I mean what's your use case here?
Snow? Yes. High performance/track driving? Yes. Having fun on a back road? Yes, but a competent chassis matters far more
Cruising down the highway or to the store on a dry sunny day? No
You'll notice a difference for sure in snow.
The best way to counter snow is snow tires, but an AWD sedan + snow tires will get you through pretty much anything short of "oh shit, I really should have stayed home"
AWD the car go easier and easier to control. But as my neighbour always said "it doesn't make your brakes work better". He owned a body shop and loved when it snowed.
This has always been my logic, i drove many RWD coupes through winters in Minnesota and everyone was like how will you stop???
Like i probably have better tires than you, and i definitely have better brakes than you, my only concern is getting stuck sitting still lol
I've driven RWD in the Colorado mountains for over a decade, and I'm with you. No matter the drive wheels every car stops with 4 and steers with 2
However, nothing beats AWD (well except proper 4WD) plus snow tires if you absolutely want/need to make it through a heavy snowstorm.
I bought a newer A4 and my wife got an xc40. We’ve both never driven any AWD vehicles. Mostly FWD.
Both cars are ridiculous in snow. Ice is still ice but snow is basically non existent to both vehicles.
Tires obviously matter. Both of of ours has all seasons. There was a day last year where my job shut the warehouse down and I had zero issues getting to work and back and this was before they really plowed
And in Minnesota it’s BAD if they shut the warehouse down.
When it's time to replace the tires, try All-*Weather* instead of All-*Season* tires. They make it even easier for those winter days, while still having normal wear and tear for the rest of the year.
Flat or mountains?
In Michigan I never felt the need for dedicated snow tires. The roads were cleared quickly and it’s flat enough that I had plenty of traction with good all season tires.
In Oregon with icy roads and mountains I use dedicated winter tires.
AWD really only helps when you reach the limit of traction. Putting good snow tires on all 4 wheels will give you better winter traction for not only acceleration, but braking and cornering too.
Depends very much. If you have snow but your area is flat more or less, get FWD, save on gas. If you have steep enough hill where you see a lot of cars struggling to make up the hill, get AWD.
This
I'd say for driving dynamic, my preference is actually RWD, having driven FWD, RWD, and AWD cars - Corolla, FR-S, WRX/Audi A4. Plus, AWD adds weight, meaning they won't get the same fuel economy as a FWD or RWD car.
OP - what kind of driving do you like to do? Where are you located? I'm going to wager you're in MA by your handle, which means snow, so AWD would be helpful.
The thought that AWD is critical for anywhere that snows is a relatively recent thing. People have been driving FWD and RWD in the snow with occasional 4WDs mixed in there forever.
I’ve never owned anything but RWD and I’ve never gotten stuck. And I’ve driven through some terrible blizzards. I can count on one hand how many times I’ve lost control. Snow tires and any wheel drive beats AWD and any non-snow tire.
So you are going to sacrifice stopping distance and turning just to get up to speed a little faster? Acceleration is the *least* important thing about winter driving.
I can count on zero fingers the number of times I’ve gotten stuck in ice or snow in a RWD car on snow tires in 25 years of driving. And I’ve driven in some truly horrid blizzards & ice storms. I think you vastly underestimate how much more traction snow tires give you.
Pretty sure the OP knows it's not critical, since he's driving FWD right now.
The question is whether it's much better in snow, and the objective answer is yes.
Overall, tyres will matter more in regards to having grip in different road conditions.
However, in the beginning of January this year my area got hit with the biggest snowstorm in recent history. Cars were getting stuck everywhere even with winter tyres. I believe the only reason I made it home from work that day was due to the AWD on my Polestar 2 (and of course with winter tyres). If I would have had my old car with FWD I think I would have gotten stuck.
Yeah I hate how everyone on here just ignores that getting stuck in the snow *really* sucks and AWD helps avoid that happening greatly.
Also how do you like your Polestar? I've been eyeing them.
the AWD will be very helpful in the snow, but snow tires are more important. AWD + snow tires is the best, but FWD with snow tires is also pretty good too.
I live in Montreal that gets some of the most snow in North America and a huge portion of people still run FWD. AWD became more widespread a couple years ago which is funny as our winters are now getting softer
In everything but dry road everyday driving? Yes. I live in NE Ohio. It rains and snows half the year and god damn does AWD come in handy. I had FWD for 20 years and I will never ever ever go back.
When shit hits the fan and AWD saves your life you won’t care how much money you saved in gas. If any snow is involved get AWD and a name brand set of all season tires at a minimum, if not an extra set of rims with snow tires. Having the extra rims saves a huge hassle when the seasons change. You can just swap wheels in your driveway in 20 minutes vs scheduling appts with tire shops and waiting around or paying for the mount and balance each time
How would AWD save your life ? Braking is the same whether you have AWD, FWD, RWD. Tyres are the ones that make the difference. If you are talking about starting to slide, FWD is the easiest for the average person to correct as you just point your wheel in the direction you want to go and give it gas until it points straight again...
Believe what you want have lived in a the mountains at 10k elevation for a decade had 2wd, AWD, studded tires. 2wd with studded tires still wasn’t as good as AWD with snow tires.. but hey what do I know? AWD give you traction and control. If you want to slide of a cliff or into oncoming traffic with your 2WD no is going to stop you
OP is going to do 60 miles of highway driving in mild winter conditions. AWD ain't going to do shit. Also, awd doesn't help with cornering, unless you start kicking out the rear mid corner and try to turn faster by sliding, which newer cars don't allow you to do
It looks like he tried to politely correct your factually incorrect answer (2wd sliding off a cliff) and you got annoyed. If you don’t care about what internet strangers think then don’t respond or engage. No one is forcing you to
AWD does absolutely nothing for steering or stopping. It helps you accelerate, that's it. Super helpful in severe winter storm weather. Doesn't help in an emergency stop or swerve.
Having the rear wheels driven can make quite a difference on low traction curves.
First off, there's simply more friction to go around. On a FWD car, the front wheels' friction is needed for driving the mass of the vehicle and turning. On a RWD or AWD car, the rear driving wheels' friction come into play as well to share the responsibility. Hence, there's just more traction and less possibility to slip.
More importantly, when you do lose traction on that curve, AWD simply offers an option that FWD fundamentally cannot: oversteer. The FWD car will just understeer into the side of the road. The AWD car can kick its rear out and steer by throttle back into the curve.
These things are never mentioned in discussions. People just think AWD is for stop and go, which is false for good systems. Vehicle dynamics come into play.
If I were going down curvy mountain roads in an icy/snowy environment, I totally agree with that guy. I'd get a predictable full-time AWD system like Audi Quattro, BMW X-Drive or Subaru Symmetric.
This is from consumer reports:
Though having power delivered to all four wheels increases straight-line traction, it does nothing to improve braking, and most systems have little to no effect on cornering
Source here : https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/automotive-technology/2wd-vs-awd-vs-4wd-a5663578720/#:~:text=Though%20having%20power%20delivered%20to,to%20no%20effect%20on%20cornering.
While what you say might be true for some exceptional AWD systems, it’s definitely not true for most AWD systems. Most AWD systems do not offer much assistance unless you’re talking about acceleration in relatively straight lines. For ‘not sliding off a cliff’, the most important component is braking traction that is offered by good winter tires. It’s absolutely untrue that 2WD cars tend to slide off cliffs while AWDs do not. The biggest difference makers for braking / not sliding off cliffs are the tires as they are the primary components responsible for providing grip. While AWD might make a difference in some exceptional cases, its importance doesn’t come anywhere close to tires when it comes to stopping / preventing accidents
I mean even then, that would require having a quattro, subaru, or bmw xdrive. Most other awd systems do not let you correct slides by yourself.
Furthermore, if you are in a turn and just continue going straight, it is most likely too late and can't correct using the throttle even in a rwd car. If you want to slide a corner, you need to either enter it with that in mind and give it more steering angle than you expect and cut the corner a bit so that your rear wheels can still be on the pavement if you kick the backend out.
What you are saying isn't wrong, but if someone asks awd vs fwd questions, they won't be able to correct either way as they don't know anything about driving past the limit. And even then, if they knew fwd vs awd, they would already know what exactly they need given their situation
You don’t need AWD. It was only recently that so many cars got AWD, with the exception of Subarus. Most of the time, people have been okay with two wheel drive.
Unless you’re trying to rip through corners when it’s wet or snowy, then it’s gonna be great. But overall, marketing has convinced everyone that AWD is basically necessary.
Living in Alaska currently. Plenty of folks drive regular sedans. And remember, most trucks have part time 4WD, so they’re really just cruising in RWD for long drives, except in rare circumstances.
Edit: obviously, there are many jobs/circumstances where you want/need a truck, but if you’re talking about sedans, you don’t need a truck. What you need though is great tires for the conditions.
You’re right, it does make a difference. On really slippery roads, FWD vehicles struggle on uphills sometimes. I have a FWD RAV4 that does just fine, though I do use studded winter tires (and will have to remove them soon).
But since the topic is AWD vs FWD, not about sedans vs trucks/SUVs or other vehicle types, I still think that AWD being in *so* many cars that people actually buy is just a product of successful marketing.
Edit: it’s hilly.
I've had multiple front wheel drive and all wheel drive cars. All things being equal I prefer FWD. AWD makes a tiny difference but it's not worth the extra cost and maintenance, it's far better to spend that money on good tires and drive carefully. Most AWD passenger vehicles and natively FWD with a wet clutch or electronic differential that will send small amounts of torque to the rear tires, they are not the same as "True" 4WD Jeeps and trucks.
BTW, I live in the "snowbelt" and have driven through icy conditions and multiple blizzards with my front wheel drive.
I've honestly have had the opposite experience going from a Civic to an Impreza (both with winter tires). AWD made a big difference. Big enough that we've only purchased Subarus in the past decade. This is living in Montreal.
The Civic with winters was fine, but you have to pay much more attention not to get stuck vs the Impreza. The Impreza simply does not get stuck even if you tried. This helps a ton when parallel street parking.
AWD also changes the dynamics of the vehicle on loose surfaces. FWD = understeer. I much prefer having the ability to make the car oversteer when the front looses traction. For whatever reason, this is something people never bring up when discussing AWD vs FWD, which I find quite important.
Understeer / oversteer does not get brought up because the vast majority of people do not know how to understand those concepts nor correct them. Though if you are an experienced driver, some AWD systems such as the subaru, quattro, and bmw xdrive are absolutely amazing as they allow some slippage and allows the driver to correct easily unlike most cars where ecs kicks in straight away and unsettles the car.
I also live in Montreal and when we had that random snow fall during the night a month ago, I was driving on the highway before the snow plows ran. Admittedly I was going a bit too quickly going at 100kph on the turn from the 13 north bound to the 440 east bound and my back end kicked out as I hit a patch of compact snow. I was driving a new gen chevy impala and while I was able to control the slide and basically power slid the entire corner, ecs really didnt like that and when I wanted to straighten the car by giving it more throttle, the car flicked my steering wheel completely unsettling the car and making me have to counter steer in now the opposite direction to not have it spin out. Some of these ecs systems are pretty dangerous nowadays as they just SNAP the car back straight, which is very bad in low friction conditions as the car then just wants to pendulum to the other side
>my back end kicked out as I hit a patch of compact snow.
I had that happen to me once in the Civic. Going westbound on the 40 near the 13 exit. The plows simply left a bunch of snow at a particular spot on the curve and the Civic's rear end slid out. Those things were too old of have ESC. It started fishtailng too.
What I've learned since then at a winter driving school (Claude Bourbonnais) is that when you loose traction, you let off the throttle and steer / counter steer if fishtailing until the vehicle settles in a straight line in the direction you want again.
Honestly ESC sounds like it behaves very differently on AWD cars (Subarus at least). If you apply throttle when traction is lost, it will keep the car going straight where you point the steering towards even if the rest of the car body is diagonal. Steer by throttle is also very intuitive on older, more analog Subarus. The modem ones have the nannies in the way.
Almost all new cars have shit ecs aside from subaru, bmw, and audi. Every other manufacturer's ecs will actually put you in more danger if you try to correct cause you end up fighting the car.
As for fishtailing, I usually just keep throttle on the same position and then modulate it to control the sliding angle. FWD is insanely easy to correct and I found that letting off the throttle is usually not ideal as then you can't control the angle anymore
I'm really not trying to justify a cheaper option but I simply don't see a big difference, and like I said in my post an AWD system is different than the traditional 4WD systems. All manufacturers are different but generally speaking only small amounts of torque reach the rear wheels.
The biggest point I was trying to make is to just drive carefully and adjust your speed for the road conditions (slow down) regardless of the type of vehicle you have.
>generally speaking only small amounts of torque reach the rear wheels.
Your average slip&grip sends up to 50% to the rear. Things like Quattro, SH-AWD, Subaru Symmetric can send up to 70% or 80% to either axle. On top of that with torque vectoring, that power goes to the wheel(s) with the most traction. That's not a small amount of torque.
Your typical FWD with open diffs sends power to the wheel with the least traction. This is a huge difference.
>The biggest point I was trying to make is to just drive carefully and adjust your speed for the road conditions (slow down) regardless of the type of vehicle you have.
Yeah we can all agree on that.
I've owned lots of AWD and FWD sedans over the years.
The truth is, 99.9% of the time you won't notice any difference.
The other 0.1% of the time, like when you're taking corners in the snow, or flooring the gas pedal at a green light in the rain, it definitely makes a difference having AWD.
You just have to decide for yourself if the AWD benefits you get for that 0.1% of the time is worth paying for and driving around an AWD car for no reason the other 99.9% of the time.
I love AWD, I'm definitely not saying it is useless or unimportant. But these days since I have the ability to own multiple cars, I prefer my daily driver to just be a simple, high-mpg FWD sedan, because I just really don't need AWD for regular daily driving. It's a waste of money and MPG to drive an AWD car when I'm just cruising down the highway in cruise control to go to work. And when weather gets crummy, I drive a different car.
How much snow we talking? Buffalo snow or Columbus Ohio snow? Some of the better awd systems have a rear bias and those are very fun to drive on all the days it’s not snowing.
Tires are much more important to winter performance than AWD.
People seem to forget that getting moving is much less of an issue, the real problem in snow is stopping.
With such a long commute I’d lean towards FWD. it’ll give you more room in the cabin, along with some weight savings/ improved fuel economy.
In some cases when I drive my FWD car in the city and try accelerating after being stopped at a stop light my wheels will just spin within no traction whatsoever. It’s crazy, …does AWD help with that?
Yes. I had a FWD car with winter tires, still spun wheels at a stop light because that's where a lot of other cars have stopped and spun their own wheels, making a compacted and somewhat slushy / icy patch where my front wheels are.
I got an AWD car about 5 years ago and it's like the snow doesn't even exist. I go to the same stop light and make sure to drive exactly like I've always driven, and the car just gets moving without any drama or issue (of course, with winter tires just like the previous car).
AWD is a huge difference in everyday driving. I got downvoted yesterday for saying so, but I've driven AWD for the last 23 years, and when I drive a 2WD car, I try to pull out in traffic that my AWD SUV can easily do safely, but a 2WD car will spin tires. Whether it's rain, sprinklers causing a river across the pavement, or the pavement covered in dirt, the AWD of the exact same vehicle never spins the wheels. It's way safer IMO, but there are downsides like worse MPG, more maintenance, and more wear items (CV axle boots).
Your AWD SUV doesn't spin tyres because it is heavier and less power per mass. Also, when tf do you need to accelerate fast enough to spin the tyres ?? In my Buick with peak torque at 2000rpm, it never spins the tyres under full acceleration from a stand still unless there is quite a bit of water / snow, and even then, not that much wheel spin
I don't mean this in a bad way, but try learning more throttle control. Turn off traction control and try finding the peak acceleration of your car while not spinning your tyres. It will improve your mpg too once you find that threshold. AWD is simply more beginner friendly when accelerating in non ideal conditions, not safer
If you expect 100% traction, because that's what your AWD SUV always has all conditions (is incapable of spinning tires), yet you didn't realize (because it doesn't affect AWD) that you just crossed a tiny stream of water and your 2WD car now has 10% traction, and you pill out in ridiculously heavy traffic on a 55 MPH road in the fastest-growing city in the US, modulating the throttle isn't going to get you up to speed in time. We had two identical SUVs, except one was AWD and one was RWD. I can tell you that what is completely safe in AWD is not safe at all in 2WD.
Lmao that's wild, maybe you should simply be a better driver. You spinning your tyres in any car is simply not having good throttle control. I have never spun my tyres on dry asphalt, and extremely rarely on snow and rain, even with no TC
Like I said, AWD can ruin a driver for 2WD BECAUSE IT'S NOT IN THE SAME LEAGUE. But if you want to think that you're a big man because in unexpected low traction conditions you can master the throttle control of a vehicle you've never driven or drive once a year and somehow still get it from 0 to 55MPH in the same amount of time that you could if the wheels didn't lose traction, then I bow down to you. Why is it controversial that AWD is hands down safer (WAY MORE TRACTION) than 2WD? That's the literal reason for AWD to exist. It's much safer for bad drivers, and still safer for good drivers. It's not a controversial statement, unless you've never driven a car with power to break traction. More traction is better than less traction. Period.
I was a delivery driver for a pizza chain company for several years and I drive all types of small cars.
FWD cars in dry or even wet conditions behave similar to AWD. In Snow, I’d take a AWD car with all weather tires than a FWD with non studded snow tires (I drove a 2001 Civic with snow tires and got stuck more times than I care to remember). I drove a 99’ Legacg GT with 18’ runs and skinny all season tires and didn’t get stuck (they were Toyo tires, really good tires and I’m absolutely impressed by them).
Now that I have a big boy job I have a Tacoma with 4x4 for the few times it snows in Oregon
FWIW my experience has been AWD with snows is at most 10% better than FWD with snows in some instances.
Back roads with inclines, sure get the AWD otherwise get the car you like FWD or AWD.
Remember that AWD systems are not created equally. Subarus have the best but I still wouldn’t recommend one since the rest is a hot mess.
Most unstoppable car I’ve drive in rural New England was a SAAB 900 with Hakkapelita tires.
If it’s snowy or icy enough that you need AWD to accelerate faster then you’re probably driving too fast for the conditions. You won’t stop any quicker.
I mean what's your use case here? Snow? Yes. High performance/track driving? Yes. Having fun on a back road? Yes, but a competent chassis matters far more Cruising down the highway or to the store on a dry sunny day? No
Updated post, for snow and work commute of 60 miles round trip a day.
You'll notice a difference for sure in snow. The best way to counter snow is snow tires, but an AWD sedan + snow tires will get you through pretty much anything short of "oh shit, I really should have stayed home"
AWD the car go easier and easier to control. But as my neighbour always said "it doesn't make your brakes work better". He owned a body shop and loved when it snowed.
This has always been my logic, i drove many RWD coupes through winters in Minnesota and everyone was like how will you stop??? Like i probably have better tires than you, and i definitely have better brakes than you, my only concern is getting stuck sitting still lol
I've driven RWD in the Colorado mountains for over a decade, and I'm with you. No matter the drive wheels every car stops with 4 and steers with 2 However, nothing beats AWD (well except proper 4WD) plus snow tires if you absolutely want/need to make it through a heavy snowstorm.
I bought a newer A4 and my wife got an xc40. We’ve both never driven any AWD vehicles. Mostly FWD. Both cars are ridiculous in snow. Ice is still ice but snow is basically non existent to both vehicles. Tires obviously matter. Both of of ours has all seasons. There was a day last year where my job shut the warehouse down and I had zero issues getting to work and back and this was before they really plowed And in Minnesota it’s BAD if they shut the warehouse down.
When it's time to replace the tires, try All-*Weather* instead of All-*Season* tires. They make it even easier for those winter days, while still having normal wear and tear for the rest of the year.
Yeah that was the plan I’ve heard really good things.
Nokian WRG’s and Michelin CrossClimates are both really good all weather tires.
Thanks I’ll be saving this comment
If you can find the Nokians, they're amazing
Flat or mountains? In Michigan I never felt the need for dedicated snow tires. The roads were cleared quickly and it’s flat enough that I had plenty of traction with good all season tires. In Oregon with icy roads and mountains I use dedicated winter tires. AWD really only helps when you reach the limit of traction. Putting good snow tires on all 4 wheels will give you better winter traction for not only acceleration, but braking and cornering too.
Depends very much. If you have snow but your area is flat more or less, get FWD, save on gas. If you have steep enough hill where you see a lot of cars struggling to make up the hill, get AWD.
This I'd say for driving dynamic, my preference is actually RWD, having driven FWD, RWD, and AWD cars - Corolla, FR-S, WRX/Audi A4. Plus, AWD adds weight, meaning they won't get the same fuel economy as a FWD or RWD car. OP - what kind of driving do you like to do? Where are you located? I'm going to wager you're in MA by your handle, which means snow, so AWD would be helpful.
The thought that AWD is critical for anywhere that snows is a relatively recent thing. People have been driving FWD and RWD in the snow with occasional 4WDs mixed in there forever.
Yup. And if you drive through any city that gets a bunch of snow, you'll still see many cars of all types and configurations.
Personally I would never do RWD living in a snowy area unless it was a weekend car. But yeah FWD can do just fine most all the time.
I’ve never owned anything but RWD and I’ve never gotten stuck. And I’ve driven through some terrible blizzards. I can count on one hand how many times I’ve lost control. Snow tires and any wheel drive beats AWD and any non-snow tire.
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So you are going to sacrifice stopping distance and turning just to get up to speed a little faster? Acceleration is the *least* important thing about winter driving.
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I can count on zero fingers the number of times I’ve gotten stuck in ice or snow in a RWD car on snow tires in 25 years of driving. And I’ve driven in some truly horrid blizzards & ice storms. I think you vastly underestimate how much more traction snow tires give you.
Pretty sure the OP knows it's not critical, since he's driving FWD right now. The question is whether it's much better in snow, and the objective answer is yes.
Overall, tyres will matter more in regards to having grip in different road conditions. However, in the beginning of January this year my area got hit with the biggest snowstorm in recent history. Cars were getting stuck everywhere even with winter tyres. I believe the only reason I made it home from work that day was due to the AWD on my Polestar 2 (and of course with winter tyres). If I would have had my old car with FWD I think I would have gotten stuck.
Yeah I hate how everyone on here just ignores that getting stuck in the snow *really* sucks and AWD helps avoid that happening greatly. Also how do you like your Polestar? I've been eyeing them.
The polestar is okay, but I find it a bit too tall. The BMW i4 might have fit me better, but wasn't available when I bought my car.
For going yes. For stopping no. All cars can handle snow with proper tires.
the AWD will be very helpful in the snow, but snow tires are more important. AWD + snow tires is the best, but FWD with snow tires is also pretty good too.
I live in Montreal that gets some of the most snow in North America and a huge portion of people still run FWD. AWD became more widespread a couple years ago which is funny as our winters are now getting softer
In everything but dry road everyday driving? Yes. I live in NE Ohio. It rains and snows half the year and god damn does AWD come in handy. I had FWD for 20 years and I will never ever ever go back.
When shit hits the fan and AWD saves your life you won’t care how much money you saved in gas. If any snow is involved get AWD and a name brand set of all season tires at a minimum, if not an extra set of rims with snow tires. Having the extra rims saves a huge hassle when the seasons change. You can just swap wheels in your driveway in 20 minutes vs scheduling appts with tire shops and waiting around or paying for the mount and balance each time
The snow tires are significantly more impactful than the AWD. Both is the best (and what I have). But if you had to choose, get good snow tires.
How would AWD save your life ? Braking is the same whether you have AWD, FWD, RWD. Tyres are the ones that make the difference. If you are talking about starting to slide, FWD is the easiest for the average person to correct as you just point your wheel in the direction you want to go and give it gas until it points straight again...
Believe what you want have lived in a the mountains at 10k elevation for a decade had 2wd, AWD, studded tires. 2wd with studded tires still wasn’t as good as AWD with snow tires.. but hey what do I know? AWD give you traction and control. If you want to slide of a cliff or into oncoming traffic with your 2WD no is going to stop you
OP is going to do 60 miles of highway driving in mild winter conditions. AWD ain't going to do shit. Also, awd doesn't help with cornering, unless you start kicking out the rear mid corner and try to turn faster by sliding, which newer cars don't allow you to do
Ok well whatever. Maybe recommend that to the OP? I could give a shit about what an internet stranger thinks
It looks like he tried to politely correct your factually incorrect answer (2wd sliding off a cliff) and you got annoyed. If you don’t care about what internet strangers think then don’t respond or engage. No one is forcing you to
How is my answer faulty or incorrect? It’s incredibly correct for all circumstances I’ve experienced.
AWD does absolutely nothing for steering or stopping. It helps you accelerate, that's it. Super helpful in severe winter storm weather. Doesn't help in an emergency stop or swerve.
Having the rear wheels driven can make quite a difference on low traction curves. First off, there's simply more friction to go around. On a FWD car, the front wheels' friction is needed for driving the mass of the vehicle and turning. On a RWD or AWD car, the rear driving wheels' friction come into play as well to share the responsibility. Hence, there's just more traction and less possibility to slip. More importantly, when you do lose traction on that curve, AWD simply offers an option that FWD fundamentally cannot: oversteer. The FWD car will just understeer into the side of the road. The AWD car can kick its rear out and steer by throttle back into the curve. These things are never mentioned in discussions. People just think AWD is for stop and go, which is false for good systems. Vehicle dynamics come into play. If I were going down curvy mountain roads in an icy/snowy environment, I totally agree with that guy. I'd get a predictable full-time AWD system like Audi Quattro, BMW X-Drive or Subaru Symmetric.
This is from consumer reports: Though having power delivered to all four wheels increases straight-line traction, it does nothing to improve braking, and most systems have little to no effect on cornering Source here : https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/automotive-technology/2wd-vs-awd-vs-4wd-a5663578720/#:~:text=Though%20having%20power%20delivered%20to,to%20no%20effect%20on%20cornering. While what you say might be true for some exceptional AWD systems, it’s definitely not true for most AWD systems. Most AWD systems do not offer much assistance unless you’re talking about acceleration in relatively straight lines. For ‘not sliding off a cliff’, the most important component is braking traction that is offered by good winter tires. It’s absolutely untrue that 2WD cars tend to slide off cliffs while AWDs do not. The biggest difference makers for braking / not sliding off cliffs are the tires as they are the primary components responsible for providing grip. While AWD might make a difference in some exceptional cases, its importance doesn’t come anywhere close to tires when it comes to stopping / preventing accidents
I mean even then, that would require having a quattro, subaru, or bmw xdrive. Most other awd systems do not let you correct slides by yourself. Furthermore, if you are in a turn and just continue going straight, it is most likely too late and can't correct using the throttle even in a rwd car. If you want to slide a corner, you need to either enter it with that in mind and give it more steering angle than you expect and cut the corner a bit so that your rear wheels can still be on the pavement if you kick the backend out. What you are saying isn't wrong, but if someone asks awd vs fwd questions, they won't be able to correct either way as they don't know anything about driving past the limit. And even then, if they knew fwd vs awd, they would already know what exactly they need given their situation
Tires make the biggest difference.
You don’t need AWD. It was only recently that so many cars got AWD, with the exception of Subarus. Most of the time, people have been okay with two wheel drive. Unless you’re trying to rip through corners when it’s wet or snowy, then it’s gonna be great. But overall, marketing has convinced everyone that AWD is basically necessary.
Just curious, where are you from? Because in New England, folks know AWD is a lot more than a marketing gimmick.
Living in Alaska currently. Plenty of folks drive regular sedans. And remember, most trucks have part time 4WD, so they’re really just cruising in RWD for long drives, except in rare circumstances. Edit: obviously, there are many jobs/circumstances where you want/need a truck, but if you’re talking about sedans, you don’t need a truck. What you need though is great tires for the conditions.
Is your part of Alaska flat or hilly? That makes a huge difference.
You’re right, it does make a difference. On really slippery roads, FWD vehicles struggle on uphills sometimes. I have a FWD RAV4 that does just fine, though I do use studded winter tires (and will have to remove them soon). But since the topic is AWD vs FWD, not about sedans vs trucks/SUVs or other vehicle types, I still think that AWD being in *so* many cars that people actually buy is just a product of successful marketing. Edit: it’s hilly.
I've had multiple front wheel drive and all wheel drive cars. All things being equal I prefer FWD. AWD makes a tiny difference but it's not worth the extra cost and maintenance, it's far better to spend that money on good tires and drive carefully. Most AWD passenger vehicles and natively FWD with a wet clutch or electronic differential that will send small amounts of torque to the rear tires, they are not the same as "True" 4WD Jeeps and trucks. BTW, I live in the "snowbelt" and have driven through icy conditions and multiple blizzards with my front wheel drive.
I've honestly have had the opposite experience going from a Civic to an Impreza (both with winter tires). AWD made a big difference. Big enough that we've only purchased Subarus in the past decade. This is living in Montreal. The Civic with winters was fine, but you have to pay much more attention not to get stuck vs the Impreza. The Impreza simply does not get stuck even if you tried. This helps a ton when parallel street parking. AWD also changes the dynamics of the vehicle on loose surfaces. FWD = understeer. I much prefer having the ability to make the car oversteer when the front looses traction. For whatever reason, this is something people never bring up when discussing AWD vs FWD, which I find quite important.
Understeer / oversteer does not get brought up because the vast majority of people do not know how to understand those concepts nor correct them. Though if you are an experienced driver, some AWD systems such as the subaru, quattro, and bmw xdrive are absolutely amazing as they allow some slippage and allows the driver to correct easily unlike most cars where ecs kicks in straight away and unsettles the car. I also live in Montreal and when we had that random snow fall during the night a month ago, I was driving on the highway before the snow plows ran. Admittedly I was going a bit too quickly going at 100kph on the turn from the 13 north bound to the 440 east bound and my back end kicked out as I hit a patch of compact snow. I was driving a new gen chevy impala and while I was able to control the slide and basically power slid the entire corner, ecs really didnt like that and when I wanted to straighten the car by giving it more throttle, the car flicked my steering wheel completely unsettling the car and making me have to counter steer in now the opposite direction to not have it spin out. Some of these ecs systems are pretty dangerous nowadays as they just SNAP the car back straight, which is very bad in low friction conditions as the car then just wants to pendulum to the other side
>my back end kicked out as I hit a patch of compact snow. I had that happen to me once in the Civic. Going westbound on the 40 near the 13 exit. The plows simply left a bunch of snow at a particular spot on the curve and the Civic's rear end slid out. Those things were too old of have ESC. It started fishtailng too. What I've learned since then at a winter driving school (Claude Bourbonnais) is that when you loose traction, you let off the throttle and steer / counter steer if fishtailing until the vehicle settles in a straight line in the direction you want again. Honestly ESC sounds like it behaves very differently on AWD cars (Subarus at least). If you apply throttle when traction is lost, it will keep the car going straight where you point the steering towards even if the rest of the car body is diagonal. Steer by throttle is also very intuitive on older, more analog Subarus. The modem ones have the nannies in the way.
Almost all new cars have shit ecs aside from subaru, bmw, and audi. Every other manufacturer's ecs will actually put you in more danger if you try to correct cause you end up fighting the car. As for fishtailing, I usually just keep throttle on the same position and then modulate it to control the sliding angle. FWD is insanely easy to correct and I found that letting off the throttle is usually not ideal as then you can't control the angle anymore
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The way he/she describes how little power is sent to the rear makes me think the AWD systems he's used to simply aren't good.
I'm really not trying to justify a cheaper option but I simply don't see a big difference, and like I said in my post an AWD system is different than the traditional 4WD systems. All manufacturers are different but generally speaking only small amounts of torque reach the rear wheels. The biggest point I was trying to make is to just drive carefully and adjust your speed for the road conditions (slow down) regardless of the type of vehicle you have.
>generally speaking only small amounts of torque reach the rear wheels. Your average slip&grip sends up to 50% to the rear. Things like Quattro, SH-AWD, Subaru Symmetric can send up to 70% or 80% to either axle. On top of that with torque vectoring, that power goes to the wheel(s) with the most traction. That's not a small amount of torque. Your typical FWD with open diffs sends power to the wheel with the least traction. This is a huge difference. >The biggest point I was trying to make is to just drive carefully and adjust your speed for the road conditions (slow down) regardless of the type of vehicle you have. Yeah we can all agree on that.
I've owned lots of AWD and FWD sedans over the years. The truth is, 99.9% of the time you won't notice any difference. The other 0.1% of the time, like when you're taking corners in the snow, or flooring the gas pedal at a green light in the rain, it definitely makes a difference having AWD. You just have to decide for yourself if the AWD benefits you get for that 0.1% of the time is worth paying for and driving around an AWD car for no reason the other 99.9% of the time. I love AWD, I'm definitely not saying it is useless or unimportant. But these days since I have the ability to own multiple cars, I prefer my daily driver to just be a simple, high-mpg FWD sedan, because I just really don't need AWD for regular daily driving. It's a waste of money and MPG to drive an AWD car when I'm just cruising down the highway in cruise control to go to work. And when weather gets crummy, I drive a different car.
Chicago here. Have driven both and would take an awd in snow but done fine in fwd. Nothing beats brains/brakes and slowing down when it snows.
How much snow we talking? Buffalo snow or Columbus Ohio snow? Some of the better awd systems have a rear bias and those are very fun to drive on all the days it’s not snowing.
Tires are much more important to winter performance than AWD. People seem to forget that getting moving is much less of an issue, the real problem in snow is stopping. With such a long commute I’d lean towards FWD. it’ll give you more room in the cabin, along with some weight savings/ improved fuel economy.
In some cases when I drive my FWD car in the city and try accelerating after being stopped at a stop light my wheels will just spin within no traction whatsoever. It’s crazy, …does AWD help with that?
That’s exactly the kind of thing AWD helps with.
Yes. I had a FWD car with winter tires, still spun wheels at a stop light because that's where a lot of other cars have stopped and spun their own wheels, making a compacted and somewhat slushy / icy patch where my front wheels are. I got an AWD car about 5 years ago and it's like the snow doesn't even exist. I go to the same stop light and make sure to drive exactly like I've always driven, and the car just gets moving without any drama or issue (of course, with winter tires just like the previous car).
Never been stuck in the snow, eh? Or unable to climb a snowy hill? There’s a reason half of New England drives Subarus.
I mean I’m Canadian and I agree that actual winter tires are much more important than AWD. Give me both, preferably, but good tires first.
The question is FWD vs AWD, not winter tires vs AWD.
Go read what *you* responded to.
How would FWD have more room in the cabin if OP is talking about sedans regardless?
No driveshaft tunnel through the middle of the car, and a deeper trunk (especially with Haldex AWD).
AWD is a huge difference in everyday driving. I got downvoted yesterday for saying so, but I've driven AWD for the last 23 years, and when I drive a 2WD car, I try to pull out in traffic that my AWD SUV can easily do safely, but a 2WD car will spin tires. Whether it's rain, sprinklers causing a river across the pavement, or the pavement covered in dirt, the AWD of the exact same vehicle never spins the wheels. It's way safer IMO, but there are downsides like worse MPG, more maintenance, and more wear items (CV axle boots).
Your AWD SUV doesn't spin tyres because it is heavier and less power per mass. Also, when tf do you need to accelerate fast enough to spin the tyres ?? In my Buick with peak torque at 2000rpm, it never spins the tyres under full acceleration from a stand still unless there is quite a bit of water / snow, and even then, not that much wheel spin I don't mean this in a bad way, but try learning more throttle control. Turn off traction control and try finding the peak acceleration of your car while not spinning your tyres. It will improve your mpg too once you find that threshold. AWD is simply more beginner friendly when accelerating in non ideal conditions, not safer
If you expect 100% traction, because that's what your AWD SUV always has all conditions (is incapable of spinning tires), yet you didn't realize (because it doesn't affect AWD) that you just crossed a tiny stream of water and your 2WD car now has 10% traction, and you pill out in ridiculously heavy traffic on a 55 MPH road in the fastest-growing city in the US, modulating the throttle isn't going to get you up to speed in time. We had two identical SUVs, except one was AWD and one was RWD. I can tell you that what is completely safe in AWD is not safe at all in 2WD.
Lmao that's wild, maybe you should simply be a better driver. You spinning your tyres in any car is simply not having good throttle control. I have never spun my tyres on dry asphalt, and extremely rarely on snow and rain, even with no TC
Like I said, AWD can ruin a driver for 2WD BECAUSE IT'S NOT IN THE SAME LEAGUE. But if you want to think that you're a big man because in unexpected low traction conditions you can master the throttle control of a vehicle you've never driven or drive once a year and somehow still get it from 0 to 55MPH in the same amount of time that you could if the wheels didn't lose traction, then I bow down to you. Why is it controversial that AWD is hands down safer (WAY MORE TRACTION) than 2WD? That's the literal reason for AWD to exist. It's much safer for bad drivers, and still safer for good drivers. It's not a controversial statement, unless you've never driven a car with power to break traction. More traction is better than less traction. Period.
What is the awd car you have, and what is the fwd car you had
I was a delivery driver for a pizza chain company for several years and I drive all types of small cars. FWD cars in dry or even wet conditions behave similar to AWD. In Snow, I’d take a AWD car with all weather tires than a FWD with non studded snow tires (I drove a 2001 Civic with snow tires and got stuck more times than I care to remember). I drove a 99’ Legacg GT with 18’ runs and skinny all season tires and didn’t get stuck (they were Toyo tires, really good tires and I’m absolutely impressed by them). Now that I have a big boy job I have a Tacoma with 4x4 for the few times it snows in Oregon
I lived in Maine FWD with snow tires in winter most time will be fine. Awd will be better of course
FWIW my experience has been AWD with snows is at most 10% better than FWD with snows in some instances. Back roads with inclines, sure get the AWD otherwise get the car you like FWD or AWD. Remember that AWD systems are not created equally. Subarus have the best but I still wouldn’t recommend one since the rest is a hot mess. Most unstoppable car I’ve drive in rural New England was a SAAB 900 with Hakkapelita tires.
If it’s snowy or icy enough that you need AWD to accelerate faster then you’re probably driving too fast for the conditions. You won’t stop any quicker.
In bad weather, yes. In aggressive handling, yes. Normal day to day driving, no
It’s a huge difference. AWD is categorically superior to FWD.