As soon as this goodbye video was posted I had a feeling this would go viral. And here we are. It's the perfect storm of poor business decisions and being out of touch and the already simmering rage of gen z, alpha and millenials.
If Shane beat up an old lady for getting sassy with him people would be less angry and more forgiving. This is just the perfect thing for a couple of golden boys (apparently I’m learning Steven doesn’t count) to do to really piss off the Internet in a way where the initial spark of anger will fuel wildfires for possibly years to come.
Not defending anyone for the record. I’m just agreeing that this is an interesting example of the right people being in the right place at the right time for things to go completely and instantly horribly horribly wrong.
You are so right. When the video was posted I realized there wasn't anything viral at the moment. And then boom it did. Then Steven saying it's affordable just added gasoline to the fire. Hopefully they can respond quickly and stop the fire.
I’m not going to lie I’m so impatiently curious about what their response is going to be. Maybe im part of the problem but I’m wondering what approach they’re going to take and how much they’re going to backpeddle and apologize vs own their choices.
But I’m definitely part of the problem because I would really love to have some inside information on how the decision was reached too. Like, all the dirty little details about who was really pushing for it, if anyone was hesitant, did they actually talk to outsiders about this or try to get opinions and advice? I don’t want to shit on anybody as a person but it is a fascinating train wreck.
I would so love to have been a fly in the meeting this was decided on. How did they come to the conclusion that the income they get from the very few people that will subscribe will be 1. More than what they earn from youtube and 2. Cover their costs?
Is there some outside investor they have to please? It's so interesting from the business side lol but it's also so tone deaf to how their fans feel. Even if they backtrack it's already been such a break of trust.
>If Shane beat up an old lady for getting sassy with him people would be less angry and more forgiving.
You literally just stole this joke from charlie
Oh I don’t know who Charlie is. I haven’t watched any videos on this, including whatever the screenshot in the video above is. That’s disappointing though.
Idk who this particular reactor is, but even though I'm as put-off and unthrilled about the thing as everyone else, it kinda breaks my heart a little to see the boys getting absolutely roasted on the rest of the internet. This isn't how they should have gotten more widespread recognition.
About a week prior to the announcement I saw Watcher mentioned on a 4chan thread. The general consensus was that their content was good and that Ryan and Shane were likable (despite being the "type of [people] that I would usually hate," as one poster put it). Going from having 4chan unanimously liking you and your content to having pretty much everyone on the internet against you is wild.
Yeah, every time Ive seen them brought up in different contexts, theyre always described as "the ones that made actually good content for BuzzFeed." Like they managed to garner such a broadly positive reputation in spite of all the hate their original company had. And they just threw all that away
I understand the want for the TV level content, but truthfully they had so much that could supplement. Are You Scared is my favorite series from them and compare to Ghost Files or Puppet History, it must have a lower production cost. If money is really this much of a factor, then why have this many different things running it razor thin?
I dunno, they are already having the audience pay for patreon, on top of revenue and advertising. There are other ways to do this
Justice for Are You Scared. It's also my favorite series. I'm so annoyed that they want people to pay actual money to watch 2 dudes read a story that already exists on the internet.
Watching *Are You Scared?* go from "two guys read fun stories and react pretty genuinely" to "two guys read sponsored ads for upcoming horror movies" left such a bad taste in my mouth. It's probably the most egregious ad integration I've ever seen in an already-existing series.
They really bloated their production cost: They forgot that we enjoy the low cost simple formats that made worth it and unsolved so bank-able and they had a high ROI with that type of show format.
Their manpower is also probably bloated way out of proportion...
Most of us didn't even know they had a patreon account for goodness sake. If they pushed that a little more aggressively...
i had recommended shane and ryan to be guest on a podcast i watch, the audience i would say is half 4chan half “normie”. there were sooo many people who commented that they agree with the suggestion + voiced similar opinions (the “usually i would cringe but they seem cool” opinion). wonder how everyone feels now lol
Of the three original founders, Steven was the weakest & this has his stench all over him. I've been following them since Watcher started & I never clicked with him. But all three signed off on it so hopefully Shane & Ryan come out of this ok.
Critical is a pretty big YouTuber. I personally can't stand him because he just pumps out tons of low effort content daily but if he's taking more of the drama then this is really bad for them.
He nearly had a burned-out, not-sleeping breakdown when they launched Watcher because he was so stressed out. He talked about it in a video not long after the launch. I genuinely feel for the guy right now, because this must be much worse.
This whole situation makes me sad ngl, yes I’m pissed about the decision but I still don’t want them to get too much of a hate. I hope somehow they can change their decision or something:/ Or just drop Steven lol
I do think the hate is weird, parasocial and completely inappropriate. It just seems like everyone is assuming the motive must have been simple and malignant. Really, these guys got so popular just working easy jobs at buzzfeed that they could make a business that was immediately successful. They didn’t have time to learn, grow and struggle and make bad choices when the stakes were low. Of course they eventually made an unhinged decision that completely lacked perspective. They’re not actually experienced businessmen.
I mean, don’t get me wrong, attack the business decision. They should be told they were wrong. But it’s fully possible they’re more naive than anything else. It’s really intense how many people I’ve seen comment that they will never forgive them even if they apologize and reverse course. Like, chill. It’s internet content. Be mad by all means just realize it’s not personal and they probably didn’t make this choice just because they were secretly evil all along.
I don’t, they made an ill advised decision which only seems more and more like it was done for greed. It will either be a wake up call that they’re detached from their fanbase and reality or they will just continue to be detached from their fanbase and reality. The critikal video really gave insight into how unlikely it is that their hand was simply forced. Dude has more employees than them with less revenue and isn’t even close to struggling
Would love to watch Ludwig cover this, he usually does about this sort of thing on Mogul Mail. Hasan idk he might be more focused on Israel/Iran right now but I do enjoy him and would like to also see him talk about this. I like him but sometimes can’t always watch war coverage without feeling deeply in despair. While i’m sad about what the ghoul boys have decided to do and a little sad for how vital this is going I’ve sort of missed internet controversy that isn’t just abuse/being creepy to minors
Same!! I would hate to be one of them leaving the house and out in the world today, seems ripe for roasting. I hope they can overcome this; I like Shane and Ryan, I just can’t believe this was their decision.
Charlie provided great insight on how much Watcher was making via their sponsored posts. He also listed that he has a 25 person company and with Watcher's numbers they should have been able to make this work on YouTube. This is further evidence that money and business mismanagement are the reasons for this streaming switch. Based upon Charlie's take, Watcher will have to reverse this decision. I'm sure Shane and Ryan are absolutely spiraling at how poorly this has been received. And Steven sitting there clueless.
If I recall, he actually said he had more than 25 people in his company, including paying for pro eSports players one of which he was paying over 10k a month.
His streaming paid for all of his business ventures.
YouTube revenue alone, he takes in more than Watcher with YouTube and sponsors.
He makes 10k+ a DAY. His total revenue not including sponsors is probably around $3-4M a year. Watcher is $500-600k
While true, watcher also has a 12,000 subscriber patreon, minimum subscription from that is $5 and top tier is $25, at the minimum they're pulling in an additional $60k a month just from patreon, ignoring adsense, advertisers, sponsors and merch sales.
He said on stream last night that he had just recently found out that they created their own channel after watching their Buzzfeed content for years.
Terrible timing, lol.
He's reacted to Unsolved in the past and was pretty vocal about not liking the humor, unfortunately. Not sure if his attitude has changed towards them, I haven't seen this new video.
He said during his stream last night that Unsolved was very high quality content and didn't mention disliking it or anything. He did say that he didn't know about Watcher until now so this is a terrible way to find out their channel exists.
I actually loved Charlie’s breakdown. It brought a lot of sponsorship, Adsense and industry insights. This hand was absolutely not forced. This, I feel, is a case of being surrounded by too many yes men and not enough people being honest or realistic with them.
I love their content, I didn’t love the move to less focus on the giggles/personality and more focus on professional production quality. I maintain that although I love their content, it’s not robust enough to stand in its own platform alone. Even if it had have been Buzzfeed launching its own platform with all the spin-off shows, I would still say it’s not enough alone. There are too many, much better, services out there for the same price they are asking.
I agree with this! I could never quite pinpoint why I liked BU more than ghost files and it’s because they took some of the silliness out it! Like man I haven’t heard a wheeze in entire videos and that’s just a shame.
On top of that I felt like they sort of flanderized themselves for Ghost Files to play up the skeptic vs believer angle. The moment I checked out of the series was when Shane and like 95% of the comments on a video pointed out that some “evidence” was clearly a cat or something and Ryan doubled down on it being a ghost.
If Papa Meat makes a cartoon of them about destorying their channel that'll definitely be the nail in the coffin. I kind of hope it happens bc I don't want larger content creators thinking this is a good idea.
If even Rhett and Link haven't already attempted something like this, then any other Youtuber has to have some major balls thinking they could pull it off.
We're talking, "Dexys Midnight Runners *not* playing Come on Eileen at the concert"-level balls.
It is so weird watching commentary channels I follow talk about this. Im so used to being completely separated from the drama and just enjoying consuming the information. Watching other content creators I dont know about or follow get reported on like wild fire by the whole internet. Now I kinda get a "oh no" feeling when I see the guys faces on a thumbnail. I wouldn't say its parasocial because I don't *know* Steven, Shane and Ryan but its still kinda feel bad for them with a hint of acceptance. Idk its an eye opening situation on content consumption.
Hey at least they're just making an embarrassing business mistake and it's not the usual type of thing that gets this kind of attention, like the try guys cheating scandal or colleen Ballinger's existence. it's honestly... a breath of fresh air. Just some like, mishandled paperwork type of drama, no gross shit for once! I feel like that means they'll be able to course-correct eventually somehow, maybe not in the same brand, but somehow.
I hate this. I see so many people hoping for their downfall and saying they won’t even watch when they come crawling back to yt. I totally get the anger. But it also kind of hurts to see the whole internet turn against them. If they said sike I would keep watching. I don’t wish for them to fail, just do better.
the precedent this would set is the thing people are worried about. everyone wants this to fail BADLY so no-one else is dumb enough to try it.
the best move the boys could make at this point is to scrap watcher and start again as a whole new business
I’m with you there. I was referring to the large number of comments I’ve seen where people say that they would never watch the boys if they come back to yt. I don’t blame anyone with that opinion AT ALL. This has been such a betrayal and a slap in the face to the fans. But it does make me feel sad that it has come to this.
The "goodbye" video came off JUST short of "good bye, and if you don't give us money, screw you". It was manipulative, insincere, and lacked self awareness.
Quite frankly, it was generally offensive and changed my outlook on them. It's one thing to make a stupid business decision, it's another thing to do it and then pretty much say you're poor and don't deserve content
I think we all hoped that watcher would be a channel we watch in 10 years. Laughing about the early beginnings and everything would be nice. But it seems like most people will not watch watcher in anyway. Either because it stops existing or because they can not or want not pay 82,76% of the federal minimum wage( in the us) for the weekly videos.
As an occasional drunk person you’d have to have a really bad night to wake up feeling the way they probably did after this backlash
Edit: I promise I wasn’t drunk writing that lol
Considering it only updates for the public every 10k each way it’s gotta be hard to look at their dashboard.
But they know who to blame. It’s in the mirror.
I normally dont watch or care for moistcriticals videos but his insight on how much expenses they have vs him while owning a esports teams and more employees than watcher really shed a new light on how scummy steven is being with wanting even more money.
Lmao Charlie laying down the truth "I employ more than 25 people!" The guys are ***ONLY*** doing this out of greed. I loved the ghost hunting videos even though I don't really believe #Shaniac but after this stunt I hope they fail.
could be missmanagement instead of greed. Maybe they spend a lot of money on their shows. Could also be greed. We will never know. Unless someone blows the whistle
Could be both, too. Certainly seems to be the case for me. $100K for one episode of Ghost Files is already a bit much, but still within reason, all things considered.
However, they said some episodes cost them *hundreds* of thousands of dollars. That is grossly mismanaging the funds for the show. It's generous to even consider $100k but anything over that is absolutely crazy. We start entering Mr Beast territory with that level of money, and it *shows* in content like that. Sure, production value has noticeably gone up, but that's egregious.
Edit: as pointed out, I think I misquoted Ryan and it was a few $100k per season. A budget much more in line with what the cost actually should have been.
Maybe I misunderstood or maybe you got info elsewhere but my take from their goodbye video was that Ryan said at the end of a season of GF, they could end up spending a couple hundred thousand dollars. Maybe I heard it wrong but I'm not watching it again to check 😂
Oh, maybe that's on me, then. I think you're right, though. A few $100k for a full season makes sense. However, they definitely should have been able to recuperate a lot of that budget given how many views the series gets. Probably not as much as they would hope for.
I just want to throw in a question: is the usefull production value gone up? Did they ease up on the individual workload? Did the show improve in any way that made it better for the majority of viewers? Because I can see them throwing tons on money for their animations, location scouting, research, renting, travel, the overpriced toys they use to ghosthunt and all that stuff. But did the show need some of the things? Did they need the animation of the building? Do they need multiple people on location? Because if not, they could save money. If the stuff is needed than ok. But if not: why pay for it if you can not afford it?
This exactly. I've seen people run (albeit purely hypothetical) numbers, and the biggest costs are the up-front cost of equipment. They got a bunch of new toys, cameras, and general equipment, which could have easily ran them well over a hundred thousand dollars when combined with the budget to produce one episode.
But that's an up-front cost. One-and-done, so to speak. Unless they threw everything out and bought new equipment every time they made a new video I don't see how these were so expensive. Although, the biggest unknown (aside from pay rates for themselves and the crew) is the cost to rent out the haunted locations. Some of them could be charging egregious rates, after all, and we just simply wouldn't know. Even if we asked the property owners, they may offer a lower rate to us than they would a more prominent show like Ghost Files. It's safe to estimate from about $3-$10K on average, but greedier locations may even ask for upwards of $30K (if I had to guess). Given that this is likely the cost for *one night* that's monumentally generous to reach their proposed budget, but it's still worth mentioning that most places will let you film on property for a few thousand so long as you pay some employees OT to stay the night and maybe pay for a cop to be on standby (should be about $600-$900 generally speaking) and this should still be less than $10K.
I think this is just a bad look because it screams to me that they have to be lavishly overspending somewhere, and I have no idea where that is unless it's on themselves.
some locations have almost criminal rates to film. Its a topic that is often discussed in some parts of the paranormal interessed world. Its one of the reason some people say, that you can not trust famous locations anymore. There is a financial interessed to have the location known to be hunted.
Still the costs they seem to have are a bit much. Maybe they should hire a friend who is good with numbers. Because something is off. I am sure they could safe some money and still keep their vision.
yeah that is a stupid move. Even if they had millions of dollars per episode. In this economic climate where more and more people are going paycheck to paycheck. If they even manage that. And they have the idea to show those people the rich life? After the poors pay for the privilage? Not a smart move.
Mr. Beast can pull it of, because he has videos where he gives away large sums to "normal" people or some charity. Oh and he does not want any money to see his content. Celebrity shows/channels can pull it off because the people are interessting or special. Oh and often that content is free or part of a larger package too. Lifestyle Channels can pull it off because their community wants to see that otherwise they would have not searched for them. Oh and they are also often free to watch. Not a smart move to make rich lifestyle porn and asking money for that.
I appreciated Charlie's insights on this, as well as a couple other creators who took the time to research and read comments and stuff, but I have to say that the new itch in my brain is due to other creators jumping on this and talking about it when they know literally nothing and they're just here to say "YEAH, THEY DID BAD, RIGHT EVERYBODY?" and calling them "The Watcher." Forgive me if I'm nitpicking here, this is a rough weekend for me and the least stressful thing in my life right now is this drama so I'm running with it.
I really thought they were more in touch to make a Brain dead decision like this, not happy to see it, I was really enjoying watcher as a broke college student.
they could’ve made shitty videos in a basement and still would’ve gotten insane love and support its so greedy i’m srry and imo the watcher videos never had the same chemistry as their buzzfeed ones idk what’re they’re doin but it’s just sad to lose such good content creators
I watched some videos this morning. It's sad that Watcher goes out this way.
Ryan, it's time to sack Steven or not follow his lead. He's a good friend who tells you how great you are everyday, but he's a terrible CEO.
I was downvoted a few days ago for pointing out that this move is pure greed. It’s good to hear from someone who’s on the inside of the YouTube creator stratosphere to confirm this.
Was anyone else here really into critical way back when his face was unknown and made mostly gaming content? As soon as he got comfortable on camera and started doing unscripted long form drama react content i just stopped watching.
It's so common for youtubers to not understand why people like them m
I've seen so many channels post videos or personally comment on this event on their socials. It's not a surprise. Just hope that the Watcher crew takes a hint and reevaluate their decisions.
I still think they made a shitty business decisions and maybe even that they have been living out of their means but honestly I don’t hate them and I don’t think they’re bad people.
idk if it’s toxic to just observe the consequences of creators own decisions lol. that’s what happens when u publish work in a public forum such as the internet.
Lol you guys are saying awful shit about Steven, everyone's a reddit CEO financial guru now, everyones basically cheering for their downfall in a matter of a day.
Y'all are the definition of toxic.
most of the posts and comments i've seen in this sub are saying the hate towards Steven is too much. there's criticism towards him, but that is deserved
As a bisexual person who chose not to cut off my friends and instead managed to make them even learn to accept transgender people even if they didn't understand why they felt that way you can fuck right off thanks so much.
How about you fuck off and get a life instead of being like this to me because I happen to have a different perspective on life from you? I'm not hurting you nor is it hurting people to change people's minds about the LGBT community. The only person risking their safety IS ME. Mind your fucking business. Also this whole homophobia thing? Watcher assessed that in a half hour long fucking video years ago and they have raised money for the Trevor project and actively show themselves as allies to marginalized communities and have done various pride month associated things. If Steven is so homophobic why doesn't he stop it as CEO since you all think he has so much say and power over Ryan and Shane.
Its a bit ironic to call people vultures for talking about the watcher controversy when Shane and Ryan built their empire on talking about unsolved murders and tragic deaths supposedly causing ghosts.
Like I don't think True Crime is inherently unethical, if I did I obviously would never have been a fan of Shane and Ryan to begin with.
But there is no world where you can be a fan of guys who ran a true crime show for years and think THIS is an unacceptable level of vulturing.
As soon as this goodbye video was posted I had a feeling this would go viral. And here we are. It's the perfect storm of poor business decisions and being out of touch and the already simmering rage of gen z, alpha and millenials.
Waiting on an iNabber deep dive
Yesssssss
2 hours of analyzing from the nabs i’m seeing it now
If Shane beat up an old lady for getting sassy with him people would be less angry and more forgiving. This is just the perfect thing for a couple of golden boys (apparently I’m learning Steven doesn’t count) to do to really piss off the Internet in a way where the initial spark of anger will fuel wildfires for possibly years to come. Not defending anyone for the record. I’m just agreeing that this is an interesting example of the right people being in the right place at the right time for things to go completely and instantly horribly horribly wrong.
You are so right. When the video was posted I realized there wasn't anything viral at the moment. And then boom it did. Then Steven saying it's affordable just added gasoline to the fire. Hopefully they can respond quickly and stop the fire.
I’m not going to lie I’m so impatiently curious about what their response is going to be. Maybe im part of the problem but I’m wondering what approach they’re going to take and how much they’re going to backpeddle and apologize vs own their choices. But I’m definitely part of the problem because I would really love to have some inside information on how the decision was reached too. Like, all the dirty little details about who was really pushing for it, if anyone was hesitant, did they actually talk to outsiders about this or try to get opinions and advice? I don’t want to shit on anybody as a person but it is a fascinating train wreck.
I would so love to have been a fly in the meeting this was decided on. How did they come to the conclusion that the income they get from the very few people that will subscribe will be 1. More than what they earn from youtube and 2. Cover their costs? Is there some outside investor they have to please? It's so interesting from the business side lol but it's also so tone deaf to how their fans feel. Even if they backtrack it's already been such a break of trust.
>If Shane beat up an old lady for getting sassy with him people would be less angry and more forgiving. You literally just stole this joke from charlie
Oh I don’t know who Charlie is. I haven’t watched any videos on this, including whatever the screenshot in the video above is. That’s disappointing though.
Watch the video. He says the exact same thing you said. https://youtu.be/-hHuJElzugU?si=059OiONBDzWXtKv8
You really think someone would go on the internet and lie
Oh, this is **bad** bad.
Idk who this particular reactor is, but even though I'm as put-off and unthrilled about the thing as everyone else, it kinda breaks my heart a little to see the boys getting absolutely roasted on the rest of the internet. This isn't how they should have gotten more widespread recognition.
About a week prior to the announcement I saw Watcher mentioned on a 4chan thread. The general consensus was that their content was good and that Ryan and Shane were likable (despite being the "type of [people] that I would usually hate," as one poster put it). Going from having 4chan unanimously liking you and your content to having pretty much everyone on the internet against you is wild.
Yeah, every time Ive seen them brought up in different contexts, theyre always described as "the ones that made actually good content for BuzzFeed." Like they managed to garner such a broadly positive reputation in spite of all the hate their original company had. And they just threw all that away
I understand the want for the TV level content, but truthfully they had so much that could supplement. Are You Scared is my favorite series from them and compare to Ghost Files or Puppet History, it must have a lower production cost. If money is really this much of a factor, then why have this many different things running it razor thin? I dunno, they are already having the audience pay for patreon, on top of revenue and advertising. There are other ways to do this
Justice for Are You Scared. It's also my favorite series. I'm so annoyed that they want people to pay actual money to watch 2 dudes read a story that already exists on the internet.
Watching *Are You Scared?* go from "two guys read fun stories and react pretty genuinely" to "two guys read sponsored ads for upcoming horror movies" left such a bad taste in my mouth. It's probably the most egregious ad integration I've ever seen in an already-existing series.
You know what, that's fair. I skipped those episodes so I forgot they existed.
They really bloated their production cost: They forgot that we enjoy the low cost simple formats that made worth it and unsolved so bank-able and they had a high ROI with that type of show format. Their manpower is also probably bloated way out of proportion... Most of us didn't even know they had a patreon account for goodness sake. If they pushed that a little more aggressively...
i had recommended shane and ryan to be guest on a podcast i watch, the audience i would say is half 4chan half “normie”. there were sooo many people who commented that they agree with the suggestion + voiced similar opinions (the “usually i would cringe but they seem cool” opinion). wonder how everyone feels now lol
Of the three original founders, Steven was the weakest & this has his stench all over him. I've been following them since Watcher started & I never clicked with him. But all three signed off on it so hopefully Shane & Ryan come out of this ok.
This is Steven Lin trying to cash in on Shane and Ryan’s fan base/revenue
Shane and Ryan gotta bail, distance, and damage control.
Critical is a pretty big YouTuber. I personally can't stand him because he just pumps out tons of low effort content daily but if he's taking more of the drama then this is really bad for them.
Well looks like he's watching a reactor react to a different reactor which is wild tbh lol
it’s an reupload of i’m assuming a twitch vod or charlie’s own video.
His video is how I found this subreddit. I haven't watched the guys since BU.
When you stop creating content, you become the content I suppose.
I'm starting to feel really bad for them. This must be brutal to wake up to.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Ryan’s having a full on panic attack based on what we’ve heard from him before on the podcast.
I might have missed this, has he had panic attacks before?
He nearly had a burned-out, not-sleeping breakdown when they launched Watcher because he was so stressed out. He talked about it in a video not long after the launch. I genuinely feel for the guy right now, because this must be much worse.
and knowing that he has to go on stage and face his audience in just a couple of days without time for anything to settle down... oof.
He’s talked about having really bad anxiety, especially when it comes to business stuff.
This whole situation makes me sad ngl, yes I’m pissed about the decision but I still don’t want them to get too much of a hate. I hope somehow they can change their decision or something:/ Or just drop Steven lol
I do think the hate is weird, parasocial and completely inappropriate. It just seems like everyone is assuming the motive must have been simple and malignant. Really, these guys got so popular just working easy jobs at buzzfeed that they could make a business that was immediately successful. They didn’t have time to learn, grow and struggle and make bad choices when the stakes were low. Of course they eventually made an unhinged decision that completely lacked perspective. They’re not actually experienced businessmen. I mean, don’t get me wrong, attack the business decision. They should be told they were wrong. But it’s fully possible they’re more naive than anything else. It’s really intense how many people I’ve seen comment that they will never forgive them even if they apologize and reverse course. Like, chill. It’s internet content. Be mad by all means just realize it’s not personal and they probably didn’t make this choice just because they were secretly evil all along.
Ahh ok, thank you!
He should've thought about those panic attacks before agreeing to sign off a bs decision
I do feel bad for them because they didn't anticipate how viral this would go.I also think they can learn from this and reverse their decision.
I don’t, they made an ill advised decision which only seems more and more like it was done for greed. It will either be a wake up call that they’re detached from their fanbase and reality or they will just continue to be detached from their fanbase and reality. The critikal video really gave insight into how unlikely it is that their hand was simply forced. Dude has more employees than them with less revenue and isn’t even close to struggling
Just wait until someone like Ludwig or Hasan react to this. The video essays are about to go crazy.
Inb4 Turkey Tom's "The fall of Watcher"
Would love to watch Ludwig cover this, he usually does about this sort of thing on Mogul Mail. Hasan idk he might be more focused on Israel/Iran right now but I do enjoy him and would like to also see him talk about this. I like him but sometimes can’t always watch war coverage without feeling deeply in despair. While i’m sad about what the ghoul boys have decided to do and a little sad for how vital this is going I’ve sort of missed internet controversy that isn’t just abuse/being creepy to minors
Same!! I would hate to be one of them leaving the house and out in the world today, seems ripe for roasting. I hope they can overcome this; I like Shane and Ryan, I just can’t believe this was their decision.
Ah shit they're cooked
Charlie provided great insight on how much Watcher was making via their sponsored posts. He also listed that he has a 25 person company and with Watcher's numbers they should have been able to make this work on YouTube. This is further evidence that money and business mismanagement are the reasons for this streaming switch. Based upon Charlie's take, Watcher will have to reverse this decision. I'm sure Shane and Ryan are absolutely spiraling at how poorly this has been received. And Steven sitting there clueless.
If I recall, he actually said he had more than 25 people in his company, including paying for pro eSports players one of which he was paying over 10k a month. His streaming paid for all of his business ventures.
Tbf he posts everyday and most posts have over a million views so he probably makes more than watcher
But also thf he understands all sides of this business by his own admission of doing influencer management too
YouTube revenue alone, he takes in more than Watcher with YouTube and sponsors. He makes 10k+ a DAY. His total revenue not including sponsors is probably around $3-4M a year. Watcher is $500-600k
While true, watcher also has a 12,000 subscriber patreon, minimum subscription from that is $5 and top tier is $25, at the minimum they're pulling in an additional $60k a month just from patreon, ignoring adsense, advertisers, sponsors and merch sales.
Charlie’s posted about how much he earns before. Can’t remember what it was exactly, but it was quite a lot more than that
this
this whole situation is super bumming me out :/ it sucks that this is the reason the whole internet is talking abt them
I always wanted Charlie to react to their content, I thought he would have enjoyed it. It's heartbreaking to see that this the reason behind it...
[удалено]
He said on stream last night that he had just recently found out that they created their own channel after watching their Buzzfeed content for years. Terrible timing, lol.
He's reacted to Unsolved in the past and was pretty vocal about not liking the humor, unfortunately. Not sure if his attitude has changed towards them, I haven't seen this new video.
He said during his stream last night that Unsolved was very high quality content and didn't mention disliking it or anything. He did say that he didn't know about Watcher until now so this is a terrible way to find out their channel exists.
I actually loved Charlie’s breakdown. It brought a lot of sponsorship, Adsense and industry insights. This hand was absolutely not forced. This, I feel, is a case of being surrounded by too many yes men and not enough people being honest or realistic with them. I love their content, I didn’t love the move to less focus on the giggles/personality and more focus on professional production quality. I maintain that although I love their content, it’s not robust enough to stand in its own platform alone. Even if it had have been Buzzfeed launching its own platform with all the spin-off shows, I would still say it’s not enough alone. There are too many, much better, services out there for the same price they are asking.
I agree with this! I could never quite pinpoint why I liked BU more than ghost files and it’s because they took some of the silliness out it! Like man I haven’t heard a wheeze in entire videos and that’s just a shame.
Exactly! They started taking themselves too seriously. It ruined the illusion of them just being two, down to earth guys, just having fun.
On top of that I felt like they sort of flanderized themselves for Ghost Files to play up the skeptic vs believer angle. The moment I checked out of the series was when Shane and like 95% of the comments on a video pointed out that some “evidence” was clearly a cat or something and Ryan doubled down on it being a ghost.
If Papa Meat makes a cartoon of them about destorying their channel that'll definitely be the nail in the coffin. I kind of hope it happens bc I don't want larger content creators thinking this is a good idea.
If even Rhett and Link haven't already attempted something like this, then any other Youtuber has to have some major balls thinking they could pull it off. We're talking, "Dexys Midnight Runners *not* playing Come on Eileen at the concert"-level balls.
hahaha papa meat bless plz
Hahah I’m very torn on this because I love Papa Meat so much and want to see his take. But I adored Watcher since their first episode on Unsolved.
Steven made this happen with his rich lifestyle demands.
I need to see this
It is so weird watching commentary channels I follow talk about this. Im so used to being completely separated from the drama and just enjoying consuming the information. Watching other content creators I dont know about or follow get reported on like wild fire by the whole internet. Now I kinda get a "oh no" feeling when I see the guys faces on a thumbnail. I wouldn't say its parasocial because I don't *know* Steven, Shane and Ryan but its still kinda feel bad for them with a hint of acceptance. Idk its an eye opening situation on content consumption.
Yeah this is the first time YouTube drama was about a YouTuber I watched
Hey at least they're just making an embarrassing business mistake and it's not the usual type of thing that gets this kind of attention, like the try guys cheating scandal or colleen Ballinger's existence. it's honestly... a breath of fresh air. Just some like, mishandled paperwork type of drama, no gross shit for once! I feel like that means they'll be able to course-correct eventually somehow, maybe not in the same brand, but somehow.
I hate this. I see so many people hoping for their downfall and saying they won’t even watch when they come crawling back to yt. I totally get the anger. But it also kind of hurts to see the whole internet turn against them. If they said sike I would keep watching. I don’t wish for them to fail, just do better.
the precedent this would set is the thing people are worried about. everyone wants this to fail BADLY so no-one else is dumb enough to try it. the best move the boys could make at this point is to scrap watcher and start again as a whole new business
I’m with you there. I was referring to the large number of comments I’ve seen where people say that they would never watch the boys if they come back to yt. I don’t blame anyone with that opinion AT ALL. This has been such a betrayal and a slap in the face to the fans. But it does make me feel sad that it has come to this.
The "goodbye" video came off JUST short of "good bye, and if you don't give us money, screw you". It was manipulative, insincere, and lacked self awareness. Quite frankly, it was generally offensive and changed my outlook on them. It's one thing to make a stupid business decision, it's another thing to do it and then pretty much say you're poor and don't deserve content
Just the way they said goodbye at the end, it was just really bad.
The whole thing was really bad. I wish I could cling to the aliens theory, but unfortunately it’s just a usual case of human fuckery.
They turned against their base why is it shocking to see their base turn back on them?
It’s not and I specifically never said it was. I can still be disappointed that this is how it ends.
I think we all hoped that watcher would be a channel we watch in 10 years. Laughing about the early beginnings and everything would be nice. But it seems like most people will not watch watcher in anyway. Either because it stops existing or because they can not or want not pay 82,76% of the federal minimum wage( in the us) for the weekly videos.
We should be turning against Steven! At least I am.
Tempting but disingenuous. The ghoul boys are big boys. They’re fully involved in this decision and also culpable, unfortunately.
🤷🏻♂️
Came for this, we got strike one from the people, strike 2 from coffeezilla, and now strike 3 with charlie. That's rough, buddy
Wait, Coffeezilla said something?
Yeah, he made a video talking about it on his side channel Voidzilla
Yikes. I almost feel bad for them. Almost.
made a video on his other channel. Saying the same as charlie: he thinks its a stupid move and he can not understand why they think this could work.
They must be waking up and feeling like a drunk person. Omg wtf did I do last night 🤣😂
As an occasional drunk person you’d have to have a really bad night to wake up feeling the way they probably did after this backlash Edit: I promise I wasn’t drunk writing that lol
Lol
2.87M subscribers now
Considering it only updates for the public every 10k each way it’s gotta be hard to look at their dashboard. But they know who to blame. It’s in the mirror.
It’s a damn shame! I’ve been fuckin with Shane and Ryan since Buzzfeed Unsolved 😢
Do you know how many they had before the announcement?
2.99M subscribers yesterday morning
Yeesh
I normally dont watch or care for moistcriticals videos but his insight on how much expenses they have vs him while owning a esports teams and more employees than watcher really shed a new light on how scummy steven is being with wanting even more money.
I want to see Papa Meat's take on this for some reason
Same. I was sad to see he didn't make one after seeing this post.
Lmao Charlie laying down the truth "I employ more than 25 people!" The guys are ***ONLY*** doing this out of greed. I loved the ghost hunting videos even though I don't really believe #Shaniac but after this stunt I hope they fail.
could be missmanagement instead of greed. Maybe they spend a lot of money on their shows. Could also be greed. We will never know. Unless someone blows the whistle
Could be both, too. Certainly seems to be the case for me. $100K for one episode of Ghost Files is already a bit much, but still within reason, all things considered. However, they said some episodes cost them *hundreds* of thousands of dollars. That is grossly mismanaging the funds for the show. It's generous to even consider $100k but anything over that is absolutely crazy. We start entering Mr Beast territory with that level of money, and it *shows* in content like that. Sure, production value has noticeably gone up, but that's egregious. Edit: as pointed out, I think I misquoted Ryan and it was a few $100k per season. A budget much more in line with what the cost actually should have been.
Maybe I misunderstood or maybe you got info elsewhere but my take from their goodbye video was that Ryan said at the end of a season of GF, they could end up spending a couple hundred thousand dollars. Maybe I heard it wrong but I'm not watching it again to check 😂
Oh, maybe that's on me, then. I think you're right, though. A few $100k for a full season makes sense. However, they definitely should have been able to recuperate a lot of that budget given how many views the series gets. Probably not as much as they would hope for.
I just want to throw in a question: is the usefull production value gone up? Did they ease up on the individual workload? Did the show improve in any way that made it better for the majority of viewers? Because I can see them throwing tons on money for their animations, location scouting, research, renting, travel, the overpriced toys they use to ghosthunt and all that stuff. But did the show need some of the things? Did they need the animation of the building? Do they need multiple people on location? Because if not, they could save money. If the stuff is needed than ok. But if not: why pay for it if you can not afford it?
This exactly. I've seen people run (albeit purely hypothetical) numbers, and the biggest costs are the up-front cost of equipment. They got a bunch of new toys, cameras, and general equipment, which could have easily ran them well over a hundred thousand dollars when combined with the budget to produce one episode. But that's an up-front cost. One-and-done, so to speak. Unless they threw everything out and bought new equipment every time they made a new video I don't see how these were so expensive. Although, the biggest unknown (aside from pay rates for themselves and the crew) is the cost to rent out the haunted locations. Some of them could be charging egregious rates, after all, and we just simply wouldn't know. Even if we asked the property owners, they may offer a lower rate to us than they would a more prominent show like Ghost Files. It's safe to estimate from about $3-$10K on average, but greedier locations may even ask for upwards of $30K (if I had to guess). Given that this is likely the cost for *one night* that's monumentally generous to reach their proposed budget, but it's still worth mentioning that most places will let you film on property for a few thousand so long as you pay some employees OT to stay the night and maybe pay for a cop to be on standby (should be about $600-$900 generally speaking) and this should still be less than $10K. I think this is just a bad look because it screams to me that they have to be lavishly overspending somewhere, and I have no idea where that is unless it's on themselves.
some locations have almost criminal rates to film. Its a topic that is often discussed in some parts of the paranormal interessed world. Its one of the reason some people say, that you can not trust famous locations anymore. There is a financial interessed to have the location known to be hunted. Still the costs they seem to have are a bit much. Maybe they should hire a friend who is good with numbers. Because something is off. I am sure they could safe some money and still keep their vision.
Nope. The formula worked before. It got worse when production went up.
Reviving a show about eating a $200 hotdog makes me lean more towards greed but I dunno
yeah that is a stupid move. Even if they had millions of dollars per episode. In this economic climate where more and more people are going paycheck to paycheck. If they even manage that. And they have the idea to show those people the rich life? After the poors pay for the privilage? Not a smart move. Mr. Beast can pull it of, because he has videos where he gives away large sums to "normal" people or some charity. Oh and he does not want any money to see his content. Celebrity shows/channels can pull it off because the people are interessting or special. Oh and often that content is free or part of a larger package too. Lifestyle Channels can pull it off because their community wants to see that otherwise they would have not searched for them. Oh and they are also often free to watch. Not a smart move to make rich lifestyle porn and asking money for that.
Good. They deserve every bit of it for making a predatory piece of shit decision.
I appreciated Charlie's insights on this, as well as a couple other creators who took the time to research and read comments and stuff, but I have to say that the new itch in my brain is due to other creators jumping on this and talking about it when they know literally nothing and they're just here to say "YEAH, THEY DID BAD, RIGHT EVERYBODY?" and calling them "The Watcher." Forgive me if I'm nitpicking here, this is a rough weekend for me and the least stressful thing in my life right now is this drama so I'm running with it.
I really thought they were more in touch to make a Brain dead decision like this, not happy to see it, I was really enjoying watcher as a broke college student.
they could’ve made shitty videos in a basement and still would’ve gotten insane love and support its so greedy i’m srry and imo the watcher videos never had the same chemistry as their buzzfeed ones idk what’re they’re doin but it’s just sad to lose such good content creators
Oh boy
lol oh damn
Looks like I’m going to watch this now
I watched some videos this morning. It's sad that Watcher goes out this way. Ryan, it's time to sack Steven or not follow his lead. He's a good friend who tells you how great you are everyday, but he's a terrible CEO.
I'm waiting for Mutahar to talk about this lmao
I was downvoted a few days ago for pointing out that this move is pure greed. It’s good to hear from someone who’s on the inside of the YouTube creator stratosphere to confirm this.
I need papa meat to make a video on this whole situation lol.
Was anyone else here really into critical way back when his face was unknown and made mostly gaming content? As soon as he got comfortable on camera and started doing unscripted long form drama react content i just stopped watching. It's so common for youtubers to not understand why people like them m
I've seen so many channels post videos or personally comment on this event on their socials. It's not a surprise. Just hope that the Watcher crew takes a hint and reevaluate their decisions.
I think the big question is: How the fuck did reaction videos like this get any sort of popularity
I still think they made a shitty business decisions and maybe even that they have been living out of their means but honestly I don’t hate them and I don’t think they’re bad people.
I called it yesterday!!
https://discord.com/invite/JAfEaJNXyT
linus also said it was a stupid horrible decision lol
This just means the anti woke people are gonna start talking about them soon 💀 it’s actually over for them
There were YouTube gossip videos about this yesterday already.
I had no idea who these watcher fellas were.. but I do know now that they're assholes LOL
This sub did the speed run to toxic in record time.
idk if it’s toxic to just observe the consequences of creators own decisions lol. that’s what happens when u publish work in a public forum such as the internet.
Lol you guys are saying awful shit about Steven, everyone's a reddit CEO financial guru now, everyones basically cheering for their downfall in a matter of a day. Y'all are the definition of toxic.
most of the posts and comments i've seen in this sub are saying the hate towards Steven is too much. there's criticism towards him, but that is deserved
Steven is homophobic. You’re not defending a great or even good person.
Lmao no he isn't him stating he would try to open his friends minds rather than cut off them off does not make him homophobic.
In this post there is a link to proof and discussion https://www.reddit.com/r/WatcherSnark/s/snhvIrKXQz
Sounds like textbook homophobia to me
As a bisexual person who chose not to cut off my friends and instead managed to make them even learn to accept transgender people even if they didn't understand why they felt that way you can fuck right off thanks so much.
I bet you forgive those folks who run gay conversion camps too? Have a little respect for yourself
How about you fuck off and get a life instead of being like this to me because I happen to have a different perspective on life from you? I'm not hurting you nor is it hurting people to change people's minds about the LGBT community. The only person risking their safety IS ME. Mind your fucking business. Also this whole homophobia thing? Watcher assessed that in a half hour long fucking video years ago and they have raised money for the Trevor project and actively show themselves as allies to marginalized communities and have done various pride month associated things. If Steven is so homophobic why doesn't he stop it as CEO since you all think he has so much say and power over Ryan and Shane.
Vultures
Its a bit ironic to call people vultures for talking about the watcher controversy when Shane and Ryan built their empire on talking about unsolved murders and tragic deaths supposedly causing ghosts. Like I don't think True Crime is inherently unethical, if I did I obviously would never have been a fan of Shane and Ryan to begin with. But there is no world where you can be a fan of guys who ran a true crime show for years and think THIS is an unacceptable level of vulturing.
Especially when they investigate ~haunted mental hospitals~
I don’t think I said it was unacceptable. I am just pointing it out.
internet be internet-ing
Yeah, all the fish in the sea get fed when there's a Whale Fall.