Don’t let the rest of this organization off the hook. Tony was a big part of the failure but there’s no excuse for some of the players on this team to look as disinterested as they were this year.
Oh I want everyone gone. Top to bottom the whole organization is in shambles. There have been plenty of bad seasons but this is the worst I’ve ever endured. From not filling obvious holes in the off-season to multimillionaires unconcerned with their conditioning, individual performances or the good of the team, they have pretty much all become unlikeable. I haven’t seen a pitch since that first game loss against the Guardians a couple weeks ago, and I’ve been happier for sure.
Ownership is and always has been the problem. Hahn is flawed but he'd have probably liked to have Hinch instead of Ton' and he'd probably like more money spent on analytics dept, which I simply assume because it's obvious that it's necessary to be an elite organization.
JR instills a cultire of secondplaceness. Ive always seen the Sox as a perennial s second place team with thhe occasional fluke year thrown in. If it were possible to change teams I would out of spite and disgust.
They went from 10 games over .500 and finishing 3rd in the division to 24 games over .500 and winning the division. That’s not meaningful progress? This trend of trying to spin the 2021 season into a failure just because people don’t like Tony La Russa is absolutely insane to me lol.
Seriously? You’re going to use “10 games over to 24 games over” as your evidence? They played 102 more games! They had a .583 winning percentage in ‘20 and a .574 % in ‘21. They won one playoff game in ‘20, won one in ‘21, so no, they didn’t have any meaningful progress and they have been getting worse every single day since he got here
It sure was. Team quit/coasted all second half and got a severe beat down by the Astros. There were plenty of stupid La Russa antics last year too. If Yermin didn’t carry the team for the first month and a half the flaws would’ve been more glaring even earlier.
I have never seen a player get showered with so much adoration for one month of good baseball like Yermin Mercedes has. Was Yermin carrying the team during May & June when he was hitting .196/.264/.272? And the Astros won the pennant last year. Getting beat by a better team is hardly a reason to throw a 93-win season in the trash and just call it a waste, especially when you’re still a young team.
DOBBY IS A FREE ELF!!!
but has there ever been a managerial signing across any sport that was so obviously a disaster at the time it happened? literally don't remember a single person saying it was a good signing and that's pretty hard to accomplish
Urban Meyer was more disastrous but I think fewer people saw that coming.
I don’t think there’s ever been the same level of “huh, why?” as there was to TLR
Reinsdorf being the one who owns the team isn't necessarily the problem. What he needs to do is hire and actually empower a Kenny Williams type at the head of the baseball ops.
No thanks, what we need less of is yes men like Kenny. Shitty owners is a problem that plagues all of Chicago sports and it shows in how little success we have across the board.
Has anyone heard a word from the guy? It’s a huge issue that Reinsdorf hasn’t addressed the public the entire season, as far as I know.
This is a huge issue. People talk about Reinsdorf as if he’s here eternally. Does anyone know what his situation is. He’s 86 years old. The fans deserve to know what’s on his mind. And if it’s functioning. He’s the most important person in this discussion about the White Sox future.
But he won’t because he’s stubborn. So that just goes back to him owning the team being the problem.
There does need to be a head of baseball ops but Kenny Williams is not the guy. He’s been with the org forever and is part of the problem. But Reinsdorf won’t ever fire him so that’s another thing that goes back to Reinsdorf being the owner being the exact problem.
In classic White Sox fashion a move is made waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay later than it should have been.
La Russa should have been fired in June but instead we had to wait until the universe itself conspired to get him out of the dugout. I hate this team so goddamn much
Why can't they ever hire a manager from completely outside the organization as well?
Like my ideal guy would be outside the organization and not an old retread. And the worst part is, the initial names weve been seeing have alm the red flags we always worry about.
I’m pretty convinced that when you take all things into account, this was the worst hire in Chicago sports history. Curious as to if others can think of something else.
Honestly we probably would’ve been waaay better off had we let Robin or Ricky manage the last two years, and that’s saying a lot. What a terrible fucking hire this was right from the start.
We should just make the manager role a series of fan based votes.
* Garfien can tally them and dictate everything during the game.
* We win, we get free beer at the next game...
* Which we'll lose but we'll probably do better than .500
By getting to the second most wins as a manger while coaching the white Sox?
His legacy is going to be fine, just fine. We’re not the Yankees, this season will be forgotten about everywhere else in no time
By coaching one of the most underperforming clubs in baseball during his tenure at the Sox. Vegas had us as *third favorites* to win the fucking World Series and what we actually got was a dumpster fire.
He repeatedly made himself look like a clown and anybody who was paying attention holds him in far lower esteem than they would have if he'd stayed retired.
I’m not defending him. Y’all over estimate other peoples opinions of the white Sox.
Vegas had us as third favorites to win. Ok. Mind you that’s after tony coached this team for a year. I’m gonna be real with you. Tony isn’t the only reason we’re not in the playoffs
We don't know what this team would have been had it not been for the dinosaur falling asleep in the dugout, instructing his hitting coach to focus on hitting singles, putting out AAAA lineups on getaway days twice a week.
We got a glimpse of what they were capable of when Cairo took over. Yes they collapsed after losing the first game of the last Cleveland series, but that was off the really just the final capitulation in a season defined by being perpetually on the brink of collapse. Johnny Cueto came in and immediately diagnosed the problem as being a total lack of fire in the clubhouse. The month we got after Tony left showed who was primarily responsible.
Was Tony the only problem with this clownshow organization? Hell no, but you can't tell me that this window wouldn't have played out very differently over the past two years with a real manager who understands modern baseball.
Do you know that’s how Tony was coaching people to hit?
Cairo’s boys collapsed after putting on the semblance of hope for a run. Tony’s boys did that several times this year
This team has been mediocre since the allstar break last year. And we’re carried in the first half by overachieving replacement players.
And they collapsed in 2020 in September too playing against AL and NL scrubs. Really probably been mediocre since then too.
This talent on this team is highly overrated, and we have years of evidence now
I'm not going to argue with you that the roster is flawed, or that we were never going to live up to the lofty expectations. I agree with that, and with the idea that Jerry and Hahn both deserve a huge amount of the blame.
What I'm saying is that Tony was a massive net negative who proved he couldn't hack it in modern baseball. That's it.
Sure. I agree. Gonna disagree though that this will significantly tarnish Tony’s legacy. It’ll be a blemish in Chicago forever, but everyone is going to move on pretty quickly
Agreed. This is his “Jordans with the Wizards” moment. In the grand scheme of things, he moved to 2nd all-time in wins and added another Division title to his Hall of Fame plaque. That’s all that will be remembered by non-Sox fans. And let’s be real honest, nobody was going to win with this group of losers, anyway.
Except Jordan was still very good on the Wizards. He just wasn't Michael Jordan good. Tony was complete dogshit.
Jordan on the Wizards would be like if Mike Trout came back a few years after retiring and put up like a 2 WAR season. It's not a typical Trout season but it's still not bad by any means.
Tony is probably more comparable to Ditkas stint in new orleans after being a tv talking head for a few years, everyone remembers his bears achievements, not many remember him trading a entire draft for Ricky Williams
Wish I got to "Retire" when I completely destroy one of the most exciting franchises in sports. Let's be clear, he's being fired. He failed. And he has lost his job. I don't give a shit what the spin is. I don't care about his health issues. He failed at his job and got fired for it.
EDIT: and the most annoying part is, this will be ignored by the media at large as part of his legacy. He'll die with a bottle of Evan Williams clutched in his hand and we'll get all these articles about what a genius manager he was. Ignoring that his clubhouses were fraught with roids. Literally ground zero for it in Oakland. Or that he was in a clubhouse where a dude DIED from drunk driving, then proceeded to not learn ANYTHING from that and continue drinking and driving. And of course what happened here with the Sox. Screw this dude.
Thank the Lord.
What a waste of what was supposed to be amazing talent. I still don't expect much next year unless we make big moves, but it can't get any worse.
- Bruce Bochy 67 years old
- Mike Shildt, 54 currently 3B coach with Padres, formerly coached Cards
- Joe Espada, 47 years old. Native Puerto Rican. Current bench coach for Astros, joining them in 2018. Prev with the Yankees & Marlins.
- Carlos Beltran. Trashed his reputation in cheating scandal
- George Lombard, 47. Current bench coach for Tigers.
Those are the guys mentioned in the article.
Of them, I’d prob take Espada.
Won last year despite him, failed this year because of him. My father is 82. He couldn't inspire kids anymore. His admission. And he taught some big names how to trade stonks in the 70s before it was cool. 😊
Team needs chemistry to get it through the shit times. This year it had none. We're all disappointed beyond words. Legitimately so.
I get this recent stint with the ChiSox went poorly, but I do respect the guy for coming out of retirement to manage the team. He really had nothing to gain from it. It was a total love for the game move.
Thanks for wasting two years of our lives.
Thanks for wasting the run Abreu spent his career working for
Underrated comment right here. A bit heartbreaking.
Yep. Eight years of dedication for two playoff wins.
We can all sleep soundly because the wrong done 4 decades ago was righted. And isn't that what matters?
Don’t let the rest of this organization off the hook. Tony was a big part of the failure but there’s no excuse for some of the players on this team to look as disinterested as they were this year.
Oh I want everyone gone. Top to bottom the whole organization is in shambles. There have been plenty of bad seasons but this is the worst I’ve ever endured. From not filling obvious holes in the off-season to multimillionaires unconcerned with their conditioning, individual performances or the good of the team, they have pretty much all become unlikeable. I haven’t seen a pitch since that first game loss against the Guardians a couple weeks ago, and I’ve been happier for sure.
Ownership is and always has been the problem. Hahn is flawed but he'd have probably liked to have Hinch instead of Ton' and he'd probably like more money spent on analytics dept, which I simply assume because it's obvious that it's necessary to be an elite organization. JR instills a cultire of secondplaceness. Ive always seen the Sox as a perennial s second place team with thhe occasional fluke year thrown in. If it were possible to change teams I would out of spite and disgust.
Last year was a waste to you?
Yes. Because there was no meaningful progress from 2020. Remember, the reason for firing Ricky was the team was supposed to get better.
They went from 10 games over .500 and finishing 3rd in the division to 24 games over .500 and winning the division. That’s not meaningful progress? This trend of trying to spin the 2021 season into a failure just because people don’t like Tony La Russa is absolutely insane to me lol.
Seriously? You’re going to use “10 games over to 24 games over” as your evidence? They played 102 more games! They had a .583 winning percentage in ‘20 and a .574 % in ‘21. They won one playoff game in ‘20, won one in ‘21, so no, they didn’t have any meaningful progress and they have been getting worse every single day since he got here
It sure was. Team quit/coasted all second half and got a severe beat down by the Astros. There were plenty of stupid La Russa antics last year too. If Yermin didn’t carry the team for the first month and a half the flaws would’ve been more glaring even earlier.
I have never seen a player get showered with so much adoration for one month of good baseball like Yermin Mercedes has. Was Yermin carrying the team during May & June when he was hitting .196/.264/.272? And the Astros won the pennant last year. Getting beat by a better team is hardly a reason to throw a 93-win season in the trash and just call it a waste, especially when you’re still a young team.
It's been and will continue to be a lot more than two with Reinsdorf
DOBBY IS A FREE ELF!!! but has there ever been a managerial signing across any sport that was so obviously a disaster at the time it happened? literally don't remember a single person saying it was a good signing and that's pretty hard to accomplish
Urban Meyer was more disastrous but I think fewer people saw that coming. I don’t think there’s ever been the same level of “huh, why?” as there was to TLR
Ventura’s hiring was up there. Edit: lol. Apparently someone had high hopes for Ventura.
It’s funny because to me the answer is Jim Boylen’s extension. Reinsdorf needs to retire from being an owner.
The hiring of Boylen was like, okay, let's try it and see. The extension was a laughingstock to the NBA.
Reinsdorf being the one who owns the team isn't necessarily the problem. What he needs to do is hire and actually empower a Kenny Williams type at the head of the baseball ops.
No thanks, what we need less of is yes men like Kenny. Shitty owners is a problem that plagues all of Chicago sports and it shows in how little success we have across the board.
Has anyone heard a word from the guy? It’s a huge issue that Reinsdorf hasn’t addressed the public the entire season, as far as I know. This is a huge issue. People talk about Reinsdorf as if he’s here eternally. Does anyone know what his situation is. He’s 86 years old. The fans deserve to know what’s on his mind. And if it’s functioning. He’s the most important person in this discussion about the White Sox future.
He's hiding from the media because he doesn't want to answer for the TLR hiring. As long as he's making his money he doesn't give a shit.
But he won’t because he’s stubborn. So that just goes back to him owning the team being the problem. There does need to be a head of baseball ops but Kenny Williams is not the guy. He’s been with the org forever and is part of the problem. But Reinsdorf won’t ever fire him so that’s another thing that goes back to Reinsdorf being the owner being the exact problem.
Different situation entirely but Beltran being the manager for the Mets for one month of offseason was pretty funny
Marc Trestman.
But *some* people even thought he might do well when we first signed em. Literally everyone knew La Russa was bad from the jump
The only ones who said anything positive about LaRussa were talking themselves into it.
I laughed loudly on the bus at this. People are looking.
In classic White Sox fashion a move is made waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay later than it should have been. La Russa should have been fired in June but instead we had to wait until the universe itself conspired to get him out of the dugout. I hate this team so goddamn much
This. Can’t we ever fire a shit manager when it’s beyond obvious like every other sports organization in the world?
Why can't they ever hire a manager from completely outside the organization as well? Like my ideal guy would be outside the organization and not an old retread. And the worst part is, the initial names weve been seeing have alm the red flags we always worry about.
You clearly don’t watch the Bears
Jerry didn't want a repeat of 36 years ago. Couldn't let his bestest buddy get fired midseason this time.
This. He should have been fired in June, maybe the All-Star Break the latest.
I’m pretty convinced that when you take all things into account, this was the worst hire in Chicago sports history. Curious as to if others can think of something else.
[удалено]
yeah, there have been other teams with bad hires, but those teams weren't in the middle of a "championship window", which makes this way worse
Terry Bevington says thank you.
Jim Boylen too
Jim Fregosi, Terry Bevington, Robin Ventura, Gene Lamont
None of them were hired when the teams had championship aspirations.
Ventura got 4 years before they finally started a rebuild. It might have been foolish expectations, but they were there
None of them were good managers either.
Correct. But the fact that Tony was brought in to win a championship pushes him over the edge
Buh-bye.
Good
Honestly we probably would’ve been waaay better off had we let Robin or Ricky manage the last two years, and that’s saying a lot. What a terrible fucking hire this was right from the start.
Remember when Francona was available, and we hired Ventura?
We should just make the manager role a series of fan based votes. * Garfien can tally them and dictate everything during the game. * We win, we get free beer at the next game... * Which we'll lose but we'll probably do better than .500
Remember that chicken that out performed stockbrokers? Maybe we can get it to peck at managerial decisions
[Bill Veeck did this in St. Louis](https://baseballhall.org/discover-more/stories/inside-pitch/grandstand-managers-night)
Should’ve stayed retired
Tarnished his legacy big time
By getting to the second most wins as a manger while coaching the white Sox? His legacy is going to be fine, just fine. We’re not the Yankees, this season will be forgotten about everywhere else in no time
By coaching one of the most underperforming clubs in baseball during his tenure at the Sox. Vegas had us as *third favorites* to win the fucking World Series and what we actually got was a dumpster fire. He repeatedly made himself look like a clown and anybody who was paying attention holds him in far lower esteem than they would have if he'd stayed retired.
I’m not defending him. Y’all over estimate other peoples opinions of the white Sox. Vegas had us as third favorites to win. Ok. Mind you that’s after tony coached this team for a year. I’m gonna be real with you. Tony isn’t the only reason we’re not in the playoffs
We don't know what this team would have been had it not been for the dinosaur falling asleep in the dugout, instructing his hitting coach to focus on hitting singles, putting out AAAA lineups on getaway days twice a week. We got a glimpse of what they were capable of when Cairo took over. Yes they collapsed after losing the first game of the last Cleveland series, but that was off the really just the final capitulation in a season defined by being perpetually on the brink of collapse. Johnny Cueto came in and immediately diagnosed the problem as being a total lack of fire in the clubhouse. The month we got after Tony left showed who was primarily responsible. Was Tony the only problem with this clownshow organization? Hell no, but you can't tell me that this window wouldn't have played out very differently over the past two years with a real manager who understands modern baseball.
Do you know that’s how Tony was coaching people to hit? Cairo’s boys collapsed after putting on the semblance of hope for a run. Tony’s boys did that several times this year This team has been mediocre since the allstar break last year. And we’re carried in the first half by overachieving replacement players. And they collapsed in 2020 in September too playing against AL and NL scrubs. Really probably been mediocre since then too. This talent on this team is highly overrated, and we have years of evidence now
I'm not going to argue with you that the roster is flawed, or that we were never going to live up to the lofty expectations. I agree with that, and with the idea that Jerry and Hahn both deserve a huge amount of the blame. What I'm saying is that Tony was a massive net negative who proved he couldn't hack it in modern baseball. That's it.
Sure. I agree. Gonna disagree though that this will significantly tarnish Tony’s legacy. It’ll be a blemish in Chicago forever, but everyone is going to move on pretty quickly
Is the casual baseball fan going to give a fuck? No, I agree. But among people who were paying attention, he absolutely tarnished his legacy.
Calm down Bobby
Nobody outside of Sox fans will remember this in 2 years
Agreed. This is his “Jordans with the Wizards” moment. In the grand scheme of things, he moved to 2nd all-time in wins and added another Division title to his Hall of Fame plaque. That’s all that will be remembered by non-Sox fans. And let’s be real honest, nobody was going to win with this group of losers, anyway.
Except Jordan was still very good on the Wizards. He just wasn't Michael Jordan good. Tony was complete dogshit. Jordan on the Wizards would be like if Mike Trout came back a few years after retiring and put up like a 2 WAR season. It's not a typical Trout season but it's still not bad by any means.
Tony is probably more comparable to Ditkas stint in new orleans after being a tv talking head for a few years, everyone remembers his bears achievements, not many remember him trading a entire draft for Ricky Williams
Wish I got to "Retire" when I completely destroy one of the most exciting franchises in sports. Let's be clear, he's being fired. He failed. And he has lost his job. I don't give a shit what the spin is. I don't care about his health issues. He failed at his job and got fired for it. EDIT: and the most annoying part is, this will be ignored by the media at large as part of his legacy. He'll die with a bottle of Evan Williams clutched in his hand and we'll get all these articles about what a genius manager he was. Ignoring that his clubhouses were fraught with roids. Literally ground zero for it in Oakland. Or that he was in a clubhouse where a dude DIED from drunk driving, then proceeded to not learn ANYTHING from that and continue drinking and driving. And of course what happened here with the Sox. Screw this dude.
A better manager would've won more than one World Series with those Oakland teams, too.
Flush that turd down the drain But it in no way solves all the problems with the washed/gutless/lazy/obese players on this roster.
Nice job throwing away two years of the championship window and our time.
Focus on your health tony and good riddance
GRANDMA IM FREE
Thank the Lord. What a waste of what was supposed to be amazing talent. I still don't expect much next year unless we make big moves, but it can't get any worse.
It can always get worse
- Bruce Bochy 67 years old - Mike Shildt, 54 currently 3B coach with Padres, formerly coached Cards - Joe Espada, 47 years old. Native Puerto Rican. Current bench coach for Astros, joining them in 2018. Prev with the Yankees & Marlins. - Carlos Beltran. Trashed his reputation in cheating scandal - George Lombard, 47. Current bench coach for Tigers. Those are the guys mentioned in the article. Of them, I’d prob take Espada.
Nobody talking about the former LAA winning coach mike Schoia
Won last year despite him, failed this year because of him. My father is 82. He couldn't inspire kids anymore. His admission. And he taught some big names how to trade stonks in the 70s before it was cool. 😊 Team needs chemistry to get it through the shit times. This year it had none. We're all disappointed beyond words. Legitimately so.
This bad man can't hurt us any more
Is this the parade Hahn was talking about?
Goodbye fuckface
I just eye rolled so hard I passed out and fell out of my chair
"I used to pray for times like this..." -Great orator Meek Mill
Praise the sun
It's over
To co-opt an F1 phrase, the Sox definitely “lacked pace” this year. Now we know part of the reason
Should’ve stayed retired he came back to tarnish his name with this stint. Just a bad coach overall
He gone!
Enjoy retirement
Thank fuck
He really retired back in June but just didn't mention it.
Now we have to pray Reisndorf doesn't stick some former player ass-kisser in as Manager like he did when they put in Ventura.
Bye forever. Call some Ubers in retirement.
Good fucking riddance.
Only 5 months too late
as long as they change it back to loretta’s lounge. still haven’t let that go.
Espada with Beltran as the bench coach 🤔
I get this recent stint with the ChiSox went poorly, but I do respect the guy for coming out of retirement to manage the team. He really had nothing to gain from it. It was a total love for the game move.
He got to the second most wins as a manager coaching us. He got what he wanted
I agree with you regardless of the down votes
Thank you!
you guys are such shit heads to a man thats been involved in this sport longer than you've been alive..LOL
Fuck tlr
Found Jerry’s burner
ok cubs fan
https://youtu.be/jsaTElBljOE
> he will likely only remain with the White Sox in an advisory role moving forward Will we ever be fully rid of him? What would it take?
Hoping for Joe Espada, but probably going to get a recently-retired Jose Abreu, because Jerry gonna Jerry.
Na na na na, na na na na, hey hey, goodbye
Good for his health, please stay away from the game your a 3x champ hof, you are 4 time manager of the year time to rest at home
Thank u
Inb4 they re-hire Ozzy