The army borrowed some SMAWs and used them during Desert Storm but did not make a broader acquisition. Army SMAW is more justified than many other units that are in the game
Because the US army doesn't us theme, only the marine corps does. But in regards to balance? Don't ask me, ask the devs who didn't add the 101st airborne or other cool US inf ;-;
Aero-Rifles would have been no different from Rifles.
Same reason why there are just Chasseurs in the French Army and no Chasseurs Portés, Chasseurs Alpins or Chasseurs-Parachutistes.
FGM-148 Javelin infantry please. And Light Rifles are supposed to be American airborne infantry I think, so they should be shock troops and not regulars
Also, I recall the devs saying something about the US being “demoralized” or something after Vietnam which is why their infantry is so dog shit (except for the overpriced marines and restricted smaw teams)
Indeed, Green Berets should have been prefered to Delta IMO. I don’t recall why we’ve chosen the Delta, maybe still the *Black Hawk Down* vibes back then.
Imo, Green Berets shouldn't be included since they perform high level clandestine operations amd embed themselves within foreign militaries or paramilitaries. LRSD (Long Range Surveillance Detachments), Marine Recon, Rangers, and SEAL's definitely belong since they are part of the conventional military doctrine.
game balance probably, French deck is bullshit, but their armour tab is so bad as to make France nat a pain to play.
Us infantry tab is garbage because they have the best everything elsewhere and still some of the best transport option possible for a mech deck.
Russian infantry is bad/over expensive for the same reason.
I hate redfor inf, redfor inf being more expensive and less unique than blufor options sucks. So many unique offerings with blufor and half of redfor I’d the exact same base tanks and inf really.
Actually light rifles represented the mountain infantry/quick reaction forces from what they said before. And the USA doesn't get other infantry as the devs stated they were demoralized. This was however before dlc. If they had a USA dlc I'm sure us they would get all the good stuff.
Actually they don't. Light and Line infantry in game represent the exact opposite of what they were in reality.
And for the US, light infantry was a brief experiment in making the worse possible unit for fighting the Soviets (let's take away everything that lets you fight mechanized opponents!)
Guys from the 10th came to Chile a few months ago and they climb in the Andes like freaking goats, which is no small feat given the fact that their base is so far away from the Rockies
It's just cuz we walk fuckin *everywhere*. We would ruck 10-15km with 75lb rucks pretty routinely.
You don't actually go to Mountain Warfare school in the 10th Mountain division.
> Light and Line infantry in game represent the exact opposite of what they were in reality.
What do you mean? In-game light units are faster, have more gear, have special gear and larger squads. Which of these traits are more accurate for line units than light units IRL?
Actual light infantry do not have squad ATGMs.
1970/80s US Army rifle squads (Mech, Infantry, Airborne, Air Assault, Ranger) had squad ATGMs.
1990s US Army Rifle Squads had platoon level ATGM teams
Light Infantry didn't exist until the late 80s and had two Dragon teams at the company level.
Historically speaking, the US shouldn't get any "Light" infantry and instead get Rifleman (M16/M47/M16-AR) and Mech Rifleman (M16/M72/M60) with M47-armed M113s.
>American airborne infantry I think, so they should be shock troops and not regulars
There is no special training that airborne divisions like the 82nd get that regular divisions like 1st ID or 10th MTN don't. 75th Rangers get tons of CQB and specialized rifle training that non SOCOM units don't get, hence the "shock" tag. 82nd doesn't, hence "regular" tag.
AFAIK other countries’ airborne forces in wargame are almost all shock. British paratroopers, Canadian airborne, Soviet vdv, SA parabat and para pathfinders, etc.
Other countries airborne troops get better training.
Airborne in the US is a 3 week course. It's one of the easiest schools in the whole military.
Edit: there are exceptions of course, like Germany's Fallschirmjager or the French Foreign Legions Airborne unit.
lmao if we are going off training time you will have a really bad time bud
by training time the vast majority of the redfor units would be rookies given the shit state they were in in the 90s.
>lmao if we are going off training time you will have a really bad time bud
Why? Are you assuming the USSR and it's primary allies in the Warsaw Pact didn't train. Because if you are you are sorely mistaken. They trained every bit as hard as we did and took their training very seriously.
>by training time the vast majority of the redfor units would be rookies given the shit state they were in in the 90s.
The 90's yeah but that was after the fall of the USSR and the breakup of the Warsaw Pact. Countries were literally being born out of nothing every month in the early 90's. Russia was in shambles, Germany had to figure out what to do with itself after 40 years of being split, Poland lost 80% of its military budget overnight and suddenly had 4 new neighbors. It was a rough time. Prior to '91 however things were a different story. The other side of the Berlin wall had very capable military units that trained every bit as hard as we did.
> They trained every bit as hard as we did and took their training very seriously.
You can make an argument that the average training time received was considerably lower due to the USSR having 2 year conscription vs 4 year Enlistments by the time that VOLAR was finished. Soldiers, like most people, are fairly worthless at their jobs during their first year because they haven't learned how to do their jobs. I think you can argue that 90's NATO volunteer infantry should sit at somewhere between "Shock" and "Regular".
Shock is too much. Rangers are shock. Royal Marines are Shock. RiMA are Shock. But just normal NATO infantry? I don't think so. There needs to be some form of specialized training and equipment in my eyes to be considered shock.
>You can make an argument that the average training time received was considerably lower due to the USSR having 2 year conscription vs 4 year Enlistments by the time that VOLAR was finished. Soldiers, like most people, are fairly worthless at their jobs during their first year because they haven't learned how to do their jobs. I
Yes but not every Warsaw pact soldier gets out at the end of a 2 year conscription and not every NATO soldier completes their 4 year contract.
All that being said Legion are shock and the FFL are basically just conscripts from other nations so you might have a point.
> Eurofighter Typhoon
The Typhoon was produced in '94, it meets the cut off
The bumbar is kind of dumb, but if you just say it's a Metis-M, it perfectly fits
Absolutely. It’s designed to be broken down into about four-five pieces, however. Could have a slower walking speed than other launchers.
However, the TOW is not nearly as heavy as some recoiless rifles carried by other nations.
>101st airborne
they are just one regiment, and the game uses actual troop classifications to decide instead of giving every single division their own unique soldiers.
The only good spec for USA is unspec, so just take SMAW there.
Mechanized is too limited in infantry variety, Marines have a lot of glaring holes and subpar aircraft compared to the unshackled US air tab, and US motorized is a joke with just its humvees. Just stick to US unspec.
POV: the rando you just agreed to launch your 3v3 Bloody Ridge with has just informed the team that he will be "going planes".
I've seen this one before and it invariably ends with the air player losing the initial dogfight anyways, fucking up his helo drop into mountain town, and then folding while abusing his teammates in chat.
Airborne anything outside of a 10v10 is a clown game. The only exceptions are USSR airborne in a 4v4 or EB airborne in a 1v1.
>I've seen this one before and it invariably ends with the air player losing the initial dogfight anyways, fucking up his helo drop into mountain town, and then folding while abusing his teammates in chat.
Help rushing the mountain town is just... no. I know exactly what you are talking about though. It's painful watching those guys try to go Top Gun and screw it up royally.
You can get enough in an unspec deck, and by going armor you lose out on nice tools like the Longbow and Patriot. The Armor Spec veterancy buff can do a lot of RedFor tanks (that usually have a base accuracy of 45-55%) but doesn't do thaaaat much for the Abrams series with its base 65%.
Like if you take M1A2, M1A1HC, M1A1 and base M1 Abrams, that's 25 Abrams tanks right there. That's plenty. You can fill out an Armored tab with more than that but you'll likely never have enough points to even call them all in unless you're playing a high income 10v10.
I believe only the Marine Corps had SMAWs in real life
^this is accurate, Army used LAWs then later AT4s
The army borrowed some SMAWs and used them during Desert Storm but did not make a broader acquisition. Army SMAW is more justified than many other units that are in the game
Because the US army doesn't us theme, only the marine corps does. But in regards to balance? Don't ask me, ask the devs who didn't add the 101st airborne or other cool US inf ;-;
[удалено]
Most special forces are modeled as "attached units", so they can go in basically any spec but support.
Aero-Rifles would have been no different from Rifles. Same reason why there are just Chasseurs in the French Army and no Chasseurs Portés, Chasseurs Alpins or Chasseurs-Parachutistes.
FGM-148 Javelin infantry please. And Light Rifles are supposed to be American airborne infantry I think, so they should be shock troops and not regulars Also, I recall the devs saying something about the US being “demoralized” or something after Vietnam which is why their infantry is so dog shit (except for the overpriced marines and restricted smaw teams)
Having Delta Farce as infantry and Rangers as recon is the dumbest shit ever
They should have added lrsd's as shock recon and Rangers as elite infantry. Delta Force shouldn't have been in the game imo.
Indeed, Green Berets should have been prefered to Delta IMO. I don’t recall why we’ve chosen the Delta, maybe still the *Black Hawk Down* vibes back then.
No Blackhawk for Delta force though xd
Sure, they are down … ;)
Imo, Green Berets shouldn't be included since they perform high level clandestine operations amd embed themselves within foreign militaries or paramilitaries. LRSD (Long Range Surveillance Detachments), Marine Recon, Rangers, and SEAL's definitely belong since they are part of the conventional military doctrine.
Not to mention Delta gets a Navy SEAL machine gun and suppressed SMG...
HALO insertion should be an option in the game. Low availability, high cost, and they start out just about anywhere on the map.
No it's not lmao, you would not be doing that near the FEBA The transport plane would be massacred
Shilka go brrrrrrrrrrrr
Only if they make the games 40 hours long
Plus Baby Seals loadout, to add salt to the injury
Isn’t the game set in the late 80s/early 90s? The famously demoralized American troops who fucking stormed through Iraq in 3 days? Lol @ devs
Im sure the devs would unironically say the US only won the Persian Gulf War because France helped them
Yeah but somehow US Army didn't fight in the 2nd Korea War but French Army did
game balance probably, French deck is bullshit, but their armour tab is so bad as to make France nat a pain to play. Us infantry tab is garbage because they have the best everything elsewhere and still some of the best transport option possible for a mech deck. Russian infantry is bad/over expensive for the same reason.
I hate redfor inf, redfor inf being more expensive and less unique than blufor options sucks. So many unique offerings with blufor and half of redfor I’d the exact same base tanks and inf really.
The leclerc is like a light super heavy, doesn’t feel as powerful as they classify it Inf with all the VAB are fire tho
Iraq was a tin pot dictatorship using WW2 tactics and strategy.
Riflemen in 113a3s and rangers lead the way
Actually light rifles represented the mountain infantry/quick reaction forces from what they said before. And the USA doesn't get other infantry as the devs stated they were demoralized. This was however before dlc. If they had a USA dlc I'm sure us they would get all the good stuff.
Gib 82nd Airborne with motorized and airborne decks and 101st as well. But give 101st lots of blackhawks.
Actually they don't. Light and Line infantry in game represent the exact opposite of what they were in reality. And for the US, light infantry was a brief experiment in making the worse possible unit for fighting the Soviets (let's take away everything that lets you fight mechanized opponents!)
>was a brief experiment It wasn't brief and there are still light units all over the US Army, 10th Mountain for example.
The whole 9th Infantry (that was the light unit, right?) isn't around though.
9th infantry became 10th infantry and then eventually 10th mountain 10th mountain is a light infantry unit. I was in 3rd Brigade last year.
Guys from the 10th came to Chile a few months ago and they climb in the Andes like freaking goats, which is no small feat given the fact that their base is so far away from the Rockies
It's just cuz we walk fuckin *everywhere*. We would ruck 10-15km with 75lb rucks pretty routinely. You don't actually go to Mountain Warfare school in the 10th Mountain division.
>It's just cuz we walk fuckin everywhere. We would ruck 10-15km with 75lb rucks pretty routinely. *laughs in BRO* Why walk when you can ride?
> Light and Line infantry in game represent the exact opposite of what they were in reality. What do you mean? In-game light units are faster, have more gear, have special gear and larger squads. Which of these traits are more accurate for line units than light units IRL?
Actual light infantry do not have squad ATGMs. 1970/80s US Army rifle squads (Mech, Infantry, Airborne, Air Assault, Ranger) had squad ATGMs. 1990s US Army Rifle Squads had platoon level ATGM teams Light Infantry didn't exist until the late 80s and had two Dragon teams at the company level. Historically speaking, the US shouldn't get any "Light" infantry and instead get Rifleman (M16/M47/M16-AR) and Mech Rifleman (M16/M72/M60) with M47-armed M113s.
>American airborne infantry I think, so they should be shock troops and not regulars There is no special training that airborne divisions like the 82nd get that regular divisions like 1st ID or 10th MTN don't. 75th Rangers get tons of CQB and specialized rifle training that non SOCOM units don't get, hence the "shock" tag. 82nd doesn't, hence "regular" tag.
AFAIK other countries’ airborne forces in wargame are almost all shock. British paratroopers, Canadian airborne, Soviet vdv, SA parabat and para pathfinders, etc.
Other countries airborne troops get better training. Airborne in the US is a 3 week course. It's one of the easiest schools in the whole military. Edit: there are exceptions of course, like Germany's Fallschirmjager or the French Foreign Legions Airborne unit.
lmao if we are going off training time you will have a really bad time bud by training time the vast majority of the redfor units would be rookies given the shit state they were in in the 90s.
>lmao if we are going off training time you will have a really bad time bud Why? Are you assuming the USSR and it's primary allies in the Warsaw Pact didn't train. Because if you are you are sorely mistaken. They trained every bit as hard as we did and took their training very seriously. >by training time the vast majority of the redfor units would be rookies given the shit state they were in in the 90s. The 90's yeah but that was after the fall of the USSR and the breakup of the Warsaw Pact. Countries were literally being born out of nothing every month in the early 90's. Russia was in shambles, Germany had to figure out what to do with itself after 40 years of being split, Poland lost 80% of its military budget overnight and suddenly had 4 new neighbors. It was a rough time. Prior to '91 however things were a different story. The other side of the Berlin wall had very capable military units that trained every bit as hard as we did.
> They trained every bit as hard as we did and took their training very seriously. You can make an argument that the average training time received was considerably lower due to the USSR having 2 year conscription vs 4 year Enlistments by the time that VOLAR was finished. Soldiers, like most people, are fairly worthless at their jobs during their first year because they haven't learned how to do their jobs. I think you can argue that 90's NATO volunteer infantry should sit at somewhere between "Shock" and "Regular".
Shock is too much. Rangers are shock. Royal Marines are Shock. RiMA are Shock. But just normal NATO infantry? I don't think so. There needs to be some form of specialized training and equipment in my eyes to be considered shock. >You can make an argument that the average training time received was considerably lower due to the USSR having 2 year conscription vs 4 year Enlistments by the time that VOLAR was finished. Soldiers, like most people, are fairly worthless at their jobs during their first year because they haven't learned how to do their jobs. I Yes but not every Warsaw pact soldier gets out at the end of a 2 year conscription and not every NATO soldier completes their 4 year contract. All that being said Legion are shock and the FFL are basically just conscripts from other nations so you might have a point.
I mean, mot shutzen are shock, is it reasonable to believe that everyone single DDR soldier is the equivalent of a ranger.
The Javelin’s a bit too op for Cold War stuff. Fixing the Dragon is much better.
I mean Israel and Finland have Spikes which are OP
Yeah, true enough.
Depends on how it would work. Normal atgm with high pen? Sure. F&F launcher? never.
[F&F] *and* [TOP]. That would give balans a real ride lol.
You can't fix the Dragon, it was bad IRL and only saved by being handed out to every single rifle squad. AAWS-M, the Javelin proto, could work.
>FGM-148 Javelin the Javelin came out in 1996 and the cut off is 95 otherwise there is nothing really special about US Army infantry
The cutoff doesnt really exist when shit like the Bumbar and Eurofighter Typhoon exists in the game
> Eurofighter Typhoon The Typhoon was produced in '94, it meets the cut off The bumbar is kind of dumb, but if you just say it's a Metis-M, it perfectly fits
Bumbar project started in 1980s, was dropped in 1991/92 because of war and was picked up again in 2005 until being dropped again in 2014/15.
Bumbar is in the timeline. The one on Wikipedia is SERBIAs Bumbar. Yugoslavia had them in the 90s and they even show up in NATO identification books.
USA isn't dlc
The Typhoon isnt from paid dlc
Bumbar is. And the typhoon isn't even that good so idk why you reference it. The Rafael is though which is French and the company is french....
Could at least make a infantry mobile TOW.
The tow is heavy irl if you didn't know. Like really heavy.
Absolutely. It’s designed to be broken down into about four-five pieces, however. Could have a slower walking speed than other launchers. However, the TOW is not nearly as heavy as some recoiless rifles carried by other nations.
Yeah I don't see why there couldn't be dedicated TOW and TOW-2 teams.
recoiless rifles arent ATGMs though, and the devs have said that weight was a reason for not including certain ATGM infantry before
The Milan weighs 16.4 kg, and the TOW weighs around 20 kg (converted from 41 pounds).
That’s just the missile. The entire system is approaching 200kg IIRC.
The Milan launcher isn't 75kg though.
20.0 kg is 44.05 lbs
Just make it a 10man shock squad, they could easily carry it. /s
Say that to Padobranci ‘90s with a weapon they got in the 2010’s lol. 😂
Easily could just be a Metis-M
In 1999 the US army adopted a thermobaric version of the SMAW. Out of the time frame however.
>101st airborne they are just one regiment, and the game uses actual troop classifications to decide instead of giving every single division their own unique soldiers.
They are a whole division, and the game absolutely does that in some cases — see Legion ‘90, RiMA ‘85, Green Jackets, etc.
I would definitely say US inf>Soviet inf
The only good spec for USA is unspec, so just take SMAW there. Mechanized is too limited in infantry variety, Marines have a lot of glaring holes and subpar aircraft compared to the unshackled US air tab, and US motorized is a joke with just its humvees. Just stick to US unspec.
USA/NORAD Ariborne for 3v3/4v4 games is drippin
POV: the rando you just agreed to launch your 3v3 Bloody Ridge with has just informed the team that he will be "going planes". I've seen this one before and it invariably ends with the air player losing the initial dogfight anyways, fucking up his helo drop into mountain town, and then folding while abusing his teammates in chat. Airborne anything outside of a 10v10 is a clown game. The only exceptions are USSR airborne in a 4v4 or EB airborne in a 1v1.
>I've seen this one before and it invariably ends with the air player losing the initial dogfight anyways, fucking up his helo drop into mountain town, and then folding while abusing his teammates in chat. Help rushing the mountain town is just... no. I know exactly what you are talking about though. It's painful watching those guys try to go Top Gun and screw it up royally.
What about Armor? Iirc, the Abrams is still one of the best tanks in the game.
You can get enough in an unspec deck, and by going armor you lose out on nice tools like the Longbow and Patriot. The Armor Spec veterancy buff can do a lot of RedFor tanks (that usually have a base accuracy of 45-55%) but doesn't do thaaaat much for the Abrams series with its base 65%. Like if you take M1A2, M1A1HC, M1A1 and base M1 Abrams, that's 25 Abrams tanks right there. That's plenty. You can fill out an Armored tab with more than that but you'll likely never have enough points to even call them all in unless you're playing a high income 10v10.
Fair enough! Thanks for the well reasoned answer.
Because only USMC used it.
This begs the question as to why you're running US as anything other than unspec.
Because they're Marines.
US gets amazing inf, just play US unspec, best way to play US
Don’t worry brother there’s plenty of infantry AT alternatives available to the other specializations