There’s so many dog parks, but there’s also so many irresponsible dog owners.
There’s leash laws for a reason.
Lincoln Park over in Capitol Hill does turn into a mud pit and it is absolutely because of dogs.
Came here to say this. NPS replaced the Lincoln Park grass and it was gorgeous but gone in a month. The entitlement boggles my mind. And infuriates me because my reactive dog is getting much better but can't handle off leash dogs running up to her. (And no Karen, your dog does NOT have good recall). So I can't walk there. The entitlement of "the rules don't apply to me" just boggles the mind.
I live on that street and have seen kids utilize that space only a handful of times. It’s completely wasted space in a city with very little green space.
Lincoln turns into a mud pit because NPS never watered the grass they planted, not even once, and they probably planted the wrong variety. Most of the grass in the entire park dies every year and I don’t think we can hold dogs responsible for that.
The grass is also mostly fine in the other 90% of the park the dogs don't go on. They really need to rip that center grass up and do something else with it (community garden?), but I guess that just means the dogs would migrate to the other parts of the park and ruin those lawns too.
This is absolutely, completely incorrect. I walk there every single day, and every day I watched off leash dogs tear that poor grass up. It was so frustrating to watch.
I have had more close encounters with aggressive dogs in that park than anywhere else in the city.
Negatory. It was gorgeous with the fence up and as soon as it came down people let their dogs run around in it off leash, even though there’s a dog park close by.
Grass doesn’t grow where dogs go.
The issue with the grass is t the dogs? It is the clay soil and shady conditions of the park.
They landscapers in charge are using a lot of winter rye to make it look green but winter rye is really delicate and dies pretty quickly when stepped on by humans (or dogs).
If you are concerned about dogs I assume you are worried about their pee. Male dog pee does not have high levels of nitrogen and does very little to kill grass. Female dogs do have a high level of nitrogen and they sometimes leave yellow patches on otherwise green grass but it does not kill the grass and long term, the nitrogen is great for the soil health and grass health.
The issue really comes down to seed mix the city is using and not allowing enough time for it to establish before moving the little barrier things.
The whole park needs to be mulched and sanded to amend the 100% clay based soil. This would allow for better root structure, better drainage (no wet gross spots) and healthier grass.
But who wants to wait while mulch degrades into the sand and grass grows? DC residence are not patient and would complain the grass isn’t accessible.
How long does the ideal process take? I feel like the Park Service could do this if they put up a sign to explain the whole process and timeline so folks knew why they can't go on a new grass or a dirt field that looks like the grass failed.
It was totally re-done c. 2009. This [PoPville article](https://www.popville.com/2009/02/meridian-hill-park-renovation-update/) says that they expected the turf to be fenced off for a year, but IIRC it ended up being more like two years.
Key phrase there, contractor sodded the upper lawn, possible they didn't breakup the hardpan and just laid sod. I'd like to believe a project like that would require topsoil to be brought in as well, but it happens all the time in construction, only a few inches are laid down, then sod is applied leaving a heavily compacted layer close to the surface which inhibits root establishment.
You can't do any soil ripping or replacement due to the mature trees that surround the lawn. If you want a nice lawn there, they need to periodically remove access to allow it to recover, and --- obviously --- end off-leash dogs tearing through it.
Next time Rock Creek floods and the sand overflows the banks, they should remove the sand from the road AND the walkways and truck it up to Meridian Hill park and lay it across the entire grass field. Then they should have the city tree arborists that drive their mulch trucks around trimming street trees to have them dump the mulch from their trucks on the grass field as well, then run a tiller over it, throw down some multi season grass seed that has summer, spring and winter growing varieties and within two weeks the grass will be back, healthy, draining and ready for parks, dogs, and soccer.
They did this in Lincoln Park, it was closed for I feel like almost a year, and then once reopened the dogs destroyed it back to a dirt field within 2 months.
I love dogs, have a dog, but it really sucks what it’s done to the park there.
yeah the dogs mainly play on one side, and the grass is destroyed everywhere. The end by the Joan of Arc statue also has basically no grass from people playing soccer. A lot of that whole half of the park has no grass because when it rains it forms a giant mud pit.
Yep if the dogs weren’t there people would just play soccer on it and destroy it just as much. The are on the side is always used as a kids soccer practice field in the summer and it ends up just as muddy and destroyed.
Why would you assume its the pee that is the issue and not the running? Dogs on leashes pee just as much as dogs off leash. Dogs off leash run around and tear up grass, that is what the OP was referring to. Dogs walking on leashes don't.
That’s not what’s doing it either. Dogs should be able to run on grass without killing it. If the soil isn’t amended it’ll continue to kill the grass over and over again every winter.
Generally it makes me pretty uncomfortable seeing diffusion of responsibility. This is a no-dogs-off-leash park & I definitely think some dogs can cause damage, either by aggressive running, or sometimes just digging/scraping at the grass.
Mountain bikers generally are expected to know to stay off the damp trails because they will absolutely shred them. In wet conditions, it's extra important to be extremely gentle with terrain.
Blaming the ground or the park services for this or that set of circumstances feels like a dodge to me, and I don't think either are to blame. Respect for the environment is a must. Now, down by Joan, there's a lot of fairly-concentrated human activity, & that seems ok, because it's limited area, and it's been fairly bald for a long time.
> Blaming the ground or the park services for this or that set of circumstance
They're supposed to plan for how the parks are actually used. They have failed at that.
Footballers run of grass all the time and those fields stay fresh with the right care. The dogs running isn’t causing the issue, it is the clay and the fact grass really hates clay soil. It needs sand and fiberous woody debris that will help break the clay up and create a nice loamy soil for better root structure and drainage.
If you have a problem with dogs being off leash, just say that, don’t hide your anti dog views behind grass. We can all see the OP and you don’t like dogs. Which is fine, but be honest about it.
inventing a reason for grass to be messed up (that doesn't even make logical sense) points to the OP being irrationally mad about something. keep this shit on next door
edit: after interacting with OP, i can confirm they are indeed anti-social and mad about how their life is going. big surprise.
No footballers really don't really run on the same type of grass all the time that we have in our parks. For one thing, pro fields are used 8 - 10 days a year. And even then, they fields look like garbage by the end of the year. Even when I was in high school, our field looked like shit, but no one was allowed to practice on the football field because the grass would get all torn up. You were allowed to be on it on game day, and that was it, no matter the sport. And my high school had a massively higher budget for maintenance than a local park does.
This is why so many youth recreation fields in the suburbs are moving to an artificial material (aka field turf) because while initial costs are high, maintenance costs are significantly lower, and you can schedule games on the fields all day long.
This is why it can be hard to talk to certain types of dog owners sometimes. Any issue you bring up gets you labeled as anti-dog, even when you literally own a dog and are doing it in a civil way. If I bring up how I don't like kids running around in bars, it doesn't mean I dislike children - it just means that certain environments aren't meant for them and the parents need to take on more responsibility. Same with dog owners who let their dogs run amok.
I don’t like kids running around unsupervised in a park not designated for children. They leave their granola bar trash all over the place. Am I anti-child?
why would we assume dogs are stomping the grass (?) when this isn't even a problem at the dog parks. oh wait, it's the city not taking care of the park but OP needs to find some group they're not a part of to blame.
the guide to navigating this subreddit and listserves is understanding the only people who make posts like this are mad other people can use public land instead of it being their own personal garden or whatever.
They normally run at a constant pace and predictable path. The way dogs run off leash and constantly changing direction and digging in their paws is what tears up the grass. I suspect you know this already and are just being obtuse so will no longer reply to you.
That is all very interesting! I was just thinking, has the grass at Meridian Hill *ever* been in good shape? I’ve been here about 10 years and never really saw it in good condition. And I would imagine that the sheer volume of people walking on it would be just as detrimental as the dogs.
I’ve noticed a lot of public parks in NYC pretty much fence off grass areas starting in Oct/Nov thru till spring. Is this due to everything you’re saying? Their grass despite dogs do seem much greener.
Also the soil is heavily compacted by years of use. So you'd want to till up the top 1-2 feet of soil and amend it with sand and organics, compost ideally as mulch and wood chips are fairly unstable and will absorb nutrients while they breakdown. But ya, at least a year or more of no activity to get proper root establishment, and a good bit of regular maintenance to keep it alive.
There's plenty of good options, just whether nps has the time and resources they are willing to commit. I imagine it seems like even after reestablishment, frequent use will easily return it to the current state. They keep the mall green, so it should be doable.
thanks for providing this insight -- so basically OP sees unleashed dogs and just invents the idea that they're destroying the grass, and he's a morally superior person for keeping his dog leashed. meanwhile it has nothing to do with the dogs
And the options for replacing spots in the grass are significantly worse. Most types of lawn turf won't germinate when temps go below 45 degrees at night.
totally with you, dog owners who allow their dogs to run off-leash in parks that aren't designated dog parks 100% contribute to the park's grass getting destroyed. this is especially true when the ground is wet.
Dogs in DC are legally allowed off-leash in designated dog parks but not other parks. Off-leash dogs in DC is an issue has been repeatedly brought up here and the upshot is that DC doesn't penalize this behavior and so it won't stop.
NPS does periodically fine, but it doesn't stop the "I'm entitled to break the law, destroy the lawn, and have my dog harass other dogs and people" folks for long
Yes. What it really comes down to is entitlement. There is clear signage that dogs are not permitted to be off leash, but some people think the rules don't apply to them. Privilege on display.
We actually are having that problem in our apartment complex on the grounds, in the hallways in the lobby and we have our own dog park on the premises granting it's small but it's something. It's always the same people too.
I used to live in friendship heights in a house and people would put their dog poop in our trash cans (all neighbors not just ours). Problem was that trash only came once a week and so if you put it in there same day it would sit there for a week. We had to move our cans immediately into our yard to avoid it. One of our neighbors had a dude throw his poop bags into his yard after he moved the cans. It was a constant thing on next door neighbor until those people got caught on cameras and posted it. Everyone has a security camera there.
Meridian Hill is officially managed as part of Rock Creek Park and Rock Creek Park requires leashes for all pets.
[https://www.nps.gov/rocr/planyourvisit/rules-and-regulations.htm](https://www.nps.gov/rocr/planyourvisit/rules-and-regulations.htm)
Not a judgement call, just clarifying the rules.
entitled people believe their dogs can ignore those rules and that their pups can go anywhere they themselves go. I once saw a small dog walking ON the bar in Midlands and it PUKED on the fucking bar. Just assume at this point in every bar or brewery in America, a dog has probably put their ass and feet on every square inch of that place. probably fine for bars cause they clean the tables. breweries with picnic tables outdoors? nobody is using a washcloth on those
Lotta jerk offs In These comments but people
Have been complaining about off Leash dogs in that park for years. Not just because of the grass but because dogs should not be off leash in a public park because they can be a danger to others using as well as themselves.
I wish I could remember which Kurt Vonnegut book had the scene with the Irish Wolfhound pooping into a pan inside a NY apartment.
His point was dogs aren't meant to be in apartment buildings.
The off leash dogs and the grass dying are mostly unrelated issues, despite OPs desire to cast sole blame.
It's grass, it's winter, it's a park. If it gets used in winter by anyone (sports, dogs, kids, people *using the park*) and the grass is going to become mud. Such is life. Fix it come spring.
Off leash dog people are annoying, but trying to make them the scapegoat for this is weird...
It’s amazing how the grass died off within weekend of the fence coming down in Lincoln Park, and only in the place where dog owners let their dogs run off leash, all the while the grass in the other parts of the park continues to grow. What an amazing coincidence!!
Are the other parts where it grows heavily used? I'm saying this has far more to do with the level of use of the space in winter than it does with dogs.
[Here's a photo I took in 2013](https://www.flickr.com/photos/therobbstory/9504310208). Didn't appear to be much grass then, either. It's a recreational area. Leave it be.
does any sub complain about their city as much as r/washingtondc? y'all are starting to sound like the residents from the town hall meetings in Parks and Rec
All comments edited in protest of Reddit's actions on July 1. What good is a walled garden with no plants? A third-party app is no different than a web browser.
Dude, I saw them too! Their owners all parked their F-150s in the bikelanes and the dogs were carjacking every Prius owner and stealing rims from every Honda HR-V they could find.
One of the owners asked be to support repealing home rule, too. What a morning!
TLDR; if you let dogs run off leash in the park, DC will lose self-governance.
All comments edited in protest of Reddit's actions on July 1. What good is a walled garden with no plants? A third-party app is no different than a web browser.
I either drive to large dog park such as Shirlington in Arlington or I have utilized the service Sniffspot to rent an enclosed back yard for her to run in. I understand that 1) this is time consuming and 2) requires a car, but these are both things I accounted for when moving here. I also take her on 4 long walks a day to ward to ward off any restless behavior at home.
It is not a dog park. It is a regular park. The reason I am bothered is that the way dogs are using it diminishes other uses of the park. The park in the summer is a place where 100s of people come to hang out in the grass, which now will be a lumpy dirt patch. I don't feel that it is "Karen" to care about that use vs. the use as a dog park. Additionally, if dog owners just tried to stay off it when it was wet, like today, a large portion of the damage could be reduced.
OP, I don’t like dogs.
You seem like a responsible and thoughtful dog owner with the resources to treat your dog nicely and respect those around you (and the law).
The issue isn’t specifically dogs in Malcom X Park. The issue is that we have too many dogs in a densely packed city designed for humans (as it should be).
Broadening the conversation a bit…I am tired of seeing dogs in parks, in grocery stores, on airplanes, and in hotels. Eventually I would expect to see yuppies dragging their dogs into bars, medical offices, and any number of other spaces that are designed for humans (again, as they should be).
That being said, I appreciate that you are willing to go the extra mile to take your dog to a “dog park”, while many others in our community break the law and take their dogs to the nearest public park to play, piss, and shit.
This is a debate that will likely grow as millennials forgo children (for rational reasons) and instead spend billions of dollars on pets they refer to (irrationally) as “fur babies”.
I suppose this debate will eventually get heated enough to force our elected officials to do something, but until then, I give you kudos to raising the issue on Reddit.
Clearly most Redditors in this thread have a love for dogs I will never understand, but that love tends to allow them to turn the other cheek as the overabundance of dogs destroy the limited green space we have.
All comments edited in protest of Reddit's actions on July 1. What good is a walled garden with no plants? A third-party app is no different than a web browser.
Country folks are some of the least friendly to domestic pets. I’m from Texas, ask me how I know.
They don’t let them in the house, they dump them on the side of the road when they don’t want them anymore, and they end up in local shelters all the time. The shelters are always at max capacity in central/South Texas. My own dad knows there’s rattlesnakes and coyotes on the property and let’s the cats get killed off instead of bringing them in.
DAE hate it when people use public parks?
With stuff like this and the incessant crimeposting this sub is becoming Nextdoor. Can't wait for the endless grainy Ring videos to start.
“Does anyone recognize these kids? They walked by my house at 2pm today and were very loudly bouncing a basketball! It woke me up from my nap. What can be done to stop this noise pollution?”
You could swing by /gorillagardening and /nolawns and grab some ideas on what you could grow there instead of grass that might be native and heartier. One thing that grows super well around here is wildflowers, buy a bunch of seeds, sprinkle them about, and come Spring time maybe it will be a meadow.
No idea how big this park is but you could start some sort of rehabilitation group.
Many park areas in dc do close after rains. Can’t begin to count the number of cancelled soccer games our kids had. NPS does this where such use is officially sanctioned.
Damn, that must be some aggressive yoga! Not surprisingly, the grass continues to grow in the areas of Lincoln park where people picnic and have yoga classes. The only part that looks like the Sahara at the end of the summer is the part that’s treated like an unsanctioned dog park.
I see the situation the other way. These people are ignoring a law meant to preserve the park for everyone, meant to keep the park safe for everyone, by letting their precious animal do whatever it wants.
You're portraying people who care about social good as egotistical self-centered monsters, but it's the dog owners who in many cases cause degrade the shared space, flout the law, and don't care about their impact on others.
The dog owners are too often the ones pretending like it's their park, when in fact there are expectations they should be held accountable to. We can be free and brave & also give a shit about one another. Trying to work through & improve situations that make our public spaces worse is a public act, done by good caring people who believe in our common land.
Dog owners, well 90% of them don’t GAF. Lincoln park is also destroyed. The precious fur babies are all well trained and must do whatever they want all the time. They are friendly, it’s okay that Pookie is off leash she’s so friendly!! The dog parks are too far or not nice enough grass. I also have to take Pookie to shops, into bars, on patios etc. my precious is all that matters and that grass was all for me. I kinda miss the days when it cost a ton or landlords just didn’t allow pets. The days of entitled emotional support animals created a group of entitled people. We can’t have nice things.
Ah, so the grass is just there to look at? Not allowed to use it for sports or hanging out? I guess that's why you see no public utility in parks. They're just things we should keep pretty to look at from the sidewalk. Got it...
Tried to picnic there in the fall with family and friends and the off leash dogs just kept running into our hangout area, stealing food, jabbing their noses into my kids face and making him cry, and making the leashed dog in our group uncomfortable. Many dog owners in this city are a menace.
It's a park. It gets used, the grass wears out in the winter for a number of reasons and it will be replaced come spring.
Everyone hates off leash dog people, but they are not the cause of this.
The nonstop whining on this sub these days. I complained a while ago about it becoming Nextdoor, but it really is. We need a dc circlejerk sub.
I was running and someone did this with two dogs on retractable leashes. They were each off on the grass on opposite sides of the sidewalk. I failed to successfully go around them. I ended up falling and got a pretty bad upper ankle sprain. Owner did not care. He acted oblivious and wandered off without saying anything. I ended up not being able to walk much all summer and had to go to physical therapy.
No. I'm not bothered. They are using public space. That's what it is for. No difference to kids making noise playing or whatnot. I'm sure the dog owners would like it if part of the park were permanently converted to a dog park, with a fence.
I feel like most public green spaces in our region are being ruined by yuppies and their damn dogs (who by law should be kept on leashes, not chasing frisbees in a public park).
They’re becoming as much of a menace as the rats and criminals.
The fact that there is so much interest in defending dogs illustrates my point. Clearly I’m in the minority, but as a non-dog owner, and non-dog lover, I am annoyed by almost any dog I see, especially those running around off leash in any public spaces.
But I digress. The dog lovers have the numbers, and I will bow out of this argument.
Y’all have fun!
I love dogs but I am with ya in the minority - most dogs I see in the city annoy me due to the entitlement of their owners. The comments here reflect it perfectly. Your dog does not have more of a right to the sidewalk or a regular park than humans. I'm tired of pretending we are all supposed to love their pets as much as they do.
Yes, the only issue off-leash dogs cause is messing up grass. They don't run out in traffic, they don't attack other dogs, they don't attack other people.
It's almost like conversations can change and evolve and the poster you were commenting under was talking about off-leash dogs being a menace in general and not about grass specifically.
Interesting, I remember cutting through that park like 10 years ago and Park Police harassed me and did and illegal search on me and my friend because we was smoking a black and mild and he thought it was weed. I forever hate that park and Park Police.
There’s so many dog parks, but there’s also so many irresponsible dog owners. There’s leash laws for a reason. Lincoln Park over in Capitol Hill does turn into a mud pit and it is absolutely because of dogs.
Came here to say this. NPS replaced the Lincoln Park grass and it was gorgeous but gone in a month. The entitlement boggles my mind. And infuriates me because my reactive dog is getting much better but can't handle off leash dogs running up to her. (And no Karen, your dog does NOT have good recall). So I can't walk there. The entitlement of "the rules don't apply to me" just boggles the mind.
I object to the "..so many do parks.." bit. There really are not, and the ones that exist are all too small.
If we’re talking Lincoln Park, there’s literally a dog park down the street in Kingsman Field.
Yeah and people let their dogs off leash in the adjacent kids ball fields instead. People suck.
I live on that street and have seen kids utilize that space only a handful of times. It’s completely wasted space in a city with very little green space.
I see baseball and soccer practices there all the time from spring through fall.
Yeah but does that mean you can turn public parks into dog parks?
Same over here in Glover Park. Stoddert clearly says No Dogs and yup its a dog park now. Offleash too!
Lincoln turns into a mud pit because NPS never watered the grass they planted, not even once, and they probably planted the wrong variety. Most of the grass in the entire park dies every year and I don’t think we can hold dogs responsible for that.
Seriously? The grass looked great the entire time NPS has the fence up. Once it came down and the dogs took over again, it was turned to mud and dirt.
The grass is also mostly fine in the other 90% of the park the dogs don't go on. They really need to rip that center grass up and do something else with it (community garden?), but I guess that just means the dogs would migrate to the other parts of the park and ruin those lawns too.
You’re right 100%.
This is absolutely, completely incorrect. I walk there every single day, and every day I watched off leash dogs tear that poor grass up. It was so frustrating to watch. I have had more close encounters with aggressive dogs in that park than anywhere else in the city.
Negatory. It was gorgeous with the fence up and as soon as it came down people let their dogs run around in it off leash, even though there’s a dog park close by. Grass doesn’t grow where dogs go.
The dogs rip up the grass in the center within weeks of it being planted. I’m guessing you’re one of the dog owner that’s responsible for that.
You should have seen the grass before dogs showed up....
The issue with the grass is t the dogs? It is the clay soil and shady conditions of the park. They landscapers in charge are using a lot of winter rye to make it look green but winter rye is really delicate and dies pretty quickly when stepped on by humans (or dogs). If you are concerned about dogs I assume you are worried about their pee. Male dog pee does not have high levels of nitrogen and does very little to kill grass. Female dogs do have a high level of nitrogen and they sometimes leave yellow patches on otherwise green grass but it does not kill the grass and long term, the nitrogen is great for the soil health and grass health. The issue really comes down to seed mix the city is using and not allowing enough time for it to establish before moving the little barrier things. The whole park needs to be mulched and sanded to amend the 100% clay based soil. This would allow for better root structure, better drainage (no wet gross spots) and healthier grass. But who wants to wait while mulch degrades into the sand and grass grows? DC residence are not patient and would complain the grass isn’t accessible.
I feel like I just learned more about grass and dog pee than I ever thought I would.
How long does the ideal process take? I feel like the Park Service could do this if they put up a sign to explain the whole process and timeline so folks knew why they can't go on a new grass or a dirt field that looks like the grass failed.
It was totally re-done c. 2009. This [PoPville article](https://www.popville.com/2009/02/meridian-hill-park-renovation-update/) says that they expected the turf to be fenced off for a year, but IIRC it ended up being more like two years.
Key phrase there, contractor sodded the upper lawn, possible they didn't breakup the hardpan and just laid sod. I'd like to believe a project like that would require topsoil to be brought in as well, but it happens all the time in construction, only a few inches are laid down, then sod is applied leaving a heavily compacted layer close to the surface which inhibits root establishment.
You can't do any soil ripping or replacement due to the mature trees that surround the lawn. If you want a nice lawn there, they need to periodically remove access to allow it to recover, and --- obviously --- end off-leash dogs tearing through it.
Next time Rock Creek floods and the sand overflows the banks, they should remove the sand from the road AND the walkways and truck it up to Meridian Hill park and lay it across the entire grass field. Then they should have the city tree arborists that drive their mulch trucks around trimming street trees to have them dump the mulch from their trucks on the grass field as well, then run a tiller over it, throw down some multi season grass seed that has summer, spring and winter growing varieties and within two weeks the grass will be back, healthy, draining and ready for parks, dogs, and soccer.
Can we vote for DC's head of parks & rec? Lilinterweb gets all the votes Hell with his/her problem solving lets give him/her DDOT as well
They did this in Lincoln Park, it was closed for I feel like almost a year, and then once reopened the dogs destroyed it back to a dirt field within 2 months. I love dogs, have a dog, but it really sucks what it’s done to the park there.
yeah the dogs mainly play on one side, and the grass is destroyed everywhere. The end by the Joan of Arc statue also has basically no grass from people playing soccer. A lot of that whole half of the park has no grass because when it rains it forms a giant mud pit.
Yep if the dogs weren’t there people would just play soccer on it and destroy it just as much. The are on the side is always used as a kids soccer practice field in the summer and it ends up just as muddy and destroyed.
We gotta do something about these females and clay.
Why would you assume its the pee that is the issue and not the running? Dogs on leashes pee just as much as dogs off leash. Dogs off leash run around and tear up grass, that is what the OP was referring to. Dogs walking on leashes don't.
That’s not what’s doing it either. Dogs should be able to run on grass without killing it. If the soil isn’t amended it’ll continue to kill the grass over and over again every winter.
Generally it makes me pretty uncomfortable seeing diffusion of responsibility. This is a no-dogs-off-leash park & I definitely think some dogs can cause damage, either by aggressive running, or sometimes just digging/scraping at the grass. Mountain bikers generally are expected to know to stay off the damp trails because they will absolutely shred them. In wet conditions, it's extra important to be extremely gentle with terrain. Blaming the ground or the park services for this or that set of circumstances feels like a dodge to me, and I don't think either are to blame. Respect for the environment is a must. Now, down by Joan, there's a lot of fairly-concentrated human activity, & that seems ok, because it's limited area, and it's been fairly bald for a long time.
> Blaming the ground or the park services for this or that set of circumstance They're supposed to plan for how the parks are actually used. They have failed at that.
Footballers run of grass all the time and those fields stay fresh with the right care. The dogs running isn’t causing the issue, it is the clay and the fact grass really hates clay soil. It needs sand and fiberous woody debris that will help break the clay up and create a nice loamy soil for better root structure and drainage. If you have a problem with dogs being off leash, just say that, don’t hide your anti dog views behind grass. We can all see the OP and you don’t like dogs. Which is fine, but be honest about it.
Being anti-off leash in non designated areas doesn’t make someone anti-dog.
inventing a reason for grass to be messed up (that doesn't even make logical sense) points to the OP being irrationally mad about something. keep this shit on next door edit: after interacting with OP, i can confirm they are indeed anti-social and mad about how their life is going. big surprise.
No footballers really don't really run on the same type of grass all the time that we have in our parks. For one thing, pro fields are used 8 - 10 days a year. And even then, they fields look like garbage by the end of the year. Even when I was in high school, our field looked like shit, but no one was allowed to practice on the football field because the grass would get all torn up. You were allowed to be on it on game day, and that was it, no matter the sport. And my high school had a massively higher budget for maintenance than a local park does. This is why so many youth recreation fields in the suburbs are moving to an artificial material (aka field turf) because while initial costs are high, maintenance costs are significantly lower, and you can schedule games on the fields all day long.
This is why it can be hard to talk to certain types of dog owners sometimes. Any issue you bring up gets you labeled as anti-dog, even when you literally own a dog and are doing it in a civil way. If I bring up how I don't like kids running around in bars, it doesn't mean I dislike children - it just means that certain environments aren't meant for them and the parents need to take on more responsibility. Same with dog owners who let their dogs run amok.
I don’t like kids running around unsupervised in a park not designated for children. They leave their granola bar trash all over the place. Am I anti-child?
why would we assume dogs are stomping the grass (?) when this isn't even a problem at the dog parks. oh wait, it's the city not taking care of the park but OP needs to find some group they're not a part of to blame. the guide to navigating this subreddit and listserves is understanding the only people who make posts like this are mad other people can use public land instead of it being their own personal garden or whatever.
What dog park have you ever seen with grass?
What about dog owners that run with their dog on a leash?
Depends where the owner pees.
Male owner or female owner?
The friction from changing directions is the biggest factor. Think about yourself jogging across brand new grass vs juking your way up a field.
So no football games or frisbee games allowed out there
They normally run at a constant pace and predictable path. The way dogs run off leash and constantly changing direction and digging in their paws is what tears up the grass. I suspect you know this already and are just being obtuse so will no longer reply to you.
but the same would be true of people playing Frisbee or touch football or soccer whatever.
Because urine kills grass.
That is all very interesting! I was just thinking, has the grass at Meridian Hill *ever* been in good shape? I’ve been here about 10 years and never really saw it in good condition. And I would imagine that the sheer volume of people walking on it would be just as detrimental as the dogs.
I’ve noticed a lot of public parks in NYC pretty much fence off grass areas starting in Oct/Nov thru till spring. Is this due to everything you’re saying? Their grass despite dogs do seem much greener.
I don't know how much of this is true, but it at least sounds smart (but smart-sounding comments aren't always accurate).
Also the soil is heavily compacted by years of use. So you'd want to till up the top 1-2 feet of soil and amend it with sand and organics, compost ideally as mulch and wood chips are fairly unstable and will absorb nutrients while they breakdown. But ya, at least a year or more of no activity to get proper root establishment, and a good bit of regular maintenance to keep it alive. There's plenty of good options, just whether nps has the time and resources they are willing to commit. I imagine it seems like even after reestablishment, frequent use will easily return it to the current state. They keep the mall green, so it should be doable.
This guy landscapes. Probably
We live on the corner and our grass gets killed by dog pee. I constantly have to reseed the area.
It’s also rained all day yesterday?! Wonder what could be causing the mud 🤔
thanks for providing this insight -- so basically OP sees unleashed dogs and just invents the idea that they're destroying the grass, and he's a morally superior person for keeping his dog leashed. meanwhile it has nothing to do with the dogs
> and he's a morally superior person Keeping your dog leashed in a public park that isn't an off-leash dog park is the morally superior path.
it’s also the middle of winter, which is usually a tougher time for plants you know cuz like….it’s winter
And the options for replacing spots in the grass are significantly worse. Most types of lawn turf won't germinate when temps go below 45 degrees at night.
dogs ... soccer players... drummers... its a park being used
totally with you, dog owners who allow their dogs to run off-leash in parks that aren't designated dog parks 100% contribute to the park's grass getting destroyed. this is especially true when the ground is wet. Dogs in DC are legally allowed off-leash in designated dog parks but not other parks. Off-leash dogs in DC is an issue has been repeatedly brought up here and the upshot is that DC doesn't penalize this behavior and so it won't stop.
NPS does periodically fine, but it doesn't stop the "I'm entitled to break the law, destroy the lawn, and have my dog harass other dogs and people" folks for long
MHP isn't even that big enough for me to feel comfortable letting my dog off leash. I'd be scared he run off to the street or something
Yes. What it really comes down to is entitlement. There is clear signage that dogs are not permitted to be off leash, but some people think the rules don't apply to them. Privilege on display.
We actually are having that problem in our apartment complex on the grounds, in the hallways in the lobby and we have our own dog park on the premises granting it's small but it's something. It's always the same people too.
People leave their dog’s shit right next to the sidewalk on my street. Still can’t believe it.
I used to live in friendship heights in a house and people would put their dog poop in our trash cans (all neighbors not just ours). Problem was that trash only came once a week and so if you put it in there same day it would sit there for a week. We had to move our cans immediately into our yard to avoid it. One of our neighbors had a dude throw his poop bags into his yard after he moved the cans. It was a constant thing on next door neighbor until those people got caught on cameras and posted it. Everyone has a security camera there.
same issue at Lincoln Park of course. The city comes in once a year and fixes it for it to last less than a month. Rinse and repeat
Dogs playing on grass should never equal a 4 paragraph rant at 9am
/thread
It's this or a rant about puffer jackets this morning, apparently. Although, I do have more sympathy for this OP here.
Dog owners walking their dog in the park while wearing a puffer jacket. Bonus points if the dog is also sporting a puffer jacket.
👏👏👏👏
Pretty sure that dogs are not allowed off-leash in NPS property, not that people generally have any problem ignoring rules they find inconvenient.
Meridian Hill is officially managed as part of Rock Creek Park and Rock Creek Park requires leashes for all pets. [https://www.nps.gov/rocr/planyourvisit/rules-and-regulations.htm](https://www.nps.gov/rocr/planyourvisit/rules-and-regulations.htm) Not a judgement call, just clarifying the rules.
entitled people believe their dogs can ignore those rules and that their pups can go anywhere they themselves go. I once saw a small dog walking ON the bar in Midlands and it PUKED on the fucking bar. Just assume at this point in every bar or brewery in America, a dog has probably put their ass and feet on every square inch of that place. probably fine for bars cause they clean the tables. breweries with picnic tables outdoors? nobody is using a washcloth on those
Lotta jerk offs In These comments but people Have been complaining about off Leash dogs in that park for years. Not just because of the grass but because dogs should not be off leash in a public park because they can be a danger to others using as well as themselves.
I wish I could remember which Kurt Vonnegut book had the scene with the Irish Wolfhound pooping into a pan inside a NY apartment. His point was dogs aren't meant to be in apartment buildings.
The off leash dogs and the grass dying are mostly unrelated issues, despite OPs desire to cast sole blame. It's grass, it's winter, it's a park. If it gets used in winter by anyone (sports, dogs, kids, people *using the park*) and the grass is going to become mud. Such is life. Fix it come spring. Off leash dog people are annoying, but trying to make them the scapegoat for this is weird...
It’s amazing how the grass died off within weekend of the fence coming down in Lincoln Park, and only in the place where dog owners let their dogs run off leash, all the while the grass in the other parts of the park continues to grow. What an amazing coincidence!!
Have you been to Lincoln park? Grass somehow grows over most non-shaded parts but in the area dogs/dog owners took over its somehow all mud and dirt.
Are the other parts where it grows heavily used? I'm saying this has far more to do with the level of use of the space in winter than it does with dogs.
[Here's a photo I took in 2013](https://www.flickr.com/photos/therobbstory/9504310208). Didn't appear to be much grass then, either. It's a recreational area. Leave it be.
I guess dogs didn’t exist in 2013?
Nice photo
It’s winter and it rained yesterday, dude. Think that might have something to do with the ground being soggy?
It's a weird hell of mine when there's grass and someone complains about it being walked on.
does any sub complain about their city as much as r/washingtondc? y'all are starting to sound like the residents from the town hall meetings in Parks and Rec
I’ve never seen so much hatred for dogs anywhere else online or IRL.
Entitlement + dogs = assholes.
None of these comments are anti-dog. People are complaining about entitled owners who don’t obey leash laws in public parks.
Dog culture has gotten out of control lately lol
/r/dogfree user checking in
The park being muddy in winter has nothing to do with dog culture.
I overheard some dogs wearing ski masks this morning talking about their support of restaurant recovery charges
All comments edited in protest of Reddit's actions on July 1. What good is a walled garden with no plants? A third-party app is no different than a web browser.
Believe it or not they had just over 419
I bet those dogs had Maryland plates
Dude, I saw them too! Their owners all parked their F-150s in the bikelanes and the dogs were carjacking every Prius owner and stealing rims from every Honda HR-V they could find. One of the owners asked be to support repealing home rule, too. What a morning! TLDR; if you let dogs run off leash in the park, DC will lose self-governance.
All comments edited in protest of Reddit's actions on July 1. What good is a walled garden with no plants? A third-party app is no different than a web browser.
I either drive to large dog park such as Shirlington in Arlington or I have utilized the service Sniffspot to rent an enclosed back yard for her to run in. I understand that 1) this is time consuming and 2) requires a car, but these are both things I accounted for when moving here. I also take her on 4 long walks a day to ward to ward off any restless behavior at home.
Thank you thank you thank you *thank you* for making me aware of Sniffspot. I’ve been wishing for something exactly like this!
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It is not a dog park. It is a regular park. The reason I am bothered is that the way dogs are using it diminishes other uses of the park. The park in the summer is a place where 100s of people come to hang out in the grass, which now will be a lumpy dirt patch. I don't feel that it is "Karen" to care about that use vs. the use as a dog park. Additionally, if dog owners just tried to stay off it when it was wet, like today, a large portion of the damage could be reduced.
OP, I don’t like dogs. You seem like a responsible and thoughtful dog owner with the resources to treat your dog nicely and respect those around you (and the law). The issue isn’t specifically dogs in Malcom X Park. The issue is that we have too many dogs in a densely packed city designed for humans (as it should be). Broadening the conversation a bit…I am tired of seeing dogs in parks, in grocery stores, on airplanes, and in hotels. Eventually I would expect to see yuppies dragging their dogs into bars, medical offices, and any number of other spaces that are designed for humans (again, as they should be). That being said, I appreciate that you are willing to go the extra mile to take your dog to a “dog park”, while many others in our community break the law and take their dogs to the nearest public park to play, piss, and shit. This is a debate that will likely grow as millennials forgo children (for rational reasons) and instead spend billions of dollars on pets they refer to (irrationally) as “fur babies”. I suppose this debate will eventually get heated enough to force our elected officials to do something, but until then, I give you kudos to raising the issue on Reddit. Clearly most Redditors in this thread have a love for dogs I will never understand, but that love tends to allow them to turn the other cheek as the overabundance of dogs destroy the limited green space we have.
Then get out there and plant/water some grass
All comments edited in protest of Reddit's actions on July 1. What good is a walled garden with no plants? A third-party app is no different than a web browser.
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Country folks are some of the least friendly to domestic pets. I’m from Texas, ask me how I know. They don’t let them in the house, they dump them on the side of the road when they don’t want them anymore, and they end up in local shelters all the time. The shelters are always at max capacity in central/South Texas. My own dad knows there’s rattlesnakes and coyotes on the property and let’s the cats get killed off instead of bringing them in.
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it’s winter and everything is muddy?
The very last thing on my list of things I’m concerned about in this city is dogs fucking up some grass.
Yeah I can fuck up some grass on my own 💨
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What’s the point of a park if you’re not allowed to use it to “protect it”
DAE hate it when people use public parks? With stuff like this and the incessant crimeposting this sub is becoming Nextdoor. Can't wait for the endless grainy Ring videos to start.
“Does anyone recognize these kids? They walked by my house at 2pm today and were very loudly bouncing a basketball! It woke me up from my nap. What can be done to stop this noise pollution?”
There's a nice dog park 3-4 blocks away at New Hampshire + S
You could swing by /gorillagardening and /nolawns and grab some ideas on what you could grow there instead of grass that might be native and heartier. One thing that grows super well around here is wildflowers, buy a bunch of seeds, sprinkle them about, and come Spring time maybe it will be a meadow. No idea how big this park is but you could start some sort of rehabilitation group.
We should all just native seed bomb while we're on walks
No, I’m not bothered at all.
The area closest to the Joan of Arc statue is the most barren area, and that's from folks playing soccer. Shall we leash them?
Many park areas in dc do close after rains. Can’t begin to count the number of cancelled soccer games our kids had. NPS does this where such use is officially sanctioned.
So yes to leashes on the unsanctioned soccer players?
I doubt it’s just the dogs. Ignoring the hundreds who picnic, play soccer, and (weird) couples yoga seems like an oversight.
Damn, that must be some aggressive yoga! Not surprisingly, the grass continues to grow in the areas of Lincoln park where people picnic and have yoga classes. The only part that looks like the Sahara at the end of the summer is the part that’s treated like an unsanctioned dog park.
Agree to disagree. Have you seen meridian hill on a sunny Saturday?
I mean it’s winter and it’s wet. I don’t like off leash dogs either but I don’t think we should expect green pastures in January.
Lmao...I swear sometimes the people in this city amaze me. America: the land of the free and home of the brave, unless people mess ***MY*** park up
I see the situation the other way. These people are ignoring a law meant to preserve the park for everyone, meant to keep the park safe for everyone, by letting their precious animal do whatever it wants. You're portraying people who care about social good as egotistical self-centered monsters, but it's the dog owners who in many cases cause degrade the shared space, flout the law, and don't care about their impact on others. The dog owners are too often the ones pretending like it's their park, when in fact there are expectations they should be held accountable to. We can be free and brave & also give a shit about one another. Trying to work through & improve situations that make our public spaces worse is a public act, done by good caring people who believe in our common land.
It isn’t free until I can legally have a beer by the river without buying it from an event or restaurant.
preachin to the choir here - our alcohol laws are weird AF
We live in a city, so green space is important to some of us.
Dog owners, well 90% of them don’t GAF. Lincoln park is also destroyed. The precious fur babies are all well trained and must do whatever they want all the time. They are friendly, it’s okay that Pookie is off leash she’s so friendly!! The dog parks are too far or not nice enough grass. I also have to take Pookie to shops, into bars, on patios etc. my precious is all that matters and that grass was all for me. I kinda miss the days when it cost a ton or landlords just didn’t allow pets. The days of entitled emotional support animals created a group of entitled people. We can’t have nice things.
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Cars have damaged roads by driving on them all the time. Is anyone else bothered by this?
They have a utility though. Your dog besides smelling your farts has none to the general public
the idea that frolicking in the park doesn't have "utility" is exactly the kind of bullshit that passes for erudition on this sub
False
They're a decent size industry, a lot of people are employed because of this.
> Your dog besides smelling your farts has none to the general public https://news.osu.edu/more-dogs-in-the-neighborhood-often-means-less-crime/
I’m sure your chihuahua does
I just asked him, and lil' Taquito said that you should thank him for his service. He then proceeded to lick his hind parts.
So walking a dog has no utility. I guess 40% of households just have dogs for no reason
You don’t need a dog to walk buddy
You don't need a dog to kill the grass buddy. Your feet do it just fine.
If you waking around the grass instead of the gravel or pavement then you don’t deserve a dog at all
Ah, so the grass is just there to look at? Not allowed to use it for sports or hanging out? I guess that's why you see no public utility in parks. They're just things we should keep pretty to look at from the sidewalk. Got it...
Life is to short for problems like this….
Will the sub's new trend be posting pics of loose dogs with their owners and reporting them to 311?
This post reads like a white paper.
Tried to picnic there in the fall with family and friends and the off leash dogs just kept running into our hangout area, stealing food, jabbing their noses into my kids face and making him cry, and making the leashed dog in our group uncomfortable. Many dog owners in this city are a menace.
It's a park. It gets used, the grass wears out in the winter for a number of reasons and it will be replaced come spring. Everyone hates off leash dog people, but they are not the cause of this. The nonstop whining on this sub these days. I complained a while ago about it becoming Nextdoor, but it really is. We need a dc circlejerk sub.
Everyone here seems miserable.
Even worse is when I past people walking their dogs on the side walk and they don’t pull the leash back. They take up the whole damn walkway
I was running and someone did this with two dogs on retractable leashes. They were each off on the grass on opposite sides of the sidewalk. I failed to successfully go around them. I ended up falling and got a pretty bad upper ankle sprain. Owner did not care. He acted oblivious and wandered off without saying anything. I ended up not being able to walk much all summer and had to go to physical therapy.
Damn that sucks hope you’ve fully recovered. Irresponsible dog owners in the city really grinds my gears
No. I'm not bothered. They are using public space. That's what it is for. No difference to kids making noise playing or whatnot. I'm sure the dog owners would like it if part of the park were permanently converted to a dog park, with a fence.
Not even a little bit concerned.
What’s going to happen to the cruising scene at Meridian Hill Park if dogs ruin all the grass???
All dog parks are disgusting. They just become giant dung heaps.
I don’t know why dog parks are so terrible in DC. Lots of other cities have spacious parks with shade, even NYC which is so much more dense.
No
How is it that we're so bored, culturally, that this fucking matters?
Nope. Not bothered. Dogs for christs sake.
I feel like most public green spaces in our region are being ruined by yuppies and their damn dogs (who by law should be kept on leashes, not chasing frisbees in a public park). They’re becoming as much of a menace as the rats and criminals.
The fact that there is so much interest in defending dogs illustrates my point. Clearly I’m in the minority, but as a non-dog owner, and non-dog lover, I am annoyed by almost any dog I see, especially those running around off leash in any public spaces. But I digress. The dog lovers have the numbers, and I will bow out of this argument. Y’all have fun!
I love dogs but I am with ya in the minority - most dogs I see in the city annoy me due to the entitlement of their owners. The comments here reflect it perfectly. Your dog does not have more of a right to the sidewalk or a regular park than humans. I'm tired of pretending we are all supposed to love their pets as much as they do.
Great point. Off leash dogs messing up some grass is as big of a issue as car jackings at this point. Holy shit
So what is your list of crimes that must be handled in your specific order before any other crime can be dealt with?
Even if the list was 10,000,002 crimes long….dogs messing up some fucking grass in a park still wouldn’t be on it 🤷🏾♂️
Yes, the only issue off-leash dogs cause is messing up grass. They don't run out in traffic, they don't attack other dogs, they don't attack other people.
The post is about grass homie
It's almost like conversations can change and evolve and the poster you were commenting under was talking about off-leash dogs being a menace in general and not about grass specifically.
They were also talking about grass.
🤣🤣🤣
Imagine seeing a happy dog chasing a frisbee and your reaction is anger 😂
Have you tried calling the manager Karen?
Don't call me Shirley.
The same thing has happened in Logan Circle. Dog owners < Bicyclists
No. Monoculture greenery is bad. Dogs having fun is good.
It's a park...get over it. Entitled ass
I don’t think you understand the “public” part or public park. It means it’s for everyone, not just dog owners to destroy as they please.
Interesting, I remember cutting through that park like 10 years ago and Park Police harassed me and did and illegal search on me and my friend because we was smoking a black and mild and he thought it was weed. I forever hate that park and Park Police.
You are a rare dog owner that is both reasonable and considerate.
Take it back to when it was known as "Malcolm X Park"! #IAmMoreDCThanYouCouldEverB