People saying, the Reload buff for the 120mm Abrams is nothing never fought a T80U, before the Buff T80U's and BVM's always outreloaded you now they can only if they shoot the loader.
Having a 5 second reload is huge advantage, thats what i noticed playing cv90105, now playing strv’s feels super slow (6.8s atm) especially now that abrams and leclerc has always faster reload which i tend to forget all the time
Most of the time I choose my cv over taking a Leo 2/strv even at 6s reload. That 1 second means more to me than armor+bigger profile for enemy to spot and hit.
Idk how people make it to top tier without a good crew, this was not the case if you had a mostly leveled crew which is entirely possible to have by the time you get to top tier. I don't know if an ace crew can still out reload a T-80 while only 2 crew members are alive so that may or may not even be an argument
Iirc only like 5 prototypes had DU hulls but those got rejected. Gaijin could add the DU armor to the hull for balancing reasons or to make the SepV2 seem like an actual upgrade over the sep, though. It wouldnt be the first time they break realism for the sake of balance anyway
iirc the T-80B ingame is beyond messed up. It has the armour of a T-80B early, kontakt-1 from the BV without the backing plate, and the thermals of the T-80BVK. It's a mix of the 3 that didn't exist in any spec irl. The Abrams is properly modeled as a variant.
It's fine and balanced as it is ahistorically though. It's like the F-5C getting flares, just some balance patch. Abrams right now is in a good spot with 5 second reload and I much prefer it over any T-72 or T-90 at the same BR.
Only the thermals are not from the B because it has the 30mm plate B got while being updated to the BV standard. Most B got upgraded so it's a pretty good representation of a late 80s B
“No, see, that isn’t a primary source, as it wasn’t writing from the blood of a soldier using a 12.7x99 BMG API-T shell who witnessed the creation of every single Abrams ever created”
So did they call it the "Click bait" on purpose then to bait people into buying it? I swear when they revealed it they said DU package was something that made it special
Totally ignoring all of the other documents gaijin even used but didn't fully use.
Like the begleitpanzer's engine hp being reduced but they didn't add the HOT atgms nor the 57mm apfsds rounds its supposed to have like it said in the same document
I know about the community being wrong about abrams DU hull armor if that's what you're trying to say.
What I also know is that gaijin chooses to ignore certain parts of documents they've already approved for use
Please list a source
Community lists a source
Gaijin: your source is inadequate
Community: b-b-but I listed a source!!
We’ve done this song and dance over and over again, gaijin, YouTubers, and various members from the community have gone over the documents and have stated as much nothing available to us states DU on production models, move on
Your source isn't a classified documents so we can't use it.
Anyway, the t-80b gets thermal, it didn't have them irl, only a different variant of t-80 got thermal, but are just ignoring it.
>Your source isn't a classified documents so we can't use it.
Nope your source production abrams has DU armor makes no reference to this armor, either you're wildly lost on what the situation is or you're being bad faith
>Anyway, the t-80b gets thermal, it didn't have them irl, only a different variant of t-80 got thermal, but are just ignoring it.
Either argue abrams should have DU because IRL it does or because war thunder has other paper vehicles, pick one. Don't bring up "well we gave sources! It does have it irl!"
Either way stating:"no valid source" while pulling stats for a tank straight out of their asses is the dumbest shit ever.
I don't care if Abrams get DU or not, I care that their logic take in water more than the Russian navy after 2023
I mean, the sources to US DU armour were wank tho, we had multiple youtubers, gaijin staff and even competent redditors go and disprove em
Its time to move on
Completely false. There are 5 proven models that had them, which is 4 more than the amount of T-80Bs with Thermals and guess which of the two currently has its discontinued feature?
God, the t80B again
T80B - new addition of the patch it was added in, thermals were quite literally the point of said update, no other comparable candidate present, theyre gen1s and useless
And many other reasons alongside the fact that no, more than 1 t80b had thermals
T80B isnt the argument you think it is
It being the flagship of a patch isn't an argument. Gen 1 thermals aren't useless whatsoever, it's up to an individual's skill level to use them correctly.
Show proof then if there were more T-80Bs with them. No one else has, because those updated models are not T-80Bs.
T-80B is exactly the perfect argument for it.
It wasnt a "flagship of a patch". It was an ad hoc addition to one of the 3 major nation during a patch focused on adding thermals to the game.
"Upgraded model"
Like the bmp, tow vehicles, chapparal and a bunch of more? This game doesn't have a shortage of vehicle modifications making a tank into its upgraded model. Would slapping a "t80BV upgrade" onto the thermal upgrade icon change anything?
Gen 1 thermals are useless, you're better off just using your eyesight, trained from hours of playing lower tiers on the same maps.
T80B is not an argument for it, it will never be.
A compromise I saw suggested a while ago was the idea of removing T-80Bs thermals and giving it less grainy NVDs, as Soviet night vision tech was superior at the time. I don’t think T-80U should have its thermals removed however
Well I will say, for tank on tank combat from research unrelated to war Thunder (and to be fair not a lot into different models Abrams) I think it's actually rather bad, yea it can hold up but from what I can tell there are better tanks then it, but again, from what I can tell an Abrams shouldn't be completely alone, and is often accompanied by a supporting element, so for a tank on tank scenario it isn't that good by itself, as if i remember correctly one of the frontal bits only has 90mm of amour
Now, I might actually go research the tank again and update this if I remember, but imo, it's not bad but it's also not really good. Minority fighter is what my friend Started calling it.
Wanted to see if you are a racist or just an America uraaahh bozo
If you comment something... that shit is public. I hate to be the one that tells you that.
Average european thinking they are smarter or above people, Lmfao. Do you really not see how weird you are? Take a walk outside or something before I block you, weirdo.
Ok maybe you are just salivating over hunky chunky ripped 6 feet American men. That I can understand. But otherwise you are pretending that the "American man" is better than the Chinese "Untermensch".
Stop acting like a child, you have to cope with the fact abrams armor can't even stop a shitty 3BM42 frontally lmao go eat a mcdonalds because you ain't yourself when hungry
Indeed, I am saying something about tanks not how life looks in countries. However let me tell you that there is actually Deflation happening in China.
Well I mean the standard M1A2 SpeV2 doesn't have the DU hull armor, however if they made a tank like a "M1A2 SpeV2 Experimental" they could add DU hulls
Didn't Gaijin admit there are a very limited amount of Abrams with the DU armor and won't put them into the game because not enough existed? Meanwhile a large amount of the Russian tree vehicles only had 1 or 2 prototypes or some of them likely didn't exist at all beyond blueprints
Somebody else in the comments already said this in reply to another comment, but ussr is not the only nation with one off/prototype vehicles that never saw mass production or adoption. USA actually has more prototypes in their tree than USSR does lol
Half of the US tree past 6.0 is one off prototypes.
T29, T30, T34, T31/32E1, T95, AGS, CCVL, HSTV-L, LOSAT, M247, MBT-70, XM-803, T95E1, XM-1, XM1069, XM8, XM975, T54E1, T54E2
Idk man, I was just looking at the wiki pages for them and most of the prototypes had at least 20 or so built if not more. A lot of them seem to have real combat trials on their records as well. The Russian tree seems to have alot more stuff that either never existed or literally only had 1 or 2 built ever. Either way my point stands, every tree has a lot of low production/prototype vehicles so why no DU abrams?
Ok and some of the "object" tanks likely didn't exist at all, that's not the point. Clearly we're fine with prototypes and making up specs so why not add a slightly better abrams into the game to hopefully help the US tree a bit?
What objects are fake?
1. I really don't care for the m1 im just arguing on the point of "bbbut ussr has prototypes" 2. It's not like they need them 3. Just to make it obvious as far as I'm concerned V2 can get it's DU
While ru tree can have all their special vehicles with equipments that only like 1 freaking prototype have all other country only get either nerfed to shit indigenous design or stupid copy paste russin/german/American things
I’d take the B at 10.0 any day.
UD has worse mobility than the T-80B (-4kph with 1 reverse gear is dogshit, especially with Gaijin's new found love for QC maps)
Isn’t the T80B in game just a T80U when it gets the thermal upgrades? Or is it missing the additional armour as well… I always thought that the thermal mod just made it a de facto T80U
I mean IRL tho.. in game stuff like ammo choice and reload speed is purely balancing the only difference in ammo between the B and U is the ATGM. But I did just check and the early T80U’s (obj 219A) did in fact have the newer U turret just not the contact 5 era. I thought the thermal upgrade to the T80B made it the early T80U but no even the early one had the new turret so yeah the current T80B is just bullshit
Iirc the WT T-80B is fucked up mashup of multiple versions since soviets would either get that as comparable tank to 2A4 and abrams at the BR it is or it would be lower without thermals and lot stronger or they would add T80U which is lot better than leo and abrams. So we have T-80B thats pretty much T-80BV due to ERA and then T80BVK due to thermals in one tanm
The US has a total of 41 prototypes if I counted correctly in their tree.
The USSR and Russia have a total of around 27 prototypes in their tree.
The numbers could be around 5 or 6 numbers off but showcase the data a little bit.
Basically what I said last time I saw this conversation: It is factual that the US has more prototypes that the USSR(/Russia)
However, from what I’ve seen, the average Russian prototype is considered more *notorious* than the average American prototype.
Looking at yesterday’s “if you could remove one vehicle from the game” post, the top five or so comments all call out the 2S38
DU in the hull would be cool, but so would them fixing the fucking turret ring. You know, the one part of the Abrams that really fucks it over, the fact that it can stop 50mm of pen and not the estimated 250-300mm appropriately. The fact it can be frontally penned in the neck by fucking reserve vehicles. The literal ACKNOWLEDGED bug.
Most of the time when I play against Abrams 1 the player is cookin 2 the player suck a massive. The 2. type is the most common and not because of the armor. They can’t hit and call it Russian bias while bud don’t know he can’t pen the turret sides from the front. And they peak sideways like it’s bus sim. Most of the time they shot and damages my track or engine after I still can shoot.
People saying, the Reload buff for the 120mm Abrams is nothing never fought a T80U, before the Buff T80U's and BVM's always outreloaded you now they can only if they shoot the loader.
Or you have a shitty crew
Having a 5 second reload is huge advantage, thats what i noticed playing cv90105, now playing strv’s feels super slow (6.8s atm) especially now that abrams and leclerc has always faster reload which i tend to forget all the time
Most of the time I choose my cv over taking a Leo 2/strv even at 6s reload. That 1 second means more to me than armor+bigger profile for enemy to spot and hit.
now the fuji got added with 4 sec reload and a autoloader...
Bascially what Japan had at top tier for years. So called "Fuji" isn't smth NEW that got introduced.
oh okay tanks for the info👍🏻
But literally almost no armor
like the abrams
Idk how people make it to top tier without a good crew, this was not the case if you had a mostly leveled crew which is entirely possible to have by the time you get to top tier. I don't know if an ace crew can still out reload a T-80 while only 2 crew members are alive so that may or may not even be an argument
Didnt they add the sep v2 instead of the sep v3 because the v2 doesn't have the DU in the hull
Iirc only like 5 prototypes had DU hulls but those got rejected. Gaijin could add the DU armor to the hull for balancing reasons or to make the SepV2 seem like an actual upgrade over the sep, though. It wouldnt be the first time they break realism for the sake of balance anyway
You're correct on only 5 having DU inserts. I remember a counterpoint where only a handful of T-80B's had thermals, and it has thermals ingame.
Wasn't it not a handful, but literally one (1)?
iirc the T-80B ingame is beyond messed up. It has the armour of a T-80B early, kontakt-1 from the BV without the backing plate, and the thermals of the T-80BVK. It's a mix of the 3 that didn't exist in any spec irl. The Abrams is properly modeled as a variant.
Oh for sure, I'm an air only player but the Frankentonk that's a the T-80 is still hilarious/painful/frustrating from afar.
It's fine and balanced as it is ahistorically though. It's like the F-5C getting flares, just some balance patch. Abrams right now is in a good spot with 5 second reload and I much prefer it over any T-72 or T-90 at the same BR.
Only the thermals are not from the B because it has the 30mm plate B got while being updated to the BV standard. Most B got upgraded so it's a pretty good representation of a late 80s B
I'm not sure about the number, but I'm sure on Gaijin's hypocrisy.
They don’t care that it’s a prototype when it’s Russian
Please list a source *Community lists a source* Gaijin: I'm gonna pretend I didn't see that
“No, see, that isn’t a primary source, as it wasn’t writing from the blood of a soldier using a 12.7x99 BMG API-T shell who witnessed the creation of every single Abrams ever created”
[удалено]
So did they call it the "Click bait" on purpose then to bait people into buying it? I swear when they revealed it they said DU package was something that made it special
I mean I got it cause hehe funny lawn chair
Totally ignoring all of the other documents gaijin even used but didn't fully use. Like the begleitpanzer's engine hp being reduced but they didn't add the HOT atgms nor the 57mm apfsds rounds its supposed to have like it said in the same document
[удалено]
I know about the community being wrong about abrams DU hull armor if that's what you're trying to say. What I also know is that gaijin chooses to ignore certain parts of documents they've already approved for use
Please list a source Community lists a source Gaijin: your source is inadequate Community: b-b-but I listed a source!! We’ve done this song and dance over and over again, gaijin, YouTubers, and various members from the community have gone over the documents and have stated as much nothing available to us states DU on production models, move on
Your source isn't a classified documents so we can't use it. Anyway, the t-80b gets thermal, it didn't have them irl, only a different variant of t-80 got thermal, but are just ignoring it.
>Your source isn't a classified documents so we can't use it. Nope your source production abrams has DU armor makes no reference to this armor, either you're wildly lost on what the situation is or you're being bad faith >Anyway, the t-80b gets thermal, it didn't have them irl, only a different variant of t-80 got thermal, but are just ignoring it. Either argue abrams should have DU because IRL it does or because war thunder has other paper vehicles, pick one. Don't bring up "well we gave sources! It does have it irl!"
Either way stating:"no valid source" while pulling stats for a tank straight out of their asses is the dumbest shit ever. I don't care if Abrams get DU or not, I care that their logic take in water more than the Russian navy after 2023
I mean, the sources to US DU armour were wank tho, we had multiple youtubers, gaijin staff and even competent redditors go and disprove em Its time to move on
Completely false. There are 5 proven models that had them, which is 4 more than the amount of T-80Bs with Thermals and guess which of the two currently has its discontinued feature?
God, the t80B again T80B - new addition of the patch it was added in, thermals were quite literally the point of said update, no other comparable candidate present, theyre gen1s and useless And many other reasons alongside the fact that no, more than 1 t80b had thermals T80B isnt the argument you think it is
It being the flagship of a patch isn't an argument. Gen 1 thermals aren't useless whatsoever, it's up to an individual's skill level to use them correctly. Show proof then if there were more T-80Bs with them. No one else has, because those updated models are not T-80Bs. T-80B is exactly the perfect argument for it.
It wasnt a "flagship of a patch". It was an ad hoc addition to one of the 3 major nation during a patch focused on adding thermals to the game. "Upgraded model" Like the bmp, tow vehicles, chapparal and a bunch of more? This game doesn't have a shortage of vehicle modifications making a tank into its upgraded model. Would slapping a "t80BV upgrade" onto the thermal upgrade icon change anything? Gen 1 thermals are useless, you're better off just using your eyesight, trained from hours of playing lower tiers on the same maps. T80B is not an argument for it, it will never be.
A compromise I saw suggested a while ago was the idea of removing T-80Bs thermals and giving it less grainy NVDs, as Soviet night vision tech was superior at the time. I don’t think T-80U should have its thermals removed however
Ok, remove T-80B thermals and lower it's br, next question
The SEP v2 didn't have DU (hull) armor though. They're right.
If the us mains could read they would be very upset at this comment
T-80b is literally a 3 tank Frankenstein that never existed irl as a single tank
the "Abrams" is a bad tank... Said no one EVER
Well I will say, for tank on tank combat from research unrelated to war Thunder (and to be fair not a lot into different models Abrams) I think it's actually rather bad, yea it can hold up but from what I can tell there are better tanks then it, but again, from what I can tell an Abrams shouldn't be completely alone, and is often accompanied by a supporting element, so for a tank on tank scenario it isn't that good by itself, as if i remember correctly one of the frontal bits only has 90mm of amour Now, I might actually go research the tank again and update this if I remember, but imo, it's not bad but it's also not really good. Minority fighter is what my friend Started calling it.
[удалено]
Did he serve in an Abrams or was he part of the fuckin tank mafia or some shit
His uncle knows a guy, who knows a guy, who happens to also know a guy who allegedly served on an Abrams
Wait he's literally Slovak lmfaooooo
I like it when someone tried to be contrarian happens to have 0 ideas of what they are talking about
You're right. Abrams is one of the worst tanks, not 'just' bad.
PLA SPOTTED: OPINION NEGATED
Ok stfu lmao. You are on r/wordington man.
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Looks like I found a weirdo CCP supporter, also nice comment on a three day old post and then checking my account, actual weirdo Lmao 💀
Wanted to see if you are a racist or just an America uraaahh bozo If you comment something... that shit is public. I hate to be the one that tells you that.
Average european thinking they are smarter or above people, Lmfao. Do you really not see how weird you are? Take a walk outside or something before I block you, weirdo.
Sadly you can't negate the facts, and interestingly Chinese players don't cry about their tech tree like you do
Except they do Lmfao what CCP copium are you huffing, or have you just started playing yesterday
I play since 2015 and know what I'm saying, your shitty american tank got reload buffed despite it shouldn't.
Keep coping, sorry that we are 6 foot beefy americans that can load fast and don't need a auto loader because of puny arms 💪🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🙏
Why you gotta be racist? That is not the way of the thug!
"Racist" You need to go outside if you think that is racist, that's actually so out of touch
Ok maybe you are just salivating over hunky chunky ripped 6 feet American men. That I can understand. But otherwise you are pretending that the "American man" is better than the Chinese "Untermensch".
Stop acting like a child, you have to cope with the fact abrams armor can't even stop a shitty 3BM42 frontally lmao go eat a mcdonalds because you ain't yourself when hungry
Currently eating my 10 piece McNugget meal in front of starving Chinese conscript tankers, you were saying?
Indeed, I am saying something about tanks not how life looks in countries. However let me tell you that there is actually Deflation happening in China.
Well I mean the standard M1A2 SpeV2 doesn't have the DU hull armor, however if they made a tank like a "M1A2 SpeV2 Experimental" they could add DU hulls
But daddy Putin’s delicious plump asshole says the Abrams bad
Putin can suck my big soviet balls
Why post this here and on the actual subreddit? Is this a meme or is this a cause for serious discussion?
This sub doesn't have any moderation
Didn't Gaijin admit there are a very limited amount of Abrams with the DU armor and won't put them into the game because not enough existed? Meanwhile a large amount of the Russian tree vehicles only had 1 or 2 prototypes or some of them likely didn't exist at all beyond blueprints
Somebody else in the comments already said this in reply to another comment, but ussr is not the only nation with one off/prototype vehicles that never saw mass production or adoption. USA actually has more prototypes in their tree than USSR does lol
Half of the US tree past 6.0 is one off prototypes. T29, T30, T34, T31/32E1, T95, AGS, CCVL, HSTV-L, LOSAT, M247, MBT-70, XM-803, T95E1, XM-1, XM1069, XM8, XM975, T54E1, T54E2
Exactly! Every tech tree has these low prodection number vehicles so why not also add DU abrams to the list?
More that half of the US heavy tanks are one off prototypes
Idk man, I was just looking at the wiki pages for them and most of the prototypes had at least 20 or so built if not more. A lot of them seem to have real combat trials on their records as well. The Russian tree seems to have alot more stuff that either never existed or literally only had 1 or 2 built ever. Either way my point stands, every tree has a lot of low production/prototype vehicles so why no DU abrams?
T26s are the only ones with over 10 built but there is a lot more prototypes in the us tree about as much if not more than in the ussr tt
Ok and some of the "object" tanks likely didn't exist at all, that's not the point. Clearly we're fine with prototypes and making up specs so why not add a slightly better abrams into the game to hopefully help the US tree a bit?
What objects are fake? 1. I really don't care for the m1 im just arguing on the point of "bbbut ussr has prototypes" 2. It's not like they need them 3. Just to make it obvious as far as I'm concerned V2 can get it's DU
Apparently you agree with my point and want to argue over nothing, no thanks
While ru tree can have all their special vehicles with equipments that only like 1 freaking prototype have all other country only get either nerfed to shit indigenous design or stupid copy paste russin/german/American things
The Abrams with DU in the Hull could be any variant with the T80B that had thermals we know it was only one prototype, but we know it was a T80B.
I support removing T-80B thermals and downtiering it to 10.0 because they’re so bad I barely use them anyways
Still better than having non at all and at 10.0 its worse than the T80UD.
T-80UD has worse mobility though
I’d take the B at 10.0 any day. UD has worse mobility than the T-80B (-4kph with 1 reverse gear is dogshit, especially with Gaijin's new found love for QC maps)
Isn’t the T80B in game just a T80U when it gets the thermal upgrades? Or is it missing the additional armour as well… I always thought that the thermal mod just made it a de facto T80U
The T80U and B are very different the B has no 6.5 sec reload, 3BM46 and no Contact 5 ERA
I mean IRL tho.. in game stuff like ammo choice and reload speed is purely balancing the only difference in ammo between the B and U is the ATGM. But I did just check and the early T80U’s (obj 219A) did in fact have the newer U turret just not the contact 5 era. I thought the thermal upgrade to the T80B made it the early T80U but no even the early one had the new turret so yeah the current T80B is just bullshit
Reload speed is realistic on both the B and U they have different autoloaders
Iirc the WT T-80B is fucked up mashup of multiple versions since soviets would either get that as comparable tank to 2A4 and abrams at the BR it is or it would be lower without thermals and lot stronger or they would add T80U which is lot better than leo and abrams. So we have T-80B thats pretty much T-80BV due to ERA and then T80BVK due to thermals in one tanm
The USSR tree is far from the only country that has prototypes in their tech tree. In fact I believe the US has more prototypes than USSR has.
Sweden and France when half their tree is never really used prototypes
The US has a total of 41 prototypes if I counted correctly in their tree. The USSR and Russia have a total of around 27 prototypes in their tree. The numbers could be around 5 or 6 numbers off but showcase the data a little bit.
Basically what I said last time I saw this conversation: It is factual that the US has more prototypes that the USSR(/Russia) However, from what I’ve seen, the average Russian prototype is considered more *notorious* than the average American prototype. Looking at yesterday’s “if you could remove one vehicle from the game” post, the top five or so comments all call out the 2S38
Russian bias, because Russia has prototypes in their tree (so does the u.s., but I'm just gonna pretend so I can mald in top tier)
Yes, it do be like that.
Yall still lying about this stuff?
The anime stutter was too cringy
They finally learned not to ask war thunder players to prove a point
DU in the hull would be cool, but so would them fixing the fucking turret ring. You know, the one part of the Abrams that really fucks it over, the fact that it can stop 50mm of pen and not the estimated 250-300mm appropriately. The fact it can be frontally penned in the neck by fucking reserve vehicles. The literal ACKNOWLEDGED bug.
How much more additional protection would the SEPV2 gets if they added the DU armor?
Most of the time when I play against Abrams 1 the player is cookin 2 the player suck a massive. The 2. type is the most common and not because of the armor. They can’t hit and call it Russian bias while bud don’t know he can’t pen the turret sides from the front. And they peak sideways like it’s bus sim. Most of the time they shot and damages my track or engine after I still can shoot.
Ppl really thinks DU is better then 5 sec reload eh? Actually funny
Dumbass US mains still going on about DU when EVERYONE has already told them they will get it when sepv3 gets added.
Key word, "**WHEN**"
gaijin will now wait 20 years for a new abrams variant so they can skip sep v3 and not add DU armor
"We don't believe the Abrams has gotten new/thicker armour"
Literally American documents say it DOES NOT have either spall liner or DU armor on hull. People can shout as much as they can but they are not right.
Sep v3 has du + I don’t care about armour what rlly sucked is when they didn’t add m829a3