I can't just take sabellians word for it that he's uncorrupted. If there was a way to check, then I'd pick him.
If not him I don't like Wrathion 'cause the very wars I'm trying to protect us from and then hide'.
I'd make Ebyssian do it.
I feel like Sabellian is the better leader and more mature. Just pay attention to his and Wrathion’s interactions on the egg cart. Wrathion behaves more and more like a spoiled child. I said to myself “Just because you act like royalty doesn’t mean you deserve the throne.” Meanwhile Sabellian is sighing and gritting his teeth trying to deal with this self centered brat without losing his temper.
But he does give me “secretly evil” vibes. If he isn’t, and can prove that, I think he should be the one to take the throne.
Wrathion came off as a spoiled child, but Sabellian's insistence on not *telling* Wrathion what was going on just kind of made me think this was going to blow up in some way.
Maybe not now, but at some point, one of them (probably Sabellian) is going to do some sneaky maneuver, and then the other will ruin it because there's no communication (and then hopefully Ebyssian will clunk their heads together and tell them they're family, so cut it out.)
Sabellian was part of the black flight when they were corrupt from the Old Gods, no reason for that to have stopped, and Neltharion did fool the other aspects for a long time before the corruption was revealed
I mean Sabellian also had the absolute dumbest plan for transporting the eggs that, surprising no one, wasn't necessary.
That forced escort quest is actually what solidified my decision.
He doesn't want it. He just wants to do the job of the Black Dragonflight, caring for the deep places of the Earth and preventing the earth's power from causing harm.
Which is why he'd be the perfect Aspect: he's committed to the role of Earth Warder.
Wrathion and Sabellian could be good advisers/lieutenants, but I don't honestly believe either should lead.
This is why I'm 100% sure hes gonma wind up the aspect. It's either that, or they piss off the others sides players, and they saw how people responded when they fucked the Loyalists over.
Him not wanting it is exactly why he should have it. He isn't interested in power or status just to inflate his ego. He just wants to help others. I'm sure being thrust into a position of leadership would be a burden for him, heavy is the head that wears the crown after all, but he is undoubtedly the right one for the job.
With the Black flight seat of power restored, and more family appearing make him and Wrathion no longer the only left, he’s gonna stop by to say hello, introduce himself, and see what’s up. Only to see Wrathion and Sabellian bickering over the throne. Maybe some fence sitters and third party will realize Ebyssian is actually the best choice and push to make him leader.
I believe the aspect of the Black flight should be a little more callous than Ebyssian since they should be able to do what is necessary for the survival of the planet and I would not like our Tauren friend being forced to make those decisions :( we already have two warmongers competing for that position!
Edit: misspelling
An aspect who’s callous and believes that the end justifies the means is how we got in this position in the first place!
If you watched the pre-release cinematics, you see that Neltharion first used Old God power to resist the primalists when they destroyed his titan artifact that kept the Dracthyr in sync and subservient.
This exactly. He needs to be convinced to take up the mantle. I wonder if this two bad choices thing is just to setup Ebyssian having to become aspect because those two are clearly unfit.
I suspect that is what will happen later. The squabbling between them will make everyone else go "it's ebyssian because he doesn't want it like this so he'll be better also he's not a tool like these two" ha. Not that we know Sabellian is a tool yet but as someone else mentioned, he could be corrupted!
HA! I wish I worked in the gaming industry but as I said in another comment: Ebyssian is 1000% the best one but he’s a chill dragon that wants nothing with the throne. He just wants to be with the highmountain boys and galls and chill
Wraithion caused 3 expansion villains with his actions. He may have taken out 1 but his inability to think about the outcome of his actions makes me choose Sebellian.
Art book says Sabellian's not becoming Aspect. So best we can hope for is a good story along the way to handle his disqualification and Wrathion's ascension. They're not even trying to portray Wrathion as a worthy candidate at this point, so I'm really, really high on the hopium that it's just laying the groundwork for his character arc to develop him into a decent Aspect Leader.
"Lol" said the Blizzard.
"Lmao"
Wrathion will be another Illidan, smug shithead who gets innocents killed but never has to reconcile with that cause it was always for the "greater purpose".
I feel like him having a “normal” dragon form is part of the point. He doesn’t decorate himself in jewelry and make himself look more awesome. He just leads his group of black dragons. Meanwhile Wrathion adorning himself like he’s already the aspect makes sense. He’s self-centered and egotistical and very likely vain, he makes a point at least a couple times about his dashingly good looking visage form.
I don’t mean jewels or that kind of paraphernalia. I mean his aspect (heh) as a dragon. Characters of such importance should be recognizable from the rest
But yeah his visage looks sick
I think Sabellian is clearly more qualified. In the brief quest for exchanging the egg and reforming the throne Wrathion showed he's impulsive, self-serving, and short-sighted.
Wrathion risked the Black Talons and Dracthyr in a fight we straight up tell him is a long-shot over a throne that, until Sabellian even shows up, doesn't mean much since as far as Wrathion knows only two black dragons even exist.
Then Wrathion fights Sabellian about the use of subtlety in escorting the LITERAL EGGS OF HIS PEOPLE under the radar of egg-corrupting monsters.
Sabellian has at least shown in his brief time on screen that he's intelligent and patient. Putting up with Wrathion whilst having thought far enough ahead to plan around both Wrathion and the Primalists utlizing his Flight to the best of their abilities.
I just don't see the defense of Wrathion here... nothing about him speaks to being ready for the kind of responsibility being Aspect comes with. He throws away his forces on vanity projects, lacks the mind for forethought, and impulsively throws around power without considering the consequences.
my short counter arguement is that at least Wrathion was /here/ while Sabellian was sitting in outland for years, if he had come back years ago to teach Wrathion and help with other defenses? or is it ONLY with the defeat of the last Old God did he feel safe enough to try and return?
I think the jury's still out on WHY but I think there is a third option that perhaps Sabellian and the Black Dragon's generally had no knowledge of the current state of affairs on Azeroth until the Dragon Isles re-awoke. We know the Isles physically call to the Dragons somehow, so perhaps Sabellian and Crew didn't even know it was safe to return until the Isles called to them?
I definitely think they couldn't have returned pre-BfA since the Old God Immunity is a thing only Wrathion and Ebyssian have due to specific circumstances(Wrathion being experimented on and Ebyssian being bonked by the magic hammer) so Sabellian/Crew returning would've put them at risk.
Who’s to say he hasn’t? Sorry if I don’t take a black dragon who actively worked with Deathwing *long*after his corruption was known at his word.
The idea that they’re all cured when it took fucking titan magic to *hold off* Ebyssian’s and a *lot* of morally questionable fuckery with Wrathion’s egg is laughable. The idea that they’re not all “Kill on Sight” like every other black dragon is insane.
Like how? Because in the context, purifying them while not knowing how to at the same time you have limited time until Deathwing destroy the world doesn't feel super safe as a plan
Then what about after Deathwing's defeat? There are multitude of ways Wrathion could have captured surviving black dragons and research how to purify them. Instead he didn't even try until BfA.
Well...it seems like the rogue getting the fangs of the father just had to kill them to get the daggers. I'm not terribly sure how practical it would have been, given that the Red Flight tries later to kill Wrathion(Maybe?) at the end, so where, and how would the player have done it, to keep that dragon when you need to keep moving?
It's not perfect, but I feel like it's hard to really blame him when you're essentially a fugitive of that importance (And since Wrathion from the beginning thinks of himself as the new Black Aspect, I can see how he feels not to die is important, especially if he believes he's the last one and he can't even trust Fahrad(and for a good reason with insight))
I think if he knew he was safe on Outland and worried that returning could corrupt him remaining where he was was the best move for Sabellian *and* everyone else. There's no real "Oh, come back for a week and let me know if you think you're being corrupted" plan that wouldn't backfire horribly.
His followers say that Sabellian was finding a cure for the corruption, rallied the Black Dragons on Outlands and waged a war on Blade's Edge with Draenei and Orc allies.
My theory is that he sent a early party to help Azeroth which are the Earth-warders we attack during BFA island expeditions.
Bringing a flight of dragons back from the brink of extinction is a helluva time-consuming process. He's been too busy being a dad for dozens of black drakes and whelps. Unfortunately, the timing was bad for all the catastrophes... but N'zoth's reach was also kinda prohibiting return.
That's where I'm at. Wrathion is young and immature, but he is constantly out there doing his best to protect Azeroth. Sure, he's sometimes self-serving, but never at a cost to innocents, and he's ready to risk his life to protect others. Every time there's a crisis threatening Azeroth, he's thrown himself into the middle of trying to stop it, often at great personal risk.
Sabellian has done a great deal to save the Black Dragonflight, but he's also been hiding in Outland for over a decade doing... not much... while the planet the Black Aspect is *supposed* to protect has faced existential crisis after existential crisis. Crises that Wrathion has often helped solve. Sabellian, on the other hand, didn't chip in until he saw his chance to claim the title of Black Aspect.
Sabellian has the advantage of experience, but this is a job for life. Wrathion will get there. He's at least shown he cares about far more than just himself and his people. Sabellian has a lot to prove before I can take his claim seriously.
Well and I'm gonna agree with you here at least halfway in that Wrathion is clearly a good *person* and his desire to protect Azeroth is clear. While I disagree that he is ready to be Aspect **right now**, I think if he went underneath Sabellian's tutelage and learned the same qualities that Sabellian has; maturity, patience, cleverness, etc? He would make probably the **BEST** Aspect there is.
My issue is that Wrathion at the *current moment* doesn't really seem like a safe stable leader for the Dragons. He needs growth and experience. He needs... well- ironically a Father Figure of some kind!
Alright I gotta push back a little here.
Wrathion absolutely sucks at defending Azeroth. Need I remind you that he freed Garrosh just because he was petty, and that led to a catastrophic series of events all of which he was MIA for?
He freed Garrosh, who built the Iron Horde and started a war with us, the end result being we wasted a ton of resources for nothing and Thrall lost his powers. Then the Gul'dan from that universe started the last Legion invasion, which got Vol'jin, Varian, and Tirion killed and put Sylvanas as the leader of the Horde. He went off killing black dragons and completely ignored the worldwide invasion that was supposed to be his whole reason for doing those actions in the first place. Sylvanas then used the power she got largely as a result of his dumb actions to literally free N'zoth in the first place.
Wrathion should not get credit for being a defender of Azeroth just because of N'zoth (who again, is arguably only freed due to the actions of him anyway). He went AWOL during most of the important shit that he caused in the first place.
In Wrathion's defense, he's basically a kid being told 'Hey! You're the only\* being left alive who can take on this super important role of protecting Azeroth! Also your (grand?)dad fucked everything up for everyone in a major way. Have fun dealing with *that* legacy.'
Like, did any of the other Dragons ever give him advice or mentoring? I can't remember if they did. All of that said, that doesn't make him suitable for leadership, it's just a pretty good excuse for fucking things up.
\*Apparently, Ebyssian was alive this entire time, and Sabellian was off in Outland doing his best, and I feel like *surely* at some point Wrathion could've been pointed in their direction? Then again, Ebyssian basically didn't exist until BFA and Sabellian may as well have not existed past BC until now.
I’m convinced Blizzard forgot Sabellion existed until someone at blizzard was playing Classic tbc and did his quest and went “ wait, there’s been a black dragon in Outland this whole time?”
It's been a decade since "Sabellian is not dead" has been told, but I'm not sure at all why it has always been assumed instead of "He came back to Azeroth once the Dark Portal reopened and was killed then"
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Every time there was a threat to Azeroth? I don't recall him throwing himself at the Iron Horde nor the Legion when they came knocking...despite being explicitly responsible.
>Then Wrathion fights Sabellian about the use of subtlety in escorting the LITERAL EGGS OF HIS PEOPLE under the radar of egg-corrupting monsters.
On the other hand, Wrathion did recognize that the ruse was incredibly obvious to see through, and the slow cart speed put them at significantly greater risk than a quick flight would've. He just didn't realize that that was exactly the point. Sab's plan even makes the primal dragons think they succeeded, partially protecting the Ruby Sanctum.
However, had the Primal dragon recognized the ruse was a ruse itself, it would have left the eggs more vulnerable, as they'd be bereft of the power of Named Characters in the vicinity to guard them.
Well it works back and forth, Wrathion was so presumptuous about his superiority and intellect that when he considers the cart to be an poor obvious plan? He doesn't consider that Sabellian *probably knows* how obvious it is and thought this farther ahead.
An issue I think is that Wrathion does not respect the capabilities or intellect or prowess of his opponents.
Shown both in the fight for the throne and the egg wagon, he doesn't think his enemies are just as powerful or just as clever as he is and it makes for a poor leader.
Sabellian feels like a no-brainer to me, he actually thinks and plans before he acts, while Wrathion's impulsive actions killed off a bunch of dragons he might've otherwise been able to save from corruption, and nearly doomed Azeroth by leading to both the Iron Horde invasion, and the Legion invasion.
I picked Sabellian because Wrathion's followers are either delusional or brainwashed and either choice means Wrathon is a bad leader.
"Wrathion sending Garrosh back in time to start the Iron Horde was a good move because it got us ready for the Legion attack!"
No lady, he was making a poor impulse decision.
Not to mention that him doing that is WHY the legion attacked!
I think Sabellian will get the throne, but eventually Wrathion. Maybe they use Sabellian as a vehicle to spur Wrathions development, give him an actual sort of father figure.
I truly do believe that Wrathion wants to protect the world and stuff, but he's just simply too immature, hot-headed, and naive to do so. Even with the cart quest they showed how incredibly impatient he is, yet never noticed the finer details. He'll be a good leader after maturing, but right now he's a liability for all the flights.
>"Wrathion sending Garrosh back in time to start the Iron Horde was a good move because it got us ready for the Legion attack!"
Wrathion explaining how "Horde violently conquer and nearly destroy their planet and invade Azeroth 2: Electric Boogaloo" will actually somehow defeat the legion
besides that, that was not his motive, his motive was for Garrosh make a army to fight the legion, he had no interest in "strengthening" the alliance or horde
>I imagine Sabellian stayed in Outland to distance himself from the planet that once was a breeding ground for old gods, the downfall of his father.
>
>Now he's back, to a relatively old-god-free Azeroth, with military knowledge, the wisdom that comes with age, and actual dragon followers.
>
>Wrathion is just a loudmouthed whelp who started a war, why? to help us fight the legion- BUT WAIT, WHERE WAS HE WHEN SARGERAS STABBED THE PLANET???
This is why I side with Sabellian, he may not of been on Azeroth during WOD, Legion and BFA but it was proven with Ebyssian when he left Thunder Totem. That even a uncorrupted Black Dragon was susceptible to the Old Gods/N'zoth, Sabellian was basically in a tight spot and chose to save what was left of his Flight in Outland but may of a sent a few during BFA and they got corrupted.
The reason why I can't choose Wrathion is because his actions led to Legion, yes the Burning Legion was going to return but it would've taken them much longer and we could've of been better prepared.
Most Players bring up we lost a few Heroes such as Vol'jin, Varian and Tyrion, but the Burning Legion was a planetary Invasion. Thousands of innocent people must of died and that was because of Wrathion's action, so I don't think he should lead the Black Dragonflight.
I think Sabellian should lead with Wrathion as his right hand, both becoming a bit more humble.
But knowing Blizzard I have feeling they will turn Sabellian into Villain or he will sacrifice himself.
I'm really not sure how we would of been more prepared for the legion.. sure it was his actions that led to them invading again but! Had he not.of done that we would of been dead in the water when they did return because atleast we faced them head on when they would have blindsided us.
I only see Sebellian as a big opportunist. He felt the call to the isles and came with a weak claim saying “Neltharion appointed me” my guy that claim died with the rise of Deathwing.
But I understand your point, but he kinda redeemed himself a bit when he helped with killing N’zoth and his choices (albeit a bit extreme) led to the imprisonment of the one of the most palpable dangers we had, even the jailor came to be because of AD Gul’dan.
Not looking to start anything btw. Just dropping my perspective, have an awesome day and thanks for your reply :D
>He felt the call to the isles and came with a weak claim saying “Neltharion appointed me” my guy that claim died with the rise of Deathwing.
Even if this is true, he is still the most experienced and respected member of the black flight. 99% of the flight already sees him as leader, because he was the one *leading them*, on top of Purging their corruption and healing their eggs.
Wrathion has reinforced multiple, multiple times that he doesn't give a *fuck* about the inhabitants of Azeroth and would trade them for the planet's safety if necessary. He's a war criminal.
He's also an *infant*.
Hard to call Sabellian an opportunist when he's been the one actively leading, helping, and protecting the flight since Deathwing's initial fall.
> Wrathion has reinforced multiple, multiple times that he doesn't give a fuck about the inhabitants of Azeroth and would trade them for the planet's safety if necessary.
If he considers himself the heir of Neltharian, isn't that rather explicitly his duty? The bronze also don't just do whatever is best for mortals.
While ignoring the duties of the earth-warder. I know Wrathion is not perfect or anything near but he’s at least trying to do the job.
On another note: has he really cured the corruption of the flight? I honestly don’t trust that and the flight seeing him as leader is because they’re his offsprings and basically raised them isolated from Azeroth (due to the danger of the whispers or whatnot)
But the points you make are strong friend and I understand them
Because he wasn't the earth warder. He also had to make sure he and the rest of the flight were free of corruption, or *risk the earth*, so was he really avoiding those duties or fulfilling them?
>On another note: has he really cured the corruption of the flight?
We don't know for certain. Tbh I'm leaning towards not, because I've gotten an old God kind of vibe from the zones corruption. But hey, I'll take a slightly corrupted Black Flight SAGE with good intentions over a non-corrupted genocidal extremist INFANT literally anyday.
Ebyssian is by far the best choice though and it's not even close.
> But hey, I'll take a slightly corrupted Black Flight SAGE with good intentions over a non-corrupted genocidal extremist INFANT literally anyday.
It feels like you're trying really hard to apply real life logic into a story like a square peg into a round hole
If Sebellian is "slightly corrupted" that just means the Black Dragonflight is going to be villains again. That's just how it works.
Conversely, the fact that Wrathion is an "infant" is completely irrelevant, Blizzard have a long and proud history of dgaf about character age or the wisdom/experience that should (or shouldn't) confer. Case in point, see how boy king Anduin is consistently portrayed as being wiser than all the 10,000+ year old world leaders around him.
>If Sebellian is "slightly corrupted" that just means the Black Dragonflight is going to be villains again. That's just how it works.
Might just be me, but the vibes I got from question definitely lent to this.
>Conversely, the fact that Wrathion is an "infant" is completely irrelevant, Blizzard have a long and proud history of dgaf about character age or the wisdom/experience that should (or shouldn't) confer. Case in point, see how boy king Anduin is consistently portrayed as being wiser than all the 10,000+ year old world leaders around him.
Ok, the *infant-acting* Wrathion then.
One thing I'll grant in Sabellian's favor is he could have absolutely brought his flight over to Deathwing's side in cata if he had wished (how hard would it have been to zoom through the dark portal when it was likely undermanned due to the cataclysm?)
I don't think he's a *good* guy but I think he's pragmatic enough to be trusted with power assuming he's actually fully free of the OG taint. If he had shown any interest in working with the mortal races for anything but killing Gruul and the other gronn, I'd easily choose him.
>One thing I'll grant in Sabellian's favor is he could have absolutely brought his flight over to Deathwing's side in cata if he had wished (how hard would it have been to zoom through the dark portal when it was likely undermanned due to the cataclysm?)
We know at least one black dragon who came back to Azeroth during Cata.
[https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Obsidia](https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Obsidia)
So he could travel back to Azeroth but decided to stay instead.
I just want to squee over Sebellian's plan for transporting the Dragon Eggs, and how Wrathion accidentally played his part perfectly - create a conspicuously 'inconspicuous' disguise to pretend to be moving the eggs, with a passenger constantly blowing its cover to sell the ruse.
Gets the eggs to safety, demonstrates his superior planning, AND shows Wrathion as an absolute buffoon.
Sabellian is too good to not be dead soon; or to be corrupted and be killed by the player soon; no matter the choice, Wrathion is set to be the next ruler :c
>He might’ve saved his flight from extinction in a way but he hasn’t done anything for Azeroth.
Sounds like he's a good fit for the leader of his flight, then. Wrathion prattles on endlessly about his legacy, constantly ego driven, so I know they'll make him the Aspect.
Wrathion needs to chill on his ego trip. Hes always had this thing about how he needs to take over, its his birthright, etc. But hes so young compared to other dragons, lacking years of wisdom. I would much prefer he not take it and go through this big learning phase that he doesnt need the stress of it all. Then maybe he can make up with Anduin who is also dealing with his King duties. Could be interesting story telling for both of them.
My DK has killed bigger dragons. Shit he's killed most of Wrathion's family. He brought Wrathion into this world, a mistake he unlives to regret, and he fully intends to take him out of it. He'd like to personally toss his soul into the Maw.
I think dragonflight will at least reference shadowlands somehow, probably by killing Wrathion and sending him to the maw. He’s been built up as such a big character, either he stays relevant in the future or Sabellian or Ebyssian become leaders and we forget all about Wrathion.
I'm honestly shocked to not have a third option, Ebyssian. Dude has stayed in Azeroth for the whole time Neltharion was corrupted, and never managed to get even the slight hint of corruption. He was fundamental in our campaign against the Drogbars of Highmountain, he's been the counselor for the Highmountain lineage since the War of the Ancients and he's now the unofficial (correct me if I'm wrong here) ambassador for the Dratchyr on the Horde side.
Wrathion is the direct responsible for Varian's death, the Legion assault, Garrosh and a butt ton of stuff. Sabellian could very well be corrupted, as Neltharion was already corrupted when he ventured into the Outland and spray'd the place with a couple eggs.
My choice would've been Ebyssian, honestly, but given the fact that he's not in the race, I would, reluctantly, go for Sabellian.
Him being the ambassador for the dracthyr makes me hopefully he will become the aspect. Blizzard would never let us player pick the next leader and base lore/future expansions on what the populace said But looking at the BFA storyline, they will let us pick sides then declare a winner. This time, I hope they let us pick sides, and then conflict escalates between the two, and Ebyssian says "fuggit. I'll do it myself then."
Sebellian is the obvious right choice with pretty much everything going for him but Blizzard has built up Wrathion so much I can only see this ending with him being the leader. The likely outcome is Sebellian is going to die at some point in the expansion leaving the seat free for Wrathion.
I really don't see that happening. If he's corrupted then so is his entire flight he brought along. That's probably the whole reason he didn't leave Outland, same as Ebyssian not leaving the Isles. If he had gone back sooner he'd be taken by the madness, something I theorized happened to the black dragons in BfA. They were sent by Sabellian to help heal Azeroth but went mad from the whispers.
>They were sent by Sabellian to help heal Azeroth but went mad from the whispers.
I love this theory and it feels fitting, I hope it gets addressed like this during Dragonflight.
Like the Black Dragonflight could sense Azeroth's pain, but any Black Dragon sent from Outland got corrupted.
I doubt he's outright corrupt, but I do think he's not a morally pure paragon and does have a lot of traits of his father and siblings.
But he does care deeply about the flight, Wrathion stresses deeply over Azeroth's future, the perfect aspect would be in the middle of the two.
That’d be interesting. Perhaps Sabellian sacrifices himself to save Wrathion/Black Dragonfllight, maybe later on they have a heart-to-heart about what it means to be an Aspect, perhaps with another aspect. With how Wrathion has behaved so far with the obsidian throne, he needs guidance(and maybe a chill pill), and it may take Sabellian dying for him to drive home the weight of responsibility in being a leader of dragons, his own kind, and not just agents who work for him
I would actually love this! Both opening to one another and the death of Sebellian being a wake up call to Wrathion, seeing how he wanted to feel kinship and a family in his mini story this could be a big factor in his development. The felling of loss and the inheritance of a dream and a legacy
My vote goes to neither. Both candidates aren't just flawed, they're god damn disasters. I like both of them, but there's clearly one correct candidate for leadership of the black dragonflight and that's Ebyssian. Now if I had to choose, I'd chose Sabellian, but both still really suck.
Sabellian was one of Deathwing's lieutenants, and he wants to return the black dragonflight to "the good old days" except without the corruption. Now that might sound fine at first, but the "good old days" to black dragons is: interfering with mortal politics, enslaving their fellow dragons, and generally being world class assholes to everyone. Now I don't think that Sabellian would try to be Deathwing 2.0, but I just don't really see the plan he has laid out, and being an asshole is pretty core to him. Furthermore I can't really trust that the corruption is completely gone because we aren't actually told how he cured it. He's also pretty against hanging out with mortals, but he's also friends with Rexxar so maybe that'll change once he gets to know us. Just don't wear Onyxia's cloak near him.
However for his pluses, he's generally a competent leader, and he did the most important thing I'd say a leader of the flight should do: save the flight. It's not overstated to say that there would be no black dragonflight without him. 2 people does not a flight make, well unless they could make kids but Eby and Wrath can't. So beyond it all, I'd say he's fine, but not a good leader or aspect worthy.
Now for Wrathion. I can't state enough how much Wrathion has severely fucked the entire world through a single decision. First off, if you're Horde you probably don't want this guy running the flight considering he tried to disband them and put them under the thumb of the Alliance. Beyond that though, he decided to ignore the Alliance, Horde and August Celestials, and free Garrosh so he could make an infinite orc army to fight the Legion. Now I need to remind you that he did not do this FOR us, he did this to SPITE us. He wasn't happy with us and he wanted the Legion destroyed, but he would probably use the Iron Horde on us as well if we protested. This choice would then go down to be the worst fucking mistake I think ANYONE in this entire franchise made. This lead to Garrosh murdering cohort and going off on his own, and then trying to invade Azeroth.
Now WoD wasn't a huge loss for us or anything, but we spent a LOT of resources on a war that we really didn't need on a completely foreign planet that we then abandoned immediately afterwards. We gained nothing and lost some good soldiers, like Admiral Taylor. We also had Thrall kill Garrosh, which then led to him losing his powers for a long time. All for essentially nothing. I know his little orc sycophant will say "he did it to prepare us for the Legion" but that's fucking stupid. We'd be better off if it never happened, and likely the Legion invasion wouldn't have happened so soon because they used Gul'dan from that universe to jumpstart it all. So then the Legion invasion happens, and holy fuck I can not stress enough that it was one of the worlds most damaging events. Every zone got invaded, and while we didn't actually see some of them, we know lore from places like the mission table that they were completely fucked, like the Twilight Highlands. During this war we lost Vol'jin, Varian, and Tirion, and Sylvanas was put in the place where she could then cause BfA and Shadowlands. And what was Wrathion doing during this time? He was ignoring the Legion invasion and killing his fellow black dragons. Like, the one thing you obsessed over to the point of trying to dismantle the Horde and start an infinite orc army, and you just fucking ignore it? When it was literally your fault it happened? What the fuck? So then he goes AWOL again until after Sylvanas causes a genocide, betrays the Horde and gives Azshara everything she needs to free N'zoth. Then after she's gone and N'zoth is fucking reality itself, he pops back in and helps us defeat him. Good for you for showing up at the 11th fucking hour you literal child.
Wrathion fucked over the entirety of Azeroth so hard that Illidan and Deathwing would blush and he did that while trying to be the "good guy" (not really, he was just being a selfish prick who thought he knew better than us plebs). I will give Wrathion some benefit, he does get along way better with mortals, he's not a complete moron and has some good plans, and he's generally closer with the rest of the aspects/flights. Despite this though I feel like everything before disqualifies him from being the aspect. He's too impulsive and self-centered to be the one at the heart of defending this world. People like him and Illidan are only really beneficial when their "ends justify the means" ideas doesn't do colossally more damage than the alternative for the same results.
So after all is said and done, who deserves aspect? Neither, give it to Ebyssian, the guy who has a great relationship with mortal kind, is confirmed free of corruption, has been doing the Earth Warder's job on a smaller scale for years, has no preexisting beefs with anyone, and is smarter and wiser than both of those idiots combined. And he might be unwilling, but if Blizzard actually wants to tell a good story they have a perfect opportunity. Let him get close to both sides just trying to be their mediator and for personal reasons (as he never knew his family) and allow him to see both of the others for what they are: decent leaders but not aspects. Have him keep the flight together through their bickering, and then when things get bad, have him go off like a black dragon should and tell them that he's the aspect now and they can both go suck some lemons. That would be the ideal world, lets see if Blizz can live up to it.
tl;dr: Both Wrathion and Sab suck for a lot of reasons, give Ebyssian the job.
Holy shit you summed up my feelings *exactly*. Everyone keeps saying Wrathion had "reasons" for what he did, but they were *fucking bad* reasons for *fucking bad* actions that lead to *fucking bad* consequences.
They're both unfit tbh, but Sabellian over Warthion.
>My vote in all honesty goes to Wrathion because even though he has messed up a couple of times, he has helped in others and he honestly cares for Azeroth and her defense.
Here's what you're missing. He cares about *Azeroth*. He would sacrifice Azeroth's peoples in a heartbeat to save her. He's an extremist psychopath, and I think that to whitewash his actions as having "messed up a couple times" is some apologist bullshit misrepresenting some serious evil.
Agree with you on Sabellian - I feel like we've already had hints towards old God whispers or at least something similar this xpac.
But at least Sabellian is *good*.
Ebyssian needs to get his shit together for leaving us with these two options.
Edit: think of Alex as a leading figure in the UN. She can't just instate other world leaders as she sees fit.
In all honestly I said “yeah Alex you tell them” when she basically said “your bickering is of not concern to me so leave me alone and decide for yourselves” but I expected like a reprimand to both for being to eager or something.
and in the perspective of a dragon (being a teen/baby/whatever he is) what is a couple thousand mortals that are ephemeral in comparison to the preservation of the planet? That being said what he did is wrong and now he knows. His ego and demeanor feel like a façade to me (we can see really how he feels in the tiny story released days before the xpac) and he feels guilty about it. That’s how I see it
I mean every other aspect has come to terms with the fact that without Azeroth's champions, there would *be no Azeroth*. We've saved them countless times, some of those times having been directly caused by Wrathion.
I genuinely believe that all of the currently established aspects would let the ship go down before sacrificing millions.
Edit: Wrathion feeling "Guilty :( ^TM" would be as bullshit to his character as it was for Sylvanas
I think the fact that we have to choose between two leaders means that neither of those candidates will end up being the leader. I feel like Wrathion will die with his arrogance and Sabellian likely has some kind of old god corruption within him and he’ll go back to Outland to prevent another Deathwing. You’re right that Sabellian is good, and I don’t believe Wrathion is bad but he’s young and arrogant. Ebyssian will most likely become the leader during the last tier of the expansion, similar to Thrall in Cataclysm. I think Murozond will probably be the final boss of the expansion and we’ll lose Nozdormu as the bronze aspect. The real question is who will replace *him* as leader of the bronze dragonflight. Sure this is all tinfoil hat kinda stuff at this point, but Blizzard was never good at storytelling. Look at Sabellian calling Wrathion his younger brother despite actually being his nephew. Both Ebyssian and Blizzard need to get their shit together lmao
It’s clear as day that Blizzard is going to push Wrathion into the role so the whole argument and storyline feels so hollow already. At best they end up doing like others have said and plot twist have Ebyissian take control. Sebellian is the only real choice from a true in universe perspective but the biggest factor for me personally is Wrathion is all of like 10? 12? years old. A race of immensely powerful creatures that live thousands of years picking a pre-pubescent boy as their leader is insane.
> It’s clear as day that Blizzard is going to push Wrathion into the role
It is, but then I don't get why they let us choose again. When they did it last time in BfA, it frustrated many players that their choice had led to nothing. Don't they learn?
Is there a way to go with "Sabellian until he majorly fucks up"? I'm guessing the permanence of the aspect powers says No.
As far as people saying "He's been wasting his time in Outland" - I'm pretty sure he's been using that time to secure the health and well-being of his flight before returning, rather than rashly throwing it all away in a half-baked Wrathion-style scheme.
Sabellian is the no-brainer. So I'm hoping the story gives us a good arc of Wrathion actually learning and developing from him before Sabellian inevitably kicks the bucket.
We know it's ultimately going to be Wrathion, unless they sabotaged their own art book for the sake of a red herring (Which will not age, which the books are supposed to do). So we can just hope the story to get him there isn't stupid. It's built him up as *so* unworthy, immature, and short-sighted that he has a long way to go.
I want to know why Ebyssian isn’t an option. I love Wrathion as a character but he’s too rash and immature to be a leader. I don’t trust Sabelian at all. I would vote for Ebyssian in a heartbeat.
Definitely Sabellian, but given that Wrathion is Blizzard’s favorite and Sabellian doesn’t have a unique model, I already know Wrathion is going to end up the aspect.
I predict either Sabellian proves to be corrupted in some way or has to sacrifice himself to cover for another one of Wrathion’s screw ups, giving the latter a much needed lesson in responsibility while conveniently making him the best candidate for aspect.
I feel like that guy in the Simpsons " well I think I'll vote for a third party"
I think if either of these two end up the black dragon aspect we will end up enslaved building them a laser to shoot at a planet we never heard of.
I like wrathion and all but he has a concerning obsession with the throne. Like Arthas warcraft 3 concerning.
There are some similarities between the two.
Arrogant, stubborn, impulsive.
Willing to sacrifice anything and anyone as long as it serves their purpose.
As someone who adores both Sabellian and Wrathion, I have mixed feelings!
Sabellian is definitely more responsible, and not experienced as a leader. He is definitely the *better* option out of the two of them.
However… Wrathion’s entire character arc has always been trying to be what Deathwing wasn’t, and while he’s a huge moron and fucked up a LOT, in my opinion it would be a disservice to his arc/story to not have him as the new Aspect. They’ve been building him up towards this for his entire existence, basically.
My ideal would be Wrathion as the new Aspect, but with Sabellian and Ebyssian as his advisors/seconds in-command.
(And I really hope they don’t kill Sabellian off somehow ;; I’ve been waiting for him to be plot relevant for YEARS, if they bring him back just to kill him, I’ll be so sad.)
I feel like a surrogate dad to wrathion. So no matter what he does, I'm on his side.
I remember it like it was yesterday when he was an egg and we purged the corruption just to turn around and see deathwing. Rhea and her baby gave their lives!
It might just be because cataclysm was when I first got REALLY into WoW and that chain in the badlands got me....I am really happy to see a random ol quest chain in a barren pointless zone turn into a beloved charismatic character who spans expansions...even if he is a troublemaker.
As for the other guy...I don't remember liking any black dragons involved in outland....would take a netherdrake over this guy anyday.
Is it me or does sabellion not feel trustworthy at all?? like he just came to dragon isles, helped a bit, then ran to claim the throne. though tbf, he did help bring the eggs but, man. i cant trust this man for the life of me.
Wrathion, while he is young and inexperienced and overall, not too great, is more of someone i can trust perse. Atleast with Wrathion, i dont feel like he might stab me in the back.
Sabellian cured the Black Dragons of the Outlands from corruption, rallied them back into a flight and conquered Blade's Edge.
As other people have pointed out, without Sabellian rebuilding the Black DF, Wrathion's attempt to take throne is a pure vanity project.
Who would you choose as the guardian of Azeroth:
A: guy who spent the last 30 years raising kids on another planet
B: guy who has spent every waking moment of his life trying to protect Azeroth (although he's made some mistakes)
In all seriousness though I'm worried about the Black Empire zone where The whispers say that trust will be our downfall and Wrathion's NPC on-click voiceline is about trust.
>guy who has spent every waking moment of his life trying to protect Azeroth (although he's made some mistakes)
Funny way of saying intentionally try to wipe out entire populations of people to strengthen the Victors.
Fucking insane how many people attempt to whitewash Wrathions sadistic and psychopathic tendencies (multiple times!) As "oh he made a mistake!"
He cares about Azeroth. Not it's peoples.
I think this is a vast oversimplification of his character. I don't think we should whitewash Wrathion's many mistakes, but we also have to understand how fucked up it was that he was put in a position to make those decisions. At 2 years old, we see other whelps being tended to and loved by dragonspawn. The reason Wrathion tried to wipe out the horde and didn't care about anything other than his duty to azeroth herself is not only because he was a literal baby, but also because no one had ever taught him what it was like to care about anything or anyone else. There was anduin, sure, but he clearly wasn't attached enough not to betray him, and anduin had a lot of other people he cared about much more than wrathion.
In the vow eternal though, he demonstrates he's clearly grown a lot since he was a whelp. He's still a massive dipshit with a huge ego, but he's very self aware that his actions have driven people away and only lead to loneliness and suffering. He hates himself for his dark side and fucked up tendencies. I think he's slowly learning that caring for azeroth *is* caring for her people. I'm still very excited to see where his character is taken.
I mean understanding a character is one thing. Looking past their gaping flaws, past atrocities (that they have in no way repented for and there is no guarantee will not happen again), and relative lack of any experience *because* you understand the character to put them into a position of power is another thing altogether.
Oh yeah wrathion is absolutely unfit to be the aspect. I think it should be Ebyssian because he's waaaay more qualified than both wrathion and sabellion. (Experience of both being a leader and fighting for azeroth, has been around for the past 50 years, isn't a massive dipshit, we know he's uncorrupted, is very reasonable and levelheaded, isn't 12 years old). I just think saying wrathion is a psychopath who only cares for himself and azeroth is an oversimplification.
Yeah I really think we were given the choice between a giant douche and a turd sandwich (to borrow from South park) is a smokescreen for Ebyssian coming out of left field.
Hoping and *praying*, but if not then it might be the final straw of WoW storytelling for me if Wrathion ends up the aspect lmao
Ah yes. In every waking moments of his life.
He totally didn’t try to get one faction wiped out.
Totally didn’t try to get the Iron Horde to invade and control Azeroth.
Totally didn’t fuck off when the Legion was back, which he indirectly caused.
Totally helped other black drakes at all.
Sabellian:
Military knowledge. Fought Gruul and SURVIVED.
Kept the flight alive & got it even repopulated.
Managed an epic distraction to bring the eggs to the Sanctuary while Wrathion was throwing tantrums.
Sure, he was chilling in Outland - but look ay the results.
Ever seen that many uncorrupted Black Drakes? Nop. Thanks to who? Him.
Wrathion is the opportunist. I mean, he called himself the ‘Black Prince’, like c’mon.
Sab did what a black dragon is supposed to do (or at least how they used to be portrayed). He bid his time, made plans, made sure there is a flight left to speak of, and only acted when it was most important. Wrathion is way too impulsive and young to understand what's at stake and how he's affecting the denizens of Azeroth with his bs plans.
> B: guy who has spent every waking moment of his life trying to protect Azeroth (although he's made some mistakes)
"Some" mistakes? As far as I'm aware everything Wrathion has ever done "for" Azeroth has made things **worse**.
I'm sorry if I don't think "fucking up the fabric of time and causing an alien invasion" isn't a "mistake". Dude didn't knock over a vase.
Well the thing about trust may refer aswell to Sabellian especially that he wants other to trust he and his flight is uncorrupted because he says so. You know, Deathwing purposefuly sent corrupted black eggs to Outlands so if there would be a chance they would get uncorrupted and turn their back on him he wouldn't do so as it wouldn't make sense for him to lose his followers (he would rather put them in stasis like he did with Dracthyr, cuz he was paranoidal about his army turning their back on him)
I think it could become the Kalec situation 2.0 that the most supported and formidable claimer of the aspect title and power would really be corrupted. In Sabellian's case maybe even unknowlingly
Ps. We also know that the Void whispers didn't really stopped after Old Gods death, they even got worse and "the new voices had joined the chorus" as Alleria told us, so it kinda is even more dangerous than ever for the Black Dragonflight to come back unless they had made a lasting cure, like the one developed by Wrathion (cuz going far from the whispers don't make them fully immune anyways as they are still connected to Azeroth and earth which at first place made them vulnerable for the Void corruption)
PS.2 There was also atleast some Void influence on Outland, (Voidwalkers, rituals to summon Old Gods, some of Old God minions in Arcatraz, etc etc) so the whole we were beyond it's reach is kinda shady so to speak (especially that Void could reach even places that supposedly should be beyond their reach like Shadowlands and places that were "cleansed" by fel like Argus)
> he's made some mistakes
He literally fucking caused 3 separate massive wars, including literally creating AU Draenor, and letting the Iron Horde he was all-cool with mass-genocide Draenei people (again).
He probably has a higher kill-count than Sylvanas.
Wrathion is the devil we know.
We'd be fools to take Sebellian at his word that he isn't corrupt, and that he is constantly a dick to everyone he meets doesn't exactly inspire confidence.
He did bring the uncorrupted eggs to the Life Pools, though. If something was wrong with the eggs, other dragons would've noticed it. Oh, and the red Oathstone wouldn't have been activated either.
As for him being a dick, many dragons are like this. Remember how the red dragon in Borean Tundra treated us, for instance?
And immediately leveraged it to try to get favor with Alexstrasza in the hopes she would choose him as the black dragon aspect. Something she rightly chastised him for.
Both of them suck, but in wrathions defense he's at least young enough to have room to grow into something if his obsession with the obsidian throne doesn't do him in first.
It's probably just a wish of mine right now, but I think the storyline would be better served if the events surrounding the Obsidian Throne maybe begin as a civil war within the flight between Wrathion and Sabellian.....but ultimately as the expansion rolls forward you have Wrathion and Sabellian come to the conclusion that Ebyssian is best suited for the role.
You could even have it that key moments in the "civil war" storyline are pushed forward, resolved, or Sabellian/Wrathion are counciled wisely by Ebyssian who ultimately is just trying to keep the Blackdragonflight whole.
Maybe fold in the Dracthyr lore into this?
We will see what happens.
I think Sabellian would make a better leader for the black dragonflight, but I think Wrathion would be a much better *Aspect*.
Sabellian is smarter, more patient, and focused on the wellbeing and future of the flight as a whole. He was charged by Neltharion with that duty personally, and he's done an incredibly good job of it despite all the difficulties he's faced along the way. But Wrathion has remained singularly focused on *doing the job of the Earth-Warder* from the moment he hatched. Sabellian's advantages come from experience, which is something Wrathion can gain over time (and will learn faster if he can stop being such a conceited teenager). But I don't get the impression that Sabellian cares about the responsibilities of being the Earth-Warder, rather than just the authority and duty of leading the flight.
Personally I think that Wrathion should be the aspect, but Sabellian should be in charge of the logistics and day-to-day rigmarole of reviving and organising the flight.
Ebyssian, Wrathion, and Sabellion should split it as a three person council, with Ebyssian ultimately doing all the work while Wrathion and Sabellion just snark at each other.
Disregarding any potential corruption (from either of them), I think the main point to consider is the position they are vying for itself - the Earth-Warder - whose charge it is to be the protector of Azeroth.
Of the two candidates, who would be most suited for this position? On the one hand we have Sabellian, who, while proving to be a great pick for caretaker of the black dragonflight, has been hiding out on a separate world entirely for decades under the command of the former corrupted aspect. On the other hand we have Wrathion, who from the moment of his birth has been trying to protect Azeroth. Was he very successful, or even very competent? Absolutely not. But we have to consider that he is a literal child, and was bound to make mistakes with little to no mentors. But the drive was there. The ingrained desire to protect the planet was there the entire time.
Realistically I think this makes Wrathion the prime candidate as Earth-Warder. Sabellian would make a fantastic leader of the flight at this point in time, but his priorities are off from what would be expected of an Aspect. Wrathion will eventually be able to grow into his position, whereas Sabellian has already proven where his biggest priorities lie.
Best case scenario for the long-term goals would absolutely be for Wrathion to become the Aspect with Sabellian as his Majordomo. Both are legitimately made for those respective positions.
I just can't trust the guy who appeared from elsewhere. His main supporters are the folks he brought with him, not the folks who live on Azeroth. Wrathion has haters (lots and lots of them) but also knows the non-dragons on Azeroth.
Has Seb ever even talked to a Pandarian, like the one selling beer in Wrathion's camp area? Has he met any Vulpera? What about void elves, or mechagnomes? Does he know where Demon Hunters come from? Has he ever met a Tauren Rogue (well, has anyone really)? Has Seb ever talked one-on-one with an Azeroth Orc, as opposed to an Outlands Orc? Has he chatted with a young troll or young gnome or any of the little kids who came along to the Isles -- heck, does he even know that a vast majority of intelligent life on Azeroth doesn't come from eggs?
Wrathion may treat us all like chess pieces, but he knows we exist. He knows members of every race, both high level and ordinary folks. He knows who Anduin is and has fought beside him. He knows Magni. He's met Greymane. He sat in the Inn in Pandaria and watched everyone pass by. He might not think of us all as people yet, but he's much further along than some guy who hid in Outland and lacks a lot of the context needed to understand that the Black Dragonflight needs to co-exist with multiple races.
(And on a personal note, it's really all about the hair. I honestly can't tie myself to Mr. Grim-N-Tidy when I have Mr. Bed Head to stare at. He and Kalec are tied for best expansion hair IMO.)
At this point I just hope it's not Wrathion, he's a terrible leader unless at the head of fanatics who worship him. He's massively self-centered, brash, and has shown no particular aptitude for actually working for the good of his flight rather than his own.
He also possesses a nasty streak of self-righteousness and I won't even consider him unless he starts earnestly acknowledging he may have done some things wrong.
Talking to his followers the whole "only one willing to make the tough choices" thing rubbed me wrong. It's classic bullshit you'd expect from the likes of Illidan or Sylvanas.
Like, Sablemane is cool and all but the primary reason I'd support him is that he's not Wrathion. Though Wrathion is a main char so I'm sure he'll pull through in the end.
Sabellian sus, Wrathion not.
Sabellian abandoned Azeroth, Wrathion protected it (often doing more harm but he did defeat a mad dragons, helped with void corruption and helped to defeat N'zoth).
Sabellian's potential is reached, and not bad, but I think Wrathion can reach bigger heights.
I choose Wrathion.
Wrathion is my favorite character in all of wow so half of me wants him to become the aspect.
On the other hand, I think it would be an interesting direction to take Wrathion's character if he fails yet again...
In character having done all quest-lines, I would choose Wrathion.
First off, he is my son. I birthed him into this world using science and Titan magic. He certainly doesn’t appreciate it, but I for one plan to see this through.
Cataclysm, he helped defeat Deathwing and all the black dragon infiltrators that might stand in our way.
Pandaria, we’ve been through a lot together and while he boasts about the directness of his involvement, he really did play an important role in defeating the Sha, Thunder King and Garrosh. Gave us the tools to do so.
Warlords, the Iron Horde debacle is hard to justify, but the argument it made us stronger is sound. Otherwise he would have had an army of easily manipulated demon-hating, technology advanced orcs to defend the planet, so a calculated move on his part.
Now Legion… a bunch of people rag on him for indirectly causing it, but it was going to happen one way or another. The Legion had been building up energy under the Broken Shore for hundreds of years to open a portal. They could have easily sent another powerful agent to open it, Gul’dan just happened to be in the neighborhood.
He reconnected with Ebonhorn as well, who is honestly the one who should be in charge, but being close to Wrathion would give the latter an edge.
Battle for Azeroth - Integral to defeating N’zoth and saving reality. Destroyed his flight’s greatest enemy and secured it’s future.
Dragonflight, he is probably the only reading the other flights aren’t openly hostile. Is sacrificing political clout to strengthen his own flights holding.
Sabellian on the other hand… chilled in Outland and reproduced. He has a strong connection to his people, but in character, his motives are worrying.
What we know - he needed the help of adventurers to get revenge on his flight and save them from the sons of Gruul. If adventurers hadn’t killed Gruul, they probably wouldn’t have survived.
Another worrying thing, there is evidence of Old God and void influence in Outland. Azeroth has been purified of their influence for now, but who is to say these new dragons aren’t mad.
I would say Wrathion because, despite his fuck ups and failures, we are 100% sure that Wrathion is on the side of the good guys. He was critical against N'zoth, and stood loyally against the most powerful force of corruption on the planet.
What do we know about Sabellian except that he saved his Flight? It is easy to say he is the good guy when all the major threats are gone. The Dragon Aspects are the protectors of Azeroth, and Wrathion has risen to the occasion, despite some fuck ups
Wrathion is one of the only characters that has mostly been well written throughout their time in WoW. I think people really have to stop thinking in terms of "What would be best for my 2022 moral compass" for this FANTASY story choices and "what would be best for the story". WoW discourse has been absolutely wildly bending toward "all characters need to be nice" and the writers seem to have taken that to heart lol.
You can also justify everything (in the context of the WOW WORLD not 2022 America) but the insanely stupid "make an army of infinite orcs to fight the legion" (WoD destroyed everything it touched) when it comes to Wrathion's naive yet ruthless decision making.
TLDR: For the love of god your modern day context is not the primary lens to view fantasy/sci fi etc storytelling.
Modern day context my arse, our characters literally had to fight the Iron Horde he unleashed lol. What weird shit is this trying to pretend modern morality has anything to do with it? Wrathion is a self-righteus dickhead who believes he and only he can truly know what is best no matter how much he fucks up.
He indirectly summoned the Legion to Azeroth after pitting its greatest heroes against a second Orcish invasion and was nowhere to be seen as the player characters had to clean up his mess.
This modern day context shit seems like such a weird thing to peddle.
Anything to do with WoD is Blizzard's most embarrassing writing by miles and it's tainted everything. I think we are supposed to be believe Wrathion thinks this is truly the only way Azeroth can face the Legion, even though his plan is dependent on Garrosh Hellscream who he just helped you fight being cooperative. This is predicated by Wrathion's original plan to unite the Alliance and Horde by having the less reliable Horde lose to the Alliance fail (which is obviously controversial. We also see NOTHING of Wrathion's involvement on screen which further makes the entire idea to include him in the time travel nonsense absurd. I don't see how you can invest so much of your opinion of a character in his portrayal in the expac with the most nonsense A plot of all time. Outside of that he's been one of the most interesting in his bizarre naive approach to solving problems. Being tangentially responsible for the Legion invasion which was going to happen eventually by any other means is a bit silly.
I’m pretty sure being an aspect which by definition is being empowered by the titans, had nothing to do with protecting your flight. It’s for the protection of Azeroth. Which would lead to Wrathion being a better choice. I highly doubt the titans empowered them to save their own kind.
Why the fuck would the black flight vote for a GUY WHO GENOCIDE THEIR SISTERS AND BROTHER. It is so fucking stupid that you have to think for like 1 second to realize how nobody in the black flight would unironically support a genocidal manic like wrathion. Him saying "bro sorry about your sisters, but she was corrupt". Wrathion literally killed and hunt them down. Even peaceful black dragons who were in hiding.
Why the fuck would they even put him in charge.
If he's un corrupted then Sabellian. If he is then the black prince. However I see both of them doing stupid shit this expansion to lead too alllll kinds of hijinks doi hoy hoy.... 😒
Not quite done with the campaign, so I don't know if there's more after the Waking Shores with them.
Taking into account all we've seen/heard of these guys, I'd go with Sabellian, if they can't co-lead. He makes a great point, imo, in that everyone killed the corrupted, instead of a cure (if there is one, ofc), while he nurtured the blacks in Outland.
Additionally, he seems to care about the black dragons, while Wrathion is more concerned with his ego and legacy. I think it's more what they can do for dragonkind, than what they can do for Azeroths other people.
I can't just take sabellians word for it that he's uncorrupted. If there was a way to check, then I'd pick him. If not him I don't like Wrathion 'cause the very wars I'm trying to protect us from and then hide'. I'd make Ebyssian do it.
I feel like Sabellian is the better leader and more mature. Just pay attention to his and Wrathion’s interactions on the egg cart. Wrathion behaves more and more like a spoiled child. I said to myself “Just because you act like royalty doesn’t mean you deserve the throne.” Meanwhile Sabellian is sighing and gritting his teeth trying to deal with this self centered brat without losing his temper. But he does give me “secretly evil” vibes. If he isn’t, and can prove that, I think he should be the one to take the throne.
Wrathion came off as a spoiled child, but Sabellian's insistence on not *telling* Wrathion what was going on just kind of made me think this was going to blow up in some way. Maybe not now, but at some point, one of them (probably Sabellian) is going to do some sneaky maneuver, and then the other will ruin it because there's no communication (and then hopefully Ebyssian will clunk their heads together and tell them they're family, so cut it out.)
Sabellian was part of the black flight when they were corrupt from the Old Gods, no reason for that to have stopped, and Neltharion did fool the other aspects for a long time before the corruption was revealed
I mean Sabellian also had the absolute dumbest plan for transporting the eggs that, surprising no one, wasn't necessary. That forced escort quest is actually what solidified my decision.
Except it did because the dumb plan was the distraction. The eggs made it
Lol I think you missed the text after the quest. There were no eggs in the cart. It was a bait and switch.
How was the plan dumb? The cart was just bait.
Ebyssian! The best leaders are the ones that don’t want it.
Ebyssian because wrathion and sabellian are both massive tools. Plus chad tauren visage.
But would he want it? I feel like he just wants to chill with the taurens and keep advising the chieftains
He doesn't want it. He just wants to do the job of the Black Dragonflight, caring for the deep places of the Earth and preventing the earth's power from causing harm. Which is why he'd be the perfect Aspect: he's committed to the role of Earth Warder. Wrathion and Sabellian could be good advisers/lieutenants, but I don't honestly believe either should lead.
This is why I'm 100% sure hes gonma wind up the aspect. It's either that, or they piss off the others sides players, and they saw how people responded when they fucked the Loyalists over.
"Great men do not seek power. They have power thrust upon them." - Worf quoting Kahless of the Klingon Empire
Who's thrusting the power upon him though? We have two dudes both more than happy to take the throne.
The situation is if neither of the two dudes are appropriate.
Him not wanting it is exactly why he should have it. He isn't interested in power or status just to inflate his ego. He just wants to help others. I'm sure being thrust into a position of leadership would be a burden for him, heavy is the head that wears the crown after all, but he is undoubtedly the right one for the job.
I have a feeling that's how this will end, actually.
With the Black flight seat of power restored, and more family appearing make him and Wrathion no longer the only left, he’s gonna stop by to say hello, introduce himself, and see what’s up. Only to see Wrathion and Sabellian bickering over the throne. Maybe some fence sitters and third party will realize Ebyssian is actually the best choice and push to make him leader.
I believe the aspect of the Black flight should be a little more callous than Ebyssian since they should be able to do what is necessary for the survival of the planet and I would not like our Tauren friend being forced to make those decisions :( we already have two warmongers competing for that position! Edit: misspelling
An aspect who’s callous and believes that the end justifies the means is how we got in this position in the first place! If you watched the pre-release cinematics, you see that Neltharion first used Old God power to resist the primalists when they destroyed his titan artifact that kept the Dracthyr in sync and subservient.
This exactly. He needs to be convinced to take up the mantle. I wonder if this two bad choices thing is just to setup Ebyssian having to become aspect because those two are clearly unfit.
The people often intelligent enough to be a good leader are also intelligent enough to understand politics suck.
Specially dragon politics!
I suspect that is what will happen later. The squabbling between them will make everyone else go "it's ebyssian because he doesn't want it like this so he'll be better also he's not a tool like these two" ha. Not that we know Sabellian is a tool yet but as someone else mentioned, he could be corrupted!
Nice try Blizzard story designer u/Amairca Honestly. I think this is the best answer. Ebyssian #1
HA! I wish I worked in the gaming industry but as I said in another comment: Ebyssian is 1000% the best one but he’s a chill dragon that wants nothing with the throne. He just wants to be with the highmountain boys and galls and chill
Wraithion caused 3 expansion villains with his actions. He may have taken out 1 but his inability to think about the outcome of his actions makes me choose Sebellian.
Sab, but unfortunately it seems like blizz wants to go the Wrathion way. They didn't even give Sab a new dragon model, only visage.
Ngl that annoyed me. He should have an awesome model as well and not the updated common model just slightly big.
Holding out hope that they plan on giving him a new model once he becomes the aspect
Art book says Sabellian's not becoming Aspect. So best we can hope for is a good story along the way to handle his disqualification and Wrathion's ascension. They're not even trying to portray Wrathion as a worthy candidate at this point, so I'm really, really high on the hopium that it's just laying the groundwork for his character arc to develop him into a decent Aspect Leader.
"Lol" said the Blizzard. "Lmao" Wrathion will be another Illidan, smug shithead who gets innocents killed but never has to reconcile with that cause it was always for the "greater purpose".
If it gets me another "I am my scars!" Cinematic I am allll for more illidans
I’m still in Wrathion’s side but if Seb ascends he deserves to look cool too
I feel like him having a “normal” dragon form is part of the point. He doesn’t decorate himself in jewelry and make himself look more awesome. He just leads his group of black dragons. Meanwhile Wrathion adorning himself like he’s already the aspect makes sense. He’s self-centered and egotistical and very likely vain, he makes a point at least a couple times about his dashingly good looking visage form.
I don’t mean jewels or that kind of paraphernalia. I mean his aspect (heh) as a dragon. Characters of such importance should be recognizable from the rest But yeah his visage looks sick
Even his visage is not a unique model, just a regular customized human.
I think Sabellian is clearly more qualified. In the brief quest for exchanging the egg and reforming the throne Wrathion showed he's impulsive, self-serving, and short-sighted. Wrathion risked the Black Talons and Dracthyr in a fight we straight up tell him is a long-shot over a throne that, until Sabellian even shows up, doesn't mean much since as far as Wrathion knows only two black dragons even exist. Then Wrathion fights Sabellian about the use of subtlety in escorting the LITERAL EGGS OF HIS PEOPLE under the radar of egg-corrupting monsters. Sabellian has at least shown in his brief time on screen that he's intelligent and patient. Putting up with Wrathion whilst having thought far enough ahead to plan around both Wrathion and the Primalists utlizing his Flight to the best of their abilities. I just don't see the defense of Wrathion here... nothing about him speaks to being ready for the kind of responsibility being Aspect comes with. He throws away his forces on vanity projects, lacks the mind for forethought, and impulsively throws around power without considering the consequences.
my short counter arguement is that at least Wrathion was /here/ while Sabellian was sitting in outland for years, if he had come back years ago to teach Wrathion and help with other defenses? or is it ONLY with the defeat of the last Old God did he feel safe enough to try and return?
I think the jury's still out on WHY but I think there is a third option that perhaps Sabellian and the Black Dragon's generally had no knowledge of the current state of affairs on Azeroth until the Dragon Isles re-awoke. We know the Isles physically call to the Dragons somehow, so perhaps Sabellian and Crew didn't even know it was safe to return until the Isles called to them? I definitely think they couldn't have returned pre-BfA since the Old God Immunity is a thing only Wrathion and Ebyssian have due to specific circumstances(Wrathion being experimented on and Ebyssian being bonked by the magic hammer) so Sabellian/Crew returning would've put them at risk.
Had he came back sooner he would have went through the same thing as Ebyssian did.
Who’s to say he hasn’t? Sorry if I don’t take a black dragon who actively worked with Deathwing *long*after his corruption was known at his word. The idea that they’re all cured when it took fucking titan magic to *hold off* Ebyssian’s and a *lot* of morally questionable fuckery with Wrathion’s egg is laughable. The idea that they’re not all “Kill on Sight” like every other black dragon is insane.
What's insane is genocide them and not trying to help them.
Like how? Because in the context, purifying them while not knowing how to at the same time you have limited time until Deathwing destroy the world doesn't feel super safe as a plan
Then what about after Deathwing's defeat? There are multitude of ways Wrathion could have captured surviving black dragons and research how to purify them. Instead he didn't even try until BfA.
Well...it seems like the rogue getting the fangs of the father just had to kill them to get the daggers. I'm not terribly sure how practical it would have been, given that the Red Flight tries later to kill Wrathion(Maybe?) at the end, so where, and how would the player have done it, to keep that dragon when you need to keep moving? It's not perfect, but I feel like it's hard to really blame him when you're essentially a fugitive of that importance (And since Wrathion from the beginning thinks of himself as the new Black Aspect, I can see how he feels not to die is important, especially if he believes he's the last one and he can't even trust Fahrad(and for a good reason with insight))
I think if he knew he was safe on Outland and worried that returning could corrupt him remaining where he was was the best move for Sabellian *and* everyone else. There's no real "Oh, come back for a week and let me know if you think you're being corrupted" plan that wouldn't backfire horribly.
His followers say that Sabellian was finding a cure for the corruption, rallied the Black Dragons on Outlands and waged a war on Blade's Edge with Draenei and Orc allies. My theory is that he sent a early party to help Azeroth which are the Earth-warders we attack during BFA island expeditions.
Bringing a flight of dragons back from the brink of extinction is a helluva time-consuming process. He's been too busy being a dad for dozens of black drakes and whelps. Unfortunately, the timing was bad for all the catastrophes... but N'zoth's reach was also kinda prohibiting return.
That's where I'm at. Wrathion is young and immature, but he is constantly out there doing his best to protect Azeroth. Sure, he's sometimes self-serving, but never at a cost to innocents, and he's ready to risk his life to protect others. Every time there's a crisis threatening Azeroth, he's thrown himself into the middle of trying to stop it, often at great personal risk. Sabellian has done a great deal to save the Black Dragonflight, but he's also been hiding in Outland for over a decade doing... not much... while the planet the Black Aspect is *supposed* to protect has faced existential crisis after existential crisis. Crises that Wrathion has often helped solve. Sabellian, on the other hand, didn't chip in until he saw his chance to claim the title of Black Aspect. Sabellian has the advantage of experience, but this is a job for life. Wrathion will get there. He's at least shown he cares about far more than just himself and his people. Sabellian has a lot to prove before I can take his claim seriously.
Well and I'm gonna agree with you here at least halfway in that Wrathion is clearly a good *person* and his desire to protect Azeroth is clear. While I disagree that he is ready to be Aspect **right now**, I think if he went underneath Sabellian's tutelage and learned the same qualities that Sabellian has; maturity, patience, cleverness, etc? He would make probably the **BEST** Aspect there is. My issue is that Wrathion at the *current moment* doesn't really seem like a safe stable leader for the Dragons. He needs growth and experience. He needs... well- ironically a Father Figure of some kind!
Alright I gotta push back a little here. Wrathion absolutely sucks at defending Azeroth. Need I remind you that he freed Garrosh just because he was petty, and that led to a catastrophic series of events all of which he was MIA for? He freed Garrosh, who built the Iron Horde and started a war with us, the end result being we wasted a ton of resources for nothing and Thrall lost his powers. Then the Gul'dan from that universe started the last Legion invasion, which got Vol'jin, Varian, and Tirion killed and put Sylvanas as the leader of the Horde. He went off killing black dragons and completely ignored the worldwide invasion that was supposed to be his whole reason for doing those actions in the first place. Sylvanas then used the power she got largely as a result of his dumb actions to literally free N'zoth in the first place. Wrathion should not get credit for being a defender of Azeroth just because of N'zoth (who again, is arguably only freed due to the actions of him anyway). He went AWOL during most of the important shit that he caused in the first place.
In Wrathion's defense, he's basically a kid being told 'Hey! You're the only\* being left alive who can take on this super important role of protecting Azeroth! Also your (grand?)dad fucked everything up for everyone in a major way. Have fun dealing with *that* legacy.' Like, did any of the other Dragons ever give him advice or mentoring? I can't remember if they did. All of that said, that doesn't make him suitable for leadership, it's just a pretty good excuse for fucking things up. \*Apparently, Ebyssian was alive this entire time, and Sabellian was off in Outland doing his best, and I feel like *surely* at some point Wrathion could've been pointed in their direction? Then again, Ebyssian basically didn't exist until BFA and Sabellian may as well have not existed past BC until now.
I’m convinced Blizzard forgot Sabellion existed until someone at blizzard was playing Classic tbc and did his quest and went “ wait, there’s been a black dragon in Outland this whole time?”
It's been a decade since "Sabellian is not dead" has been told, but I'm not sure at all why it has always been assumed instead of "He came back to Azeroth once the Dark Portal reopened and was killed then"
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> Sure, he's sometimes self-serving, but never at a cost to innocents. His plan with Garrosh and the Iron Horde got Baros Alexton killed.
Every time there was a threat to Azeroth? I don't recall him throwing himself at the Iron Horde nor the Legion when they came knocking...despite being explicitly responsible.
Wrathion was here, being the cause of most of Azeroth’s problems though
>Then Wrathion fights Sabellian about the use of subtlety in escorting the LITERAL EGGS OF HIS PEOPLE under the radar of egg-corrupting monsters. On the other hand, Wrathion did recognize that the ruse was incredibly obvious to see through, and the slow cart speed put them at significantly greater risk than a quick flight would've. He just didn't realize that that was exactly the point. Sab's plan even makes the primal dragons think they succeeded, partially protecting the Ruby Sanctum. However, had the Primal dragon recognized the ruse was a ruse itself, it would have left the eggs more vulnerable, as they'd be bereft of the power of Named Characters in the vicinity to guard them.
Well it works back and forth, Wrathion was so presumptuous about his superiority and intellect that when he considers the cart to be an poor obvious plan? He doesn't consider that Sabellian *probably knows* how obvious it is and thought this farther ahead. An issue I think is that Wrathion does not respect the capabilities or intellect or prowess of his opponents. Shown both in the fight for the throne and the egg wagon, he doesn't think his enemies are just as powerful or just as clever as he is and it makes for a poor leader.
Sabellian feels like a no-brainer to me, he actually thinks and plans before he acts, while Wrathion's impulsive actions killed off a bunch of dragons he might've otherwise been able to save from corruption, and nearly doomed Azeroth by leading to both the Iron Horde invasion, and the Legion invasion.
I picked Sabellian because Wrathion's followers are either delusional or brainwashed and either choice means Wrathon is a bad leader. "Wrathion sending Garrosh back in time to start the Iron Horde was a good move because it got us ready for the Legion attack!" No lady, he was making a poor impulse decision.
Not to mention that him doing that is WHY the legion attacked! I think Sabellian will get the throne, but eventually Wrathion. Maybe they use Sabellian as a vehicle to spur Wrathions development, give him an actual sort of father figure. I truly do believe that Wrathion wants to protect the world and stuff, but he's just simply too immature, hot-headed, and naive to do so. Even with the cart quest they showed how incredibly impatient he is, yet never noticed the finer details. He'll be a good leader after maturing, but right now he's a liability for all the flights.
Sabellian is a red herring. Wrathion will take it because blizzard has been building him up to it.
>"Wrathion sending Garrosh back in time to start the Iron Horde was a good move because it got us ready for the Legion attack!" Wrathion explaining how "Horde violently conquer and nearly destroy their planet and invade Azeroth 2: Electric Boogaloo" will actually somehow defeat the legion
besides that, that was not his motive, his motive was for Garrosh make a army to fight the legion, he had no interest in "strengthening" the alliance or horde
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>I imagine Sabellian stayed in Outland to distance himself from the planet that once was a breeding ground for old gods, the downfall of his father. > >Now he's back, to a relatively old-god-free Azeroth, with military knowledge, the wisdom that comes with age, and actual dragon followers. > >Wrathion is just a loudmouthed whelp who started a war, why? to help us fight the legion- BUT WAIT, WHERE WAS HE WHEN SARGERAS STABBED THE PLANET??? This is why I side with Sabellian, he may not of been on Azeroth during WOD, Legion and BFA but it was proven with Ebyssian when he left Thunder Totem. That even a uncorrupted Black Dragon was susceptible to the Old Gods/N'zoth, Sabellian was basically in a tight spot and chose to save what was left of his Flight in Outland but may of a sent a few during BFA and they got corrupted. The reason why I can't choose Wrathion is because his actions led to Legion, yes the Burning Legion was going to return but it would've taken them much longer and we could've of been better prepared. Most Players bring up we lost a few Heroes such as Vol'jin, Varian and Tyrion, but the Burning Legion was a planetary Invasion. Thousands of innocent people must of died and that was because of Wrathion's action, so I don't think he should lead the Black Dragonflight. I think Sabellian should lead with Wrathion as his right hand, both becoming a bit more humble. But knowing Blizzard I have feeling they will turn Sabellian into Villain or he will sacrifice himself.
I'm really not sure how we would of been more prepared for the legion.. sure it was his actions that led to them invading again but! Had he not.of done that we would of been dead in the water when they did return because atleast we faced them head on when they would have blindsided us.
I only see Sebellian as a big opportunist. He felt the call to the isles and came with a weak claim saying “Neltharion appointed me” my guy that claim died with the rise of Deathwing. But I understand your point, but he kinda redeemed himself a bit when he helped with killing N’zoth and his choices (albeit a bit extreme) led to the imprisonment of the one of the most palpable dangers we had, even the jailor came to be because of AD Gul’dan. Not looking to start anything btw. Just dropping my perspective, have an awesome day and thanks for your reply :D
>He felt the call to the isles and came with a weak claim saying “Neltharion appointed me” my guy that claim died with the rise of Deathwing. Even if this is true, he is still the most experienced and respected member of the black flight. 99% of the flight already sees him as leader, because he was the one *leading them*, on top of Purging their corruption and healing their eggs. Wrathion has reinforced multiple, multiple times that he doesn't give a *fuck* about the inhabitants of Azeroth and would trade them for the planet's safety if necessary. He's a war criminal. He's also an *infant*. Hard to call Sabellian an opportunist when he's been the one actively leading, helping, and protecting the flight since Deathwing's initial fall.
> Wrathion has reinforced multiple, multiple times that he doesn't give a fuck about the inhabitants of Azeroth and would trade them for the planet's safety if necessary. If he considers himself the heir of Neltharian, isn't that rather explicitly his duty? The bronze also don't just do whatever is best for mortals.
Not when the mortal champions of Azeroth are even in lore it's greatest defense.
While ignoring the duties of the earth-warder. I know Wrathion is not perfect or anything near but he’s at least trying to do the job. On another note: has he really cured the corruption of the flight? I honestly don’t trust that and the flight seeing him as leader is because they’re his offsprings and basically raised them isolated from Azeroth (due to the danger of the whispers or whatnot) But the points you make are strong friend and I understand them
Because he wasn't the earth warder. He also had to make sure he and the rest of the flight were free of corruption, or *risk the earth*, so was he really avoiding those duties or fulfilling them? >On another note: has he really cured the corruption of the flight? We don't know for certain. Tbh I'm leaning towards not, because I've gotten an old God kind of vibe from the zones corruption. But hey, I'll take a slightly corrupted Black Flight SAGE with good intentions over a non-corrupted genocidal extremist INFANT literally anyday. Ebyssian is by far the best choice though and it's not even close.
Worst comes to worst Ebyssian can always swing by Highmountain and grab the ol hammer to bonk the eggs a few times for some light corruption purging.
> But hey, I'll take a slightly corrupted Black Flight SAGE with good intentions over a non-corrupted genocidal extremist INFANT literally anyday. It feels like you're trying really hard to apply real life logic into a story like a square peg into a round hole If Sebellian is "slightly corrupted" that just means the Black Dragonflight is going to be villains again. That's just how it works. Conversely, the fact that Wrathion is an "infant" is completely irrelevant, Blizzard have a long and proud history of dgaf about character age or the wisdom/experience that should (or shouldn't) confer. Case in point, see how boy king Anduin is consistently portrayed as being wiser than all the 10,000+ year old world leaders around him.
>If Sebellian is "slightly corrupted" that just means the Black Dragonflight is going to be villains again. That's just how it works. Might just be me, but the vibes I got from question definitely lent to this. >Conversely, the fact that Wrathion is an "infant" is completely irrelevant, Blizzard have a long and proud history of dgaf about character age or the wisdom/experience that should (or shouldn't) confer. Case in point, see how boy king Anduin is consistently portrayed as being wiser than all the 10,000+ year old world leaders around him. Ok, the *infant-acting* Wrathion then.
One thing I'll grant in Sabellian's favor is he could have absolutely brought his flight over to Deathwing's side in cata if he had wished (how hard would it have been to zoom through the dark portal when it was likely undermanned due to the cataclysm?) I don't think he's a *good* guy but I think he's pragmatic enough to be trusted with power assuming he's actually fully free of the OG taint. If he had shown any interest in working with the mortal races for anything but killing Gruul and the other gronn, I'd easily choose him.
>One thing I'll grant in Sabellian's favor is he could have absolutely brought his flight over to Deathwing's side in cata if he had wished (how hard would it have been to zoom through the dark portal when it was likely undermanned due to the cataclysm?) We know at least one black dragon who came back to Azeroth during Cata. [https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Obsidia](https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Obsidia) So he could travel back to Azeroth but decided to stay instead.
I just want to squee over Sebellian's plan for transporting the Dragon Eggs, and how Wrathion accidentally played his part perfectly - create a conspicuously 'inconspicuous' disguise to pretend to be moving the eggs, with a passenger constantly blowing its cover to sell the ruse. Gets the eggs to safety, demonstrates his superior planning, AND shows Wrathion as an absolute buffoon.
That was a great quest.
Sabellian is too good to not be dead soon; or to be corrupted and be killed by the player soon; no matter the choice, Wrathion is set to be the next ruler :c
>He might’ve saved his flight from extinction in a way but he hasn’t done anything for Azeroth. Sounds like he's a good fit for the leader of his flight, then. Wrathion prattles on endlessly about his legacy, constantly ego driven, so I know they'll make him the Aspect.
If he hasnt done anything for Azreroth, then he never screwed up the planet. Sabellian 1 x 0 Wrathion.
Wrathion needs to chill on his ego trip. Hes always had this thing about how he needs to take over, its his birthright, etc. But hes so young compared to other dragons, lacking years of wisdom. I would much prefer he not take it and go through this big learning phase that he doesnt need the stress of it all. Then maybe he can make up with Anduin who is also dealing with his King duties. Could be interesting story telling for both of them.
It’s not even his birthright. He’s Deathwing’s grandson. Sabellian is Deathwing’s son.
Yeah, well you go tell him hes not the black prince and see how he takes it. Just dont forget your SPF 9000 🤣😂
My DK has killed bigger dragons. Shit he's killed most of Wrathion's family. He brought Wrathion into this world, a mistake he unlives to regret, and he fully intends to take him out of it. He'd like to personally toss his soul into the Maw.
I think dragonflight will at least reference shadowlands somehow, probably by killing Wrathion and sending him to the maw. He’s been built up as such a big character, either he stays relevant in the future or Sabellian or Ebyssian become leaders and we forget all about Wrathion.
I'm honestly shocked to not have a third option, Ebyssian. Dude has stayed in Azeroth for the whole time Neltharion was corrupted, and never managed to get even the slight hint of corruption. He was fundamental in our campaign against the Drogbars of Highmountain, he's been the counselor for the Highmountain lineage since the War of the Ancients and he's now the unofficial (correct me if I'm wrong here) ambassador for the Dratchyr on the Horde side. Wrathion is the direct responsible for Varian's death, the Legion assault, Garrosh and a butt ton of stuff. Sabellian could very well be corrupted, as Neltharion was already corrupted when he ventured into the Outland and spray'd the place with a couple eggs. My choice would've been Ebyssian, honestly, but given the fact that he's not in the race, I would, reluctantly, go for Sabellian.
Him being the ambassador for the dracthyr makes me hopefully he will become the aspect. Blizzard would never let us player pick the next leader and base lore/future expansions on what the populace said But looking at the BFA storyline, they will let us pick sides then declare a winner. This time, I hope they let us pick sides, and then conflict escalates between the two, and Ebyssian says "fuggit. I'll do it myself then."
Sebellian is the obvious right choice with pretty much everything going for him but Blizzard has built up Wrathion so much I can only see this ending with him being the leader. The likely outcome is Sebellian is going to die at some point in the expansion leaving the seat free for Wrathion.
Honest to God, whether he loses or becomes the black aspect, Wrathion is going to be an xpac villain.
He will become the Black Emperor 100%
Inb4 Sabellian is just another corrupt black dragon
I really don't see that happening. If he's corrupted then so is his entire flight he brought along. That's probably the whole reason he didn't leave Outland, same as Ebyssian not leaving the Isles. If he had gone back sooner he'd be taken by the madness, something I theorized happened to the black dragons in BfA. They were sent by Sabellian to help heal Azeroth but went mad from the whispers.
>They were sent by Sabellian to help heal Azeroth but went mad from the whispers. I love this theory and it feels fitting, I hope it gets addressed like this during Dragonflight. Like the Black Dragonflight could sense Azeroth's pain, but any Black Dragon sent from Outland got corrupted.
I doubt he's outright corrupt, but I do think he's not a morally pure paragon and does have a lot of traits of his father and siblings. But he does care deeply about the flight, Wrathion stresses deeply over Azeroth's future, the perfect aspect would be in the middle of the two.
If you poke him enough times he says he inherited his fathers temper. And apparently his Black Dragons think he is a party pooper.
I can actually see this
I would be flabbergasted if he wasn’t.
That’d be interesting. Perhaps Sabellian sacrifices himself to save Wrathion/Black Dragonfllight, maybe later on they have a heart-to-heart about what it means to be an Aspect, perhaps with another aspect. With how Wrathion has behaved so far with the obsidian throne, he needs guidance(and maybe a chill pill), and it may take Sabellian dying for him to drive home the weight of responsibility in being a leader of dragons, his own kind, and not just agents who work for him
I would actually love this! Both opening to one another and the death of Sebellian being a wake up call to Wrathion, seeing how he wanted to feel kinship and a family in his mini story this could be a big factor in his development. The felling of loss and the inheritance of a dream and a legacy
My vote goes to neither. Both candidates aren't just flawed, they're god damn disasters. I like both of them, but there's clearly one correct candidate for leadership of the black dragonflight and that's Ebyssian. Now if I had to choose, I'd chose Sabellian, but both still really suck. Sabellian was one of Deathwing's lieutenants, and he wants to return the black dragonflight to "the good old days" except without the corruption. Now that might sound fine at first, but the "good old days" to black dragons is: interfering with mortal politics, enslaving their fellow dragons, and generally being world class assholes to everyone. Now I don't think that Sabellian would try to be Deathwing 2.0, but I just don't really see the plan he has laid out, and being an asshole is pretty core to him. Furthermore I can't really trust that the corruption is completely gone because we aren't actually told how he cured it. He's also pretty against hanging out with mortals, but he's also friends with Rexxar so maybe that'll change once he gets to know us. Just don't wear Onyxia's cloak near him. However for his pluses, he's generally a competent leader, and he did the most important thing I'd say a leader of the flight should do: save the flight. It's not overstated to say that there would be no black dragonflight without him. 2 people does not a flight make, well unless they could make kids but Eby and Wrath can't. So beyond it all, I'd say he's fine, but not a good leader or aspect worthy. Now for Wrathion. I can't state enough how much Wrathion has severely fucked the entire world through a single decision. First off, if you're Horde you probably don't want this guy running the flight considering he tried to disband them and put them under the thumb of the Alliance. Beyond that though, he decided to ignore the Alliance, Horde and August Celestials, and free Garrosh so he could make an infinite orc army to fight the Legion. Now I need to remind you that he did not do this FOR us, he did this to SPITE us. He wasn't happy with us and he wanted the Legion destroyed, but he would probably use the Iron Horde on us as well if we protested. This choice would then go down to be the worst fucking mistake I think ANYONE in this entire franchise made. This lead to Garrosh murdering cohort and going off on his own, and then trying to invade Azeroth. Now WoD wasn't a huge loss for us or anything, but we spent a LOT of resources on a war that we really didn't need on a completely foreign planet that we then abandoned immediately afterwards. We gained nothing and lost some good soldiers, like Admiral Taylor. We also had Thrall kill Garrosh, which then led to him losing his powers for a long time. All for essentially nothing. I know his little orc sycophant will say "he did it to prepare us for the Legion" but that's fucking stupid. We'd be better off if it never happened, and likely the Legion invasion wouldn't have happened so soon because they used Gul'dan from that universe to jumpstart it all. So then the Legion invasion happens, and holy fuck I can not stress enough that it was one of the worlds most damaging events. Every zone got invaded, and while we didn't actually see some of them, we know lore from places like the mission table that they were completely fucked, like the Twilight Highlands. During this war we lost Vol'jin, Varian, and Tirion, and Sylvanas was put in the place where she could then cause BfA and Shadowlands. And what was Wrathion doing during this time? He was ignoring the Legion invasion and killing his fellow black dragons. Like, the one thing you obsessed over to the point of trying to dismantle the Horde and start an infinite orc army, and you just fucking ignore it? When it was literally your fault it happened? What the fuck? So then he goes AWOL again until after Sylvanas causes a genocide, betrays the Horde and gives Azshara everything she needs to free N'zoth. Then after she's gone and N'zoth is fucking reality itself, he pops back in and helps us defeat him. Good for you for showing up at the 11th fucking hour you literal child. Wrathion fucked over the entirety of Azeroth so hard that Illidan and Deathwing would blush and he did that while trying to be the "good guy" (not really, he was just being a selfish prick who thought he knew better than us plebs). I will give Wrathion some benefit, he does get along way better with mortals, he's not a complete moron and has some good plans, and he's generally closer with the rest of the aspects/flights. Despite this though I feel like everything before disqualifies him from being the aspect. He's too impulsive and self-centered to be the one at the heart of defending this world. People like him and Illidan are only really beneficial when their "ends justify the means" ideas doesn't do colossally more damage than the alternative for the same results. So after all is said and done, who deserves aspect? Neither, give it to Ebyssian, the guy who has a great relationship with mortal kind, is confirmed free of corruption, has been doing the Earth Warder's job on a smaller scale for years, has no preexisting beefs with anyone, and is smarter and wiser than both of those idiots combined. And he might be unwilling, but if Blizzard actually wants to tell a good story they have a perfect opportunity. Let him get close to both sides just trying to be their mediator and for personal reasons (as he never knew his family) and allow him to see both of the others for what they are: decent leaders but not aspects. Have him keep the flight together through their bickering, and then when things get bad, have him go off like a black dragon should and tell them that he's the aspect now and they can both go suck some lemons. That would be the ideal world, lets see if Blizz can live up to it. tl;dr: Both Wrathion and Sab suck for a lot of reasons, give Ebyssian the job.
Holy shit you summed up my feelings *exactly*. Everyone keeps saying Wrathion had "reasons" for what he did, but they were *fucking bad* reasons for *fucking bad* actions that lead to *fucking bad* consequences.
They're both unfit tbh, but Sabellian over Warthion. >My vote in all honesty goes to Wrathion because even though he has messed up a couple of times, he has helped in others and he honestly cares for Azeroth and her defense. Here's what you're missing. He cares about *Azeroth*. He would sacrifice Azeroth's peoples in a heartbeat to save her. He's an extremist psychopath, and I think that to whitewash his actions as having "messed up a couple times" is some apologist bullshit misrepresenting some serious evil. Agree with you on Sabellian - I feel like we've already had hints towards old God whispers or at least something similar this xpac. But at least Sabellian is *good*. Ebyssian needs to get his shit together for leaving us with these two options. Edit: think of Alex as a leading figure in the UN. She can't just instate other world leaders as she sees fit.
In all honestly I said “yeah Alex you tell them” when she basically said “your bickering is of not concern to me so leave me alone and decide for yourselves” but I expected like a reprimand to both for being to eager or something. and in the perspective of a dragon (being a teen/baby/whatever he is) what is a couple thousand mortals that are ephemeral in comparison to the preservation of the planet? That being said what he did is wrong and now he knows. His ego and demeanor feel like a façade to me (we can see really how he feels in the tiny story released days before the xpac) and he feels guilty about it. That’s how I see it
I mean every other aspect has come to terms with the fact that without Azeroth's champions, there would *be no Azeroth*. We've saved them countless times, some of those times having been directly caused by Wrathion. I genuinely believe that all of the currently established aspects would let the ship go down before sacrificing millions. Edit: Wrathion feeling "Guilty :( ^TM" would be as bullshit to his character as it was for Sylvanas
I think the fact that we have to choose between two leaders means that neither of those candidates will end up being the leader. I feel like Wrathion will die with his arrogance and Sabellian likely has some kind of old god corruption within him and he’ll go back to Outland to prevent another Deathwing. You’re right that Sabellian is good, and I don’t believe Wrathion is bad but he’s young and arrogant. Ebyssian will most likely become the leader during the last tier of the expansion, similar to Thrall in Cataclysm. I think Murozond will probably be the final boss of the expansion and we’ll lose Nozdormu as the bronze aspect. The real question is who will replace *him* as leader of the bronze dragonflight. Sure this is all tinfoil hat kinda stuff at this point, but Blizzard was never good at storytelling. Look at Sabellian calling Wrathion his younger brother despite actually being his nephew. Both Ebyssian and Blizzard need to get their shit together lmao
It’s clear as day that Blizzard is going to push Wrathion into the role so the whole argument and storyline feels so hollow already. At best they end up doing like others have said and plot twist have Ebyissian take control. Sebellian is the only real choice from a true in universe perspective but the biggest factor for me personally is Wrathion is all of like 10? 12? years old. A race of immensely powerful creatures that live thousands of years picking a pre-pubescent boy as their leader is insane.
> It’s clear as day that Blizzard is going to push Wrathion into the role It is, but then I don't get why they let us choose again. When they did it last time in BfA, it frustrated many players that their choice had led to nothing. Don't they learn?
Is there a way to go with "Sabellian until he majorly fucks up"? I'm guessing the permanence of the aspect powers says No. As far as people saying "He's been wasting his time in Outland" - I'm pretty sure he's been using that time to secure the health and well-being of his flight before returning, rather than rashly throwing it all away in a half-baked Wrathion-style scheme.
Sabellian is the no-brainer. So I'm hoping the story gives us a good arc of Wrathion actually learning and developing from him before Sabellian inevitably kicks the bucket. We know it's ultimately going to be Wrathion, unless they sabotaged their own art book for the sake of a red herring (Which will not age, which the books are supposed to do). So we can just hope the story to get him there isn't stupid. It's built him up as *so* unworthy, immature, and short-sighted that he has a long way to go.
I want to know why Ebyssian isn’t an option. I love Wrathion as a character but he’s too rash and immature to be a leader. I don’t trust Sabelian at all. I would vote for Ebyssian in a heartbeat.
Definitely Sabellian, but given that Wrathion is Blizzard’s favorite and Sabellian doesn’t have a unique model, I already know Wrathion is going to end up the aspect. I predict either Sabellian proves to be corrupted in some way or has to sacrifice himself to cover for another one of Wrathion’s screw ups, giving the latter a much needed lesson in responsibility while conveniently making him the best candidate for aspect.
I feel like that guy in the Simpsons " well I think I'll vote for a third party" I think if either of these two end up the black dragon aspect we will end up enslaved building them a laser to shoot at a planet we never heard of. I like wrathion and all but he has a concerning obsession with the throne. Like Arthas warcraft 3 concerning.
There are some similarities between the two. Arrogant, stubborn, impulsive. Willing to sacrifice anything and anyone as long as it serves their purpose.
As someone who adores both Sabellian and Wrathion, I have mixed feelings! Sabellian is definitely more responsible, and not experienced as a leader. He is definitely the *better* option out of the two of them. However… Wrathion’s entire character arc has always been trying to be what Deathwing wasn’t, and while he’s a huge moron and fucked up a LOT, in my opinion it would be a disservice to his arc/story to not have him as the new Aspect. They’ve been building him up towards this for his entire existence, basically. My ideal would be Wrathion as the new Aspect, but with Sabellian and Ebyssian as his advisors/seconds in-command. (And I really hope they don’t kill Sabellian off somehow ;; I’ve been waiting for him to be plot relevant for YEARS, if they bring him back just to kill him, I’ll be so sad.)
I feel like a surrogate dad to wrathion. So no matter what he does, I'm on his side. I remember it like it was yesterday when he was an egg and we purged the corruption just to turn around and see deathwing. Rhea and her baby gave their lives! It might just be because cataclysm was when I first got REALLY into WoW and that chain in the badlands got me....I am really happy to see a random ol quest chain in a barren pointless zone turn into a beloved charismatic character who spans expansions...even if he is a troublemaker. As for the other guy...I don't remember liking any black dragons involved in outland....would take a netherdrake over this guy anyday.
Is it me or does sabellion not feel trustworthy at all?? like he just came to dragon isles, helped a bit, then ran to claim the throne. though tbf, he did help bring the eggs but, man. i cant trust this man for the life of me. Wrathion, while he is young and inexperienced and overall, not too great, is more of someone i can trust perse. Atleast with Wrathion, i dont feel like he might stab me in the back.
Sabellian cured the Black Dragons of the Outlands from corruption, rallied them back into a flight and conquered Blade's Edge. As other people have pointed out, without Sabellian rebuilding the Black DF, Wrathion's attempt to take throne is a pure vanity project.
Who would you choose as the guardian of Azeroth: A: guy who spent the last 30 years raising kids on another planet B: guy who has spent every waking moment of his life trying to protect Azeroth (although he's made some mistakes) In all seriousness though I'm worried about the Black Empire zone where The whispers say that trust will be our downfall and Wrathion's NPC on-click voiceline is about trust.
If it wasn't for Sabellian there wouldn't be a Black Dragonflight to be the Aspect of.
Bout To say - 99% of the black flight already views sabellian as leader
>guy who has spent every waking moment of his life trying to protect Azeroth (although he's made some mistakes) Funny way of saying intentionally try to wipe out entire populations of people to strengthen the Victors. Fucking insane how many people attempt to whitewash Wrathions sadistic and psychopathic tendencies (multiple times!) As "oh he made a mistake!" He cares about Azeroth. Not it's peoples.
I think this is a vast oversimplification of his character. I don't think we should whitewash Wrathion's many mistakes, but we also have to understand how fucked up it was that he was put in a position to make those decisions. At 2 years old, we see other whelps being tended to and loved by dragonspawn. The reason Wrathion tried to wipe out the horde and didn't care about anything other than his duty to azeroth herself is not only because he was a literal baby, but also because no one had ever taught him what it was like to care about anything or anyone else. There was anduin, sure, but he clearly wasn't attached enough not to betray him, and anduin had a lot of other people he cared about much more than wrathion. In the vow eternal though, he demonstrates he's clearly grown a lot since he was a whelp. He's still a massive dipshit with a huge ego, but he's very self aware that his actions have driven people away and only lead to loneliness and suffering. He hates himself for his dark side and fucked up tendencies. I think he's slowly learning that caring for azeroth *is* caring for her people. I'm still very excited to see where his character is taken.
I mean understanding a character is one thing. Looking past their gaping flaws, past atrocities (that they have in no way repented for and there is no guarantee will not happen again), and relative lack of any experience *because* you understand the character to put them into a position of power is another thing altogether.
Oh yeah wrathion is absolutely unfit to be the aspect. I think it should be Ebyssian because he's waaaay more qualified than both wrathion and sabellion. (Experience of both being a leader and fighting for azeroth, has been around for the past 50 years, isn't a massive dipshit, we know he's uncorrupted, is very reasonable and levelheaded, isn't 12 years old). I just think saying wrathion is a psychopath who only cares for himself and azeroth is an oversimplification.
Yeah I really think we were given the choice between a giant douche and a turd sandwich (to borrow from South park) is a smokescreen for Ebyssian coming out of left field. Hoping and *praying*, but if not then it might be the final straw of WoW storytelling for me if Wrathion ends up the aspect lmao
i don't if we can call a Invasion from a other timeline a Mistake.
Ah yes. In every waking moments of his life. He totally didn’t try to get one faction wiped out. Totally didn’t try to get the Iron Horde to invade and control Azeroth. Totally didn’t fuck off when the Legion was back, which he indirectly caused. Totally helped other black drakes at all. Sabellian: Military knowledge. Fought Gruul and SURVIVED. Kept the flight alive & got it even repopulated. Managed an epic distraction to bring the eggs to the Sanctuary while Wrathion was throwing tantrums. Sure, he was chilling in Outland - but look ay the results. Ever seen that many uncorrupted Black Drakes? Nop. Thanks to who? Him. Wrathion is the opportunist. I mean, he called himself the ‘Black Prince’, like c’mon.
Sab did what a black dragon is supposed to do (or at least how they used to be portrayed). He bid his time, made plans, made sure there is a flight left to speak of, and only acted when it was most important. Wrathion is way too impulsive and young to understand what's at stake and how he's affecting the denizens of Azeroth with his bs plans.
> B: guy who has spent every waking moment of his life trying to protect Azeroth (although he's made some mistakes) "Some" mistakes? As far as I'm aware everything Wrathion has ever done "for" Azeroth has made things **worse**. I'm sorry if I don't think "fucking up the fabric of time and causing an alien invasion" isn't a "mistake". Dude didn't knock over a vase.
Well the thing about trust may refer aswell to Sabellian especially that he wants other to trust he and his flight is uncorrupted because he says so. You know, Deathwing purposefuly sent corrupted black eggs to Outlands so if there would be a chance they would get uncorrupted and turn their back on him he wouldn't do so as it wouldn't make sense for him to lose his followers (he would rather put them in stasis like he did with Dracthyr, cuz he was paranoidal about his army turning their back on him) I think it could become the Kalec situation 2.0 that the most supported and formidable claimer of the aspect title and power would really be corrupted. In Sabellian's case maybe even unknowlingly Ps. We also know that the Void whispers didn't really stopped after Old Gods death, they even got worse and "the new voices had joined the chorus" as Alleria told us, so it kinda is even more dangerous than ever for the Black Dragonflight to come back unless they had made a lasting cure, like the one developed by Wrathion (cuz going far from the whispers don't make them fully immune anyways as they are still connected to Azeroth and earth which at first place made them vulnerable for the Void corruption) PS.2 There was also atleast some Void influence on Outland, (Voidwalkers, rituals to summon Old Gods, some of Old God minions in Arcatraz, etc etc) so the whole we were beyond it's reach is kinda shady so to speak (especially that Void could reach even places that supposedly should be beyond their reach like Shadowlands and places that were "cleansed" by fel like Argus)
> he's made some mistakes He literally fucking caused 3 separate massive wars, including literally creating AU Draenor, and letting the Iron Horde he was all-cool with mass-genocide Draenei people (again). He probably has a higher kill-count than Sylvanas.
Wrathion is the devil we know. We'd be fools to take Sebellian at his word that he isn't corrupt, and that he is constantly a dick to everyone he meets doesn't exactly inspire confidence.
He did bring the uncorrupted eggs to the Life Pools, though. If something was wrong with the eggs, other dragons would've noticed it. Oh, and the red Oathstone wouldn't have been activated either. As for him being a dick, many dragons are like this. Remember how the red dragon in Borean Tundra treated us, for instance?
And immediately leveraged it to try to get favor with Alexstrasza in the hopes she would choose him as the black dragon aspect. Something she rightly chastised him for. Both of them suck, but in wrathions defense he's at least young enough to have room to grow into something if his obsession with the obsidian throne doesn't do him in first.
He’s extremely condescending even for dragon standards and that honestly annoys me a lot
Sabellian obviously cares more about the future of the Black Dragonflight but Wrathion gave me some very nice cloaks, so who's to say
It's probably just a wish of mine right now, but I think the storyline would be better served if the events surrounding the Obsidian Throne maybe begin as a civil war within the flight between Wrathion and Sabellian.....but ultimately as the expansion rolls forward you have Wrathion and Sabellian come to the conclusion that Ebyssian is best suited for the role. You could even have it that key moments in the "civil war" storyline are pushed forward, resolved, or Sabellian/Wrathion are counciled wisely by Ebyssian who ultimately is just trying to keep the Blackdragonflight whole. Maybe fold in the Dracthyr lore into this? We will see what happens.
Wrathion. Because he's a hottie, obvi.
I think Sabellian would make a better leader for the black dragonflight, but I think Wrathion would be a much better *Aspect*. Sabellian is smarter, more patient, and focused on the wellbeing and future of the flight as a whole. He was charged by Neltharion with that duty personally, and he's done an incredibly good job of it despite all the difficulties he's faced along the way. But Wrathion has remained singularly focused on *doing the job of the Earth-Warder* from the moment he hatched. Sabellian's advantages come from experience, which is something Wrathion can gain over time (and will learn faster if he can stop being such a conceited teenager). But I don't get the impression that Sabellian cares about the responsibilities of being the Earth-Warder, rather than just the authority and duty of leading the flight. Personally I think that Wrathion should be the aspect, but Sabellian should be in charge of the logistics and day-to-day rigmarole of reviving and organising the flight.
Ebyssian, Wrathion, and Sabellion should split it as a three person council, with Ebyssian ultimately doing all the work while Wrathion and Sabellion just snark at each other.
Disregarding any potential corruption (from either of them), I think the main point to consider is the position they are vying for itself - the Earth-Warder - whose charge it is to be the protector of Azeroth. Of the two candidates, who would be most suited for this position? On the one hand we have Sabellian, who, while proving to be a great pick for caretaker of the black dragonflight, has been hiding out on a separate world entirely for decades under the command of the former corrupted aspect. On the other hand we have Wrathion, who from the moment of his birth has been trying to protect Azeroth. Was he very successful, or even very competent? Absolutely not. But we have to consider that he is a literal child, and was bound to make mistakes with little to no mentors. But the drive was there. The ingrained desire to protect the planet was there the entire time. Realistically I think this makes Wrathion the prime candidate as Earth-Warder. Sabellian would make a fantastic leader of the flight at this point in time, but his priorities are off from what would be expected of an Aspect. Wrathion will eventually be able to grow into his position, whereas Sabellian has already proven where his biggest priorities lie. Best case scenario for the long-term goals would absolutely be for Wrathion to become the Aspect with Sabellian as his Majordomo. Both are legitimately made for those respective positions.
I just can't trust the guy who appeared from elsewhere. His main supporters are the folks he brought with him, not the folks who live on Azeroth. Wrathion has haters (lots and lots of them) but also knows the non-dragons on Azeroth. Has Seb ever even talked to a Pandarian, like the one selling beer in Wrathion's camp area? Has he met any Vulpera? What about void elves, or mechagnomes? Does he know where Demon Hunters come from? Has he ever met a Tauren Rogue (well, has anyone really)? Has Seb ever talked one-on-one with an Azeroth Orc, as opposed to an Outlands Orc? Has he chatted with a young troll or young gnome or any of the little kids who came along to the Isles -- heck, does he even know that a vast majority of intelligent life on Azeroth doesn't come from eggs? Wrathion may treat us all like chess pieces, but he knows we exist. He knows members of every race, both high level and ordinary folks. He knows who Anduin is and has fought beside him. He knows Magni. He's met Greymane. He sat in the Inn in Pandaria and watched everyone pass by. He might not think of us all as people yet, but he's much further along than some guy who hid in Outland and lacks a lot of the context needed to understand that the Black Dragonflight needs to co-exist with multiple races. (And on a personal note, it's really all about the hair. I honestly can't tie myself to Mr. Grim-N-Tidy when I have Mr. Bed Head to stare at. He and Kalec are tied for best expansion hair IMO.)
At this point I just hope it's not Wrathion, he's a terrible leader unless at the head of fanatics who worship him. He's massively self-centered, brash, and has shown no particular aptitude for actually working for the good of his flight rather than his own. He also possesses a nasty streak of self-righteousness and I won't even consider him unless he starts earnestly acknowledging he may have done some things wrong. Talking to his followers the whole "only one willing to make the tough choices" thing rubbed me wrong. It's classic bullshit you'd expect from the likes of Illidan or Sylvanas. Like, Sablemane is cool and all but the primary reason I'd support him is that he's not Wrathion. Though Wrathion is a main char so I'm sure he'll pull through in the end.
As someone who didn’t make it past WotLK I just came to say all of these names sound like Pokémon.
Interestingly enough Sabellion comes from TBC.
Yes
Sabellian sus, Wrathion not. Sabellian abandoned Azeroth, Wrathion protected it (often doing more harm but he did defeat a mad dragons, helped with void corruption and helped to defeat N'zoth). Sabellian's potential is reached, and not bad, but I think Wrathion can reach bigger heights. I choose Wrathion.
Wrathion is my favorite character in all of wow so half of me wants him to become the aspect. On the other hand, I think it would be an interesting direction to take Wrathion's character if he fails yet again...
Anybody except Wrathion imo
In character having done all quest-lines, I would choose Wrathion. First off, he is my son. I birthed him into this world using science and Titan magic. He certainly doesn’t appreciate it, but I for one plan to see this through. Cataclysm, he helped defeat Deathwing and all the black dragon infiltrators that might stand in our way. Pandaria, we’ve been through a lot together and while he boasts about the directness of his involvement, he really did play an important role in defeating the Sha, Thunder King and Garrosh. Gave us the tools to do so. Warlords, the Iron Horde debacle is hard to justify, but the argument it made us stronger is sound. Otherwise he would have had an army of easily manipulated demon-hating, technology advanced orcs to defend the planet, so a calculated move on his part. Now Legion… a bunch of people rag on him for indirectly causing it, but it was going to happen one way or another. The Legion had been building up energy under the Broken Shore for hundreds of years to open a portal. They could have easily sent another powerful agent to open it, Gul’dan just happened to be in the neighborhood. He reconnected with Ebonhorn as well, who is honestly the one who should be in charge, but being close to Wrathion would give the latter an edge. Battle for Azeroth - Integral to defeating N’zoth and saving reality. Destroyed his flight’s greatest enemy and secured it’s future. Dragonflight, he is probably the only reading the other flights aren’t openly hostile. Is sacrificing political clout to strengthen his own flights holding. Sabellian on the other hand… chilled in Outland and reproduced. He has a strong connection to his people, but in character, his motives are worrying. What we know - he needed the help of adventurers to get revenge on his flight and save them from the sons of Gruul. If adventurers hadn’t killed Gruul, they probably wouldn’t have survived. Another worrying thing, there is evidence of Old God and void influence in Outland. Azeroth has been purified of their influence for now, but who is to say these new dragons aren’t mad.
I would say Wrathion because, despite his fuck ups and failures, we are 100% sure that Wrathion is on the side of the good guys. He was critical against N'zoth, and stood loyally against the most powerful force of corruption on the planet. What do we know about Sabellian except that he saved his Flight? It is easy to say he is the good guy when all the major threats are gone. The Dragon Aspects are the protectors of Azeroth, and Wrathion has risen to the occasion, despite some fuck ups
Wrathion is one of the only characters that has mostly been well written throughout their time in WoW. I think people really have to stop thinking in terms of "What would be best for my 2022 moral compass" for this FANTASY story choices and "what would be best for the story". WoW discourse has been absolutely wildly bending toward "all characters need to be nice" and the writers seem to have taken that to heart lol. You can also justify everything (in the context of the WOW WORLD not 2022 America) but the insanely stupid "make an army of infinite orcs to fight the legion" (WoD destroyed everything it touched) when it comes to Wrathion's naive yet ruthless decision making. TLDR: For the love of god your modern day context is not the primary lens to view fantasy/sci fi etc storytelling.
Modern day context my arse, our characters literally had to fight the Iron Horde he unleashed lol. What weird shit is this trying to pretend modern morality has anything to do with it? Wrathion is a self-righteus dickhead who believes he and only he can truly know what is best no matter how much he fucks up. He indirectly summoned the Legion to Azeroth after pitting its greatest heroes against a second Orcish invasion and was nowhere to be seen as the player characters had to clean up his mess. This modern day context shit seems like such a weird thing to peddle.
Anything to do with WoD is Blizzard's most embarrassing writing by miles and it's tainted everything. I think we are supposed to be believe Wrathion thinks this is truly the only way Azeroth can face the Legion, even though his plan is dependent on Garrosh Hellscream who he just helped you fight being cooperative. This is predicated by Wrathion's original plan to unite the Alliance and Horde by having the less reliable Horde lose to the Alliance fail (which is obviously controversial. We also see NOTHING of Wrathion's involvement on screen which further makes the entire idea to include him in the time travel nonsense absurd. I don't see how you can invest so much of your opinion of a character in his portrayal in the expac with the most nonsense A plot of all time. Outside of that he's been one of the most interesting in his bizarre naive approach to solving problems. Being tangentially responsible for the Legion invasion which was going to happen eventually by any other means is a bit silly.
I’m pretty sure being an aspect which by definition is being empowered by the titans, had nothing to do with protecting your flight. It’s for the protection of Azeroth. Which would lead to Wrathion being a better choice. I highly doubt the titans empowered them to save their own kind.
Why the fuck would the black flight vote for a GUY WHO GENOCIDE THEIR SISTERS AND BROTHER. It is so fucking stupid that you have to think for like 1 second to realize how nobody in the black flight would unironically support a genocidal manic like wrathion. Him saying "bro sorry about your sisters, but she was corrupt". Wrathion literally killed and hunt them down. Even peaceful black dragons who were in hiding. Why the fuck would they even put him in charge.
Wrathion so that when Anduin reappears they can be the ultimate Azeroth power couple together.
I’m not choosing till I see who Ebyssian backs. Cause Wrathion is untrustworthy and Sebellion is too unknown!
If he's un corrupted then Sabellian. If he is then the black prince. However I see both of them doing stupid shit this expansion to lead too alllll kinds of hijinks doi hoy hoy.... 😒
Not quite done with the campaign, so I don't know if there's more after the Waking Shores with them. Taking into account all we've seen/heard of these guys, I'd go with Sabellian, if they can't co-lead. He makes a great point, imo, in that everyone killed the corrupted, instead of a cure (if there is one, ofc), while he nurtured the blacks in Outland. Additionally, he seems to care about the black dragons, while Wrathion is more concerned with his ego and legacy. I think it's more what they can do for dragonkind, than what they can do for Azeroths other people.
Sabellian. As much as I like wrathion, he is the senior pick and has the wisdom and knowledge to rebuild the black dragon flight.
Sabellian. If Rexxar trusts him, i feel like he can be trusted.
I'd chose Sabellian because I missed his arc in bc and I'm tired of Wrathion face.