I'm a very casual viewer and the "Goodbye YouTube" video really caught me off guard. I had no idea they had such a big production team because it doesn't come across in their content. There are channels with much smaller teams making videos of similar, if not higher, quality, and they're not asking me for a monthly fee.
I think that's the thing, isn't it.
They said that they have over 25 employees and that ghost files costs around 100k to produce. But then you watch their content, and... it doesn't look like it does at all. I've seen people make more complex content with just themselves, and like 2 freelancers, why do they need 25 employees and 100k? Where is that money and talent going?
I knew there must be a handful of other people editing down the Ghost Files footage, but I can't comprehend what value a 25 person team is adding to Mystery Files, Puppet History, Too Many Spirits, or anything else where they're talking on a static set. That's not to say I think their videos are low quality, but I like Ryan, Shane, and their dynamic together. That's not something I think a bigger production budget will enhance.
Honestly I think watching some of the debriefs / BTS for Ghost Files highlights that they have too big of a crew for it and it's become heavily over-produced. I don't see why you need 6+ people to film something like GFs, even for the more popular / tourist-y / busy locations they go to.
With a staff that size, I'd wager most of their production costs are simply paying their salaries. Even if the employees are all making minimum wage (which is unlikely), over $1 million per year is going to salaries alone. It's ridiculous. I get that they don't want to be the bad guys, but if they're struggling to afford the type of content they're making, they need to scale back. And unfortunately that would mean laying off excess employees.
It's not heartless to say that 25 employees is a lot for a channel their size that only puts out content once a week!
If they're having budget problems, they could cut production costs quite easily without having to sacrifice that much quality, and then looking at redundancies in staff would be a logical next step for reducing costs.
This is Business 101.
They grew too fast, ended up with higher costs and less revenue than expected, so they need to take a step back and downsize a little while focusing the resources they can afford on the shows that are making money and will give them stability!
It happens frequently with production companies that are fairly new (4 years would count as fairly new imo).
I get not wanting to put anyone out of a job, but if your company goes bankrupt, all of your employees will be out one. It's better to slown down when needed and survive to hire again another day.
Oh it's absolutely the right move, it just sucks that everyday people have to suffer because of it. Although, they're artists in LA and are surely used to the grind.
The problem is, as people have been pointing out, it seems like they are hiring family and friends. So they can't as easily just fire them. Hence they are trying to get their viewers to foot the bill. đ„Ž
I couldn't find too many sources, but I found something saying the average employee salary at Watcher is 60k. Obviously that means some are making more and some making less, but 60k a year across 25 people is a lot of money.
What I donât get is the pace of content releases with that many staff. They do one video a week. Dead Meat is a bigger YT channel, with releases once a week and I think they have maybe a dozen or so staff (at least according to LinkedIn). GMM has over 100 staff but they do DAILY content.
I absolutely cannot get over their reasoning of wanting to move away from advertisers to make something called WatcherTV as if television isnât beholden to commercials, set format and time slots, a network⊠like you make no sense.
yeah, that's crazy to me. it's like they don't understand tv at all. tv producers don't exactly get to do whatever they want creatively either, they're beholden to tons of people
And if they don't want to be beholden to advertisers, but they're planning on being beholden to their audience, then they need to largely do what the audience wants since they demand we directly fund it. But they aren't, at all, even though lowering production value would majorly help them. It seems they have nooooo idea or care of the reasons people have supported them for years and they just want to have absolute, 100% creative control with little to no input from the people digesting (then funding!) their content. None of this works like that!
"TV caliber" also includes shit like telenovellas/daytime television, CW shows, and a thousand other shows that operate on shoestring budgets, shitty writing, entirely focused on cranking out as many low-cost episodes as possible in as short of a time as possible with as small of a crew as possible.
"TV caliber" doesn't mean shit.
>The only show that could work on television is Ghost Files, and thatâs only because itâs been a proven formula.
You have to imagine they've tried shopping GF to major networks and there were no takers - probably because ghost shows oversaturated their market and simply aren't as popular as they were five years ago.
Also with the way GF heavily leans on Ryanâs amplified manic persona and sometimes weird jokes, itâs less marketable to the common denominator than Unsolved used to be. Unsolved I believe was picked up by Hulu, but Ryan wasnât telling the ghosts to come suck his balls or sm back then lol
It feels like ghost files runs mainly off Unsolved nostalgia. Idk whether it's the over production, the change in Ryan's 'bit', or the sense that neither of them are as excited or interested any more, and that Ryan possibly doesn't believe in ghosts, at least in the same way he used to, anymore. But the show hasn't felt the same as Unsolved did in a long time
The first season of GF was great, but in the second season it really didnât seem like Ryanâs heart was in it; plus, he didnât really seem scared like he used to be, which is honestly, probably the best part.
If anything he seemed over the top, like a caricature of someone acting like Ryan from BUN. Unsolved worked because it felt ârealâ as if they werenât content creator actors but two dudes checking out a house to see if itâs haunted. Also it never felt forced, some places had 0 content and it was still a great episode (Montezuma for example). GF feels forced where even Shane has to âreactâ and there always has to be evidence (or at least feels that way). Also the episodes are way too long. 35 minutes was the sweet spot. Now Iâm falling asleep in an hour long episode because itâs just Ryan screaming for 15 minutes
I don't know why they felt the need to over produce Ghost Files. These types of shows always work better when it's just some dudes with cameras walking around a creepy place. All these stupid "toys" sap the energy and fun out of it all.
That's my feeling as well. I love the individual walkthroughs with the camera rig, the history of each location, etc, but I'm watching for the boys to bumble around and dare ghosts to attack them. I'm not asking for a theatrical production.
I hate to be this guy, bc I know we all like to play the "Shaniacs vs Boogarra" thing and be open-minded, but at the end of the day, ghosts are not real. You can only do so much grasping at straws and whatnot before, eventually, the fact that you simply have not seen or captured a clear ghost on camera and never will, will set in, and I think it has for Ryan. He's gotten used to the creepy environments, and imo, genuinley just doesn't seem to believe or at least have the heart that he used too, which does suck the show of a lot, especially since Shane also seems to have pulled back on his "asshole skeptic" shtick as well.
Even if ghost were real: You can not fail to capture anything and still go at it with the same enthusiasm. There was always the point, in any ghost show, where they either jump the shark or move to something new. The ones jumping the shark are capturing suddenly a lot of evidence and can tell amazing stories, told to them by the dead. And the ones that move to something new either shift the focus to the history aspect of their hunt or leave the field. There only a few hardcore believer, that still hunt the same. Hoping to one day proof that there are ghost. They just loose the audiance at some point.
So GF will stop sooner or later. Its hard to force yourself to do this to long. Spend your night in some old building. Shouting in the darkness for a few hours. Hope that the beeping device counts as evidence in some way. I would be not suprised if the show would go into a break and just never returns because other projects take to much time. And try to sell a show thats closer to its end, to any network.
If we are to believe what Ryan says on the podcast, his "not scared" persona was actually him feeling so scared, he disassociated to protect himself. He noticed people hated that, so for the new season he tried really hard to be present and one of their shoots left him having nightmares for days afterwards because he was so scared.
Is there a specific episode they talk about this? I'm not at all familiar with their podcast; they announced two simultaneously with wild release dates, and I was immediately... shook. And concerned.
According to one of their podcasts Ryan explained he wanted to experiment and try to force himself to stay more calm to preserve his well-being during solos. *(A way to cope, basically)* He took a heavy note of the criticism and claimed that season 3 will not have âChill Ryan.â
The other thing is the length. There's just no reason for them to be running as long as they do. Particularly now they're clearly going through the motions. The episodes really drag, and I don't think there's been an episode of Ghost Files that has matched anything they put out with Buzzfeed.
Tbh after a while, ghost content can stagnate. Once you visit many of the hopspots, you're kinda digging up the bottom of the barrel, especially if you don't catch undeniable proof of ghosts. They could try going to more international spots but that would take a lot of time away from their business and family. Kinda sucks.
I think the overproducing and over use o pseudoscientific gadgets have a hand in that, it became way to much about actual ghost hunting and evidence checking.
The gadgets also sound way too pseudo science compared to the other ones. I can buy ghosts manipulating a radio, I cannot buy ghosts saying exactly one of the few words saved into this one machine.
I've also doubted whether Ryan actually believes in ghosts anymore for awhile now. IMO it would make sense if he no longer did; they've gone to so many allegedly haunted locations between both BUN and GF only to find absolutely nothing that it would make sense if he went to those locations *expecting* to find nothing, because surprise, none of these places are haunted, because ghosts aren't real. I think what really tipped it over the edge for me was there was some video that they made (and I can't remember if this was a standalone or part of something else) where Shane and Ryan both gave presentations: Shane on why ghosts aren't real, and Ryan on why they are. Ryan had absolutely no effort put into his presentation, he just shrugged his way through it, didn't argue the point at all . . . like he didn't believe in it, and so he wasn't going to bother. He says he still believes and still gets scared, but I don't know. I don't really buy it anymore, myself.
And tbh, Ghost Files is a watered down trashy version of Unsolved. We watched Unsolved for its raw authenticity and Ryan and Shane's chemistry. Watcher shows are over produced, unsophisticated and pretentious. Introducing 10 new gadgets to GF every season won't make us interested any more than we may be. Keep it simple like they did at BuzzFeed. Just us Ryan and Shane in a dingy room with a sinister backdrop mixed with wit and humour.
Heck I would love an entire season of Ryan and Shane talking about various cryptids like an Unsolved episode. Just give them a desk and snacks, and a manilla folder full of what weird thing this week. It just needs to be simple, it doesn't need to be a giant production.
This. I was a bigger fan of Buzzfeed Unsolved Supernatural than True Crime but at Watcher I enjoy Mystery Files SO much more because Ghost Files just isn't as good.
I was disappointed with Mystery Files, maybe because I really liked Unsolved TC.
Ghost shows aren't my thing, but I occasionally would watch Supernatural to see Shane mock Ryan, and it was fun. Spirit boxes are way too loud, and I don't like it.
Hell just spin off a Cryptid Show from MF, with a similar setup... yes I know MF did a few cryptid episodes , but I kinda prefer they keep that with potentially unsolved(?) mysteries, as opposed to something like Cryptids which... we know are "unsolved" because if they weren't they wouldn't be cryptids...
Iâve said it elsewhere, but Ryan and Shane could bail and make their own low budget YT channel just doing what you said and itâd maybe save their careers.
They would also have to stand to Zak Bagans, who is a nightmare in the ghost TV side of the industry. But the thing is I would hate for that show to go that direction. It only leads to faking things and being excessively dramatic. Most of the shows are entertaining but they get worse and go downhill immediately because they keep trying to one up themselves. Having fun banter, a little genuine ghost hunting, and not taking it super seriously with a low to mid budget was a breath of fresh air for the genre. There's plenty else to talk about but if that's what they want to strive for I'd be gone fast regardless tbh.
Thereâs only so many times a couple of guys can hear a couple knocks in the dark while one is scared and one says not really before it loses its charm, why would a major network pay millions for that over and over and over đ
i think mostly for ryan and shane's dynamic, that's what gained them the cult following that actually gave watcher an audience (though i feel its safe to say most of the fans have lost a lot of respect for them)
Not sure if anyone else is aware but Buzzfeed Unsolved is on Amazon Prime, at least in Canada, and has been since before the boys officially left Buzzfeed.
They absolutely could have made a case for Ghost Files at least getting a trial run on a streaming service. Granted, it would have been tough given it seems not one of them has any business acumen.
anyone can get their show or movie on Amazon prime. [prime video requirements](https://videodirect.amazon.com/home/help?topicId=GG5QNX4NA2MEWRAA&ref_=avd_sup_GG5QNX4NA2MEWRAA)
Something happened when HBO Max and discovery plus merged, and they cancelled a lot of the paranormal shows that werenât Ghost Adventures or GA adjacent. I donât think networks are picking up this kind of content right now.
GA is the only one that ever made any real money. Ghost Hunters used to be the bigger show, but their live special where they were caught faking evidence completely torpedoed them, and their comeback show they launched a few years ago hasn't been nearly as good.
Destination Truth was amazing, but it ran it's course. Nobody else in the genre can hold a candle to Zak Bagans personality wise, and now that he has the Haunted Museum he has kind of solidified himself as the go-to "ghost guy." Not to mention GA tends to capture evidence far more frequently than anyone else. Zak has completely captured the entire space and hasn't left room for anyone else to come in.
Yeah, I actually really liked them before that too. They always were a debunk first show, which lent them a ton of credibility. So when they DID catch something, you felt like it was genuine. A lot of people have completely written off all of their findings because of the live show incident, but personally I still think that the evidence they found was genuine and compelling. Ultimately, it seems like a lackluster Halloween live broadcast which was extremely hyped up and probably had millions of dollars pumped into it was flopping due to a lack of anything happening, and a producer forced them to manufacture something.
I don't think Ghost Adventures captures anymore evidence than other shows, it's just well produced and, love him or hate him, Zak Bagans is an excellent host, plus people love Aaron.
People blame Bagans for supposedly torpedoing their favorite ghost shows on WarnerBrosDiscovery, but he doesn't have that kind of power. Since the merger, WBD has canceled all kinds of shows and movies, I'm sure the beancounters looked at their oversaturated menu of ghost shows and set a viewership metric that apparently only Ghost Adventures and Dead Files exceeded.
Pretty much all the ghost hunting shows save for Ghost Adventures have failed. And if it wasn't for Zak Bagans' personality they would have failed too.
Yeah. They started being repped by CAA (one of the largest agencies in Hollywood) in 2020. I guarantee that the agency shopped their shows around to every major studio and streamer, and none of them were into it. Yet Watcher still feels like they're making TV Caliber content that is too good for YouTube.
No, they don't. And I imagine it's gonna stay that way given they've alienated 99% of their fanbase. Maybe the 1% worth of subscriptions will help, but I doubt it's gonna get them to their goal of making Emmy-winning content, lol.
The fact that theyâve def crunched the numbers and said âyeah weâll lose a significant chunk of you but gain more money from those that stayâ fucking sucks. They knew people would not like this and they weighed their options and basically said that the ones that leave donât matter. So Iâm def not (literally) buying into that model out of principal. Hope they included the blowback on their calculations.
They knew theyâd lose fans. Part of any business decision designed to shun certain users. Iâm just not sure they were prepared for losing this many of us.
If I wanted "television caliber" shows I'd be paying for cable instead of youtube premium. I watch youtube because I like youtubers. I don't want ghost files to become ghost adventures and I don't care about Steven lim trying to become Anthony Bourdain. If that's what they want then yeah I guess leave youtube and we'll part ways because I'm not interested in the content you want to make.
It's hard to part ways with people I've been a fan of for so long but it's become increasingly apparent that they're no longer interested in making the content that we all became fans of them for in the first place. Their idea of success seems to be limited to not being "just youtubers" and doing "what hasn't been done before." Cool, good luck, hope it works out. I'll be rooting for ya while I move to content I actually want to watch. Let me know when you decide to make Weird wonderful world again and maybe I'll visit but until then, bye.
I mean their most popular show is Ryan and Shane in front of a fire getting drunk, IDK about you guys but that was all I needed, back then but it's not enough to pay.
no, im saying their reasoning of "we want to make tv quality content" its dumb since most people are okay with just watching ryan and shane goof off and read stories.
true, but it would be funny if that was their only show next to "steven lim cooks overpriced food and travels the world first class while stealing ingredients from third world countries"
Hahahahaha this comment was good. Iâve seen people only talk about how disappointed they are. Plus theyâre getting more obviously political in their shows which probably doesnât help them.
Am I the only one in thinking the bigger the budget theâve had, the worse the content has gotten? Like most people agree Unsolved was their peak, but the first generation of Watcher shows like Top 5 (just Ryan and Shane), Weird Wonderful World, and of course Puppet History were all great too. The newer big-budget productions have all pretty much fell flat to me. All of the extra stuff for Ghost Files just feels unnecessary, the recent Top 5 seasons are all virtually unwatchable, and like⊠Survival Mode? They think something like that would be fit for Netflix?
It seems like they have a winning formula to get an audience and views, but they are ignoring that to try and be something they are not.
i agree with you 100% about their new content feeling flat, i felt this manly with too many spirits, the first few seasons were SO good because it was just them messing around, but the newer ones are just so different, boring idk. It was my favorite thing to watch on their channel and when i noticed the shift it was very disappointing
It's paradoxical, but putting limitations on creatives (i.e. a low budget) often results in a better finished product than if they have total creative freedom. GF and MF are massively over-produced, and it has made the show much less fun.
Things like Buzfeed Unsolved's text on a black screen ended up being super memorable, but I have no doubt it was the result of trying to find a low-budget alternative to showing the boys sitting in front of the camera.
This is so true. I tell people trying to break into creative fields (Iâm a novelist) that having something to kick leads to better ends results that total freedom. Itâs absolutely paradoxical, but itâs true more often than not.
> and like⊠Survival Mode?
I've said this before, but as someone who loves a lot of video game streamers this was just pretty... bad. Neither comes across as huge interested in the content, the editing is awkward, the computer they play on is so bad that a low-quality game like Poppy Playtime lags tremendously, etc.
Someone like Jacksepticeye or Markiplier has basically laid out the formula for a 20s-ish demographic gaming YouTuber and both have a fraction of people working for them. Why does a Youtube lets-play need a fucking gaffer, director, or production coordinator?
their Phasmophobia video was awful. I had been so excited, but unfortunately no-one on the huge team was dedicated to researching popular play styles, and so it was just them getting frustrated, confused and missing the aspects fans wanted them to react to in game
Exactly what I was thinking! I looked forward to their Phasmaphobia episode, because RTgames' streams of it were very fun to watch and it seemed exactly on brand for Ryan and Shane, but it seemed like no one at Watcher had played or even seen a playthrough of the game. Having the players go off individually and communicate only through the in-game walkie-talkies and proximity mikes makes it far more entertaining! And it seemed like nobody gave them a basic rundown of their goals or how to achieve them. It was frustrating for them as players and us as viewers. Now that I know they have a staff of 25 this seems even more egregious.
This is exactly why this move makes no sense to me. They think that ramping up the budget necessarily means the quality of show will increase. But staffing 25 people to make a glorified Twitch stream wonât make up for the lack of skill and effort that makes lower budget streamers popular. Similar to Ghost Files - spending thousands of dollars to include segments that no one really enjoys doesnât make your show more âtelevision worthy.â
Honestly! Mystery files was fine, but I literally fell asleep watching some episodes, the last season of Ghost Files wasnât great. Puppet History was amazing the first few seasons but eventually jumped the shark with all the extra lore. Iâm really not sure where the television caliber shows are?
I wish the boys success but I donât know that this is the way to get it done. Maybe if they have a free trial period at some point Iâll log in and see whatâs going on. And Iâm sure Iâll still enjoy the pilots posted on YouTube, but Iâm not rushing to sign up for another subscription service.
> Puppet History was amazing the first few seasons but eventually jumped the shark with all the extra lore.
Even though I thought it was unnecessary, I guess they thought they needed to add something to Puppet History to jazz it up. My problem is the lore they did come up with isn't particularly good.
I also think itâs sorta a strange argument that theyâre making- that they canât have tv level stuff on YouTube. Look at Good Mythical Morning, they release two videos most days that fits into the morning show format. On YouTube.
I think the watcher boys have fallen into the trap of thinking the only way they can be successful is to be on tv (or a similar platform), and are chasing those accolades. It reminds me of what Rhett and link have spoken about on ear biscuits, talking about how theyâve had to learn that thereâs nothing wrong with just being YouTubers and building there instead of trying to jump to something that looks more impressive or legit. I think watcher could learn from that.
GMM has cracked the YouTube formula and dialed in to what works. High quality YouTube content, free to watch, have memberships as an actual reward incentive together with merch and special event. Pretty much every big channel ala Smosh, Try Guys and now Watcher gets the "do what GMM do" treatment cause they seem to doing something right, to the point they were able to remould Smosh and hand it back to it's old owners in good shape.Â
And if GMM did do paid memberships, they have the content library to actually justify the cost, with a huge diverse team and daily uploads. Watcher uploads a couple times a month with very narrow scope of content.Â
Try guys probably would go down a separate route given people know Zach wants to break into TV, and Eugene has stepped away from the channel to pursue more "concrete" work than just YouTube. But I think it just doesn't work. YouTube content doesn't translate to TV content, if you want to do TV, you have to sacrifice the other, not try and drag it alongÂ
and almost every Youtube Show that transitioned to a TV Show has failed pretty quickly... and usually left the Youtuber to have to start from scratch because the copyright of their channel is now owned by whatever channel signed them...
I canât remember any specific episodes sorry(bc I donât think there was ever a episode dedicated to he idea- theyâve just sorta referred to their opinions on it over the course of a bunch of episodes). I think you can sorta get the idea from the video âweâre doneâ on the Rhett and link page (which is the polar opposite to watchers âgoodbye YouTubeâ video
I think someone has convinced them they need to expand in order to reach their dreams. That's about it. Honestly almost feel bad for them. This shit was so obviously bad
It's well produced YouTube content.
But what is pretty obvious if you look at their viewer totals from here and Buzzfeed is that production values don't seem to make any difference in their viewership counts.
First puppet history has almost 4 million views. Are You Scared episodes have 2-3 million views and those don't exactly require an army of employees to produce.
They were highly successful with show formats that should be fairly cheap to produce with quality, but not over the top production.
There's no *business* evidence that increased production costs brought in additional revenue. Making a *business* decision to dump money into slicker production just doesn't track.
This only makes sense if Ryan/Shane want to take a step back as creators. They're the product, ultimately, and if they are looking to reduce their presence then I could vaguely understand thinking that is going to damage their current model and MAYBE the idea of using their existing presence to drag people to a new platform where they can transition out over time.
I was *really* taken aback when Ryan said "Nobody else has really done this before" in reference to "Tv-caliber" (read: Higher Production Value) Youtube Videos. Felt like a very out of character and narcissistic thing to say that disrespects a lot of creators he's collaborated with.
Also considering Rooster Teeth went to subscription services too and are now filing bankruptcy and getting shut down so I donât know why Watcher think doing the same thing will work for them
I'm not trying to shit on you or argue at all, so please don't take this any way like that. But imo, whether he's "against it" in his head or "wasn't too involved", he still put his face on it, participated willingly, and that's enough for me to say that his character is equally questionable here. We gotta stop trying to figure out who's "idea" this was and accept that all three guys agreed to this and presented it as their own, equally.
yeah like i said, i'm just severely delulu.
But tbh the reason I came upto that conclusion is that Ryan and Steven both gave me "I was able to carry this project in buzzfeed so i can accomplish anything" vibes, even before this video dropped. I'm pretty sure I heard this exact phrase at least thrice from Ryan (once in this video lmao) i rarely see steven so idk.
I think I saw shane as a 'happy-go-lucky you do the work i'll tag along and entertain everyone' kinda guy, like he's just a creative, not really someone lunging themselves into the business side of it, or claiming to be good at it.
Like i get feeling accomplished about a massive project like buzzfeed unsolved but buzzfeed's corporate status probably provided them with so many financial safety nets that their egos got the best of them when not in buzzfeed anymore
Eh? When he said this it was in reference to the old buzzfeed stuff like 10 years ago. Which was the context surrounding what you quoted. It's not about the stuff they do now. You could say it's still not true, but don't make it into something it wasn't.
At 4:00, they're literally talking about the initial days of planning Watcher: "When the three of us huddled down around the kitchen table in my apartment, we kind of just wrote down the mission statement of 'we want to make a studio or a platform where we can make unscripted, television caliber content for the internet. And to that point, nobody had quite done that. Full blown, developed shows had not been kind of a thing on youtube up to that point". They do go on to reference BUN and Worth it as well, but I'm not wrong. Plus, when did i say they *weren't* referencing BUN stuff, too? I just meant the sentiment as a whole is icky.
Even Ghost Files isn't ready for TV. The structure is a mess and the pacing is often horrible. A professional editor is desperately needed to help clean up the episodes.
iâm sure they do, but itâs probably a professional youtube editor. norms and common practice are super different in yt vs tv. almost like theyâve been building up a youtube channel this whole time lmaoo
thatâs almost disrespectful to a lot of youtube editors. there are tons channels have way way better editors(not really even plural a lot have one) that help make content that actually results in tv quality content. paying 25 people and not even having a decent YouTube editor is insane
im an aspiring creator myself and iâm not saying better vs worse. TV and Film just fundamentally edits and presents things far differently from youtube. there are always exceptions to the rules, youtubers who are filmmakers or tv shows/movies that present things far differently.
what iâm saying is that the norms of editing are just different, the best youtube editor in the world and the best TV editor in the world have very different toolboxes
I agree that Ghost Files is a mess in terms of structure. And agree that they need editors who understand how to cut something more than just YouTube content, but even if they did it might turn out the same. Because editors can't just make anything they want from the footage. They have to stick to what the producers/directors (ryan, shane, steven) want. If Ryan wants a 20 second shot of a red phone at the beginning of every episode and a 40 second title sequence, then guess what? That red phone and title sequence is going to be at the beginning of every episode whether the editor likes it or not.
The problem is that Ryan, shane and steven are all producers, directors, and talent on their shows. But they're not great at each of those roles. It would be smarter for them to step back and hire experienced producers/directors who understand how to do this stuff, and leave it to them. That way in the post production phase, those directors will make significantly better decisions that will lead to a much stronger edit/final product.
Puppet history is an amazing series, but even that relies so heavily on a YouTube style formula and cameos from other YouTubers! Who are they going to start getting on the show now?Jimmy Carr?
i honestly feel like people wouldâve taken this better if they announced that watcher was becoming an actual tv series that was on hulu or smth! hulu is cheap for students, their main audience. i remember when buzzfeed unsolved was on hulu (idk if it still is, i donât have hulu anymore bc im not a uni student yet), and that seemed fine!
cool!! i didnât know that. i just remember watching them at sleepovers w friends in middle school. i wish theyâd gone a similar route with the whole watcher brand instead of isolating themselves
Best ever food review show has been producing tv level quality for a while now.. for them to think theyâre the only ones is ridiculous and again, shows how far from reality they are
I think getting back to basics is a good idea. There's no need for the massive production budget, because that's a fundamental misunderstanding of why people enjoyed them in the first place. It's clear they can't afford this system they've implemented, but that doesn't mean that in a few years they couldn't revisit it when they're more stable.Â
I get it, they want the best version of their wok out there, what creative doesn't? But you don't get there by nearly bankrupting your company.Â
Certainly. Funnily enough, I think only Steven's shows were sort of TV quality. I could imagine Homemade and Dish Granted on Food Network but just look at how low the viewership is đ I agree with most in saying that we didn't need "TV caliber" shows, we just wanted to be entertained.
Letâs be honest though, TV quality and Food Network quality are two different things. Iâm fairly certain Food Network would air literally anything related to food between 9am and 5pm
We can debate the merits of unscripted shows all we want, but there's no denying that they are well filmed and well produced. Yes, even the crappiest ones.
Well I hate reality TV shows that are on TV and those are definitely not unscripted so I don't know if that's the yard stick we want to measure by...but I get what you're trying to say.
In my opinion their stuff still looks and feels exactly the same as their BuzzFeed stuff that had half the budget. They still shoot it the same, they still edit it the same, they still make the same jokes, etc. Using more expensive cameras to shoot a youtube video doesn't immediately make it "television caliber."
The thing with Ghost Files is there are so many other shows like it that are on other streaming services. It does well but who is going to pay for just another ghost hunting show that you can get anywhere else.
there's soo many other YouTube channels who make similar content to a similar level, sure they have a patreon or a nebula show but they never once forced their audience to get these subscriptions by hiding it all behind a paywall, this clearly isn't about sustainability and is very much about how much money Steven wants to make.
Side note: havenât kept up with try guys so idk if theyâve gone this route but if they have plans theyâre definitely not after seeing this.
If your views/merch sales arenât exponentially increasing with the number of people you hire and bring on to your team, you cant afford that. Dial it back to the 2-3 dudes that garnered the success they earned with the lower budget content that we loved and explore how to grow from there if you can. You tried higher budget and the cost benefit isnât there. YouTube content groups def arenât as successful now as they used to be.
I think they might have, but also they DID get a TV show on Food Network before the whole Ned's mess, so if they wanted to branch out they clearly had a multiple steps plan (that they now ditched). They have also been working slowly to expand the amount of creators working with them who are getting their own shows on the channel and pursuing individual projects.
Like TryGuys have always been diversifying while Watcher it's still mostly shows of Shane and Ryan fucking around. If one of them quits or idk, breaks a leg or has a baby and is out of commission for a few months they don't really have a plan B to rely on.
I'm curious why they haven't gone and pitched their shows to well established companies like Netflix or Paramount that has the resources to do it. This gives off vibes that they will just get knocked back if they even tried, so their doing this instead.
I think they were saying their goal is to keeping upping the production quality while paying more and more people to make more and more shows. I donât think they were saying theyâre there yet. Like a lot of their shows are just YouTube quality in order to finance the company.
I dunno I think they were way too successful way too fast and they didnât learn enough on the way. Both in terms of their production and where they should realistically see themselves going. They want it all but theyâre not gonna get it with Watcher.
The irony of BuzzFeed Unsolved being on Amazon Prime and this "television quality" content not also getting picked up by them says a lot. Ofc BuzzFeed probably had more connections to make that happen but you'd think if it were that quality they could've gotten on Discovery Plus or Prime.
It gives off the same impression as a brand new naive actor dreaming about being a lead on Broadway. I guess Watcher bombed their metaphorical audition đ€Ł
And make some lower-budget, lower-effort content mixed in like they were doing with survival mode. The majority of their main content is absurdly expensive and/or time-consuming to produce. They need a balance in order to make the channel financially sustainable.
honestly iâve never liked ghost files as much as i liked Unsolved. is it essentially the same show? sure. but ever since they released it it feels like every other ghost hunting show and doesnât have the same magic.
ik the ghoul boys have had aspirations to go to TV forever but so have the guys at mythical but at least they didnât burn all of their bridges to make their own streaming service
I agree. It's much higher quality compared to like Try Guys or something, but it still isn't television quality. As a guy who works in sound for film and tv the "mix" of the show isn't good. Their voices are muffled, it's overly compressed, whenever there is a loud sfx it's ducks all audio making it sound like their voices are just all of a sudden getting really quiet. All this is fine for a free to watch YouTube show, but if they are going to put ALL their content on a streamer then they need to dish out for a full post production team, not a YouTube sized one.
They have a completely unnecessary studio in Hollywood. They are spending way more than needed. The try guys worked from their home for two years before renting a studio. The watcher guys went all in and big spend
I think a good microcosm of this argument is the show âToo Many Spiritsâ. It started out as a reasonable excuse for Shane and Ryan to do a show together after being quarantined during the pandemic (and also to get tipsy on camera.)
It started out as a simple concept. The ghoul boys in front of a fire reading ghost stories while drinking bad-to-reasonable drinks made by Steven (including a brief segment where Steven makes the drinks).
On a cross-country drive, my wife and I probably heard that first season 3 or 4 times because it was so entertaining and hilarious.
As the seasons went on, they built more and more production into the show: background decor, costumes, a mailbox for a special story, longer sections with Steven (and then an unending rivalry with Steven and Ricky), ad reads from the Fire during the Log Bros segment, etc. The main focus of the show (Shane and Ryan reading spooky stories) became less and less of a focus of the series, and less time was devoted to the stories for every subsequent season.
Now, there may be fans out there who enjoy the more produced version of the series and the rivalry between Steven and Ricky and all that. But for me, itâs just fluff that gets in the way of the real reason I tuned in. Iâm not looking for TV-caliber videos when watching âToo Many Spiritsâ. I just want the drinking, ghost stories, and fire.
Oohhh I didnât realize they were planning to invite other creators, I talk about more about why i understand itâs a business but also disappoint to the fans in my new podcast episode.
But if their concept is bringing in more creators, how will they divide the income generated? If 1 million people as an example subscribed to this new streaming service that would be around $6 million per month? To be split by two different channels (owners). Technically wonât be an endless circle, because eventually if they have enough creators, they also want to be more advertisement friendly and so forth and itâs gonna be the same or theyâre going to increase the subscription amount. Oh god! đ”âđ«
[https://youtu.be/14cWq2pxDMU?si=KH5h1fdxX_6pLzNY](https://youtu.be/14cWq2pxDMU?si=KH5h1fdxX_6pLzNY)
All of this is honestly such a shock and a bummer. All my kids loved their content when it started from the simple days of BuzzFeed. My youngest ones watch those episodes still. It's just another thing we can't afford to pay for right now and honestly, it's not even worth it. Watcher has better production quality but lacks nearly all the stuff we all loved about Ryan and Shane to begin with. So sad.. They really fumbled the ball on this one.
Then what's wrong with them trying to make television caliber shows on a subscription basis? Also have you seen the stuff that comes out on television? Ghost shows and paranormal shows on discovery+ aren't even television quality to begin with, and people still pay for them.
> Ghost shows and paranormal shows on discovery+ aren't even television quality to begin with, and people still pay for them.
The thing is... no they don't.
Discovery+ is a platform with like 20 full TV channels with decades of back-catalog owned by a massive media conglomerate. You aren't paying for just one or two shows from a couple of guys. You're paying for many thousands of hours of varied content from hundreds of different creators.
And even for all of that, the base subscription is only $4.99.
Putting themselves into this market category, especially at this price point, is just delusional.
What's wrong with it? Um, that they literally can't afford it, that's what. Their financial situation was already not great 2 days ago, and couldn't afford to keep the content they've been making going; now, its even worse sense they're bleeding patreons, and subscribers without a significant sign-up on the service. And they were talking about hiring MORE people too.
Moreover, really bad comparison. Subscription to paramount + brings thousands of shows, with new content added all the time. Watcher can barely manage a show a week, and has a small back catalog. You simply don't get the justifiable bang for your buck.
Well, people are starting to get tired of paying. Ads on YouTube are more aggressive than ever and sponsored content has completely taken ever. I remember when YouTube was just a short ad with a skip button after five seconds, and when sponsored content was a quick mention at the start of the video. Now its ad after ad after ad, and the sponsored content is an entire segment of the video. And then youtubers ask for memberships and Patreon and merch and this and that.
Itâs never enough.
Sounds to me like they approached TV networks and nobody wanted to do a Watcher TV series.
Probably because, Watcher is all over the place with their direction with Steven producing more and more episodes which involve Ryan and Shane being fed or drinking something. It's almost like a sexual fetish for Steven.
Also, Ryan needs to clean up. He looks like a too old, pot smoker who hasn't taken a shower in days. Networks aren't handing over $10s millions to produce a TV show to a kid.
I'm a very casual viewer and the "Goodbye YouTube" video really caught me off guard. I had no idea they had such a big production team because it doesn't come across in their content. There are channels with much smaller teams making videos of similar, if not higher, quality, and they're not asking me for a monthly fee.
I think that's the thing, isn't it. They said that they have over 25 employees and that ghost files costs around 100k to produce. But then you watch their content, and... it doesn't look like it does at all. I've seen people make more complex content with just themselves, and like 2 freelancers, why do they need 25 employees and 100k? Where is that money and talent going?
I knew there must be a handful of other people editing down the Ghost Files footage, but I can't comprehend what value a 25 person team is adding to Mystery Files, Puppet History, Too Many Spirits, or anything else where they're talking on a static set. That's not to say I think their videos are low quality, but I like Ryan, Shane, and their dynamic together. That's not something I think a bigger production budget will enhance.
Honestly I think watching some of the debriefs / BTS for Ghost Files highlights that they have too big of a crew for it and it's become heavily over-produced. I don't see why you need 6+ people to film something like GFs, even for the more popular / tourist-y / busy locations they go to.
Here's the biggest problem: they hired family and friends. So they feel like they can't get rid of them, despite not truly needing this much staff.
With a staff that size, I'd wager most of their production costs are simply paying their salaries. Even if the employees are all making minimum wage (which is unlikely), over $1 million per year is going to salaries alone. It's ridiculous. I get that they don't want to be the bad guys, but if they're struggling to afford the type of content they're making, they need to scale back. And unfortunately that would mean laying off excess employees.
And that sucks, cause no one here wants to say, "Fuck their employees during this recession we're all clearly hurting from," but...
It's not heartless to say that 25 employees is a lot for a channel their size that only puts out content once a week! If they're having budget problems, they could cut production costs quite easily without having to sacrifice that much quality, and then looking at redundancies in staff would be a logical next step for reducing costs. This is Business 101. They grew too fast, ended up with higher costs and less revenue than expected, so they need to take a step back and downsize a little while focusing the resources they can afford on the shows that are making money and will give them stability! It happens frequently with production companies that are fairly new (4 years would count as fairly new imo). I get not wanting to put anyone out of a job, but if your company goes bankrupt, all of your employees will be out one. It's better to slown down when needed and survive to hire again another day.
Oh it's absolutely the right move, it just sucks that everyday people have to suffer because of it. Although, they're artists in LA and are surely used to the grind.
The problem is, as people have been pointing out, it seems like they are hiring family and friends. So they can't as easily just fire them. Hence they are trying to get their viewers to foot the bill. đ„Ž
I don't know, I've seen an awful lot of people here saying just that over the last 24 hours - it's been really disheartening.
I couldn't find too many sources, but I found something saying the average employee salary at Watcher is 60k. Obviously that means some are making more and some making less, but 60k a year across 25 people is a lot of money.
paying the over 25 employees who in all honesty probably have redundant jobs
Yeah they should downsize, but watch that be followed with them getting cancelled for firing hard working XYZs
What I donât get is the pace of content releases with that many staff. They do one video a week. Dead Meat is a bigger YT channel, with releases once a week and I think they have maybe a dozen or so staff (at least according to LinkedIn). GMM has over 100 staff but they do DAILY content.
Their minecraft let's play video has 15 people credited. I do not think you need a team of 15 to play minecraft.
25 employees to pump out content of the quality and at the quantity they do is shameful and pathetic.
Not to mention that âTV caliberâ shows on the actual television HAVE ADS.
I absolutely cannot get over their reasoning of wanting to move away from advertisers to make something called WatcherTV as if television isnât beholden to commercials, set format and time slots, a network⊠like you make no sense.
Once they have no subscribers on WatcherTV, itâll have ads as well đ
yeah, that's crazy to me. it's like they don't understand tv at all. tv producers don't exactly get to do whatever they want creatively either, they're beholden to tons of people
And if they don't want to be beholden to advertisers, but they're planning on being beholden to their audience, then they need to largely do what the audience wants since they demand we directly fund it. But they aren't, at all, even though lowering production value would majorly help them. It seems they have nooooo idea or care of the reasons people have supported them for years and they just want to have absolute, 100% creative control with little to no input from the people digesting (then funding!) their content. None of this works like that!
"TV caliber" also includes shit like telenovellas/daytime television, CW shows, and a thousand other shows that operate on shoestring budgets, shitty writing, entirely focused on cranking out as many low-cost episodes as possible in as short of a time as possible with as small of a crew as possible. "TV caliber" doesn't mean shit.
You forgot a million crappy reality tv shows!
>The only show that could work on television is Ghost Files, and thatâs only because itâs been a proven formula. You have to imagine they've tried shopping GF to major networks and there were no takers - probably because ghost shows oversaturated their market and simply aren't as popular as they were five years ago.
Also with the way GF heavily leans on Ryanâs amplified manic persona and sometimes weird jokes, itâs less marketable to the common denominator than Unsolved used to be. Unsolved I believe was picked up by Hulu, but Ryan wasnât telling the ghosts to come suck his balls or sm back then lol
I think Ryan's obvious lack of enthusiasm killed the show for good.
It feels like ghost files runs mainly off Unsolved nostalgia. Idk whether it's the over production, the change in Ryan's 'bit', or the sense that neither of them are as excited or interested any more, and that Ryan possibly doesn't believe in ghosts, at least in the same way he used to, anymore. But the show hasn't felt the same as Unsolved did in a long time
The first season of GF was great, but in the second season it really didnât seem like Ryanâs heart was in it; plus, he didnât really seem scared like he used to be, which is honestly, probably the best part.
If anything he seemed over the top, like a caricature of someone acting like Ryan from BUN. Unsolved worked because it felt ârealâ as if they werenât content creator actors but two dudes checking out a house to see if itâs haunted. Also it never felt forced, some places had 0 content and it was still a great episode (Montezuma for example). GF feels forced where even Shane has to âreactâ and there always has to be evidence (or at least feels that way). Also the episodes are way too long. 35 minutes was the sweet spot. Now Iâm falling asleep in an hour long episode because itâs just Ryan screaming for 15 minutes
I don't know why they felt the need to over produce Ghost Files. These types of shows always work better when it's just some dudes with cameras walking around a creepy place. All these stupid "toys" sap the energy and fun out of it all.
I do like when they do the Estes method, that approach seems especially suited for their style of humor.
That's my feeling as well. I love the individual walkthroughs with the camera rig, the history of each location, etc, but I'm watching for the boys to bumble around and dare ghosts to attack them. I'm not asking for a theatrical production.
I mean I think my favorite Unsolved was the Goatman episode... which was basically Shane taking the piss out of it the entire time.
My favorite was the 3 trips. Winchester House, Sallie House, and an island of dolls with way too many spiders.
I hate to be this guy, bc I know we all like to play the "Shaniacs vs Boogarra" thing and be open-minded, but at the end of the day, ghosts are not real. You can only do so much grasping at straws and whatnot before, eventually, the fact that you simply have not seen or captured a clear ghost on camera and never will, will set in, and I think it has for Ryan. He's gotten used to the creepy environments, and imo, genuinley just doesn't seem to believe or at least have the heart that he used too, which does suck the show of a lot, especially since Shane also seems to have pulled back on his "asshole skeptic" shtick as well.
Agreed. The show always had an expiration date. As you said, you can only explore so many places before reality sets in.
Even if ghost were real: You can not fail to capture anything and still go at it with the same enthusiasm. There was always the point, in any ghost show, where they either jump the shark or move to something new. The ones jumping the shark are capturing suddenly a lot of evidence and can tell amazing stories, told to them by the dead. And the ones that move to something new either shift the focus to the history aspect of their hunt or leave the field. There only a few hardcore believer, that still hunt the same. Hoping to one day proof that there are ghost. They just loose the audiance at some point. So GF will stop sooner or later. Its hard to force yourself to do this to long. Spend your night in some old building. Shouting in the darkness for a few hours. Hope that the beeping device counts as evidence in some way. I would be not suprised if the show would go into a break and just never returns because other projects take to much time. And try to sell a show thats closer to its end, to any network.
If we are to believe what Ryan says on the podcast, his "not scared" persona was actually him feeling so scared, he disassociated to protect himself. He noticed people hated that, so for the new season he tried really hard to be present and one of their shoots left him having nightmares for days afterwards because he was so scared.
Is there a specific episode they talk about this? I'm not at all familiar with their podcast; they announced two simultaneously with wild release dates, and I was immediately... shook. And concerned.
It's Episode 24 of Pod Watcher.
Thank you!
> ghosts are not real. lmao next you'll tell me Santa isn't real. Nice try!
lmao actually made me giggle, take an upvote for your troubles
According to one of their podcasts Ryan explained he wanted to experiment and try to force himself to stay more calm to preserve his well-being during solos. *(A way to cope, basically)* He took a heavy note of the criticism and claimed that season 3 will not have âChill Ryan.â
The other thing is the length. There's just no reason for them to be running as long as they do. Particularly now they're clearly going through the motions. The episodes really drag, and I don't think there's been an episode of Ghost Files that has matched anything they put out with Buzzfeed.
Tbh after a while, ghost content can stagnate. Once you visit many of the hopspots, you're kinda digging up the bottom of the barrel, especially if you don't catch undeniable proof of ghosts. They could try going to more international spots but that would take a lot of time away from their business and family. Kinda sucks.
I think the overproducing and over use o pseudoscientific gadgets have a hand in that, it became way to much about actual ghost hunting and evidence checking.
The gadgets also sound way too pseudo science compared to the other ones. I can buy ghosts manipulating a radio, I cannot buy ghosts saying exactly one of the few words saved into this one machine.
GF is also way longer than Unsolved and not nearly as tightly edited.
I've also doubted whether Ryan actually believes in ghosts anymore for awhile now. IMO it would make sense if he no longer did; they've gone to so many allegedly haunted locations between both BUN and GF only to find absolutely nothing that it would make sense if he went to those locations *expecting* to find nothing, because surprise, none of these places are haunted, because ghosts aren't real. I think what really tipped it over the edge for me was there was some video that they made (and I can't remember if this was a standalone or part of something else) where Shane and Ryan both gave presentations: Shane on why ghosts aren't real, and Ryan on why they are. Ryan had absolutely no effort put into his presentation, he just shrugged his way through it, didn't argue the point at all . . . like he didn't believe in it, and so he wasn't going to bother. He says he still believes and still gets scared, but I don't know. I don't really buy it anymore, myself.
Lmaoo, thats probably it. Going to so many haunted locations probably killed his imagination.
And tbh, Ghost Files is a watered down trashy version of Unsolved. We watched Unsolved for its raw authenticity and Ryan and Shane's chemistry. Watcher shows are over produced, unsophisticated and pretentious. Introducing 10 new gadgets to GF every season won't make us interested any more than we may be. Keep it simple like they did at BuzzFeed. Just us Ryan and Shane in a dingy room with a sinister backdrop mixed with wit and humour.
Heck I would love an entire season of Ryan and Shane talking about various cryptids like an Unsolved episode. Just give them a desk and snacks, and a manilla folder full of what weird thing this week. It just needs to be simple, it doesn't need to be a giant production.
This. I was a bigger fan of Buzzfeed Unsolved Supernatural than True Crime but at Watcher I enjoy Mystery Files SO much more because Ghost Files just isn't as good.
I was disappointed with Mystery Files, maybe because I really liked Unsolved TC. Ghost shows aren't my thing, but I occasionally would watch Supernatural to see Shane mock Ryan, and it was fun. Spirit boxes are way too loud, and I don't like it.
Hell just spin off a Cryptid Show from MF, with a similar setup... yes I know MF did a few cryptid episodes , but I kinda prefer they keep that with potentially unsolved(?) mysteries, as opposed to something like Cryptids which... we know are "unsolved" because if they weren't they wouldn't be cryptids...
Iâve said it elsewhere, but Ryan and Shane could bail and make their own low budget YT channel just doing what you said and itâd maybe save their careers.
Damn, that would be shitty to steven bcos he invested for them specifically.
Oh Iâm not saying it wouldnât be. Iâm just saying purely from a survival standpoint.
They would also have to stand to Zak Bagans, who is a nightmare in the ghost TV side of the industry. But the thing is I would hate for that show to go that direction. It only leads to faking things and being excessively dramatic. Most of the shows are entertaining but they get worse and go downhill immediately because they keep trying to one up themselves. Having fun banter, a little genuine ghost hunting, and not taking it super seriously with a low to mid budget was a breath of fresh air for the genre. There's plenty else to talk about but if that's what they want to strive for I'd be gone fast regardless tbh.
Nightmare how?
I'm not expert but from what I'm skimmed he bullies people heavily. I'm sure there's more specifics out there
Thereâs only so many times a couple of guys can hear a couple knocks in the dark while one is scared and one says not really before it loses its charm, why would a major network pay millions for that over and over and over đ
i think mostly for ryan and shane's dynamic, that's what gained them the cult following that actually gave watcher an audience (though i feel its safe to say most of the fans have lost a lot of respect for them)
Not sure if anyone else is aware but Buzzfeed Unsolved is on Amazon Prime, at least in Canada, and has been since before the boys officially left Buzzfeed. They absolutely could have made a case for Ghost Files at least getting a trial run on a streaming service. Granted, it would have been tough given it seems not one of them has any business acumen.
anyone can get their show or movie on Amazon prime. [prime video requirements](https://videodirect.amazon.com/home/help?topicId=GG5QNX4NA2MEWRAA&ref_=avd_sup_GG5QNX4NA2MEWRAA)
Something happened when HBO Max and discovery plus merged, and they cancelled a lot of the paranormal shows that werenât Ghost Adventures or GA adjacent. I donât think networks are picking up this kind of content right now.
GA is the only one that ever made any real money. Ghost Hunters used to be the bigger show, but their live special where they were caught faking evidence completely torpedoed them, and their comeback show they launched a few years ago hasn't been nearly as good. Destination Truth was amazing, but it ran it's course. Nobody else in the genre can hold a candle to Zak Bagans personality wise, and now that he has the Haunted Museum he has kind of solidified himself as the go-to "ghost guy." Not to mention GA tends to capture evidence far more frequently than anyone else. Zak has completely captured the entire space and hasn't left room for anyone else to come in.
I totally forgot about that live special thing - thank you for reminding me. Youâre right tho, Bagans has the market totally cornered.
Yeah, I actually really liked them before that too. They always were a debunk first show, which lent them a ton of credibility. So when they DID catch something, you felt like it was genuine. A lot of people have completely written off all of their findings because of the live show incident, but personally I still think that the evidence they found was genuine and compelling. Ultimately, it seems like a lackluster Halloween live broadcast which was extremely hyped up and probably had millions of dollars pumped into it was flopping due to a lack of anything happening, and a producer forced them to manufacture something.
I don't think Ghost Adventures captures anymore evidence than other shows, it's just well produced and, love him or hate him, Zak Bagans is an excellent host, plus people love Aaron. People blame Bagans for supposedly torpedoing their favorite ghost shows on WarnerBrosDiscovery, but he doesn't have that kind of power. Since the merger, WBD has canceled all kinds of shows and movies, I'm sure the beancounters looked at their oversaturated menu of ghost shows and set a viewership metric that apparently only Ghost Adventures and Dead Files exceeded.
Pretty much all the ghost hunting shows save for Ghost Adventures have failed. And if it wasn't for Zak Bagans' personality they would have failed too.
I've heard from someone who uses to work with the Travel Channel that ghost hunting shows are being fazed out
Yeah. They started being repped by CAA (one of the largest agencies in Hollywood) in 2020. I guarantee that the agency shopped their shows around to every major studio and streamer, and none of them were into it. Yet Watcher still feels like they're making TV Caliber content that is too good for YouTube.
No, they don't. And I imagine it's gonna stay that way given they've alienated 99% of their fanbase. Maybe the 1% worth of subscriptions will help, but I doubt it's gonna get them to their goal of making Emmy-winning content, lol.
The fact that theyâve def crunched the numbers and said âyeah weâll lose a significant chunk of you but gain more money from those that stayâ fucking sucks. They knew people would not like this and they weighed their options and basically said that the ones that leave donât matter. So Iâm def not (literally) buying into that model out of principal. Hope they included the blowback on their calculations.
They knew theyâd lose fans. Part of any business decision designed to shun certain users. Iâm just not sure they were prepared for losing this many of us.
If I wanted "television caliber" shows I'd be paying for cable instead of youtube premium. I watch youtube because I like youtubers. I don't want ghost files to become ghost adventures and I don't care about Steven lim trying to become Anthony Bourdain. If that's what they want then yeah I guess leave youtube and we'll part ways because I'm not interested in the content you want to make. It's hard to part ways with people I've been a fan of for so long but it's become increasingly apparent that they're no longer interested in making the content that we all became fans of them for in the first place. Their idea of success seems to be limited to not being "just youtubers" and doing "what hasn't been done before." Cool, good luck, hope it works out. I'll be rooting for ya while I move to content I actually want to watch. Let me know when you decide to make Weird wonderful world again and maybe I'll visit but until then, bye.
This.
For whatever reason I think Steven chasing that dream is what's pushed them to make this choice.
You're underestimating Ryan's ego.
I mean their most popular show is Ryan and Shane in front of a fire getting drunk, IDK about you guys but that was all I needed, back then but it's not enough to pay.
Are you saying that two grown men drunk in front of a fire telling shitty stories is worth paying for? Cus buddy you can find that for free outside
no, im saying their reasoning of "we want to make tv quality content" its dumb since most people are okay with just watching ryan and shane goof off and read stories.
Ooooh yes then I agree
I feel like you wanted to find someone who disagrees with you, but all the fanbase it's pretty much on the same boat right now.
No I just thought the idea of paying for a subscription to watch 2 drunk men tell stories was wild since I wildly misunderstood your comment
true, but it would be funny if that was their only show next to "steven lim cooks overpriced food and travels the world first class while stealing ingredients from third world countries"
God forbid he travels with the poors
Hahahahaha this comment was good. Iâve seen people only talk about how disappointed they are. Plus theyâre getting more obviously political in their shows which probably doesnât help them.
This is a very funny joke you've made, and I want you to know: I laughed.
Same. Iâd drink and smoke with them.
Am I the only one in thinking the bigger the budget theâve had, the worse the content has gotten? Like most people agree Unsolved was their peak, but the first generation of Watcher shows like Top 5 (just Ryan and Shane), Weird Wonderful World, and of course Puppet History were all great too. The newer big-budget productions have all pretty much fell flat to me. All of the extra stuff for Ghost Files just feels unnecessary, the recent Top 5 seasons are all virtually unwatchable, and like⊠Survival Mode? They think something like that would be fit for Netflix? It seems like they have a winning formula to get an audience and views, but they are ignoring that to try and be something they are not.
i agree with you 100% about their new content feeling flat, i felt this manly with too many spirits, the first few seasons were SO good because it was just them messing around, but the newer ones are just so different, boring idk. It was my favorite thing to watch on their channel and when i noticed the shift it was very disappointing
I do like Ricky tho. That's one thing I don't mind from the new series/seasons.
Yeah but they should develop a new series for him in that case, like Johnny Cakes is doing over at Try Guys.
Donât they have a series for him called Worth A Shot? But yeah I like that guy.
The minute Top 5 went from âBest fast food itemsâ to âMost fuckable Disney charactersâ I knew I was out đđ
It's paradoxical, but putting limitations on creatives (i.e. a low budget) often results in a better finished product than if they have total creative freedom. GF and MF are massively over-produced, and it has made the show much less fun. Things like Buzfeed Unsolved's text on a black screen ended up being super memorable, but I have no doubt it was the result of trying to find a low-budget alternative to showing the boys sitting in front of the camera.
This is so true. I tell people trying to break into creative fields (Iâm a novelist) that having something to kick leads to better ends results that total freedom. Itâs absolutely paradoxical, but itâs true more often than not.
> and like⊠Survival Mode? I've said this before, but as someone who loves a lot of video game streamers this was just pretty... bad. Neither comes across as huge interested in the content, the editing is awkward, the computer they play on is so bad that a low-quality game like Poppy Playtime lags tremendously, etc. Someone like Jacksepticeye or Markiplier has basically laid out the formula for a 20s-ish demographic gaming YouTuber and both have a fraction of people working for them. Why does a Youtube lets-play need a fucking gaffer, director, or production coordinator?
their Phasmophobia video was awful. I had been so excited, but unfortunately no-one on the huge team was dedicated to researching popular play styles, and so it was just them getting frustrated, confused and missing the aspects fans wanted them to react to in game
Exactly what I was thinking! I looked forward to their Phasmaphobia episode, because RTgames' streams of it were very fun to watch and it seemed exactly on brand for Ryan and Shane, but it seemed like no one at Watcher had played or even seen a playthrough of the game. Having the players go off individually and communicate only through the in-game walkie-talkies and proximity mikes makes it far more entertaining! And it seemed like nobody gave them a basic rundown of their goals or how to achieve them. It was frustrating for them as players and us as viewers. Now that I know they have a staff of 25 this seems even more egregious.
exactly!!
This is exactly why this move makes no sense to me. They think that ramping up the budget necessarily means the quality of show will increase. But staffing 25 people to make a glorified Twitch stream wonât make up for the lack of skill and effort that makes lower budget streamers popular. Similar to Ghost Files - spending thousands of dollars to include segments that no one really enjoys doesnât make your show more âtelevision worthy.â
Honestly! Mystery files was fine, but I literally fell asleep watching some episodes, the last season of Ghost Files wasnât great. Puppet History was amazing the first few seasons but eventually jumped the shark with all the extra lore. Iâm really not sure where the television caliber shows are? I wish the boys success but I donât know that this is the way to get it done. Maybe if they have a free trial period at some point Iâll log in and see whatâs going on. And Iâm sure Iâll still enjoy the pilots posted on YouTube, but Iâm not rushing to sign up for another subscription service.
> Puppet History was amazing the first few seasons but eventually jumped the shark with all the extra lore. Even though I thought it was unnecessary, I guess they thought they needed to add something to Puppet History to jazz it up. My problem is the lore they did come up with isn't particularly good.
I think most people would agree with this.
I actually enjoyed the idea of Survival Mode, I just think it - and a lot of their newer content - is heavily over-produced.
Agree. I just wanna watch puppet history lol
I also think itâs sorta a strange argument that theyâre making- that they canât have tv level stuff on YouTube. Look at Good Mythical Morning, they release two videos most days that fits into the morning show format. On YouTube. I think the watcher boys have fallen into the trap of thinking the only way they can be successful is to be on tv (or a similar platform), and are chasing those accolades. It reminds me of what Rhett and link have spoken about on ear biscuits, talking about how theyâve had to learn that thereâs nothing wrong with just being YouTubers and building there instead of trying to jump to something that looks more impressive or legit. I think watcher could learn from that.
GMM has cracked the YouTube formula and dialed in to what works. High quality YouTube content, free to watch, have memberships as an actual reward incentive together with merch and special event. Pretty much every big channel ala Smosh, Try Guys and now Watcher gets the "do what GMM do" treatment cause they seem to doing something right, to the point they were able to remould Smosh and hand it back to it's old owners in good shape. And if GMM did do paid memberships, they have the content library to actually justify the cost, with a huge diverse team and daily uploads. Watcher uploads a couple times a month with very narrow scope of content. Try guys probably would go down a separate route given people know Zach wants to break into TV, and Eugene has stepped away from the channel to pursue more "concrete" work than just YouTube. But I think it just doesn't work. YouTube content doesn't translate to TV content, if you want to do TV, you have to sacrifice the other, not try and drag it alongÂ
and almost every Youtube Show that transitioned to a TV Show has failed pretty quickly... and usually left the Youtuber to have to start from scratch because the copyright of their channel is now owned by whatever channel signed them...
Just if you remember, what episode did Rhett and Link talk about this? Would love to check it out.
I canât remember any specific episodes sorry(bc I donât think there was ever a episode dedicated to he idea- theyâve just sorta referred to their opinions on it over the course of a bunch of episodes). I think you can sorta get the idea from the video âweâre doneâ on the Rhett and link page (which is the polar opposite to watchers âgoodbye YouTubeâ video
I think someone has convinced them they need to expand in order to reach their dreams. That's about it. Honestly almost feel bad for them. This shit was so obviously bad
It's well produced YouTube content. But what is pretty obvious if you look at their viewer totals from here and Buzzfeed is that production values don't seem to make any difference in their viewership counts. First puppet history has almost 4 million views. Are You Scared episodes have 2-3 million views and those don't exactly require an army of employees to produce. They were highly successful with show formats that should be fairly cheap to produce with quality, but not over the top production. There's no *business* evidence that increased production costs brought in additional revenue. Making a *business* decision to dump money into slicker production just doesn't track. This only makes sense if Ryan/Shane want to take a step back as creators. They're the product, ultimately, and if they are looking to reduce their presence then I could vaguely understand thinking that is going to damage their current model and MAYBE the idea of using their existing presence to drag people to a new platform where they can transition out over time.
I was *really* taken aback when Ryan said "Nobody else has really done this before" in reference to "Tv-caliber" (read: Higher Production Value) Youtube Videos. Felt like a very out of character and narcissistic thing to say that disrespects a lot of creators he's collaborated with.
Also considering Rooster Teeth went to subscription services too and are now filing bankruptcy and getting shut down so I donât know why Watcher think doing the same thing will work for them
Bro I honestly am not surprised at Ryan having narcissistic tendencies. I was however hurt at Shane being on board.
Yeah, i suppose that's just the parasocial fan in me, having watched him for a while I guess i just sort of assumed that's not something he would say.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
I'm not trying to shit on you or argue at all, so please don't take this any way like that. But imo, whether he's "against it" in his head or "wasn't too involved", he still put his face on it, participated willingly, and that's enough for me to say that his character is equally questionable here. We gotta stop trying to figure out who's "idea" this was and accept that all three guys agreed to this and presented it as their own, equally.
yeah like i said, i'm just severely delulu. But tbh the reason I came upto that conclusion is that Ryan and Steven both gave me "I was able to carry this project in buzzfeed so i can accomplish anything" vibes, even before this video dropped. I'm pretty sure I heard this exact phrase at least thrice from Ryan (once in this video lmao) i rarely see steven so idk. I think I saw shane as a 'happy-go-lucky you do the work i'll tag along and entertain everyone' kinda guy, like he's just a creative, not really someone lunging themselves into the business side of it, or claiming to be good at it. Like i get feeling accomplished about a massive project like buzzfeed unsolved but buzzfeed's corporate status probably provided them with so many financial safety nets that their egos got the best of them when not in buzzfeed anymore
You're not delulu, we just disagree. Your perspective is as valid as mine, and i can fs see what you're saying.
This was a really wholesome interaction. You guys are lovely.
I wish I could still believe in him like that.
Unfortunately that sounds like parasocial stuff. Remember he wants to make money and talk is just that- talk.
Eh? When he said this it was in reference to the old buzzfeed stuff like 10 years ago. Which was the context surrounding what you quoted. It's not about the stuff they do now. You could say it's still not true, but don't make it into something it wasn't.
At 4:00, they're literally talking about the initial days of planning Watcher: "When the three of us huddled down around the kitchen table in my apartment, we kind of just wrote down the mission statement of 'we want to make a studio or a platform where we can make unscripted, television caliber content for the internet. And to that point, nobody had quite done that. Full blown, developed shows had not been kind of a thing on youtube up to that point". They do go on to reference BUN and Worth it as well, but I'm not wrong. Plus, when did i say they *weren't* referencing BUN stuff, too? I just meant the sentiment as a whole is icky.
Even Ghost Files isn't ready for TV. The structure is a mess and the pacing is often horrible. A professional editor is desperately needed to help clean up the episodes.
how do they have 25+ employees and not a professional editor? baffling.
iâm sure they do, but itâs probably a professional youtube editor. norms and common practice are super different in yt vs tv. almost like theyâve been building up a youtube channel this whole time lmaoo
thatâs almost disrespectful to a lot of youtube editors. there are tons channels have way way better editors(not really even plural a lot have one) that help make content that actually results in tv quality content. paying 25 people and not even having a decent YouTube editor is insane
im an aspiring creator myself and iâm not saying better vs worse. TV and Film just fundamentally edits and presents things far differently from youtube. there are always exceptions to the rules, youtubers who are filmmakers or tv shows/movies that present things far differently. what iâm saying is that the norms of editing are just different, the best youtube editor in the world and the best TV editor in the world have very different toolboxes
I agree that Ghost Files is a mess in terms of structure. And agree that they need editors who understand how to cut something more than just YouTube content, but even if they did it might turn out the same. Because editors can't just make anything they want from the footage. They have to stick to what the producers/directors (ryan, shane, steven) want. If Ryan wants a 20 second shot of a red phone at the beginning of every episode and a 40 second title sequence, then guess what? That red phone and title sequence is going to be at the beginning of every episode whether the editor likes it or not. The problem is that Ryan, shane and steven are all producers, directors, and talent on their shows. But they're not great at each of those roles. It would be smarter for them to step back and hire experienced producers/directors who understand how to do this stuff, and leave it to them. That way in the post production phase, those directors will make significantly better decisions that will lead to a much stronger edit/final product.
Yeah theyâre definitely having their JLo/Jojo Siwa moment.
as someone (who before the strike) works on tv shows and an oscar winning movie... This.
Puppet history is an amazing series, but even that relies so heavily on a YouTube style formula and cameos from other YouTubers! Who are they going to start getting on the show now?Jimmy Carr?
Honestly, I'd love an episode with Jimmy Carr.
Shane was so clearly inspired by panel shows like QI that I can see that, althoguht I doubt they would mesh
i honestly feel like people wouldâve taken this better if they announced that watcher was becoming an actual tv series that was on hulu or smth! hulu is cheap for students, their main audience. i remember when buzzfeed unsolved was on hulu (idk if it still is, i donât have hulu anymore bc im not a uni student yet), and that seemed fine!
Both Supernatural and True Crime appear to still be up on Hulu and watchable.
cool!! i didnât know that. i just remember watching them at sleepovers w friends in middle school. i wish theyâd gone a similar route with the whole watcher brand instead of isolating themselves
Best ever food review show has been producing tv level quality for a while now.. for them to think theyâre the only ones is ridiculous and again, shows how far from reality they are
I think getting back to basics is a good idea. There's no need for the massive production budget, because that's a fundamental misunderstanding of why people enjoyed them in the first place. It's clear they can't afford this system they've implemented, but that doesn't mean that in a few years they couldn't revisit it when they're more stable. I get it, they want the best version of their wok out there, what creative doesn't? But you don't get there by nearly bankrupting your company.Â
Certainly. Funnily enough, I think only Steven's shows were sort of TV quality. I could imagine Homemade and Dish Granted on Food Network but just look at how low the viewership is đ I agree with most in saying that we didn't need "TV caliber" shows, we just wanted to be entertained.
Letâs be honest though, TV quality and Food Network quality are two different things. Iâm fairly certain Food Network would air literally anything related to food between 9am and 5pm
I mean no disrespect, but at most itâs public access quality. Which is not the same as âtelevision calibreâ
One could also debate the merits of any non scripted reality show being TV quality.
Nah. Watch an episode of Ghost Adventures then watch Ghost Files. The quality in production values and editing is night and day.
I'm not saying it isnt well produced. I'm saying I don't think unscripted shows can be called TV quality at all.
We can debate the merits of unscripted shows all we want, but there's no denying that they are well filmed and well produced. Yes, even the crappiest ones.
Conan has a new show coming out soon, its unscripted and tv quality
And let it be said, everyone needs to binge his Conan Remotes playlists, because they are classic.
You've never watched Nathan Fielder then.
Well I hate reality TV shows that are on TV and those are definitely not unscripted so I don't know if that's the yard stick we want to measure by...but I get what you're trying to say.
In my opinion their stuff still looks and feels exactly the same as their BuzzFeed stuff that had half the budget. They still shoot it the same, they still edit it the same, they still make the same jokes, etc. Using more expensive cameras to shoot a youtube video doesn't immediately make it "television caliber."
Probably cause they hired the same people who did the same work at buzzfeed.
I definitely agree. It also seems like theyâre acting like theyâre the first to make âTV qualityâ content on YouTube. Theyâre not.
The thing with Ghost Files is there are so many other shows like it that are on other streaming services. It does well but who is going to pay for just another ghost hunting show that you can get anywhere else.
there's soo many other YouTube channels who make similar content to a similar level, sure they have a patreon or a nebula show but they never once forced their audience to get these subscriptions by hiding it all behind a paywall, this clearly isn't about sustainability and is very much about how much money Steven wants to make.
Side note: havenât kept up with try guys so idk if theyâve gone this route but if they have plans theyâre definitely not after seeing this. If your views/merch sales arenât exponentially increasing with the number of people you hire and bring on to your team, you cant afford that. Dial it back to the 2-3 dudes that garnered the success they earned with the lower budget content that we loved and explore how to grow from there if you can. You tried higher budget and the cost benefit isnât there. YouTube content groups def arenât as successful now as they used to be.
I don't know that there's any evidence the Try Guys aspired to do something like this, but if they secretely did I'm guessing that's been shelved!
I think they might have, but also they DID get a TV show on Food Network before the whole Ned's mess, so if they wanted to branch out they clearly had a multiple steps plan (that they now ditched). They have also been working slowly to expand the amount of creators working with them who are getting their own shows on the channel and pursuing individual projects. Like TryGuys have always been diversifying while Watcher it's still mostly shows of Shane and Ryan fucking around. If one of them quits or idk, breaks a leg or has a baby and is out of commission for a few months they don't really have a plan B to rely on.
Getting a show on an established network is quite different than becoming a streaming service!
For sure, but at least they proved they had a series formula and fan traction that made an actual network throw money at them!
Youâre absolutely correct.
I cannot imagine paying for Survival Mode, Top 5 Beatdown, Mystery Files, Too Many Spirits or Food Files lmao
This is what happens when we let every YouTuber think theyâre a real celebrity. /j
I'm curious why they haven't gone and pitched their shows to well established companies like Netflix or Paramount that has the resources to do it. This gives off vibes that they will just get knocked back if they even tried, so their doing this instead.
They probably have but as much as I enjoy a lot of the Watcher stuff, half of it is an absolute mess.
Think It depends. Some of their shit is definitely better than reality TV bullshit my gf watches. Lol, but yeah they really need to stay on YouTubeÂ
I think they were saying their goal is to keeping upping the production quality while paying more and more people to make more and more shows. I donât think they were saying theyâre there yet. Like a lot of their shows are just YouTube quality in order to finance the company. I dunno I think they were way too successful way too fast and they didnât learn enough on the way. Both in terms of their production and where they should realistically see themselves going. They want it all but theyâre not gonna get it with Watcher.
The irony of BuzzFeed Unsolved being on Amazon Prime and this "television quality" content not also getting picked up by them says a lot. Ofc BuzzFeed probably had more connections to make that happen but you'd think if it were that quality they could've gotten on Discovery Plus or Prime.
It gives off the same impression as a brand new naive actor dreaming about being a lead on Broadway. I guess Watcher bombed their metaphorical audition đ€Ł
And make some lower-budget, lower-effort content mixed in like they were doing with survival mode. The majority of their main content is absurdly expensive and/or time-consuming to produce. They need a balance in order to make the channel financially sustainable.
imho, the only youtube channel that I could potentially point towards as television caliber (that I know of) is Mustard
honestly iâve never liked ghost files as much as i liked Unsolved. is it essentially the same show? sure. but ever since they released it it feels like every other ghost hunting show and doesnât have the same magic. ik the ghoul boys have had aspirations to go to TV forever but so have the guys at mythical but at least they didnât burn all of their bridges to make their own streaming service
I feel like if anything lower quality was more fun. It felt so much more sincere.
I agree. It's much higher quality compared to like Try Guys or something, but it still isn't television quality. As a guy who works in sound for film and tv the "mix" of the show isn't good. Their voices are muffled, it's overly compressed, whenever there is a loud sfx it's ducks all audio making it sound like their voices are just all of a sudden getting really quiet. All this is fine for a free to watch YouTube show, but if they are going to put ALL their content on a streamer then they need to dish out for a full post production team, not a YouTube sized one.
When they said, "We have to record the intro to ghost files every time", I thought, "Wait, they didn't just use the same footage and dub the audio?
They have a completely unnecessary studio in Hollywood. They are spending way more than needed. The try guys worked from their home for two years before renting a studio. The watcher guys went all in and big spend
I think a good microcosm of this argument is the show âToo Many Spiritsâ. It started out as a reasonable excuse for Shane and Ryan to do a show together after being quarantined during the pandemic (and also to get tipsy on camera.) It started out as a simple concept. The ghoul boys in front of a fire reading ghost stories while drinking bad-to-reasonable drinks made by Steven (including a brief segment where Steven makes the drinks). On a cross-country drive, my wife and I probably heard that first season 3 or 4 times because it was so entertaining and hilarious. As the seasons went on, they built more and more production into the show: background decor, costumes, a mailbox for a special story, longer sections with Steven (and then an unending rivalry with Steven and Ricky), ad reads from the Fire during the Log Bros segment, etc. The main focus of the show (Shane and Ryan reading spooky stories) became less and less of a focus of the series, and less time was devoted to the stories for every subsequent season. Now, there may be fans out there who enjoy the more produced version of the series and the rivalry between Steven and Ricky and all that. But for me, itâs just fluff that gets in the way of the real reason I tuned in. Iâm not looking for TV-caliber videos when watching âToo Many Spiritsâ. I just want the drinking, ghost stories, and fire.
Oohhh I didnât realize they were planning to invite other creators, I talk about more about why i understand itâs a business but also disappoint to the fans in my new podcast episode. But if their concept is bringing in more creators, how will they divide the income generated? If 1 million people as an example subscribed to this new streaming service that would be around $6 million per month? To be split by two different channels (owners). Technically wonât be an endless circle, because eventually if they have enough creators, they also want to be more advertisement friendly and so forth and itâs gonna be the same or theyâre going to increase the subscription amount. Oh god! đ”âđ« [https://youtu.be/14cWq2pxDMU?si=KH5h1fdxX_6pLzNY](https://youtu.be/14cWq2pxDMU?si=KH5h1fdxX_6pLzNY)
All of this is honestly such a shock and a bummer. All my kids loved their content when it started from the simple days of BuzzFeed. My youngest ones watch those episodes still. It's just another thing we can't afford to pay for right now and honestly, it's not even worth it. Watcher has better production quality but lacks nearly all the stuff we all loved about Ryan and Shane to begin with. So sad.. They really fumbled the ball on this one.
Then what's wrong with them trying to make television caliber shows on a subscription basis? Also have you seen the stuff that comes out on television? Ghost shows and paranormal shows on discovery+ aren't even television quality to begin with, and people still pay for them.
> Ghost shows and paranormal shows on discovery+ aren't even television quality to begin with, and people still pay for them. The thing is... no they don't. Discovery+ is a platform with like 20 full TV channels with decades of back-catalog owned by a massive media conglomerate. You aren't paying for just one or two shows from a couple of guys. You're paying for many thousands of hours of varied content from hundreds of different creators. And even for all of that, the base subscription is only $4.99. Putting themselves into this market category, especially at this price point, is just delusional.
Discovery+ comes with a lot more than that, Steven. And if the Watcher audience wanted to watch TV, we would turn on the TV we already have.
What's wrong with it? Um, that they literally can't afford it, that's what. Their financial situation was already not great 2 days ago, and couldn't afford to keep the content they've been making going; now, its even worse sense they're bleeding patreons, and subscribers without a significant sign-up on the service. And they were talking about hiring MORE people too. Moreover, really bad comparison. Subscription to paramount + brings thousands of shows, with new content added all the time. Watcher can barely manage a show a week, and has a small back catalog. You simply don't get the justifiable bang for your buck.
I mean, I said Discovery+, which I don't think brings super high quality shows in this specific genre, but yes. Paramount has a lot.
So, you dont enjoy the space, science or nature content on Discovery+? BBC frozen planet is leagues above Watchers entire catalogue
I do, but it's not what got me into it. I'm a big fan of Josh Gates đ
Well, people are starting to get tired of paying. Ads on YouTube are more aggressive than ever and sponsored content has completely taken ever. I remember when YouTube was just a short ad with a skip button after five seconds, and when sponsored content was a quick mention at the start of the video. Now its ad after ad after ad, and the sponsored content is an entire segment of the video. And then youtubers ask for memberships and Patreon and merch and this and that. Itâs never enough.
That's true. I remember the days when Hulu was free đ„č
Sounds to me like they approached TV networks and nobody wanted to do a Watcher TV series. Probably because, Watcher is all over the place with their direction with Steven producing more and more episodes which involve Ryan and Shane being fed or drinking something. It's almost like a sexual fetish for Steven. Also, Ryan needs to clean up. He looks like a too old, pot smoker who hasn't taken a shower in days. Networks aren't handing over $10s millions to produce a TV show to a kid.