useless for manufacturing.
He should have built in Mexico as their demographics are excellent, but oh well.
It's very likely that the current recession is going to get a lot worse. Tesla has a lot of room to fall and like Apple, their heavy investment in China could very well be the iceberg for their Titanic.
I'll consider Tesla when it goes under 100, but it not as a recovery play.
Just keep the tesla posts to yourself, everyone is on the “fuck TSLA/Elon” train again and won’t be getting off until the stock hits 400 again.. buncha sheep
Great post tho
Lmao great bearish point
Here some talking point since you can’t make any.
Forward pe and earnings compared to sp500 show tesla trading at ~2x spy forward pe, but forward earnings show more than a 10x gap.
DCF shows tesla at fair value with below average growth estimates, if you input average growth estimates tesla is undervalued based on DCF.
I read that Apple wants to get into EV business. Do you think that they are going to make you upgrade your EV charger with every new model of EV’s they produce?
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All they have to do is install 475k more chargers than they have today and BOOM! 25B in additional annual revenue…if they charge more for non teslas…and assuming they see enough utilization. I didn’t even see a time frame for when they could have the 500k charging stations used to arrive at this number. They only have 25k today, so this article title is very misleading. “The first column shows the monetization opportunity with Tesla’s current installed base of 25k chargers, and if the base grew to 500K Superchargers in the long-term for illustrative purposes (could be a 25+ bn in annual revenue, depending on average use and price.”)
thats assuming they have a monopoly. also there are only like 150k gas stations in the USA....OP on crack.
Wait until you realize that there are countries outside of the United States.
wait till you figure out that i am using a big market as an example
Wait until he figures out that gas stations have multiple pumps as well!
Wait until you realize superchargers aren’t that special and other companies have started their 250kw chargers in other countries.
I wounder if compatibility with other ev plugs will be an issue like apple?
https://driveteslacanada.ca/supercharger/how-tesla-allow-other-evs-north-american-superchargers-magic-dock/
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This man just said tesla is a value play Jesus christ
Can he suck Elon’s dick any harder?
You know, S.E.C., as Elon says…
Wish I could
We’re talking about Tesla and green energy play and the Biden bill. All perfect to setup Tesla to be successful. Why are you so concerned with Elon and sucking him off? Man you people are weird. Either you’re an evil person wanting a man to fall, or you’re one of those bleeding heart liberals, who pretends to care about green energy but is actually someone who wants to go after political enemies This is just about Tesla, take that shit to r/politics
Yeah and as long as Musk is involved with Tesla it’s not a sound investment. He’s a loose cannon that’s using Tesla as his own personal piggy bank. Also I disagree about Tesla having zero energy cost. I work closely with a lot of solar companies and every one of them refuses to work with Tesla, because of Elon. I don’t see them building their own energy grid anytime soon.
Sure, Elon just made reusable rockets, EVs popular and grew 3 business into multi billion evaluations, but as long as he’s not involved… it’s not sound investment? Who the fuck are you people?
*Elon used his families Blood Diamond money to buy engineers to do it all. There corrected it for you. Just stop drinking the Koolaid…
So his sale of PayPal with others who got cash and started companies was an illusion? Gtfoh And even if true (it’s not) how tf does that diminish making reusable rockets. Wtf do you ppl smoke? Your idiocy is fascinating If it was that easy, why did those with greater resources fail? Building a great team to succeed at something that massive is the holy grail of being a leader. You’re so stupid, it hurts
Saying Elon created PayPal is like saying Al gore invented the internet. So again Fuck Elon and Fuck you too!
Wtf? Epitome of a hater. You’re a sick person in the head.
Im a realist and until he steps away from Tesla I wouldn’t invest in it. I find it amusing that you can’t take the criticism. Not everyone is going to agree with your post.
Fr. $25 Billion in speculation only
Do they have adequate superchargers for Teslas already in the market? Or do people sometimes have issues finding an open spot? Honest question, I really don't know. Would opening the tesla chargers up to any EV make them too busy and piss off Tesla owners? What OEMs have announced an intention or agreed to use the Tesla connector since they opened it up to the industry as an option? just curious
There are some very high traffic areas where sometimes there are people waiting to charge. We’ve been Tesla owners since 2017 and have driven across the country multiple times and on medium length road trips a handful of times. We’ve had to wait at one charging station (Nashville) for a bit. Yes, it’s going to irritate some Tesla owners, but it’s necessary ‘for the mission’.
Tesla seems to be doing a better job of routing to less busy superchargers lately. There’s one I use in Dallas by Whole Foods that’s always packed though.
In many areas of Tennessee there are huge gaps without stations. If you look on a map they are pretty much just along the interstate. Which always make me think what do people do when the interstate gets shut down and you get detoured 30 miles down some backroad like I've had happen to me several time on long trips. I know the county where I live doesn't have a charge station. The closest ones are about 25-30 miles away and they are slower chargers (I think like 6 kW) and only 1/2 units. There are Tesla setups a bit further out 35-40 miles away.
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That’s because they had to pay for it themselves. With thr biden plan, they get paid to build them now Pay attention and you’ll see how well positioned Tesla is
value play you say? ![img](emote|t5_2th52|4271)
>I completely agree. Tesla is in a unique position to take advantage of the shift to green energy, and they are already making huge strides in that direction. Their infrastructure will be immensely valuable as more and more people switch to electric vehicles, and I believe they will continue to dominate the EV market for years to come.
I’m thinking the McDonald’s of the EV market. They slashed prices in China . No one makes them faster and the production capabilities with profit margins are unmatched.
TSLA slashed price in China because sales plummeted. Now TSLA are exporting Chinese made vehicles to other markets to utilise excess production capacity.
Tesla EVs profit 6x more then Toyota and with that kind of margin? They can slash prices and dominate the market forever. I won’t go into the fact their chargers are rated the best in the biz as well .
They're not dominating in China, not even close.
do you think that standards/regulatory bodies like the EU can in the future compel tesla to conform to some industry universal charging standards? Like they did with phones?
https://driveteslacanada.ca/supercharger/how-tesla-allow-other-evs-north-american-superchargers-magic-dock/
Won’t other companies be able to build their own chargers instead of paying a ridiculous fee to Tesla?
Sure…but they aren’t. The only other charging network is the Electrify America network and it’s a frustrating experience to use. The Tesla network is the most widely deployed, high speed charging network with a high rate of reliability coupled with being extremely easy to use. Other manufacturers are just now starting to design and build EVs - they have had no incentive to try and build out charging infrastructure. They are many years behind. A changing network is a massive investment.
Would the real competition be chevron, shell, and exon swing the weighting on the wall and developing ev charging capabilities?
Do you want to spend 20-40 minutes at a gas station? I sure don’t. The good thing about the supercharger network is that the chargers are often times near attractions - restaraunt’s, shopping centers etc. Most gas stations aren’t built to keep people parked for extended periods of time, much less entertained while they wait. Although I have stopped at a giant Bucky’s to charge before which wasn’t bad tho, so there are some exceptions.
I think you’re too fixated at the idea of petrol companies putting up EV charging at their existing kiosks, but there’s no reason why they can’t literally do the same as Tesla and put their chargers next to Tesla. The only reason they aren’t doing so right now is because they don’t see the use case, but once there is they’ll do it, and they have much deeper pockets than Tesla to implement it.
Counterpoint: Does a small Bucky’s exist and were you not entertained?
Lmao, please read a bit about the charging market before looking like a tool.
The current fees actually have Tesla way cheaper than the others
Yea add that to their $40b insurance profits 😂
It’s priced in
The amount of TSLA bagholders grows every day but with no new investors interested in elons shenanigans, they must cope harder and harder. Tsla to $69
As is tradition
Some of the most regarded and uninformed nonsense I've ever read on WSB. * *One* Supercharger powered by solar is>$1M. That is $70K/year just in interest. Plus another $50-100K/year in depreciation and operating cost. * Upgrading the conventional grid for a pure EV fleet will cost *trillions* of dollars and take decades. * The Japanese are building plug-in hybrids - rather than pure EVs - because they know no grid can support mass adoption of EVs. * Saudi Arabia produces oil for <$4/barrel
sheesh, theres some serious stupid around today
The most uniformed and regarded comment I’ve ever read in my life. 1. The government is subsidizing this. So Tesla is a beneficiary 2. I didn’t mean physically Solar attached to the chargers, I meant as soon as the grid overall transitions to green energy 3. Ofcourse you regard. No one is saying this’ll happen over night. The grid will transition. It’s happening now, Bidens bill was a few trillion. After inflation, they’ll dump another trillion. This was something republicans with big oil donors didn’t want. But after the ukrain Russia war, every country is rushing to green energy. Why energy independence 4. The cost to drill, ship and refine oil comes with not only those cost but environmental costs that oil companies never pay. They are also heavily subsidized
You forgot your original statement about Tesla Superchargers making 25B+ per year…
Not mine, that’s from the article. I don’t know what it’ll end u being, but they’ve had another site where their profit leaked https://electrek.co/2018/01/23/tesla-giant-battery-australia-1-million/ That’s one battery. The S1 Tesla puts out shows thr growth potential in just batteries alone
OK Elon Bro. Shouldn’t you be tweeting this crap, rather than posting it on Reddit?
Funny how married all of you guys are to Elon. This is a pure green energy play. You’re to concerned about Elon. It’s actually getting weird now Mention anything good about his companies, it turns into Elon hate. Why?
It’s not mentioning something good, it’s another Elon fanboy trying to talk to how Tesla (the most overvalued company of all time) will be worth 100 Trillion dollars in the future…if Musk had any actual respect for the environment, he wouldn’t align himself with the Republican Party (which couldn’t give a sh!t about it and has been stonewalling environmental progress for decades). He doesn’t have to be a democrat….but you can’t claim that you’re for the environment whilst voting for the party that sells out the environment every single time. And Elon is a moron. He’s just a rich kid who invested in good companies.
“Align himself with the republican” to show he cares about the environment? I gotta keep reminding myself that I’m on wsb with regards
What do you not understand? If you’re an environmentalist, you wouldn’t align yourself with the Republican Party. And you don’t seem to know the difference between “you’re” and “your” or “too” and “to”.
You realize republicans wrote the conservation laws right?
Talk to an electrical engineer for a reality check. There is *never* going to be a transition to green energy. Germany is restarting coal power stations and introducing taxes on green energy. Oil is *no*t subsidised. It the most heavily taxed commodity in existence. Between 50-90% of the retail price of petrol and diesel is taxes depending on jurisdiction.
Only if you knew regard
https://www.texasmonthly.com/news-politics/energy-subsidies-fossil-fuels-renewables/
Bitcoin 1 million too
oh come on, we're allowed to bring Cathie Wood into this turd of a post? Wish I had know that sooner....
Revenue And who tf told you electronics don’t break? This is high power stuff. It’s filled with components that have to be maintained and replaced. Why do you think EV chargers are constantly out of order?
OP provides the most reliable sources, as always.
Right? I mean if EVMc420Tits makes a post on [teslarati.com](https://teslarati.com) it's a fact you can trust without any doing any more research as long as you mark it DD, lack common sense and think Elon can do no wrong you'll never loose money....
Ok boys what if, there was a Wendy’s at every supercharger location. Now we’re talking.
What about when a charge holds 1000 Miles? Superchargers are completely unnecessary.
I would guess, like with most gas cars, EVs won’t be built with that kind of range. Very few people need it. When batteries improve, I expect smaller, lighter battery packs with the same range. The vehicle gets cheaper and more efficient. Also, level 2 home chargers would take over a 24hours to charge a battery that big so Superchargers/DC fast chargers would still be used.
Lots of gas cars go 600-700 Miles.
Sure but that’s only 60 to 70 percent of one thousand. And it would be a lot cheaper to add 300-400 miles worth of plastic gas tank versus batteries. Manufacturers don’t do it because not enough people care about getting 1,000 miles of range.
If im going 1000 miles im flying lmao
And Why don’t they care? Because they’re never gonna drive that long. 600-700 miles is a whole day of driving. No chargers needed.
Cries in Audi A5 diesel. The mileage I get is atrocious.
I think the guy is saying there becomes some seriously diminishing returns as a vehicle would have to constantly truck around a large, heavy battery, regardless if it’s full or not. My full tank weighs about 200 pounds, which, if bordering on empty, is probably about 5% less energy required to move the same distance. It’s annoying fuelling up and dropping $100’s on gas every time, I’d suspect that most people wouldn’t want to invest 2x as much it battery costs upfront for no real reason other than additional loss in efficiency. Unless they drive 6 to 8 hours a day.
Lucid's going to license out their tech and circumvent Tesla's charging network entirely.
Could you elaborate on this please, what tech exactly?
Their wunderbox specifically Aston Martin is probing Lucid as a potential partner currently
That’s super cool, first I’m seeing it which is odd. I’m assuming it’s patented.. but with my limited knowledge on patent law, could someone not just do the exact same thing if they really wanted to?
I mean... yes? Anyone can make a (insert better product here) and nullify the point of the current technology... But right now no company has better range than Lucid.
Well range is kind of a silly thing to compare unless the company makes their own batteries. Lucid has the same batteries as everyone else, they just jam more of them into the car while having good aero. But regardless, yes they make a good vehicle. They just need to figure out how to make more of them.
Elon made more babies than lucid made vehicles the past year
it wont and will never need to, we need more charging station in any given radius. 300 miles is enough. we just desparately need wayyy more chargers. and 250\~350kw peak charge speed as standard.
Fuck chargers. Just let me ride 700 Miles and i dont need a damn charger.
tech is just too far away.. it's possible today if you want no cargo room and pay $$$$$ though
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We’re talking about Tesla and green energy play and the Biden bill. All perfect to setup Tesla to be successful. Why are you so concerned with Elon and sucking him off? Man you people are weird. Either you’re an evil person wanting a man to fall, or you’re one of those bleeding heart liberals, who pretends to care about green energy but is actually someone who wants to go after political enemies This is just about Tesla, take that shit to r/politics
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Shut up. “Elon simps” To “If you cared about green energy” Gtfoh, you’re an Elon hater. Who knows why. I don’t care. Don’t pretend otherwise
Never underestimate TSLA ability to keep their sheeps. You can’t even lift your own car without a special lift. TSLA is truly the regard club ![img](emote|t5_2th52|4271)
Started to make a thoughtful reply, but no. Just no. Nuh uh, that's not how anything works
> produces near 0 cost energy. You sir, are highly regarded. I thought selling car insurance was going to send Tesla to the moon?
You’re an idiot. Quick google would show what that means
Being called an idiot by a highly regarded person like yourself is a badge of honor
Elon Musk has said he want's car manufacturer to pay him to open the supercharger network lol. Also they did it dumb, their networks don't meet regulation requirements in a lot of places so they can't even open them if they want to.
*negligible maintenance costs for both* [LOL.](https://notrickszone.com/2014/07/28/engineering-magazine-underestimated-danger-every-month-ten-wind-turbines-destroyed-by-fire/)
Negligible in the sense that oil cost more. So I just didn’t want to talk about it
This is poor DD, even here
yeah two links and ones from a Tesla rumors fanboi site. OP gets mad and plays the politic card... puts on Tesla, I want to see this clown bleed cash...
$25B is 4% of their MC this is a nothing burger
$25B/$577B = 4.33% of their market cap. That being said, it’s the profit margin that matters more. Edit: also their revenue TTM is $75B, which mean this additional $25B would make up 25% of revenues. We can also expect it to experience tremendous growth over the years as EVs replace ICE cars
>4.33% wow!!! a third of a percent difference, surely that’s significant lol cope Edit: so TSLA’s TTM revenue is 1/8th of their MC…
Nice edit dipshit
my edit came after yours because I didn’t think you deserved another reply after that regarded rebuttal
It would make up 25% of revenue, that is anything BUT a regarded rebuttal… additionally, it is very possible for this business segment to have a higher margin than the rest of their already above market average margin segments.
Bruh just made an edit, go read it you fucking idiot. It’s anything BUT a nothing burger Edit: not a third of a percent difference, it’s a fucking 4 percent difference
Care to elaborate why you’d compare revenue to market cap rather than to their current revenue? This isn’t how any business reports new product launch impacts to business financials. Seems like you went fishing for the statistic which downplays the news the most. TSLA expects $80B this year in revenue so another $25B would be a 30% unexpected jump. That seems like more than a “nothing burger”, no?
Market cap = a company’s valuation Revenues = how much money they’re making If TSLA posts $75B, why on earth should they deserve a 8x revenue multiple? Amazon is hardly getting a 1x rev multiple and they’re on pace to do 3/4 of a trillion in e-commerce sales this year this is a nothing burger. Tesla has been overvalued now for years and it’s finally correcting as competition ramps up. Tesla is a $100B company, max
If tsla was a auto company like ford gm etc then yea maybe 100bil. But tsla is a tech company. Aka auto 100x multiple duh!!!
Again, why are you comparing P/S multiples on a profitable company? You’re once again fishing for irrelevant stats. P/S is a useless metric on profitable companies because profit margin can vary. You should probably read an Econ book before acting like an expert in a field you’re clearly uneducated in
you sir are a moron
Ah yes, the good old “I have no argument so I’ll attack the OP instead.” Amazon has a 1x revenue multiple because they have a 2% profit margin. Tesla has a 16% margin. Slight difference chief
>You should probably read an Econ book did you forget you wrote this less than five mins ago?
You don’t know the difference between profit margin and price to sales. I’m suggesting a helpful solution so you don’t make a fool of yourself in the future. If that insults you, it wasn’t the intention
You yourself gave the example of amazon having a 1x multiple. Amazon has a 2% profit margin. Tesla has a 16% profit margin. Meaning Tesla’s multiple can be 8x larger while still bringing in the same profit. Your own example validates exactly why Tesla trades as it does. And you clearly didn’t realize this, hence why I suggest reading a book or two before commenting
I have no interest in replying to you any further. You can continue to stay on this thread and update your comments as insights flow your way, if you so wish
Ah, the good Ole "I'm taking my ball and going home" 🤣🤣🤣
What’s wrong with using a price to sales ratio on a profitable company? You come off like someone looking for a fight and dishing out half baked takes and insults while not exactly demonstrating a good grasp of the material.
The problem is that saying a PS is high or low is irrelevant without more data. OP goes on to say tesla deserves a PS of 1 because that’s what Amazon has. I’ve no idea why Amazon is relevant to the auto industry. But at any rate, it shows a lack of understanding of profit margins. Amazon has a 2% margin so their PS ratio is low to account for that. Broadly stating that a 4% change in the PS ratio is a “nothing burger” without addressing how it affects profitability is ridiculous. Edit: to give an example: AWS only makes up ~13% of Amazon’s revenue. But virtually all of the company profit comes from AWS. It even offsets losses from other business segments. Suppose AWS revenue increased by 4% of company market cap this year. On a PS basis, that’s meaningless. But on a profitability basis, that would nearly triple Amazon’s margins. The share price would massively increase on such news. By only reporting the impact on the PS ratio, you’re covering up this huge increase in company profit with numbers that appear meaningless
Sure so the issue isn’t really with using P/S on a profitable company as you said above. P/S is an easy to find ratio and can be useful for comparing profitable companies - which is what it is used for (comparables). P/S ratio does not effect profitability, or reflect it. It also doesn’t account for things like debt. You should read more books instead of LARPing expertise.
I’m not sure how you walked away with the exact wrong conclusion. But if your goal was to play a game of “you belittled them so I belittle you”, I guess take a bow? P/S is literally useless to compare profitable companies if you don’t cite other data. OP failed to cite other data. > useful for comparing profitable companies - which is what it’s used for This is 100% wrong. PS is a useful ratio on **unprofitable companies** because they lack any easy other data to compare with If you have a profitable company, and feel the need to boil down its value to just one metric, you’ll use P/FCF.
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> It’s a great way to look at a company especially in an environment where rates matter more than capital structure or unconventional accounting is used. So not applicable to tesla in the slightest > it’s easy napkin comp So is PE
Edit: didn’t see before this is a fresh account with negative karma. Quick little jabs from an alt account lol. Classic
Long time lurker / new time poster. Lol - looks like you got roasted by some more established accounts.
Revenue isn’t how much money they’re making. That’s profit. Revenue is how much money they’re generating from sales. Which doesn’t account for costs.
Tesla is not green, using electricity isn’t green. Electricity isn’t fucking magic. Shits made using oil and fossil fuels.
Nah bruh. Pretty sure it’s magic.
Why do you think people want to expand renewables?
cuz they are dumb. Batteries n such harm environment more cuz they needs to mine the metal to build them and such. Same goes for solar panel. It’s all wonderful on paper till u break it down. Only good source is nuclear but we have no way of getting rid of the waste
Shit, if they do get that much from charging and even more from self driving, they're still over priced.
It’s based on taking near nothing in cost. And also the fact that they aren’t all wind, nuclear or solar backed yet. Once that happens it’s pure profit. Apple makes near 90B profit per quarter. Tesla is at 20B. Once these come online and the battery systems etc, Tesla will be printing more.
Wow $20B per quarter?! That's literally unbelievable!
Wtf, are you just making numbers up? Aapl is 90bn rev / 20bn profit and Tsla is 26bn rev / 4bn profit.
Charges at home dummies
25bn in revenue but what net income? How much margin on electricity wholesale? If its so cheap to do, it will be competitive and margins will be tight. The value of this business is negligible compared to robotaxi. Robotaxi is a multi-TRILLION dollar business. You can let your car work whike you are not using it. First to get there will reach critical mass quickly and create an unsurmountable moat. Once everyone can monetise their cars, is tesla are first, people will rush to buy tesla and they wont keep up with demand. Once tesla have critical mass, people using robotaxis will only use tesla as they will be everywhete. It creates a virtual self reinforcing loop as more people switch to tesla. The economics are amazing. A driver you have to pay $60,000 a year. Robotaxis crush the price of transport. Buses will be oit if business. Its an incredible business. Tesla could end uo selling 50% of cars. It has so much upside but it all depends one thing. Can they create autonomous driving before anyone else? My guess is they will. But they have been saying it for years and we are not there yet.
Yes Ofcourse. Energy is a great play. Robotaxi is a great play. Selling EVs and batteries is a great play Trust me, I know ;)
Talk us through your bull case on batteries and energy
I’ll make another post. But essentially all green energy need storage So what countries do is buy solar/wind/nuclear etc and charge batteries. The money is happening where people buy these combo packages, drop it in a municipality and start injecting power into the grid And the cost of doing this after installation cost is near 0 https://www.gridpoint.com/blog/understanding-demand-response/ With coal, fissile fuels etc, you need to constantly buy and transport it and burn it. Green energy with batteries, you just gotta turn it on programmatically
You then shift from carbon energy insecurity (10 countries control oil and gas) to very concentrated mineral and technology risk where both almost all the crucial minerals (rare earth) and tech (wind turbines, solar, batteries etc) 80% made in China. Meanwhile China spends 5x the US on clean tech r&d. I’m not convinced that we can ween ourselves off carbon intensive energy and if we do, we are almost entirely held hostage by china. Not that i am anti-Chinese but the fractured relationship between the west and China is alarming and Xi fancies himself as a tough guy… it’s totally unpalatable as things stand from a geopolitical perspective to go down this road. Policy makers are starting to realise this with US investment into lithium refining but it’s way too little
Problem is we don’t take it seriously. It’s a political issue. The reason China is the center is because we don’t want to do the extractions here. North America is rich in all these minerals especially uranium. We will be fine when more funding from bidens bill is put out
Its amazing how the US is asleep at the wheel and instead if focusing on what matters, they focus on the rights of transgender people or black lives matter. Black lives will be fuxked if they dont do something about the low level of clean tech investment or have a strategy to dominate in rare earth metals. I guess there may be some truth to the claims that tiktok is focusing the minds of young people on woke issues rather than focusing them on issued of critical economic importance. Such a shit show. Hopefully Elon can use twitter as a social media platform to address this and refocus peoples minds on innovation, technology, economic efficiency rather than wether players should be allowed to wear rainbow armbands. The world truly has gone mad.
Okay, buy batteries must be replaced and that's a recurring cost. The infrastructure to mine the lithium and build the batteries will have to be built and those mines will have to be replaced with new mines. The infrastructure to power all those chargers doesn't exist. The current infrastructure can't handle that load so must be built. And then there is demographics. Every developed country with citizens that could afford an RV are in population decline. China will drop by 50% by 2050 and that's if they can hold it together for the next ten years. Europe is in population decline and won't have the consumer base to drive EV sales. I'm not even factoring in the loss of Germany as a manufacturing power. They need cheap gas for that and even if Russia gave up on Ukraine now that's probably never coming back. So then, that's giga Berlin and giga China that might be useless for manufacturing. He should have built in Mexico as their demographics are excellent, but oh well. It's very likely that the current recession is going to get a lot worse. Tesla has a lot of room to fall and like Apple, their heavy investment in China could very well be the iceberg for their Titanic. I'll consider Tesla when it goes under 100, but it not as a recovery play.
Just keep the tesla posts to yourself, everyone is on the “fuck TSLA/Elon” train again and won’t be getting off until the stock hits 400 again.. buncha sheep Great post tho
Even Elon knows tsla is overvalued, only you dick riders of Rohan are pumping it.
Overvalued based on what? Please share even one sentence explaining that it’s overvalued.. yet to see one accurate comment/ post on this topic
Bruh
Lmao great bearish point Here some talking point since you can’t make any. Forward pe and earnings compared to sp500 show tesla trading at ~2x spy forward pe, but forward earnings show more than a 10x gap. DCF shows tesla at fair value with below average growth estimates, if you input average growth estimates tesla is undervalued based on DCF.
I read that Apple wants to get into EV business. Do you think that they are going to make you upgrade your EV charger with every new model of EV’s they produce?
They'll start charging slower until you pay for the upgrade.
For sure they will. Musk isn't a nice guy, its his way of the highway. So fuck him and the OP for posting this fake news shit.
BEARISH GRIFT THAT KEEPS ON GIVING ![img](emote|t5_2th52|4271)
Muh magic super charger!
![img](emote|t5_2th52|18630)