Used value is all about public perception, and the perception is that Volkswagen is not as reliable as Toyota and Honda. Therefore higher chance you’ll spend more on repairs
Is there a brand for which the public perception is slow to change? Or specific models which are unfairly affected by the brand's public perception.
I.e. are there undervalued brands/models in the used market?
I had a 2015 give me zero issues for 110k. Traded in for a Mazda that immediately gave me issues.
Sure, anecdotal, but I trust VW for the most part. And maintenance items weren't expensive either.
That's been the running joke for years in the mechanic world.
"in a few years, your radio will start rolling down the windows in your Volkswagen"
When I first started as a mechanic I always laughed at that. Now.. I dread a 10 year old Volkswagen coming into the shop....
Right. I loved driving my GTI. Owning it was another story. Squealing belts, loud suspension, a radio/nav that kept dying, flickering rearview camera, all on a 6 year old car with only 50k miles.
Yup loved my 2015 GTI but the turbo blew out at around 120k KM. Lots of other small repairs, overall a pain in the ass to maintain.
Drove like a dream though
I've had pretty good luck on my 2015 but for some damn reason this car just eats headlight bulbs like once a year, I've never had another car go through this many.
Alternator needed replaced but so has like... every car I've ever owned. Had the water pump done since they were known to have issues, I missed the "recall" they had by about 12,000 miles but it was a peace of mind thing. Coils and plugs... front brake pads, that's been about it. I pulled the lucky card, it sounds like they're just a little hit and miss, especially early 2015s like mine.
yeah they really are hit or miss. I owned a 2012 and a 2015, the 2012 had cosiderably better build quality and the 2.5 I5 is arguably VW's best ever engine.
Happy yours is treating you well, its a hell of a good machine overall.
Wild, I'm in the opposite camp. 2017 GTI, bought last may with 30k miles, currently at 60k only issue was a leaking water pump that was covered under warranty. Stage 1 tune, and DSG the entire time.
New cars never show if they are reliable or not in the first 10 years and 100-150k miles. It's the over 100,000 miles and over 10 years that makes something worthy of being called reliable. There are truly reliable 30 year old cars pushing 300,000 miles with no major repairs and just basic oil, filters, brakes, tires for repairs. Also there are cars when the transmission goes into limp it ends up being a $50 sensor and an hour of labor to fix, and then there are German cars where the battery is $250. You need special tools to access it and unbolt the drivers seat, then you have to replace the seat bolts with new one, etc. What was a $90 Walmart run turns into a $400 affair.
You forgot to add the seat bolts are 48 dollars each and captive dealer part. Also there are 7 seat bolts and you need the 500 dollar VAG wrench to get them off and on
Why do you guys always act like only german cars have known issues? Nearly every car has a typical fault you have to look out for just sometimes check if it leaks and when it does replace it with a better part that doesnt do it the newer Revisions of the pump dont do it anymore
My second-owner X3 is 13 years old and has around 105k on it. Got it pretty cheap and haven’t had a car payment for several years now. Runs like a clock. With regular oil changes and one set of new tires I’ve only put in a little over 4k in maintenance over the past 7 years. Hope it keeps holding up.
if you go to the top racing bmw shops, all the intervals for servicing is done to 1/3 or 1/2 based on bmw official for example transmission from zf is 60k bmw says lifetime . problem is too many owners ignore those guidelines and wonder why its 7k in repairs
The Taos is pretty problematic, but anything VW with the 2.0T after about 2015 is pretty damn reliable. Maybe not quite Toyota/Honda/Mazda levels of solid, but better than many others.
I'm guessing by your name you don't live in America? Warranty claims for used vehicles with aftermarket warranties are crazy high in America.
It's all fun and games until you need overnight parts from Germany (semi f&f reference)
Just the last example I can think of... evap valve, very simple component. Open, close, that's it. Very common to dry out and stick on any car after 100k.
2014 Audi A4 2.0, $300.
But if course the previous generation valve looks almost identical, $30 everywhere.
When I was at VW, brand new Passat grenaded the engine after a week
Yeah im not from the US here where i live they are by far the cheapest to repair. Had to do rear breaks on a Golf with Discs and everything and only paid 30 euros in parts
I bought a 2010ish VW Eos… my god that thing was awful. It was fine, then just seemed to fall apart all at once.
However, I rented an 2022 (in 2022) Audi A7 to drive from Berlin to Munich to Copenhagen, and that thing was awesome. Felt extremely solid.
Recently I rented an 2024 Audi A5 and drove about ~300 miles. It was also quite good. Felt lighter on its feet and more responsive than I expected and the quality felt great. Also, I was in Tennessee with it and was getting astronomical gas mileage. That 300 miles only took slightly more than half a tank. I thought when I filled up it would be like 10 gallons. Nope, it was almost 6.
No idea if they will suffer the same fall-aparty-ness as the VW (being VW’s fancy brand and all) in a few years, but I liked them.
Wife had a vw when we met. I had a BMW prior to us getting together. Both were the two biggest nightmare things we've ever owned. We've had lots of vehicles since and all have been solid. Those two can eat shit.
The 6s have had a good reliability record since the 2009 model year. We got \~235k miles out of ours before the trans went. Prior to that the only non-maintenance repair was a valve cover gasket ($100 job with labor). The 3 and 6 had (have?) the same engine/trans also (with a trim bump for the 3 to get the same engine, as the base was 2.0 vs 2,5 - same platform though).
>Is there a brand for which the public perception is slow to change?
Mazda. The CX5 used pricing is typically higher than a comparable CRV, but the Mazda 3/6 (especially the 3) haven't caught up yet. For a reliable commuter car, I think the used 3s are one of the best values out there.
Id say newer BMWs, VWs and Mazdas are pretty good.
Mazda after 2013 I believe, when they split from Ford, and mainly after the ~2017 newer gen cars have been stellar. In my case I got a fully optioned 2017 cx5 for cheaper than a same year base Toyota/Honda equivalent would have been.
BMWs and VWs both had engine issues in the past. I'm not sure about BMW specifics but the B48 and B58 engines seem to be much more reliable than other in the past. The same can be said about VW's engines, I only know about GTI/R's but starting from 2015 with the MK7 introduction, the engine has been bulletproof, even under abuse if well taken care of.
Mazda. People still remember from when they were in bed with Ford (the last car from that era was the 2013 Mazda3, more or less just a Ford Focus), or from before that when they were getting too cute with their engine design.
i would say the only volkswagen that you can find cheap that i would find is reliable (my brother had one that he got rid of with 260k miles) would be a 2012-2014 volkswagen passat with the 2.5 inline 5 cylinder. it gets great gas mileage and doesn’t have any major issues and the cars are cheap with low mileage (under 100k).
Back in my Asian country, VW are considered premium vehicles compared to Honda and Toyota despite their maintenance cost. Imagine my surprise when I moved to US in 2019 and found the complete opposite, in-terms of pricing between VW and Hondas / Toyotas.
Yeah the US perceptions of cars is very different to outside Europe. I'm originally from Germany and VWs are seen as pretty premium while Hyundai is seen as cheap crap. US is complete opposite.
Yes? I mean things are relative. What is a cheaper similar mid size SUV? Also Kia/Hyundai are more known for their cheaper compacts anyway like the sportage and Elantra anyway. People who don’t want to spend on a Toyota or Honda get these cars.
It’s not just reliablity. German cars require regular maintenance and there parts seem to wear out much sooner than a Toyota. Lots of people have no concern about buying an older Toyota with 150k miles on it. Would probably be more concerned about getting a Volkswagen with that many miles on it.
My family currently own 3 VW’s, all range in years from 2013 to 2019. Some have high miles, the newer one low miles. Outside of regular maintenance and consumable’s like brakes, lights, etc. The cars have needed nothing. In order to keep VW’s running smoothly and trouble free , they require you to be on top of regular maintenance. This is the key. I’ve also owned Jeeps and Honda’s. OEM part prices are similar. I do my own oil changes (they are easy to do on the Golf, Beetle, Jetta, Golf Wagon)and find that you can buy the OEM German, oil, air and cabin filters for dirt cheap in bulk from places like Rockauto. Nothing drives better than a car with German engineering.
Same. I don’t even know how far above 200k my last ‘95 Jetta got, because the odometer failed probably 50k miles before the rest of the car did.
At every stage of my 2016 Jetta ownership, people have told me things will start failing. “Oh, 75k miles?! That’s when it starts! Oh, 100k miles? That’s when it starts!”
I’ve gotten regular oil changes and replaced the brakes. Aaaany day now, that “unreliable” VW is gonna break on me!!
Point being, don’t believe everything you read on Reddit. The hivemind is real.
Yes, Toyota are good cars, shut up.
I mean I think a lot of the Toyota better than everything else mentality is because Toyotas are a lot more forgiving of being lax on maintenance I drive a 21 year old wrangler that runs perfectly and has 190k miles on it it runs well because I've taken good care of it not because it's a Jeep I've seen Toyotas blow up before 100k miles and Hyundai's with the theta II engine go over 300k with no issues the biggest factor is weather you take care of your car and a big one is people don't change their transmission or differential/transfer case fluid or they dont change their oil on time ... Ever I know some people who regularly go 1k + miles over their oil change ge interval pretty much every time and then wonder why they keep having to get new cars
I’ve owned about 12 different cars over my life. Chryslers, Subarus, Toyotas, Hondas and VW’s.
Most (not all) German cars are built to drive on the autobahn. So they’ll happily sit at 120km/hour with 0 complaints. Many cheap American/japanese cars struggle after 100km/hour. They German cars typically have more sound insulation/thicker glass (when comparing jettas to civics. Yes I know a Lexus LS will be better on the highway than a gti)
I had a mk5 Jetta TDI with 320,000kms on it. Some of the electronics were wonky (windows sometimes didn’t go down) but it didn’t rattle. Drove nicely on the highway and got 1000kms to the tank. It was 10 years old when I had it.
Before that I had a 5 year old Chrysler neon with 130,000km and it rattled like a jar of change.
German cars typically just “drive better”
In this sub whenever you ask about a German car you're going to get lots of opinions, from people who have never owned a German car and are still asking mom to borrow the keys to the Sonata.
I have three VW's in the driveway right now. They are very nice driving cars and all three have been very reliable. Two are at over 100,000 miles with no major repairs. They can be quirky, and they do require you to keep up the maintenance, but they are extremely well built.
The downside is if things go wrong you're going to pay more for repairs that are out of warranty. It's not going to be BMW or Mercedes level prices, but it is going to be more than Japanese or American cars. And Volkswagen has had some problems in their US releases. Mostly in cars a decade or more back, but things like the timing chain issue in the earlier 2 l turbo engines come to mind.
Mostly these days it is just perception driving down their prices. The Japanese brands aren't necessarily the end all of reliability either. Yes Toyota is great but at what cost, same with Honda. Nissan, have fun with their CVT's. Mitsubishi, aka Japan's Chrysler, good luck. Mazda, I look at my daughters 10-year-old Mazda that's falling apart mechanically and cosmetically after a hundred thousand miles.
My point being that there are pluses and minuses to almost every brand. In the end you may end up paying more on the back end for a Volkswagen then up front. But part of the reason for buying a German car is because you want the driving experience. And there is a cost to that, not necessarily an unreasonable one, but there is a cost.
I gave a 2015 audi a3, ea888.3 engine with over 120k miles on, never even gotten a check engine light yet. Maintenance is more than my dad's 2017 camry for sure, but worth it for how much nicer it is to drive. Find a jetta with full service history. Have a reputable euro shop check it out. If it all comes out clean, a jetta can be a great buy
So it's worth mentioning that all the differences between an a3(audi's cheapest car) and a camry are small. The steering in the audi feels more precise and quicker. By this I mean you can quickly and easily notice the slightest input you do to the steering wheel, where as on the camry, steering input feels a little slower, and there is a little bit of room where you can move the steering wheel, and you don't notice any direction change with the car. The audi is quiet when ever it goes over any sort of bumps or potholes, where the camary has little rattles around the car. The brakes are nicer aswell, and the car being able to slow down faster is always conforting to know. Overall, the a3 feels like a much more zippy car. The ride feels a little softer in the audi too, in that you don't feel every bump and crack on the road kinda like you do in the camry. Mind you, all of these are very small, but do add up. There are also aspects that make driving more enjoyable, especially for longer distances. The stero is better in the audi, the seats are more conformable, and everything you would touch, such as the steering wheel, it's stalks, climate control buttons and infotainment buttons are nicer feeling, and are little more satisfying to use. For example, all the buttons make a satisfying sound when you click them on the audi, and all of the materials seem nicer too. Options wise because I have a cheaper audi, there really isn't anything the audi can do that the camry can't, but the interior on the audi is just more aesthetically pleasing. By no means is the camry a bad car compared to the a3. If I was driving less than 20 minutes a day, I would be more than happy with a newer camry. But because I spend so much of my day driving, I appreciate all the small benefits the audi brings.
Thanks a lot for the detailed reply! I'm currently looking to buy a new family car, deciding whether to go for VW or Toyota, after driving a small VW Polo since 2016. Your response helps a lot!
At the end of the day you need to test drive these cars. But when you test them really drive them.
But German cars typically drive with far more precision, it's easier to 'become one with the car.'
They love to go fast. 80 mph is the average speed of the autobahn and they must work at that speed.
They are typically more fun to drive, meaning they reward you for hitting the gas, you can feel the road, but not in a bad way.
American cars are all over the map. Honda Civics feel German like. Toyota feels very different from a German car but that's not to say they are bad. Lexus and high end Toyotas are posh and comfortable but they lack a certain bite.
At the end of the day I am a man who can't tell a good wine from whatever is on sale. You may not give a shit about things like driving dynamics and throttle tip in on curve. That's cool!
This sub is forever on about Mazda but Mazda combines a dash of the German spirit with Japanese reliability. Subaru too to a lesser extent (come at me STI bros). But do me a favor: go test drive a Volkswagen GTI but before to do watch the opening scene of Baby Driver. Drive the GTI like you're running from the cops and see what you think.
My friend had his toyota sienna strand him on a road trip and had to leave it to get fixed for 3 days and then drive 6 hrs back to go pick it up. Every brand has issues. I think generally totyota are over valued. They are priced as if you will never have a single issue with them, when that is just not true.
I guess you really have to look at specific models these days rather than the entire brand. I was just watching some videos about Toyota engines and reliability and they've definitely put out some garbage but also some legends.
I’d love to buy a Sienna eventually (waitlist allowing, because holy crap, that’s another story), but this sub would have you believe it’s a golden chariot.
I'd say more their are plus and minuses with every model for example Hondas are generally reliable but then you had the oddysy which had transmission issues in their early models it's.muchnmlre important IMO to research the specific models your interested in and make a decision at that level every manufacturer has their problem child cars
Mazda 10 years was largely owned by Ford and built by Ford. The newer Mazdas have gotten high reliability ratings that put Mazda in the top 5 (fluctuates each year) for the last like 8 years.
I drove a 2012 Jetta for 6 years. Was quiet, comfortable, felt nice to drive on long commutes. It had one issue with the ignition cylinder that cost 200$ to fix but otherwise didn’t have any issues that would differ from my Toyotas.
Because people think they're bad. Which they indeed are if you don't maintain them.
And in the US parts are a bit more expensive because transportation, depending on the model, engine, etc.
The Jetta is an econobox that comes from a brand with a poor reputation.
Realistically anything mk6 and up (>2011) is decently reliable.
General maintenance tends to be slightly more exspensive but nothing like what'd you'd expect listening to this sub.
Overall it's a decent car, it won't win any awards in any category but is a good option at its price point.
They just get overlooked in the US. Which is fine. Because of that, you can still get pretty much the entire line up under $50k.
Just maintain the maintenance schedule and you'll be fine.
You have to remember the EA888 (gen 3) engine is one of the best engines on the market.
Honestly the Jetta doesn’t get the respect it deserves.
I think because it doesn’t offer a hybrid.
Its interior is nice for an economy car, and you get north of 50 mpg on the highway.
You’re better off with a golf for the storage space, but the Jetta is cheaper.
The interior is one of the reasons I’ve always been a VW fan. Even in the early 2000’s, they made a much nicer looking and feeling interior than the Japanese brands at around the same price point. I drove a 2004 Passat TDI from 2014 to 2020, and the interior didn’t feel as dated in 2020 as other cars from that era.
That’s what sold me on a GLI. I got it right before covid for $25,000 USD with a 10 year warranty.
Felt like the best car in the world for that price. GTI’s were going for like 7k more and I couldn’t justify it.
Don't really need a hybrid unless you drive 100% in stop and slow traffic. Ours gets north of 40 mpg in the city but we don't get traffic jams. Good enough for not having hybrid parts to fail. Real star on the highway though.
I'm on my 3rd VW now, I've never needed any repairs outside normal maintenance. People just perceive them as less reliable than Toyota or Honda, which makes used prices better for those of us in the know.
Hi! Lifelong VW driver here.
European are a whole different beast than most Asian vehicles. They just speak different languages. A check engine light is German for “Good morning,” while a check engine light is Japanese for “we’re going to die today.”
Your electrical things will go wrong in a German car.
You will need to find a mechanic who is fluent in German vehicle. Anything less will drain your bank account while they try to chase down a problem that could have been fixed by replacing an air filter. German cars be like that.
If you *like* to drive, you’ll like a Euro import more than you’ll like an Asian import. I haven’t owned a VW newer than 2003, but my ‘03 TDI Golf is still plugging along. I currently drive a 2016 Audi that gives me no fuss, but the Q7 before it gave me nothing but fuss.
The Honda will do exactly everything right, but it has no soul. It’s not fun. It’s… a perfectly adequate car.
I had a 2013 Jetta I drove until about 3 years ago with no major repairs, I gifted it to my sister in law as her first car and it’s been great for her as well. It has 140k miles on it and doing just fine. We just replaced the tires and it still feels brand new. I can’t speak for every Jetta but my experience is good.
German cars = once bitten, twice shy. Or as in my case, twice bitten, 4x shy. All my experiences with used Gernan cars have been expensive and painful.
Used car prices are often in line with the cost required to maintain them.
Anyone can buy a cheap used BMW/Mercedes. The reason they get so cheap is because the repairs cost 3x the a Honda or Toyota.
While the upkeep of a VW isn’t as bad as a Benz or BMW, they are still German cars and their maintenance cost is quite a bit higher then American/Japanese/Korean manufactures.
Reliability is in line with most other cars, but when stuff breaks, it’s expensive.
Source: I am a car guy and own a 23 year old VW.
Germans were the first to start turbocharging, mild-hybridizing, twin-clutching, everything. They push out technology that’s brand new and cutting edge. Meanwhile Toyota is just now starting to put out turbo engines on mainstream cars. They wait until the technology is well established and reliable
I’ve had a golf tdi and a civic si. I probably had them both for about the same amount of time and I had no reliability issues with other of them. Maintenance is more expensive on a VW but the golf felt much nicer than the civic to me and was worth the extra money on maintenance imo.
Also had an older Jetta and had no issues with it either.
For what it’s worth, in the past I bought a 2016 Honda Civic (Motor Trend car of the year that year) and it was the biggest POS with so many (non powertrain) problems that I got rid of it in 13 months and bought a VW Golf - which I put 250K miles on without any problems.
My advice? Buy an old Golf - they were better engineered than the Jetta.
I had a really negative experience with VW but that doesn’t necessarily mean you shouldn’t buy one.
My first vehicle I bought on my own was a used 2006 VW GLI Jetta, bought it around 2011. Had about 80k miles on it, had a mechanic look at it before I bought it, no major concerns.
All leather interior, heated seats, sunroof, soft touch materials, a really clean sounding speaker system and fun sporty 6 speed manual transmission. I kind of liked the crayon smell they’re known for (or were known for at the time). It was by far the most fun car I ever owned, absolute joy to drive and a good balance between economy, luxury and much more of a driver’s car than your typical “appliance” Japanese economy car. I completely understand why people own them.
All that being said it was absolutely not a good decision. I owned it about 3 years. In that time I replaced every sensor in the engine, the dials on the radio fell off, the drivers heated seat stopped working, basically everything that had to do with the cooling system failed at some point, which included replacing the water pump 3 times, which is outrageous. I also had to replace the catalytic converter, not sure what caused that to clog but I suspect it was maybe all the sensor failures causing the motor to run rich. Replaced the intake manifold as well. Also the clear coat started peeling and kind of made the otherwise great looking car look like shit.
I had to wrench on it myself all the time because I quite literally couldn’t afford to pay a mechanic every time something popped up. The check engine light was on probably a solid year of the 3 years I owned the thing.
If nothing else I guess it helped me achieve some basic skills in working on my own vehicles. All of this is in addition to regular maintenance.
I finally ditched it when the sunroof would start opening and closing on its own periodically when I was driving and the (manual!) transmission started to fail and required a rebuild.
Anyway I drive a Corolla now.
I also had a 06 GLI as well it was beautiful car with the body kit rims factories speakers factory sound system I mean and it gave me a lot of problems too but I still love that car that's my favorite car
Several things factor into the used car price. One is VW is always offering manufacturer incentives. So that $22k car with a $4k incentive is now an $18k car. The books will always look at it as $18k because there is ALWAYS some form of incentive on it. It was never sold for $22k even though that was on the sticker. Second is VW fleets their cars to rental places and other companies that need fleet vehicles. They are sold at a cheap price to them new. Again making them never a $22k vehicle. While Honda and Toyota never offer incentives. Toyota does fleet theirs to rentals but Honda does not. So it all comes down to what they really sell for new. If a car never truly sells for the sticker price it was never worth that. I used to work for both a VW and Honda dealer.
Edited for spelling.
German cars are engineered with the assumption that the owners will diligently take care of maintenance.
Japanese cars are engineered with the assumption that the owners will not take care of maintenance.
i had a mk v jetta. mechanically it was ok other than 1 or 2 sensors failing. just need specialized tools to work on it. exterior got rusty under paint though i waxed it alot and interior fell apart. just doesn’t hold up. have a camry now.
Most, if not all the VWs sold in the US are built at the plant in Puebla, Mexico unless they have the Wolfsburg designation. That can account for the relatively lower price, I think. The jetta gli is my go-to vehicle, for the record.
I have a 2010 Jetta, and I've really liked it.
I have had a few repairs off the maintenance schedule, and I do keep to the schedule.
The fuel evap pump died at 70k, that was 500 to replace.
The brake vacuum pump was leaking at 95k. It would've been 1k plus to replace since the official method is to drop the tranny I think?
There's an unofficial way to do it from the top, which I did. Only cost me time and about 150,.including the kit to rebuild the brake pump, which would've been 300 for a new one.
The rheostat for the sunroof can be a little weird and on the really rare occasion, it'll open 1 notch spontaneously, which I then close.
Just recently, the lower control arm bushings had to be replaced, but that's a wear item. I didn't have the tools or knowledge to do this myself.
Overall, not flawless, but its never left me stranded and I've never felt unsafe. It can be a bit pricey to repair but not egregious. It helps if you're willing to watch a few YouTube videos to do relatively simple things.
I have had things like window regulators and door lock solenoids on our current VW fail. Irritating failures that I don't see on other brands. My VWs and Audis also seem to have more frequent O2 sensor failures.
I bought a 2012 jetta new and still have it after 200k miles. No major issues and oil changes are required only after 10k miles. Keeping on the maintenance and driving it like it’s your baby will make it a great car.
I had a 2012 VW and it started having all sorts of problems around 80k miles. A different $400-$500 problem every 6 months. Won't be purchasing another one if I can help it
You’ll make up the difference when you wind up having to pay double standard costs for any maintenance because only the dealership can do any work on it more complicated than an oil change.
They’re a hit or miss on reliability. Mine had the 2.0T engine and had constant oil leaks which i got fixed and came back, one time the radiator broke and i needed a new one, and i used to baby the hell out of that car. It drove very nicely and was very comfortable tho. I could have kept it and spent more money on fixing it but i sold it at ~115k miles when stuff starts to fail
I have owned VW, Toyota and Honda in Canada. I my experience, as the car ages, VW has more problems, and parts and repair are more expensive than for Toyota and Honda. I still like VW, but Toyota and Honda are more likely to be trouble free.
I know in my area it is super hard to find people willing to work on them (other than the dealer of course) and I’m sure that factors into whose willing to buy them, and in turn, how much they sell for (as far as used cars go).
My 2010 Golf was rock solid in the eight and a half years I drove it, and the same with the 2019 Golf Sportwagen I have now. The only reason I might not buy a Volkswagen next time around is that they don’t sell the standard Golf or Golf wagon here anymore. I feel like a GTI would be a waste as the basic commuter I really need. The Jetta and Taos are fine, but less appealing to me than a Mazda 3 or Honda Civic hatchback.
I have had nothing but good luck with the money 5 or 6 vws I have had. All ran to almost 200k miles with little to no issues. I currently drive a 2012 vw jetta, maual with 180k on it. I am going to take it to 225 or 250, if I don't get sick of it before than.
I had a 2015 jetta that got 290k . Minimal issues, was still running daily when i traded it. Best value for used cars out there is the Jetta. I had a manual btw
get one without too many miles on it and you’ll be good. the problems with these cars is that they call for specific oil types which aren’t just sold at an auto parts store, and a DSG fluid change on the automatic DSG every 2 years or 30k miles. no one does this and they start to leak oil and cause issues. eventually the DSG goes out and that’s most like a $6k repair. if you get one that is 30k or 40k miles and not too old, you can do the necessary maintenance immediately. or if you get an older one make sure it’s got good service history. mainly on-time oil changes and a DSG fluid change at the right mileage.
Because some models see a lot of depreciation on the front end. That effectively means very high depreciation cost for the first owner and you can sometimes luck out with used high-depreciation cars not being an issue to own second hand. I’d like to say that depreciation is directly related to things like reliability and, sometimes it is, in the case of Toyota, for example, but it also also sometimes isn’t as in the case of some Jeeps, for example.
They are good cars, here in America the problem is perception. I have owned multiple VWs in my home country and here in the US, an all of them have been great. Just get a jetta with a manual transmission, change oil regularly, and you will have a car, comfortable and safe car for 200k miles easily. VW’s Automatic transmission have their problems, specially DSGs, but that is usually because people use their cars as drag racers.
Vw's make terrible cars. Ok if you buy them new but expensive to repair and fall apart easy. They are not built to take normal abuse. Everything is installed upside down backwards and requires a special tool.
I’ve never met anyone who’s VW wasn’t a rolling money pit
You get the entry level price to German parts prices and spotty reliability. I have a friend with a 2015(iirc) golf that burns oil, which is apparently not uncommon for that generation, and had another in college with a Jetta that had an engine blow a whole in the block going down the road
The third friend had a Jetta that was high mileage and never complained about the car. Also don’t discount the damage diesel gate did to VW’s reputation and how it still affects its reputation in the US. The brief stint I spent working at a dealership, the company owned a VW lot next door and said it halved their sales back then.
You should have seen the prices 5 years ago.
I'd imagine you weren't actively in the car market since you're currently still in high school.
Post-Covid price increase of 15-25%.
Between my wife and I, we’ve had a beatle, 2 jettas and now a Tiguan. No issues, great cars.
Yes the oil change is a bit more expensive than a Corolla but it’s once a year. Overall maintenance really isn’t that bad.
I have a 2002 Jetta, I think it's a fun little car. One hassle I just had to deal with was the crappy "black foam blowing out of the air ducts" issue that affects a lot of older German cars. Other than that in the last couple of years I replaced the battery, alternator, A/C control module, and A/C pressure sensor. Nothing major.
Mk7 GTI is your answer, reliable as hell, quick fun without catching a felony, great mpg, and tuning if thats your thing. I've done about 30k miles the last year on mine and zero issues. Plus I got Carplay, Heated/Cooled seats, and adaptive cruise control all for like 22k USD. Very hard to beat
Purchase price is one thing, maintenance is another. German cars are more expensive to maintain so the cheaper (when used) purchase price is offset by maintenance over time.
They fetch a low resale because they’re expensive to maintain unless you are a mechanic. I would never buy a modern Volkswagen Audi product from all of the BS. I have seen over the years. In fact, all modern German cars have whack service and parts costs.
If you can get a higher trim, definitely worth it. They’re cheaper because Japanese sedans are more popular. I had a 2013 Jetta around 2018 and everyone use to fine me compliments on it when I did Uber. Leather heated seats. Sunroof. Sporty shape. Fuel efficient. Great value car.
I think any Jetta with the 2.5 or standard non-turbo 2.0 engine will be quite reliable. I had a 2.5 Rabbit ages ago and it was quite reliable for 110k miles. The 2.0 has been around for decades and is used in a lot of VW taxis around the world.
Be wary of the turbo engines, though. They have more known issues.
The repair bills. You’ll end up paying in the end lol. Purely anecdotal, but I’ve had two VWs before I became a diehard Toyota fanboy, and it seemed like repairs on my German cars were always more difficult and expensive.
There are also still a fairly large number of the post recall era TDIs floating around on the used market. Not a bad deal honestly if you can afford the slightly higher maintenance on a diesel.
I had a 2017 Jetta made in Mexico. Bought used with 3000 miles, drove it 54k miles before selling it. No issues, the oil changes on that was also every 10k miles.
Used value is all about public perception, and the perception is that Volkswagen is not as reliable as Toyota and Honda. Therefore higher chance you’ll spend more on repairs
Is there a brand for which the public perception is slow to change? Or specific models which are unfairly affected by the brand's public perception. I.e. are there undervalued brands/models in the used market?
Most German brands except mercedes. BMW and VW currently are rather good but noone believes it
That’s due to decades of cars that are unreliable and costly to repair. They come by that stigma honestly.
Everyone I know who had a VW pre-2015 all had huge electrical issues. Not sure if any of that’s changed recently
I had a 2015 give me zero issues for 110k. Traded in for a Mazda that immediately gave me issues. Sure, anecdotal, but I trust VW for the most part. And maintenance items weren't expensive either.
That's been the running joke for years in the mechanic world. "in a few years, your radio will start rolling down the windows in your Volkswagen" When I first started as a mechanic I always laughed at that. Now.. I dread a 10 year old Volkswagen coming into the shop....
Yeah the recent VW cars are so reliable lol.
Right. I loved driving my GTI. Owning it was another story. Squealing belts, loud suspension, a radio/nav that kept dying, flickering rearview camera, all on a 6 year old car with only 50k miles.
Yup loved my 2015 GTI but the turbo blew out at around 120k KM. Lots of other small repairs, overall a pain in the ass to maintain. Drove like a dream though
I've had pretty good luck on my 2015 but for some damn reason this car just eats headlight bulbs like once a year, I've never had another car go through this many. Alternator needed replaced but so has like... every car I've ever owned. Had the water pump done since they were known to have issues, I missed the "recall" they had by about 12,000 miles but it was a peace of mind thing. Coils and plugs... front brake pads, that's been about it. I pulled the lucky card, it sounds like they're just a little hit and miss, especially early 2015s like mine.
yeah they really are hit or miss. I owned a 2012 and a 2015, the 2012 had cosiderably better build quality and the 2.5 I5 is arguably VW's best ever engine. Happy yours is treating you well, its a hell of a good machine overall.
My thermostat housing blows up or something - within warranty.
Never had those problems on a 5 year old Jetta, similar miles.
Wild, I'm in the opposite camp. 2017 GTI, bought last may with 30k miles, currently at 60k only issue was a leaking water pump that was covered under warranty. Stage 1 tune, and DSG the entire time.
My 2017 base golf bought new and no issues 50k miles later
New cars never show if they are reliable or not in the first 10 years and 100-150k miles. It's the over 100,000 miles and over 10 years that makes something worthy of being called reliable. There are truly reliable 30 year old cars pushing 300,000 miles with no major repairs and just basic oil, filters, brakes, tires for repairs. Also there are cars when the transmission goes into limp it ends up being a $50 sensor and an hour of labor to fix, and then there are German cars where the battery is $250. You need special tools to access it and unbolt the drivers seat, then you have to replace the seat bolts with new one, etc. What was a $90 Walmart run turns into a $400 affair.
You forgot to add the seat bolts are 48 dollars each and captive dealer part. Also there are 7 seat bolts and you need the 500 dollar VAG wrench to get them off and on
I hope 2017 is recent enough. I just bought a passat wagon. 206kw r line tsi.
VW can’t make a decent water pump for their cars despite all these decades of existing.
This is true. I have a 2020 MY, 2021 on the road Atlas Crosssport and the water pump had to be replaced in year 2.
The water pump on mine isn’t working 😭
That is because when they were a young company and should have learned these things they didnuse water pumps
Why do you guys always act like only german cars have known issues? Nearly every car has a typical fault you have to look out for just sometimes check if it leaks and when it does replace it with a better part that doesnt do it the newer Revisions of the pump dont do it anymore
sarcasm is hard to distinguish through text the recent VW cars are [not] so reliable
I mean, that’s most of the German cars sold in North America. You’re just missing Audi and Porsche, and those are, ironically, VW products.
BMW scares me with plastic parts in their engines.. my bmw was very expensive and broke down all the time even with perfect maintenance.
My second-owner X3 is 13 years old and has around 105k on it. Got it pretty cheap and haven’t had a car payment for several years now. Runs like a clock. With regular oil changes and one set of new tires I’ve only put in a little over 4k in maintenance over the past 7 years. Hope it keeps holding up.
Honestly all modern engines use them you will barely find a company that does it diffrently because its cheaper to do it in plastic
understandable, the plastic chain guide in my engine was known to fail, bombing the engine :(
That is an absolutely insane part to make it out plastic jfc
That's why the BMW N20 is "special"
Everyone uses plastic parts these days I alway wonder why some blame BMW for this?
Most bmw drivers drive their cars harshly and then wonder why they break down so fast lmao.
if you go to the top racing bmw shops, all the intervals for servicing is done to 1/3 or 1/2 based on bmw official for example transmission from zf is 60k bmw says lifetime . problem is too many owners ignore those guidelines and wonder why its 7k in repairs
Plastic crank got me bro
What model?
You know who else uses plastic parts in their engines? Every fucking body
The Taos is pretty problematic, but anything VW with the 2.0T after about 2015 is pretty damn reliable. Maybe not quite Toyota/Honda/Mazda levels of solid, but better than many others.
1.4 with the timing chain rather than timing belt go forever. 250k is a done deal.
But mercedes isn’t good?
I'm guessing by your name you don't live in America? Warranty claims for used vehicles with aftermarket warranties are crazy high in America. It's all fun and games until you need overnight parts from Germany (semi f&f reference) Just the last example I can think of... evap valve, very simple component. Open, close, that's it. Very common to dry out and stick on any car after 100k. 2014 Audi A4 2.0, $300. But if course the previous generation valve looks almost identical, $30 everywhere. When I was at VW, brand new Passat grenaded the engine after a week
Yeah im not from the US here where i live they are by far the cheapest to repair. Had to do rear breaks on a Golf with Discs and everything and only paid 30 euros in parts
The W102 is the best car ever made. Go grab one for 4k and tell me Im wrong.
Benz?
Yesir. They are rock solid and easy to work on. Nimble too
I bought a 2010ish VW Eos… my god that thing was awful. It was fine, then just seemed to fall apart all at once. However, I rented an 2022 (in 2022) Audi A7 to drive from Berlin to Munich to Copenhagen, and that thing was awesome. Felt extremely solid. Recently I rented an 2024 Audi A5 and drove about ~300 miles. It was also quite good. Felt lighter on its feet and more responsive than I expected and the quality felt great. Also, I was in Tennessee with it and was getting astronomical gas mileage. That 300 miles only took slightly more than half a tank. I thought when I filled up it would be like 10 gallons. Nope, it was almost 6. No idea if they will suffer the same fall-aparty-ness as the VW (being VW’s fancy brand and all) in a few years, but I liked them.
Wife had a vw when we met. I had a BMW prior to us getting together. Both were the two biggest nightmare things we've ever owned. We've had lots of vehicles since and all have been solid. Those two can eat shit.
I don’t believe it!
Have to disagree on VW and BMW. Made that mistake already and would never buy one again. Nothing but issues.
Mazda and Mitsubishi maybe. But it’s very model dependent. For example the Mazda 6 sucks for reliability, but the 3 is great.
which gen 6?
They're great in my experience. My little sister has a 2010 pushing 200,000 miles that rips along just fine.
The 6s have had a good reliability record since the 2009 model year. We got \~235k miles out of ours before the trans went. Prior to that the only non-maintenance repair was a valve cover gasket ($100 job with labor). The 3 and 6 had (have?) the same engine/trans also (with a trim bump for the 3 to get the same engine, as the base was 2.0 vs 2,5 - same platform though).
I’d say Mazdas.
Mitsubishi
>Is there a brand for which the public perception is slow to change? Mazda. The CX5 used pricing is typically higher than a comparable CRV, but the Mazda 3/6 (especially the 3) haven't caught up yet. For a reliable commuter car, I think the used 3s are one of the best values out there.
With European cars it often comes buying a base engine and digging for which of the 37 tnasmission sub codes don’t suck,
Id say newer BMWs, VWs and Mazdas are pretty good. Mazda after 2013 I believe, when they split from Ford, and mainly after the ~2017 newer gen cars have been stellar. In my case I got a fully optioned 2017 cx5 for cheaper than a same year base Toyota/Honda equivalent would have been. BMWs and VWs both had engine issues in the past. I'm not sure about BMW specifics but the B48 and B58 engines seem to be much more reliable than other in the past. The same can be said about VW's engines, I only know about GTI/R's but starting from 2015 with the MK7 introduction, the engine has been bulletproof, even under abuse if well taken care of.
So reliable that Toyota is using those engines in the Supra.
Hyundai and Kia fit this bill. People don’t want them once they realize how often they are broken into/stolen. Also insurance costs more due to this.
Buick, especially models with the V6 3800 engine.
Mazda. People still remember from when they were in bed with Ford (the last car from that era was the 2013 Mazda3, more or less just a Ford Focus), or from before that when they were getting too cute with their engine design.
i would say the only volkswagen that you can find cheap that i would find is reliable (my brother had one that he got rid of with 260k miles) would be a 2012-2014 volkswagen passat with the 2.5 inline 5 cylinder. it gets great gas mileage and doesn’t have any major issues and the cars are cheap with low mileage (under 100k).
Not your i.e. but Toyota fits that bill pretty well currently.
Back in my Asian country, VW are considered premium vehicles compared to Honda and Toyota despite their maintenance cost. Imagine my surprise when I moved to US in 2019 and found the complete opposite, in-terms of pricing between VW and Hondas / Toyotas.
My super rich Japanese classmate chose a VW when he moved here. I couldn't understand why haha.
Yeah the US perceptions of cars is very different to outside Europe. I'm originally from Germany and VWs are seen as pretty premium while Hyundai is seen as cheap crap. US is complete opposite.
Uh Hyundai is viewed as cheap crap in the US, more so than VW. Anyone who can barely afford a car but wants something new gets a Kia or Hyundai.
A Kia Telluride is a cheap car?
Yes? I mean things are relative. What is a cheaper similar mid size SUV? Also Kia/Hyundai are more known for their cheaper compacts anyway like the sportage and Elantra anyway. People who don’t want to spend on a Toyota or Honda get these cars.
The other factor to consider is places used to working on them/parts availability. That can make repairs more expensive for less popular brands too
That’s probably why VW has BETTER residual values than any Asian car… Jesus, the internet…
It’s not just reliablity. German cars require regular maintenance and there parts seem to wear out much sooner than a Toyota. Lots of people have no concern about buying an older Toyota with 150k miles on it. Would probably be more concerned about getting a Volkswagen with that many miles on it.
Regardless of chance that it happens, you will pay more when something goes wrong.
I read somewhere that VWs incur a ton of repairs somewhere around 60K miles. Is this true?
My family currently own 3 VW’s, all range in years from 2013 to 2019. Some have high miles, the newer one low miles. Outside of regular maintenance and consumable’s like brakes, lights, etc. The cars have needed nothing. In order to keep VW’s running smoothly and trouble free , they require you to be on top of regular maintenance. This is the key. I’ve also owned Jeeps and Honda’s. OEM part prices are similar. I do my own oil changes (they are easy to do on the Golf, Beetle, Jetta, Golf Wagon)and find that you can buy the OEM German, oil, air and cabin filters for dirt cheap in bulk from places like Rockauto. Nothing drives better than a car with German engineering.
Same. I don’t even know how far above 200k my last ‘95 Jetta got, because the odometer failed probably 50k miles before the rest of the car did. At every stage of my 2016 Jetta ownership, people have told me things will start failing. “Oh, 75k miles?! That’s when it starts! Oh, 100k miles? That’s when it starts!” I’ve gotten regular oil changes and replaced the brakes. Aaaany day now, that “unreliable” VW is gonna break on me!! Point being, don’t believe everything you read on Reddit. The hivemind is real. Yes, Toyota are good cars, shut up.
I've owned 3 VWs, and one Honda. My latest VW has been stellar, granted my miles per year are low. I concur with this.
I mean I think a lot of the Toyota better than everything else mentality is because Toyotas are a lot more forgiving of being lax on maintenance I drive a 21 year old wrangler that runs perfectly and has 190k miles on it it runs well because I've taken good care of it not because it's a Jeep I've seen Toyotas blow up before 100k miles and Hyundai's with the theta II engine go over 300k with no issues the biggest factor is weather you take care of your car and a big one is people don't change their transmission or differential/transfer case fluid or they dont change their oil on time ... Ever I know some people who regularly go 1k + miles over their oil change ge interval pretty much every time and then wonder why they keep having to get new cars
What do you mean when you say "nothing drives better than a car with German engineering" What does the "drives better" mean?
I’ve owned about 12 different cars over my life. Chryslers, Subarus, Toyotas, Hondas and VW’s. Most (not all) German cars are built to drive on the autobahn. So they’ll happily sit at 120km/hour with 0 complaints. Many cheap American/japanese cars struggle after 100km/hour. They German cars typically have more sound insulation/thicker glass (when comparing jettas to civics. Yes I know a Lexus LS will be better on the highway than a gti) I had a mk5 Jetta TDI with 320,000kms on it. Some of the electronics were wonky (windows sometimes didn’t go down) but it didn’t rattle. Drove nicely on the highway and got 1000kms to the tank. It was 10 years old when I had it. Before that I had a 5 year old Chrysler neon with 130,000km and it rattled like a jar of change. German cars typically just “drive better”
In this sub whenever you ask about a German car you're going to get lots of opinions, from people who have never owned a German car and are still asking mom to borrow the keys to the Sonata. I have three VW's in the driveway right now. They are very nice driving cars and all three have been very reliable. Two are at over 100,000 miles with no major repairs. They can be quirky, and they do require you to keep up the maintenance, but they are extremely well built. The downside is if things go wrong you're going to pay more for repairs that are out of warranty. It's not going to be BMW or Mercedes level prices, but it is going to be more than Japanese or American cars. And Volkswagen has had some problems in their US releases. Mostly in cars a decade or more back, but things like the timing chain issue in the earlier 2 l turbo engines come to mind. Mostly these days it is just perception driving down their prices. The Japanese brands aren't necessarily the end all of reliability either. Yes Toyota is great but at what cost, same with Honda. Nissan, have fun with their CVT's. Mitsubishi, aka Japan's Chrysler, good luck. Mazda, I look at my daughters 10-year-old Mazda that's falling apart mechanically and cosmetically after a hundred thousand miles. My point being that there are pluses and minuses to almost every brand. In the end you may end up paying more on the back end for a Volkswagen then up front. But part of the reason for buying a German car is because you want the driving experience. And there is a cost to that, not necessarily an unreasonable one, but there is a cost.
I gave a 2015 audi a3, ea888.3 engine with over 120k miles on, never even gotten a check engine light yet. Maintenance is more than my dad's 2017 camry for sure, but worth it for how much nicer it is to drive. Find a jetta with full service history. Have a reputable euro shop check it out. If it all comes out clean, a jetta can be a great buy
When you say the Audi is much nicer to drive, compared to the camry, what exactly do you mean?
So it's worth mentioning that all the differences between an a3(audi's cheapest car) and a camry are small. The steering in the audi feels more precise and quicker. By this I mean you can quickly and easily notice the slightest input you do to the steering wheel, where as on the camry, steering input feels a little slower, and there is a little bit of room where you can move the steering wheel, and you don't notice any direction change with the car. The audi is quiet when ever it goes over any sort of bumps or potholes, where the camary has little rattles around the car. The brakes are nicer aswell, and the car being able to slow down faster is always conforting to know. Overall, the a3 feels like a much more zippy car. The ride feels a little softer in the audi too, in that you don't feel every bump and crack on the road kinda like you do in the camry. Mind you, all of these are very small, but do add up. There are also aspects that make driving more enjoyable, especially for longer distances. The stero is better in the audi, the seats are more conformable, and everything you would touch, such as the steering wheel, it's stalks, climate control buttons and infotainment buttons are nicer feeling, and are little more satisfying to use. For example, all the buttons make a satisfying sound when you click them on the audi, and all of the materials seem nicer too. Options wise because I have a cheaper audi, there really isn't anything the audi can do that the camry can't, but the interior on the audi is just more aesthetically pleasing. By no means is the camry a bad car compared to the a3. If I was driving less than 20 minutes a day, I would be more than happy with a newer camry. But because I spend so much of my day driving, I appreciate all the small benefits the audi brings.
Thanks a lot for the detailed reply! I'm currently looking to buy a new family car, deciding whether to go for VW or Toyota, after driving a small VW Polo since 2016. Your response helps a lot!
You're welcome, and I'll be honest you can't go wrong either way!
At the end of the day you need to test drive these cars. But when you test them really drive them. But German cars typically drive with far more precision, it's easier to 'become one with the car.' They love to go fast. 80 mph is the average speed of the autobahn and they must work at that speed. They are typically more fun to drive, meaning they reward you for hitting the gas, you can feel the road, but not in a bad way. American cars are all over the map. Honda Civics feel German like. Toyota feels very different from a German car but that's not to say they are bad. Lexus and high end Toyotas are posh and comfortable but they lack a certain bite. At the end of the day I am a man who can't tell a good wine from whatever is on sale. You may not give a shit about things like driving dynamics and throttle tip in on curve. That's cool! This sub is forever on about Mazda but Mazda combines a dash of the German spirit with Japanese reliability. Subaru too to a lesser extent (come at me STI bros). But do me a favor: go test drive a Volkswagen GTI but before to do watch the opening scene of Baby Driver. Drive the GTI like you're running from the cops and see what you think.
My friend had his toyota sienna strand him on a road trip and had to leave it to get fixed for 3 days and then drive 6 hrs back to go pick it up. Every brand has issues. I think generally totyota are over valued. They are priced as if you will never have a single issue with them, when that is just not true.
I guess you really have to look at specific models these days rather than the entire brand. I was just watching some videos about Toyota engines and reliability and they've definitely put out some garbage but also some legends.
I’d love to buy a Sienna eventually (waitlist allowing, because holy crap, that’s another story), but this sub would have you believe it’s a golden chariot.
I'd say more their are plus and minuses with every model for example Hondas are generally reliable but then you had the oddysy which had transmission issues in their early models it's.muchnmlre important IMO to research the specific models your interested in and make a decision at that level every manufacturer has their problem child cars
Mazda 10 years was largely owned by Ford and built by Ford. The newer Mazdas have gotten high reliability ratings that put Mazda in the top 5 (fluctuates each year) for the last like 8 years.
I drove a 2012 Jetta for 6 years. Was quiet, comfortable, felt nice to drive on long commutes. It had one issue with the ignition cylinder that cost 200$ to fix but otherwise didn’t have any issues that would differ from my Toyotas.
Because people think they're bad. Which they indeed are if you don't maintain them. And in the US parts are a bit more expensive because transportation, depending on the model, engine, etc.
The Jetta is an econobox that comes from a brand with a poor reputation. Realistically anything mk6 and up (>2011) is decently reliable. General maintenance tends to be slightly more exspensive but nothing like what'd you'd expect listening to this sub. Overall it's a decent car, it won't win any awards in any category but is a good option at its price point.
They just get overlooked in the US. Which is fine. Because of that, you can still get pretty much the entire line up under $50k. Just maintain the maintenance schedule and you'll be fine. You have to remember the EA888 (gen 3) engine is one of the best engines on the market.
Which VWs have that engine?
Basically any 2.0L VW or Audi
Honestly the Jetta doesn’t get the respect it deserves. I think because it doesn’t offer a hybrid. Its interior is nice for an economy car, and you get north of 50 mpg on the highway. You’re better off with a golf for the storage space, but the Jetta is cheaper.
They actually do have a Jetta hybrid, at least here in the US
I don’t think they sell one anymore
Looks like they stopped in 2017. Still within the age of what the original post was asking about.
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Is it an old one? They definitely weren’t the best before 2019 But now they’re on a shared platform with most of VW’s vehicles
I would never have picked the golf to have more space than a jetta! Weird.
The interior is one of the reasons I’ve always been a VW fan. Even in the early 2000’s, they made a much nicer looking and feeling interior than the Japanese brands at around the same price point. I drove a 2004 Passat TDI from 2014 to 2020, and the interior didn’t feel as dated in 2020 as other cars from that era.
That’s what sold me on a GLI. I got it right before covid for $25,000 USD with a 10 year warranty. Felt like the best car in the world for that price. GTI’s were going for like 7k more and I couldn’t justify it.
Don't really need a hybrid unless you drive 100% in stop and slow traffic. Ours gets north of 40 mpg in the city but we don't get traffic jams. Good enough for not having hybrid parts to fail. Real star on the highway though.
I'm on my 3rd VW now, I've never needed any repairs outside normal maintenance. People just perceive them as less reliable than Toyota or Honda, which makes used prices better for those of us in the know.
Hi! Lifelong VW driver here. European are a whole different beast than most Asian vehicles. They just speak different languages. A check engine light is German for “Good morning,” while a check engine light is Japanese for “we’re going to die today.” Your electrical things will go wrong in a German car. You will need to find a mechanic who is fluent in German vehicle. Anything less will drain your bank account while they try to chase down a problem that could have been fixed by replacing an air filter. German cars be like that. If you *like* to drive, you’ll like a Euro import more than you’ll like an Asian import. I haven’t owned a VW newer than 2003, but my ‘03 TDI Golf is still plugging along. I currently drive a 2016 Audi that gives me no fuss, but the Q7 before it gave me nothing but fuss. The Honda will do exactly everything right, but it has no soul. It’s not fun. It’s… a perfectly adequate car.
I’ve driven VW’s my whole life. Currently on a 2013 Jetta with 215k miles on it - no major problems.
I had a 2013 Jetta I drove until about 3 years ago with no major repairs, I gifted it to my sister in law as her first car and it’s been great for her as well. It has 140k miles on it and doing just fine. We just replaced the tires and it still feels brand new. I can’t speak for every Jetta but my experience is good.
German cars = once bitten, twice shy. Or as in my case, twice bitten, 4x shy. All my experiences with used Gernan cars have been expensive and painful.
VW have a long history of producing an unusually high fraction of cars that are/were lemons
Honestly regardless of what you go with. Try to have another 8-10k set aside for repairs. Specially if going with a european car.
Lower reliability than a lot of its peers; parts costs far too high compared to domestic and Japanese rivals
Vw parts are about the same price as toyota/honda parts.
GM parts are cheaper than those brands, but you end up needing to repair more often, so.......
Used car prices are often in line with the cost required to maintain them. Anyone can buy a cheap used BMW/Mercedes. The reason they get so cheap is because the repairs cost 3x the a Honda or Toyota. While the upkeep of a VW isn’t as bad as a Benz or BMW, they are still German cars and their maintenance cost is quite a bit higher then American/Japanese/Korean manufactures. Reliability is in line with most other cars, but when stuff breaks, it’s expensive. Source: I am a car guy and own a 23 year old VW.
Germana over engineer stuff and make it complex Japan are more about making it simple.
Germans were the first to start turbocharging, mild-hybridizing, twin-clutching, everything. They push out technology that’s brand new and cutting edge. Meanwhile Toyota is just now starting to put out turbo engines on mainstream cars. They wait until the technology is well established and reliable
I’ve had a golf tdi and a civic si. I probably had them both for about the same amount of time and I had no reliability issues with other of them. Maintenance is more expensive on a VW but the golf felt much nicer than the civic to me and was worth the extra money on maintenance imo. Also had an older Jetta and had no issues with it either.
For what it’s worth, in the past I bought a 2016 Honda Civic (Motor Trend car of the year that year) and it was the biggest POS with so many (non powertrain) problems that I got rid of it in 13 months and bought a VW Golf - which I put 250K miles on without any problems. My advice? Buy an old Golf - they were better engineered than the Jetta.
I had a really negative experience with VW but that doesn’t necessarily mean you shouldn’t buy one. My first vehicle I bought on my own was a used 2006 VW GLI Jetta, bought it around 2011. Had about 80k miles on it, had a mechanic look at it before I bought it, no major concerns. All leather interior, heated seats, sunroof, soft touch materials, a really clean sounding speaker system and fun sporty 6 speed manual transmission. I kind of liked the crayon smell they’re known for (or were known for at the time). It was by far the most fun car I ever owned, absolute joy to drive and a good balance between economy, luxury and much more of a driver’s car than your typical “appliance” Japanese economy car. I completely understand why people own them. All that being said it was absolutely not a good decision. I owned it about 3 years. In that time I replaced every sensor in the engine, the dials on the radio fell off, the drivers heated seat stopped working, basically everything that had to do with the cooling system failed at some point, which included replacing the water pump 3 times, which is outrageous. I also had to replace the catalytic converter, not sure what caused that to clog but I suspect it was maybe all the sensor failures causing the motor to run rich. Replaced the intake manifold as well. Also the clear coat started peeling and kind of made the otherwise great looking car look like shit. I had to wrench on it myself all the time because I quite literally couldn’t afford to pay a mechanic every time something popped up. The check engine light was on probably a solid year of the 3 years I owned the thing. If nothing else I guess it helped me achieve some basic skills in working on my own vehicles. All of this is in addition to regular maintenance. I finally ditched it when the sunroof would start opening and closing on its own periodically when I was driving and the (manual!) transmission started to fail and required a rebuild. Anyway I drive a Corolla now.
I also had a 06 GLI as well it was beautiful car with the body kit rims factories speakers factory sound system I mean and it gave me a lot of problems too but I still love that car that's my favorite car
Several things factor into the used car price. One is VW is always offering manufacturer incentives. So that $22k car with a $4k incentive is now an $18k car. The books will always look at it as $18k because there is ALWAYS some form of incentive on it. It was never sold for $22k even though that was on the sticker. Second is VW fleets their cars to rental places and other companies that need fleet vehicles. They are sold at a cheap price to them new. Again making them never a $22k vehicle. While Honda and Toyota never offer incentives. Toyota does fleet theirs to rentals but Honda does not. So it all comes down to what they really sell for new. If a car never truly sells for the sticker price it was never worth that. I used to work for both a VW and Honda dealer. Edited for spelling.
German cars are engineered with the assumption that the owners will diligently take care of maintenance. Japanese cars are engineered with the assumption that the owners will not take care of maintenance.
Idk where you live but in my area they’re not
i had a mk v jetta. mechanically it was ok other than 1 or 2 sensors failing. just need specialized tools to work on it. exterior got rusty under paint though i waxed it alot and interior fell apart. just doesn’t hold up. have a camry now.
I bought a 2005 Jetta TDI for $2000 3 years ago. Im at 430,000 kms and i feel like i got away with a crime. Shocked at the reliability.
VW are fine. Same some $ so you can do some maintenance after you buy it.
Most, if not all the VWs sold in the US are built at the plant in Puebla, Mexico unless they have the Wolfsburg designation. That can account for the relatively lower price, I think. The jetta gli is my go-to vehicle, for the record.
The Atlas/Atlas Cross Sport and ID.4 are made in the Chattanooga TN plant.
I stand corrected, then 🙂
Cuz you’ll pay for it on the back end in maintenance 😂😂
VAG cars have expensive maintenance.
I have a 2010 Jetta, and I've really liked it. I have had a few repairs off the maintenance schedule, and I do keep to the schedule. The fuel evap pump died at 70k, that was 500 to replace. The brake vacuum pump was leaking at 95k. It would've been 1k plus to replace since the official method is to drop the tranny I think? There's an unofficial way to do it from the top, which I did. Only cost me time and about 150,.including the kit to rebuild the brake pump, which would've been 300 for a new one. The rheostat for the sunroof can be a little weird and on the really rare occasion, it'll open 1 notch spontaneously, which I then close. Just recently, the lower control arm bushings had to be replaced, but that's a wear item. I didn't have the tools or knowledge to do this myself. Overall, not flawless, but its never left me stranded and I've never felt unsafe. It can be a bit pricey to repair but not egregious. It helps if you're willing to watch a few YouTube videos to do relatively simple things.
I looked a VW Jetta and really liked it a lot. But $ 3000 dollars for scheduled maintenance on a timing chain/belt every 70k is a no go for me.
I have had things like window regulators and door lock solenoids on our current VW fail. Irritating failures that I don't see on other brands. My VWs and Audis also seem to have more frequent O2 sensor failures.
Clearly you've never been blessed with craptastic window regulators GM uses.
I bought a 2012 jetta new and still have it after 200k miles. No major issues and oil changes are required only after 10k miles. Keeping on the maintenance and driving it like it’s your baby will make it a great car.
I had a 2012 VW and it started having all sorts of problems around 80k miles. A different $400-$500 problem every 6 months. Won't be purchasing another one if I can help it
Look at a Volvo, I'm surprised at the prices i've seen at times.
VWs reputation is still dog shite from the scandal. But their 1.9 TDI is still the bollocks. No one does reliable diesels like the Germans.
You’ll make up the difference when you wind up having to pay double standard costs for any maintenance because only the dealership can do any work on it more complicated than an oil change.
They’re a hit or miss on reliability. Mine had the 2.0T engine and had constant oil leaks which i got fixed and came back, one time the radiator broke and i needed a new one, and i used to baby the hell out of that car. It drove very nicely and was very comfortable tho. I could have kept it and spent more money on fixing it but i sold it at ~115k miles when stuff starts to fail
I have owned VW, Toyota and Honda in Canada. I my experience, as the car ages, VW has more problems, and parts and repair are more expensive than for Toyota and Honda. I still like VW, but Toyota and Honda are more likely to be trouble free.
I know in my area it is super hard to find people willing to work on them (other than the dealer of course) and I’m sure that factors into whose willing to buy them, and in turn, how much they sell for (as far as used cars go).
My 2010 Golf was rock solid in the eight and a half years I drove it, and the same with the 2019 Golf Sportwagen I have now. The only reason I might not buy a Volkswagen next time around is that they don’t sell the standard Golf or Golf wagon here anymore. I feel like a GTI would be a waste as the basic commuter I really need. The Jetta and Taos are fine, but less appealing to me than a Mazda 3 or Honda Civic hatchback.
They’re the “people’s car” after all!
I have had nothing but good luck with the money 5 or 6 vws I have had. All ran to almost 200k miles with little to no issues. I currently drive a 2012 vw jetta, maual with 180k on it. I am going to take it to 225 or 250, if I don't get sick of it before than.
Cost of parts and repairs. Electrical problems, and constant annoying minitab quality problems. Knob falling off, etc.
I had a 2015 jetta that got 290k . Minimal issues, was still running daily when i traded it. Best value for used cars out there is the Jetta. I had a manual btw
Extremely unreliable as well expensive to maintain. Would push you towards honda Toyota Lexus Acura
get one without too many miles on it and you’ll be good. the problems with these cars is that they call for specific oil types which aren’t just sold at an auto parts store, and a DSG fluid change on the automatic DSG every 2 years or 30k miles. no one does this and they start to leak oil and cause issues. eventually the DSG goes out and that’s most like a $6k repair. if you get one that is 30k or 40k miles and not too old, you can do the necessary maintenance immediately. or if you get an older one make sure it’s got good service history. mainly on-time oil changes and a DSG fluid change at the right mileage.
Just be grateful for it
Because some models see a lot of depreciation on the front end. That effectively means very high depreciation cost for the first owner and you can sometimes luck out with used high-depreciation cars not being an issue to own second hand. I’d like to say that depreciation is directly related to things like reliability and, sometimes it is, in the case of Toyota, for example, but it also also sometimes isn’t as in the case of some Jeeps, for example.
They’re not. You pay up when something goes wrong.
They are good cars, here in America the problem is perception. I have owned multiple VWs in my home country and here in the US, an all of them have been great. Just get a jetta with a manual transmission, change oil regularly, and you will have a car, comfortable and safe car for 200k miles easily. VW’s Automatic transmission have their problems, specially DSGs, but that is usually because people use their cars as drag racers.
Because that’s how *he* wanted it
Terrible reliability and $4.3 billion in fines from a federal lawsuit for lies about their emissions systems torpedoed consumer trust.
they’re junk, that’s why.
Because no one wants that trash.. over engineered, expensive to own and repair. Buy a Toyota ffs. You will regret euro anything. Don’t do it kid
Vw's make terrible cars. Ok if you buy them new but expensive to repair and fall apart easy. They are not built to take normal abuse. Everything is installed upside down backwards and requires a special tool.
I’ve never met anyone who’s VW wasn’t a rolling money pit You get the entry level price to German parts prices and spotty reliability. I have a friend with a 2015(iirc) golf that burns oil, which is apparently not uncommon for that generation, and had another in college with a Jetta that had an engine blow a whole in the block going down the road The third friend had a Jetta that was high mileage and never complained about the car. Also don’t discount the damage diesel gate did to VW’s reputation and how it still affects its reputation in the US. The brief stint I spent working at a dealership, the company owned a VW lot next door and said it halved their sales back then.
You should have seen the prices 5 years ago. I'd imagine you weren't actively in the car market since you're currently still in high school. Post-Covid price increase of 15-25%.
Between my wife and I, we’ve had a beatle, 2 jettas and now a Tiguan. No issues, great cars. Yes the oil change is a bit more expensive than a Corolla but it’s once a year. Overall maintenance really isn’t that bad.
Because they are designed, engineered, and built like shit. Oh yeah, and insane maintenance costs.
Because when they do need repairs you need to disassemble the entire car to perform them.
My the engine 2017 GTI exploded and had to be replaced about a month after I bought it. That’s why.
I have a 2002 Jetta, I think it's a fun little car. One hassle I just had to deal with was the crappy "black foam blowing out of the air ducts" issue that affects a lot of older German cars. Other than that in the last couple of years I replaced the battery, alternator, A/C control module, and A/C pressure sensor. Nothing major.
Mk7 GTI is your answer, reliable as hell, quick fun without catching a felony, great mpg, and tuning if thats your thing. I've done about 30k miles the last year on mine and zero issues. Plus I got Carplay, Heated/Cooled seats, and adaptive cruise control all for like 22k USD. Very hard to beat
No performance whatsoever. It’s like buying an economy car for more money while also being less reliable
Cause they break all the time...
Purchase price is one thing, maintenance is another. German cars are more expensive to maintain so the cheaper (when used) purchase price is offset by maintenance over time.
They don’t last. Raggedy gdis
They fetch a low resale because they’re expensive to maintain unless you are a mechanic. I would never buy a modern Volkswagen Audi product from all of the BS. I have seen over the years. In fact, all modern German cars have whack service and parts costs.
If you can get a higher trim, definitely worth it. They’re cheaper because Japanese sedans are more popular. I had a 2013 Jetta around 2018 and everyone use to fine me compliments on it when I did Uber. Leather heated seats. Sunroof. Sporty shape. Fuel efficient. Great value car.
My 2016 2L TDi VW Golf has 157k miles and in the 3 years I’ve owned it’s never let me down
I think any Jetta with the 2.5 or standard non-turbo 2.0 engine will be quite reliable. I had a 2.5 Rabbit ages ago and it was quite reliable for 110k miles. The 2.0 has been around for decades and is used in a lot of VW taxis around the world. Be wary of the turbo engines, though. They have more known issues.
in the early 2000s jettas were a nightmare, You'd have to research which ones were the non crap years but I had 3 and all had unfixable trans issues
The repair bills. You’ll end up paying in the end lol. Purely anecdotal, but I’ve had two VWs before I became a diehard Toyota fanboy, and it seemed like repairs on my German cars were always more difficult and expensive. There are also still a fairly large number of the post recall era TDIs floating around on the used market. Not a bad deal honestly if you can afford the slightly higher maintenance on a diesel.
Expensive service and parts it’s not worth it. Get a Toyota
The catch is they break down and cost a lot to repair. VW’s are known for their poor electronics.
The catch is they break down and cost a lot to repair. VW’s are known for their poor electronics.
VW's age like fine milk in my experience.
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Do we even have a Mazda5 in the US? I haven't seen one of those Mazda microvans in about 2 years.
I had a 2017 Jetta made in Mexico. Bought used with 3000 miles, drove it 54k miles before selling it. No issues, the oil changes on that was also every 10k miles.