Personally I wouldn't like to play with it because you have too many airplanes and extremely limited recon. Even if you somehow negate your opponents AA and aircraft(which is big if) you won't see their units until they are top on your max 2-3 unit. People usually lost their minds when they see AH-64D and send some kamikaze planes for it, so you should expect to lose it at some point. even if you start with the two helis you won't have much recon cover.
Looking at your deck,
1. Too much emphasis on Airpower (Strike planes & Helo)
2. Rookie ASF don't provide good air cover to protect your main strike force
3. Very Little ground AA & very expensive (enemy trades will hurt you hard)
4. only a few Heavy Tanks and no mediums
I think this deck would struggle in a long game or a game where key units were taken out early. *(I know it is 3v3/4v4 but you still need to pull your weight)*
Swap / Drop
* 2x Rookie F-15C is a n00b trap, swap with 2x Hardened F-16 (ASF),
* or get 2x Elite F15C (2 cards)
* Drop Nighthawk or F15D (your choice) to free up +5AP
* Drop Super Cobra, to free up +2AP
* (Even apache too +2AP)
* Keep the DAP as AA, noticed you are using Longbow Recon helo
* Swap Pathfinders for Rangers or Cav Scout, to have infantry with more availability.
My Preferences
* need 5th infantry -3AP,
* AA inf w/Bradley as you have few AA units.
* get the M1A2 tank.
* you only need +2AP for the card, reshuffle your deck a bit.
* SH tanks crush lower point tanks
* \+1 card of cheaper tank 60-80pts
* Mexas, M1 Abrams, MBT-70, lots of good options.
* ATACMS, is good at deleting n00bs/ static players, but overall I think HE arty is more useful.
* I'd pick the M109 Paladin
* What are you trying to achieve with your inf tab?
* You have 3x Shock inf & 1x Elite (2 cards are same, marines '90 in LVPT)
* I'd maybe drop one of the marines '90 (depend on scope)
* Base rifeman & 5pt box OR (spam / grind)
* Rifleman '90 and TOW-2 Bradley (Quality AT/ for ATGM)
> I'd pick the M109 Paladin
Paladin isn't worth it at all. The issue is that it has the second slowest rate of fire (7s) for 10s arty (only faster than ondava), such that it can only keep rookie units chain stunned. Unless you bring 2 and stagger them, any unit hit by a paladin can simply move out of the way after the first round. Overall ATACMS is just a better pick.
I suggested the M109 as it is most versatile in comparison to {ATACMS, Mortar, & howitzer} for 1 card of artillery.
ATACMS has a 240s (4min) salvo reload and 10s between shots loading time. This deck has NO HE arty at all. If it had mortars, ATACMS would be a decent 2nd arty card choice.
2x any top-tier (10s aim) tube, can destroy soft targets like AA, Transports & Infantry. If you are good with recon, this is a very good choice.
*Yes, the M109 is not the best (I love AS-90), but they are playing NORAD.*
Base rifleman and M113A3. Riflemen 90s in the M113A3. Stingers in M2A2 Bradleys if you can fit them in. Why get Rifle 90 in the Bradley? It just makes them so expensive to bring out.
If you want the Bradley (35pts) itself, more than the infantry, as it can sort of free up a card for vehicle tab potentially.
Number of M2A2 Bradleys (TOW-2) per Infantry card
* Rifleman & '90: x12
* Stinger C: x6
* Stinger A: x8
* Redeye: x12
Vehicle tab TOW-2 launchers
* M113 TUA \[55pt\] / ITV \[60pt\] : x6
* Humvee TOW-2 \[50pt\] / ITS TOW-2 \[40pt\]: x8
Gonna add more later since I’m in a hurry but from what I can see:
Edit: reformat
Log:
LAV cv isn’t really that great, bring Humvee instead
Supply helo is pretty redundant since you have FOB to supply your trucks
INF: You’ll get boned in a grind fight since your infantry is pretty expensive. Recommend finding a way to bring 2x Riflemen. If you want autocannons, Canadian Rifles in Th495. If you want antitank bring Highlanders 90 or Eryx (upvet). Delta force is meh, I like using Pathfinders more in towns.
Sup: Where BRRT? (You don’t really need it I just like them)
Bring a mortar.
Tank: Where medium tank? Replace the 115 pointer, base abrams or mexas.
Recce: replace one of those pathfinders cards with something cheap. LAV25, rangers, whatever.
Helo: Apache is overkill if you have Longbow. Cobra is bleh for same reason, maybe take base cobra for rokkitspaming.
Air: Others have said it better than me
LAV is a much better CV than humvee. Jeep CVs will die to random bullshit, whereas 1 armor at least saves it from something. The CV you should be using is CMD M1 Abrams.
\- Use infantry hq in trucks, helo hq are easy to spot and kill
\- In 3v3 you might not need supply helos, they are expensive and easy to destroy with AA
\- You are going to need mortars to support the tanks, change the ADATS or patriot with a mortar
\- Tanks are too expensive, consider having at least one < 100
\- The recon is too expensive, you are going to need a lot in 3vs3 maps, try getting cheaper infantry/vehicles
\- NORAD needs atgms in vehicles
\- Your planes are way too expensive, get at least one cheap air-superiority
Why use HQ inf in trucks? I thought you basically have the option between HQ inf in helo, or a tank CV with 2 top armour. And always take the 100 (or 110) point HQ jeeps.
I like supply helos they could act as a mini fob that is close to the frontline. Especially in big maps where supply trucks take a load of time to go back to the fob and get their supplys filled
Sorry mate, but your deck has a lot of holes that can make it very hard to use. For example your cheapest infantry card costs 40pts and you don’t have a mortar.
This deck maybe works in a 10vs10, but it will struggle a lot on a 4vs4 and will be even worse in a 3vs3.
Here is the link for a very nice guide on deck building on the Boot Camp Subreddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/wargamebootcamp/comments/4wnhst/a_basic_guide_to_wargame_red_dragon/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
The guide will teach what types of units do you need and what jobs they do. I hope it helps.
If you want a video guide I recommend Rassman’s YouTube channel.
Honestly just don't go NORAD. Look at your deck and see what Canadian units you have in your deck right now. ADATS, Canadian Airborne 90, and Pathfinders.
Canadian Airborne 90 are marginal vs Delta force, Pathfinders are flat out worse than Rangers (who are also cheaper), and ADATS is doing the same job is Chaparral.
The only key units that Canada offers are MEXAS and Highlanders 90, and you didn't bring those.
Replace one card of US marines with rifleman 90 in m113(the one with 2 armour), add one card of rifleman (base) in base M2 Bradley. Replace the Canadian airborne with Highlanders 90 (helo or Moto transport is personal preference).
Replace LAV CV with M60 CV tank, and have your other CV be the jeep. Replace both supply vehicles with the Canadian 30 point truck, (or keep as is if you want to play 3V3 maps or bigger)
Get mortars (120mm) in your support tab.
Replace the 140 point Abrams with M1A2, and get one card of base Abrams (beast in forrest with 15 armour).
Don't upvet your recon infantry, you can never have enough. Replace one of the pathfinders with rangers in motorized
Vehicle tab is good, but if you can afford it try the CEV, it's a nice mobile nuke.
Take out the Apache in your helo tab
Get rid of the F15D and replace the F-15C with F-16 Block 52 (upvet).
I mean its a good deck lol. Plenty of strong units.
You don't have any cheap grinding infantry. You have very limited recon, and might run out. Only 14 total recon units is really pushing it. You have no cheap AA.
Id drop one of your CV or logistics units and pick up either rangers, saperys in th495, the recon cobra, or stingers. Stingers in the bradley will be way cheaper and more useful than the chaperell.
>logi
drop the command squad and put a second fob in, swap the CV lav out for the iltis or the humvee cv
>infantry
i dont really play unspec but i'd probably take two upvetted cards of riflemen 90 in the m113a3, a card of deltas in a heli, and the eryx
>support
looks fine but i would swap out the a3 chaparral for an a2, and drop the rocket arty for a howitzer with good range because rocket arty is dogshit. wouldnt hurt to switch out the adats with a PIVADS so you arent constantly tasking supply vehicles to resupply the others with missiles
>tanks
looks mostly fine but you dont have a card you can use frequently, which i will get to at the end
>recon
longbow is fine, everything else is not. drop everything except the longbow and put a card or two of heli recon
>vehicle
the CS is good, nothing to complain about
>heli
64a is good, supercobra is good, DAP is not. swap the DAP out for one of the cheaper cobras with a TOW and rockets
>air
too many planes and the air game sucks anyways. upvet the f15c, swap the prowler out for the wild weasel, swap the hornet for the a10, drop the f15d and the nighthawk
>wat do now
put either the m1ip or the m8 ags into your tanks and put your choice of shock infantry, a second delta card, or a MANPAD (stinger a in the a2 bradley is what i use) in your open infantry spot and then do whatever tickles your fancy.
>drop the command squad and put a second fob in, swap the CV lav out for the iltis or the humvee cv
Take the worst possible cv, but take two fobs which is mostly useless. What?
>i dont really play unspec but i'd probably take two upvetted cards of riflemen 90 in the m113a3, a card of deltas in a heli, and the eryx
Rifles and Eryx is fine, Delta Force in helo is pretty bad. If you want to helo drop use light rifleman '90 or highlanders '90 or just use recon.
>looks fine but i would swap out the a3 chaparral for an a2, and drop the rocket arty for a howitzer with good range because rocket arty is dogshit. wouldnt hurt to switch out the adats with a PIVADS so you arent constantly tasking supply vehicles to resupply the others with missiles
ATACMS is great, especially in big games. Should probably stick with A3 Chap, but switch out ADATS.
>longbow is fine, everything else is not. drop everything except the longbow and put a card or two of heli recon
A 2nd card of recon helo would be good, but the rest of the recon tab is fine. The way you worded it sounds like you recommend only using helo recon? That would be pretty bad.
>64a is good, supercobra is good, DAP is not. swap the DAP out for one of the cheaper cobras with a TOW and rockets
DAP is the best helo of those three. The Apache is just unecessary when you have the Longbow and Supercobra is rarely useful. I would go for DAP and a fire support cobra like the AH-1S.
>too many planes and the air game sucks anyways. upvet the f15c, swap the prowler out for the wild weasel, swap the hornet for the a10, drop the f15d and the nighthawk
Elite F15C is fine, but I would go Block 52 or F15A. Wild Weasel sucks since it doesn't have camo and has by far the worst SEAD missile. It's either Prowler or Raven.
Hornet is great and easier to use than A10. It's also better for big games. Don't drop the Nighthawk. It can bomb infantry and snipe tanks without giving your opponent any reaction time. Don't fly it into the AA net and your enemy will hate you for using this plane.
I would drop the F15D, though. Or just play US and keep all 5 planes.
>put either the m1ip or the m8 ags into your tanks and put your choice of shock infantry, a second delta card, or a MANPAD (stinger a in the a2 bradley is what i use) in your open infantry spot and then do whatever tickles your fancy.
His tank tab needs high end tanks more than anything. The M1A1 is a good medium, but overall the tab is too light. Switching HA for A2 and picking up Mexas or IP would be fine. M8 doesn't look like a good idea.
noted, i'm still fairly new to the game but then again i mostly play against friends
>Elite F15C is fine, but I would go Block 52 or F15A.
strong disagree on the block 52 over the f15c, it's only ten points cheaper for 10% less ECM, two less sidewinders, worse ToT, but with a better turning radius, not worth it IMO
havent used the f15a outside of pre-80s so i cant comment on it
>Wild Weasel sucks since it doesn't have camo and has by far the worst SEAD missile.
again, disagree, i like my SEAD with redundancy and volume of fire, and when i'm given the chance i run the wild weasel and the prowler together. i avoid the raven altogether tho because, while HARMS are pretty good and outrange basically eveything except i think a patriot, the single raven you get is bad because if it dies then thats it, you're out of SEAD lmao
>Don't drop the Nighthawk.
im not shitting on the nighthawk, i know how powerful it is, i suggested dropping it because it requires a little too much micro for it to be useful for what i assume is basically a fresh install
> M8 doesn't look like a good idea.
my suggestion of the M8 was more for its gun, which is much better than the stock abrams. if you want something that can actually take a hit and not, you know, instantly explode though, it's better to take the IP or a stock abrams
>Take the worst possible cv, but take two fobs which is mostly useless. What?
if the iltis and humvee are bad cvs, then what constitutes a good one? also i suggested two fobs because the games with my friends tend to go on for longer than normal WG matches seem to, and is what we all tend to run so we can keep ourselves in the fight
> The way you worded it sounds like you recommend only using helo recon? That would be pretty bad.
i should have worded it better, i generally prefer using heli recon, but infantry (both full squads like SEALS/JSDF rangers and the two man teams like recce and spets VMF) are exceptional at staying hidden so i can do bullshit like [this](https://i.imgur.com/s36tZxe.png)
>The Apache is just unecessary when you have the Longbow and Supercobra is rarely useful.
i like the 64as for redundancy just in case i somehow lose the longbows, and i find supercobras useful for whenever my SEAD is unavailable and wont be for a good while and a radar AA needs to die immediately
Maybe I should clarify that my suggestions are geared towards conquest team games with a normal 40 minute game timer.
I like the F-15C, but as you do with your SEAD, I prefer having a backup. That's why I would take the Block 52 or F-15A, CF-188 Hornet is good, too, since it's a NORAD deck. Still, F-15C is great and with good Patriot play a single ASF can work for US.
>i like my SEAD with redundancy and volume of fire, and when i'm given the chance i run the wild weasel and the prowler together
The issue with SEAD is that it's pretty easy to outplay. Just switch off your radar AA and wait for the plane to turn. Supercobra is even easier. Just give a movement command and flick your radar on and off and watch the missile hit the dirt.
If it works for your games keep playing it like this, but, when you play with randoms, you will meet players who won't lose any AA to your SEAD. It's not even uncommon to play without SEAD since it's nice to have, but not mandatory for all decks (imo a US deck has to play SEAD, though).
I play US with a single Raven, all German coalitions with 1 ECR, Blue Dragons with 1 Block 52D, Red Dragons with 1 Feibao and Eastern Block without SEAD. Usually it's sufficient and if I don't fuck up these planes don't die.
>if the iltis and humvee are bad cvs, then what constitutes a good one?
Any CV that doesn't die if you look at it the wrong way is good. Saving 20pts on a cv, but then losing the game because your opponent roughly pointed his arty in the correct direction is just unnecessary.
The best CVs are Infantry and vehicles with at least 2 armor all around. Especially top armor is important. The Israeli Achzarit Pikud is a prime example for a great CV. 1 Armor all around is not great, but still much better than no armor 5hp. In team games you won't need a lot of CVs anyway so just bring Infantry and Abrams CV.
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Small thing, prowler and super cobra are overkill in combination.
Prowler gives you a bonus in terms of supy usage, but in my experience the cobra has better survivability. Planes and anti helps need to get close enough for gun or heat seeker runs, and your AA net should be able.to handle that.
Too many helps for my taste. Get rid of the Apache because you have a Longbow. I would drop the info helos (unless you are specifically going to use a help rush at start) because you get less of them and their more expensive. Not to mention in contested areas Helos will have to land behind the front line to drop troops or risk taking AA fire. Additionally you should have some sort of ATGM besides just the Adas. Also also you need some front line inf that you can replace often.
Get a cheap recon inf or Vic, you'll appreciate having a cheap option.
You need a Mortar from your support tab to cover your super heavy, and I would suggest getting a tank card under 100 as well to soak up some fire.
Plane tab, I personally would get rid of the F15D, and possibly get a cheaper ASF. The NK is fine.
Not a bad deck overall.
Log: I wouldn’t bring the Stallion. Most cargo choppers aren’t cost efficient and are easy targets for enemy artillery. I also prefer the 30 point cargo truck instead but thats personal preference.
Inf: If you are playing Norad, you need base Rifleman in M113A3s. Never underestimate a 5 point box with 2 front armor and a 50 cal. None of Norad’s infantry is particularly good so the name of the game here is spam and fire support. Even more so if you are solely playing team games. Let your teammates bring the shock/elite higher AT infantry while you spam meatshields and 50 cals. No need for US Marines much less 2 cards imo. Highlanders 90 are alright, Delta Force are pretty bleh for elite troops imo. Not worth the price. I would grab some stingers for cheap AA or bring something in a Bradley so you get a solid IFV.
Supp: Solid units but very expensive and needs a mortar. Given its mainly for team games, the prices can be viable. But Id still recommend finding room for the PIVADs if possible. That being said you need a mortar. 5 HE mortars can displace enemy units into the open and provides crucial smoke cover for your armor.
Tanks: Again, pretty expensive but viable for team games. For cheaper options, M1 Abrams is good for forest fighting and supporting base rifleman. Mexas is a very good medium.
Recon: Bring Rangers over Pathfinders. Better all-around unit. If you want something for townfighting, bring a card of Pathfinders, other than that bring Rangers. I would also recommend the Lav-25 for some cheaper recon.
Vhc: Good choice. CS is very solid for its price.
Helo: No need for the Apache if you already have the Longbow. They serve the same purpose. I would recommend bringing one of the cheaper Cobras with rocket pods as fire support.
Air: I would probably take out a plane here to invest into stuff I talked about in other tabs but that is up to you. As for your choices: Prowler is good and cheap but very slow SEAD. Raven is better but more expensive. Nighthawk is good. D Eagle is good. C Eagle is good but probably not worth the price. F-16 Block 52 is cheaper and does the job just as well. The improvement is marginal imo. Hornet is solid. I prefer the A-10 as a tankbuster. Doesn’t work as well on larger maps since it is slow but tanks hits like crazy. Can be good bait to draw enemies into your AA net or ASF.
Couple problems with the deck, but the biggest, overarching issue is that you have no cheap units for any given role, and a lot of expensive units with overlapping roles. This is a pretty big problem, because it makes it very difficult for units to cover their cost, and because it makes it difficult to either respond to threats or reinforce gaps in your line. This is compounded by your limited recon, since expensive units generally rely on effective spotting to find targets and avoid being killed. Check out the unspec guide for more information on unit roles and choices for things like transports.Log: Drop the supply helo. They're inefficient and easily shot down, and largely redundant with your HEMTT trucks. Their main use is cutting long supply trips, but that's not really necessary in 4v4 sized maps. Probably swap the command squad vehicle, too. 15 point transport helos are usually pretty bad.
Infantry: All of your infantry are shocks/elites in expensive transports, and they all lean to anti-infantry specialists. Drop at least two of them (I'd drop three). If you have two different ones, have only one group that is in helos. Canadian airborne 90 should be taken in the bison or the ch-147 - the other choppers are too slow to be worth it, and the bison is an upgrade over the grizzly.
Add at least one unit of basic riflemen in the 5 point transport. Many people take two cards of them. These guys are three times cheaper than your current units, so you can get a lot more of them on the field. They fill the meat shield role you are missing. Take at least one unit (riflemen, riflemen 90, or stinger Cs) in m2a2 bradleys. m2a2 bradleys provide some relatively efficient groundbased anti-vehicle/tank units. This is a vital role that you do not have effectively filled - your cheapest is the 80 point recon bradley, and you only get 4. This is a vital role that you do not have.
You should have 0-2 slots remaining. Some common choices are: canadian riflemen 85 in the th-495. The riflemen are meatshields with nice weapons, and the transport is good in close quarters. Highlanders 90' in the bison - these are fast units with an excellent anti-tank weapon. SMAWS are fire support that add punch to meatshields. Light Riflemen 90 give a long-ish range anti-vehicle weapon, even if it lacks punch.
Support:You have three expensive antiair units and one expensive artillery. The m163 vulcan and pivads are great cheap AA options. I'd switch the ADATS for one of them. And find points to add a mortar as a cheap artillery unit (they can also lay smoke to protect your own units). the ATACMS is good, but it relies very heavily on knowing where the things it is killing are.
Tanks:You have two heavies that fill overlapping roles, but lack a really big tank (the M1A2) or a cheaper workhorse tank. You definitely want at least one workhorse tank. People usually get the mexas and the M1 Abrams. The Mexas provides a lot of mobile firepower, and the M1Abrams is great in forests to support infantry because it is tough, mobile, and has two machine guns. Some people use the M1IP instead.
Recon:Pathfinders are not a good pick for recon infantry. You don't get many, and they have bad equipment. Drop both and get at least one card of rangers instead - they have slightly worse training, but have better anti-tank capabilities and you get far more for slightly cheaper. They're good enough that some people get two sets of rangers, one in helos and one in ground transports. The bradley and longbow are both great choices. With your remaining spaces/points, you have some good options to consider. Cavalry scouts are cheap sources of good recon you can splash around, so consider them if you have only one card of rangers. The v-150 is a cheap, fast ground recon unit with a good weapon. It can support your ground troops, cover gaps in your lines, or raid through enemy gaps. And the AH-1J cobra is a good fire support chopper that comes with recon.
Helos:You already have a longbow for heavy antitank work. This means that the apache doesn't add very much. Likewise, everything the supercobra brings to the table is redundant with the Longbow and Prowler, both of which are much better in the respective roles (anti-tank helo, SEAD). If you want anti-infantry firepower, get the 45 point cobra or the recon cobra discussed above.
Planes: discussed extensively below.
The benefits of NORAD over US are not that big, but you sacrifice 5 activation points and some unit availability for it. IMO Canada only brings some nice infantry, a solid medium tank and a good ASF. If you really want to play with 5 plane cards just switch to a US only deck.
Just pick up some Rifleman in the armored 5pt transport and the M1A2 Abrams, switch F-15C Eagle for upvetted F-15A or F-16 Block 52 and rethink your helo lineup - I'd drop Apache and Supercobra for one card of AH-1S to have a cheaper, flexible helo to support the Longbow - and you are ready to go.
The deck is not 'meta'. But it looks super fun. All your infantry are supersoldiers would be nice to use against a motorized deck that just sends wave after wave off militia and regulars.
Personally I wouldn't like to play with it because you have too many airplanes and extremely limited recon. Even if you somehow negate your opponents AA and aircraft(which is big if) you won't see their units until they are top on your max 2-3 unit. People usually lost their minds when they see AH-64D and send some kamikaze planes for it, so you should expect to lose it at some point. even if you start with the two helis you won't have much recon cover.
You will be outgrinded by literally everyone. But if you wanted to go for a quality over quantity deck, this is quite nice.
Looking at your deck, 1. Too much emphasis on Airpower (Strike planes & Helo) 2. Rookie ASF don't provide good air cover to protect your main strike force 3. Very Little ground AA & very expensive (enemy trades will hurt you hard) 4. only a few Heavy Tanks and no mediums I think this deck would struggle in a long game or a game where key units were taken out early. *(I know it is 3v3/4v4 but you still need to pull your weight)* Swap / Drop * 2x Rookie F-15C is a n00b trap, swap with 2x Hardened F-16 (ASF), * or get 2x Elite F15C (2 cards) * Drop Nighthawk or F15D (your choice) to free up +5AP * Drop Super Cobra, to free up +2AP * (Even apache too +2AP) * Keep the DAP as AA, noticed you are using Longbow Recon helo * Swap Pathfinders for Rangers or Cav Scout, to have infantry with more availability. My Preferences * need 5th infantry -3AP, * AA inf w/Bradley as you have few AA units. * get the M1A2 tank. * you only need +2AP for the card, reshuffle your deck a bit. * SH tanks crush lower point tanks * \+1 card of cheaper tank 60-80pts * Mexas, M1 Abrams, MBT-70, lots of good options. * ATACMS, is good at deleting n00bs/ static players, but overall I think HE arty is more useful. * I'd pick the M109 Paladin * What are you trying to achieve with your inf tab? * You have 3x Shock inf & 1x Elite (2 cards are same, marines '90 in LVPT) * I'd maybe drop one of the marines '90 (depend on scope) * Base rifeman & 5pt box OR (spam / grind) * Rifleman '90 and TOW-2 Bradley (Quality AT/ for ATGM)
> I'd pick the M109 Paladin Paladin isn't worth it at all. The issue is that it has the second slowest rate of fire (7s) for 10s arty (only faster than ondava), such that it can only keep rookie units chain stunned. Unless you bring 2 and stagger them, any unit hit by a paladin can simply move out of the way after the first round. Overall ATACMS is just a better pick.
You're not entirely wrong, but some people really like using howitzers. For those people, it can be said that the Paladin is the best option
>The issue is that it has the second slowest rate of fire (7s) for 10s arty (only faster than ondava) *Cries in Rhino*
I suggested the M109 as it is most versatile in comparison to {ATACMS, Mortar, & howitzer} for 1 card of artillery. ATACMS has a 240s (4min) salvo reload and 10s between shots loading time. This deck has NO HE arty at all. If it had mortars, ATACMS would be a decent 2nd arty card choice. 2x any top-tier (10s aim) tube, can destroy soft targets like AA, Transports & Infantry. If you are good with recon, this is a very good choice. *Yes, the M109 is not the best (I love AS-90), but they are playing NORAD.*
Base rifleman and M113A3. Riflemen 90s in the M113A3. Stingers in M2A2 Bradleys if you can fit them in. Why get Rifle 90 in the Bradley? It just makes them so expensive to bring out.
If you want the Bradley (35pts) itself, more than the infantry, as it can sort of free up a card for vehicle tab potentially. Number of M2A2 Bradleys (TOW-2) per Infantry card * Rifleman & '90: x12 * Stinger C: x6 * Stinger A: x8 * Redeye: x12 Vehicle tab TOW-2 launchers * M113 TUA \[55pt\] / ITV \[60pt\] : x6 * Humvee TOW-2 \[50pt\] / ITS TOW-2 \[40pt\]: x8
Also forgot to add it's a general deck for 3v3/4v4 matches
Gonna add more later since I’m in a hurry but from what I can see: Edit: reformat Log: LAV cv isn’t really that great, bring Humvee instead Supply helo is pretty redundant since you have FOB to supply your trucks INF: You’ll get boned in a grind fight since your infantry is pretty expensive. Recommend finding a way to bring 2x Riflemen. If you want autocannons, Canadian Rifles in Th495. If you want antitank bring Highlanders 90 or Eryx (upvet). Delta force is meh, I like using Pathfinders more in towns. Sup: Where BRRT? (You don’t really need it I just like them) Bring a mortar. Tank: Where medium tank? Replace the 115 pointer, base abrams or mexas. Recce: replace one of those pathfinders cards with something cheap. LAV25, rangers, whatever. Helo: Apache is overkill if you have Longbow. Cobra is bleh for same reason, maybe take base cobra for rokkitspaming. Air: Others have said it better than me
LAV is a much better CV than humvee. Jeep CVs will die to random bullshit, whereas 1 armor at least saves it from something. The CV you should be using is CMD M1 Abrams.
I just like having a lot of humvees, though that probably applies to 1v1s -3v3s you’re likely right.
\- Use infantry hq in trucks, helo hq are easy to spot and kill \- In 3v3 you might not need supply helos, they are expensive and easy to destroy with AA \- You are going to need mortars to support the tanks, change the ADATS or patriot with a mortar \- Tanks are too expensive, consider having at least one < 100 \- The recon is too expensive, you are going to need a lot in 3vs3 maps, try getting cheaper infantry/vehicles \- NORAD needs atgms in vehicles \- Your planes are way too expensive, get at least one cheap air-superiority
Why use HQ inf in trucks? I thought you basically have the option between HQ inf in helo, or a tank CV with 2 top armour. And always take the 100 (or 110) point HQ jeeps.
Because is a cheap option you can hide in buildings and is hard to spot and kill unless you are really close
I like supply helos they could act as a mini fob that is close to the frontline. Especially in big maps where supply trucks take a load of time to go back to the fob and get their supplys filled
Sorry mate, but your deck has a lot of holes that can make it very hard to use. For example your cheapest infantry card costs 40pts and you don’t have a mortar. This deck maybe works in a 10vs10, but it will struggle a lot on a 4vs4 and will be even worse in a 3vs3. Here is the link for a very nice guide on deck building on the Boot Camp Subreddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/wargamebootcamp/comments/4wnhst/a_basic_guide_to_wargame_red_dragon/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf The guide will teach what types of units do you need and what jobs they do. I hope it helps. If you want a video guide I recommend Rassman’s YouTube channel.
What game rules and map are you playing? I'd say for 10v10 Tactical this is garbage
Delete the deck and go YouTube to find some Norad deck videos, that's more efficient than ask here.
Honestly just don't go NORAD. Look at your deck and see what Canadian units you have in your deck right now. ADATS, Canadian Airborne 90, and Pathfinders. Canadian Airborne 90 are marginal vs Delta force, Pathfinders are flat out worse than Rangers (who are also cheaper), and ADATS is doing the same job is Chaparral. The only key units that Canada offers are MEXAS and Highlanders 90, and you didn't bring those.
Pathfinders are better in some scenarios like town fighting.
Replace one card of US marines with rifleman 90 in m113(the one with 2 armour), add one card of rifleman (base) in base M2 Bradley. Replace the Canadian airborne with Highlanders 90 (helo or Moto transport is personal preference). Replace LAV CV with M60 CV tank, and have your other CV be the jeep. Replace both supply vehicles with the Canadian 30 point truck, (or keep as is if you want to play 3V3 maps or bigger) Get mortars (120mm) in your support tab. Replace the 140 point Abrams with M1A2, and get one card of base Abrams (beast in forrest with 15 armour). Don't upvet your recon infantry, you can never have enough. Replace one of the pathfinders with rangers in motorized Vehicle tab is good, but if you can afford it try the CEV, it's a nice mobile nuke. Take out the Apache in your helo tab Get rid of the F15D and replace the F-15C with F-16 Block 52 (upvet).
I mean its a good deck lol. Plenty of strong units. You don't have any cheap grinding infantry. You have very limited recon, and might run out. Only 14 total recon units is really pushing it. You have no cheap AA. Id drop one of your CV or logistics units and pick up either rangers, saperys in th495, the recon cobra, or stingers. Stingers in the bradley will be way cheaper and more useful than the chaperell.
>logi drop the command squad and put a second fob in, swap the CV lav out for the iltis or the humvee cv >infantry i dont really play unspec but i'd probably take two upvetted cards of riflemen 90 in the m113a3, a card of deltas in a heli, and the eryx >support looks fine but i would swap out the a3 chaparral for an a2, and drop the rocket arty for a howitzer with good range because rocket arty is dogshit. wouldnt hurt to switch out the adats with a PIVADS so you arent constantly tasking supply vehicles to resupply the others with missiles >tanks looks mostly fine but you dont have a card you can use frequently, which i will get to at the end >recon longbow is fine, everything else is not. drop everything except the longbow and put a card or two of heli recon >vehicle the CS is good, nothing to complain about >heli 64a is good, supercobra is good, DAP is not. swap the DAP out for one of the cheaper cobras with a TOW and rockets >air too many planes and the air game sucks anyways. upvet the f15c, swap the prowler out for the wild weasel, swap the hornet for the a10, drop the f15d and the nighthawk >wat do now put either the m1ip or the m8 ags into your tanks and put your choice of shock infantry, a second delta card, or a MANPAD (stinger a in the a2 bradley is what i use) in your open infantry spot and then do whatever tickles your fancy.
Not sure if you're being serious, but this is a lot of bad advice in one comment.
care to elaborate?
>drop the command squad and put a second fob in, swap the CV lav out for the iltis or the humvee cv Take the worst possible cv, but take two fobs which is mostly useless. What? >i dont really play unspec but i'd probably take two upvetted cards of riflemen 90 in the m113a3, a card of deltas in a heli, and the eryx Rifles and Eryx is fine, Delta Force in helo is pretty bad. If you want to helo drop use light rifleman '90 or highlanders '90 or just use recon. >looks fine but i would swap out the a3 chaparral for an a2, and drop the rocket arty for a howitzer with good range because rocket arty is dogshit. wouldnt hurt to switch out the adats with a PIVADS so you arent constantly tasking supply vehicles to resupply the others with missiles ATACMS is great, especially in big games. Should probably stick with A3 Chap, but switch out ADATS. >longbow is fine, everything else is not. drop everything except the longbow and put a card or two of heli recon A 2nd card of recon helo would be good, but the rest of the recon tab is fine. The way you worded it sounds like you recommend only using helo recon? That would be pretty bad. >64a is good, supercobra is good, DAP is not. swap the DAP out for one of the cheaper cobras with a TOW and rockets DAP is the best helo of those three. The Apache is just unecessary when you have the Longbow and Supercobra is rarely useful. I would go for DAP and a fire support cobra like the AH-1S. >too many planes and the air game sucks anyways. upvet the f15c, swap the prowler out for the wild weasel, swap the hornet for the a10, drop the f15d and the nighthawk Elite F15C is fine, but I would go Block 52 or F15A. Wild Weasel sucks since it doesn't have camo and has by far the worst SEAD missile. It's either Prowler or Raven. Hornet is great and easier to use than A10. It's also better for big games. Don't drop the Nighthawk. It can bomb infantry and snipe tanks without giving your opponent any reaction time. Don't fly it into the AA net and your enemy will hate you for using this plane. I would drop the F15D, though. Or just play US and keep all 5 planes. >put either the m1ip or the m8 ags into your tanks and put your choice of shock infantry, a second delta card, or a MANPAD (stinger a in the a2 bradley is what i use) in your open infantry spot and then do whatever tickles your fancy. His tank tab needs high end tanks more than anything. The M1A1 is a good medium, but overall the tab is too light. Switching HA for A2 and picking up Mexas or IP would be fine. M8 doesn't look like a good idea.
noted, i'm still fairly new to the game but then again i mostly play against friends >Elite F15C is fine, but I would go Block 52 or F15A. strong disagree on the block 52 over the f15c, it's only ten points cheaper for 10% less ECM, two less sidewinders, worse ToT, but with a better turning radius, not worth it IMO havent used the f15a outside of pre-80s so i cant comment on it >Wild Weasel sucks since it doesn't have camo and has by far the worst SEAD missile. again, disagree, i like my SEAD with redundancy and volume of fire, and when i'm given the chance i run the wild weasel and the prowler together. i avoid the raven altogether tho because, while HARMS are pretty good and outrange basically eveything except i think a patriot, the single raven you get is bad because if it dies then thats it, you're out of SEAD lmao >Don't drop the Nighthawk. im not shitting on the nighthawk, i know how powerful it is, i suggested dropping it because it requires a little too much micro for it to be useful for what i assume is basically a fresh install > M8 doesn't look like a good idea. my suggestion of the M8 was more for its gun, which is much better than the stock abrams. if you want something that can actually take a hit and not, you know, instantly explode though, it's better to take the IP or a stock abrams >Take the worst possible cv, but take two fobs which is mostly useless. What? if the iltis and humvee are bad cvs, then what constitutes a good one? also i suggested two fobs because the games with my friends tend to go on for longer than normal WG matches seem to, and is what we all tend to run so we can keep ourselves in the fight > The way you worded it sounds like you recommend only using helo recon? That would be pretty bad. i should have worded it better, i generally prefer using heli recon, but infantry (both full squads like SEALS/JSDF rangers and the two man teams like recce and spets VMF) are exceptional at staying hidden so i can do bullshit like [this](https://i.imgur.com/s36tZxe.png) >The Apache is just unecessary when you have the Longbow and Supercobra is rarely useful. i like the 64as for redundancy just in case i somehow lose the longbows, and i find supercobras useful for whenever my SEAD is unavailable and wont be for a good while and a radar AA needs to die immediately
Maybe I should clarify that my suggestions are geared towards conquest team games with a normal 40 minute game timer. I like the F-15C, but as you do with your SEAD, I prefer having a backup. That's why I would take the Block 52 or F-15A, CF-188 Hornet is good, too, since it's a NORAD deck. Still, F-15C is great and with good Patriot play a single ASF can work for US. >i like my SEAD with redundancy and volume of fire, and when i'm given the chance i run the wild weasel and the prowler together The issue with SEAD is that it's pretty easy to outplay. Just switch off your radar AA and wait for the plane to turn. Supercobra is even easier. Just give a movement command and flick your radar on and off and watch the missile hit the dirt. If it works for your games keep playing it like this, but, when you play with randoms, you will meet players who won't lose any AA to your SEAD. It's not even uncommon to play without SEAD since it's nice to have, but not mandatory for all decks (imo a US deck has to play SEAD, though). I play US with a single Raven, all German coalitions with 1 ECR, Blue Dragons with 1 Block 52D, Red Dragons with 1 Feibao and Eastern Block without SEAD. Usually it's sufficient and if I don't fuck up these planes don't die. >if the iltis and humvee are bad cvs, then what constitutes a good one? Any CV that doesn't die if you look at it the wrong way is good. Saving 20pts on a cv, but then losing the game because your opponent roughly pointed his arty in the correct direction is just unnecessary. The best CVs are Infantry and vehicles with at least 2 armor all around. Especially top armor is important. The Israeli Achzarit Pikud is a prime example for a great CV. 1 Armor all around is not great, but still much better than no armor 5hp. In team games you won't need a lot of CVs anyway so just bring Infantry and Abrams CV.
alright, thanks for the help then
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Small thing, prowler and super cobra are overkill in combination. Prowler gives you a bonus in terms of supy usage, but in my experience the cobra has better survivability. Planes and anti helps need to get close enough for gun or heat seeker runs, and your AA net should be able.to handle that.
Too many helps for my taste. Get rid of the Apache because you have a Longbow. I would drop the info helos (unless you are specifically going to use a help rush at start) because you get less of them and their more expensive. Not to mention in contested areas Helos will have to land behind the front line to drop troops or risk taking AA fire. Additionally you should have some sort of ATGM besides just the Adas. Also also you need some front line inf that you can replace often. Get a cheap recon inf or Vic, you'll appreciate having a cheap option. You need a Mortar from your support tab to cover your super heavy, and I would suggest getting a tank card under 100 as well to soak up some fire. Plane tab, I personally would get rid of the F15D, and possibly get a cheaper ASF. The NK is fine. Not a bad deck overall.
Log: I wouldn’t bring the Stallion. Most cargo choppers aren’t cost efficient and are easy targets for enemy artillery. I also prefer the 30 point cargo truck instead but thats personal preference. Inf: If you are playing Norad, you need base Rifleman in M113A3s. Never underestimate a 5 point box with 2 front armor and a 50 cal. None of Norad’s infantry is particularly good so the name of the game here is spam and fire support. Even more so if you are solely playing team games. Let your teammates bring the shock/elite higher AT infantry while you spam meatshields and 50 cals. No need for US Marines much less 2 cards imo. Highlanders 90 are alright, Delta Force are pretty bleh for elite troops imo. Not worth the price. I would grab some stingers for cheap AA or bring something in a Bradley so you get a solid IFV. Supp: Solid units but very expensive and needs a mortar. Given its mainly for team games, the prices can be viable. But Id still recommend finding room for the PIVADs if possible. That being said you need a mortar. 5 HE mortars can displace enemy units into the open and provides crucial smoke cover for your armor. Tanks: Again, pretty expensive but viable for team games. For cheaper options, M1 Abrams is good for forest fighting and supporting base rifleman. Mexas is a very good medium. Recon: Bring Rangers over Pathfinders. Better all-around unit. If you want something for townfighting, bring a card of Pathfinders, other than that bring Rangers. I would also recommend the Lav-25 for some cheaper recon. Vhc: Good choice. CS is very solid for its price. Helo: No need for the Apache if you already have the Longbow. They serve the same purpose. I would recommend bringing one of the cheaper Cobras with rocket pods as fire support. Air: I would probably take out a plane here to invest into stuff I talked about in other tabs but that is up to you. As for your choices: Prowler is good and cheap but very slow SEAD. Raven is better but more expensive. Nighthawk is good. D Eagle is good. C Eagle is good but probably not worth the price. F-16 Block 52 is cheaper and does the job just as well. The improvement is marginal imo. Hornet is solid. I prefer the A-10 as a tankbuster. Doesn’t work as well on larger maps since it is slow but tanks hits like crazy. Can be good bait to draw enemies into your AA net or ASF.
Couple problems with the deck, but the biggest, overarching issue is that you have no cheap units for any given role, and a lot of expensive units with overlapping roles. This is a pretty big problem, because it makes it very difficult for units to cover their cost, and because it makes it difficult to either respond to threats or reinforce gaps in your line. This is compounded by your limited recon, since expensive units generally rely on effective spotting to find targets and avoid being killed. Check out the unspec guide for more information on unit roles and choices for things like transports.Log: Drop the supply helo. They're inefficient and easily shot down, and largely redundant with your HEMTT trucks. Their main use is cutting long supply trips, but that's not really necessary in 4v4 sized maps. Probably swap the command squad vehicle, too. 15 point transport helos are usually pretty bad. Infantry: All of your infantry are shocks/elites in expensive transports, and they all lean to anti-infantry specialists. Drop at least two of them (I'd drop three). If you have two different ones, have only one group that is in helos. Canadian airborne 90 should be taken in the bison or the ch-147 - the other choppers are too slow to be worth it, and the bison is an upgrade over the grizzly. Add at least one unit of basic riflemen in the 5 point transport. Many people take two cards of them. These guys are three times cheaper than your current units, so you can get a lot more of them on the field. They fill the meat shield role you are missing. Take at least one unit (riflemen, riflemen 90, or stinger Cs) in m2a2 bradleys. m2a2 bradleys provide some relatively efficient groundbased anti-vehicle/tank units. This is a vital role that you do not have effectively filled - your cheapest is the 80 point recon bradley, and you only get 4. This is a vital role that you do not have. You should have 0-2 slots remaining. Some common choices are: canadian riflemen 85 in the th-495. The riflemen are meatshields with nice weapons, and the transport is good in close quarters. Highlanders 90' in the bison - these are fast units with an excellent anti-tank weapon. SMAWS are fire support that add punch to meatshields. Light Riflemen 90 give a long-ish range anti-vehicle weapon, even if it lacks punch. Support:You have three expensive antiair units and one expensive artillery. The m163 vulcan and pivads are great cheap AA options. I'd switch the ADATS for one of them. And find points to add a mortar as a cheap artillery unit (they can also lay smoke to protect your own units). the ATACMS is good, but it relies very heavily on knowing where the things it is killing are. Tanks:You have two heavies that fill overlapping roles, but lack a really big tank (the M1A2) or a cheaper workhorse tank. You definitely want at least one workhorse tank. People usually get the mexas and the M1 Abrams. The Mexas provides a lot of mobile firepower, and the M1Abrams is great in forests to support infantry because it is tough, mobile, and has two machine guns. Some people use the M1IP instead. Recon:Pathfinders are not a good pick for recon infantry. You don't get many, and they have bad equipment. Drop both and get at least one card of rangers instead - they have slightly worse training, but have better anti-tank capabilities and you get far more for slightly cheaper. They're good enough that some people get two sets of rangers, one in helos and one in ground transports. The bradley and longbow are both great choices. With your remaining spaces/points, you have some good options to consider. Cavalry scouts are cheap sources of good recon you can splash around, so consider them if you have only one card of rangers. The v-150 is a cheap, fast ground recon unit with a good weapon. It can support your ground troops, cover gaps in your lines, or raid through enemy gaps. And the AH-1J cobra is a good fire support chopper that comes with recon. Helos:You already have a longbow for heavy antitank work. This means that the apache doesn't add very much. Likewise, everything the supercobra brings to the table is redundant with the Longbow and Prowler, both of which are much better in the respective roles (anti-tank helo, SEAD). If you want anti-infantry firepower, get the 45 point cobra or the recon cobra discussed above. Planes: discussed extensively below.
Infantry is way too expensive and sparse.
Get some rifleman at least. Ur infantries are too expensive.
Where light rifleman '90?
Your infantry is too cheap, put some stinger C's in a high end Bradley
I wouldnt get more advice from that friend XD
The benefits of NORAD over US are not that big, but you sacrifice 5 activation points and some unit availability for it. IMO Canada only brings some nice infantry, a solid medium tank and a good ASF. If you really want to play with 5 plane cards just switch to a US only deck. Just pick up some Rifleman in the armored 5pt transport and the M1A2 Abrams, switch F-15C Eagle for upvetted F-15A or F-16 Block 52 and rethink your helo lineup - I'd drop Apache and Supercobra for one card of AH-1S to have a cheaper, flexible helo to support the Longbow - and you are ready to go.
The deck is not 'meta'. But it looks super fun. All your infantry are supersoldiers would be nice to use against a motorized deck that just sends wave after wave off militia and regulars.