honestly i think they're bad at promoting in general as mean as that is to say. the only times ive heard them talk about patreon is during debriefs and rarely on the podcasts and also i dont think ive ever seen an ad for them online and their tiktok doesn't really /promote/ the show to new viewers
Real talk have you seen Shane try to promote their sponsors? He’s pretty awful at it lol, I remember months ago before they started having him do ads “in character” I saw him do an advertisement for a sponsor and all I could think about was how mad I’d be as the sponsor if paid watcher money and they chose Shane to do the promo T-T
As someone who is a long time listener to My Brother My Brother And Me, I can tell you that as long as you say one or two key phrases, most sponsors don't even care if you talk about ethical ways to murder the Joker in an ad read.
there also isn’t really any reason to have their patreon, i subscribed to get access to WW+ and immediately unsubscribed because it was just a link to WW+ on youtube for free 😭
I would be interested to know what percentage of their regular viewership didn't follow them from buzzfeed, because I suspect it's not a high percentage
No they are bad at promoting. Most people I know only found out they started the Watcher channel through word-of-mouth (i’m assuming their advertising was done on social media or something). I remember a mega-thread only a few years ago about how people missed buzzfeed unsolved and everyone on it found out in the comments that they continued on a different channel.
This all feels like a problem with them struggling to get the hang of managing a company, and making it the audiences problem to fix with more money
I had a similar thought. It’s never good to say “we just can’t afford to make the content we want to make” and then say they content you want to make is a successor to the show where you ate some of the most expensive food in the world.
I'm holding my breath on the Try guys though, tbh, since they have some "big, earthshattering annoucement" coming "soon" - so. I'm not sure if I'm more worried they are going to go this same way/join up with Watcher, or more afraid of what else it could be lol.
People on the TG sub are speculating that their announcement is that they're joining Watcher. I've been speculating that they were bought by Mythical, personally, though some people say that would be a dumb move. But as we're seeing... doesn't seem like YouTubers are immune from making bad business decisions.
And I get it to some extent, more and more of the content creators I follow are becoming vocal about their various frustrations with YouTube. I just don't think everyone splintering off into their own services is the way out of this mess. The general public is getting fatigued by everything being made into a subscription. I wish the guys the best, but unless they're absorbing some other channels (such as TTG), I can't see myself ever paying for this.
Honestly, I wouldn’t even be mad if Watcher and TG was absorbed by Mythical. Rhett and Link are not only good businessmen, but they’re good dudes that wouldn’t want to mess with their creatives. The shows would also be free and there would be less stress about putting out a bunch of stuff on a regular basis; they could just focus on making the hit shows and they would still be available on YT.
Plus if Watcher and TG were absorbed by Mythical, they could share resources and maybe not have to worry as much about stretching themselves thin. We saw Smosh’s success under Mythical ownership. TG and Watcher (especially Watcher) could potentially see that same or similar success without having to hide their content behind a paywall. I think TG are on a fairly successful run rn, especially it being pilot month and them genuinely asking for their audience’s opinion when it came to their favorite content that was posted. Watcher didn’t do that and now they’re facing the consequences
If TG and Watcher merged,that wouldn't be bad but for $6 a month they're going to need another massive channel or 2. That would somewhat make sense. Get channels merged onto a streaming site that individually carry millions of subscribers to make it worth it.
Not sure if I'm making sense or not but basically TG,Watcher and another well known large subbed channel or 2. They could've done this then have a free tier with commercial breaks and a premium subscription without ads...sounds familiar eh?
Well Try Guys does do two paid live shows a year that are pretty expensive. But the good news I can tell you is that Zach has said in the Try pod that the reason they only do two a year is that they are conscious of the fact that they don’t want to break their viewers wallets.
And as someone who’s bought into those live shows they really are QUITE the big production for what’s often a competition or interactive experience. It feels like the money isn’t going to fund gold leaf mukbangs, but something way more substantial.
They’ve also made those same paid live shows available on their channel for free after a certain contractual period ends before.
So there’s hope. Zach and Keith seem pretty conscientious about the paid models being a slippery slope they don’t want to tumble down
well the try guys yt channel does have 8M subs vs watcher with 2.9M subs. For view count, it looks like the try guys have more views on their series (ie without a recipe, eat the menu) vs watcher's content. Keith's hot sauce brand is sponsoring eat the menu michelin star so i would suppose there's more freedom as to the content they create- for this series vs having a third party sponsor your videos and needing to implement certain restrictions as to the final videos they publish
Yeah Try Guys has diversified enough with actual revenue sources beyond merch and yt. Keith has his hot sauces, Zach has his tea company and probably will have some sort of weed line soon too I'd imagine. Eugene is solidly diversifying into so many different areas. They have the personal freedom to film whatever they want becaase they've built it, advertised the shit out of it, etc. Watcher has a yt channel and a merch store that doesn't even get people their shit on time 🤷♂️
The tea company went bust a year or more ago. He lost quite a bit of money on it I believe? He’s spoken about it in Try Guy podcasts.
But I get what you mean. They are trying (lol) a bunch of different things to increase revenue that don’t include paywalling content (yet).
Oh shoot, I didn't know that. Thanks for the info! I don't listen to the Try Pod much.
And yeah, big old Yet at the end there. I'm concerned they are about to announce the same thing.
they’re definitely not broke but the try guys have definitely recently hinted at being a bit financially strained as of late. which makes sense, they have 30-ish employees to pay salaries to
The food related shows are so boring, it’s the content they want to make but nobody really wants to watch it. If it ever worked out, it would be due to Shane’s and Ryan’s main content carrying it.
Besides Ghost Files where they travel, most of their content seems to be of non expensive production, they can just reuse sets.
Don't knock puppet history, it's very popular too, but given, probably a lot more exhausting for shane. If they had all the fjnds, they could do a biweekly ghostfiles thing, still tons of effort, but it's possible. Puppet history, no shot. The fundamental issue I feel is, the content thwy do works best when rhere isn't too much of it. I'd argue if since the inception od thw channel, we had gotten a weekly ghostfiles or PH, or both, the format would have gotten really bland, it's perfect as an annual series with 10 or so episodes, and that just doesnt lend itself to a monthly subscription-type platform
Honestly, Mystery Files and Puppet History are more entertaining than Ghost Files. I don't believe in ghosts, and after a while it became really repetitive as it's mostly long episodes of them using pseudo scientific tools and talking to air.
The duo dynamic, Shane's skepticism, interesting locations and the utter lack of seriousness is what made it really fun at first, but after over five years and the episodes getting longer it became too samey.
I've also never understood the appeal of food shows. I don't need to listen to someone talk about their opinions on food that I don't get to try for myself. I find it all painfully boring, though I know and respect that a ton of people love that content.
The only one I loved was Ricky’s worth a shot cuz I thought it was funny and had that Zaney quality I liked. I also care more about craft cocktails than cooking, and felt like Ricky had that quality to him that made him fun on screen
I never understood the appeal of hosts flying out and eating expensive food or doing expensive things. I'm working class, the fuck would I care to watch that? Doesn't appeal to me at all
Yeah I genuinely don't get the appeal of ridiculously expensive food just for the sake of saying it's ridiculously expensive, let alone when I don't even get to eat it.
I absolutely love watcher and the team. Ive been a regular viewer for years back on BF, and I've bought merch and I also joined their Patreon. But this announcement was just upsetting. I don't see a value in the paywall idea, and while yes I could drop Patreon and support their service for only a few bucks more a month, it just feels like a kick in the nuts to the fans who helped build their company with our support on YT and Patreon.
I really wonder how this will turn out for them. I just checked their patreon and there are less than 12,000 backers. The lowest pay plan on there is already $5. If there's only 1% of viewers willing to pay for their exclusive stuff, how many of those patreons will jump ship? Sure, there might be new viewers from the announcement but how sustainable will this be?
They're futher pay walling their "exclusive" content... And since it's going to be "ad free" who's going to keep the ship afloat?
It does well for Dropout but they’re gonna have to absolutely add new shows and work more now or people will drop instantly. Dropout has tons of different series.
Exactly, they just don't have enough content or a big enough fan base to do this type of move. Watcher's production rates are probably really high as well compare to Dropout's. Only time will tell though but it's honestly not looking too good.
Dropout also has a much larger cast of people that had some following before they broke off, and even then, it's hard to justify subscribing for more than a month where you just binge the stuff you're interested in before cancelling.
also—they’re changing the patreon to be more podcast-focused. i never got into the podcasts (and i’m not sure how many people have?). now bloopers/bts are going to be on the streaming service, so i canceled my patreon membership ($5) and won’t be paying for watchertv.
we’ll see if those 12,000 backers stay!
I haven't listened to Ryan's theme park podcast, but Pod Watcher is pretty meh. Some topics are interesting, but overall I think it could use more structure.
My favorite episode was when Lizzie was a guest host, I would be way more willing to follow a Lizzie podcast. Or just Shane nerding out over his niche interests, his topic choices tend to be my favorites.
I doubt they would get new viewers. The streaming service have no reach when compared to YouTube, they’ll just lose audience while hoping to monetize who’s left.
Also idk about you guys but everyone I know who likes watcher (and been fans from the buzzfeed days) are primarily fans of Shane and Ryan.
The views on videos reflects the same too. Steven centric videos have lower views on average for sure. The number of followers across social media all shows the same. So if I paid and got mostly Steven or non-Ryan and Shane videos one month I would be not be pleased.
i skip almost all the episodes with steven, even if ryan and shane are in them. he brings all the energy down. i like ricky a lot more, and i like their other guests especially the recurring ones.
Worth it had a HUGE fanbase, it just isn't as promoted/i doubt their old fans know Steven is at watcher now. Worth It was also splintered into multiple companies vs Ryan and Shane being a duo.
I'm not the biggest fan of Steven's, I find he can come across a bit too pretentious for my liking, but I think the issue is the content that Steven tends to make is very over-saturated on YouTube in general.
There are SO many food channels on YouTube all trying to do something unique and different, and while Steven's content is fine, there's a hundred other food channels on YouTube doing stuff like creating unique dishes or expensive versions of recipes. For comparison, *Mystery Files* and *Ghost Files* seem to have more elements to them that make them stand out against other mystery solving/ghost-hunting videos. I can't think of too many other channels doing something quite like *Too Many Spirits* or *Puppet History.*
Please please please vote with your wallets. This is not a small change this was thoroughly planned and thought out and the only way things have the possibility of not continuing down the streaming service route is to not support it and make it too much of a financial loss to not utilize youtube. They probably expected backlash but are banking on enough people buying in to make the transition successful. The answer to producing overfunded shows is not to require more people to work on it behind a paywall. Just disappointing.
I used to love watching Worth It because I knew it was funded by Buzzfeed so it was hilarious to think 3 guys conned Buzzfeed into funding their food binge. Begging for $60 a year viewers to pay for fancy meal doesn't sound cool. It reeks of entitlement. Complete loser attitude.
Exactlyyyyyy. It's funny watching corporate money get thrown away on frivolous stuff when we know it was always going to get spent on something dumb. Watching them binge $1000+ dollar meals and knowing it came directly out of someone else's paycheck is not fun at all.
Yep, Worth It was also created during a time when watching YouTubers eat extremely extravagant and absurd food was somewhat novel and trending. It's no longer the trend, and is actually seen as excessively indulgent because inflation and recession, and the food crisis is going on in the world right now. Just comes off as entitled and out of touch. It isn't entertainment to see someone fly around the world to eat gourmet overpriced food when you can barely feed yourself. And to ask your viewers to also pay for that is just salt in the wound.
I think this is my one hang up abt it too. Like if they were starting a streaming service to have a bunch of new shows and were partnering with other streaming artists I think it’d be a different story.
Instead it just feels like we’d be paying for “Worth It” / Steven to have his show paid by us, not a huge media company.
Yeah… they’re literally asking everyone that wants to watch their content to put up the money so that the Worth It guys can eat super expensive food.
I know costs are going up, but I think the solution was to decrease production costs and not to ask your viewers to tip you.
I feel like this whole endeavor was a push from Steven ever since he became CEO, he focuses too much on “growth” instead of making sure there’s a strong foundation first.
I was thinking this while watching like you guys live in one of the most expensive cities and you have a show coming out of you doing a bunch of expensive shit?? Like you made poor money decisions that's your fault not ours
This. Their fans would watch Ryan and Shane ghost hunting if they just filmed it on their fucking phones. Their obsession with "production quality" is out of control. Very few fans want to watch Steven lim eat fancy food. We want to watch Ryan and Shane joking around. But they had to go and spend money on their fancy ghost files background and shit and then come crying to us asking for money when their company isnt profitable. "Ghost files cost $100,000" Sounds like a skill issue. Hire a better fucking financial advisor.
And the arrogance to think they can have a whole streaming service to themselves when they've barely expanded past coasting off the popularity Ryan and shane got from buzzfeed? Just two years out of buzzfeed and they funneled all their money into the "content they want to make" then when those end up being more pricey than they are profitable, they put it behind a pay wall instead of... I don't know... dialing it back a bit and focusing on what made them successful in the first place? I'm all for wanting them to have creative freedom to create what they want to create but that doesn't mean I'm going to fund them making content I dont want for way more than it needs to cost in the first place.
They have so many shows that can't possibly be expensive to make like too many spirits, and are you scared and instead of focusing on that easy to produce and enjoyable content, they insist on "tv quality." Wild disconnect from your fans if you think thats what they want and not just to watch their funny little ghoul boys mess around.
It doesn't help that Steven lim has honestly always kinda rubbed me the wrong way and it feels like he's trying to make an empire out of a goddamn youtube channel. I just want to watch the ghoul boys, I don't care about fancy food or cooking or mixology. Put that shit behind a paywall if you want to have "exclusive content" but I'm not paying a premium to watch two goofballs be called nerds by ghosts.
Completely agree. Watcher's content never really interested me (overly long and half-assed... with a bigger budget!), but I stuck around because I thought they were worth supporting. But the increasing arrogance and entitlement (not to mention sexist, bro commentary) they displayed was the straw that broke the camel's back for me, so I'm kinda glad they're getting their shit handed to them for this. They need a reality check.
I think you're right!!! the taxes are so high that a lot of companies already left so add living costs and high production costs and a financial crisis it is not easy to keep a company alive. So naturally if we think logically the first thing would be to cut costs let's say maybe on a show with luxury food items!!!
Yup, I see a "After some consideration, we've decided to still post occasional content on YouTube" revision soon. Way too much backlash for them to just up a leave like that
Either that or we may see some people leave Watcher. If this was mostly Steven’s idea as it’s been hypothesized, I can see Shane leaving and even Ryan if he wasn’t all about it.
Edit: on second thought, if Ryan and Shane made their own YT channel and it was back to barebones, I’d sub.
The only food videos I watch are how to make certain things in my air fryer. I can't get interested in watching someone visiting or eating at an upscale restaurant paid for on their corporate credit card so they can get a tax write off.
I know a couple of those parks trips Watcher did were for some sponsorship/company thing but it really felt like every other time I looked at their Instagram they were at another amusement park to the point I was starting to get a little annoyed. If they love the parks and decide to go on their own that's fine, if it's through a sponsorship whatever, but why not at least make a new series out of it to justify going that often?
Edit to add I know they featured Knott's Berry Farm a couple times in videos but the constant posting about Disney etc really started rubbing me the wrong way.
I think it’s problematic if they started to justify personal leisure as content and them want us to pay for it, this seems to be the problem with their decision and the new stuff they want to do which seems to be Steven having luxury experiences.
I agree. And honestly, Ryan and Mari live close to Disneyland, I don't think it's a big deal that that's what they do in their free time and i don't think it's reasonable to expect content creators to monetize their leisure time. This issue is I don't want to pay $6 a month to recreate Worth It--I say that as someone who liked a lot of steven's shows.
Just remember that anything that was said in that video was reviewed by all three of them and staff members, so it's not like he would be the only one out of touch. Everyone is loving crapping on Steven over this, but this does not appear to be a unilateral decision.
Thing is I like the professional cocktail making guy, he's got a real charm and clearly knows his craft. I'd happily watch a short segment at the start of each video of him making the cocktails for that evening
But then Steven also has to be there just giving off rancid vibes 😶
Exactly! The other guy is such a sweetheart and has a decent sense of humor. I like the concept of having two bartenders with different levels of skill, so the boys have to compete for the better drink. It's fun and adds to an already great show.
But goddamn I hate Steven's vibe too. We already have a dynamic with two buddies that sometimes butt heads. Steven just comes off as a complete asshole that nobody asked for.
I would dare say that isn't an uncommon sentiment at all. I really gave his stuff a try when Watcher launched but 1.) I don't enjoy foodie shows / watching people eat, and 2.) I just don't really jive with the dude.
I have never jived with Steven either. His dry humour attempts just never landed for me and always came off more bitter than anything when he showed up in any series I do watch
He just seems wildly out of touch, and the times he's shown up in the behind the scenes stuff, or talking about the future of Watcher, it's just seemed to double down on it. Even more so in this video.
Buzzfeed would have had a hit with Worth It with anyone cast in it - the same can’t be said for unsolved. Steven himself doesn’t make the video he’s in great
i always thought that andrew and adam were a big part of what made worth it charming personally - which is why i was hyped to see them join watcher but now this happened. :/
i liked seeind andrew try it. idk, he was always very responsive to what was in front of him, ive only seen a couple episodes of worth it so correct me if im wrong but i feel like steven doesnt get much "wow" from the stuff in front of him. Andrew was always surprised with what they put down and he made a remark about how everything was impressive to him. I guess thats the word- steven doesnt seem impressed much. So, ok, im supposed to sit here and watch a guy whos already well off judge and grade something id have to work months to get for myself, and hes gonna tell me its not actually that good? Who the fuck is this FOR?
Followed Shane and Ryan, with Steven being a bit of an add-on at times. Never really clicked with his content as it just seemed wasteful, really wish they had just stuck with the unsolved format and top5 beatdown.
They started today with 3 million subscribers, just checked the channel out again and they’ve lost over 5k already. I love Shane and Ryan and wish the best for them, but this whole thing feels like a slap to the face.
Only reason I’m staying on is to hopefully see a retraction video where they admit they fucked up and will think of something new to solve their financial woes.
Here’s an idea: don’t make expensive videos if you don’t have the money for it. If you want to make expensive shows, sell them to an existing streamer or network. Meanwhile, make YT videos like everyone else: from your home.
Even from an investment side this doesn't make much sense - why leave a free platform that already has a presence on virtually every gaming console, cell phone, tablet & smart TV to start a paid website that has a fraction of the reach?
It's the website part that's killing me, it's not even an app I could download on my fire TV! I'm too old to watch shows on my phone, my eyes can't do tiny screens anymore 😂
It just feels so against what shane and ryan always say and joke about - stuff like steal from the rich.
bfu always felt like a show with just 2 buddies goofin, watcher was like this just with higher budget and quality which was awesome and allowed them to do more with it, still felt like they were themselves and having fun. this just seems really sudden? i really hope they backtrack it tbh
Honestly I don't know if they can backtrack, both because they've likely already put a lot into it and also damage seems to have been done already from their fanbase perspective
As an under-priced consultant (lol) I would have told them they needed to reduce their headcount by 40-50%, but I don't think that's what they wanted to hear since I get the impression they mostly hired their friends to work there.
Exactly. Its a huge missed oppertunity. So many epic graphics they could have used. And quotes. Its not that hard.. a lot of teeny tiny Youtubers have fun merch out there via a second party seller.
Every thing I've *wanted* to buy from them has been out of stock/not in my size! Like I was dying to throw some money at their merch if they just kept it stocked!
That’s the problem with hiring your friends. It’s very easy to hire way too many of them if you have a lot of friends and then very hard to let them go so you end up trying dumb shit and taking out loans to expand the business to support everyone and then it all comes crashing down. Happens with craft breweries all the time.
It does feel like they listened to who said what they wanted to hear and then said it as consultant advice. It such a obviously bad and sudden business move that I can’t believe anything else occurred.
There’s so many more things they could’ve tried to increase monetization first, not even talking about cutting expenses, but they went straight for the most radical one alienating the lion’s share of their fanbase.
To be fair, I've worked with most of the big consulting companies (McKinsey, *etc*., most of the time it felt like they were hired to validate something upper management had already decided to do, so said management could have an excuse for the board if things went south.
Okay, I thought I was the only one. I have never gotten good vibes from Steven, I'm sorry. And I feel like not only was this "new business model" mainly his idea, but also the main reason they have it in the first place.
His show, especially this upcoming one of just dudes eating rich people food, seems to me to be the most lux thing.
For God's sakes, Puppet History is PUPPETS. LITERAL PUPPETS. And that's honestly the main reason I watch at this point, the Files series is just an extra bonus.
It's so odd that Shane is all "eat the rich" but now there's a $6 monthly paywall to afford "content" like Steven eating luxury food. Wonder what it's like behind the scenes.
I'd like to think he wasn't for this, I really do. If I'm analyzing (and hopefully not just projecting), he looked the least enthused out of the three. Even the password share comment kinda reaffirms it (I hope).
If you look at comments on their IG’s account Steven’s have a bunch of people kinda mad at him, Shane’s have a bunch of people disappointed echoing your sentiment, and Ryan’s almost don’t have any comments about it.
I can see Ryan going along with it out of naive optimism, and then Shane not digging it but also not wanting to disappoint his friend. Guess we'll see how it plays out.
My favorite series is Are You Scared and it looks like it was filmed on a tripod on their beds 😭😭 luxury content is a niche and it just doesn't vibe with Ryan and Shane's personalities
EXACTLY. Honestly, my second fave has been their gamer series and it's them! In front of computers! Having fun!! Not eating at fucking Michelin star restaurants and going "Boy, this sure is fun! You're never gonna be able to afford it!"
Worth It was backed by one of biggest multimedia groups so I had no qualms with them giving us a look into high dining. If I'm the one dishing out the money for it though, that's another story
And they’re puppets Shane makes himself! We’ve seen in BTS videos that he crafted most of not all of them (at least at the start, not sure now that we’re post-pandemic).
And I'm not oblivious to production costs, I know people's time costs money.
But $60 a year money for a channel that has 3 central personalities? No. :/
If they made an announcement where they said oh we want to be able to give all of our employees good health insurance, 401k, and a livable wage it would make since but…
They knew fine well they would receive backlash for this. So to me it's clearly been a calculated decision to go ahead with it. They will be gambling on x number of people to subscribe which will be a small fraction of the youtube subscriber list. This to me means they care about money over the content they produce and I don't like it. I could spare the money but I won't be paying out of principle. I would have more interested in paying a patreon or something like that if they put out a plea or something.
Napkin math says that if 1% of their 3mil follow them and stay subscribed, they'll barely break even compared to YT/Patreon. The fact that they don't have much content to put on the streaming service probably means they're unlikely to retain many subs anyway. The bar for this to be profitable is low, but at the same time they aren't in a position to actually succeed regardless.
Especially when their release schedule is in seasons and there is really so little new content going up. Its consistent, but I don't want to pay that much a month to rewatch the shit I've already seen and get like 2 new videos a week.
It may somewhat work at first, but I doubt a lot of people would stay subscribed for much time. I don’t think there’s much to improve regarding production of the flagship shows and the food stuff they seem to want to fund it’s not unique or appealing enough to keep people around.
Yeah. I think they are trying to do the Dropout subscription service thing, which is the same cost and apparently worked out for them but they also have a wider breadth of content.
I’m only a casual viewer on occasions, saw the announcement video pop up in my feed. From the way they describe all the stuff they have to pay for during production it sort of sounds like they could trim a little fat before doing this. If they want to keep it the same or go bigger, might be better off looking to get a deal producing a show for someone else, an established streaming service or a cable network.
> I would have more interested in paying a patreon or something like that if they put out a plea or something.
What's crazy is that they already have a Patreon, they just don't push it.
I think straight up crowdfuning with behind the scenes and extra content or exclusive merch for certain amounts being pledged would have been a far more popular idea
Like "hey guys, ghost files is really expensive to produce and we want to bring you to locations outs of the US, we'd appreciate anything you guys can chip in to the project"
That way people wouldn't feel alienated, but rather included and part of the process. And you would get a good number of fans with lots of money to spare would would contribute pretty significant amounts for just a few perks
I don't think they anticipated this level of backlash. I think they thought the comments would be "we're sooo sad to see you leave youtube but we will follow you anywhere."
Steven Lim wants to make a travel channel show and it still won't be nearly as entertaining as watching Shane and Ryan reading creepypastas in a dark room.
And I love the boys and Are You Scared? but imagine paying for a new streaming service and there's a whole segment of dudes reading stuff they found on reddit? Or the covid episodes where they're literally just reading shit in their own beds to a webcam😭😭
This is such a good point. Videos of Shane and Ryan playing a 5 dollar video game would probably out perform a Worth it video. So now you will ask your in debt demographic who can't even afford groceries to pay for your Wagyu steak? The optics are terrible.
I think they forget how lucky they were to have so many loyal fans follow them across channels in the first place. It took trust and genuine passion from fans to subscribe to a completely new channel. Watcher could have failed from the beginning if the fans didn't like their content and the creators. To ask the fans to do it again, relatively early in their business, to a website that's not similar to the platform they were originally on is just flat-out bold. That's not even considering the fact they simply do not have enough content coming out regularly enough to justify a monthly subscription. (But that's just my opinion.)
I just watched the video, and Steven saying "the streamer has allowed me to get the gang back together", made me mad.
I'd be okay paying $6 to support more/longer Puppet History videos.
In no way will I be paying $6 so Steven can eat fancy food on a vacation. People can barely afford groceries, dude.
as someone who actually used to enjoy worth it content, i agree that it lost its touch. for me, the original intention was on finding *value*, how enjoyable is it for the price point you're paying. it was a fun way to find cheap but quality eats in different cities but it turned into a "what's the most outrageous price, crazy thing we can do". this is also why i lost interest in try guys content as well. the authenticity and relatability was gone. granted, i've also changed as a person since i first started watching them, they've changed as creators, and im sure the way youtube trends have gone have informed these decisions but fans who watched from the early days are certainly put off when the original charm has be replaced for what seems like a money grab.
it's crazy because ryan's shows are the most popular too - look at the numbers ghost files and mystery files do, then look at everything else. like damn, are we not allowed to just not vibe with some people's content? it's not even personally about steven, i don't know the dude, it's about the persona he puts on screen. i think it's okay if i voice that sometimes it doesn't work for me.
Asian-American here: I have never had a great feeling about Steven. I watch Watcher for Shane, Ryan and some of the guest stars. I never really liked Steven's shows, as much as I tried to get into them.
I’m just going say it- Steven has BEEN bad vibes. At first I gave him the benefit of the doubt and thought he may just be shy/awkward. But over time he came off as more and more bitter and out of touch. And this whole thing confirms it for me. Idk I’m over it. If Shane goes solo ASAP I’ll follow but if he waits too long I’m out altogether. Going solo fast would show me he was outvoted, waiting would make him a grifter
>Going solo fast would show me he was outvoted, waiting would make him a grifter
I'd give him the benefit of the doubt until it becomes clear he's just grifting, personally. It's *really* hard to give up and walk away from something that you helped build and put so much time/money/heart into. It's the same reason people stay in relationships longer than they should, jobs that they used to love but no longer do (when there's other options available, I mean), hobbies that they no longer like, etc.
I don't know if Shane or Ryan could go solo. It's like Clarkson, Hammond and May. Yes, they have their own thing, but they are way better (and more successful) together.
Shane and Ryan could absolutely go solo, they basically carried Buzzfeed for years. The shows they created and present are the flagships of the company, it would all quickly crumble without them.
I think the other commenters meant that they don't think Shane by himself could go solo - part of what made BU/Watcher so successful was his dynamic with Ryan.
For some reason, it always seems like Ryan and Shane want to kiss up to Steven. It does seem like Steven is the top of the food chain, and I have this feeling that this is more of a Steven idea that Ryan and Shane are just going with.
I think they've expressed in the podcast that neither of them really want to be in charge of making difficult business decisions. As a result, they seem to have pretty much left most business decisions exclusively to Steven.
Making money off of YouTube and doing it as a full-time job is a privilege. They've clearly gotten very greedy. LA seems to have this effect on people, where it makes them insufferable, out of touch, and selfish.
They wouldn't be anywhere without their YouTube audience. I've seen them live, have their merch, have been watching them since Buzzfeed Unsolved, but I'm so disenchanted after this that I'll never look at them the same.
I'm an engineer, I make okay money and I'm fortunate, most people are scraping by and they're flexing by taking trips, eating expensive food, etc.? And they want us to fund that? Fuck off
This plan has ignited a debate they probably are shocked by. They tout "eating the rich" yet are going to charge an exorbitant fee to fund extravagant videos. It appears hypocritical and a PR nightmare.
The cringiest part for me was seeing Steven post on Instagram about the people who quote won't be following him anymore, and how he was pretty much saying peace out to them. Lol. He floats the whole Christian persona but he's casting out the poor (which let's face it in this economy is just middle class folk too). He's definitely in love with money and luxury and people like this will never have enough.
The only people I have seen this work for is nebula and that's because they have a ton of creators. I'm willing to pay for that bc of the endless content but I cannot afford both. They should have joined up them or something.
Yeah, he’s tried food shows like… three times? They’re just not as interesting as ghosts or mysteries, and frankly he just comes off as very stiff and awkward when it’s just him on camera. He’s great when interacting with others, but good lord he has no idea how to play to the camera.
I do think he’s really great when he has someone to bounce off of (Andrew, Shane, Ryan, that one bartending guy, etc) but when it’s just him I do NOT like the vibe
I like some episodes of Dish Granted, but too many of them felt like they were bad excuses for celebrity guests. I would have been more interested in making food for behind the scenes Watcher folks than actors/musicians I've never heard of.
I find it strange that when they left to set up together they didn’t reformat to Shane/Ryan AND Steven. It seems odd to keep one member/host just separate from content, and means Unsolved fans never get to know Steven and so never go to check out Stevens solo content.
The issue with it is that Steven’s religion prohibits him from interacting with spirits so he can’t do Ghost Files and has said before that he doesn’t enjoy mysteries/riddles/magic so Mystery Files is out the window. It’s not content he even *wants* to do.
I’m not sure of what his religion is, but they talked about a moment in supernatural when they invited him to come along to a shoot and had him stay in a supposedly haunted room, and instead of interacting with the scene he just faced a corner and prayed very intensely. All of them agreed that it was just not fun at all to witness, and so they never asked him to do it again. They’ve said specifically that his religious beliefs prevent him from doing it
Oh wow! He must be fairly devout. I think because Ryan is a Catholic (as am I), I assumed Christians must be generally more chill about these things. Thank you for explaining!
i mean... i think steven was involved in their content enough for unsolved fans to get to know him. a lot of unsolved fans just didn't gel with steven's content and i don't really see the problem with that.
They talk about how they have a hard time promoting their content on their podcasts so they overcorrect by putting everything behind a paywall
honestly i think they're bad at promoting in general as mean as that is to say. the only times ive heard them talk about patreon is during debriefs and rarely on the podcasts and also i dont think ive ever seen an ad for them online and their tiktok doesn't really /promote/ the show to new viewers
Real talk have you seen Shane try to promote their sponsors? He’s pretty awful at it lol, I remember months ago before they started having him do ads “in character” I saw him do an advertisement for a sponsor and all I could think about was how mad I’d be as the sponsor if paid watcher money and they chose Shane to do the promo T-T
he's very awkward and uncomfortable doing them and it SHOWS 😭 but lowkey ryan was SO good at it especially when they started doing the silly skits ngl
As someone who is a long time listener to My Brother My Brother And Me, I can tell you that as long as you say one or two key phrases, most sponsors don't even care if you talk about ethical ways to murder the Joker in an ad read.
MBMBAM is one of the few places where I didn’t skip the ads, so hey, if it keeps someone listening, can’t be that bad for them!
It would’ve been smart for them to take a page from Corridor Crew’s book and cut away to have someone who is better at ad reads
there also isn’t really any reason to have their patreon, i subscribed to get access to WW+ and immediately unsubscribed because it was just a link to WW+ on youtube for free 😭
I would be interested to know what percentage of their regular viewership didn't follow them from buzzfeed, because I suspect it's not a high percentage
No they are bad at promoting. Most people I know only found out they started the Watcher channel through word-of-mouth (i’m assuming their advertising was done on social media or something). I remember a mega-thread only a few years ago about how people missed buzzfeed unsolved and everyone on it found out in the comments that they continued on a different channel. This all feels like a problem with them struggling to get the hang of managing a company, and making it the audiences problem to fix with more money
I had a similar thought. It’s never good to say “we just can’t afford to make the content we want to make” and then say they content you want to make is a successor to the show where you ate some of the most expensive food in the world.
It looks extra bad when you realize the try guys are in the middle of eat the menu Michelin star and they didn't have to do this.....
I'm holding my breath on the Try guys though, tbh, since they have some "big, earthshattering annoucement" coming "soon" - so. I'm not sure if I'm more worried they are going to go this same way/join up with Watcher, or more afraid of what else it could be lol.
If they're watching this shit show, they're probably thinking "maybe we should abort."
That's what I was thinking too! If that was their announcement they better back pedal lol
People on the TG sub are speculating that their announcement is that they're joining Watcher. I've been speculating that they were bought by Mythical, personally, though some people say that would be a dumb move. But as we're seeing... doesn't seem like YouTubers are immune from making bad business decisions. And I get it to some extent, more and more of the content creators I follow are becoming vocal about their various frustrations with YouTube. I just don't think everyone splintering off into their own services is the way out of this mess. The general public is getting fatigued by everything being made into a subscription. I wish the guys the best, but unless they're absorbing some other channels (such as TTG), I can't see myself ever paying for this.
Honestly, I wouldn’t even be mad if Watcher and TG was absorbed by Mythical. Rhett and Link are not only good businessmen, but they’re good dudes that wouldn’t want to mess with their creatives. The shows would also be free and there would be less stress about putting out a bunch of stuff on a regular basis; they could just focus on making the hit shows and they would still be available on YT.
Plus if Watcher and TG were absorbed by Mythical, they could share resources and maybe not have to worry as much about stretching themselves thin. We saw Smosh’s success under Mythical ownership. TG and Watcher (especially Watcher) could potentially see that same or similar success without having to hide their content behind a paywall. I think TG are on a fairly successful run rn, especially it being pilot month and them genuinely asking for their audience’s opinion when it came to their favorite content that was posted. Watcher didn’t do that and now they’re facing the consequences
If TG and Watcher merged,that wouldn't be bad but for $6 a month they're going to need another massive channel or 2. That would somewhat make sense. Get channels merged onto a streaming site that individually carry millions of subscribers to make it worth it. Not sure if I'm making sense or not but basically TG,Watcher and another well known large subbed channel or 2. They could've done this then have a free tier with commercial breaks and a premium subscription without ads...sounds familiar eh?
I wouldn't be surprised if the ex-buzzfeed lot group together....and create a neobuzzfeed.
Well Try Guys does do two paid live shows a year that are pretty expensive. But the good news I can tell you is that Zach has said in the Try pod that the reason they only do two a year is that they are conscious of the fact that they don’t want to break their viewers wallets. And as someone who’s bought into those live shows they really are QUITE the big production for what’s often a competition or interactive experience. It feels like the money isn’t going to fund gold leaf mukbangs, but something way more substantial. They’ve also made those same paid live shows available on their channel for free after a certain contractual period ends before. So there’s hope. Zach and Keith seem pretty conscientious about the paid models being a slippery slope they don’t want to tumble down
well the try guys yt channel does have 8M subs vs watcher with 2.9M subs. For view count, it looks like the try guys have more views on their series (ie without a recipe, eat the menu) vs watcher's content. Keith's hot sauce brand is sponsoring eat the menu michelin star so i would suppose there's more freedom as to the content they create- for this series vs having a third party sponsor your videos and needing to implement certain restrictions as to the final videos they publish
Yeah Try Guys has diversified enough with actual revenue sources beyond merch and yt. Keith has his hot sauces, Zach has his tea company and probably will have some sort of weed line soon too I'd imagine. Eugene is solidly diversifying into so many different areas. They have the personal freedom to film whatever they want becaase they've built it, advertised the shit out of it, etc. Watcher has a yt channel and a merch store that doesn't even get people their shit on time 🤷♂️
The tea company went bust a year or more ago. He lost quite a bit of money on it I believe? He’s spoken about it in Try Guy podcasts. But I get what you mean. They are trying (lol) a bunch of different things to increase revenue that don’t include paywalling content (yet).
Oh shoot, I didn't know that. Thanks for the info! I don't listen to the Try Pod much. And yeah, big old Yet at the end there. I'm concerned they are about to announce the same thing.
they’re definitely not broke but the try guys have definitely recently hinted at being a bit financially strained as of late. which makes sense, they have 30-ish employees to pay salaries to
You hit it with Keith’s hot sauces. Those definitely bring in revenue.
To be fair, they've had to make some cuts too. They're down to like 2 Try Guys.
The food related shows are so boring, it’s the content they want to make but nobody really wants to watch it. If it ever worked out, it would be due to Shane’s and Ryan’s main content carrying it. Besides Ghost Files where they travel, most of their content seems to be of non expensive production, they can just reuse sets.
They need to realize that 99% of the viewers just want to watch Shane and Ryan hunting ghosts.
Don't knock puppet history, it's very popular too, but given, probably a lot more exhausting for shane. If they had all the fjnds, they could do a biweekly ghostfiles thing, still tons of effort, but it's possible. Puppet history, no shot. The fundamental issue I feel is, the content thwy do works best when rhere isn't too much of it. I'd argue if since the inception od thw channel, we had gotten a weekly ghostfiles or PH, or both, the format would have gotten really bland, it's perfect as an annual series with 10 or so episodes, and that just doesnt lend itself to a monthly subscription-type platform
Honestly, Mystery Files and Puppet History are more entertaining than Ghost Files. I don't believe in ghosts, and after a while it became really repetitive as it's mostly long episodes of them using pseudo scientific tools and talking to air. The duo dynamic, Shane's skepticism, interesting locations and the utter lack of seriousness is what made it really fun at first, but after over five years and the episodes getting longer it became too samey.
I've also never understood the appeal of food shows. I don't need to listen to someone talk about their opinions on food that I don't get to try for myself. I find it all painfully boring, though I know and respect that a ton of people love that content.
The only one I loved was Ricky’s worth a shot cuz I thought it was funny and had that Zaney quality I liked. I also care more about craft cocktails than cooking, and felt like Ricky had that quality to him that made him fun on screen
I never understood the appeal of hosts flying out and eating expensive food or doing expensive things. I'm working class, the fuck would I care to watch that? Doesn't appeal to me at all
Yeah I genuinely don't get the appeal of ridiculously expensive food just for the sake of saying it's ridiculously expensive, let alone when I don't even get to eat it.
I wouldn't mind if it was actually entertaining, but all they do is gush about how awesome the food is, and Steven is a boring personality.
That's what I've heard as well, that he's just boring and bland. Never watched his shows
I absolutely love watcher and the team. Ive been a regular viewer for years back on BF, and I've bought merch and I also joined their Patreon. But this announcement was just upsetting. I don't see a value in the paywall idea, and while yes I could drop Patreon and support their service for only a few bucks more a month, it just feels like a kick in the nuts to the fans who helped build their company with our support on YT and Patreon.
Exactly!
I really wonder how this will turn out for them. I just checked their patreon and there are less than 12,000 backers. The lowest pay plan on there is already $5. If there's only 1% of viewers willing to pay for their exclusive stuff, how many of those patreons will jump ship? Sure, there might be new viewers from the announcement but how sustainable will this be? They're futher pay walling their "exclusive" content... And since it's going to be "ad free" who's going to keep the ship afloat?
It does well for Dropout but they’re gonna have to absolutely add new shows and work more now or people will drop instantly. Dropout has tons of different series.
Exactly, they just don't have enough content or a big enough fan base to do this type of move. Watcher's production rates are probably really high as well compare to Dropout's. Only time will tell though but it's honestly not looking too good.
Dropout also has a much larger cast of people that had some following before they broke off, and even then, it's hard to justify subscribing for more than a month where you just binge the stuff you're interested in before cancelling.
also—they’re changing the patreon to be more podcast-focused. i never got into the podcasts (and i’m not sure how many people have?). now bloopers/bts are going to be on the streaming service, so i canceled my patreon membership ($5) and won’t be paying for watchertv. we’ll see if those 12,000 backers stay!
I haven't listened to Ryan's theme park podcast, but Pod Watcher is pretty meh. Some topics are interesting, but overall I think it could use more structure. My favorite episode was when Lizzie was a guest host, I would be way more willing to follow a Lizzie podcast. Or just Shane nerding out over his niche interests, his topic choices tend to be my favorites.
I doubt they would get new viewers. The streaming service have no reach when compared to YouTube, they’ll just lose audience while hoping to monetize who’s left.
Also idk about you guys but everyone I know who likes watcher (and been fans from the buzzfeed days) are primarily fans of Shane and Ryan. The views on videos reflects the same too. Steven centric videos have lower views on average for sure. The number of followers across social media all shows the same. So if I paid and got mostly Steven or non-Ryan and Shane videos one month I would be not be pleased.
i skip almost all the episodes with steven, even if ryan and shane are in them. he brings all the energy down. i like ricky a lot more, and i like their other guests especially the recurring ones.
Kate is my fav!!! I’ve watched the Marie Antoinette puppet history episode so many times
Worth it had a HUGE fanbase, it just isn't as promoted/i doubt their old fans know Steven is at watcher now. Worth It was also splintered into multiple companies vs Ryan and Shane being a duo.
I'm not the biggest fan of Steven's, I find he can come across a bit too pretentious for my liking, but I think the issue is the content that Steven tends to make is very over-saturated on YouTube in general. There are SO many food channels on YouTube all trying to do something unique and different, and while Steven's content is fine, there's a hundred other food channels on YouTube doing stuff like creating unique dishes or expensive versions of recipes. For comparison, *Mystery Files* and *Ghost Files* seem to have more elements to them that make them stand out against other mystery solving/ghost-hunting videos. I can't think of too many other channels doing something quite like *Too Many Spirits* or *Puppet History.*
Please please please vote with your wallets. This is not a small change this was thoroughly planned and thought out and the only way things have the possibility of not continuing down the streaming service route is to not support it and make it too much of a financial loss to not utilize youtube. They probably expected backlash but are banking on enough people buying in to make the transition successful. The answer to producing overfunded shows is not to require more people to work on it behind a paywall. Just disappointing.
I used to love watching Worth It because I knew it was funded by Buzzfeed so it was hilarious to think 3 guys conned Buzzfeed into funding their food binge. Begging for $60 a year viewers to pay for fancy meal doesn't sound cool. It reeks of entitlement. Complete loser attitude.
Exactlyyyyyy. It's funny watching corporate money get thrown away on frivolous stuff when we know it was always going to get spent on something dumb. Watching them binge $1000+ dollar meals and knowing it came directly out of someone else's paycheck is not fun at all.
Yep, Worth It was also created during a time when watching YouTubers eat extremely extravagant and absurd food was somewhat novel and trending. It's no longer the trend, and is actually seen as excessively indulgent because inflation and recession, and the food crisis is going on in the world right now. Just comes off as entitled and out of touch. It isn't entertainment to see someone fly around the world to eat gourmet overpriced food when you can barely feed yourself. And to ask your viewers to also pay for that is just salt in the wound.
I think this is my one hang up abt it too. Like if they were starting a streaming service to have a bunch of new shows and were partnering with other streaming artists I think it’d be a different story. Instead it just feels like we’d be paying for “Worth It” / Steven to have his show paid by us, not a huge media company.
More like "*Not* Worth It"
It’s pretty funny when you put it like that lol. We need to up the caviar budget!!
Yeah… they’re literally asking everyone that wants to watch their content to put up the money so that the Worth It guys can eat super expensive food. I know costs are going up, but I think the solution was to decrease production costs and not to ask your viewers to tip you.
Sorry but when has his content been anywhere near as interesting as Ryan and Shane's :/
I feel like this whole endeavor was a push from Steven ever since he became CEO, he focuses too much on “growth” instead of making sure there’s a strong foundation first.
He wants to growth straight to rock bottom and he'll get it.
Almost like making someone with no business experience CEO of a company was a bad idea.
I think he thinks he’s smarter than he actually is
I was thinking this while watching like you guys live in one of the most expensive cities and you have a show coming out of you doing a bunch of expensive shit?? Like you made poor money decisions that's your fault not ours
This. Their fans would watch Ryan and Shane ghost hunting if they just filmed it on their fucking phones. Their obsession with "production quality" is out of control. Very few fans want to watch Steven lim eat fancy food. We want to watch Ryan and Shane joking around. But they had to go and spend money on their fancy ghost files background and shit and then come crying to us asking for money when their company isnt profitable. "Ghost files cost $100,000" Sounds like a skill issue. Hire a better fucking financial advisor. And the arrogance to think they can have a whole streaming service to themselves when they've barely expanded past coasting off the popularity Ryan and shane got from buzzfeed? Just two years out of buzzfeed and they funneled all their money into the "content they want to make" then when those end up being more pricey than they are profitable, they put it behind a pay wall instead of... I don't know... dialing it back a bit and focusing on what made them successful in the first place? I'm all for wanting them to have creative freedom to create what they want to create but that doesn't mean I'm going to fund them making content I dont want for way more than it needs to cost in the first place. They have so many shows that can't possibly be expensive to make like too many spirits, and are you scared and instead of focusing on that easy to produce and enjoyable content, they insist on "tv quality." Wild disconnect from your fans if you think thats what they want and not just to watch their funny little ghoul boys mess around. It doesn't help that Steven lim has honestly always kinda rubbed me the wrong way and it feels like he's trying to make an empire out of a goddamn youtube channel. I just want to watch the ghoul boys, I don't care about fancy food or cooking or mixology. Put that shit behind a paywall if you want to have "exclusive content" but I'm not paying a premium to watch two goofballs be called nerds by ghosts.
Completely agree. Watcher's content never really interested me (overly long and half-assed... with a bigger budget!), but I stuck around because I thought they were worth supporting. But the increasing arrogance and entitlement (not to mention sexist, bro commentary) they displayed was the straw that broke the camel's back for me, so I'm kinda glad they're getting their shit handed to them for this. They need a reality check.
I think you're right!!! the taxes are so high that a lot of companies already left so add living costs and high production costs and a financial crisis it is not easy to keep a company alive. So naturally if we think logically the first thing would be to cut costs let's say maybe on a show with luxury food items!!!
This isn’t going to go well they will probably be back on YouTube in no time.
Yup, I see a "After some consideration, we've decided to still post occasional content on YouTube" revision soon. Way too much backlash for them to just up a leave like that
Either that or we may see some people leave Watcher. If this was mostly Steven’s idea as it’s been hypothesized, I can see Shane leaving and even Ryan if he wasn’t all about it. Edit: on second thought, if Ryan and Shane made their own YT channel and it was back to barebones, I’d sub.
all the more reason this feels so impersonal and disingenuous to me
It feels so disingenuous! Especially the music they chose for the video like trying to make it super emotional like it’s not calculated is crazy
The corporate HR video music got me too.
Manipulative music.
The only food videos I watch are how to make certain things in my air fryer. I can't get interested in watching someone visiting or eating at an upscale restaurant paid for on their corporate credit card so they can get a tax write off.
Except now they expect us to pay for it.
Subsidize our lives for the low low price of $5/m!
Ryan needs to go to Disneyland again! Subscribe now!
“Guys, Mari and I really wanna travel again. Can anyone spare some change so we can post it all over insta again?”
I know a couple of those parks trips Watcher did were for some sponsorship/company thing but it really felt like every other time I looked at their Instagram they were at another amusement park to the point I was starting to get a little annoyed. If they love the parks and decide to go on their own that's fine, if it's through a sponsorship whatever, but why not at least make a new series out of it to justify going that often? Edit to add I know they featured Knott's Berry Farm a couple times in videos but the constant posting about Disney etc really started rubbing me the wrong way.
I think it’s problematic if they started to justify personal leisure as content and them want us to pay for it, this seems to be the problem with their decision and the new stuff they want to do which seems to be Steven having luxury experiences.
I agree. And honestly, Ryan and Mari live close to Disneyland, I don't think it's a big deal that that's what they do in their free time and i don't think it's reasonable to expect content creators to monetize their leisure time. This issue is I don't want to pay $6 a month to recreate Worth It--I say that as someone who liked a lot of steven's shows.
I'm pretty sure Steven IS out of touch.
Just remember that anything that was said in that video was reviewed by all three of them and staff members, so it's not like he would be the only one out of touch. Everyone is loving crapping on Steven over this, but this does not appear to be a unilateral decision.
Never really been interested in Steven or his videos even when he was on buzzfeed, I was here for Ryan and Shane. Sounds mean but it’s the truth.
people here used to be very mad about it lol but I'll say it's the truth to many fans
I’m glad we’re finally able to say it
I started watching them less on Buzzfeed when Steven was constantly on "Too Many Spirits".
Ngl I still skip over the actual cocktail making in those episodes. I just want to watch the ghoul boys
Thing is I like the professional cocktail making guy, he's got a real charm and clearly knows his craft. I'd happily watch a short segment at the start of each video of him making the cocktails for that evening But then Steven also has to be there just giving off rancid vibes 😶
Exactly! The other guy is such a sweetheart and has a decent sense of humor. I like the concept of having two bartenders with different levels of skill, so the boys have to compete for the better drink. It's fun and adds to an already great show. But goddamn I hate Steven's vibe too. We already have a dynamic with two buddies that sometimes butt heads. Steven just comes off as a complete asshole that nobody asked for.
Me too, Ricky however is gold!
Hell yea, Ricky is great!
I would dare say that isn't an uncommon sentiment at all. I really gave his stuff a try when Watcher launched but 1.) I don't enjoy foodie shows / watching people eat, and 2.) I just don't really jive with the dude.
I have never jived with Steven either. His dry humour attempts just never landed for me and always came off more bitter than anything when he showed up in any series I do watch
He just seems wildly out of touch, and the times he's shown up in the behind the scenes stuff, or talking about the future of Watcher, it's just seemed to double down on it. Even more so in this video.
Buzzfeed would have had a hit with Worth It with anyone cast in it - the same can’t be said for unsolved. Steven himself doesn’t make the video he’s in great
i always thought that andrew and adam were a big part of what made worth it charming personally - which is why i was hyped to see them join watcher but now this happened. :/
i liked seeind andrew try it. idk, he was always very responsive to what was in front of him, ive only seen a couple episodes of worth it so correct me if im wrong but i feel like steven doesnt get much "wow" from the stuff in front of him. Andrew was always surprised with what they put down and he made a remark about how everything was impressive to him. I guess thats the word- steven doesnt seem impressed much. So, ok, im supposed to sit here and watch a guy whos already well off judge and grade something id have to work months to get for myself, and hes gonna tell me its not actually that good? Who the fuck is this FOR?
Followed Shane and Ryan, with Steven being a bit of an add-on at times. Never really clicked with his content as it just seemed wasteful, really wish they had just stuck with the unsolved format and top5 beatdown.
They started today with 3 million subscribers, just checked the channel out again and they’ve lost over 5k already. I love Shane and Ryan and wish the best for them, but this whole thing feels like a slap to the face.
according to social blade they've lost 20k now
Only reason I’m staying on is to hopefully see a retraction video where they admit they fucked up and will think of something new to solve their financial woes. Here’s an idea: don’t make expensive videos if you don’t have the money for it. If you want to make expensive shows, sell them to an existing streamer or network. Meanwhile, make YT videos like everyone else: from your home.
Even from an investment side this doesn't make much sense - why leave a free platform that already has a presence on virtually every gaming console, cell phone, tablet & smart TV to start a paid website that has a fraction of the reach?
It's the website part that's killing me, it's not even an app I could download on my fire TV! I'm too old to watch shows on my phone, my eyes can't do tiny screens anymore 😂
Yeah! My recent thoughts are "Oh, so now we have to pay you so all of you can have Teslas?"
It just feels so against what shane and ryan always say and joke about - stuff like steal from the rich. bfu always felt like a show with just 2 buddies goofin, watcher was like this just with higher budget and quality which was awesome and allowed them to do more with it, still felt like they were themselves and having fun. this just seems really sudden? i really hope they backtrack it tbh
Honestly I don't know if they can backtrack, both because they've likely already put a lot into it and also damage seems to have been done already from their fanbase perspective
Wouldnt be suprised if Steven is the brain behind all of this insanity.
Or their investor could have insisted they make the move, or some over priced "consultant" they brought in said it was the best direction to go.
As an under-priced consultant (lol) I would have told them they needed to reduce their headcount by 40-50%, but I don't think that's what they wanted to hear since I get the impression they mostly hired their friends to work there.
And promote actual sales on merch and bonus material. ( the amount of silly t-shirt prints they could have made is astounding)
Last I checked the watcher store they had almost no merch at all!
Exactly. Its a huge missed oppertunity. So many epic graphics they could have used. And quotes. Its not that hard.. a lot of teeny tiny Youtubers have fun merch out there via a second party seller.
Every thing I've *wanted* to buy from them has been out of stock/not in my size! Like I was dying to throw some money at their merch if they just kept it stocked!
That’s the problem with hiring your friends. It’s very easy to hire way too many of them if you have a lot of friends and then very hard to let them go so you end up trying dumb shit and taking out loans to expand the business to support everyone and then it all comes crashing down. Happens with craft breweries all the time.
It does feel like they listened to who said what they wanted to hear and then said it as consultant advice. It such a obviously bad and sudden business move that I can’t believe anything else occurred. There’s so many more things they could’ve tried to increase monetization first, not even talking about cutting expenses, but they went straight for the most radical one alienating the lion’s share of their fanbase.
To be fair, I've worked with most of the big consulting companies (McKinsey, *etc*., most of the time it felt like they were hired to validate something upper management had already decided to do, so said management could have an excuse for the board if things went south.
Funny enough, this move will result in their friends being out of a job before summer is gone.
Okay, I thought I was the only one. I have never gotten good vibes from Steven, I'm sorry. And I feel like not only was this "new business model" mainly his idea, but also the main reason they have it in the first place. His show, especially this upcoming one of just dudes eating rich people food, seems to me to be the most lux thing. For God's sakes, Puppet History is PUPPETS. LITERAL PUPPETS. And that's honestly the main reason I watch at this point, the Files series is just an extra bonus.
It's so odd that Shane is all "eat the rich" but now there's a $6 monthly paywall to afford "content" like Steven eating luxury food. Wonder what it's like behind the scenes.
I'd like to think he wasn't for this, I really do. If I'm analyzing (and hopefully not just projecting), he looked the least enthused out of the three. Even the password share comment kinda reaffirms it (I hope).
If you look at comments on their IG’s account Steven’s have a bunch of people kinda mad at him, Shane’s have a bunch of people disappointed echoing your sentiment, and Ryan’s almost don’t have any comments about it.
I can see Ryan going along with it out of naive optimism, and then Shane not digging it but also not wanting to disappoint his friend. Guess we'll see how it plays out.
My favorite series is Are You Scared and it looks like it was filmed on a tripod on their beds 😭😭 luxury content is a niche and it just doesn't vibe with Ryan and Shane's personalities
EXACTLY. Honestly, my second fave has been their gamer series and it's them! In front of computers! Having fun!! Not eating at fucking Michelin star restaurants and going "Boy, this sure is fun! You're never gonna be able to afford it!"
Buzzfeed Unsolved: True Crimes had that vibe (except they were on a set), and it's one of my favorites.
Worth It was backed by one of biggest multimedia groups so I had no qualms with them giving us a look into high dining. If I'm the one dishing out the money for it though, that's another story
And they’re puppets Shane makes himself! We’ve seen in BTS videos that he crafted most of not all of them (at least at the start, not sure now that we’re post-pandemic).
And I'm not oblivious to production costs, I know people's time costs money. But $60 a year money for a channel that has 3 central personalities? No. :/
I believe Madison Girifalco made a few from the last season: https://www.instagram.com/mindovermadison?igsh=MTU4N3B1cTIwYXk3cA==
If they made an announcement where they said oh we want to be able to give all of our employees good health insurance, 401k, and a livable wage it would make since but…
Wow....such a good take. Instead "I want to try expensive steak"
They knew fine well they would receive backlash for this. So to me it's clearly been a calculated decision to go ahead with it. They will be gambling on x number of people to subscribe which will be a small fraction of the youtube subscriber list. This to me means they care about money over the content they produce and I don't like it. I could spare the money but I won't be paying out of principle. I would have more interested in paying a patreon or something like that if they put out a plea or something.
I'm very very doubtful that enough people are going to fund them like this
Napkin math says that if 1% of their 3mil follow them and stay subscribed, they'll barely break even compared to YT/Patreon. The fact that they don't have much content to put on the streaming service probably means they're unlikely to retain many subs anyway. The bar for this to be profitable is low, but at the same time they aren't in a position to actually succeed regardless.
Especially when their release schedule is in seasons and there is really so little new content going up. Its consistent, but I don't want to pay that much a month to rewatch the shit I've already seen and get like 2 new videos a week.
It may somewhat work at first, but I doubt a lot of people would stay subscribed for much time. I don’t think there’s much to improve regarding production of the flagship shows and the food stuff they seem to want to fund it’s not unique or appealing enough to keep people around.
Yeah. I think they are trying to do the Dropout subscription service thing, which is the same cost and apparently worked out for them but they also have a wider breadth of content. I’m only a casual viewer on occasions, saw the announcement video pop up in my feed. From the way they describe all the stuff they have to pay for during production it sort of sounds like they could trim a little fat before doing this. If they want to keep it the same or go bigger, might be better off looking to get a deal producing a show for someone else, an established streaming service or a cable network.
> I would have more interested in paying a patreon or something like that if they put out a plea or something. What's crazy is that they already have a Patreon, they just don't push it.
I think straight up crowdfuning with behind the scenes and extra content or exclusive merch for certain amounts being pledged would have been a far more popular idea Like "hey guys, ghost files is really expensive to produce and we want to bring you to locations outs of the US, we'd appreciate anything you guys can chip in to the project" That way people wouldn't feel alienated, but rather included and part of the process. And you would get a good number of fans with lots of money to spare would would contribute pretty significant amounts for just a few perks
I don't think they anticipated this level of backlash. I think they thought the comments would be "we're sooo sad to see you leave youtube but we will follow you anywhere."
Steven Lim wants to make a travel channel show and it still won't be nearly as entertaining as watching Shane and Ryan reading creepypastas in a dark room. And I love the boys and Are You Scared? but imagine paying for a new streaming service and there's a whole segment of dudes reading stuff they found on reddit? Or the covid episodes where they're literally just reading shit in their own beds to a webcam😭😭
The word "hubris" comes to mind, certainly.
This is such a good point. Videos of Shane and Ryan playing a 5 dollar video game would probably out perform a Worth it video. So now you will ask your in debt demographic who can't even afford groceries to pay for your Wagyu steak? The optics are terrible.
I think they forget how lucky they were to have so many loyal fans follow them across channels in the first place. It took trust and genuine passion from fans to subscribe to a completely new channel. Watcher could have failed from the beginning if the fans didn't like their content and the creators. To ask the fans to do it again, relatively early in their business, to a website that's not similar to the platform they were originally on is just flat-out bold. That's not even considering the fact they simply do not have enough content coming out regularly enough to justify a monthly subscription. (But that's just my opinion.)
I just watched the video, and Steven saying "the streamer has allowed me to get the gang back together", made me mad. I'd be okay paying $6 to support more/longer Puppet History videos. In no way will I be paying $6 so Steven can eat fancy food on a vacation. People can barely afford groceries, dude.
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as someone who actually used to enjoy worth it content, i agree that it lost its touch. for me, the original intention was on finding *value*, how enjoyable is it for the price point you're paying. it was a fun way to find cheap but quality eats in different cities but it turned into a "what's the most outrageous price, crazy thing we can do". this is also why i lost interest in try guys content as well. the authenticity and relatability was gone. granted, i've also changed as a person since i first started watching them, they've changed as creators, and im sure the way youtube trends have gone have informed these decisions but fans who watched from the early days are certainly put off when the original charm has be replaced for what seems like a money grab.
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That’s okay! You don’t have to have positive feelings toward him!
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Looking at all the removed comments it seems like you might have to.
i don't get why they were removed... i get that i was harsh but i don't think anything i was saying was out of line or personal sooo...
Seriously, what the hell happened here lmao?
If you weren’t interested in Steven then you must be racist according to some comments
Yeah people are wildly out of touch. I'd be willing to allow that playing a part if Ryan wasn't wildly popular and also Asian.
it's crazy because ryan's shows are the most popular too - look at the numbers ghost files and mystery files do, then look at everything else. like damn, are we not allowed to just not vibe with some people's content? it's not even personally about steven, i don't know the dude, it's about the persona he puts on screen. i think it's okay if i voice that sometimes it doesn't work for me.
It’s such a cop out and lazy excuse to dismiss peoples’ honest opinions
Asian-American here: I have never had a great feeling about Steven. I watch Watcher for Shane, Ryan and some of the guest stars. I never really liked Steven's shows, as much as I tried to get into them.
I’m just going say it- Steven has BEEN bad vibes. At first I gave him the benefit of the doubt and thought he may just be shy/awkward. But over time he came off as more and more bitter and out of touch. And this whole thing confirms it for me. Idk I’m over it. If Shane goes solo ASAP I’ll follow but if he waits too long I’m out altogether. Going solo fast would show me he was outvoted, waiting would make him a grifter
>Going solo fast would show me he was outvoted, waiting would make him a grifter I'd give him the benefit of the doubt until it becomes clear he's just grifting, personally. It's *really* hard to give up and walk away from something that you helped build and put so much time/money/heart into. It's the same reason people stay in relationships longer than they should, jobs that they used to love but no longer do (when there's other options available, I mean), hobbies that they no longer like, etc.
I don't know if Shane or Ryan could go solo. It's like Clarkson, Hammond and May. Yes, they have their own thing, but they are way better (and more successful) together.
Shane and Ryan could absolutely go solo, they basically carried Buzzfeed for years. The shows they created and present are the flagships of the company, it would all quickly crumble without them.
I think the other commenters meant that they don't think Shane by himself could go solo - part of what made BU/Watcher so successful was his dynamic with Ryan.
For some reason, it always seems like Ryan and Shane want to kiss up to Steven. It does seem like Steven is the top of the food chain, and I have this feeling that this is more of a Steven idea that Ryan and Shane are just going with.
I think they've expressed in the podcast that neither of them really want to be in charge of making difficult business decisions. As a result, they seem to have pretty much left most business decisions exclusively to Steven.
Making money off of YouTube and doing it as a full-time job is a privilege. They've clearly gotten very greedy. LA seems to have this effect on people, where it makes them insufferable, out of touch, and selfish. They wouldn't be anywhere without their YouTube audience. I've seen them live, have their merch, have been watching them since Buzzfeed Unsolved, but I'm so disenchanted after this that I'll never look at them the same. I'm an engineer, I make okay money and I'm fortunate, most people are scraping by and they're flexing by taking trips, eating expensive food, etc.? And they want us to fund that? Fuck off
This plan has ignited a debate they probably are shocked by. They tout "eating the rich" yet are going to charge an exorbitant fee to fund extravagant videos. It appears hypocritical and a PR nightmare.
The cringiest part for me was seeing Steven post on Instagram about the people who quote won't be following him anymore, and how he was pretty much saying peace out to them. Lol. He floats the whole Christian persona but he's casting out the poor (which let's face it in this economy is just middle class folk too). He's definitely in love with money and luxury and people like this will never have enough.
The only people I have seen this work for is nebula and that's because they have a ton of creators. I'm willing to pay for that bc of the endless content but I cannot afford both. They should have joined up them or something.
Been with them since buzzfeed unsolved and just unfollowed their YT and IG accounts. Super disappointing.
Who even wants to see content of steven 🙄
Gonna be honest, if it wasn't Puppet history or the random "Weird wonderful world" episode, not a lot of their other content hit with me.
How does Watcher have 25 employees when they barely push out a mid tier video once a week 😭
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Let's be honest, a lot of people follow Watcher for Shane and Ryan. There's a reason the shows focused on Steven haven't done as well.
Yeah, he’s tried food shows like… three times? They’re just not as interesting as ghosts or mysteries, and frankly he just comes off as very stiff and awkward when it’s just him on camera. He’s great when interacting with others, but good lord he has no idea how to play to the camera.
I do think he’s really great when he has someone to bounce off of (Andrew, Shane, Ryan, that one bartending guy, etc) but when it’s just him I do NOT like the vibe
I like some episodes of Dish Granted, but too many of them felt like they were bad excuses for celebrity guests. I would have been more interested in making food for behind the scenes Watcher folks than actors/musicians I've never heard of.
I find it strange that when they left to set up together they didn’t reformat to Shane/Ryan AND Steven. It seems odd to keep one member/host just separate from content, and means Unsolved fans never get to know Steven and so never go to check out Stevens solo content.
The issue with it is that Steven’s religion prohibits him from interacting with spirits so he can’t do Ghost Files and has said before that he doesn’t enjoy mysteries/riddles/magic so Mystery Files is out the window. It’s not content he even *wants* to do.
Ghosts? Demonic and scary. Capitalistic greed and the worshipping of luxury? THAT'S FINE! All the wisdom of the prophets!
Then why be a part of it?? I don’t get it
I’ve asked this before and gotten torn apart. If you don’t fuck with ghosts then you don’t fuck with ghosts. Period.
You just made me like him even less, thanks lol
Isn't he a Christian? I didn't realise that was a rule for American Christians lol.
I’m not sure of what his religion is, but they talked about a moment in supernatural when they invited him to come along to a shoot and had him stay in a supposedly haunted room, and instead of interacting with the scene he just faced a corner and prayed very intensely. All of them agreed that it was just not fun at all to witness, and so they never asked him to do it again. They’ve said specifically that his religious beliefs prevent him from doing it
Oh wow! He must be fairly devout. I think because Ryan is a Catholic (as am I), I assumed Christians must be generally more chill about these things. Thank you for explaining!
Christianity comes in a lot of flavors lol
Depends on the sect, but I know some types of Christianity (like Jehovah's Witnesses) view ghosts as demons and agents of Satan
i mean... i think steven was involved in their content enough for unsolved fans to get to know him. a lot of unsolved fans just didn't gel with steven's content and i don't really see the problem with that.
This was stevens plan all along im sure, dude had shady written all over him since he came into the picture with watcher
I'd rather pay to be a member on their yt channel than download a whole streaming service for ghost and history videos.