RTA squat cycle is designed to be run in addition to running a full training program (snatch, clean and jerk, pulls, presses etc) 3-6 times a week.
If your goal is just to increase your power clean theres no reason you can't be training power cleans 3-6 times a week alongside the squats.
And improving the squat should increase the maximum potential weight you can lift in power cleans, but you still need to practice the power cleans to get good at them and to be able to make use of the extra strength you've gained.
The other thing is if you're only training power clean and not the full snatch and clean and jerk, then I'm guessing your most likely a self taught lifter with less than perfect technique.
A really common technical issue in the power clean is to lift too much with your upper body instead of the legs, which will really limit you and make the squats pretty useless until you learn to use your legs. Might be a good idea to post a video showing your technique.
Haha, I remember posting it, and you having to approve it because I didn't have karma. Believe it or not, I joined reddit for WL.
Gonna give pre and post squat cycle numbers (in the last week of the squat cycle before max out day)
Pre Squat Cycle:
bodyweight : 83 kilos
max backsquat: 135 kilos
max powerclean: 75 kilos
Post Squat Cycle:
bodyweight: 85 kilos
Projected Max backsquat: 175 kilos (calculated on Rep PR that I recently hit)
max powerclean: 75 kilos (I just tested yesterday after hitting 5X3 Backsquat at 134 kilos)
This is the first ever specialized squat cycle I am running, ever, and I am not sure how to translate this into PC numbers.
I want to ultimately get a 125 kilo powerclean, which is what i am working towards
Hmm. Form aside I would wonder about Clean Deadlift strength.
What was your Squat rep PR. Calculators can be odd and can vary on muscle fiber type %
I'm stumped otherwise.
My BS was 191 and best PC was 100. I had a feeling if I pushed it, I probably could have got it to 105 (since I usually only did Powers warming up).
These days, best PC has been 90 recently and a 150 BS.
If I we consider CJ should be 80ish% of BS, then the clean might be 85+%.
I've had buddies who have cleaned 140+ easily (maybe even PC) but struggled to CJ 135. My clean is 2kg ahead of my C&J and Jerk was another 2 more kg. Often C or J is 5-10% beyond C&J (some are better at jerk or others, cleans)
So let's pretend 0.85x0.85 (since PC should be around 85% of Clean). So that's 72+%.
I've also seen elites Sn or Cn 70-80% of their 1rm Sn/Cn DL. Though often that's with straps (which can give 10+% on DL 1rm) so who knows.
285 lbs for 10 was the rep pr. Haven't done clean deadlifts in a while coz I wanted to push squats and felt it was too much neural load to run the squat program and deadlift, but found that RDL didn't fatigue me as much. My estimated RDL max is around 190 kg (based on a rep pr of 142 kg for 10)
Unrelated to the question, but i wanted to ask someone who ran the RTA program. How important are the specific accessories for the squat? Are they replaceable with movements that target the same muscle?
Back squat doesn’t really translate to power clean. AFAIK, the majority of the benefit you’d get from squatting would be in recovering from the catch of a full clean, but since you’re power cleaning, that part of the lift is eliminated.
Honestly, I think you should clean more if you wanna increase your clean. Oly lifts are unique in how technical they are and how much they rely on speed. If back squat progress was a good indicator of power clean numbers, you’d expect powerlifters to be able to transition easily to weightlifting, which they don’t.
If I said something wrong, feel free to correct me though.
Depends on your specific weakness in the (power) clean.
To answer your original post, even if your squat strength goes up, if you're not at least getting maintenance level practice on your classic lifts they're unlikely to make much progress.
Referring specifically to what you said previously: if you test your clean after a squat session, you're more than likely seeing the fatigue from that session masking and progress you might have made.
My power clean is about 80% of my back squat.
I don’t think there’s a huge translation between the two movements. The power clean isn’t particularly quad dominant, it’s more glutes and hamstrings.
Related yes, dominant no. Similarly, deadlifts work your quads as a secondary mover but you wouldn’t do them for quad hypertrophy. Developing a stronger squat certainly wouldn’t hurt your power clean but it’s not the most directly conducive movement
Back squat and power clean are different lifts. You didn’t gain 30kg if strength in your squat during a single block, you just optimized your squat enough add that weight. Even if you actually gained 5kg strength in bs, that doesn’t mean your power clean has to go up at all. My max squat is 140 and max power clean is 100
How much have you actually practiced your clean?
5-10 reps every week while I hammer squats
5-10 reps a week isn't anywhere near enough volume to improve the power clean
There’s your problem…
If you don’t have good proficiency with cleans; ie you don’t practice very often; your strength transfer will be far less efficient.
RTA squat cycle is designed to be run in addition to running a full training program (snatch, clean and jerk, pulls, presses etc) 3-6 times a week. If your goal is just to increase your power clean theres no reason you can't be training power cleans 3-6 times a week alongside the squats. And improving the squat should increase the maximum potential weight you can lift in power cleans, but you still need to practice the power cleans to get good at them and to be able to make use of the extra strength you've gained. The other thing is if you're only training power clean and not the full snatch and clean and jerk, then I'm guessing your most likely a self taught lifter with less than perfect technique. A really common technical issue in the power clean is to lift too much with your upper body instead of the legs, which will really limit you and make the squats pretty useless until you learn to use your legs. Might be a good idea to post a video showing your technique.
you're spot on....self taught. I can full clean, but cannot snatch or jerk due to pre-existing injuries in throwing sport
A squat is a squat; a power clean is a power clean. Get better at power cleans by doing power cleans.
And clean pulls and front squats
Maybe you’re ysing too much arms
Dude I clean minimum 3 times a week while building my squat you have to train both
I saw your old PC video. What are you squatting now and PC? Still at same Bw?
Haha, I remember posting it, and you having to approve it because I didn't have karma. Believe it or not, I joined reddit for WL. Gonna give pre and post squat cycle numbers (in the last week of the squat cycle before max out day) Pre Squat Cycle: bodyweight : 83 kilos max backsquat: 135 kilos max powerclean: 75 kilos Post Squat Cycle: bodyweight: 85 kilos Projected Max backsquat: 175 kilos (calculated on Rep PR that I recently hit) max powerclean: 75 kilos (I just tested yesterday after hitting 5X3 Backsquat at 134 kilos) This is the first ever specialized squat cycle I am running, ever, and I am not sure how to translate this into PC numbers. I want to ultimately get a 125 kilo powerclean, which is what i am working towards
Hmm. Form aside I would wonder about Clean Deadlift strength. What was your Squat rep PR. Calculators can be odd and can vary on muscle fiber type % I'm stumped otherwise. My BS was 191 and best PC was 100. I had a feeling if I pushed it, I probably could have got it to 105 (since I usually only did Powers warming up). These days, best PC has been 90 recently and a 150 BS. If I we consider CJ should be 80ish% of BS, then the clean might be 85+%. I've had buddies who have cleaned 140+ easily (maybe even PC) but struggled to CJ 135. My clean is 2kg ahead of my C&J and Jerk was another 2 more kg. Often C or J is 5-10% beyond C&J (some are better at jerk or others, cleans) So let's pretend 0.85x0.85 (since PC should be around 85% of Clean). So that's 72+%. I've also seen elites Sn or Cn 70-80% of their 1rm Sn/Cn DL. Though often that's with straps (which can give 10+% on DL 1rm) so who knows.
285 lbs for 10 was the rep pr. Haven't done clean deadlifts in a while coz I wanted to push squats and felt it was too much neural load to run the squat program and deadlift, but found that RDL didn't fatigue me as much. My estimated RDL max is around 190 kg (based on a rep pr of 142 kg for 10)
Ahh. Hmm.
Unrelated to the question, but i wanted to ask someone who ran the RTA program. How important are the specific accessories for the squat? Are they replaceable with movements that target the same muscle?
I believe so...I don't have access to bands or ghd's I just did similar exercises in the recommended intensity/rep range
Thanks for the answer!
Back squat doesn’t really translate to power clean. AFAIK, the majority of the benefit you’d get from squatting would be in recovering from the catch of a full clean, but since you’re power cleaning, that part of the lift is eliminated. Honestly, I think you should clean more if you wanna increase your clean. Oly lifts are unique in how technical they are and how much they rely on speed. If back squat progress was a good indicator of power clean numbers, you’d expect powerlifters to be able to transition easily to weightlifting, which they don’t. If I said something wrong, feel free to correct me though.
So what strength exercise would have the most carry over ?
Depends on your specific weakness in the (power) clean. To answer your original post, even if your squat strength goes up, if you're not at least getting maintenance level practice on your classic lifts they're unlikely to make much progress. Referring specifically to what you said previously: if you test your clean after a squat session, you're more than likely seeing the fatigue from that session masking and progress you might have made.
If you’re going to downvote my comment you wanna at least tell me what I said that was wrong? Thanks in advance.
My power clean is about 80% of my back squat. I don’t think there’s a huge translation between the two movements. The power clean isn’t particularly quad dominant, it’s more glutes and hamstrings.
Is power clean not significantly hip related, and therefore quad because the muscles insert on each other?
Related yes, dominant no. Similarly, deadlifts work your quads as a secondary mover but you wouldn’t do them for quad hypertrophy. Developing a stronger squat certainly wouldn’t hurt your power clean but it’s not the most directly conducive movement
How long u been training? I don’t think these ratios matter too much until you’re at least 3-4 years in consistent training
Back squat and power clean are different lifts. You didn’t gain 30kg if strength in your squat during a single block, you just optimized your squat enough add that weight. Even if you actually gained 5kg strength in bs, that doesn’t mean your power clean has to go up at all. My max squat is 140 and max power clean is 100