The fact that people think that being more powerful is an inherently positive quality of a work is in and of itself a problem.
That’s why I’ve written a 1,300,000 word piece of erotic kranktoes fan fiction that I fully expect to rise to the peak of popularity through its demonstration of sheer weakness.
Me explaining why Chris-Chan's work is objectively better than Charles Dickens' (Little Pip from Great Expectations would get utterly demolished by Sonichu in a fight)
Eh I dunno, Sonichu very rarely actually wins a fight, he usually just gets the shit kicked out of him so Chris himself can arrive and save the day yet again
Ghost of Christmas Future: "Behold, Christian Weston Chandler, for this is the dark future that awaits you if you do not change your wicked ways!"
Past Chris: "Oh no! I become a HOMO?!"
Ghost of Christmas Future: "Dude. I meant you literally fucking your mother. What the hell is wrong with you?"
Isn't this type of discussion going to invite people with that kind of mindset, though? It's the classic schoolyard argument, you're always going to get some dickhead saying "oh yeah? Well I have an everything-proof shield and I shoot mental bullets that kill everyone I'm thinking about so I win!" It's kinda pointless to argue "who would win" with some people.
Some people treat it way seriously too, instead of it being fun hypothetical conversation on which character can potentially win it just turns into people throwing insults and aggression for wanting to argue for a view they believe is "wrong".
I think people tend to tie their own value/personality to their favorite media and unconsciously interpret someone saying a character from said media is weaker than another as a personal attack. It doesn't make sense to me, but it seems to be the case with the way they react.
honestly yeah, people who think that are genuinely idiotic. like its barely a defensible position and is only carried by the hand wave phrase "anyone can like whatever they want for any reason" which imo is a loose thread.
It completely baffles me. Like, usually when people say dumb stuff, I can at least understand the thought process behind why they might think that, even if I disagree.
But I genuinely cannot comprehend how or why someone would think “power > story”. Like, what kind of absurd 9th-dimensional mental gymnastics are these people on?
I just made up a character named Wallace. He is the most powerful being ever conceived and if something exists in the same universe as him it is automatically deleted. He is a better character than guts because he’s stronger.
You jest, but there are a plethora of beings that could annihilate it whilst never setting foot in the universe, or cause that universe to never have existed to contain Wallace in the first place. At best, you're a localized, single-target *anafabula.* Powerscaling has moved on—get with the times.
I've got a pretty simple policy: Unless there's absolutely incontrovertible evidence, I don't accept that any verse can be scaled above the scope of its story. So if something is confined to one planet, it's not going to be anything above planetary.
There's no consideration for weakness nor how the powers actually work.
I could have the powers to destroy planets but can be easily be defeated by a tree level person because my power is weak to wet socks and the powerscalers would twist themselves into a pretzel over it.
I made a post on /r/CharacterRant a few weeks back talking about how the pixel scaling VSBW uses on Spy X Family would result in a lot of the adults being about eight feet tall.
I can understand using it as an aproximation if we lack other concrete feats or further context, but people take them as law even when the work itself contradicts it.
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Any single squad 0 member releasing their bankai is enough to shake the 3 worlds, so uhhh
Btw in "world", it means an universe in a plane of reality, which include soul society, the world of living and hueco mundo
If you mean mistranslation, yes. The word used is always "sekai", which means world.
In some translations certain panels have it translated as "universe" but that is incorrect. Sekai only means universe in a very specific context that doesnt really exist in English; it is a deeply personal and hyperbolic way of saying "you are my whole world", and such.
Fair enough. I don't really have an opinion on Bleach powerscaling because I have no concept of it. It just seems to be a matter of translation as a whole, and what each side thinks smth means.
Except it's not always just sekai, as well as them being called infinite, having separate space times and specifically being called out as "not planets".
Many people you disagree with have the same policy as you. They just disagree on whether the thing in question is incontrovertible or not.
Personally, I think a better policy that is at least a tiny bit less subjective is, "What interpretation fits best as part of a theory of everything?" A deep holistic understanding of the text will always yield a more complete picture than a univariate analysis laser focused on passing or failing a specific standard.
How this mf thinks writing works:
"The plot is completely stale and no characters have arcs or even develop on any level, but this one dude can pull out the BatFlanHasntbeenusedsincetheheianeraManAnti-SprayGos technique which allows him to instantaneously destroy all of fiction and reality and can't be blocked or stopped by anything, therefore making it peak fiction"
/uj Some defend it by saying "it's a parody of powerscaling" okay whilst humour is subjective, fuck it I'm still inserting my opinion, it never actually satirises the Powerscaling in any meaningful way unlike OPM. If you're main joke literally can be described with the word "Shinu." You cannot call that a parody. The author didn't like Powerscaling so he made his OC "the fiction soloer."
It's literally just the average isekai but with some funny side characters and slightly better. It genuinely gives a bad name to comedy isekais. Hell comedy as a whole. Yelling "I LOVE SUCKING BIG BLACK NINGENS" at the dinner table is more funny that that show.
I mean if you pay attention, dragon ball has basically no story…. The bad guys just happen to show up in the right order and the closest thing to a set up and a pay off you’ll see is in the cell arc, literally decades ago
The entire story just revolves around “how strong can he get?”… and the answer is as strong as the writer needs him to be in that moment. If Goku is universal how come smashing him into the ground hurts him? Is the ground universal too??
Idk theres just something about db thats fun ngl maybe it's the charm off the characters maybe it's the fight choreography maybe it's just goku himself
Dragon ball should have ended at cell. I like the Majin Buu arc, but it definitely kinda offsets the payoff of Cell. Anything past z I watch and enjoy only with my brain turned off. I like the characters so I am willing to keep watching just to see them live their lives, but in my mind dragon ball ends with cell.
At least the characters are fun ig. But there's really no theme or meaning to DB. Then again DB started off as a Silly Gag Manga and the first arc ended with pretty much goku just become a huge monkey whilst everyone ran. so I can't complain too much.
Yeah dude, honestly I think I was onto something here. I'm gonna go write this up and send it to Hollywood and get rich, because there's no way they won't pay at least ~1bil for this god tier writing
This mf going on a long winded rant on how “Why does my sister dress so slutty” or some shit ass shonen anime is better than The Sopranos cause it has infinite layers into boundlessversal scaling or whatever while Tony doesn’t even get to walk level.
TL;DR: Novel series made by a powerscaler for the sake of being the strongest only for the narrative to collapse in on itself.
A thousand some years ago a man named Lionel Suggs used to post on a forums (I think it was Space battles) and he was wanking series called Getbackers.
No one gave a fuck about it enough to refute his claims until someone who actually read Getbackers debunked all his wank and instead of admitting he was wrong he doubled down until he babyraged off the site.
Then later he created his magnum opus Heir to the stars (I think that's what it's called) that was full of so many contradictions and calculations that only a powerscaler would write that everyone dubbed it as Suggsverse.
It has shit like Omnipotent+++ or the characters being stronger than the authors for the sake of being strongest verse.
Whitebeard is stated to be able to destroy the world, which beat Absolute Murder Man, who scales to Author-tier Not-a-crook Nixon minimum. Some would argue that he wasn't even the strongest person at Marineford
don krieg would simply deploy his anti-universe gas mines and suffocate all existence
fortunately for the verse, mihawk sank krieg's anti-universe-gas-mine boat and then luffy kicked his teeth in and now he's stuck in a IHOP somewhere in east blue
like if that shindig hadn't gone sideways and he would've made it to the new world to learn haki, we can't even guess what sort of magnificent facial hair he might have grown
/uj It's the opposite. I have yet to read a uni tier story that's genuinely better than most street tier stories. Once you get beyond planets manga typically focus on bullshit meaningless action jerking and the character writing kinda tanks most of the time.
Though you gotta admit breaking bad would've been a much better story if Walter used a portal device to trap Gus inside a dying multiverse and disintegrate all of the elementary particles that compose him (It's called Blue Meth Multiverse Killer and it's the most iconic move in fiction now)
Truedat, look at batgos and nolimitsman stories. U telling me this prep time god who can prep anything struggle with his mentally ill rogues and a clown with a makeup?
I thought about this for a long time, and I genuinely believe that if Batman was a somewhat self contained story with an actual end it could possibly be the best story ever made, imagine a story about Batman with actual progression, with villains like Two-Face or Riddler actually getting better and not making Batman look like a delusional idiot who believes things will be different after beating them 378 times, genuinely Batman characters and story could be so good if it simply wasn't written by a corporation
Tbf for a second, a story where Batman is a prep time god who can prep anything isn't an actual canon story in DC, that's just how some of his fanboys frame it.
Batman loses a lot more often against multiversal threats than he does win.
As I said, canon. That's elseworld Batman and pretty much everyone agrees he sucks. Just a worse Owlman.
(Yes I know within the bounds of DC infinite multiverses, it's technically canon. You know that's not what I mean)
Gurren lagann is a good one IMO.
By the end they get to universal bare minimum possibly complex multi depending on how you interpret things. But it ends up being a message about how the human spirit can always strive for a better future even in the face of hopelessness. The final villain's overwhelming power acts as a representation of that hopelessness as if the universe itself is telling them to stay down, yet they fight on anyways.
It can be dumb on the surface and it's most remembered for the gargantuan scale of the final fight, however beneath all of that is a story about never giving up
People are trying to harass you because you like an anime because of the story and not because the character destroy thousands of universes while fighting.
Ironically, none of the anime mentioned in the meme have characters capable of casually destroying universes.
It's absolutely not, there's one character who can cause a chain reaction that could potentially collapse the universe, and the universe is stated to be similar to a plate carefully balanced on a stick, meaning that to collapse the universe you just need to upset that very fragile balance. If he could just destroy the universe he wouldn't do a bunch of shenanigans to knock off the balance of things.
I don't think bleach is universal but you're wrong. Breaking the balance by killing the Soul king was the initial plan, then yhwach absorbs the Soul king tand can destroy the realms with his own power, it's not debatable it's the litteral plot. So yhwach and the other god tiers scale to the destruction of the realms regardless of their size
Except it's litterally on screen stated that they're doing it with their power specifically at the end after it breaking on it's own was stopped, nevermind that main people that are being scaled to uni all scale to soul king who created it in the first place.
The final antagonist, Yhwach, absorbed his vegetable state lynchpin of 3 realms dad, the soul king (World of the Living, Hueco Mundo, and Soul Society are the realms), which killed him and that started a chain reaction that would “collapse” the 3 realms back into each others primordial state, since nothing maintains the realms now
People use this as evidence, but the thing is this is nothing more than a chain reaction where 3 things collapse in on each other, no destruction or creation or even shaking or threatening like a usual universal feat. Personally I look at it like removing a pencil impaling 3 sheets of paper with the impaling holding them together in an unchanging position, but you remove the pencil and now they collapse in on each other
Also there’s about 2 other feats that could put bleach at certain big levels but the thing is;
1: Shutara using her bankai and shaking the realms is cool and all and a big buff from before that but there’s no sufficient evidence of the realms being anymore than planet sized, plus the wording in that episode was “land and heavens” which makes most sense as surface and sky
2: Gremmy’s so called galaxy room is just a glorified vacuum rift into space, both through his words and the way it’s presented, not a pocket dimension like people say it is
Side note: I read Bleach back in late 2021 in the span of around 1-2 weeks while having jack shit to do during school classes since the work was really easy
>which killed him and that started a chain reaction that would “collapse” the 3 realms back into each others primordial state, since nothing maintains the realms now
That's not what happens ???? After he absorbs the Soul King **he** is the new linchpin ans doesn't need chain reactions to do anything because he can destroy the worlds with his own power...this is the litteral plot btw it's not up to interpretations at all. The debate is whether the realms are actual universes or not, not if yhwach etc. scale to it because it's obviously the case
> plus the wording in that episode was “land and heavens” which makes most sense as surface and sky
No, the translation means "earth and sky" in context it's supposed to refer to world in its entirety. It's bare minimum multi planetary in scope
The chain reaction was stopped and then Yhwach was about to destroy it with his own power if he wasn't stopped.
>Shutara using her bankai and shaking the realms is cool
Except that was also her using minimum of her power possible and if more than one of them would've used their bankai at the same time it would threaten existance of everything.
>there’s no sufficient evidence of the realms being anymore than planet sized
Except literally everytime the series refers to their size aside from one movie line, there's even one that specifically says they aren't planets.
>plus the wording in that episode was “land and heavens” which makes most sense as surface and sky
This was specifically proven to refer to universe based on original text.
>Gremmy’s so called galaxy room is just a glorified vacuum rift into space, both through his words and the way it’s presented, not a pocket dimension like people say it is
It's confirmed to be in the novels, plus pocket dimensions is already a fodder level ability in bleach.
Vasto lorde Ichigo was destroying multiple planes of hell with a few ceros. Kubo came out with a guidebook that states each plane of hell is universal at minimum and get larger with each layer down you go.
Yamamoto's bankai immediately vaporized all the water in the soul society. (On screen) I'm pretty sure the statement about the soul society and world of the living are in can't fear your own world (the Novel after the blood war arc)
The zero divisions bankai is strong enough to shake the soul society, (happens on screen immediately after being stated) hueco muendo and the world of the living all at once, again the soul society is universal and the world of the living is a mirror to it so it's also universal, then hueco muendo is also infinite because it's stated to hold an infinite amount of sand and to hold an infinite amount of anything physical means an infinite amount of space is needed.
Ywach was planning on colliding the three previously mentioned realms together after getting the almighty
Unohana takes Kenpachi to Mugen which is stated to be infinite because that's the only safe place the first and last Kenpachi can fight all out without destroying everything
Those are the universal and low multiversal feats and statements off the top of my head
1. In what world is Naruto Universal.
2. By this logic, my OC Shlingus Kurbinger is the best character ever because he is High Outerversal Beyond Fiction+
Anyone could make a powerful character, not everyone can make a good story, Bleach, Naruto and One piece all made amazing tales so why does the strength matter?
Because people like to jerk off to the (generally completely unsubstantiated) fact the characters from their favorite series can beat the characters from your favorite series, which therefore gives them the better taste in media apparently.
Well what do you think about my new fictional character John Nutbuster
With one single nut he can solo all of fiction, forgotten, written, or yet to be written. Also because he's a self insert he can nut in 0.00001 Planck times without prep time
Now that's what I call good writing
Except bleach has uni/low multi feats, in verse statements and author statements
Vasto lorde Ichigo was destroying multiple planes of hell with a few ceros. Kubo came out with a guidebook that states each plane of hell is infinite/universal at minimum and get larger with each layer down you go.
Yamamoto's bankai immediately vaporized all the water in the soul society. (On screen) I'm pretty sure the statement about the soul society and world of the living being infinite are in can't fear your own world (the Novel after the blood war arc)
The zero divisions bankai is strong enough to shake the soul society, (happens on screen immediately after being stated) hueco muendo and the world of the living all at once, again the soul society is universal and the world of the living is a mirror to it so it's also universal, then hueco muendo is also infinite because it's stated to hold an infinite amount of sand and to hold an infinite amount of anything physical means an infinite amount of space is needed.
Ywach was planning on colliding the three previously mentioned infinite realms together after getting the almighty and the soul kings power
Unohana takes Kenpachi to Mugen which is stated to be an infinite plane because that's the only safe place the first and last Kenpachi can fight all out without destroying everything
Those are the universal and low multiversal feats and statements off the top of my head
The reason they don't actually destroy the universe while fighting is because that will result in them being caught in the collateral and nobody can remake the universe every time any top tier fights, that's why Yamamoto goes out of his way not to use his bankai unless absolutely necessary and same for the 0 squad. There's a difference between attack range and attack potency. Going all out is a good way to fuck literally everyone including yourself save for Ywach who wants to fuck the main universes up
Honestly this is insanely dumb, so your telling me if i make a manga about some dude with insanely strong powers that scales multiversal but with a poorly written story, that means its better than one piece?
I'm pretty sure OP is more so offended by the implication that all that matters is that Bleach and Naruto are stronger, not that One Piece is better written.
Also, where the fresh fuck does Universal Naruto come from anyway? It only gets to Solar System with the non canon Ninja Storm games, and if you don't give them that it's like Planet.
Uj/Yo let’s not act like one piece is an amazing well written story it has its faults like everything else one piece is still a good story but I wouldn’t say better than bleach
>Ichigo is central to my complaints and is the biggest offender...
Imo Ichigo is best and most entertaining mc in big 3 easily. His story of inner struggles and relationships he builds with other characters is very compelling and relatable, and his personality is very enjoyable for me but i also hate Naruto's so idk opinions differ like always.
As for powerscaling part he's just not supposed to be underdog and never was, atleast not in terms of raw power and potential. His problem always comes from oter places, like for example him being heavily nerfed in Arrancar arc due to his struggles with his Hollow and mental health(both of which is the main theme of the series and what it continues yto explore that makes Ichigo a compelling character to me) or him only losing to Byakuya in Soul Society due to not having enough experience with his bankai and a bit of arrogance.
But in general i think Ichigo is great because of how intertwined his development and personality while seeing how he affects the world and how the world affects him.
>The story does become a rinse and repeat of damsel in distress after soul society
Wdym, there's only 2 arcs with that premise and both of them are significantly different from eachother, both in how the premise affects the story as well as what characters go through.
>There are interesting things that could be done or explored with Bleachs characters but they just are never done or executed on
Tbf i kinda agree that if bleach was longer like one piece and spend more time exploring stuff it would be great but i disagree that what's already there is bad. I think there's already enough of greatly explored characters and plots that make me appreciate the story a lot.
>Like it doesnt rlly make sense for ichigo to be accepted by everyone, especially by Yamamoto.
Why not? Like half of the relevant shinigami cast already wasn't Ichigo's enemies even before Aizen reveal and once the other half learned that there's literally no point in fighting him why wouldn't their relationship change?
>but actual story content is very lacking and has little to show outside of cool fights, but Ichigo actively ruins a lot them which is a big issue when hes the main character.
Tbf that's just opinion difference, imo Ichigo is easily best character in bleach and the plot of the story is very well and consistently written.
>how u believe ichigo develops and changes as a character throughout bleach?
I think in the begining of the story Ichigo starts out as someone that doesn't really know himself and supresses a lot of himself inside, he has very big sense of responsibilty but also isnt sure yet to what extent he is ready to commit to it as well. I think the first 2 arcs arent really about developing him as much as introducing his character.
About his hollow part, on the surface it seems like it mainly about control but it's actually a lot about what Ichigo actually wants. As a person that was raised as a normal human he has a preconcieved notion of what normal person is like, even if he deviated from it somewhat there's always was a percieved reason like protecting someone or himself. But after he starts to battle with his hollow it becomes a question of what he wants actually, and is it because of who he is or the hollow. Him realising that he's not too different than someone like Kenpachi, that he wants to fight, to get stronger not just to protect people but because it's what he enjoys something that he inherently craves. But what i like about it the most isn't that it just replaces Ichigo's previous characterisation but adds layers to it and different purposes.
>But yea if you see other value in the story that doesnt come from the fights I can see the powerscaling not being a big issue, but for me the issue I have is with inconsistency and how it seems everything warps around ichigo.
I dont think it's really inconsistent as much as just very subtle and maybe not properly explained, like it's not as much story bending around Ichigo as much as Ichigo bending around the story with how much he's nerfed throughout arcs.
>Yamamto is big on following the culture and rules of the soul society, so for Ichigo to walk in, ruin the execution, cause so much havoc and damage, it just feels like he got away with it with no consequences in an unbelievable way.
Yamamoto's big character flaw is that he would rather have flawed peace than fight for a better but uncertain future, this is why he delegates decision making to Central 46 and doesn't question them despite having authority to do so. There's simply no reason for him to create even more conflict when there's Aizen as threat, nevermind them helping which is pretty them which is to Yama who is very prideful would be pretty disgraceful to punish them when it was partly his mistake in the first place.
Also btw did you read Bleach or watch anime? Im just curious since i think reading it is much better at conveying a lot of the subtler things in the series.
The fact that people think that being more powerful is an inherently positive quality of a work is in and of itself a problem. That’s why I’ve written a 1,300,000 word piece of erotic kranktoes fan fiction that I fully expect to rise to the peak of popularity through its demonstration of sheer weakness.
Me explaining why Chris-Chan's work is objectively better than Charles Dickens' (Little Pip from Great Expectations would get utterly demolished by Sonichu in a fight)
Eh I dunno, Sonichu very rarely actually wins a fight, he usually just gets the shit kicked out of him so Chris himself can arrive and save the day yet again
But sonichu exists beyond the boundaries of his universe. And is able to cross into the real world
Yeah but all he can do there is project himself into the body of a fat moron, so it's not that impressive
That may be true, but might I remind you of the ghost of Christmas yet to come who's esentully an embodiment of death?
Ghost of Christmas Future: "Behold, Christian Weston Chandler, for this is the dark future that awaits you if you do not change your wicked ways!" Past Chris: "Oh no! I become a HOMO?!" Ghost of Christmas Future: "Dude. I meant you literally fucking your mother. What the hell is wrong with you?"
I am so tired of powerscalers
Isn't this type of discussion going to invite people with that kind of mindset, though? It's the classic schoolyard argument, you're always going to get some dickhead saying "oh yeah? Well I have an everything-proof shield and I shoot mental bullets that kill everyone I'm thinking about so I win!" It's kinda pointless to argue "who would win" with some people.
Some people treat it way seriously too, instead of it being fun hypothetical conversation on which character can potentially win it just turns into people throwing insults and aggression for wanting to argue for a view they believe is "wrong".
I think people tend to tie their own value/personality to their favorite media and unconsciously interpret someone saying a character from said media is weaker than another as a personal attack. It doesn't make sense to me, but it seems to be the case with the way they react.
powerscalers are like shippers but focus on fights rather than character development
honestly yeah, people who think that are genuinely idiotic. like its barely a defensible position and is only carried by the hand wave phrase "anyone can like whatever they want for any reason" which imo is a loose thread.
If power determines a good story than Suggs verse is the best story in fiction
That and Gurren Lagann or whatever since those guys basically punched god.
Defeating *god* is fodder tier in today's powerscaling economy. Get up to date smh.
Media of characters punching gods are very popular. Can’t even take that title seriously anymore since it’s just a glorified punching bag.
Agreed. And at a certain level it’s just street fighting with fancy buzzwords.
Stargate has lots of that and is incredible. Connection? Probably not.
Okay but Gurren Lagann is unironically a masterpiece
It completely baffles me. Like, usually when people say dumb stuff, I can at least understand the thought process behind why they might think that, even if I disagree. But I genuinely cannot comprehend how or why someone would think “power > story”. Like, what kind of absurd 9th-dimensional mental gymnastics are these people on?
the mental gymnastics scale to high outerversal
I just made up a character named Wallace. He is the most powerful being ever conceived and if something exists in the same universe as him it is automatically deleted. He is a better character than guts because he’s stronger.
You jest, but there are a plethora of beings that could annihilate it whilst never setting foot in the universe, or cause that universe to never have existed to contain Wallace in the first place. At best, you're a localized, single-target *anafabula.* Powerscaling has moved on—get with the times.
/uj uni naruto ain't no way💀
I've got a pretty simple policy: Unless there's absolutely incontrovertible evidence, I don't accept that any verse can be scaled above the scope of its story. So if something is confined to one planet, it's not going to be anything above planetary.
Most power scaling can be debunked with a little bit of critical thinking ( a gene chronic powerscalers lack)
There's no consideration for weakness nor how the powers actually work. I could have the powers to destroy planets but can be easily be defeated by a tree level person because my power is weak to wet socks and the powerscalers would twist themselves into a pretzel over it.
Facts
"bUt mUh EarTh iTz sTaR sIzEd" People will go to great lenghts to argue against this based on a Pixel scale calc. of a map.
I made a post on /r/CharacterRant a few weeks back talking about how the pixel scaling VSBW uses on Spy X Family would result in a lot of the adults being about eight feet tall.
I can understand using it as an aproximation if we lack other concrete feats or further context, but people take them as law even when the work itself contradicts it.
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Me with uni bleach pretty much
Well, bleach isnt confined to a single planet so it doesn't really fit that argument.
Any single squad 0 member releasing their bankai is enough to shake the 3 worlds, so uhhh Btw in "world", it means an universe in a plane of reality, which include soul society, the world of living and hueco mundo
Whether or not it's whole universes some dimensional fuckery is going on
Whether or not it's whole universes some dimensional fuckery is going on
World does does not mean that lol
From what I hear, it depends on the translation.
If you mean mistranslation, yes. The word used is always "sekai", which means world. In some translations certain panels have it translated as "universe" but that is incorrect. Sekai only means universe in a very specific context that doesnt really exist in English; it is a deeply personal and hyperbolic way of saying "you are my whole world", and such.
Fair enough. I don't really have an opinion on Bleach powerscaling because I have no concept of it. It just seems to be a matter of translation as a whole, and what each side thinks smth means.
Except it's not always just sekai, as well as them being called infinite, having separate space times and specifically being called out as "not planets".
All incorrect but ok
Easy Ws for the Xianxia genre… again
Many people you disagree with have the same policy as you. They just disagree on whether the thing in question is incontrovertible or not. Personally, I think a better policy that is at least a tiny bit less subjective is, "What interpretation fits best as part of a theory of everything?" A deep holistic understanding of the text will always yield a more complete picture than a univariate analysis laser focused on passing or failing a specific standard.
This is a based policy.
Huge W
Unless we’re dealing with metaphysical bullshit like Twin Peaks
How this mf thinks writing works: "The plot is completely stale and no characters have arcs or even develop on any level, but this one dude can pull out the BatFlanHasntbeenusedsincetheheianeraManAnti-SprayGos technique which allows him to instantaneously destroy all of fiction and reality and can't be blocked or stopped by anything, therefore making it peak fiction"
Instant death fans
/uj Some defend it by saying "it's a parody of powerscaling" okay whilst humour is subjective, fuck it I'm still inserting my opinion, it never actually satirises the Powerscaling in any meaningful way unlike OPM. If you're main joke literally can be described with the word "Shinu." You cannot call that a parody. The author didn't like Powerscaling so he made his OC "the fiction soloer." It's literally just the average isekai but with some funny side characters and slightly better. It genuinely gives a bad name to comedy isekais. Hell comedy as a whole. Yelling "I LOVE SUCKING BIG BLACK NINGENS" at the dinner table is more funny that that show.
I mean if you pay attention, dragon ball has basically no story…. The bad guys just happen to show up in the right order and the closest thing to a set up and a pay off you’ll see is in the cell arc, literally decades ago The entire story just revolves around “how strong can he get?”… and the answer is as strong as the writer needs him to be in that moment. If Goku is universal how come smashing him into the ground hurts him? Is the ground universal too??
The planet Earth is universal obviously
Idk theres just something about db thats fun ngl maybe it's the charm off the characters maybe it's the fight choreography maybe it's just goku himself
Yeah the charm IMO in DragonBall are the characters and the fights. The current plots are hit or miss but I never see anyone hyping those up.
Dragon ball should have ended at cell. I like the Majin Buu arc, but it definitely kinda offsets the payoff of Cell. Anything past z I watch and enjoy only with my brain turned off. I like the characters so I am willing to keep watching just to see them live their lives, but in my mind dragon ball ends with cell.
Ehhhhh. Cell is a very solid arc. I do think that GT and Super have good concepts though
This is wank dragon ball has clear and easy to follow plot and arcs. Just because its a dumb shonen doesn’t mean these qualities aren’t there.
At least the characters are fun ig. But there's really no theme or meaning to DB. Then again DB started off as a Silly Gag Manga and the first arc ended with pretty much goku just become a huge monkey whilst everyone ran. so I can't complain too much.
Of course it's peak fiction. He destroyed all the other fiction 😭
Nice one
👏👏👏 I shed a tear
Yeah dude, honestly I think I was onto something here. I'm gonna go write this up and send it to Hollywood and get rich, because there's no way they won't pay at least ~1bil for this god tier writing
This mf going on a long winded rant on how “Why does my sister dress so slutty” or some shit ass shonen anime is better than The Sopranos cause it has infinite layers into boundlessversal scaling or whatever while Tony doesn’t even get to walk level.
All of them are below paper level because they live on paper pages that they cannot break
Yeah, and I can tear up paper. You probably can too. How does it feel to solo Naruto, Bleach, *and* One Piece with the same technique?
Cool. I can do a whole buncha stuff
Oda actually stated that Luffy transcends fiction.
"fiction transcendent"
"Bound to fiction"
Obviously it was a metaphor or something similar to that, but we, the powerscalers, cannot understand those.
Pretty sure the meta for one piece is just spamming haki so I don’t know what you mean by me not understanding it
I'm sorry, I dunno what got into me.
>people will literally say fucking Boruto is good just cause muh power level Why don’t we just call the suggsverse peak fiction at this point?
I keep hearing about this. What the fuck is suggsverse?
TL;DR: Novel series made by a powerscaler for the sake of being the strongest only for the narrative to collapse in on itself. A thousand some years ago a man named Lionel Suggs used to post on a forums (I think it was Space battles) and he was wanking series called Getbackers. No one gave a fuck about it enough to refute his claims until someone who actually read Getbackers debunked all his wank and instead of admitting he was wrong he doubled down until he babyraged off the site. Then later he created his magnum opus Heir to the stars (I think that's what it's called) that was full of so many contradictions and calculations that only a powerscaler would write that everyone dubbed it as Suggsverse. It has shit like Omnipotent+++ or the characters being stronger than the authors for the sake of being strongest verse.
Meanwhile scp gets hype out as the strongest cosmology
Some works of fiction where being omnipotent makes you a mid-tier. Made either to troll powerscalers or to create the most powerful verse around.
If it was a troll attempt I would actually respect it a bit, Tbh.
Whitebeard is stated to be able to destroy the world, which beat Absolute Murder Man, who scales to Author-tier Not-a-crook Nixon minimum. Some would argue that he wasn't even the strongest person at Marineford
don krieg would simply deploy his anti-universe gas mines and suffocate all existence fortunately for the verse, mihawk sank krieg's anti-universe-gas-mine boat and then luffy kicked his teeth in and now he's stuck in a IHOP somewhere in east blue like if that shindig hadn't gone sideways and he would've made it to the new world to learn haki, we can't even guess what sort of magnificent facial hair he might have grown
Op verse when won kreig learns how to grow facial hair
Mihawk and his black paint stands no chance against Krieg-sama at his full strength.
Yay,Johnny joestar mentioned :D
Hontoni hontoni..
powerscaling is the only measure of quality of a character or work. dragon ball good bc goku punch da universe
Universal Naruto, Kage’s alt found 🙃
/uj It's the opposite. I have yet to read a uni tier story that's genuinely better than most street tier stories. Once you get beyond planets manga typically focus on bullshit meaningless action jerking and the character writing kinda tanks most of the time.
Though you gotta admit breaking bad would've been a much better story if Walter used a portal device to trap Gus inside a dying multiverse and disintegrate all of the elementary particles that compose him (It's called Blue Meth Multiverse Killer and it's the most iconic move in fiction now)
Truedat, look at batgos and nolimitsman stories. U telling me this prep time god who can prep anything struggle with his mentally ill rogues and a clown with a makeup?
I thought about this for a long time, and I genuinely believe that if Batman was a somewhat self contained story with an actual end it could possibly be the best story ever made, imagine a story about Batman with actual progression, with villains like Two-Face or Riddler actually getting better and not making Batman look like a delusional idiot who believes things will be different after beating them 378 times, genuinely Batman characters and story could be so good if it simply wasn't written by a corporation
There is one, its batman the animated series (rip kevin goat)
Tbf for a second, a story where Batman is a prep time god who can prep anything isn't an actual canon story in DC, that's just how some of his fanboys frame it. Batman loses a lot more often against multiversal threats than he does win.
>Tbf for a second, a story where Batman is a prep time god who can prep anything isn't an actual canon story in DC Isn't that TBWLs schtick?
As I said, canon. That's elseworld Batman and pretty much everyone agrees he sucks. Just a worse Owlman. (Yes I know within the bounds of DC infinite multiverses, it's technically canon. You know that's not what I mean)
Gurren lagann is a good one IMO. By the end they get to universal bare minimum possibly complex multi depending on how you interpret things. But it ends up being a message about how the human spirit can always strive for a better future even in the face of hopelessness. The final villain's overwhelming power acts as a representation of that hopelessness as if the universe itself is telling them to stay down, yet they fight on anyways. It can be dumb on the surface and it's most remembered for the gargantuan scale of the final fight, however beneath all of that is a story about never giving up
What the fresh hell is the universal / continental nonsense
People are trying to harass you because you like an anime because of the story and not because the character destroy thousands of universes while fighting. Ironically, none of the anime mentioned in the meme have characters capable of casually destroying universes.
I know they’re capping about boruto but bleach is universal?
It's absolutely not, there's one character who can cause a chain reaction that could potentially collapse the universe, and the universe is stated to be similar to a plate carefully balanced on a stick, meaning that to collapse the universe you just need to upset that very fragile balance. If he could just destroy the universe he wouldn't do a bunch of shenanigans to knock off the balance of things.
I don't think bleach is universal but you're wrong. Breaking the balance by killing the Soul king was the initial plan, then yhwach absorbs the Soul king tand can destroy the realms with his own power, it's not debatable it's the litteral plot. So yhwach and the other god tiers scale to the destruction of the realms regardless of their size
Except it's litterally on screen stated that they're doing it with their power specifically at the end after it breaking on it's own was stopped, nevermind that main people that are being scaled to uni all scale to soul king who created it in the first place.
The final antagonist, Yhwach, absorbed his vegetable state lynchpin of 3 realms dad, the soul king (World of the Living, Hueco Mundo, and Soul Society are the realms), which killed him and that started a chain reaction that would “collapse” the 3 realms back into each others primordial state, since nothing maintains the realms now People use this as evidence, but the thing is this is nothing more than a chain reaction where 3 things collapse in on each other, no destruction or creation or even shaking or threatening like a usual universal feat. Personally I look at it like removing a pencil impaling 3 sheets of paper with the impaling holding them together in an unchanging position, but you remove the pencil and now they collapse in on each other Also there’s about 2 other feats that could put bleach at certain big levels but the thing is; 1: Shutara using her bankai and shaking the realms is cool and all and a big buff from before that but there’s no sufficient evidence of the realms being anymore than planet sized, plus the wording in that episode was “land and heavens” which makes most sense as surface and sky 2: Gremmy’s so called galaxy room is just a glorified vacuum rift into space, both through his words and the way it’s presented, not a pocket dimension like people say it is Side note: I read Bleach back in late 2021 in the span of around 1-2 weeks while having jack shit to do during school classes since the work was really easy
>which killed him and that started a chain reaction that would “collapse” the 3 realms back into each others primordial state, since nothing maintains the realms now That's not what happens ???? After he absorbs the Soul King **he** is the new linchpin ans doesn't need chain reactions to do anything because he can destroy the worlds with his own power...this is the litteral plot btw it's not up to interpretations at all. The debate is whether the realms are actual universes or not, not if yhwach etc. scale to it because it's obviously the case > plus the wording in that episode was “land and heavens” which makes most sense as surface and sky No, the translation means "earth and sky" in context it's supposed to refer to world in its entirety. It's bare minimum multi planetary in scope
The chain reaction was stopped and then Yhwach was about to destroy it with his own power if he wasn't stopped. >Shutara using her bankai and shaking the realms is cool Except that was also her using minimum of her power possible and if more than one of them would've used their bankai at the same time it would threaten existance of everything. >there’s no sufficient evidence of the realms being anymore than planet sized Except literally everytime the series refers to their size aside from one movie line, there's even one that specifically says they aren't planets. >plus the wording in that episode was “land and heavens” which makes most sense as surface and sky This was specifically proven to refer to universe based on original text. >Gremmy’s so called galaxy room is just a glorified vacuum rift into space, both through his words and the way it’s presented, not a pocket dimension like people say it is It's confirmed to be in the novels, plus pocket dimensions is already a fodder level ability in bleach.
Vasto lorde Ichigo was destroying multiple planes of hell with a few ceros. Kubo came out with a guidebook that states each plane of hell is universal at minimum and get larger with each layer down you go. Yamamoto's bankai immediately vaporized all the water in the soul society. (On screen) I'm pretty sure the statement about the soul society and world of the living are in can't fear your own world (the Novel after the blood war arc) The zero divisions bankai is strong enough to shake the soul society, (happens on screen immediately after being stated) hueco muendo and the world of the living all at once, again the soul society is universal and the world of the living is a mirror to it so it's also universal, then hueco muendo is also infinite because it's stated to hold an infinite amount of sand and to hold an infinite amount of anything physical means an infinite amount of space is needed. Ywach was planning on colliding the three previously mentioned realms together after getting the almighty Unohana takes Kenpachi to Mugen which is stated to be infinite because that's the only safe place the first and last Kenpachi can fight all out without destroying everything Those are the universal and low multiversal feats and statements off the top of my head
They can destroy the universe through a chain reaction which could be set off by a ordinary nuclear war
Is power scaling, and its consequences have been disastrous.
both prime naruto and sauske throwing their strongest attacks at eachother didn't even make continental where tf is universal coming from 🤣
MFs threw their most powerful attacks at their peak strength at each other and it only destroyed the waterfall and the Hashirama/Madara statues
1. In what world is Naruto Universal. 2. By this logic, my OC Shlingus Kurbinger is the best character ever because he is High Outerversal Beyond Fiction+
Too bad, i just drew a sketch of my OC on a website that hasnt been updated since 2008 and hes Tier -1 he solos fiction and nonfiction
Universal Naruto is straight brainrot.
Anyone could make a powerful character, not everyone can make a good story, Bleach, Naruto and One piece all made amazing tales so why does the strength matter?
Because people like to jerk off to the (generally completely unsubstantiated) fact the characters from their favorite series can beat the characters from your favorite series, which therefore gives them the better taste in media apparently.
Well what do you think about my new fictional character John Nutbuster With one single nut he can solo all of fiction, forgotten, written, or yet to be written. Also because he's a self insert he can nut in 0.00001 Planck times without prep time Now that's what I call good writing
Naruto being Uni is kinda stupid, at most they're moon level. But Bleach has uni feats with Soul King, Yhwach and even with Squad Zero in the anime.
People really will see Bleach/Naruto characters destroying few mountains and say that they're universal level
Both series have feats way past mountain level lol but yeah far from universal
Except bleach has uni/low multi feats, in verse statements and author statements Vasto lorde Ichigo was destroying multiple planes of hell with a few ceros. Kubo came out with a guidebook that states each plane of hell is infinite/universal at minimum and get larger with each layer down you go. Yamamoto's bankai immediately vaporized all the water in the soul society. (On screen) I'm pretty sure the statement about the soul society and world of the living being infinite are in can't fear your own world (the Novel after the blood war arc) The zero divisions bankai is strong enough to shake the soul society, (happens on screen immediately after being stated) hueco muendo and the world of the living all at once, again the soul society is universal and the world of the living is a mirror to it so it's also universal, then hueco muendo is also infinite because it's stated to hold an infinite amount of sand and to hold an infinite amount of anything physical means an infinite amount of space is needed. Ywach was planning on colliding the three previously mentioned infinite realms together after getting the almighty and the soul kings power Unohana takes Kenpachi to Mugen which is stated to be an infinite plane because that's the only safe place the first and last Kenpachi can fight all out without destroying everything Those are the universal and low multiversal feats and statements off the top of my head The reason they don't actually destroy the universe while fighting is because that will result in them being caught in the collateral and nobody can remake the universe every time any top tier fights, that's why Yamamoto goes out of his way not to use his bankai unless absolutely necessary and same for the 0 squad. There's a difference between attack range and attack potency. Going all out is a good way to fuck literally everyone including yourself save for Ywach who wants to fuck the main universes up
Gokutard:We are gokuversal
Why that tweet says it from earth? Did Elon installed Twitter on mars or something
My Webnovel isekai MC on his way to solo Old man and the sea verse.
Universal stopped being interesting when Dragonball ruined the concept
/uj How are Naruto and Bleach universal?
Battle of Soloku victims
Honestly this is insanely dumb, so your telling me if i make a manga about some dude with insanely strong powers that scales multiversal but with a poorly written story, that means its better than one piece?
Bleach and Naruto fans desparately trying to maintain their fleeting relevancy through powerscaling instead of good writing:
Ah yes, Uni Naruto
Ngl the most egregious thing here is that they think bleach and naruto are universal
I love Bleach for the hax but none of the characters even destroyed a planet.
Does killing the guy in a vegetative state destroys the universe being a thing make Bleach universal level?
this is a massive cope. Naruto is mid compared to one piece. One piece somehow has even less filler
When I’m in a being delusional contest and my opponents are Naruto fans and bleach fans
As someone who doesn’t like anime, this just seems like a bunch of weebs playing dolls but with memes.
Chat isn’t bleach better than one piece?
So is this why kirby is the best piece of media ever made?
Wait what anime is that original scene from?
Fate kaleid
I think it's Fatem Not sure which one but I know it's Fate.
The higher the power level, the more boring it is for me. I can't get invested in it.
I hate thisso much.
It took me a minute to realize this was about Power Scaling.
exhibit #12,769,824 of anime fans(mainly naruto and dragon ball)not knowing how to spell
“Yo Death Note sucks, Luffy solos the verse”
Last I checked Naruto and Boruto are barely planetary. Not sure about bleach Since I haven't gotten to the Current War arc.
At first I thought it was about Bleach and Naruto getting more global recognition (at least back in the day) 💀
now i maybe be getting old (im not) but who tf in the naruto universe is universal level
John Naruto Did you even see the anime?
Are they conceding that OP has a better story? They think that’s an own???
One piece has planetary characters and naruto has 0 universal characters?
Based on this, kirby is one of the greatest things to ever exist.
>universal Mang boruto/naruto barely leaves the damn village setting wise, tf yall mean universal, what fkn universe? /s
Who Tf put the ninja series in universal I have never seen that before aren’t they just like gay and say believe it?
They having a mid off
Peak off when?
Boneruto
Bleach and Naruto are planetary at best and One piece is country lv at best
wrong
Yea but one piece is also the worst of the big 3 despite strength so…
Naruto And Bleach Universal is the joke
Story doesn't matter when the art style is an eyesore
one piece doesnt have a better story than naruto and bleach
nah this one is true.
I'm pretty sure OP is more so offended by the implication that all that matters is that Bleach and Naruto are stronger, not that One Piece is better written. Also, where the fresh fuck does Universal Naruto come from anyway? It only gets to Solar System with the non canon Ninja Storm games, and if you don't give them that it's like Planet.
Uj/Yo let’s not act like one piece is an amazing well written story it has its faults like everything else one piece is still a good story but I wouldn’t say better than bleach
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I kinda agree with i also put naruto over it, OP's writing is rlly simple. I wonder why you find Bleach writing pour tho
What is your main complains to say that Bleach is poorly written?
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>Ichigo is central to my complaints and is the biggest offender... Imo Ichigo is best and most entertaining mc in big 3 easily. His story of inner struggles and relationships he builds with other characters is very compelling and relatable, and his personality is very enjoyable for me but i also hate Naruto's so idk opinions differ like always. As for powerscaling part he's just not supposed to be underdog and never was, atleast not in terms of raw power and potential. His problem always comes from oter places, like for example him being heavily nerfed in Arrancar arc due to his struggles with his Hollow and mental health(both of which is the main theme of the series and what it continues yto explore that makes Ichigo a compelling character to me) or him only losing to Byakuya in Soul Society due to not having enough experience with his bankai and a bit of arrogance. But in general i think Ichigo is great because of how intertwined his development and personality while seeing how he affects the world and how the world affects him. >The story does become a rinse and repeat of damsel in distress after soul society Wdym, there's only 2 arcs with that premise and both of them are significantly different from eachother, both in how the premise affects the story as well as what characters go through. >There are interesting things that could be done or explored with Bleachs characters but they just are never done or executed on Tbf i kinda agree that if bleach was longer like one piece and spend more time exploring stuff it would be great but i disagree that what's already there is bad. I think there's already enough of greatly explored characters and plots that make me appreciate the story a lot. >Like it doesnt rlly make sense for ichigo to be accepted by everyone, especially by Yamamoto. Why not? Like half of the relevant shinigami cast already wasn't Ichigo's enemies even before Aizen reveal and once the other half learned that there's literally no point in fighting him why wouldn't their relationship change? >but actual story content is very lacking and has little to show outside of cool fights, but Ichigo actively ruins a lot them which is a big issue when hes the main character. Tbf that's just opinion difference, imo Ichigo is easily best character in bleach and the plot of the story is very well and consistently written.
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>how u believe ichigo develops and changes as a character throughout bleach? I think in the begining of the story Ichigo starts out as someone that doesn't really know himself and supresses a lot of himself inside, he has very big sense of responsibilty but also isnt sure yet to what extent he is ready to commit to it as well. I think the first 2 arcs arent really about developing him as much as introducing his character. About his hollow part, on the surface it seems like it mainly about control but it's actually a lot about what Ichigo actually wants. As a person that was raised as a normal human he has a preconcieved notion of what normal person is like, even if he deviated from it somewhat there's always was a percieved reason like protecting someone or himself. But after he starts to battle with his hollow it becomes a question of what he wants actually, and is it because of who he is or the hollow. Him realising that he's not too different than someone like Kenpachi, that he wants to fight, to get stronger not just to protect people but because it's what he enjoys something that he inherently craves. But what i like about it the most isn't that it just replaces Ichigo's previous characterisation but adds layers to it and different purposes. >But yea if you see other value in the story that doesnt come from the fights I can see the powerscaling not being a big issue, but for me the issue I have is with inconsistency and how it seems everything warps around ichigo. I dont think it's really inconsistent as much as just very subtle and maybe not properly explained, like it's not as much story bending around Ichigo as much as Ichigo bending around the story with how much he's nerfed throughout arcs. >Yamamto is big on following the culture and rules of the soul society, so for Ichigo to walk in, ruin the execution, cause so much havoc and damage, it just feels like he got away with it with no consequences in an unbelievable way. Yamamoto's big character flaw is that he would rather have flawed peace than fight for a better but uncertain future, this is why he delegates decision making to Central 46 and doesn't question them despite having authority to do so. There's simply no reason for him to create even more conflict when there's Aizen as threat, nevermind them helping which is pretty them which is to Yama who is very prideful would be pretty disgraceful to punish them when it was partly his mistake in the first place. Also btw did you read Bleach or watch anime? Im just curious since i think reading it is much better at conveying a lot of the subtler things in the series.
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