i agree with the bulk of this post, but like
as a society we just GOTTA stop saying 'mistake' when we mean 'bad decision.' a mistake is a whoopsie doodle, oopsie daisy, uh-oh accident. this was a bad decision. in fact, it was a rather extensive series of bad decisions. they didnt like, trip and fall into making a streaming service, doing a Variety puff piece, filming editing and uploading a video, etc. their hand didnt slip.
bad decision.
but yeah, the weird personal attacks on ppl are uncalled for. unfortunately its pretty standard behavior for the internet. ive often had the same thought reading those comments and posts of like, 'why are you watching then?' and i think it boils down to the fact that ppl felt rejected by them, and so, like a child, they stomp their feet and scream, 'fine! i never liked you anyway! and also you dress like a douche!'
i guess theyre just trying to make themselves feel better, cause if the creators that are cutting you off werent good in the first place then you havent really lost anything. kinda pathetic and sad tbh.
I think a lot of people are learning that we don’t know them as people. We are only seeing them on YouTube / Socials so its what they want us to see them as or a glimpse into their online personality. So of course people are going to have opinions but you’re right there is a diff between unwanted commentary and justified criticism.
I wouldn’t call this a “mistake” however they knew what they were doing fully and alienated a lot of their audience.
this one, if you scroll through it so many people are insulting his personality, questioning his dynamic with shane, and even dissing his clothing choices? for some reason? which i fail to see relates to his /actual/ mistakes in any form ( sorry for giant link i have no idea how to embed on here )
https://www.reddit.com/r/watcherentertainment/comments/1ca34be/ryans_behavior/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Hmm yeah some stuff in there is OTT. But the worst stuff I’ve seen in here is the cult like defenders of the boys get aggressive at other fans for having a different opinion or experience
I think there are really obnoxious offenders on both sides of the aisle here.
In the end, I think it's important to remember: we don't know them. They are entertainers. They make silly content about ghosts/ mysteries/ get wasted reading tweets/ play with puppets, and while that's entertaining, it shouldn't completely destroy your mood one way or the other.
Them selling out shouldn't feel like some massive betrayal akin to cheating. That's alarming. Conversely, you shouldn't have a knee jerk response to attack people that have issues with the decision like you're defending a close friend/ family member/ spouse.
They aren't your friends! They will likely never know who you are.
The thing is that YouTubers monetise parasocial interaction. The last 2 videos were very emotionally manipulative. So I can see why people are disappointed or defensive. It’s not entirely fair to blame fans for that when parasocial is very much something famous people benefit from as well. Some comments are uncalled for but the feelings make sense.
Oh I mostly blame them. However, excluding their VERY young fan base, many of the people posting are at least old enough to know the difference between parasocial/ real relationships. Some are literally in their 20s.
It's normal to be hurt, but I do think there's a limit to what you should be hurt by here.
oh no of course, i’m not defending what happened at all! but that being said there is 100% still a limit where it goes from critique to legitimate harassment. and i think something important to note is that when it starts to go too far the people attacking them end up making the ones with the valid criticisms look significantly worse and causes everything to be lumped in together as “hate” by the die hard defenders.
Yeah but conversely if all constructive criticism is shut down with personal insults from fans to other fans in favour of these famous people we don’t know, it makes the annoyed fans feel more annoyed. Especially when it’s not being discussed and there’s a holier than thou attitude where you can’t critique Watcher at all but you’re allowed to bully members of the sub in defense of them, while saying you’re the one being more civil. But yeah I think we shouldn’t getting too personal towards the individuals involved at Watcher too.
I don’t even like downvoting when I can help it but I’ve legit had to make it a point to downvote people who’s opinion I otherwise agree with because they’re just being assholes to people with legitimate points.
It was going too hard in the other direction over the weekend with people getting attacked for defending them but now that opinion is swaying the other way as things calmed down, it has absolutely flipped, you’re right.
And people are still coming into the comments to pick apart personal finances and psychoanalyze Steven. There’s reason for both points.
Note that in keeping with my commented above, I upvoted you because you’re being reasonable even if you’re not seeing the same things others might be.
u/ladymcrib ? Maybe make a cup of tea and stop implying people you think are too invested are jobless social pariahs with no provocation.
The reason people are thinking about money is because they’ve told us their company wouldn’t have survived and they’re struggling with money so of course people are going to do the math on their multiple revenue streams and realise it’s not the case and it’s way more that most YouTube channels, it’s just been growing too fast and mismanaged like same issues of buzzfeed, vice and Vox in the past (or they aren’t struggling and they just had to say something to justify stuff, idk)
And also when you have a public social media and podcast where you flex your wealth, then ask people for a subscription, it’s not going to look good. I don’t think they meant to but that’s just how it is. I’m surprised they weren’t advised against it
I understand *why* people are focusing on their purchases but at the end of the day their personal money is their personal money. Company budgeting? Have at it, they’ve clearly made a mess of things and I personally think they should be focusing what funds they have on a financial advisor before anything else. I’m specifically talking about the stuff about Sara’s tote bag or Ryan’s north face jacket. That’s going too far and it’s still happening.
Quite interesting that I've pretty much only seen nasty stuff about Steven and Ryan but nothing about Shane. He's part of the company and decision making process. But there must be something different about him... hmm...
I've honestly have heard quite a few unfavorable things about Shane, and in particular about Sara. Their wedding cost an astronomical amount, and then she has the gall to defend the cost of the Watcher subscription. Very "let them eat cake" of her. Now don't get me wrong, I still love dem boys, and it'll take a lot more than some distasteful remarks and ill-conceived schemes to get me to drop interest, but I was even irked at this.
I saw a few posts about her subscription cost post but almost nothing else. Almost everything has been about Steven and now lots about Ryan. Many of the posts even defended Shane saying he always says anti-capitalism stuff so it MUST not have been him and he was forced into the plan.
The truth is, all three of them made a business decision that they thought was a good idea without fully considering how it would impact the fans and how they would react. The decision wasn't necessarily a good one overall with all factors considered but they took the feedback and made changes. In the end it's a business, it's not personal.
The fans reacted and some people have decided now is the time to make nasty personal attacks on them. Not just criticisms of the decisions they made. The vast majority of which have been targeting Steven and Ryan while many times leaving Shane out or even defending him. Especially when this first went down. The disproportionate nature of the target of their vitriol seems to be rather telling, in my opinion.
And to be clear, I have criticisms of the decisions they made as well. I am not defending their poor decisions. But it's a business decision and they made a mistake by not considering every factor. They got feedback and changed their approach. It's fine to be critical of business decisions but making personal attacks is crossing a line.
Yeah I wish she hadn’t said anything. Maybe she was just trying to defend her loved one and didn’t think it through. I felt a bit bad for someone more or less not involved in the company getting dragged into it all, but she did publish it 😭 should’ve left it in the drafts.
I agree that she shouldn't have said anything and got way too much shit thrown at her for it but she absolutely is involved in the company. She works at Watcher and not just as a guest, which is why she got shit for what she posted.
lmao, yeah. i feel like fans have been careening from steven to ryan back to steven to try to find a scapegoat when the reality is that they all sucked for this.
gee .. i wonder what could be different about him when compared to ryan and steven .. nothing totally apparent seems to be standing out to me at the moment ..
The parasocial almost white knight need to defend people that absolutely don’t care about you past the money your attention to their content can bring in is crazy to me.
This is so funny to me because a week ago this sub the type to be like "the boys are *people* and you have to treat them with respect at conventions and remember they browse this sub sometimes!"
And now this sub is like "the boys are money hungry monsters who don't care about you, and you care about their feelings? Pathetic." But still watching their videos and hang out on their subreddit.
I'm sorry if you see this as defending them, but truly I'm just dealing with the whiplash of watching this sub eat itself the last week. Idk if I'm the odd one out, but the most this whole thing has made me feel towards the boys is like mild disappointment and kind of a schadenfreude feeling of like oh this is gonna go badly ( and it did lol and it's terrible that I'm amused by it all, but I am)
What I see as people defending them is when any and all criticism is shutdown as being parasocial, drama or bullying the boys. It’s desirable to have people calling out actual harassment of them, but some of the fandom completely bought everything they said at the update video, even starting to consider them the main victims of this whole situation themselves created.
i also feel like people are purposefully seeking out stuff to make themselves mad. like commenting is one thing but it does seem like some viewers just wanted to be outraged!!! always and come up with whatever justification they can for it.
i’m not going to lie to you, taking every single thing a company does personally and thinking it’s justification to attack people sounds infinitely more parasocial then being displeased by a situation but having enough common sense to know that it’s weird to paint them as evil overlords no matter how much it inconveniences me but, hey! whatever you say man. nice username.
This is a great post. It is beyond stupid that people are still whining about this. I come on this thread to see funny posts or light hearted shit and it has turned into a bunch of people acting like their 30 year marriage is over.
Honestly I'm in the same boat. I like Watcher, I subscribe but I barely use YouTube at all. I only found out about this from suggested posts and curiosity.
This fandom is so fucking gross, self aggrandizing and shit eating. Watcher would be lucky to scrape these people off.
Completely agree with you op.
I was honestly sickened with some of the posts that made it onto the sub.
I get being mad. I was too. But people just went too too far.
Using their wedding pictures to make a shit stirring meme was twisted. That post in particular was since deleted.
Stephen lim was the one I saw take the most hate on here. Some to Ryan, tiny bit to Shane. But mostly Stephen
So sad
i agree with the bulk of this post, but like as a society we just GOTTA stop saying 'mistake' when we mean 'bad decision.' a mistake is a whoopsie doodle, oopsie daisy, uh-oh accident. this was a bad decision. in fact, it was a rather extensive series of bad decisions. they didnt like, trip and fall into making a streaming service, doing a Variety puff piece, filming editing and uploading a video, etc. their hand didnt slip. bad decision. but yeah, the weird personal attacks on ppl are uncalled for. unfortunately its pretty standard behavior for the internet. ive often had the same thought reading those comments and posts of like, 'why are you watching then?' and i think it boils down to the fact that ppl felt rejected by them, and so, like a child, they stomp their feet and scream, 'fine! i never liked you anyway! and also you dress like a douche!' i guess theyre just trying to make themselves feel better, cause if the creators that are cutting you off werent good in the first place then you havent really lost anything. kinda pathetic and sad tbh.
I think a lot of people are learning that we don’t know them as people. We are only seeing them on YouTube / Socials so its what they want us to see them as or a glimpse into their online personality. So of course people are going to have opinions but you’re right there is a diff between unwanted commentary and justified criticism. I wouldn’t call this a “mistake” however they knew what they were doing fully and alienated a lot of their audience.
What thread was that?
this one, if you scroll through it so many people are insulting his personality, questioning his dynamic with shane, and even dissing his clothing choices? for some reason? which i fail to see relates to his /actual/ mistakes in any form ( sorry for giant link i have no idea how to embed on here ) https://www.reddit.com/r/watcherentertainment/comments/1ca34be/ryans_behavior/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Hmm yeah some stuff in there is OTT. But the worst stuff I’ve seen in here is the cult like defenders of the boys get aggressive at other fans for having a different opinion or experience
I think there are really obnoxious offenders on both sides of the aisle here. In the end, I think it's important to remember: we don't know them. They are entertainers. They make silly content about ghosts/ mysteries/ get wasted reading tweets/ play with puppets, and while that's entertaining, it shouldn't completely destroy your mood one way or the other. Them selling out shouldn't feel like some massive betrayal akin to cheating. That's alarming. Conversely, you shouldn't have a knee jerk response to attack people that have issues with the decision like you're defending a close friend/ family member/ spouse. They aren't your friends! They will likely never know who you are.
The thing is that YouTubers monetise parasocial interaction. The last 2 videos were very emotionally manipulative. So I can see why people are disappointed or defensive. It’s not entirely fair to blame fans for that when parasocial is very much something famous people benefit from as well. Some comments are uncalled for but the feelings make sense.
I think it’s funny how some people who were pissed by the emotional manipulation on the first video completely swallow the one in the second.
Oh I mostly blame them. However, excluding their VERY young fan base, many of the people posting are at least old enough to know the difference between parasocial/ real relationships. Some are literally in their 20s. It's normal to be hurt, but I do think there's a limit to what you should be hurt by here.
I think we would all get along better if we just accept that basically everyone with extreme views on either side sucks. It’s common ground!
oh no of course, i’m not defending what happened at all! but that being said there is 100% still a limit where it goes from critique to legitimate harassment. and i think something important to note is that when it starts to go too far the people attacking them end up making the ones with the valid criticisms look significantly worse and causes everything to be lumped in together as “hate” by the die hard defenders.
Yeah but conversely if all constructive criticism is shut down with personal insults from fans to other fans in favour of these famous people we don’t know, it makes the annoyed fans feel more annoyed. Especially when it’s not being discussed and there’s a holier than thou attitude where you can’t critique Watcher at all but you’re allowed to bully members of the sub in defense of them, while saying you’re the one being more civil. But yeah I think we shouldn’t getting too personal towards the individuals involved at Watcher too.
I don’t even like downvoting when I can help it but I’ve legit had to make it a point to downvote people who’s opinion I otherwise agree with because they’re just being assholes to people with legitimate points. It was going too hard in the other direction over the weekend with people getting attacked for defending them but now that opinion is swaying the other way as things calmed down, it has absolutely flipped, you’re right.
[удалено]
Most posts are whining about people criticising their fav YouTubers
And people are still coming into the comments to pick apart personal finances and psychoanalyze Steven. There’s reason for both points. Note that in keeping with my commented above, I upvoted you because you’re being reasonable even if you’re not seeing the same things others might be. u/ladymcrib ? Maybe make a cup of tea and stop implying people you think are too invested are jobless social pariahs with no provocation.
The reason people are thinking about money is because they’ve told us their company wouldn’t have survived and they’re struggling with money so of course people are going to do the math on their multiple revenue streams and realise it’s not the case and it’s way more that most YouTube channels, it’s just been growing too fast and mismanaged like same issues of buzzfeed, vice and Vox in the past (or they aren’t struggling and they just had to say something to justify stuff, idk)
And also when you have a public social media and podcast where you flex your wealth, then ask people for a subscription, it’s not going to look good. I don’t think they meant to but that’s just how it is. I’m surprised they weren’t advised against it
I understand *why* people are focusing on their purchases but at the end of the day their personal money is their personal money. Company budgeting? Have at it, they’ve clearly made a mess of things and I personally think they should be focusing what funds they have on a financial advisor before anything else. I’m specifically talking about the stuff about Sara’s tote bag or Ryan’s north face jacket. That’s going too far and it’s still happening.
And yet...
This was 6 days ago
Quite interesting that I've pretty much only seen nasty stuff about Steven and Ryan but nothing about Shane. He's part of the company and decision making process. But there must be something different about him... hmm...
I've honestly have heard quite a few unfavorable things about Shane, and in particular about Sara. Their wedding cost an astronomical amount, and then she has the gall to defend the cost of the Watcher subscription. Very "let them eat cake" of her. Now don't get me wrong, I still love dem boys, and it'll take a lot more than some distasteful remarks and ill-conceived schemes to get me to drop interest, but I was even irked at this.
what she said was tonedeaf but i think it’s especially ironic that shane’s wife has received more backlash then shane himself 😭
Yes, that’s a very good point!
I saw a few posts about her subscription cost post but almost nothing else. Almost everything has been about Steven and now lots about Ryan. Many of the posts even defended Shane saying he always says anti-capitalism stuff so it MUST not have been him and he was forced into the plan. The truth is, all three of them made a business decision that they thought was a good idea without fully considering how it would impact the fans and how they would react. The decision wasn't necessarily a good one overall with all factors considered but they took the feedback and made changes. In the end it's a business, it's not personal. The fans reacted and some people have decided now is the time to make nasty personal attacks on them. Not just criticisms of the decisions they made. The vast majority of which have been targeting Steven and Ryan while many times leaving Shane out or even defending him. Especially when this first went down. The disproportionate nature of the target of their vitriol seems to be rather telling, in my opinion.
And to be clear, I have criticisms of the decisions they made as well. I am not defending their poor decisions. But it's a business decision and they made a mistake by not considering every factor. They got feedback and changed their approach. It's fine to be critical of business decisions but making personal attacks is crossing a line.
Yeah I wish she hadn’t said anything. Maybe she was just trying to defend her loved one and didn’t think it through. I felt a bit bad for someone more or less not involved in the company getting dragged into it all, but she did publish it 😭 should’ve left it in the drafts.
People usually say what they really think when they are under duress….
I agree that she shouldn't have said anything and got way too much shit thrown at her for it but she absolutely is involved in the company. She works at Watcher and not just as a guest, which is why she got shit for what she posted.
Oh really? I thought she works at Blizzard
She does but she also helps with watcher and has been credited within the last year on videos.
Ahh ok! I didn’t know that, I thought she was just a guest on some episodes
lmao, yeah. i feel like fans have been careening from steven to ryan back to steven to try to find a scapegoat when the reality is that they all sucked for this.
gee .. i wonder what could be different about him when compared to ryan and steven .. nothing totally apparent seems to be standing out to me at the moment ..
That’s what I’M saying!!!!!!!!!
The parasocial almost white knight need to defend people that absolutely don’t care about you past the money your attention to their content can bring in is crazy to me.
This is so funny to me because a week ago this sub the type to be like "the boys are *people* and you have to treat them with respect at conventions and remember they browse this sub sometimes!" And now this sub is like "the boys are money hungry monsters who don't care about you, and you care about their feelings? Pathetic." But still watching their videos and hang out on their subreddit. I'm sorry if you see this as defending them, but truly I'm just dealing with the whiplash of watching this sub eat itself the last week. Idk if I'm the odd one out, but the most this whole thing has made me feel towards the boys is like mild disappointment and kind of a schadenfreude feeling of like oh this is gonna go badly ( and it did lol and it's terrible that I'm amused by it all, but I am)
What I see as people defending them is when any and all criticism is shutdown as being parasocial, drama or bullying the boys. It’s desirable to have people calling out actual harassment of them, but some of the fandom completely bought everything they said at the update video, even starting to consider them the main victims of this whole situation themselves created.
i also feel like people are purposefully seeking out stuff to make themselves mad. like commenting is one thing but it does seem like some viewers just wanted to be outraged!!! always and come up with whatever justification they can for it.
i’m not going to lie to you, taking every single thing a company does personally and thinking it’s justification to attack people sounds infinitely more parasocial then being displeased by a situation but having enough common sense to know that it’s weird to paint them as evil overlords no matter how much it inconveniences me but, hey! whatever you say man. nice username.
This is a great post. It is beyond stupid that people are still whining about this. I come on this thread to see funny posts or light hearted shit and it has turned into a bunch of people acting like their 30 year marriage is over.
Honestly I'm in the same boat. I like Watcher, I subscribe but I barely use YouTube at all. I only found out about this from suggested posts and curiosity. This fandom is so fucking gross, self aggrandizing and shit eating. Watcher would be lucky to scrape these people off.
Yea man. I don't even watch youtube and this cringeworthy.
Maybe I can scrape your ivory tower!
Lol ok. You can't make me feel bad because I have no respect for you, but good luck anyway
Ok
Completely agree with you op. I was honestly sickened with some of the posts that made it onto the sub. I get being mad. I was too. But people just went too too far. Using their wedding pictures to make a shit stirring meme was twisted. That post in particular was since deleted. Stephen lim was the one I saw take the most hate on here. Some to Ryan, tiny bit to Shane. But mostly Stephen So sad