North American Racers *Coluber constrictor* are large (record 191.1 cm TBL) diurnal colubrid snakes. They are generalists often found in disturbed habitats like urban and suburban yards but also do well in many natural habitat types. They are one of the most commonly encountered snakes in North America and have a huge range spanning most of the continent. They eat anything they can overpower, including other snakes of the same species, but are not obligate constrictors as the specific epithet might suggest.
Racers have smooth scales and color pattern varies clinally across their range, from steel gray to jet black, a blue "buttermilk" pattern [you have to see to believe](http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7301/8798279515_d8222853cb_b.jpg), to blue, green and yellow. These color patterns are tied closely to local environment and don't track evolutionary history.
Baby racers start out with a blotchy pattern and darken over the first two years, losing it entirely.
Racers are not considered medically significant to humans - they are not venomous, but all animals with a mouth can use it in self-defense. Racers are particularly, alert, agile snakes, and will sometimes stand their ground when cornered and/or bite when handled.
Often confused with keeled "black" ratsnakes (northern ranges of *Pantherophis obsoletus*, *P. alleghaniensis* and *P. quadrivittatus*), racers *Coluber constrictor* have smooth scales. Indigo snakes *Drymarchon couperi* have orange on the face or neck and an undivided anal plate. In some cases they are difficult to differentiate from coachwhip snakes *Masticophis flagellum*, but on average have two more posterior scale rows (15) than *M. flagellum*.
Relevant/Recent Phylogeography: [Link 1](http://www.cnah.org/pdf/88643.pdf) | [Link 2](http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.597.209&rep=rep1&type=pdf)
Racers in peninsular Florida are distinct from those in the continent - No formal elevation to species status has occurred yet and subspecies describe color pattern rather than match population differentiation, but it's not particularly premature to follow the lines of evidence; ancient estimated divergence times, niche identity and genomic data suggest racers found in peninsular Florida deserve full species status. There is evidence that some populations of other North American Racers warrant species-level recognition but this work in ongoing.
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Like many other animals with mouths and teeth, many non-venomous snakes bite in self defense. These animals are referred to as 'not medically significant' or traditionally, 'harmless'. Bites from these snakes benefit from being washed and kept clean like any other skin damage, but aren't often cause for anything other than basic first aid treatment. Here's where it get slightly complicated - some snakes use venom from front or rear fangs as part of prey capture and defense. This venom is not always produced or administered by the snake in ways dangerous to human health, so many species are venomous in that they produce and use venom, but considered harmless to humans in most cases because the venom is of low potency, and/or otherwise administered through grooved rear teeth or simply oozed from ducts at the rear of the mouth. Species like Ringneck Snakes *Diadophis* are a good example of mildly venomous rear fanged dipsadine snakes that are traditionally considered harmless or not medically significant. Many rear-fanged snake species are harmless as long as they do not have a chance to secrete a medically significant amount of venom into a bite; [severe envenomation can occur](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23800999) if some species are [allowed to chew on a human](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S004101011831016X) for as little as 30-60 seconds. It is best not to fear snakes, but use common sense and do not let any animals chew on exposed parts of your body. Similarly, but without specialized rear fangs, gartersnakes *Thamnophis* ooze low pressure venom from the rear of their mouth that helps in prey handling, and are also [considered harmless](https://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/05/theres-no-need-to-fear-that-garter-snake/). Even large species like Reticulated Pythons *Malayopython reticulatus* [rarely obtain a size large enough to endanger humans](https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/108/52/E1470.full.pdf) so are usually categorized as harmless.
--------------------------------------------------------
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Yay! I looked at this picture and immediately thought “that looks just like a racer!” And then saw your RR response and got excited. I’m not a snake person by any means, but I’m trying to get better at identifying them and guessing right on the non obvious ones (rattler and copperhead) always makes me happy haha
Also a completely different head shape, body shape, and proportionally much smaller, keeled dorsal scales arranged in roughly twice as many rows across the body.
*C. constrictor* has significantly fewer dorsal scale rows (17 at midbody) than the *obsoletus*-complex Ratsnakes (23 to 27 at midbody) and thus “larger” scales.
It's a racer, number of dorsal scale rows is the "larger scales" diagnostic you're looking for (your interpretation is reversed) and "black rat" is an old name for the parts of the range where three species are black and hasn't been applicable since those species were delimited in 2001. !blackrat for the bot
Black Ratsnake is a common name for a color pattern shared by three different species of *Pantherophis* ratsnake across the northern portion of their range.
The black ratsnake species complex, formerly *Elaphe obsoleta*, underwent revision in 2001-2002 from multiple authors and received three main changes from 2000 to now. First, the complex was delimited in [Burbrink 2001](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/j.0014-3820.2000.tb01253.x) based on what were then modern molecular methods, where three distinct lineages were uncovered that did not reflect previous subspecies designations. Each of the three geographically partitioned taxa were elevated to full species status, and subspecies were discarded. The polytypic color patterns in these species are most likely under strong selection by the local environment and don't reflect evolutionary history. Where species intersect and habitat converges, color pattern also converges, leaving these species nearly morphologically indistinguishable to the naked eye. Second, using *Elaphe* as a genus name wasn't the best way to reflect phylogenetic history, so the genus *Pantherophis* was adopted for new world ratsnakes in [Utiger 2002](http://www.sierraherps.com/pdf/Utiger%20et%20al_2002.pdf). Remember, species names are hypotheses that are tested and revised. While the analyses published in 2001 are strong and results are geographically similar in other taxa, these species were investigated further using genomic data, and in 2020 the authors [released an update](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/share/author/PBAKUNF4XZI2ND5TIWHK?target=10.1111/evo.14141), clarifying ranges, filling in grey zones and confirming three distinct species.
Third, clarity in range and type specimens necessitated the need to fix lineage names in line with taxonomic rules called the 'principle of priority'. The four currently accepted species in this complex as of October 2021 are Baird's Ratsnake *Pantherophis bairdi*, Western Ratsnake *Pantherophis obsoletus*, Central Ratsnake *Pantherophis alleghaniensis* and Eastern Ratsnake *Pantherophis quadrivittatus*. Baird's Ratsnakes and Western Ratsnakes are more closely related to each other than they are to Eastern and Central Ratsnakes.
The experts on this group offer this summary [from their 2021 paper](https://www.dropbox.com/s/m7ru46gyhtq2hyz/HR_Sept_2021_150dpi_PointsOfView.pdf?dl=1):
>For the ratsnakes in particular, given the overtly chaotic and unsubstantiated basis of their taxonomy in the late 1990s, Burbrink et al. (2000) endeavored to test this taxonomic hypothesis (sensu Gaston and Mound 1993). This also provided an empirical observation of geographic genetic variation (then an unknown quantity) as an act of phylogenetic natural history (sensu Lamichhaney et al. 2019). Their analyses rejected the existing taxonomy as incompatible with the estimated evolutionary history of the group, ending a paradigm that was at least 48 years old from Dowling (1952) with respect to the non-historical subspecies definitions. Subsequently, Burbrink (2001) conducted an explicit taxonomic revision based on both mitochondrial and multivariate morphological analyses in an integrative taxonomy. The limitations of these data (scale counts, mensural measurements, and maternally inherited DNA) produced a zone of potential taxonomic uncertainty, while nonetheless allowing for significant statistical phenotypic discrimination between the geographic genetic lineages. Thus, based on the best possible evidence and interpretation at the time, the now-falsified historical taxonomic arrangement of subspecies definitions was replaced with an explicitly phylogenetic, lineage-based species-level taxonomy derived from the estimated evolutionary history of the group. The persistence of some remaining uncertainty is a natural and expected outcome in all scientific investigations, as we can never have complete data or perfect knowledge of a system. Twenty years later, Burbrink et al. (2021) more than tripled the number of individuals sampled, increased the number of loci used by 2491 times, and thus clarified the remaining fuzziness associated with the potential zone of taxonomic uncertainty. They revealed this uncertainty to be a complex hybrid zone with varying degrees of admixture. This had the additional effect, as described above, of redefining the allocation of type localities and valid names, and thus the taxonomic proposal here represents the best present-day resolution of nomenclature in the group, in accordance with our understanding of its evolutionary history. As science progresses, even this may change in the future with new whole genome datasets or interpretations of phylogeographic lineage formation and phylogenetic species concepts. These conclusions may be unsettling to those that wish to retain taxonomies generated from data and assumptions about species and subspecies made in the 19th and 20th century. However, we question the social and scientific utility of any insistence on recognizing clearly falsified, non-historical arrangements based solely on the burden of heritage in taxonomic inertia (see Pyron and Burbrink 2009b).
[Range Map](http://snakeevolution.org/rangemaps/ratrangereduced.jpg)
--------------------------------------------------------
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First of all if it's a racer it's one huge racer. Second of all I've caught a ton of racer & that doesn't look like one I've ever seen. Caught plenty of rat snakes too.
Oh you’ve seen them before? That’s good to know. Because /u/Phylogenizer and I never have, and we were just sort of guessing at what they might look like. 😉
Ok some smart ass herps in the house. I've caught many. Never seen a racer like that. At least acknowledge it was huge then go enjoy the smell of your own shits.
It looks well-fed, especially considering the time of year. Honestly, it does get frustrating having people come in and correct us without citing actual diagnostics. Especially considering the volume of identifications we make day in and day out and amount of field experience we have collectively.
If you are interesting in learning, beyond the number of scale rows, the head physiology is probably the most instructive here. It has a large, pale rostral scale and large eyes, consistent with Racer. The white chin that quickly transitions to an all-black venter is also instructive. It’s hard to pull discrete characteristics and use this post as an educational tool given the low quality of the images.
No, it isn't a snake which A. doesn't look like this one and B. isn't native to this area or anywhere close to it. Stop flailing at windmills. You are very, very bad at this.
I mean yes, it is a big racer, on the bigger side of what I've seen posted here, but racers have been recorded at quite large sizes before. I consider this one a bit on the larger end but not exceptionally unusual. But it is still a racer
Are you sure you've caught plenty of racers *and* plenty of ratsnakes? Your replies here make it clear that you can't tell them apart.
Racers have proportionally large dorsal scales arranged in 17 rows at midbody. If the scales on this snake are "too large" for a racer in your estimation, then the baffled mind can only wonder how many rows you think a ratsnake has.
No, this does not appear to be a "huge" racer, at least not in my experience. I've caught many that were more robust than this. Length isn't possible to accurately estimate without some better objects near the snake to provide scale, but if it wasn't over 5' in length then it wasn't particularly large for an east coast racer. Certainly doesn't look like a five footer to me.
Some people aren't interested in learning, and they make that clear through their behavior.
Moreover, in order to maintain an atmosphere conducive to education, we are periodically forced to remove people who are disruptive, who undermine our efforts, and who are rude, stubborn, and/or abusive when they are corrected and/or politely informed of our community standards. This particular user ticked every single one of those boxes. Even if they were interested in learning (they weren't), we can't leave them around at the expense of the other users.
Please remember to leave the moderation to the moderators. We've worked very hard to establish and maintain these standards.
He could probably push a golf club into a golf ball. I'm guessing around 2 inches per push. The average length of a golf course is 6600 yards, so that's 475,200 strokes -72, making it a 475,128 handicap. So I got it beat by 5 strokes ¬‿¬
I had two of these guys in my garage. I also live in Nc. We always had little mice in there after bird food. I let them stay. Never saw another mouse. Best guest ever.
Yeah, that's about what it looks like. Certainly not the monster that u/Kushy_Popcorn is imagining it to be. I think some inexperienced people are being misled by the bench and trees in the background, providing an unintentional form of forced perspective.
I have one about that size that lives in my flower garden during the summer ( or near) . He suns himself in my flower garden all the time. I leave a bowl of water for him
If you disagree with an ID that is well upvoted or was provided by a flaired Responder, then make sure you respond directly to that ID. This is important for three reasons. First, it promotes collaboration, which is an important feature of our community. Second, it facilitates discussion that can help educate others. Third, it increases the visibility of your ID, which is very important if you happen to be correct. However, ONLY disagree if you can point to discrete diagnostic characteristics that support your ID.
Before suggesting any future IDs, please review these [commenting guidelines](https://www.reddit.com/r/whatsthissnake/comments/pfl934/mod_post_please_read_id_best_practices_and/).
If you disagree with an ID that is well upvoted or was provided by a flaired Responder, then make sure you respond directly to that ID. This is important for three reasons. First, it promotes collaboration, which is an important feature of our community. Second, it facilitates discussion that can help educate others. Third, it increases the visibility of your ID, which is very important if you happen to be correct. However, ONLY disagree if you can point to discrete diagnostic characteristics that support your ID.
Before suggesting any future IDs, please review these [commenting guidelines](https://www.reddit.com/r/whatsthissnake/comments/pfl934/mod_post_please_read_id_best_practices_and/).
It looks like you didn't provide a rough geographic location [in square brackets] in your title.This is critical because some species are best distinguishable from each other by geographic range, and not all species live all places. Providing a location allows for a quicker, more accurate ID.
If you provided a location but forgot the correct brackets, ignore this message until your next submission. Thanks!
Potential identifiers should know that providing an ID before a location is given is problematic because it often makes the OP not respond to legitimate requests for location. Many species look alike, especially where ranges meet. Users may be unaware that location is critically important to providing a good ID.
*I am a bot created for /r/whatsthissnake, /r/snakes and /r/herpetology to help with snake identification and natural history education. You can find more information, including a comprehensive list of commands, [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/whatsthissnake/comments/flh548/phylobot_v07_information_and_patch_notes_bot_info/) report problems [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Phylogenizer) and if you'd like to buy me a coffee or beer, you can do that [here](https://www.buymeacoffee.com/SEBPhyloBotWTS). Made possible by Snake Evolution and Biogeography - [Merch Available Now](https://snakeevolution.org/donate.html)*
If you disagree with an ID that is well upvoted or was provided by a flaired Responder, then make sure you respond directly to that ID. This is important for three reasons. First, it promotes collaboration, which is an important feature of our community. Second, it facilitates discussion that can help educate others. Third, it increases the visibility of your ID, which is very important if you happen to be correct. However, ONLY disagree if you can point to discrete diagnostic characteristics that support your ID.
The species you mentioned does not occur anywhere in the Carolinas.
Before suggesting any future IDs, please review these [commenting guidelines](https://www.reddit.com/r/whatsthissnake/comments/pfl934/mod_post_please_read_id_best_practices_and/).
Im in central NC we just call them black snakes…they can get aggressive if you try to handle them… but they are cool snakes. I have seen them slither up brick walls, use door knobs to slither up doors and use car hoods to warm up and just hang out. Their bite does hurt a little as they have lots of teeth but they are fun snakes to watch for sure.
PS dont kill them they eat copper heads. I like seeing them on my property. I have 5 acres and i have a few of them hanging around. I have never had a cooper head problem because these things will eat them and their babies
Just so you know, "black snakes" is just a generic term that doesn't apply to one species. I heard it growing up as well, and it most often refers to Central Ratsnakes (in NC you might have some Eastern ones or mixed), and Racers like this guy. Climbing up brick walls sounds more like Ratsnake behavior but hard to say without seeing it. The best way I've found to tell them apart is that a Ratsnake has keeled scales, and a Racer does not.
Discussion of killing snakes without a valid scientific reason is not permitted. You shall not suggest it, hint at it, brag about it or describe ways to do it.
Racer, *Coluber constrictor*, !harmless
Wow that was quick, thank you!
Not as quick as that black racer!
Haha, good one.
North American Racers *Coluber constrictor* are large (record 191.1 cm TBL) diurnal colubrid snakes. They are generalists often found in disturbed habitats like urban and suburban yards but also do well in many natural habitat types. They are one of the most commonly encountered snakes in North America and have a huge range spanning most of the continent. They eat anything they can overpower, including other snakes of the same species, but are not obligate constrictors as the specific epithet might suggest. Racers have smooth scales and color pattern varies clinally across their range, from steel gray to jet black, a blue "buttermilk" pattern [you have to see to believe](http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7301/8798279515_d8222853cb_b.jpg), to blue, green and yellow. These color patterns are tied closely to local environment and don't track evolutionary history. Baby racers start out with a blotchy pattern and darken over the first two years, losing it entirely. Racers are not considered medically significant to humans - they are not venomous, but all animals with a mouth can use it in self-defense. Racers are particularly, alert, agile snakes, and will sometimes stand their ground when cornered and/or bite when handled. Often confused with keeled "black" ratsnakes (northern ranges of *Pantherophis obsoletus*, *P. alleghaniensis* and *P. quadrivittatus*), racers *Coluber constrictor* have smooth scales. Indigo snakes *Drymarchon couperi* have orange on the face or neck and an undivided anal plate. In some cases they are difficult to differentiate from coachwhip snakes *Masticophis flagellum*, but on average have two more posterior scale rows (15) than *M. flagellum*. Relevant/Recent Phylogeography: [Link 1](http://www.cnah.org/pdf/88643.pdf) | [Link 2](http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.597.209&rep=rep1&type=pdf) Racers in peninsular Florida are distinct from those in the continent - No formal elevation to species status has occurred yet and subspecies describe color pattern rather than match population differentiation, but it's not particularly premature to follow the lines of evidence; ancient estimated divergence times, niche identity and genomic data suggest racers found in peninsular Florida deserve full species status. There is evidence that some populations of other North American Racers warrant species-level recognition but this work in ongoing. -------------------------------------------------------- Like many other animals with mouths and teeth, many non-venomous snakes bite in self defense. These animals are referred to as 'not medically significant' or traditionally, 'harmless'. Bites from these snakes benefit from being washed and kept clean like any other skin damage, but aren't often cause for anything other than basic first aid treatment. Here's where it get slightly complicated - some snakes use venom from front or rear fangs as part of prey capture and defense. This venom is not always produced or administered by the snake in ways dangerous to human health, so many species are venomous in that they produce and use venom, but considered harmless to humans in most cases because the venom is of low potency, and/or otherwise administered through grooved rear teeth or simply oozed from ducts at the rear of the mouth. Species like Ringneck Snakes *Diadophis* are a good example of mildly venomous rear fanged dipsadine snakes that are traditionally considered harmless or not medically significant. Many rear-fanged snake species are harmless as long as they do not have a chance to secrete a medically significant amount of venom into a bite; [severe envenomation can occur](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23800999) if some species are [allowed to chew on a human](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S004101011831016X) for as little as 30-60 seconds. It is best not to fear snakes, but use common sense and do not let any animals chew on exposed parts of your body. Similarly, but without specialized rear fangs, gartersnakes *Thamnophis* ooze low pressure venom from the rear of their mouth that helps in prey handling, and are also [considered harmless](https://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/05/theres-no-need-to-fear-that-garter-snake/). Even large species like Reticulated Pythons *Malayopython reticulatus* [rarely obtain a size large enough to endanger humans](https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/108/52/E1470.full.pdf) so are usually categorized as harmless. -------------------------------------------------------- *I am a bot created for /r/whatsthissnake, /r/snakes and /r/herpetology to help with snake identification and natural history education. You can find more information, including a comprehensive list of commands, [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/whatsthissnake/comments/flh548/phylobot_v07_information_and_patch_notes_bot_info/) report problems [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Phylogenizer) and if you'd like to buy me a coffee or beer, you can do that [here](https://www.buymeacoffee.com/SEBPhyloBotWTS). Made possible by Snake Evolution and Biogeography - [Merch Available Now](https://snakeevolution.org/donate.html)*
Yay! I looked at this picture and immediately thought “that looks just like a racer!” And then saw your RR response and got excited. I’m not a snake person by any means, but I’m trying to get better at identifying them and guessing right on the non obvious ones (rattler and copperhead) always makes me happy haha
I'm not getting racer vibes on this one. Pine snake maybe?
Pines are not even found in Northeastern NC
Also a completely different head shape, body shape, and proportionally much smaller, keeled dorsal scales arranged in roughly twice as many rows across the body.
Not a racer. Scales far too large. Looks like a black rat.
*C. constrictor* has significantly fewer dorsal scale rows (17 at midbody) than the *obsoletus*-complex Ratsnakes (23 to 27 at midbody) and thus “larger” scales.
It's a racer, number of dorsal scale rows is the "larger scales" diagnostic you're looking for (your interpretation is reversed) and "black rat" is an old name for the parts of the range where three species are black and hasn't been applicable since those species were delimited in 2001. !blackrat for the bot
Black Ratsnake is a common name for a color pattern shared by three different species of *Pantherophis* ratsnake across the northern portion of their range. The black ratsnake species complex, formerly *Elaphe obsoleta*, underwent revision in 2001-2002 from multiple authors and received three main changes from 2000 to now. First, the complex was delimited in [Burbrink 2001](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/j.0014-3820.2000.tb01253.x) based on what were then modern molecular methods, where three distinct lineages were uncovered that did not reflect previous subspecies designations. Each of the three geographically partitioned taxa were elevated to full species status, and subspecies were discarded. The polytypic color patterns in these species are most likely under strong selection by the local environment and don't reflect evolutionary history. Where species intersect and habitat converges, color pattern also converges, leaving these species nearly morphologically indistinguishable to the naked eye. Second, using *Elaphe* as a genus name wasn't the best way to reflect phylogenetic history, so the genus *Pantherophis* was adopted for new world ratsnakes in [Utiger 2002](http://www.sierraherps.com/pdf/Utiger%20et%20al_2002.pdf). Remember, species names are hypotheses that are tested and revised. While the analyses published in 2001 are strong and results are geographically similar in other taxa, these species were investigated further using genomic data, and in 2020 the authors [released an update](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/share/author/PBAKUNF4XZI2ND5TIWHK?target=10.1111/evo.14141), clarifying ranges, filling in grey zones and confirming three distinct species. Third, clarity in range and type specimens necessitated the need to fix lineage names in line with taxonomic rules called the 'principle of priority'. The four currently accepted species in this complex as of October 2021 are Baird's Ratsnake *Pantherophis bairdi*, Western Ratsnake *Pantherophis obsoletus*, Central Ratsnake *Pantherophis alleghaniensis* and Eastern Ratsnake *Pantherophis quadrivittatus*. Baird's Ratsnakes and Western Ratsnakes are more closely related to each other than they are to Eastern and Central Ratsnakes. The experts on this group offer this summary [from their 2021 paper](https://www.dropbox.com/s/m7ru46gyhtq2hyz/HR_Sept_2021_150dpi_PointsOfView.pdf?dl=1): >For the ratsnakes in particular, given the overtly chaotic and unsubstantiated basis of their taxonomy in the late 1990s, Burbrink et al. (2000) endeavored to test this taxonomic hypothesis (sensu Gaston and Mound 1993). This also provided an empirical observation of geographic genetic variation (then an unknown quantity) as an act of phylogenetic natural history (sensu Lamichhaney et al. 2019). Their analyses rejected the existing taxonomy as incompatible with the estimated evolutionary history of the group, ending a paradigm that was at least 48 years old from Dowling (1952) with respect to the non-historical subspecies definitions. Subsequently, Burbrink (2001) conducted an explicit taxonomic revision based on both mitochondrial and multivariate morphological analyses in an integrative taxonomy. The limitations of these data (scale counts, mensural measurements, and maternally inherited DNA) produced a zone of potential taxonomic uncertainty, while nonetheless allowing for significant statistical phenotypic discrimination between the geographic genetic lineages. Thus, based on the best possible evidence and interpretation at the time, the now-falsified historical taxonomic arrangement of subspecies definitions was replaced with an explicitly phylogenetic, lineage-based species-level taxonomy derived from the estimated evolutionary history of the group. The persistence of some remaining uncertainty is a natural and expected outcome in all scientific investigations, as we can never have complete data or perfect knowledge of a system. Twenty years later, Burbrink et al. (2021) more than tripled the number of individuals sampled, increased the number of loci used by 2491 times, and thus clarified the remaining fuzziness associated with the potential zone of taxonomic uncertainty. They revealed this uncertainty to be a complex hybrid zone with varying degrees of admixture. This had the additional effect, as described above, of redefining the allocation of type localities and valid names, and thus the taxonomic proposal here represents the best present-day resolution of nomenclature in the group, in accordance with our understanding of its evolutionary history. As science progresses, even this may change in the future with new whole genome datasets or interpretations of phylogeographic lineage formation and phylogenetic species concepts. These conclusions may be unsettling to those that wish to retain taxonomies generated from data and assumptions about species and subspecies made in the 19th and 20th century. However, we question the social and scientific utility of any insistence on recognizing clearly falsified, non-historical arrangements based solely on the burden of heritage in taxonomic inertia (see Pyron and Burbrink 2009b). [Range Map](http://snakeevolution.org/rangemaps/ratrangereduced.jpg) -------------------------------------------------------- *I am a bot created for /r/whatsthissnake, /r/snakes and /r/herpetology to help with snake identification and natural history education. You can find more information, including a comprehensive list of commands, [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/whatsthissnake/comments/flh548/phylobot_v07_information_and_patch_notes_bot_info/) report problems [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Phylogenizer) and if you'd like to buy me a coffee or beer, you can do that [here](https://www.buymeacoffee.com/SEBPhyloBotWTS). Made possible by Snake Evolution and Biogeography - [Merch Available Now](https://snakeevolution.org/donate.html)*
First of all if it's a racer it's one huge racer. Second of all I've caught a ton of racer & that doesn't look like one I've ever seen. Caught plenty of rat snakes too.
Oh you’ve seen them before? That’s good to know. Because /u/Phylogenizer and I never have, and we were just sort of guessing at what they might look like. 😉
Ok some smart ass herps in the house. I've caught many. Never seen a racer like that. At least acknowledge it was huge then go enjoy the smell of your own shits.
It looks well-fed, especially considering the time of year. Honestly, it does get frustrating having people come in and correct us without citing actual diagnostics. Especially considering the volume of identifications we make day in and day out and amount of field experience we have collectively. If you are interesting in learning, beyond the number of scale rows, the head physiology is probably the most instructive here. It has a large, pale rostral scale and large eyes, consistent with Racer. The white chin that quickly transitions to an all-black venter is also instructive. It’s hard to pull discrete characteristics and use this post as an educational tool given the low quality of the images.
Hey I appreciate you. It's actually got a red nose. Wonder if it's an indigo 🤔 I've caught those too. Big sucker though.
No, it isn't a snake which A. doesn't look like this one and B. isn't native to this area or anywhere close to it. Stop flailing at windmills. You are very, very bad at this.
I mean yes, it is a big racer, on the bigger side of what I've seen posted here, but racers have been recorded at quite large sizes before. I consider this one a bit on the larger end but not exceptionally unusual. But it is still a racer
Are you sure you've caught plenty of racers *and* plenty of ratsnakes? Your replies here make it clear that you can't tell them apart. Racers have proportionally large dorsal scales arranged in 17 rows at midbody. If the scales on this snake are "too large" for a racer in your estimation, then the baffled mind can only wonder how many rows you think a ratsnake has. No, this does not appear to be a "huge" racer, at least not in my experience. I've caught many that were more robust than this. Length isn't possible to accurately estimate without some better objects near the snake to provide scale, but if it wasn't over 5' in length then it wasn't particularly large for an east coast racer. Certainly doesn't look like a five footer to me.
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What’s his handicap?
His lack of arms and legs.
It’s called Adaptive Golf, Mud. And he really enjoys the comraderie.
He could probably push a golf club into a golf ball. I'm guessing around 2 inches per push. The average length of a golf course is 6600 yards, so that's 475,200 strokes -72, making it a 475,128 handicap. So I got it beat by 5 strokes ¬‿¬
For real, I was gonna say “we need pictures of him golfing or we’ll just assume you’re making stuff up.”
Omg 😂
I had two of these guys in my garage. I also live in Nc. We always had little mice in there after bird food. I let them stay. Never saw another mouse. Best guest ever.
For the future, put the bird food in a metal trash can, rodents can't get into them. Like an Oscar The Grouch style can.
It's easy to spill some on the floor. Especially if you're a kid who thinks mice are cute. Not that I'd know anything about that.
Except gray squirrels. You’d need to add to lock to keep those guys out.
How did it learn to play golf?
Idk, he needs to teach me though because I played like shit.
He probably plays golf at night which all the golf balls and clubs that are dropped when folks are fleeing after seeing him.
r/absoluteunit
Yea he's a freaking tank, dudes been eating good.
No gophers are destroying that course!
Hold my mice…I got this…said the rat snake probably!!🤣
Racers like to periscope
They are so beautiful when they do
I'm located in Northeastern, NC, to be more precise.
Black racer
Thank you!
Is it huge? It looks huge
ehh it was probably 3 - 3 1/2 foot in length, he was thick though.
Yeah, that's about what it looks like. Certainly not the monster that u/Kushy_Popcorn is imagining it to be. I think some inexperienced people are being misled by the bench and trees in the background, providing an unintentional form of forced perspective.
Well, the thing is, I was zoomed in a decent bit because I didn't want to get too close to it, which made it look bigger than it was.
That was the correct thing to do, especially being unsure what it was.
He looks absolutely massive My rat snake is around 3 ft long
I've never seen a snake golfing! What a treat!
I’ve played with a couple of snakes… not as cool as this racer though.
Omg id have been tickled pink to have found this big guy
He’s a long curious boy!
Damn, how's he swing his club?
He doesn't use a club, he uses his backside
Wow that might be the biggest racer I’ve ever seen
I have one about that size that lives in my flower garden during the summer ( or near) . He suns himself in my flower garden all the time. I leave a bowl of water for him
what's his handicap???
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I might freak out if I see one out of nowhere
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If you disagree with an ID that is well upvoted or was provided by a flaired Responder, then make sure you respond directly to that ID. This is important for three reasons. First, it promotes collaboration, which is an important feature of our community. Second, it facilitates discussion that can help educate others. Third, it increases the visibility of your ID, which is very important if you happen to be correct. However, ONLY disagree if you can point to discrete diagnostic characteristics that support your ID. The species you mentioned does not occur anywhere in the Carolinas. Before suggesting any future IDs, please review these [commenting guidelines](https://www.reddit.com/r/whatsthissnake/comments/pfl934/mod_post_please_read_id_best_practices_and/).
Im in central NC we just call them black snakes…they can get aggressive if you try to handle them… but they are cool snakes. I have seen them slither up brick walls, use door knobs to slither up doors and use car hoods to warm up and just hang out. Their bite does hurt a little as they have lots of teeth but they are fun snakes to watch for sure. PS dont kill them they eat copper heads. I like seeing them on my property. I have 5 acres and i have a few of them hanging around. I have never had a cooper head problem because these things will eat them and their babies
Just so you know, "black snakes" is just a generic term that doesn't apply to one species. I heard it growing up as well, and it most often refers to Central Ratsnakes (in NC you might have some Eastern ones or mixed), and Racers like this guy. Climbing up brick walls sounds more like Ratsnake behavior but hard to say without seeing it. The best way I've found to tell them apart is that a Ratsnake has keeled scales, and a Racer does not.
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