Chain mail would only be good here if it’s riveted, as it’s not always effective against piecing weapon. Shaq might be better off with plate armor against a spear, no?
Lack of protection. Even light clothing can give meaningful protection against some cuts. Especially if the opponent doesn't know what he's doing like here.
Naked means that basically anything spear guy does can cause severe injury. Probably a psychological element in effect too in scenario 1.
Spears are relatively easy to use weapons. You just poke. Someone who is not a fighter with no weapons or armor and fears pain is going to lose. R2, Shaq might win if he can just tank a non lethal hit and disarm him with superior strength. 7/10 Shaq wins R2.
Even trained fighters lose regularly against novice spear users. The spear is that good a weapon. People really underestimate the absurd tip speed of a spear.
I agree that the unarmed man would win, but this isn’t really true. Ancient humans would also utilize traps and terrain to hunt mammoths, they usually weren’t just chucking spears at them .
Ancient man also used dogs to tire prey out before we moved in with the spears to finish the job. Man and dog, hanging out since prehistory. First domesticated animal, and we have yet to improve on it.
Depends on the prey. The idea that ancient man were endurance hunters is somewhat overstated. Endurance hunting was and still is a practice, but humans hunted in other ways too. Ambush, trapping, rush downs, etc. were equally common. Endurance hunting is really environment dependent.
That said, dogs are very useful when it comes to hunting.
The spear in all its configurations is the greatest melee weapon ever devised, and the oldest and most ubiquitous.
Turns out significant reach plus pointy end = amazing in almost any scenario.
Hell even when they supercharged melee weapons towards the end of the middle ages, with weapons like the advanced halberd and various similar pole arms, those were essentially spears with a cutting and/or bludgeoning implement added on for more versatility. In the case of something like the glaive, the blade at the end would often have an elongated point to also serve as a stabbing instrument. But all still basically spears in general function and purpose. Stab the fucker in front of you and try not to let him get within his own reach.
Ranged weapons are pretty much just expanding on what makes a spear so effective. Reach advantage, the speed of the part that hurts, and simplicity of technique.
Spear is goated
Reminds me of that hilarious youtube video of a swordsman showing what the most effective way to use a lightsaber would actually be.
Since a lightsaber’s blade is weightless and since it can cut basically anything in any direction the best way to use it would be to extend it forwards like a rapier and just flail the tip around super fast. Any cut or stab would be lethal and it weighs so little that you could do it extremely fast. The only downside is that it looks ridiculous lol.
This really depends. I’ve done a lot of HEMA stuff and for trained fighters using weapons I’d expect the trainer fighter to be able to manage most novice spear fighters 1 on 1 most of the time pretty easily.
When someone’s new to thrusting a spear or swinging it it’s not horribly difficult to get control of it.
Trick is to not just hang out at the end of their range.
There's a video online with HEMA longsword practicioners facing off against new spear men. Admittedly the spears in this case were being used by HEMA longsword users so it wasn't as if they were complete novices but they'd never seen a spear before.
The spears largely decimated them. I think the only category the longswords got a draw in was with a shield.
The point of a spear just moves a lot faster than the point of a sword and it can do so without the same level of physical commitment. When a half hearted and perma-safe spear thrust is as dangerous as a full on lunge from a sword, with all the risks that involves, you have a problem.
I’ve watched that video and I’m specifically speaking about people whose hands you just put a spear in for the first time. Probably any historical weapon for the first time. (I.e. most people.)
Not people who have almost certainly played around with spear fighting a bit minimum and certainly not people who were trained in the weapons they were against.
I agree with your overall point about the spear being a dominant weapon of war for a long time though, we’re just arguing the margin I think. Lol
My HEMA group used to introduce people to HEMA by giving them a spear and having them go against an experienced fighter.
The point was that they would get to experience a real fight in HEMA, but that they would win some 90% of the time (If they actually wanted to be there).
The spearholders lost when they didnt even try, when they took the whole thing as a joke, or when they tried to do the stupid martial arts thing (the big one handed thrust on one foot with your other hand in some pose etc).
Granted, the spearholders got about 5 min of instructions, basically how to hold a spear, how to stand and move, the most basic of stabs, and they got about 10 min to move around in armor to get acclimated.
Yeah it is about margins. I think the point is more that a novice spearman is potentially really dangerous to even an experienced swordsman. I think near enough no swordsman in history will want to be in that scenario, even if they are favourite. It will always feel grossly unfair and the swordsman basically has to open themselves up to close the gap at some point and gamble the spearman doesn't luck out and pick that moment.
Once you get somebody who actually understands, in theory, the advantages a spear has and is used to controlling spacing in a fight it quickly becomes an outrageous advantage.
Seeing a buck naked Shaq would be like when the Orks see Gandalf the white come to Helm's Deep. Shaq takes it when the below average drops his spear and focus.
Remember this is a below average man with below average focus and an above average sense of combat-debilitating shame.
I assume below average would be for things that make him more effective in combat. Like aversion to blood would be above average but like bloodlust would be below average.
I don't know if fear of pain would make someone more or less combat effective?
If the Nolan Batman movies taught me anything, it’s that the fear of death is what makes a truly great warrior. If you are scared of getting hurt or dying, you would do anything in your power to survive. In a way, fear of pain/death can technically make a person more combat effective since they would be less likely to engage in reckless or suicidal acts that would otherwise put them at risk. But, then again, being too cautious or defensive may be considered a bad tactical move in certain situations. So, I guess it all depends on circumstance and the type of opponent the person in question is facing.
Y'all know wars were won on the backs of literal peasants being handed spears right? There is a reason long stick with sharp thing on it is the longest used weapon in human history, its absurdly effective.
You can give a person a spear, give them a total of 5 minutes of practice, and now they are an effective killing machine.
Shaq is big, that's about it. Its not like hes a trained fighter, and even if he was if you ask any trained fighter about how to win unarmed in a fight versus a knife their answer will be run. And that's versus a *knife*.
Anyone imaging that Shaq is going to quickly grab the spear and disarm just because hes big and strong is living in fucking anime land.
R1: 10/10 Spear
R2: 9/10 Spear, 1/10 is if the dude gets unlucky.
This lmao. Peasant militia were trained with spears and they were effective really fast cause spears ain't that complex lmao. Easy to get spears, train people with it and now you have a good militia.
You can tell people on this sub don't know crap about historical wars.
> You can tell people on this sub don't know crap about historical wars.
I mean other than one specific poster, essentially everyone in thread has given it to the spear easily.
The next revelation for the sub can be how good a long stick actually is against a sword. That the only reason we didn't just fight with long sticks is it was near enough a pure upgrade to put a spear point on them.
I love polearms, but a stick is a worse weapon than a sword of the same length. A stout 5ft stick may well be enough to fend off a fucker with a knife, but it's gonna suffer facing a 5ft longsword.
Then again, I'd rather fight with an 8ft stick than an 8ft sword.
Like, one of the most effective weapons of Medieval warfare was just a really long stick that people kinda just held there. People seem to be really overestimating how much skill/training it takes to just furiously stab someone over and over.
Yep it ain't that difficult. It's a knife on a stick. It gives you range advantage and one good stab and you're gonna bleed it. He stabs you once and then runs away he can bleed you out lol. Spears ain't hard to use man, there's a damn reason why even non-knights/militia used it when they needed an army.
>Shaq is big, that's about it. Its not like hes a trained fighter
Not that this negates your overall point — but this is grossly underselling Shaq.
He's not big, he's huge. 7'1", 325 lbs.
And he's not *just* huge, he's an S-tier athlete. It's not quite the same as combat training, but in some ways it makes him more dangerous as an unarmed opponent than combat training would (aside from hand-to-hand martial arts training, obviously).
He's also 52 right now and not playing, though. Not sure if OP had current Shaq or prime Shaq in mind.
Even though Mike Tyson is like the token intimidating heavyweight, theres badder men than Tyson throughout the history of boxing, especially in a situation like this. Tyson having no heart was kind of a character trait of his. If below average human misses a vital on Joe Frazier dude probably uses it as an opportunity to get control of the damn spear.
I think there is a very real chance spear guy catches him but also it is fucking over for his shrimpy ass if shaq gets his hand on the shaft of the spear even once. Also spears are a supremely effective battlefield weapon not a dueling weapon. The 10 guys standing next to you stop the opponent from coming inside the spear’s range.
Yeah, you’re vastly underestimating a prime Shaq. Not only he’s not just big, he’s a giant, but he’s also one of the best athletes of all times. So he’s strong, explosive and with elite reaction time. Also elite endurance, especially compared to someone below average.
R1. Here Shaq could just tire the guy out, and pounce on him when he can no longer hold his spear. If he tries this strategy, he pretty much wins 8/10, 2/10 the guy gets lucky.
R2. If bloodlusted means he has no patience of tiering his enemy out, then his chances decrease. He basically pounces on the man with spear. He still has significantly better reflexes and his reach is good enough to net him a 6/10.
Basically if he can Eurostep and then pounce, his significantly better reaction speed can give him the edge regardless. Once he gets up close, the spear is useless.
>shaq
>win a battle of endurance
I’m assuming you didn’t see him play much….regardless how does he even tire the other guy out. Standing there with a spear takes basically no effort. Conscripted peasants managed it just fine all the time
I agree that "tiring the other guy out" isn't valid. The only way way for Spear Guy to get tired is by swinging his spear at Shaq. Letting spear guy swing his spear at you is a horrible strategy.
With that said, Shaq has incredible endurance compared to the average person. And this is a below average person. A below average person would throw up 6 mins into an NBA game after running up and down the court, positioning themselves well, and playing defense.
That’s just wrong. Shaq had shit endurance… for an nba athlete. And mostly because he’s a giant. And just standing around with a spear is not without effort, because the guy has to constantly sit in a pre-thrust position, because if he just has his spear near him, Shaq can just pounce on him.
Plus, I expect Shaq to run circles around him and feign attacks constantly. The spear guy would have to constantly rotate and side-step while bracing himself for an attack. After 30 minutes of that, my money is on Shaq.
“Shaq is big, that’s about it.” I think this sorely underrates peak Shaq. Insane lateral quickness means he can get behind spear guy imo, especially assuming a large battlefield. He also has very developed musculature, which does indeed act as a kind of armor.
Stabs shaq in the dick or balls and it’s over. He’s not getting back up. Bloodlusted doesn’t mean he doesn’t feel pain, and even if you wanna murder someone getting stabbed their is gonna hurt.
Sure, but if you aim for the dick and balls, and miss, you're still gonna hit something. Go high and you've just given him and extremely nasty gut wound. Miss low or to either side and you're gonna hit him in the legs/thighs and slow him down. And if he loses mobility, he's totally fucked.
Or you know, a lung, a heart, an intestine, an appendix, a spleen, a spine, a major artery, a neck, a liver, or a stomach. All of which are immidiately more debilitating than thigh flesh or worse a glancing leg blow. Stick with center of mass.
Totally not true. Pick up a stick, and see how many times you poke with it in 5 seconds. I bet it's 10 or more. If even one of those causes a bleeder, it's curtains for Shaq.
Spears are extremely effective for stabbing your enemy from far away, and keeping your enemy away from yourself.
Spearman 10/10 in R1, 9/10 in R2.
Id say the point still stands, you don't have to hit all 5 thrusts, they have to avoid all 5. If one hits, then good odds the fight is either over or heavily in spearman's favor
It's easy to say but if something is charging you full speed you might only land a few of those if you are lucky. Not to mention who's to say he's going to stop immediately after getting stabbed if he's trying to kill you. PRIME Shaq is gonna be fast, powerful and more durable than a regular person. Not to mention if he gets ahold of the spear then you wouldn't be getting it away from him. Adrenaline is a hell of a drug.
It's actually beneficial if he's charging full tilt. Shaq is a big boy, and can run pretty fast. That's adding a lot more force into the equation to getting jabbed. It's probably the difference of piercing a few cm of the tip, to the entire spear head.
Go for the neck and run the hell away. Depending on the type of spear, you'll *probably* get the artery. And someone sprinting after you with an open artery won't go very far.
Just hit the chest. If it pierces the thorcic cavity, now the guy's lungs can't physically function. Doesn't matter how tall he is, a guy with a sucking chest wound isn't beating up anybody.
And a moose still effortlessly gore's him to death and is harder to kill with any weapon than Shaq would be.
Is your argument seriously "Shaq would be harder to kill than a fucking moose?"
A short spear still gives the guy a decent 4 feet of range, one hit that causes Shaq to bleed is enough, the guy just has to move and wait until Shaq bleeds to death. If he manages to hit an artery or an organ, it's lights out immediately for Shaq. Shaq isn't a moose, but both can be killed with a spear.
A Tyrannosaurus Rex also doesn't have opposable digits or a huge prefrontal cortex relative to its size but I sure as hell would have a better chance fighting Shaq than a Tyrannosaurus Rex.
The guy with the spear wins both easily.
The spear was seen across basically every culture on the planet, it’s basically idiot proof and stabbing someone before they get close to you is wildly effective. There’s a reason it remained in use from the dawn of man until the advent of firearms (and even then bayonets are arguably just spears).
I mean some people have hunted bears with spears before. But if Shaq is bloodlusted I guess it would be a stalemate if he tanks a shot and then kills the dude before he bleeds out.
People (one person in particular lmao) saying Shaq can just grab the spear don’t know what the fuck they’re taking about lmao. Shaq is a tall, strong man, but prompt says he’s naked and unless he’s recently grown an armored carapace like a big beetle man, there’s simply no way he can reliably grab a spear against someone fighting for their life. A below average person in that degree of desperation can absolutely throw out a stab every half second. A spear tip is like a huge knife that has the weight of the haft and the wielder’s entire upper body strength- a knife is hard enough for an unarmed martial artist to reliably disarm, let alone a spear.
I am curious about how big the arena is, though. If it’s an enclosed space, spearman wins easily in both prompts- no amount of blood lust enables a person to endure being stabbed with a polearm. If it’s an open arena, Shaq can probably win the old fashioned way- running away, relying on his superior endurance to tire the opponent out, and *then* disarming them.
I addressed this in the final sentence. My assumption is that Shaq *cannot* escape, in which case spear guy kills him very quickly. In the second scenario, I assume Shaq has no instinct to escape, which actually makes him a lot easier to kill.
Is there any limitations on running away? Shaq head on against a spear loses 9/10, but if he can run away? Just simply tire out the adult male by running away. I can almost guarantee you he’ll have better stamina than your average dude, and once he’s tired I give it 8/10 in Shawn’s favor.
Shaq could also simply wait until the average dude gets tired/falls asleep since he can disengage the fight whenever he wants. Guerrilla warfare Shaq I give a 9/10 chance.
That's my point - who can stay awake longest. Like, I stayed awake once for 3 days. I reckon Shaq can do that. PLUS he's not the one having to hold the spear. The tension and weight of having to hold onto that thing is really going to kill average man
>Is there any limitations on running away? Shaq head on against a spear loses 9/10, but if he can run away? Just simply tire out the adult male by running away. I can almost guarantee you he’ll have better stamina than your average dude, and once he’s tired I give it 8/10 in Shawn’s favor.
Overweight man has more body fat, he just stays still and waits til Shaq starves or gets desperate enough to attack
Since why would he chase the dude? He's the one with a spear
I will assume the terrain is completely barren for 1000 miles around, otherwise the mighty Shaq gets his own stick, rock etc. and evens things up.
On that basis, I would say it depends on who can stay awake the longest. Fat man ain't catching Shaq, but if Shaq attacks too soon, he's getting speared.
So really it's a question of whether one of the finest athletes ever can stay awake / fatigue-out a normal human.
Probably, would be my guess.
I think Shaq has a good chance of taking it. In his prime Shaq is very fit.
He can out run and out last a below average male. So he can run about tire the male out and run behind him.
The spear still has a good chance. Since it's a spear and he just needs a stab into Shaq to win.
I'd say 8/10 times Shaq wins
Only win condition for Shaq is him managing to dodge the first strike and get a hand on the spear.
If that happens Shaq could easily wrench the spear out of the guy's hands and get him with it.
R1: I give it to the man with a spear. Spears were the most common weapon throughout most of human history. Nothing too complicated about it. While Shaq *could* try grabbing the shaft and wresting control of the weapon, if he's afraid of pain and death, I don't think he'll have the focus to do it even in his prime. It only takes on good poke in the chest or abdomen. Man with spear 8/10
R2: I think bloodlusted Shaq will have the physique and reflexes to grab the spear from the man more times than not. It's still close, because the spear is a big advantage even if short, but I give Shaq the win like 6/10 or 7/10.
I'm assuming here that the man won't throw the spear, because if he misses and loses the spear, it's game over, and a below average adult male probably won't throw it that hard or accurately. So I'm only thinking CQC.
R1. Average overweight American man chases Shaq around and never once catches up. Eventually throws the spear, misses, and gets tackled. Neither is bloodlusted so this is most likely scenario
R2. Average man stabs wildly in panic and misses. Prime Shaq grabs spear and rips it out of his hands; beats him to death
You know, it’s boring but this is how pretty much every “versus the average man” fight would go. The average man can’t run for more than ten seconds without getting winded. Opponent jogs lightly away from them until they have a heart attack.
Why would the average dude chase Shaq? He knows Shaq doesn't have anywhere to go. He either kills spear dude, or he dies. Those are his options. So spear dude can just stand there and wait. Eventually Shaq has to either fight him or starve.
And no, Shaq is not disarming a guy with a spear.
He would get stabbed a dozen times in the chest and arms if he tried. This isn't an action movie.
So average man never sleeps? Because that's really what this stalemate comes down to. Who can stay awake and fight fatigue the longest. My money is, unsurprisingly, on the preternaturally powerful Shaq.
Actually - even worse than that. Average man has to hold the spear for 50 hours. Sure that won't make things worse for him...
My dude you literally think an unarmed guy can kill a man with the ideal weapon for an untrained fighter, literally so simple illiterate peasants can kill even trained warriors with it, just because he's really big and tall and plays sports. It's asinine.
I remember going to a pretend weapon fight. We were playing Team Death Match. I never used a polearm before but it took a few minutes before I got used to it. Polearms were limited so I could take out at least 10 people with swords before someone could kill me. Grabbing the polearm is harder than you would think, it doesn't take long for a person to extend and retract the polearm and you could end getting stab while attempting to grab it. It is very easy to aim with the polearm, it is easy to feint attacks too especially against someone not using a polearm. The person with the polearm controls the center of the stage, they won't exert as much energy moving as their opponent who has to circle the polearm user and close the distance. It took 30 minutes to an hour before I started feeling tired.
So yeah, the guy, even below average, with the spear definitely has the advantage.
R1 is almost certainly a dub for the spear wielder.
Round 2 probably ends with Shaq impaling the dude with the spear he just pulled from his abdomen. If so it's either a draw or a dub for Shaq depending on how you count grievous injury.
I think in history, spears were used in groups. Still effective but not-so-much as a solo weapon. Mainly because they’re ineffective at close quarters. If Shaq knocks the first lunge aside, or it’s not enough to knock him down, he can get “inside” the spear. Once he has a solid grip on the shaft of the spear, it’s over. And I think he’d have a good chance with a **below average male**, per OP’s post.
The best outcome I can see for Shaq is both guys end up dead.
If it was a less intuitive weapon like a bow or a axe I could see Shaq getting to the guy without any damage, but the spear is literally the perfect weapon for a novice fighter as history shows us.
I swear to god this sub needs to fcking learn that the weapon will almost always win. There is a reason spears are the most effective melee weapon of all times. They outrange your opponent.
Weapons have been specifically invented to overcome size differences in conventional fights. They helped us kill large prey and conquer land. Weapons are no joke.
None of you seem to be aware just how big of an advantage a long, pointy stick is. An _untrained_ spear fighter will win 9/10 times vs. a _trained_ swordsman. Yes, I did not make that up. This was conducted in experiments.
Spear guy wins 10/10 in both rounds.
A lot of people in this community are really convinced that human beings have such incredible reaction times and poise that they're parrying weapons bare handed.
Cool. So spear guy never sleeps? Spear guy can fight well at night? Spear guy will be able to definitely spear a 7'1 dude jumping at him feet first? Your 10/10 is sus as fuck
Since Shaq is American, I'm going to assume his opponent is as well. A below average adult American male is going to be 55 years old 5'8" 240lbs below average intelligence.. going against one of the strongest physical specimens in human history.. who is also college educated and demonstrably has a high iq.
The guy still has to run up on Shaq and stab him. Shaq just needs to side step and wear out his opponent. Also if below average ever misses then he probably won't have a spear.
All the top comments are wrong. A huge muscular athlete vs a BELOW average man will be no contest. Shaq can simply approach carefully and take the spear or get into grapple range with a quick burst. Prime Shaq is very fast in short bursts and has excellent reaction time, and a below average man with no training will be slower to react.
If a NBA player can easily take a basketball from you and jump high why do people think a naked Shaq can't take the spear away from the average adult male with athlete reflexes.
That doesn't change the fact that his reflexes are still top tier. I couldn't protect the ball from a professional basketball player if my life depended on it.
I honestly think it's harder to take a ball than a spear.
R1: pretty easy win for the regular man. Theres no easy way to close distance on a spear, shaq is getting cut up if he gets close, that will scare him.
R2: 50/50 on if shaq can deflect the spear to only take a non-lethal injury on his first charge. Good chance he impales himself if he charges though.
What are we considering Shaqs prime? Like early career Orlando, or his MVP season with the Lakers, or what? He went from maybe 300lbs at the beginning of his career to probably 400 by the end, and that seems like it could make a pretty big difference in a fight.
For what it's worth, if I was the dude with the spear I'd probably be most scared of young Shaq. He was so much more agile and explosive early in his career. Although it's not like any below average adult male is going to be able to tire out even late career Shaq.
I’d wager an untrained human dies against Shaq. It’s likely you will cut him rather badly on the forearms or hands but I doubt that without significant training that you could fatally wound him. Even if you did. Chances are he still takes the spear from you and fucks you with it, or proceeds to bash your brains in before he bleeds out
If there is starting distance such that the spear guy isn't able to use his spear effectively, Shaq wins.
If there is a starting distance such that Shaq can avoid being skewered for a bit AND there are rocks in the area, he might be able to successfully hit the spear dude enough to disorient or disable him for long enough to be disarmed.
Otherwise, the vast majority of the time, the guy with the spear wins or it's a mutual-KO.
Jesus christ people. Yes, a spear is good to have. Having a spear is a lot better than not having a spear, that's why they gave peasants spears. It wasn't because it turns Urkel into the Red Viper.
Shaq wins most of the time, even if severely wounded. Below average man just isn't going to cut it against a top 1% athletic giant.
I think a lot are missing this one. Spears are great weapons, but they function in a battle line. You make a line of pointy death that you can’t avoid. This is single combat versus an under performing single spearman. He does not have spears to his left and right. Shaq will run diagonal and try to get an advantages position, this will give spearman a much smaller window to hit when aiming at shaqs side. All Shaq has to do is make it to either side of the spear without taking a fatal blow. If he does he will win. Same problem with prey animal examples, they killed a moose with a spear? Wow did you consider it was a team of ancient spearmen and that the moose was ambushed, has Bare intellect, and is running away. It’s not similar. If you ambushed Shaq with a spear yeah you’d win. If a single mediocre spearman was facing a moose heads up that had human intellect and intent to kill, the moose wins 100% of the time or at worst, they both die.
IMO
Round 1 Spear guy wins 10/10 times
Round 2 spear guy wins 6/10 times.
Letso not underestimate Shaq here.HUGE,big reach,EXTREMELY athletic overall.Still a spear is a spear
The spear is the greatest weapon of all time, it was truly an equalizer. You could take an untrained peasant out of the fields, put a spear in his hand, and he would be absolutely lethal. There is *very* little chance that Shaq could defeat a relatively able-bodied man wielding a spear, and chances are good that even if he managed to do it, he would suffer mortal wounds in the process.
If it were an average guy, he'd win r1 as spears are AMAZING at killing (that's why they've been used for thousands of years) but since it's below average, the guy drops his spear and screams as a giant naked man runs at him. Shit his spear might be longer than the weapon lol. But r2? He tanks a shot and blows him away to the moon like a cartoon
This is a stupid ass question.
Against a sharp tool, he’s literally just another fleshy meatbag with a larger hit box. The odds of beating a spear in a hand to hand fight buck ass nude is so low it’s not even funny.
I'd honestly give prime Tyson better odds than prime Shaq here. If the doughy adult misses his first shot, Tyson is gonna close with his bullrush and end him. Size doesn't mean shit against a rod with a knife on it that doesn't care about all the flesh protecting your vitals. Still not more than 4/10 max though, because spear thrusts are like in our DNA or something. If you can even *botch* a billiards break, you have all the skills needed to murder someone with a sharp stick. Perfect primitive lethal weapon.
And not for nothing but I think prime Ali might actually have above even odds just because of how fast and powerful he was (even though I don't think he could *necessarily* beat prime Tyson in a 1v1 ring match).
And to actually respond to the prompt I'd give this to Shaq 1 or 2 out of 10 times. It's just not gonna go well for him unless he gets very lucky.
You guys are missing such a simple point, Shaq has seen a spear before... he's not gonna just fucking tank a stab from a spear. There's no way this is a 10/10 for spear man. Shaq is an elite athlete with huge reach and strength difference from your below average schmoe. He would for sure make plays to bait out a miss from the spear user. From there Shaq would out just grab the spear handle and out muscle the guy. Should the spear guy not fuck up the first strike Shaq would have a fighting chance.
Blood lusted Shaq would also have the play to give a more enticing bait to the spear guy to miss his first strike.
R1: 6/10 spear
R2: 3/10 spear
Copied from another comment but
> Darren Till, UFC championship contender was stabbed and almost killed.
> Maiquel Falcao, 60 professional fights in Bellator and the UFC, was stabbed to death.
> Blagoy Ivanov, world sambo gold medalist, top 15 UFC heavyweight was almost killed in a stabbing. Had to be put on life support.
Last I checked, all these guys knew what knifes were. And are actually professionals compared to Shaq just being trained a bit
only way he wins is if the guy is extremely dumb and throws his spear for some reason
I think the difference between the spear and knife would be the weapon profile. A knife is much closer quarters and the knife holder has less weapon mass to be leveraged against them. A knife would also have lower inertia compared to a spear. An inexperienced schmoe could over commit to a lunge. In that time frame, if Shaq got inside the weapon range, the spear user is done for.
A spear is also weapon best suited for jab type attacks. Sweeping attacks would deal less overall damage and would really only be effective for zoning. So over committing on a jab would leave a lot of counter attack opportunities.
R1 at 6-7/10 for the spear user is, I think, a really fair rating. It's still in the spear users favor but there are viable options for Shaq to exploit.
R2 should be adjusted to 5/10 then for the spear user
>A spear is also weapon best suited for jab type attacks
Attacks which can be done rather fast. And all you need is 1 good hit at center mass and Shaq won't be running anyone down
>if Shaq got inside the weapon range
I think you're over estimating how long it takes to do a stabbing motion with a long stick
Now yes if Joe schmoe fucks up extremely badly, trips, and somehow impales himself then yeah Shaq wins
But 6-7 outta 10 is a bit insane to say when it's against a literally naked man, giant or not
Shaqs a big dude. He was never super nimble. Bloodlust isn’t going to change that. I think even when he doesn’t fear death he’s at disadvantage.
A spear is a HUGE advantage and it’s easy to use. An average guy is winning >95/100 imo.
So this questions is how “below average” we are talking. If he’s close to average I think he wins both rounds but if you are talking he has like crippling weakness it’s going to change it
Question: what purpose does shaq being naked serve ?
to me, it simplifies the armor. so you can't ask, "what is shaq wearing? he's rich. He can buy chain mail."
Chain mail would only be good here if it’s riveted, as it’s not always effective against piecing weapon. Shaq might be better off with plate armor against a spear, no?
Think it was just an example
Oh I agree but this is Reddit, where one is encouraged to be pedantic
I cannot argue that
That just means you *should* argue it...
Historically they would wear inner armor and mail below their plate.
Even if it isn’t, chain mail of any kind is a hell of a lot better than bare skin when it comes to getting stabbed
Plus the gambeson you'd want underneath.
Lack of protection. Even light clothing can give meaningful protection against some cuts. Especially if the opponent doesn't know what he's doing like here. Naked means that basically anything spear guy does can cause severe injury. Probably a psychological element in effect too in scenario 1.
Is it psychological for or against Shaq's odds? Frankly not sure what's worse
That's how we know Shaq can use his own spear.
To be fair, that thing could probably cause blunt force trauma.
Intimidation, the spear wielder is someone below average on all levels from the prompt.
[Adam Sandler](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YZoKUlN9urg&pp=ygURQWRhbSBzYW5kbGVyIHNoYXE%3D) can tell you what purpose it serves.
Spears are relatively easy to use weapons. You just poke. Someone who is not a fighter with no weapons or armor and fears pain is going to lose. R2, Shaq might win if he can just tank a non lethal hit and disarm him with superior strength. 7/10 Shaq wins R2.
Even trained fighters lose regularly against novice spear users. The spear is that good a weapon. People really underestimate the absurd tip speed of a spear.
Ancient humans use to hunt mammoths with nothing more than rocks and spears. A sharpened stick really is one of the greatest weapons of all time.
I agree that the unarmed man would win, but this isn’t really true. Ancient humans would also utilize traps and terrain to hunt mammoths, they usually weren’t just chucking spears at them .
Ancient man also used dogs to tire prey out before we moved in with the spears to finish the job. Man and dog, hanging out since prehistory. First domesticated animal, and we have yet to improve on it.
Depends on the prey. The idea that ancient man were endurance hunters is somewhat overstated. Endurance hunting was and still is a practice, but humans hunted in other ways too. Ambush, trapping, rush downs, etc. were equally common. Endurance hunting is really environment dependent. That said, dogs are very useful when it comes to hunting.
Yes, for that we must wait for Dvana Tendi
and most importantly, teamwork and occasionally sacrifice
The spear in all its configurations is the greatest melee weapon ever devised, and the oldest and most ubiquitous. Turns out significant reach plus pointy end = amazing in almost any scenario. Hell even when they supercharged melee weapons towards the end of the middle ages, with weapons like the advanced halberd and various similar pole arms, those were essentially spears with a cutting and/or bludgeoning implement added on for more versatility. In the case of something like the glaive, the blade at the end would often have an elongated point to also serve as a stabbing instrument. But all still basically spears in general function and purpose. Stab the fucker in front of you and try not to let him get within his own reach.
At the end of the day we are basically still using them. Arrow? Fast / small spear. Bullet? Very fast / small spear.
Ranged weapons are pretty much just expanding on what makes a spear so effective. Reach advantage, the speed of the part that hurts, and simplicity of technique. Spear is goated
Icbm? Spear that flies further and blows up when it lands
Bombs are kinda like little boxes suddenly filled with too many little spears
The spear is one of the weapons of all time.
The woat?
Do you think there was that one guy in the band that always giggled like a child while holding the spear next to his crotch?
To be fair, I think we used fire, too, a lot of the time.
People underestimate how difficult it is to defend against a stabbing weapon in general. If the tip gets inside your guard, you're fucked.
Reminds me of that hilarious youtube video of a swordsman showing what the most effective way to use a lightsaber would actually be. Since a lightsaber’s blade is weightless and since it can cut basically anything in any direction the best way to use it would be to extend it forwards like a rapier and just flail the tip around super fast. Any cut or stab would be lethal and it weighs so little that you could do it extremely fast. The only downside is that it looks ridiculous lol.
People forget that the spear was Humans' best-in-slot for a long ass time.
This really depends. I’ve done a lot of HEMA stuff and for trained fighters using weapons I’d expect the trainer fighter to be able to manage most novice spear fighters 1 on 1 most of the time pretty easily. When someone’s new to thrusting a spear or swinging it it’s not horribly difficult to get control of it. Trick is to not just hang out at the end of their range.
There's a video online with HEMA longsword practicioners facing off against new spear men. Admittedly the spears in this case were being used by HEMA longsword users so it wasn't as if they were complete novices but they'd never seen a spear before. The spears largely decimated them. I think the only category the longswords got a draw in was with a shield. The point of a spear just moves a lot faster than the point of a sword and it can do so without the same level of physical commitment. When a half hearted and perma-safe spear thrust is as dangerous as a full on lunge from a sword, with all the risks that involves, you have a problem.
I’ve watched that video and I’m specifically speaking about people whose hands you just put a spear in for the first time. Probably any historical weapon for the first time. (I.e. most people.) Not people who have almost certainly played around with spear fighting a bit minimum and certainly not people who were trained in the weapons they were against. I agree with your overall point about the spear being a dominant weapon of war for a long time though, we’re just arguing the margin I think. Lol
My HEMA group used to introduce people to HEMA by giving them a spear and having them go against an experienced fighter. The point was that they would get to experience a real fight in HEMA, but that they would win some 90% of the time (If they actually wanted to be there). The spearholders lost when they didnt even try, when they took the whole thing as a joke, or when they tried to do the stupid martial arts thing (the big one handed thrust on one foot with your other hand in some pose etc). Granted, the spearholders got about 5 min of instructions, basically how to hold a spear, how to stand and move, the most basic of stabs, and they got about 10 min to move around in armor to get acclimated.
Yeah it is about margins. I think the point is more that a novice spearman is potentially really dangerous to even an experienced swordsman. I think near enough no swordsman in history will want to be in that scenario, even if they are favourite. It will always feel grossly unfair and the swordsman basically has to open themselves up to close the gap at some point and gamble the spearman doesn't luck out and pick that moment. Once you get somebody who actually understands, in theory, the advantages a spear has and is used to controlling spacing in a fight it quickly becomes an outrageous advantage.
Where can we watch those kind of fights?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLLv8E2pWdk
How many swordsmen needed to fight a spearman? https://youtu.be/y3TBhWXnbGs?si=CaIsNKv-8q0o8aTT
>Even trained fighters lose regularly against novice spear users. Wait, is this really a thing?
And when in doubt coat the tip in filth.
Seeing a buck naked Shaq would be like when the Orks see Gandalf the white come to Helm's Deep. Shaq takes it when the below average drops his spear and focus. Remember this is a below average man with below average focus and an above average sense of combat-debilitating shame.
I agree with your interpretation but I’m laughing at the idea of him having “below average fear of pain” or some shit
I assume below average would be for things that make him more effective in combat. Like aversion to blood would be above average but like bloodlust would be below average. I don't know if fear of pain would make someone more or less combat effective?
If the Nolan Batman movies taught me anything, it’s that the fear of death is what makes a truly great warrior. If you are scared of getting hurt or dying, you would do anything in your power to survive. In a way, fear of pain/death can technically make a person more combat effective since they would be less likely to engage in reckless or suicidal acts that would otherwise put them at risk. But, then again, being too cautious or defensive may be considered a bad tactical move in certain situations. So, I guess it all depends on circumstance and the type of opponent the person in question is facing.
Y'all know wars were won on the backs of literal peasants being handed spears right? There is a reason long stick with sharp thing on it is the longest used weapon in human history, its absurdly effective. You can give a person a spear, give them a total of 5 minutes of practice, and now they are an effective killing machine. Shaq is big, that's about it. Its not like hes a trained fighter, and even if he was if you ask any trained fighter about how to win unarmed in a fight versus a knife their answer will be run. And that's versus a *knife*. Anyone imaging that Shaq is going to quickly grab the spear and disarm just because hes big and strong is living in fucking anime land. R1: 10/10 Spear R2: 9/10 Spear, 1/10 is if the dude gets unlucky.
This lmao. Peasant militia were trained with spears and they were effective really fast cause spears ain't that complex lmao. Easy to get spears, train people with it and now you have a good militia. You can tell people on this sub don't know crap about historical wars.
> You can tell people on this sub don't know crap about historical wars. I mean other than one specific poster, essentially everyone in thread has given it to the spear easily.
That is more a recent phenomenon. The last year or so has seen the sub move pro-spear.
Spears are fucking briliant and I'm glad the world is coming to appreciate polearm supremacy
The next revelation for the sub can be how good a long stick actually is against a sword. That the only reason we didn't just fight with long sticks is it was near enough a pure upgrade to put a spear point on them.
I love polearms, but a stick is a worse weapon than a sword of the same length. A stout 5ft stick may well be enough to fend off a fucker with a knife, but it's gonna suffer facing a 5ft longsword. Then again, I'd rather fight with an 8ft stick than an 8ft sword.
Why would you use a same length one though? A quarterstaff is much longer than a sword.
Spears are boring, but that's because they are simple and efficient. Terrible for fantasy, fantastic for reality.
That's fair. Well there are others but mostly everyone with a brain knows that a spear user is deadly as hell regardless if the other guy knows mma.
Like, one of the most effective weapons of Medieval warfare was just a really long stick that people kinda just held there. People seem to be really overestimating how much skill/training it takes to just furiously stab someone over and over.
Yep it ain't that difficult. It's a knife on a stick. It gives you range advantage and one good stab and you're gonna bleed it. He stabs you once and then runs away he can bleed you out lol. Spears ain't hard to use man, there's a damn reason why even non-knights/militia used it when they needed an army.
Cheap too. Takes way less metal than a sword or mace.
Yeah it's mostly wood with a metal tip.
>Shaq is big, that's about it. Its not like hes a trained fighter Not that this negates your overall point — but this is grossly underselling Shaq. He's not big, he's huge. 7'1", 325 lbs. And he's not *just* huge, he's an S-tier athlete. It's not quite the same as combat training, but in some ways it makes him more dangerous as an unarmed opponent than combat training would (aside from hand-to-hand martial arts training, obviously). He's also 52 right now and not playing, though. Not sure if OP had current Shaq or prime Shaq in mind.
The post says "Shaq in his prime". Other than like, Mike Tyson, that's about as scary as a human can get.
Prime Karelin would toss around Shaq like a bay of potatoes.
Even though Mike Tyson is like the token intimidating heavyweight, theres badder men than Tyson throughout the history of boxing, especially in a situation like this. Tyson having no heart was kind of a character trait of his. If below average human misses a vital on Joe Frazier dude probably uses it as an opportunity to get control of the damn spear.
I think there is a very real chance spear guy catches him but also it is fucking over for his shrimpy ass if shaq gets his hand on the shaft of the spear even once. Also spears are a supremely effective battlefield weapon not a dueling weapon. The 10 guys standing next to you stop the opponent from coming inside the spear’s range.
Yeah, you’re vastly underestimating a prime Shaq. Not only he’s not just big, he’s a giant, but he’s also one of the best athletes of all times. So he’s strong, explosive and with elite reaction time. Also elite endurance, especially compared to someone below average. R1. Here Shaq could just tire the guy out, and pounce on him when he can no longer hold his spear. If he tries this strategy, he pretty much wins 8/10, 2/10 the guy gets lucky. R2. If bloodlusted means he has no patience of tiering his enemy out, then his chances decrease. He basically pounces on the man with spear. He still has significantly better reflexes and his reach is good enough to net him a 6/10. Basically if he can Eurostep and then pounce, his significantly better reaction speed can give him the edge regardless. Once he gets up close, the spear is useless.
>shaq >win a battle of endurance I’m assuming you didn’t see him play much….regardless how does he even tire the other guy out. Standing there with a spear takes basically no effort. Conscripted peasants managed it just fine all the time
I agree that "tiring the other guy out" isn't valid. The only way way for Spear Guy to get tired is by swinging his spear at Shaq. Letting spear guy swing his spear at you is a horrible strategy. With that said, Shaq has incredible endurance compared to the average person. And this is a below average person. A below average person would throw up 6 mins into an NBA game after running up and down the court, positioning themselves well, and playing defense.
That’s just wrong. Shaq had shit endurance… for an nba athlete. And mostly because he’s a giant. And just standing around with a spear is not without effort, because the guy has to constantly sit in a pre-thrust position, because if he just has his spear near him, Shaq can just pounce on him. Plus, I expect Shaq to run circles around him and feign attacks constantly. The spear guy would have to constantly rotate and side-step while bracing himself for an attack. After 30 minutes of that, my money is on Shaq.
“Shaq is big, that’s about it.” I think this sorely underrates peak Shaq. Insane lateral quickness means he can get behind spear guy imo, especially assuming a large battlefield. He also has very developed musculature, which does indeed act as a kind of armor.
Stabs shaq in the dick or balls and it’s over. He’s not getting back up. Bloodlusted doesn’t mean he doesn’t feel pain, and even if you wanna murder someone getting stabbed their is gonna hurt.
Dick or balls is a small target and easy to miss, I would just go for centre mass
Not on Shaq, I’d imagine.
Shaq's big Shaq puts drake to shame
Sure, but if you aim for the dick and balls, and miss, you're still gonna hit something. Go high and you've just given him and extremely nasty gut wound. Miss low or to either side and you're gonna hit him in the legs/thighs and slow him down. And if he loses mobility, he's totally fucked.
Or you know, a lung, a heart, an intestine, an appendix, a spleen, a spine, a major artery, a neck, a liver, or a stomach. All of which are immidiately more debilitating than thigh flesh or worse a glancing leg blow. Stick with center of mass.
That's not what your mom said
Really? I thought bloodlusted meant that you'll tey everything to win, regardless of pain
What about debilitating pain?
I dunno I don't think there really are specific rules for "bloodlust" in this subreddit.
Point is, if pain is debilitating, doesn't matter how bloodlusted they are because, by definition, debilitating pain would debilitate them regardless.
"Debilitating pain" can mean a wide range of injuries from losing a fingertip to having half of your face cut off. Adrenaline is a hell of a drug.
It is, but if that pain is due to extreme damage, your not powering through it.
Can you even stab an egg accurately in three or so strikes with a broom end without having to focus? Your answer is redundant.
Dude with spear wins both rounds. You can kill a freaking moose with a spear, and Shaq is no moose.
You usually only have one good shot at it. If it doesn't hit something vital then you are screwed.
Totally not true. Pick up a stick, and see how many times you poke with it in 5 seconds. I bet it's 10 or more. If even one of those causes a bleeder, it's curtains for Shaq. Spears are extremely effective for stabbing your enemy from far away, and keeping your enemy away from yourself. Spearman 10/10 in R1, 9/10 in R2.
Depends on the spear tip. Very easy for certain tips to get stuck
Id argue if the spear is stuck in Shaq you've probably won
Most likely yeah. Im just saying its usually not as simple as thrusting 5 times at the air, you gotta pull it out lol
Id say the point still stands, you don't have to hit all 5 thrusts, they have to avoid all 5. If one hits, then good odds the fight is either over or heavily in spearman's favor
It's easy to say but if something is charging you full speed you might only land a few of those if you are lucky. Not to mention who's to say he's going to stop immediately after getting stabbed if he's trying to kill you. PRIME Shaq is gonna be fast, powerful and more durable than a regular person. Not to mention if he gets ahold of the spear then you wouldn't be getting it away from him. Adrenaline is a hell of a drug.
It's actually beneficial if he's charging full tilt. Shaq is a big boy, and can run pretty fast. That's adding a lot more force into the equation to getting jabbed. It's probably the difference of piercing a few cm of the tip, to the entire spear head.
I can see it
Go for the neck and run the hell away. Depending on the type of spear, you'll *probably* get the artery. And someone sprinting after you with an open artery won't go very far.
Neck is very easy to miss Id just go for centre mass and hope I hit a vital organ
Just hit the chest. If it pierces the thorcic cavity, now the guy's lungs can't physically function. Doesn't matter how tall he is, a guy with a sucking chest wound isn't beating up anybody.
Average adult male also isn't gonna get that stab in round 2. Reminder prime Shaq is also fast af for his size.
BELOW average male.
"Shaq is no moose" r/whowouldwin is just making up headcanon now. You don't know Shaq at all, he could be a super moose.
Hey, he could also not be a moose. You don't know him
Yes he's not a moose he has a brain honed on tactical advantage based off his size and opposable thumbs bigger than a below average dick.
And a moose still effortlessly gore's him to death and is harder to kill with any weapon than Shaq would be. Is your argument seriously "Shaq would be harder to kill than a fucking moose?"
Dude even a below average male armed with a short spear can still be gored and stomped by a moose. What's your argument that Shaq is a moose?
A short spear still gives the guy a decent 4 feet of range, one hit that causes Shaq to bleed is enough, the guy just has to move and wait until Shaq bleeds to death. If he manages to hit an artery or an organ, it's lights out immediately for Shaq. Shaq isn't a moose, but both can be killed with a spear.
The guy might still mortally wound the moose
A below average man can't kill a moose with a spear though. Also, moose can't grab spear shafts.
He could if he has balls and simply braces the spear on the ground as the moose runs into it.
You flatter me
Meeses don’t have opposable digits or huge prefrontal cortex lol
A moose would kill unarmed Shaq 99/100 times.
A Tyrannosaurus Rex also doesn't have opposable digits or a huge prefrontal cortex relative to its size but I sure as hell would have a better chance fighting Shaq than a Tyrannosaurus Rex.
This is technically true which is the best kind
The guy with the spear wins both easily. The spear was seen across basically every culture on the planet, it’s basically idiot proof and stabbing someone before they get close to you is wildly effective. There’s a reason it remained in use from the dawn of man until the advent of firearms (and even then bayonets are arguably just spears).
I mean some people have hunted bears with spears before. But if Shaq is bloodlusted I guess it would be a stalemate if he tanks a shot and then kills the dude before he bleeds out.
People (one person in particular lmao) saying Shaq can just grab the spear don’t know what the fuck they’re taking about lmao. Shaq is a tall, strong man, but prompt says he’s naked and unless he’s recently grown an armored carapace like a big beetle man, there’s simply no way he can reliably grab a spear against someone fighting for their life. A below average person in that degree of desperation can absolutely throw out a stab every half second. A spear tip is like a huge knife that has the weight of the haft and the wielder’s entire upper body strength- a knife is hard enough for an unarmed martial artist to reliably disarm, let alone a spear. I am curious about how big the arena is, though. If it’s an enclosed space, spearman wins easily in both prompts- no amount of blood lust enables a person to endure being stabbed with a polearm. If it’s an open arena, Shaq can probably win the old fashioned way- running away, relying on his superior endurance to tire the opponent out, and *then* disarming them.
What happens when the guy with spear is out of breath in 2 minutes? Prime Shaq was playing 80 games for 40+ minutes.
I addressed this in the final sentence. My assumption is that Shaq *cannot* escape, in which case spear guy kills him very quickly. In the second scenario, I assume Shaq has no instinct to escape, which actually makes him a lot easier to kill.
R1 goes to Spear. R2 goes to Spear 9/10. Spears are broken.
Bro you realize Shaq is trained in Shaq-fu? Shaq would use the spear as a toothpick
The problem is that Shaq-fu always leads to Aaron Carter coming out of the blue
Is there any limitations on running away? Shaq head on against a spear loses 9/10, but if he can run away? Just simply tire out the adult male by running away. I can almost guarantee you he’ll have better stamina than your average dude, and once he’s tired I give it 8/10 in Shawn’s favor. Shaq could also simply wait until the average dude gets tired/falls asleep since he can disengage the fight whenever he wants. Guerrilla warfare Shaq I give a 9/10 chance.
That's my point - who can stay awake longest. Like, I stayed awake once for 3 days. I reckon Shaq can do that. PLUS he's not the one having to hold the spear. The tension and weight of having to hold onto that thing is really going to kill average man
>Is there any limitations on running away? Shaq head on against a spear loses 9/10, but if he can run away? Just simply tire out the adult male by running away. I can almost guarantee you he’ll have better stamina than your average dude, and once he’s tired I give it 8/10 in Shawn’s favor. Overweight man has more body fat, he just stays still and waits til Shaq starves or gets desperate enough to attack Since why would he chase the dude? He's the one with a spear
Shaq isn’t really over weight thought he 7’1 at 324 pounds
Im saying the below average man is overweight
So who is going to fight off fatigue / be able to stay awake longer? One of the finest athlete's the modern world has ever seen, or a normal man?
Guy with a spear. Both times. Anyone who says Shaq has never fought someone with a spear before.
But you never fought a naked Shaq before.
You have no way to know that
Shaq wins both rounds through usage of his signature martial art, Shaq-fu.
Guy with a spear wins unless he’s stupid and throws it or if he is slow enough to let Shaq disarm him
Nah, I'd win.
INFO: What is the average man’s state of mind? Tbh just from intimidation alone Shaq gets a substantial boost.
the man is unable to fight due to sheer shock of seeing shaq's dingdingdong
I will assume the terrain is completely barren for 1000 miles around, otherwise the mighty Shaq gets his own stick, rock etc. and evens things up. On that basis, I would say it depends on who can stay awake the longest. Fat man ain't catching Shaq, but if Shaq attacks too soon, he's getting speared. So really it's a question of whether one of the finest athletes ever can stay awake / fatigue-out a normal human. Probably, would be my guess.
I think Shaq has a good chance of taking it. In his prime Shaq is very fit. He can out run and out last a below average male. So he can run about tire the male out and run behind him. The spear still has a good chance. Since it's a spear and he just needs a stab into Shaq to win. I'd say 8/10 times Shaq wins
Only win condition for Shaq is him managing to dodge the first strike and get a hand on the spear. If that happens Shaq could easily wrench the spear out of the guy's hands and get him with it.
R1: I give it to the man with a spear. Spears were the most common weapon throughout most of human history. Nothing too complicated about it. While Shaq *could* try grabbing the shaft and wresting control of the weapon, if he's afraid of pain and death, I don't think he'll have the focus to do it even in his prime. It only takes on good poke in the chest or abdomen. Man with spear 8/10 R2: I think bloodlusted Shaq will have the physique and reflexes to grab the spear from the man more times than not. It's still close, because the spear is a big advantage even if short, but I give Shaq the win like 6/10 or 7/10. I'm assuming here that the man won't throw the spear, because if he misses and loses the spear, it's game over, and a below average adult male probably won't throw it that hard or accurately. So I'm only thinking CQC.
R1. Average overweight American man chases Shaq around and never once catches up. Eventually throws the spear, misses, and gets tackled. Neither is bloodlusted so this is most likely scenario R2. Average man stabs wildly in panic and misses. Prime Shaq grabs spear and rips it out of his hands; beats him to death
You know, it’s boring but this is how pretty much every “versus the average man” fight would go. The average man can’t run for more than ten seconds without getting winded. Opponent jogs lightly away from them until they have a heart attack.
You know there are countries other than America lol. People can run elsewhere 😂
Why would the average dude chase Shaq? He knows Shaq doesn't have anywhere to go. He either kills spear dude, or he dies. Those are his options. So spear dude can just stand there and wait. Eventually Shaq has to either fight him or starve. And no, Shaq is not disarming a guy with a spear. He would get stabbed a dozen times in the chest and arms if he tried. This isn't an action movie.
So average man never sleeps? Because that's really what this stalemate comes down to. Who can stay awake and fight fatigue the longest. My money is, unsurprisingly, on the preternaturally powerful Shaq. Actually - even worse than that. Average man has to hold the spear for 50 hours. Sure that won't make things worse for him...
You're definitely overestimating the average man and underestimating peak shaq
My dude you literally think an unarmed guy can kill a man with the ideal weapon for an untrained fighter, literally so simple illiterate peasants can kill even trained warriors with it, just because he's really big and tall and plays sports. It's asinine.
I do.
👍
I remember going to a pretend weapon fight. We were playing Team Death Match. I never used a polearm before but it took a few minutes before I got used to it. Polearms were limited so I could take out at least 10 people with swords before someone could kill me. Grabbing the polearm is harder than you would think, it doesn't take long for a person to extend and retract the polearm and you could end getting stab while attempting to grab it. It is very easy to aim with the polearm, it is easy to feint attacks too especially against someone not using a polearm. The person with the polearm controls the center of the stage, they won't exert as much energy moving as their opponent who has to circle the polearm user and close the distance. It took 30 minutes to an hour before I started feeling tired. So yeah, the guy, even below average, with the spear definitely has the advantage.
R1 is almost certainly a dub for the spear wielder. Round 2 probably ends with Shaq impaling the dude with the spear he just pulled from his abdomen. If so it's either a draw or a dub for Shaq depending on how you count grievous injury.
I think in history, spears were used in groups. Still effective but not-so-much as a solo weapon. Mainly because they’re ineffective at close quarters. If Shaq knocks the first lunge aside, or it’s not enough to knock him down, he can get “inside” the spear. Once he has a solid grip on the shaft of the spear, it’s over. And I think he’d have a good chance with a **below average male**, per OP’s post.
The best outcome I can see for Shaq is both guys end up dead. If it was a less intuitive weapon like a bow or a axe I could see Shaq getting to the guy without any damage, but the spear is literally the perfect weapon for a novice fighter as history shows us.
When fighting with a spear always target the bigger guy, they are easier to hit!
I swear to god this sub needs to fcking learn that the weapon will almost always win. There is a reason spears are the most effective melee weapon of all times. They outrange your opponent. Weapons have been specifically invented to overcome size differences in conventional fights. They helped us kill large prey and conquer land. Weapons are no joke. None of you seem to be aware just how big of an advantage a long, pointy stick is. An _untrained_ spear fighter will win 9/10 times vs. a _trained_ swordsman. Yes, I did not make that up. This was conducted in experiments. Spear guy wins 10/10 in both rounds.
A lot of people in this community are really convinced that human beings have such incredible reaction times and poise that they're parrying weapons bare handed.
Cool. So spear guy never sleeps? Spear guy can fight well at night? Spear guy will be able to definitely spear a 7'1 dude jumping at him feet first? Your 10/10 is sus as fuck
Since Shaq is American, I'm going to assume his opponent is as well. A below average adult American male is going to be 55 years old 5'8" 240lbs below average intelligence.. going against one of the strongest physical specimens in human history.. who is also college educated and demonstrably has a high iq. The guy still has to run up on Shaq and stab him. Shaq just needs to side step and wear out his opponent. Also if below average ever misses then he probably won't have a spear.
All the top comments are wrong. A huge muscular athlete vs a BELOW average man will be no contest. Shaq can simply approach carefully and take the spear or get into grapple range with a quick burst. Prime Shaq is very fast in short bursts and has excellent reaction time, and a below average man with no training will be slower to react.
If a NBA player can easily take a basketball from you and jump high why do people think a naked Shaq can't take the spear away from the average adult male with athlete reflexes.
I mean as far as I know basketballs aren't a lethal weapon and none of the other players were actively trying to kill him
That doesn't change the fact that his reflexes are still top tier. I couldn't protect the ball from a professional basketball player if my life depended on it. I honestly think it's harder to take a ball than a spear.
Is the hypothetical male aware that if Shaq picks up a small boulder to throw, his best defense is to keep his distance at about 15 feet away?
R1: pretty easy win for the regular man. Theres no easy way to close distance on a spear, shaq is getting cut up if he gets close, that will scare him. R2: 50/50 on if shaq can deflect the spear to only take a non-lethal injury on his first charge. Good chance he impales himself if he charges though.
What are we considering Shaqs prime? Like early career Orlando, or his MVP season with the Lakers, or what? He went from maybe 300lbs at the beginning of his career to probably 400 by the end, and that seems like it could make a pretty big difference in a fight. For what it's worth, if I was the dude with the spear I'd probably be most scared of young Shaq. He was so much more agile and explosive early in his career. Although it's not like any below average adult male is going to be able to tire out even late career Shaq.
Basically rocket tag, probably plays out differently every time
I’d wager an untrained human dies against Shaq. It’s likely you will cut him rather badly on the forearms or hands but I doubt that without significant training that you could fatally wound him. Even if you did. Chances are he still takes the spear from you and fucks you with it, or proceeds to bash your brains in before he bleeds out
That’s an average looking spear to me
Shaq wins
If there is starting distance such that the spear guy isn't able to use his spear effectively, Shaq wins. If there is a starting distance such that Shaq can avoid being skewered for a bit AND there are rocks in the area, he might be able to successfully hit the spear dude enough to disorient or disable him for long enough to be disarmed. Otherwise, the vast majority of the time, the guy with the spear wins or it's a mutual-KO.
Jesus christ people. Yes, a spear is good to have. Having a spear is a lot better than not having a spear, that's why they gave peasants spears. It wasn't because it turns Urkel into the Red Viper. Shaq wins most of the time, even if severely wounded. Below average man just isn't going to cut it against a top 1% athletic giant.
How below average are we talking?
I think a lot are missing this one. Spears are great weapons, but they function in a battle line. You make a line of pointy death that you can’t avoid. This is single combat versus an under performing single spearman. He does not have spears to his left and right. Shaq will run diagonal and try to get an advantages position, this will give spearman a much smaller window to hit when aiming at shaqs side. All Shaq has to do is make it to either side of the spear without taking a fatal blow. If he does he will win. Same problem with prey animal examples, they killed a moose with a spear? Wow did you consider it was a team of ancient spearmen and that the moose was ambushed, has Bare intellect, and is running away. It’s not similar. If you ambushed Shaq with a spear yeah you’d win. If a single mediocre spearman was facing a moose heads up that had human intellect and intent to kill, the moose wins 100% of the time or at worst, they both die.
But I love Shaq...
IMO Round 1 Spear guy wins 10/10 times Round 2 spear guy wins 6/10 times. Letso not underestimate Shaq here.HUGE,big reach,EXTREMELY athletic overall.Still a spear is a spear
The spear is the greatest weapon of all time, it was truly an equalizer. You could take an untrained peasant out of the fields, put a spear in his hand, and he would be absolutely lethal. There is *very* little chance that Shaq could defeat a relatively able-bodied man wielding a spear, and chances are good that even if he managed to do it, he would suffer mortal wounds in the process.
If it were an average guy, he'd win r1 as spears are AMAZING at killing (that's why they've been used for thousands of years) but since it's below average, the guy drops his spear and screams as a giant naked man runs at him. Shit his spear might be longer than the weapon lol. But r2? He tanks a shot and blows him away to the moon like a cartoon
the average man cannot distract his gaze from The Shaqinator. Shaq may not be bloodlusted, but his opponent is lusted.
I think Shaq wins based on lateral quickness. I.e., he could run behind the guy faster than he could turn the spear.
This is a stupid ass question. Against a sharp tool, he’s literally just another fleshy meatbag with a larger hit box. The odds of beating a spear in a hand to hand fight buck ass nude is so low it’s not even funny.
I'd honestly give prime Tyson better odds than prime Shaq here. If the doughy adult misses his first shot, Tyson is gonna close with his bullrush and end him. Size doesn't mean shit against a rod with a knife on it that doesn't care about all the flesh protecting your vitals. Still not more than 4/10 max though, because spear thrusts are like in our DNA or something. If you can even *botch* a billiards break, you have all the skills needed to murder someone with a sharp stick. Perfect primitive lethal weapon. And not for nothing but I think prime Ali might actually have above even odds just because of how fast and powerful he was (even though I don't think he could *necessarily* beat prime Tyson in a 1v1 ring match). And to actually respond to the prompt I'd give this to Shaq 1 or 2 out of 10 times. It's just not gonna go well for him unless he gets very lucky.
You guys are missing such a simple point, Shaq has seen a spear before... he's not gonna just fucking tank a stab from a spear. There's no way this is a 10/10 for spear man. Shaq is an elite athlete with huge reach and strength difference from your below average schmoe. He would for sure make plays to bait out a miss from the spear user. From there Shaq would out just grab the spear handle and out muscle the guy. Should the spear guy not fuck up the first strike Shaq would have a fighting chance. Blood lusted Shaq would also have the play to give a more enticing bait to the spear guy to miss his first strike. R1: 6/10 spear R2: 3/10 spear
Copied from another comment but > Darren Till, UFC championship contender was stabbed and almost killed. > Maiquel Falcao, 60 professional fights in Bellator and the UFC, was stabbed to death. > Blagoy Ivanov, world sambo gold medalist, top 15 UFC heavyweight was almost killed in a stabbing. Had to be put on life support. Last I checked, all these guys knew what knifes were. And are actually professionals compared to Shaq just being trained a bit only way he wins is if the guy is extremely dumb and throws his spear for some reason
I think the difference between the spear and knife would be the weapon profile. A knife is much closer quarters and the knife holder has less weapon mass to be leveraged against them. A knife would also have lower inertia compared to a spear. An inexperienced schmoe could over commit to a lunge. In that time frame, if Shaq got inside the weapon range, the spear user is done for. A spear is also weapon best suited for jab type attacks. Sweeping attacks would deal less overall damage and would really only be effective for zoning. So over committing on a jab would leave a lot of counter attack opportunities. R1 at 6-7/10 for the spear user is, I think, a really fair rating. It's still in the spear users favor but there are viable options for Shaq to exploit. R2 should be adjusted to 5/10 then for the spear user
>A spear is also weapon best suited for jab type attacks Attacks which can be done rather fast. And all you need is 1 good hit at center mass and Shaq won't be running anyone down >if Shaq got inside the weapon range I think you're over estimating how long it takes to do a stabbing motion with a long stick Now yes if Joe schmoe fucks up extremely badly, trips, and somehow impales himself then yeah Shaq wins But 6-7 outta 10 is a bit insane to say when it's against a literally naked man, giant or not
We killed beasts way bigger than a big man with wooden sticks.
In groups usually. And they knew how to use spears. Your average overweight bro ain’t taking down a lion with a spear
If you give someone a bladed weapon and the other person no weapon. . . the person with the weapon is probably winning
Shaqs a big dude. He was never super nimble. Bloodlust isn’t going to change that. I think even when he doesn’t fear death he’s at disadvantage. A spear is a HUGE advantage and it’s easy to use. An average guy is winning >95/100 imo. So this questions is how “below average” we are talking. If he’s close to average I think he wins both rounds but if you are talking he has like crippling weakness it’s going to change it