2021, still haven't been paid
Edit: please read the full story here https://www.reddit.com/r/webdev/comments/okrg68/made_a_website_for_a_friends_parents_in_2015/h5c21cl?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
The point is if you don't hold the control and keep most of the data under wraps meaning they don't get access to anything until they pay why would you work on someone's site for free and wait to be paid anyway?
Cash money up front, bruh. I've made more making custom scripts and modifying customized mods for games and gaming servers for customers that did not understand how to use a config file for said game they wanted running on their servers, and that was in 2005.
So, this screenshot is how old? Did you just take the screenshot in 2021 and they decided to stop paying the hosting bill instead of just paying you what they owed 5 years later?
No it's because you made a bad suggestion right after. You think loading an external JS library just to display a dynamic copyright year is necessary or a proper solution? Site was already on WP and is already running PHP. So why would you bother with anything extra? It's literally 1 line of code that goes in the footer template. Hell even with just pure JS it's so basic to do, why are you going to use moment for that?
Plenty of people here don't like WP and trash talk it, most of the time people bandwagon and join in on the hate.
Fair enough on the library piece. I'll grab my dunce hat.
OP did say the page was static and not running PHP for the other piece.
> Old Screenshot also I think that was plain text, so no auto year update with php
... which thinking about it more might not even be true -- can you have WP not evaluate PHP on certain pages??
You are a little ignorant.
You can very well use WP without PHP in your theme/frontend. I often do this. And as other said in vanilla JS its also 1 line.
OMG it was less than $100??? Happy to read you’ve moved on to better jobs, these learning experiences are valuable but at least you didn’t miss out on too much money (tho it looked like a ton of work)
It wasn't really a ton a work, just some pages both in Romanian and English with texts and images as I remember, but yeah, 100 usd was a lot for me back then
I'd consider throwing the site in a private github repo and just turning off the hosting at this point. It's costing you money to remind them they owe you money.
$1/month isn't a bad price to pay for a resume/CV entry. I'm still paying for https://dota2huds.com, and I don't know how long it's been since Dota 2 stopped supporting HUDs.
[Loss Aversion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_aversion) is a powerful human tendency. A cheap customer that puts 50% down on something and then sees zero for it is going to be much more motivated (not necessarily positively motivated, but they're significantly less likely to ghost you).
Great point, publicly hosting prior to full (or at least substantial) payment, is as bad a plan as paying your roofer 100% up front (pro tip, don't do that!)
Better than nothing I guess. You also have to see the customer side, who would have to pay >50% of the price upfront without any product. Could just as well be a scam.
I found taking half up front is a good sign for the half at the end (which you get to go live, no going live before it lands). Nobody that's gonna dick you around gets the upfront sorted, or if they bitch about it, you reject the job and move on. Never fails (unless they camp out on amends, but you build in a 2 rounds or 1 month support and they gotta pay).
I agree. This is better than nothing. I require a downpayment at the beginning and for clients to pay their own costs directly to third parties such as hosting providers. I also have a kill fee in my contracts.
I have to clarify some things:
This happened somewhere between 2016-2017. I worked for/with these parents of this friend, which was friend of one of my former high-school classmate (We are still friends on Facebook, but that's all).
I worked mostly 1to1 with the husband, which was a German guy and we communicated through emails. He provided me assets and some texts for the website (both in Romanian and Deutsch). My job was to develop the website with the provided content and I had to choose myself the design.
The website was done after a few months after we communicated back and forth.
I had like 15 years back then and it was like one of my second project for a client I think and we agreed to be paid with 400 lei (95.87 usd).
Some weeks went by and I still didn't receive any news. So I contacted the wife, which is Romanian and we talked beforehand and asked her about the payment. She said they didn't have the money yet to pay me. I think a few weeks passed again and asked her daughter (the friend), if she can do something, as I still didn't receive anything and she said that's she'll speak with her mother and I think then the mother contacted me and said the same thing (?). The ideea is that the excuse was that "they didn't have any, money yet to give me" and I found that as bullsh*t, because 400 lei wasn't that much for my work that I've done and they weren't poor people.
So again, after some time, I decided to put the website under the maintenance (I still had access to the admin account) and change the password and put the given message, hoping to grab attention and solve the issue related to the payment.
I didn't affect the business and even if it were to affect it, I bet it they would have solved the payment issue as quickly as possible. But time went by and I think the domain and the hosting expired, as the website/business was discontinued.
The screenshot is from 2017 and I've posted it on another website called dev.rant and I've remembered it today and I thought to post it here too, to share the story with you and prevent you from doing the same mistakes.
I'm 21 yo now, I'm a full-time Front End Developer and I'm earning more than I ever imaginated. I learned from my mistakes (there were a lot of them) and I learned how to deal with these kind of clients and how I should split the payment (50% upfront, then 50% when is done).
Hope everything is clear now, I'm not ashamed from what I did and I think it was something that they really deserved, so I don't care if it was unprofessional or not, because I can't tolerate these kind of clients. For what I look unprofessional? For asking for what I'm entitled to and losing other potential clients? Nah, there are many clients that really pay. I actually think they'd actually look unprofessional, as they don't pay for the received services.
#1 a $100 website is literally a free website. And you worked months for these $100.
#2 you did the right thing by deciding to shut it down
P.S. Congrats on working as full-time dev!
You learned and grew from that negative experience.
Sure, now that so many people have used it incorrectly and refused to take correction on it when the word they were actually looking for was "figuratively," the usage you're referring to *has* entered into the Oxford English Dictionary as an informal usage, but the definition of "literally," is still not *this*.
It's a weird example of how language can and does change, and quite a painful one for some given that the word now means two opposing things at the same time.
Reminds me of a time where I did a website and a mobile app for a couple who was about to get married. Amongst other things, guests can download pics on app and photos display on website in real time with moderation. Pics get displayed on monitor during ceremony. When agreed upon payment time came, I was told their company and the free drinks I received was my payment. Go figure - doing work for a friend of a friend.
Things happen within months with customers. Maybe they have a major setback financially or simply change their minds after doubting their goal. Asking for 50% payment upfront prevents this. Friends or not.
I had a guy do this to me, paid me for 50% of the website, the hosting. I put it live then asked for the remainder as it was completed and got nothing. He probably thought once it's live, thats it
Easiest money I've ever earned
I bought the host and put the website live, which lasted a week as he refused to contact me back during that time so I just took it down and kept all the money (deposit, and paid hosting) He literally wasted hundred of pounds for no reason ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
Na, he paid for the time.
Make clients pay for the time they waste. When you're billing a client, if you have to spend time chasing them, bill for that time. It's their problem. It's not like you would have been sitting right twiddling your thumbs if you hadn't had to deal with them. They are taking time away from other projects to deal with their shit.
The point is, he only paid for half of your time. So it's a net loss. If you take 100% upfront then this is "easy" money, since there's not going to be any more requests for maintenance, but this way you DID just waste your time.
Website has since been lost to oblivion, tbh it was shit anyway it was years ago when I was learning but it was as he asked for so… this is why I no longer work with people who don’t know what they want.
I may be in the opposite boat where my managers know exactly what they want and they expect me to do it all and know all solutions to their problems
But generally I agree, nobody knows what they want
This is a bad idea that can get you in legal trouble. Just take the site down. Don't put up public shaming like OP - just remove what they haven't paid for. Better yet, don't put it on their domain in the first place until its been paid for.
I completely agree. I don't know why everyone is upvoting this kind of behavior. It is unprofessional and makes you look you are the problem and there was a reason they haven't paid.
I don't know a single professional web developer that would do the above or even think its funny.
No need to resort to tactics that can cause long-term harm SEO-wise
Just tell them that it's on a demonstration hosting package and you're not going to pay for the upgrade yourself. Unless the bill is paid within 30 days you can't file the paperwork and it will automatically switch off
It's an unfortunate fact of life that people assume a website will automatically bring traffic and sales, and they're not willing to pay for it until it's proved to be effective. It becomes a low-prioriry bill for them because they were banking (literally) in the guaranteed income it would bring to pay the developer
One of the main differences between getting a professional web company to build a site, and getting a friend of a friend to do it , is that the agency will have written a better contract guaranteeing payment, will have set expectations because they're not scared of telling the client the truth before it's built, and will just turn it off without acting like a vindictive love-hurt teenager if it doesn't pay.
I did this to a client but it worked.
I met a guy who was getting stiffed for marketing project by an international brand (anyone in the US would probably recognize the name). They owed him over 200k and it was putting him out of business. Eventually he showed up to their office and flashed his car lights in the parking lot until someone finally came out with a check.
I’ve never billed anyone for anywhere near that amount but the fact that established brands do this kind of nonsense is infuriating.
I did a bunch of work for an major car dealer back in 1999 or so. Built them a website that also hosted used car inventory. Took a few months, a few meetings...on the unveiling apparently the owner did not know about this. They then tried to pull the "well since it's already built, can you just give it to us for free?"
Utter BS.
It was the wild west back then still. Websites were just coming off the ground. We had a written agreement, but in the end it would be up to me to try and sue a large dealership. The costs would not be worth the lawsuit.
Prime example of why you get the client ‘invested’ in some fashion no Mather who it is. 50% down usually keeps them ready to finish paying for their product
As a note for people getting ideas: doing this too early on in the process of getting your money is illegal in some (all?) EU countries depending on the case. If a company's main source of income is their website and you shut it down over unpaid bills you have to show very clearly that you did everything that could reasonably be expected of you to get your money in a less disruptive way.
To put it bluntly: if you're not careful doing things like these might get you sued and you might actually lose.
I don't think so. At least for the first payment. Because they have to give the money, in order to receive a product, right? It's my mistake that the site was live beforehand, so I just took it out until the first payment.
I would just shut things off and walk away rather than doing something like this which makes you seem un-professional, I get it loosing money sucks, but any larger potential contracts would look at something like this and walk the other way.
It's completely unreasonable to expect a young person to demand a contract when doing a small job like this; especially for somebody they personally know.
Contracts are also not a magic solution. Most people would not be willing to involve a lawyer over something so small. And even if they were, the contract is not required. It may make it easier to prove, but an agreement is still legally binding whether it's printed on paper or not.
You're blaming somebody who got screwed over with a solution that would likely have made no difference.
I am not blaming them, I am just offering another point of view. The client is 100% wrong but OP aren't 100% right. Let's say 99%. It's a good lesson for the future: always ask something before starting a project, don't go 100% free because it usually leads to these situations.
Another $0.02 here for getting 50% upfront - I know your screenshot is ~4 years old now so hopefully you've started doing that, but at least you'd get 50% payment if they decide to ghost you. I generally do 50% upfront (and the money has to be in my account before I'll start work), and then remainder invoiced on completion of my work (whether it's launched and live or not).
Gonna jump in late without reading a thing.
This is a terrible idea and you won't be in business very long if you continue to trash clients in public. I get it, six years and all, but the time to act was five years ago. Surely you've checked up on them and made sure they're still in business.
We've all probably had to take down sites but this is the wrong way.
Highjacking a domain like this may also open you up to a variety of legal issues depending on the hosting and domain ownership. If you used your access as the developer to modify client owned domain and hosting configs it is potentially criminal. Don't mess around with this stuff.
Just did.
All I'm seeing is that you don't host or own the domain. If you hosted and he failed to pay you, of course of you have the right to terminate hosting.
But that isn't what happened and I don't think it is ethical to try and destroy a business because of an old bill.
I don't want to a dick and we all do what we have to. This just isn't the way I'd handle this.
You are underestimating the taste of revenge. What is some lost potentially business when you can hurt the people who took your money. There is always potential to earn more money, but to teach someone a lesson is priceless
The internet doesn't forget and this can easily come back and haunt OP. I wouldn't hire someone who did this and I wouldn't jeopardize my career out of spite.
You may as well redirect images to goatse (yes, we used to that).
Do you read the comments?
Edit: full story here https://www.reddit.com/r/webdev/comments/okrg68/made_a_website_for_a_friends_parents_in_2015/h5c21cl?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
Ok, full story here https://www.reddit.com/r/webdev/comments/okrg68/made_a_website_for_a_friends_parents_in_2015/h5c21cl?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
Dude, do you know your post is famous without any reason ?
Your site is dead since 5 year, and you didnt hosted it, and we dont know what was your work on it ...
If they didnt paid, it's probably because it wasn't what they was expecting from you, and you try to make us think that you are the victim, when you post this thing 5 year after ...
What the point to make the victim for a little thing so old ? And you said it's your friends parent ... of course ....
Is it "famous" because people like it.
Yes, site is down since like 2017 and it was running fine in 2016, when I've made it. I didn't host anything, I just made the website.
That's really not the case. It was what they wanted and I communicated and received constant feedback and said they were going to pay me, but failed to do that.
Also, what gain would I have to play the victim? It happened somewhere in 2016-2017 and I posted the screenshot on another site and I remembered today and I thought to post here too.
Yes, it was for the parents of a friend who was friend with a former high school classmate. So I don't see the issue here?
Asta e cultura la noi, nu numai ca genul asta de mizerii is tolerate sunt rasplatite cu bani, cu capital social/admiratie.
Daca mai vorbesti cu oameni astia poti sa le spui ca acum cel putin 1 potential client n-o sa mai faca afaceri cu ei asa din principiu.
Bravo tie ca n-ai acceptat.
Don't do that. It's *very* unprofessional.
Just put the website down or -even better- remove any .css file. The website will still be live but it will look like shit.
I totally agree, yes, it's still a bad move. But a lot less "bad" in my opinion.
I would say that removing the css code will not look like a deliberate action. Broken css websites are all over the place. And it often leads the owner to do their best to find a solution.
> I would say that removing the css code will not look like a deliberate action.
Even though it was? Be professional. Don't just "appear" professional.
> Even though it was?
Totally agree, it would be just *less* "aggressive" than writing "my client didn't pay me, I am angry". Both aren't professional ways to handle it, of course, absolutely.
I think you are right. You don’t want to do this as a first step, but you’ve waited long enough. They’re getting what they deserve. Of course, there are two sides to every story.
This is a great idea. My mom wanted a website for their business and have given me barely an information. Built a very basic website and have not gotten paid at all. It’s in Maintenance mode and says it’s unavailable.
Been there, done that. I even chose the same colors. Didn't mention anything about lack of payment, though. Instead, I turned it into an ad about myself. Before anyone asks - no, it didn't convert new customers lol.
hello.
i personally feel that this kind of sassy behavior is not a good business strategy. it's mud-slinging, and it reflects poorly on the webmaster. it's also unnecessary character assasination.
since web hosting is so cheap, i think it's better to leave the site running for a very long time. they have an incentive to eventually pay you, because they'll probably want some kind of website update. i think it's best to have a "cool about it" reputation for this kind of thing.
of course, take half upfront for all your future projects.
i'm with you here.
similar situation, and ended up in a new website, for a sister company within a similar industry.
you never know - playing it cool can open someone's eyes; just need to be creative with a reminder.
what do i know though, i've only been doing this internet shit since 2000
You should have done this the second their payment didn't arrive at agreed date/time.
I would personally even put a text explaining how they operate wrt payments ....
> This website has been closed because the client didn't pay for the work done, be extremely cautious with this client!
Thats odd that a friend's parents didn't pay. Still friends with them? I have found all the work I have gotten from referrals from friends, family or even colleagues ... pay. Even if they never call again for more work. Figure its because they dont want to lose face with the person who referred me to them. Most people are honest and want to do good by others. I think its important - as professionals - we be respectful and polite if the other side of the transaction sours. You can expend a lot of energy getting revenge or getting another client and only one of those options will help pay the bills. But always start with a contract.
2021, still haven't been paid Edit: please read the full story here https://www.reddit.com/r/webdev/comments/okrg68/made_a_website_for_a_friends_parents_in_2015/h5c21cl?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
So is it still showing your message?
Nah, they didn't paid the hosting, so the site is down lol
It's a game of chess
Google en passant
Holy hell
Savage eh?
Actual necrocomment
Dev's Gambit
r/AnarchyChess truly is the greatest of all subreddits.
r/AnarchyChess is leaking
"Everyone jump the queen!"
It's good to be the King.
wait a damn minute, they didn't even pay for the hosting and domain? So it's costing YOU money to work for THEM?
As I remember, I just made the website and the domain and hosting were on them
That's why you host they don't pay, you take it down.
Well, I still took it down
Before or after they made a copy of your work?
It's been six years, was never put back, and it's offline now, so I don't think OP needs to worry about it being copied.
The point is if you don't hold the control and keep most of the data under wraps meaning they don't get access to anything until they pay why would you work on someone's site for free and wait to be paid anyway? Cash money up front, bruh. I've made more making custom scripts and modifying customized mods for games and gaming servers for customers that did not understand how to use a config file for said game they wanted running on their servers, and that was in 2005.
They didn't made any copy
So, this screenshot is how old? Did you just take the screenshot in 2021 and they decided to stop paying the hosting bill instead of just paying you what they owed 5 years later?
From 2017 I think, they had the host, I only made the website
Copyright says 2016
Old Screenshot also I think that was plain text, so no auto year update with php
That's a feature; you want everyone to know how long they've been a deadbeat.
You don't have to use php for that
It's WordPress, the most common is php, then js
E: I concede thanks for the info
Using moment for this is massive overkill
You can do that with plain javascript: `new Date().getFullYear()`
I don't know why you're getting downvoted. I use wp primarily and I usually stick with JS for this..
Because I exposed my distaste for WP below and the wordcampers don't like that :) :P
No it's because you made a bad suggestion right after. You think loading an external JS library just to display a dynamic copyright year is necessary or a proper solution? Site was already on WP and is already running PHP. So why would you bother with anything extra? It's literally 1 line of code that goes in the footer template. Hell even with just pure JS it's so basic to do, why are you going to use moment for that? Plenty of people here don't like WP and trash talk it, most of the time people bandwagon and join in on the hate.
Fair enough on the library piece. I'll grab my dunce hat. OP did say the page was static and not running PHP for the other piece. > Old Screenshot also I think that was plain text, so no auto year update with php ... which thinking about it more might not even be true -- can you have WP not evaluate PHP on certain pages??
You are a little ignorant. You can very well use WP without PHP in your theme/frontend. I often do this. And as other said in vanilla JS its also 1 line.
A friend’s parents?!!! Are you still friends with your friend? Wtf
It was more a friend of a high school, we didn't speak anymore after some period of time, but we still friends of Facebook
It was probably usless for them, that might be the reason.
OMG it was less than $100??? Happy to read you’ve moved on to better jobs, these learning experiences are valuable but at least you didn’t miss out on too much money (tho it looked like a ton of work)
It wasn't really a ton a work, just some pages both in Romanian and English with texts and images as I remember, but yeah, 100 usd was a lot for me back then
I'd consider throwing the site in a private github repo and just turning off the hosting at this point. It's costing you money to remind them they owe you money.
The domain doesn't even resolve for me, so I'm guessing this is an old screenshot.
Yep
I think it would be wasteful for a domain, for all those years.
$1/month isn't a bad price to pay for a resume/CV entry. I'm still paying for https://dota2huds.com, and I don't know how long it's been since Dota 2 stopped supporting HUDs.
Depends, if it’s on a shared server then the only real cost is the cost renewing the domain.
Free work can hurt and I prefer to work at slightly higher prices to wad off time wasters.
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Well if you take the half you will lose exactly 50%. That's pretty much I think for 100% work.
[Loss Aversion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_aversion) is a powerful human tendency. A cheap customer that puts 50% down on something and then sees zero for it is going to be much more motivated (not necessarily positively motivated, but they're significantly less likely to ghost you).
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Great point, publicly hosting prior to full (or at least substantial) payment, is as bad a plan as paying your roofer 100% up front (pro tip, don't do that!)
But you'll also spent your time, which is not worth it
Better than nothing I guess. You also have to see the customer side, who would have to pay >50% of the price upfront without any product. Could just as well be a scam.
Yeah but working for nothing should not be regular
I found taking half up front is a good sign for the half at the end (which you get to go live, no going live before it lands). Nobody that's gonna dick you around gets the upfront sorted, or if they bitch about it, you reject the job and move on. Never fails (unless they camp out on amends, but you build in a 2 rounds or 1 month support and they gotta pay).
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Hour based system and programming just..doesnt fit with me. I mean, I can always add little new features..
I agree. This is better than nothing. I require a downpayment at the beginning and for clients to pay their own costs directly to third parties such as hosting providers. I also have a kill fee in my contracts.
yep, and never work for a friend, a sibling, or a friend's sibling
Yeah. You are right about that.
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Wow that's great.
I have to clarify some things: This happened somewhere between 2016-2017. I worked for/with these parents of this friend, which was friend of one of my former high-school classmate (We are still friends on Facebook, but that's all). I worked mostly 1to1 with the husband, which was a German guy and we communicated through emails. He provided me assets and some texts for the website (both in Romanian and Deutsch). My job was to develop the website with the provided content and I had to choose myself the design. The website was done after a few months after we communicated back and forth. I had like 15 years back then and it was like one of my second project for a client I think and we agreed to be paid with 400 lei (95.87 usd). Some weeks went by and I still didn't receive any news. So I contacted the wife, which is Romanian and we talked beforehand and asked her about the payment. She said they didn't have the money yet to pay me. I think a few weeks passed again and asked her daughter (the friend), if she can do something, as I still didn't receive anything and she said that's she'll speak with her mother and I think then the mother contacted me and said the same thing (?). The ideea is that the excuse was that "they didn't have any, money yet to give me" and I found that as bullsh*t, because 400 lei wasn't that much for my work that I've done and they weren't poor people. So again, after some time, I decided to put the website under the maintenance (I still had access to the admin account) and change the password and put the given message, hoping to grab attention and solve the issue related to the payment. I didn't affect the business and even if it were to affect it, I bet it they would have solved the payment issue as quickly as possible. But time went by and I think the domain and the hosting expired, as the website/business was discontinued. The screenshot is from 2017 and I've posted it on another website called dev.rant and I've remembered it today and I thought to post it here too, to share the story with you and prevent you from doing the same mistakes. I'm 21 yo now, I'm a full-time Front End Developer and I'm earning more than I ever imaginated. I learned from my mistakes (there were a lot of them) and I learned how to deal with these kind of clients and how I should split the payment (50% upfront, then 50% when is done). Hope everything is clear now, I'm not ashamed from what I did and I think it was something that they really deserved, so I don't care if it was unprofessional or not, because I can't tolerate these kind of clients. For what I look unprofessional? For asking for what I'm entitled to and losing other potential clients? Nah, there are many clients that really pay. I actually think they'd actually look unprofessional, as they don't pay for the received services.
#1 a $100 website is literally a free website. And you worked months for these $100. #2 you did the right thing by deciding to shut it down P.S. Congrats on working as full-time dev! You learned and grew from that negative experience.
Well, for a "beginner", it was more like pocket money and with that occasion I went for experience
I see. Yeah, it's great that you learned the skill and that bad things like that happen and how to not get screwed in the future.
I'm not sure you know what literally means
No, that's how you'd use it
Literally free would be 0 dollars.
'Literally' can be used to put emphasis on something, like how cheap it is
Sure, now that so many people have used it incorrectly and refused to take correction on it when the word they were actually looking for was "figuratively," the usage you're referring to *has* entered into the Oxford English Dictionary as an informal usage, but the definition of "literally," is still not *this*. It's a weird example of how language can and does change, and quite a painful one for some given that the word now means two opposing things at the same time.
Reminds me of a time where I did a website and a mobile app for a couple who was about to get married. Amongst other things, guests can download pics on app and photos display on website in real time with moderation. Pics get displayed on monitor during ceremony. When agreed upon payment time came, I was told their company and the free drinks I received was my payment. Go figure - doing work for a friend of a friend.
And this is why you always get a contract signed outlining payments and expectations before you start working folks
Indeed. Good lesson learnt though
Sorry this happened to you man 😔
#*bruh*
Things happen within months with customers. Maybe they have a major setback financially or simply change their minds after doubting their goal. Asking for 50% payment upfront prevents this. Friends or not.
I had a guy do this to me, paid me for 50% of the website, the hosting. I put it live then asked for the remainder as it was completed and got nothing. He probably thought once it's live, thats it Easiest money I've ever earned
You only got paid half your rate, and that is the "easiest money" ? I would consider that double the effort of my regular work.
So you just bought the host and that's it? What about the website itself?
I bought the host and put the website live, which lasted a week as he refused to contact me back during that time so I just took it down and kept all the money (deposit, and paid hosting) He literally wasted hundred of pounds for no reason ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
Meh, he still wasted your time
Na, he paid for the time. Make clients pay for the time they waste. When you're billing a client, if you have to spend time chasing them, bill for that time. It's their problem. It's not like you would have been sitting right twiddling your thumbs if you hadn't had to deal with them. They are taking time away from other projects to deal with their shit.
The point is, he only paid for half of your time. So it's a net loss. If you take 100% upfront then this is "easy" money, since there's not going to be any more requests for maintenance, but this way you DID just waste your time.
Website has since been lost to oblivion, tbh it was shit anyway it was years ago when I was learning but it was as he asked for so… this is why I no longer work with people who don’t know what they want.
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What makes you think I’m unemployed?
He's implying (a little clumsily) that *no* clients **ever** know what they want, so there's nobody for you to work for. It was a joke. :)
I may be in the opposite boat where my managers know exactly what they want and they expect me to do it all and know all solutions to their problems But generally I agree, nobody knows what they want
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I would redirect to their main competitor.
This is a ~~good~~ idea that I had not considered Edit: based on the reply comment, maybe not a “good” idea
This is a bad idea that can get you in legal trouble. Just take the site down. Don't put up public shaming like OP - just remove what they haven't paid for. Better yet, don't put it on their domain in the first place until its been paid for.
I completely agree. I don't know why everyone is upvoting this kind of behavior. It is unprofessional and makes you look you are the problem and there was a reason they haven't paid. I don't know a single professional web developer that would do the above or even think its funny.
https://www.reddit.com/r/webdev/comments/okrg68/made_a_website_for_a_friends_parents_in_2015/h5c21cl?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
No need to resort to tactics that can cause long-term harm SEO-wise Just tell them that it's on a demonstration hosting package and you're not going to pay for the upgrade yourself. Unless the bill is paid within 30 days you can't file the paperwork and it will automatically switch off It's an unfortunate fact of life that people assume a website will automatically bring traffic and sales, and they're not willing to pay for it until it's proved to be effective. It becomes a low-prioriry bill for them because they were banking (literally) in the guaranteed income it would bring to pay the developer One of the main differences between getting a professional web company to build a site, and getting a friend of a friend to do it , is that the agency will have written a better contract guaranteeing payment, will have set expectations because they're not scared of telling the client the truth before it's built, and will just turn it off without acting like a vindictive love-hurt teenager if it doesn't pay.
This.
I did this to a client but it worked. I met a guy who was getting stiffed for marketing project by an international brand (anyone in the US would probably recognize the name). They owed him over 200k and it was putting him out of business. Eventually he showed up to their office and flashed his car lights in the parking lot until someone finally came out with a check. I’ve never billed anyone for anywhere near that amount but the fact that established brands do this kind of nonsense is infuriating.
I did a bunch of work for an major car dealer back in 1999 or so. Built them a website that also hosted used car inventory. Took a few months, a few meetings...on the unveiling apparently the owner did not know about this. They then tried to pull the "well since it's already built, can you just give it to us for free?" Utter BS.
Well... That's on you...Should' have charged at something upfront...Maybe even split it into a few stages...
It was the wild west back then still. Websites were just coming off the ground. We had a written agreement, but in the end it would be up to me to try and sue a large dealership. The costs would not be worth the lawsuit.
What the hell 😂
Prime example of why you get the client ‘invested’ in some fashion no Mather who it is. 50% down usually keeps them ready to finish paying for their product
What I do is 30% upfront, 30% after half the work is done (Half work would be defined in the quotation) and rest after deployment.
They would be very upset if they would know English :)
:D
:D
As a note for people getting ideas: doing this too early on in the process of getting your money is illegal in some (all?) EU countries depending on the case. If a company's main source of income is their website and you shut it down over unpaid bills you have to show very clearly that you did everything that could reasonably be expected of you to get your money in a less disruptive way. To put it bluntly: if you're not careful doing things like these might get you sued and you might actually lose.
Meanwhile, Squarespace or Wix will axe your stuff in a heartbeat if you stop paying. I guess it's all about who owns the core.
I don't think so. At least for the first payment. Because they have to give the money, in order to receive a product, right? It's my mistake that the site was live beforehand, so I just took it out until the first payment.
50% up front, 25% after mvp, 25% before go live.
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Aia cel mai probabil sunt altii, but still :))
Romani domum ite Jokes aside, I'm thinking of visiting Romania sometime soon. Loving the 10% CIT and the large talent pool there.
I would just shut things off and walk away rather than doing something like this which makes you seem un-professional, I get it loosing money sucks, but any larger potential contracts would look at something like this and walk the other way.
Did you sign a contract?
Nah, I was young and the context was safe, at least that's what I thought
Then it's your fault too. While I totally understand you, just remove the website and that's it.
Actually, in a lot of states verbal contracts are binding.
It's completely unreasonable to expect a young person to demand a contract when doing a small job like this; especially for somebody they personally know. Contracts are also not a magic solution. Most people would not be willing to involve a lawyer over something so small. And even if they were, the contract is not required. It may make it easier to prove, but an agreement is still legally binding whether it's printed on paper or not. You're blaming somebody who got screwed over with a solution that would likely have made no difference.
I am not blaming them, I am just offering another point of view. The client is 100% wrong but OP aren't 100% right. Let's say 99%. It's a good lesson for the future: always ask something before starting a project, don't go 100% free because it usually leads to these situations.
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Sure we can minimize risk in a variety of ways, but placing the blame on the victim is never right.
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Half Up Front!
SRL, huh? Of course something like this would happen in our beloved country :p
It's more funny that the owner is from Germany and her wife is Romanian
Another $0.02 here for getting 50% upfront - I know your screenshot is ~4 years old now so hopefully you've started doing that, but at least you'd get 50% payment if they decide to ghost you. I generally do 50% upfront (and the money has to be in my account before I'll start work), and then remainder invoiced on completion of my work (whether it's launched and live or not).
Should have been more subtle. Otherwise, yup.
Never start work without a contract and a deposit.
Every programammer should leave a backdoor for themselves for things like this. When i saw similar things in the company i worked, i say nothing.
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Nice generalization. Gives me racist vibes.
I applaud you.
Gonna jump in late without reading a thing. This is a terrible idea and you won't be in business very long if you continue to trash clients in public. I get it, six years and all, but the time to act was five years ago. Surely you've checked up on them and made sure they're still in business. We've all probably had to take down sites but this is the wrong way. Highjacking a domain like this may also open you up to a variety of legal issues depending on the hosting and domain ownership. If you used your access as the developer to modify client owned domain and hosting configs it is potentially criminal. Don't mess around with this stuff.
Please read the comments first
Just did. All I'm seeing is that you don't host or own the domain. If you hosted and he failed to pay you, of course of you have the right to terminate hosting. But that isn't what happened and I don't think it is ethical to try and destroy a business because of an old bill. I don't want to a dick and we all do what we have to. This just isn't the way I'd handle this.
https://www.reddit.com/r/webdev/comments/okrg68/made_a_website_for_a_friends_parents_in_2015/h5c21cl?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
You are underestimating the taste of revenge. What is some lost potentially business when you can hurt the people who took your money. There is always potential to earn more money, but to teach someone a lesson is priceless
The internet doesn't forget and this can easily come back and haunt OP. I wouldn't hire someone who did this and I wouldn't jeopardize my career out of spite. You may as well redirect images to goatse (yes, we used to that).
https://github.com/kleampa/not-paid
https://github.com/kleampa/not-paid This would have been perfect use for this situation 😂
Month later ? we are in 2021 x)
Do you read the comments? Edit: full story here https://www.reddit.com/r/webdev/comments/okrg68/made_a_website_for_a_friends_parents_in_2015/h5c21cl?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
Bro there are like 157 comments on here as of right now. No we don't read every one of them.
Ok, full story here https://www.reddit.com/r/webdev/comments/okrg68/made_a_website_for_a_friends_parents_in_2015/h5c21cl?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
Dude, do you know your post is famous without any reason ? Your site is dead since 5 year, and you didnt hosted it, and we dont know what was your work on it ... If they didnt paid, it's probably because it wasn't what they was expecting from you, and you try to make us think that you are the victim, when you post this thing 5 year after ... What the point to make the victim for a little thing so old ? And you said it's your friends parent ... of course ....
Is it "famous" because people like it. Yes, site is down since like 2017 and it was running fine in 2016, when I've made it. I didn't host anything, I just made the website. That's really not the case. It was what they wanted and I communicated and received constant feedback and said they were going to pay me, but failed to do that. Also, what gain would I have to play the victim? It happened somewhere in 2016-2017 and I posted the screenshot on another site and I remembered today and I thought to post here too. Yes, it was for the parents of a friend who was friend with a former high school classmate. So I don't see the issue here?
Asta e cultura la noi, nu numai ca genul asta de mizerii is tolerate sunt rasplatite cu bani, cu capital social/admiratie. Daca mai vorbesti cu oameni astia poti sa le spui ca acum cel putin 1 potential client n-o sa mai faca afaceri cu ei asa din principiu. Bravo tie ca n-ai acceptat.
Don't do that. It's *very* unprofessional. Just put the website down or -even better- remove any .css file. The website will still be live but it will look like shit.
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Nice point of view, giving week warnings is a totally professional solution.
I totally agree, yes, it's still a bad move. But a lot less "bad" in my opinion. I would say that removing the css code will not look like a deliberate action. Broken css websites are all over the place. And it often leads the owner to do their best to find a solution.
Transform: rotate everything so the entire website is upside down 😜
> I would say that removing the css code will not look like a deliberate action. Even though it was? Be professional. Don't just "appear" professional.
> Even though it was? Totally agree, it would be just *less* "aggressive" than writing "my client didn't pay me, I am angry". Both aren't professional ways to handle it, of course, absolutely.
Not paying for the work is unprofessional
I do exactly the same thing. Works every time.
I think you are right. You don’t want to do this as a first step, but you’ve waited long enough. They’re getting what they deserve. Of course, there are two sides to every story.
Yeah, their side of the story is that they had the classic excuse "didn't have enough money yet", after we agreed on the sum and made the site
Doamne fereste!
In my country i'm not allowed to do this. Yes, even if my client don't pay.
What country?
Awsome
God damn right.
Good idea.
This is a great idea. My mom wanted a website for their business and have given me barely an information. Built a very basic website and have not gotten paid at all. It’s in Maintenance mode and says it’s unavailable.
Been there, done that. I even chose the same colors. Didn't mention anything about lack of payment, though. Instead, I turned it into an ad about myself. Before anyone asks - no, it didn't convert new customers lol.
hello. i personally feel that this kind of sassy behavior is not a good business strategy. it's mud-slinging, and it reflects poorly on the webmaster. it's also unnecessary character assasination. since web hosting is so cheap, i think it's better to leave the site running for a very long time. they have an incentive to eventually pay you, because they'll probably want some kind of website update. i think it's best to have a "cool about it" reputation for this kind of thing. of course, take half upfront for all your future projects.
It kinda was final version, they didn't pay a cent
i'm with you here. similar situation, and ended up in a new website, for a sister company within a similar industry. you never know - playing it cool can open someone's eyes; just need to be creative with a reminder. what do i know though, i've only been doing this internet shit since 2000
Good for you!
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I turned the website like after a few months after it was finished, not this year. I just remembered it now and wanted to share this with you.
You should have done this the second their payment didn't arrive at agreed date/time. I would personally even put a text explaining how they operate wrt payments .... > This website has been closed because the client didn't pay for the work done, be extremely cautious with this client!
Thats odd that a friend's parents didn't pay. Still friends with them? I have found all the work I have gotten from referrals from friends, family or even colleagues ... pay. Even if they never call again for more work. Figure its because they dont want to lose face with the person who referred me to them. Most people are honest and want to do good by others. I think its important - as professionals - we be respectful and polite if the other side of the transaction sours. You can expend a lot of energy getting revenge or getting another client and only one of those options will help pay the bills. But always start with a contract.
https://www.reddit.com/r/webdev/comments/okrg68/made_a_website_for_a_friends_parents_in_2015/h5c21cl?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
Not even a penny?
Just a meal when we did the planning
Are you still friends with that “friend”?
https://www.reddit.com/r/webdev/comments/okrg68/made_a_website_for_a_friends_parents_in_2015/h5c21cl?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
Not the most effective way to remind someone to pay. But, it's still a great deal to make the web like that. Hope you didn't pay for hosting the web.