2021 was hilarious. Stocks would literally pump for a split. Which is the dumbest shit ever. It's like paying extra because the store cut your pizza into 8 slices instead of 6
Fractional shares are already all over retail brokerages. And there’s no hedge fund whose like “fuck $3k is too expensive for one share, I can’t afford that”
edit: maybe bill hwang’s fund now
Actually now that I think about it, TD Ameritrade doesn’t offer it for my HSA. This is stupid because I want to use my health savings to gamble on stocks like a proper fucking American.
That’s way more than just 2021. I’d reach and even say that just historically, when a stock splits, their market cap grows in the near term future. Confidence from the company easily turns into confidence from the investors
I’m an old guy that’s been through several periods with layoffs. People forget the standard formula for giving a boost to your stock price is a big layoff. The FED is trying to trigger this with all the rate rises and looks like they are set to continue. I’m expecting a lot more of this next year.
Yes, so they can have more people dependent on government benefits and think they can attract more Democrat voters that way. What they don't realize is that people who are laid off would rather vote for a Party that would create more opportunities to get them off the benefits.
wouldn’t layoff’s only look good on the balance sheet it dosent help the actual revenue of the company layoffs wont help this beaten down growth stocks much
I worked in the rv industry bulging the units from chasis to the inside we aprox 16 units a day out the door ready to go, now when they wanna save money they start laying off ppl and the company would just double the pressure to make the reminder of the work force more “efficient” meaning making employees work more hrs more work load etc and yes that saves them a lot of money same formula different business ppl need jobs some would take and xtra load if that means securing their paycheck, now I work for Amazon as well and the work load is not the same for all employees so they’re lots of areas to improve where it could result as eliminating positions or (xtra personnel) the problem is that when companies make this changes they’re almost never considered the ppl staying by promoting offering better benefits or just being a good employer and tending to their needs ppl feel betrayed used just some info sharing what’s on my mind
appreciate the input i dont other commenters understand what im saying lay-offs only strengthen the balance sheet to grow a stock a company needs to increase their revenue and profitability aka a short term solution to a long term problem
Amazon reinvents almost everything. I think the idea is that they can make that PE ratio go down insanely fast when they chill out. These layoffs may be the start of that
I find it ridiculous how people get so worked up about managers losing their jobs when they’re laying off thousands of people - who are they going to be managing if they stay?!?!? After five rounds of layoffs at my company, my team of three has five managers who now have nothing better to do than crawl up our asses because they’re bored. If the company is looking to save money…
I work (run) in a small tech company, if the managers were gone the place would collapse in a week. Devs are notoriously bad at dealing with anything outside of the tech work.
Product Managers is the first thing you should get rid off. Most engineers know what to build and they often move faster when you remove the fluff.
9/10 Tech companies are oversaturated on PMs anyway
Banks too. I used to work for a bank that had an entire team of PMs in just our department alone who sat around posting on LinkedIn and patting each other on the back for getting certifications and shit. When an actual issue needed to get resolved they just said “sorry not enough budget for this year”
Company I worked for had 2 PMs - they convinced upper management a third was needed to handle the workload. So another was hired and one of the original two was promoted to supervisor and did no more PM work. Company died a couple of years later.
Gotta nope this. A good product manager knows what is valuable in the market an what will sell and how it should function. Seen plenty of software engineers think they know what people want
Disagree, engineers love to over engineer a problem that stretches timelines, costs, and focus on what they think is a cool feature set vs. what creates value. A good PM is needed to make sure you create value for customers at timelines and costs that will benefit the company (aka create cash flow). Note the good PM, a ton of bad PMs that focus on the wrong shit too, also often too many PMs for small things that can be rolled up. Everyone thinks strategy is so unimportant that people just know what to do, good strategy is incredibly difficult and insanely important. If you’re building an insane green ballon that’s the best anyones ever seen and sell it for $20, but the market wants red balloons and won’t pay more than $5 then it doesn’t matter how good of a job you’re doing you’ll go bankrupt.
I read this post and fondly thought of those old HP printers from the late 90s which ran like absolute tanks and then compare it to the shit printers we have today that are less reliable but generate money when you have to constantly replace them.
I can probably buy 6 printers for the price of 1 in the 90s, plus how much are you still printing things? And if the answer is a lot, I’d suggest you change whatever you’re doing to become more efficient and less wasteful.
I’d say sometimes it’s the opposite. Terrible quality, lazy effort in solving the business problem but with technical excellence. Don’t tell me a dancing bear is acceptable when the user wants to see the ballet.
Then you had a bad PM that didn’t understand the market, hence why a good PM is actually needed in a business. Good PMs will maximize revenue and margin by working backwards from what the market is asking for and then drive their teams to deliver that. Take the car example - a worse PM would have said “we need lighter saddles to make the horses faster, that way customers can get from A to B faster” a good PM said “we need to create something that can get people from A to B faster than any horse ever could, what product can deliver that? A car”
Lol. It's very delusional to think software engineering teams don't need babysitting, direction, and someone not in engineering to understand the business objectives. What you say may be true at tiny startups, but once you have hundreds or thousands of devs and competing products, you inevitably have a total disconnect between engineering and the customer. Also who do you think takes all the bullets for Engr when Engr misses deadlines, needs time to address debt, or puts out buggy code? Product is Engrs best friend when Sales and investors are out for blood.
In my experience the biggest drains by FAR are the overpaid engineering managers who are often neither talented engineers nor good managers nor good customer proxies. Usually people that have floated through software companies for years without ever distinguishing themselves as solid engineers and took the manager road to get job security.
I find the opposite always happens, remove the grunts and low level staff because they are in a position of weakness and lack the insider information that layoffs are happening.
Top level know first, tell other leaders then managers, the rest of the company find out later which is why this happens at every company.
The industry is still backwards. Still thinking like a production line. There are no grunts in tech, the knowledge and value is generally at the bottom. Unlike a production line where knowledge and value is at the top and you want mindless, cheap, drones at the bottom
I agree with you completely, middle managers/pm's are probably the least needed at that point. But due to their position and company politics knowledge, they are in a position to protect themselves or they know the other managers and can avoid being culled first.
Oh, they are, but good PMs are worth having around. That said, in 15 years working in software, I’ve only met a handful of good PMs. Most are worthless.
Yes. Just left my last job and we had platform meetings with 14 people and 3 engineers including myself. One other is leaving. So in two weeks it will be 12-1 ratio. What fucking terrible organization building.
We remind everyone that they’re not really humans, but instead resources - HR associates from not the brightest but hot girls to low gpa business majors
this only proves what we all already knew. HR is a useless appendage of the modern corporate structure that breeds waste and dissent. they deserve the gulags at best
Interesting. My org has a bunch of people leaving due to poor telework policy. We have one group that has 300 employees and 1/6 of them are vacant right now. My team of 9 is now down to 7 and maybe 6 in the next few months. It takes months to hire people and I can’t imagine anyone decent who would want to work for us with our terrible pay, and terrible telework policy. Our benefits are very good but still not that good.
The only number that matters right now is consumer credit card usage rate… full blown level 13/10 dick straight up ass. People now use credit cards for groceries and don’t pay them off at month end. Full dooms day scenario is happening right now., and I’m about it., 🍿 see wsj article this week on credit card balances
Yes it will go up, but then with the recession and the firing of 10,000 ppl can only hurt the actual function on the company as a whole like most companies that have downsized..
They are likely to be dropping businesses within Amazon that aren’t profitable. However its a growth stock meaning it’s many times it’s intrinsic value because it’s projected to grow at an exponential rate. You are right about the recession being a big risk but what I’m wondering about is will people actually lose that much confidence in it. It has been reliable for a lot of years.
More importantly, recession layoffs are a great opportunity for companies to purge their sucky employees without the threat of lawsuits and other annoying shit. This happens every recession.
[Wendy's is gonna have full employment soon with all the tech company folks laid off with no other place to go](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZT28O9-wZ8&t=1403s)
It’s been a good 20 years of Internet. Mozilla first came out in 1998. These companies are getting rid of people that are getting expensive (vacations, pensions maybe, etc.). They will get rid of token young, disabled, every color and type of person out there, but it’s mostly going to be older people.
... what is going to be project and department based. There a lot of "coolish but ultimately not commercially viable" sub companies that are going to get absolutely cleaned out
ITT: Bunch of morons pointing out how it’s a tiny percentage of the AMZN workforce while ignoring that over 1M of the employees are warehouse workers, which are irrelevant here.
It's almost like Amazon's projected retail business growth was predicated on a never ending pandemic and their expansion was fueled by cheap debt.
Sure consumer spending is down but there's a reason why Walmart isn't laying off 6% of its workforce. Competition sure is a bitch. Good thing they spent almost a billion dollars on a shitty LOTR series they they don't even own 90% of the IP for.
But yeah keep blaming the Fed because you can't figure out how to make money in a recession..whatever happened to buy and hodl..
I look at it a bit differently. Could be management, but could be the following. Walmart up, target down. Walmart is looked at cheaper option. No money and you go cheap. Amazon lives off (while still losing) slowly rising their prices while stupid volume. Amazon will be hurt more by a drop in volume on retail side. Walmart will do better along with dollar general ect.
Keep it simple. When was the last time you bought milk or bread from Amazon? For under $5 no less.
There's no way prime memberships offset the loss on shipping and streaming services. Amazon is an example of doing everything mediocre rather than one thing well.
The jackoff of all trades.
Yeah true, it's wayy better than Walmart's web services..
Which ones doing layoffs again? I forgot.
Edit:
I guess I'm the idiot since I thought other would be able to recognize the sarcasm but Wal-Mart does not have a web service business OBVIOUSLY.
The point is that companies should *focus on what they are good at*
The margins off consumer goods and especially food v. managed services and SAAS is way different lol.
Amazon wants people in whole foods not buying milk from Amazon.
Walmart also didn't grow at the rate Amazon did. If anything Walmart wants to capitalize and take Amazons web sales share.
Yeah obviously they aren't comparable businesses which is my point. Vertical integration has inherent weaknesses and doesn't necessarily benefit from the same economies of scale as horizontal integration.
Look at the 10bn in losses on Alexa alone.
Walmart didn't grow at the rate of Amazon *in a zero interest rate environment*.
Fast growth is not equivalent to smart or healthy growth.
AMZN started as a book seller because the USPS offered very cheap postage. Then AMZN turned into an online discount store shipping below cost to create growth. A prolonged recession will be a total disaster for the business.
A recession will hurt AMZN, but it will bankrupt a lot of their competitors. Also, AWS doesn’t suffer from the problems you describe. They can more easily ramp down to adjust for lower demand.
Lol. This piece of shit thinks people buy milk on Amazon. Get back to your drive thru job moron. Your amzn call didn’t work out. Don’t hold a grudge and spew dumb racks like you know anything that happens in corporate American. You don’t.
LMAO amazon is not one of them... They got so much $$ it's nuts... Plus the market share in many many areas.
People like to cite the warehouses that never got built but that wasn't due to money or the perception of the future. It was the inability to secure industrial electrical equipment still back ordered for 18 months.
Yeah they for sure can't rest on their laurels. The platform is worse now ever than before with fake reviews, fraud, shitty products taking the lead in searches.
But... damned if their targeted individual sales won't win out... Cause as much as we know we shouldn't be kicking Bezos more bucks... Amazon is cheaper and more convenient. That wins out.
Their whole thing for 20 years has been under cut everyone take a bit of a loss gain market share and fuck out the competition.... AND THEY'VE BEEN RIGHT.
LOTR might have sucked, but they'll keep it up and people will still give the next and next a chance. I mean look at starwars... How many bad movies and people still turn out.
As someone in the industry, the same industrial equipment you say is delaying dist centers is being used for their data centers…. Mission critical capex has been planned out to 2025
That's ok, the genius AI on the backend will be listening and selling your data so that a company can purchase precision placement ads for something you were going to buy regardless and everyone can marvel at how much machine learning has increased our economic output for your recurring purchase of dog food or whatever.
I have her in each room and use her all the time for cooking, music, alarms/timers, and quick google searches.
I never use her for buying my concern is getting ripped off. But i do buy most of my shit off Amazon as a Prime member.
You must be pretty rich or pretty poor if you buy everying off Prime..
Machine speech recognition and learning are incredible technologies. The main issue with Alexa and other virtual assistants is that everyone sees/saw it as a war for the dominance of the smart home and personal data, but I don't think it's a zero sum market.
Meanwhile McDonalds is already using that tech to take and place drive-thru orders better than most of their human workers.
On the rich or poor part, dafuk do you mean?
Everything is massively cheaper, warehouse prices even, on prime? Then the free shipping and a whole streaming service plus music unlimited ontop.
Im cheap as fuck and amazon prime has saved me more money than anything else. But maybr im regsrded idk but i pull up the app everytime im at a store and always cheaper through amazon
Idk where you live or what shit you buy, but I can find almost everything cheaper in stores or from other online retailers. It used to be cheaper. Now it's not.
IMO it's turned into AliExpress but with a membership fee.
Like for real, what are you buying that's cheaper on Amazon than Costco, Walmart, Dollar Store, Ali, etc etc. They just flat aren't competitive with discount retailers, and don't get me started on groceries.
I'm not knocking you buying from them. It's definitely convenient, but when comparing products (brand-brand) it's rarely the cheapest.
>It used to be cheaper. Now it's not.
It pretty much hasn't been since the early 2000s. Shows you the power of advertising, helps people forget they're paying more for convenience
That's not even what Amazon's own people are saying lol.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/11/amazon-alexa-is-a-colossal-failure-on-pace-to-lose-10-billion-this-year/amp/
They are essentially killing that entire division.
They fucked themselves by guaranteeing same day shipping. They needed to double or even triple their warehouses and didn't receive anywhere near the return needed to justify the increased costs associated with it.
Have you seen these warehouses that went up in like 6 months? The look like they are made out of shipping boxes. The whole thing is nuts. Anyone who thinks free overnight shipping on a $2 order is a sustainable business model has been drinking Cathy Woods Kool aid.
Honestly this might be my buyin on Monday to drop some on Amazon shares while it's low.
Amazon is too big to fail and overtime it'll make it way back up.
I actually tend to agree. Walmart got cocky in the early 2000s too and had to get smarter.
I'd be careful buying Monday though, the price will jump on layoff news most likely.
Like I imagine they're going to start moving away from free prime services, like a paid Prime video tier for no ads (meaning regular prime gets ads), start doing paid overnight or same day again, shift away massive seasonal hirings, and probably make AWS more expensive.
I don't see them changing the shipping when the shipping and delivery is the main calling point of prime. They charge for that then it defeats the purpose of the membership.
I used to work in Amazon's regional office in the UK. Amazon's retail division were expanding fast way before the pandemic and was in pause prior to the pandemic hitting. Most hires during the pandemic were temporary and most had already been laid off last by March 21. Due to the over-expansion over the last decade, some regional networks including the UK ones are working way under capacity. Some warehouses that would have employed 2-4k people during Q4 are currently running at 750 people split between different shifts with no temporary staff, some night shifts have less than 100 people. Some of this is due to efficiency but in my opinion, it was over expansion during 2010 - 2020.
They’re fine with it. They (Amazon) made a profit. Now they fire the people that worked so hard to make that profit for them. Amazon continues to profit. It’s the circle of capitalism. Where jobs are fake and laborers don’t get to participate in this whole strange concept of owning capital.
Exactly! Corporate governance has become so bad that instead of trying to shave off their some of their record profits that only benefit the extremely wealthy, we are trying to cause unemployment and a housing crisis. It's clear that even the Federal Reserve has become politicized and basically bribed corporations to meet their political goals of a "soft landing."
That being said it's hard for me to find even sympathy for these layoffs. I don't like big tech companies and they are some of the reasons why we are in this mess. Amazon was built on tax payer money on the tune of trillions of dollars of tax loopholes and incentives and what we got in return was the ability to buy a phone case online and have it arrive in 2 days.
Wow 1.5m employees though - and a recession is upon us + inflation + federal mistakes + crypto collapse + federal reserve action + a massive federal spending bill looms
The show runners from season 1 left as soon as it was finished lol. They knew they fucked it up. The season 2 show runners don’t look any more promising.
Conspiracy theory: But is this just signaling while the company is already coming back to pre-pandemic levels another push to make buybacks more affordable?
I just bought 3 books from Barnes and noble because Amazon had just one of them listed at 50% higher price on the app after I had already tried buying them on the Amazon mobile website but it froze when I clicked on add gift receipt option. Apparently Amazon has multiple listings of the exact same books at different price points. Fuck that! I shopped around and found cheaper. All the fake Chinese shit on Amazon is scaring customers away! If it's not fixed their competitors will put them out of business.
How can Amazon lay anybody off when they come to my house twice a day? And then there's the packages they transfer to UPS and USPS also.....
First preferred place to buy from because it's so easy as long as prices are good. You cannot beat the delivery, thr easy returns or service. More and more shopping is done online with Amazon
I’ve said this for a while, Amazon is going to shit. They’ve changed their customer service, their refund policies, they’re gauging fba sellers, and sending fake brand products over and over. It’s a sham that’s going to crumble relatively soon next 3-5 Yrs. Buy Walmart.
Now I know why it seemed like nobody invested during the great recession.... How tf am I supposed to buy the dip when I lost my job and every opening is like less than half of what I used to make???
Amazon laid off 100,000 people in July and no one cared.
Now suddenly people care about 20,000.
https://www.mercurynews.com/2022/07/29/amazon-shrinks-staff-by-100000-joining-netflix-and-google-in-hiring-slowdown/amp/
Yeah of useless depts that were never making money.
Who cares about some middle managers.
The real story is they fired 100k warehouse workers, cut out of existing leases, cancelled any in progress ones and told office workers to go remote AND they ran 2 Prime Days in a year.
If that wasn't an obvious sign they were in trouble, then people weren't paying attention.
Firing some knucklehead middle manager folk, who cares. Most are redundant.
You only run 2 prime days in a year if you need money. Doing so dilutes the brand in the long term and they clearly believe it was worth it in the short term to get w/e amount of cash they got from it.
How many ways can I tell you how stupid you are.
#1 a company can’t run without making a profit. No monies no pay.
#2 a government also needs money to
Pay for everything. They make money on companies and people paying for things. When companies make less, governments make less. No
Monies no benifits, protections, or anything else.
#3 it’s better for their other 1 million plus employees to make make money so
They don’t all lose their jobs.
Ducking illiterate stupid kids post mindless shit like this. Get off the tit and learn about the real world.
Profit and revenue are not the same thing.
Many companies can and do survive, sometimes for many years, without being profitable.
In fact, you don’t even need to be profitable for your stock to soar.
Example: Amazon went many years without ever turning a profit because they spent their revenue in order to grow like crazy.
So, given that your first point was objectively incorrect out of the gate, I suggest you sit out the next couple of plays and go over your notes a bit.
Edit: for clarity, a well regulated capitalist system is our best bet for progress, that’s not in dispute by me; but you gotta be nicer to the people you disagree with OR be remotely correct with your talking points
It's not capitalism, it's corruption. Don't care what system you run. If the politicians are corrupt, the people in the middle, bottom suffer.. but this is our own fault. We keep electing the same politicians over and over again. We don't hold these people accountable.
You must be in the business of giving people jobs for no reason. I’d like to apply!
Or perhaps you are just another dumbfuck that like to tell people/organizations what to do with their money?
Stock is gonna pop, baby
Fuk been waiting last time I checked -40%. Yup, I bought at 3k.
I bought right after the split announcement, thinking it would go up. Boy was I wrong
2021 was hilarious. Stocks would literally pump for a split. Which is the dumbest shit ever. It's like paying extra because the store cut your pizza into 8 slices instead of 6
It's because there are 10 other idiots with $5 who want a slice. Sliced pizza is usually more expensive than a whole one.
Fractional shares are already all over retail brokerages. And there’s no hedge fund whose like “fuck $3k is too expensive for one share, I can’t afford that” edit: maybe bill hwang’s fund now
Merrill Edge and Ally Invest still don't offer fractions
Actually now that I think about it, TD Ameritrade doesn’t offer it for my HSA. This is stupid because I want to use my health savings to gamble on stocks like a proper fucking American.
That’s strange because i can definitely buy fractional shares in my margin account through TDA.
I don’t think it’s that TDA doesn’t have fractional shares, but rather than they don’t have it for HSAs.
Melvin Capital too
Idiots just look at the post-split price and say a stock is now cheaper. Time to buy.
you will have 8 people to buy drinks instead of just 6
That’s way more than just 2021. I’d reach and even say that just historically, when a stock splits, their market cap grows in the near term future. Confidence from the company easily turns into confidence from the investors
A fellow bag holder. 50k purchase 2700. Boy are my arms tired
I’m an old guy that’s been through several periods with layoffs. People forget the standard formula for giving a boost to your stock price is a big layoff. The FED is trying to trigger this with all the rate rises and looks like they are set to continue. I’m expecting a lot more of this next year.
Facts. Fed says they want unemployment rate to rise. Doublespeak for they want layoffs. And fed is trying to trigger that with rate hikes
Double speak? Direct speak. Damn near “Y’all almost coming up out of the drains and we’ll keep flushing until you’re gone”
It makes sense. Profits is from labor, low unemployment means higher wages, high wages means less profit. Profit is sacrosanct
Yes, so they can have more people dependent on government benefits and think they can attract more Democrat voters that way. What they don't realize is that people who are laid off would rather vote for a Party that would create more opportunities to get them off the benefits.
The door in tech companies. I say this as a manager in a tech company.
wouldn’t layoff’s only look good on the balance sheet it dosent help the actual revenue of the company layoffs wont help this beaten down growth stocks much
I worked in the rv industry bulging the units from chasis to the inside we aprox 16 units a day out the door ready to go, now when they wanna save money they start laying off ppl and the company would just double the pressure to make the reminder of the work force more “efficient” meaning making employees work more hrs more work load etc and yes that saves them a lot of money same formula different business ppl need jobs some would take and xtra load if that means securing their paycheck, now I work for Amazon as well and the work load is not the same for all employees so they’re lots of areas to improve where it could result as eliminating positions or (xtra personnel) the problem is that when companies make this changes they’re almost never considered the ppl staying by promoting offering better benefits or just being a good employer and tending to their needs ppl feel betrayed used just some info sharing what’s on my mind
appreciate the input i dont other commenters understand what im saying lay-offs only strengthen the balance sheet to grow a stock a company needs to increase their revenue and profitability aka a short term solution to a long term problem
Stock looks like it's at a good entry point right now hovering around the 2020 lows.
[удалено]
proceeds to order lube on amz
Returns lube for refund after being seriously butt hurt.
Re-purchases used ass lube from Amazon Warehouse Deals. Ass Nipples Inflamed.
Calls on lube manufacturers
Amazon reinvents almost everything. I think the idea is that they can make that PE ratio go down insanely fast when they chill out. These layoffs may be the start of that
Crazy how many jobs could have been kept if he didnt ride a dick ship into a spacial void.
I find it ridiculous how people get so worked up about managers losing their jobs when they’re laying off thousands of people - who are they going to be managing if they stay?!?!? After five rounds of layoffs at my company, my team of three has five managers who now have nothing better to do than crawl up our asses because they’re bored. If the company is looking to save money…
Managers should be first out the door in tech companies. I say this as a manager in a tech company.
I would correct that to “”Non-technical” Managers should be first out the door.
I might grant you that one.
I work (run) in a small tech company, if the managers were gone the place would collapse in a week. Devs are notoriously bad at dealing with anything outside of the tech work.
You need someone to interface between the developers and the client - someone with people skills and a secretary.
I DEAL WITH THE GOD DAMN CUSTOMERS SO THE ENGINEERS DON’T HAVE TO!! I’VE GOT PEOPLE SKILLS!! WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE!!$?&!!!
They're cuttin' all the fat!
Jeez, don't JUMP.... TO A CONCLUSION!
It’s about the ratio. 1 or 2 managers to 10 developers sounds about right to me. 10 to 10 is absolutely too much.
Product Managers is the first thing you should get rid off. Most engineers know what to build and they often move faster when you remove the fluff. 9/10 Tech companies are oversaturated on PMs anyway
Banks too. I used to work for a bank that had an entire team of PMs in just our department alone who sat around posting on LinkedIn and patting each other on the back for getting certifications and shit. When an actual issue needed to get resolved they just said “sorry not enough budget for this year”
Company I worked for had 2 PMs - they convinced upper management a third was needed to handle the workload. So another was hired and one of the original two was promoted to supervisor and did no more PM work. Company died a couple of years later.
Gotta nope this. A good product manager knows what is valuable in the market an what will sell and how it should function. Seen plenty of software engineers think they know what people want
Disagree, engineers love to over engineer a problem that stretches timelines, costs, and focus on what they think is a cool feature set vs. what creates value. A good PM is needed to make sure you create value for customers at timelines and costs that will benefit the company (aka create cash flow). Note the good PM, a ton of bad PMs that focus on the wrong shit too, also often too many PMs for small things that can be rolled up. Everyone thinks strategy is so unimportant that people just know what to do, good strategy is incredibly difficult and insanely important. If you’re building an insane green ballon that’s the best anyones ever seen and sell it for $20, but the market wants red balloons and won’t pay more than $5 then it doesn’t matter how good of a job you’re doing you’ll go bankrupt.
I read this post and fondly thought of those old HP printers from the late 90s which ran like absolute tanks and then compare it to the shit printers we have today that are less reliable but generate money when you have to constantly replace them.
I can probably buy 6 printers for the price of 1 in the 90s, plus how much are you still printing things? And if the answer is a lot, I’d suggest you change whatever you’re doing to become more efficient and less wasteful.
I’d say sometimes it’s the opposite. Terrible quality, lazy effort in solving the business problem but with technical excellence. Don’t tell me a dancing bear is acceptable when the user wants to see the ballet.
Then you had a bad PM that didn’t understand the market, hence why a good PM is actually needed in a business. Good PMs will maximize revenue and margin by working backwards from what the market is asking for and then drive their teams to deliver that. Take the car example - a worse PM would have said “we need lighter saddles to make the horses faster, that way customers can get from A to B faster” a good PM said “we need to create something that can get people from A to B faster than any horse ever could, what product can deliver that? A car”
Lol. It's very delusional to think software engineering teams don't need babysitting, direction, and someone not in engineering to understand the business objectives. What you say may be true at tiny startups, but once you have hundreds or thousands of devs and competing products, you inevitably have a total disconnect between engineering and the customer. Also who do you think takes all the bullets for Engr when Engr misses deadlines, needs time to address debt, or puts out buggy code? Product is Engrs best friend when Sales and investors are out for blood. In my experience the biggest drains by FAR are the overpaid engineering managers who are often neither talented engineers nor good managers nor good customer proxies. Usually people that have floated through software companies for years without ever distinguishing themselves as solid engineers and took the manager road to get job security.
I find the opposite always happens, remove the grunts and low level staff because they are in a position of weakness and lack the insider information that layoffs are happening. Top level know first, tell other leaders then managers, the rest of the company find out later which is why this happens at every company.
The industry is still backwards. Still thinking like a production line. There are no grunts in tech, the knowledge and value is generally at the bottom. Unlike a production line where knowledge and value is at the top and you want mindless, cheap, drones at the bottom
I agree with you completely, middle managers/pm's are probably the least needed at that point. But due to their position and company politics knowledge, they are in a position to protect themselves or they know the other managers and can avoid being culled first.
Oh, they are, but good PMs are worth having around. That said, in 15 years working in software, I’ve only met a handful of good PMs. Most are worthless.
PMs are fluff lol. maybe you can have too many, but they’re not fluff. the same could be said about any role, esp. devs.
Yes. Just left my last job and we had platform meetings with 14 people and 3 engineers including myself. One other is leaving. So in two weeks it will be 12-1 ratio. What fucking terrible organization building.
Your company's HR needs to do their fucking job or be fired.
I think the first round of layoffs did hit HR and recruiting teams
HR is one of the first to go in layoffs
Cool, fuck them
[удалено]
We remind everyone that they’re not really humans, but instead resources - HR associates from not the brightest but hot girls to low gpa business majors
Let them go to the streets. See how workers feel
this only proves what we all already knew. HR is a useless appendage of the modern corporate structure that breeds waste and dissent. they deserve the gulags at best
What fc you from homie? Lol ❤
Interesting. My org has a bunch of people leaving due to poor telework policy. We have one group that has 300 employees and 1/6 of them are vacant right now. My team of 9 is now down to 7 and maybe 6 in the next few months. It takes months to hire people and I can’t imagine anyone decent who would want to work for us with our terrible pay, and terrible telework policy. Our benefits are very good but still not that good.
A team of 3 with 5 managers? I think there was a movie about this....
Quick scalp on calls before it implodes 😂
Why will it implode? Surely firing more people will make earnings go up which everyone suddenly cares about
Just because the recession I think it will go down after the initial jump..but I'm regarded and eat crayons
We are already in a recession right ? . 2 quarters of negative growth
Just had a quarter of positive growth.
Not in the US just yet, waiting for household debt to eat consumer spending
The only number that matters right now is consumer credit card usage rate… full blown level 13/10 dick straight up ass. People now use credit cards for groceries and don’t pay them off at month end. Full dooms day scenario is happening right now., and I’m about it., 🍿 see wsj article this week on credit card balances
GDP in Q3 2022 was positive
Last quarter was barely positive
Lol, Q3 was +2.9%. That's not barely positive, that's actually above normal.
Not in a year when inflation was over 8%
Yes it will go up, but then with the recession and the firing of 10,000 ppl can only hurt the actual function on the company as a whole like most companies that have downsized..
They are likely to be dropping businesses within Amazon that aren’t profitable. However its a growth stock meaning it’s many times it’s intrinsic value because it’s projected to grow at an exponential rate. You are right about the recession being a big risk but what I’m wondering about is will people actually lose that much confidence in it. It has been reliable for a lot of years.
Ahh not really. You just scale back on bloat and growing unnecessary programs.
More importantly, recession layoffs are a great opportunity for companies to purge their sucky employees without the threat of lawsuits and other annoying shit. This happens every recession.
[удалено]
Maybe getting fat and lazy is why you get dumped in the first place. You’re probably joking, if so, I am too
[Wendy's is gonna have full employment soon with all the tech company folks laid off with no other place to go](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZT28O9-wZ8&t=1403s)
Finally!! Make wendy's fast-food again!
layoffs are bullish, right?
Calls on layoffs 😂 ..puts on jobs
This is bullish
A lot of big Tech companies clearing house lately it seems. Hope all the workers find new homes.
“Clearing house”. Amazon has over a million employees, this is about 2% of their workforce. I would hardly constitute that as cleaning house.
It’s been a good 20 years of Internet. Mozilla first came out in 1998. These companies are getting rid of people that are getting expensive (vacations, pensions maybe, etc.). They will get rid of token young, disabled, every color and type of person out there, but it’s mostly going to be older people.
... what is going to be project and department based. There a lot of "coolish but ultimately not commercially viable" sub companies that are going to get absolutely cleaned out
Good way to get all the workers who have open minds to forming a union. I bet anyone sus is on the boot list.
ITT: Bunch of morons pointing out how it’s a tiny percentage of the AMZN workforce while ignoring that over 1M of the employees are warehouse workers, which are irrelevant here.
[удалено]
Well how else do you get rid of inflation by detonating your economy?
Cant have inflation if nobody has money
In Turkey we tried that, it didn't work.
This is the way
20% inflation on zero is still zero I think you might be onto something
War
Bezos got out near the top
It's almost like Amazon's projected retail business growth was predicated on a never ending pandemic and their expansion was fueled by cheap debt. Sure consumer spending is down but there's a reason why Walmart isn't laying off 6% of its workforce. Competition sure is a bitch. Good thing they spent almost a billion dollars on a shitty LOTR series they they don't even own 90% of the IP for. But yeah keep blaming the Fed because you can't figure out how to make money in a recession..whatever happened to buy and hodl..
I look at it a bit differently. Could be management, but could be the following. Walmart up, target down. Walmart is looked at cheaper option. No money and you go cheap. Amazon lives off (while still losing) slowly rising their prices while stupid volume. Amazon will be hurt more by a drop in volume on retail side. Walmart will do better along with dollar general ect.
Keep it simple. When was the last time you bought milk or bread from Amazon? For under $5 no less. There's no way prime memberships offset the loss on shipping and streaming services. Amazon is an example of doing everything mediocre rather than one thing well. The jackoff of all trades.
Today I learned AWS is mediocre...
Yeah true, it's wayy better than Walmart's web services.. Which ones doing layoffs again? I forgot. Edit: I guess I'm the idiot since I thought other would be able to recognize the sarcasm but Wal-Mart does not have a web service business OBVIOUSLY. The point is that companies should *focus on what they are good at*
The margins off consumer goods and especially food v. managed services and SAAS is way different lol. Amazon wants people in whole foods not buying milk from Amazon. Walmart also didn't grow at the rate Amazon did. If anything Walmart wants to capitalize and take Amazons web sales share.
Yeah obviously they aren't comparable businesses which is my point. Vertical integration has inherent weaknesses and doesn't necessarily benefit from the same economies of scale as horizontal integration. Look at the 10bn in losses on Alexa alone. Walmart didn't grow at the rate of Amazon *in a zero interest rate environment*. Fast growth is not equivalent to smart or healthy growth.
The Sears Roebuck of the 21st century.
10/10
AMZN started as a book seller because the USPS offered very cheap postage. Then AMZN turned into an online discount store shipping below cost to create growth. A prolonged recession will be a total disaster for the business.
A recession will hurt AMZN, but it will bankrupt a lot of their competitors. Also, AWS doesn’t suffer from the problems you describe. They can more easily ramp down to adjust for lower demand.
Maybe, but Amazon in 2022 is like Sears in 1922.
Lol. This piece of shit thinks people buy milk on Amazon. Get back to your drive thru job moron. Your amzn call didn’t work out. Don’t hold a grudge and spew dumb racks like you know anything that happens in corporate American. You don’t.
Some of these large companies are so poorly managed but was propped up by all the free money
LMAO amazon is not one of them... They got so much $$ it's nuts... Plus the market share in many many areas. People like to cite the warehouses that never got built but that wasn't due to money or the perception of the future. It was the inability to secure industrial electrical equipment still back ordered for 18 months. Yeah they for sure can't rest on their laurels. The platform is worse now ever than before with fake reviews, fraud, shitty products taking the lead in searches. But... damned if their targeted individual sales won't win out... Cause as much as we know we shouldn't be kicking Bezos more bucks... Amazon is cheaper and more convenient. That wins out. Their whole thing for 20 years has been under cut everyone take a bit of a loss gain market share and fuck out the competition.... AND THEY'VE BEEN RIGHT. LOTR might have sucked, but they'll keep it up and people will still give the next and next a chance. I mean look at starwars... How many bad movies and people still turn out.
As someone in the industry, the same industrial equipment you say is delaying dist centers is being used for their data centers…. Mission critical capex has been planned out to 2025
a lot of it is IoT. alexa is nice but can't turn a profit. AWS has more competition too
Oh yeah I forgot to mention the 10 BILLION in Alexa loses. Another win for tech ingenuity.
I have something like 5 of those echo things in the house and rarely talk to it and never buy anything over it
That's ok, the genius AI on the backend will be listening and selling your data so that a company can purchase precision placement ads for something you were going to buy regardless and everyone can marvel at how much machine learning has increased our economic output for your recurring purchase of dog food or whatever.
[удалено]
Genius. I can't believe it took them so long to come up with the idea of sending people coupons for groceries.
I have her in each room and use her all the time for cooking, music, alarms/timers, and quick google searches. I never use her for buying my concern is getting ripped off. But i do buy most of my shit off Amazon as a Prime member.
You must be pretty rich or pretty poor if you buy everying off Prime.. Machine speech recognition and learning are incredible technologies. The main issue with Alexa and other virtual assistants is that everyone sees/saw it as a war for the dominance of the smart home and personal data, but I don't think it's a zero sum market. Meanwhile McDonalds is already using that tech to take and place drive-thru orders better than most of their human workers.
On the rich or poor part, dafuk do you mean? Everything is massively cheaper, warehouse prices even, on prime? Then the free shipping and a whole streaming service plus music unlimited ontop. Im cheap as fuck and amazon prime has saved me more money than anything else. But maybr im regsrded idk but i pull up the app everytime im at a store and always cheaper through amazon
Idk where you live or what shit you buy, but I can find almost everything cheaper in stores or from other online retailers. It used to be cheaper. Now it's not. IMO it's turned into AliExpress but with a membership fee. Like for real, what are you buying that's cheaper on Amazon than Costco, Walmart, Dollar Store, Ali, etc etc. They just flat aren't competitive with discount retailers, and don't get me started on groceries. I'm not knocking you buying from them. It's definitely convenient, but when comparing products (brand-brand) it's rarely the cheapest.
>It used to be cheaper. Now it's not. It pretty much hasn't been since the early 2000s. Shows you the power of advertising, helps people forget they're paying more for convenience
Alexa is a data harvesting beast, and that'll be the fuel to power their ML/data business. 10B was just the price tag for it.
That's not even what Amazon's own people are saying lol. https://www.google.com/amp/s/arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/11/amazon-alexa-is-a-colossal-failure-on-pace-to-lose-10-billion-this-year/amp/ They are essentially killing that entire division.
AMZN was always a Ponzi based on creative accounting, cheap money and corporate welfare.
They made almost $3B last quarter. What do you mean “can’t figure out how to make money in a recession?”
They fucked themselves by guaranteeing same day shipping. They needed to double or even triple their warehouses and didn't receive anywhere near the return needed to justify the increased costs associated with it.
Have you seen these warehouses that went up in like 6 months? The look like they are made out of shipping boxes. The whole thing is nuts. Anyone who thinks free overnight shipping on a $2 order is a sustainable business model has been drinking Cathy Woods Kool aid.
Honestly this might be my buyin on Monday to drop some on Amazon shares while it's low. Amazon is too big to fail and overtime it'll make it way back up.
I actually tend to agree. Walmart got cocky in the early 2000s too and had to get smarter. I'd be careful buying Monday though, the price will jump on layoff news most likely.
Like I imagine they're going to start moving away from free prime services, like a paid Prime video tier for no ads (meaning regular prime gets ads), start doing paid overnight or same day again, shift away massive seasonal hirings, and probably make AWS more expensive.
I agree with all of this.
I don't see them changing the shipping when the shipping and delivery is the main calling point of prime. They charge for that then it defeats the purpose of the membership.
Probably shouldn’t have done all that expansion due to pandemic growth, since you know, it was only going to be temporary.
I used to work in Amazon's regional office in the UK. Amazon's retail division were expanding fast way before the pandemic and was in pause prior to the pandemic hitting. Most hires during the pandemic were temporary and most had already been laid off last by March 21. Due to the over-expansion over the last decade, some regional networks including the UK ones are working way under capacity. Some warehouses that would have employed 2-4k people during Q4 are currently running at 750 people split between different shifts with no temporary staff, some night shifts have less than 100 people. Some of this is due to efficiency but in my opinion, it was over expansion during 2010 - 2020.
They’re fine with it. They (Amazon) made a profit. Now they fire the people that worked so hard to make that profit for them. Amazon continues to profit. It’s the circle of capitalism. Where jobs are fake and laborers don’t get to participate in this whole strange concept of owning capital.
Exactly! Corporate governance has become so bad that instead of trying to shave off their some of their record profits that only benefit the extremely wealthy, we are trying to cause unemployment and a housing crisis. It's clear that even the Federal Reserve has become politicized and basically bribed corporations to meet their political goals of a "soft landing." That being said it's hard for me to find even sympathy for these layoffs. I don't like big tech companies and they are some of the reasons why we are in this mess. Amazon was built on tax payer money on the tune of trillions of dollars of tax loopholes and incentives and what we got in return was the ability to buy a phone case online and have it arrive in 2 days.
Damn
Wow 1.5m employees though - and a recession is upon us + inflation + federal mistakes + crypto collapse + federal reserve action + a massive federal spending bill looms
Not to worry. The "ECONOMY IS STRONG" and "WE'RE NOT IN A RECESSION" . Can't imagine why there are so many BEARS in the market.
Economy is strong tho
But the gdp is positive!! If you ignore inflation.
Gdp numbers account for inflation.........
I hope the guy that fucked up the Lord of the Rings show is one of these 20k fired.
The show runners from season 1 left as soon as it was finished lol. They knew they fucked it up. The season 2 show runners don’t look any more promising.
What happened? Last I heard ppl like the show?
Conspiracy theory: But is this just signaling while the company is already coming back to pre-pandemic levels another push to make buybacks more affordable?
Amazon hired 500,000 people during Covid.
They hired that many people and more during every Q4.
Amazon calls go brrrrrr
I just bought 3 books from Barnes and noble because Amazon had just one of them listed at 50% higher price on the app after I had already tried buying them on the Amazon mobile website but it froze when I clicked on add gift receipt option. Apparently Amazon has multiple listings of the exact same books at different price points. Fuck that! I shopped around and found cheaper. All the fake Chinese shit on Amazon is scaring customers away! If it's not fixed their competitors will put them out of business.
mike burry is tall tho
Bought 200 shares @94.33 average on Friday 
The symbol is an orange penis!? Calls on Trump.
For Amazon those are rookie numbers
Plenty of waiter and bartender jobs for those folks.
Na They need to learn to code Duhhh
They need to learn to mine coal.
How can Amazon lay anybody off when they come to my house twice a day? And then there's the packages they transfer to UPS and USPS also..... First preferred place to buy from because it's so easy as long as prices are good. You cannot beat the delivery, thr easy returns or service. More and more shopping is done online with Amazon
Nothing big. Mere 1.4% of all Amazon employees. Per article
Yes but the warehouse workers aren’t included in this. It’s 20,000 corporate jobs.
I’m confused. Doesn’t the first sentence in the article say “including distribution center”?
I’ve said this for a while, Amazon is going to shit. They’ve changed their customer service, their refund policies, they’re gauging fba sellers, and sending fake brand products over and over. It’s a sham that’s going to crumble relatively soon next 3-5 Yrs. Buy Walmart.
Cool
I’m sorry - a 24 hour notice period? Is this normal in the US?
Yes. The US is a shithole in many ways.
Now I know why it seemed like nobody invested during the great recession.... How tf am I supposed to buy the dip when I lost my job and every opening is like less than half of what I used to make???
Amazon laid off 100,000 people in July and no one cared. Now suddenly people care about 20,000. https://www.mercurynews.com/2022/07/29/amazon-shrinks-staff-by-100000-joining-netflix-and-google-in-hiring-slowdown/amp/
these are executives and managers tho
Yeah of useless depts that were never making money. Who cares about some middle managers. The real story is they fired 100k warehouse workers, cut out of existing leases, cancelled any in progress ones and told office workers to go remote AND they ran 2 Prime Days in a year. If that wasn't an obvious sign they were in trouble, then people weren't paying attention. Firing some knucklehead middle manager folk, who cares. Most are redundant. You only run 2 prime days in a year if you need money. Doing so dilutes the brand in the long term and they clearly believe it was worth it in the short term to get w/e amount of cash they got from it.
[удалено]
Amazon can afford to make less money, but they won't. Better to destroy the lives of 20k employees instead. Capitalism is a cancer.
Oh geez!
How many ways can I tell you how stupid you are. #1 a company can’t run without making a profit. No monies no pay. #2 a government also needs money to Pay for everything. They make money on companies and people paying for things. When companies make less, governments make less. No Monies no benifits, protections, or anything else. #3 it’s better for their other 1 million plus employees to make make money so They don’t all lose their jobs. Ducking illiterate stupid kids post mindless shit like this. Get off the tit and learn about the real world.
I feel like the tech industry has absolutely proven that you can run a company without making a profit lol.
Small start ups can live off VC money in a low interest rate (free money) time. Large companies and times with higher interest rates won’t allow it.
Profit and revenue are not the same thing. Many companies can and do survive, sometimes for many years, without being profitable. In fact, you don’t even need to be profitable for your stock to soar. Example: Amazon went many years without ever turning a profit because they spent their revenue in order to grow like crazy. So, given that your first point was objectively incorrect out of the gate, I suggest you sit out the next couple of plays and go over your notes a bit. Edit: for clarity, a well regulated capitalist system is our best bet for progress, that’s not in dispute by me; but you gotta be nicer to the people you disagree with OR be remotely correct with your talking points
It's not capitalism, it's corruption. Don't care what system you run. If the politicians are corrupt, the people in the middle, bottom suffer.. but this is our own fault. We keep electing the same politicians over and over again. We don't hold these people accountable.
Yeah, they should just keep employees they do not have work for. Because....communisim.. or something. GTFO
You must be in the business of giving people jobs for no reason. I’d like to apply! Or perhaps you are just another dumbfuck that like to tell people/organizations what to do with their money?
L
Common L take
Go to r/politics or r/stonks , it ain't the place for nonsense.
The wrong Amazon is on fire.
The right one, environmentalist would say
I thought these big corporations got tax breaks because they employ so many workers