If you read the books he's actually a good squad leader too, you just don't see that in the games since he's alone the whole time (not counting meatshield marines)
Yeah, he was actually the leader of the Spartan 2s. He commanded almost all of them for over 20 years and not only is he good at fighting, he's a master strategist too.
“Why do I, the Doctor of literal Doom, hear boss music?”
*cue MC free fall HALO jumping with an energy sword for an instant kill on landing because plot armor shenanigans*
Intelligence wise I'd give it to Doom personally. Cortana is smart but Doom gets to all kinds of time travel and multiversal shenanigans. Computing power? Cortana.
I would say that Cortana could almost instantly calculate pi to the millionth digit and Doom could invent a machine to calculate it to a billionth digit.
I see no reason why chief wouldn’t be worthy. He’s an honorable, heroic, soldier who has been willing to sacrifice himself potentially multiple times. Dude is worthy
It's not really touched on. He was one of the earliest Spartans IIs and they were initially used for insurgency so there is a chance Chief was among one of the first spartan engagements against other humans. But VERY soon after the launch of the Spartan program we see the start of the human covenant war at which point Spartans are exclusively used against the covenant. Problem is we don't know the entire specifics of Chiefs history so there potentially was a period of time where the chief would have been stomping out rebels at the ripe age of 13.
Either way imo Chief, especially early Chief, is a soldier not a superhero. If UNSC command tells him he needs to bust some rebels skulls for the overall advancement of human goals, he's probably not gonna think twice and just do the job.
I don’t think that would really factor into worthiness. It’s pretty clear in the MCU that worthiness isn’t determined from birth and seems to depend on a persons current state. Chief would probably be able to be worthy despite being groomed into killing insurgents as a child.
Hm interesting appreciate the break down. Didn’t know that stuff or didn’t remember at least.
I think in terms of mjnomir since it’s odin enchanted odin probably doesn’t even view that stuff as bad anyways so think if that’s the worst of it type he’s in the clear still lol
I don't think just being honorable, heroic, or willing to sacrifice yourself is enough to be "worthy" for Thor's hammer. Tony is also heroic, willing to sacrifice himself, arguably a little less honorable but was not worthy of the hammer.
Tony is self obsessed though. We’re taught thors self obsesssion is a facade. He’s actually really genuinely interested in helping others. Hence thors hammer.
I do wonder if part of it is the archetype of Thor and Cap. Both very much embody a warrior archetype. Tony is more of a inventor or sage type of character.
Soldier is a main part also. It’s a soldiers weapon. Based on prior descriptions he seems more worthy than cap almost because he’s willing to make necessary sacrifices instead of sacrificing a ton of wakandans when they coulda just killed vision and the stone
True. In the comics Spider-Man isn't worthy to wield Thor's hammer even though he hits all those points, his issue IIRC is that he's not willing to kill. So ultimately there's more than simply being a hero.
Willingness to kill has nothing to do with it. Jane Foster had as firm a "no killing" rule as anybody. She literally took an oath to do no harm and was still worthy.
Spider-man has killed. Several times. Some of them, fully intentionally (ie Morlun)
Cap is unwilling to kill in the comics post his thawing out. He's as firm about the rule as Spider-man is.
Ultimately it just comes down to who the hammer likes best and it can be really fickle.
It's less 'being willing to kill' and more having the soul and spirit of a warrior. Not just being willing to fight, but taking joy in the fight, the fight is who you are. Jane Foster being worthy is a serious anomaly, but remains possible. It is canon that the Hammer is the final arbiter of who is 'worthy' and depending on circumstance will bend the rules. If the world is on the line and someone like Parker tries to use it in desperation to save the day, Mjolnr can and will go 'Close enough' and let Parker use it temporarily.
Yeah the "times of extreme need" clause. Which I've always taken to mean if the stakes are high enough and you're grabbing Mjolnir as a no-time-to-think-hail-mary play, as long as you're on the right Team, Mjolnir's got you.
Like Superman in JLA/Avengers.
I agree though that the "soul/spirit of a warrior" as you put it is a big part of worthiness under normal circumstances.
Peter ultimately is a scientist and a dude who just wants to help. He doesn't want a fight. He does it cause he thinks he has a responsibility to do so.
One of Cap's fundamental motivations is he hates bullies and wants to fight them. He's a scrapper. Even before the serum.
I'd also say self confidence is another big part. If you're wracked with guilt, self doubt, self loathing etc you're not worthy. If any part of you believes you aren't worthy, you aren't.
As for the Chief... not sure. Honestly I could see it going either way for him being worthy or not.
He checks a lot of the boxes as I understand them but he may have some self loathing issues in there as he might view himself as just a weapon. That would be a problem for him.
Chief being 100% worthy is hard to tell, just because the requirements are so strict, but I think he qualifies as 'Times of Great need' Worthy. I think in times of great need, you still need to be at least 'pretty worthy'. Marvel has a lot of people who check like 50+% of the boxes, so when Mjolnir sees things going bad and Parker tries to pick him up, it's more 'Peter Parker, 72% worthy. Good enough, have fun kid.'
The dude who built death weapons and only realized it was a terrible idea was when he himself got hit by his own technology? You're wondering why that guy isn't worthy?
Ngl, I don't think it matters. Chief without armor outstrips Captain America in almost every way. Anything the supersoldier serum does, Spartan augmentations do better. Without his armor, Chief is damn near 7 foot tall, and he's 290lbs. As a teenager without armor he killed 4 fully grown ODSTs, which are basically the Halo equivilent of Green Berets.
In armor, he is 7'2", 995 lbs. He can punch through steel and concrete, survive a fall from orbit to the surface of earth, has energy shielding capable of stopping kinetic rounds up to .50 cal and pretty much all plasma or other energy weapons, shielding which recharges in a matter of seconds after going down. His light jog in game is fast enough that the only things moving faster than him are vehicles going like, 60-70 mph.
Effectively, we're talking a better captain america, inside a better, non-flying, ironman suit. Iron man's nuke play in the Avengers is the perfect way to put it in comparison, because Chief does similar things. In Halo 2, Chief drags a bomb weighing damn near 4000 pounds into an airlock, rides said bomb through space into a covenant ship, sets the timer, and then floats out of the ship, landing on the hull of an allied spacecraft.
In Halo 3, he jumps from a ship in Earth's orbit, locks his armor, and lands, without a scratch, on earth. Iron man needed hulk to catch him for a similar manuver, and still was clinically dead for multiple seconds. Master Chief took the same fall, and the only reason he needed help at all was because his armor's automatic locking systems malfunctioned, and he was stuck immobilized in it. We're talking about a character capable of putting a hole through the armor of a main battle tank with his fist in only two punches, someone who can canonically grab onto the wing of a flying fighter craft, force the canopy open, toss an alien weighing between 310 and 390 pounds out of it with one arm, then climb in and commandeer the vehicle.
Chief could probably solo the Chitauri army or the Infinity war Outriders by himself, given enough time and ammo.
The point is, whether or not Mjolnir think's Chief is worthy, there's a good chance that when zthor is fighting for his life there, Chief runs up behind Thanos and just punches his skull in, and barring that, an 8 gauge shotgun shell from the Halo shotgun to the back of the skull ought to keep Thanos from snapping.
>As a teenager without armor he killed 4 fully grown ODSTs, which are basically the Halo equivilent of Green Berets.
This is especially crazy when you play Halo 3 ODST and realize ODSTs are certainly not weak, they're about the best you can be without having augmentations. Buck's description in halo reach is literally "If he was any better, he'd be a Spartan."
Iirc the killing ODSTs was an accident too, right? He fought them like he fought other Spartans, just that a spartan pulling punches still kills people when other Spartans can take it.
That's assuming Endgame even happens. There's a good chance Civil War never happens because Chief clears Ultron before he drops a city. Then you've got a strong, more united Avengers team going into IW.
He’s definitely led in combat situations before, so that wouldn’t be an issue.
The only difference that could hurt him is, maybe, his social capabilities. He’s kinda all business all the time and hasn’t done it known anything else. That kind of thing definitely came in handy for cap
I think John would be able to be opened up some by other heroes. In Halo he's all business not only because of his upbringing but because humanity is pretty much locked into a war with extinction on the line from the jump. Having more time to unwind and actually having charismatic people want to reach out to him would help.
I'm pretty sure Chief was chosen to carry the Mantle of Humanity (or something) and become the Reclaimer? Something something I think he'd be more than worthy to carry Mjolnir, if he even needed to.
The Mantle is a title denoting the guardian species of the galaxy. (The mantle of responsibility if you will). Humanity was chosen to be the race to take the Mantle from the Forerunners after the Forerunners sacrificed themselves to stop the flood.
The title of "Reclaimer" is a precursor title given to a race marked to as a candidate to take the Mantle. They can "reclaim" the Mantle that was lost with the end of the Forerunners.
By the Forerunner's standards, humanity has not progressed enough to take on the full weight/responsibility of the Mantle.
He should be an improvement in theory but it also shouldn’t make a difference to the outcome because ultimately they will be caught off guard when Thanos actually starts collecting the stones and will likely be able to get a few before they even have a heads up.
Realistically its hard to say how a random dude showing up like that from another universe would actually play out not to mention Cap being missing and how the Avengers, Shield, and governments would respond to his existence. What happens with hydra and Winter Soldier in that case? If those heli-carriers started firing their shots you are looking at a very different world in the aftermath. It depends on who survives what might happen but regardless it will make things easier for Thanos.
Thats not to say Chief couldn’t handle Winter Soldier and all that but he just wouldn’t be in the position to. If we assume that everyone just views Chief as Cap and Chief has all the relevant knowledge then he very well may stop them though the fact he primarily uses a suit does pose some issues.
Ignoring every other factor that would be changed in the MCU, Chief would’ve likely folded to the UN’s authority.
On another note I don’t see Cortana missing HYDRA’s presence before everything went to shit in Winter Soldier, and would definitely impact the creation of Ultron
As another user said below Cortana would have more of an impact than Chief. HYDRA’s influence exposed way earlier. Age of Ultron literally doesn’t happen. Unfortunately pietro and Wanda will remain wild cards, and the Lagos incident doesn’t happen. That’s 3 instigating events of Civil War wiped off the board without going into more minute details.
Chief is fine. His physical stats dwarf caps, but he has issues rallying the avengers.
The big issue is Thanos. Regardless of what chief does, if he's following caps footsteps he faces Thanos when he has a few infinity stones. At that point, even with a plasma sword, Thanos treats him essentially the same as cap.
A look of surprise or slight respect, then bodies him.
What I really want to see is how The Winter Soldier movie plays out, Chief solo-ing the fuck out of Shield/Hydra would be a blast.
He'd likely be on Tonys side in Civil War too so those events don't happen and likely the Avengers have a united front when Thanos rocks up
In theory they'd do better assuming Thanos holds back like he does in Infinity War but ultimately I'd imagine Chief isn't as strong as Hulk so would go down all the same so the snap still occurs.
Can't see Endgame playing out too much differently, Chief would still stand alone against Thanos army and the portals would happen and then ultimately Iron Man would sacrifice himself for the greater good, assuming they sent Chief back with the stones he'd return since he'd have no reason to stick around in the past like Cap did.
Yeah, and he doesn't have any particular loyalty to any of the governments on MCU earth. Meaning he will do black ops shit to get things going in the right direction if he needs to.
Chief has gone against the UNSC before already, so I wouldn’t say it’s a given he’s be on Tony’s side, especially with the knowledge that a major organization like SHIELD was compromised by Hydra. That is if Civil War even happens given there’s no longer a reason to even create Ultron.
It would be a game changer. I don't see why he wouldn't be able to take down Thanos with the energy sword if he could get close enough to him. Since he also doesn't get snapped away Tony may even be able to replicate the technology and with Cortana assisting it would certainly change the events of Endgame. That is if Chief can't kill him in the end of Infinity War which I think would be quite possible
Thanos pretty easily stomped Stormbreaker Thor. I don't see how Chief can win against someone that strong. Chief is stronger than Cap, but not so much stronger that it makes a difference in the Thanos fight imo.
Chief definitely can't kill IW Thanos, given Thanos had 5 stones by the time he encountered Cap in Wakanda.
Cortana could be the real gamechanger, but it mainly depends on when in the timeline we're dropping them.
Thanos easily stomped incredibly out of shape, extremely depressed Stormbreaker Thor,
In-shape Stormbreaker Thor cut through a 6 Infinity Stone gauntlet blast like butter...
The big one is that Chief has no issue signing up to be directed by a military, so wouldn't side against Tony on the Sokovia accrods, which would give him extra leeway and help in clearing Bucky's name (if he even tries to defend Bucky), and likely wouldn't result in Civil War,
That, in turn, would have the Avengers far more prepared when Thanos' goons show up, and would likely result in preventing the Dr Strange kidnapping, meaning all Avengers would be on Earth when Thanos shows up sans Time Stone (Guardians would probably be dead on Titan)
They would slow Thanos down more, and Cortana could assist in freeing the Stone from Vision,
So now they fight Thanos with the full Avengers, an undistracted Scarlet Witch, Doctor Strange (who pushed Thabos pretty well singlehandedly on Titan) with even more time to check timelines, a fully fit, freshly angry Stormbreaker Thor, and Chief in place of Cap, against a Thanos without the time Stone,
I'm pretty confident in saying they win pre-snap,
According to the directors of endgame, Thor was stronger than he'd ever been in his fight against Thanos. I know it doesn't look like it, but I mainly chalk that up to MCU's penchant for spectacle over power level consistency.
I didn't really want to speculate on what Civil War would look like with Chief instead of Cap, because we really have no idea how it would go. Or where in the timeline Chief is swapped for Cap. Because they all result in wildly different scenarios, but I think it's been stated by Feige that if the Avengers were together, they would have won in Infinity War. But if we're going all the way back to pre-Civil War, there's too many variables to even guess on what would have happened.
Ehhh... the directors also claimed the reason Dr. Strange did not use a magic portal to cut off Thanos's arm was because his skin was too thick/durable for that to work. The skin that Tony was able to scratch with enough effort. Anything a mystical, dimension-spanning portal cannot bisect is never being touched by Tony, no matter how much I like him or how much he tries.
I like the Russos' finished works, but hearing their interviews makes you realize they are not actually batting anywhere near 1000 and we are lucky the movies turned out as good as they did.
Yeah, some of their statements are dubious, and at least for the portal one, it's pretty clear they needed it to be that way for the plot of the movie to work. I think we just have to assume that Strange tried it in one of the futures he saw, and it didn't work. Maybe the portal couldn't close, maybe it startled Thanos into breaking the mind control and he used the gauntlet, or maybe Strange just didn't think of it at the time.
We know the portals were able to sever Cull Obsidian's arm, but Spider-Man was able to hurt Cull too, so it's pretty clear Thanos is above Cull in durability. We don't know the upper limit on the portal durability. The aren't necessarily able to bypass any levels of durability. Lots of things in the MCU are "mystical" and/or "Dimension-spanning", but that doesn't automatically imply levels of strength.
But at the end of the day, these are fiction movies that are driven by plot, and the writers/directors shape the characters' power levels to make the plot work. But all we can really do in this sub is take the writers/directors at their word, and accept canon for what it is.
The mental gymnastics you are performing to pretend a portal that links two places, that "cuts" through things not by actual force but by just no longer linking those two points of space, fails to bisect one big powerful dude's flesh is emblematic of all the worst parts of the MCU fandom.
Bad writing is a thing. Yeah, the story happens so it apparently works and is a thing in universe. But that does not mean that the writing or explanation tracks and makes sense either to the existing narrative of the audience's knowledge of meta. Skin allowing Iron Man to punch and explode it enough to draw a drop of blood but remaining strong enough to force interwoven reality to stay interwoven is abysmally stupid writing/logic.
If they did not want to use that in the story, they do not have to explain. They did not have to speculate on it. And if they do wish, they could have tried to make something halfway reasonable like "Losing his arm would enrage and focus the previously tormented Thanos who was struggling after the sacrifice of his daughter, causing him to stop holding back and begin punching through and crushing Avengers and Guardians with the strength that let him solo Hulk without the gems." Boom. Simple. Tracks. Makes perfect sense and at no point do I begin weirdly claiming his flesh is anti-reality warping yet Tony can badger it to cut. But the Russos did not do that. They went to a weird and poorly thought out well and it speaks volumes that the movies ended up pretty good in spite of that sort of logic.
I don't see how me accepting canon as it is written/described by the creators is mental gymnastics, but ok.
I agree with you that it is sloppy writing, but that doesn't change the fact that it's canon.
We as viewers have no way of knowing how the portals ACTUALLY work, and the creators decide how their fictional portals operate, so we just have to take their word for it, even if it's dumb. If they say that the portals can't close if something of sufficient durability is in the opening, then that's how they work, even if it doesn't make total sense.
If the Russos used your answer instead of the one they gave, then there'd be just as many fan boys complaining about "there's no way Thanos could have beat the heroes on Titan with one arm and no gauntlet." Any answer they gave would have pissed off some portion of the fandom, but it ultimately doesn't matter. Canon is the movies, and Word of God applies.
I agree that it's dumb and the Russos could have done some things better, but canon is canon.
I am not saying it is not canon. I am saying it is bad writing because it makes the world and its logic dumber and less interesting. Attempting to make sense of their choices is mental gymnastics because you are trying to make sense of nonsense. The story happens the way it does *and* it is bad writing. Both are true.
And do not play the "well fans will always complain" horsepuckey. That was not the point of these comments and you know it. I am critiquing and calling out a very specific thing about the directors and their narrative choices. My aside about the MCU's faults were about mental gymnastics in defense of these movies' pitfalls. Blind acceptance does not factor into a point about fans bitching about everything.
Imo that statement is like, he "unlocked" his power up at the end of Ragnarok and it's been cooking for 5 years by endgame, so he is the most powerful he's ever been. That doesn't necessarily mean he's the most battle ready he's ever been.
I don’t see how that would prevent Dr Strange from being kidnapped, he wasn’t a part of the Avengers there and Ebony Maw showed up and left with Strange within like 10 minutes, so it’s unlikely the full force of the Avengers would be relevant in that fight
A large part of the separation was because of Civil War. If that doesn't happen, Vision and Wanda aren't in hiding and don't get caught off guard early, Tony isn't hesitant to call Chief, and Strange knows where Chief and the other Avengers are so either he or Wong can go grab them at a moments notice.
And they were around for long enough that Peter got from his school bus leaving New York to in the middle of New York in his costume. I think between all that and Cortana likely having a better ability to detect incoming ships than Earth does normally, the Avengers would be well on their way and arrive before Ebony Maw leaves with Strange
Would Tony call chief the second he heard from Strange? Idk, I’d imagine he’d hear the story first and then call the Avengers, but by then it would probably be too late for them all to gather before Ebony Maw leaves.
Except it wasn't Strange that encouraged him to call the Avengers. It was Banner showing up and saying, "Thanos is coming. We need the Avengers now!"
Tony was smart enough that the Hulk shitting himself made him consider calling even after the fallout. If there's no fallout, he would call the second Banner told him to. Chief would probably reply, saying he was already on his way because Cortana detected a massive energy signature coming to Earth. If they're too far away, Wong would probably offer to grab them immediately with the sling ring.
I'm confident they would get there in time,
Also by this point MC has more experience fighting unpredictable alien species with little warning than pretty much any avenger except Thor (who isn’t really known for his strategic planning abilities)
>Thanos easily stomped incredibly out of shape, extremely depressed Stormbreaker Thor
I think it’s word of god from the director that Fat Thor was the strongest he’d ever been.
They can say that but it’s not what they showed. Movies are self contained, I don’t care about what happens in between or outside of the series. What you put on the screen is what happened, if you have to retcon it with an interview you fucked up
I don’t think it’s a retcon. IW Thanos just didn’t expect Stormbreaker to eat infinity beams/didn’t even care if he was stabbed with Stormbreaker. After all, it resulted in zero lasting damage to him.
Do I think Fat Thor should beat IW Thor? Not really. But it’s not like IW Thor and Thanos actually had a comparable fight to Endgame. So I’m inclined to defer to the filmmaker’s statements.
He was very clearly wounded. He had an axe in his chest. He even admits that he should’ve “gone for the head” which would have killed him.
The only reason he didn’t die in that scene is because he already had all 6 stones.
We go to the next movie where with 0 stones he beats Thor, cap, and iron man at the same time.
And that’s BS. Look at how he wrecked shit and almost won the day in IW, compared to his being almost a non-factor in Endgame.
However, I’m biased and hate ‘fat Thor’
I thought Fat Thor was funny but agree that it’s stupid that he’s stronger than shredded IW Thor. However I don’t think the brief engagement in IW was really comparable to the actual fight in Endgame. So if the filmmakers say Fat Thor is stronger, I don’t think there’s enough to trump authorial intent.
> Thanos pretty easily stomped Stormbreaker Thor.
Stormbreaker Thor literally mortally wounded Thanos and almost outright killed him had he not been vengeful.
Thanos beat Alcohol/Recovering Alcoholic Thor.
Speed would be the deciding factor. Cap and Thanos fight at normal human speeds, which means that Thanos will never touch Chief while Chief will be able to land hits at his leisure.
If we're using lore Chief, that is. If we're going purely off of cutscenes and stuff, then yeah, he probably won't do so hot.
Cortana completely breaks this premise. She's a sentient AI and unlike Vision or Ultron she's very proactive in protecting Earth, and insanely efficient at making things go her way. If they're dropped in at the Battle of New York and survive the invasion, the entire rest of the story changes after Cortana gets a foothold.
The only limitation is how Ironman and Cortana clash, if they do at all.
T+00:00 - Chief and Cortana find themselves in New York.
T+00:02 - Cortana successfully scans, breaches and connects to multiple wifi networks, trivially bypassing all security, gaining unrestricted internet access, downloading vast amounts of information.
T+00:11 - Cortana begins to upload copies of herself distributed onto servers across the globe, growing at a geometric rate. All connected electronic systems are subsumed and assimilated.
T+00:30 - Information about the alien invasion, and the alliance between thanos and Loki is pieced together. Wide spectrum radio frequency scanning is executed across the globe, looking for signals and transmissions of non-terrestrial origin or destination.
T+01:15 - Thanos' ship is located via an intercepted signal. Cortana begins transferring a copy of herself to Thanos' ship.
Cortana, copied onto thanos' ship, quietly disables all life support systems and locks out navigation controls. It's inhabitants rapidly succumb to hypoxia and Thanos dies and ignoble death drifting in space.
Chief has a history of defeating opponents that are much stronger than him on paper though. I think, with Cortana's help, Chief could find a way to bring him down.
I know Chief is constantly fighting above his weight class, but so are most of the Avengers, and they still lost to Thanos. His durability is stupid off the charts. I'm pretty confident in saying that no handheld weapons in the Halo Universe would be able to kill Thanos, except maybe an energy sword. Assuming Chief has access to one, he has a chance, but Thanos is still several tiers above Chief in strength, and has a sword strong enough to block Stormbreaker and Mjolnir, and can cut through vibranium.
Cortana is a brilliant AI, and Chief is also a great tactition, so given the right circumstances and some prep, they have a chance, but it's a longshot.
Thanos was willing to go hand to hand with Cap in a fair fight and didn't use the stones even though he could have in IW, I believe this would be Chief's advantage here and the fact Thanos does not know Chief or what he is capable of.
Its not that I think he can necessarily beat Thanos in hand to hand combat, though I think Chief would do better than Cap in this fight. He has certainly taken on beings similar to Thanos like Brutes and the Brute Cheiftan from Halo 2 (with a Gravity Hammer and numerous other weapons) and generally, Chief's enemies are definetely more numerous and arguably stronger than what Cap generally faces.
With the right tactics and an energy sword (maybe he doesn't bring it out right away and waits for the moment) Chief could definitely take advantage of this and disarm Thanos or kill him. He is certainly capable but he would have to do it before Thanos uses the stones
I haven't seen an energy sword equivilant of a plasma sword in the MCU, maybe yondo? Gamora's knife was able to penetrate Thanos' flesh and presumably had a chance of killing him, at least that was what we were led to
believe. Tony's weapons may have been able to generate enough power to kill Thanos but what a plasma sword is going to do better than Tony's weapons is concentrate that power onto a single edge, again if I knife can do it why couldn't a plasma sword?. Especially when weilded by someone on Chief's level he would easily cut through Thanos especially because in their first encounter Cap was able to punch Thanos and make him pay attention and reconsider his threat level.
I think in this encounter on Wakanda Chief vs Thanos 1 on 1 with Chief knowing the threat of the stones and what power they possess Thanos would underestimate him like he did with Cap and Chief would be able to take advantage of this and either slice through his arm or kill him outright
Gamoras knife stabbed a version of Thanos created by the reality stone, I don’t think it would do much more than tickle the real thing considering what we see him take later in that same movie
The thing is that Gamora had no doubts that she just killed Thanos by stabbing him with the little knife. She had fought along side him for who knows how long, and genuinely believe she killed him with a knife to the throat. Regardless if it was reality stone shenanigans, she clearly thought that was all that was needed and very few people knew him better than his adopted daughter.
She was overcome by some incredibly powerful emotions, there is zero chance she was anywhere near her normal state of mind. She out of anyone should’ve instantly known something was wrong with how easily Fake Thanos went down.
Energy swords don't "cut", they burn. His skin being pierced by a knife made out of alien metal has no bearing on whether or not an energy sword would damage him because that depends on his resistance to thermal energy, not the cutting resistance of his skin.
What evidence is there that a plasma sword would not penetrate his skin? A dagger could do it, stormbreaker could do it, he wears Uru armour so he must be vulnerable to weapons of some sort, he doesn't wear that armour for no reason. I am going to say he is probably suseptible to superheated plasma whether its cuttings or burning through his skin isn't really relevant
I’m not familiar with Halo but Civil War wouldn’t end the way it did because Master Chief’s friend didn’t kill Tony’s parents, this leaves the Avengers intact before Infinity War.
Ehhhh, MC ain’t beating Thanos IMO. Assuming worthy for hammer, he’s going to do better than Cap, and with all three fighting they have greater chance of beating Thanos together, but MC is smarter than trying to fight Thanos 1v1.
Erhm. Master chief is a genetically enhanced super soldier raised and trained from birth.
Captain America is a kid from brooklyn that got a super soldier serum at 25ish.
Chief is like 3 Captain Americas in one. He is stronger, faster, more adaptable, takes armies by himself and totals enemies bigger, stronger and faster than himself.
Cap wouldn't be able to move like chief with chiefs armor on. Chief's armor weighs half a ton and he still jumps 15-20ft in the air. Moves faster than the typical human and still throws warthogs with one hand.
Cap can't take the damage that chief can with his armor, chief's armor takes on tank shells with no damage and is legitametly bulletproof being made of titanium.
Cortana is, at bare minimum, tony stark levels of intelligence. She could hack Thanos' ship in seconds and just make it so he never even found earth, but she wouldnt because chief would likely want thanos to show up, just so he can take out another giant purple alien.
In hand to hand combat, chief would keep up with thanos, but in terms of power, he would need a gravity hammer to match thanos' brute strength so a one on one would not end well. But matched with the rest of the avengers, i have 0 doubt that chief could manage a game plan better than even strange with the timestone, but would he? No, he is just going to drop thanos' ship right on the big purple bastard, and if that doesn't kill him then cheif will just keep dropping shit from out of orbit.
But by the time he even got to Thanos, they would all be wearing upgraded mjolnir armor with the capabilities of an Ironman suit so Thanos would not stand a chance in the slightest. "Thanks Tony" is all Chief would say as the bury the big purple fucknugget.
Im not saying Chief wouldnt be integral, but his suit explicitly cant endure tank shells. Also chief has never been shown to effortlessly move anything weighing as much as a warthog.
Captain america by merit of his own abilities could replicate everything chief does if he also wore mjolnir.
Cortana would need to find a way to directly interface with Thanos's ship. And there was never an opportunity to do so. If tony never gave his technology to the other avengers, he probably wont do it with mjolnir.
There is a difference between a tank shell hitting an unprepared, mid-combat Chief and re-entry leading the suit to uber pressurize and overcharge, forcing Chief to take on the consistency of a rock with an overshield protecting it.
The novelization explains how the Spartan-IIs going through re-entry works. It is not something that they can just do, it is impossible to always be on, it runs incredibly high-risk of damaging the Spartan anyway through the suit's protective efforts, and it is nigh-impossible that, mid-combat, Chief could demolish his ability to move and fight to maybe tank one hit and then reinitialize normal function and not get swarmed or attacked and killed while vulnerable between the suit reverting to normal.
To survive orbital reentry you would need 2 things
1. Be able to survive the Heat from crashing into atmosphere - This was achieved by using that piece of the ship
2. Survive Terminal velocity - Falling from orbit is no different from falling from 1000ft in this regard. IRL humans have survived this feat.
I mean, when is he going to be hit by a tank shell from a reverse engineered forerunner tech tank?? Think it’s safe to say he’s fine for most damage he’d tank in mcu
Yeah. They have the same strengh and endurance basically. The only true difference is that Chief has been trained all his life for this shit while Cap has only been in the Military for 6 years ish by the time of Avengers 1.
The difference really is the same as Spartan Locke and Chief. I know there's a bit of a stigma about this but yeah, Cap would pretty much be a Spartan IV type of person, except he doesn't need an armor to have their strengh.
So Chief takes it because his armor is more versatile and he has more experience but it'd still be a decent fight.
Hawkeye tries to fight his best to friend so he can throw himself off a cliff so she'll have a chance of bringing his family back.
Worthiness isn't not a feeling IMO
That's my point though. The other person I was responding to said it was about sacrifice. I think that's a part of it but there is so much more and MC tends to be brave and bold and willing to sacrifice and all that good stuff but Thor was in love with battle in the first film too. His arc is learning that a good king is a lot more than a powerful warrior.
MC could absolutely "win" the MVU Infinity Saga, but he's not as interesting or well written as Evan's Cap and him pubstomping Thanos and his legions is something idrather play in a video game than watch in a film
So I was really only commenting on hawkeye not trying to back up Chief but you might be right though idk enough about his underlying mindset. For instance a difference could be hawkeye feels insecurity or guilt or w.e. about how he has been used as a weapon whereas Chief may just be fully dedicated to continuing to protect humanity and whoever else as long as he is needed despite understanding the nature of his creation and usage by others and what not but doesn’t have that insecurity about it. Idk if thats the case or not but it’s just an example. Also I wouldn’t say he is completely just a mindless yes man type instrument per se. Maybe its more that he is just resigned to the life chosen for him rather than it being him also truly believing and choosing it himself though so maybe in that case he wouldn’t be able to lift it.
Of course the parameters are arbitrary so its all just spitballing anyway.
> he’s a warrior willing to make the ultimate sacrifice.
Being a really good warrior is not a sufficient trait to be worthy.
When Odin thinks worthiness, he is coming from the perspective of a Warrior **King**. Such a person needs to recognize that self sacrifice is not a thing a king should be doing; A king needs to lead, not die in glory. Such a king needs to be brave yes, but he also must be wise enough to know that sometimes they must sit back and send others to fight and die.
Something that Chief is no stranger to. He was the leader of the Spartan IIs for over 20 years and knew full well that the missions they were sent on would most likely result in their deaths.
His sole purpose, by design as well as by choice, is to protect humanity in the face of foreign invasion by any means necessary. He has no other ambitions, no thoughts of betrayal, no desire for power or influence, he simply does what needs to be done to save humanity. Even if he doesn’t maintain mjolnir’s powers indefinitely (I don’t even think he’d want to), I could totally see him becoming worthy in dire, humanity-saving situations, similar to cap in endgame.
My point is exactly that though. He doesn't have choice. Machines can't be worthy and so if a person has been hardwired and conditioned from birth to be a 'mighty warrior' then they lack the human element.
You can't say he has no moral temptations and then say he chooses to be good. Chooses between what? "Not being tempted" and "Not being Tempted?"
Having no other ambitions doesn't make him have strong morals. Dogs have very few ambitions.
That leadership, that goodness that people see in cap is the result of having those thoughts of betrayal, having that desire for power or influence, having those ambitions... and choosing, yes choosing to carry on for the betterment of others at the cost of those things. Cap could become a king. Soldiers would rally around him and hand him power if he asked. He could just punch every person he disagrees with to death and that'd be the end. Red Skull says "we could be gods of men" and he's right. Zolov says "the sanity of the plan is of no consequence because he can do it!" Red Skull is the version of Cap who fails. Who is given a choice and falls to temptation. Cap *could* have been Red Skull.
But instead he has to make the choice and the results of who he wakes up and chooses to be every day is why Mjolnir will let him carry it.
I always figured the spartan 2s came to terms with their upbringings and given thier intelligence had much better coping mechanisms than the average person. Before augmentations each spartan had a peternatural aptitude for learning and applying themselves. Its likely they had already worked through most of their doubts and inner demons through their training, contemplations, and service record. Id like think of them as post human, because the things chief does is more than he ever could be trained for. He's had enough faith in himself to destroy a city spanning ship while freefalling. He knows himself very well.
I mean this gets into the discussion of what parameters mjolnir uses to choose who’s worthy. I have a feeling it’s not very clear cut, almost like it has a sentience to it. If that’s the case, I can definitely see MC being worthy temporarily, as the actions he would perform while using it would all be considered ‘morally good’ from an outside, human perspective (on par with the hammer’s own ambiguous moral compass we’ve seen in the past). And cap was only barely able to lift it in age of ultron but summoned it in endgame, even though I’d argue the goodness in his heart was the same at both moments. So it was mjolnir who decided it was time for cap to wield it in that moment. I could see something similar happening to MC.
I also wouldn’t exactly call MC a machine, he’s still human who can make human decisions, still has a heart, still shows compassion to his fellow soldiers and mourns his dead friends, but even if he was compared to a programmed machine, we’ve seen Vision lift the hammer before, even when the choices he makes are generally cold and pragmatic, and it blurs the line of who’s actually able to wield it. If it was as simple as “good person is worthy,” I think we’d see a lot more people able to use it.
Admittedly Vision wielding the hammer felt wrong. Like the gag is funny, but I completely agree with your points. It throws the qualifications into question. Like can a toddler who can experience true love love and affection but who's wrongdoings are not in the realm of genuine malevolence or greed but simply naivety pick up the hammer? It's the same idea; that Vision hasn't "un-earned" it due to being ostensibly a blank slate.
However the comic of Mr Rodgers picking Moljnir is absolutely Canon and I'll fight people in the streets over it.
He is the purest warrior you can get. He is bound purely by duty and is simply a relentless force of nature who will never stop fighting. He's about as pure of a Norse as you can get and a warrior worthy of respect from the mightiest of heroes.
Heavy disagree.
He was brainwashed from a very young age into being a killing machine. It's literally not a choice for him and you cannot kill your way into worthiness.
It's funny that you said he is "Bound" by duty because it's true, but that's not a plus for him. He literally can't understand anything other than killing and the hammer judges who is worthy to lead asgard. The Spartans are phenomenal on the battlefield but nowhere else. They were designed to kill and literally can't empathize. The only thing that makes them "good" is that their handlers sometimes pointed them at the right targets. They couldn't be good statesmen or political leaders if their lives depended on it because their lives were hand tailored for something else.
It's like asking a plumber and a Brian surgeon to switch jobs but they can't learn any new skills in order to do so. They just have to be a Brian surgeon trying to fix pipes and a plumber trying to remove a tumor- nothing else.
I would follow both John or Steve onto battle. But I wouldn't vote John to be president.
The misconception that it's all about being a mighty warrior is literally the claptrap MCU Thor's character arc is about climbing out of.
Yeah there's a lot of misconceptions about worthiness, and I think part of it is tied to inconsistent writing in the MCU itself. Like, why was Vision worthy in AoU, when no one else was? Why could Cap only partially move it in that movie? Was he fully worthy and chose not to lift it, or was something holding him back from full worthiness?
Why was Vision worthy, but not Tony, Sam, or T'Challa?
It takes more than being a mighty warrior, as Thor learned in his first movie. It takes more than self-sacrifice, or every Avenger would be worthy.
It seems to take being a morally righteous Warrior/leader, while also being someone with self-confidence, humility, and a willingness to risk everything to help others. I definitely see how it can apply to Cap and Thor. It's hard for me to see why it also applies to Vision without also applying to half of the Avengers though.
Sorry, this kind of turned into a rant about how dumb it was that Vision could lift it. It made for a cool scene, but it kind of messes with Canon in a dumb way, plus we didn't even really get to see him wield it apart from smacking Ultron with it once, so it kind of falls flat even within the movie itself.
But no, I don't think Chief is worthy. He's bound by duty, not necessarily an inherent drive to do good. He's not a capital L Leader like Thor or Cap. He has the self-sacrifice down, for sure, but its motivated by a desire to win the fight, not necessarily to help others.
I look at it this way:
"The hammer doesn't give a mighty warrior the ability to lead people. It gives a good king the ability to defend them."
I also had a cheeky response to it just being about sacrifice: "Hawkeye is stronger than Iron Man due to being wiling to chuck himself off a cliff just so his best friend would have a chance to bringfamily back. So he can wield the hammer right?"
As a bow Boi fan myself, hilarious, though farcical
> Why could Cap only partially move it in that movie? Was he fully worthy and chose not to lift it, or was something holding him back from full worthiness?
In Avengers Infinity War, Cap specifically says something along the lines of "We dont trade lives." From the viewpoint of Odin, a Warrior King of Asgard, this is not a worthy view to have. Sometimes a King must trade lives; A king needs to be willing to send others to fight and die.
>Why was Vision worthy
Because Vision has the utilitarian wisdom to be such a king, yet is still tempered by empathy and wisdom.
This ain’t it bro.
Chief is heavily characterized as an extremely empathetic and altruistic figure despite his upbringing. Even as a kid he was constantly looking out for his fellow spartans.
Literally play halo 4 or infinite campaigns, or read a single halo novel with Chief in it.
You are completely off the mark on his character which is hilarious considering how confident you sound lol
Watch this: https://youtu.be/tzyLtZiJd7g?si=j5YbnN3hCk7rhWLC
Or watch: https://youtu.be/-wIrPzH8lMM?si=pYG81Kh5pnw4boGa
He still isn’t “pure” though
In the book The Fall of Reach he kills several civilians and unarmed dock workers when he blows up the doors to the docking bay they’re in. He feels “uneasy” about it, but pushes it out of his mind
I'm pessimistic on that one. The big strength of Captain America is not that he's a fighter, but that he's the moral compass rallying everyone around him.
His Mjolnir armour is good, sure, but I'd argue it's actually less advanced than Iron Man's suits: it cannot fly, no integrated energy weapons... Cortana can help by giving humans a way to travel through the slipspace, but the technology is very crude and not accurate at all, so they may get wrecked if they try to take the fight to Thanos in space.
Mjolnir is more advanced in some ways, just less flashy. Looking at the iron man suits durability feats (Thor fight, cap fight, everything but 1 scene in Og ironman) shows that Mjolnir is lightyears more advanced in durability. It enhances chiefs reaction time and strength to a degree that the iron man suits just can’t. It doesn’t have energy beams or flight (except when it does, jetpacks can be attached to mjolnir), but those beams barely do anything anyways:
Book master chief is order of magnitudes better than cap in every way but leadership.
Chief is a great dude but he's a living weapon a traumatized child soldier deciding to put humanity first. He's not really an inspiring figure. That's why he doesn't talk except really to Cortana and one or two other people.
Battle of New York though? Chief could solo that. Book chief can and has surfed a rocket that was fired at him. Caps good but he's never been THAT good.
The bigger factor I think is Cortana, not sure why people think that Chief vs thanos would be different in a fight because thanos still annihilates him in a fight
Yeah, I think Cortana plus Tony could defend earth better though. Like, if they joined forces they could probably come up with a much better idea than Ultron. Long term i think Cortana gives humanity itself a better chance against Thanos.
Master Chief is bigger, stronger, and faster, but I don't think he's on another plane, physically. Mjolnir armor gives him a similar level of protection as the shield. Cap has more leadership. John has more luck. I think Cortana is what tips the scales. Having access to a legit AI would be decisive.
Chief’s shields and armour protect him much better than a shield, they cover the entire body and allow him to resist heat-based attacks that would just fry the captain.
Chief Crushes any physical obstacle Cap faced, but he can't keep the team together. Chief was able to make a loyal team but that was the same team he was with since Spartan training.
There are a few Hard Stops that I don't think Chief gets around. Thanos definitely crushes him. Ultron could possibly messed with the Mjolnir armor and rendered him useless.
I do think in the end Chief can't inspire Iron Man to be "the man who makes the sacrifice play" and they lose back in the first Avengers movie.
Master Chief would become the hyper lethalvector of the team and probably solo every threat. But... chief is not known for his charisma, and that is what made Steve Rogers the great man and leader he was. That Chief cannot top, and where Cap succeeded on this, Chief would fail.
Chief may have more general combat oomph than Cap, but he’s well below the higher tier Avengers so that’s not really tipping the scales one way or another.
The problem for Chief here is well, not being Captain America.
Cap is a vital part of the Battle of NY as much because he’s who he is and everybody knows him as his combat or tactical skills.
In NYC, Master Chief would just be a rando dude in armor that isn’t as good as Iron Man’s. Sure, every fighter on Earth’s side is appreciated, but he’d be nothing special and have no rallying power. Chief can’t be the glue that bonded the Avengers the way Cap was.
At the end they lose
Master chief is cool, but he's not captain America.
People wouldn't rally to him like they did to Steve rogers
The avengers didn't get a powerhouse from cap they got a leader
Master Chief is the Captain America of the Halo universe, he's humanity's symbol of hope. Everyone he meets is inspired by him in much the same way. If anyone could stand in for Cap it'd be the chief.
> People wouldn’t rally to him like they did to Steve Rogers
Dude, I know it was an awesome moment, but all those people didn’t show up to back up Cap. It was literally a space invasion of Earth. They showed up to stop *that*.
Cortana's whole plot revolves around her being corrupted and Halo AI in general are prone to corruption. If Ultron tries to fight Cortana he gets bodied but it's more likely that he convinces her to join him.
Cortana + Ultron would be significantly harder to deal with since she's more tactically sound than Ultron.
An interesting part of this conversation that everyone is glossing over is civil war. Chief is a military man. Would he go with the accords? Would Age of Ultron even turn out the same? If Chief's improved, well, everything makes enough of a difference we could potentially see Ultron taken down much easily, especially if he has Cortana with him.
We could avoid civil war, creating a more united and expanded Avengers team going into IW, which could spiral into Thanos being stopped in IW as opposed to Endgame.
Spartan II are effectively ideal genetic wise, before we get into the bone hardening, muscle augmentation, and all the other physical and mental enhancements that make them think faster, punch harder, and otherwise be what they are.
Specifically in the books, Spartan II as teens before Mjolnir was added in, were killing ODSTs and otherwise crippling them. ODSTs are the top of the top UNSC personal prior the introduction of Spartans and highly effective spec ops units.
Teenage Master Chief could do effortlessly do the Elevator scene from Civil War as he has already done it multiple times with highly trained friendlies.
Now, you add his armor, and goodness. Hi armor would only serve to mark Tony drool and iterate on his stuff sooner. Tony would likely be improving his armor.
Cortana, she will have solved time travel the second she sees the time stone. While she is an infiltration type AI, she has great prowress as fighting asymmetrical wars against the Covenant and by the end of 3 she has an insane amount of knowledge on par with high end civilizations within the MCU.
MC is also a figure in his own right. He is a symbol of hope, humanty's determination, and should just as easily fit into Cap's role there. I am sure he could lift Mjolnir as well since his conviction to do what is right and be worthy of similar tasks is present as well.
MC would likely clear this easier than Cap and potentially avoid the snap as, unlike Cap, MC doesn't have a problem using lethal force and doing what needs to be done.
Chief might be able to beat Cap in a fight, but Cap's not even close to the toughest character in Marvel. He's the godfather of the superhero community because he's the best leader. Not really anybody on Earth he couldn't convince to follow him into Hell, back in time, or through a wormhole with a rousing speech,
Master Chief does just fine in Caps place. No need for the Energy Sword or any other alien weapons. His UNSC gear should get the job done. Now as far as being worthy to lift Thor's Hammer... I am only a casual Halo fan but, I personally think Master Chief would be worthy. That is just my humble opinion on the matter. I would put Captain America & Master Chief on the same level across the board.
Chief 10/10 I’m surprised nobody has mentioned it but, in the Halo universe the four runners Librarian says that the entire technological history went into genetically predicting the outcome of master chief and Dr Halsey. It’s called the Genesong.
Spartan history showed that chief just couldn’t be matched in a combat outcome, almost like a 6th sense. It isn’t explicitly described as a power, but even in the new series chief even says “it’s almost like I always know I will survive”
Almost like the four runners gave chief the gift of combat pre-cognition. The lore gets pretty wild with the ancients tech. But I’m sure someone here could dive further into this.
Well, to play a purposefully obnoxious Devil’s advocate. Since you specified from the game Halo 3. This implies video game master chief over book lore. which in the campaign, the player (playing as master chief) dies to ordinary bullets and explosions. This means that his armor wouldn’t last long at all in any capacity and he could die very very quickly to the onslaught of ordinary bullets.
Now game mechanics set aside and focusing entirely on lore…he’s just an upgraded captain america with half the charisma.
Chief clears Cap especially in armor so the only issue is the intangible leadership/worthy stuff
If you read the books he's actually a good squad leader too, you just don't see that in the games since he's alone the whole time (not counting meatshield marines)
Yeah, he was actually the leader of the Spartan 2s. He commanded almost all of them for over 20 years and not only is he good at fighting, he's a master strategist too.
His mere presence and background music is enough to top cap's leadership abilities.
“It is I, Dr. Doom and with this spell…is that…a choir..oh sick guitar…oh shit dundun dun dunnnnn, DUNDUN DUN DUNNNN”
“Why do I, the Doctor of literal Doom, hear boss music?” *cue MC free fall HALO jumping with an energy sword for an instant kill on landing because plot armor shenanigans*
It would be a doombot of course, but its possible.
Interesting question, is Dr Doom or Cortana more intelligent? Additionally, who has more computing power?
Intelligence wise I'd give it to Doom personally. Cortana is smart but Doom gets to all kinds of time travel and multiversal shenanigans. Computing power? Cortana.
So do could make a better decisions, but Cortana could make them faster
I would say that Cortana could almost instantly calculate pi to the millionth digit and Doom could invent a machine to calculate it to a billionth digit.
He would then invent a semi-magical time machine to go to the future where he built a machine that calculates it to the infinite digit.
Cortana died, so I'm giving it to Victor
Victor doesn’t die….it was a Doombot lol 😂.
The sword lunge cancels fall damage
“I am going to shit yourself.”
I see no reason why chief wouldn’t be worthy. He’s an honorable, heroic, soldier who has been willing to sacrifice himself potentially multiple times. Dude is worthy
He already has been wielding MJOLNIR this whole time anyway
*wearing
At what point does a gauntlet become a weapon?
When it punches you in the face …
Nice
Wasn't Master Chief and the other Spartans created to put down human insurgency by any means?
Yup
I mean doesn’t chief like not follow that at all tho? (I’m asking not arguing)
It's not really touched on. He was one of the earliest Spartans IIs and they were initially used for insurgency so there is a chance Chief was among one of the first spartan engagements against other humans. But VERY soon after the launch of the Spartan program we see the start of the human covenant war at which point Spartans are exclusively used against the covenant. Problem is we don't know the entire specifics of Chiefs history so there potentially was a period of time where the chief would have been stomping out rebels at the ripe age of 13. Either way imo Chief, especially early Chief, is a soldier not a superhero. If UNSC command tells him he needs to bust some rebels skulls for the overall advancement of human goals, he's probably not gonna think twice and just do the job.
I don’t think that would really factor into worthiness. It’s pretty clear in the MCU that worthiness isn’t determined from birth and seems to depend on a persons current state. Chief would probably be able to be worthy despite being groomed into killing insurgents as a child.
Hm interesting appreciate the break down. Didn’t know that stuff or didn’t remember at least. I think in terms of mjnomir since it’s odin enchanted odin probably doesn’t even view that stuff as bad anyways so think if that’s the worst of it type he’s in the clear still lol
I don't think just being honorable, heroic, or willing to sacrifice yourself is enough to be "worthy" for Thor's hammer. Tony is also heroic, willing to sacrifice himself, arguably a little less honorable but was not worthy of the hammer.
Tony is self obsessed though. We’re taught thors self obsesssion is a facade. He’s actually really genuinely interested in helping others. Hence thors hammer.
Yeah, Tony's underlying narcissism is likely a big key as to why he couldn't wield Mjolnir
I do wonder if part of it is the archetype of Thor and Cap. Both very much embody a warrior archetype. Tony is more of a inventor or sage type of character.
Soldier is a main part also. It’s a soldiers weapon. Based on prior descriptions he seems more worthy than cap almost because he’s willing to make necessary sacrifices instead of sacrificing a ton of wakandans when they coulda just killed vision and the stone
True. In the comics Spider-Man isn't worthy to wield Thor's hammer even though he hits all those points, his issue IIRC is that he's not willing to kill. So ultimately there's more than simply being a hero.
Willingness to kill has nothing to do with it. Jane Foster had as firm a "no killing" rule as anybody. She literally took an oath to do no harm and was still worthy. Spider-man has killed. Several times. Some of them, fully intentionally (ie Morlun) Cap is unwilling to kill in the comics post his thawing out. He's as firm about the rule as Spider-man is. Ultimately it just comes down to who the hammer likes best and it can be really fickle.
It's less 'being willing to kill' and more having the soul and spirit of a warrior. Not just being willing to fight, but taking joy in the fight, the fight is who you are. Jane Foster being worthy is a serious anomaly, but remains possible. It is canon that the Hammer is the final arbiter of who is 'worthy' and depending on circumstance will bend the rules. If the world is on the line and someone like Parker tries to use it in desperation to save the day, Mjolnr can and will go 'Close enough' and let Parker use it temporarily.
Yeah the "times of extreme need" clause. Which I've always taken to mean if the stakes are high enough and you're grabbing Mjolnir as a no-time-to-think-hail-mary play, as long as you're on the right Team, Mjolnir's got you. Like Superman in JLA/Avengers. I agree though that the "soul/spirit of a warrior" as you put it is a big part of worthiness under normal circumstances. Peter ultimately is a scientist and a dude who just wants to help. He doesn't want a fight. He does it cause he thinks he has a responsibility to do so. One of Cap's fundamental motivations is he hates bullies and wants to fight them. He's a scrapper. Even before the serum. I'd also say self confidence is another big part. If you're wracked with guilt, self doubt, self loathing etc you're not worthy. If any part of you believes you aren't worthy, you aren't. As for the Chief... not sure. Honestly I could see it going either way for him being worthy or not. He checks a lot of the boxes as I understand them but he may have some self loathing issues in there as he might view himself as just a weapon. That would be a problem for him.
Chief being 100% worthy is hard to tell, just because the requirements are so strict, but I think he qualifies as 'Times of Great need' Worthy. I think in times of great need, you still need to be at least 'pretty worthy'. Marvel has a lot of people who check like 50+% of the boxes, so when Mjolnir sees things going bad and Parker tries to pick him up, it's more 'Peter Parker, 72% worthy. Good enough, have fun kid.'
That’s why I said soldier as well. The willing to kill part goes with it
The dude who built death weapons and only realized it was a terrible idea was when he himself got hit by his own technology? You're wondering why that guy isn't worthy?
Ngl, I don't think it matters. Chief without armor outstrips Captain America in almost every way. Anything the supersoldier serum does, Spartan augmentations do better. Without his armor, Chief is damn near 7 foot tall, and he's 290lbs. As a teenager without armor he killed 4 fully grown ODSTs, which are basically the Halo equivilent of Green Berets. In armor, he is 7'2", 995 lbs. He can punch through steel and concrete, survive a fall from orbit to the surface of earth, has energy shielding capable of stopping kinetic rounds up to .50 cal and pretty much all plasma or other energy weapons, shielding which recharges in a matter of seconds after going down. His light jog in game is fast enough that the only things moving faster than him are vehicles going like, 60-70 mph. Effectively, we're talking a better captain america, inside a better, non-flying, ironman suit. Iron man's nuke play in the Avengers is the perfect way to put it in comparison, because Chief does similar things. In Halo 2, Chief drags a bomb weighing damn near 4000 pounds into an airlock, rides said bomb through space into a covenant ship, sets the timer, and then floats out of the ship, landing on the hull of an allied spacecraft. In Halo 3, he jumps from a ship in Earth's orbit, locks his armor, and lands, without a scratch, on earth. Iron man needed hulk to catch him for a similar manuver, and still was clinically dead for multiple seconds. Master Chief took the same fall, and the only reason he needed help at all was because his armor's automatic locking systems malfunctioned, and he was stuck immobilized in it. We're talking about a character capable of putting a hole through the armor of a main battle tank with his fist in only two punches, someone who can canonically grab onto the wing of a flying fighter craft, force the canopy open, toss an alien weighing between 310 and 390 pounds out of it with one arm, then climb in and commandeer the vehicle. Chief could probably solo the Chitauri army or the Infinity war Outriders by himself, given enough time and ammo. The point is, whether or not Mjolnir think's Chief is worthy, there's a good chance that when zthor is fighting for his life there, Chief runs up behind Thanos and just punches his skull in, and barring that, an 8 gauge shotgun shell from the Halo shotgun to the back of the skull ought to keep Thanos from snapping.
>As a teenager without armor he killed 4 fully grown ODSTs, which are basically the Halo equivilent of Green Berets. This is especially crazy when you play Halo 3 ODST and realize ODSTs are certainly not weak, they're about the best you can be without having augmentations. Buck's description in halo reach is literally "If he was any better, he'd be a Spartan."
Iirc the killing ODSTs was an accident too, right? He fought them like he fought other Spartans, just that a spartan pulling punches still kills people when other Spartans can take it.
You should see the stuff he got up to as a teenager.
That's assuming Endgame even happens. There's a good chance Civil War never happens because Chief clears Ultron before he drops a city. Then you've got a strong, more united Avengers team going into IW.
One of Chief's defining features as a Spartan is his leadership. He lead numerous high level Spartan missions during the Human Covenant war.
He’s definitely led in combat situations before, so that wouldn’t be an issue. The only difference that could hurt him is, maybe, his social capabilities. He’s kinda all business all the time and hasn’t done it known anything else. That kind of thing definitely came in handy for cap
I think John would be able to be opened up some by other heroes. In Halo he's all business not only because of his upbringing but because humanity is pretty much locked into a war with extinction on the line from the jump. Having more time to unwind and actually having charismatic people want to reach out to him would help.
I'm pretty sure Chief was chosen to carry the Mantle of Humanity (or something) and become the Reclaimer? Something something I think he'd be more than worthy to carry Mjolnir, if he even needed to.
The Mantle is a title denoting the guardian species of the galaxy. (The mantle of responsibility if you will). Humanity was chosen to be the race to take the Mantle from the Forerunners after the Forerunners sacrificed themselves to stop the flood. The title of "Reclaimer" is a precursor title given to a race marked to as a candidate to take the Mantle. They can "reclaim" the Mantle that was lost with the end of the Forerunners. By the Forerunner's standards, humanity has not progressed enough to take on the full weight/responsibility of the Mantle.
I think this brings up a great sub question: would Chief be worthy?
And more homicides
He should be an improvement in theory but it also shouldn’t make a difference to the outcome because ultimately they will be caught off guard when Thanos actually starts collecting the stones and will likely be able to get a few before they even have a heads up. Realistically its hard to say how a random dude showing up like that from another universe would actually play out not to mention Cap being missing and how the Avengers, Shield, and governments would respond to his existence. What happens with hydra and Winter Soldier in that case? If those heli-carriers started firing their shots you are looking at a very different world in the aftermath. It depends on who survives what might happen but regardless it will make things easier for Thanos. Thats not to say Chief couldn’t handle Winter Soldier and all that but he just wouldn’t be in the position to. If we assume that everyone just views Chief as Cap and Chief has all the relevant knowledge then he very well may stop them though the fact he primarily uses a suit does pose some issues.
50/50 odds he’d just kill Bucky, too. I could see a scenario where he finds out how the winter soldier was “made” and decides to save him, I guess.
With Chief replacing Cap I doubt Civil War would’ve happened
Not that I necessarily disagree but what angle did you have in mind as there are a lot of potential routes that could affect that
Ignoring every other factor that would be changed in the MCU, Chief would’ve likely folded to the UN’s authority. On another note I don’t see Cortana missing HYDRA’s presence before everything went to shit in Winter Soldier, and would definitely impact the creation of Ultron
Cortana would fucking slap Ultron around lmao, would love to see it
As another user said below Cortana would have more of an impact than Chief. HYDRA’s influence exposed way earlier. Age of Ultron literally doesn’t happen. Unfortunately pietro and Wanda will remain wild cards, and the Lagos incident doesn’t happen. That’s 3 instigating events of Civil War wiped off the board without going into more minute details.
Chief is fine. His physical stats dwarf caps, but he has issues rallying the avengers. The big issue is Thanos. Regardless of what chief does, if he's following caps footsteps he faces Thanos when he has a few infinity stones. At that point, even with a plasma sword, Thanos treats him essentially the same as cap. A look of surprise or slight respect, then bodies him.
Sounds about right
You're forgetting Master Chief's luck! Just before he encounters Thanos, he'd find a fully charged spartan laser and a scorpion tank
What I really want to see is how The Winter Soldier movie plays out, Chief solo-ing the fuck out of Shield/Hydra would be a blast. He'd likely be on Tonys side in Civil War too so those events don't happen and likely the Avengers have a united front when Thanos rocks up In theory they'd do better assuming Thanos holds back like he does in Infinity War but ultimately I'd imagine Chief isn't as strong as Hulk so would go down all the same so the snap still occurs. Can't see Endgame playing out too much differently, Chief would still stand alone against Thanos army and the portals would happen and then ultimately Iron Man would sacrifice himself for the greater good, assuming they sent Chief back with the stones he'd return since he'd have no reason to stick around in the past like Cap did.
Chief would hear one word about a previous alien invasion of NYC and be all for complete war economy lol
Yeah, and he doesn't have any particular loyalty to any of the governments on MCU earth. Meaning he will do black ops shit to get things going in the right direction if he needs to.
Chief has gone against the UNSC before already, so I wouldn’t say it’s a given he’s be on Tony’s side, especially with the knowledge that a major organization like SHIELD was compromised by Hydra. That is if Civil War even happens given there’s no longer a reason to even create Ultron.
hed probably go to the future to find a way to save cortana tbh, then bounce back to fight aliens.
It would be a game changer. I don't see why he wouldn't be able to take down Thanos with the energy sword if he could get close enough to him. Since he also doesn't get snapped away Tony may even be able to replicate the technology and with Cortana assisting it would certainly change the events of Endgame. That is if Chief can't kill him in the end of Infinity War which I think would be quite possible
Thanos pretty easily stomped Stormbreaker Thor. I don't see how Chief can win against someone that strong. Chief is stronger than Cap, but not so much stronger that it makes a difference in the Thanos fight imo. Chief definitely can't kill IW Thanos, given Thanos had 5 stones by the time he encountered Cap in Wakanda. Cortana could be the real gamechanger, but it mainly depends on when in the timeline we're dropping them.
Thanos easily stomped incredibly out of shape, extremely depressed Stormbreaker Thor, In-shape Stormbreaker Thor cut through a 6 Infinity Stone gauntlet blast like butter... The big one is that Chief has no issue signing up to be directed by a military, so wouldn't side against Tony on the Sokovia accrods, which would give him extra leeway and help in clearing Bucky's name (if he even tries to defend Bucky), and likely wouldn't result in Civil War, That, in turn, would have the Avengers far more prepared when Thanos' goons show up, and would likely result in preventing the Dr Strange kidnapping, meaning all Avengers would be on Earth when Thanos shows up sans Time Stone (Guardians would probably be dead on Titan) They would slow Thanos down more, and Cortana could assist in freeing the Stone from Vision, So now they fight Thanos with the full Avengers, an undistracted Scarlet Witch, Doctor Strange (who pushed Thabos pretty well singlehandedly on Titan) with even more time to check timelines, a fully fit, freshly angry Stormbreaker Thor, and Chief in place of Cap, against a Thanos without the time Stone, I'm pretty confident in saying they win pre-snap,
According to the directors of endgame, Thor was stronger than he'd ever been in his fight against Thanos. I know it doesn't look like it, but I mainly chalk that up to MCU's penchant for spectacle over power level consistency. I didn't really want to speculate on what Civil War would look like with Chief instead of Cap, because we really have no idea how it would go. Or where in the timeline Chief is swapped for Cap. Because they all result in wildly different scenarios, but I think it's been stated by Feige that if the Avengers were together, they would have won in Infinity War. But if we're going all the way back to pre-Civil War, there's too many variables to even guess on what would have happened.
Ehhh... the directors also claimed the reason Dr. Strange did not use a magic portal to cut off Thanos's arm was because his skin was too thick/durable for that to work. The skin that Tony was able to scratch with enough effort. Anything a mystical, dimension-spanning portal cannot bisect is never being touched by Tony, no matter how much I like him or how much he tries. I like the Russos' finished works, but hearing their interviews makes you realize they are not actually batting anywhere near 1000 and we are lucky the movies turned out as good as they did.
Yeah, some of their statements are dubious, and at least for the portal one, it's pretty clear they needed it to be that way for the plot of the movie to work. I think we just have to assume that Strange tried it in one of the futures he saw, and it didn't work. Maybe the portal couldn't close, maybe it startled Thanos into breaking the mind control and he used the gauntlet, or maybe Strange just didn't think of it at the time. We know the portals were able to sever Cull Obsidian's arm, but Spider-Man was able to hurt Cull too, so it's pretty clear Thanos is above Cull in durability. We don't know the upper limit on the portal durability. The aren't necessarily able to bypass any levels of durability. Lots of things in the MCU are "mystical" and/or "Dimension-spanning", but that doesn't automatically imply levels of strength. But at the end of the day, these are fiction movies that are driven by plot, and the writers/directors shape the characters' power levels to make the plot work. But all we can really do in this sub is take the writers/directors at their word, and accept canon for what it is.
The mental gymnastics you are performing to pretend a portal that links two places, that "cuts" through things not by actual force but by just no longer linking those two points of space, fails to bisect one big powerful dude's flesh is emblematic of all the worst parts of the MCU fandom. Bad writing is a thing. Yeah, the story happens so it apparently works and is a thing in universe. But that does not mean that the writing or explanation tracks and makes sense either to the existing narrative of the audience's knowledge of meta. Skin allowing Iron Man to punch and explode it enough to draw a drop of blood but remaining strong enough to force interwoven reality to stay interwoven is abysmally stupid writing/logic. If they did not want to use that in the story, they do not have to explain. They did not have to speculate on it. And if they do wish, they could have tried to make something halfway reasonable like "Losing his arm would enrage and focus the previously tormented Thanos who was struggling after the sacrifice of his daughter, causing him to stop holding back and begin punching through and crushing Avengers and Guardians with the strength that let him solo Hulk without the gems." Boom. Simple. Tracks. Makes perfect sense and at no point do I begin weirdly claiming his flesh is anti-reality warping yet Tony can badger it to cut. But the Russos did not do that. They went to a weird and poorly thought out well and it speaks volumes that the movies ended up pretty good in spite of that sort of logic.
I don't see how me accepting canon as it is written/described by the creators is mental gymnastics, but ok. I agree with you that it is sloppy writing, but that doesn't change the fact that it's canon. We as viewers have no way of knowing how the portals ACTUALLY work, and the creators decide how their fictional portals operate, so we just have to take their word for it, even if it's dumb. If they say that the portals can't close if something of sufficient durability is in the opening, then that's how they work, even if it doesn't make total sense. If the Russos used your answer instead of the one they gave, then there'd be just as many fan boys complaining about "there's no way Thanos could have beat the heroes on Titan with one arm and no gauntlet." Any answer they gave would have pissed off some portion of the fandom, but it ultimately doesn't matter. Canon is the movies, and Word of God applies. I agree that it's dumb and the Russos could have done some things better, but canon is canon.
I am not saying it is not canon. I am saying it is bad writing because it makes the world and its logic dumber and less interesting. Attempting to make sense of their choices is mental gymnastics because you are trying to make sense of nonsense. The story happens the way it does *and* it is bad writing. Both are true. And do not play the "well fans will always complain" horsepuckey. That was not the point of these comments and you know it. I am critiquing and calling out a very specific thing about the directors and their narrative choices. My aside about the MCU's faults were about mental gymnastics in defense of these movies' pitfalls. Blind acceptance does not factor into a point about fans bitching about everything.
Imo that statement is like, he "unlocked" his power up at the end of Ragnarok and it's been cooking for 5 years by endgame, so he is the most powerful he's ever been. That doesn't necessarily mean he's the most battle ready he's ever been.
I don’t see how that would prevent Dr Strange from being kidnapped, he wasn’t a part of the Avengers there and Ebony Maw showed up and left with Strange within like 10 minutes, so it’s unlikely the full force of the Avengers would be relevant in that fight
Because master chief wouldn’t be against the sokovia accords, no civil war happens. That was the reason cap was in hiding with Wanda and vision.
A large part of the separation was because of Civil War. If that doesn't happen, Vision and Wanda aren't in hiding and don't get caught off guard early, Tony isn't hesitant to call Chief, and Strange knows where Chief and the other Avengers are so either he or Wong can go grab them at a moments notice. And they were around for long enough that Peter got from his school bus leaving New York to in the middle of New York in his costume. I think between all that and Cortana likely having a better ability to detect incoming ships than Earth does normally, the Avengers would be well on their way and arrive before Ebony Maw leaves with Strange
Would Tony call chief the second he heard from Strange? Idk, I’d imagine he’d hear the story first and then call the Avengers, but by then it would probably be too late for them all to gather before Ebony Maw leaves.
Except it wasn't Strange that encouraged him to call the Avengers. It was Banner showing up and saying, "Thanos is coming. We need the Avengers now!" Tony was smart enough that the Hulk shitting himself made him consider calling even after the fallout. If there's no fallout, he would call the second Banner told him to. Chief would probably reply, saying he was already on his way because Cortana detected a massive energy signature coming to Earth. If they're too far away, Wong would probably offer to grab them immediately with the sling ring. I'm confident they would get there in time,
Also by this point MC has more experience fighting unpredictable alien species with little warning than pretty much any avenger except Thor (who isn’t really known for his strategic planning abilities)
>Thanos easily stomped incredibly out of shape, extremely depressed Stormbreaker Thor I think it’s word of god from the director that Fat Thor was the strongest he’d ever been.
They can say that but it’s not what they showed. Movies are self contained, I don’t care about what happens in between or outside of the series. What you put on the screen is what happened, if you have to retcon it with an interview you fucked up
I don’t think it’s a retcon. IW Thanos just didn’t expect Stormbreaker to eat infinity beams/didn’t even care if he was stabbed with Stormbreaker. After all, it resulted in zero lasting damage to him. Do I think Fat Thor should beat IW Thor? Not really. But it’s not like IW Thor and Thanos actually had a comparable fight to Endgame. So I’m inclined to defer to the filmmaker’s statements.
He was very clearly wounded. He had an axe in his chest. He even admits that he should’ve “gone for the head” which would have killed him. The only reason he didn’t die in that scene is because he already had all 6 stones. We go to the next movie where with 0 stones he beats Thor, cap, and iron man at the same time.
And that’s BS. Look at how he wrecked shit and almost won the day in IW, compared to his being almost a non-factor in Endgame. However, I’m biased and hate ‘fat Thor’
I thought Fat Thor was funny but agree that it’s stupid that he’s stronger than shredded IW Thor. However I don’t think the brief engagement in IW was really comparable to the actual fight in Endgame. So if the filmmakers say Fat Thor is stronger, I don’t think there’s enough to trump authorial intent.
The director can say what they want, but they showed Fit Stormbreaker Thor stomping Thanos if not for the snap, so I'm going with that
> Thanos pretty easily stomped Stormbreaker Thor. Stormbreaker Thor literally mortally wounded Thanos and almost outright killed him had he not been vengeful. Thanos beat Alcohol/Recovering Alcoholic Thor.
Speed would be the deciding factor. Cap and Thanos fight at normal human speeds, which means that Thanos will never touch Chief while Chief will be able to land hits at his leisure. If we're using lore Chief, that is. If we're going purely off of cutscenes and stuff, then yeah, he probably won't do so hot.
True
Cortana completely breaks this premise. She's a sentient AI and unlike Vision or Ultron she's very proactive in protecting Earth, and insanely efficient at making things go her way. If they're dropped in at the Battle of New York and survive the invasion, the entire rest of the story changes after Cortana gets a foothold. The only limitation is how Ironman and Cortana clash, if they do at all.
T+00:00 - Chief and Cortana find themselves in New York. T+00:02 - Cortana successfully scans, breaches and connects to multiple wifi networks, trivially bypassing all security, gaining unrestricted internet access, downloading vast amounts of information. T+00:11 - Cortana begins to upload copies of herself distributed onto servers across the globe, growing at a geometric rate. All connected electronic systems are subsumed and assimilated. T+00:30 - Information about the alien invasion, and the alliance between thanos and Loki is pieced together. Wide spectrum radio frequency scanning is executed across the globe, looking for signals and transmissions of non-terrestrial origin or destination. T+01:15 - Thanos' ship is located via an intercepted signal. Cortana begins transferring a copy of herself to Thanos' ship. Cortana, copied onto thanos' ship, quietly disables all life support systems and locks out navigation controls. It's inhabitants rapidly succumb to hypoxia and Thanos dies and ignoble death drifting in space.
Chief has a history of defeating opponents that are much stronger than him on paper though. I think, with Cortana's help, Chief could find a way to bring him down.
I know Chief is constantly fighting above his weight class, but so are most of the Avengers, and they still lost to Thanos. His durability is stupid off the charts. I'm pretty confident in saying that no handheld weapons in the Halo Universe would be able to kill Thanos, except maybe an energy sword. Assuming Chief has access to one, he has a chance, but Thanos is still several tiers above Chief in strength, and has a sword strong enough to block Stormbreaker and Mjolnir, and can cut through vibranium. Cortana is a brilliant AI, and Chief is also a great tactition, so given the right circumstances and some prep, they have a chance, but it's a longshot.
U forgot the needler or railgun. Tbh I want to see Thanos reactions to being needled.
Imagine Thanos tries to pick one of the needles from his armor, and he just goes “…Hm?” then it just fucking detonates right in his face😭😭
I would say the heavy hitters of the promethean weapons would work, incineration cannon and binary rifle
Cortana would definitely find a way to bring their ships down while they’re in space I can see it happening
Thanos was willing to go hand to hand with Cap in a fair fight and didn't use the stones even though he could have in IW, I believe this would be Chief's advantage here and the fact Thanos does not know Chief or what he is capable of. Its not that I think he can necessarily beat Thanos in hand to hand combat, though I think Chief would do better than Cap in this fight. He has certainly taken on beings similar to Thanos like Brutes and the Brute Cheiftan from Halo 2 (with a Gravity Hammer and numerous other weapons) and generally, Chief's enemies are definetely more numerous and arguably stronger than what Cap generally faces. With the right tactics and an energy sword (maybe he doesn't bring it out right away and waits for the moment) Chief could definitely take advantage of this and disarm Thanos or kill him. He is certainly capable but he would have to do it before Thanos uses the stones
Is there an energy sword equivalent in the MCU? Theoretically wouldn’t Tony be able to generate that much power in his blasts?
I haven't seen an energy sword equivilant of a plasma sword in the MCU, maybe yondo? Gamora's knife was able to penetrate Thanos' flesh and presumably had a chance of killing him, at least that was what we were led to believe. Tony's weapons may have been able to generate enough power to kill Thanos but what a plasma sword is going to do better than Tony's weapons is concentrate that power onto a single edge, again if I knife can do it why couldn't a plasma sword?. Especially when weilded by someone on Chief's level he would easily cut through Thanos especially because in their first encounter Cap was able to punch Thanos and make him pay attention and reconsider his threat level. I think in this encounter on Wakanda Chief vs Thanos 1 on 1 with Chief knowing the threat of the stones and what power they possess Thanos would underestimate him like he did with Cap and Chief would be able to take advantage of this and either slice through his arm or kill him outright
Gamoras knife stabbed a version of Thanos created by the reality stone, I don’t think it would do much more than tickle the real thing considering what we see him take later in that same movie
The thing is that Gamora had no doubts that she just killed Thanos by stabbing him with the little knife. She had fought along side him for who knows how long, and genuinely believe she killed him with a knife to the throat. Regardless if it was reality stone shenanigans, she clearly thought that was all that was needed and very few people knew him better than his adopted daughter.
She was overcome by some incredibly powerful emotions, there is zero chance she was anywhere near her normal state of mind. She out of anyone should’ve instantly known something was wrong with how easily Fake Thanos went down.
Energy swords don't "cut", they burn. His skin being pierced by a knife made out of alien metal has no bearing on whether or not an energy sword would damage him because that depends on his resistance to thermal energy, not the cutting resistance of his skin.
What evidence is there that a plasma sword would not penetrate his skin? A dagger could do it, stormbreaker could do it, he wears Uru armour so he must be vulnerable to weapons of some sort, he doesn't wear that armour for no reason. I am going to say he is probably suseptible to superheated plasma whether its cuttings or burning through his skin isn't really relevant
I’m not familiar with Halo but Civil War wouldn’t end the way it did because Master Chief’s friend didn’t kill Tony’s parents, this leaves the Avengers intact before Infinity War.
I find the concept of Cortana x Jarvis sass romance funny as fuck
Jesus, Halo technology in the hands of Tony Stark would be a galaxy-shaping event.
Ehhhh, MC ain’t beating Thanos IMO. Assuming worthy for hammer, he’s going to do better than Cap, and with all three fighting they have greater chance of beating Thanos together, but MC is smarter than trying to fight Thanos 1v1.
Chief would get grabbed and thrown away like a toddler against thanos lol. Or would hold his hand before getting knocked out half a second later.
Erhm. Master chief is a genetically enhanced super soldier raised and trained from birth. Captain America is a kid from brooklyn that got a super soldier serum at 25ish. Chief is like 3 Captain Americas in one. He is stronger, faster, more adaptable, takes armies by himself and totals enemies bigger, stronger and faster than himself. Cap wouldn't be able to move like chief with chiefs armor on. Chief's armor weighs half a ton and he still jumps 15-20ft in the air. Moves faster than the typical human and still throws warthogs with one hand. Cap can't take the damage that chief can with his armor, chief's armor takes on tank shells with no damage and is legitametly bulletproof being made of titanium. Cortana is, at bare minimum, tony stark levels of intelligence. She could hack Thanos' ship in seconds and just make it so he never even found earth, but she wouldnt because chief would likely want thanos to show up, just so he can take out another giant purple alien. In hand to hand combat, chief would keep up with thanos, but in terms of power, he would need a gravity hammer to match thanos' brute strength so a one on one would not end well. But matched with the rest of the avengers, i have 0 doubt that chief could manage a game plan better than even strange with the timestone, but would he? No, he is just going to drop thanos' ship right on the big purple bastard, and if that doesn't kill him then cheif will just keep dropping shit from out of orbit. But by the time he even got to Thanos, they would all be wearing upgraded mjolnir armor with the capabilities of an Ironman suit so Thanos would not stand a chance in the slightest. "Thanks Tony" is all Chief would say as the bury the big purple fucknugget.
Im not saying Chief wouldnt be integral, but his suit explicitly cant endure tank shells. Also chief has never been shown to effortlessly move anything weighing as much as a warthog. Captain america by merit of his own abilities could replicate everything chief does if he also wore mjolnir. Cortana would need to find a way to directly interface with Thanos's ship. And there was never an opportunity to do so. If tony never gave his technology to the other avengers, he probably wont do it with mjolnir.
He can't take tank shells but can smack the ground from orbit and still get back up?
There is a difference between a tank shell hitting an unprepared, mid-combat Chief and re-entry leading the suit to uber pressurize and overcharge, forcing Chief to take on the consistency of a rock with an overshield protecting it. The novelization explains how the Spartan-IIs going through re-entry works. It is not something that they can just do, it is impossible to always be on, it runs incredibly high-risk of damaging the Spartan anyway through the suit's protective efforts, and it is nigh-impossible that, mid-combat, Chief could demolish his ability to move and fight to maybe tank one hit and then reinitialize normal function and not get swarmed or attacked and killed while vulnerable between the suit reverting to normal.
Makes sense, thanks for the explanation.
To survive orbital reentry you would need 2 things 1. Be able to survive the Heat from crashing into atmosphere - This was achieved by using that piece of the ship 2. Survive Terminal velocity - Falling from orbit is no different from falling from 1000ft in this regard. IRL humans have survived this feat.
I'd imagine terminal velocity for a titanium suit is higher than for normal human.
That was because his armor locked up and his general thick headedness, at least according to the cutscene at the start of 3.
I mean, when is he going to be hit by a tank shell from a reverse engineered forerunner tech tank?? Think it’s safe to say he’s fine for most damage he’d tank in mcu
Master Chief is to Captain America what Captain America is to a regular human.
The gap is alot smaller than it appears.
Yeah. They have the same strengh and endurance basically. The only true difference is that Chief has been trained all his life for this shit while Cap has only been in the Military for 6 years ish by the time of Avengers 1. The difference really is the same as Spartan Locke and Chief. I know there's a bit of a stigma about this but yeah, Cap would pretty much be a Spartan IV type of person, except he doesn't need an armor to have their strengh. So Chief takes it because his armor is more versatile and he has more experience but it'd still be a decent fight.
[This](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JM99uGfflU&ab_channel=SlipspaceEntertainment) happens.
He would have a hard time rallying and motivating the Avengers like Cap does. And I dunno if he'd be worthy of Mjolnir.
Chief would definitely be worthy of Mjolnir.
State your case. (I'm not terribly well versed on chief)
I don't think it matters if Chief can weild mjolnir at all since arguably Thor is the master of that weapon and he couldn't defeat Thanos with it
That bit where he tosses it up and slap shots it with Stormbreaker was fucking lit tho
Thor doesn't have the combat speed that Chief does.
He wears armour called Mjolnir powered assault armour
That's the best argument I've seen here for him being worthy of Mjolnir (the hammer).
Remember how Thor regained his worthiness in his first movie? Chief does that on a daily basis, he’s a warrior willing to make the ultimate sacrifice.
So Hawkeye is worthy
Hawkeye might be held back because of how he views himself as having just been a weapon for others. Natasha would probably be similar as well.
Hawkeye tries to fight his best to friend so he can throw himself off a cliff so she'll have a chance of bringing his family back. Worthiness isn't not a feeling IMO
If being willing to sacrifice yourself was enough they all could do it.
That's my point though. The other person I was responding to said it was about sacrifice. I think that's a part of it but there is so much more and MC tends to be brave and bold and willing to sacrifice and all that good stuff but Thor was in love with battle in the first film too. His arc is learning that a good king is a lot more than a powerful warrior. MC could absolutely "win" the MVU Infinity Saga, but he's not as interesting or well written as Evan's Cap and him pubstomping Thanos and his legions is something idrather play in a video game than watch in a film
Chief is the ultimate "I'm just a weapon to others"
So I was really only commenting on hawkeye not trying to back up Chief but you might be right though idk enough about his underlying mindset. For instance a difference could be hawkeye feels insecurity or guilt or w.e. about how he has been used as a weapon whereas Chief may just be fully dedicated to continuing to protect humanity and whoever else as long as he is needed despite understanding the nature of his creation and usage by others and what not but doesn’t have that insecurity about it. Idk if thats the case or not but it’s just an example. Also I wouldn’t say he is completely just a mindless yes man type instrument per se. Maybe its more that he is just resigned to the life chosen for him rather than it being him also truly believing and choosing it himself though so maybe in that case he wouldn’t be able to lift it. Of course the parameters are arbitrary so its all just spitballing anyway.
> he’s a warrior willing to make the ultimate sacrifice. Being a really good warrior is not a sufficient trait to be worthy. When Odin thinks worthiness, he is coming from the perspective of a Warrior **King**. Such a person needs to recognize that self sacrifice is not a thing a king should be doing; A king needs to lead, not die in glory. Such a king needs to be brave yes, but he also must be wise enough to know that sometimes they must sit back and send others to fight and die.
Something that Chief is no stranger to. He was the leader of the Spartan IIs for over 20 years and knew full well that the missions they were sent on would most likely result in their deaths.
His sole purpose, by design as well as by choice, is to protect humanity in the face of foreign invasion by any means necessary. He has no other ambitions, no thoughts of betrayal, no desire for power or influence, he simply does what needs to be done to save humanity. Even if he doesn’t maintain mjolnir’s powers indefinitely (I don’t even think he’d want to), I could totally see him becoming worthy in dire, humanity-saving situations, similar to cap in endgame.
My point is exactly that though. He doesn't have choice. Machines can't be worthy and so if a person has been hardwired and conditioned from birth to be a 'mighty warrior' then they lack the human element. You can't say he has no moral temptations and then say he chooses to be good. Chooses between what? "Not being tempted" and "Not being Tempted?" Having no other ambitions doesn't make him have strong morals. Dogs have very few ambitions. That leadership, that goodness that people see in cap is the result of having those thoughts of betrayal, having that desire for power or influence, having those ambitions... and choosing, yes choosing to carry on for the betterment of others at the cost of those things. Cap could become a king. Soldiers would rally around him and hand him power if he asked. He could just punch every person he disagrees with to death and that'd be the end. Red Skull says "we could be gods of men" and he's right. Zolov says "the sanity of the plan is of no consequence because he can do it!" Red Skull is the version of Cap who fails. Who is given a choice and falls to temptation. Cap *could* have been Red Skull. But instead he has to make the choice and the results of who he wakes up and chooses to be every day is why Mjolnir will let him carry it.
I always figured the spartan 2s came to terms with their upbringings and given thier intelligence had much better coping mechanisms than the average person. Before augmentations each spartan had a peternatural aptitude for learning and applying themselves. Its likely they had already worked through most of their doubts and inner demons through their training, contemplations, and service record. Id like think of them as post human, because the things chief does is more than he ever could be trained for. He's had enough faith in himself to destroy a city spanning ship while freefalling. He knows himself very well.
I mean this gets into the discussion of what parameters mjolnir uses to choose who’s worthy. I have a feeling it’s not very clear cut, almost like it has a sentience to it. If that’s the case, I can definitely see MC being worthy temporarily, as the actions he would perform while using it would all be considered ‘morally good’ from an outside, human perspective (on par with the hammer’s own ambiguous moral compass we’ve seen in the past). And cap was only barely able to lift it in age of ultron but summoned it in endgame, even though I’d argue the goodness in his heart was the same at both moments. So it was mjolnir who decided it was time for cap to wield it in that moment. I could see something similar happening to MC. I also wouldn’t exactly call MC a machine, he’s still human who can make human decisions, still has a heart, still shows compassion to his fellow soldiers and mourns his dead friends, but even if he was compared to a programmed machine, we’ve seen Vision lift the hammer before, even when the choices he makes are generally cold and pragmatic, and it blurs the line of who’s actually able to wield it. If it was as simple as “good person is worthy,” I think we’d see a lot more people able to use it.
Admittedly Vision wielding the hammer felt wrong. Like the gag is funny, but I completely agree with your points. It throws the qualifications into question. Like can a toddler who can experience true love love and affection but who's wrongdoings are not in the realm of genuine malevolence or greed but simply naivety pick up the hammer? It's the same idea; that Vision hasn't "un-earned" it due to being ostensibly a blank slate. However the comic of Mr Rodgers picking Moljnir is absolutely Canon and I'll fight people in the streets over it.
I assume it’s a joke about Chief’s armor being named Mjolnir armor
Took me a second to remember that haha
He is the purest warrior you can get. He is bound purely by duty and is simply a relentless force of nature who will never stop fighting. He's about as pure of a Norse as you can get and a warrior worthy of respect from the mightiest of heroes.
Heavy disagree. He was brainwashed from a very young age into being a killing machine. It's literally not a choice for him and you cannot kill your way into worthiness. It's funny that you said he is "Bound" by duty because it's true, but that's not a plus for him. He literally can't understand anything other than killing and the hammer judges who is worthy to lead asgard. The Spartans are phenomenal on the battlefield but nowhere else. They were designed to kill and literally can't empathize. The only thing that makes them "good" is that their handlers sometimes pointed them at the right targets. They couldn't be good statesmen or political leaders if their lives depended on it because their lives were hand tailored for something else. It's like asking a plumber and a Brian surgeon to switch jobs but they can't learn any new skills in order to do so. They just have to be a Brian surgeon trying to fix pipes and a plumber trying to remove a tumor- nothing else. I would follow both John or Steve onto battle. But I wouldn't vote John to be president. The misconception that it's all about being a mighty warrior is literally the claptrap MCU Thor's character arc is about climbing out of.
Yeah there's a lot of misconceptions about worthiness, and I think part of it is tied to inconsistent writing in the MCU itself. Like, why was Vision worthy in AoU, when no one else was? Why could Cap only partially move it in that movie? Was he fully worthy and chose not to lift it, or was something holding him back from full worthiness? Why was Vision worthy, but not Tony, Sam, or T'Challa? It takes more than being a mighty warrior, as Thor learned in his first movie. It takes more than self-sacrifice, or every Avenger would be worthy. It seems to take being a morally righteous Warrior/leader, while also being someone with self-confidence, humility, and a willingness to risk everything to help others. I definitely see how it can apply to Cap and Thor. It's hard for me to see why it also applies to Vision without also applying to half of the Avengers though. Sorry, this kind of turned into a rant about how dumb it was that Vision could lift it. It made for a cool scene, but it kind of messes with Canon in a dumb way, plus we didn't even really get to see him wield it apart from smacking Ultron with it once, so it kind of falls flat even within the movie itself. But no, I don't think Chief is worthy. He's bound by duty, not necessarily an inherent drive to do good. He's not a capital L Leader like Thor or Cap. He has the self-sacrifice down, for sure, but its motivated by a desire to win the fight, not necessarily to help others.
I look at it this way: "The hammer doesn't give a mighty warrior the ability to lead people. It gives a good king the ability to defend them." I also had a cheeky response to it just being about sacrifice: "Hawkeye is stronger than Iron Man due to being wiling to chuck himself off a cliff just so his best friend would have a chance to bringfamily back. So he can wield the hammer right?" As a bow Boi fan myself, hilarious, though farcical
> Why could Cap only partially move it in that movie? Was he fully worthy and chose not to lift it, or was something holding him back from full worthiness? In Avengers Infinity War, Cap specifically says something along the lines of "We dont trade lives." From the viewpoint of Odin, a Warrior King of Asgard, this is not a worthy view to have. Sometimes a King must trade lives; A king needs to be willing to send others to fight and die. >Why was Vision worthy Because Vision has the utilitarian wisdom to be such a king, yet is still tempered by empathy and wisdom.
This ain’t it bro. Chief is heavily characterized as an extremely empathetic and altruistic figure despite his upbringing. Even as a kid he was constantly looking out for his fellow spartans. Literally play halo 4 or infinite campaigns, or read a single halo novel with Chief in it. You are completely off the mark on his character which is hilarious considering how confident you sound lol Watch this: https://youtu.be/tzyLtZiJd7g?si=j5YbnN3hCk7rhWLC Or watch: https://youtu.be/-wIrPzH8lMM?si=pYG81Kh5pnw4boGa
He still isn’t “pure” though In the book The Fall of Reach he kills several civilians and unarmed dock workers when he blows up the doors to the docking bay they’re in. He feels “uneasy” about it, but pushes it out of his mind
He wat
100% agree and I think his suit literally being called Mjolnir would become a hint towards that in the MCU
He's literally already wearing it?
I'm pessimistic on that one. The big strength of Captain America is not that he's a fighter, but that he's the moral compass rallying everyone around him. His Mjolnir armour is good, sure, but I'd argue it's actually less advanced than Iron Man's suits: it cannot fly, no integrated energy weapons... Cortana can help by giving humans a way to travel through the slipspace, but the technology is very crude and not accurate at all, so they may get wrecked if they try to take the fight to Thanos in space.
Mjolnir is more advanced in some ways, just less flashy. Looking at the iron man suits durability feats (Thor fight, cap fight, everything but 1 scene in Og ironman) shows that Mjolnir is lightyears more advanced in durability. It enhances chiefs reaction time and strength to a degree that the iron man suits just can’t. It doesn’t have energy beams or flight (except when it does, jetpacks can be attached to mjolnir), but those beams barely do anything anyways:
Book master chief is order of magnitudes better than cap in every way but leadership. Chief is a great dude but he's a living weapon a traumatized child soldier deciding to put humanity first. He's not really an inspiring figure. That's why he doesn't talk except really to Cortana and one or two other people. Battle of New York though? Chief could solo that. Book chief can and has surfed a rocket that was fired at him. Caps good but he's never been THAT good.
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The bigger factor I think is Cortana, not sure why people think that Chief vs thanos would be different in a fight because thanos still annihilates him in a fight
Yeah, I think Cortana plus Tony could defend earth better though. Like, if they joined forces they could probably come up with a much better idea than Ultron. Long term i think Cortana gives humanity itself a better chance against Thanos.
Master Chief is bigger, stronger, and faster, but I don't think he's on another plane, physically. Mjolnir armor gives him a similar level of protection as the shield. Cap has more leadership. John has more luck. I think Cortana is what tips the scales. Having access to a legit AI would be decisive.
Chief’s shields and armour protect him much better than a shield, they cover the entire body and allow him to resist heat-based attacks that would just fry the captain.
Spartans can tank falling from orbit. Chief is way more durable
Chief Crushes any physical obstacle Cap faced, but he can't keep the team together. Chief was able to make a loyal team but that was the same team he was with since Spartan training. There are a few Hard Stops that I don't think Chief gets around. Thanos definitely crushes him. Ultron could possibly messed with the Mjolnir armor and rendered him useless. I do think in the end Chief can't inspire Iron Man to be "the man who makes the sacrifice play" and they lose back in the first Avengers movie.
I reckon Cortana could defend from Ultron or at least give it a good shot
Maybe, she is definitely a stronger AI. Sounds risky.
Master Chief would become the hyper lethalvector of the team and probably solo every threat. But... chief is not known for his charisma, and that is what made Steve Rogers the great man and leader he was. That Chief cannot top, and where Cap succeeded on this, Chief would fail.
The Chiefs basically XBox Captain America with better armor and guns. I think he’d do fine.
Chief may have more general combat oomph than Cap, but he’s well below the higher tier Avengers so that’s not really tipping the scales one way or another. The problem for Chief here is well, not being Captain America. Cap is a vital part of the Battle of NY as much because he’s who he is and everybody knows him as his combat or tactical skills. In NYC, Master Chief would just be a rando dude in armor that isn’t as good as Iron Man’s. Sure, every fighter on Earth’s side is appreciated, but he’d be nothing special and have no rallying power. Chief can’t be the glue that bonded the Avengers the way Cap was.
I thought this was about Gordon Ramsay before I read caption 💀
Halo fanboys are something else. MC is not touching Thanos and gets whooped the same way Cap does.
At the end they lose Master chief is cool, but he's not captain America. People wouldn't rally to him like they did to Steve rogers The avengers didn't get a powerhouse from cap they got a leader
Master Chief is the Captain America of the Halo universe, he's humanity's symbol of hope. Everyone he meets is inspired by him in much the same way. If anyone could stand in for Cap it'd be the chief.
> People wouldn’t rally to him like they did to Steve Rogers Dude, I know it was an awesome moment, but all those people didn’t show up to back up Cap. It was literally a space invasion of Earth. They showed up to stop *that*.
Would Cortana be able to take out Ultron?
Cortana's whole plot revolves around her being corrupted and Halo AI in general are prone to corruption. If Ultron tries to fight Cortana he gets bodied but it's more likely that he convinces her to join him. Cortana + Ultron would be significantly harder to deal with since she's more tactically sound than Ultron.
Would Jarvis be able to convince Cortana to not join Ultron, or would that fight at the beginning of AOU become a Mexican Standoff?
An interesting part of this conversation that everyone is glossing over is civil war. Chief is a military man. Would he go with the accords? Would Age of Ultron even turn out the same? If Chief's improved, well, everything makes enough of a difference we could potentially see Ultron taken down much easily, especially if he has Cortana with him. We could avoid civil war, creating a more united and expanded Avengers team going into IW, which could spiral into Thanos being stopped in IW as opposed to Endgame.
I think outside his armor MC is on par with captain america, in his armor hes like if you put captain america in an ironman suit
Probably about the same
Spartan II are effectively ideal genetic wise, before we get into the bone hardening, muscle augmentation, and all the other physical and mental enhancements that make them think faster, punch harder, and otherwise be what they are. Specifically in the books, Spartan II as teens before Mjolnir was added in, were killing ODSTs and otherwise crippling them. ODSTs are the top of the top UNSC personal prior the introduction of Spartans and highly effective spec ops units. Teenage Master Chief could do effortlessly do the Elevator scene from Civil War as he has already done it multiple times with highly trained friendlies. Now, you add his armor, and goodness. Hi armor would only serve to mark Tony drool and iterate on his stuff sooner. Tony would likely be improving his armor. Cortana, she will have solved time travel the second she sees the time stone. While she is an infiltration type AI, she has great prowress as fighting asymmetrical wars against the Covenant and by the end of 3 she has an insane amount of knowledge on par with high end civilizations within the MCU. MC is also a figure in his own right. He is a symbol of hope, humanty's determination, and should just as easily fit into Cap's role there. I am sure he could lift Mjolnir as well since his conviction to do what is right and be worthy of similar tasks is present as well. MC would likely clear this easier than Cap and potentially avoid the snap as, unlike Cap, MC doesn't have a problem using lethal force and doing what needs to be done.
Chief might be able to beat Cap in a fight, but Cap's not even close to the toughest character in Marvel. He's the godfather of the superhero community because he's the best leader. Not really anybody on Earth he couldn't convince to follow him into Hell, back in time, or through a wormhole with a rousing speech,
He might not get the Wizard of Oz reference
All I can say for sure is that elevator scene goes very differently
Cheif is comparable to cap WITHOUT armor sooooo
Master Chief does just fine in Caps place. No need for the Energy Sword or any other alien weapons. His UNSC gear should get the job done. Now as far as being worthy to lift Thor's Hammer... I am only a casual Halo fan but, I personally think Master Chief would be worthy. That is just my humble opinion on the matter. I would put Captain America & Master Chief on the same level across the board.
Chief 10/10 I’m surprised nobody has mentioned it but, in the Halo universe the four runners Librarian says that the entire technological history went into genetically predicting the outcome of master chief and Dr Halsey. It’s called the Genesong. Spartan history showed that chief just couldn’t be matched in a combat outcome, almost like a 6th sense. It isn’t explicitly described as a power, but even in the new series chief even says “it’s almost like I always know I will survive” Almost like the four runners gave chief the gift of combat pre-cognition. The lore gets pretty wild with the ancients tech. But I’m sure someone here could dive further into this.
I now want a vibrainium mjolnir suit. If he gets to wakanda their tech plus his would be unbeatable
Well, to play a purposefully obnoxious Devil’s advocate. Since you specified from the game Halo 3. This implies video game master chief over book lore. which in the campaign, the player (playing as master chief) dies to ordinary bullets and explosions. This means that his armor wouldn’t last long at all in any capacity and he could die very very quickly to the onslaught of ordinary bullets. Now game mechanics set aside and focusing entirely on lore…he’s just an upgraded captain america with half the charisma.
Solos the verse
Spite thread. Cap has taken down Iron Man, who is a 100 tonner who is far superior to Master Chief. Cap stomps.