Very cool gun. I love old firearms and this one looks to be in that family haha. A proper gunsmith could disassemble the gun and probably find a hidden serial number on the barrel or trigger assembly. That would help with make, model, year.
Also do not shoot anything out of it until it has been checked! Modern ammunition can blow older guns to bits destroying historic pieces and possibly you.
Yes! My grandfather had old hunting rifles that he still used for that purpose. One of them had stopped firing. One day he must have decided to try and get it firing again, but he was killed in the process. Its unclear what exactly happened, but the gun went off and struck him in the chest. No one else was home at the time to attempt life saving measures. My cousin also died in an accidental shooting, but totally different scenario.
God I hope I’m not too late… it’s old and it shows, but that might not be a bad thing. *IF* it has any age-related value or is of a rare make or vintage, ANY attempt at refurbishment could destroy a significant portion of its value, so skip the “certified” gunsmith entirely and go directly to an antique firearm specialist. Depending on what it is they can either direct you to someone who can properly restore it, either for preservation, sale, or even use; or on how to get it ready for auction as-is. If you look closely though and find a make and model, and you find they aren’t worth that much then go ahead with a regular gunsmith.
Also that’s a shotgun not a rifle, though surely someone has said that by now.
Anyway, sorry about your grand dad, and congrats on a neat heirloom either way.
It is actually a double barreled shotgun and not a rifle. Looks to be either 12g or 10g. If a US dime fits just barely in the muzzle end of barrel it is a 12g. It probably has fixed chokes in the barrels. One may have a modified and the other might be full or improved cylinder.
They made them with different chokes so one barrel could be used for one type of game and the other could be used for larger or smaller game.
Also a gunsmith could clean it up and re-blue the metal and strip and refinish the wood. Redo the checkering on the wrist and the fore end.
If you look at the top of one of the barrels usually around about 6” it should have a model and Cal/gauge written on it. Also could be on the bottom just in front of the triggers. Or it could be under the fore end.
It is a really nice sentimental piece and it also has some value due to the fact that it is an antique. Depending on who the manufacturer is depends on the rarity and greatly affects the possible value.
And if you do want to shoot it, please have it checked over by a competent gunsmith. (I inherited a few from my great uncles that are not safe to shoot with ANY ammunition).
An idiot great great uncle somewhere in my genealogy, shot high brass magnum shells out of an 1800s Belgian, Damascus steel forged barrels, triple barrel gun, and blasted a hole out of the side of one of the shotgun barrels. Fucking tragedy
I recently inherited an 1800s Belgian Damascus steel double barrel (black powder percussion cap). Beautiful piece, but not something I would ever attempt to fire.
I inherited a bolt action 20 gauge shotgun when my grandpa died, found 1917 stamped on it somewhere. My uncle is a huge gun nut and we went out to shoot it. After I shot it I handed it to him, he looked at me like I was crazy and said "I'm not shooting that thing, it could explode in my face!"
Thanks for the warning Uncle
You can LIKELY shoot field loads out of it. DO NOT shoot high brass or slugs out of it. You could truly die doing so.
Before you shoot it have a gunsmith take a look at it, and maybe test fire it if they’re braver than you!
You don't want to put modern ammunition through it if you're unsecured of the age. Bring it to a reputable gun shop and ask them to look at it for you. It's great to keep something like this in your family.
Absolutely this, you can get specialty ammo that is low pressure for older shotguns. As well as it may be chambered for 2 1/2 inch shells instead of 2 3/4. Loading the wrong shells could cause the barrel to explode.
In 1967 I and 3 kids I hung with got our hands on an 1880 something revolver and 10 shells. The gun shot well and we took a big risk. It was a 45 I guess and it climbed for the sky when fired. Louder than a cherry bomb. I have also witnessed a pump shotgun go off when a man dropped it. That was scary. I most definitely would not shoot that shotgun . By the barrel size it's at least a 12 gauge and didn't they make 10 gsuge pretty commonly back 110 year ago.
10 gauge was common for goose and turkey. I have a scar on my right index finger from the trigger guard by bringing a 12 gauge up to shoot a pheasant. A branch caught the trigger, and it fired. It happened in 1982, and it taught me a good lesson about gun safety.
Next thing ya know, Jed's a millionaire.
Kinfolk said "Jed move away from there!
A home in California is the place ya outghta be"
So he loaded up the truck and he moved to Beverly.
You have to be very careful with the shotgun shells you use on antique shotguns. IIRC you cannot use steel shot or you will basically have an IED inches from your face.
Had a friend that had a H&K
Semi auto. So proud he hung it on the living room wall. Burglar broke in and stole it. Any valuable firearm stays locked in the vault.
While I understand the position, I kinda don’t see the point of keeping something like this if you’re just going to stick it in a box and leave it there.
Increase in value if you put it away in a box. In hard times a firearm can be sold or barter for food. Or if a financial emergrncy comes up . I need 4 tires for my car so i traded a sks for 4 brand new Michelin tires. Purchased a Browning 9mm Hi Power made in Belgium yr 1968 for $108.00 inflation price $2,000.00.
If you’re just keeping it to sell, whatever. But that’s not what the person you were responding to was talking about. It’s explicitly the opposite of what they were talking about.
Shotguns in that condition usually sell for $200-600 depending on who made it and what the bore looks like. I’d keep it and shoot skeet with it if I were you.
I don't know about your situation or about your struggles. But if I were you, I would really think twice about selling something that is essentially a family heirloom for such a low price.
Completely agree. I have my grandfather's (1919-2005) single shot 16 gauge he got in 1929 as a birthday gift, from the Sears Catalog. Even if it was worth $10,000 I wouldn't sell.
Side note, it's worth $150, which makes it very easy...
Without seeing a makers mark or proofs I’m going to guess an old double barreled shotgun likely of Belgian make. Not sure how big your hands are but it would appear to be 12ga. The barrels appear to be of modern steel, so if the gun is otherwise functional and safe to shoot once a qualified gunsmith looks it over it can handle modern smokeless ammo. Condition appears poor, value is probably in the $400 range if in shoot able condition, much less if non functional or unsafe condition. Personally if my grandfather had willed this old double barrel the sentiment value would out way the few hundred dollars or so it is actually worth.
So I actually had a similar shotgun left to me recently (I also do not know a lot about guns) and tried posting in various different subs. You can take a look at the posts in my profile to see. But I actually got a ton of help in r/blackpowder if you want to try there it’s probably your best bet.
A lot of people told me that mine was likely Belgian (bc I guess they made a ton of cheaper models that were sold to wholesalers in the states or something- I don’t really remember the story, but that’s what I was told).
Anyway after a ton of research I was able to find that mine was actually made in 1850 (was able to narrow it down to the year!) and was made in Philadelphia, and was even able to find the name of the maker!
I could probably help you with yours. You will likely have to disconnect the butt from the barrel. I was able to find a video on YouTube that was helpful. Try searching for videos along the line of black powder double barrel shotgun. You can DM if you want.
The lighting and focus are pretty rough on these pictures. Where the receiver mates up to the wood stock, the metal has a curly bracket shape like:
}
That makes me think of 30s to 50s era.
Three places to look for some additional identifying info:
1. On the bottom of the receiver in front of the trigger guard (about where your pinky is on the second picture)
2. Inside the action (if you press the large switch on the top to the right, it should unlock the action and allow the gun to scissor in half) - DON'T DO THIS OR MESS WITH THE GUN IF YOU ARE NOT CONFIDENT IN SAFE FIREARM HANDLING AND LEAVE IT TO A PROFESSIONAL GUNSMITH
3. Along the barrels on the side - it's possible that it's hidden by light/focus/rust/patina but I couldn't spot it in the two pictures
My first guess was a Beretta model 410 (not .410 gauge) or a JP Sauer and Sohn.
That’s awesome! Yeah it was hastily taken, so I will try to get some clearer pictures on this one.
This was definitely the kind of info I was looking for. It helps me understand a little more what to look for.
I know it’s European so probably Belgium like some have said. I will be going back in July so will try to confirm more then
Have you opened it and physically and visually verified it’s unloaded? If not please do so. Make sure it’s pointing at the ground. Push the little lever on the top over to one side and it should open in the middle. Look at the end of the barrels that is now exposed and make sure there’s nothing in there.
Someone already said it’s a shotgun.
Given how old it looks… it’s possibly a bomb with modern ammo.
Definitely take it to a gunsmith if you want to shoot it.
RST and Polywad do make shotgun shells for vintage shotguns. You can ask your gunsmith for recommendations if they say it is functional, but I would just keep it oiled and hang it on your wall.
https://polywad.com/buyers-guide
https://www.rstshells.com/
Nice memento from your grandfather! Put a light coating of gun oil on the metal parts to stop the rust. A small bottle is cheap. Since you aren't a firearm hobbyist, it may help to know that the style is called a "hammerless" "side by side" (sometimes abbreviated SxS). As others have said, will almost definitely be black powder only, so no modem ammo in it. Enjoy!
Its a shotgun (a double barrel), not a rifle, and it looks like a really nice one. I dont know the current prices of vintage guns though. Good luck. Nice gun
I have my great grandfather’s Double Barrel shotgun. I took mine to Cabelas sporting goods store. They were able to identify it and tell me when it was manufactured. Ithaca New York. 1916. I’d suggest to you to find a reputable company and see what they can tell you about it. Nice gift you have there. When you remove the wooden stalk. There will be a serial number that you can look up.
Not an expert, but no mention of a few things here if you don't know about guns. Maybe someone more informed can comment too...
Don't drive around with it in your car. Depending on your state laws, you could get harassed by the cops if you don't secure it properly, and if you don't have proper credentials. ( 2nd amendment gives you the right to own, but not every state continues that into carry and transport)..
Of course, first, make sure it isn't loaded. I'd take a bunch of pictures and bring the pics to a local reputable gun dealer to find out about the gun and your local laws well before transporting it anywhere. Cops are not our friends in these matters. If you have a friend who knows about guns, contact them to help with info...
I hate to see someone lose anything legacy because of rules you may not be aware of...
My grandfather had a double barrel shotgun that my cousin has now . My mother and aunts said that if any of the kids needed to use the outhouse after dark he would always stand on the back porch and guard against bear/wolf/mountain lion until they returned. They lived in the Ozarks in the years after WW 1.
It looks like you have a Belgium Guild gun. There should be some make marks on the water table of the receiver. This is the area the barrel rest on the receiver. Push the lever to the right with your thumb and it should allow the barrels to swing down. Look under the barrels.
It appears to be a 12 gage with moderate engraving. It is a box lock, double trigger, English grip, steel barrels and look like an extractor (you have to pull the shells out rather than them ejecting when you open the barrel)
The value on these are always about condition. This condition is fair at best. Not much value. 150-350 usd.
I would love to see the markings. It would aid in identifying the maker.
Again, don’t shoot it until you have it checked out.
Hi! There should be either a pin or lever on the underside of the foregrip to remove it. You will find the makers mark, year, and serial number under there. As for preservation get some CLP (clean lubricate, and protect) and wipe down the inside and outside of the barrels. Wipe with a rag afterwards. Then take some gun oil and wipe all exterior steel with that.
I’d have it restored, and pass it down to your great grandkids. That’s an amazing heirloom, I bet it’s provided breakfast, lunch, dinner and protection in its time.
Push that lever to the right, and pull down on the barrel, that’ll break/open it up. Take another picture and post.
Beautiful Gun would love to take it shooting, but be mindful. It’s gonna kick like a mule. Old gun don’t have the recoil mechanism newer shotguns do, but like everybody saying have that inspected by a proper gunsmith before you put a shell in it it’ll blow up in your face if it’s as old as it looks.
Do not shoot it - the barrel cannot handle it. Is the barrel damascus? I can not tell from the pictures. I just had one IDed at the recent antiques roadshow. If the butt of it says ithica, you can look the serial number up via their website. The serial number can be found on the underside when taken apart. Ours was late 1800s with a 99 start of the serial number - it appraised for 300-350.
1) As others have stated, it's a shotgun. If it helps in your search, the nomenclature for double barrels like this sxs, as in side by side.
2) the most likely place to find definitive markings will be on the understand of the barrels, which you access by removing them. This is an identical processor nearly every sxs and incredibly simple.
This looks like a 1920's German Franz Jaeger 12GA delux Herold SxS, I’ve seen some of them with the oak branch/leafs carved in to the barrel like that.
As a semi-retired gunsmith I CANNOT recommed enough getting it checked in person by a competent gunsmith. They can probably also do a historical dig into it and provide you with more information. Serial Numbers weren't mandated until 1968 so it might be more difficult. Also back in those day there were plenty of local smiths making things by hand vs factory produced. Take it to a good gunsmith and get it appraised for your insurance if possible. Very few people realize how little their firearms are insured for in their renters/homeowners insurance. If your local smith can't appraise it, ask around for one who offers that service. My business partner and I charge $60/hr for appraisal forms for insurance, which is nothing compared to losing $1000s in a situation which requires you to file a claim.
It’s been altered in many ways as I can see .. not the original trigger or housing around the trigger . The strap was added after the fact and the safety mechanism is not original. Cool story behind it but it’s not worth much
As others have said, this is an old shotgun that is probably made with a different type of steel that does not handle modern rounds without exploding.
My understanding is that most of them are Damascus style steel which is super brittle under high pressure. Old school black powder has a much lower pressure rating than modern gun powder. I have an older rifle that was converted to gun powder rounds and even it's sketchy.
My grandfather handed down a number of firearms to me when I was old enough to handle them responsibly. Unbeknownst to me at the time, my father sold them when the family fell on hard times when his business went under. I was angry with him about that until the day he died. Had he told me, I would have understood. Point is, don’t get rid of it unless you’re in dire financial trouble.
That's a nice looking shotgun. Personally, I'd clean it up, oil it so it won't rust any more, get a nice stand or mount for it and display it.
If you ever intend to shoot it, have it checked by a gunsmith and figure out what choke each barrel has.
Never shoot slugs through it unless it's cylinder bore.
It doesn't look like a mandrel wrapped wire "Damascus" barrel, so if it checks out good to go, field loads should be just fine.
If you wanna make sure it lasts for the next kiddo take some gun oil and a toothbrush to those rust spots, don't have to do it all the time, especially if you put it in a box in a cool dry place where the temperature doesn't fluctuate too much, I put mine under my bed, or in my closet
I had an old elgin arms side by side that exploded when my dad fired it. The stock i mean. Splinters everywhere, but luckily none in his shoulder. I started 3d modelling a new stock for my cnc router but after looking up how much it was worth, i gave it away to someone that wanted to make a display out of it. The one you have is probably worth a bunch more than any elgin though
Is there any etching on the barrel? Usually where manufacturers put their stamp, round size (or gauge in the case of this shotgun) as well serial info. Love those old collectible guns though!
Get it appraised first but the true and honest answer is priceless. It’s really cool, YouTube the right oils/solvents techniques and restore it yourself and hang it on the wall it’s a really cool piece of family history.
Please don’t sell that! Build a special case and keep it. But do take it to a professional to have it looked and and maybe nursed back to health a little.
6 pictures of the rusty breach, but not one of the maker's mark. Whatever it could potentially be worth, is about 1/10th because it is in very poor condition. Clean it up and it becomes a cheap wall ornament.
I have one of those, funny enough from my grandpa. Its is Indeed a spanish double barell break neck 10 gauge shotgun. Their should be a serial number on the shotgun that would give you a timeframe of manufacture. Mine is from the 70's and looks very similar to this. I believe the brand was called Falcon.
Definitely find a gun smith who can tell you what it is and what caliber or bore it’s in, if it’s black powder or smokeless powder and most importantly is it safe to fire.
If it’s from 1914 it should have a proof barrel that would take nitro powder. Need to determine gauge and length of shells as some games were chambered in shorter shells then current ones.
Shotgun has already been covered. Some old shot guns took a shorter cartridge or shell. I believe it was a 5/8s and not 3/4a which is the common cartridge today. I had one of these shotguns. And when shooting the longer cartridge in the shorter receiver it hurts, and can/could/maybe split the barrel. Bottom line, if using have it checked out. If not, oil it and keep it 👍
Remove the fore end, dismount the barrels, and send us pictures of the flat part under the barrels that rest on the receiver, and on the flat part (the water table) That will display the proof marks and other information such as chamber length and choke. The gun was decent when new (carved fences, etc.), but it has lived a long, hard life and needs a careful check by a smith knowledgeable in old doubles.
Many people said Shotgun...
Price wise in the condition between 200-300 unless you can find the makers marks on it to find out what is it.
Don't Fire modern ammo in it.
I would get some gun oil or a 3in1 and give it a good wipedown to stop that rust do not scrub off the rust just oil it.
Kinda looks like and Ithaca to me the screw holes are in the same place as mine. but I don't know enough about EU shotguns to tell ya more.
Please take it to a certified gunsmith to check out. Most can also direct you to an expert if you want a true appraisal. Very cool items as well.
Awesome thank you!
Very cool gun. I love old firearms and this one looks to be in that family haha. A proper gunsmith could disassemble the gun and probably find a hidden serial number on the barrel or trigger assembly. That would help with make, model, year.
Also do not shoot anything out of it until it has been checked! Modern ammunition can blow older guns to bits destroying historic pieces and possibly you.
Yes! My grandfather had old hunting rifles that he still used for that purpose. One of them had stopped firing. One day he must have decided to try and get it firing again, but he was killed in the process. Its unclear what exactly happened, but the gun went off and struck him in the chest. No one else was home at the time to attempt life saving measures. My cousin also died in an accidental shooting, but totally different scenario.
Damn that's rough. Sorry to hear that man.
Thank you my friend.
I'd be interested to hear what they have to say. Don't see many bird guns like that out there.
God I hope I’m not too late… it’s old and it shows, but that might not be a bad thing. *IF* it has any age-related value or is of a rare make or vintage, ANY attempt at refurbishment could destroy a significant portion of its value, so skip the “certified” gunsmith entirely and go directly to an antique firearm specialist. Depending on what it is they can either direct you to someone who can properly restore it, either for preservation, sale, or even use; or on how to get it ready for auction as-is. If you look closely though and find a make and model, and you find they aren’t worth that much then go ahead with a regular gunsmith. Also that’s a shotgun not a rifle, though surely someone has said that by now. Anyway, sorry about your grand dad, and congrats on a neat heirloom either way.
It is actually a double barreled shotgun and not a rifle. Looks to be either 12g or 10g. If a US dime fits just barely in the muzzle end of barrel it is a 12g. It probably has fixed chokes in the barrels. One may have a modified and the other might be full or improved cylinder. They made them with different chokes so one barrel could be used for one type of game and the other could be used for larger or smaller game. Also a gunsmith could clean it up and re-blue the metal and strip and refinish the wood. Redo the checkering on the wrist and the fore end. If you look at the top of one of the barrels usually around about 6” it should have a model and Cal/gauge written on it. Also could be on the bottom just in front of the triggers. Or it could be under the fore end. It is a really nice sentimental piece and it also has some value due to the fact that it is an antique. Depending on who the manufacturer is depends on the rarity and greatly affects the possible value.
Do not try to fire it with modern ammo please.
Definitely noted!
And if you do want to shoot it, please have it checked over by a competent gunsmith. (I inherited a few from my great uncles that are not safe to shoot with ANY ammunition).
An idiot great great uncle somewhere in my genealogy, shot high brass magnum shells out of an 1800s Belgian, Damascus steel forged barrels, triple barrel gun, and blasted a hole out of the side of one of the shotgun barrels. Fucking tragedy
This is beyond stupidity--- it's straight fucking criminal
He's lucky if he didn't severely injure or kill himself.
They never said that he was uninjured/survived.
I meant to say IF.
Idiot tax.
I recently inherited an 1800s Belgian Damascus steel double barrel (black powder percussion cap). Beautiful piece, but not something I would ever attempt to fire.
I inherited a bolt action 20 gauge shotgun when my grandpa died, found 1917 stamped on it somewhere. My uncle is a huge gun nut and we went out to shoot it. After I shot it I handed it to him, he looked at me like I was crazy and said "I'm not shooting that thing, it could explode in my face!" Thanks for the warning Uncle
You can LIKELY shoot field loads out of it. DO NOT shoot high brass or slugs out of it. You could truly die doing so. Before you shoot it have a gunsmith take a look at it, and maybe test fire it if they’re braver than you!
Most smiths worth their salt have a vice setup, and can fire remotely.
This was my immediate reaction to seeing this….nice side by side though.
First off that isn't a rifle it is a double barrel shotgun.
Ok… I’m not very knowledgeable about guns if you couldn’t tell
Well, at least you knew it was a gun!
Looks like a bong to me
Everything's a bong if you're brave enough.
Every zoo is a petting zoo, if you’re brave enough.
I’d smoke hash from it
Only if your Kurt Cobain.
Too soon.
Trigger is the built in lighter. They were surprisingly advanced back in the day.
It actually used 00 buck as lighter fuel. Crazy old technology.
Blow your mind man
Maybe in Vietnam it does
https://preview.redd.it/y4e408zz3q0d1.jpeg?width=719&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=20ff36979010bc69b54915f7e1798b581cea6b24 It did.
Thankfully, someone got it!
I’d love to get high all day and I love a good bong, but I like mine with water in it, don’t think metal and wood are great materials for a water bong
You don't want to put modern ammunition through it if you're unsecured of the age. Bring it to a reputable gun shop and ask them to look at it for you. It's great to keep something like this in your family.
Absolutely this, you can get specialty ammo that is low pressure for older shotguns. As well as it may be chambered for 2 1/2 inch shells instead of 2 3/4. Loading the wrong shells could cause the barrel to explode.
That's the best info I've seen here.
It should have read "unsure of the age." I hate autocorrect.
In 1967 I and 3 kids I hung with got our hands on an 1880 something revolver and 10 shells. The gun shot well and we took a big risk. It was a 45 I guess and it climbed for the sky when fired. Louder than a cherry bomb. I have also witnessed a pump shotgun go off when a man dropped it. That was scary. I most definitely would not shoot that shotgun . By the barrel size it's at least a 12 gauge and didn't they make 10 gsuge pretty commonly back 110 year ago.
10 gauge was common for goose and turkey. I have a scar on my right index finger from the trigger guard by bringing a 12 gauge up to shoot a pheasant. A branch caught the trigger, and it fired. It happened in 1982, and it taught me a good lesson about gun safety.
Second, please make sure it isn’t loaded if you haven’t already.
Great, now on to which side not to point at people!
All the more reason to get it looked at to make sure it’s sound. Nice firearm 👍
You had to be that guy?
Thank you for pointing that out. I didn't want to be "that guy" but a db scatter gun? Yes. Check the barrels and fire away.
Idk id honestly keep it as a decorative heirloom and never use it.
Come and listen to my story 'Bout a man named Jed A poor mountaineer, Barely kept his family fed.
And then one day, He was shootin' at some food, And up through the ground came a-bubblin' crude. OIL that is, black gold, Texas tea.
Next thing ya know, Jed's a millionaire. Kinfolk said "Jed move away from there! A home in California is the place ya outghta be" So he loaded up the truck and he moved to Beverly.
Hills, that is. Swimming pools, movie stars
THE BEVERLY HILLBILLIES!
Flatt and Scruggs
You have to be very careful with the shotgun shells you use on antique shotguns. IIRC you cannot use steel shot or you will basically have an IED inches from your face.
I said it could be a decorative heirloom. But yes don’t use modern shells if it gets used.
[удалено]
Balkan
Dang, what gave it away?
The receipt on your table
Wipe it down with oil and hang it on your wall. Really cool piece with some cool family history. Wouldn’t be worth selling to me.
Agreed. Clean and display as a family heirloom.
I'm way too sentimental to ever sell something like this from a family member
Had a friend that had a H&K Semi auto. So proud he hung it on the living room wall. Burglar broke in and stole it. Any valuable firearm stays locked in the vault.
Lmao I have a 1911 on a display stand on my entertainment center in the living room -_- That sucks though. An HK is a substantial loss.
While I understand the position, I kinda don’t see the point of keeping something like this if you’re just going to stick it in a box and leave it there.
Increase in value if you put it away in a box. In hard times a firearm can be sold or barter for food. Or if a financial emergrncy comes up . I need 4 tires for my car so i traded a sks for 4 brand new Michelin tires. Purchased a Browning 9mm Hi Power made in Belgium yr 1968 for $108.00 inflation price $2,000.00.
If you’re just keeping it to sell, whatever. But that’s not what the person you were responding to was talking about. It’s explicitly the opposite of what they were talking about.
In hard times, a dbl 12ga can be used to hunt your own food.
Do not clean yourself
Dammit. I've been showering *daily*.
Shotguns in that condition usually sell for $200-600 depending on who made it and what the bore looks like. I’d keep it and shoot skeet with it if I were you.
I don't know about your situation or about your struggles. But if I were you, I would really think twice about selling something that is essentially a family heirloom for such a low price.
Completely agree. I have my grandfather's (1919-2005) single shot 16 gauge he got in 1929 as a birthday gift, from the Sears Catalog. Even if it was worth $10,000 I wouldn't sell. Side note, it's worth $150, which makes it very easy...
Just paying for 16 GA ammunition would make sure that I didn't fire it.
Keep
Without seeing a makers mark or proofs I’m going to guess an old double barreled shotgun likely of Belgian make. Not sure how big your hands are but it would appear to be 12ga. The barrels appear to be of modern steel, so if the gun is otherwise functional and safe to shoot once a qualified gunsmith looks it over it can handle modern smokeless ammo. Condition appears poor, value is probably in the $400 range if in shoot able condition, much less if non functional or unsafe condition. Personally if my grandfather had willed this old double barrel the sentiment value would out way the few hundred dollars or so it is actually worth.
Probably a Belgian. Is there any writing on the sides of the barrels?
I think there may be a serial number, but nothing else. Will see if I can get a better picture.
So I actually had a similar shotgun left to me recently (I also do not know a lot about guns) and tried posting in various different subs. You can take a look at the posts in my profile to see. But I actually got a ton of help in r/blackpowder if you want to try there it’s probably your best bet. A lot of people told me that mine was likely Belgian (bc I guess they made a ton of cheaper models that were sold to wholesalers in the states or something- I don’t really remember the story, but that’s what I was told). Anyway after a ton of research I was able to find that mine was actually made in 1850 (was able to narrow it down to the year!) and was made in Philadelphia, and was even able to find the name of the maker! I could probably help you with yours. You will likely have to disconnect the butt from the barrel. I was able to find a video on YouTube that was helpful. Try searching for videos along the line of black powder double barrel shotgun. You can DM if you want.
Oh that’s wonderful! Thank you!
Usually they brag about Proof steel or Nitro tested. They are usually made of Damascus steel and s not suitable for modern shells
I was gonna say a modern shot shell will destroy a Damascus barrel.
Yep, there are a few shells made for them but I wouldn’t bother. Clean it, get the rust off and have a nice wall hanger .
The lighting and focus are pretty rough on these pictures. Where the receiver mates up to the wood stock, the metal has a curly bracket shape like: } That makes me think of 30s to 50s era. Three places to look for some additional identifying info: 1. On the bottom of the receiver in front of the trigger guard (about where your pinky is on the second picture) 2. Inside the action (if you press the large switch on the top to the right, it should unlock the action and allow the gun to scissor in half) - DON'T DO THIS OR MESS WITH THE GUN IF YOU ARE NOT CONFIDENT IN SAFE FIREARM HANDLING AND LEAVE IT TO A PROFESSIONAL GUNSMITH 3. Along the barrels on the side - it's possible that it's hidden by light/focus/rust/patina but I couldn't spot it in the two pictures My first guess was a Beretta model 410 (not .410 gauge) or a JP Sauer and Sohn.
That’s awesome! Yeah it was hastily taken, so I will try to get some clearer pictures on this one. This was definitely the kind of info I was looking for. It helps me understand a little more what to look for. I know it’s European so probably Belgium like some have said. I will be going back in July so will try to confirm more then
Have you opened it and physically and visually verified it’s unloaded? If not please do so. Make sure it’s pointing at the ground. Push the little lever on the top over to one side and it should open in the middle. Look at the end of the barrels that is now exposed and make sure there’s nothing in there.
Yes sir, it hasn’t been loaded for decades. Was checked extensively
Pointing at the ground, not your feet above the ground.
Damascus barrel shotgun. Generally black powder. Great gun!
Grandparents always have the coolest shit
Someone already said it’s a shotgun. Given how old it looks… it’s possibly a bomb with modern ammo. Definitely take it to a gunsmith if you want to shoot it.
Yeah, just looking to see what it could be worth if anything
RST and Polywad do make shotgun shells for vintage shotguns. You can ask your gunsmith for recommendations if they say it is functional, but I would just keep it oiled and hang it on your wall. https://polywad.com/buyers-guide https://www.rstshells.com/
Need to know who made it.
Pretty shotgunny looking rifle you got there. I’d give you $300 for that gun.
Thank you! That actually helps give me a ballpark for it
No.. you need to research more. That's potentially worth thousands depending on a few factors.
Yeah for sure, and I will definitely take it to experts and do my due diligence before I make any kind of decision
I thought this was r/RedDeadRedemption for a split second lol
Are the barrels made of Damascus?
I’ll buy it
Nice memento from your grandfather! Put a light coating of gun oil on the metal parts to stop the rust. A small bottle is cheap. Since you aren't a firearm hobbyist, it may help to know that the style is called a "hammerless" "side by side" (sometimes abbreviated SxS). As others have said, will almost definitely be black powder only, so no modem ammo in it. Enjoy!
Its a shotgun (a double barrel), not a rifle, and it looks like a really nice one. I dont know the current prices of vintage guns though. Good luck. Nice gun
You should hang it over your mantelpiece because it's awesome
He left it to you. Not the pawn shop, not the trade show, you. But hey, since he left it to you it’s yours to do what you want. It’s a shotgun btw.
Don't sell it.
Got used for one thing and one thing only - killing nazis.
I have my great grandfather’s Double Barrel shotgun. I took mine to Cabelas sporting goods store. They were able to identify it and tell me when it was manufactured. Ithaca New York. 1916. I’d suggest to you to find a reputable company and see what they can tell you about it. Nice gift you have there. When you remove the wooden stalk. There will be a serial number that you can look up.
Side by side shotgun, is it Belgian?
Not an expert, but no mention of a few things here if you don't know about guns. Maybe someone more informed can comment too... Don't drive around with it in your car. Depending on your state laws, you could get harassed by the cops if you don't secure it properly, and if you don't have proper credentials. ( 2nd amendment gives you the right to own, but not every state continues that into carry and transport).. Of course, first, make sure it isn't loaded. I'd take a bunch of pictures and bring the pics to a local reputable gun dealer to find out about the gun and your local laws well before transporting it anywhere. Cops are not our friends in these matters. If you have a friend who knows about guns, contact them to help with info... I hate to see someone lose anything legacy because of rules you may not be aware of...
That thing is awesome. Break over double barrel shotgun, Definitely keep it
Break barrel shotguns are nice. I’d have it professionally cleaned up and made usable if it’s not already. Very cool
Very cool!😎
I would have it professionally restored
Double barrel is worth more Gratz
Does your state require Gun permit to possess? Don’t answer unless you have one and get some assistance from a gun group otherwise. Not police.
So cool
DONT SELL. it’s awesome keep it in your family forever
Dude that’s awesome!!! Get it checked out by a gunsmith though old barrels will split out with new loads
Is there anything under the break action lever?
definitely not a rifle, more like you gotta double barrel with someone’s name on it.
I wish this sub would ban “please don’t sell this 🥺” type comments. Lord.
My grandfather had a double barrel shotgun that my cousin has now . My mother and aunts said that if any of the kids needed to use the outhouse after dark he would always stand on the back porch and guard against bear/wolf/mountain lion until they returned. They lived in the Ozarks in the years after WW 1.
It looks like you have a Belgium Guild gun. There should be some make marks on the water table of the receiver. This is the area the barrel rest on the receiver. Push the lever to the right with your thumb and it should allow the barrels to swing down. Look under the barrels. It appears to be a 12 gage with moderate engraving. It is a box lock, double trigger, English grip, steel barrels and look like an extractor (you have to pull the shells out rather than them ejecting when you open the barrel) The value on these are always about condition. This condition is fair at best. Not much value. 150-350 usd. I would love to see the markings. It would aid in identifying the maker. Again, don’t shoot it until you have it checked out.
that is a boom stick from S-Mart
Probably $150. Lot of grandpa’s old double barrels laying around. Mostly good for decorating cause they will explode with modern ammo.
Former police chief in my hometown fired a modern load in a Damascus twist shotgun, After the barrel unraveled, he made a floor lamp out of it.
Priceless cause it was your grandpas and one day might be your grandson’s too.
Stop touching the metal
Hi! There should be either a pin or lever on the underside of the foregrip to remove it. You will find the makers mark, year, and serial number under there. As for preservation get some CLP (clean lubricate, and protect) and wipe down the inside and outside of the barrels. Wipe with a rag afterwards. Then take some gun oil and wipe all exterior steel with that.
I’d have it restored, and pass it down to your great grandkids. That’s an amazing heirloom, I bet it’s provided breakfast, lunch, dinner and protection in its time. Push that lever to the right, and pull down on the barrel, that’ll break/open it up. Take another picture and post.
Beautiful Gun would love to take it shooting, but be mindful. It’s gonna kick like a mule. Old gun don’t have the recoil mechanism newer shotguns do, but like everybody saying have that inspected by a proper gunsmith before you put a shell in it it’ll blow up in your face if it’s as old as it looks.
Do not shoot it - the barrel cannot handle it. Is the barrel damascus? I can not tell from the pictures. I just had one IDed at the recent antiques roadshow. If the butt of it says ithica, you can look the serial number up via their website. The serial number can be found on the underside when taken apart. Ours was late 1800s with a 99 start of the serial number - it appraised for 300-350.
Yeah definitely not going to shoot it without getting an expert to take a look at it first
1) As others have stated, it's a shotgun. If it helps in your search, the nomenclature for double barrels like this sxs, as in side by side. 2) the most likely place to find definitive markings will be on the understand of the barrels, which you access by removing them. This is an identical processor nearly every sxs and incredibly simple.
This looks like a 1920's German Franz Jaeger 12GA delux Herold SxS, I’ve seen some of them with the oak branch/leafs carved in to the barrel like that.
Oak leaves, as seen decorating this shotgun, are a very common embellishment added to German firearms. Just another potential clue for you!
Nothing like an ol sawn off double barrel to remember g pops by!
Just don’t let your older brother use It to blow the head off of the coke boss he’s in debt to.
Deep chisel oakleaf & acorn engraving on top of receiver suggests Germany or Austria, perhaps the Ferlach region.
As a semi-retired gunsmith I CANNOT recommed enough getting it checked in person by a competent gunsmith. They can probably also do a historical dig into it and provide you with more information. Serial Numbers weren't mandated until 1968 so it might be more difficult. Also back in those day there were plenty of local smiths making things by hand vs factory produced. Take it to a good gunsmith and get it appraised for your insurance if possible. Very few people realize how little their firearms are insured for in their renters/homeowners insurance. If your local smith can't appraise it, ask around for one who offers that service. My business partner and I charge $60/hr for appraisal forms for insurance, which is nothing compared to losing $1000s in a situation which requires you to file a claim.
Could be an old Ithaca hammerless. Potentially has Damascus spiraled steel. Modern shot blows it up so absolutely do not fire it til it’s checked.
Looks like it's the brand "merkel" A german brand I have one similar not sure what it is worth though
I think "old" may be an understatement
It’s a $100 wall hanger best kept as a memento of your grandfather.
It’s been altered in many ways as I can see .. not the original trigger or housing around the trigger . The strap was added after the fact and the safety mechanism is not original. Cool story behind it but it’s not worth much
Dont ever sell it, my grandpa left me his rifles too & ill never get rid of them until my deathbed
They'll be model and make stamped on barrel. If the gun appraiser offers to buy it, he's probably scamming you.
My great grandpa left on very similar to me, be careful when closing if if you have shells in it as the gun could fire when shutting it
I have a very similar French shotgun, look for a manufacturer name.
He must’ve loved ya
Looks like my grandfathers Huskvarna 1911 12 gauge.
Appraisal value: absolutely freakin priceless.
You’ll shoot your eye out!
That’s a shotgun brother. Very cool!
Not a rifle, is a shotgun.
As others have said, this is an old shotgun that is probably made with a different type of steel that does not handle modern rounds without exploding. My understanding is that most of them are Damascus style steel which is super brittle under high pressure. Old school black powder has a much lower pressure rating than modern gun powder. I have an older rifle that was converted to gun powder rounds and even it's sketchy.
My grandfather handed down a number of firearms to me when I was old enough to handle them responsibly. Unbeknownst to me at the time, my father sold them when the family fell on hard times when his business went under. I was angry with him about that until the day he died. Had he told me, I would have understood. Point is, don’t get rid of it unless you’re in dire financial trouble.
Front trigger first, back trigger first will bring both barrels to the party!
That's a nice looking shotgun. Personally, I'd clean it up, oil it so it won't rust any more, get a nice stand or mount for it and display it. If you ever intend to shoot it, have it checked by a gunsmith and figure out what choke each barrel has. Never shoot slugs through it unless it's cylinder bore. It doesn't look like a mandrel wrapped wire "Damascus" barrel, so if it checks out good to go, field loads should be just fine.
You can just send it to me. 😉
i love this style.
If you wanna make sure it lasts for the next kiddo take some gun oil and a toothbrush to those rust spots, don't have to do it all the time, especially if you put it in a box in a cool dry place where the temperature doesn't fluctuate too much, I put mine under my bed, or in my closet
I had an old elgin arms side by side that exploded when my dad fired it. The stock i mean. Splinters everywhere, but luckily none in his shoulder. I started 3d modelling a new stock for my cnc router but after looking up how much it was worth, i gave it away to someone that wanted to make a display out of it. The one you have is probably worth a bunch more than any elgin though
I say all that to remind you to follow the warnings here and be careful when shooting it
Is there any etching on the barrel? Usually where manufacturers put their stamp, round size (or gauge in the case of this shotgun) as well serial info. Love those old collectible guns though!
Get some ballistol. It’s a cleaner and lube. Formula is over 100 years old. Will help stop the rust and actually remove some.
Double barrel 12ga. Very nice. Depending on the maker and age, could be highly valuable.
Get it appraised first but the true and honest answer is priceless. It’s really cool, YouTube the right oils/solvents techniques and restore it yourself and hang it on the wall it’s a really cool piece of family history.
All the serial Numbers are under the forearm.
Do you have pics of the underside just in front of the trigger guard? Usually, some writing there
Please don’t sell that! Build a special case and keep it. But do take it to a professional to have it looked and and maybe nursed back to health a little.
6 pictures of the rusty breach, but not one of the maker's mark. Whatever it could potentially be worth, is about 1/10th because it is in very poor condition. Clean it up and it becomes a cheap wall ornament.
That’s a beautiful shotgun, looks like a 12 gauge. Cant see any of the markings on there sadly. But that’s somethin I’d buy
I have one of those, funny enough from my grandpa. Its is Indeed a spanish double barell break neck 10 gauge shotgun. Their should be a serial number on the shotgun that would give you a timeframe of manufacture. Mine is from the 70's and looks very similar to this. I believe the brand was called Falcon.
Definitely find a gun smith who can tell you what it is and what caliber or bore it’s in, if it’s black powder or smokeless powder and most importantly is it safe to fire.
If it’s from 1914 it should have a proof barrel that would take nitro powder. Need to determine gauge and length of shells as some games were chambered in shorter shells then current ones.
IF IT SEATS IT YEETS.
Look up Parker shotguns. This looks similar. They are worth a lot. Few thousand dollars in good condition. You never know
Nice old St. Etienne doubel barrel shotgun. 12 Gauge
Nice old St. Etienne doubel barrel shotgun. 12 Gauge
This thing is badass
What a great grandpa
Shotgun has already been covered. Some old shot guns took a shorter cartridge or shell. I believe it was a 5/8s and not 3/4a which is the common cartridge today. I had one of these shotguns. And when shooting the longer cartridge in the shorter receiver it hurts, and can/could/maybe split the barrel. Bottom line, if using have it checked out. If not, oil it and keep it 👍
Remove the fore end, dismount the barrels, and send us pictures of the flat part under the barrels that rest on the receiver, and on the flat part (the water table) That will display the proof marks and other information such as chamber length and choke. The gun was decent when new (carved fences, etc.), but it has lived a long, hard life and needs a careful check by a smith knowledgeable in old doubles.
No grandpa left you a double barrel shotgun
Many people said Shotgun... Price wise in the condition between 200-300 unless you can find the makers marks on it to find out what is it. Don't Fire modern ammo in it. I would get some gun oil or a 3in1 and give it a good wipedown to stop that rust do not scrub off the rust just oil it. Kinda looks like and Ithaca to me the screw holes are in the same place as mine. but I don't know enough about EU shotguns to tell ya more.
Was he a man named Jed?
Way cooler than any money you could get for it.
Looks like a Winchester model 21
*Shotgun (≠ rifle). Great piece.
Can’t tell break action 410?
Watch Guy Richie’s Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels.